From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:34:09 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:32:49 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Dang, it's cold... I hate winter. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:40:33 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "William J. Huson" , Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:52 -0500 Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM Subject: Dang, it's cold... > I hate winter. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:40:50 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:40:45 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Perfect riding weather today. Only mild numbness in my fingers when I rolled in at 9. At 09:32 AM 12/1/2003, William J. Huson wrote: >I hate winter. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:41:24 2003 Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 09:37:44 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > I hate winter. > > I love winter. I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl would just cause accidents ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:55:36 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , "Troutman" Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:54:27 -0500 Yeah, balmy today for the ride to work. Milady and I decamped to West Va. for the weekend. 6" of snow and temps in the 20s. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" > Perfect riding weather today. Only mild numbness in my fingers when I > rolled in at 9. > > At 09:32 AM 12/1/2003, William J. Huson wrote: > >I hate winter. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:58:34 2003 Subject: RE: Dang, it's cold... (but the sales are great!) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:58:23 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , I actually thought it was pretty mild out there this morning, but I wimped out and took the truck so I can't attest to the wind-chill factor. I did get out to Coleman's on Black Friday, and I think the salespeople on the floor outnumbered the browsers. Tried on a lot of gear there, and more at MFI on Saturday. The Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket/pants looks like the most feasible (price-wise) option for my pillion rider, as it offered the best fit, (apparent) best protection, and most features for the lowest price. I currently have the First Gear Kilimanjaro jacket and (some name...) pants, but MFI didn't have much First Gear selection for women. Salesperson at MFI did assure me that sale prices for next weekend's sale were also good for merchandise orders, in case they were out of a size/model. I was a little disappointed in the selection of Vanson gear for women at either retail store, alll the jackets on display seemed to be aimed at the cruiser/poser crowd and lacked even basic armor. And for heaven's sake, pink piping does not belong on a motorcycle jacket! Boot selection was an issue at both places, Coleman only had selected (cheesy) models of boots for women, and MFI was out of almost every waterproof boot model. On a pricing note; both stores had the same list prices on clothing, even though the salesperson at Coleman offered me "Black Friday prices" on some gear while I was there. I priced two items for the Interceptor; instrument light bulbs and a speedo cable. They were out of stock on the cable (I can understand, it's an old bike) but the price of 29.99 was five bucks more than Manassas Honda quoted me. Also asked about instrument panel bulbs; 3.05 apiece. Manassas Honda: 1.99. When I asked the parts guy about the difference in prices, I was assured that Coleman carried Honda factory parts, and the prices I got from Manassas were probably for after-market parts. Hmmm... Robert Verde From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:09:39 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:08:28 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Carl Schelin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > > I hate winter. > > > > > > I love winter. > > I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl > would just cause accidents ;-) > > Carl I've had accidents while nude. Expensive ones - insurance doesn't cover food, shleter, clothes, and college tuition... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:12:56 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. Yes, cold weather means less traction for performance oriented tires. Be careful rolling into the gas leaned over exiting turns, too. You'll spin the rear much easier. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:16:54 2003 Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 10:13:15 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 10:08, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > > > > > I love winter. > > > > I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl > > would just cause accidents ;-) > > > > Carl > > I've had accidents while nude. Expensive ones - insurance doesn't cover > food, shleter, clothes, and college tuition... > Well. They were "accidents" to me. Turns out she was planning them :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:19:05 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:17:55 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Closest I came to Canada was two freezing years in Michigan. Delivering newspapers in a howling wind at 22 below zero cured me of any affetction for winter. It was so dang cold when you hocked a loogie it would be crackling ice before it hit the snow. Screw that, give me coastal swamps and 80+ temps with nice sweaty humidity. Swamp rat Bill Julian Halton wrote: > Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to > twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought > what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh > jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William J. Huson" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM > Subject: Dang, it's cold... > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:26:25 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:31:08 -0500 What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? The car radar on 295 in DC got me. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:35:55 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:35:37 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: License plate spray To: Michael Lynch , "'DCCycles'" Their was an ad for it in this week's City Paper. --- Michael Lynch wrote: > What ever happened to the person who said they were > buying the > anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a > report? > > The car radar on 295 in DC got me. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:36:52 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:36:52 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: License plate spray At 10:31 AM 12/1/2003, Michael Lynch wrote: >What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the >anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? > >The car radar on 295 in DC got me. If you believe Dateline, none of those products work at all. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:38:51 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:37:22 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... At 09:32 AM 12/1/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >I hate winter. It was a little chilly (38 or so) yesterday morning (particularly on I-270) when I left for the HOG ride up to Westminster for lunch, but it wasn't bad at all for the ride home afterwards (about 50 I think). Everyone else had heated gear on, but a couple of layers topped with leather were enough for me. I'm a mammal. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:52:22 2003 Subject: Wet Weather Report From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 10:48:43 -0500 Speaking of reports. I wore my Joe Rocket gear home Friday in the rain. Lovely rain. Wet rain :-) Gear: Full face helmet, bandana around chin, Joe Rocket Alter Ego jacket, Joe Rocket Revolution pants, Wal*Mart plastic bags, Totes. My only complaint is with the neck closures. On the TourMaster rain gear they use velcro closures for the arms and neck. With those I can pretty much seal the openings. I used the bandana to block the rain from getting to my neck but the back tire spray ran down and into my neck opening. At Springfield I was feeling a cold trickle going down my breastbone. By Lorton it was pooling around my belly. By Dale City it had run down into my lap. When I got home I was dry everywhere except in that line down my front and into my lap. Next time I'll wrap the bandana around my neck. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:16:27 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:14:49 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795c2414760b24c5f35020bc23c355e3d2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > >What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the > >anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? > > > >The car radar on 295 in DC got me. > > If you believe Dateline, none of those products work at all. [Dave] I haven't read, seen, or heard anything more recent then about '01, and I have no personal experience with any of the devices other than the Valentine one radar & laser detector. There was a show on TLC which tested some items. a couple of jammers - radar and laser, plus some of the plate blockers. I've also seen a couple of print articles by moto rags, electronic mags, etc. The tag bracket mount laser jammer is apparetnly _the_$hit_, and that's a good thing because I got lasered in the wife's car over the weekend. The wife's car moves barely faster than a two toed sloth, so the only ticket I'm gonna get in that thing is obstructing traffic. The passive jammers / chirp reflectors and what have you are vaporware - they do nothing. The active jammers, which you used to be able to buy for about $600 absolutely, positively destroyed all the effective radar guns in service on X and K band, but not Ka band. I recall that the anti laser plate blockers also worked to a limited degree, they cut the range that you could be read significantly, but not permanently. I recall reading somewhere that the spray did have some effectiveness, but I don't recall the source. Again, I have no personal experience with the above items except the V1. I have a good friend who is a mechanic at a major Ford dealer. There was a cruiser in for some sort of work, not a state trooper... The topic of BS^H^H err discussion went over to radar detectors. The officer conceded that VG2 could pick up most detectors .. .except the V1. As luck would have it _another_ vehicle in the service bay _just_happened to have a V1 all ready to go.... Sure enough, according to my mechanic friend, not so much as a peep off the VG2 for as close as they could get them... For those of you interested in that bit of trivia for STRICTLY informational purposes... