From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:42:52 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uGa/DOI0nXC2IOd2VM7kZO72rX/8G4ElRjwSh4d96WhluzHz/WABoe1JE0BU4mRnLtT/MhWk4+CcAU01oSHPRxmRixLuFlwSNcwx8+IZpgxRoCocx/YgWN5Pys7+Jst3xlNmDuzqHCNcv+sSZE8FZPk58HSpn90e1IRZ/kqoYkU= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The Bike Shipping Thread To: Skip , Mike Moore Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX i used a company called forwardair. they were great. online scheduling, reasonable rates, etc. --- Skip wrote: > Mike Moore wrote: > > > > Hey all, > > > > I know this comes up from time to time, but I wanted > > to see what the current consensus on shipping your > > bike. > > > > A friend just moved here from MS, and needs to get his > > bike shipped up. He is, of course, looking for the > > most economic way to ship the bike but also wants to > > make sure the bike arrives in the same condition it > > departed in. > > > > Mike > > Greyhound. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:45:43 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=SVAHpsdllP7W3QZ0gpP4dbMYT88dsQv54kwCd1OhxeLvShFyy1YIX7RYeviyB8pYJrSVc9j3xdlX631GKZ8H0tvUzXXJqObL2XAqH5GGuIrbeIPL4YWbWqQ3riOg0aaJRkrvG2ZCJYRWZpc3ulfjLsCj4vrfcP759AyAX0Fg+34= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:33:45 -0500, Michael Jordan > wrote: > > > Before someone (probably one of my kids) throws > something at me - the > > Norton is a parallel twin, not a V-twin. > > I started to say something, but then realized that > perhaps I shouldn't > do so, should I want to be allowed to put my motorcycle > in your garage > when I move back to Va . . . > > :) you been thrown out of school yet? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:48:45 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vwE4pOwNjzvMcXnzRy8+PpctBLYV1OEEHm0SZ3fJnPqvYU91ZCZ9yEgiSkMkDvogeIiMem5BJ5UB8JwG2q0e3A2vpJQzAcz/22wF8MBvi4y8VDukGAFaBHxZEqUPrwUhUgcG6tNoADg+fVUzr+a3nN6k/kteqOCEfYxsbyy+LJg= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:48:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Perry Coleman wrote: > On the other hand, there are dealerships in the area that > I won't step foot > in. I'd drive long distances before I would ever go back. > Gettysburg H-D is > probably going to end up as one of those. Assuming I ever > decide to buy a > Harley. Criswell did have a 2005 Concours in the > showroom... ;^) are you sure it wasn't a leftover 1986? ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:51:41 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=EM9BIYlxfdX8YCKThfjYmwT250v7QjOnhWE8yh7Ak5MF4df6GvCoGhKTxPVYsB5RFcXzkA+ix+8yfX4ZPWfg1rq5vmsliPw1Ese9colOlWznm2xYKGTDndYBp2sQ96mwxWVib7QTNcZ8gsSAP1sisVoAPiFpzQXFSKad8erNKk0= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:51:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The Bike Shipping Thread To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: barkdog600rr@XXXXXX one additional note.... forwardair does NOT strap the bike down. they leave all the work to the human who is shipping it... so be sure that the idiot on the other end knows how to properly strap down the machine. --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Mike Moore wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with a company called > > Forward Air http://www.forwardair.com/ it was > > suggested to me on another board. > > I had a bike shipped from Oregon to Dulles Airport by > Forward Air -- they're > about as cheap as you can get, and they have freight > terminals at just about > every major airport. They basically strap the bike into a > crude slatted crate > atop a skid. Not the most impressive packing, but it > worked. > > The bike I shipped arrived just fine, at about $375 > cross-country for a 375 pound > bike. > > I haven't heard any FA disaster stories anywhere. > > -- Larry > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 09:31:32 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vbEYQnpwXhQeN6LFmRX769t9wpQWkXMOtyI0Jrx1DUfdf+rla2Ss87wvRy/A3hNLZ6DXt/AV1Ip/eIxcIFG0DltxtBgeV2MfonD4LKBaSZa7SpzHNVMFkNCR8tn5jhvtc6ULAFiRNJJ/iDJq9uksLZG/2vMFwFrJjARwhzEHvAk= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:31:22 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Motoboys of Brazil To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's a link to an interesting article in the NYTimes about motorcycle delivery guys in Brazil. (It requires a free registration.) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/international/americas/30brazil.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 09:55:26 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:53:55 -0500 Tom, Nah. '86's are "silverdammit". This one is "goldIthink". ;^) Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:48:35 -0800 (PST) > >--- Perry Coleman wrote: > > > > On the other hand, there are dealerships in the area that > > I won't step foot > > in. I'd drive long distances before I would ever go back. > > Gettysburg H-D is > > probably going to end up as one of those. Assuming I ever > > decide to buy a > > Harley. Criswell did have a 2005 Concours in the > > showroom... ;^) > >are you sure it wasn't a leftover 1986? ;) > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? >http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:25:40 2004 Subject: : Paging Julian... Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:25:37 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: I had really hoped to be posting some pics of Deal's Gap for you all but my trip got postponed because I had to bartend. Got my bike back Friday. I really, really missed it. The only damage I had repaired was the front right turn signal and the front fairing. I was told that a steering clamp (?)was loose. For those interested: - new Sporttec M1 tires - new front wheel - new front brake calipers - 16,000 mile service done at 18,000 (oil changes done on time) - replaced turn signal - swapped out front fairing (I had an extra) Cost to me was $1200.00 parts and $702 labor. That is a huge chunk of change but thanks to a rainy day lesson from a friend I have been building myself a hedge for the first time in life...so while my hedge has disappeared I was able to cover this. The tires, brakes and service make a huge difference. I have been riding like a fiend and can't say enough good things about the SportTec tires. I am cornering faster and smarter than I ever was before. I won't outride my sight\stopping distance again. Thanks for all the advice and heads-up about parts online (Rob). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:31:24 2004 Subject: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. Well, the problem is still there. The sound is like rice crispies in milk. Tends to happen at speeds from 10mph to 45mph. Maybe the noise can no longer be heard at speed. It happens mainly during acceleration but I cannot reproduce the noise if the bike is still and I am revving the engine. The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:42:33 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:42:19 -0500 If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. Well, the problem is still there. The sound is like rice crispies in milk. Tends to happen at speeds from 10mph to 45mph. Maybe the noise can no longer be heard at speed. It happens mainly during acceleration but I cannot reproduce the noise if the bike is still and I am revving the engine. The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 11:24:21 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:24:25 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise At 10:31 AM 12/1/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does >not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. >If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise >sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the >fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? If it sounds like sparks, maybe it is? Check wiring for insulation problems or loose connections...you did have your front end apart recently as well as a drop of the bike. Is everything (lights, horn, engine, etc.) working properly? If so, then it probably isn't wiring, but anything is possible. Maybe a wire is just not secured well and is waving in the breeze and hitting your frame, forks or fairing? If the tech thought it was the chain, maybe it is? Given your recent ditch diving expedition, maybe something near the chain got bent and is hitting the chain as it bounces a bit? The sound could be reflecting off of your fairing or the road and appear to be coming from someplace it isn't really. Check the area around the chain for proper clearance from everything. (BTW, overtightening the chain isn't a good idea, or so I've heard. It accelerates wear rates on both the chain and the sprocket and can cause other problems. To spec is usually best.) Other than that, no guesses here... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 11:38:44 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=W2xz+efCwIxau8XukMVOicWhtgJnmkSxqXkx8QtJUi0+JWQ4ZyF9WeqsEU7gyPICUwX6JC03hRmDItDigHeCnSifxc82Wjm5DJO22jbx2uZC+ICNNtw3qYAwRyWXNTthlk3K9z0V6Y9Fhz2OJx5HtTPSHknDM052eIkOnRPNHB0= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:38:37 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sounds to me like a dry, too tight drive chain. Sure, you gain a little more responsiveness with less drive-train slop, at the cost of accelerated chain and sprocket wear. And if it's really tight, you can ruin a countershaft seal. I always adjust my chains at the upper end of the manufacturer's recommendations. Pace Horkster. :) Sounds like the shop over-tightened your chain when they R/Red the rear tire. For reasons that I find hard to fathom, shops tend to do that. As for the other noises, you've got new front calipers and pads, right? Could be the pads are just rattling a bit until they're nicely bedded in. Chain is 35mm, not point 35 mm, right? In Fred Flintstone units that's about an inch'n'three-eights. Also, pay attention to the Owner's Manual on how that's supposed to be measured. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > > Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike > back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear > what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to > the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they > tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory > recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding > my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. ... -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 12:41:36 2004 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:41:01 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: Paul Wilson Cc: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Could be a seized link in the chain, or one about to go... If you only experience it while moving, it's not the motor... ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:38:37 -0500 >From: Paul Wilson >Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise >To: Julian Halton >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Sounds to me like a dry, too tight drive chain. Sure, you gain a >little more responsiveness with less drive-train slop, at the cost of >accelerated chain and sprocket wear. And if it's really tight, you >can ruin a countershaft seal. > >I always adjust my chains at the upper end of the manufacturer's >recommendations. Pace Horkster. :) Sounds like the shop >over-tightened your chain when they R/Red the rear tire. For reasons >that I find hard to fathom, shops tend to do that. As for the other >noises, you've got new front calipers and pads, right? Could be the >pads are just rattling a bit until they're nicely bedded in. > >Chain is 35mm, not point 35 mm, right? In Fred Flintstone units >that's about an inch'n'three-eights. Also, pay attention to the >Owner's Manual on how that's supposed to be measured. > > >On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: >> >> >> Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike >> back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear >> what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to >> the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they >> tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory >> recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding >> my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. ... >-- >Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >95 VFR - 90 KLR > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 13:01:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=IoigVw74YRscTxU5zoo+kSsyiL3amY2XgZLJuLHLcEQo8v2BV8OCErIuoLNf+ktu+x+Mg/kUvFn7A9CUUbprNztntx18G5Bg18SHQ1qP8F0qE5uaFzoM3gboyaynJxKFOWOO1PUWWZydp6w0r/1oqH2TxUdV+aqqxFXSBw0bGSw= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:01:37 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote: > you been thrown out of school yet? I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording industry is not my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major TBD). Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC area, though . . . not too much to do out here. -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:24:40 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: circles X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.015, required 6, AWL -2.02) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:37:07 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:36:43 EST Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:58:21 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:58:19 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:06:51 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=t/d+e5fLADts0nHsSLqVNKgScXRdld4s1y9XUQ6ox3WW456JS/VTEG0EDbGOmwYEW9G32T2xwnU0qVyVf5B4PNRrdh2TS/4LoRZGk9/nogzAtpp0k1XAISSVwaHDTSWX8q5aG0svWOUrjAl9tNXqQqzJykOxlF8JqDsUsqBWfg8= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:06:43 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Skip , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: circles Leon Begeman On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500, Skip wrote: > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > --skip > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:15:07 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , , Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:14:36 -0500 I don't know where your CCT is, but that is where mine is. Front, mid part of the engine. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:21:20 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:21:16 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems > to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. > I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this > summer on my '00 R6. > It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, > no noise. > Had the CCT replaced and all is well. I agree... Cam Chain Tensioner. If I recall, it's on the throttle side of the bike (cylinder 1?) and the actual "adjuster" is about halfway up the engine casing. Out of adjustment or not, it can cause noises in any part of the entire assembly. My FZ1 and my YZF both developed this noise around 7000 miles. I had the YZF into the shop for it and the mechanic (a friend) basically ripped the engine apart to check everything and found that it was indeed the cam chain causing the ticking. A new adjuster fixed it, but it came back a couple thousand miles later. We let it go for another few thousand and ripped the engine apart again to check all the specs and the tolerances. There was no noticeable wear marks or anything else that indicated that the tick was causing a problem. Essentially, we left it alone after that and never had any problems. My FZ1 is the same now and I know several other R1 & FZ1 owners with the same noise. None have any problems with it that we are aware of. The basic consensus seems to be "don't F' with it!". It's REAL easy to screw up majorly if you don't have it set right and it takes far more experience and tools than I have to do so... Let me put it this way: I'd rip into a set of carbs without too much concern if I had to, but I ain't about to touch a Yamaha CC adjuster! Leaving it alone at worst will cause you to replace a little spring in the tensioner if you ever get up to about 25000 miles (which they do anyway with the scheduled valve adjustment at 25k on Yamahas). Symptoms seemed the same as yours... Sounded like it was coming from the steering head or the valves at the top of the engine. Couldn't be reproduced reliably unless at speed (and even then it seemed to be very temperature dependent). My YZF had the noise around 4000 rpm and my FZ1 has it from 2500-5000 RPM. Irritating as all hell for the first week... Then you get used to it. :) --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:33:05 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:33:01 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I don't know where your CCT is, but that is where mine is. > Front, mid part of the engine. Most Yamahas should have it on the back of the engine case... A picture from an FZ1 (mine) is here: http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26373 If you want to verify it, take off the throttle side fairing and go for a spin around the block. It will probably be two or three times as loud. -- smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:42:02 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:42:00 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , It will take some getting used to if it is in fact the cct. Thanks for the great information. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:42:21 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:41:16 -0500 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: circles X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.009, required 6, AWL -2.01) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX thanks! --skip Paul Wilson wrote: > > Leon Begeman > > On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500, Skip wrote: > > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > > > --skip > > > > > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:07:51 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hnMPEWytoMl6sWUVSLqJBu7H05YnZTAzdl183gP8iXvnlLwT9K/c1pJap0DsKz1A5PoCnVcnYnsiyuKa8nukIn4jwhn4oRUXR9chI7FHHe2L9pvQubUuwYUyMPqAmzG+C3BEfU3APIHfcAKC7dNbwhviAfw03A0th3VeNxWlMY4= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer > wrote: > > you been thrown out of school yet? > > I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording > industry is not > my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major > TBD). ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four majors before it was all said and done. > Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC > area, though . . > . not too much to do out here. aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? ptooey. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:08:30 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mrB9eWagMEnB5UAPK+DTk8GZtDbbTqRcFKXxEXLpc2Z875u/xA+IccAWivEHw/XuW6fjENINIFfUchjrIErPbfe2+UmqSQXgxYC3bDQoAdQ/p6I/6TVrFHw1KeLztkIEe00XNesu+GSV+BPgyg6f2SI4KpAg5yusSn1gcRHi+kI= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:08:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: Julian Halton , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX pretty sure that's where the cct would be.... --- Julian Halton wrote: > I will look into this but I cannot get over that this > seems to come from > the front upper part of my motorcycle. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:37 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange > Noise > > I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this > summer on my > '00 R6. > It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At > speed, no noise. > Had the CCT replaced and all is well. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard > Time, > jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner > (CCT). Not sure > if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still > could be that > though. > > -Jim > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:08:32 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=cxknOFNRWDsocDKnR4gfGXoJAx5Ofr9eUH7ch2vzYf7pLpm+1US8c2DBNQxnWqnwZDHXMiODnXWoly0OfMIn0APiNyJVrJYqEAZqJrAV3O53EAdNR+6WmztJ6CI6YaR1LLp4uerMYI9jbhO2naNuKjhMCfHQnDwwZ56QX2dT+rk= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: circles To: Skip , DC Cycles That would be me. Haven't done them in a while, probably won't now until spring. What can I help you with? Leon --- Skip wrote: > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > --skip > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:10:51 2004 Subject: The winds of change Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:10:46 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Be careful riding today. I took a turn into the wind and had to put my foot down to keep from going over. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:16:29 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=FJMueXsLjIm6dOamkHnfBKDPKz93oHm3m+FXthNpJukHIK7bibhQyYpn6BA3Ip6+uoKyNm6h9ZBLDIOWQ0Py+/RkUNkJ2mgjPCKfHOHAlghXWTMa7VUDBjxwfSVAick0uhzE5vgamcLRCGNa2RAFGAyy7V7yo9698d2sbUXdamM= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:16:23 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote: > aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? > ptooey. Only a paltry 300 miles away, but did get to ride the Gap once this year - at night, in a driving rain, at 20 mph . . . -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:23:14 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:22:34 -0500 I can relate. I started out in PolySci. I thought I was going to do the Pre-Law thing. I actually was going to be a lawyer and maybe get into politics. What a wanker I was... ;^) Then I took a CompSci class and that was all she wrote. Of course, back then the school I was at didn't even have a major in CompSci. I had to go through a couple of others until I found something that would work. I did end up with a Minor+ in CompSci and an almost Minor in 2 other disciplines, though. Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST) > >--- Sean Jordan wrote: > > > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer > > wrote: > > > you been thrown out of school yet? > > > > I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording > > industry is not > > my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major > > TBD). > >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four >majors before it was all said and done. > > > > Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC > > area, though . . > > . not too much to do out here. > >aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? >ptooey. > >-- >tg > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 17:25:17 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:24:31 EST Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX That is exactly where mine seemed to be coming from. I could hear it coming right up through the middle. The fairings cause it to sound louder and echo. It very hard to tell exactly where noises are coming from. I actually took a mini tape recorder and recorded the sound to play back for the mechanics. Soon as they heard it they knew what the problem was. :-) Good luck. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 2:58:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 07:05:52 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=SkXQpJkKr/gYaUerRzTESJoDubaqKFrcwLwN0yqbbNjRuJZRUwJUyfdYq8IbiFK5ujF3XvfTZnb6STfHJ2s1NeMQ0cwkzouGRD9K2BKzmBMZ33736VH2/hNFwwg31TNlKazEf8uoH2jb8+x36LkCBlODc2FpC2I1bh2rrv+bfDw= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 04:05:33 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) Glenn --- Tom Gimer wrote: > pretty sure that's where the cct would be.... > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > I will look into this but I cannot get over that > this > > seems to come from > > the front upper part of my motorcycle. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:06:00 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:05:48 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX gimer bragged: >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four >majors before it was all said and done. [Dave] You mean 4 majorettes? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:16:06 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2Gbw+OBcdjLchuXuzVoP5umDm+6AQtKjKqb7KhvKSgVZK4cErHPggmz0haqG2uGPMR7XtSVk35JDbEmI3C3bUh56MMKDvQP5VBhHrYhmKPcyQEfg/RF3BF86xbqCSn14ykuPy5ker6N4hu1h/lWIo6aY48ssrWPIw5y3X9UqwTI= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: We knew this would happen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2004/janklowdamages.asp __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:32:59 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:32:54 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: We knew this would happen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What a slimy piece of shit (Janklow is). Quote: "Janklow is protected under the Federal Tort Claims Act, which shields federal workers from negligence claims for actions that happen while they are working." No time like the present to have this stricken. ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) >From: Glenn Dysart >Subject: We knew this would happen >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2004/janklowdamages.asp > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! >http://my.yahoo.com > > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:45:02 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:45:00 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) > > Glenn If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder casing for the VFR... Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet they're there (if not, I'm clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). :P --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:05:14 2004 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >>I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) >> >>Glenn >> >> > >If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder casing for the VFR... >Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet they're there (if not, I'm >clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). :P > >--smthng > > That was a funny, atleast for older VFR's (love them gears - nice noises). The new ones have chains on the top. I know CCT's pretty well, they were a problem/mystery on VTR's (SuperHawk 996). The thought is if you hear it, and it gets louder and louder its bad, get a new one - quick! Others had many miles on their VTR's (50k+, one 100k+) who never had issues - lots of noise but no engine/CCT failures. I have heard of other bikes with CCT issues, older Suk 1000 comes to mind, and a new (less than 500 miles) CBR1000rr CCT failure. But they weren't as wide spead of an issue. It seemed no matter what version of CCT a SHawker got it would eventually make noise. That said, APE makes a manual CCT ( must be adjusted every 10k) for most bikes. APE says they are generally for racing as the "automatic" CCT's don't hold up well under many high rev races. Many SHawkers went with the APE's, and were happy ( less noise ). Others just replaced OEM. Either way there were very few engine failures - though probaby too many for a Honda. (by very few, i mean only 1 lister over 3/4 years claimed a failure). My $0.02, IMHO - get a OEM and a service manual and RIDE ON. Good luck, Tom de '03 ST1300 - previous owner of VTR, and VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:05:25 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=jXVhqJThcy1420e1O1b5/voxDatsxj8f/ljmSF0qnJaMAf739jZKbtuSIbCoBfIFC9jHpUo3c1lQMiEPBYKffGF21kHAbXD1ps7uPnoNb/+t9Xpcw59msoCL5XvVTfL5Yy3aIFQXlfydmYzfIhNAHON7HVHn/bvGpGhGtY804gY= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Seeing how most (excpet the new weird one) have gear driven cams I would guess you would be mistaken. Why would you need a CCT when there is no chain? Glenn --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > > If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder > casing for the VFR... > Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet > they're there (if not, I'm > clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:11:09 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=D9w3plj4OK6mTPuHKDGVSSlyoSy3gI7iYHzEJ/ZfZnVVPuciBrkHNJot4N7nke8Bw7ExE7ZtCIO+bsIWTNFmZO+epp7wuPOXGExyu/kcw+zOADtUPih6SLciiR75NG5z6PpM2kqHfhWkOaRZ4bEFygjTUSgJPLOVd2SBhBrRAZE= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep, Suzsucky has had their problems too. I have a DRZ400 and Suzuki has been through three different designs and they still may not be working correctly. I've swapped out my Auto CCT for a manual one. Apearently Busa's have the same problem. Glenn --- "De Boeser, Tom" wrote: The new ones have chains on the top. I > know CCT's pretty > well, they were a problem/mystery on VTR's > (SuperHawk 996). The thought > is if you hear it, and it gets louder and louder its > bad, get a new one > - quick! Others had many miles on their VTR's > (50k+, one 100k+) who > never had issues - lots of noise but no engine/CCT > failures. I have > heard of other bikes with CCT issues, older Suk 1000 > comes to mind, and > a new (less than 500 miles) CBR1000rr CCT failure. > But they weren't as > wide spead of an issue. > It seemed no matter what version of CCT a SHawker > got it would > eventually make noise. That said, APE makes a > manual CCT ( must be > adjusted every 10k) for most bikes. APE says they > are generally for > racing as the "automatic" CCT's don't hold up well > under many high rev > races. Many SHawkers went with the APE's, and were > happy ( less noise > ). Others just replaced OEM. Either way there were > very few engine > failures - though probaby too many for a Honda. (by > very few, i mean > only 1 lister over 3/4 years claimed a failure). > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:19:56 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=LVt2v6Oy+3lwvQ+gZ6U7DtpPI3acbcuYcuVL5/XcoYv81nIUuZ3X1EALgLz51kSuEr4T7Geu48IsBztReAdyuR/n72tfKLcRVHGv/NJJoK2uizG2CWoddz5tJy2vHwHKKPAG9FS2nQrPXkAw2y5WXD5gWz9MtoCY9tk7YX612BQ= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:19:49 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Indeed. The VFR's gear drive was gotta be the most stone cold reliable valve train drive on a motorcycle, even if it's a tad heavy. Well, maybe equivalent to push rods. Makes taking the cams off to adjust clearances a snap too. Thank goodness I don't have a CCT on every cylinder. The KLR has two, btw. One for the valves and one for the balancer. Maybe Jonathan can come by and help me synch the carbs on the KLR and then we can change the blinker fluid while we're at it..... ;-) On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:05:22 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart wrote: > Seeing how most (excpet the new weird one) have gear > driven cams I would guess you would be mistaken. Why > would you need a CCT when there is no chain? > > Glenn > > --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > > > > > If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder > > casing for the VFR... > > Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet > > they're there (if not, I'm > > clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:38:26 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Yep, Suzsucky has had their problems too. I have a > DRZ400 and Suzuki has been through three different > designs and they still may not be working correctly. > I've swapped out my Auto CCT for a manual one. > Apearently Busa's have the same problem. Suzuki had a recall on the early (99s) Hayabusa for CCT. Once swapped with the latest/greatest, all is well. Guys who swapped to a manual CCT have nothing but problems on the 1300s. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:42:01 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=xi/3L3rjFWIIVqNF/U2SjR2lONjsAVlp9TX6WRuIisnqxoSAekNiWckglfRHUXe6UdIs8FJMGBqfVhOqlzPELdRqkssnPQVkaxWF1/tx+iIFnf4Ojs6PalyFEfEN6KKB+Oenekfo5yFMulnQOE2k0lzARl9xtfB7l69IeFUivZs= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > gimer bragged: > >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had > four > >majors before it was all said and done. > > [Dave] You mean 4 majorettes? i preferred cheerleaders because they put out more. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 10:07:34 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Pn9eAAq+eef9+43lkCvYZKRKW6mvohrsH4+0ZjIOqvuZb9jXJfrVsP86FDLcssFNhJjIf9ZoFACJLmW0r85j+YfNTns2pcSN4PhbuSMvYrXgazbM2OCs/6fVbSYy1r2sKUet2vR0HLXFtnq+8ZTcDb8dkDJ/Oc6aoq4sgz6ksJE= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 07:07:27 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Interesting, completely opposite of what people are experiencing on the DRZ's. One of the first mods recommended for 03 and below DRZ's is a Manual CCT. Glenn --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > Suzuki had a recall on the early (99s) Hayabusa for > CCT. Once swapped > with the latest/greatest, all is well. Guys who > swapped to a manual CCT > have nothing but problems on the 1300s. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 22:30:02 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:29:44 -0500 Subject: CCT From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net I really enjoy it when you folks get to bragging about all this high tech stuff and get into a thread like this one. My low tech machine just crossed the 100k mile threshold and I haven't needed to adjust the valves for about 40k miles. I check 'em about every 10k or so. Lash seems to have have stabilized at about 30k and have only needed a couple very slight tweeks since. Even when they do need an adjustment the job takes about 15 min. and one beer. And I'm still on the original valve cover gaskets. I'd rather ride 'em than fix 'em. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 01:50:46 2004 From: Daniel To: "Julian Halton" Cc: Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise R6 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:50:26 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- I would guess the cam chain as well...but i have a couple of good old fashion diagnostic techniques to check. If you can, turn the bike off and have a friend roll it in nuetral. See if you can duplicate the noise sans engine. This will also give you more of an "outside looking in" perspective. So you can get closer to the suspected areas, and free you up to investigate. You would investigate your bike more thoroughly than a non riding friend would, most likely. As suggested, I would check the chain, and front brake pads for the noise, and also in the wheels since they rotate.. Another thing to try, with the engine running, is to take a hose place one end to your ear, and the other end ot the cam chain area and see if you hear the sound amplified. basicly use the hose as a stethescope, or use an actual automotive stethescope. I once had a front rotor bolt come loose, heard the clicking noise, rolled the bike with the engine off, found it. Keep in mind we are trusting our lives to the bikes we ride, it's very important that you have that noise identified positively. You really don't want a bad link in your chain. If a chain brakes it could lock up the rear wheel and high side you into on coming traffic with a very high probability of death for oneself, and accidents and injuries to others. I've had it happen at load speed, (not the on coming traffic part) and it was not pleasant. So only "get used to it" after it's been properly assessed as something non risky. Identify the noise, your health depends on it. After trying to diagnose it yourself, Whatever it costs to positively identify is worth it.. It's always better to spend some money than it is to potentially subject yourself to pain. And one more note, It's also a good idea to find an owners forum like an r6 message board in your case, post the question there, and look up other posts with the same problem and see the solutions. good luck! Hope you can find it quick/easy/soon yourself. :) - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 08:11:59 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=JB3rFyHRQtIsVkfO0KXlbUXkUKXeGsJPwV3kk3UGyAAO/jc8cLJAs+CUaPfVntys6TaZHA4Q9uxCkIWcvWXcX5irKu+y/8kMdcgurk/jlej0GLh83/Ztv4hBM8pHP00GYROr1A503GN/087Dd7/bUVBD7S+xPtjfsJ2GuWM1EW8= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 05:11:54 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Great shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX BTW, this thing is 29 pages deep and rather funny. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673824&page=1&pp=25 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 09:11:18 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:11:06 EST Subject: Re: Great shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ROTFLMAO I could only make it to the 4th page before I had to stop. I was starting to laugh too hard and gathering looks from passing co-workers. Will have to pick this up at home later this evening. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 8:12:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, glenn_dysart@XXXXXX writes: BTW, this thing is 29 pages deep and rather funny. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673824&page=1&pp=25 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 10:58:24 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Great shots Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:57:11 -0500 I haven't gone through the whole thing, but I did wonder about trying to get a Russell custom seat for her. Can you imagine the look on their face when the order came in? ;^) Perry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:27:03 2004 Subject: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:27:01 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? I told them I would hold off and think about it. As I am looking at my bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old tire. Leaking tire, hole was too big to patch..must of got this last night. Cost to me 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a reminder. If I had to guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge at night and I probably picked up my present there. The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on bike...it is not the cam chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not to worry about it. I am going to do some more research though. ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this hobby! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:33:30 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mUT6F7zDkVmo6hEqX8EjHvrCCLZ1yANSWv4JyTHQys1WvLsd/0xtRP6veinNDMOYJnrLa70KfuTbj+Lpap+c3TwZgFYVU/YGvTMCXLp4Zy48BPSbqFpBPhQ/tc6x+6Tf8iNUA0MfQ1DKeI0tZaphp9SKWwjamX7dFfnesG8/pvA= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:33:24 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You just seem to have some very bad luck. I don't spend near the money you do on BOTH of my bikes. Glenn --- Julian Halton wrote: > Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two > things: the NOISE!!!! > And to get frame sliders put on. > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year > bike require 2'' inch > holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > Questions: Does this > reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the > fairings? > > I told them I would hold off and think about it. As > I am looking at my > bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old > tire. Leaking tire, > hole was too big to patch..must of got this last > night. Cost to me > 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a > reminder. If I had to > guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge at > night and I > probably picked up my present there. > > The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on > bike...it is not the cam > chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not to > worry about it. I > am going to do some more research though. > > ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this > hobby! > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:41:02 2004 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 11:39:32 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise R6 At 01:50 AM 12/3/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >Another thing to try, with the engine running, is to take a hose >place one end to your ear, and the other end ot the cam chain area >and see if you hear the sound amplified. basicly use the hose as a >stethescope, or use an actual automotive stethescope. A large screwdriver works well for this too. Put the handle against your ear, and the blade on whatever part you want to listen too. If the engine is running, and you have long hair, be *really* careful about this!! Particularly on cars (bikes have fewer exposed rotating bits when not in gear). -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:14:20 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kWV9kJlh/AMxWUdhtfkzc24Rb8Ct8MnZhs869wOA7HEjp1gmnb/ED7koKBA9Y/lnUfQTKhP2+9tuqjqaA5hAVAGY4D7iMfnoGauEqHIiRQhZ5QH1YAcRmpwL8ehc+++exPTh07uf3ze1h73nY4WB/o8h31Oo7EzeCZmAZU/Jv70= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:14:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey us city riders have to put up with ALOT (-; Nails, taxi drivers, ice, cops, stupid low speed limits! Do we need to set up a DC-Cycles Julian Bike Fund? --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > You just seem to have some very bad luck. I don't > spend near the money you do on BOTH of my bikes. > > Glenn > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two > > things: the NOISE!!!! > > And to get frame sliders put on. > > > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year > > bike require 2'' inch > > holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > > Questions: Does this > > reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the > > fairings? > > > > I told them I would hold off and think about it. > As > > I am looking at my > > bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old > > tire. Leaking tire, > > hole was too big to patch..must of got this last > > night. Cost to me > > 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a > > reminder. If I had to > > guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge > at > > night and I > > probably picked up my present there. > > > > The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on > > bike...it is not the cam > > chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not > to > > worry about it. I > > am going to do some more research though. > > > > ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this > > hobby! > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. > Learn more. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:38:25 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:38:09 EST Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have a set of Street Frame Sliders from Intuit on my '00 R6. They go in place of existing bolts and don't require any fairing modification. They look like they were original parts to the bike. I can't find their website and not sure if they're still around. Maybe Roach could help you out. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 11:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:47:30 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:47:17 EST Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Found'em. _http://inturace.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page10.html_ (http://inturace.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page10.html) As long as you're not planning to hit the track, I think these will work for you. I've never "road-tested" mine but, I feel better that they're on. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 12:38:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes: I have a set of Street Frame Sliders from Intuit on my '00 R6. They go in place of existing bolts and don't require any fairing modification. They look like they were original parts to the bike. I can't find their website and not sure if they're still around. Maybe Roach could help you out. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 11:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:07:29 2004 Subject: RE: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:07:26 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require > 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it > weaken the fairings? The FJR's have the same issue... There's a $40 set that requires drilling of the fairing and there's a $140 set that doesn't. A LOT of people go for the expensive set. I doubt it would technically lower the resale value (I wouldn't consider that to be "damage"), but *I* wouldn't buy it with a drilled fairing if I had the option not to. --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:15:23 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=l1rJvY8a+03ORR5rSJcnm9Qb4LpKLKKLYTBhqNcLdduQxkpQw1KRVTFdGtXC4yB6q+KH+INSKGJof7WwVnDH13EU5sW4hGThDKAh7Nssyi4PdFt91YZsduileu5RpYr9Er7NwdjmDqluUNcMosyg9sLNWrpA1iaCw7y5X2bYJvc= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:15:12 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... I got the R&G sliders for the VFR. http://home.earthlink.net/~dchondarider/vfr/bobbins.htm They require drilling a 1" diameter hole. I did so because the middle fairings were not pristine and I got them mainly to protect the uppers, which I had to replace in mid-2003. On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:07:26 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require > > 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > > Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it > > weaken the fairings? > > The FJR's have the same issue... There's a $40 set that requires > drilling of the fairing and there's a $140 set that doesn't. A LOT of > people go for the expensive set. > > I doubt it would technically lower the resale value (I wouldn't consider > that to be "damage"), but *I* wouldn't buy it with a drilled fairing if > I had the option not to. > > --smthng > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:21:42 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jHqhN0WYhlATig5/C8IsdR9j3w+avTYCtCH7c6TgtGnc7MorkciErJ84ZU+ybt2lPGECiaa/KqD2fEnGIevJhSgMyCCvbiFgsxkUH3nwVO8tGWySC2SJRcsBP8blsn3J+96jh4gdHTdM/BXka+s3XT5Q5DwiHwWBVBrZDdV3sBc= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:21:35 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: NVCC Rider Training Open House 12/14/04 Some DC-Cyclers might be interested in this. BTW, I understand registration has already begun for the 2005 training season. Yours truly might even put in an appearance; see keywords "refreshments will be served." A side note: DC DMV is now accepting Maryland and Virginia MSF completion cards in lieu of a riding test. --------------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION: ALL PROSPECTIVE MOTORCYCLE STUDENTS, MOTORCYCLE DEALER REPRESENTATIVES & RIDERCOACHES You are invited to an OPEN HOUSE "Promoting Motorcycle Rider Training" Hosted by the Office of Continuing Education & Workforce Development (CEWD) Tuesday, December 14 5:00-7:00 pm Engineering Building, Room 213 3001 N. Beauregard Street, Alexandria, VA 22311 REFRESHMENTS WILL BE SERVED! Learn more about Motorcycle Training and other CEWD programs, register for classes, meet instructors, staff, and industry partners, ask questions and much more!! Registration for the first weekend class (March 11-13, 2005) will ONLY be available at THIS OPEN HOUSE! **In addition one lucky student (drawing held this evening) will have a spot in an available class of their choice (except the first weekend) paid for by CEWD!! Don't miss this Open House. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 4 01:54:12 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Cc: Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 01:53:47 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- It shouldn't lower the resale value so long as you include the frame sliders when you sell the bike. Frame sliders are a plus. I would buy fairings with the hole already cut, it would save me work. So long as the hole is cut neatly in the right spot. I say install the frame sliders and forget about it. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 10:58:33 2004 Subject: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: , , Hey all... I'm cross posting this one because I know that each group has different opinions on this and I'd like them all (and partially to see if my local list is still alive)... :P I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found any they like and trust? And for the Seca guys... I know that the Seca uses some weird sizes. Does anyone know off the top of their heads what the sizes are? I seem to recall that there's only one size that fits the stock rim on the front, but there are two that work on the rear. My local stealer has a stack of "weird size" tires that they'd probably pay me to take and I'd like to run in at lunch and see if they have one that fits. I imagine that rear is in the stack because I don't think it fits anything other than the Seca and one or two years from the YZF 600. Thanks all. --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 11:10:16 2004 From: To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , , , Subject: Re: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:09:59 -0500 > > From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > Date: 2004/12/06 Mon AM 10:58:29 EST > To: , , > > Subject: Need tires > > Hey all... I'm cross posting this one because I know that each group > has different opinions on this and I'd like them all (and partially to > see if my local list is still alive)... :P > > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > any they like and trust? > > And for the Seca guys... I know that the Seca uses some weird sizes. > Does anyone know off the top of their heads what the sizes are? I seem > to recall that there's only one size that fits the stock rim on the > front, but there are two that work on the rear. My local stealer has a > stack of "weird size" tires that they'd probably pay me to take and I'd > like to run in at lunch and see if they have one that fits. I imagine > that rear is in the stack because I don't think it fits anything other > than the Seca and one or two years from the YZF 600. > > Thanks all. > > --smthng > > I've had real good service and great prices from: http://www.swmototires.com/ hth, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 12:29:43 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=dDYGDo5QYsi1UeWoqVBvejehwGyo8Sm4tygnCjA0OtFr/4QpQ+V2o8SJ9Poc5GMnQwYuHILOVqUrPvSEXYLFHjqhDDPB8V3pQYVItTqz9Lm6B5f1uu98kkCoulSFhKpA2BSBElopfZL7NWcchDVhZEIUO7aRRGLWlU1yQ7SUwB4= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:29:32 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Need tires On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > any they like and trust? Call 1-800-888-3084 and ask for Chip - tell him Sean Jordan from the WERA BBS sent you. They've always done very well by me. http://www.ronayers.com/main.cfm -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 13:43:59 2004 From: To: Sean Jordan , Subject: Re: Re: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:43:51 -0500 > > From: Sean Jordan > Date: 2004/12/06 Mon PM 12:29:32 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Need tires > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes > > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > > any they like and trust? > > Call 1-800-888-3084 and ask for Chip - tell him Sean Jordan from the > WERA BBS sent you. They've always done very well by me. > > http://www.ronayers.com/main.cfm > > -- > Sean Jordan > Shoot to Thrill Photography > ..there's still BBS's out there? Whoa...cool. Let me dig around for my 1200 baud modem. ;-) -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 08:04:00 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'jkalmes@XXXXXX'" Subject: Need tires Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:07:42 -0500 Jonathan W. Kalmes sed, "I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found any they like and trust?" I agree with the others: Ron Ayers is great but has a limited selection. SW moto has been great but several SabMag members reported that the manager gets goofy and insulting. This started when someone reported that the drop-shipper sent an out-of-round tire. Check out prices at the local shops during "Open Houses". Often they include free mounting off the bike. Personally, I have found Chaparral's ad in "Motorcycle" "Motorcycling?" to have the best all around prices (bettah than their on-line prices). You can beat Chaparral's prices by a buck by calling D-Kirk with the issue and page number in hand --or -- give the two bucks to Chaparral for posting the most competitive prices. Carl in Bethesda Commuting into your nation's capital since 1981 through sun, rain, over snow, and around road ragers. '85 VF700S (Rocinito); '83 VF700F (666); '96 ST1100 (Stumped for a name) '97 Aerostich Roadcrafter (Fred the Red); '02 JR Phoenix: (Amarillo Joe) Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 09:11:40 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=F5q1KW+O0ZSGgToyQePUYhwcNeCXdT4SHM0FvxCMRru9vnSmLgSN+1iHjGVT0gBCSdvgku7rSBup8GU03S0S1kpwnwBhVkfS2XxC/XZ8lz4Ga4+3mJEQB0I2UqUJU25qS6VvW/ik0qLDFDCth/pbIHs+4N0MnIfPrCZfHkouMw0= ; Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 06:11:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Need tires To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Funny you should mention that. My last experience with SW moto reminded me of the "Seinfeld" episode with the Soup Nazi. Everyone on the net apparantly loves their services and prices so I thought I'd give it a try. So i bought tires from them and I emailed them afterwards about the ship/arrival date because my track day was coming up very very soon. My response from them was similar to "No soup for you" like the Soup Nazi! Well, I did get my tires but, I didn't need to be treated like a (paying) moron. Would I use again? Probably, because i think they have one of the best prices on the net, though Parts411.com has the best prices on the net but they take forever to arrive. Ryan > SW moto has been great but several SabMag members > reported that the manager > gets goofy and insulting. This started when someone > reported that the > drop-shipper sent an out-of-round tire. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 10:55:32 2004 Subject: Dirt bike riding ?? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:55:29 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DCCycles" Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great way to increase your skill level on a road bike? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:10:12 2004 Subject: RE: Dirt bike riding ?? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:10:09 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "Julian Halton" , "DCCycles" > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent > and ride dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen > by some as a great way to increase your skill level on a road bike? In short... You can push beyond your limits on dirt (and find out what your limits are in the first place), because it's generally not fatal if you F' up. :) --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:13:41 2004 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:13:38 -0500 From: stephen@XXXXXX To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Sent-Via: Mitel Networks SME Server There's not a lot in the area. Here's a better venue to ask this question: dcoffroad@XXXXXX Stephen Quoting Julian Halton : > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:47:09 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=tDQzXo9g2ReDPN5F3tDt2xc3nXW1uz4KxjPravX0nZ0p/OGOlDn8YchBJCmvg5v3EtAmsV2ITaLC1vl/WTcWpcY8tJW61U+fSV2GChKu/W3aBr8lLqTvjqkjTz/e9nHlJfo5RZyOEUvle8vO2+Ak7mXIh/SLrgdjYarztB6hhDg= ; Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Depends what you consider "this area". The GW forest just west of us (1-2 hours) has hundreds of miles of trails, forest roads, etc. There are also many places in PA to go to. Glenn --- stephen@XXXXXX wrote: > There's not a lot in the area. Here's a better venue > to ask this question: > > dcoffroad@XXXXXX > > Stephen > > > Quoting Julian Halton : > > > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you > can rent and ride > > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is > seen by some as a great > > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:27:49 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:27:08 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? At 10:55 AM 12/7/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > >Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride >dirt bikes? Nope, sorry. I vaguely remember someone posting here about a commercial place to ride in NoVa, but I don't think they rented bikes and I don't recall exactly where it was. >Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great >way to increase your skill level on a road bike? I don't ride a sport bike, but I've found that what I learned on my first bike (Yamaha XT-550 enduro (street-legal dirt bike if that term isn't used anymore)) carries over pretty well to the big cruiser I ride today. Based on my experience starting out with an enduro off road: 1. You don't panic at traction loss, but have developed reactions to handle it. A little fishtailing, such as when hard stopping with too much rear brake, or exiting White's Ferry on a wet steel ramp, is almost fun. 2. You develop good throttle control and clutch use. Besides frequent starting out on steep slopes, you also have a fair bit of bouncing around, and if you can't learn to isolate your hand motion from your arm and body motion, and know where the "friction zone" is for your clutch, you will have major problems. This is less true on the street, so you aren't always forced to learn about it to the same extent. Even more, if you treat the handle bars as a grab rail rather than a control you will crash a lot...so you learn not to do that, which is a Good Thing (tm). 3. Due to the widely varying traction levels off road you learn to feel traction through the bike pretty well. You can often feel when you are reaching the limits, before you lose them fully, and make adjustments. 