From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:42:52 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=uGa/DOI0nXC2IOd2VM7kZO72rX/8G4ElRjwSh4d96WhluzHz/WABoe1JE0BU4mRnLtT/MhWk4+CcAU01oSHPRxmRixLuFlwSNcwx8+IZpgxRoCocx/YgWN5Pys7+Jst3xlNmDuzqHCNcv+sSZE8FZPk58HSpn90e1IRZ/kqoYkU= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The Bike Shipping Thread To: Skip , Mike Moore Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX i used a company called forwardair. they were great. online scheduling, reasonable rates, etc. --- Skip wrote: > Mike Moore wrote: > > > > Hey all, > > > > I know this comes up from time to time, but I wanted > > to see what the current consensus on shipping your > > bike. > > > > A friend just moved here from MS, and needs to get his > > bike shipped up. He is, of course, looking for the > > most economic way to ship the bike but also wants to > > make sure the bike arrives in the same condition it > > departed in. > > > > Mike > > Greyhound. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:45:43 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=SVAHpsdllP7W3QZ0gpP4dbMYT88dsQv54kwCd1OhxeLvShFyy1YIX7RYeviyB8pYJrSVc9j3xdlX631GKZ8H0tvUzXXJqObL2XAqH5GGuIrbeIPL4YWbWqQ3riOg0aaJRkrvG2ZCJYRWZpc3ulfjLsCj4vrfcP759AyAX0Fg+34= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:33:45 -0500, Michael Jordan > wrote: > > > Before someone (probably one of my kids) throws > something at me - the > > Norton is a parallel twin, not a V-twin. > > I started to say something, but then realized that > perhaps I shouldn't > do so, should I want to be allowed to put my motorcycle > in your garage > when I move back to Va . . . > > :) you been thrown out of school yet? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:48:45 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vwE4pOwNjzvMcXnzRy8+PpctBLYV1OEEHm0SZ3fJnPqvYU91ZCZ9yEgiSkMkDvogeIiMem5BJ5UB8JwG2q0e3A2vpJQzAcz/22wF8MBvi4y8VDukGAFaBHxZEqUPrwUhUgcG6tNoADg+fVUzr+a3nN6k/kteqOCEfYxsbyy+LJg= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:48:35 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Perry Coleman wrote: > On the other hand, there are dealerships in the area that > I won't step foot > in. I'd drive long distances before I would ever go back. > Gettysburg H-D is > probably going to end up as one of those. Assuming I ever > decide to buy a > Harley. Criswell did have a 2005 Concours in the > showroom... ;^) are you sure it wasn't a leftover 1986? ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 07:51:41 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=EM9BIYlxfdX8YCKThfjYmwT250v7QjOnhWE8yh7Ak5MF4df6GvCoGhKTxPVYsB5RFcXzkA+ix+8yfX4ZPWfg1rq5vmsliPw1Ese9colOlWznm2xYKGTDndYBp2sQ96mwxWVib7QTNcZ8gsSAP1sisVoAPiFpzQXFSKad8erNKk0= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:51:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The Bike Shipping Thread To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: barkdog600rr@XXXXXX one additional note.... forwardair does NOT strap the bike down. they leave all the work to the human who is shipping it... so be sure that the idiot on the other end knows how to properly strap down the machine. --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Mike Moore wrote: > > > Does anyone have any experience with a company called > > Forward Air http://www.forwardair.com/ it was > > suggested to me on another board. > > I had a bike shipped from Oregon to Dulles Airport by > Forward Air -- they're > about as cheap as you can get, and they have freight > terminals at just about > every major airport. They basically strap the bike into a > crude slatted crate > atop a skid. Not the most impressive packing, but it > worked. > > The bike I shipped arrived just fine, at about $375 > cross-country for a 375 pound > bike. > > I haven't heard any FA disaster stories anywhere. > > -- Larry > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 09:31:32 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=vbEYQnpwXhQeN6LFmRX769t9wpQWkXMOtyI0Jrx1DUfdf+rla2Ss87wvRy/A3hNLZ6DXt/AV1Ip/eIxcIFG0DltxtBgeV2MfonD4LKBaSZa7SpzHNVMFkNCR8tn5jhvtc6ULAFiRNJJ/iDJq9uksLZG/2vMFwFrJjARwhzEHvAk= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 06:31:22 -0800 (PST) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Motoboys of Brazil To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's a link to an interesting article in the NYTimes about motorcycle delivery guys in Brazil. (It requires a free registration.) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/international/americas/30brazil.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 09:55:26 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 09:53:55 -0500 Tom, Nah. '86's are "silverdammit". This one is "goldIthink". ;^) Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Perry Coleman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:48:35 -0800 (PST) > >--- Perry Coleman wrote: > > > > On the other hand, there are dealerships in the area that > > I won't step foot > > in. I'd drive long distances before I would ever go back. > > Gettysburg H-D is > > probably going to end up as one of those. Assuming I ever > > decide to buy a > > Harley. Criswell did have a 2005 Concours in the > > showroom... ;^) > >are you sure it wasn't a leftover 1986? ;) > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? >http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:25:40 2004 Subject: : Paging Julian... Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:25:37 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: I had really hoped to be posting some pics of Deal's Gap for you all but my trip got postponed because I had to bartend. Got my bike back Friday. I really, really missed it. The only damage I had repaired was the front right turn signal and the front fairing. I was told that a steering clamp (?)was loose. For those interested: - new Sporttec M1 tires - new front wheel - new front brake calipers - 16,000 mile service done at 18,000 (oil changes done on time) - replaced turn signal - swapped out front fairing (I had an extra) Cost to me was $1200.00 parts and $702 labor. That is a huge chunk of change but thanks to a rainy day lesson from a friend I have been building myself a hedge for the first time in life...so while my hedge has disappeared I was able to cover this. The tires, brakes and service make a huge difference. I have been riding like a fiend and can't say enough good things about the SportTec tires. I am cornering faster and smarter than I ever was before. I won't outride my sight\stopping distance again. Thanks for all the advice and heads-up about parts online (Rob). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:31:24 2004 Subject: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. Well, the problem is still there. The sound is like rice crispies in milk. Tends to happen at speeds from 10mph to 45mph. Maybe the noise can no longer be heard at speed. It happens mainly during acceleration but I cannot reproduce the noise if the bike is still and I am revving the engine. The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 10:42:33 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:42:19 -0500 If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. Well, the problem is still there. The sound is like rice crispies in milk. Tends to happen at speeds from 10mph to 45mph. Maybe the noise can no longer be heard at speed. It happens mainly during acceleration but I cannot reproduce the noise if the bike is still and I am revving the engine. The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 11:24:21 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 11:24:25 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise At 10:31 AM 12/1/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >The noise also happens once ina while when I slow down. The noise does >not only happen on bad road\bumps so the two do not apear to be related. >If I had to guess, I would say front steering column although the noise >sometimes sounds like sparks. Experiments securing various parts of the >fairing do nothing to alleviate this. Any ideas? If it sounds like sparks, maybe it is? Check wiring for insulation problems or loose connections...you did have your front end apart recently as well as a drop of the bike. Is everything (lights, horn, engine, etc.) working properly? If so, then it probably isn't wiring, but anything is possible. Maybe a wire is just not secured well and is waving in the breeze and hitting your frame, forks or fairing? If the tech thought it was the chain, maybe it is? Given your recent ditch diving expedition, maybe something near the chain got bent and is hitting the chain as it bounces a bit? The sound could be reflecting off of your fairing or the road and appear to be coming from someplace it isn't really. Check the area around the chain for proper clearance from everything. (BTW, overtightening the chain isn't a good idea, or so I've heard. It accelerates wear rates on both the chain and the sprocket and can cause other problems. To spec is usually best.) Other than that, no guesses here... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 11:38:44 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=W2xz+efCwIxau8XukMVOicWhtgJnmkSxqXkx8QtJUi0+JWQ4ZyF9WeqsEU7gyPICUwX6JC03hRmDItDigHeCnSifxc82Wjm5DJO22jbx2uZC+ICNNtw3qYAwRyWXNTthlk3K9z0V6Y9Fhz2OJx5HtTPSHknDM052eIkOnRPNHB0= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:38:37 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sounds to me like a dry, too tight drive chain. Sure, you gain a little more responsiveness with less drive-train slop, at the cost of accelerated chain and sprocket wear. And if it's really tight, you can ruin a countershaft seal. I always adjust my chains at the upper end of the manufacturer's recommendations. Pace Horkster. :) Sounds like the shop over-tightened your chain when they R/Red the rear tire. For reasons that I find hard to fathom, shops tend to do that. As for the other noises, you've got new front calipers and pads, right? Could be the pads are just rattling a bit until they're nicely bedded in. Chain is 35mm, not point 35 mm, right? In Fred Flintstone units that's about an inch'n'three-eights. Also, pay attention to the Owner's Manual on how that's supposed to be measured. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > > Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike > back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear > what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to > the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they > tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory > recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding > my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. ... -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 12:41:36 2004 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:41:01 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: Paul Wilson Cc: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Could be a seized link in the chain, or one about to go... If you only experience it while moving, it's not the motor... ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 11:38:37 -0500 >From: Paul Wilson >Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise >To: Julian Halton >Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Sounds to me like a dry, too tight drive chain. Sure, you gain a >little more responsiveness with less drive-train slop, at the cost of >accelerated chain and sprocket wear. And if it's really tight, you >can ruin a countershaft seal. > >I always adjust my chains at the upper end of the manufacturer's >recommendations. Pace Horkster. :) Sounds like the shop >over-tightened your chain when they R/Red the rear tire. For reasons >that I find hard to fathom, shops tend to do that. As for the other >noises, you've got new front calipers and pads, right? Could be the >pads are just rattling a bit until they're nicely bedded in. > >Chain is 35mm, not point 35 mm, right? In Fred Flintstone units >that's about an inch'n'three-eights. Also, pay attention to the >Owner's Manual on how that's supposed to be measured. > > >On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 10:31:20 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: >> >> >> Here is where I hope to get some help from the experts. I got my bike >> back after the service and while it handles beautifully. I now hear >> what sounds like a creaking\crackling noise from somewhere high and to >> the front of my '02 R6. I brought it back to the shop and they >> tightened my chain to allow for .25mm of play as opposed to the factory >> recommended .35mm. The difference in pull is noticeable. After riding >> my bike, the tech said it sounded like a loose chain. ... >-- >Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org >95 VFR - 90 KLR > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 13:01:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=IoigVw74YRscTxU5zoo+kSsyiL3amY2XgZLJuLHLcEQo8v2BV8OCErIuoLNf+ktu+x+Mg/kUvFn7A9CUUbprNztntx18G5Bg18SHQ1qP8F0qE5uaFzoM3gboyaynJxKFOWOO1PUWWZydp6w0r/1oqH2TxUdV+aqqxFXSBw0bGSw= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 12:01:37 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote: > you been thrown out of school yet? I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording industry is not my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major TBD). Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC area, though . . . not too much to do out here. -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:24:40 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: circles X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.015, required 6, AWL -2.02) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:37:07 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:36:43 EST Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 14:58:21 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 14:58:19 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:06:51 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=t/d+e5fLADts0nHsSLqVNKgScXRdld4s1y9XUQ6ox3WW456JS/VTEG0EDbGOmwYEW9G32T2xwnU0qVyVf5B4PNRrdh2TS/4LoRZGk9/nogzAtpp0k1XAISSVwaHDTSWX8q5aG0svWOUrjAl9tNXqQqzJykOxlF8JqDsUsqBWfg8= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:06:43 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Skip , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: circles Leon Begeman On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500, Skip wrote: > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > --skip > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:15:07 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , , Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:14:36 -0500 I don't know where your CCT is, but that is where mine is. Front, mid part of the engine. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this summer on my '00 R6. It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, no noise. Had the CCT replaced and all is well. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner (CCT). Not sure if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still could be that though. -Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:21:20 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:21:16 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems > to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. > I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this > summer on my '00 R6. > It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At speed, > no noise. > Had the CCT replaced and all is well. I agree... Cam Chain Tensioner. If I recall, it's on the throttle side of the bike (cylinder 1?) and the actual "adjuster" is about halfway up the engine casing. Out of adjustment or not, it can cause noises in any part of the entire assembly. My FZ1 and my YZF both developed this noise around 7000 miles. I had the YZF into the shop for it and the mechanic (a friend) basically ripped the engine apart to check everything and found that it was indeed the cam chain causing the ticking. A new adjuster fixed it, but it came back a couple thousand miles later. We let it go for another few thousand and ripped the engine apart again to check all the specs and the tolerances. There was no noticeable wear marks or anything else that indicated that the tick was causing a problem. Essentially, we left it alone after that and never had any problems. My FZ1 is the same now and I know several other R1 & FZ1 owners with the same noise. None have any problems with it that we are aware of. The basic consensus seems to be "don't F' with it!". It's REAL easy to screw up majorly if you don't have it set right and it takes far more experience and tools than I have to do so... Let me put it this way: I'd rip into a set of carbs without too much concern if I had to, but I ain't about to touch a Yamaha CC adjuster! Leaving it alone at worst will cause you to replace a little spring in the tensioner if you ever get up to about 25000 miles (which they do anyway with the scheduled valve adjustment at 25k on Yamahas). Symptoms seemed the same as yours... Sounded like it was coming from the steering head or the valves at the top of the engine. Couldn't be reproduced reliably unless at speed (and even then it seemed to be very temperature dependent). My YZF had the noise around 4000 rpm and my FZ1 has it from 2500-5000 RPM. Irritating as all hell for the first week... Then you get used to it. :) --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:33:05 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:33:01 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I don't know where your CCT is, but that is where mine is. > Front, mid part of the engine. Most Yamahas should have it on the back of the engine case... A picture from an FZ1 (mine) is here: http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26373 If you want to verify it, take off the throttle side fairing and go for a spin around the block. It will probably be two or three times as loud. -- smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:42:02 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:42:00 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , It will take some getting used to if it is in fact the cct. Thanks for the great information. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 15:42:21 2004 Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 15:41:16 -0500 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: circles X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-2.009, required 6, AWL -2.01) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX thanks! --skip Paul Wilson wrote: > > Leon Begeman > > On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:23:27 -0500, Skip wrote: > > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > > > --skip > > > > > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:07:51 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=hnMPEWytoMl6sWUVSLqJBu7H05YnZTAzdl183gP8iXvnlLwT9K/c1pJap0DsKz1A5PoCnVcnYnsiyuKa8nukIn4jwhn4oRUXR9chI7FHHe2L9pvQubUuwYUyMPqAmzG+C3BEfU3APIHfcAKC7dNbwhviAfw03A0th3VeNxWlMY4= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer > wrote: > > you been thrown out of school yet? > > I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording > industry is not > my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major > TBD). ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four majors before it was all said and done. > Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC > area, though . . > . not too much to do out here. aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? ptooey. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:08:30 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mrB9eWagMEnB5UAPK+DTk8GZtDbbTqRcFKXxEXLpc2Z875u/xA+IccAWivEHw/XuW6fjENINIFfUchjrIErPbfe2+UmqSQXgxYC3bDQoAdQ/p6I/6TVrFHw1KeLztkIEe00XNesu+GSV+BPgyg6f2SI4KpAg5yusSn1gcRHi+kI= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:08:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: Julian Halton , ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX pretty sure that's where the cct would be.... --- Julian Halton wrote: > I will look into this but I cannot get over that this > seems to come from > the front upper part of my motorcycle. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:37 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange > Noise > > I second this thought. I just had my CCT replaced this > summer on my > '00 R6. > It was making a rattling noise at low speed/idle. At > speed, no noise. > Had the CCT replaced and all is well. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:43:00 AM Eastern Standard > Time, > jmcgonigle@XXXXXX writes: > > If it was a honda I'd say its your Cam Chain Tensioner > (CCT). Not sure > if the yamas have CCT issues or not. I guess it still > could be that > though. > > -Jim > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:08:32 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=cxknOFNRWDsocDKnR4gfGXoJAx5Ofr9eUH7ch2vzYf7pLpm+1US8c2DBNQxnWqnwZDHXMiODnXWoly0OfMIn0APiNyJVrJYqEAZqJrAV3O53EAdNR+6WmztJ6CI6YaR1LLp4uerMYI9jbhO2naNuKjhMCfHQnDwwZ56QX2dT+rk= ; Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:08:11 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: circles To: Skip , DC Cycles That would be me. Haven't done them in a while, probably won't now until spring. What can I help you with? Leon --- Skip wrote: > who was it that runs the "cirles" gig? > > --skip > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:10:51 2004 Subject: The winds of change Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 16:10:46 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Be careful riding today. I took a turn into the wind and had to put my foot down to keep from going over. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:16:29 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=FJMueXsLjIm6dOamkHnfBKDPKz93oHm3m+FXthNpJukHIK7bibhQyYpn6BA3Ip6+uoKyNm6h9ZBLDIOWQ0Py+/RkUNkJ2mgjPCKfHOHAlghXWTMa7VUDBjxwfSVAick0uhzE5vgamcLRCGNa2RAFGAyy7V7yo9698d2sbUXdamM= Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 15:16:23 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote: > aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? > ptooey. Only a paltry 300 miles away, but did get to ride the Gap once this year - at night, in a driving rain, at 20 mph . . . -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 16:23:14 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2004 16:22:34 -0500 I can relate. I started out in PolySci. I thought I was going to do the Pre-Law thing. I actually was going to be a lawyer and maybe get into politics. What a wanker I was... ;^) Then I took a CompSci class and that was all she wrote. Of course, back then the school I was at didn't even have a major in CompSci. I had to go through a couple of others until I found something that would work. I did end up with a Minor+ in CompSci and an almost Minor in 2 other disciplines, though. Perry >From: Tom Gimer >To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. >Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:07:39 -0800 (PST) > >--- Sean Jordan wrote: > > > On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 04:45:34 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer > > wrote: > > > you been thrown out of school yet? > > > > I should be so lucky - I've decided that the recording > > industry is not > > my bag, and I'm transferring to George Mason (new major > > TBD). > >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four >majors before it was all said and done. > > > > Defintely looking forward to getting back into the DC > > area, though . . > > . not too much to do out here. > >aern't you near asheville? and you're complaining???? >ptooey. > >-- >tg > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 1 17:25:17 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:24:31 EST Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX That is exactly where mine seemed to be coming from. I could hear it coming right up through the middle. The fairings cause it to sound louder and echo. It very hard to tell exactly where noises are coming from. I actually took a mini tape recorder and recorded the sound to play back for the mechanics. Soon as they heard it they knew what the problem was. :-) Good luck. Scooter In a message dated 12/1/2004 2:58:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: I will look into this but I cannot get over that this seems to come from the front upper part of my motorcycle. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 07:05:52 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=SkXQpJkKr/gYaUerRzTESJoDubaqKFrcwLwN0yqbbNjRuJZRUwJUyfdYq8IbiFK5ujF3XvfTZnb6STfHJ2s1NeMQ0cwkzouGRD9K2BKzmBMZ33736VH2/hNFwwg31TNlKazEf8uoH2jb8+x36LkCBlODc2FpC2I1bh2rrv+bfDw= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 04:05:33 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) Glenn --- Tom Gimer wrote: > pretty sure that's where the cct would be.... > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > I will look into this but I cannot get over that > this > > seems to come from > > the front upper part of my motorcycle. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:06:00 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:05:48 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX gimer bragged: >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had four >majors before it was all said and done. [Dave] You mean 4 majorettes? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:16:06 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=2Gbw+OBcdjLchuXuzVoP5umDm+6AQtKjKqb7KhvKSgVZK4cErHPggmz0haqG2uGPMR7XtSVk35JDbEmI3C3bUh56MMKDvQP5VBhHrYhmKPcyQEfg/RF3BF86xbqCSn14ykuPy5ker6N4hu1h/lWIo6aY48ssrWPIw5y3X9UqwTI= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: We knew this would happen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2004/janklowdamages.asp __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:32:59 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:32:54 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: We knew this would happen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What a slimy piece of shit (Janklow is). Quote: "Janklow is protected under the Federal Tort Claims Act, which shields federal workers from negligence claims for actions that happen while they are working." No time like the present to have this stricken. ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) >From: Glenn Dysart >Subject: We knew this would happen >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2004/janklowdamages.asp > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! >http://my.yahoo.com > > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 08:45:02 2004 Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 08:45:00 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) > > Glenn If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder casing for the VFR... Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet they're there (if not, I'm clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). :P --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:05:14 2004 Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2004 10:00:13 -0500 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >>I wonder where it is on the VFR??? ;-) >> >>Glenn >> >> > >If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder casing for the VFR... >Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet they're there (if not, I'm >clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). :P > >--smthng > > That was a funny, atleast for older VFR's (love them gears - nice noises). The new ones have chains on the top. I know CCT's pretty well, they were a problem/mystery on VTR's (SuperHawk 996). The thought is if you hear it, and it gets louder and louder its bad, get a new one - quick! Others had many miles on their VTR's (50k+, one 100k+) who never had issues - lots of noise but no engine/CCT failures. I have heard of other bikes with CCT issues, older Suk 1000 comes to mind, and a new (less than 500 miles) CBR1000rr CCT failure. But they weren't as wide spead of an issue. It seemed no matter what version of CCT a SHawker got it would eventually make noise. That said, APE makes a manual CCT ( must be adjusted every 10k) for most bikes. APE says they are generally for racing as the "automatic" CCT's don't hold up well under many high rev races. Many SHawkers went with the APE's, and were happy ( less noise ). Others just replaced OEM. Either way there were very few engine failures - though probaby too many for a Honda. (by very few, i mean only 1 lister over 3/4 years claimed a failure). My $0.02, IMHO - get a OEM and a service manual and RIDE ON. Good luck, Tom de '03 ST1300 - previous owner of VTR, and VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:05:25 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=jXVhqJThcy1420e1O1b5/voxDatsxj8f/ljmSF0qnJaMAf739jZKbtuSIbCoBfIFC9jHpUo3c1lQMiEPBYKffGF21kHAbXD1ps7uPnoNb/+t9Xpcw59msoCL5XvVTfL5Yy3aIFQXlfydmYzfIhNAHON7HVHn/bvGpGhGtY804gY= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Seeing how most (excpet the new weird one) have gear driven cams I would guess you would be mistaken. Why would you need a CCT when there is no chain? Glenn --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > > If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder > casing for the VFR... > Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet > they're there (if not, I'm > clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:11:09 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=D9w3plj4OK6mTPuHKDGVSSlyoSy3gI7iYHzEJ/ZfZnVVPuciBrkHNJot4N7nke8Bw7ExE7ZtCIO+bsIWTNFmZO+epp7wuPOXGExyu/kcw+zOADtUPih6SLciiR75NG5z6PpM2kqHfhWkOaRZ4bEFygjTUSgJPLOVd2SBhBrRAZE= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep, Suzsucky has had their problems too. I have a DRZ400 and Suzuki has been through three different designs and they still may not be working correctly. I've swapped out my Auto CCT for a manual one. Apearently Busa's have the same problem. Glenn --- "De Boeser, Tom" wrote: The new ones have chains on the top. I > know CCT's pretty > well, they were a problem/mystery on VTR's > (SuperHawk 996). The thought > is if you hear it, and it gets louder and louder its > bad, get a new one > - quick! Others had many miles on their VTR's > (50k+, one 100k+) who > never had issues - lots of noise but no engine/CCT > failures. I have > heard of other bikes with CCT issues, older Suk 1000 > comes to mind, and > a new (less than 500 miles) CBR1000rr CCT failure. > But they weren't as > wide spead of an issue. > It seemed no matter what version of CCT a SHawker > got it would > eventually make noise. That said, APE makes a > manual CCT ( must be > adjusted every 10k) for most bikes. APE says they > are generally for > racing as the "automatic" CCT's don't hold up well > under many high rev > races. Many SHawkers went with the APE's, and were > happy ( less noise > ). Others just replaced OEM. Either way there were > very few engine > failures - though probaby too many for a Honda. (by > very few, i mean > only 1 lister over 3/4 years claimed a failure). > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:19:56 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=LVt2v6Oy+3lwvQ+gZ6U7DtpPI3acbcuYcuVL5/XcoYv81nIUuZ3X1EALgLz51kSuEr4T7Geu48IsBztReAdyuR/n72tfKLcRVHGv/NJJoK2uizG2CWoddz5tJy2vHwHKKPAG9FS2nQrPXkAw2y5WXD5gWz9MtoCY9tk7YX612BQ= Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:19:49 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise Indeed. The VFR's gear drive was gotta be the most stone cold reliable valve train drive on a motorcycle, even if it's a tad heavy. Well, maybe equivalent to push rods. Makes taking the cams off to adjust clearances a snap too. Thank goodness I don't have a CCT on every cylinder. The KLR has two, btw. One for the valves and one for the balancer. Maybe Jonathan can come by and help me synch the carbs on the KLR and then we can change the blinker fluid while we're at it..... ;-) On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:05:22 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart wrote: > Seeing how most (excpet the new weird one) have gear > driven cams I would guess you would be mistaken. Why > would you need a CCT when there is no chain? > > Glenn > > --- "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > > > > > If I'm not mistaken, you have one on EACH cylinder > > casing for the VFR... > > Hella smaller than the Yama ones, but I'd bet > > they're there (if not, I'm > > clueless or you have some "magic" I'm not aware of). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:38:26 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 09:56:59 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise On Thu, 2 Dec 2004, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Yep, Suzsucky has had their problems too. I have a > DRZ400 and Suzuki has been through three different > designs and they still may not be working correctly. > I've swapped out my Auto CCT for a manual one. > Apearently Busa's have the same problem. Suzuki had a recall on the early (99s) Hayabusa for CCT. Once swapped with the latest/greatest, all is well. Guys who swapped to a manual CCT have nothing but problems on the 1300s. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 09:42:01 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=xi/3L3rjFWIIVqNF/U2SjR2lONjsAVlp9TX6WRuIisnqxoSAekNiWckglfRHUXe6UdIs8FJMGBqfVhOqlzPELdRqkssnPQVkaxWF1/tx+iIFnf4Ojs6PalyFEfEN6KKB+Oenekfo5yFMulnQOE2k0lzARl9xtfB7l69IeFUivZs= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ramblings on Harleys, etc. To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > gimer bragged: > >ah, yes.... the "major" predicament. i believe i had > four > >majors before it was all said and done. > > [Dave] You mean 4 majorettes? i preferred cheerleaders because they put out more. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 10:07:34 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=Pn9eAAq+eef9+43lkCvYZKRKW6mvohrsH4+0ZjIOqvuZb9jXJfrVsP86FDLcssFNhJjIf9ZoFACJLmW0r85j+YfNTns2pcSN4PhbuSMvYrXgazbM2OCs/6fVbSYy1r2sKUet2vR0HLXFtnq+8ZTcDb8dkDJ/Oc6aoq4sgz6ksJE= ; Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 07:07:27 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Interesting, completely opposite of what people are experiencing on the DRZ's. One of the first mods recommended for 03 and below DRZ's is a Manual CCT. Glenn --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > Suzuki had a recall on the early (99s) Hayabusa for > CCT. Once swapped > with the latest/greatest, all is well. Guys who > swapped to a manual CCT > have nothing but problems on the 1300s. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 2 22:30:02 2004 Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 22:29:44 -0500 Subject: CCT From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20040701 (2.0) at filter01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net I really enjoy it when you folks get to bragging about all this high tech stuff and get into a thread like this one. My low tech machine just crossed the 100k mile threshold and I haven't needed to adjust the valves for about 40k miles. I check 'em about every 10k or so. Lash seems to have have stabilized at about 30k and have only needed a couple very slight tweeks since. Even when they do need an adjustment the job takes about 15 min. and one beer. And I'm still on the original valve cover gaskets. I'd rather ride 'em than fix 'em. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 01:50:46 2004 From: Daniel To: "Julian Halton" Cc: Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise R6 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 01:50:26 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- I would guess the cam chain as well...but i have a couple of good old fashion diagnostic techniques to check. If you can, turn the bike off and have a friend roll it in nuetral. See if you can duplicate the noise sans engine. This will also give you more of an "outside looking in" perspective. So you can get closer to the suspected areas, and free you up to investigate. You would investigate your bike more thoroughly than a non riding friend would, most likely. As suggested, I would check the chain, and front brake pads for the noise, and also in the wheels since they rotate.. Another thing to try, with the engine running, is to take a hose place one end to your ear, and the other end ot the cam chain area and see if you hear the sound amplified. basicly use the hose as a stethescope, or use an actual automotive stethescope. I once had a front rotor bolt come loose, heard the clicking noise, rolled the bike with the engine off, found it. Keep in mind we are trusting our lives to the bikes we ride, it's very important that you have that noise identified positively. You really don't want a bad link in your chain. If a chain brakes it could lock up the rear wheel and high side you into on coming traffic with a very high probability of death for oneself, and accidents and injuries to others. I've had it happen at load speed, (not the on coming traffic part) and it was not pleasant. So only "get used to it" after it's been properly assessed as something non risky. Identify the noise, your health depends on it. After trying to diagnose it yourself, Whatever it costs to positively identify is worth it.. It's always better to spend some money than it is to potentially subject yourself to pain. And one more note, It's also a good idea to find an owners forum like an r6 message board in your case, post the question there, and look up other posts with the same problem and see the solutions. good luck! Hope you can find it quick/easy/soon yourself. :) - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 08:11:59 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=JB3rFyHRQtIsVkfO0KXlbUXkUKXeGsJPwV3kk3UGyAAO/jc8cLJAs+CUaPfVntys6TaZHA4Q9uxCkIWcvWXcX5irKu+y/8kMdcgurk/jlej0GLh83/Ztv4hBM8pHP00GYROr1A503GN/087Dd7/bUVBD7S+xPtjfsJ2GuWM1EW8= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 05:11:54 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Great shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX BTW, this thing is 29 pages deep and rather funny. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673824&page=1&pp=25 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 09:11:18 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:11:06 EST Subject: Re: Great shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX ROTFLMAO I could only make it to the 4th page before I had to stop. I was starting to laugh too hard and gathering looks from passing co-workers. Will have to pick this up at home later this evening. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 8:12:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, glenn_dysart@XXXXXX writes: BTW, this thing is 29 pages deep and rather funny. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=673824&page=1&pp=25 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 10:58:24 2004 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Great shots Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:57:11 -0500 I haven't gone through the whole thing, but I did wonder about trying to get a Russell custom seat for her. Can you imagine the look on their face when the order came in? ;^) Perry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:27:03 2004 Subject: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:27:01 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? I told them I would hold off and think about it. As I am looking at my bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old tire. Leaking tire, hole was too big to patch..must of got this last night. Cost to me 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a reminder. If I had to guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge at night and I probably picked up my present there. The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on bike...it is not the cam chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not to worry about it. I am going to do some more research though. ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this hobby! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:33:30 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=mUT6F7zDkVmo6hEqX8EjHvrCCLZ1yANSWv4JyTHQys1WvLsd/0xtRP6veinNDMOYJnrLa70KfuTbj+Lpap+c3TwZgFYVU/YGvTMCXLp4Zy48BPSbqFpBPhQ/tc6x+6Tf8iNUA0MfQ1DKeI0tZaphp9SKWwjamX7dFfnesG8/pvA= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:33:24 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX You just seem to have some very bad luck. I don't spend near the money you do on BOTH of my bikes. Glenn --- Julian Halton wrote: > Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two > things: the NOISE!!!! > And to get frame sliders put on. > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year > bike require 2'' inch > holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > Questions: Does this > reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the > fairings? > > I told them I would hold off and think about it. As > I am looking at my > bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old > tire. Leaking tire, > hole was too big to patch..must of got this last > night. Cost to me > 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a > reminder. If I had to > guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge at > night and I > probably picked up my present there. > > The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on > bike...it is not the cam > chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not to > worry about it. I > am going to do some more research though. > > ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this > hobby! > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 11:41:02 2004 Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 11:39:32 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Motorcycle problem help question- Strange Noise R6 At 01:50 AM 12/3/04 -0500, Daniel wrote: >Another thing to try, with the engine running, is to take a hose >place one end to your ear, and the other end ot the cam chain area >and see if you hear the sound amplified. basicly use the hose as a >stethescope, or use an actual automotive stethescope. A large screwdriver works well for this too. Put the handle against your ear, and the blade on whatever part you want to listen too. If the engine is running, and you have long hair, be *really* careful about this!! Particularly on cars (bikes have fewer exposed rotating bits when not in gear). -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:14:20 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=kWV9kJlh/AMxWUdhtfkzc24Rb8Ct8MnZhs869wOA7HEjp1gmnb/ED7koKBA9Y/lnUfQTKhP2+9tuqjqaA5hAVAGY4D7iMfnoGauEqHIiRQhZ5QH1YAcRmpwL8ehc+++exPTh07uf3ze1h73nY4WB/o8h31Oo7EzeCZmAZU/Jv70= ; Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:14:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hey us city riders have to put up with ALOT (-; Nails, taxi drivers, ice, cops, stupid low speed limits! Do we need to set up a DC-Cycles Julian Bike Fund? --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > You just seem to have some very bad luck. I don't > spend near the money you do on BOTH of my bikes. > > Glenn > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two > > things: the NOISE!!!! > > And to get frame sliders put on. > > > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year > > bike require 2'' inch > > holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > > Questions: Does this > > reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the > > fairings? > > > > I told them I would hold off and think about it. > As > > I am looking at my > > bike, I notice a piece of metal in my 1 WEEK old > > tire. Leaking tire, > > hole was too big to patch..must of got this last > > night. Cost to me > > 140.00 I am taping the nail to my monitor as a > > reminder. If I had to > > guess, there was construction on the Chain bridge > at > > night and I > > probably picked up my present there. > > > > The noise, took my tank off, ran engine, at on > > bike...it is not the cam > > chain tensioner. A mechanic I trust told me not > to > > worry about it. I > > am going to do some more research though. > > > > ...I am going to need a THIRD job to pay for this > > hobby! > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. > Learn more. > http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:38:25 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:38:09 EST Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have a set of Street Frame Sliders from Intuit on my '00 R6. They go in place of existing bolts and don't require any fairing modification. They look like they were original parts to the bike. I can't find their website and not sure if they're still around. Maybe Roach could help you out. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 11:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 12:47:30 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:47:17 EST Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Found'em. _http://inturace.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page10.html_ (http://inturace.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page10.html) As long as you're not planning to hit the track, I think these will work for you. I've never "road-tested" mine but, I feel better that they're on. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 12:38:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX writes: I have a set of Street Frame Sliders from Intuit on my '00 R6. They go in place of existing bolts and don't require any fairing modification. They look like they were original parts to the bike. I can't find their website and not sure if they're still around. Maybe Roach could help you out. Scooter In a message dated 12/3/2004 11:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: Took my lovely little '02 R6 into the shop for two things: the NOISE!!!! And to get frame sliders put on. Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it weaken the fairings? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:07:29 2004 Subject: RE: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:07:26 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require > 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it > weaken the fairings? The FJR's have the same issue... There's a $40 set that requires drilling of the fairing and there's a $140 set that doesn't. A LOT of people go for the expensive set. I doubt it would technically lower the resale value (I wouldn't consider that to be "damage"), but *I* wouldn't buy it with a drilled fairing if I had the option not to. --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:15:23 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=l1rJvY8a+03ORR5rSJcnm9Qb4LpKLKKLYTBhqNcLdduQxkpQw1KRVTFdGtXC4yB6q+KH+INSKGJof7WwVnDH13EU5sW4hGThDKAh7Nssyi4PdFt91YZsduileu5RpYr9Er7NwdjmDqluUNcMosyg9sLNWrpA1iaCw7y5X2bYJvc= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:15:12 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... I got the R&G sliders for the VFR. http://home.earthlink.net/~dchondarider/vfr/bobbins.htm They require drilling a 1" diameter hole. I did so because the middle fairings were not pristine and I got them mainly to protect the uppers, which I had to replace in mid-2003. On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:07:26 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > > Was informed that frame sliders on my model\year bike require > > 2'' inch holes to be cut into the fairing on each side. > > Questions: Does this reduce re-sale value of bike? Does it > > weaken the fairings? > > The FJR's have the same issue... There's a $40 set that requires > drilling of the fairing and there's a $140 set that doesn't. A LOT of > people go for the expensive set. > > I doubt it would technically lower the resale value (I wouldn't consider > that to be "damage"), but *I* wouldn't buy it with a drilled fairing if > I had the option not to. > > --smthng > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 3 15:21:42 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=jHqhN0WYhlATig5/C8IsdR9j3w+avTYCtCH7c6TgtGnc7MorkciErJ84ZU+ybt2lPGECiaa/KqD2fEnGIevJhSgMyCCvbiFgsxkUH3nwVO8tGWySC2SJRcsBP8blsn3J+96jh4gdHTdM/BXka+s3XT5Q5DwiHwWBVBrZDdV3sBc= Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:21:35 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: NVCC Rider Training Open House 12/14/04 Some DC-Cyclers might be interested in this. BTW, I understand registration has already begun for the 2005 training season. Yours truly might even put in an appearance; see keywords "refreshments will be served." A side note: DC DMV is now accepting Maryland and Virginia MSF completion cards in lieu of a riding test. --------------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION: ALL PROSPECTIVE MOTORCYCLE STUDENTS, MOTORCYCLE DEALER REPRESENTATIVES & RIDERCOACHES You are invited to an OPEN HOUSE "Promoting Motorcycle Rider Training" Hosted by the Office of Continuing Education & Workforce Development (CEWD) Tuesday, December 14 5:00-7:00 pm Engineering Building, Room 213 3001 N. Beauregard Street, Alexandria, VA 22311 REFRESHMENTS WILL BE SERVED! Learn more about Motorcycle Training and other CEWD programs, register for classes, meet instructors, staff, and industry partners, ask questions and much more!! Registration for the first weekend class (March 11-13, 2005) will ONLY be available at THIS OPEN HOUSE! **In addition one lucky student (drawing held this evening) will have a spot in an available class of their choice (except the first weekend) paid for by CEWD!! Don't miss this Open House. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 4 01:54:12 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" Cc: Subject: Re: Why? Noise, Nails, ... Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2004 01:53:47 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- It shouldn't lower the resale value so long as you include the frame sliders when you sell the bike. Frame sliders are a plus. I would buy fairings with the hole already cut, it would save me work. So long as the hole is cut neatly in the right spot. I say install the frame sliders and forget about it. - Danny From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 10:58:33 2004 Subject: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: , , Hey all... I'm cross posting this one because I know that each group has different opinions on this and I'd like them all (and partially to see if my local list is still alive)... :P I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found any they like and trust? And for the Seca guys... I know that the Seca uses some weird sizes. Does anyone know off the top of their heads what the sizes are? I seem to recall that there's only one size that fits the stock rim on the front, but there are two that work on the rear. My local stealer has a stack of "weird size" tires that they'd probably pay me to take and I'd like to run in at lunch and see if they have one that fits. I imagine that rear is in the stack because I don't think it fits anything other than the Seca and one or two years from the YZF 600. Thanks all. --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 11:10:16 2004 From: To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , , , Subject: Re: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:09:59 -0500 > > From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" > Date: 2004/12/06 Mon AM 10:58:29 EST > To: , , > > Subject: Need tires > > Hey all... I'm cross posting this one because I know that each group > has different opinions on this and I'd like them all (and partially to > see if my local list is still alive)... :P > > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > any they like and trust? > > And for the Seca guys... I know that the Seca uses some weird sizes. > Does anyone know off the top of their heads what the sizes are? I seem > to recall that there's only one size that fits the stock rim on the > front, but there are two that work on the rear. My local stealer has a > stack of "weird size" tires that they'd probably pay me to take and I'd > like to run in at lunch and see if they have one that fits. I imagine > that rear is in the stack because I don't think it fits anything other > than the Seca and one or two years from the YZF 600. > > Thanks all. > > --smthng > > I've had real good service and great prices from: http://www.swmototires.com/ hth, -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 12:29:43 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=dDYGDo5QYsi1UeWoqVBvejehwGyo8Sm4tygnCjA0OtFr/4QpQ+V2o8SJ9Poc5GMnQwYuHILOVqUrPvSEXYLFHjqhDDPB8V3pQYVItTqz9Lm6B5f1uu98kkCoulSFhKpA2BSBElopfZL7NWcchDVhZEIUO7aRRGLWlU1yQ7SUwB4= Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 11:29:32 -0600 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Need tires On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > any they like and trust? Call 1-800-888-3084 and ask for Chip - tell him Sean Jordan from the WERA BBS sent you. They've always done very well by me. http://www.ronayers.com/main.cfm -- Sean Jordan Shoot to Thrill Photography From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 6 13:43:59 2004 From: To: Sean Jordan , Subject: Re: Re: Need tires Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 13:43:51 -0500 > > From: Sean Jordan > Date: 2004/12/06 Mon PM 12:29:32 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Need tires > > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:58:29 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes > > I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for > > a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found > > any they like and trust? > > Call 1-800-888-3084 and ask for Chip - tell him Sean Jordan from the > WERA BBS sent you. They've always done very well by me. > > http://www.ronayers.com/main.cfm > > -- > Sean Jordan > Shoot to Thrill Photography > ..there's still BBS's out there? Whoa...cool. Let me dig around for my 1200 baud modem. ;-) -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 08:04:00 2004 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Cc: "'jkalmes@XXXXXX'" Subject: Need tires Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:07:42 -0500 Jonathan W. Kalmes sed, "I need to replace the treads on three different bikes and am looking for a good online source that carries tires in multiple sizes. Anyone found any they like and trust?" I agree with the others: Ron Ayers is great but has a limited selection. SW moto has been great but several SabMag members reported that the manager gets goofy and insulting. This started when someone reported that the drop-shipper sent an out-of-round tire. Check out prices at the local shops during "Open Houses". Often they include free mounting off the bike. Personally, I have found Chaparral's ad in "Motorcycle" "Motorcycling?" to have the best all around prices (bettah than their on-line prices). You can beat Chaparral's prices by a buck by calling D-Kirk with the issue and page number in hand --or -- give the two bucks to Chaparral for posting the most competitive prices. Carl in Bethesda Commuting into your nation's capital since 1981 through sun, rain, over snow, and around road ragers. '85 VF700S (Rocinito); '83 VF700F (666); '96 ST1100 (Stumped for a name) '97 Aerostich Roadcrafter (Fred the Red); '02 JR Phoenix: (Amarillo Joe) Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters: http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 09:11:40 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=F5q1KW+O0ZSGgToyQePUYhwcNeCXdT4SHM0FvxCMRru9vnSmLgSN+1iHjGVT0gBCSdvgku7rSBup8GU03S0S1kpwnwBhVkfS2XxC/XZ8lz4Ga4+3mJEQB0I2UqUJU25qS6VvW/ik0qLDFDCth/pbIHs+4N0MnIfPrCZfHkouMw0= ; Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 06:11:30 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Need tires To: "Custer, Carl" , "'DCCycles'" Funny you should mention that. My last experience with SW moto reminded me of the "Seinfeld" episode with the Soup Nazi. Everyone on the net apparantly loves their services and prices so I thought I'd give it a try. So i bought tires from them and I emailed them afterwards about the ship/arrival date because my track day was coming up very very soon. My response from them was similar to "No soup for you" like the Soup Nazi! Well, I did get my tires but, I didn't need to be treated like a (paying) moron. Would I use again? Probably, because i think they have one of the best prices on the net, though Parts411.com has the best prices on the net but they take forever to arrive. Ryan > SW moto has been great but several SabMag members > reported that the manager > gets goofy and insulting. This started when someone > reported that the > drop-shipper sent an out-of-round tire. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 10:55:32 2004 Subject: Dirt bike riding ?? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:55:29 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DCCycles" Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great way to increase your skill level on a road bike? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:10:12 2004 Subject: RE: Dirt bike riding ?? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:10:09 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "Julian Halton" , "DCCycles" > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent > and ride dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen > by some as a great way to increase your skill level on a road bike? In short... You can push beyond your limits on dirt (and find out what your limits are in the first place), because it's generally not fatal if you F' up. :) --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:13:41 2004 Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:13:38 -0500 From: stephen@XXXXXX To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Sent-Via: Mitel Networks SME Server There's not a lot in the area. Here's a better venue to ask this question: dcoffroad@XXXXXX Stephen Quoting Julian Halton : > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 11:47:09 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=tDQzXo9g2ReDPN5F3tDt2xc3nXW1uz4KxjPravX0nZ0p/OGOlDn8YchBJCmvg5v3EtAmsV2ITaLC1vl/WTcWpcY8tJW61U+fSV2GChKu/W3aBr8lLqTvjqkjTz/e9nHlJfo5RZyOEUvle8vO2+Ak7mXIh/SLrgdjYarztB6hhDg= ; Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Depends what you consider "this area". The GW forest just west of us (1-2 hours) has hundreds of miles of trails, forest roads, etc. There are also many places in PA to go to. Glenn --- stephen@XXXXXX wrote: > There's not a lot in the area. Here's a better venue > to ask this question: > > dcoffroad@XXXXXX > > Stephen > > > Quoting Julian Halton : > > > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you > can rent and ride > > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is > seen by some as a great > > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:27:49 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 12:27:08 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? At 10:55 AM 12/7/04 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > >Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride >dirt bikes? Nope, sorry. I vaguely remember someone posting here about a commercial place to ride in NoVa, but I don't think they rented bikes and I don't recall exactly where it was. >Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great >way to increase your skill level on a road bike? I don't ride a sport bike, but I've found that what I learned on my first bike (Yamaha XT-550 enduro (street-legal dirt bike if that term isn't used anymore)) carries over pretty well to the big cruiser I ride today. Based on my experience starting out with an enduro off road: 1. You don't panic at traction loss, but have developed reactions to handle it. A little fishtailing, such as when hard stopping with too much rear brake, or exiting White's Ferry on a wet steel ramp, is almost fun. 2. You develop good throttle control and clutch use. Besides frequent starting out on steep slopes, you also have a fair bit of bouncing around, and if you can't learn to isolate your hand motion from your arm and body motion, and know where the "friction zone" is for your clutch, you will have major problems. This is less true on the street, so you aren't always forced to learn about it to the same extent. Even more, if you treat the handle bars as a grab rail rather than a control you will crash a lot...so you learn not to do that, which is a Good Thing (tm). 3. Due to the widely varying traction levels off road you learn to feel traction through the bike pretty well. You can often feel when you are reaching the limits, before you lose them fully, and make adjustments. 4. You can't really ride very well at all on trails if you don't become a part of the bike...feel what it's doing, and react to it without having to think about it. It has to become an extension of you. On the street this is a very good thing to do, but it's not quite as critical to being able to ride at all like it is when the ground isn't flat, smooth or of consistent surface. 5. You learn to watch the area you are about to ride through pretty closely...without losing track of the area farther ahead too. I.e. you have to watch your route and plan ahead, but you also have to watch out for holes, ruts, branches or trees, small animals, and other things that can drop you in the dirt. It's not quite as critical most of the time on the street, but when it is, it's *really* critical, so it's a good thing to learn to do and make into a habit. There may be more, but that's what comes to mind right away. BTW, there are some things that riding off road won't really teach you much about. High speed cornering and "looking through the turn" for instance. Most of it is at relatively low speeds...unless you take up motocross or something. The bikes also feel very different from a street bike...they are usually light and with high CGs and very soft suspensions...at least in the initial part of the suspension travel. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:34:36 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=i7fRrSCTLaWEuDOjvLaYq5D2iGxPdkarR3tsLZSYbNk4oZ3YmrkS2isxXNx1rtn7rS3bth3x5i7iFHgSD+KbI5ku05uZT5pC6yKkXpAtDLSALz6EWKjPFj8gdEFWLbY2CMlzLnOcP9NBrCVKgSRkE0BxENXxvOVK/bdQNCNBN1M= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? Cc: DCCycles A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two day camp, everything provided. I've been thinking about it. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:55:29 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > > > Does anyone know of a place in this area where you can rent and ride > dirt bikes? Care to comment why riding these is seen by some as a great > way to increase your skill level on a road bike? > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 12:46:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ZE4gVKgkUzzb8otutIQbuOnvIRjrN4DirBHU4LcC0/+Y+omfApEIuxJABuxtQ3RmZKGetjI1ONj5O88TWeN8WcZzET3oZM1gwRZKbxH0rZv2QMLiz5+mWzuZen+ekR9fRwJW9VxB0G6KsMRHsGd+OIAcDRI1pj6/xGCvKKxD4Jo= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:46:31 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 13:04:38 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:04:25 EST Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) Scooter In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:06:30 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500 From: skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.831, required 6, AWL -1.83) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. --skip ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > Scooter > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:34:29 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > A bit pricey, but there's American SuperCamp, offered at the (I think) > > Delaware State Fairgrounds in Harrington. $600 for a two-day camp, > > everything provided. I've been thinking about it. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:11:39 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=JXipeiy5J1DpHWoJ1xRQW51bnb7qhbeHxnmd5FHhNmTKCafpugoW6ySIfNKRRXRH+LmF1X502ciMQteXnyS5gdb+1QPR7YG7X6O2J2PVksdDko4K81cGpEE0hoKwpZOd1MpH2OHHIQ6xqyBHlqH0uKk3JAjxHs6ScWbeGL8Qh3I= Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:11:19 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: skip Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The Delaware dates are April 15-16. May 15-16 is in San Bernardino, Calif., rideable for sure, but may require a few days off, unless your name is Leon. :) On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500, skip wrote: > If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 > looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. > > > > > --skip > > > > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > > > Scooter > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 15:13:35 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:14:12 -0500 From: skip To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dirt bike riding ?? X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-1.828, required 6, AWL -1.83) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX doh. yeah. *4* 15 and *4* 16.... :~) Paul Wilson wrote: > > The Delaware dates are April 15-16. May 15-16 is in San Bernardino, > Calif., rideable for sure, but may require a few days off, unless your > name is Leon. :) > > On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:07:12 -0500, skip wrote: > > If I can figure out how to come up with $600, I'm doing this. 5/15-16 > > looks perfect. Deleware isn't that far away. > > > > > > > > > > --skip > > > > > > > > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > > Hmmmmmm.......that actually looks like it might be fun. I've never ridden a > > > dirt bike before and was thinking about something like this to get more > > > riding experience. Let me know if you decide to do it. I might join you. :-) > > > > > > Scooter > > > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2004 12:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > > dcmcrider@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > URL- http://www.americansupercamp.com > > > > > > I might be interested in the "non-racer" camp on April 15-16. > > > > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 16:15:26 2004 Subject: Not quite wintering a bike Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 16:15:23 -0500 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: "DCCycles" Hey all, Quick question... I have an FZ1 that I'm probably not going to be able to sell until Spring rolls around. While I will be riding it a little bit every two weeks or so just to make sure it's not "sitting", I doubt I'll go through a full tank of gas any time soon. Sooooo.... Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? As I burn maybe an eighth of a tank of gas on a quick trip, should I top it up again before I park it just to lessen the chance of any moisture in the tank? Thanks. --smthng http://spaces.msn.com/members/smthng/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 7 17:37:35 2004 Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 17:37:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike At 04:15 PM 12/7/04 -0500, Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >to sell until Spring rolls around. While I will be riding it a little >bit every two weeks or so just to make sure it's not "sitting", I doubt >As I burn maybe an eighth of a tank of gas on a quick trip, should I top >it up again before I park it just to lessen the chance of any moisture >in the tank? 1/8 tank every 2 weeks? That's a full tank in 3 months...and you won't run it all the way dry even if you don't do the top-up after every ride thing...say fill up half way through? That means the gas will only be in there unmolested by fresh gas for at most a month and a half? I wouldn't worry about stabilizer...especially if you top up every ride or two. I do try to keep my tank full in the fall and spring though...when it's shifting between warm and cold on a daily basis. Condensation is worst when there's moisture in the air (warm air) and a cold tank. Happy to hear of others' experiences, but I rode every week or two all winter last year as you are suggesting, topped up before each ride, and had a period of as long as three weeks with the bike parked in the garage (snow days and icy roads) and had no problems with gas or water. Some rides were short (20-30 miles) and some were longer, but most were in the 50-80 mile range, so they weren't draining the tank every time. Heck, I didn't even use stabilizer in the lawnmower, and it started ok. Got used into November last year, and again about March or so I think, so it sat for at least 4 months with no harm done. Only time I've had problems with carbs gumming up was the XT-550 which sat for a couple of years without getting used once I got the Honda Saber....but even it started up with a few kicks, though it wasn't running happily at all without cleaning. On the other hand, bike maintenance is expensive, and Stabil is cheap...better safe than sorry? -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 07:12:28 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:07:13 -0500 From: "De Boeser, Tom" To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: >Hey all, >Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? > > > Sure, can't hurt. Plus its there just in case it actually sits for 2 months or more - you never know. >Thanks. > >--smthng > > Tom de '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:07:56 2004 From: daniel.dc@XXXXXX To: "De Boeser, Tom" Cc: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:07:39 -0500 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- gas has a shelf life of what 6 months? Also indoor storage would be better, less condensation? - Danny On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 08:07:13 -0500, you wrote: >Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > >>Hey all, >>Should I add some fuel stabilizer to it? >> >> >> >Sure, can't hurt. Plus its there just in case it actually sits for 2 >months or more - you never know. > >>Thanks. >> >>--smthng >> >> >Tom de '03 ST1300 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:14:03 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ddVQ8QsLjXuRZI53fXOeGyqlYkuY3f2QZ3Xo4IZGhAhNDvspzMRt7meLI687qw/rV/2mPLQFqiKriuRqhNkcM/0PLY3qnNtyx2W7bGaLF4I1DmD1cN/c5hOvTHX6zdeciHnbtazQB0PwroB0/JQ2iNyiZzCHbFtXcZI92zo/jj8= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:13:53 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: "De Boeser, Tom" Subject: Re: Not quite wintering a bike Cc: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" , DC-CYCLES A few weeks back, there was a very useful contribution on this seasonal and perennial topic on the VFR list. Posted by a retired chemist who worked in the petroleum industry. --------------------------------------------- With all this talk of "winterizing", it is easy to propagate misleading or false information. So here is a very brief statement of the key issues. All gasolines are very complex mixtures of hundreds of hydrocarbon components (plus oxygenates these days), and plus a mix of additves to allow the fuel to meet all specifications. Most of the hydrocarbons are very stable when stored, but certain hydrocarbons, particularly the chemically unsaturated ones like olefins and certain others, like to react with each other to form polymers. These polymers are the "gummy" material that you find in old gas cans or in plugged up carbs or injectors. All gasolines sold legally (at least here in the USA) must have enough additives to slow down this formation of gums during the expected lifetime of that gasoline. There is a lab test which via heat and air accelerates this gum formation, and passing the lab test means the gasloine meets the stability specification. But it doesn't prevent gums, it only slows it down, so long term storage may require additional stabilizer, like the red StaBil that we can buy in most stores that sell that sort of thing. A couple of things accelerate gum formation, besides heat. Air and a low fuel/surface area ratio. Those are the main reasons that a full tank is better than an almost empty tank. Plus, excluding air also excludes moisture. However, in small places, like carb bowls, carb passages, or F.I. passages, there is a relatively LOW fuel/surface area ratio, which gives proportionally more sites for initiating polymerization. That's the greatest value of StaBil, preventing gum formation inside the small passages, and that is why running the engine after addition of the stabilizer is so important. However, forgetting about stabilizer and riding at least monthly will do an even better job!! Regarding hard starting after storage. That has nothing to do with the chemical stability of the fuel. Even without any stabilizer, the composition of the bulk of the fuel will change very little, and the octane will remain virtually the same. However, a couple of things may happen. During the fall and winter, gasoline has more butane added to increase the vapor pressure. This is to allow your car or motorcycle to start on a cold morning. Without the butane, there would not be enough vaporization of the gasoline. So, in storage, much of the butane can evaporate off, making starting in the springtime very difficult. If that is happening you would notice a lower fuel level in the springtime. Spraying some starter fluid into the intake system can overcome this. Or, your spark plugs simply may have become fouled during several months of storage. If I ever winterized a motorcycle (never had to), in the springtime I would remove all spark plugs and either clean them and expose bare metal on the electrodes, or replace them, before I tried to start the engine. I'd be happy to try and answer any additional concerns. Mike G in Houston 1994 VFR 750 http://www.pbase.com/txmike45/vfr750 -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:39:11 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500 To: "dc Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran over something." The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth $85,000. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:47:12 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Troutman'" , "'dc Cycles'" Subject: RE: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:47:02 -0500 They did NOT arrest him? WTF? -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] To: dc Cycles Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran over something." The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth $85,000. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 10:48:39 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:48:44 -0500 From: skip To: Troutman CC: dc Cycles Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood X-Tasam-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Tasam-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Tasam-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-0.245, required 6, AWL -3.34, NO_DNS_FOR_FROM 1.10, URIBL_OB_SURBL 2.00) X-MailScanner-From: skip@XXXXXX I know we're invisible, but geez! Troutman wrote: > > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 11:46:51 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=g6XIuSD+B2r7oi+wejkQ+0uuJ9XdcDYFk+C2fzc54bUpHXx2vwZrb6VoJyKu+fXgdercuPys0yWBkvKd4z1z3Bl/s3SzP4OcruoHIOe4yIqBtLRoPds0nY5DAkUguKw3ZbKjB2NwI/nWO/+WCxPnxCExD0ZuEATrgy0SGdvJAlY= ; Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:46:20 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: "'dc Cycles'" An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Jim McGonigle wrote: >They did NOT arrest him? WTF? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:39 AM >To: dc Cycles >Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > > >http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > >Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > >BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed into a >motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the screaming man rolled >onto the hood of the car. > >Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing the >motorcyclist on the hood of his car. >"He didn't know what he hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I >said, 'Debris? But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to >stop,'" said witness Thomas Thibert. > >"I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. "If I saw >a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply thought I ran >over something." > >The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near State Road >7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas managed to get >up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license plate number. > >Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He chased >him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol troopers and >Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > >Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > >Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. >Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was worth >$85,000. > > >___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:14:42 2004 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Troutman , "dc Cycles" Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:19:27 -0500 I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. I can't believe they didn't arrent him, I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure running over someone and then leaving the scene of the accident is illegal. Regards, Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500, Troutman wrote > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed > into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the > screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. > > Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing > the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he > hit. He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? > But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" > said witness Thomas Thibert. > > "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. > "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I > simply thought I ran over something." > > The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near > State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, > Buelvas managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's > license plate number. > > Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He > chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol > troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > > Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > > Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. > Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was > worth $85,000. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:20:24 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:19:45 EST Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: kajotaene@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Probably a custom job since his is the Owner of Gangster Cycles. Who knows. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 11:47:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, kajotaene@XXXXXX writes: An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Jim McGonigle wrote: >They did NOT arrest him? WTF? > >-----Original Message----- >From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] >Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:39 AM >To: dc Cycles >Subject: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > > >http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > >Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:20:45 2004 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Rob Sharp'" , "'Troutman'" , "'dc Cycles'" Subject: RE: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:20:34 -0500 Nah, you can't hit motorcyclist and it doesn't account. Remember the pecking order - old drivers - suv drivers - luxury car drivers - other cars - pedestrians - dogs - cats - flower beds - rare bugs - bike riders - motorcyclist They only arrest you if you hit a dog or higher. ;) -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] To: Troutman; dc Cycles Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. I can't believe they didn't arrent him, I am not a lawyer but I am pretty sure running over someone and then leaving the scene of the accident is illegal. Regards, Rob On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 10:39:07 -0500, Troutman wrote > http://www.local10.com/news/3980812/detail.html > > Witness: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood > > BROWARD COUNTY, Fla. -- A witness said a South Florida driver plowed > into a motorcyclist Tuesday night and kept going, even as the > screaming man rolled onto the hood of the car. > > Scott Eisenberg was incredulous when told a witness reported seeing > the motorcyclist on the hood of his car. "He didn't know what he hit. > He said 'I didn't know. I hit some debris.' I said, 'Debris? > But the guy was on your hood yelling at (your) windshield to stop,'" > said witness Thomas Thibert. > > "I didn't see a guy on my hood," said the driver, Scott Eisenberg. > "If I saw a guy on my hood I would have stopped right there. I simply > thought I ran over something." > > The motorcyclist, Marlowe Buelvas, was driving west on I-595 near > State Road 7 when he said Eisenberg hit him. After the impact, Buelvas > managed to get up off the ground and write down Eisenberg's license > plate number. > > Thibert stopped to help Buelvas, then took off after Eisenberg. He > chased him 20 miles to Pompano Beach where Florida Highway Patrol > troopers and Broward Sheriff's Office deputies intercepted him. > > Investigators questioned Eisenberg, but did not arrest him. > > Buelvas was not injured, but his motorcycle was reportedly totaled. > Buelvas, owner of Gangster Cycles in Dania Beach, said the bike was > worth $85,000. > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org -- Rob Sharp rob@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:37:26 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:37:15 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood At 08:46 AM 12/8/04 -0800, Kelly Norton wrote: >An $85,000 bike? Was it made of solid gold? I would >be afraid to ride anything that expensive. Custom bikes are expensive...though it's possible the value of that one has been pumped up a bit, post accident... Typical custom from Texas Iron Horse, Vengeance, or the other high volume builders are in the $30,000-$50,000 range. The Tuttles built one on their TV show for a special order customer that was $145,000. Enough custom fabrication, chrome or polishing, fancy artwork paint, and high performance parts will run the total for a custom bike up fast. There are some paint jobs that cost more than the average H-D bike does. I agree, I'd be really hesitant to ride a bike that cost that much...but then again, there are people who make that in a week or less, so it's not that big a deal for them, and it would be insured anyway. -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 12:38:39 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:38:35 -0500 To: "dc Cycles" From: Troutman Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood Looks to be in his late 30s and dumb as a brick. Hit him with an early 90s Thunderbird. At 08:19 AM 12/8/2004, Rob Sharp wrote: >I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I >would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I >would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:06:05 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=rrdSLrtcmKbqrzmyWHDfcbIAjUiNAof6vQhJlB0cEIHzRtyHDT3xu4lIP1k5DCiDqq9SuEBgWZZbCoGFXpFMYnzZAiTLRXYqHCKzuYH+ZpIOmj21ObzAD8JlvNTKqq1jWpOTf7n+/BG+J7IiKxif3s4zhTqQAoyssHyYDTlMmpk= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:05:57 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-CYCLES Subject: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos How about a big Bronx cheer for the DC Council? No, it's not the baseball stadium giveaway this time. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45272-2004Dec7.html They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. Reasons cited: lower emissions and fuel consumption. Well, folks, my motos get 40-45 mpg in city traffic, better than some hybrid drivers claim in real world conditions. Also cited in the article increases in fees for SUVs >5,000 pounds, citing size, and wear and tear on the roads. If that's the criteria to use, let's review: 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid 175" length, 67.5" width, 2,449 lbs. curb weight 2005 Toyota Prius 175" length, 67.9" width, 2,890 lbs. curb weight 1995 Honda VFR750 83.7" length, 28.3" width, 523 lbs. curb weight 2005 Kawasaki KLR650 87" length, 37" width, 392 lbs. curb weight It seems to me that the Council's rationale for taxing motorcycles at 44% higher rates than hybrid cages flunks miserably on both counts. Letter dispatched soon to Councilmember Schwartz. DC residents, this appears to be Bill 15-1011, if you care to lodge a complaint with your Councilmembers. **"So-called" because they still derive 100% of their go-juice from burning petroleum, just like every other vehicle on the road. Would my motos be "hybrids" if I shifted to neutral and coasted down every hill? -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:08:00 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:07:48 EST Subject: Re: Driver Ignores Yelling Motorcyclist On Car's Hood To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX According to the link. "Today, however they have announced he is charged with the following: Leaving the scene of an accident involving damage. Failure to report an accident immediately. Failure to leave information. Careless driving. Having no insurance." I bet the last one is why he kept on going. He probably hoped the guy would fall off and there were no witnesses. Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2004 12:39:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: Looks to be in his late 30s and dumb as a brick. Hit him with an early 90s Thunderbird. At 08:19 AM 12/8/2004, Rob Sharp wrote: >I wonder if the cage driver maybe very old and maybe not fit to drive. I >would be interested to know the drivers age. If I hit something so big I >would stop and see no matter what I thought it was. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:18:27 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:17:37 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 01:05 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the >fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less >than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. You should never be surprised when a neo-liberal government acts illogically, but within the bounds of "Politically Correct". Keep electing such people, and you'll keep seeing results like this. I wouldn't expect D.C. to change anytime soon...you might want to consider moving...you are within 5 miles of at least a slight improvement, and you wouldn't be the first to do so. At least your tax rates would be lower, even if you still didn't like the government's policies. D.C.'s population has dropped, what, 100,000 in the last 20 years (about 20% I think that is). If it keeps up, the whole "home rule" and "representation/statehood" issues will be moot...nobody will be living there anymore. Besides being lower in weight, a bike only uses half the lane too, so there's even lower road wear than the lower weight might indicate...so things are even worse than you thought! ;-) Not to mention only half the tire disposal problem...or less, as the tires are smaller as well as being less-numerous. Ok, so maybe they don't last as long as car tires and that balances things out a bit...they take up less parking space, which decreases that problem too...or could if the government would set things up to take advantage of that fact... -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:24:54 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=BK54weykqXqO2gZ3dJPxvhJHVENhNktIjrZK1oS0kCDivy1bgELoaHrZkTnvwhxjsQ1UZDX9tvBl3e1flppSNpq5glGCWy+rZwCu9DGh5r1gc4VI6YuwJz05p3d7ZsIIxy2rMeg51mcHkGxAst+zv2ZbnJABeNOc73elC6JLu+4= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:24:42 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: DC-CYCLES Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. Hey, aren't my bikes "hybrids"? You guys are always prattling on about "rice-burners." That ought to qualify them as alternative fuel vehicles. ;-) On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 13:17:37 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:05 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >They've cut registration fees for so-called hybrids**, dropping the > >fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're wondering, $36 is less > >than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. > > You should never be surprised when a neo-liberal government acts > illogically, but within the bounds of "Politically Correct". Keep electing > such people, and you'll keep seeing results like this. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:40:25 2004 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=32mnICUe2jjmtVR0FDHhSQse2JFN0OmJWDHLVLvKVd7oJQ6xJ9zZ5X89bJIrDHu7r6ocYbOgsiru2c76DbuqFkKaxFwKJ6SC2u71ABYg/zgx1hJigDCSbNBui15nrDnc+v+1tA8Y0tNVFgcIovlehCbDmTdIcL6V1F0baTT3IOc= ; Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay more. Not to mention that some of them take up more than one parking space in my area. As for motorcycles, remember this is the democratic process. They had two public hearings on this issue and not one motorcyclist showed up but hybrid owners did. So we got left you. He did agree that its a good point about motorcycles and that he will try to keep us in mind in the future. However this bill is on the Mayor's desk so its not going to happen now. As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. I find myself very happy with my limited political representation in DC and am thrilled when government policy attemps (however flawed) to encourage gas efficient veichles and discourage oversized veichles. BTW, the author of this bill is a Republican. --- Paul Wilson wrote: > How about a big Bronx cheer for the DC Council? No, > it's not the > baseball stadium giveaway this time. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45272-2004Dec7.html > > They've cut registration fees for so-called > hybrids**, dropping the > fees in half from $72 to $36. In case you're > wondering, $36 is less > than the moto registration fee of $52 per annum. > > Reasons cited: lower emissions and fuel > consumption. Well, folks, my > motos get 40-45 mpg in city traffic, better than > some hybrid drivers > claim in real world conditions. > > Also cited in the article increases in fees for SUVs > >5,000 pounds, > citing size, and wear and tear on the roads. If > that's the criteria > to use, let's review: > > 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid > > 175" length, 67.5" width, 2,449 lbs. curb weight > > 2005 Toyota Prius > > 175" length, 67.9" width, 2,890 lbs. curb weight > > 1995 Honda VFR750 > > 83.7" length, 28.3" width, 523 lbs. curb weight > > 2005 Kawasaki KLR650 > > 87" length, 37" width, 392 lbs. curb weight > > It seems to me that the Council's rationale for > taxing motorcycles at > 44% higher rates than hybrid cages flunks miserably > on both counts. > > Letter dispatched soon to Councilmember Schwartz. > DC residents, this > appears to be Bill 15-1011, if you care to lodge a > complaint with your > Councilmembers. > > **"So-called" because they still derive 100% of > their go-juice from > burning petroleum, just like every other vehicle on > the road. Would > my motos be "hybrids" if I shifted to neutral and > coasted down every > hill? > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 13:41:25 2004 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:41:07 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES I meant Paul and I will live where WE want...separately...not that there is anything wrong with that. (-; __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page )B– Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:53:48 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:53:28 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 10:40 AM 12/8/04 -0800, Mark Kitchell wrote: >I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. >First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for >tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay >more. Who says an SUV does more damage? They weigh more in general, though not much more than a luxury car in many cases, but they also tend to have larger tire contact patches, which spreads the weight better. It's the lbs/sq in figure that kills the roads for the most part. Still, bikes are low impact no matter what you look at: weight, fuel consumption, air pollution (at least on newer bikes), parking space, impact damage, resource usage. About the only place they probably lose out to cars is in the area of noise pollution...and that's not the case with *all* bikes...just the fun ones! ;-) >As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live >where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. I wasn't bitching about the D.C. government, Paul was. I was just pointing out that it's easily avoidable, and that a lot of people have figured that out already. This isn't the first stupid law that's been proposed there, or even enacted. Maryland certainly has its share of stupid laws, but the rate seems to be slightly lower here. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:53:49 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500 To: Paul Wilson , DC-CYCLES From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. Fewer cars means less pollution. A car that pollutes less does the same thing. Hybrids were found to pollute less by the EPA, so they qualify for priveleges...the fact that the EPA screwed up the tests is a separate issue... >Hey, aren't my bikes "hybrids"? You guys are always prattling on >about "rice-burners." That ought to qualify them as alternative fuel >vehicles. ;-) Works for me...when you are pushing it down the road, you are "bio-energy powered" too! -- -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 14:56:58 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=ToihC3GEKTaXiOTHxicbvjcE1pu50cmCNgC01IASuJ4K3xPNmqb58A6kX8NDvrGtHU5wS8AOwRE5/5SW4G+wP8Z7G+wPNgTanv08QDrbEQ3C1dYQgkA61VQzRTsplqbc6YNhxdWQ4cpDKZflfl1pRLfzm6/ZUZeBLOD/VK75G4c= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:56:51 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES While we're handing out the Razzberry Awards, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention two things the DC Gov't got right this year, with respect to motorcycles. 1) Reciprocity for rider training with Md. and Va. Md. and Va. MSF card-holders need no longer take the DMV's riding test. 2) Inspections good for two years, just like cages. Previously motos needed to inspected annually. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0800 (PST), Mark Kitchell wrote: > I just spoke with Adam Meier of Carol's office. > First, I gave them a big KUDOS for increasing fees for > tanks/huge SUVs. If you do more damage you should pay > more. Not to mention that some of them take up more > than one parking space in my area. > > As for motorcycles, remember this is the democratic > process. They had two public hearings on this issue > and not one motorcyclist showed up but hybrid owners > did. So we got left you. He did agree that its a > good point about motorcycles and that he will try to > keep us in mind in the future. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:02:38 2004 Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:02:05 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos To: DC-CYCLES >As for Bartman and the usual anti-DC crowd...you live >where you want, Paul and I will live where I want. [Dave] Paul? Something you want to share with the list? ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:06:54 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=GntMIGXcFXTOMtl2AMQF45aFZkZ1QlrKnkvBs/ihVSooxNvXuB280OfCWibhXznVwOSyJdPwtuwRiIBq4MBtQmmDkW2YSzYXiVDusg85eAR0r8V49tA9tX7GWcOkw0lVntDQ8Jc6OFooDYrHXI6Np349mlzU3AJETIsVBTeobCA= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:06:47 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their fleets. On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA > >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do > >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was > >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. > > No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help > with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. > > HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:08:22 2004 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=bl3iNSvP8ZdK/5BAuNt9DSfAnWS4Y7SmyHCL0Xopo4MoTUVmL9skMss135M3uOmrcSrF150Jn2kY6h3wyZGJ0toMbZ/GmuE9Rh1N986izAvT60W4E/Yj06FGeJkY/+ybxJ51OwwVzorsM/LuJvymyB4S7fzMokBoYl3xBwBdeQo= Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:08:13 -0500 From: Paul Wilson To: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC Council cuts reg fees, but not for motos Cc: DC-CYCLES Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no better mileage at highway speeds than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE targets without improving the economy of the other offerings in their fleets. On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:06:47 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > Not so sure about that. "Hybrids" get no mileage at highway speeds > than your more conventional econo-box, as a lot of owners found out, > much to their chagrin. (They're all gas at that point.) They do > better in stop and go traffic when the electrics kick in, so maybe > that's the good reason to kick 'em out of the HOV lanes. ;-) > > HOV lanes are one of the biggest scams in transportation today. > Basically, it's taking highway widening and calling it something else. > > You're right about the inflated EPA figures. And the auto > manufacturers jumped on it, big time, 'cuz it helps them meet CAFE > targets without improving the economy of the other offering in their > fleets. > > > > > On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 14:46:09 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:24 PM 12/8/04 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: > > >Hybrids are just the latest feel-good fad. DC is hardly alone. VA > > >offers HOV privileges for hybrid drivers, even though they do > > >diddly-squat in terms of congestion mitigation, which (I thought) was > > >the prime rationale behind HOV lanes. > > > > No, the HOV lanes were for air quality improvement, and hybrids can help > > with that, so it makes sense to let them use HOV. > > > > HOV was supposed to improve air quality by encouraging car pooling. > > -- > Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org > 95 VFR - 90 KLR > -- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR - 90 KLR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 8 15:19:18 2004 Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:18:48 -0500 To: Paul Wilso