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:36:49 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "William J. Huson" , Julian Halton Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:37:13 -0500 HA! I slept on a frozen lake in Boy Scouts on year. I didn't have a thermometer, but when I peed it was was frozen before it hit the ground or shortly there after. Rob On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:17:55 -0500, William J. Huson wrote > Closest I came to Canada was two freezing years in Michigan. Delivering > newspapers in a howling wind at 22 below zero cured me of any > affetction for winter. It was so dang cold when you hocked a loogie > it would be crackling ice before it hit the snow. Screw that, give > me coastal swamps and 80+ temps with nice sweaty humidity. > > Swamp rat Bill > > Julian Halton wrote: > > > Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to > > twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought > > what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh > > jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I > > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William J. Huson" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM > > Subject: Dang, it's cold... > > > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > > > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:43:43 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel American^[)BM-^Rs BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is it a decent carrier to use? Thanks, -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:47:45 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:48:07 -0500 As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I get this done and save some dollars? Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:51:27 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I do and no complaints yet. I have not had any claims. They insure the less desirables, like me. --- Sean Steele wrote: > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > American^[)BM-^Rs BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is > it a decent carrier to use? > > Thanks, > > -Sean > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:53:29 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:53:11 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Ask someone mechanically on the list to show/teach you how to do it yourself. Buy the oil and the instructor a six pacl of their favorite liquid refreshment and......viola, you've got your oil changed. :-) Scooter (mechanically challenged so, don't ask me. ;-)) In a message dated 12/1/2003 3:48:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the > corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:54:19 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:08:59 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: The C factor On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers I change my oil about every 3-4k miles (more frequent when racing/riding hard) and do it myself. Cost is just oil/filter :-) Do it yourself or find a friend to do it for you/show you how if you don't know how. I always offer up my garage to help if you someone needs it. If you don't have one already, get a factory service manual for your bike. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:10:54 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: The C factor To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This is where I like to insert my favorite technical website link. Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how to change your oil: http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm (no that's not my page) Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:11:18 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:10:48 -0500 Like everyone else said, learn to do it yourself. On most bikes it pretty darn easy. In addition, though, read your owners manual. It will tell you how often to change oil. Every 2K is a waste of money unless you're spending most weekends at the race track. > > From: "Julian Halton" > Date: 2003/12/01 Mon PM 03:48:07 EST > To: > Subject: The C factor > > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:15:43 2003 Subject: Oli change by the numbers (was: The C factor) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:15:40 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Outstanding link. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Chris Weaver [mailto:chris_vtr@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:11 PM This is where I like to insert my favorite technical website link. Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how to change your oil: http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:19:35 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:16:10 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" > I do and no complaints yet. I have not had any > claims. They insure the less desirables, like me. > > > --- Sean Steele wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > > American's BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? I've been wondering why my rates have been going up, then I remembered Mark is a recent DC immigrant. And I have no moving violations or accidents on my record. No claims on my Markel policy either. They're one of the few insurance companies that actually wants to insure bikes in DC, if their premiums are any guide. I also worked with State Farm, but they only wanted to do a package deal with the cage, and their cage rates are higher, so it would have been a wash. State Farm's bike rates were slightly lower at the time. This was two years ago though. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:27:02 2003 Subject: Re: The C factor From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 16:23:23 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 16:10, Chris Weaver wrote: > This is where I like to insert my favorite technical > website link. > > Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how > to change your oil: > http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm > (no that's not my page) > Hmm, I dunno. I think watching Barbie change the oil would be more interesting ;-) I'll have to check the site and see who they have doing a valve job. Thanks. > Chris Weaver > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:39:12 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: The C factor To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Barbie does valve adjustments. http://users.tmok.com/~kpaxton/barbievalves.html Leon. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Hmm, I dunno. I think watching Barbie change the oil > would be more > interesting ;-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:40:26 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:39:12 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor Lemme see - oil change. If you're not sure where the filter and drain plug is, purchase and aftermarket manual (Haynes - Clymers?) for your bike, purcahse correct filter and oil, probably 4 quarts of 10w/40w, locate tools to do trhe job, and proceed to wrench. If your close to Annandale VA I'm home most every day and have many tools and a bike lift or two. Bill Julian Halton wrote: > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:48:35 2003 Subject: Re: The C factor From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 16:44:56 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 16:39, Leon Begeman wrote: > Barbie does valve adjustments. > http://users.tmok.com/~kpaxton/barbievalves.html > Leon. > I think I prefer DI Joe, or maybe Barbie should stick to oil changes. She takes blurry pictures and doesn't like getting her hands dirty. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:03:58 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:03:31 -0500 Change the oil yourself. Lots of arguments about which oil. I don't care what you use, but I use higher (not highest) quality automotive oil (not synthetic) with appropriate SAE ratings and weights. You can look up which non-OEM filters fit your bike so you don't pay the outrageous bike shop price.... example list: http://www.micapeak.com/bike/ST1300/FilterXRef.html Since I never spend > $2 a quart (and buy by the case) and I never spend > $6 a filter....a change costs me less than $13 and half an hour of my time, and is multiplexed with consuming a beer. Oh yeah, every 2,000 miles is a load of sh!t. 3,500 is appropriately conservative.... --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: The C factor > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:06:14 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Chris Weaver" Cc: Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:05:54 -0500 Great Link! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Weaver" > http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:52:24 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:51:36 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c260999644499e16d308baf7c7a4c5ca29f05350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >.except the V1. As luck would have it _another_ vehicle in the service bay >_just_happened to have a V1 all ready to go.... Sure enough, according to my mechanic >friend, not so much as a peep off the VG2 for as close as they could get them... >For those of you interested in that bit of trivia for STRICTLY informational purposes... Ya gets what ya pays for (on a good day) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 19:42:38 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:39:13 -0500 > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > American's BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is > it a decent carrier to use? Markel is the only people we could find to insure my NSR250 without any questions...gotta love that!!!! Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 23:41:59 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:31:19 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 03:48 PM 12/1/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: >2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the >'02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the >cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast. Yeah, that does seem high. I got mine changed at Battleys (H-D FLSTCI) for about $50 a couple of weeks ago. That included the chrome oil filter. Other than changes that coincide, or are included, with scheduled maintenance that I'll let them do, I figure on doing my own from now on. Should cost half or less than what that one cost, for the filter and oil. I'll give myself a really good price on the labor... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 23:42:02 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:43:42 -0500 To: "Jon Strang" , "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 05:03 PM 12/1/03 -0500, Jon Strang wrote: >Oh yeah, every 2,000 miles is a load of sh!t. 3,500 is appropriately >conservative.... You could be right, but in chatting with one of the longtime mechanics at Battley's (been there something over 13 years I hear) I was told that one of the bikes he works on there had oil changes every 1000 miles (more frequently than H-D suggests BTW) and when he opened up the engine at something over 100,000 miles, it looked "pretty good in there". Whether that would still have been true with 3500 mile changes I have no idea. I figure that changing too often can only hurt the wallet, not the bike. Changing not often enough will hurt both. I'll err on the side of caution I think. Besides, it's something you can do with your bike on a rainy day. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 08:45:46 2003 Subject: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:45:34 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:03:42 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:02:31 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues I believe Crossroads has a trailer and will pick up the bike. I can't vouch for the speed and accuracy, thay had mine for close to 3 months and returned it with several analomies like failure to torque the crank nut which caused a total non-run failure when the timing gear spit off. Managed to lose my spare ignition key too... Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:32:18 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Verde, Robert" , Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:30:14 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verde, Robert" > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. .... > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just right. If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a 98+ VFR? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:32:44 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:32:39 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >a halt. Double damn. That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:43:46 2003 Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:43:38 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , I've had a few problems in the past six months or so with the kill switch working "too" effectively, and not allowing the bike to start even with the switch in the "on" position. Since the starter button is just below this switch, there could be some problem with with the switch cluster or the wiring harness to the right clip-on. I think I'll try the whack-a-solenoid (relay?) trick first, then unhook the wiring and see if I can trace the problem. However, given that the starter stays engaged even with the key out of the bike, I think it's got more to do with something making a direct connection between the battery and the starter, which would point to the relay as the root of the problem. It's a '83 VF750F, and the only problems I have had with starting in the past have had more to do with the starter *not* engaging unless the gears were positively in neutral. Had to rock it back and forth a few times when the green light was on, to free up whatever was preventing the starter from hooking up. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:30 AM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just right. If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a 98+ VFR? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:47:46 2003 Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:47:39 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Troutman" , They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got pretty hot pretty fast. However, it does suggest other potential problems with the starter, if it was creating that much of a load. The poles on both batteries are fine, each has color-coded caps and the cables are also marked. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:33 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >a halt. Double damn. That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:04:08 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:02:59 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Troutman wrote: > At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on > >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to > >a halt. Double damn. > > That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I > assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! > Then you've never had the thrill of trying to jump batterys with a cheesy set of *emergency* jumper cables which are so light gauged they can barely conduct enough amperage to fire up the headlights. Back in the days when cars had metal bumpers I would run my car up and touch bumpers with the dead car and use both my medium gauge cables to run + to +. Worked like a champ, but you had to make sure the bumper touch was solid or the sparks would weld them together - eek! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:06:43 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:05:32 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Had a dead switch prob with the harley about a month ago. Cure, hose the switchs with CRC 6-56 (better'n WD-40) and work them on/off several times. Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I've had a few problems in the past six months or so with the kill switch working "too" effectively, and not allowing the bike to start even with the switch in the "on" position. Since the starter button is just below this switch, there could be some problem with with the switch cluster or the wiring harness to the right clip-on. I think I'll try the whack-a-solenoid (relay?) trick first, then unhook the wiring and see if I can trace the problem. > > However, given that the starter stays engaged even with the key out of the bike, I think it's got more to do with something making a direct connection between the battery and the starter, which would point to the relay as the root of the problem. > > It's a '83 VF750F, and the only problems I have had with starting in the past have had more to do with the starter *not* engaging unless the gears were positively in neutral. Had to rock it back and forth a few times when the green light was on, to free up whatever was preventing the starter from hooking up. > > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:30 AM > To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cold starting blues > > > > Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's > starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just > right. > > If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that > connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter > relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a > 98+ VFR? > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:09:11 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:08:00 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues HA! Just what I suspected - cheesy cable syndrome. Toss those junkers and invest in 4 gauge cables. Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got pretty hot pretty fast. > > However, it does suggest other potential problems with the starter, if it was creating that much of a load. > > The poles on both batteries are fine, each has color-coded caps and the cables are also marked. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:33 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cold starting blues > > At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on > >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to > >a halt. Double damn. > > That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I > assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:28:56 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:16:51 -0500 Was the Dakota on? >From: "Verde, Robert" >To: "Troutman" , >Subject: RE: Cold starting blues >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:47:39 -0500 > >They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably >weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery >was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got >pretty hot pretty fast. _________________________________________________________________ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you^[)BM-^Rll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:40:48 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:39:52 -0500 From: Skip To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues "Verde, Robert" wrote: [snip] > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my > turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out > after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it > a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. > Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. I suspect the switch or the relay. for the switch, try a little precussive maintenance followed by WD-40 or the like and some more rapping. for the relay, some tapping may "fix" it, but if it does, it needs to be replaced. Good Luck! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 12:55:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:54:28 -0500 To: Troutman , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 09:32 AM 12/2/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >>Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >>the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >>a halt. Double damn. > >That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I >assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! It means there's probably a short somewhere I think...or the cables are severely undersized. I've had cables get hot enough to soften the insulation when cranking a large motor with light duty cables for more than a few seconds. Heat is a byproduct of resistance and current. If the bike's normal starting current shouldn't melt the cables, then there's something else that's increasing the current draw...and a short sounds like a good place to start...especially since the battery seemed weak. Yes, it could be an aged battery, but it could also be one that's trying to feed a high resistance short as well as the normal draw. Of course, with the fuses staying intact, either the short is bypassing them somehow, the short has enough resistance to keep the current below the fuse ratings, or it isn't a short and the cables were probably just too light for the job. With a weak battery you won't be using the cables to quick charge the battery and then drawing from the battery to start...the majority of the current will be going through the cables right to the starter, and that could be enough to melt light duty cables. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 13:43:40 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'd like to ask you a question if I may... ===== "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not last if we do not learn to forgive. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 14:13:19 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0500 Matthew, We (wife and I) own a '93 ZX-6E. That is the first year of the current model, IIRC. E1, I guess. If that is of any use to you, fire away. Regards, Perry >From: matthew patton >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) > >I'd like to ask you a question if I may... > >===== >"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in >Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 > >Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this >happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not >last if we do not learn to forgive. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________________________________ Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment, video game reviews, and more here. http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 15:32:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Verde, Robert'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:37:37 -0500 I had the exact same thing happen on my Honda 300EX quad, only the battery was good and it kept going, and going, and going. I rapped on the starter solenoid with a screwdriver handle and it worked. The cause there was a drowned, and subsequently corroded solenoid. Replacement was necessary. HTH Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Verde, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:46 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Cold starting blues > > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. > Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn > over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up > right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter > ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even > kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, > further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a > jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with > no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing > everything to a halt. Double damn. > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? > (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck > cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) > I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I > suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," > and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 15:39:59 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i've owned a '94 zx6e in the past. maybe i can help. --- matthew patton wrote: > I'd like to ask you a question if I may... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:31:27 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:31:19 -0500 From: Kendall Clark To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dealership recommendation Reply-To: kendall@XXXXXX Folks, I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and I'm anxious to buy a new bike. I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good selection. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Best, Kendall Clark -- Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:42:42 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: , Subject: ZX-6 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:42:05 -0500 Hi Matt, I had a ZX6D for a while and loved it. The trans was starting to go so I sold it and got the VFR. Lisa Goddard From: "Perry Coleman" To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0500 Matthew, We (wife and I) own a '93 ZX-6E. That is the first year of the current model, IIRC. E1, I guess. If that is of any use to you, fire away. Regards, Perry >From: matthew patton >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) > >I'd like to ask you a question if I may... > >===== >"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in >Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 > >Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this >happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not >last if we do not learn to forgive. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:47:31 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:30 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the area, the list, and the hobby. You picked a chilly time to get into it, though... I don't know squat about HD dealerships, although there are a bunch of Harley riders on the list. I've been to Clinton Cycles (http://www.clintoncycles.com/, out on MD-5 just outside the Beltway), and they seem reasonably friendly. They seem to carry about ten Triumph standards/cruisers in stock at a time, but I can't comment on their test ride policy or how much pressure they exert. Maybe I'll swing by and ask for a test ride some day this week (they're sort of on my way home) and let you know. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:54:59 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:53:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c4005482ca5abb79d35192b9eabf7d38350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Kendall decloaked: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. [Dave] Welcome to the sport. To be clear, you say 1: You're new to DC 2: You're new to motorcycling 3: you are looking for a new bike Are we on the same page so far ? > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is possessing you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not get a new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on that list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a theoretical 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have a bike available ;-) Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. Used bikes - even 1 or 2 years - are MUCH cheaper to insure than new ones. Plus, you can afford "more bike" used, for your dollar. HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:06:42 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:06:31 -0500 To: DC Cycles Kendall, Welcome to the fold. I haven't been there, but I heard that the Manayunk Triumph dealer is very happy to give test rides. You should go down there when you're in town. I love that Thruxton. It's quite a looker. As far as HD, I believe Washington HD in Maryland has a demo fleet. They also seem to have decent stock. On Dec 2, 2003, at 7:31 PM, Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph > in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, > so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with > either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > > Best, > Kendall Clark > -- > Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. > > sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:22:11 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: 20W40 vs. 10W30 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, in theory, would hold up better in an older bike engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few months in cold temps? Hehe. In theory, of course. -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:44:03 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:43:35 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph > cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm > wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? Welcome. Clinton Cycles is the only Triumph dealer in the greater DC area, according to the flier I received today. They do give test rides, but not on every specific model. They have a big open house this weekend as well. They were very, very good for service up until a year ago, but they've had some personnel turnover recently -- don't know if it has affected the service department. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:01:13 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:00:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > Kendall decloaked: > > > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean > a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is > possessing > you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely > to > at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not > get > a > new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on > that > list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a > theoretical > 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat > bike, > and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of > gloves, > one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich > or > comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what > you > like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without > a > bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still > have > a > bike available ;-) > Let me second that one. My hawg is still in the shop and yet I'm still able to enjoy the chilly morning rides (especially after the gym) on my Suzuki. It's getting harder and harder to convince myself to sell this thing with only one car in the house. > Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. This is a tough one to follow (IMO). After spending the past couple of years getting the cheap stuff and then upgrading, let me tell you. Save the money. Get the good stuff up front. We'll _all_ contribute to that education if you want (that's why I keep posting my opinions on the gear I buy). And pay attention to what Dave said above WRT gear. It's sound advise. > HTH > > Dave Yates > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:12:13 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the club. Perfect weather for riding. Got your long johns? They won't do you any good ;-) > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > Note: While I visit East Coast what seems like a lot, my comments are based on summer 2002 when I was shopping for a bike. 1) The dealers down here don't offer test rides except during demo days (that'd be Patriot in Fairfax, Whitts in Manassas, and East Coast in Dumfries). Don't bother with Patriot though. As of 2002 they didn't sell outside the 703 area code. They used to rent bikes but I heard they stopped. 2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. 3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had sold signs on them. > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > What Dave said about not buying new. My wife got a new one and dropped it just before the 600 mile mark. A couple of scratches but no real damage. (Wasn't there a new Bandit that got dropped as well and potentially totalled? Man, my memory sucks :-) > Best, > Kendall Clark Good luck. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:24:49 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:24:49 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation I'll second and third the recommendations for good gear. Buy it! Wear it! Every single goddamn time! Good places to buy gear: http://www.newenough.com/ http://www.aerostich.com/ These are great places to buy gear: Aerostich for, well, Aerostich suits, New Enough for everything else except helmets. Try http://www.helmetshop.com/ and http://www.helmetcity.com/ for those, but I can't vouch for those sites. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:25:50 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Brrrr To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Be ready for the morning. Anticipated temp: 26 degrees Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) Gonna be chilly. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:45:46 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:26:35 -0500 To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:31 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Kendall Clark wrote: >As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > >I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good >selection. I've had pretty good luck with Rockville Harley-Davidson (Battley Cycles). I got my Heritage there in late September. They have a fair number of bikes in stock and get them in regularly. They know their product. They know it will sell, so they don't push...they are there, they are friendly, they are willing to help you or let you alone as you prefer. They sponsor a really good HOGs club (Montgomery County HOGs) with over 600 members at the moment. They run some rides outside of the HOGs sometimes (I went on one to Arlington Cemetery on Veteran's Day for the wreath laying) and they are pretty laid back about everything (I was a little surprised at the service folks suggesting that much of the regular maintenance could be done by the owner during an evening maintenance seminar they held for the local HOGs). I don't know about test rides, as I didn't ask for one. I do know that Frederick H-D does rentals, and that they have a $50 deal for just a few hours if you want an extended "test ride". They like you to have recent big bike experience though (something I didn't have until I picked up my own bike...hadn't owned a bike in a decade). The $50 includes insurance and helmet. Check out their site at: http://www.hdoffrederick.com/default.htm Battley sells other kinds of bikes too. Buell, BMW, Ducati, and some Yamaha metric cruisers. They also have some Yamaha ATVs. They have a fair selection of gear too (helmets, leathers and other protective stuff, boots, gloves, shirts, heated stuff, etc.). If you want to check them out, this Saturday (the 6th from 10-4) might be a good time. It's their holiday open house. If it's anything like the last one I went to, there will be free burgers and dogs, lots of people around (i.e. customers you can ask for opinions and stories), and some discounts (some pretty good (like 50%) if you need the items covered) on in-stock stuff. They are also taking donations of canned food or money for the Manna Food Center and "Mother" Christine, and running a toy drive. Their web page is at: http://www.battley.com/ MC-HOG is at: http://www.mchog.net/ I don't own the place, or work there. I'm just a satisfied customer. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:45:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:47:42 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:53 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >Kendall decloaked: >> I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like >> the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is >> which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > >[Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean >a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is >possessing >you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to >at least scrape in the next 6 months? While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. I dropped my Honda 700 Saber once after bumping a Chrysler New Yorker in the tail light (bent front fender, broken clutch lever, both easily replaced) but that was after owning it for almost 2 years. I haven't dropped my H-D so far, and I'm working hard to make sure it stays that way, but time will tell. The above is not trying at all to suggest that I'm God's gift to motorcycling with super-human balance and reflexes. That's not me at all. That's an ex-girlfriend's gymnast brother (who was doing block-long wheelies 5 days after getting on a motorcycle for the first time). I'm the other guy. The one who learns physical things slower than average...but who knows it and so takes things slowly and carefully. If you get more bike than you are ready for, and then go out and ride like you are a pro on a race track, yes, you are likely to dump it in short order. If you are careful about things though, you are no more likely to dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as an experienced one. Stuff happens to everyone, but you can avoid adding to the problem with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they are well determined. > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance (the stuff based mostly on your riding history) the only real bike factors my insurance company seemed to care about was bike engine size and whether there were any "performance enhancements" added. The smaller and the fewer the cheaper. A stock Sportster would be cheaper to insure than my stock Softail. It would also be cheaper for comprehensive and collision, since it costs less than half as much to start with. Other insurance companies may have other rules though. >If I had a theoretical >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have >a bike available ;-) Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. If you could pay cash for all that stuff you could just get liability insurance and "self-insure" for the rest...with a loan you will be required to carry full coverage by the lender. You'd probably also get a lot more "wrenching" education that way too. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:51:54 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:51:48 -0500 To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 At 05:22 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Sean Steele wrote: >What's the main difference in these oils? Viscosity (thickness). >Which one, >in theory, would hold up better in an older bike >engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few >months in cold temps? What grade does the bike manufacturer recommend for the temps we are likely to get in the next few months? (i.e. have you RTFM yet? :^) Based on the last 23 years here I'd guess that the next few months will see temps between 70 and 10 degrees, with the average being around 35-40. Whole weeks in the 20s aren't unheard of in December thru February. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:00:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:59:43 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Sean Steele CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 Whatever viscosity is recommended by the bike manufacturer for the temperature range you'll be operating in. I seem to recall Japanese UJM engines like 10W40W for summer climes, but 10W30W might be the choice for chilly weather. Never heard of 20W40W. My Harley uses 20W50W, so gooey it's hard to crank at freezing temps. Not a great choice for winter. Bill Sean Steele wrote: > What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, > in theory, would hold up better in an older bike > engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few > months in cold temps? > > Hehe. In theory, of course. > > -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:01:33 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:00:24 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791536998d041c9bd1e7536efab87d1cc6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike B points out (and reminds Dave): > While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that > dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never > dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, > and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. [Dave] This is a good point which I alluded to, but didn't really clarify. Lots of folks here advocate getting a POS beater, which I _do_not_ agree with. You should get something that interests you, which you will want to hold on to for more than 6 months. I started on a v45 Magna, and within 1 year had a