4. You can't really ride very well at all on trails if you don't become a part of the bike...feel what it's doing, and react to it without having to think about it. It has to become an extension of you. On the street this is a very good thing to do, but it's not quite as critical to being able to ride at all like it is when the ground isn't flat, smooth or of consistent surface. 5. You learn to watch the area you are about to ride through pretty closely...without losing track of the area farther ahead too. I.e. you have to watch your route and plan ahead, but you also have to watch out for holes, ruts, branches or trees, small animals, and other things that can drop you in the dirt. It's not quite as critical most of the time on the street, but when it is, it's *really* critical, so it's a good thing to learn to do and make into a habit. There may be more, but that's what comes to mind right away. BTW, there are some things that riding off road won't really teach you much about. High speed cornering and "looking through the turn" for instance. Most of it is at relatively low speeds...unless you take up motocross or something. The bikes also feel very different from a street bike...they are usually light and with high CGs and very soft suspensions...at least in the initial part of the suspension travel. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:34:36 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=i7fRrSCTLaWEuDOjvLaYq5D2iGxPdkarR3tsLZSYbNk4oZ3YmrkS2isxXNx1rtn7rS3bth3x5i7iFHgSD+KbI5ku05uZT5pC6yKkXpAtDLSALz6EWKjPFj8gdEFWLbY2CMlzLnOcP9NBrCVKgSRkE0BxENXxvOVK/bdQNCNBN1M= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? Cc: DCCycles A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two day camp, everything provided. I've been thinking about it. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:55:29 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:46:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ZE4gVKgkUzzb8otutIQbuOnvIRjrN4DirBHU4LcC0/+Y+omfApEIuxJABuxtQ3RmZKGetjI1ONj5O88TWeN8WcZzET3oZM1gwRZKbxH0rZv2QMLiz5+mWzuZen+ekR9fRwJW9VxB0G6KsMRHsGd+OIAcDRI1pj6/xGCvKKxD4Jo= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:46:31 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 13:04:38 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:04:25 EST Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) Scooter In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:06:30 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.831, required 6, AWL -1.83) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. --skip ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:11:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=JXipeiy5J1DpHWoJ1xRQW51bnb7qhbeHxnmd5FHhNmTKCafpugoW6ySIfNKRRXRH+LmF1X502ciMQteXnyS5gdb+1QPR7YG7X6O2J2PVksdDko4K81cGpEE0hoKwpZOd1MpH2OHHIQ6xqyBHlqH0uKk3JAjxHs6ScWbeGL8Qh3I= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:11:19 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: skip Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The Delaware dates are April 15-16. May 15-16 is in San Bernardino, Calif., rideable for sure, but may require a few days off, unless your name is Leon. :) On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500, skip wrote: > If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 > looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. > > > > > --skip > > > > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:13:35 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:14:12 -0500 From: skip To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.828, required 6, AWL -1.83) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX doh. yeah. *4* 15 and *4* 16.... :~) Paul Wilson wrote: > > The Delaware dates are April 15-16. May 15-16 is in San Bernardino, > Calif., rideable for sure, but may require a few days off, unless your > name is Leon. :) > > On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500, skip wrote: > > If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 > > looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. > > > > > > > > > > --skip > > > > > > > > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > > > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > > > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > > > > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > > > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 16:15:26 2004 Subject: Not quite wintering a bike Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:15:23 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" Hey all, Quick question... I have an FZ1 that I'm probably not going to be able to sell until Spring rolls around. While I will be riding it a little bit every two weeks or so just to make sure it's not "sitting", I doubt I'll go through a full tank of gas any time soon. Sooooo.... Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? As I burn maybe an eighth of a tank of gas on a quick trip, should I top it up again before I park it just to lessen the chance of any moisture in the tank? Thanks. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 17:37:35 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:37:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike At 04:15 PM 12/7/04 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >to sell until Spring rolls around. While I will be riding it a little >bit every two weeks or so just to make sure it's not "sitting", I doubt >As I burn maybe an eighth of a tank of gas on a quick trip, should I top >it up again before I park it just to lessen the chance of any moisture >in the tank? 1/8 tank every 2 weeks? That's a full tank in 3 months...and you won't run it all the way dry even if you don't do the top-up after every ride thing...say fill up half way through? That means the gas will only be in there unmolested by fresh gas for at most a month and a half? I wouldn't worry about stabilizer...especially if you top up every ride or two. I do try to keep my tank full in the fall and spring though...when it's shifting between warm and cold on a daily basis. Condensation is worst when there's moisture in the air (warm air) and a cold tank. Happy to hear of others' experiences, but I rode every week or two all winter last year as you are suggesting, topped up before each ride, and had a period of as long as three weeks with the bike parked in the garage (snow days and icy roads) and had no problems with gas or water. Some rides were short (20-30 miles) and some were longer, but most were in the 50-80 mile range, so they weren't draining the tank every time. Heck, I didn't even use stabilizer in the lawnmower, and it started ok. Got used into November last year, and again about March or so I think, so it sat for at least 4 months with no harm done. Only time I've had problems with carbs gumming up was the XT-550 which sat for a couple of years without getting used once I got the Honda Saber....but even it started up with a few kicks, though it wasn't running happily at all without cleaning. On the other hand, bike maintenance is expensive, and Stabil is cheap...better safe than sorry? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 07:12:28 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:07:13 -0500 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >Hey all, >Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? > > > Sure, can't hurt. Plus its there just in case it actually sits for 2 months or more - you never know. >Thanks. > >--smthng > > Tom de '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:07:56 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "De Boeser, Tom" Cc: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:07:39 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- gas has a shelf life of what 6 months? Also indoor storage would be better, less condensation? - Danny On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:07:13 -0500, you wrote: >Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > >>Hey all, >>Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? >> >> >> >Sure, can't hurt. Plus its there just in case it actually sits for 2 >months or more - you never know. > >>Thanks. >> >>--smthng >> >> >Tom de '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:14:03 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ddVQ8QsLjXuRZI53fXOeGyqlYkuY3f2QZ3Xo4IZGhAhNDvspzMRt7meLI687qw/rV/2mPLQFqiKriuRqhNkcM/0PLY3qnNtyx2W7bGaLF4I1DmD1cN/c5hOvTHX6zdeciHnbtazQB0PwroB0/JQ2iNyiZzCHbFtXcZI92zo/jj8= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:13:53 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: "De Boeser, Tom" Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Cc: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES A few weeks back, there was a very useful contribution on this seasonal and perennial topic on the VFR list. Posted by a retired chemist who worked in the petroleum industry. --------------------------------------------- With all this talk of "winterizing", it is easy to propagate misleading or false information. So here is a very brief statement of the key issues. All gasolines are very complex mixtures of hundreds of hydrocarbon components (plus oxygenates these days), and plus a mix of additves to allow the fuel to meet all specifications. Most of the hydrocarbons are very stable when stored, but certain hydrocarbons, particularly the chemically unsaturated ones like olefins and certain others, like to react with each other to form polymers. These polymers are the "gummy" material that you find in old gas cans or in plugged up carbs or injectors. All gasolines sold legally (at least here in the USA) must have enough additives to slow down this formation of gums during the expected lifetime of that gasoline. There is a lab test which via heat and air accelerates this gum formation, and passing the lab test means the gasloine meets the stability specification. But it doesn't prevent gums, it only slows it down, so long term storage may require additional stabilizer, like the red StaBil that we can buy in most stores that sell that sort of thing. A couple of things accelerate gum formation, besides heat. Air and a low fuel/surface area ratio. Those are the main reasons that a full tank is better than an almost empty tank. Plus, excluding air also excludes moisture. However, in small places, like carb bowls, carb passages, or F.I. passages, there is a relatively LOW fuel/surface area ratio, which gives proportionally more sites for initiating polymerization. That's the greatest value of StaBil, preventing gum formation inside the small passages, and that is why running the engine after addition of the stabilizer is so important. However, forgetting about stabilizer and riding at least monthly will do an even better job!! Regarding hard starting after storage. That has nothing to do with the chemical stability of the fuel. Even without any stabilizer, the composition of the bulk of the fuel will change very little, and the octane will remain virtually the same. However, a couple of things may happen. During the fall and winter, gasoline has more butane added to increase the vapor pressure. This is to allow your car or motorcycle to start on a cold morning. Without the butane, there would not be enough vaporization of the gasoline. So, in storage, much of the butane can evaporate off, making starting in the springtime very difficult. If that is happening you would notice a lower fuel level in the springtime. Spraying some starter fluid into the intake system can overcome this. Or, your spark plugs simply may have become fouled during several months of storage. If I ever winterized a motorcycle (never had to), in the springtime I would remove all spark plugs and either clean them and expose bare metal on the electrodes, or replace them, before I tried to start the engine. I'd be happy to try and answer any additional concerns. Mike G in Houston 1994 VFR 750 http://www.pbase.com/txmike45/vfr750 -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:39:11 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500 To: "dc Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran over something." The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth $85,000. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:47:12 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Troutman'" , "'dc Cycles'" Subject: RE: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:47:02 -0500 They did NOT arrest him? WTF? -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] To: dc Cycles Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran over something." The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth $85,000. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:48:39 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:48:44 -0500 From: skip To: Troutman CC: dc Cycles Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-0.245, required 6, AWL -3.34, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 1.10, URIBL_OB_SURBL 2.00) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX I know we're invisible, but geez! Troutman wrote: > > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 11:46:51 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=g6XIuSD+B2r7oi+wejkQ+0uuJ9XdcDYFk+C2fzc54bUpHXx2vwZrb6VoJyKu+fXgdercuPys0yWBkvKd4z1z3Bl/s3SzP4OcruoHIOe4yIqBtLRoPds0nY5DAkUguKw3ZbKjB2NwI/nWO/+WCxPnxCExD0ZuEATrgy0SGdvJAlY= ; Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:46:20 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: "'dc Cycles'" An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Jim McGonigle wrote: >They did NOT arrest him? WTF? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:39 AM >To: dc Cycles >Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > > >http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > >Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > >BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a >motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled >onto the hood of the car. > >Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the >motorcyclist on the hood of his car. >"He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I >said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to >stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. > >"I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw >a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran >over something." > >The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road >7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get >up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. > >Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased >him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and >Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > >Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > >Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. >Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth >$85,000. > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:14:42 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Troutman , "dc Cycles" Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:19:27 -0500 I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. I can't believe they didn't arrent him, I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure running over someone and then leaving the scene of the accident is illegal. Regards, Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500, Troutman wrote > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed > into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the > screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. > > Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing > the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he > hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? > But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" > said witness Thomas Thibert. > > "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. > "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I > simply thought I ran over something." > > The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near > State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, > Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's > license plate number. > > Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He > chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol > troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > > Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > > Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. > Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was > worth $85,000. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:20:24 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:19:45 EST Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: kajotaene@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Probably a custom job since his is the Owner of Gangster Cycles. Who knows. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 11:47:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, kajotaene@XXXXXX writes: An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Jim McGonigle wrote: >They did NOT arrest him? WTF? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:39 AM >To: dc Cycles >Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > > >http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > >Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:20:45 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Rob Sharp'" , "'Troutman'" , "'dc Cycles'" Subject: RE: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:20:34 -0500 Nah, you can't hit motorcyclist and it doesn't account. Remember the pecking order - old drivers - suv drivers - luxury car drivers - other cars - pedestrians - dogs - cats - flower beds - rare bugs - bike riders - motorcyclist They only arrest you if you hit a dog or higher. ;) -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] To: Troutman; dc Cycles Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. I can't believe they didn't arrent him, I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure running over someone and then leaving the scene of the accident is illegal. Regards, Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500, Troutman wrote > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed > into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the > screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. > > Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing > the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. > He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? > But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" > said witness Thomas Thibert. > > "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. > "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply > thought I ran over something." > > The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near > State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas > managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license > plate number. > > Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He > chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol > troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > > Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > > Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. > Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was > worth $85,000. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:37:26 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:37:15 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood At 08:46 AM 12/8/04 -0800, Kelly Norton wrote: >An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would >be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Custom bikes are expensive...though it's possible the value of that one has been pumped up a bit, post accident... Typical custom from Texas Iron Horse, Vengeance, or the other high volume builders are in the $30,000-$50,000 range. The Tuttles built one on their TV show for a special order customer that was $145,000. Enough custom fabrication, chrome or polishing, fancy artwork paint, and high performance parts will run the total for a custom bike up fast. There are some paint jobs that cost more than the average H-D bike does. I agree, I'd be really hesitant to ride a bike that cost that much...but then again, there are people who make that in a week or less, so it's not that big a deal for them, and it would be insured anyway. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:38:39 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:38:35 -0500 To: "dc Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Looks to be in his late 30s and dumb as a brick. Hit him with an early 90s Thunderbird. At 08:19 AM 12/8/2004, Rob Sharp wrote: >I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I >would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I >would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:06:05 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rrdSLrtcmKbqrzmyWHDfcbIAjUiNAof6vQhJlB0cEIHzRtyHDT3xu4lIP1k5DCiDqq9SuEBgWZZbCoGFXpFMYnzZAiTLRXYqHCKzuYH+ZpIOmj21ObzAD8JlvNTKqq1jWpOTf7n+/BG+J7IiKxif3s4zhTqQAoyssHyYDTlMmpk= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:05:57 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-CYCLES Subject: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos How about a big Bronx cheer for the DC Council? No, it's not the baseball stadium giveaway this time. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45272-2004Dec7.html They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. Reasons cited: lower emissions and fuel consumption. Well, folks, my motos get 40-45 mpg in city traffic, better than some hybrid drivers claim in real world conditions. Also cited in the article increases in fees for SUVs >5,000 pounds, citing size, and wear and tear on the roads. If that's the criteria to use, let's review: 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid 175" length, 67.5" width, 2,449 lbs. curb weight 2005 Toyota Prius 175" length, 67.9" width, 2,890 lbs. curb weight 1995 Honda VFR750 83.7" length, 28.3" width, 523 lbs. curb weight 2005 Kawasaki KLR650 87" length, 37" width, 392 lbs. curb weight It seems to me that the Council's rationale for taxing motorcycles at 44% higher rates than hybrid cages flunks miserably on both counts. Letter dispatched soon to Councilmember Schwartz. DC residents, this appears to be Bill 15-1011, if you care to lodge a complaint with your Councilmembers. **"So-called" because they still derive 100% of their go-juice from burning petroleum, just like every other vehicle on the road. Would my motos be "hybrids" if I shifted to neutral and coasted down every hill? -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:08:00 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:07:48 EST Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX According to the link. "Today, however they have announced he is charged with the following: Leaving the scene of an accident involving damage. Failure to report an accident immediately. Failure to leave information. Careless driving. Having no insurance." I bet the last one is why he kept on going. He probably hoped the guy would fall off and there were no witnesses. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 12:39:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: Looks to be in his late 30s and dumb as a brick. Hit him with an early 90s Thunderbird. At 08:19 AM 12/8/2004, Rob Sharp wrote: >I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I >would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I >would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:18:27 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:17:37 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 01:05 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the >fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less >than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. You should never be surprised when a neo-liberal government acts illogically, but within the bounds of "Politically Correct". Keep electing such people, and you'll keep seeing results like this. I wouldn't expect D.C. to change anytime soon...you might want to consider moving...you are within 5 miles of at least a slight improvement, and you wouldn't be the first to do so. At least your tax rates would be lower, even if you still didn't like the government's policies. D.C.'s population has dropped, what, 100,000 in the last 20 years (about 20% I think that is). If it keeps up, the whole "home rule" and "representation/statehood" issues will be moot...nobody will be living there anymore. Besides being lower in weight, a bike only uses half the lane too, so there's even lower road wear than the lower weight might indicate...so things are even worse than you thought! ;-) Not to mention only half the tire disposal problem...or less, as the tires are smaller as well as being less-numerous. Ok, so maybe they don't last as long as car tires and that balances things out a bit...they take up less parking space, which decreases that problem too...or could if the government would set things up to take advantage of that fact... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:24:54 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=BK54weykqXqO2gZ3dJPxvhJHVENhNktIjrZK1oS0kCDivy1bgELoaHrZkTnvwhxjsQ1UZDX9tvBl3e1flppSNpq5glGCWy+rZwCu9DGh5r1gc4VI6YuwJz05p3d7ZsIIxy2rMeg51mcHkGxAst+zv2ZbnJABeNOc73elC6JLu+4= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:24:42 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. Hey, aren't my bikes "hybrids"? You guys are always prattling on about "rice-burners." That ought to qualify them as alternative fuel vehicles. ;-) On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:17:37 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:05 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the > >fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less > >than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. > > You should never be surprised when a neo-liberal government acts > illogically, but within the bounds of "Politically Correct". Keep electing > such people, and you'll keep seeing results like this. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:40:25 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=32mnICUe2jjmtVR0FDHhSQse2JFN0OmJWDHLVLvKVd7oJQ6xJ9zZ5X89bJIrDHu7r6ocYbOgsiru2c76DbuqFkKaxFwKJ6SC2u71ABYg/zgx1hJigDCSbNBui15nrDnc+v+1tA8Y0tNVFgcIovlehCbDmTdIcL6V1F0baTT3IOc= ; Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay more. Not to mention that some of them take up more than one parking space in my area. As for motorcycles, remember this is the democratic process. They had two public hearings on this issue and not one motorcyclist showed up but hybrid owners did. So we got left you. He did agree that its a good point about motorcycles and that he will try to keep us in mind in the future. However this bill is on the Mayor's desk so its not going to happen now. As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. I find myself very happy with my limited political representation in DC and am thrilled when government policy attemps (however flawed) to encourage gas efficient veichles and discourage oversized veichles. BTW, the author of this bill is a Republican. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > How about a big Bronx cheer for the DC Council? No, > it's not the > baseball stadium giveaway this time. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45272-2004Dec7.html > > They've cut registration fees for so-called > hybrids**, dropping the > fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're > wondering, $36 is less > than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. > > Reasons cited: lower emissions and fuel > consumption. Well, folks, my > motos get 40-45 mpg in city traffic, better than > some hybrid drivers > claim in real world conditions. > > Also cited in the article increases in fees for SUVs > >5,000 pounds, > citing size, and wear and tear on the roads. If > that's the criteria > to use, let's review: > > 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid > > 175" length, 67.5" width, 2,449 lbs. curb weight > > 2005 Toyota Prius > > 175" length, 67.9" width, 2,890 lbs. curb weight > > 1995 Honda VFR750 > > 83.7" length, 28.3" width, 523 lbs. curb weight > > 2005 Kawasaki KLR650 > > 87" length, 37" width, 392 lbs. curb weight > > It seems to me that the Council's rationale for > taxing motorcycles at > 44% higher rates than hybrid cages flunks miserably > on both counts. > > Letter dispatched soon to Councilmember Schwartz. > DC residents, this > appears to be Bill 15-1011, if you care to lodge a > complaint with your > Councilmembers. > > **"So-called" because they still derive 100% of > their go-juice from > burning petroleum, just like every other vehicle on > the road. Would > my motos be "hybrids" if I shifted to neutral and > coasted down every > hill? > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:41:25 2004 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES I meant Paul and I will live where WE want...separately...not that there is anything wrong with that. (-; __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:53:48 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:53:28 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 10:40 AM 12/8/04 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: >I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. >First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for >tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay >more. Who says an SUV does more damage? They weigh more in general, though not much more than a luxury car in many cases, but they also tend to have larger tire contact patches, which spreads the weight better. It's the lbs/sq in figure that kills the roads for the most part. Still, bikes are low impact no matter what you look at: weight, fuel consumption, air pollution (at least on newer bikes), parking space, impact damage, resource usage. About the only place they probably lose out to cars is in the area of noise pollution...and that's not the case with *all* bikes...just the fun ones! ;-) >As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live >where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. I wasn't bitching about the D.C. government, Paul was. I was just pointing out that it's easily avoidable, and that a lot of people have figured that out already. This isn't the first stupid law that's been proposed there, or even enacted. Maryland certainly has its share of stupid laws, but the rate seems to be slightly lower here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:53:49 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. Fewer cars means less pollution. A car that pollutes less does the same thing. Hybrids were found to pollute less by the EPA, so they qualify for priveleges...the fact that the EPA screwed up the tests is a separate issue... >Hey, aren't my bikes "hybrids"? You guys are always prattling on >about "rice-burners." That ought to qualify them as alternative fuel >vehicles. ;-) Works for me...when you are pushing it down the road, you are "bio-energy powered" too! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:56:58 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ToihC3GEKTaXiOTHxicbvjcE1pu50cmCNgC01IASuJ4K3xPNmqb58A6kX8NDvrGtHU5wS8AOwRE5/5SW4G+wP8Z7G+wPNgTanv08QDrbEQ3C1dYQgkA61VQzRTsplqbc6YNhxdWQ4cpDKZflfl1pRLfzm6/ZUZeBLOD/VK75G4c= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:56:51 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES While we're handing out the Razzberry Awards, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention two things the DC Gov't got right this year, with respect to motorcycles. 1) Reciprocity for rider training with Md. and Va. Md. and Va. MSF card-holders need no longer take the DMV's riding test. 2) Inspections good for two years, just like cages. Previously motos needed to inspected annually. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0800 (PST), Mark Kitchell wrote: > I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. > First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for > tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay > more. Not to mention that some of them take up more > than one parking space in my area. > > As for motorcycles, remember this is the democratic > process. They had two public hearings on this issue > and not one motorcyclist showed up but hybrid owners > did. So we got left you. He did agree that its a > good point about motorcycles and that he will try to > keep us in mind in the future. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:02:38 2004 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:02:05 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: DC-CYCLES >As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live >where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. [Dave] Paul? Something you want to share with the list? ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:06:54 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=GntMIGXcFXTOMtl2AMQF45aFZkZ1QlrKnkvBs/ihVSooxNvXuB280OfCWibhXznVwOSyJdPwtuwRiIBq4MBtQmmDkW2YSzYXiVDusg85eAR0r8V49tA9tX7GWcOkw0lVntDQ8Jc6OFooDYrHXI6Np349mlzU3AJETIsVBTeobCA= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:06:47 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their fleets. On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA > >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do > >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was > >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. > > No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help > with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. > > HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:08:22 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=bl3iNSvP8ZdK/5BAuNt9DSfAnWS4Y7SmyHCL0Xopo4MoTUVmL9skMss135M3uOmrcSrF150Jn2kY6h3wyZGJ0toMbZ/GmuE9Rh1N986izAvT60W4E/Yj06FGeJkY/+ybxJ51OwwVzorsM/LuJvymyB4S7fzMokBoYl3xBwBdeQo= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:08:13 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no better mileage at highway speeds than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE targets without improving the economy of the other offerings in their fleets. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:06:47 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds > than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, > much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do > better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe > that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) > > HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. > Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. > > You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto > manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE > targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their > fleets. > > > > > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA > > >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do > > >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was > > >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. > > > > No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help > > with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. > > > > HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:19:18 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500 To: Paul Wilson From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES At 03:06 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds >than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, >much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do >better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe >that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) Works for me! I can't drive them anyway...I doubt anyone much over 5'5" could. I hear they are working on some full-sized hybrids for future years, but at the moment I'm excluded even if I wanted one. Wonder if the ADA covers height? >HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. >Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. Well, as an air pollution improver they are a dismal failure I think. If you just added the extra lanes as normal travel lanes, and thus sped up *all* the traffic, even a little, I think you'd get better figures than letting a few go fast while everyone else is essentially stopped. Lowering average trip time should be the goal...and not just from an air quality standpoint. What they should have done was make everyone buy bikes, and divided the existing lanes in half...except maybe for a dedicated truck lane. BTW, SUVs already pay more for road maintenance than bikes or light cars do. Host highway funds come from gas taxes... >You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto >manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE >targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their >fleets. Also lets them sell more hybrids to those members of the soy and granola crowd who skipped math and science classes in school. Their little green hearts are in the right place, but they need some education to go with that I think. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:33:06 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=eHjAE6fMB44kmi9X0Q3G4D88/3lvRj3wJ9hVVvlP0wz80xt05Itk1C5QxoXXDf4CW0cOZEKEvhWZdZtXllMhoezJnTj/8RjJsq3kcWwvZzNptMAnGLRgdFrze83GRUOS7D9FkOzC99KDNCgzMkEbKikv4huZUflmiHjj+nxQzaI= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:32:58 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-CYCLES Subject: Aytch Oh Vee, was Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos And don't even get me started on the rampant cheating that goes on. Especially on roads like the Dulles Toll Road, 66 outside 495 and 270 where it's easy to hop back and forth in case the po-po makes an appearance. On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > > Well, as an air pollution improver they are a dismal failure I think. If > you just added the extra lanes as normal travel lanes, and thus sped up > *all* the traffic, even a little, I think you'd get better figures than > letting a few go fast while everyone else is essentially stopped. Lowering > average trip time should be the goal...and not just from an air quality > standpoint. > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:37:35 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=XyH7SXvzes4lLQAaGvIwN1uijgm3IWEyMvpBDtH9UYNU00fQkR3zw64BL4jwPOmeJoAB7D6/Xls7bvCjal0AjxlrZTgFkb55LPDF5s2G1P6whwOnfcTXM3S4wc6C2u+SFqlLKOdxM1dveMPJLVzhg1VOlwqLpHSCdapsqgdp9zU= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:37:26 -0500 From: Thomas Jordan To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos You can't fit in a Ford Explorer? On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > Works for me! I can't drive them anyway...I doubt anyone much over 5'5" > could. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:46:25 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:46:16 -0500 Put a bicycle generator/motor on the rear wheel and you have yourself a hybrid. As far as emissions go I thought motorcycle were pretty bad in comparison to model cars with all the emissions systems. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:05:57 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote > > **"So-called" because they still derive 100% of their go-juice from > burning petroleum, just like every other vehicle on the road. Would > my motos be "hybrids" if I shifted to neutral and coasted down every > hill? > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:51:13 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:51:06 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Have they introduced a hybrid Explorer already? I hadn't heard about that. Don't know if I'd fit anyway though...those things look pretty cramped. The vehicle is plenty big enough, but they are really stupid with the use of space. Too much low dash, wide center console stuff...but I'm just going by looks from outside...I haven't actually tried to get into one yet. -- -- Mike B. A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? At 03:37 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Thomas Jordan wrote: >You can't fit in a Ford Explorer? > > >On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: >> Works for me! I can't drive them anyway...I doubt anyone much over 5'5" >> could. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:53:25 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:53:12 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 03:46 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >As far as emissions go I thought motorcycle were pretty bad in comparison to >model cars with all the emissions systems. Comparatively speaking, yes, but that's about to change and moto manufacturers are already looking into lowering emissions in expectation that the regulations are about to change for them. Or so I've read. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:56:32 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:56:14 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Also how do you drive normally, and also get chased at the same time? he was either Speeding and trying to get away - being chased or driving normally, being oblivious, and being followed. the cops were idiots for not arresting him. All those crimes he committed, even if he was oblivius, he should have been arrested. I wonder how long the car had hte man on the hood? as far as the price tag of the bike, hte guy is the owner of a shop, he probably did all the custom work himself, cutting the costs down substantially, of what it actually costs for him to build. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:56:56 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Ple1SqhsPOu/3KcgoeFVosco57yaL1v+rj+glGPqG3mGFi8VKuR9jt4ZOJ/WUHWj7p+Fo+Q7a63rxR3w6oennQgZiTpof0isw3V9o+T7u7I+2aBJx++KABd8WYudvlesTaXKH8rgLuIkCXmfnHptwrRvOZMj6h9jRUbBGASJG9M= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:56:48 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:53:28 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > > I wasn't bitching about the D.C. government, Paul was. I was just pointing > out that it's easily avoidable. > Which is pretty patronizing, not to mention redundant, Mike. Are you *really* pontificating for my benefit? Aw shucks....You think I'm such a lost little lamb who can't figure that out on his own? I'm not sure the pecularities of the nanny state in Maryland are much preferable to that in DC. You need to look at the whole package too. I find some of the intrusiveness of *local* leviathan governments in places like Fairfax and Montgomery to be pretty odious, particularly on issues like property rights and the all-pervasive, small-minded NIMBYism and BANANAism**. Besides, SWMBO and I are city people at heart, warts and all, so that's where we are. This is off-topic, so I'll shut up now. **Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:57:01 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Paul Wilson Cc: DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:56:55 -0500 In an effort to even further de-rail this thread. We need lane spliting!!!! Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 03:06 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > >Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds > >than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, > >much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do > >better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe > >that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) > > Works for me! I can't drive them anyway...I doubt anyone much over 5'5" > could. I hear they are working on some full-sized hybrids for future > years, but at the moment I'm excluded even if I wanted one. Wonder > if the ADA covers height? > > >HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. > >Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. > > Well, as an air pollution improver they are a dismal failure I > think. If you just added the extra lanes as normal travel lanes, > and thus sped up *all* the traffic, even a little, I think you'd > get better figures than letting a few go fast while everyone else is > essentially stopped. Lowering average trip time should be the > goal...and not just from an air quality standpoint. > > What they should have done was make everyone buy bikes, and divided the > existing lanes in half...except maybe for a dedicated truck lane. > > BTW, SUVs already pay more for road maintenance than bikes or light cars > do. Host highway funds come from gas taxes... > > >You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto > >manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE > >targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their > >fleets. > > Also lets them sell more hybrids to those members of the soy and granola > crowd who skipped math and science classes in school. Their little green > hearts are in the right place, but they need some education to go > with that I think. > > -- > -- Mike B. > > '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non- > Harley folks) > > Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes > is better. -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:00:32 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:00:26 -0500 I have personally seen a Hybrid Ford Escape in the Kings Farm area in Rockville. Random bit: GM is selling all electric S10 fleet vehicles. On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:51:06 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > Have they introduced a hybrid Explorer already? I hadn't heard > about that. > > Don't know if I'd fit anyway though...those things look pretty cramped. > The vehicle is plenty big enough, but they are really stupid with > the use of space. Too much low dash, wide center console > stuff...but I'm just going by looks from outside...I haven't > actually tried to get into one yet. > > -- > -- Mike B. > > A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. > Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? > > At 03:37 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Thomas Jordan wrote: > >You can't fit in a Ford Explorer? > > > > > >On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Works for me! I can't drive them anyway...I doubt anyone much over 5'5" > >> could. -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:10:04 2004 X-OB-Received: from unknown (205.158.62.50) by wfilter.us4.outblaze.com; 8 Dec 2004 21:09:53 -0000 From: "David Blumgart" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:09:52 -0500 Subject: Lane Splitting Rob Sharp wrote: >> In an effort to even further de-rail this thread. >> We need lane spliting!!!! Perhaps I'm a total minority, but I wouldn't lane split if it were legal. Nothing pisses off Americans more than someone getting to do something they can't, and motorists stuck in rush hour are plenty pissed off enough already. Like Blanche DuBois, bikers "live by the kindness of strangers." There's enough assholes with straight pipes and high-speed weaving squids making all the enemies we need as it stands. -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:35:16 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:27:50 -0500 To: DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 03:56 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >In an effort to even further de-rail this thread. > >We need lane spliting!!!! Filtering at red lights, maybe. Lane splitting? No way. Traffic accidents tie up things worse than merge lanes do and the 2-wheel fatality and injury rates are higher than healthy from a regulatory standpoint already. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:35:16 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:35:02 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 03:56 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >I find some of the intrusiveness of *local* leviathan governments in >places like Fairfax and Montgomery to be pretty odious, particularly >on issues like property rights and the all-pervasive, small-minded >NIMBYism and BANANAism**. We agree there. I'd never consider a move to Fairfax, and I'll be moving out of Montgomery County in the not too distant future I expect. Still deciding where to though. Frederick, Washington, Loudon and a couple of other places are high on the list...if anyone has reasons to hate any of those, I'm happy to hear about it off-list. >Besides, SWMBO and I are city people at >heart, warts and all, so that's where we are. There are cities in Maryland and Virginia. Baltimore should have an acceptable crime rate to keep a D.C. denizen happy. I don't think Virginia has anyplace equivalent though...even Norfolk isn't that high. Probably the "shall issue" laws and instant background check system they have down there... >This is off-topic, so I'll shut up now. Me too...despite my never having used AOL. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:35:16 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:29:30 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood At 03:56 PM 12/8/04 -0500, daniel.dc@XXXXXX wrote: >I wonder how long the car had hte man on the hood? I wonder how he saw the license plate from there...there are several aspects of the current reports here that aren't adding up very well. Something's missing someplace... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:40:48 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "David Blumgart" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lane Splitting Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:40:39 -0500 Pretty sure anyone can buy a motorcycle and lane split too. If they choose to sit in their car and watch me go by then because I am in a motorcycle thats their choice. I wonder how many people actually have it in them to activily try to injure/kill a motorcycle rider because they are lane spilting? I spent 4 months in San Fran and I never saw people getting upset for lane spliting. I didn't drive at all and mostly walked/metro'd or taxi'd. Kind of an enjoyable 4 months not having to drive anywhere. Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:09:52 -0500, David Blumgart wrote > Rob Sharp wrote: > >> In an effort to even further de-rail this thread. > > >> We need lane spliting!!!! > > Perhaps I'm a total minority, but I wouldn't lane split if it were > legal. Nothing pisses off Americans more than someone getting to do > something they can't, and motorists stuck in rush hour are plenty > pissed off enough already. Like Blanche DuBois, bikers "live by the > kindness of strangers." There's enough assholes with straight pipes > and high-speed weaving squids making all the enemies we need as it stands. > -- > ___________________________________________________________ > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com > http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 16:50:42 2004 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 16:50:35 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Lane Splitting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Rob asks: >I wonder how many people actually have it in them to >activily try to injure/kill a motorcycle rider because they >are lane spilting? [Dave] I don't. If'n I'm sitting in a cage, stuck in traffic, and happen to see a m/c upcoming, more power to them. OTOH, woe to the dumbass coming up too fast ignoring my turnsignal to jump into the other lane which is moving faster... Traffic around here rewards a "to the victor go the spoils" attitude about driving, and it can either be you in the lane that moves faster, or, somebody else. I've backed out of more than one lane swap upon seeing an approaching moto, and 2 of them were way to close calls. If they'd just been managing their speed a little better in the barely moving traffic, I'd have probably noticed them a bit sooner ... >I spent 4 months in San Fran and I never saw people getting >upset for lane spliting. I didn't drive at all and mostly >walked/metro'd or taxi'd. Kind of an enjoyable >4 months not having to drive anywhere. [Dave] That's a different culture out there from what I've heard... ;-) As with anything, done correctly, and in moderation, I'm sure it can be effective.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 17:24:19 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:24:05 EST Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Granted, I don't pay much attention to the news anymore but, I don't remember seeing anything about a public hearing to discuss this. I watch the morning news and they usually try to put these things in every once in a while. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 1:40:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: As for motorcycles, remember this is the democratic process. They had two public hearings on this issue and not one motorcyclist showed up but hybrid owners did. So we got left you. He did agree that its a good point about motorcycles and that he will try to keep us in mind in the future. However this bill is on the Mayor's desk so its not going to happen now. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 17:27:45 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=myEodxjTjDWJocQSR2kn52fO9mZQbzjVgvCck8Ef+O7cKjBaI1Jc7ArJWXZ7dU+L0vIJlp68dmsqTCuZuADKilw0t4gn4T4VMPm6OpQollRlYBSWe2Jc+t5uquFtIeAx/gf6AHukGY746eEj30aNFv5I3dwyf3H2DVx1EKEGk3g= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:27:37 -0500 From: Robert To: Paul Wilson Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You can't be serious. Urban sprawl as far as the eye can see, building subdivisions anywhere and everywhere, and this is an example of NIMBY-ism? Jeeze, the whole East Coast is one colossal housiing development from Key Largo to Portland, Maine. Personally, I like the idea of taxing large SUVs at a higher rate. However, as a motorcycle rider, I think I get a pretty sweet deal by being able to ride in the HOV lanes already, so I'm not complaining that I have to pay more than a hybrid vehicle. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:56:48 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: You need to look at the whole package too. I find some of the intrusiveness of *local* leviathan governments in places like Fairfax and Montgomery to be pretty odious, particularly on issues like property rights and the all-pervasive, small-minded NIMBYism and BANANAism**. Besides, SWMBO and I are city people at > heart, warts and all, so that's where we are. > > This is off-topic, so I'll shut up now. > > **Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 17:27:49 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:27:36 EST Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I think the article said he got the plate after he finally fell off or the witness got the plate. Something like that. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 4:35:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: >I wonder how long the car had hte man on the hood? I wonder how he saw the license plate from there...there are several aspects of the current reports here that aren't adding up very well. Something's missing someplace... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 17:55:17 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=aprQjAVqV40juoKe7ZHxAQWUVTfMHdEbNaxv8FmfkqROIQklSAS2sJhsGP8Gi5dHLHkd3G5BaK5sneKxqZ7oB8JIHXUFrd+2anPTnStwlpzLvNA4UGoXDfy6olX3ppA3m2wmlXrgJbIa984xVnKlGiOHXI94OWlfESXlsNELpsc= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:55:10 -0500 From: Thomas Jordan To: dc-cycles Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Wow, I'm glad gmail keeps all this crap sorted out so that I can delete it all with one click..... On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:27:37 -0500, Robert wrote: > You can't be serious. Urban sprawl as far as the eye can see, > building subdivisions anywhere and everywhere, and this is an > example of NIMBY-ism? Jeeze, the whole East Coast is one colossal > housiing development from Key Largo to Portland, Maine. > > Personally, I like the idea of taxing large SUVs at a higher rate. > However, as a motorcycle rider, I think I get a pretty sweet deal by > being able to ride in the HOV lanes already, so I'm not complaining > that I have to pay more than a hybrid vehicle. > > > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:56:48 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > You need to look at the whole package too. I find some of the > intrusiveness of *local* leviathan governments in places like Fairfax > and Montgomery to be pretty odious, particularly on issues like > property rights and the all-pervasive, small-minded > NIMBYism and BANANAism**. Besides, SWMBO and I are city people at > > heart, warts and all, so that's where we are. > > > > This is off-topic, so I'll shut up now. > > > > **Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything > > > > -- "The official mourning period is over today and there is a silver lining: George W. Bush is prohibited by law from running again." Michael Moore From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 20:17:44 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=s7TTp+hvjTGH6wBFm5RvuVAaT1ggezUk9WX4Q6RTducjsFXJy1VvmZIIFNAvtvU8ZbLKpuPAK7eoICpiMgNRTopJRjnofQrpEPUa8HKhBRB3OGrDhkB9X7BoEDYNThJe93Gbg+zXWGrBo+XBpbI4uBcNYDJpbNUzy8C10fUgxmo= ; Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:16:59 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Lane Splitting To: David Blumgart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- David Blumgart wrote: > Perhaps I'm a total minority, but I wouldn't lane > split if it were legal. So don't. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean that it's required. In the 5 years since I've started working downtown, I can remember two people who objected to my splitting lanes. One was an off-duty cop who showed her badge and reminded me that it was illegal to split lanes. I thanked her and didn't split lanes for as long as she was in sight. The other was one of those pissed off motorists you describe. After blocking me twice as I attempted to pass, I finally moved over a lane and went by between two other vehicles. Afterward, I looked back and we waved at each other, I smiled and used all of my fingers when I waved. Inside DC, most motorists will move aside and let me by. It isn't a big deal. > Nothing pisses off > Americans more than someone getting to do something > they can't So you're saying people hate Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon because they get to drive 180mph and everyone else can't? I thought the hate was because of their personality. One learns something everyday. Do you hate Playboy bunnies because they get invited to the Playboy mansion and you don't? Or do you just hate Hugh Hefner because he's almost 80 and gets to . . . hmm, never mind, this is off-topic.