ZX11 which was then the fastest production bike money could buy... And much to my bank account's chagrin, that was not enough. It was but a scant 15 months or so before I started down the Dark Path to adding MORE POWER. Neither have ever been down with me as a pilot. If you have the discipline - and ONLY if, to respect the power, then, and ONLY then should you consider a bike with really decent power and handling as a 1st or 2nd bike. Evaluate that for yourself honestly. you can avoid adding to the problem > with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out > where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and > feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they > are well determined. > > > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. > > That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. > On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance ... [Dave] I wouldn't even consider liability only, especially as a noob... Unless I could insure myself.... > >If I had a theoretical > >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, > >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, > >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or > >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you > >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a > >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have > >a bike available ;-) > > Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:02:32 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 06:12 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went >shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but >that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a >Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. Battley's always has some sportsters around. They may even have one or two 2003's left. They are selling at MSRP these days too. >3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of >new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had >sold signs on them. Battley's has at least a couple of used police models for sale. They were traded in by the local departments for new bikes. They strip the radios, flashing lights and sirens off, and swap the police tires for civilian ones, but that's about it. For anyone who doesn't know (I didn't) the police tires are much stiffer in the sidewalls than the civilian ones...so they can go up a square curb without damage to the rims was the reason I heard. The police seat is great for solo, but lousy if you want to ride two-up. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:13:05 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of > Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); I don't think any Triumph, not even a brand new one, would make a good first bike for anyone who is not comfortable turning wrenches. I only know five people with the new generation of Triumphs, and for the most part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not bashing Triumph at all; god knows I've got a soft spot for any British bike. Just stating a fact... a very very high maintenance bike for a beginner. cheers, patti (insert constantly growing list of broken British stuff here) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:37:59 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running > joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain > the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not geez, what do these people own? I had no problems (that weren't my own doing) on my 1st generation Hinkley. I can easily round up another 5 who can likewise show no complaints. The Hinkley Triumphs (91+) are no less reliable as Kawasaki's. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 23:39:10 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:38:37 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:04:21 2003 Subject: Re: Brrrr From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Dec 2003 08:00:38 -0500 I had the gerbings on half to two-thirds heat most of the way in. Just like with the chaps, my thighs are the only body part that got pretty cold (heated jacket liner and gloves but not pants liner). I figure that once I'm on the Harley again, I'll be able to wear the quilted liner in the pants and will have no problems the rest of the winter. Yesterday I baked in my gear so I mounted my controller to the windshield support struts. I was able to easily adjust the temps and when we slowed down dropped the temps down to about a quarter. The FogCity shield is f***ing awesome. I could see my breath inside the helmet with the shield closed and no condensation. Last night I wore my sunglasses too and found they were fogging up but the shield wasn't. Just a little annoying. After having used it for the past three weeks, there are a couple of minute scratches on the inside shield. I expect that I'll follow another rider's recommendation and just get a new one each year. I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I have a doctor's appointment today and will stop by Crossroads Cycles to get a picture of his Honda Chopper on the way. His "coil box" looks like a good idea for my project bike and I'm visiting Leon's welder Saturday for some fabrication. Later, Carl On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:25, Carl Schelin wrote: > Be ready for the morning. > > Anticipated temp: 26 degrees > Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) > > Gonna be chilly. > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:23:41 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:23:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Fwd: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack To: DC Cycles forwarded per todd peer's request: --- "Todd P." wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:42:22 -0500 > From: "Todd P." > Subject: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack > To: WSDYMF@XXXXXX > > I plan to put the BackPack on eBay unless I can sell it > locally. Anyone? > > Also, I have a couple of jackets I'd like to get rid of. > They will go to > the local Goodwill if I can't sell them. Really hate to > do that as the BMW > Jacket is in damned good shape! > > If someone could forward to DC-Cycles, I'd appreciate it. > > Contact: combat_tourer@XXXXXX > > Thanks. T > > Jackets__________________ > $30 - Black Darien Jacket(XL). > Needs heat taping repair so it isn't completely > water proof. However, for fair weather riding > this jacket is excellent protection > $150 - BMW Savanah Jacket with Gortex Liner (US size 54R) > for > big body. Left arm at crash pad has been used > but the jacket is still very useable. Original > cost was over $600 and $200+ of that was the > liner. You will NOT get wet with this liner, > it's awsome! > > BackPack____________________ > > $50 > This is a used but like brand new internal frame backpack > produced by > Eastern Mountain Sports, a high end outdoor supply store. > This backpack is > totally adjustable to fit your body size. It has > adjustable torso lengths, > waist and shoulder straps. This is a multi-day backpack > with 5000 cubic > inches of capacity. This backpack has only been used one > time and is a > perfectly decent item to add to your adventure camping > gear, or as an > adventurers luggage system! > > Overall: > > 5000 cubic inches > Color: Blue with Maroon > Material: 500/600 Denier CORDURA, nylon extension. > Weight: 5.5Lbs > Adjustable Hip belt to 48" waist > Internal Frame - Removable molded plastic with separate > padding > No Rain Fly but is designed for wet weather (Scotchgaurd) > Top Opening Main Compartment > Front Opening Lower / Sleeping Bag Compartment > Top Flap Pocket - 2, exterior and interior > Two Water Bottle Side Pockets > Multiple strap loops for securing gear > > Other Features: > > Easy access top opening > Heavy duty S-shape padded shoulder straps > Thoracic strap and D rings on shoulder straps > Padded hip belt with adjustable buckled webbing straps > Secure adjustable webbing straps on both sides > Chest buckle straps > Air Flow padded back panel > Padded lower back support suspension > Webbing straps for attaching extra items > Thumb loops for attaching tools, walking stick or ice axes ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:31:50 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX find a good service manual on ebay and pick up some oil and filters in quantity. oil changes are simple.... just don't overtighten the drain plug. get in the habit of doing regular checks of oil level/condition, tire pressure/condition, final drive; and with your japanese inline 4 you'll likely avoid visits to the dealer except for milestone services. -- tg --- Julian Halton wrote: > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some > brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to > me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression > they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change > out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an > oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than > some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so > in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the > corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:42:51 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > If you are careful about things though, you are > no more likely to > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > an experienced > one. what a crock. send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and one slightly elevated heartbeat. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:05:12 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:05:40 -0500 I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:13:41 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:13:06 -0500 Maybe this will help. http://home.pcisys.net/~bpc/auto_law/tint/tint_md.html Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:15:39 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning about the plate, too) :-) YMMV, etc :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:15:57 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:15:35 -0500 http://www.autotrim-md.com/tinting.