\ Leon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 22:06:05 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:05:22 -0500 From a generally negative coverage of the investment viability of hybrids, a few snippets: At current prices, "It takes the hybrid buyer 13-15 years to recoup the upfront costs of ownership from fuel savings alone." [crunching the standard numbers on a Civic Hybrid vs. a Civic EX] ". . .the allure of hybrids seems largely psychological." "Consumers have been disappointed in the real-world fuel efficiency on hybrids . . ." "Tax incentives for hybrid buyers may be diminishing." "Unless hybrid sales far exceed those of other makes, we believe it is unlikely to be a positive-return business." "Evolutionary technologies such as cylinder deactivation and diesel technology are best positioned for mass-market adoption in the near future." [Recouping time shown as 1.7 and 3.8 years respectively.] Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Talk to me about fueling with water. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 08:39:55 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=NPaWHjlCx1Jaz9kgRCtJaV5zMG2DcqUOYk6J4pR0oc1Q3y5CM2CvSJEIDtoDY0nfA1+aeyE8j0tI4VcxyOaRI9Q7XBJa87gkOYOLufPgfrzPHUziUjODjQ/2PzqjzGUpNc0dbIHsfuruhhXl51+ABPCeMvahGL9h45TobfVdzX4= ; Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 05:39:45 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Robert , Paul Wilson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes but his BANNANA comment is valid. Everyone needs a home on .5 acre with big sidewalks, flat shopping centers, etc. Building further and further out away from existing public transport, existing schools, etc. It is nice to see places like Clarendon popping up in VA with development concentrated. --- Robert wrote: > You can't be serious. Urban sprawl as far as the > eye can see, > building subdivisions anywhere and everywhere, and > this is an > example of NIMBY-ism? Jeeze, the whole East Coast > is one colossal > housiing development from Key Largo to Portland, > Maine. > > Personally, I like the idea of taxing large SUVs at > a higher rate. > However, as a motorcycle rider, I think I get a > pretty sweet deal by > being able to ride in the HOV lanes already, so I'm > not complaining > that I have to pay more than a hybrid vehicle. > > On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:56:48 -0500, Paul Wilson > wrote: > You need to look at the whole package too. I find > some of the > intrusiveness of *local* leviathan governments in > places like Fairfax > and Montgomery to be pretty odious, particularly on > issues like > property rights and the all-pervasive, small-minded > NIMBYism and BANANAism**. Besides, SWMBO and I are > city people at > > heart, warts and all, so that's where we are. > > > > This is off-topic, so I'll shut up now. > > > > **Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 09:34:14 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=cne/VWO5ri3cBFIA5YkrOfKiuTmFA8KRwfq1PoAxSRKq7+GhBMzCBlf6E/aCgL+FPeShCTU6T4opBgFBVLi6NtoUQ/D28MEt0cSYrUR1L4GMaV2gCATuibUOF4o1cS2ye1LmcVP3G1UUFqcy4keUwLomW0EJGzta6Pv45feNti0= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:34:06 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: "W.S." Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-Cycles On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:05:22 -0500, W.S. wrote: > From a generally negative coverage of the investment viability of hybrids, a > few snippets: > > At current prices, "It takes the hybrid buyer 13-15 years to recoup > the upfront costs of ownership from fuel savings alone." [crunching the > standard numbers on a Civic Hybrid vs. a Civic EX] ". . .the allure of > hybrids seems largely psychological." > > "Consumers have been disappointed in the real-world fuel efficiency > on hybrids . . ." > > "Tax incentives for hybrid buyers may be diminishing." > > "Unless hybrid sales far exceed those of other makes, we believe it > is unlikely to be a positive-return business." > > "Evolutionary technologies such as cylinder deactivation and diesel > technology are best positioned for mass-market adoption in the near future." > [Recouping time shown as 1.7 and 3.8 years respectively.] > > Bill S. / DC (on digest) One more thing: the legislation also eliminated the 6% vehicle excise tax on hybrids only. As well as creating a special 8% bracket for passenger vehicles in excess of 5,000 lbs. There is yet another bracket, at 7%, for veehickles 'tween 3,500 and 5,000 lbs. So, the crapulent old KLR I bought on eBay, the bike that tips the scales at around 400 lbs. and gets 45 mpg, I had to cough up 6% in excise tax, based on the NADA numbers. Ditto for folks of limited means who buy used cars. But a brand new hybrid costing 20 grand? Nada, zip, zero..... That's not to mention some on the federal tax breaks. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 09:35:57 2004 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:35:46 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Yes but his BANNANA comment is valid. Everyone needs >a home on .5 acre with big sidewalks, flat shopping >centers, etc. Building further and further out away >from existing public transport, existing schools, etc. [Dave] No, it's not. If city goin' is such a hot ticket, why to all the bikers not ride into the city? Why do they migrate to Skyline drive and similar destinations? I like living close to Walmart, but I wouldn't want to live next door to it. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 09:41:36 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=QAhklXpohqBZDqd8EhgDSgf55taO2ss7rv8txbFA68NgfKPnzV2PLBoDHHuxCUbzRjI22+f6xEjddghMlK0wx+OPG/1RPxOBjPKhQTYQokQkoBcLnjjV0AobXxHiRmziGRbFksEAvmPm7mtocTi+cMGCSVkN/LWmm+nZu9HTQRs= ; Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I understand that, I really do. Sometimes I hate living in a city. BUt....lets be real. This is not sustainable. If we don't start living closer together there will be NO skyline drive in 50 years.... --- Dave Yates wrote: > >Yes but his BANNANA comment is valid. Everyone > needs > >a home on .5 acre with big sidewalks, flat shopping > >centers, etc. Building further and further out > away > >from existing public transport, existing schools, > etc. > > [Dave] No, it's not. If city goin' is such a hot > ticket, > why to all the bikers not ride into the city? Why > do they > migrate to Skyline drive and similar destinations? > > I like living close to Walmart, but I wouldn't want > to live > next door to it. > Dave Yates > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 10:08:44 2004 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:08:08 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >BUt....lets be real. This is not sustainable. If we >don't start living closer together there will be NO >skyline drive in 50 years.... [Dave] It's not sustainable for the current climate, given the current sentiments. Reality notwithstanding ... or something like that ... there has to be some open space. The dreaded 1/2 acre plots cannot simply be limited to commercial enterprise. If you've been to Mount Vernon, you know how beautiful the estate and surrounding wooded area is... If you've been to the GW Gristmill a couple miles down the road, you can't help but be impressed... Until you see the bordering 100 unit rowhouse development. Tax greedy Fairfax did that, and how much longer will it be until they encroach even more? I would really like to be in location that I could have more than one way to work. Or more accurately, a way that did not take me past an exit to the interstate which gets choked to death with cages every night. But that would mean living nearer to that mess of traffic, which I just can't abide. There can't be public transportation everywhere, and we aren't all going to live in pre-fab cluster communities. Is the solution 600,000 dollar + homes where the homeless hobos used to camp out? Probably not. Is it "affordable housing" (translated - public subsidized slums )? probably not. More asphalt? well... it would mean more area to ride... Maybe we should consider license restrictions for rude driving cagers... Restrictions on the number of wheels on their vehicles that is... Force them to use 2 wheelers for a couple years for their misdeeds and see how they like being on the receiving end of a rude SUV driver... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 13:55:00 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:54:50 -0500 Mark are you kidding? Have you left the DC city limits? There is a ton of open space. The population density for the US is 31 people per sq km. Some countrys are like 300-14000 people per sq km. I can leave my place in Rockville and in 15 minutes be in the midle of farm land and lots of open spaces. It's crowded in Metro DC yes, but not so much anywhere else (no including other large metro areas). But if you stay in the DC city limits you should be all by yourself soon since DC and North Dakota are the only place in the US losing population. Rob On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 06:41:16 -0800 (PST), Mark Kitchell wrote > I understand that, I really do. Sometimes I hate > living in a city. > > BUt....lets be real. This is not sustainable. If we > don't start living closer together there will be NO > skyline drive in 50 years.... > > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > > >Yes but his BANNANA comment is valid. Everyone > > needs > > >a home on .5 acre with big sidewalks, flat shopping > > >centers, etc. Building further and further out > > away > > >from existing public transport, existing schools, > > etc. > > > > [Dave] No, it's not. If city goin' is such a hot > > ticket, > > why to all the bikers not ride into the city? Why > > do they > > migrate to Skyline drive and similar destinations? > > > > I like living close to Walmart, but I wouldn't want > > to live > > next door to it. > > Dave Yates > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 14:55:44 2004 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:56:03 -0500 From: skip To: Rob Sharp CC: Mark Kitchell , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.718, required 6, AWL -1.72) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX Rob Sharp wrote: > > But if you stay in the DC city limits you should be all by yourself soon since > DC and North Dakota are the only place in the US losing population. and there's good reason for both. --skip Fairfax county has more people than the entire state of North Dakota. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 9 15:16:26 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=W+OF5jVQsfx1di+7WVYDKgNc7fPu0Wb0QfL6nrHLa9Jat/Q97JfVPfs8PmapN66y3yUKFlkvRBZewhh4DIHHWVDy5YgM8DT2rKB1heBZYpWmJ7JjBytIA3Tb7LJ3eR6cDD4X87DpKRv6zLywXYEoHPSwSUMcQQLyPrtmDEK+Z8s= Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:16:19 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Lane Splitting On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:16:59 -0800 (PST), Leon Begeman wrote: > --- David Blumgart wrote: > > Perhaps I'm a total minority, but I wouldn't lane > > split if it were legal. > > So don't. Just because something is legal, doesn't > mean that it's required. > > In the 5 years since I've started working downtown, I > can remember two people who objected to my splitting > lanes. Has anyone had a cager lane-share or filter on you? I have. Doesn't bother me, unless they cut me off after doing it or get a little too close. I'll even scoot over a bit to the left at red signals, so right-turning cagers can slip by to my right and make their turns. I call it "getting along," as the dimensions of our vehicles permit. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 01:35:28 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "David Blumgart" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lane Splitting Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 01:35:07 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 16:09:52 -0500, you wrote: >Rob Sharp wrote: >>> In an effort to even further de-rail this thread. > >>> We need lane spliting!!!! > >Perhaps I'm a total minority, but I wouldn't lane split if it were legal. Nothing pisses off Americans more where are you from? and how do you feel qualified on speaking on what pisses off american drivers? I lane split as often as viable. Not many get pissed off with rare exceptions. (one was a lady who actually bumped my rear wheel, made me drop the bike, got 3 tickets and her insurance paid me four grand on a bike that i paid 2 grand for). Lane splitting is a way of cutting down on traffic. DC has a really bad " don't block the block " problem. If a bike can filter up to the front and let cars move forward, and let the last cars clear the intersection, then more power to everyone. There's another benefit of lane splitting as well, you start off at the light in front.. this means there are no cars to ride beside you or in front of you, meaning there are less angles you can be hit from. Danny " Lane splitting - benifits everyone " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 01:36:05 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 01:35:52 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- >I wonder how he saw the license plate from there...there are several >aspects of the current reports here that aren't adding up very well. >Something's missing someplace... yes i agree. I assumed he was on the hood for x amount of time, fell off and got the tag number. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 08:15:31 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:15:24 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Lane Splitting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >where are you from? > >and how do you feel qualified on speaking on what pisses off >american drivers? > > >I lane split as often as viable. Not many get pissed off >with rare exceptions. (one was a lady who actually bumped >my rear wheel, made me drop the bike, got 3 tickets and her >insurance paid me four grand >on a bike that i paid 2 grand for). > >Lane splitting is a way of cutting down on traffic. DC has >a really bad " don't block the block " problem. If a bike >can filter up to the front and let cars move forward, and >let the last cars clear the intersection, then more power to >everyone. > [Dave] How magnanimous of you to cut in front of everyone else so that one last cage can clear the block! What a selfless act of kindness. >There's another benefit of lane splitting as well, you >start off atthe light in front.. this means there are no >cars to ride beside you or in front of you, meaning there >are less angles you can be hit from. [Dave] This is 100% statistically correct, but it's only a benefit to a bike which is faster, and a rider who is willing to take off and accelerate faster than the other traffic. I say this because it is a common occurrance that someone jump to the unoccupied lane at a light, seemingly if for no other purpose than to preclude others from having it. I've found that 3 out of 4 times, this last minute jumper goes slower than the surrounding traffic. >Danny >" Lane splitting - benifits everyone " [Dave] I want to know where you shop, because basket splitting also benefits everyone. You just console yourself that me cutting in front of you in the grocery line with my basket of less than ten items is going to help YOU in the long run. It's going to let the fat woman with 2 full baskets of oreos & potato chips move up behind you, and clear the main aisle. This is to YOUR benefit. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 08:31:13 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Lane Splitting Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:35:04 -0500 Leon Begeman wrote: > In the 5 years since I've started working downtown, I > can remember two people who objected to my splitting lanes. [Carl]: I don't regularly lane split but agree with Leon. I've never had an adverse reaction except one time in Tennessee. * Paul Wondered: Has anyone had a cager lane-share or filter on you? I have. [Carl]: Yup, and I've even invited cagers (by waving my arm) to come along side if I'm in the right lane and they have a turn signal on. Wilson Proposed: "I call it "getting along," as the dimensions of our vehicles permit." [Carl]: Aye, courtesy is contagious. Rudeness is a plague. Yates brought up an earlier thread regarding putting rude drivers on two wheels. "You know" that's probably way ahead of our State Legislators' pusillanimous wills. They are politicians after all. But, this is as good a time to start as any. Contact your State representatives and recommend that rude, "aggressive", or intoxicated driers be restricted to driving vehicles less than 3000 pounds for at least one year. Repeat offenders get the maximum vehicle weight halved. Third time it's two wheels. Make 'em wear an international orange and green sash or put an orange and green stripe on the vehicle to separate them from we "good guys". (Or whatever you think) E-mail a letter (or three) to the papers. Start proposing that now and maybe in five or ten years a lot of people will believe it's a "Good Idea". The Maryland General Assembly convenes next month. Some committees have already begun working. Preach to the choir here on DCCycles if you must for our entertainment, but also let your representative know your needs and beliefs. Here's how to find 'em; Carl in Bethesda *The Tennessee event was a hot day headed north on I-81. Traffic was creeping and it was steenking' hot in my 'Stich. So, I began lane splitting at maybe 20 MPH. As I passed one pickup, the driver hollered something. I though he called me a communist so I stopped and waited for him to creep up believing we could sing the chorus to the "Internationale". Instead he said I kain't do that (lane splitting). I replied that Tennessee law permits motorcycles to lane split when traffic is stopped to prevent them from overheating**. He replied that he didn't like that law so, I encouraged him to contact his State representatives and make his views known. That cheered him up and I went on my way. Oh another Tennessee event the next year on I-81. I started to lane split between two trucks; the one on the right had about a half mile of clear lane ahead of him. As I began to creep forward, the right truck began closing the gap - I could see the driver grinning in his mirror. So, I stopped and went around his right. Went to the next overpass, stopped in the shade, unzipped my 'Stitch and took a 20 minute nap. Refreshed, I passed the pair on the left this time. ** I had heard something like that law pertaining to another State and was amazed how well it flowed off my tongue. Oh how well the road to Hell is paved. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 08:43:39 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=AL6yuxJ/RpPerk1kxn7qUIBtLXIr66/EbVRGnQIGbnow10My8/e96u9zFcmjjTK/Hy3PXjCgR9IBmi9j/nG79tiZtmE9zh2uY1HErf9Kf78bq4ulo5V8fNTlXnfWeiss/9wXgzYWtWO4K/PqMbpVnRY7KmWvhtTwX02ywcmOor8= ; Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:43:17 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Lane Splitting To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > > [Dave] This is 100% statistically correct, but it's > only a > benefit to a bike which is faster, and a rider who > is willing > to take off and accelerate faster than the other > traffic. I > say this because it is a common occurrance that > someone jump > to the unoccupied lane at a light, seemingly if for > no other > purpose than to preclude others from having it. > I've found > that 3 out of 4 times, this last minute jumper goes > slower > than the surrounding traffic. > > No shit, one of my pet peeves. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 08:43:43 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:43:40 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Lane Splitting To: "'DCCycles'" Custer took a stand: >Yates .banish rude cagers to 2 wheels...."You know" that's >probably way ahead of our State Legislators' pusillanimous >wills. They are politicians after all. But, this is as >good a time to start as any. > [Dave] pusillanimous... there's one you don't hear every day... >Contact your State representatives and recommend that >rude, "aggressive", or intoxicated driers be restricted to >driving vehicles less than 3000 pounds for at least one >year. Repeat offenders get the maximum vehicle weight >halved. Third time it's two wheels. Make 'em wear an >international orange and green sash or put an orange and >green stripe on the vehicle to separate them from we "good >guys". (Or whatever you think) E-mail a letter >(or three) to the papers. > >Start proposing that now and maybe in five or ten years a >lot of people will believe it's a "Good Idea". >The Maryland General Assembly convenes next month. Some >committees have already begun working. > >Preach to the choir here on DCCycles if you must for our >entertainment, but also let your representative know your >needs and beliefs. Here's how to >find 'em; > > [Dave] I say sentence them to a Moped for a year, with "Time on a real bike ( and that is not a Harley )" for good behavior. After 3 months of complaint free driving, they can move up to 400cc's. After 6 more months of complaint free driving, 500cc's. I'm not sure I like the idea of still letting them drive a cage without some exigent medical condition prohibiting it. There's always public transport... well, not always...;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 09:59:46 2004 Subject: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:59:44 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DCCycles" So...I have been toying around with the idea of buying my first totally new bike. I have the model in mind. I have the MSRP $8,500. I will get the blue book value on my current bike and have done some research. The first places I talked to quoted me $9050.00 out the door, title, tax, tags, set-up fees. My question to you lot (a british expression with good will intended) is what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 item, how much room is there to play? Is it reasonable to expect to pay below MSRP for a new model year bike that is hard to get? Apart from calling other dealers and seeing what they come up with is there anything I am overlooking? The reason I ask here, is because of my experience with new car buying. Ultimately all the haggling in the world even on an item that goes for $27, 000.00 ended up saving me $600.00 of which I was happy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 10:18:18 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:37:01 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DCCycles Subject: Re: Advice on buying a new bike On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > My question to you lot (a british expression with good will intended) is > what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 item, how much room is > there to play? Is it reasonable to expect to pay below MSRP for a new > model year bike that is hard to get? Apart from calling other dealers > and seeing what they come up with is there anything I am overlooking? It depends on the model, availability and the time of the year. I was able to negotiate a little more than $1000 off MSRP on my Hayabusa. > The reason I ask here, is because of my experience with new car buying. > Ultimately all the haggling in the world even on an item that goes for > $27, 000.00 ended up saving me $600.00 of which I was happy Again, it really depends on the car. On a couple of recent purchases, I've got $7000, $5000 and $4000 off MSRP. 2 purchases this year and 1 in '03. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 10:31:15 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:30:00 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Advice on buying a new bike To: DCCycles >So...I have been toying around with the idea of buying my >first totally new bike. I have the model in mind. I have >the MSRP $8,500. I will get the blue book value on my >current bike and have done some research. >The first places I talked to quoted me $9050.00 out the >door, title, tax, tags, set-up fees. > [Dave] Didn't you just wad a bike? Overcooking a turn, right? >My question to you lot (a british expression with good will >intended) is what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 >item, how much room is there to play? Is it reasonable to >expect to pay below MSRP for a new model year bike that is >hard to get? [Dave] G.I.G.O. Garbage in, Garbage out. If you don't try to negotiate, or you don't negotiate well period, then there isn't much room. If you're a good bargainer, they you can knock some $$$ off MSRP ... Unless you're trying to buy a new HD, in which case you might need to pay that silly "dealer added profit" due to their --- call it what you will... The demand of the model will also play a big part as Wayne pointed out. If you're trying for a new R1, gsxr1k, zx10, expect close to MSRP, because they know those bikes will sell regardless. Shop around, get the best price you can, then give the local guys a chance to match or beat. If they won't do it, take your money elsewhere. > Apart from calling other dealers >and seeing what they come up with is there anything I am >overlooking? [Dave] Experience? Riding school? just asking... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 10:36:52 2004 Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:36:48 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Dave Yates" , "DCCycles" I did not "wad" a bike. I took a turn too fast and made the wrong decision. I had to replace a turning signal and I had a cracked front fairing that I replaced with a spare front fairing I got of e-bay. What this has to do with buying a new bike I am not quite sure. As for riding school, the name is Cornerspeed and that is scheduled for next spring. I don't know that I want a litre bike just yet.I am still getting tremendous enjoyment out of my 600cc machine. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Yates [mailto:Dave@XXXXXX] To: DCCycles Subject: Re: Advice on buying a new bike >So...I have been toying around with the idea of buying my first totally >new bike. I have the model in mind. I have the MSRP $8,500. I will >get the blue book value on my current bike and have done some research. >The first places I talked to quoted me $9050.00 out the door, title, >tax, tags, set-up fees. > [Dave] Didn't you just wad a bike? Overcooking a turn, right? >My question to you lot (a british expression with good will >intended) is what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 >item, how much room is there to play? Is it reasonable to >expect to pay below MSRP for a new model year bike that is >hard to get? [Dave] G.I.G.O. Garbage in, Garbage out. If you don't try to negotiate, or you don't negotiate well period, then there isn't much room. If you're a good bargainer, they you can knock some $$$ off MSRP ... Unless you're trying to buy a new HD, in which case you might need to pay that silly "dealer added profit" due to their --- call it what you will... The demand of the model will also play a big part as Wayne pointed out. If you're trying for a new R1, gsxr1k, zx10, expect close to MSRP, because they know those bikes will sell regardless. Shop around, get the best price you can, then give the local guys a chance to match or beat. If they won't do it, take your money elsewhere. > Apart from calling other dealers >and seeing what they come up with is there anything I am >overlooking? [Dave] Experience? Riding school? just asking... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 10:39:21 2004 Subject: Three bikes, one driver Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:39:19 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Bcc: Hey all... Need some help figuring something out here. I have a buyer for my FZ1. Unfortunately, he's in Atlanta. Fortunately, I have to drive down to Florida to take another bike to my nephew. Fortunately, I have a truck. Unfortunately, it'll only hold one bike in the bed, so I'm going to have tow the other. And... If I'm gonna take a trailer, I might as well take my FJR while I'm at it so I can get some good riding in some Florida weather when I get there. :) So... I need a cheap source for a two or three bike trailer for about a week. U-Haul has apparently stopped renting their motorcycle-specific trailer, and I think it only carried one bike anyway. I've rented trailers from other place for a day or so and most of them have been junk that I wouldn't trust to carry two bikes to Florida. I don't anyone I can borrow a trailer from, and I'd have a hard time asking anyway due to the miles that I'll be putting on it. Has anyone found a good place to rent a trailer from that's reasonably cheap for a weekly rate? Ideally, I'd like to drop the trailer off in Florida so I can save some gas on the way back (I'll have gotten rid of the FZ1 and the other one by then and can put the FJR in the bed for the return trip home. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 10:58:13 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:58:00 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike To: DCCycles JH: > I did not "wad" a bike. I took a turn too fast and made >the wrong decision. [Dave] Ok, point taken. > I had to replace a turning signal and I had a cracked front >fairing that I replaced with a spare front fairing I got of >e-bay. What this has to do with buying a new bike I am not >quite sure. [Dave] next to nothing. Aside from the fact that a similar wrong decision will cost you exponentially more on a new bike. >As for riding school, the name is Cornerspeed and that is >scheduled for next spring. I don't know that I want a litre >bike just yet.I am still getting tremendous enjoyment out of >my 600cc machine. [Dave] Excellent. Somebody grab this soapbox from me? I apologize for stepping over the smart-ass line in my previous response. Far be it from me to pontificate about a fellow rider... ok, sometimes it's not so far from me... And this was one of those times. My comments were less constructive than they should've been. Nevertheless, don't let the error of my previous remarks cloud the thought which I intended to convey- think about it first. If you decide not to do it, there are plenty of moto-goodies you can buy still... If you decide to buy new (check the insurance), also good. HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 11:01:08 2004 Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:01:07 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" Dicker with them. It's winter, it's wet, it's cold, it's gonna snow. They'll have a few Christmas sales, but not much else, so they'll deal if you hang in there. At worst, get them to toss in some free gear, a service plan, or something. As for the choice of bike... I can honestly say that my old YZF 600 was by far the most "fun" bike I've ever had. But... With the distance I do, I needed something bigger, more "upright" and with more room on it. The FZ1 fit the bill and so does the FJR. Consider what you want to do with it. If most of your riding is going to be a half-day trip up to Shenandoah for some twisty riding, stick with the 600 class... They're hella fun (and I hear that the new R6 is "freaky insane fun". :) If you're planning many more trips like your Canada one, I'd recommend going up to a liter bike, preferably a "naked" that's not got quite the aggressive stance that the super-sports do. If you do... Keep in mind that you'd have to be a VERY good rider to keep up with a 600 supersport in the twisties. Of course, you'll destroy them off the line and in the straights. Determine what you want the bike for, then decide on one that fits. Of course, that's just my opinion. To each his own. --smthng > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:00 AM > To: DCCycles > Subject: Advice on buying a new bike > > > So...I have been toying around with the idea of buying my > first totally new bike. I have the model in mind. I have the > MSRP $8,500. I will get the blue book value on my current > bike and have done some research. > The first places I talked to quoted me $9050.00 out the door, > title, tax, tags, set-up fees. > > My question to you lot (a british expression with good will > intended) is what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 > item, how much room is there to play? Is it reasonable to > expect to pay below MSRP for a new model year bike that is > hard to get? Apart from calling other dealers and seeing > what they come up with is there anything I am overlooking? > The reason I ask here, is because of my experience with new > car buying. > Ultimately all the haggling in the world even on an item that > goes for $27, 000.00 ended up saving me $600.00 of which I was happy > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 11:11:27 2004 Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:11:24 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , "DCCycles" Well, in a perfect financial world, I would get a bike for long distance touring as well. My R6 was mostly comfortable for my trip up to Canada. Apart from adopting a few unorthodox riding positions near the end and an achy knee and back I found it no problem and the mild destruction my tourmaster set up wrought on my rear fairing, I was fine. I would like more mileage though. I remember my anxiety attack in some town in NJ when I could not find a gas station to save my life and was on fumes! Where did you buy your new ride from again? -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan W. Kalmes [mailto:jkalmes@XXXXXX] To: DCCycles Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Dicker with them. It's winter, it's wet, it's cold, it's gonna snow. They'll have a few Christmas sales, but not much else, so they'll deal if you hang in there. At worst, get them to toss in some free gear, a service plan, or something. As for the choice of bike... I can honestly say that my old YZF 600 was by far the most "fun" bike I've ever had. But... With the distance I do, I needed something bigger, more "upright" and with more room on it. The FZ1 fit the bill and so does the FJR. Consider what you want to do with it. If most of your riding is going to be a half-day trip up to Shenandoah for some twisty riding, stick with the 600 class... They're hella fun (and I hear that the new R6 is "freaky insane fun". :) If you're planning many more trips like your Canada one, I'd recommend going up to a liter bike, preferably a "naked" that's not got quite the aggressive stance that the super-sports do. If you do... Keep in mind that you'd have to be a VERY good rider to keep up with a 600 supersport in the twisties. Of course, you'll destroy them off the line and in the straights. Determine what you want the bike for, then decide on one that fits. Of course, that's just my opinion. To each his own. --smthng > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:00 AM > To: DCCycles > Subject: Advice on buying a new bike > > > So...I have been toying around with the idea of buying my first > totally new bike. I have the model in mind. I have the MSRP $8,500. > I will get the blue book value on my current bike and have done some > research. > The first places I talked to quoted me $9050.00 out the door, title, > tax, tags, set-up fees. > > My question to you lot (a british expression with good will > intended) is what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 item, how > much room is there to play? Is it reasonable to expect to pay below > MSRP for a new model year bike that is hard to get? Apart from > calling other dealers and seeing what they come up with is there > anything I am overlooking? > The reason I ask here, is because of my experience with new car > buying. > Ultimately all the haggling in the world even on an item that goes for > $27, 000.00 ended up saving me $600.00 of which I was happy > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 11:26:47 2004 Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:26:47 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" > Where did you buy your new ride from again? Er... Coleman Powersports. But... I wouldn't recommend them on anything other than price. The ONLY reason I bought from them is because they were the ONLY ones who could get the FJR (it's a special order bike and Yamaha has some really weird ways of handling it). If you want to know why, shoot me a message off-list and I can give you the whole scoop on my horror stories with them. All I have to say is that when they saw me ride away on my FJR, they can count on it being the last time they ever see it. Personally, I'd recommend Champion Motorsports in Herndon or, if you want to consider switching to something other than Yamaha, Manassas Honda is a decent dealer (they don't sell or service Yamaha). --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 11:43:41 2004 Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:43:38 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" - I'll leave the soapboxing to others... Haven't had enough coffee yet. :P > If you decide to buy new (check the insurance), also good. That reminds me... I seem to recall you (Julian) having, uh, "monetary issues" at times. Insurance could be a big factor in your decision. A "not-quite-supersport" will be HELLA cheaper to insure than a supersport. Hell, my FZ1 (1000cc) is cheaper to insure than my YZF 600 was, and that's a 400cc difference! What's really "odd" in my opinion is that my FJR is cheaper than both of them, in spite of the amount of plastic on it (full fairing and then some) and the engine size (1300). I'm sure it's because of the market that the FJR hits being a lot more careful than the markets for the others, but still... That's a lot of bike and it's not cheap. I would have expected it to be about the same. Go figure. So, get a couple of insurance quotes on some models your thinking of. You could be talking about several hundred dollars of difference for full insurance. That would definitely be influencing my choice. It's entirely possible that the difference will easily be great enough to cover all maintenance PLUS modifications... YEARLY! Of course... Sometimes it's worth it to pay for fun. :) --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 11:43:53 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:34:31 -0500 To: daniel.dc@XXXXXX, "David Blumgart" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Lane Splitting Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:35 AM 12/10/04 -0500, daniel.dc@XXXXXX wrote: >Lane splitting is a way of cutting down on traffic. DC has a really >bad " don't block the block " problem. If a bike can filter up to >the front and let cars move forward, and let the last cars clear the >intersection, then more power to everyone. The proper solution to that issue is for everyone to obey the traffic laws. Part of doing so is not to pull into an intersection you don't have room to leave. Failure to follow that rule should get you an "obstructing traffic" citation...but almost never does, hence the widespread violations. I suspect that many drivers aren't even aware that what they are doing is illegal, since they didn't get very good training and have never been cited. Terminology clarification seems needed again. Last time this came up it was pointed out that "lane splitting" and "filtering" are very different practices. One might be ok, and even legal in some states (such as California), the other is illegal everywhere, as well as being stupid in the extreme. Filtering is what you are talking about...moving up through stopped traffic at a light, and then taking off faster than the cars are able to, thus slowing down nobody and creating slightly better traffic flow for all. This is legal in California and perhaps other places...though it isn't anywhere I know of in the D.C. area. Lane splitting is passing between moving cars that are in adjacent lanes...i.e. passing completely illegally, and in a manner that seriously endangers the rider as well as other road users. This is just stupid, and would probably startle and enrage anyone with any sense (which would not tend to include anyone who would do such a thing). As for filtering angering other road users, I agree that it probably would in areas where it isn't legal...same as doing other things that are illegal tends to piss people off. I base this on being an American driver in an area where it isn't legal, and 30 years of driving experience as such, as well as having discussed it with numerous other drivers. In areas where it is legal, and the public has been educated about it, this is less likely to be a problem. >There's another benefit of lane splitting as well, you start off at >the light in front.. this means there are no cars to ride beside you >or in front of you, meaning there are less angles you can be hit from. Disadvantages include being the first one through the intersection on green...making you a great target for the idiot pushing too far into the yellow trying to make it through before red with a burst of speed...and blowing it completely. You also have no lane to be in when you get to the front...cars are usually pulled right up to, or even a bit over, the intersection entrance point. That means you either end up blocking the crosswalk or you sit between lanes, or even hang out into the intersection (potential ticket if nothing else). Sitting between lanes isn't a big problem so long as you take off faster than the vehicles next to you. With a sport bike, a good rider who's paying close attention, and no failures either mechanical or biological, no problem. Any failures anywhere and you could end up with the cars taking off before you, which would be bad...now you are either getting passed with no lane to be in (watch out for the truck mirrors), or you are racing people across the intersection, rather than leading or following them. Safety margins are reduced all over the place. Is getting where you are going a few minutes sooner really worth the risk? What's wrong with getting to ride a little longer? I've driven in LA, and seen bikes filtering there. The streets were really wide, with generous lane widths, very open intersections so you could see cross traffic easily. Didn't look even a little bit like D.C....I wonder if that's part of the reason filtering is legal in LA, but not here? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 13:26:59 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=yMIJAwH0yyHrinwM4lrxwFhW8IIlStURSunJY7Lo30vRjv7aDr8pktPer5cCJrA7KAJMkfkiP4OCQK8HcpGt1UJH2bd+boshQrRaTnuA8PjSNZdmg3eMKEZuxUIie8epOsp9udLHEUPUdcKonHdiUsaRNC2AM+LrlBJ+zYzsTqQ= ; Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > That reminds me... I seem to recall you (Julian) > having, uh, "monetary > issues" at times. Insurance could be a big factor > in your decision. A > "not-quite-supersport" will be HELLA cheaper to > insure than a > supersport. Hell, my FZ1 (1000cc) is cheaper to > insure than my YZF 600 > was, and that's a 400cc difference! What's really > "odd" in my opinion > is that my FJR is cheaper than both of them, in > spite of the amount of > plastic on it (full fairing and then some) and the > engine size (1300). > I'm sure it's because of the market that the FJR > hits being a lot more > careful than the markets for the others, but > still... That's a lot of > bike and it's not cheap. I would have expected it > to be about the same. > Go figure. > Depends on the insurance company. State Farm and Farmers go by CC, not type of bike. In that case your FZ1 would cost more then the YZF600. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 13:36:02 2004 Subject: RE: Insurance (was advice on new...) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:35:58 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > > I would have expected it to be about the > > same. > > Go figure. > > > Depends on the insurance company. State Farm and Farmers go > by CC, not type of bike. In that case your > FZ1 would cost more then the YZF600. While that may be mostly true, I don't think it's entirely accurate. I traded in my 1100cc Shadow and got the FZ1. State Farm was happy to more than double my insurance when I did that! After fighting with them for two weeks, I pulled ALL of our policies from them and went over to Gieco. I've been happy with them so far and they end up giving me a better rate every time I call them. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 13:54:42 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kpDDamtHDZZmwhxwtHGboYwPFx+Hq37oIcuJ2N6decb4fyYH8sMgaNTyi+TFvnF0B10pbwX0i3JcEBLenfdxo/nY7CDp69QNmu5Ftufb5NBAPltBJm0Y8WWjUxxgClFZTI9ThZkwFCKTYyB6Jym/3JQY1IZQxfBwPYpF3/hEkek= ; Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:54:39 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Insurance (was advice on new...) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ewe, sorry to hear that. Hope you never have to file a claim! GEICO, the anti-christ of insurance. Glenn --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" wrote: , I pulled ALL of our policies from > them and went over to > Gieco. I've been happy with them so far and they > end up giving me a > better rate every time I call them. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 14:32:16 2004 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Speaking of FJR's... Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:31:40 -0500 There was one left on the shoulder of the Westbound Toll Road before the main plaza when I drove by this AM. Anyone on the list? Need any help? I'll be going back by there later. Just thought I'd ask. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" Subject: RE: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:26:47 -0500 > Where did you buy your new ride from again? Er... Coleman Powersports. But... I wouldn't recommend them on anything other than price. The ONLY reason I bought from them is because they were the ONLY ones who could get the FJR (it's a special order bike and Yamaha has some really weird ways of handling it). If you want to know why, shoot me a message off-list and I can give you the whole scoop on my horror stories with them. All I have to say is that when they saw me ride away on my FJR, they can count on it being the last time they ever see it. Personally, I'd recommend Champion Motorsports in Herndon or, if you want to consider switching to something other than Yamaha, Manassas Honda is a decent dealer (they don't sell or service Yamaha). --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 14:48:16 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 14:48:08 -0500 To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Insurance (was advice on new...) At 01:35 PM 12/10/04 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >for two weeks, I pulled ALL of our policies from them and went over to >Gieco. I've been happy with them so far and they end up giving me a >better rate every time I call them. I once had Geico...then they started pouring money into lobbying for mandatory helmet laws and I decided I didn't want any of my money being used for that, so I stopped sending it to them. I've got USAA now, and I like them just fine...both car/bike and home insurance. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 18:15:15 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:14:02 -0500 If you're buying an '04 you can probably get a chunk knocked off. I bought a '02 SVS leftover in March of '03 and had more than 1k knocked off. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: DCCycles >Subject: Re: Advice on buying a new bike >Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:37:01 -0500 (EST) > >On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > > > My question to you lot (a british expression with good will intended) is > > what's up with buying a new bike? On a $8500.00 item, how much room is > > there to play? Is it reasonable to expect to pay below MSRP for a new > > model year bike that is hard to get? Apart from calling other dealers > > and seeing what they come up with is there anything I am overlooking? > > >It depends on the model, availability and the time of the year. I was >able to negotiate a little more than $1000 off MSRP on my Hayabusa. > > > > The reason I ask here, is because of my experience with new car buying. > > Ultimately all the haggling in the world even on an item that goes for > > $27, 000.00 ended up saving me $600.00 of which I was happy > > >Again, it really depends on the car. On a couple of recent purchases, >I've got $7000, $5000 and $4000 off MSRP. 2 purchases this year and 1 in >'03. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 20:42:19 2004 From: "Lisa Goddard" To: , "DC Cycles" , Subject: was Advice on buying a new bike, now track schools Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:42:00 -0500 Subject:Advice on buying a new bike Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 10:36:48 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Dave Yates" "DCCycles" g> I did not "wad" a bike. I took a turn too fast and made the wrong decision. I had to replace a turning signal and I had a cracked front fairing that I replaced with a spare front fairing I got of e-bay. What this has to do with buying a new bike I am not quite sure. As for riding school, the name is Cornerspeed and that is scheduled for next spring. Cornerspeed is an excellent decision. Aaron runs a good show and I am sure you will enjoy it. Will the class be on VIR Grand? I agree, you did not wad the bike. If your email cohorts would like to see a wadded bike I am sure I could produce a photo or two of wadded bikes. I had an incident earlier this year that involved me, my gixxer, BeaveRun, turn 7 and 85+ mph... and I don't consider the bike wadded as I used it for at least 15 more track days after that Memorial day event. To me, the term wadded implies completely unrideable and unusable, headed for parts and Ebay. Lisa Goddard '95 VFR, '97 GSXR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 21:39:37 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rsNrlOLa6s+ZmtKa4eGf8txNlJjuX/2+T7EGGcRr48ypO2W16hkAQf5xq2vlxFGKqsG9fduj0swCKfZRq9MT4RD4TaiqlHL78VjtzkunhvA/YyTtte7EuWuaJWRKi59v0pGTmulbXV+Rg2hcdjkVS9HGQ5PGc/tscUcctMEdRX4= Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 20:39:26 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Papa home , Thomas Jordan Subject: American-built MotoGP platform? (!) http://www.motoczysz.com/movie.html?1#.htm This thing is sweeeeet - I hope they get it off the ground. I believe Cycle World and Roadracing World both have write-ups in their January issues. -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 21:50:06 2004 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 21:52:31 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Lisa Goddard CC: julian@XXXXXX, DC Cycles , dave@XXXXXX Subject: Re: was Advice on buying a new bike, now track schools Cornerspeed is an excellent decision. Aaron runs a good show and I am sure >you will enjoy it. Will the class be on VIR Grand? > > > > Lisa is right. Cornerspeed is an excellent school and you will love it. Aaron is awesome, and so are his instructors. I didn't read much about your incident, but you will learn on the track and in Aaron's school that the bike is far more capable than we are. You may look back and say "if I only had..." But that's what riding is about...keeping on learning. And by taking a school, you are taking a big step in the right direction that many never even attempt. Kudos! Warmest regards, Laura Roach www.speedwerks.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 10 22:29:45 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Lane Splitting Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 22:29:08 -0500 daniel.dc@XXXXXX related: . . .snip There's another benefit of lane splitting as well, you start off at the light in front.. this means there are no cars to ride beside you or in front of you, meaning there are less angles you can be hit from. ---------- Almost "oops'ed" a few days ago in a like situation. Was at the line (headed south on 21st at M NW) with two cars to the right of me after filtering to the front. The light greened, I j u s t started into the xtion, and Wow! A jogger came late across the car on the right and in front of me with about 3 inches to spare. Had I jumped rather than eased out, blood would have been drawn from what looked like an indigent student. Were my words daggers, also blood. Added to the huge 'amazing hazards" list. Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > I'm glad you saw him, I sure didn't Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 08:11:01 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:10:46 EST Subject: American Super Camp To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well, for those of you who are thinking about doing the American Super Camp in Harrington, DE in April, you might want to book now. After my booking goes through, there should only be 4 spots open. _www.americansupercamp.com_ (http://www.americansupercamp.com) Also, anyone know exactly where in Harrington this is being held? Recommendations on where to stay? Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 08:59:12 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:58:55 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Where was everyone? Went for a nice ride yesterday. Not as long as during the summer, but it was nice to get out for a while. Just out to Poolesville, up 109 to Comus, then over to 355 and south again...about 45 miles or so. Funny thing is that I didn't see a single other bike out...what's up? Same ride in August would have had me passing at least a dozen bikes, probably more. It was a nice day, where was everyone? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 09:48:52 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:50:40 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: American Super Camp ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: >Well, for those of you who are thinking about doing the American Super Camp >in Harrington, DE in April, you might want to book now. After my booking >goes through, there should only be 4 spots open. _www.americansupercamp.com_ >(http://www.americansupercamp.com) Also, anyone know exactly where in >Harrington this is being held? Recommendations on where to stay? > >Scooter > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 09:52:15 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Ixi0Ctt1wlMuljd3PJ8zadtlhjmiII/iKu6DdbmzGGLim/jNTso3Q2UiMy2DaR0w74yQ5Rb1Tcf6QODossMPi16CeNKefHtf4fasTyQHugNSy45iDmn5tDWjyqdKIJ0FHIRhZSwKs36Yqcykfse+E9IIFiBJb0VplgbOx5yUkPA= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 08:52:07 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: American Super Camp Wow, Laura . . . tell us how you really feel! :) On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:50:40 -0500, Laura Roach wrote: -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 09:53:03 2004 From: "Bruce N" To: , Subject: Re: American Super Camp Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:43:44 -0500 I just signed up! I've always wanted to do this. Thanks for reminding me Scooter. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Subject: American Super Camp > Well, for those of you who are thinking about doing the American Super > Camp > in Harrington, DE in April, you might want to book now. After my booking > goes through, there should only be 4 spots open. > _www.americansupercamp.com_ > (http://www.americansupercamp.com) Also, anyone know exactly where in > Harrington this is being held? Recommendations on where to stay? > > Scooter > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 09:54:54 2004 Subject: A Rider's brunch! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:54:49 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: In the spirit of god old-fashioned holiday get togethers: A Riders Brunch Time: December 19th, 11:45 AM Location: The Irish Inn Glen Echo, MD The Irish Inn 6119 Tulane Ave. Glen Echo, MD 301-229-6600 Great food, reasonably priced. Lots of parking and a chance to catch up and share your latest two wheeled adventures. Here is a review for the curious: http://www.washingtonian.com/dining/Profiles/irishinn.html I hope to see everyone there!!!! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:00:02 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:02:03 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Sean Jordan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: American Super Camp Sean Jordan wrote: >Wow, Laura . . . tell us how you really feel! > >:) > >On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:50:40 -0500, Laura Roach wrote: > > > That's too funny, I replied and it disappeared when I changed my identity. Ok, what I was saying so quietly was you guys will love that school. it's held at the Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. It's about ten minutes south of where Brian and I live in Dover. There is one hotel in Harrington, but I can't remember the name. There are many hotels in Dover. :) You guys will have a blast! LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:17:13 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:16:56 EST Subject: Re: American Super Camp To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Apparently cat (dog?) got her tongue. :-)BÞ - - - Scooter In a message dated 12/13/2004 9:52:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, seanjordan23@XXXXXX writes: Wow, Laura . . . tell us how you really feel! :) On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:50:40 -0500, Laura Roach wrote: -- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:27:10 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:26:56 EST Subject: Re: American Super Camp To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX According to yellowpages.com, there are two. There's a Holiday Inn Express (~$95 per night) and the Americinn Harrington (~$110 per night). Anyone care to split a room? Ride/drive up together? I was thinking of heading there Thursday night and coming back after class on Saturday. Scooter In a message dated 12/13/2004 10:00:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, laura@XXXXXX writes: Sean Jordan wrote: >Wow, Laura . . . tell us how you really feel! > >:) > >On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:50:40 -0500, Laura Roach wrote: > That's too funny, I replied and it disappeared when I changed my identity. Ok, what I was saying so quietly was you guys will love that school. it's held at the Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. It's about ten minutes south of where Brian and I live in Dover. There is one hotel in Harrington, but I can't remember the name. There are many hotels in Dover. :) You guys will have a blast! LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:28:30 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:18:28 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: A Rider's brunch! At 09:54 AM 12/13/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > >In the spirit of god old-fashioned holiday get togethers: Ummm...there's no tent or snakes involved in this, is there? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:32:40 2004 Subject: RE: A Rider's brunch! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:32:36 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Mike Bartman" , You have to allow for one typo on a Monday morning! Great weekend for riding these past two off-days. I got to test out my new Icon patrol gloves (cold weather gear) and my fog city adhesive on my visor. The gloves are good, your hands still get icy but not to the point of unpleasantness. I shall update my report on them in January. As for the fog city doo-dad...apart from slight light distortion, the thing keeps my visor crystal clear. Now If I could only get it to shut all the way. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A Rider's brunch! At 09:54 AM 12/13/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > >In the spirit of god old-fashioned holiday get togethers: Ummm...there's no tent or snakes involved in this, is there? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 10:42:41 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Where was everyone? Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:42:32 -0500 I actually didn't expect anyone out yesterday but I saw a sportster and two Gold wings out. I took a ride out 650 and 108 Laytonsville, about 35 mile trip. Not to cold either. Although I had some good layers on under the leathers. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Where was everyone? Went for a nice ride yesterday. Not as long as during the summer, but it was nice to get out for a while. Just out to Poolesville, up 109 to Comus, then over to 355 and south again...about 45 miles or so. Funny thing is that I didn't see a single other bike out...what's up? Same ride in August would have had me passing at least a dozen bikes, probably more. It was a nice day, where was everyone? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 12:00:55 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:00:39 -0500 From: corey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re[2]: Where was everyone? X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - victory.vs4dns.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - egoinc.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: i was too busy picking up the pieces of my bike after some dipwad hit it while parked near my house. :{ actually, there weren't many pieces and minimal damage was sustained as it slid ~4 feet. no note or explanation, just noticed that the bike wasn't exactly where it was when parked. sure did tear the hell outta my cover though. guess it's time to roll her into the backyard for the winter... ---------------------- corey [journal] www.egoinc.org [portfolio] www.blanksky.com [forum] www.dcstreet.com There isn't much in life that pedaling harder can't make better ______________________________________________ Monday, December 13, 2004, 10:42:32 AM, you wrote: SANN> Went for a nice ride yesterday. Not as long as during the summer, but it SANN> was nice to get out for a while. Just out to SANN> Poolesville, up 109 to Comus, SANN> then over to 355 and south again...about 45 miles or so. Funny thing is SANN> that I didn't see a single other bike out...what's up? Same ride in August SANN> would have had me passing at least a dozen bikes, probably more. It was a SANN> nice day, where was everyone? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 13:47:16 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:47:04 EST Subject: Re: A Rider's brunch! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/13/2004 10:33:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > fog city doo-dad...apart from slight light distortion, the thing > keeps my visor crystal clear. Now If I could only get it to shut all > the way. Is it the original Fog City? Or a knock off? The original has a very thin clear(ish) glue strip and the knock off I had used a thicker black glue strip that interfered with closing my visor (I could force it, but...) The problem went away when the glue failed and it fell off. Now I have one of the originals back on my visor and the problem went away. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 14:14:17 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Fkdia4aQlmvJuKJDQ70UMZK6d/+SJgVJUkS1GeRg21ErzwQLE+ooyzYc/lon8Wwmj8A9L2ooCyY9/av/iwF2LS/koeyLX80jXWOH/qwyAlkovFnTdMN8XR0mHTGEHabZJbdkLXKyiUtH+RpJMzf0Eudtw8x0Yqwe6feoXGztExs= ; Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:13:59 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Another BDC To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 14:24:51 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:24:52 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: A Rider's brunch! At 10:32 AM 12/13/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > You have to allow for one typo on a Monday morning! Yeah, but you gotta expect at least one SA remark about it too! :-) >Great weekend for >riding these past two off-days. I got to test out my new Icon patrol >gloves (cold weather gear) and my fog city adhesive on my visor. The >gloves are good, your hands still get icy but not to the point of >unpleasantness. If they were letting your hands get cold in the 40-something temps this weekend, they may not be up to winter riding. My non-electric H-D gloves let my finger tips get a little chilly after an hour and a half of riding (a fair bit of ~30mph, a lot of ~50mph and a little ~65mph at the end on I-270) but overall my hands were warm...even slightly sweaty. I use these gloves down to ~40 degrees, then I switch to the electric ones, which have even better insulation. I don't need to turn on the power to them until around freezing. If yours weren't hacking the mid 40s well, you might want to consider something warmer for deep winter temps. > I shall update my report on them in January. As for >the fog city doo-dad...apart from slight light distortion, the thing >keeps my visor crystal clear. Now If I could only get it to shut all >the way. I just leave my visor open a smidge and the air flow keeps it clear. About 1/8" is enough. Of course the air flow also keeps my face cool too...got some ideas for avoiding fog while staying warm I want to try out this winter...we'll have to see how they work out. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 14:31:42 2004 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:29:12 -0500 To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Where was everyone? At 10:42 AM 12/13/04 -0500, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >Gold wings out. I took a ride out 650 and 108 Laytonsville, about 35 mile >trip. Not to cold either. Although I had some good layers on under the >leathers. I just had jeans on under the leather pants, and my thighs got chilly at first, but once my circulation realized I wasn't indoors anymore it ramped up and I was fine. Only had cotton tube socks on in the combat-style boots, so my feet were getting chilly (but not too much so) after a while...almost cold enough for the hunting socks someone here recommended last winter and which worked great. Upper body was a T-shirt, sweatshirt, leather vest and FXRG jacket. Had to leave the vents open on the jacket...not cold enough for that many layers yet! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 14:47:15 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Misc: Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:51:04 -0500 Advice on buying a new bike: Someone wrote "money" and my parsimonious pinkies began to type. "IIRC, a bunch of your riding is commuting. Consider finding a used commuter bike. Shaft drive, easy to maintain, top box to hold your helmet and stuff. *A Pacific Coast would be great but too many folks discovered their worth so you'd do good to get a PC for <$3000. You could save your dough and buy a used sporty for cash (then you need no collision insurance) [Insurance]: I only have liability on my three bikes. If one becomes "wadded" it's not a big loss -- and I have two back-ups. The add-on for the last bike (ST1100 was $17 but I'm a geezer with a reasonable driving record. [Lane Splitting]: Anybody driving in a metro area should look right and left before crossing the street - even -- with a green light. There are too many idiots who: 1. Are inattentive and don't see the yellow/red. a. Geezers like me. b. Ijits doing something other than driving. 2. Ares self-absorbed who believe they are privileged and the yellow light is for bad drivers. 3. Dumbasses who gen-u-wine-ly believe they're gonna git to the other side in time. * And then there are "Mean SOBs" who think others don't dare hit their junker. (As an adhere to Hanson's Razor, I believe these are a small minority.). But no matter the cause, as a motorcycle driver, you are at greater peril. Look before you leap. Add lights to increase your conspicuity, tooters for survival . . . and . . . entertainment. FWIW, here are the lights I added to my new (to me) bike. Carl in Bethesda Commuting into your nation's capital since 1981 through sun, rain, over snow, and around road ragers. '85 VF700S (Rocinito); '83 VF700F (666); '96 ST1100 (Stumped for a name) '97 Aerostich Roadcrafter (Fred the Red); '02 JR Phoenix: (Amarillo Joe) Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 16:22:58 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=G3gxnLZoSR6cVXaV8adeKtVw9YequIGyPsUy23Jo51SPgzre8lg2XPkpEaVfz+9MVALXBFJgeFuO7EwR15O0P/EabvI1CsQeifJRsM6jORHUn5nGJ2Hdd/FkfKyQWtdJFJFHY9WIX34DK0lJWi8ON3WQFx21Z++BbgsyMULpick= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:22:49 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: A Rider's brunch! Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks for organizing this, Julian. I'll try to be there. On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:54:49 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > > In the spirit of god old-fashioned holiday get togethers: > > A Riders Brunch > > Time: December 19th, 11:45 AM > Location: The Irish Inn Glen Echo, MD > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 16:28:06 2004 Subject: Interesting link was: RE: A Rider's brunch! Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 16:28:02 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Paul Wilson" Cc: Some fascinating stuff here: http://www.daidegas.it/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 18:07:47 2004 From: To: Subject: On a totally different topic Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:07:40 -0500 just plain creepy. Probably all bs but good reading for all you splunkers out there... http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/index.html From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 18:36:01 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=rd6Yb2fXhXftUYYEWZGCRaokKzGUMNPcKpTVN45hpzqzitRXgQ+qqF0ofd7BCQHUPfq/CpakWhANT4SzfeMbmvUXJLUUS4GfzlqCUFiX7iq5MFh7Fv9gI07nwoaWOW1C72FUt7cnCo7OyIuirVWS0Ti08mGoA4ZsMlG9/jhMNZU= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:35:53 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Interesting link was: RE: A Rider's brunch! > Some fascinating stuff here: > http://www.daidegas.it/ Vero, ma e tutto in Italiano. Qui, in gli Stati Uniti, parliamo l'Inglese. Michele J. (that's promounced "me KAY lay", NOT michelle) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 13 19:01:28 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=er94rKRcmmNSdnqT1jy2dJvDj7Kl48RG/C7RsL8+niWBYrcV8/WXgTEHPKQJxc139InrYypY7EKLri1jez9rFvvea2FZTLhQnkdI7M754lqdyAEVik7OOhej0WKJdsnO+twCrJF/UHN1RKLiU5pI6gjMVw5j8ZA5dEavj1aUZSo= Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:20 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Interesting link was: RE: A Rider's brunch! Come si dice "smartass" in italiano? Io non so, ma quello sarebbe buono da sapere. Giovanni (close enough) J. On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:35:53 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: > > Some fascinating stuff here: > > http://www.daidegas.it/ > > Vero, ma e tutto in Italiano. > > Qui, in gli Stati Uniti, parliamo l'Inglese. > > Michele J. > (that's promounced "me KAY lay", NOT michelle) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 10:23:07 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Chillin' Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:27:01 -0500 Mike Baited: "Where was everyone?" [Carl]: Here there, running errands on the 'Ceptor on Saturday, on the ST Sunday and yesterday. *(For you woodworkers: Sam's Club in Gaithersburg is dumping Porter Cable router kits for $99.99! Was $170. "Porter-Cable 693LRPK 1-3/4 HP Router and plunger base combo" Ob Motorcycle: It won't fit in a Givi Maxi nor ST side bags so bring bungees. ) [Bartman Mentioned]: I just had jeans on under the leather pants, and my thighs got chilly at first, but once my circulation realized I wasn't indoors anymore it ramped up and I was fine. [Carl]: The Container Store sells packing materials. The item you want is the thin (~ 3mm) polyurethane film (29 [Alt]155 per square foot. Slip a sheet under your pants or whatever and over your cold spot(s). That'll give you a great thin layer of insulation for pennies. [Mike Bragged]: Only had cotton tube socks on in the combat-style boots, so my feet were getting chilly (but not too much so) after a while...almost cold enough for the hunting socks someone here recommended last winter and which worked great. [Carl]: Have not used them but some serious cold weather folks have recommended: * Warming packs (single-use iron fillings in a plastic baggie) * Electric boot inner soles. A Rider's brunch! December 19th, 11:45 AM Location: The Irish Inn Glen Echo, MD [Carl]: Yes, good food. Many years ago it was "Trav's Inn", a beer and chili biker (bicyclists too) hangout. Alas, I'll be in Texas. Uh I mean "Yee haw! Ah'll be in Texas!" Lights: Someone off-list said nice things about my sermonette yesterday and added they were also concerned about being rear-ended. Here's what I replied: [Carl]: Yep, Keep it in gear until you see them coming to a stop. I've read a few tales of both tragedy about those who didn't and survival from those who did (one dropped his bike and ran.) FWIW, I have hyper lights on my ST. For the others, I have the front brake switch disconnected so I can flash the brake light while keeping the bike steady. Stay warm, stay alive, enjoy. March is just three months away. Carl (looking forward to basking in Bryan and Oaxaca) in Bethesda. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 10:24:43 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:24:19 EST Subject: Road trip anyone? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This could be fun to cross on a bike. :-) _http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1373427,00.html_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1373427,00.html) Scooter From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 10:51:31 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:50:38 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Chillin' At 10:27 AM 12/14/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >*(For you woodworkers: Sam's Club in Gaithersburg is dumping Porter Cable >router kits for $99.99! Was $170. >"Porter-Cable 693LRPK 1-3/4 HP Router and plunger base combo" I've seen that kit...it's nice, and the price is fantastic. I wonder it Costco has it too? Have to go check... >[Carl]: The Container Store sells packing materials. Good idea! I usually just add thermal undies, but no reason I can't use that idea too, when it gets really cold out. >[Mike Bragged]: ...almost >cold enough for the hunting socks someone here recommended last winter and >which worked great. > >[Carl]: Have not used them but some serious cold weather folks have >recommended: >* Warming packs (single-use iron fillings in a plastic baggie) >* Electric boot inner soles. Don't think the warming packs will fit in my boots along with my feet, but if they will, I have some reusable ones. You snap a metal disk inside the pack to trigger it, and then massage it a bit when it hardens to break up the crystals and restore flexibility. They stay warm for about 45 minutes each, then you have to boil them for about 5 minutes to reset them for another use. For short rides they'd be fine, and cost less in the long run. Haven't seen electric boot inner soles. I did see electric socks at a booth at the January bike show, but the wires ran *under* the foot, which looked uncomfortable. Inner soles would be better I think...wonder if they'll have them at the bike show next month? >Alas, I'll be in Texas. Uh I mean "Yee haw! Ah'll be in Texas!" Just remember not to ask people if they are from Texas. If they are, they'll tell you soon enough, and if they aren't, why embarass them? ;-) Oh, and "Don't Mess With Texas!" is an anti-littering slogan, not a threat. >they were also concerned about being rear-ended. Here's what I replied: > >[Carl]: Yep, Keep it in gear until you see them coming to a stop. I've read I also angle the bike when I stop, so that "straight ahead" will take me past the car ahead of me if I have to move in a hurry, and so that one of my mirrors is aimed back along the lane behind me, to make watching the next guy easier. Once there are a couple of cars behind me, I relax a bit. One isn't enough...my mom was once hit from behind while stopped, and shoved 10 feet against locked brakes (she saw it coming, slouched for head support and stood on the brake pedal) into the car in front of her. She was in a '74 Cougar XR-7 at the time (about 6000 lbs). The kid in daddy's car that hit her was in a Lincoln Continental. The Cougar survived (though everything behind the rear axle was wadded up good), and so did my mom...a bike would have been in trouble even with the Cougar for shielding though. >FWIW, I have hyper lights on my ST. For the others, I have the front brake >switch disconnected so I can flash the brake light while keeping the bike >steady. I've found that I can just blip the front brake lever to flash the brake light when needed. The bike has enough inertia to hold it in place for the brief time I have the brakes released in most cases, and rolling an inch or two won't hurt me if it doesn't. Have a nice trip to Texas! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 10:59:12 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: On a totally different topic Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:58:48 -0500 That's a great yarn, but I doubt that it is anything more than that. I spent a LOT of time spelunking in my younger days and dealt with other cavers who had more time underground than I did. While we all experienced some odd things from time to time, I've never heard anything quite like this. (Like the time that God spoke to me as I hung on to a slippery wet cave wall by my fingernails, about to plunge into despair - and the ensuring 100 foot fall to the bottom - telling me to "hold on". About a minute (lifetime) later, I saw the glow of the helmet light of the guy coming up from the bottom with the gear I needed to get myself situated so that I could complete the remaining 100 foot climb out.) Getting way far into a cave and turning off all of the lights for a while is a very cool thing, though. It really does heighten the other senses, and can add to the general "creepiness" factor if you are so inclined. >From: >To: >Subject: On a totally different topic >Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:07:40 -0500 > >just plain creepy. Probably all bs but good reading for all you splunkers >out there... > >http://www.holyshiite.com/caver/index.html > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 11:17:32 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:23:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Chillin' To: "Custer, Carl" Cc: "'DCCycles'" From: "garcia oliver" "Custer, Carl" writes: >[Carl]: Yep, Keep it in gear until you see them coming to a stop. I've >read >a few tales of both tragedy about those who didn't and survival from those >who did (one dropped his bike and ran.) I prefer being in neutral---have seen/had enough clutch cables break, leaving potential lurch into intersection. But I always watch for someone behind me not stopping. Of course, it's usually not obvious (before the fact) whether they just intend to go around me. So far, so good. > >For the others, I have the front brake >switch disconnected so I can flash the brake light while keeping the bike >steady. Me too. It has the additional benefit that you can slow down after passing that unmarked patrol car without making yourself any more conspicuous than you already are. Caution: if there's a vehicle right behind you, this procedure should not be used 8^) > --garcia "How is it that a systematic discrepancy between exit polls and official results is considered evidence of a rigged election when it takes place in the Ukraine, but not when it takes place in the US?" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:03:25 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:03:13 EST Subject: Re: Chillin' To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/14/2004 11:17:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, garicao@XXXXXX writes: > I prefer being in neutral---have seen/had enough clutch cables break, > leaving potential lurch into intersection. Never happen. In 8 years as a full time mechanic I never replaced a cable that broke while simply being held in, they break while being pulled in. In nearly 40 years of riding I have broken a bunch of cables, never while static. Unless you are revving the engine the bike (with _few_ exceptions) will simply stall. A high revving 4 cyl. _will_ stall. I HAVE heard of any number of bikes being rear ended at lights, you are unlikely to have the time to put it in gear _and_ move out of the way. I leave it in gear and suggest (as does MSF) you leave it in gear at lights also. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:06:42 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'garcia oliver'" Cc: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Brake lights Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:10:36 -0500 TO my: . . . I have the front brake switch disconnected so I can flash the brake light while keeping the bike steady. Garcia Offered: "Me too. It has the additional benefit that you can slow down after passing that unmarked patrol car without making yourself any more conspicuous than you already are." [Carl]: Heavens to Betsy! Why ever would you need to slow down because of a patrol car? =8^O Garcia Opined: "Caution: if there's a vehicle right behind you, this procedure should not be used 8^)" [Carl]: Yup, but . . . another advantage to the disconnected front brake switch is that you can flash your brake light at the driver behind you (using the rear brake pedal**). Carl * We don't need no flashing blue lights We don't need no speed control. No dark sarcasm in the city Coppers, leave those squids alone Hey! Coppers, leave those squids alone. (Apologies to Pink Floyd) ** Some listers argue, "We don' need no steenkin' rear brake." While I disagree, especially in metro street driving, here is perhaps an area of agreement. The rear brake pedal is good for something. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:29:12 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=JwKN5/36k7wSXTmH6r6UNG+n6lldtOgUFgj2pYl3gRi5ndQG+4c+uqhWRCcRJS6D5q2WP6LnrrgBSSJx8egiHLtJGi6omKXMXrHTeCaFt5eBN9ZfGM4s9nurDAVOsHvWkSTRbkpp3PkmLKirSn4aG7F+CXyZ7eKIT/ek1UMY6FU= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:29:04 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Road trip anyone? > This could be fun to cross on a bike. :-) > http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1373427,00.html I'm up! The article has it wrong - Colorado's Royal Gorge bridge is for automobiles - I've driven across it. The French get the #2 spot. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:30:41 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=YV7LoL+KAW4NwXWX3yg6/hZTkjocIHH0e8PMufAYkK7pZQ8NtRyj8Ox+KfCZXoZ1xv71o/3ByaZ0VYGyGS45lxgdZ3mSiwCvruTNd5S37m2b+ShDKWttVw+0nYqot29+zYmnZt6cp8EU4mqPBOpuNZnxrCoTRiOEt7Xd78keoNQ= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:30:33 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Interesting link was: RE: A Rider's brunch! Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Come si dice "smartass" in italiano? That hurts! Sniff... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:39:29 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=qfufSQck4s6KeZEB+y5Gw7WNgrbUR5RYl7ZpACSDW2urtZlFrr6RV9BnCbLT34H4QnCInBGtThIPJUcbLSUdxBanoOG4Oew+IypraZS759UWy9f6w6bNqIu7dUrDQP3F0QusWv3zIeCqTDcdo12+XoXMSDgDE7De9ZhFKA2BgW0= ; Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:39:05 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Road trip anyone? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The also have listed "The Kochertal viaduct in Germany was previously the highest road bridge at 185 metres (607ft)" which is also incorrect as the New River Gorge Bridge in WV is 876'. Glenn --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > This could be fun to cross on a bike. :-) > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1373427,00.html > > I'm up! > > The article has it wrong - Colorado's Royal Gorge > bridge is for > automobiles - I've driven across it. > > The French get the #2 spot. > > Michael J. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:44:58 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=qh31zB6uCWAGeLYKR9ViyRt2LxipolECEVMhZlIcgu4kLJ2uv4obL9rWAnjT84CFfR0lNL9vIjS7olSkSg5Ju+d2+gMOEEbkbUeDVcOHwdLZGl1PJOPko9veojOO10/vUtXLKmwgI5hw/OAtZ+bhChFi0/llEe4+ZzwnYDtjGSI= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:44:48 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Road trip anyone? That's two major errors. This article is so poorly researched, it's pathetic. Maybe they should learn how to use google. On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:39:05 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart wrote: > The also have listed "The Kochertal viaduct in Germany > was previously the highest road bridge at 185 metres > (607ft)" which is also incorrect as the New River > Gorge Bridge in WV is 876'. > > Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 12:58:23 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=GNlMQlSJloNjiJ5bG3kj/CUBHvIYdFCPwxSvHWoXF7w2cEV14803I5FukLW+Xm6S2Kwqx8iVnVu1Lb034VeRPW5fed0FkrXijEp0QVr/EuTM2DK7Inr8Y4rK4Z5buQqEW224r3Ih6DFxsZeScNBLkFpqQD/08HhOuERzscZggOY= ; Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:58:19 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Chillin' To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Garcia and Long John discuss clutch cables > > I prefer being in neutral---have seen/had enough > clutch cables break, > > leaving potential lurch into intersection. > > Never happen. > In 8 years as a full time mechanic I never replaced > a cable that broke while > simply being held in, they break while being pulled > in. I had one break at a stoplight once. Sometimes I forget to downshift while coming to a stop. Then I sit at the light and repeatedly shift to a lower gear until I get to first. Shift, wiggle the clutch, repeat. The cable broke while doing that. Since I had the brake held and the throttle at idle, it lurched less than an inch and died. This happened on a Honda 650 twin. Leon Begeman Ninja 250 rider From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:01:01 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:57:05 -0500 From: skip To: Paul Wilson CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Road trip anyone? X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.575, required 6, AWL -1.57) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX it's funny how when modern media reports on something that you know a lot about how blatantly wrong their facts are, but when you read about something you don't know anything about you kind of take their word for it. I've experienced this numerous times with regard to skydiving accidents. "The chute didn't open and he hit the ground" is usually what they report. the facts are often much more interesting, since rarely does "the chute didn't open" tell the whole story. --skip, skeptical Paul Wilson wrote: > > That's two major errors. This article is so poorly researched, it's > pathetic. Maybe they should learn how to use google. > > On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:39:05 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart > wrote: > > The also have listed "The Kochertal viaduct in Germany > > was previously the highest road bridge at 185 metres > > (607ft)" which is also incorrect as the New River > > Gorge Bridge in WV is 876'. > > > > Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:23:47 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:23:44 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Brake lights At 12:10 PM 12/14/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >** Some listers argue, "We don' need no steenkin' rear brake." While I >disagree, especially in metro street driving, here is perhaps an area of >agreement. The rear brake pedal is good for something. Sport bikes may handle differently or something, but I find that the rear brake aids enormously in slow speed turning. I've heard the same from police motormen, and their teachers. Oh, and in the ERC last spring too. This is the only place I've ever heard anyone suggest that the rear brake was useless. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:24:01 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:16 -0500 From: skip To: Leon Begeman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Chillin' X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.56, required 6, AWL -1.56) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX Leon Begeman wrote: > > Garcia and Long John discuss clutch cables > > > > I prefer being in neutral---have seen/had enough > > clutch cables break, > > > leaving potential lurch into intersection. > > > > Never happen. > > In 8 years as a full time mechanic I never replaced > > a cable that broke while > > simply being held in, they break while being pulled > > in. > > I had one break at a stoplight once. > > Sometimes I forget to downshift while coming to a > stop. Then I sit at the light and repeatedly shift to > a lower gear until I get to first. Shift, wiggle the > clutch, repeat. The cable broke while doing that. > Since I had the brake held and the throttle at idle, > it lurched less than an inch and died. This happened > on a Honda 650 twin. while not a story of a clutch cable, it is relative to "leaving it in gear at a stoplight." shortly after I got my magna, I was reading on another mailing list about keeping the bike in gear at stoplights. previously, I had viewed them as a "rest stop". I was sitting about 4th in a line of cars on a 4 lane divided highway. I was at the left part of the right lane. I was in gear, examining my mirrors for approaching traffic. a van was coming up fast... too fast. I scooted inbetween the cars and up to about the drivers window of the car I was previously behind. the lady looked over at me about the same time she got slammed by the van that had failed to apply his brakes in a timely manner. I was mighty grateful that I had read about that particular danger just the day before. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:30:24 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:26:26 -0500 To: skip , Paul Wilson From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Road trip anyone? Cc: DC-Cycles At 12:57 PM 12/14/04 -0500, skip wrote: >it's funny how when modern media reports on something that you know a >lot about how blatantly wrong their facts are, but when you read about >something you don't know anything about you kind of take their word for >it. > >I've experienced this numerous times with regard to skydiving accidents. You can add guns and airplanes to that list. They are frequently wrong to a laughable level...if it wasn't so serious a situation. Probably motos too... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:33:51 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:53:02 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Brake lights On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:10 PM 12/14/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: > > >** Some listers argue, "We don' need no steenkin' rear brake." While I > >disagree, especially in metro street driving, here is perhaps an area of > >agreement. The rear brake pedal is good for something. > > Sport bikes may handle differently or something Bingo. Say no mo'. :-) On a long cruiser, with more rear bias and a pencil thin front tire, you *NEED* the rear brake. On a shorter sportbike, with a grippy front skin, forward weight bias and the ability to stand it on the front tire with moderate 2 finger braking, the rear is almost useless. I say *almost*, because it can be helpful in parking lots, gravel/grass/snow :-) and when it's raining. If you're a deity, you can also use it to back into a corner, but I don't think I qualify :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 13:52:23 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:52:28 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Brake lights At 01:53 PM 12/14/04 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Tue, 14 Dec 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 12:10 PM 12/14/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >> >> >** Some listers argue, "We don' need no steenkin' rear brake." While I >> >disagree, especially in metro street driving, here is perhaps an area of >> >agreement. The rear brake pedal is good for something. >> >> Sport bikes may handle differently or something > >Bingo. Say no mo'. :-) On a long cruiser, with more rear bias and a >pencil thin front tire, you *NEED* the rear brake. Well, my front tire is anything but "pencil thin", but my bike is longer and has the weight more toward the rear than with race/sport bikes. If I am in a slow turn (like in a parking lot) and I hit the front brake, the bike will show a strong tendency to fall over..."as if a magnet was pulling it down" (the way a DVD I have on slow speed handling puts it). Hit the rear and there's no such problem. Drag the rear slightly while modulating the clutch and using the throttle to keep the RPMs around 1200-1500 and I can do some pretty tight turns...though I'll need a lot more practice to do it as well as the cops can. In a panic stop the rear is less useful, tending to lock up and require attention to modulate, with most stopping power coming from the front, same as a sport bike (physics doesn't change). The geometry of a stretched chopper with a 280 rear tire is probably different again of course, but my bike is a lot closer to a standard 60's style bike and riding position than it is to a chopper. >I say *almost*, because it can be helpful in parking lots, >gravel/grass/snow :-) and when it's raining. If you're a deity, you can >also use it to back into a corner, but I don't think I qualify :-) Me neither...I'd rather just slow down and take the turn easy. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 14:00:39 2004 Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 14:00:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Chillin' No fear here. I welcome our hydraulic clutch overlords. At 12:58 PM 12/14/2004, Leon Begeman wrote: >Sometimes I forget to downshift while coming to a >stop. Then I sit at the light and repeatedly shift to >a lower gear until I get to first. Shift, wiggle the >clutch, repeat. The cable broke while doing that. >Since I had the brake held and the throttle at idle, >it lurched less than an inch and died. This happened >on a Honda 650 twin. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 14:05:10 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=K3t4asDnW+YHcVMW2X6Q48QWZkR3W5wJX4SqfI1R3VcI0RxSBiam9kSUGZfY9nVRYkZxpBZYmaI/x9Kps5XugfErIzt4aErbr3tQB9md6naMebTs2hSE56n/R9akfsKZ/b/OeoZKs07ooBIldBBO+MvkZeHzLgbQt8HgljNNZtE= Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:38:13 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Chillin' On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:20:16 -0500, skip wrote: > > shortly after I got my magna, I was reading on another mailing list > about keeping the bike in gear at stoplights. previously, I had viewed > them as a "rest stop". I was sitting about 4th in a line of cars on a 4 > lane divided highway. I was at the left part of the right lane. I was > in gear, examining my mirrors for approaching traffic. a van was coming > up fast... too fast. I scooted inbetween the cars and up to about the > drivers window of the car I was previously behind. the lady looked over > at me about the same time she got slammed by the van that had failed to > apply his brakes in a timely manner. I was mighty grateful that I had > read about that particular danger just the day before. > > --skip > > I've had to dodge in between cars for a mini-lane-split on the SE/SW freeway. Example: Beemer driver following didn't look like he was going to make it, in a sudden accordion-style slow-down typical of that piece of asphalt. After much screeching of tires, he managed not to hit the car I had been following. Couldn't tell if there was a bike-length remaining, but glad I didn't stick around to find out first-hand. Moral of the story - watch your six and be prepared to get outta the way. That also means not following in the center of the lane. Off to the right or left gives you an escape option. I will shift into neutral for a light, but only after there are several cars stopped behind me. For one thing, my KLR's got heated grips, but it doesn't have heated *levers.* Brrrr. I have been hit from behind, ready to make a left hand turn, waiting on traffic coming the other direction. I guess I wasn't watching my mirrors closely enough and didn't see the van approaching until it was too late. There's nothing quite like that split-second sinking feeling of watching a vehicle get real big in your mirrors. :-\ I don't remember if I was in gear. Most probably, since I was ready to go once the oncoming traffic cleared and the lever pull on the VFR is minimal (hydraulic). -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 14 23:54:50 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 23:54:34 EST Subject: Snow To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Well I had this years first ride in (very, very _very_) light snow on the way home from work at about 10:20pm. Cannot say I was the only bike, or even DC-cycles lister riding in it either. I suspect it will not be the last time this year... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 09:41:11 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:40:54 -0500 To: "dc Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Snow At 11:54 PM 12/14/2004, you wrote: >Well I had this years first ride in (very, very _very_) light snow on the way >home from work at about 10:20pm. Cannot say I was the only bike, or even >DC-cycles lister riding in it either. >I suspect it will not be the last time this year... I had my first road ice this morning. Nothing spectacular, just ribbons of cloudy black ice. Yesterday morning I had to stop for a whole family of deer, one of which tried to go around a tall fence to get away from me, got cornered, and waited for me to leave before vaulting back out and across the road. They are cute when I am not dodging them. My heated gear is under the tree, so I improvised today with mycoal toe heaters in my gloves. Excellent investment (under $1 for a 2 pack that lasts all day). ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 11:09:56 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Chillin', Survivin' in the City Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:13:43 -0500 Clutch cables: Leon Bragged: "I had one break at a stoplight once." [Carl]: Aye, my 1980 GS 450 E broke a clutch cable once while leaving work downtown at 14th and K (But the cable broke as I pulled the lever in.) A "Good Thing" to learn is the timing of traffic lights. 1. It will save you brake pad material and fuel. 2. It can give you the jump on the cages that race from light to light and are just starting as you whiz by at a steady 25 MPH (or whatever -- but while checking cross-traffic.) Or 3. Pull your fat out of the fire: "War Story": When the clutch cable broke, I successfully made it home, driving up Connecticut Ave. Knowledge of the traffic light synchronization kept me from having to stop the bike until a traffic back up at Chevy Chase Circle. God bless that handicap ramp -- I restarted the engine, pushed the bike down the ramp while in neutral, snicked it into gear, and continued. "Morale": During your commute, slow down and check this week's traffic light synchronization (Yeah, it does change occasionally). Challenge yourself to make the commute without ever setting your foot down. That skill may come in handy. Paul Whined: " For one thing, my KLR's got heated grips, but it doesn't have heated *levers.* Brrrr." [Carl]: The shrinky dink lever covers on my Sabre do a nice job of insulating my digits from that cold-co-old alloy lever compressing the glove insulation. Alas, those lever covers no longer seem to be available. But, on my first commuter, the Suzuki, I glued some dense poly-foam to the levers then wrapped them with duct tape. By Spring the tape looked pretty ugly but it wasn't a poseur bike and levers blended in with the rest of the winter grunge. * O.K. it may not be #9; It could be #19 or #90. But don-cha just repeating "number nine, number nine". Carl (This senility thing could be fun) Custer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 11:39:51 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 8:39:38 -0800 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Chillin', Survivin' in the City ---- "Custer wrote: > [Carl]: The shrinky dink lever covers on my Sabre do a nice job of > insulating my digits from that cold-co-old alloy lever compressing the glove > insulation. Alas, those lever covers no longer seem to be available. But, > on my first commuter, the Suzuki, I glued some dense poly-foam to the levers > then wrapped them with duct tape. By Spring the tape looked pretty ugly but > it wasn't a poseur bike and levers blended in with the rest of the winter > grunge. You can still buy lever covers sold to make dirt bike levers grippier (they fit street levers fine too, although they may be a little short you could just use a pair on one street lever if necessary). This hasn't been a problem for me this year with the recent addition of gerbings electric gloves... :) Kirk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 11:58:33 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:58:04 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Chillin', Survivin' in the City At 11:13 AM 12/15/04 -0500, Custer, Carl wrote: >Paul Whined: >" For one thing, my KLR's got heated grips, but it doesn't have heated >*levers.* Brrrr." > >[Carl]: The shrinky dink lever covers on my Sabre do a nice job of >insulating my digits from that cold-co-old alloy lever compressing the glove >insulation. Alas, those lever covers no longer seem to be available. They also sell some nice leather lace-on ones with tassels if you want durability and a unique style...check out J&P Cycles catalog. ;-) [No, I don't have those...my gloves do a great job with that problem] >But, >on my first commuter, the Suzuki, I glued some dense poly-foam to the levers >then wrapped them with duct tape. Just part of your unique style? If I remember, you decorate your riding suit that way too, right? ;-) -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:10:06 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=n3ML+9tngPm25JrXGr7/LNK46+bK6YKVpJt3nsjpfAVD2rPNAuQOke3QYUnZD4PZO222lkiGFVdMGNBgR4pwAV1N/WfMsSFUiGFBNu4u2YQ1aj3BwZPReuiYcZEf0G1D2A95U3/jdOZ1/eLz2t4KfcEK4FOgOi8Qfzn0OOMT9IQ= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:09:52 -0500 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC-CYCLES Subject: cold hands? I've installed a pair of those handlebar/lever covers for the first time this year. Took all of about 5 minutes (most of which was positioning some stick on velcro). They work like a champ, especially in conjunction with my heated grips. I wore my summer gloves this morning, and didn't feel the cold on my hands at all. http://www.hippohands.com/Hippo%20Hands%20&%20Gaiters.htm (My winter gloves were essentially ruined by a few downpours in New Zealand last week... anyone know how to get rid of mildew from the inside liners? A few loads in the washing machine didn't help at all ...) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:17:32 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uQBahdMd5EcxkdqD5kyKpvKNb8GUhZttvq8NeP8xl51qzPlAm+yPgTIWrORYcqqpGeEBbV5u4PEKUtj4QLSt06chczS10fJIh9DJs1B7cXmIRoegTxvr5D+7hE8HH+S8LdZpDi7BV2fSZbfLSVB3KAptl1yMn2+6TADNSfmSPoU= ; Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:17:07 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: cold hands? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Your only choice is to wash with bleach/water. Although this might ruin the leather it seems like the only option. I'd give it a shot and then re-condition the leather Glenn --- Aaron Maurer wrote: > > (My winter gloves were essentially ruined by a few > downpours in New > Zealand last week... anyone know how to get rid of > mildew from the > inside liners? A few loads in the washing machine > didn't help at all > ...) > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:24:50 2004 From: To: Subject: MSF Beginners Course Info Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:24:43 -0500 Anyone know what the number is to call for the MSF course held in No. Va? If there's a central number to call, that would be great. tks, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:29:47 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=E9kGKjAM3WIIlQcnFHZB/8pic1sbATW1lQG9kQTSQVonRhvYg2AvXEOXogtAAeHKm2bNNdweYsPiFuNC6ZUKRM+vJTYn+LWXhTFiPJzSeCajFMbCUU3lMudfJ2UxSAi25f+8uCE8nBkEBl1vu2CTYqKDV3mCjVAKKXOYva0iVls= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:29:39 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: "adamme1@XXXXXX" , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: MSF Beginners Course Info Try 703-845-6110 for general information. That's the number at Alexandria. AFAIK, however, all registrations must be done in person (using a computer work station at the college) or via the web site. I don't think they encourage phone-ins any more. It's kind of a pain, but all our students are put into the registration system like any other NVCC student. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:24:43 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Anyone know what the number is to call for the MSF course > held in No. Va? If there's a central number to call, that > would be great. > > tks, > -aki > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:32:43 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=qlRK3QwjJ+cmY7GDYdPjXc8tXccDxn7njbitJnbJrB6czyy19Vuu2+kz49vLQRD+RRG1wKT/vIDtQFhgNVhSoNJFd2FC4wAXQnfdoWhxuCTsjNgXPE5F0vEZ183OSu4vn8RHCY0wIxNyKp4K5PidK9qLfu8UIww3xfCAcljYzPo= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:32:17 -0500 From: Eric Geary To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Beginners Course Info you can call 703-845-6110 for the alexandria campus one or you can call 800-446-9227 for the entire Va area and get the one closest to you www.msf-usa.org is their website i believe From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:37:00 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=pkxwuH5t7BhOEY+YecbbEkv6AO7M3gB/WgX4vTSpDoKqOVBz32Va8cKlEwdb1aiQ9Afyc3E+X9ITJLYlgeEwgtQIvJWkJRiSv3MT8ZBISef+f/l66FCxNgpDZV7X9pBLPYm5yva4sMmAD1FzEaeMUy9vdP6NE2fMAp0OovbJzUs= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:36:52 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: MSF Beginners Course Info www.learn2ride.com is the Va-specific web site. 703-450-2551 for Loudoun. On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:32:17 -0500, Eric Geary wrote: > you can call 703-845-6110 for the alexandria campus one > > or you can call 800-446-9227 for the entire Va area and get the one > closest to you > > www.msf-usa.org is their website i believe -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:43:00 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=XKqMFnz359BViTrY3tmH1tUK6Q+YwcJRyBNZRBjvO0FQ6m7m0N916PmDsE/ZM/vFcYFdcFY/YGxpjtaXhGWXe7hGaYef4P/KQOcjqqnap1DUuFMp8fZ/onSyQ7UUn5NMvInUTIy3LOFjpi5gqheZTnGoJ222IiOirbQyjMcVb4c= ; Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:42:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Lever Covers To: DC Cycles If you're cheap, you could always use a bit of heat shrink stuff, meant for electrical work. I think the larger sizes would fit over the bulbs at the end. Even comes in colors and clear...... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 12:46:57 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=kjvJrwINKCIQflTq7dMyYpnmlzKgeE5YS0ksDweehs4ppbqpZuYzgg1hYEmghtu1obZz55875/b2TB5RWdmq1H6Sxy+dDFgyQZFIxiGYJVr4nogXtRe+J3hWvSXdFvxndTOkc9oHgL2d39nkf4Lb0TI0ciGuuXJ9wa0WCYiFtOc= Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:46:51 -0500 From: Eric Geary To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: MSF Beginners Course Info man you all beat me to it:( lol From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 13:39:03 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:34:47 -0500 To: Aaron Maurer , DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: cold hands? At 12:09 PM 12/15/04 -0500, Aaron Maurer wrote: >(My winter gloves were essentially ruined by a few downpours in New >Zealand last week... anyone know how to get rid of mildew from the >inside liners? A few loads in the washing machine didn't help at all >...) If they are leather, which seems likely, professional leather cleaning might do it. Edna's Cleaners, on Rockville Pike, might be able to help. They did with a leather coat I had...though it might be almost as cheap to just get new ones. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 15:03:41 2004 Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:09:09 -0500 Subject: Re: cold hands? To: Glenn Dysart Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Mildew needs moisture to grow. I would try drying them first, and keeping them dry. Bleach (5% sodium hypochlorite solution for those who care about such things) will kill mildew but will also oxidize glove material. --garcia "How is it that a systematic discrepancy between exit polls and official results is considered evidence of a rigged election when it takes place in the Ukraine, but not when it takes place in the US?" Glenn Dysart writes: >Your only choice is to wash with bleach/water. >Although this might ruin the leather it seems like the >only option. I'd give it a shot and then re-condition >the leather > >Glenn > >--- Aaron Maurer wrote: > > >> >> (My winter gloves were essentially ruined by a few >> downpours in New >> Zealand last week... anyone know how to get rid of >> mildew from the >> inside liners? A few loads in the washing machine >> didn't help at all >> ...) >> >> > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 16:59:40 2004 From: To: Subject: Recall of Suzuki Off Road Bikes Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 16:59:25 -0500 American Suzuki Motor Corporation Announce Recall of 2005 DR-Z110K5 Off-Road Motorcycles The following product safety recall was conducted voluntarily by the firm in cooperation with the CPSC. Consumers should stop using the product immediately unless otherwise instructed. Product: Suzuki 2005 model year DR-Z110K5 Off-Road Motor- cycles Manufacturer: Kawasaki Motors Enterprise (Thailand) Co., Ltd. Of Thailand Hazard: The rear shock absorber may have been assembled with an incorrect o-ring, allowing fluid to leak from the shock absorber. Fluid loss from the shock absorber can compromise the shock's damping characteristics, which can render the motorcycle unstable creating a potential for injury or death. Incidents/Injuries: No injuries reported. Description: Suzuki model DR-Z110K5 is a small motorcycle designed for a rider weighing less than 121 pounds. Suzuki dealers sold these ATVs nationwide between July 2004 and early November 2004. They are yellow in color with red stripe on the side of the fuel tank with a large )B“S”, the Suzuki logo. Sold: The manufacturer)B’s suggested retail price is $1699.00. Remedy: Consumers should stop using these motorcycles immediately and contact a local Suzuki dealer to schedule an appointment for repair service. Consumer Contact: Consumers can call American Suzuki Customer Service Department at 1-800-444-5077 between 8:30 AM and 5:00 PM Pacific Time, Monday through Friday or go to their website www.suzukicycles.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 15 17:00:24 2004 From: To: Subject: Same issue with the Suzi bike Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:00:14 -0500 American Suzuki Motor Corporation Announce Recall of 2005 DR-Z110K5 Off-Road Motorcycles The following product safety recall was conducted voluntarily by the firm in cooperation with the CPSC. Consumers should stop using the product immediately unless otherwise instructed. Product: Suzuki 2005 model year DR-Z110K5 Off-Road Motor- cycles Manufacturer: Kawasaki Motors Enterprise (Thailand) Co., Ltd. Of Thailand Hazard: The rear shock absorber may have been assembled with an incorrect o-ring, allowing fluid to leak from the shock absorber. Fluid loss from the shock absorber can compromise the shock's damping characteristics, which can render the motorcycle unstable creating a potential for injury or death. Incidents/Injuries: No injuries reported. Description: Suzuki model DR-Z110K5 is a small motorcycle designed for a rider weighing less than 121 pounds. Suzuki dealers sold these ATVs nationwide between July 2004 and early November 2004. They are yellow in color with red stripe on the side of the fuel tank with a large )B“S”, the Suzuki logo. Sold: The manufacturer)B’s suggested retail price is $1699.00. Remedy: Consumers should stop using these motorcycles immediately and contact a local Suzuki dealer to schedule an appointment for repair service. Consumer Contact: Consumers can call American Suzuki Customer Service Department at 1-800-444-5077 between 8:30 AM and 5:00 PM Pacific Time, Monday through Friday or go to their website www.suzukicycles.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 00:32:24 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 00:32:12 EST Subject: Re: Chillin', Survivin' in the City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/15/2004 11:10:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: > "War Story": When the clutch cable broke, I successfully made it home, Ah, that one is easy. (You can ride a bike without a clutch. Spend much time on a dirt bike and it becomes easy.) "War Story" Try riding home with a broken _throttle_ cable. BTDT. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 09:15:06 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=bmxZlKr3CHW/MqOznUUYKzlWUFPTZ2b62ToTtdbL5xUbW6wOY+KHyr+DawZJVoqt6xofI3egORLPdGfHFV2INK4NZXqsPHh2NK3RaLOKellb4NPvIv6dU1KFhs4V6GMW15EN3Nihd5p7EnKMqQMhtjXG4ydvTzw80/hltmLJ3tQ= ; Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:15:01 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Chillin', Survivin' in the City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX When it happened to me, I reconnected the throttle return cable to open the throttle. It was rather weird for the first few miles to have to roll it the other way, but after about 5 minutes it wasn't too bad. Leon. --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 12/15/2004 11:10:24 AM Eastern > Standard Time, > Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: > > > "War Story": When the clutch cable broke, I > successfully made it home, > > Ah, that one is easy. (You can ride a bike without a > clutch. Spend much time > on a dirt bike and it becomes easy.) > > "War Story" Try riding home with a broken _throttle_ > cable. BTDT. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 10:11:26 2004 Subject: RE: Chillin', Survivin' in the City Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:11:24 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: Had a clutch cable go once. Luckily, it attached to a little lever on the case that I could step on to clutch it. It wasn't fun, but it got me home. :) I always try to carry a spool of reasonably heavy wire or something like that so I can rig emergency issues when they arise. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 10:55:22 2004 Subject: Right angle-valve stems Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:55:19 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: Hey all, Someone has a deposit on my FZ1, but has asked me to replace the tires on it. He's also requested that they use right-angle valve stems, but I can't find any. Does anyone know of a good local source for these and if they're all pretty much the same or if I need to make sure they are "Yamaha specific"? --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 11:15:04 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:14:59 -0500 From: stephen@XXXXXX To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Right angle-valve stems X-Sent-Via: Mitel Networks SME Server The audacity! Tell him to replace his own tires after he buys the bike. If he doesn't like it, give him his money back and find another buyer. Some people! Stephen Quoting "Jonathan W. Kalmes" : > Hey all, > > Someone has a deposit on my FZ1, but has asked me to replace the tires > on it. He's also requested that they use right-angle valve stems, but I > can't find any. Does anyone know of a good local source for these and > if they're all pretty much the same or if I need to make sure they are > "Yamaha specific"? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 11:25:03 2004 Subject: RE: Right angle-valve stems Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:25:01 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > The audacity! Tell him to replace his own tires after he buys > the bike. If he doesn't like it, give him his money back and > find another buyer. Bah humbug, Scroogie! :P He's given me a cash deposit that's way more than enough to cover the cost, he's adding the cost to the total and he's paying me to deliver it when done. It's a pleasure dealing with this guy and I don't mind because he's willing to pay for it. Now, the last guy who wanted me to drop the price by $500 AND deliver it to Atlanta... Needless to say, he's still looking. :P --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 11:58:15 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Right angle-valve stems Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:57:02 -0500 I've gotten right-angle valves at CAD, in Gaithersburg, when I got tires mounted. I just had to ask for them. I don't know if it is something that bike shops keep on hand, or if they just order them as needed. Perry >From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" >To: >Subject: RE: Right angle-valve stems >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:25:01 -0500 > > > The audacity! Tell him to replace his own tires after he buys > > the bike. If he doesn't like it, give him his money back and > > find another buyer. > >Bah humbug, Scroogie! :P > >He's given me a cash deposit that's way more than enough to cover the >cost, he's adding the cost to the total and he's paying me to deliver it >when done. It's a pleasure dealing with this guy and I don't mind >because he's willing to pay for it. > >Now, the last guy who wanted me to drop the price by $500 AND deliver it >to Atlanta... Needless to say, he's still looking. :P > >--smthng >http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 12:13:50 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:32:21 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Right angle-valve stems On Thu, 16 Dec 2004, Perry Coleman wrote: > I've gotten right-angle valves at CAD, in Gaithersburg, when I got tires > mounted. I just had to ask for them. I don't know if it is something that > bike shops keep on hand, or if they just order them as needed. Check with auto parts shops, too. I run 90deg stems on some of my wheels - http://www.ls6.net/wheels/MINE//Image_DSC01290.JPG -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 13:35:39 2004 From: bernescut@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Some thoughts Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:35:04 -0500 CBR's don't like to start when it's 25 degrees out and they haven't been ridden in awhile. CBR's are hard to bump start even going downhill when the battery's been drained from cranking. CBR's are hard to push back up the hill. Some riders are stubborn enough to repeat this process; twice. A rider can sweat like heck pushing a CBR around. CBR's can be finally jump started from a car (with the car engine off). Metro DC motorists did not take advantage of this rider's sabbatical from riding to brush up on their driving skills. Flashing blue lights on I-66 can be a distraction. It is possible for two rear-end collisions to occur almost simultaneously directly in front of and directly behind a motorcyclist. A motoryclist's eyes get very large when this happens. It is possible to suddenly remember Latin, pre-Vatican II prayers at such a moment. CBR brakes (the front ones only, of course) are pretty good. Even on a bad day, riding feels pretty damn good. Cedric Bernescut CBR600F4 Inspirational Thought for the Day: http://tinyurl.com/zbgs Yesterday I was walking from Foggy Bottom metro down K street thinking it was just too cold to ride when I see Ducati Monster Dark go by, just to prove me wrong. After a day of workstation patching using my elaborate sneakernet setup I was leaving late around 7:10 and crossing the same street in the same place, I see the same rider on the same Ducati Monster going the other way. Go figure. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 14:40:47 2004 From: "Lisa Goddard" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Mo. Co. Smartgrowth Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:40:35 -0500 I was in front of my house unloading some stuff from Home Depot when I notice a few Montgomery County muckity-mucks and a film crew taking footage of my street. While walking by with Home Depot bags I asked them what they were up to. Turns out they were from Long Island and filming a documentary on Smartgrowth. The Montgomery County guys were along to show them around. They asked to interview me on camera. Sure, why not. They asked me about my thoughts about Smartgrowth and traffic and suggestions about what can be done to help. I proceeded to harp on about the benefits of motorcycles and that we should be praised for our excellent gas mileage, easy parking, and less damage to road than cars and trucks. Imagine how much less traffic there would be if everyone who didn't have a genuine need for a work truck were just to commute on two wheels. I don't think they were expecting that answer. Lisa Goddard '95 VFR '97 GSXR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 15:05:45 2004 Subject: Replying to lister's various thoughts Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , Last night when I chose to stay in and not ride my bike, I saw three bikes after the sunset, a Honda in the Friendship Heights area and a red and white sport bike in my hood which is South Arlington. I an hesitant to go heated gear because I have already had a battery related acid leak problem that fortunately was covered by Yamaha extended service. On the non-electrics note, I have yet to find a set of gloves that makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise in tolerance. They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves that keep your hands warm...somewhere? As for deer, I have found a new behaviour, I never allowed for. I always assumed after stories of pipelines blocking caribou migrations that deer would elect to not attempt to cross barriers such as the wall along the river side of Canal road. Well, when I came across a beautiful buck standing on the wall looking down on my be-chilled, two wheeled self, I added this behaviour as something else to watch out for. -----Original Message----- From: bernescut@XXXXXX [mailto:bernescut@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Some thoughts CBR's don't like to start when it's 25 degrees out and they haven't been ridden in awhile. CBR's are hard to bump start even going downhill when the battery's been drained from cranking. CBR's are hard to push back up the hill. Some riders are stubborn enough to repeat this process; twice. A rider can sweat like heck pushing a CBR around. CBR's can be finally jump started from a car (with the car engine off). Metro DC motorists did not take advantage of this rider's sabbatical from riding to brush up on their driving skills. Flashing blue lights on I-66 can be a distraction. It is possible for two rear-end collisions to occur almost simultaneously directly in front of and directly behind a motorcyclist. A motoryclist's eyes get very large when this happens. It is possible to suddenly remember Latin, pre-Vatican II prayers at such a moment. CBR brakes (the front ones only, of course) are pretty good. Even on a bad day, riding feels pretty damn good. Cedric Bernescut CBR600F4 Inspirational Thought for the Day: http://tinyurl.com/zbgs Yesterday I was walking from Foggy Bottom metro down K street thinking it was just too cold to ride when I see Ducati Monster Dark go by, just to prove me wrong. After a day of workstation patching using my elaborate sneakernet setup I was leaving late around 7:10 and crossing the same street in the same place, I see the same rider on the same Ducati Monster going the other way. Go figure. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 15:07:31 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=YOTqbykGlX+8Lk2+1csxXKb1TbFgTra+psxAiK70OoGF94HsS08D7fI7nQnMfLUqhZOwW7Qsj3AqW4ht46hjhYIQ6k2PNOQIMsUc34dfW95MbjMfjJlX5TfHxmZrEibUoocehKI6r/wXd/iR/+mXg+7WITIT4+7P2XLty3FqDJw= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:07:22 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Mo. Co. Smartgrowth > They asked to interview me on camera. Sure, why not. They asked me about > my thoughts about Smartgrowth and traffic and suggestions about what can be > done to help. I proceeded to harp on about the benefits of motorcycles and > that we should be praised for our excellent gas mileage, easy parking, and > less damage to road than cars and trucks. Imagine how much less traffic > there would be if everyone who didn't have a genuine need for a work truck > were just to commute on two wheels. > > I don't think they were expecting that answer. Way to go, Lisa! Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 15:16:51 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=tWY+CPBJxJnGNPAwoKB3r1plJ3PYZljAspBjEpF2wHvhuRfCmz/3J4DyFmiEgNSq7doa+C4X+bEziEDCDK+0v3oV3Di3Oaww0sTdR3+0i5aTNiYEzGwSuFSexXONZyFUdyYjlypmqTsYat9IVQWCZ2KHGKJGeGlTWZZbLuITRiA= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:16:43 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts Ya need to try my Gerbing's heated gloves. (Pretty warm w/o the juice even.) Weather's looking pretty crapulent for Sunday, so I'll let you try 'em in person. :-) I hear the fear and loathing rising already among the Washington Weather Weenies at the prospect of crystalline precipitation at ground level. The "s" word's been mentioned on the radio. Eeeek! This part of the near-South is the warmest place I've ever lived, so I find the whole thing worth a chuckle, or three. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > I have yet to find a set of gloves that > makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise > in tolerance. > They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves > that keep your hands warm...somewhere? > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 15:51:17 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:51:25 -0500 From: skip To: Paul Wilson CC: Julian Halton , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.408, required 6, AWL -1.41) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX Paul Wilson wrote: > > Ya need to try my Gerbing's heated gloves. (Pretty warm w/o the juice > even.) Weather's looking pretty crapulent for Sunday, so I'll let > you try 'em in person. :-) I hear the fear and loathing rising > already among the Washington Weather Weenies at the prospect of > crystalline precipitation at ground level. The "s" word's been > mentioned on the radio. Eeeek! This part of the near-South is the > warmest place I've ever lived, so I find the whole thing worth a > chuckle, or three. I've lived here my entire life, and the level of panic never ceases to amaze me. a few years back we got a couple feet of smow. I was actually out of "bread, Milk, and toilet paper". it was ironic, and funny to me. so I dug out and drove up to giant. the milk case was decimated, as was the bread isle. I got a quart of 2%, and some hamburger rolls. fine. I get in line, and there's a woman buying 5 gallons of milk. I asked her if she was really going to drink 5 gallons of milk before they got the roads plowed. she gave me a snotty look and kept on. I laughed out loud. she continued to give me a snotty look. I asked again, "really? you're going to need 5 gallons of milk in the next couple days? well, alright...." the roads were very passable the next day. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 15:53:20 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:53:17 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: wrong-way throttle My wife had a hard time rolling the throttle the "right" way - she wanted to move the top of the throttle in the direction of motorcycle travel. Which actually makes sense from a mapping-the-controls-to-what's-being-controlled point of view. It would also make it easier to NOT hold the throttle open while hanging on with a death grip as the bike is getting away from you. Anybody know how motorcycles ended up with the current throttle configuration? Chris P.S. Hi Leon! Going for a New Year's ride? ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Leon Begeman Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:15:01 -0800 (PST) >When it happened to me, I reconnected the throttle >return cable to open the throttle. It was rather >weird for the first few miles to have to roll it the >other way, but after about 5 minutes it wasn't too >bad. > >Leon. > >--- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > >> In a message dated 12/15/2004 11:10:24 AM Eastern >> Standard Time, >> Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes: >> >> > "War Story": When the clutch cable broke, I >> successfully made it home, >> >> Ah, that one is easy. (You can ride a bike without a >> clutch. Spend much time >> on a dirt bike and it becomes easy.) >> >> "War Story" Try riding home with a broken _throttle_ >> cable. BTDT. >> >> >> John. >> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 16:06:35 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ZS5/Ui8rgs0EI/Mb2aITI8Gr4vnnK2wT6s+/Jc8vU5T0Ac7WsFxol8EIkc+8vhbxxaHWOF1J8WBplUX7Hr1cmMCFE2ZVs8hwRN+2ARW8YJvB6M4+1yvkG193jgMDE2u5WUv/Zk9m8DhLkm3d1963JSaa/1e9NX1t4hhtExgEZAU= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:06:27 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles Subject: Re: wrong-way throttle On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:53:17 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: > My wife had a hard time rolling the throttle the "right" way - she wanted to move the top of the throttle in the direction of motorcycle travel. Which actually makes sense from a mapping-the-controls-to-what's-being-controlled point of view. ----------------- I dunno, the current configuration is compatible with the "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey" (rotate CCW to open, CW to close) standard for faucets, standard threaded fasteners, etc. Besides rolling it forward is just too weird. Since I was about four, I've been rolling on the throttle the "right" way and making revving noises. For the first couple of decades, that simulation was done on a bicycle. :) > > It would also make it easier to NOT hold the throttle open while hanging on with a death grip as the bike is getting away from you. > > ----------------- Exhibits A thru Z for why we insist on a wrist-below-knuckles hand position in the novice MSF course. If the wrist is down, a sudden jerk forward closes the throttle. > Chris > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 16:09:10 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Paul Wilson'" , , "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: wrong-way throttle Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:09:04 -0500 I also wouldn't want to be hitting the brake which pushes me forward and have to resist twisting the throttle that way. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:dcmcrider@XXXXXX] To: cnorloff@XXXXXX; DC-Cycles Subject: Re: wrong-way throttle On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:53:17 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: > My wife had a hard time rolling the throttle the "right" way - she wanted to move the top of the throttle in the direction of motorcycle travel. Which actually makes sense from a mapping-the-controls-to-what's-being-controlled point of view. ----------------- I dunno, the current configuration is compatible with the "righty-tighty, lefty-loosey" (rotate CCW to open, CW to close) standard for faucets, standard threaded fasteners, etc. Besides rolling it forward is just too weird. Since I was about four, I've been rolling on the throttle the "right" way and making revving noises. For the first couple of decades, that simulation was done on a bicycle. :) > > It would also make it easier to NOT hold the throttle open while hanging on with a death grip as the bike is getting away from you. > > ----------------- Exhibits A thru Z for why we insist on a wrist-below-knuckles hand position in the novice MSF course. If the wrist is down, a sudden jerk forward closes the throttle. > Chris > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 16:16:19 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:13:57 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: The "S" word To: DC-Cycles > >I've lived here my entire life, and the level of panic never >ceases to amaze me. a few years back we got a couple feet >of smow. I was actually out of "bread, Milk, and toilet >paper". ... I get in line, and there's a woman buying 5 >gallons of milk. I asked her if she was really going to >drink 5 gallons of milk before they got the roads plowed. >she gave me a snotty look and kept on. [Dave] People around here have a hard enough time handling extreme complications such as rain, darkness, light breezes. My GOD, you're actually talking about solid precipitation! I figure, I have plenty of water, and TOWMBO keeps at least a month's supply of t/p... If the eats get thin, there's always Mr. Bigglesworth the cat... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 16:33:08 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=DxNLFSUPuKa+qugBMwLBlmaUly6lUJHPZooXzch7eFQAdmSI1c0j0XGJgHixsfDpGAV648P6mj2AsZlXlWM3U4encuFaDy+GTgiQ64ZlVmRsYPQb8suU2cllQVzpAWkiDJontTjdFZH+N4N1CD2ltfnwPsy9FKY4kYVNYSBG9b0= ; Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:32:49 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes, I plan to go. Have you heard anything about it yet? I don't remember seeing any announcement about the PARR Polar Bear Ride for this year. Leon --- Chris Norloff wrote: > P.S. Hi Leon! Going for a New Year's ride? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 17:29:44 2004 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:29:32 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , cnorloff@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: wrong-way throttle At 04:06 PM 12/16/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Besides rolling it forward is just too weird. Since I was about four, I've >been rolling on the throttle the "right" way and making revving >noises. If they were designed the other way you'd have learned it the other way and the current way would be weird. Brains are like that. >For the first couple of decades, that simulation was done on >a bicycle. :) Me too. Even used to put playing cards on the forks with clothespins so they'd hit the spokes and make motor noises. Wanted more horsepower, so I put on more cards...made it louder. Maybe that's why I like V-twins now? ;-) >> It would also make it easier to NOT hold the throttle open while hanging on with a death grip as the bike is getting away from you. True, but I think the current arrangement has more to do with the design of the hand than anything else. It's a lot easier to hold something from getting away from your grip than getting farther into it. If you opened the throttle by turning away, the return spring would be trying to turn the grip into your palm...which it isn't really designed to prevent. The current setup has it trying to turn out, which bunches up the padding on the fingers (kind of like a branch trying to slip out of your grip while hanging in a tree...), which resists it getting away from you. Net result is that you can hold the throttle open with a fairly relaxed grip. Since you spend more time opening the throttle than closing it, this makes for less fatigue for your hand. That's my theory anyway. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 18:05:44 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Replying to lister's various thoughts Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:04:39 -0500 I saw some AA battery powered glove liners once. Can't recall where. Might be just the thing for you though. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: , >Subject: Replying to lister's various thoughts >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500 > I an hesitant >to go heated gear because I have already had a battery related acid leak >problem that fortunately was covered by Yamaha extended service. >On the non-electrics note, I have yet to find a set of gloves that >makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise >in tolerance. >They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves >that keep your hands warm...somewhere? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 21:07:48 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kUk4UXZTzRgL8ytLwE8BIJMDdP8onn5RcBTCY7ECheyK7JUNmWs56XsDH4TIiSVZ+AKXdmPPArHXd8v/fjJrXgNAgxSvHnpvDTCdE+fMYKOtgbLJHYvQt6sUPAwrKt3ApG/9dI/Uy7auwlA0nbIxbGvLGeD3PXHOKvyRPm3p80U= ; Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Louis F. Caplan" Subject: Re: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's the official flyer. I plan to be there. http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/images/Misc/Parr-1.pdf Louis --- Leon Begeman wrote: > Yes, I plan to go. Have you heard anything about it > yet? I don't remember seeing any announcement about > the PARR Polar Bear Ride for this year. > > Leon > --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > P.S. Hi Leon! Going for a New Year's ride? > > ===== "Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 21:39:29 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Right angle-valve stems Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:39:01 -0500 When installing - note beforehand the desired final pointy side. My ravs's were initially mounted pointing left by a dealer - making it double the work to fill air on a bike with the kickstand on the left (are they ever on the right?). Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Crosswind from the right pumps my tires Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 16 23:08:40 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=NRiAs+UBHd/H2udGRNaC/CIAmRRzyYb6YTDV9ju4tflpW1A6ccMht5HK8n4wjvqSSuxgVc08X2yGYNXYt6W81voYOFWripwzo6ToCZTfHJSQYU3+5S2BTQOFPzMk2pKjjmBA9emu5S2C6YmRVwn/VNuYSy2S7I+GuurCKJkFmr8= Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:08:31 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:07:08 -0800 (PST), Louis F. Caplan wrote: > Here's the official flyer. I plan to be there. > > http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/images/Misc/Parr-1.pdf > I think I will try and make it - I don't care how cold it is, I just want to ride in Virginia again! -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 00:11:27 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=SDz8vjvma+q+fXTtIrR9QBVEECpMTne7AZN1Me6NwJAWkbkDiafHOV3N7NhnXJ0oCgeQntKOkQzpI53TyHtp+LFLrux7PKGWaVqlD5ze34XIV0vSvzgDbKrIXm3lTKk5VkJa0eB8BPXTbAlpBYX1aQaIl6oovbb0Rg9nRpy8//0= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:11:19 -0500 From: smthng else To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > On the non-electrics note, I have yet to find a set of gloves that > makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise > in tolerance. > They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves > that keep your hands warm...somewhere? The ONLY combo I've found that works worth a squat in real cold weather is a set of silk liners, heavy neoprene diving gloves (3 mil I think) and top that off with Aerostitch triple digit covers if it's REALLY bad. But... someone posted somewhere about the "new and improved" hippo hand control covers. For $51, that's way cheaper than many gloves I've paid for and hated. I'm probably going to give that a shot. I can afford to look like a dork for a couple months. Besides... I dorky MC rider is still way cooler than any cager. :P > As for deer, I have found a new behaviour, I never allowed for. I > always assumed after stories of pipelines blocking caribou migrations > that deer would elect to not attempt to cross barriers such as the wall > along the river side of Canal road. Well, when I came across a > beautiful buck standing on the wall looking down on my be-chilled, two > wheeled self, I added this behaviour as something else to watch out for. Also be aware of the ever popular "second pass" tactic they use! I've seen them run from me just to get me off my guard. They then do a quick 180 and head back at me when they reach the other side of the road. Tricky bastards! --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 09:11:54 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:10:18 -0500 I'll probably try to do the CAMS ride (assuming that there is one...) Perry >From: "Louis F. Caplan" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle >Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:07:08 -0800 (PST) > >Here's the official flyer. I plan to be there. > >http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/images/Misc/Parr-1.pdf > >Louis > >--- Leon Begeman wrote: > > > Yes, I plan to go. Have you heard anything about it > > yet? I don't remember seeing any announcement about > > the PARR Polar Bear Ride for this year. > > > > Leon > > --- Chris Norloff wrote: > > > P.S. Hi Leon! Going for a New Year's ride? > > > > > > >===== >"Admiral" Louis Caplan 1998 Kawasaki Concours Fairfax, VA >Please consider helping me support the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation >http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/rideforkids.htm > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 09:53:36 2004 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:55:43 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: David Blumgart Subject: Montgomery College (MD) MSF site? I've seen a Web page with the Montgomery County Community College schedule for MSF RiderCourse sign-ups. I can't seem to locate it now. Anyone have the URL handy? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 10:10:19 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Fu4YtROCF4wM8afdxKfZrkcGANnwd8cu9eAalc1NGJYpbzqqoxoiuBy7sY8Dg5/00v+r5+z3fe5t7YuvL0KCYdDkAg1qgSXfIN/UxO4PtOw4BIoNbrWvKHUHNVauf1JqowLPT4iysr5uSv5Abm8DQsC/B/OOCCxqWODy8jbqITg= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:10:11 -0500 From: Han Park To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: wrong-way throttle Would be harder to blip the throttle and hold the brake as well with the "reverse throttle". How would the squids to smokey burnouts? :) (Also road racers would have a harder time rev-matching when downshifting under braking). han From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 10:13:13 2004 Subject: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:13:11 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Looking forward to seeing everyone this Sunday at the Irish Inn. I have let them know we are coming and I am looking forward to a great meal and a chance to get caught up. Once again it is Time: December 19th, 11:45 AM Location: The Irish Inn Glen Echo, MD The Irish Inn 6119 Tulane Ave. Glen Echo, MD 301-229-6600 Very, very easy to get to from Canal Road and lots of parking. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 10:48:52 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=A6/ZmOrE6EQr8ZpCJe8rEycPie7K4oqJiolH0wPwFWyQk9JFL36uEPb5cB6wN1e674BUKiziyTfdqxnpPbVNA3amgtCb2qZRVVReVgLFBG4ZPdYMCT4Hvrq40XlUV1AZbjtkXXIoYaQPz+qlqJn7mOU5YGwAk42a1DvDBd+zCGU= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:48:43 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: David Blumgart , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Montgomery College (MD) MSF site? http://www.marylandmva.com/MVAProg/moto/montgomery.htm On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:55:43 -0500, David Blumgart wrote: > I've seen a Web page with the Montgomery County Community College schedule > for MSF RiderCourse sign-ups. I can't seem to locate it now. Anyone have > the URL handy? -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 13:48:12 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=sq5uhsYet4gGkId28Xk5z8ABQa/GvaiWcgjQ2JPsKFRknOFRuMPuwSyaqU03HPebWswWGRnx932FpBk4kouU5kiR0KNvgpZR4SQ8/cmcOVpenhy5J6OhxMhdARga+TDRGWG+oURkTm+MbC9fA5MZy46ZPh/CmlUo/O3mJTM4LNw= Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:48:00 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: Perry Coleman Subject: Re: New Year's Day ride, was wrong-way throttle Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > I'll probably try to do the CAMS ride (assuming that there is one...) I'd be up to riding with Dr. John and the group - Are you out there John? Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 17:01:03 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: you@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:02:38 -0500 While I don't ride in the cold much, I have a pair of EMS cold weather rock climbing gloves. They are wind "proof" and my hands were sweating after a brisk ride in 30 degree weather at highway speeds. Rob On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:11:19 -0500, smthng else wrote > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500, Julian Halton > wrote: > > On the non-electrics note, I have yet to find a set of gloves that > > makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise > > in tolerance. > > They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves > > that keep your hands warm...somewhere? > > The ONLY combo I've found that works worth a squat in real cold > weather is a set of silk liners, heavy neoprene diving gloves (3 mil > I think) and top that off with Aerostitch triple digit covers if > it's REALLY bad. > > But... someone posted somewhere about the "new and improved" hippo > hand control covers. For $51, that's way cheaper than many gloves > I've paid for and hated. I'm probably going to give that a shot. I > can afford to look like a dork for a couple months. Besides... I > dorky MC rider is still way cooler than any cager. :P > > > As for deer, I have found a new behaviour, I never allowed for. I > > always assumed after stories of pipelines blocking caribou migrations > > that deer would elect to not attempt to cross barriers such as the wall > > along the river side of Canal road. Well, when I came across a > > beautiful buck standing on the wall looking down on my be-chilled, two > > wheeled self, I added this behaviour as something else to watch out for. > > Also be aware of the ever popular "second pass" tactic they use! > I've seen them run from me just to get me off my guard. They then > do a quick 180 and head back at me when they reach the other side of > the road. Tricky bastards! > > --smthng > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 17:12:11 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Paul Wilson , Julian Halton , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:13:53 -0500 Having lived in the snow capital of the north east (upstate ny) I have two shovels and 50 lbs of salt in my garage ready to rock. They best part about snow is when the SUV driver realize that 4WD doesn't actually help you stop faster, it only helps you get out of control faster :) Rob On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:16:43 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote > Ya need to try my Gerbing's heated gloves. (Pretty warm w/o the > juice even.) Weather's looking pretty crapulent for Sunday, so > I'll let you try 'em in person. :-) I hear the fear and loathing rising > already among the Washington Weather Weenies at the prospect of > crystalline precipitation at ground level. The "s" word's been > mentioned on the radio. Eeeek! This part of the near-South is the > warmest place I've ever lived, so I find the whole thing worth a > chuckle, or three. > > On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500, Julian Halton > wrote: > > I have yet to find a set of gloves that > > makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise > > in tolerance. > > They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves > > that keep your hands warm...somewhere? > > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 17 17:37:56 2004 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:37:46 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts At 05:13 PM 12/17/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Having lived in the snow capital of the north east (upstate ny) I have two >shovels and 50 lbs of salt in my garage ready to rock. They best part about >snow is when the SUV driver realize that 4WD doesn't actually help you stop >faster, it only helps you get out of control faster :) True, but it does help you steer better than not in snow...if you keep within reasonable speed limits...for the same reason front-wheel drives do. Many 4WD drivers think it makes them immune to traction loss, and just like most other cage operators they don't have a clue what to do when that happens. Can't figure out why they don't learn it...playing in a snowy parking lot (empty of course) to learn that stuff is a lot of fun! On a bike a severe loss of traction on both wheels is a lot bigger problem in the long run, but in the short run there isn't one. You don't really need to decide what to do about it...the bike "just knows", and you fall down. ;-) -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 18 00:11:23 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:11:10 EST Subject: Re: Chillin', Survivin' in the City To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/16/2004 9:15:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, mriderleon@XXXXXX writes: > When it happened to me, I reconnected the throttle > return cable to open the throttle. Return cable? We did not have any stinking return cables. What we had was front brake cables. Remove the brake cable from the lever, tie/clamp the broken end of the throttle cable to the lever. Squeeze the front brake to go, ease it out to slow. > It was rather > weird for the first few miles It was rather weird all the way home... Squeeze the brake lever as you ease out the clutch lever to go. In on the clutch lever out on the brake lever to shift. WHOOO HOOO!!! BTW: you can shift a bike without a clutch, you can even stop and go with a little skill, but it is a bitch. MSF says if you are in a place where stopping is dangerous, or if you are in the middle of nowhere just shift without using the clutch until you have to stop, or you are in a good place to stop. Then just as you come to a stop hit the engine cut off switch to keep the bike from jerking as it tries to idle, dragging you along. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 18 00:13:12 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:13:01 EST Subject: Re: Mo. Co. Smartgrowth To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/16/2004 2:41:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, lisagoddard@XXXXXX writes: > I don't think they were expecting that answer. And I for one do not expect anyone will ever know they got it. But I love your answer. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 18 00:38:37 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:38:24 EST Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/16/2004 3:06:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > because I have already had a battery related acid leak > problem If the problem was a bad battery, as it would appear to be then the load on the battery was irrelevant to the problem. Electric gear should not cause that problem, get some. I LOVE!!! mine. (I tend to ride home from work at 11:00_pm._) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 18 20:28:41 2004 Subject: RE: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:28:38 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "Julian Halton" , > Looking forward to seeing everyone this Sunday at the Irish > Inn. I have let them know we are coming and I am looking > forward to a great meal and a chance to get caught up. Once > again it is I shall definitely be there, but... Is it safe to assume that Canal Road and Macarthur Blvd are the same? I'm just checking my map software and it's using slightly different names. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 19 08:20:50 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=BPE2CN27z+RyNp3gX0ZCE0WuIoD9Qgf72/orZzLORk3YFn2VxIxs7X72C12J/c9ysCi1j5GpAT0eTBfqjf2mKs4jrznAntSc8aovE3OTf7BAAWGw20Wlpi7gJz7ed0gUJqlmpuVsfN2W4+n1/vM4HFsuCwPsBBL46N0Kkx3cSro= ; Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 05:20:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX no, they're not the same. canal road ends at macarthur in glen echo. continuing on the westward path that canal was taking puts you on the clara barton (?) parkway towards potomac. --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" wrote: > > Looking forward to seeing everyone this Sunday at the > Irish > > Inn. I have let them know we are coming and I am > looking > > forward to a great meal and a chance to get caught up. > Once > > again it is > > I shall definitely be there, but... Is it safe to assume > that Canal > Road and Macarthur Blvd are the same? I'm just checking > my map software > and it's using slightly different names. > > --smthng > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 19 09:27:45 2004 Subject: RE: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:27:43 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Subject: RE: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! > no, they're not the same. canal road ends at macarthur in > glen echo. continuing on the westward path that canal was > taking puts you on the clara barton (?) parkway towards potomac. I got it now... Canal road becomes Clara Barton. Not a problem. See y'all there. :) --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 19 18:26:09 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ofReViNu35L2rIm1wh4XVa9tQoDnlyw3ZJ2Evhtn2RZKTSGXFjuKKPtLFG4WbdJR2GDX/2hS5LldzvYWbZ6OfOTvge73rQENtwfodadCJip6YQTZ3t7NfsN59zkSxTcc7r82Hzv8jkVXMgBcvwBCkUia4D5swYES5S601ALlhd4= Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:25:47 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Subject: Re: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Clara Barton Pkwy. begins at the intersection at the DC end of Chain Bridge. Canal Rd. runs east from there. Good to see you guys at the Old Irish Inn, and glad we managed to get in a short ride before the (eek!) snow hit. On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 09:27:43 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > > I got it now... Canal road becomes Clara Barton. Not a problem. See > y'all there. :) > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 07:15:46 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=RROumB7F5KsI5Jp6uQn/QEpVtz/FQxLkSU1O+E3Ycea4VWGvRBS5IoExOmmE9mcI+xjFO+5QGf2o/2w/ga2jubBxyrG3KJJysbpWwJKslNIJAL1wzAm1w+Gs7UnMTUt1ipLik90kKCfD4bOdXFzCj/05EKfS0Yn7Qofk/ODJR0s= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:15:42 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: OK, so who did? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak up. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 07:44:13 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=racOzEPURjHWvM5ww9dVHwIffRSkUYRZx2zS85rn8m6JID7SGmcasdvpkM40xso9fWgGZYROHpoPUyLfzqIpXhvVU0/0U7ml/eq6vo3E8ZIfj5iHHh+xB7irhw6nN0ap1VGIi7A3Mh1Uvl0yi2R3jsLNo2g8rKYQgxU9wRPcsiQ= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: OK, so who did? To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX bartman did.... had to leave the vents on his jacket open. --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > up. > > Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:18:59 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OK, so who did? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:18:50 -0500 5 degrees was way way too cold for me. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: OK, so who did? I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak up. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:32:24 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:32:19 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: RE: OK, so who did? I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:18:50 -0500 >5 degrees was way way too cold for me. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] >Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 7:16 AM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: OK, so who did? > >I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak >up. > >Glenn > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:34:01 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=BAXq0L/Dl6YX9abZT2tOf8c72lr3SGM4R1ozPDaI6SONDQq8QTNUWrY1m5pCTmBIkgKczFZoFYBJEessAbbnX0HpZzcbGBFYBGwSKiplJ8Z4+iKwcW+vnEqG2YOIVsUOkP7/UF3qr3QQlKsWz2MhZxovlPfsYW12yJs+0pOAoVQ= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 05:33:54 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Schmidt Subject: RE: OK, so who did? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I will be when I have to tonight. Sometimes working at a theatre in town is a B.... But I can't complain, I love riding and I like to think that the joy will never wear off. Plus I won't be able to ride for a week due to a trip I'm taking to go out to the land of snow for some christmas snowboarding and skiing. Ian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:34:49 2004 Subject: RE: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:34:45 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:dcmcrider@XXXXXX] > Subject: Re: Holiday brunch this Sunday ! > Good to see you guys at the Old Irish Inn, and glad we > managed to get in a short ride before the (eek!) snow hit. 'Twas indeed! Wish I'd had a bit more time for some more riding, but it was good anyway. Sorry I won't be able to make the PAR ride on New Years, but I'll be in (hopefully sunny) Florida with a tent and loaded saddlebags. :) It was kind of funny driving out to the store last night... I was driving along, watching the snow swirl across the street while my truck was telling my it was 20 degrees, thinking "Hah! I was out riding earlier today!" All in all, a good day indeed! --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:35:46 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=fnfwG+LhMoHXgKYNQuPAqPZHCPP55Ktdr/7peG4jacY8cESMWSp45pAsE1bTLkBB5XuGi/4bYottA4jr+LeAeUfd9cwjMA5I7zHHyqZhxd5JBNrGT2t7l1QUIH94+4ODdp+hArZahHe6CDLHnsTdN/Amlc5xzDczxsAEN85esnM= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:35:39 -0500 From: Robert To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OK, so who did? I spotted one fearless rider, on what looked like a middle-aged standard (Suzuki GS750/1000 perhaps) on the on-ramp to 66 headed into DC this AM. Wearing the approved snowmobile suit... I drove the car, nine degrees was a tad too chilly for a non-electric ride. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 7:16 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: OK, so who did? > > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > up. > > Glenn > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:38:14 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OK, so who did? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:38:03 -0500 10 you had a heat wave. LOL -----Original Message----- From: Chris Norloff [mailto:cnorloff@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OK, so who did? I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:18:50 -0500 >5 degrees was way way too cold for me. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] >Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 7:16 AM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: OK, so who did? > >I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak >up. > >Glenn > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 08:40:03 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:58:38 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: OK, so who did? On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Chris Norloff wrote: > I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. > > And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. > > Chris What kind of bike/sidecar do you have, Chris? -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 09:03:21 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:03:17 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: RE: OK, so who did? 1981 Honda CB750F with a Russian-built Jupiter sidecar from the '70's. The sidecar weighs about 150 lb., all metal body, sliding nose to make it easier to get in. Nothing fancy, but does the job! Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Wayne Edelen Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 08:58:38 -0500 (EST) >On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Chris Norloff wrote: > >> I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. >> >> And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. >> >> Chris > > >What kind of bike/sidecar do you have, Chris? > >-- Wayne > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 09:20:22 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=iIALPhXN7EhNz+wrcCFUblfNvFWm++viFHBMQs6rS4MiT+u+7iewMNgroRT/cMz6AQ3hXNkCElewQZt0rgSWeJzkoIo+LJq0rPZj02c2zCk0dh4v1k08Q+AWF825JafSU3N9+uOjorjUb91u5bKMZ5Y332fZ3MLWtgDL9twGYnM= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:20:14 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OK, so who did? On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:15:42 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart wrote: > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > up. > > Glenn > Yup. I did. Don't know it that makes me a "hero" or just plain nuts. :) Had to do the boiling water trick on the ignition switch, though. Due to the rain yesterday, it was frozen solid. KLR fired right up on the first touch of the magic button, although she cranked really slowly. Horn button's frozen too. I was afraid to use it, for fear it would stick in the "on" position. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 09:40:30 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=PjFQnz+ANNhgjEOqa4wzPE+C1PwRC3bkGQctUJZK3CLz8ug9AYKJ9qgsXokox/MzNS6z8F+daTxvTgGjY9Wh1rf5MnYSaSlmTGY4EbmK0/9njUNikI7l0Y3JGL/aLpbwQaq160IxqQqR8yi4Cr7tYxcDwqJpXix3LxAIKzWDmjY= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:40:23 -0500 From: Aaron Maurer To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OK, so who did? Count me in. Of course, I live in DC, so no biggie. Waiting for me at the office was a new pair of winter gloves (Olympia GT4100 - primaloft insulation, goretex lining, $70 from "New Enough" leathers). They feel like they'll do the job (and aren't as bulky as I feared). Curiously, they came with a packet of Nikwax waterproofing wax for leather. If they have a Goretex lining, why the Nikwax? So that the outer layer of the glove doesn't get soaked (negating the goretex effect) I guess? On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:20:14 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:15:42 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart > wrote: > > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > > up. > > > > Glenn > > > > Yup. I did. Don't know it that makes me a "hero" or just plain nuts. > :) Had to do the boiling water trick on the ignition switch, though. > Due to the rain yesterday, it was frozen solid. > > KLR fired right up on the first touch of the magic button, although > she cranked really slowly. Horn button's frozen too. I was afraid to > use it, for fear it would stick in the "on" position. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 09:53:10 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:53:12 -0500 To: , From: "Mike B." Subject: RE: OK, so who did? At 08:32 AM 12/20/04 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. > >And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. Up here there's no snow (saw flurries last night, but there's no sign of them this morning), and the thermometer in the backyard says "10 degrees". It's sunny too, but still blowing pretty well and the radio is claiming that the chill wind factor is as low as -5. Wonder what it is at 60 mph? Looks like this was a really patchy storm as far as precip goes. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 09:53:10 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:48:39 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: OK, so who did? No, I walked. Didn't bother with the jacket at all. A T-shirt was plenty. The vents were open on the ride Saturday though, and the electric gloves had too much insulation and were too warm even with the power off so I downgraded to the "fall gloves" instead. -- Mike B. A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting. Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? At 04:43 AM 12/20/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >bartman did.... had to leave the vents on his jacket open. > >--- Glenn Dysart wrote: > >> I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak >> up. >> >> Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 10:17:32 2004 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Aaron Maurer'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: OK, so who did? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:17:15 -0500 Yep, you're right about the Gore-Tex. Gore-Tex being just a lining the outside does need to be treated. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Maurer [mailto:amaurer@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: OK, so who did? Count me in. Of course, I live in DC, so no biggie. Waiting for me at the office was a new pair of winter gloves (Olympia GT4100 - primaloft insulation, goretex lining, $70 from "New Enough" leathers). They feel like they'll do the job (and aren't as bulky as I feared). Curiously, they came with a packet of Nikwax waterproofing wax for leather. If they have a Goretex lining, why the Nikwax? So that the outer layer of the glove doesn't get soaked (negating the goretex effect) I guess? On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:20:14 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 04:15:42 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart > wrote: > > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > > up. > > > > Glenn > > > > Yup. I did. Don't know it that makes me a "hero" or just plain nuts. > :) Had to do the boiling water trick on the ignition switch, though. > Due to the rain yesterday, it was frozen solid. > > KLR fired right up on the first touch of the magic button, although > she cranked really slowly. Horn button's frozen too. I was afraid to > use it, for fear it would stick in the "on" position. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 10:30:24 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:30:22 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: RE: OK, so who did? That's the funny thing about wind chill for motorcyclists - we deal with wind chill all the time. So it's not that big a deal, relatively speaking. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Mike B." Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:53:12 -0500 >At 08:32 AM 12/20/04 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >>I rode. Took the sidecar rig out of concern for slippery spots. The back >roads were fine, dry, and white (time to start a cleaning-the-salt-off >discussion!). I-66 had some very slippery looking spots out of the main >wheel tracks - looked like possible black ice. >> >>And besides it wasn't 5 deg. at my place. It was almost 10 deg. > >Up here there's no snow (saw flurries last night, but there's no sign of >them this morning), and the thermometer in the backyard says "10 degrees". >It's sunny too, but still blowing pretty well and the radio is claiming >that the chill wind factor is as low as -5. Wonder what it is at 60 mph? > >Looks like this was a really patchy storm as far as precip goes. > > >-- >-- Mike B. > >'04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) > >Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes >is better. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 10:43:16 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=MebR02C3ydi5RpMPPDWVNi1k1FbLjHh6tB7BuMCIiZRBpfzTjxfFRLX8ECPsThR2ENcepnPyESEis9mFvTMCVh5pQ1ZkZRXiYoS7XNaHkJr4fvpTcK+exUST6nG47X7el5iDzyotwg9ClKkDzMe1UjxX8gT+pT53b8buuRC24SE= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:43:07 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: cnorloff@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles Subject: Re: OK, so who did? Wind chill (like the summertime "misery index" or whatever it's called) is mostly just to give the weather-guessers another scary statistic to hype. If you're on a bike an itty-bitty 20 mph wind from Mother Nature is pretty small potatoes. What's critical is helping people understand when frostbite begins to set in based on exposure times. By the way, in 2001 the NWS changed its wind chill methology. As you can from the chart, the old method produced dramatically lower numbers at pretty routine wind speeds. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/windchill/index.shtml On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:30:22 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: > That's the funny thing about wind chill for motorcyclists - we deal with wind chill all the time. So it's not that big a deal, relatively speaking. > > Chris > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "Mike B." > the radio is claiming > >that the chill wind factor is as low as -5. Wonder what it is at 60 mph? > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 10:53:06 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=cPQ3aO+S1LX8Us0vBduc6jsLrubs5SXQjSewiplbomKwSAvwVFBGvCS17YOIODPJqfh0UN193OQQcSu0SQZVuNn5lXMKBoC3G/pZIVj1sb2yj+dOvp8zKTabQ53WdowMVC+U/V/fGzv45ksT2QJa8o2PvCzEHRYTYfU4rfHATpM= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 07:52:32 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: OK, so who did? To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I rode. Last week someone mentioned neoprene gloves. One of my electric gloves has an open circuit, the new ones haven't arrived yet. I couldn't find my overmittens, but I did discover a pair of neogrene gloves. So I tried them. Neoprene gloves inside my winter mittens. They don't work. After 15 minutes or so I started to worry about frostbite, so I stopped, took the neoprene gloves off and warmed my hands up. I didn't put the neoprene gloves back on when I finished warming my hands, but they didn't get cold again for the second half of the ride. My hands were warmer inside my winter mittens without the neoprene than with them. If anyone wants a pair of large neoprene gloves, you can have them. Leon. --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > up. > > Glenn > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. > Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 11:11:08 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:10:56 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Replying to lister's various thoughts X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.351, required 6, AWL -1.35) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX "Mike B." wrote: > > At 05:13 PM 12/17/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >Having lived in the snow capital of the north east (upstate ny) I have two > >shovels and 50 lbs of salt in my garage ready to rock. They best part about > >snow is when the SUV driver realize that 4WD doesn't actually help you stop > >faster, it only helps you get out of control faster :) > > True, but it does help you steer better than not in snow...if you keep > within reasonable speed limits...for the same reason front-wheel drives do. > Many 4WD drivers think it makes them immune to traction loss, and just > like most other cage operators they don't have a clue what to do when that > happens. Can't figure out why they don't learn it...playing in a snowy > parking lot (empty of course) to learn that stuff is a lot of fun! my dad took me out to a parking lot in the snow when I was about 14, put me in the driver's seat and taught me how to do doughnuts. the thing about learning how to make it spin is that you learn how to make it not spin at the same time. when the cop showed up dad tried to explain the point of the lesson, but the cop was not pleased. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 11:30:45 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:30:38 -0500 From: corey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re[2]: Replying to lister's various thoughts X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - victory.vs4dns.net X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - egoinc.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: i made myself dizzy doing some 'winter training' in the potomac mills parking lots last night. found out that these new bridgestone duelers make doughnuts much less fun. which is probably a good thing. ---------------------- corey Monday, December 20, 2004, 11:10:56 AM, you wrote: s> "skip " wrote: s> my dad took me out to a parking lot in the snow when I was about 14, put s> me in the driver's seat and taught me how to do doughnuts. the thing s> about learning how to make it spin is that you learn how to make it not s> spin at the same time. when the cop showed up dad tried to explain the s> point of the lesson, but the cop was not pleased. s> --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 13:49:21 2004 Subject: Re: OK, so who did? From: lister lynch To: Glenn Dysart Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 13:49:57 -0500 Had to whack the ice off the Corbin and press the starter button a little longer than usual, but the electrics worked great! The only bit of cold was my toes. Mike On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 07:15, Glenn Dysart wrote: > I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > up. > > Glenn > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 15:34:14 2004 Subject: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:34:09 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: I was lucky enough to get some free instruction this weekend. I learned a lot- too much to process in one day. I did not realize that motorcycle riding could involve so many little muscles so I got to thinking about the relationship between physical conditioning and riding. The guy recommended I get some kind of balance board. Anyone have other recommendations for good conditioning exercises for riding. Based on muscle soreness: - adductor\abductor machines for using the thigh muscles to hold the bike - flexibility exercises for the neck and shoulders when craning your head in a lean - lower back for position changes - balance exercises and I would guess something for fluidity: moving the hip shoulder and elbow and head at once and doing it smoothly Learned a lot and was sore. Coming from a gym rat and someone who runs a lot it was a disturbing surprise to realize I can still be so sore the next day. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 15:54:09 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:54:11 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c13696044166f2a0fa877737f5f15fe6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Anyone have other recommendations for good conditioning exercises for riding. [Dave] Not singling out any particular marque, like one who's name rhymes with "hardly ableson", but there are a lot of out of shape, and downright fat bikers... Of course, the title of this thread is addressed specifically to sport biking... Still, plenty of us aren't shining examples of fitness. 2 simple things I find effective. 1: one of those gripper exercisers (whatever they're called). For that matter, unless you're particularly strong in the hand... like say, a pit bull, a tennis ball will do in a pinch. Especially helpful if you type for a living, have carpal tunnel, shoot a lot, etc. I had an unfortunate mishap about 10 years back in which I managed to cut into the tendon of my left thumb. I *thought* I was rehabilitated when riding season rolled around a couple months later, but I only managed a few clutch pulls, and I was totally unable to work the clutch... That kept me sidelined for a couple weeks. You should also stretch your hands / fingers periodically. 2: Simple stretching - like you're supposed to do before running. Based on muscle soreness: - adductor\abductor machines for using the thigh muscles to hold the Bike [Dave] Or, sit ups & crunches. - flexibility exercises for the neck and shoulders when craning your head in a lean [Dave] Don't get carried away and try that "Exorcist head roll" ;-) OTOH, the fat bikers seem to be a lot more cold tolerant than I... YMMV Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 16:01:19 2004 Subject: Cold weather riding tonight Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:01:15 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: I am going to try an arlington to bethesda trip and back to bartend tonight. The gear: Fieldsheer jacket Cycling ful length spandex Jeans Sidi Vertebrae boots Balaclava And I am going to try this combo - cashmere lined Ken Cole gloves underneath my Icon patrol gloves As long as I do not get frostbite I will be content. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 16:08:28 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:08:25 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding At 03:34 PM 12/20/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Anyone have other recommendations for good conditioning exercises for riding. How about riding? I've always felt that the best way to condition muscles for a particular activity is to do that activity a lot. >Based on muscle soreness: > >- adductor\abductor machines for using the thigh muscles to hold the >bike The Nautilus machines are generally great for conditioning muscles and the body in general, but only when used as designed...which is NOT the way the average stupid jock you'll find in the gyms use them. Basically, you start with machines for large muscles (leg press, and extend, leg curl, hip and back, etc.) and work down to the small muscles (triceps, neck, etc.). On each machine you do 8-15 reps. If you can do more than 15 reps two visits in a row you need more weight. If you can't do 8 you have too much weight. If you don't have to wait for some stupid jock doing "sets" you will get a decent aerobic workout from this too...takes about 45 minutes to hit every machine they made back when I was going to a Nautilus-owned place that enforced the recommended usage practices. Start with a warmup on a stationary bike, then run through the machines and go on about your business. Do this three times a week and in a couple of months none of your clothes will fit anymore...and it will seem that someone has reduced the gravity of the planet significantly. In H.S. and college I couldn't do a pullup, but in my mid-20s after using Nautilus machines as recommended 3 times a week for 3 months I almost overshot the top of a pole I decided to climb, going up hand over hand without legs...it was effortless. Finding a place that has all the machines, laid out properly, and that enforces the usage practices so you can get full benefit from them is not easy. The place I used to go was at White Flint Mall and folded up a couple of decades ago. >- flexibility exercises for the neck and shoulders when craning your >head in a lean Check out what they do to loosen up at the start of an Aikido class. A decent full body stretch with a lot of concentration on the arms and neck. >- lower back for position changes >- balance exercises and I would guess something for fluidity: moving >the hip shoulder and elbow and head at once and doing it smoothly Aikido should help with both of those...particularly the last one. It's all about balance...keeping yours and taking theirs. It can also teach you some mental tricks so you can look at the pothole without heading towards it. ;) >Learned a lot and was sore. Coming from a gym rat and someone who runs >a lot it was a disturbing surprise to realize I can still be so sore the >next day. Depends what muscles are in use, as you suggested up front. Even the Nautilus machines didn't get me ready for ice skating...that muscle on the inside of your foot that you use to keep it vertical when standing on a blade seems to only get worked out by ice skating...and it feels like a small angry dog has hold of your arch after an hour of skating if it's not in shape! Good luck! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 16:32:18 2004 Subject: Warming up the bike Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:32:16 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: I typically make my escape from job 1 at 4:45 PM, Monday's. I have gotten in the habit of starting my bike at 4:25PM, playing with the choke and then letting it idle until the temperature goes to 120 fahrenheit. My theory being that fifteen to twenty minutes later, it will take less time to warm up my bike and get going..am I being silly? -----Original Message----- From: Mike B. [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding At 03:34 PM 12/20/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Anyone have other recommendations for good conditioning exercises for riding. How about riding? I've always felt that the best way to condition muscles for a particular activity is to do that activity a lot. >Based on muscle soreness: > >- adductor\abductor machines for using the thigh muscles to hold the >bike The Nautilus machines are generally great for conditioning muscles and the body in general, but only when used as designed...which is NOT the way the average stupid jock you'll find in the gyms use them. Basically, you start with machines for large muscles (leg press, and extend, leg curl, hip and back, etc.) and work down to the small muscles (triceps, neck, etc.). On each machine you do 8-15 reps. If you can do more than 15 reps two visits in a row you need more weight. If you can't do 8 you have too much weight. If you don't have to wait for some stupid jock doing "sets" you will get a decent aerobic workout from this too...takes about 45 minutes to hit every machine they made back when I was going to a Nautilus-owned place that enforced the recommended usage practices. Start with a warmup on a stationary bike, then run through the machines and go on about your business. Do this three times a week and in a couple of months none of your clothes will fit anymore...and it will seem that someone has reduced the gravity of the planet significantly. In H.S. and college I couldn't do a pullup, but in my mid-20s after using Nautilus machines as recommended 3 times a week for 3 months I almost overshot the top of a pole I decided to climb, going up hand over hand without legs...it was effortless. Finding a place that has all the machines, laid out properly, and that enforces the usage practices so you can get full benefit from them is not easy. The place I used to go was at White Flint Mall and folded up a couple of decades ago. >- flexibility exercises for the neck and shoulders when craning your >head in a lean Check out what they do to loosen up at the start of an Aikido class. A decent full body stretch with a lot of concentration on the arms and neck. >- lower back for position changes >- balance exercises and I would guess something for fluidity: moving >the hip shoulder and elbow and head at once and doing it smoothly Aikido should help with both of those...particularly the last one. It's all about balance...keeping yours and taking theirs. It can also teach you some mental tricks so you can look at the pothole without heading towards it. ;) >Learned a lot and was sore. Coming from a gym rat and someone who runs >a lot it was a disturbing surprise to realize I can still be so sore >the next day. Depends what muscles are in use, as you suggested up front. Even the Nautilus machines didn't get me ready for ice skating...that muscle on the inside of your foot that you use to keep it vertical when standing on a blade seems to only get worked out by ice skating...and it feels like a small angry dog has hold of your arch after an hour of skating if it's not in shape! Good luck! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 16:58:14 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: Warming up the bike Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:58:17 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79d15e95935201fc790d78adbcf60f0beb350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c JH: I typically make my escape from job 1 at 4:45 PM, Monday's. I have gotten in the habit of starting my bike at 4:25PM, playing with the choke and then letting it idle until the temperature goes to 120 fahrenheit. My theory being that fifteen to twenty minutes later, it will take less time to warm up my bike and get going..am I being silly? [Dave] Silly? No. I'd be willing to bet your theory is not true though. Which do you think will warm the bike faster from a cold start - 20 minutes idling, or 20 minutes of mixed light load? Just don't beat on it while it's cold. I'll do this to a cage so I can use the HEAT, but that's not really a concern on the bike. If your bike won't hold idle when it's cold, that's different, but I don't know of many that have this behavior. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 17:31:49 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:31:48 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Warming up the bike At 04:32 PM 12/20/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >I typically make my escape from job 1 at 4:45 PM, Monday's. I have >gotten in the habit of starting my bike at 4:25PM, playing with the >choke and then letting it idle until the temperature goes to 120 >fahrenheit. My theory being that fifteen to twenty minutes later, it >will take less time to warm up my bike and get going..am I being silly? No, but if you took the warmup time and backed off from 4:45 by that much instead of doing your startup at 4:25 you'd save some gas. Warm up, cool down somewhat, warm up again and ride eats more than warm up and ride from the cold starting temp. You basically waste the fuel it took to re-heat the bike by whatever amount it cools between the first shutdown and the next startup. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 19:05:21 2004 From: "Doug Allis" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: OK, Who rode in to work today? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:03:22 -0500 Yep I got to brag that I did. And I am leaving right now for a nice trip home. Looking forward to it actually. It was a nice balmy 9 degrees this am in sunny Springfield VA when I left at 8:00. No snow, but enough dried salt on the road to last for the rest of the winter. And I'm annoyed. I didn't even get to use the snowblower yesterday. WHAT SNOW IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT ON THE NEWS? teeeeee From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 19:18:39 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=WAaXCPmuBRhagDvLhURGXk5tC0wDgTxpjZUAKk5kSNiSJeIGxeWTQSMt/r6XMJtm9QgVNEBgFtoZaa+J1awiPiJ/G/wErJLkgG0iAHFtARR4AwK29FPwpxJLaMR1/Mr3QrfVt/LFB6/Me5I7VtLDyLHKCu+P4xZg2KQc/YA1JB4= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:18:31 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Fingers are still recovering To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Rode in this morning, and I still feel it in my fingers. Got lots of comments about how insane I am, which somehow makes me feel good. Bike took a bit longer to start (no garage at my place), but still fired up when it had to. If tomorrow is just as brutal, I may take roads w/ traffic lights instead of the expressway. A bit longer, but lower speeds. jib 2001 Suzuki Marauder 22,472 miles __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 21:21:02 2004 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:39:33 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Julian Halton wrote: > Learned a lot and was sore. Coming from a gym rat and someone who runs > a lot it was a disturbing surprise to realize I can still be so sore the > next day. 2 things come to mind when reading this thread... I think that being in good shape is a must for life in general. Too many benefits to list here :-) Your average person could spend as little as 1hr each day, 4 days/week and be in excellent physical condition. For beginners, I'd recommend getting with a good trainer. They can teach you how to properly use machines, free weights, body weight conditioning, plyometrics and other exercises that you may not be able to master on your own. I don't find that riding a sportbike is any more physically demanding than riding a cruiser or any other bike. Take a look around at the lumps riding all different kinds of bikes. I wouldn't say that sportbike riders are any more fit than other riders. If you're riding so hard on the street that you're really getting a 'workout', you should park your bike and get to the track. A spirited backroad romp doesn't take much out of you, IMO. :-) Just my .02. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 21:34:11 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=rA2Vhc0u52j2JWxvGlhKzAOpfjpfju0/VUog1ojBBpelFhy92Ag5LMtA5nKpISwZdYdz+oq7VZn5XNl5svQcPbFwR5ciGRb6ntu51u/4vAMe1u8Y9zNICnmU9KM72Sw3XtpZ1g5Ndn39f+2FfJEc3z3pB6IOLMdco23vrw6MWuY= Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:34:03 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Warming up the bike Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:32:16 -0500, Julian Halton the Global Warming / Greenhouse Gases Posterboy :) wrote: > > I typically make my escape from job 1 at 4:45 PM, Monday's. I have > gotten in the habit of starting my bike at 4:25PM, playing with the > choke and then letting it idle until the temperature goes to 120 > fahrenheit. My theory being that fifteen to twenty minutes later, it > will take less time to warm up my bike and get going..am I being silly? > Silly, not my call, but I've *never* "warmed up" a bike (or cage), not even when I lived in the Frozen North. By that I assume you mean firing it up and letting it idle for a few minutes. Cage: kick the tires, light the fires, scrape the ice and go. The bikes: choke on full and let idle until they rev smoothly. This takes literally seconds on the KLR, even at 10 degrees F, and maybe 30-45 seconds on the VFR when it's <20 F. Fastest way to get an engine up to operating temperature is to ride it, gently. I do try to avoid rocketship blast-offs on cold oil. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 22:03:00 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:03:03 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79b0893858c05cdf807c07e3cb22457cea350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c I don't find that riding a sportbike is any more physically demanding than riding a cruiser or any other bike. Take a look around at the lumps riding all different kinds of bikes. I wouldn't say that sportbike riders are any more fit than other riders. If you're riding so hard on the street that you're really getting a 'workout', you should park your bike and get to the track. A spirited backroad romp doesn't take much out of you, IMO. :-) [Dave] Maybe I *might* be overdoing it JUST a bit then. Since I've never had a bike less than 500 pounds, I'd bet a 10R or R1 would be absolute shock to me. I did notice a significant difference in reduced effort when I swapped the stock boat anchor zx11 hoops for the PM wheels. And yes, I've been a bit taxed after a couple of trips through somewhat technical but not necessarily all out fast stretches of asphalt. YMMV From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 22:14:53 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: OK, so who did? Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:14:11 -0500 "Chris Norloff" cnorloff@XXXXXX wafted this our way - That's the funny thing about wind chill for motorcyclists - we deal with wind chill all the time. So it's not that big a deal, relatively speaking. ----- "Wind Chill" deals with exposed flesh, little of which we fortunately have in appropriate conditions. Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Never have seen "brittle scales" for leather and steel. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 22:40:35 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Pocket police guide Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:40:05 -0500 Stumbled into this - a guide from the ACLU for dealing with police stops of various kinds. It's set up for either webpage or pocket-handy. (Note the currency disclaimer at the top - an update might be lurking someplace.) I've seen bike-specific road stop hints in the past involving un-helmeting and keeping hands in sight even when going for papers. http://archive.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html Any critiques from the counselors? Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Careful. There're rattlesnakes in my saddlebags. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 20 22:56:29 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=lO8IP+Da9nx9eOud7xWik2yfb0wxYNGA48bLaZMxz2Gkrl4bJKMrjEZzDM4MQ8XAkB9Z0p4afKeqALtNEbMS7G2ugjR9oaRMMsc/uxEGbQIrMRIDU+5o8lWeXwflt1bA8JQeAgVD0HeS4FM8XJEYVY7UkABioQPvzWADN6fY48o= ; Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:56:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: OK, so who did? To: "Mike B." , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Mike B." wrote: > No, I walked. Didn't bother with the jacket at all. A > T-shirt was plenty. > > The vents were open on the ride Saturday though, and the > electric gloves > had too much insulation and were too warm even with the > power off so I > downgraded to the "fall gloves" instead. > > -- > Mike B. > > A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by > top-posting. > Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)? > A: Because it messes up the order in which people > normally read text. > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? take the not-so-subtle hint. the next time you feel like sharing your vent status, remember that many of us don't give a shit what you did on your last 20 mile ride. > At 04:43 AM 12/20/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >bartman did.... had to leave the vents on his jacket > open. > > > >--- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > > >> I know one of you heros had to ride in today. Speak > >> up. > >> > >> Glenn __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 01:57:34 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 01:57:36 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: OK, so who did? At 07:56 PM 12/20/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >take the not-so-subtle hint. the next time you feel like >sharing your vent status, remember that many of us don't >give a shit what you did on your last 20 mile ride. Take the apparently too subtle response. Next time you feel like sharing your likes and dislikes, and what you decide to ASSume about what others post, remember that many of us don't give a shit what you give a shit about or don't. Stay constipated all you like. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 07:00:11 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=n8lBx2S6qQhHC6fXH2SIO3cQP3xhZ1b4ZbLex6XhfoSIiq2+2ma+nm4Wzgth3hKGb822mvS5TTdzmSE5lLHTx4BYfBPiX3HjyQUbDH1ly/DKqNW2IUqx6Z7cwr8fKZeJneRBANFc9+v2aIKg59fDviIlOcjIxJk3VP9iyBR7v+g= ; Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 04:00:00 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: OK, so who did? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Mike B." wrote: > At 07:56 PM 12/20/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >take the not-so-subtle hint. the next time you feel > like > >sharing your vent status, remember that many of us don't > >give a shit what you did on your last 20 mile ride. > > Take the apparently too subtle response. Next time you > feel like sharing > your likes and dislikes, and what you decide to ASSume > about what others > post, remember that many of us don't give a shit what you > give a shit about > or don't. Stay constipated all you like. ahh, the warmth and joy of the holiday season.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 09:23:09 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:22:56 EST Subject: Re: OK, so who did? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes, I agree. I just love a good flame-fest for the holidays. It keeps my computer keyboard nice and toasty. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 12/21/2004 7:00:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: --- "Mike B." wrote: > At 07:56 PM 12/20/04 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > > >take the not-so-subtle hint. the next time you feel > like > >sharing your vent status, remember that many of us don't > >give a shit what you did on your last 20 mile ride. > > Take the apparently too subtle response. Next time you > feel like sharing > your likes and dislikes, and what you decide to ASSume > about what others > post, remember that many of us don't give a shit what you > give a shit about > or don't. Stay constipated all you like. ahh, the warmth and joy of the holiday season.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:11:00 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=XbOYsidqQSERSg8EliD3eU8P9JibD6ow58PdFGy92itK347SF/j1zBRchxS3NqMa7fRwmGYJwBfI3IiOUEZAgfDX5pvNc/MvrnEC+EECurnac6Taua4UHRxJeUZshEnQZrtQLtGq6PCivvWe8eqNYtIpXCB0XhmlxjdgHdpd3ss= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:10:50 -0500 From: Aaron Maurer To: "W.S." Subject: Re: Pocket police guide Cc: DC-Cycles Most of it is common sense, and certainly seems to be good advice in my experience. However, off the cuff, I'm not so sure that you're allowed not to identify yourself anymore -- I think that point is a little dated in light of recent Supreme Court caselaw. On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:40:05 -0500, W.S. wrote: > Stumbled into this - a guide from the ACLU for dealing with police stops of > various kinds. It's set up for either webpage or pocket-handy. (Note the > currency disclaimer at the top - an update might be lurking someplace.) > > I've seen bike-specific road stop hints in the past involving un-helmeting > and keeping hands in sight even when going for papers. > > http://archive.aclu.org/library/bustcard.html > > Any critiques from the counselors? > > Bill S. / DC (on digest) > > '99 VN750 > Careful. There're rattlesnakes in my saddlebags. > > Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:17:13 2004 Subject: The Arlington to Bethesda and back report Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:17:07 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Ballston to Key Bridge was decent, despite the crappy white clouds of metal corroding salt blanketing the roads. By Arizona Blvd my fingers were still tingling. By the time I hit Dalecarlia, I was in some serious pain. River Road, couldn't move my fingers and all I cared about was stopping. Had to force myself into that mental zone when you disconnect from your body. Somehow made it to my bar. Spent ten minutes in the kitchen with my hands above the grill before the icy fire diminished. Would I do this again? No. Thanks to a certain client named Cliff, my ride home was toasty due to .99 cent Grabber McCool heat packs that supposedly last for 7 hours. Cliff braved the chill to walk to Modell's and purchase these for me which allowed me to ride home. These silly litle things made worlds of difference. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:19:00 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:18:47 -0500 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: Re: Pocket police guide At 10:10 AM 12/21/2004, you wrote: >Most of it is common sense, and certainly seems to be good >advice in >my experience. However, off the cuff, I'm not so sure >that you're >allowed not to identify yourself anymore -- I think that >point is a >little dated in light of recent Supreme Court caselaw. WHAT!!? Now the Supreme Court has their own *coleslaw*???? That's ridiculous! This is the kind of crap that OUR tax dollars is going to? I guess the local cafeteria's coleslaw just isn't GOOD ENOUGH for them?!!??!?? Maybe they think regular Joe Schmoe cabbage is just too COMMON for their hoity toity taste buds! Maybe we should just......What? Oh... *caselaw.* never mind.... (In memory of Rosanne Rosanna Danna) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:19:13 2004 Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Agreed, My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises will make me a better rider. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:21:15 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=evM96r7vCRgCzqmjqJ4k6Z5g+M6F49/MOVAtlGeXAicBWZiQZaxn/wvbQeMxxnmkhCD86k4A8kx9KpwihbLQQ+too8KFicg5nlOLcg4prWBXHHwZ5ECgSjArwu6EuYXGbnVTX5fsRJDaF6Qz5EeMT4LNflJRbmuA6MjYvsBoDp4= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:21:06 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Aaron Maurer Subject: Re: Pocket police guide Cc: "W.S." , DC-Cycles On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:10:50 -0500, Aaron Maurer wrote: > Most of it is common sense, and certainly seems to be good advice in > my experience. However, off the cuff, I'm not so sure that you're > allowed not to identify yourself anymore -- I think that point is a > little dated in light of recent Supreme Court caselaw. > The case was Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Circuit, decided this past June. Google away, folks. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:28:03 2004 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: Pocket police guide Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:27:54 -0500 No, No, No. That was Emily Litella. Really. mutter, mutter LindaT. www.CustomTankBags.com Hollywood, FL IBA,BMWBMW,AMA '99 R1100RT Mr Buzzy '95 F3 Purple Haze '00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing Aki Damme said: WHAT!!? Now the Supreme Court has their own *coleslaw*???? That's ridiculous! This is the kind of crap that OUR tax dollars is going to? I guess the local cafeteria's coleslaw just isn't GOOD ENOUGH for them?!!??!?? Maybe they think regular Joe Schmoe cabbage is just too COMMON for their hoity toity taste buds! Maybe we should just......What? Oh... *caselaw.* never mind.... (In memory of Rosanne Rosanna Danna) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:51:59 2004 Subject: RE: Pocket police guide Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:51:54 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DC-Cycles" > Subject: Pocket police guide > Stumbled into this - a guide from the ACLU for dealing with > police stops of various kinds. It's set up for either > webpage or pocket-handy. (Note the currency disclaimer at > the top - an update might be lurking someplace.) Updated version available here: http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9609&c=25 I can't see any real differences though. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 10:57:54 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:57:49 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Pocket police guide So the Supreme Court upheld Nevada's "stop and identify" law, as not in violation of our 4th amendment. Anybody know -right off- if Virginia, DC, or Maryland have similar "stop and identify" laws? thx Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Paul Wilson Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:21:06 -0500 >On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:10:50 -0500, Aaron Maurer wrote: >> Most of it is common sense, and certainly seems to be good advice in >> my experience. However, off the cuff, I'm not so sure that you're >> allowed not to identify yourself anymore -- I think that point is a >> little dated in light of recent Supreme Court caselaw. >> >The case was Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial Circuit, decided this past June. > Google away, folks. > > >-- >Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >95 VFR - 90 KLR > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:02:39 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:02:36 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: RE: Pocket police guide Thanks for the update. I see they added at the beginning: "Think carefully about your words, movement, body language, and emotions." Good words when dealing with an officer who doesn't know how much of a threat you may present, and who would like to go home to his family tonight. Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:51:54 -0500 >> Subject: Pocket police guide >> Stumbled into this - a guide from the ACLU for dealing with >> police stops of various kinds. It's set up for either >> webpage or pocket-handy. (Note the currency disclaimer at >> the top - an update might be lurking someplace.) > >Updated version available here: >http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9609&c=25 > >I can't see any real differences though. > >--smthng >http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:08:36 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=k9FTRzMHfBvFifdWyJX+FIEyH61nnL8n5LezokYF4csdqTFMvPJGpNHTGWRvhdc6+V3tM3zAUJlru1VSMWSkoh09Gi7Pb/WkJm+5I0e8FnzLkFeyej/zRZnGRqBc9+lQTXMP+AIgEs3QNND7uaqea7ceEyPi0oNROwd4T9gtbOY= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:08:30 -0500 From: Robert To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Pocket police guide I was ticketed a couple of weekends ago on the Dulles Tollway (cage driving), for 72 in a 55. (Paced, too, the LEO looked a bit annoyed that I hadn't gone 20+ above the limit.) I handed over the license and registration, and she came back with a request for additional ID, since my license has my mailing address on it, which is a PO Box. I'd never heard of such a requirement before, to have a physical street address ID available, and when I told her so, the LEO stated that this was necessary in order to send citations to an actual street address. Really? Is this an actual law in VA? If so, then why will the VA DMV issue you a driving license with a mailing address? Good thing I had a voter registration card handy. ;-) On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:57:49 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: > So the Supreme Court upheld Nevada's "stop and identify" law, as not in violation of our 4th amendment. > > Anybody know -right off- if Virginia, DC, or Maryland have similar "stop and identify" laws? > > thx > Chris > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:18:57 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:19:02 -0500 To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles" From: "Mike B." Subject: RE: Pocket police guide At 10:27 AM 12/21/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: >No, No, No. That was Emily Litella. > >Really. mutter, mutter > > LindaT. That's *MISS" Emily Litella. Defender of Eagle Rights and Preserver of our National Hace Horses, among other things. If we really want to confuse the yunguns with flashbacks to the 70s, maybe we should talk about Arlo Gutherie now? At least he didn't wanna pickle, just wanted to ride on his motor sickle... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:22:08 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:22:00 -0500 To: "Mike B." , "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles" From: Aki Damme Subject: RE: Pocket police guide At 11:19 AM 12/21/2004, Mike B. wrote: >At 10:27 AM 12/21/04 -0500, LindaT. wrote: > >No, No, No. That was Emily Litella. > > > >Really. mutter, mutter > > > > LindaT. > >That's *MISS" Emily Litella. Defender of Eagle Rights >and Preserver of >our National Hace Horses, among other things. > >If we really want to confuse the yunguns with flashbacks >to the 70s, maybe >we should talk about Arlo Gutherie now? At least he >didn't wanna pickle, >just wanted to ride on his motor sickle... ...and IIIIIIIIII...don't wanna die...just want to riiiiddddee my motorcyl......kul From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:22:19 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:22:22 -0500 To: Robert , DC-Cycles From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: Pocket police guide At 11:08 AM 12/21/04 -0500, Robert wrote: >to have a physical street address ID available, and when I told her >so, the LEO stated that this was necessary in order to send citations >to an actual street address. Why mail it when you are right there?? Just have you sign for it and hand it over. >Really? Is this an actual law in VA? If so, then why will the VA DMV >issue you a driving license with a mailing address? Good question. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:25:41 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=j65WSZoOLaJc5kYtCMC910gIRwb4+2qjoco2GYwi2aHNuN0yOGrdseGoVhXyhOQ1h7cn3ZDF6V//xU1ELvE+bMrk2ITVRqWWjAaTLuj+/gdgK9OoERHnBQMXy+6wfvrAfdKMDRbLkYATivRgq+EoTcMgJMM6nn14BcIvCDs+sDs= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:25:31 -0500 From: Robert To: cnorloff@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pocket police guide Cc: DC-Cycles Poolice officers kill about 400 people/suspects a year. When I've been stopped by a police officer, my risk of death is approximately ten times higher than the risk that officer faces. Not debating the need to carefully consider my actions, as noted below. Just a bit tired of hearing about police officers in fear for their lives, the implication being that this fear is enough to justify shooting me. I'd like to go home to my family tonight as well. Robert Verde On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:02:36 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: > Thanks for the update. I see they added at the beginning: > "Think carefully about your words, movement, body language, and emotions." > > Good words when dealing with an officer who doesn't know how much of a threat you may present, and who would like to go home to his family tonight. > > Chris > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:42:58 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: "'Robert'" , Cc: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Pocket police guide Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:43:01 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7917da157cdaac22a5fbeb17070a979a4a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c ... my risk of death is approximately ten times higher than the risk that officer faces. Not debating the need to carefully consider my actions, as noted below. Just a bit tired of hearing about police officers in fear for their lives, [Dave] Isn't P.O. pretty far down on the list of risky professions? I seem to recall "Crab fisherman" as being the number 1 most dangerous. What is the most dangerous? Democratic party presidential campaign manager? ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 11:55:34 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=bmx2sowY/CMb4zHk+4B6pGagrYrBT88yoBSLz98v776RWgTvQK+kN+T+7a5Ub3+ZgZ4LABPuCdixg+vdYzP82VNz/LPpzsLDtj37Mf3KpjsggaMgAPYdSopyk0gAlyCdK0uuwqAWUW2lfZceAE5hRfCGa83xZID35rFMtAVrRGE= ; Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:55:16 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Pocket police guide To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Alaskan King Crab Fisherman to be exact. I would guess regular crab fishers in the Chesapeake are not that bad. I think being on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier is up there too. Glenn --- Dave Yates wrote: I seem > to recall "Crab fisherman" as being the number 1 > most dangerous. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 12:12:28 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:12:04 -0500 From: skip To: skip Subject: Neat-o X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.256, required 6, AWL -1.26) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX I usually don't send out links, but this site had so many stunning pictures, I felt compelled to. http://www.polarimage.fi/ Happy ChristmaHunnahKwanzaaKa! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 12:14:29 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:12:31 -0500 Back when I worked out w/ the ex she had me doingthe adductor/abductor, your upper legs will be sore after the first time. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500 > >Agreed, > >My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was >still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I >don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises >will make me a better rider. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 12:18:36 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:18:22 -0500 To: "'DC-Cycles'" From: "Mike B." Subject: RE: Pocket police guide At 11:43 AM 12/21/04 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] Isn't P.O. pretty far down on the list of risky professions? I seem >to recall "Crab fisherman" as being the number 1 most dangerous. That was "Alaskan King Crab Fisherman". Being out on the Bay catching blue crabs in summer isn't all that risky... >What is the most dangerous? >Democratic party presidential campaign manager? Well, historically, "Despot" seems to be pretty high risk, and might even beat that one out. Are motor cops at higher risk than cage cops? That might be interesting, and relevant. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 12:23:25 2004 Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:23:10 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.25, required 6, AWL -1.25) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX the gym I used to go to had the leg curl machine facing the ab/ad machine. I did multiple sets on that one. rich hall wrote: > > Back when I worked out w/ the ex she had me doingthe adductor/abductor, your > upper legs will be sore after the first time. > > >From: "Julian Halton" > >To: > >Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding > >Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500 > > > >Agreed, > > > >My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was > >still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I > >don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises > >will make me a better rider. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 18:09:14 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=n774erpP3AJLmOHiRTgLfssdsEgHeZThU27nQn3sDejqOm1jSXr4AYCEbjQDm+YgtVM6iNjR7Xmpb/t39uOaOrAkvYPnHnAnsAHrvGyyeK8OKD1GHd+09OP8ZjlWmF7Vd3ewz+hO94oytPWCoWyj7U51hbePeMOlXxX6Lxk7Nc8= ; Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:09:06 -0800 (PST) From: Todd Withrow Subject: Re: Pocket police guide To: Robert , cnorloff@XXXXXX Cc: DC-Cycles --- Robert wrote: > Poolice officers kill about 400 people/suspects a > year. > shooting me. I'd like to go home to my family > tonight as well. > > Robert Verde > I had a nice well articulated rebuttal typed out, but I doubt you are worth the expenditure of bandwidth that could better be spent on spam for teeth whitener. ===== AIM: Inf DS http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow ----------------------------------------------------------- Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 18:14:31 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=E9RenyLmTsaIXjMdcs2WIMfgAFAtkB27IH/ZBOtvnbolAOor8C0OktT/7zv9fb1AXaVsxhcwcrFz18P8DmZMoyHMlNyY9WOmIczRbq9+PQ5KKjjEuvAxcSyAIfChlGxb2TqRDrwz8YHGXCevUs0DgKqU4yQCXsTb4U2SalXexsI= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:14:23 -0500 From: Robert To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Pocket police guide Mmmmm... Nice warm keyboard.... ;-) (Thanks for the imagery, Scooter!) Robert > > > I had a nice well articulated rebuttal typed out, but > I doubt you are worth the expenditure of bandwidth > that could better be spent on spam for teeth whitener. > > ===== > AIM: Inf DS > > http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 22:51:59 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:51:43 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500, you wrote: >Agreed, > >My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was >still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I >don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises >will make me a better rider. I disagree, off the bike excercise won't neccessarily make you a better rider. On the bike excersises will. You would probably be as relatively sore with any new sport. Riding is not neccessarily physically demanding activity. Given the same experience and training, a 90 pound bean pole would ride as well as a 250 pound brick house of a person. World champion riders aren't "Buff" and known for "being a better athlete with a better physique", or winning because they have done more weight training. Riding uses different muscles supporting our own body weight and positioning than our daily custom, but there isn't any controlling of the bike based on strength. The bike is controlled by manipulating control inputs (throttle, brakes, steering) more than physical force (any lifting pushing pulling). Riding is more mental than it is physical. Bigger stronger individuals aren't going to out perform weaker or heavier riders given the same experience. (experience will bring the body conditioning as needed) Better riding is based on proper education (this list is excellent), making the proper mental calculations and decisions, and lots of practice, practice, practice (which will in turn condition your body for the applicable riding). There is one aspect of riding that a healther physique is better than a less healthy physique... CRASHING.. A muscular body is going to protect bones more than a less muscular phsyique. Of course any crash could be deadly, so even then, a strong phsyique might be useless. But of course it's better to be physically healthy in life, than not, so this isn't an arguement against healthiness.. but ensure the acurate portrayal that riding isn't physically dependant. Riding definitely is a mental conditioning dependant activity. Anyone average person in any less than average condition can operate a motorcycle physically, but without a reasonable education on controlling it, they'll crash. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 22:54:28 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Aaron Maurer Cc: "W.S." , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Pocket police guide Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:54:13 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- If I recall correctly, at least in maryland, according to annoted code of MD, you do have to identify yourself, if asked by an officer. That is all you have to answer. (including providing ID) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 23:15:58 2004 Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:15:55 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX [mailto:daniel.dc@XXXXXX] > off the bike excercise won't neccessarily make you a > better rider. On the bike excersises will. You would probably be as > relatively sore with any new sport. Riding is not > neccessarily physically demanding activity. I agree whole-heartedly with one minor exception... Lower torso condition (back, abs, etc). Even if you ride a rolling couch, any decent amount of time in the saddle will be much more comfortable if you're not carrying a few cases of beer around your gut. Don't get me wrong, I'm no athlete by any means (Julian could probably bench-press me) and I *HATE* exercising, but it DOES make a difference. There is no bike that I'm aware of that lets your back and arms rest in a truly neutral position. Either you are supporting them or you're "hanging" from the grips, both of which take a certain amount of strength and control. Even just doing a decent set of crunches every day can make the difference between rides getting uncomfortable in an hour or in six hours. I can speak from experience when I say that no amount of regular street riding will do as much good to your physical comfort... In turn, that will roll right over into your mental state. An exhausted rider is a bad rider and isn't putting in as much attention to his/her surroundings as a relaxed and alert one. It used to be a physical effort for me to put in three hours of riding. Now, it's a mental effort for me to come home within 12 hours. :) Just my two cents. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 23:16:58 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=h3dfJVy+ZngXZB6OXWSjWAzWLEaDp6YXQMZPRXbhIDfj4rSazQlDiwGpbVNq3PXP+Xs6GKV0Js04AOZx7fPhbVPPjesj/wwFSVx20rpuD9ir38z3UEblcPPGSANukmJb1MGIDLsdan2PbPSfFmaanTsdE6FVOTXNBXSunVpUtFQ= Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:16:49 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:51:43 -0500, daniel.dc@XXXXXX wrote: > World champion riders aren't "Buff" > and known for "being a better athlete with a > better physique", or winning because they have done more weight > training. And yet, if you look at every rider that is running up front in national/world class roadracing events, they are in excellent physical condition - maybe not muscular hulks, but they are generally fairly strong for their individual body types. I challenge you to point out one professional, class leading (not even winning!) roadracer that is of average (or less) physical condition. > Riding uses different muscles supporting our own body weight and > positioning than our daily custom, but there isn't any controlling > of the bike based on strength. This is patently absurd. Wheels are gyroscopes, and the faster they spin, the more force is required to move them from their "preferred" state. Ergo, the faster your bike is moving, the more force is required to turn it. Having increased strength (upper-body especially) makes it much easier to control a motorcycle. > The bike is controlled by manipulating control inputs (throttle, > brakes, steering) more than physical force (any lifting pushing > pulling). Counter-steering is accomplished by: A. Throttle Inputs B. Pushing/Pulling Answer: B Draw your own conclusions . . . > Riding is more mental than it is physical. Bigger > stronger individuals aren't going to out perform weaker or heavier > riders given the same experience. (experience will bring the body > conditioning as needed) Are you making this up as you go along? Given the same levels of experience, a stronger rider will have a greater potential for better riding as speed increases. If you took Valentino Rossi, cloned him, and made the clone quit his regimen of physical conditioning, there is no way he could beat his "normal" self! > Better riding is based on proper education (this list is excellent), It scares me that anyone would find your second assertion to be true. > making the proper mental calculations and decisions, > and lots of practice, practice, practice (which will in turn condition > your body for the applicable riding). As a waiter, I walk A LOT. However, it does not "condition" my body to make me a good walker - there are more and better avenues of training available to increase my body's ability to walk, aside from just walking a great deal. > There is one aspect of riding that a healther physique is better than > a less healthy physique... CRASHING.. A muscular body is going to > protect bones more than a less muscular phsyique. Of course any crash > could be deadly, so even then, a strong phsyique might be useless. Crashing is not an aspect of riding; crashing is an aspect of crashing. I would be loathe to take any advice from someone that considers crashing to be an aspect of riding. Flexibility is a better attribute for crashing than increased muscle mass. > But of course it's better to be physically healthy in life, than not, > so this isn't an arguement against healthiness.. but ensure > the acurate portrayal that riding isn't physically dependant. The fact that you wish to portray the riding of motorcycles as a non-physical activity is astounding - have you ever ridden a motorcycle?! While there is a definite need to develop and enhance the skills used in riding a motorcycle, it is ridiculous to suggest that there is no benefit to be had from physical conditioning, and ludicrous to state that riding isn't dependant on factors of physical condition. -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 21 23:58:48 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:58:52 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec790719340a8617b3b64e5f74d2198d8cc3350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c SJ chastised: The fact that you wish to portray the riding of motorcycles as a non-physical activity is astounding - have you ever ridden a motorcycle?! [Dave] You did see this "daniel.dc@XXXXXX" right? ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 01:18:44 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ijolQmdTlS9C9+sjQjxgnC5yrYsJZs/WlNEOeYu6EYhaeefSqf8Jcu3v/03M/DdE0ZeMSlAtkwd8kFBiF4etb3hliPJ3zf8cg6W5QWJsik5uHMlv/klwhRLhRRzVihJSDT3V9VFdyN6Tr7Wm/sA7JM62EfGbFXtN0H4jXM1n618= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:18:36 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Is this the same guy that was danex250@hotmail, or something to that effect? He disappeared, and it gladdened my heart. On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:58:52 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > SJ chastised: > > The fact that you wish to portray the riding of motorcycles as a > non-physical activity is astounding - have you ever ridden a > motorcycle?! > > [Dave] You did see this "daniel.dc@XXXXXX" right? ;-) > > -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 08:53:13 2004 Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:53:09 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , Well, the majority of sports have some sort of ideal body type and for motorcycling..horse jockey comes to mind. From what I was shown this weekend, riding can be more athletic than I thought. - balls of the feet on the pegs....this involves quads, calves hamstrings. - smooth shifts of the body when setting up for a corner...(due to an old back injury I founds this challenging). The apparent effortless ease with which my friend shifted position showed a lot of athleticism more in the balance and coordination of movement. The movement he should me of moving the head, shoulder, elbow and hip at once smacked of a tai chi exercise I have seen - the less of a death grip you have on the bar, the more leg muscles will be used to hold you up From what I have seen of MOTO GP riders they are all relatively lean and conditioned. I am not talking about "buffness" just athleticism -----Original Message----- From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX [mailto:daniel.dc@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500, you wrote: >Agreed, > >My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was >still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I >don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises >will make me a better rider. I disagree, off the bike excercise won't neccessarily make you a better rider. On the bike excersises will. You would probably be as relatively sore with any new sport. Riding is not neccessarily physically demanding activity. Given the same experience and training, a 90 pound bean pole would ride as well as a 250 pound brick house of a person. World champion riders aren't "Buff" and known for "being a better athlete with a better physique", or winning because they have done more weight training. Riding uses different muscles supporting our own body weight and positioning than our daily custom, but there isn't any controlling of the bike based on strength. The bike is controlled by manipulating control inputs (throttle, brakes, steering) more than physical force (any lifting pushing pulling). Riding is more mental than it is physical. Bigger stronger individuals aren't going to out perform weaker or heavier riders given the same experience. (experience will bring the body conditioning as needed) Better riding is based on proper education (this list is excellent), making the proper mental calculations and decisions, and lots of practice, practice, practice (which will in turn condition your body for the applicable riding). There is one aspect of riding that a healther physique is better than a less healthy physique... CRASHING.. A muscular body is going to protect bones more than a less muscular phsyique. Of course any crash could be deadly, so even then, a strong phsyique might be useless. But of course it's better to be physically healthy in life, than not, so this isn't an arguement against healthiness.. but ensure the acurate portrayal that riding isn't physically dependant. Riding definitely is a mental conditioning dependant activity. Anyone average person in any less than average condition can operate a motorcycle physically, but without a reasonable education on controlling it, they'll crash. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 09:44:27 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=P02zDiIyighBpcNhKCir/11uDP6e+rD1SfkuPSrcLnvSqbrRa0/w0iYr3uSho0/w6fry3j3gi5ew5PWu5LkSC5j40ROsdyVmjZnfLv+LN9LjHFKpFArIgKC1ysQyZwaqGhLYAQnIfWDXT8MhVuvjbA5lYDBWzBGy0EDN7PfK6Fw= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:44:18 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , DC-Cycles Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:53:09 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > Well, the majority of sports have some sort of ideal body type and for > motorcycling..horse jockey comes to mind. From what I was shown this > weekend, riding can be more athletic than I thought. > > - balls of the feet on the pegs....this involves quads, calves > hamstrings. > > - smooth shifts of the body when setting up for a corner...(due to an > old back injury I founds this challenging). The apparent effortless > ease with which my friend shifted position showed a lot of athleticism > more in the balance and coordination of movement. The movement he should > me of moving the head, shoulder, elbow and hip at once smacked of a tai > chi exercise I have seen > > - the less of a death grip you have on the bar, the more leg muscles > will be used to hold you up > > From what I have seen of MOTO GP riders they are all relatively lean and > conditioned. > I am not talking about "buffness" just athleticism > Better conditioning (strength/endurance/flexibility) helps me enormously on those long days in the saddle (and, sadly, long days in the office chair.) I was seriously out of shape when I began doing multiple 600-700-800-miles-a-day touring. My first trip to Colorado I felt like I had been beaten on by the time I got there after three long days on the road. After two years of a fairly aggressive exercise program, I can ride all day, pitch a tent, sleep on ground, get up the next day and do it all over again. Perhaps they are people out there who are naturally gifted and can do these things in total comfort without an organized exercise program. I'm not one of 'em. You don't have to be a buff boy, but being in better shape helps all the way 'round, in my book. Exercise also provides mental benefits, and in my case, the discipline of a set routine. I'm not saying anyone has to sign up for a gym membership (and actually go to said gym!), but try another activity, like cycling or in-line skating to complement your moto riding. I believe there's even an article in Motorcycle Consumer News on this very subject, of providing some balance for those of us with a serious riding obsession. Heck, even taking half your lunch hour and going for a brisk walk will provide a lot of benefits. For me--YMMV--exercise also helps keep the winter blahs at bay, and that's worth a lot. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 10:55:49 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SJ2jI2Q8mQ+mtAaV0YNkMdZJLVXJ+TeZK7Cy+j37iYnLgrlUJSCRplCB05FhTcLlTKARfjnFzRAr6ez9ph8ShQlRilBxZ+y6o/lcnTRWGzAW2ANR7fIRAe9qmBdIxt5HYERRXq7ra38ZT+mIbp8MpSp8BfWDtK07bzI+yvmdm/Q= Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 10:55:31 -0500 From: Wayne Edelen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Sean Jordan wrote: > And yet, if you look at every rider that is running up front in > national/world class roadracing events, they are in excellent physical > condition - maybe not muscular hulks, but they are generally fairly > strong for their individual body types. I challenge you to point out > one professional, class leading (not even winning!) roadracer that is > of average (or less) physical condition. I think that racing a motorcycle requires different attributes, rather than all out strength. Explosive, fast movements (think body position changes in a chicane), flexibility and endurance. I don't think that physical strength is required, other than the ability to operate the controls (pull the clutch lever, twist the grip, etc). When I was at my buddy's machine shop, I helped him load up a motor for an old Hondamatic 750. The guy who owned it had 2 prosthetic arms. Although not racing, that dude didn't have much strength to apply to the controls, yet logged a lot of seat time in those old bikes. :-) > spin, the more force is required to move them from their "preferred" > state. Ergo, the faster your bike is moving, the more force is > required to turn it. Having increased strength (upper-body especially) > makes it much easier to control a motorcycle. I don't know how small you are, but even at triple digit speeds, it doesn't take much force to turn my Hayabusa. :-) A smaller supersport would require much less effort. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 15:49:03 2004 Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:48:56 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Biker down in Centreville I just heard on DC101 that a bike went down at 66 and 29 in Centreville, and they have shut down 29S and 66W for a MediVac. No details, hope the rider is OK. Saw a lot more bikes out today than I have in 2 weeks. Guess 60F brings 'us out. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 16:20:07 2004 Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:19:46 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Biker down in Centreville X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.224, required 6, AWL -1.22) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX according to my firend, who is a paramedic, if they call for the chopper, it's usually too late. However, the best care possible is from a flight medic. those guys ain't no damn joke. Troutman wrote: > > I just heard on DC101 that a bike went down at 66 and 29 in Centreville, > and they have shut down 29S and 66W for a MediVac. No details, hope the > rider is OK. Saw a lot more bikes out today than I have in 2 weeks. Guess > 60F brings 'us out. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 22 22:00:50 2004 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'skip'" Cc: Subject: RE: Biker down in Centreville Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:00:41 -0500 > according to my firend, who is a paramedic, if they call for the > chopper, it's usually too late. Probably true, in general. Let's hope the rider was in a similar condition when I got my helo ride...they called a chopper because I was unconscious for part of the accident. Fortunately, I sustained "minor" damage with a torn ACL even though the docs at the trauma center said I broke a shoulder bone. Wes Hsu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 13:46:37 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Rare opportunities Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:46:12 -0500 Just in time for post-Christmas shopping -- The windup: Want to Buy a Movie Star? http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/travel/24MUSE.html (may require signin). And the punchline: http://www.volocars.com/showroom.html -- click on "Cars for Sale" tab, then "miscellaneous" category for an assortment that includes some bikes. Holiday greetings to everyone. Bill S. / DC (on digest) '99 VN750 > Rather famous than notorious Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 14:29:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GAuQ9t6lnyRJHd8zCN0dE1HnDEkA8NQEI6v8/Vpz0trqqehLZ7ix6NeneefX7A+jEW/px137R/d8buN+wy1Vj5nV6jHtd41zFplabcgqB8PW16NY0Tci8MC3oPmSps1EbYgxUUIl93vYbGpNDMGoKTEwapRafm9TO6s6pTVe65E= Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:29:31 -0500 From: Michael Jordan To: VStrom List , ldrider , DC Cycles Subject: GMail I have 10 invitations available First 10 responses get 'em Merry Christmas and/or the holiday you prefer (why limit yourself to just one?) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 20:57:02 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:56:35 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 00:18:36 -0600, you wrote: >Is this the same guy that was danex250@hotmail, or something to that >effect? He disappeared, and it gladdened my heart. > > >On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:58:52 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >> SJ chastised: >> >> The fact that you wish to portray the riding of motorcycles as a >> non-physical activity is astounding - have you ever ridden a >> motorcycle?! >> >> [Dave] You did see this "daniel.dc@XXXXXX" right? ;-) I guess I won't be getting that Gmail invite from you then LOL. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 21:04:01 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:04:00 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79f86d1cc0ad960f272478da0c40e64092350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c I was just pointing out the irony of situation concerning a discussion of the exertion of sport bike riding coming from a 'gamebox.net' email address ;-) Merry Christmas DY >> [Dave] You did see this "daniel.dc@XXXXXX" right? ;-) I guess I won't be getting that Gmail invite from you then LOL. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 22:30:41 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" Cc: Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:30:22 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Yes, and if you put in hours on the bike, through use, those muscles will strengthen... why work them seperately, more inneffeciently at the gymn, when you could have 10 times more fun, and working all the muscles you need for riding at the same time. Most riders don't hit the gymn any more than an average person. Most exceptional riders meet that same criteria. The gymn will make you a healtheir person.. it won't neccessarily make you a better rider. I think the MSF course would probaby recommend it, if the benefits were relative. Don't get me wrong, while i disagree with the gymn aspect, I have a healthy respect for your position, observing and reflecting and engaging in discourse and debate, in the search for truth and knowlege. - Danny On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:53:09 -0500, you wrote: >Well, the majority of sports have some sort of ideal body type and for >motorcycling..horse jockey comes to mind. From what I was shown this >weekend, riding can be more athletic than I thought. > >- balls of the feet on the pegs....this involves quads, calves >hamstrings. > >- smooth shifts of the body when setting up for a corner...(due to an >old back injury I founds this challenging). The apparent effortless >ease with which my friend shifted position showed a lot of athleticism >more in the balance and coordination of movement. The movement he should >me of moving the head, shoulder, elbow and hip at once smacked of a tai >chi exercise I have seen > >- the less of a death grip you have on the bar, the more leg muscles >will be used to hold you up > >From what I have seen of MOTO GP riders they are all relatively lean and >conditioned. >I am not talking about "buffness" just athleticism > >-----Original Message----- >From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX [mailto:daniel.dc@XXXXXX] >Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:52 PM >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding > >On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:19:10 -0500, you wrote: > >>Agreed, >> >>My point is that I have been training for 18 years seriously and I was >>still sore, hence my questions about more sport specific exercises. I >>don't do that adductor\abductor but am willing to bet those exercises >>will make me a better rider. > >I disagree, off the bike excercise won't neccessarily make you a >better rider. On the bike excersises will. You would probably be as >relatively sore with any new sport. Riding is not neccessarily >physically demanding activity. > > Given the same experience and training, a 90 pound bean pole would ride >as well as a 250 pound brick house of a person. World champion riders >aren't "Buff" and known for "being a better athlete with a better >physique", or winning because they have done more weight training. > >Riding uses different muscles supporting our own body weight and >positioning than our daily custom, but there isn't any controlling of >the bike based on strength. > > >The bike is controlled by manipulating control inputs (throttle, brakes, >steering) more than physical force (any lifting pushing >pulling). Riding is more mental than it is physical. Bigger >stronger individuals aren't going to out perform weaker or heavier >riders given the same experience. (experience will bring the body >conditioning as needed) > >Better riding is based on proper education (this list is excellent), >making the proper mental calculations and decisions, and lots of >practice, practice, practice (which will in turn condition your body for >the applicable riding). > > >There is one aspect of riding that a healther physique is better than a >less healthy physique... CRASHING.. A muscular body is going to protect >bones more than a less muscular phsyique. Of course any crash could be >deadly, so even then, a strong phsyique might be useless. > >But of course it's better to be physically healthy in life, than not, so >this isn't an arguement against healthiness.. but ensure the acurate >portrayal that riding isn't physically dependant. > >Riding definitely is a mental conditioning dependant activity. >Anyone average person in any less than average condition can operate a >motorcycle physically, but without a reasonable education on >controlling it, they'll crash. > > > > >- Danny > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 22:41:11 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Wayne Edelen Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:40:40 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Oh no no no! you are wrong' wrong wrong! After every time that I ride, I get off and do 5 push ups, just so that the next time that I ride, I won't be too weak to push my handlebar that inch or two I need to countersteer when my speed is increased to top speed, because you know, the faster your bike goes, the more effort it takes to turn ( I'm sorry push/pull) those bars! My God it's so friggin scary going top end and being too weak to steer! I shat myself thinking about it! I'm going to the gymn right now.. you know why? cuz real men don't need steering dampers dammit! - Danny >I don't know how small you are, but even at triple digit speeds, it >doesn't take much force to turn my Hayabusa. :-) A smaller supersport >would require much less effort. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 22:42:52 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:42:37 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- To the list I contend: Most of us probably had sore fingers when we learned to type, but now, we type as well as we talk, with speed and no soreness (sans weight training ). Most of us, when newbies, an hour or half, on the bike would make some part(s) of us sore... but now we could do rides 2 or 3 times that with no problem. Sans Gymn activity. Weight training won't do a bit of good, when it comes to those on bike learning experiences.. like going into a curve to hot or over using the back brake or fish tailing.. But saddle time will help. ( The situation may throw us into some other position in which we are familirar with from previous riding experience ) Gymn training may to a lesser degree strengthen your physique, but I contend to the list, that 'RIDING' conditions you for RIDING. 8 hours on the bike is far better bike riding exercise than less hours on the bike + some hours in the gymn. To strengthen your riding muslces, riding itself would be the best exercise. Exercising in the Gymn wouldn't get all the same muscles in all the same ways, not nearly as much as if you were riding. PLUS you would gain mental excercise benifits. You become a better conditioned person hitting the gymn, you become a better rider, and conditioned rider, hitting the streets. Now in direct reply, I thank you for your pleasant and enjoyable reply... I would agree that a healthy physique does help keep a healthy mind. - Daniel On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 23:15:55 -0500, you wrote: >> From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX [mailto:daniel.dc@XXXXXX] > >> off the bike excercise won't neccessarily make you a >> better rider. On the bike excersises will. You would probably be as >> relatively sore with any new sport. Riding is not >> neccessarily physically demanding activity. > > >I agree whole-heartedly with one minor exception... Lower torso >condition (back, abs, etc). Even if you ride a rolling couch, any >decent amount of time in the saddle will be much more comfortable if >you're not carrying a few cases of beer around your gut. Don't get me >wrong, I'm no athlete by any means (Julian could probably bench-press >me) and I *HATE* exercising, but it DOES make a difference. > >There is no bike that I'm aware of that lets your back and arms rest in >a truly neutral position. Either you are supporting them or you're >"hanging" from the grips, both of which take a certain amount of >strength and control. > >Even just doing a decent set of crunches every day can make the >difference between rides getting uncomfortable in an hour or in six >hours. I can speak from experience when I say that no amount of regular >street riding will do as much good to your physical comfort... In turn, >that will roll right over into your mental state. An exhausted rider is >a bad rider and isn't putting in as much attention to his/her >surroundings as a relaxed and alert one. It used to be a physical >effort for me to put in three hours of riding. Now, it's a mental >effort for me to come home within 12 hours. :) > >Just my two cents. > >--smthng >http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 22:42:57 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:42:41 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:16:49 -0600, you wrote: >On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:51:43 -0500, daniel.dc@XXXXXX > wrote: >> World champion riders aren't "Buff" >> and known for "being a better athlete with a >> better physique", or winning because they have done more weight >> training. > >And yet, if you look at every rider that is running up front in >national/world class roadracing events, they are in excellent physical >condition - maybe not muscular hulks, but they are generally fairly >strong for their individual body types. I challenge you to point out >one professional, class leading (not even winning!) roadracer that is >of average (or less) physical condition. Nikki haden was a 16 year old kid beating out literally stronger openents. I have the utmost respect for road racers, but they are generally thin... and not from hititng the gymn. We all know they would ride the hell out of a motorcycle.. but even "excellent physical condition".. for riding, yes, for anything else, I disagree. Put them in some kind of walk a thon or marathon, and i'm sure they'd tire out just as the average person would, because they're not condition for that. They are conditioned for riding, because they've got a lot of riding practice. Which I recommend, if tha's what you want to do. >> Riding uses different muscles supporting our own body weight and >> positioning than our daily custom, but there isn't any controlling >> of the bike based on strength. > >This is patently absurd. Wheels are gyroscopes, and the faster they >spin, the more force is required to move them from their "preferred" >state. Ergo, the faster your bike is moving, the more force is >required to turn it. Having increased strength (upper-body especially) >makes it much easier to control a motorcycle. That is ludacris. How much weight does it take to countersteer your bike? Is your steering dampner broken? Anyone who can ride any bike, can countersteer your bike, sans even a minute at the gymn. We have pistons in our brake lines so we don't need to use strength.. if turning a bike were so hard, we'd have some kind of assistance built in for that too.. but we don't. it's not that hard. Give it up. >> The bike is controlled by manipulating control inputs (throttle, >> brakes, steering) more than physical force (any lifting pushing >> pulling). > >Counter-steering is accomplished by: > >A. Throttle Inputs > >B. Pushing/Pulling > >Answer: B Gee Golly Wilakers.. we had all better hit the gymn right away! God forbid we shouldn't have the physical force we need to steer the bike as Sean contends! > >Draw your own conclusions . . . Finally something to agree upon! >> Riding is more mental than it is physical. Bigger >> stronger individuals aren't going to out perform weaker or heavier >> riders given the same experience. (experience will bring the body >> conditioning as needed) > >Are you making this up as you go along? Given the same levels of >experience, a stronger rider will have a greater potential for better >riding as speed increases. If you took Valentino Rossi, cloned him, >and made the clone quit his regimen of physical conditioning, there is >no way he could beat his "normal" self! LOL you're talking about cloning racers and asking if I'm making things up? Are you saying that Rossi can only control his bike because he hits the gymn? Or that he can control his bike quicker because he hits the gymn? That is ludacris. If the man never seen a gymn in his life, The bike, at it's top speed, would still control with input pressures far within his range. Any sap without weight training can go out to the track and ride as fast as bike will go, as far as 'physical strength' is concerned. Look, you're sitting on a bike, you're leaning on it, you're moving parts on bearings. You're not exerting but so much physical strength. Go as fast as you want, but you'll not say "OH MY GOD, I'm GOING TOO FAST TO TURN THE BARS" or " OH MY GOD, I can't stop, the brake has become too heavy". Get real. Motorcycles are excellent peices of machinery. They are designed to be controlled easily. If strong work were needed, they'd build on another part to make it easy. That's why we have pistons in brake calipers, steering dampners.. power steering and brakes in cars.. because we are smart enough to replace the need for strength.. I repeat, Riding is a far more mental thing than it is physical. Anyone would be better served spending time talking to good riders about riding, than they would in the gymn. ( to become a better rider) >> Better riding is based on proper education (this list is excellent), > >It scares me that anyone would find your second assertion to be true. Well now that I know what scares you, you better leave me alone or I'll scare you a lot more! BOO! >> making the proper mental calculations and decisions, >> and lots of practice, practice, practice (which will in turn condition >> your body for the applicable riding). > >As a waiter, I walk A LOT. However, it does not "condition" my body to >make me a good walker - there are more and better avenues of training >available to increase my body's ability to walk, aside from just >walking a great deal. No, as a waiter, waiting, makes you a better waiter! that's exactly my point. Congratulations genius, you make my point for me. If you want to be a good walker, you know what the walkers do? They walk! >> There is one aspect of riding that a healther physique is better than >> a less healthy physique... CRASHING.. A muscular body is going to >> protect bones more than a less muscular phsyique. Of course any crash >> could be deadly, so even then, a strong phsyique might be useless. > >Crashing is not an aspect of riding; crashing is an aspect of >crashing. I would be loathe to take any advice from someone that >considers crashing to be an aspect of riding. We can agree to disagree, but I contend crashing is an aspect of riding. THere are two types of riders, those who have crashed, and those that will crash. Therefor, crashing is a part of riding. If you think crashing is not a part of riding, I invite you to re-evaluate your riding philosophy. Riding is not perfect nor safe. I suspect youv'e already had at least 1 or 2 times when you have parted your motorcycle and hit something be it the ground or other object. Next time don't crash, since crashing isn't a part of riding. Show us, how we too, can remove the crashing aspect of riding. You will be rich and I will be your biggest fan. LOOK! It is sean jordan! The man who proved murphy's law was a big con! >Flexibility is a better attribute for crashing than increased muscle mass. Oh yea i'm sure... what better way for a bone or joint to fully extend and break than without any muscle to fight to the force. You're right it's much better for a bone to slam into an object with a flexible muscle, than a bulky muscle to soften the impact. Sean I think you've been bending over too much. >> But of course it's better to be physically healthy in life, than not, >> so this isn't an arguement against healthiness.. but ensure >> the acurate portrayal that riding isn't physically dependant. > >The fact that you wish to portray the riding of motorcycles as a >non-physical activity is astounding - have you ever ridden a >motorcycle?! No I've never ridden a motorcycle. I've never started on small motorcycles and worked my way up to bigger faster ones. I've never logged 20 to 30k miles per year riding every year since i've started riding. I don't own several motorcycles. I don't buy/sell/fix motorcycles. Motorcycles are not a part of my life. I don't love motorcycles. I don't love riding. I don't love learning and teaching the aspects of riding. I don't love healthy debate in the quest of truth and proper education in motorcycle riding. I don't belong to the dc-cycles email list. I'm not replying to you right now. I don't exist. I have never ridden a motorcycle, and i've never rehashed good riding information to the new riders to the list , good info that i've learned from the list. I've never ridden a motorcycle, and I am a figment of your imagination. >While there is a definite need to develop and enhance the skills used >in riding a motorcycle, it is ridiculous to suggest that there is no >benefit to be had from physical conditioning, and ludicrous to state >that riding isn't dependant on factors of physical condition. WAIT a minute.. what i said was, physical conditioning is good for life overall (which includes motorcycling) but to become a better rider, the time would be better spent on the bike not the gymn. I stand by that physical conditioning is not a big factor in riding. I've seen bean poles, and severly obese people riding. I re-iterate, if they want to become healtheir, they should hit the gymn, but if they want to become better riders, they should RIDE. Hitting the gymn is no substitute for riding. Hitting the gymn won't neccesarily amake you a better rider, it would make you a healthier crasher. RIDING practice, will, as i've stated, make you a better rider. thank you for your time, I do find this amusing :) - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 24 22:46:57 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "Dave Yates" Cc: Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 22:46:31 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Further Irony is that I looked into the whole Gmail thing a few months back and wanted one, to find out that it's invite only. Gamebox.net was chosen, because "hotpop.com" was too confusing for me to tell people.. "what? motorcycle@ hot pot? hot pocket .com?" gamebox enunciates so much easier. Merry Xmas :) - Danny On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 21:04:00 -0500, you wrote: > >I was just pointing out the irony of situation concerning a discussion of >the exertion of sport bike riding coming from a 'gamebox.net' email address >;-) > >Merry Christmas >DY > >>> [Dave] You did see this "daniel.dc@XXXXXX" right? ;-) > > >I guess I won't be getting that Gmail invite from you then LOL. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 25 15:36:34 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=3hHJMUrKaQUb6mjKPkUVGYd16vV7Y6gLpIRlXYCfFrxHVropiO2KQOa0wrrRjcdP9De0N2c2v4thYwm2M9LBl3JWsfWTGTvRX7yVgme6DgLaH+xy2VRqEjxOJ9qLcSRS+THVJn+4W+ZIWO30nYtm+L5flic102W5iFdyfEtmX50= ; Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 12:35:55 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Subject: Happy Holidays To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Merry Christmas everyone. Here is to a great holiday, spending time with those that matter most and an exciting new year. I am off this week, so if anyone is up for a ride.... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 25 23:17:10 2004 From: "Aaron Ward" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:16:32 -0500 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX >How much weight does it take to countersteer your >bike? Is your steering dampner broken? Anyone who can ride any bike, >can countersteer your bike, sans even a minute at the gymn. While your statement is technically true, I think you are missing the huge point behind having strength. You see, it takes strength to countersteer *QUICKLY*, as in like, when you are *sport bike* riding. Sure, you can limp wrist any size bike and get it to eventually countersteer and ease it slowly over to initiate a turn, but you will get smoked by someone who can *FLICK* the bike back and forth from one turn to the next. Did you know back in the day, guys were twisting the bars so hard to flick the bikes, that they bent their handlebars? That takes some f'ing strength, although todays clip-ons are sturdy enough to hold up to rider abuse. When you countersteer, you are fighting the inertia of the rider/bike mass, and that takes strength if you are trying to do it in a sport bike environment. Two riders of equal *riding education/skill*, the winner in a race would come down to the one with greater body strength. _________________________________________________________________ Don)B’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 02:24:07 2004 From: Daniel To: "Aaron Ward" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:23:46 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- No friggin way dude. Name one person who crashed because countersteering was too heavy? On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 23:16:32 -0500, "Aaron Ward" wrote: >From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX >>How much weight does it take to countersteer your >>bike? Is your steering dampner broken? Anyone who can ride any bike, >>can countersteer your bike, sans even a minute at the gymn. > >While your statement is technically true, I think you are missing the huge >point behind having strength. You see, it takes strength to countersteer >*QUICKLY*, as in like, when you are *sport bike* riding. It does not take strength to countersteer quickly. Sportbikes today are made with the steering stem on bearings. Bearings with the sizes based on calculations of making the bike easy to control. I don't care how fast you go, the weight is trivial. I've gone pretty friggin fast, and i've never said "oh my god, it's heavy as hell to turn my bars". I think it's ludacris if anyone were to hypothesize that racers go to the gymn and work on their forarms or other muscles so they're strong enough to countersteer.. if anything, as i've stated over and over, they ride, practice practice practice, to be in condition to ride... and it works. olympic bodybuilders dont' win sports.. athletes who train by doing, win. >Sure, you can limp wrist any size bike and get it to eventually countersteer >and ease it slowly over to initiate a turn, but you will get smoked by >someone who can *FLICK* the bike back and forth from one turn to the next. first, the arguement was "as you go faster the weight increases" well I got news, the faster you go, you're not going to be making any hair pin turns and flick overs. I don't care how fast you go, bar weight won't be your concern. >Did you know back in the day, guys were twisting the bars so hard to flick >the bikes, that they bent their handlebars? That takes some f'ing strength, >although todays clip-ons are sturdy enough to hold up to rider abuse. How do you guage how much strength it took? You just admited the bars were weaker then. You can't gauge strength using today's bars with how much it took to bend bars back then. I can hypothesize that maybe the turning ratio wasn't as much, they come full swing, and trying to get the bike to turn more, then bent the bars, with pressure against the frame.. not "countersteering" >When you countersteer, you are fighting the inertia of the rider/bike mass, >and that takes strength if you are trying to do it in a sport bike >environment. How does this apply to sportbike riding but not other riding? > Two riders of equal *riding education/skill*, the winner in a >race would come down to the one with greater body strength. That's not true.. the winner would come down to at least one of the following: 1> the guy with the more aggression 2> the guy with the better (running) bike 3> the guy with the better weight/power ratio 4> the guy with the better luck The bulkier guy might actually lose because muscle weighs more than fat, and a heavier "strongly built" rider would actually be slower than even himself if he were thinner. If you added 20 pounds of muscle on your frame you'd probably lose about 3 miles per hour at top end speeds. You'd probably lose a few HP over all. So in all fairness becoming more muscular may in fact slow you down. I would imagine that the world champion racers are more concerned with keeping their weight down than they are "being strong enough to ride". 1. they know they are strong enough to ride because they practice and have hte experience. 2. they know more weight = more work for the bike = less effeciency = less power/speed = less maximum speed The hypothesis that you need strength to ride is hooey. Going to the gymn isn't neccessary to develop "riding muscles", riding will develop "riding muscles". As with any deed, doing it, will condition you for doing it. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 05:14:02 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=DShrJcNC0nKvare9bu9BJ6vvNGVYEZHFMXYKQ9EgKOFrOppu6CE/F+Kpgx3Oc7l83gGyzr0GbNDu/CoJ5EAvHmPuCS5KB7TOcV2+VwHnCxAkRxVIxjMQzOCnPE0D6Y/6+QFaiFn5FVAuGruiAm5lFA1lyOX33notOiQu8KVWCbk= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 05:13:55 -0500 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:23:46 -0500, Daniel wrote: > No friggin way dude. Name one person who crashed because > countersteering was too heavy? Go to Summit Point on any club racing weekend - watch someone get into a corner too hot, or need to make a sudden line correction, and watch them crash because they could not change direction quickly enough. Happens at least once every race weekend, and quite often could be fixed by having sufficient upper-body strength. > >From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX > >>How much weight does it take to countersteer your > >>bike? Is your steering dampner broken? A dampner is something used to make things damp; take for instance, a washcloth soaked in water. The device you're referring to is a damper - there is a difference. > It does not take strength to countersteer quickly. Do you think it's accomplished by sheer force of will? "I want, therefore I turn?" >Sportbikes today are made with the steering stem on bearings. Bearings with the >sizes based on calculations of making the bike easy to control. After calling a damper a "dampner", you expect us to believe that you possess the necessary engineering acumen to explain how bearing sizes are determined? Where do you come up with this crap?! " . . . based on calculations of making the bike easy to control" WTF?! > I think it's ludacris if anyone were to hypothesize that racers go to > the gymn and work on their forarms or other muscles so they're strong > enough to countersteer.. I think it's ludicrous that someone would mistakenly use the name of an American Hip-Hop artist instead of the adjective "ludicrous." You're piling layers of ignorance and false assumptions on this thread like Dagwood Bumstead piles cold-cuts on a sandwhich. Have you ever even been to a racetrack?! Racers DO go to the gym and work on their forearms and "other" muscles. I had the opportunity to interview Eric Bostrom at Barber Motorsports Park in 2003 and we talked for a while about his exercise regimen - suffice it to say, he does quite a bit of work on his upper body. >if anything, I take this to mean "I have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll make something up . . ." > as i've stated over and over, > they ride, practice practice practice, to be in condition to ride... > and it works. The people in this world that can ride a motorcycle well and truly fast, almost to the man, do significant amounts of training OFF of a motorcycle. This is a well-documented and established fact. Do I need to start providing referrences so you'll cease and desist with the desultory hogwash you insist on spewing throughout this thread? > I can hypothesize that > maybe the turning ratio wasn't as much, they come full swing, and > trying to get the bike to turn more, then bent the bars, with pressure > against the frame.. not "countersteering" I have no response to this . . . however, I think it frightens me a little to consider that there might be a defenseless, frightened kernel of a rational thought trapped inside that convoluted abortion of a sentence. > > Two riders of equal *riding education/skill*, the winner in a > >race would come down to the one with greater body strength. > > That's not true.. the winner would come down to at least one of the > following: > > 1> the guy with the more aggression > 2> the guy with the better (running) bike > 3> the guy with the better weight/power ratio > 4> the guy with the better luck Are you deliberately missing the point, or did you fail to understand it entirely? If you take two riders, (with equal equipment) equal in *all* respects save strength, the rider with the greater strength will have a definite advantage in a race! > The bulkier guy might actually lose because muscle weighs more than > fat, and a heavier "strongly built" rider would actually be slower > than even himself if he were thinner. If you added 20 pounds of > muscle on your frame you'd probably lose about 3 miles per hour at top > end speeds. Weight is not really a factor in top speed. Top speed is primarily governed by your drag coefficient, your gearing, and the output of the motor. Weight savings only really affect acceleration. The more muscular person could very well be a bit more slim, allowing them to reduce the amount of body sticking out of the fairing, and conceivably gaining 3 mph at top end speeds. >You'd probably lose a few HP over all. The output of an engine is the same, whatever the weight of the rider. An episode of Star Trek has a more realistic physics model than the world you live in. >So in all > fairness becoming more muscular may in fact slow you down. Logical Fallacies by Daniel X - reserve your copy today! > I would > imagine that the world champion racers are more concerned with keeping > their weight down than they are "being strong enough to ride". You have an imagination that would make Walter Mitty proud. > 1. they know they are strong enough to ride because they practice and > have hte experience. > 2. they know more weight = more work for the bike = less effeciency = > less power/speed = less maximum speed Professional racers work to achieve a balance of weight consciousness and strength. They DO NOT > The hypothesis that you need strength to ride is hooey. I enjoy the fact that you fail to construct a single logical or reasonable argument, and still make the declaration that needing strength to ride is "hooey", especially when one considers that reality directly contradicts your assertions. > Going to the > gymn isn't neccessary to develop "riding muscles", riding will develop > "riding muscles". As with any deed, doing it, will condition you for > doing it. Yes, going to the gymn is absolutely unnecessary - it will not help you in the slightest to become a better rider. However, I do advocate going to the gym, as it is entirely different from a gymn, the letters "g", "y" and "m" notwithstanding. Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 05:30:00 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 05:29:48 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On 24 Dec 2004 16:51:16 -0800, in alt.motorcycle.sportbike "Tim Kreitz" wrote: >WFT? > >"A 20-year-old Stillwater motorcyclist charged with going 205 miles per >hour down Hwy. 61 in September pleaded guilty on Wednesday in Wabasha >County District Court to speeding and was sentenced to 200 hours of >community service. Judge Terrence Walters placed Samuel Tilley on >probation for a year and ordered him to pay $125 in court and probation >fees, said the Wabasha County attorney's office. He will not serve any >jail time. He also admitted not having a proper motorcycle license. >Under a plea agreement, a reckless-driving charge was dropped. The >agreement states that Tilley was going 205 mph in a 65 mph zone 12 >miles south of Wabasha. He was clocked by a State Patrol pilot on Sept. >18 during the Flood Run, a motorcycle charity event." > >In case you don't remember this case, here's a refresher: > > >I don't get it. In Texas, a speeding ticket can easily be thrown out of >court if it can be shown that the officer made a mistake or otherwise >performed his duties in an incompetant manner. Since exact speed >calculation serves as the prima facie evidence that potentially proves >the charge, showing the court that the speed overage was arrived at by >either negligent or -- more likely -- dishonest law enforcement >practices, will usually result in dismissal of the case (in Texas, >anyway). > >That aside, the saddest aspect of this situation is not that Tilley >pled guilty to a crime he did not commit, but that he fell victim to a >bloated, overly-powerful law enforcement entity that was attempting to >do little more than generate revenue for itself. It is unsettling to >know that we, as a citizenry, allow cops to sqaunder our tax dollars by >using multi-million dollar helicopters (that cost $500 to $1500 per >hour to operate, on average) to chase down pimply-faced kids on >sportbikes. Meanwhile, murders, robbers, vandals, and thieves run >rampant as the police have a grand time playing with their >taxpayer-purchased toys. > >If Tilley had done what he did in Italy, Germany, Spain, or even >pre-1999 Montana, he would've gotten little more than a smile and a >wave from the cops. Instead, he got screwed because the citizenry, >police, and justice system of his community are comprized largely of a >bunch of boobs. >-- >Tim Kreitz >2003 ZX7R >2000 ZX6R >http://www.timkreitz.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 06:46:36 2004 From: Daniel To: Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:46:19 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 05:13:55 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:23:46 -0500, Daniel wrote: >> No friggin way dude. Name one person who crashed because >> countersteering was too heavy? > >Go to Summit Point on any club racing weekend - watch someone get into >a corner too hot, or need to make a sudden line correction, and watch >them crash because they could not change direction quickly enough. >Happens at least once every race weekend, and quite often could be >fixed by having sufficient upper-body strength. That would be centrifugal force outweighting the tires capacity to hold (and or the bikes turning radius capabilities) , NOT someone being too weak to turn the bars. >> >From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX >> >>How much weight does it take to countersteer your >> >>bike? Is your steering dampner broken? > >A dampner is something used to make things damp; take for instance, a >washcloth soaked in water. > >The device you're referring to is a damper - there is a difference. it's called both a dampener and a damper. What you declare as its' sole english value is irrelevent to the rest of the world in which they both are used. > >> It does not take strength to countersteer quickly. > >Do you think it's accomplished by sheer force of will? "I want, >therefore I turn?" oh i'm sorry "virtually no strength". A bike can be countersteered to some degree with no hands. How much strength does that take? >>Sportbikes today are made with the steering stem on bearings. >Bearings with the >sizes based on calculations of making the bike easy >to control. > >After calling a damper a "dampner", you expect us to believe that you >possess the necessary engineering acumen to explain how bearing sizes >are determined? Don't worry about what I expect. I expect reasonable people to recognize early morning and apathetic spelling errors. I guess shakespear didn't know what he was talking about since he often spelled the same word in different ways. I'm sure everyone here except me doesn't make spelling errors and have super spelling skills in the middle of the night for their very important online banter. oh my I am so ashamed! >Where do you come up with this crap?! " . . . based on calculations of >making the bike easy to control" > >WTF?! You're right, these bikes are very poorly designed! THey just happend to throw darts to make the designs of these bikes. >> I think it's ludacris if anyone were to hypothesize that racers go to >> the gymn and work on their forarms or other muscles so they're strong >> enough to countersteer.. > >I think it's ludicrous that someone would mistakenly use the name of >an American Hip-Hop artist instead of the adjective "ludicrous." Well i'm no fan of the guy you are so familiar with.. I just don't care to run spell check. Now beat it you spelling nazi LOL >You're piling layers of ignorance and false assumptions on this thread >like Dagwood Bumstead piles cold-cuts on a sandwhich. Have you ever There's a real world (cartoon) analogy. very eloquent. >even been to a racetrack?! Racers DO go to the gym and work on their I have in fact been to a race track on many occations. Affirmative. >forearms and "other" muscles. I had the opportunity to interview Eric >Bostrom at Barber Motorsports Park in 2003 and we talked for a while >about his exercise regimen - suffice it to say, he does quite a bit of >work on his upper body. How much tyme <-- does he spend in the gymn? How much time does he spend on the bike? Did you ever ask him if he would have less skill on the bike if he never went to the gymn? No? I didn't think so. The defense rest. Now go interview the rest of the world class racers, and this time ask the right questions! You can't claim science as your champion and tought single ancedotes as evidence. beat it! >>if anything, > >I take this to mean "I have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll >make something up . . ." I guess so! If you say so! >> as i've stated over and over, >> they ride, practice practice practice, to be in condition to ride... >> and it works. > >The people in this world that can ride a motorcycle well and truly >fast, almost to the man, do significant amounts of training OFF of a Tha'ts right, TO THE MAN! Stick it to the man! OH MY You're so correct you never make typos and mispellings.. continue to stick it to the man! Who is the man.. ? >motorcycle. This is a well-documented and established fact. Do I need >to start providing referrences so you'll cease and desist with the >desultory hogwash you insist on spewing throughout this thread? Why yes.. yes you do.. by all means... I would LOVE to be disproved by references instead of inferred ancedotes. >> I can hypothesize that >> maybe the turning ratio wasn't as much, they come full swing, and >> trying to get the bike to turn more, then bent the bars, with pressure >> against the frame.. not "countersteering" > >I have no response to this . . . however, I think it frightens me a >little to consider that there might be a defenseless, frightened >kernel of a rational thought trapped inside that convoluted abortion >of a sentence. Ah I have you frightened! I must be on the right track. And touche you fight fire with fire with that convoluted retaliatory sentence! At six a.m. I almost have to read it three times to understand. I'm almost frightened! >> > Two riders of equal *riding education/skill*, the winner in a >> >race would come down to the one with greater body strength. >> >> That's not true.. the winner would come down to at least one of the >> following: >> >> 1> the guy with the more aggression >> 2> the guy with the better (running) bike >> 3> the guy with the better weight/power ratio >> 4> the guy with the better luck > > > >Are you deliberately missing the point, or did you fail to understand >it entirely? Both! Never underestimate the power of human stupidty! >If you take two riders, (with equal equipment) equal in *all* respects >save strength, the rider with the greater strength will have a >definite advantage in a race! Oh come on, dont' try to change the facts now. And how do you change all the facts save strength.. Clone A and clone B are supposed to be exactly the same shape and weight but clone b is stronger? NEGATIVE. I state that racers are generally thin individuals. Or at least closer to thin than fat. Now if you add "strength" and thus "muscle" to their frame, they are goign to be heavier and less aerodynamic, and this slower. >> The bulkier guy might actually lose because muscle weighs more than >> fat, and a heavier "strongly built" rider would actually be slower >> than even himself if he were thinner. If you added 20 pounds of >> muscle on your frame you'd probably lose about 3 miles per hour at top >> end speeds. > >Weight is not really a factor in top speed. Top speed is primarily In the real world, Yes it is. Go to any track you want, and radar your top speed. Now add 20 pounds to your top speed. Radar it again. What do you think will happen? You will in fact be going slower. >governed by your drag coefficient, your gearing, and the output of the >motor. Weight savings only really affect acceleration. The more >muscular person could very well be a bit more slim, allowing them to >reduce the amount of body sticking out of the fairing, and conceivably >gaining 3 mph at top end speeds. and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. Most racers aren't fat and overweight so you can take this "could be" arguement and throw it in the trash where it belongs. >>You'd probably lose a few HP over all. > >The output of an engine is the same, whatever the weight of the rider. >An episode of Star Trek has a more realistic physics model than the >world you live in. You're right, so adding more weight isn't adding more work, tying up, using HP, and not losing HP, and top end in the real world would be the same? You're right... go to infinite road drive and conduct your real world test and post the results please. also thank you for realizing that I live in a world of different physics.. I shall float off now! >>So in all >> fairness becoming more muscular may in fact slow you down. > >Logical Fallacies by Daniel X - reserve your copy today! You know that my statement is true.. " in all fairness becoming more muscular *MAY* in fact slow you down. That is in fact Logical! Are you saying becoming more muscular has no chance to slow you down? becoming muscular has no chance in making you heavier and less aerodynamic? You dare not say such a lie!! >> I would >> imagine that the world champion racers are more concerned with keeping >> their weight down than they are "being strong enough to ride". > >You have an imagination that would make Walter Mitty proud. Thank you. it's six a.m. I know that I know that name walter mitty but my resources fail me at this juncture... still all the same, imagination is key factor to problem solving.. so that's fine. It is a poor mind in deed that takes being imaginative as being an insult. >> 1. they know they are strong enough to ride because they practice and >> have hte experience. >> 2. they know more weight = more work for the bike = less effeciency = >> less power/speed = less maximum speed > >Professional racers work to achieve a balance of weight consciousness >and strength. They DO NOT weight a minute. First you say they do something, then you say they do not. Don't contradict yourself! save some of the fun for me. P.S. mr perfect spelling and grammer... your sentence is abortive or something as you say.. you either left out punctuation or several words... How dare you try to steal my technique! I must be right if you're copying me! >> The hypothesis that you need strength to ride is hooey. > >I enjoy the fact that you fail to construct a single logical or >reasonable argument, and still make the declaration that needing wait a minute, didn't you say that I did make a single logical conclusion above and that it scared you? Come on Sean, i'm going to need a lot more consistency from you. All this back and forth with yourself leaves me no room to fit in my counter arguments. >strength to ride is "hooey", especially when one considers that >reality directly contradicts your assertions. Reality contradicts my assertions.. really? I thought it was Sean Jordan! Oh well I guess i'm beat.. we can all be bulkier heavier bigger riders and be less aerodynamic and heavier, and still through non magic reality governed by the laws of physics actually be faster.. wow! Where do you teach at professor? And to think all this time i've been fooled by these pre-existing to my little mind, weight/HP calculations. >> Going to the >> gymn isn't neccessary to develop "riding muscles", riding will develop >> "riding muscles". As with any deed, doing it, will condition you for >> doing it. > >Yes, going to the gymn is absolutely unnecessary - it will not help >you in the slightest to become a better rider. True. It might make you become a healthier rider, but not a better rider. You won't learn aspects of riding.. you won't gain the feel of riding and become acustomed to it.. but you'll magicly become a better faster rider through the new sean jordon school of phsyics. When are they going to award you the nobel prize? >However, I do advocate going to the gym, as it is entirely different >from a gymn, the letters "g", "y" and "m" notwithstanding. uh yea what he said.. mr perfect mid morning spellers night dream. Ben Franklin said, wash your fingers before you point at my spots. >Sean Jordan My hero! - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 06:46:41 2004 From: Daniel To: Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:46:29 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- another travesty of justice Where the police waste resources on lesser crimes, with apathy to priority police work and the greed of revenue seeking under the vail of justice, and intimidate innocent until proven guilty defendants to take a palitable punishment vs the fear of taking an unpalitable punishment, with unreliable worthless evidence. Tilley did a dis-service to himself and his fellow citizens. He traded freedom for security yet deserves neither, and further patronized and bolstered the on going detriment of the system. Congratulations, you're a loser. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 10:31:11 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=dF4NuCaHHxdx4/NEb72mKojC1OCff0i5KKnQngHoGHb7T9SD/eMIg1mp5VQy8hz7VwJFFgQAPzpjaRCNZA9CWAQNddj6MckyAyTZgMm+BNk6Dzcnu9qYweFvvRXjMmd8QSM8zMJUeZsnauuAtY6BkiJxFe7j1rnut7ONoOsnpDY= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:31:03 -0500 From: Eric Geary To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge how can you guys say that it was a waste of resources? would you feel differently if this kid was going say 180 Mph and slammed into the back of a minivan and wiped out an entire family?(maybe yours) I personally dont think it is ever ok to go 180 Mph heck 150 Mph or more and just get a "a smile and a wave from the cops". last time i checked it is a police officers sworn duty to serve and protect. i dont think they are just sitting there looking for speeders all day. That is what a higway patrols duty is and that is what this man was doing. Other people are assigned to murders and robbery and other such crimes. There is no travesty here except that you do not see anything wrong with some "pimpley face kid" doing an ungoddly speed on a public road rather then on the track where it belongs. just my .02 Eric Geary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 11:35:16 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:35:16 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a1d1038acd81f8bd6cbc0a5b6d770fbe350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c SJ: "...there might be a defenseless, frightened kernel of a rational thought trapped inside that convoluted abortion of a sentence." [Dave] That's pretty good. I'm going to use that at work ;-) Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 11:45:04 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:45:04 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c9386a04ea8080237df059053698d643350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c EG: how can you guys say that it was a waste of resources? [Dave] That is actually an official Montana traffic code citation in response to the nationally mandated 55 mph speed limit. would you feel differently if this kid was going say 180 Mph and slammed into the back of a minivan and wiped out an entire family?(maybe yours) I personally dont think it is ever ok to go 180 Mph heck 150 Mph or more and just get a "a smile and a wave from the cops". [Dave] Silver State Classic ? last time I checked it is a police officers sworn duty to serve and protect. I dont think they are just sitting there looking for speeders all day. [Dave] Serve and protect is a motto, not an oath. Officers only owe protection to the collective people. Don't believe me? Just call them one day and ask for a protective detail. And if you don't think that some cops don't sit and look for speeders all day, perhaps we could introduce you to the MD and VA state police for starters. Falls Church too. In fact, Falls Church is up front and public about mandating their officers to write so many tickets / month. Tom Jackman of the Wash. Post has written 2 or 3 articles on it. At least F.C. is honest about it. That is what a higway patrols duty is and that is what this man was doing. Other people are assigned to murders and robbery and other such crimes. There is no travesty here except that you do not see anything wrong with some "pimpley face kid" doing an ungoddly speed on a public road rather then on the track where it belongs. [Dave] He was going fast, that's not in dispute. He was also more than likely going way too fast for the conditions. He wasn't going 205mph, but, he got a decent plea deal. One thing for sure, he'll hold the 'fastest traffic ticket' moniker for some time... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 12:43:27 2004 From: Daniel To: Eric Geary Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:43:02 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- First, let me say that I respect your position.. however I respond as follow: 1. The kid did not slam into any cars nor hurt any persons - we don't know if there was even a car around for him to risk anyone's safety. so it may be premature to judge that right now. 2. The highway patrol ARE looking for SPEEDERS to gain revenue vs just scouting around for agressive drivers. 3. I'm sure the homocide and robbery units somewhere in the state could use more officers/detectives. The crime rate could be better served with officers more strategicly placed. A cop on every corner would prevent a lot of crime.. a cop would better be placed on the corner than in the air and highway bushes hunting revenue. 4. We have a standards in this country where bad evidence is not allowed and grounds for aquittal. 5. "what if" some crook were murdering your family the same time the cops were writing that kid a ticket not harming anyone.. you would be wishing the police were patrolling the vicinity. So yes, as long as said bike isn't harming anyone, and real hardened criminals are harming people, it is a waste of resources to be gathering inacurate evidence against speeders. Once the cops drop the violent crime rate to zero, then it would be acceptable for them to gaurd against candy bar theives and other non violent lesser crimes. As a matter of fact, they'd do much better to hunt drunk drivers than speedng sport bike riders. 45% of the accidents this weekend will be due to alcohol and probably less than 1 percent due to pimply faced sport bike riders. Society would be better served by the cop letting the sport bike rider keep on going and wait for that drunk driver to come along. - Danny On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:31:03 -0500, Eric Geary wrote: >how can you guys say that it was a waste of resources? would you feel >differently if this kid was going say 180 Mph and slammed into the >back of a minivan and wiped out an entire family?(maybe yours) I >personally dont think it is ever ok to go 180 Mph heck 150 Mph or >more and just get a "a smile and a wave from the cops". last time i >checked it is a police officers sworn duty to serve and protect. i >dont think they are just sitting there looking for speeders all day. >That is what a higway patrols duty is and that is what this man was >doing. Other people are assigned to murders and robbery and other such >crimes. There is no travesty here except that you do not see anything >wrong with some "pimpley face kid" doing an ungoddly speed on a public >road rather then on the track where it belongs. > >just my .02 > >Eric Geary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 12:55:12 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:54:33 -0500 I got Lee Parks "Total Control" for Christmas, flipping through it, there is a small chapter on this subject. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 12:59:47 2004 From: Daniel To: "Dave Yates" Cc: Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:59:34 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Is this a logical idea: instead of targeting speeders who may be operating fine for road conditions.. (empty yet coming into view of a speed trap) we place priority on aggressive swerving and drunk drivers... we take the finances out of ticket writing.. and use a punishment only system. (points, probation, imprisonment if someone was harmed or potentially harmed). (takes the quota incentive out of pulling over and ticketing non dangerously driving individuals) we make criminals work in jail, we profit off of the goods we have them make, and we fine their earnings,, and htey can get out of jail after they've served their given time + pay with the money they've earned inside. Hell it may habitually condition them to working and maybe getting a job when they get out, and giving them some start off money to start their life over, instead of mugging that little old lady and going right back. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 13:30:09 2004 From: "Aaron Ward" To: daniel.dc@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:29:27 -0500 Look, from reading your posts, it sounds like you don't have a fundamental grasp on sportbike riding. Your arguments sound like they are just based on hypothesized gut feelings, instead of any authority, like the laws of physics or an experienced, knowledgeable sportbike rider/racer (e.g., have you even read a book on sportbike racing, like Keith Code's Twist of the wrist?). Why are you focusing on speed? Flipping the bike back and forth quickly takes strength at any speed... the gyroscopic precession aids countersteering in handlebar input, but there's still the issue of rotating the bike+rider mass along the roll axis. That takes strength if you want to do it quickly. How do you think you can get a bike (and your body) from pointing vertical to quickly pointing at 45 degrees leaned over? Do you think it's just gravity? No, you have to pull and push the bars/countersteer to initiate that leaned-over state prior to entering the turn. I'm not going to dispute all the other mistakes in your argument, because that would be a waste of my time. Instead, I'd like see you try to prove one of your incorrect statments: >It does not take strength to countersteer quickly. That's just plain wrong. It illustrates how your arguments begin with a flawed premise, and why it's probably a waste of time to try to argue with you. I can't argue with you if your arguments aren't even based on a fundamental understanding. Are you just arguing for fun, to hear your own mind try to grasp this concept out loud? I still think it's great you are willing to engage in intelligent discussion to discover the truth, but to enter an argument without any understanding it just wasting time. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 14:02:59 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=qXyRG0lJvVBEto1gFT3rAzAzLnvsJLezJ9AIZsJHTsTudzZtXE/97nuNdCEB8nB13cjdG3akyg8+4TjrjD4Ts+VKB6a3pjOrH+XKgn1dtYMPmeNgcBhvt+0fmiluO9UP+5K4tloHkWa9uyEMf1AzFn6A6j/kcBymSQp0AJltDA4= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:02:49 -0500 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:46:19 -0500, Daniel wrote: > it's called both a dampener and a damper. What you declare as its' > sole english value is irrelevent to the rest of the world in which > they both are used. This is another logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum.) Just because a lot of other people get the word wrong, does not make the incorrect usage viable. "Damper" is a very specific term within the contexts of physics and mechanical prinicples. Specifically, it is "a device that decreases the amplitude of electronic, mechanical, acoustical, or aerodynamic oscillations", or when used as a part of a system is used "to check some action at a particular time." I invite you to provide the names of 3 top-level racers that do not engage in significant training off of a motorcycle. - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 15:12:41 2004 From: Daniel To: "Aaron Ward" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:12:28 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- My arguement was, if you ride, your muscles become acustomed to doing th work and you don't need extra gymN strength... muscles, develope that which is needed from doing the work itself. No one is going to hit the gymN then all of a sudden be a super twisty rider. The super twisty rider is going to be the guy who does it frequently. His muscle will develope especially better for the tast by riding, than hitting the gymN. You can go hit the gymN all you want, but then when you go out and hit a million and one turns for the first time, guess what, you're going to be sore... The amount of steering strength needed to ride a motorcycle is negliable. Let's do a survey... we all ride... Anyone from the list want to tell me they wiped out in a curve because they just didn't have enough strength to countersteer? Do you hear that? Crickets.. Proof in the pudding. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 15:20:43 2004 From: Daniel To: Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:20:03 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- If your'e floating in the river and someone throws you a life preserver... that's correct usage. If someone throws you an innertube filled with air.. it works.. it's viable. Could you please post the definition of dampener as well? "to restrain to deaden" Therefor both terms are correct. I don't care about peoples training regiments... so i'm not going to research.. the arguement isn't that important to me.. But since you want to prove your point, I invite you to find 3 top level racers who specificly work to improve their arm strength so they can specificly counter steer. I doubt you will. Also find me any racer who wants to "bulk up" or "gain weight". As I said, if you're of average phsyique and want to be a good rider, you don't need ot hit the gymN you just need to hit the road/track that you want to be good at. The gymn won't make you better as much as riding will. On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:02:49 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:46:19 -0500, Daniel wrote: > >> it's called both a dampener and a damper. What you declare as its' >> sole english value is irrelevent to the rest of the world in which >> they both are used. > >This is another logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum.) Just because >a lot of other people get the word wrong, does not make the incorrect >usage viable. > >"Damper" is a very specific term within the contexts of physics and >mechanical prinicples. > >Specifically, it is "a device that decreases the amplitude of >electronic, mechanical, acoustical, or aerodynamic oscillations", or >when used as a part of a system is used "to check some action at a >particular time." > >I invite you to provide the names of 3 top-level racers that do not >engage in significant training off of a motorcycle. > >- Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 15:59:23 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: RE: The physical work behind sport bike riding Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:59:23 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791e140943321d74dacf0c8e8eb330a8f6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c If your'e floating in the river and someone throws you a life preserver... that's correct usage. If someone throws you an innertube filled with air.. it works.. it's viable. Could you please post the definition of dampener as well? "to restrain to deaden" Therefor both terms are correct. [Dave] previously, you had 'dampner'. Sean said 'damper' I find it humorous that both rhyme with pampers - the brand name of a commonly used disposable diaper. Diaper is a noun representing: A: A folded piece of absorbent material, such as paper or cloth, that is placed between a baby's legs and fastened at the waist to contain excretions. B: A similar piece of material, worn by incontinent adults. Strangely enough, pampers ( remember, rhymes with damper/dampner/dampener ) is also used to restrain shit. I don't care about peoples training regiments... [Dave] Generals have regiments. People who train have regimens. so i'm not going to research.. [Dave] Shocked, I am. the arguement isn't that important to me.. [Dave] and yet you continue to opine on the subject. Hmmm... But since youwant to prove your point, I invite you to find 3 top level racers who specificly work to improve their arm strength so they can specificly counter steer. I doubt you will. Also find me any racer who wants to "bulk up" or "gain weight". As I said, if you're of average physique and want to be a good rider, you don't need ot hit the gymN you just need to hit the road/track that you want to be good at. The gymn won't make you better as much as riding will. [Dave] Anthony Gobert is the only racer I can think of off the top of my head with the hint of a 'dough-boy' physique... The 'maverick' position or minority is Daniel's. I would say the burden of proof rests with him to prove there are a bunch of couch potatoes at moto racing top tiers. It shouldn't take more than a week or two to track down some top tier moto racers to get an accurate sampling indicative of reasonably accurate numbers to present us with a report. Dave On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:02:49 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:46:19 -0500, Daniel wrote: > >> it's called both a dampener and a damper. What you declare as its' >> sole english value is irrelevent to the rest of the world in which >> they both are used. > >This is another logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum.) Just because >a lot of other people get the word wrong, does not make the incorrect >usage viable. > >"Damper" is a very specific term within the contexts of physics and >mechanical prinicples. > >Specifically, it is "a device that decreases the amplitude of >electronic, mechanical, acoustical, or aerodynamic oscillations", or >when used as a part of a system is used "to check some action at a >particular time." > >I invite you to provide the names of 3 top-level racers that do not >engage in significant training off of a motorcycle. > >- Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 17:00:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=SkkZFrtpeBzkFHVZ/DrIjxuCtRenxeR9aKhQW5T/VCFx3krHVBQoLzewrEqqf3DUww4EmyRs/NuPCCnUSwuTHA12res78nX/upnZ5KXMzoLhlwKKRaWHfeyxyhnArJRF1SuQ8nA6EjURsCODWx6XXY3r8L7vk1GRfz4mqcLGWBs= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:00:32 -0500 From: Eric Geary To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge "Once the cops drop the violent crime rate to zero, then it would be acceptable for them to gaurd against candy bar theives and other non violent lesser crimes." Your missing the big picture here, you take all the cops off the roads and put them on murders and viloent crimes, then you have mass deaths on the streets since every1 and their mom are speeding only due because they can. so what if you add a cop on every corner besides this being extremely unrealistic what are you going to stop? the candy bar thieves that you dont care about. you wont stop murders or rapes ect. "we make criminals work in jail, we profit off of the goods we have them make, and we fine their earnings,," As for our jails prisoners do make things in many prisons that benefits the public, and they get a piece as well, inmates also have the right to education while their in jail which is to help them reabilitate. "instead of targeting speeders who may be operating fine for road conditions.. (empty yet coming into view of a speed trap)" as for targeting, in fairfax county and i believe in all of Va, they have created laws to target specifically "aggressive driving" that being people who arent just speeding but rather driving with the intent to harm. this began i believe about 5 years ago look it up in the books folks they are targeting agresive drivers much more then "regular" speeders. I dont want some stupid the point is the kid did something extremely stupid and got off pretty stinking easy. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 17:49:50 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Y/pnqTlOPAeWphnqOYL+0RwXFDiAJS2mLljaZgx4t4WhulvYGKgybCFMD7W6ANBsq6n+X2CYk8gC4AZX7/QEi8urLmIG4nlo0Q80DLV1rIls//8AwPsM5WlIKMfs3za7l6kkhEGXnizoch1l3lLp19dN8LQ9ryFayWHrJW1Kig8= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:49:44 -0500 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:59:23 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Anthony Gobert is the only racer I can think of off the top of my > head with the hint of a 'dough-boy' physique... > > The 'maverick' position or minority is Daniel's. I would say the burden of > proof rests with him to prove there are a bunch of couch potatoes at moto > racing top tiers. It shouldn't take more than a week or two to track down > some top tier moto racers to get an accurate sampling indicative of > reasonably accurate numbers to present us with a report. I can contact them right now - however, I'm not going to bother them over the holidays to settle an argument (especially one in which I am undoubtedly right.) And Anthony Gobert isn't racing anything these days, depite his talent. (Discipline is necessary to go fast too . . . no discpline, nobody to pay you to ride the good stuff!) - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 17:50:38 2004 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:48:43 -0500 To: Daniel , "Aaron Ward" From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 02:23 AM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >> Two riders of equal *riding education/skill*, the winner in a >>race would come down to the one with greater body strength. > >That's not true.. the winner would come down to at least one of the >following: > >1> the guy with the more aggression >2> the guy with the better (running) bike >3> the guy with the better weight/power ratio >4> the guy with the better luck Staying out of the "power to move the bars rapidly" discussion, since, like everyone else involved I have no actual scientific data to work with or even the math to estimate it, I still think you left out a few potential factors in your list: 5> the guy with the better tuned suspension 6> the guy with more familiarity with the track 7> the guy who got the best rest the night before 8> the guy with the better concentration and reflexes 9> the guy with the better understanding of the other potential leaders' psychology There are probably more that someone who wins races would be familiar with, but I'm not a racer, let alone a winning one. >The bulkier guy might actually lose because muscle weighs more than >fat, and a heavier "strongly built" rider would actually be slower >than even himself if he were thinner. If you added 20 pounds of >muscle on your frame you'd probably lose about 3 miles per hour at top >end speeds. You'd probably lose a few HP over all. So in all >fairness becoming more muscular may in fact slow you down. Strength and muscle bulk are not necesarrily the same thing. Mark Spitz was a pretty strong guy, but he was thin as a rail too. >The hypothesis that you need strength to ride is hooey. If you have no strength, you can't ride. Period. How much strength you need may be in question, but you do need some to get on the bike. Since this all started with Julian, who's in pretty decent shape from what I've seen, saying that he was sore in places he didn't even know he had after a day of training (I presume from what he said about it that it was track-like riding training, not cruising), I'd say that riding like that will require a fair bit of muscle use. Given that fact, it would seem to me that the stronger your required muscles are, the more easily you will accomplish the movements required, and the farther you are from your maximum exertion point, the better your fine control is, and fine control is a good thing to have at high speeds. I'd also guess, and Julian can correct me if I'm wrong, that it wasn't arm strength that he was bothered by, so the whole "countersteering" thread is off track completely. It sounded to me more like it was thigh strength that was the issue...particularly abductor muscles used for gripping the bike with your knees...and perhaps the lower back, so that you can hold yourself up and keep weight off the bars so you can control the bike better. The bars are a control, not a grab bar or support system (something I learned riding my Yamaha XT550 in the dirt...though the upright seating postilion on that bike made it a lot easier to keep weight off of them than is the case with a sport bike). It would also take some muscle strength, and endurance, to shift yourself quickly from one side of the bike to the other to "drag a knee" for rapid cornering changes. If you don't think that it takes strength to increase the acceleration of an object (such as your body), rather than just to move it at all, then why do sprinters, baseball pitchers and others who accelerate things for a living spend so much time weight training? > Going to the >gymn isn't neccessary to develop "riding muscles", riding will develop >"riding muscles". As with any deed, doing it, will condition you for >doing it. I agree with you, up to a point. Doing a task will condition you to do it, but it might not do so as rapidly as properly designed weight training or other exercises will. Doing something only stresses muscles to the extent necessary to do it, while the other forms of exercise can stress them well past that, and so develop them more quickly and to a greater extent...which might allow you do "do" to a greater extent and move into a whole new level you weren't capable of reaching before. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 18:26:57 2004 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:56:59 -0500 To: Daniel , Daniel From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:46 AM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >another travesty of justice I think he could have gotten off completely, using some of the arguments and calculations posted here at the time the event first made the news, but chose not to so that he could get into the record books...as it turned out, he got little more than a slap on the wrist for it. $125, 200 hours of "community service" and a "we're watching you closely for the next year"? Not much at all...folks here have faced far worse for filtering offenses in Virginia... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 18:36:56 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=fho+o+s49g76hZzNRcdoB8uABFuXwRhnbH+h3+AE5NOdRACTcunpsoR+aZSUizEeGFs5HEiiRIl9H9A0YyEbExFqckcuoJ3vtdFLY9aCpvFdjW/8tBYd9VlkM86eyRo+nwz9zOZHokilMUpobX/Szlk8Ye3/WEJG/zOSigfgLGM= Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:36:48 -0500 From: Aaron Maurer To: "Mike B." Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Cc: Daniel , dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:56:59 -0500, Mike B. wrote: > At 06:46 AM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: > >another travesty of justice > > I think he could have gotten off completely, using some of the arguments > and calculations posted here at the time the event first made the news, but > chose not to so that he could get into the record books...as it turned out, > he got little more than a slap on the wrist for it. $125, 200 hours of > "community service" and a "we're watching you closely for the next year"? > Not much at all...folks here have faced far worse for filtering offenses in > Virginia... > > -- > -- Mike B. Pure speculation Mike. Now here's mine: I severly doubt in my experience that "he could have gotten off completely," and I'd say that it is a far safer bet that he chose to plead guilty to avoid jail time, not "so that he could get into the record books." In my opinion, I don't think it's a travesty of justice. He was going way too fast, and easily could have killed himself or others. And yes, I do think that the government should be able to police whether people kill themselves or others. And yes, I wear a helmet, even where not required. And yes, it might be a *little* inconsistent, but I think lane splitting should be decriminalized. Happy New Year. Aaron (about to ride home from work. Sucks.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 18:45:32 2004 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:41:54 -0500 To: "Aaron Ward" , daniel.dc@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: The physical work behind sport bike riding Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:29 PM 12/26/04 -0500, Aaron Ward wrote: > >do it quickly. How do you think you can get a bike (and your body) from >pointing vertical to quickly pointing at 45 degrees leaned over? Do you >think it's just gravity? No, you have to pull and push the >bars/countersteer to initiate that leaned-over state prior to entering the >turn. I don't disagree with you fundamentally, but there are a lot of things involved in what you are talking about, other than the force on the bar end. The geometry of the bike is one big one that can let a small force control a much larger one. How fast can you pick up your bike from a 45 degree lean to vertical while stopped? Pick any body position you like. I suspect it's a lot longer than it takes you to do the same thing at speed while riding. Your strength isn't what moves the bike back and forth while riding...that's the momentum of the bike, the power of the engine, the geometry of the frame and steering and physics. You just put in a small change to "unbalance" things in the right way and the bike and physics does the rest. A properly designed bike will re-stabilize in the new orientation once you stop your input. Improperly designed bikes (such as some of the early choppers with seriously screwed up trail configurations) won't, and are often described as "floppy", "squirrelly", or as having "really funky handling" and being hard to ride. If it really took a lot of strength to steer a bike at speed, bars would be getting longer for more leverage, not shorter, on sport bikes. I think strength is involved to an extent, and the faster you want to change forces the more of it you will need, but I don't think that even a very fast change takes huge strength that is beyond the average rider to exert without special training. The gym training for racers comes in more handy for the gross body movements needed to shift weight, holding "unnatural" postures, and for the endurance it takes not to tire out after doing that for a long while. I really doubt it's just so you can control the bike's bar movements. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 18:45:33 2004 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:29:21 -0500 To: Daniel , Eric Geary From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 12:43 PM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >1. The kid did not slam into any cars nor hurt any persons - we don't >know if there was even a car around for him to risk anyone's safety. >so it may be premature to judge that right now. Wrong. The law is there because there's a good chance that there might have been, and probably has been more than once in the past with other speeders. That particular speeder is not omniscient, so he had no way of knowing if there was anyone else around either. Society has considered the situation, and rendered judgement about what behavior is to be allowed. It has not granted any individual the right to decide for themselves that it's ok to go faster on a given occasion on the public roads (on a track, go ahead and max it out). If an individual takes that right anyway, there are penalties to try to convince them not to do it again. Pissing and moaning because you think you know better and want to do differently is just childish, ignorant and stupid. That there was no tragedy in this particular instance is something to be thankful for, but it doesn't change the situation with respect to the law having been broken, or make that law less reasonable. >2. The highway patrol ARE looking for SPEEDERS to gain revenue > vs just scouting around for agressive drivers. I agree with you. Radar took the cops off the streets and put them in the bushes. About the only thing that gets enforced anymore is speeding. Crossing the double yellow, running red lights, failing to stop at stop signs, tailgating, faulty equipment, failure to signal turns and lane changes, failure to dim high beams, changing more than one lane at a time, failure to yield, and a host of other offenses I see every time I go out on the roadways aren't enforced much anymore as the cops never see them happen from their bushy hiding places. I suspect the average driver doesn't even know they *are* offenses anymore, given how frequently I see them. >4. We have a standards in this country where bad evidence is not >allowed and grounds for aquittal. Yeah, and in some cases I think there are better ways to handle that. >5. "what if" some crook were murdering your family the same time the >cops were writing that kid a ticket not harming anyone.. you would be >wishing the police were patrolling the vicinity. And "what if" the cops were staking out a local liquor store that had been robbed 4 times in the last 3 months at the same time some kid was driving too fast, same as he always does, and crossed the center line to make a turn, and took out your wife and kids in a head-on collision? >So yes, as long as said bike isn't harming anyone, and real hardened >criminals are harming people, it is a waste of resources to be >gathering inacurate evidence against speeders. Cops are supposed to enforce all the laws. That individual bike might not have harmed anyone, but other bikes doing similar things have...along with even more cars and trucks. The cops are out looking for all of them in an attempt to get people to drive sensibly, and thus save a few of the ~42,000 people PER YEAR who die on our highways. You'd rather they give up, let the death toll rise, so that some more robberies might be foiled and some cash saved? ~42,000 dead people per year might have a problem with that plan, even if it lets you drive as fast as you think is reasonable at the time (you may be wrong...I suspect many of the ~42,000 dead people per year were killed by people who thought the same thing until the universe proved them wrong). If you can come up with some way to tell for sure, ahead of time, which speeders will be no problem and which will be big problems I'd guess we could get the laws changed. Until then, they are all going to be limited to what the law allows, or face penalties. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. >Once the cops drop the violent crime rate to zero, then it would be >acceptable for them to gaurd against candy bar theives and other non >violent lesser crimes. They should certainly be concentrating on the most harmful crimes first, as modified by the ones they can actually do something about. I suspect they think that's what they are doing, and the legislature agrees with them, and therefore, so do the voters or it would be different. If you want to drop enforcement for things that aren't real problems, speeding is not high on the list of possibilities IMO. It kills too many people every year to be considered "harmless". Things like minor drug possession for personal use would probably top the list though. >sport bike riders. Society would be better served by the cop letting >the sport bike rider keep on going and wait for that drunk driver to >come along. I think they can do both. They do need to get out of the bushes though, and out on the roads where they can see all the offenses, not just speeding. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 19:00:30 2004 Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:00:11 -0500 To: Aaron Maurer From: "Mike B." Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Cc: Daniel , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:36 PM 12/26/04 -0500, Aaron Maurer wrote: >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:56:59 -0500, Mike B. wrote: >> At 06:46 AM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >> >another travesty of justice >> >> I think he could have gotten off completely, using some of the arguments >> and calculations posted here at the time the event first made the news, but >> chose not to so that he could get into the record books...as it turned out, > >Pure speculation Mike. Yep! 100% speculation as I don't know the guy involved and haven't heard anything from him about it. ;-) >Now here's mine: I severly doubt in my >experience that "he could have gotten off completely," and I'd say >that it is a far safer bet that he chose to plead guilty to avoid jail >time, not "so that he could get into the record books." Good point. He was definitely speeding...the question he could have argued would be by how much? Since folks here pretty much proved that the bike he was on couldn't have been going the ticketed speed, he didn't have to plead guilty to doing the impossible, since the state couldn't have proven that he did it. How that gets handled in court may vary from place to place, and I don't know how it would get handled where he was. Whether the whole thing gets thrown out for "bad evidence", or the judge amends the ticket to read a more possible speed or something else. That's why I said he probably could have gotten off if he'd wanted to. >In my opinion, I don't think it's a travesty of justice. I do only to the extent that his punishment is pretty light for such a gross infraction. >And yes, I wear a helmet, even where not required. Me too. PA, and DE so far, and even with some peer pressure to do otherwise from those I was with who doffed theirs at the borderline. >And yes, it might be a *little* inconsistent, but I think lane >splitting should be decriminalized. If you mean filtering at stoplights, I think that might be negotiable. If you mean passing between other vehicles in motion, I disagree...that's way too dangerous to allow. If you mean riding side-by-side in a single lane with another bike, that might be negotiable too. I've heard the term "lane splitting" used for all three of these, so I'm not sure which you are referring to here. >Happy New Year. You too! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 26 21:53:26 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=U+M197ZC8g0eO5CzLjIQ/8FI3qIodp3YX6Bvyehc0+6HeQuJBWv2XUOq435ubkjM68PPCt82K1WRUkIAswV62D3wIt7RmzeCJq1tjcS0xmqOudsD6lYe7LzOPQkgbOSbCQLvXnbyD8Dil0MfaSC5zyhzeBxzMXvDtbryNot+Irw= ; Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge To: "Mike B." , Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "Mike B." wrote: > At 06:46 AM 12/26/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: > >another travesty of justice > > I think he could have gotten off completely, using some > of the arguments > and calculations posted here at the time the event first > made the news, but > chose not to so that he could get into the record > books...as it turned out, > he got little more than a slap on the wrist for it. > $125, 200 hours of > "community service" and a "we're watching you closely for > the next year"? > Not much at all...folks here have faced far worse for > filtering offenses in > Virginia... i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of community service. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 09:13:09 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , "Mike B." , Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:16:46 -0500 I have never done community service as part of the out come of a criminal sentencing but don't they stretch the 200 hours out over a very long time. I don't think you get to knock out all 200 hours in 3-4 weeks, I think you have to do like 8 hours /week over like months. In any case the guy didn't make out so bad for going 205 mph (or so they say). Rob On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of community > service. > > -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 10:41:50 2004 From: Daniel To: Tom Gimer Cc: "Mike B." , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:41:34 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote: > >i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of community >service. I guess you live in the right state then. of course you get free room and board too.. and you could hone up on your chess skills.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 10:51:54 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=yl2fBfIEbpSh7yPGxRH+/BlVnZ0O01SJVhNlS0vKBdqAv3M3TvC9oH2l4LtTvih/lkwH2IRroR0AsfcHn6oXuoT6aNOFrIQfLlYpXvpP0Jrk1JogGrAPgbPdDahbHI7v2kxR6qQxX2/7pDBIpCyJK4d+0ycvrhm3A3k1hXD1/fE= ; Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:51:47 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge To: Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Daniel wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer > wrote: > > > >i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of > community > >service. > > I guess you live in the right state then. > > of course you get free room and board too.. and you could > hone up on > your chess skills.. > > i will never, ever wash another state trooper's patrol car. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 10:54:54 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:54:38 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- and driving without a lisense and unisured. he made out pretty good.. it's almost like no wonder he rides around with out all that, it's cheaper to risk getting caught if that's all their going to do. btw soem friends of mine decided they wanted to go to frederick from gaithersburg a few months back, and a pack of other people went too. somewhere along the way a couple of cop cars, 1 marked, 1 unmarked did a stop. One of my friends (having a passenger) stopped, the rest "blasted". Supposedly the unmarked cop got a tag # of one of my other friends. They went to his house he wasn't home. Later he went to the precinct with the "twas not me, THIS is teh helmet and jacket i wear" song and dance. They gave him like 8 tickets. The running joke is that the guy who pulled over gave up the other guy, but he doesn't know his name and address like that.. so a cop must have gotten the guys displayed tag #. I think the one that pulled over got like a $125 ticket. I'll let you guys know how everything turns out. On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:16:46 -0500, "Rob Sharp" wrote: >I have never done community service as part of the out come of a criminal >sentencing but don't they stretch the 200 hours out over a very long time. I >don't think you get to knock out all 200 hours in 3-4 weeks, I think you have >to do like 8 hours /week over like months. In any case the guy didn't make >out so bad for going 205 mph (or so they say). > > >Rob > >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote >> i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of community >> service. >> >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 11:15:48 2004 Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:15:45 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: Subject: EMS WindStopper Gloves I found these gloves - sure look warm! http://www.ems.com "EMS WindStopper Gloves, Men's. $29.00" How much protection do you think they'll give if you come off the bike? Also, how does the sizing run? I usually wear an XXL glove, but I see this goes up only to XL. thanks, Chris ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Rob Sharp" Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:02:38 -0500 >While I don't ride in the cold much, I have a pair of EMS cold weather rock >climbing gloves. They are wind "proof" and my hands were sweating after a >brisk ride in 30 degree weather at highway speeds. > > >Rob > >On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 00:11:19 -0500, smthng else wrote >> On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:05:42 -0500, Julian Halton >> wrote: >> > On the non-electrics note, I have yet to find a set of gloves that >> > makes more than a half an hour jaunt past sunset more than an exercise >> > in tolerance. >> > They survive on the top of Mount Everest, surely there must be gloves >> > that keep your hands warm...somewhere? >> >> The ONLY combo I've found that works worth a squat in real cold >> weather is a set of silk liners, heavy neoprene diving gloves (3 mil >> I think) and top that off with Aerostitch triple digit covers if >> it's REALLY bad. >> >> But... someone posted somewhere about the "new and improved" hippo >> hand control covers. For $51, that's way cheaper than many gloves >> I've paid for and hated. I'm probably going to give that a shot. I >> can afford to look like a dork for a couple months. Besides... I >> dorky MC rider is still way cooler than any cager. :P >> >> > As for deer, I have found a new behaviour, I never allowed for. I >> > always assumed after stories of pipelines blocking caribou migrations >> > that deer would elect to not attempt to cross barriers such as the wall >> > along the river side of Canal road. Well, when I came across a >> > beautiful buck standing on the wall looking down on my be-chilled, two >> > wheeled self, I added this behaviour as something else to watch out for. >> >> Also be aware of the ever popular "second pass" tactic they use! >> I've seen them run from me just to get me off my guard. They then >> do a quick 180 and head back at me when they reach the other side of >> the road. Tricky bastards! >> >> --smthng >> http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng > > >-- >Rob Sharp >rob@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 11:26:20 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:30:03 -0500 Thats two coats of WAX Tom! I want to see my face in the hood. Rob On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:51:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > > i will never, ever wash another state trooper's patrol car. > > -- > tg > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 27 14:21:08 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=J56FyAelhjwAD9jNlIHbUo6CEcA8x30eetKEXmaynVMUPRQyKjBR4/MfAppymFhngr3exyRcrDq6bl2syl40ABfP/O3fWXnLFliHTvytQ5+UtLT8KiZWURSCeTlYoJQHp6Pm9r85lPthRh/QPp4Ch5rtKUt6U0FbLtke2L3pBDs= ; Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:21:00 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge To: Rob Sharp , Daniel Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Thats two coats of WAX Tom! I want to see my face in the > hood. > > Rob sorry about the puddle in your back seat. the window was cracked just a tad to make room for the radar gun, but i didn't notice it until it was too late..... > On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:51:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > > > > i will never, ever wash another state trooper's patrol > car. > > > > -- > > tg > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. > > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo > > > -- > Rob Sharp > rob@XXXXXX > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 08:12:06 2004 From: Jason Picton To: "'Daniel '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:10:21 -0500 hmmm.. Similiar thing happened to someone I know... But only the person that got pulled over got any kind of ticket. The cop got at least one other tag #, and one of the blasters was issued several tix after the fact. The tix didn't stick - cause they couldn't prove HE was on the bike.. I don't know all the lawyer'ese... However, I thought that you couldn't issue a moving violation to a vehicle - Does anyone know if this is the case?? -----Original Message----- From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge and driving without a lisense and unisured. he made out pretty good.. it's almost like no wonder he rides around with out all that, it's cheaper to risk getting caught if that's all their going to do. btw soem friends of mine decided they wanted to go to frederick from gaithersburg a few months back, and a pack of other people went too. somewhere along the way a couple of cop cars, 1 marked, 1 unmarked did a stop. One of my friends (having a passenger) stopped, the rest "blasted". Supposedly the unmarked cop got a tag # of one of my other friends. They went to his house he wasn't home. Later he went to the precinct with the "twas not me, THIS is teh helmet and jacket i wear" song and dance. They gave him like 8 tickets. The running joke is that the guy who pulled over gave up the other guy, but he doesn't know his name and address like that.. so a cop must have gotten the guys displayed tag #. I think the one that pulled over got like a $125 ticket. I'll let you guys know how everything turns out. On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:16:46 -0500, "Rob Sharp" wrote: >I have never done community service as part of the out come of a criminal >sentencing but don't they stretch the 200 hours out over a very long time. I >don't think you get to knock out all 200 hours in 3-4 weeks, I think you have >to do like 8 hours /week over like months. In any case the guy didn't make >out so bad for going 205 mph (or so they say). > > >Rob > >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:53:18 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote >> i'd rather serve 30-60 days than do 200 hours of community >> service. >> >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 09:50:14 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Daniel , "Dave Yates" Cc: Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:53:48 -0500 Do you want to buy something a prisoner made ? I don't, except maybe a license plate :) Rob On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:59:34 -0500, Daniel wrote > we make criminals work in jail, we profit off of the goods we have > them make, and we fine their earnings,, > and htey can get out of jail after they've served their given time > + pay with the money they've earned inside. Hell it may habitually > condition them to working and maybe getting a job when they get out, > and giving them some start off money to start their life over, > instead of mugging that little old lady and going right back. -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 10:32:48 2004 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:32:39 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: RE: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge At 08:10 AM 12/28/04 -0500, Jason Picton wrote: >all the lawyer'ese... However, I thought that you couldn't issue a moving >violation to a vehicle - Does anyone know if this is the case?? I think the red light cameras have answered that one...it gets issued to the registered vehicle owner, unless he/she wants to say who was driving at the time of the offense. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 10:35:35 2004 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:35:31 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "Mike B." Subject: Prison labor (was: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph)charge At 09:53 AM 12/28/04 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Do you want to buy something a prisoner made ? I don't, except maybe a >license plate :) When I worked for the Federal Judicial Center the desks were all made in prison. They looked very nice, but you could get splinters from the undersides of the drawers and other areas not immediately visible. Some prisoners obviously had learned some decent woodworking skills, but chose not to apply them where they didn't have to. I hope they lost that attitude when they got out and went looking for real jobs... Just be glad they don't build bikes for sale to the public! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 19:50:59 2004 From: Daniel To: "Rob Sharp" Cc: "Dave Yates" , Subject: Re: (fwd) Tilley pleads guilty to bogus 205-mph charge Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:50:44 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- I would but I dont' want ot put all those child laborers in china out of business :) I'd rather buy something a prisoner made than him breaking in stealing somehting i bought elsewhere lol On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:53:48 -0500, "Rob Sharp" wrote: >Do you want to buy something a prisoner made ? I don't, except maybe a >license plate :) > >Rob > >On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 12:59:34 -0500, Daniel wrote >> we make criminals work in jail, we profit off of the goods we have >> them make, and we fine their earnings,, >> and htey can get out of jail after they've served their given time >> + pay with the money they've earned inside. Hell it may habitually >> condition them to working and maybe getting a job when they get out, >> and giving them some start off money to start their life over, >> instead of mugging that little old lady and going right back. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 28 20:13:38 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=aztVNV85ka2CHra5xIbRbaBZUoODroqjMoVDKcD/7FnlwIf7lGYvhX+zyLJDrIVkmSUHseS3weWhMBSEKmQKKBMR3mjSqIHpkc/aDw0/wDjmcHJx42cC+Pe4NYpW0Ngh0sO35jBwTK6VwBGo4jISAdKjvgRzKI7JXEN4/iudgr4= Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:13:30 -0500 From: J D To: skip Subject: Re: Biker down in Centreville Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:19:46 -0500, skip wrote: > according to my firend, who is a paramedic, if they call for the > chopper, it's usually too late. > Depends highly on the jurisdiction... when I was a FF/EMT in Loudoun Co. Any major trauma got a flight, because we were in most cases (from our 1st due area) a good 45min, or more to a trauma center. In Fairfax co. they do alot more ground transports to the trauma centers than flights. We were also allowed to fly based on MOI (method of injury) and patient's LOC (level of consciousness) . If you were in a car accident, fall, or other major trauma event, and were less than fully lucid it was about 90% certain you were getting an air ride, weather, and availability permitting. As an engine officer I probably had a fly out once every 6-8 weeks, and I worked 1 shift a week. -J From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 29 00:49:56 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: I just saw TORQUE Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:50:23 -0500 And I thought Biker Boys was bad...okay, it was. I also saw Finding Nemo today...much more realistic! Thank God I got the Collectors Edition of FASTER for Christmas! Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 00:24:22 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: Subject: List down? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:50 -0500 No posts today...or is it me? Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 00:33:10 2004 From: "David Cross" To: Subject: RE: I just saw TORQUE Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:32:55 -0500 What did you think of FASTER? dave -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: I just saw TORQUE And I thought Biker Boys was bad...okay, it was. I also saw Finding Nemo today...much more realistic! Thank God I got the Collectors Edition of FASTER for Christmas! Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 00:34:51 2004 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'David Cross'" , Subject: RE: I just saw TORQUE Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:35:29 -0500 I haven't watched the final release I have, but the early release was very entertaining. Gary -----Original Message----- From: David Cross [mailto:dc-cycles@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: I just saw TORQUE What did you think of FASTER? dave -----Original Message----- From: Gary Foreman [mailto:lists@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: I just saw TORQUE And I thought Biker Boys was bad...okay, it was. I also saw Finding Nemo today...much more realistic! Thank God I got the Collectors Edition of FASTER for Christmas! Gary From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 10:21:57 2004 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:19:36 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Gary Foreman CC: "'David Cross'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I just saw TORQUE Gary Foreman wrote: >I haven't watched the final release I have, but the early release was very >entertaining. > > It's definitely a great movie. One of the best documentary type films on racing. And Rossi is hysterical to boot! LAR www.speedwerks.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 19:12:31 2004 From: "David Lowenstein" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Ramp Recommendation Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:12:14 -0500 Hi Folks - I'm looking for recommendations on a high quality motorcycle ramp, suitable for loading both dirtbikes and full-size (but not Harley dresser size) motorcycles into a full-size unmodified (i.e., no lift kit) 2wd pickup. Any particular manufacturers, suppliers, or designs to seek or avoid? Thanks, Dave ========================================= Dave Lowenstein Washington, DC dlowenstein@XXXXXX 67 E-Type OTS S1.5 driver 71 Ford F-100 Styleside 79 Triumph T140E Bonneville 00 Aprilia Scarabeo 50 scooter Keeping parts guys in business nationwide ========================================= From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 21:31:09 2004 X-Superb-Authentication: SMTP AUTH verified Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:30:44 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Chris Chubb Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/30/04 X-Spam-Level: At 07:00 PM 12/30/2004, you wrote: >Subject: RE: I just saw TORQUE >What did you think of FASTER? What I loved about the FASTER movie was that they spent the right amount of time looking into the super inflated egos that really push the competition of the sport and left plenty of time to go into the history of the technical innovations and the changes in riding styles that have made it faster, crazier and more competitive. There are two versions? I saw it a good 8 months ago, was that the early version? Chris From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 30 22:33:25 2004 From: Patrick Carter To: Subject: Enclosed trailer Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:33:17 -0500 Anyone got an enclosed trailer that I can rent to haul a couple bikes? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 00:11:32 2004 Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 00:11:27 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: I have an aluminum "arced" ramp that they say holds 1500 lbs for around $90. It managed to get my FJR in the bed of my Avalanche with me on it without any complaints. Light enough to pick up with one hand if needed. I couldn't find any manufacturers marks on it, but it's dark. I'll check again in the morning when I can see. The Avalanche has a higher tailgate than your average pickup and I have the Z71 off-road package on it to add another inch or so. If I can manage it with that set up, you shouldn't have a problem with a 2 wheel drive at all. If you're going to be loading on a regular basis, spend the money for a decent aluminum arced or curved ladder ramp. The ease of use will pay off in the long run. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng - Currently in Florida with sun and lots of long roads. :) > -----Original Message----- > From: David Lowenstein [mailto:dlowenstein@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:12 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Ramp Recommendation > > Hi Folks - > > I'm looking for recommendations on a high quality motorcycle > ramp, suitable for loading both dirtbikes and full-size (but > not Harley dresser size) motorcycles into a full-size > unmodified (i.e., no lift kit) 2wd pickup. > > Any particular manufacturers, suppliers, or designs to seek or avoid? > > Thanks, > > Dave > > ========================================= > Dave Lowenstein > Washington, DC > dlowenstein@XXXXXX > > 67 E-Type OTS S1.5 driver > 71 Ford F-100 Styleside > 79 Triumph T140E Bonneville > 00 Aprilia Scarabeo 50 scooter > Keeping parts guys in business nationwide > ========================================= > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 07:35:18 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=rQGwBrfd/AXrSgU7ayr3lBvtJTxDYLpUJm94ksOs+dv05JdrRAlrbzarH9mk74f/iKwYGt2nBlhg/EcZJ9UxoSxOkqxXRAF1pO4LaHoSf3iEAE1JtVdzl4D3Kwa8xlroNdQq1FP0BO9ciRtCpEheKROqIfbwA2MIk5cKYpa9ZZ0= ; Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 04:35:07 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX fast lane cycles in chantilly stocks arched aluminum ramps. --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" wrote: > I have an aluminum "arced" ramp that they say holds 1500 > lbs for around > $90. It managed to get my FJR in the bed of my Avalanche > with me on it > without any complaints. Light enough to pick up with one > hand if > needed. I couldn't find any manufacturers marks on it, > but it's dark. > I'll check again in the morning when I can see. > > The Avalanche has a higher tailgate than your average > pickup and I have > the Z71 off-road package on it to add another inch or so. > If I can > manage it with that set up, you shouldn't have a problem > with a 2 wheel > drive at all. > > If you're going to be loading on a regular basis, spend > the money for a > decent aluminum arced or curved ladder ramp. The ease of > use will pay > off in the long run. > > --smthng > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng - Currently in > Florida with sun and > lots of long roads. :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: David Lowenstein [mailto:dlowenstein@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:12 PM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Ramp Recommendation > > > > Hi Folks - > > > > I'm looking for recommendations on a high quality > motorcycle > > ramp, suitable for loading both dirtbikes and full-size > (but > > not Harley dresser size) motorcycles into a full-size > > unmodified (i.e., no lift kit) 2wd pickup. > > > > Any particular manufacturers, suppliers, or designs to > seek or avoid? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > > > ========================================= > > Dave Lowenstein > > Washington, DC > > dlowenstein@XXXXXX > > > > 67 E-Type OTS S1.5 driver > > 71 Ford F-100 Styleside > > 79 Triumph T140E Bonneville > > 00 Aprilia Scarabeo 50 scooter > > Keeping parts guys in business nationwide > > ========================================= > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 10:17:56 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:22:20 -0500 I use a 2 x 10 with a ramp attachment I got from home depot. I would not recommend it for anything heavy. It worked fine with the Hawk GT which is like 380 lbs but with the VFR (500+ lbs) it's pretty skiddish and it flexes a lot. I only had to use it like 4 times and it worked all 4 times and the board never gave or cracked. I bet it's cheaper than an arched alum ramp tho :-D Rob On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 04:35:07 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > fast lane cycles in chantilly stocks arched aluminum ramps. > > --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" wrote: > > > I have an aluminum "arced" ramp that they say holds 1500 > > lbs for around > > $90. It managed to get my FJR in the bed of my Avalanche > > with me on it > > without any complaints. Light enough to pick up with one > > hand if > > needed. I couldn't find any manufacturers marks on it, > > but it's dark. > > I'll check again in the morning when I can see. > > > > The Avalanche has a higher tailgate than your average > > pickup and I have > > the Z71 off-road package on it to add another inch or so. > > If I can > > manage it with that set up, you shouldn't have a problem > > with a 2 wheel > > drive at all. > > > > If you're going to be loading on a regular basis, spend > > the money for a > > decent aluminum arced or curved ladder ramp. The ease of > > use will pay > > off in the long run. > > > > --smthng > > http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng - Currently in > > Florida with sun and > > lots of long roads. :) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David Lowenstein [mailto:dlowenstein@XXXXXX] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:12 PM > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Ramp Recommendation > > > > > > Hi Folks - > > > > > > I'm looking for recommendations on a high quality > > motorcycle > > > ramp, suitable for loading both dirtbikes and full-size > > (but > > > not Harley dresser size) motorcycles into a full-size > > > unmodified (i.e., no lift kit) 2wd pickup. > > > > > > Any particular manufacturers, suppliers, or designs to > > seek or avoid? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > ========================================= > > > Dave Lowenstein > > > Washington, DC > > > dlowenstein@XXXXXX > > > > > > 67 E-Type OTS S1.5 driver > > > 71 Ford F-100 Styleside > > > 79 Triumph T140E Bonneville > > > 00 Aprilia Scarabeo 50 scooter > > > Keeping parts guys in business nationwide > > > ========================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 11:01:05 2004 Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:19:54 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation On Fri, 31 Dec 2004, Rob Sharp wrote: > I would not recommend it for anything heavy. It worked fine with the Hawk GT > which is like 380 lbs but with the VFR (500+ lbs) it's pretty skiddish and it > flexes a lot. I only had to use it like 4 times and it worked all 4 times and > the board never gave or cracked. I bet it's cheaper than an arched alum ramp > tho :-D > > Rob I bet a good, sturdy ramp is cheaper than VFR plastics. :-D -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 11:50:29 2004 Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:50:24 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I couldn't find any > manufacturers marks on it, but it's dark. > I'll check again in the morning when I can see. I still can't find any manufacturer info on mine. It's your basic curved aluminum ladder ramp, 7 ft in length. Probably weighs about 10 lbs (total guess on my part). If I had the need and the space to store one, I'd probably snag one of these: http://www.motorcycleramps.com/non_folding_motorcycle_ramps.htm --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 31 21:04:57 2004 X-Superb-Authentication: SMTP AUTH verified Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:04:06 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX (The dc-cycles list administrator) From: Chris Chubb Subject: RE: Ramp Recommendation X-Spam-Level: At 07:00 PM 12/31/2004, you wrote: >I use a 2 x 10 with a ramp attachment I got from home depot. > >I would not recommend it for anything heavy. It worked fine with the Hawk GT >which is like 380 lbs but with the VFR (500+ lbs) it's pretty skiddish and it >flexes a lot. I only had to use it like 4 times and it worked all 4 times and >the board never gave or cracked. I bet it's cheaper than an arched alum ramp >tho :-D I have gone the 2x6 and 2x10 ramp route before as well. In order to make it about 10 times stronger and much better for loading a bike, get a pair of 2x4s the same length and attach one to each side, flush on the bottom, sticking up a couple of inches on the sides. A 16d framing nail or 3.5 inch deck screw every 10 inches or so to connect, staggering each sides nails. With the side rails the board is very stiff and there is no chance of letting the wheels slide off the edge while going up or down. If you don't want to buy the aluminum "ramp edges" to lay on the pickup truck gate you should at least put a piece of 1x2 or 2x2 on the end of the board on the bottom, crosswise to keep it from falling off the edge once you are 1/2 way down. But, for like $5 each the aluminum brackets make it much easier to get the wheel over the edge when coming off the truck. A 10 foot (8 foot for lightweight 1/2 ton trucks and most 2WD) 2x10 and 2 2x4s does weigh a bunch though. If you are worried about weight of have to carry them far on a regular basis, the aluminum folding ramps are nice though. Chubber