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:26:09 2003 Subject: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:25:59 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Just an update on the starting problems I had had with the Interceptor: After work yesterday, I bought an inexpensive pair of jumper cables, and pushed the bike to a lighted spot next to my truck. Hooking up the cables the starter came to life again, so I hastily un-hooked cables before I started more experiments in melting rubber... I found the starter relay (right behind the main fuse I was checking yesterday, d'oh!), and gave it a sharp rap on the base with the Leatherman. Then, hooked up the jumper cables again to hear... blessed silence! Whoo-hoo! I left the cables on for a few minutes to give it a bit of a charge (truck was off during this exercise, based on tips from the list) and when I tried the starter, the bike turned over twice and fired right up. What a feeling of relief! I ran it for about ten minutes, and took it around the block once, started it again after a stop to see if the problem reasserted itself, no apparent issues. I did have a minor panic attack when the fuel pump ticked over a couple of times, I thought the starter relay was auto-engaging, but so far, so good. Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major issues. Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice, it's a great list! Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:35:18 2003 Subject: RE: All I want for Christmas.... Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:35:09 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Bob Meyer" Cc: Oh... My... God. That is one gorgeous bike. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:39 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:41:18 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:40:17 -0500 From: Skip To: Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > no more likely to > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > an experienced > > one. > > what a crock. > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > one slightly elevated heartbeat. I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of the *bam*bulance. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:27:23 2003 From: To: Skip , Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:04 -0500 > > From: Skip > Date: 2003/12/03 Wed AM 09:40:17 EST > To: Tom Gimer > CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: dealership recommendation > > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > > no more likely to > > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > > an experienced > > > one. > > > > what a crock. > > > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > > one slightly elevated heartbeat. > > I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is > often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of > the *bam*bulance. > > --skip > Toss in my "me too". I can ride with a dozen experienced riders without incident. Go on the same ride with a bunch of newbies and there's almost always something that happens. Muscle memory to react to "other than normal" situations can only be gained through experience. And that takes time. Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:28:14 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Brrrr On 3 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Subject: Re: Brrrr > > I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The > Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I rode downtown to a dentist appointment this morning. I need to get some better gloves -- even with the grip warmers all the way up, the tips of my fingers were pretty chilly. I opted not to ride out to Reston for work, afterwards though. I'm sure that I could have added a layer polar fleece and been fine, but I wimped out and drove instead. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:56:50 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:56:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major >issues. Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty VF[R] friendly. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:05:22 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX ALSO... Don't forget to pick up crush washers for your drain bolt also. They should be changed every time you remove the drain bolt. Most folks don't seem to change them every time, but it's really the proper way to do it. Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an oil change: --- Oil, filters, crush washers - expended items Filter wrench of some sort (cap type is best IMO) Wrench (or socket set) for drain plug (torque wrench is best for precision) Drain pan Something to store the old oil in (some drain pans do this) Screwdriver(s) if needed to remove bodywork Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque value if you use a torque wrench --- Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:10:10 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Ron Ayers www.ronayers.com or Service Honda www.servicehonda.com are better. Both have on-line parts quotes. You need the P/N though. Luckily, I have fiches for all the VF/VFR models. Ayers - Part Number: 35850-MB0-007 Description: SWITCH ASSY. Price: $63.26 Service Honda - 35850-MB0-007 SWITCH ASSY. $64.72 Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > > > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! > >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being > >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major > >issues. > > Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty > VF[R] friendly. > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:14:07 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Chris Weaver wrote: > > Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an > oil change: > --- ... You forgot some of the most important items -- news papers and/or oil absorbing stuff like kat litter, rags for cleanup, nitrile gloves for your hands and, of course, the most important thing, a BEvERage or two for after you're done. Optional items include a hammer and a long screw driver to drive through a REALLY stuck oil filter for leverage. And, if you have a Harley, one of the official orange plastic funnel things which have been mentioned a couple times. Also, don't forget to lube the filter's O-Ring seal with some oil for a better seal and so that it comes off easier next time. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:16:44 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:15:52 -0500 To: , Skip , Tom Gimer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:27 AM 12/3/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. Frequently, yes. Not always though. It varies from person to person. > I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. As I said, I'm nowhere near above the norm in ability. I think the difference with me is that I realize that and take steps to stay well within my boundaries while I work on expanding them. For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the first week riding around my neighborhood and at the local high school parking lot after hours working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's handling and control location. Shifting, stopping, panic stopping, U-turns, "cone" weaving, slow riding, etc.. It wasn't until I was able to do the above up to the standard required to pass the MD "road test" that I even considered getting out on a major roadway. When I did, it was on back roads in Potomac...mostly 35 mph limits. A couple of hundred miles later I was back up to speed enough (I rode before, just not recently, or on a bike quite that heavy, hence the practice) to try a group ride with the MC-HOGs (new member's ride...where they expect you to have little or no group riding experience). I'm now just under 1000 miles on the clock, and I'm starting to feel a little more confident in traffic...but I still only ride when I'm well rested and the conditions are good. I don't commute on the bike and don't plan to (not having a commute helps with this! :^) I've known others who picked up a new bike and headed out on an extended road trip the next day. I suspect they are the newbies that Tom was referring to. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:17:00 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:01:37 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 05:42 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> If you are careful about things though, you are >> no more likely to >> dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as >> an experienced >> one. > >what a crock. > >send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively >low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at >the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and >one slightly elevated heartbeat. Yeah, but which is which? :^) A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better than the experienced rider who's "pushing the envelope". He'll have a lot more "room" left in the bike's performance range. I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike until I had a couple of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:27:22 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:21:41 -0500 To: Chris Weaver , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 08:03 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Chris Weaver wrote: > >Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your >manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque >value if you use a torque wrench BTW, if you have a late model H-D, there's a hex-head bolt on the bottom of the crank case. That is *NOT* the oil drain plug! *DO NOT* remove this bolt, *ever*! The above is a quote from the service manager at Battley Cycles from the recent HOGs service seminar held there. It contradicts wording in the service manual, but is based on experience. Removal of that bolt seems to result in a permanent oil leak. The bolt is there to close up a hole used to drill some of the oil passages during engine manufacture. There is no reason ever to remove it. Just in case anyone was wondering. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:40:59 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:40:51 -0500 20% on a dark interior will come out very DARK, had that on my last car. I have 35% on my car now w/ a tan interior and it's a nice shade. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: DC-Cycles >Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? >Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) > >On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. >Somewhere > > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA >laws > > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > > > Rob > >I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have >always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and >all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back >window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. > >In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm > >I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped >recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State >Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning >about the plate, too) :-) > >YMMV, etc :-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year ^[)BM-^W six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:21:32 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, fastlanecycles@XXXXXX, alanlapp@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-7,10-12,14,16,18 From: Tom Fitzpatrick Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail outlet in Woodbridge, VA. They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand opening sale. Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be Snap-On quality. Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX (www.nbracesites.com) *Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525 mike.watt@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:33:52 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <6934.1070472826.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:33:46 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" until after newbie had his first crash. After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that first learned me some careful. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:36:48 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:36:04 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA Tom Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail > outlet in Woodbridge, VA. > > They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in > the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, > etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand > opening sale. > > Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and > their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be > Snap-On quality. Speaking of Snap-On tools... Snap-on's hacksaw blades are *well* worth the extra. I used one a coouple weeks ago, and it -tore- through the metal I was cutting, awas very durable. sometimes cheap is fine. Sometimes, the extra really is worth it. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:39:46 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:39:41 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Acceleration, Real Acceleration A lesson in acceleration: ------------------------------------ First, some useful info: * One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. * Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. * A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. * With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. * At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. * Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. * In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. * Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence. * Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! * Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. * The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. * The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). Putting all of this into perspective: You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race course. That, folks, is acceleration. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:42:41 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:41:56 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" >until after newbie had his first crash. > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that >first learned me some careful. And hearing about you (or others who had similar experiences) is what did it for me. Thanks! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:50:38 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: Today's Jaunt Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:51:07 -0500 Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a great cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was in my FS jacket, jeans and Olympia gloves. The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are reminding me of my former homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. I still have this weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves but it could be my imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those Olympia gloves cut the wind but over time at speed I can see where this could be less than a complete blast. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:56:59 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:56:51 -0500 To: , "List-dc cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration At 12:39 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. That reminds me of an old Toyota ad from the 70s. They did a drag race between a Toyota Corolla and The Green Monster. The ad starts with the Toyota getting a green light and Mr. Businessman romping down on the gas. As the Toyota works up through the gears and the speedometer slowly creeps around the dial, the announcer is comparing the two vehicles. Seating comfort, gas mileage, cargo space, price, etc. all go to the Toyota...as The Green Monster sits at the start line on yellow. As the announcer builds to a frenzy, and the Corolla nears the finish line (about 5 car lengths away at almost 60 mph), The Green Monster gets the go and takes off...passing the Corolla about 2 car lengths from the finish line as the announcer says, "And in a 1/4 mile race...well, you can't have everything." Dragsters today are a lot faster than that... >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. Up at Frederick Airport's open house a few years ago I watched The Shockwave (jet powered semi) race an aerobatic plane like that. The plane started from a loop, diving down and pulling out at over 200 knots over the truck...which was stopped. As the driver saw the plane ahead of him, going down the runway at about 100', he took off...and passed the plane about 2/3 of the way down the runway (which is less than a mile long). They couldn't run The Shockwave at full speed due to the short runways there... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:00:07 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:00:04 -0500 From: Stephen Miller To: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs But can it plow snow? On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > >A lesson in acceleration: >------------------------------------ >First, some useful info: > >* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower >than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. > >* Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of >nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same >rate with 25% less energy being produced. > >* A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the >dragster's supercharger. > >* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the >fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders >run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. > >* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame >front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. > >* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the >stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water >vapor by the searing exhaust gases. > >* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an >arc welder in each cylinder. > >* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, >the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at >1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. > >* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in >the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow >cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. > >* In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an >average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the >launch acceleration approaches 8G's. > >* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading >this sentence. > >* Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! > >* Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under >load. > >* The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. > >* The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked >for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated >$1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is >4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top >speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the >run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). > >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the >RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past >the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for >both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You >keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that >sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes >you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you >just passed him. > >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. > > >That, folks, is acceleration. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:01:41 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:01:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: > >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner > better... > > > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with > "newbie" > >until after newbie had his first crash. > > > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding > along the > >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the > grinding metal > >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the > experience that > >first learned me some careful. > > And hearing about you (or others who had similar > experiences) is what did > it for me. Thanks! :^) yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of your hog. email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for miles in the saddle. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY &