From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:34:09 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:32:49 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Dang, it's cold... I hate winter. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:40:33 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "William J. Huson" , Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:40:52 -0500 Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM Subject: Dang, it's cold... > I hate winter. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:40:50 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:40:45 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Perfect riding weather today. Only mild numbness in my fingers when I rolled in at 9. At 09:32 AM 12/1/2003, William J. Huson wrote: >I hate winter. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:41:24 2003 Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 09:37:44 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > I hate winter. > > I love winter. I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl would just cause accidents ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:55:36 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: , "Troutman" Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:54:27 -0500 Yeah, balmy today for the ride to work. Milady and I decamped to West Va. for the weekend. 6" of snow and temps in the 20s. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troutman" > Perfect riding weather today. Only mild numbness in my fingers when I > rolled in at 9. > > At 09:32 AM 12/1/2003, William J. Huson wrote: > >I hate winter. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 09:58:34 2003 Subject: RE: Dang, it's cold... (but the sales are great!) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:58:23 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , I actually thought it was pretty mild out there this morning, but I wimped out and took the truck so I can't attest to the wind-chill factor. I did get out to Coleman's on Black Friday, and I think the salespeople on the floor outnumbered the browsers. Tried on a lot of gear there, and more at MFI on Saturday. The Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket/pants looks like the most feasible (price-wise) option for my pillion rider, as it offered the best fit, (apparent) best protection, and most features for the lowest price. I currently have the First Gear Kilimanjaro jacket and (some name...) pants, but MFI didn't have much First Gear selection for women. Salesperson at MFI did assure me that sale prices for next weekend's sale were also good for merchandise orders, in case they were out of a size/model. I was a little disappointed in the selection of Vanson gear for women at either retail store, alll the jackets on display seemed to be aimed at the cruiser/poser crowd and lacked even basic armor. And for heaven's sake, pink piping does not belong on a motorcycle jacket! Boot selection was an issue at both places, Coleman only had selected (cheesy) models of boots for women, and MFI was out of almost every waterproof boot model. On a pricing note; both stores had the same list prices on clothing, even though the salesperson at Coleman offered me "Black Friday prices" on some gear while I was there. I priced two items for the Interceptor; instrument light bulbs and a speedo cable. They were out of stock on the cable (I can understand, it's an old bike) but the price of 29.99 was five bucks more than Manassas Honda quoted me. Also asked about instrument panel bulbs; 3.05 apiece. Manassas Honda: 1.99. When I asked the parts guy about the difference in prices, I was assured that Coleman carried Honda factory parts, and the prices I got from Manassas were probably for after-market parts. Hmmm... Robert Verde From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:09:39 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:08:28 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Carl Schelin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > > I hate winter. > > > > > > I love winter. > > I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl > would just cause accidents ;-) > > Carl I've had accidents while nude. Expensive ones - insurance doesn't cover food, shleter, clothes, and college tuition... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:12:56 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. Yes, cold weather means less traction for performance oriented tires. Be careful rolling into the gas leaned over exiting turns, too. You'll spin the rear much easier. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:16:54 2003 Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 10:13:15 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 10:08, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 09:32, William J. Huson wrote: > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > > > > > I love winter. > > > > I can always add jackets and electronics to get warmer. A nude Carl > > would just cause accidents ;-) > > > > Carl > > I've had accidents while nude. Expensive ones - insurance doesn't cover > food, shleter, clothes, and college tuition... > Well. They were "accidents" to me. Turns out she was planning them :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:19:05 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:17:55 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Closest I came to Canada was two freezing years in Michigan. Delivering newspapers in a howling wind at 22 below zero cured me of any affetction for winter. It was so dang cold when you hocked a loogie it would be crackling ice before it hit the snow. Screw that, give me coastal swamps and 80+ temps with nice sweaty humidity. Swamp rat Bill Julian Halton wrote: > Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to > twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought > what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh > jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William J. Huson" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM > Subject: Dang, it's cold... > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:26:25 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 10:31:08 -0500 What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? The car radar on 295 in DC got me. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:35:55 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 07:35:37 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: License plate spray To: Michael Lynch , "'DCCycles'" Their was an ad for it in this week's City Paper. --- Michael Lynch wrote: > What ever happened to the person who said they were > buying the > anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a > report? > > The car radar on 295 in DC got me. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:36:52 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:36:52 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: License plate spray At 10:31 AM 12/1/2003, Michael Lynch wrote: >What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the >anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? > >The car radar on 295 in DC got me. If you believe Dateline, none of those products work at all. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:38:51 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:37:22 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... At 09:32 AM 12/1/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >I hate winter. It was a little chilly (38 or so) yesterday morning (particularly on I-270) when I left for the HOG ride up to Westminster for lunch, but it wasn't bad at all for the ride home afterwards (about 50 I think). Everyone else had heated gear on, but a couple of layers topped with leather were enough for me. I'm a mammal. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 10:52:22 2003 Subject: Wet Weather Report From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 10:48:43 -0500 Speaking of reports. I wore my Joe Rocket gear home Friday in the rain. Lovely rain. Wet rain :-) Gear: Full face helmet, bandana around chin, Joe Rocket Alter Ego jacket, Joe Rocket Revolution pants, Wal*Mart plastic bags, Totes. My only complaint is with the neck closures. On the TourMaster rain gear they use velcro closures for the arms and neck. With those I can pretty much seal the openings. I used the bandana to block the rain from getting to my neck but the back tire spray ran down and into my neck opening. At Springfield I was feeling a cold trickle going down my breastbone. By Lorton it was pooling around my belly. By Dale City it had run down into my lap. When I got home I was dry everywhere except in that line down my front and into my lap. Next time I'll wrap the bandana around my neck. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:16:27 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:14:49 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec795c2414760b24c5f35020bc23c355e3d2350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > >What ever happened to the person who said they were buying the > >anti-photo-radar spray? Did you buy it? Is there a report? > > > >The car radar on 295 in DC got me. > > If you believe Dateline, none of those products work at all. [Dave] I haven't read, seen, or heard anything more recent then about '01, and I have no personal experience with any of the devices other than the Valentine one radar & laser detector. There was a show on TLC which tested some items. a couple of jammers - radar and laser, plus some of the plate blockers. I've also seen a couple of print articles by moto rags, electronic mags, etc. The tag bracket mount laser jammer is apparetnly _the_$hit_, and that's a good thing because I got lasered in the wife's car over the weekend. The wife's car moves barely faster than a two toed sloth, so the only ticket I'm gonna get in that thing is obstructing traffic. The passive jammers / chirp reflectors and what have you are vaporware - they do nothing. The active jammers, which you used to be able to buy for about $600 absolutely, positively destroyed all the effective radar guns in service on X and K band, but not Ka band. I recall that the anti laser plate blockers also worked to a limited degree, they cut the range that you could be read significantly, but not permanently. I recall reading somewhere that the spray did have some effectiveness, but I don't recall the source. Again, I have no personal experience with the above items except the V1. I have a good friend who is a mechanic at a major Ford dealer. There was a cruiser in for some sort of work, not a state trooper... The topic of BS^H^H err discussion went over to radar detectors. The officer conceded that VG2 could pick up most detectors .. .except the V1. As luck would have it _another_ vehicle in the service bay _just_happened to have a V1 all ready to go.... Sure enough, according to my mechanic friend, not so much as a peep off the VG2 for as close as they could get them... For those of you interested in that bit of trivia for STRICTLY informational purposes... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 11:36:49 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "William J. Huson" , Julian Halton Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dang, it's cold... Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:37:13 -0500 HA! I slept on a frozen lake in Boy Scouts on year. I didn't have a thermometer, but when I peed it was was frozen before it hit the ground or shortly there after. Rob On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 10:17:55 -0500, William J. Huson wrote > Closest I came to Canada was two freezing years in Michigan. Delivering > newspapers in a howling wind at 22 below zero cured me of any > affetction for winter. It was so dang cold when you hocked a loogie > it would be crackling ice before it hit the snow. Screw that, give > me coastal swamps and 80+ temps with nice sweaty humidity. > > Swamp rat Bill > > Julian Halton wrote: > > > Ahem...With all due respect after living in Ottawa, Canada for close to > > twenty years I woke up today and stepped outside with a T-shirt and thought > > what righteous weather. I rode this weekend in jeans, my Fieldsheer Mesh > > jacket and Olympia gloves. My feet, neck and hands were a tad chilly but I > > was able to ride around DC even after sundown. The weird thing I have > > noticed is it seems like my rear tire has less traction on the road....a few > > times I did not downshift smoothly and felt the wheel jump. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William J. Huson" > > To: > > Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 9:32 AM > > Subject: Dang, it's cold... > > > > > I hate winter. > > > > > > > > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 14:43:43 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 11:43:39 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel American^[)BM-^Rs BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is it a decent carrier to use? Thanks, -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:47:45 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:48:07 -0500 As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I get this done and save some dollars? Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:51:27 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 12:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I do and no complaints yet. I have not had any claims. They insure the less desirables, like me. --- Sean Steele wrote: > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > American^[)BM-^Rs BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is > it a decent carrier to use? > > Thanks, > > -Sean > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:53:29 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 15:53:11 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Ask someone mechanically on the list to show/teach you how to do it yourself. Buy the oil and the instructor a six pacl of their favorite liquid refreshment and......viola, you've got your oil changed. :-) Scooter (mechanically challenged so, don't ask me. ;-)) In a message dated 12/1/2003 3:48:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the > corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 15:54:19 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:08:59 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: The C factor On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers I change my oil about every 3-4k miles (more frequent when racing/riding hard) and do it myself. Cost is just oil/filter :-) Do it yourself or find a friend to do it for you/show you how if you don't know how. I always offer up my garage to help if you someone needs it. If you don't have one already, get a factory service manual for your bike. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:10:54 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: The C factor To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This is where I like to insert my favorite technical website link. Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how to change your oil: http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm (no that's not my page) Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:11:18 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:10:48 -0500 Like everyone else said, learn to do it yourself. On most bikes it pretty darn easy. In addition, though, read your owners manual. It will tell you how often to change oil. Every 2K is a waste of money unless you're spending most weekends at the race track. > > From: "Julian Halton" > Date: 2003/12/01 Mon PM 03:48:07 EST > To: > Subject: The C factor > > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:15:43 2003 Subject: Oli change by the numbers (was: The C factor) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:15:40 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Outstanding link. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Chris Weaver [mailto:chris_vtr@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:11 PM This is where I like to insert my favorite technical website link. Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how to change your oil: http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:19:35 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 16:16:10 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" > I do and no complaints yet. I have not had any > claims. They insure the less desirables, like me. > > > --- Sean Steele wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > > American's BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? I've been wondering why my rates have been going up, then I remembered Mark is a recent DC immigrant. And I have no moving violations or accidents on my record. No claims on my Markel policy either. They're one of the few insurance companies that actually wants to insure bikes in DC, if their premiums are any guide. I also worked with State Farm, but they only wanted to do a package deal with the cage, and their cage rates are higher, so it would have been a wash. State Farm's bike rates were slightly lower at the time. This was two years ago though. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:27:02 2003 Subject: Re: The C factor From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 16:23:23 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 16:10, Chris Weaver wrote: > This is where I like to insert my favorite technical > website link. > > Let G.I. Joe's fanatical drill sargeant teach you how > to change your oil: > http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm > (no that's not my page) > Hmm, I dunno. I think watching Barbie change the oil would be more interesting ;-) I'll have to check the site and see who they have doing a valve job. Thanks. > Chris Weaver > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:39:12 2003 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:39:07 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: The C factor To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Barbie does valve adjustments. http://users.tmok.com/~kpaxton/barbievalves.html Leon. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Hmm, I dunno. I think watching Barbie change the oil > would be more > interesting ;-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:40:26 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 16:39:12 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor Lemme see - oil change. If you're not sure where the filter and drain plug is, purchase and aftermarket manual (Haynes - Clymers?) for your bike, purcahse correct filter and oil, probably 4 quarts of 10w/40w, locate tools to do trhe job, and proceed to wrench. If your close to Annandale VA I'm home most every day and have many tools and a bike lift or two. Bill Julian Halton wrote: > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 16:48:35 2003 Subject: Re: The C factor From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Dec 2003 16:44:56 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-01 at 16:39, Leon Begeman wrote: > Barbie does valve adjustments. > http://users.tmok.com/~kpaxton/barbievalves.html > Leon. > I think I prefer DI Joe, or maybe Barbie should stick to oil changes. She takes blurry pictures and doesn't like getting her hands dirty. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:03:58 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:03:31 -0500 Change the oil yourself. Lots of arguments about which oil. I don't care what you use, but I use higher (not highest) quality automotive oil (not synthetic) with appropriate SAE ratings and weights. You can look up which non-OEM filters fit your bike so you don't pay the outrageous bike shop price.... example list: http://www.micapeak.com/bike/ST1300/FilterXRef.html Since I never spend > $2 a quart (and buy by the case) and I never spend > $6 a filter....a change costs me less than $13 and half an hour of my time, and is multiplexed with consuming a beer. Oh yeah, every 2,000 miles is a load of sh!t. 3,500 is appropriately conservative.... --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 3:48 PM Subject: The C factor > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:06:14 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Chris Weaver" Cc: Subject: Re: The C factor Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:05:54 -0500 Great Link! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Weaver" > http://bongo.www8.50megs.com/oil_change.htm From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 17:52:24 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: License plate spray Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 17:51:36 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c260999644499e16d308baf7c7a4c5ca29f05350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >.except the V1. As luck would have it _another_ vehicle in the service bay >_just_happened to have a V1 all ready to go.... Sure enough, according to my mechanic >friend, not so much as a peep off the VG2 for as close as they could get them... >For those of you interested in that bit of trivia for STRICTLY informational purposes... Ya gets what ya pays for (on a good day) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 19:42:38 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: Markel American BikelinE Motorcycle Insurance Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 19:39:13 -0500 > Does anyone on the list have experience with Markel > American's BikeLine Motorcycle Insurance program? Is > it a decent carrier to use? Markel is the only people we could find to insure my NSR250 without any questions...gotta love that!!!! Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 23:41:59 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:31:19 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 03:48 PM 12/1/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: >2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an oil change for the >'02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than some of the >cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast. Yeah, that does seem high. I got mine changed at Battleys (H-D FLSTCI) for about $50 a couple of weeks ago. That included the chrome oil filter. Other than changes that coincide, or are included, with scheduled maintenance that I'll let them do, I figure on doing my own from now on. Should cost half or less than what that one cost, for the filter and oil. I'll give myself a really good price on the labor... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 1 23:42:02 2003 Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:43:42 -0500 To: "Jon Strang" , "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 05:03 PM 12/1/03 -0500, Jon Strang wrote: >Oh yeah, every 2,000 miles is a load of sh!t. 3,500 is appropriately >conservative.... You could be right, but in chatting with one of the longtime mechanics at Battley's (been there something over 13 years I hear) I was told that one of the bikes he works on there had oil changes every 1000 miles (more frequently than H-D suggests BTW) and when he opened up the engine at something over 100,000 miles, it looked "pretty good in there". Whether that would still have been true with 3500 mile changes I have no idea. I figure that changing too often can only hurt the wallet, not the bike. Changing not often enough will hurt both. I'll err on the side of caution I think. Besides, it's something you can do with your bike on a rainy day. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 08:45:46 2003 Subject: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:45:34 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:03:42 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:02:31 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues I believe Crossroads has a trailer and will pick up the bike. I can't vouch for the speed and accuracy, thay had mine for close to 3 months and returned it with several analomies like failure to torque the crank nut which caused a total non-run failure when the timing gear spit off. Managed to lose my spare ignition key too... Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:32:18 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Verde, Robert" , Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:30:14 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verde, Robert" > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. .... > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just right. If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a 98+ VFR? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:32:44 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 09:32:39 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >a halt. Double damn. That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:43:46 2003 Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:43:38 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Paul Wilson" , I've had a few problems in the past six months or so with the kill switch working "too" effectively, and not allowing the bike to start even with the switch in the "on" position. Since the starter button is just below this switch, there could be some problem with with the switch cluster or the wiring harness to the right clip-on. I think I'll try the whack-a-solenoid (relay?) trick first, then unhook the wiring and see if I can trace the problem. However, given that the starter stays engaged even with the key out of the bike, I think it's got more to do with something making a direct connection between the battery and the starter, which would point to the relay as the root of the problem. It's a '83 VF750F, and the only problems I have had with starting in the past have had more to do with the starter *not* engaging unless the gears were positively in neutral. Had to rock it back and forth a few times when the green light was on, to free up whatever was preventing the starter from hooking up. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:30 AM To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just right. If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a 98+ VFR? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 09:47:46 2003 Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:47:39 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Troutman" , They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got pretty hot pretty fast. However, it does suggest other potential problems with the starter, if it was creating that much of a load. The poles on both batteries are fine, each has color-coded caps and the cables are also marked. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:33 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >a halt. Double damn. That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:04:08 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:02:59 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Troutman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Troutman wrote: > At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on > >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to > >a halt. Double damn. > > That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I > assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! > Then you've never had the thrill of trying to jump batterys with a cheesy set of *emergency* jumper cables which are so light gauged they can barely conduct enough amperage to fire up the headlights. Back in the days when cars had metal bumpers I would run my car up and touch bumpers with the dead car and use both my medium gauge cables to run + to +. Worked like a champ, but you had to make sure the bumper touch was solid or the sparks would weld them together - eek! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:06:43 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:05:32 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues Had a dead switch prob with the harley about a month ago. Cure, hose the switchs with CRC 6-56 (better'n WD-40) and work them on/off several times. Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > I've had a few problems in the past six months or so with the kill switch working "too" effectively, and not allowing the bike to start even with the switch in the "on" position. Since the starter button is just below this switch, there could be some problem with with the switch cluster or the wiring harness to the right clip-on. I think I'll try the whack-a-solenoid (relay?) trick first, then unhook the wiring and see if I can trace the problem. > > However, given that the starter stays engaged even with the key out of the bike, I think it's got more to do with something making a direct connection between the battery and the starter, which would point to the relay as the root of the problem. > > It's a '83 VF750F, and the only problems I have had with starting in the past have had more to do with the starter *not* engaging unless the gears were positively in neutral. Had to rock it back and forth a few times when the green light was on, to free up whatever was preventing the starter from hooking up. > > Robert > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:30 AM > To: Verde, Robert; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cold starting blues > > > > Sounds like you have a dodgy starter switch or starter relay. The VF's > starter will sometimes stay on unless you jiggle the starter switch just > right. > > If it's like most bikes, there is no solenoid per se. A solenoid that > connects juice to the starter motor and engages a gear. There is a starter > relay somewhere in the neighborhood of the battery. Interceptor? Is this a > 98+ VFR? > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:09:11 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:08:00 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Verde, Robert" CC: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues HA! Just what I suspected - cheesy cable syndrome. Toss those junkers and invest in 4 gauge cables. Bill "Verde, Robert" wrote: > They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got pretty hot pretty fast. > > However, it does suggest other potential problems with the starter, if it was creating that much of a load. > > The poles on both batteries are fine, each has color-coded caps and the cables are also marked. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 9:33 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Cold starting blues > > At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > >Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on > >the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to > >a halt. Double damn. > > That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I > assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:28:56 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:16:51 -0500 Was the Dakota on? >From: "Verde, Robert" >To: "Troutman" , >Subject: RE: Cold starting blues >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 09:47:39 -0500 > >They were inexpensive cables that came with a roadside rescue kit, probably >weren't more than 14 or 16 gauge braided wire inside. The Dakota battery >was turning over the bike engine through ten feet of this wire, and it got >pretty hot pretty fast. _________________________________________________________________ >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, you^[)BM-^Rll find a range of helpful holiday info here. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 10:40:48 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 10:39:52 -0500 From: Skip To: "Verde, Robert" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues "Verde, Robert" wrote: [snip] > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter ground away despite my > turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out > after only a little while, further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it > a jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on the switch. > Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to a halt. Double damn. I suspect the switch or the relay. for the switch, try a little precussive maintenance followed by WD-40 or the like and some more rapping. for the relay, some tapping may "fix" it, but if it does, it needs to be replaced. Good Luck! --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 12:55:14 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 12:54:28 -0500 To: Troutman , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Cold starting blues At 09:32 AM 12/2/03 -0500, Troutman wrote: >At 08:45 AM 12/2/2003, Verde, Robert wrote: >>Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with no hand on >>the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing everything to >>a halt. Double damn. > >That can't be a good thing. I've never heard of jumper cables melting. I >assume they were on +/+ and -/-. Maybe your poles are mismarked! It means there's probably a short somewhere I think...or the cables are severely undersized. I've had cables get hot enough to soften the insulation when cranking a large motor with light duty cables for more than a few seconds. Heat is a byproduct of resistance and current. If the bike's normal starting current shouldn't melt the cables, then there's something else that's increasing the current draw...and a short sounds like a good place to start...especially since the battery seemed weak. Yes, it could be an aged battery, but it could also be one that's trying to feed a high resistance short as well as the normal draw. Of course, with the fuses staying intact, either the short is bypassing them somehow, the short has enough resistance to keep the current below the fuse ratings, or it isn't a short and the cables were probably just too light for the job. With a weak battery you won't be using the cables to quick charge the battery and then drawing from the battery to start...the majority of the current will be going through the cables right to the starter, and that could be enough to melt light duty cables. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 13:43:40 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'd like to ask you a question if I may... ===== "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not last if we do not learn to forgive. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 14:13:19 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0500 Matthew, We (wife and I) own a '93 ZX-6E. That is the first year of the current model, IIRC. E1, I guess. If that is of any use to you, fire away. Regards, Perry >From: matthew patton >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) > >I'd like to ask you a question if I may... > >===== >"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in >Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 > >Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this >happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not >last if we do not learn to forgive. > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now >http://companion.yahoo.com/ > _________________________________________________________________ Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment, video game reviews, and more here. http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 15:32:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Verde, Robert'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Cold starting blues Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 15:37:37 -0500 I had the exact same thing happen on my Honda 300EX quad, only the battery was good and it kept going, and going, and going. I rapped on the starter solenoid with a screwdriver handle and it worked. The cause there was a drowned, and subsequently corroded solenoid. Replacement was necessary. HTH Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Verde, Robert [SMTP:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 8:46 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Cold starting blues > > I got motivated this morning when I saw how beautiful it was outside. > Geared up, packed bag, headed out to start the bike. Bit slow to turn > over, (I suspect its about time for a new battery) and it didn't fire up > right away. > > Gave it a moment, tried again, and the starter didn't stop! The starter > ground away despite my turning off the ignition, the kill switch, and even > kicked it into gear briefly. Battery gave out after only a little while, > further proof I need a new one, so I went and got the truck to give it a > jump start. Hooked up the cables, and the starter whirred into life with > no hand on the switch. Damn. Then the jumper cables melted, bringing > everything to a halt. Double damn. > > Any tips I can try before I price towing the bike to Crossroads Cycle? > (Even though I have a truck, it's a bit of a pain to take off the truck > cap, not to mention loading the 500+ pounds of Interceptor into the back.) > I checked the main fuse, it's still intact, but no lights at all. I > suspect it's something to do with the starter solenoid being stuck "on," > and possible a good rap with a screwdriver would free it, but I dunno. > > And it looks like a nice day for a ride, too, despite the temps. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 15:39:59 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 12:39:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX i've owned a '94 zx6e in the past. maybe i can help. --- matthew patton wrote: > I'd like to ask you a question if I may... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:31:27 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:31:19 -0500 From: Kendall Clark To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dealership recommendation Reply-To: kendall@XXXXXX Folks, I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and I'm anxious to buy a new bike. I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good selection. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Best, Kendall Clark -- Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:42:42 2003 From: "lisagoddard" To: , Subject: ZX-6 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:42:05 -0500 Hi Matt, I had a ZX6D for a while and loved it. The trans was starting to go so I sold it and got the VFR. Lisa Goddard From: "Perry Coleman" To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0500 Matthew, We (wife and I) own a '93 ZX-6E. That is the first year of the current model, IIRC. E1, I guess. If that is of any use to you, fire away. Regards, Perry >From: matthew patton >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) > >I'd like to ask you a question if I may... > >===== >"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in >Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 > >Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this >happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not >last if we do not learn to forgive. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:47:31 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:30 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the area, the list, and the hobby. You picked a chilly time to get into it, though... I don't know squat about HD dealerships, although there are a bunch of Harley riders on the list. I've been to Clinton Cycles (http://www.clintoncycles.com/, out on MD-5 just outside the Beltway), and they seem reasonably friendly. They seem to carry about ten Triumph standards/cruisers in stock at a time, but I can't comment on their test ride policy or how much pressure they exert. Maybe I'll swing by and ask for a test ride some day this week (they're sort of on my way home) and let you know. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 19:54:59 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:53:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c4005482ca5abb79d35192b9eabf7d38350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Kendall decloaked: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. [Dave] Welcome to the sport. To be clear, you say 1: You're new to DC 2: You're new to motorcycling 3: you are looking for a new bike Are we on the same page so far ? > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is possessing you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not get a new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on that list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a theoretical 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have a bike available ;-) Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. Used bikes - even 1 or 2 years - are MUCH cheaper to insure than new ones. Plus, you can afford "more bike" used, for your dollar. HTH Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:06:42 2003 From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:06:31 -0500 To: DC Cycles Kendall, Welcome to the fold. I haven't been there, but I heard that the Manayunk Triumph dealer is very happy to give test rides. You should go down there when you're in town. I love that Thruxton. It's quite a looker. As far as HD, I believe Washington HD in Maryland has a demo fleet. They also seem to have decent stock. On Dec 2, 2003, at 7:31 PM, Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph > in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, > so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with > either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > > Best, > Kendall Clark > -- > Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. > > sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:22:11 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: 20W40 vs. 10W30 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, in theory, would hold up better in an older bike engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few months in cold temps? Hehe. In theory, of course. -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 20:44:03 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:43:35 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph > cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm > wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? Welcome. Clinton Cycles is the only Triumph dealer in the greater DC area, according to the flier I received today. They do give test rides, but not on every specific model. They have a big open house this weekend as well. They were very, very good for service up until a year ago, but they've had some personnel turnover recently -- don't know if it has affected the service department. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:01:13 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:00:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > Kendall decloaked: > > > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean > a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is > possessing > you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely > to > at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not > get > a > new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on > that > list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a > theoretical > 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat > bike, > and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of > gloves, > one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich > or > comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what > you > like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without > a > bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still > have > a > bike available ;-) > Let me second that one. My hawg is still in the shop and yet I'm still able to enjoy the chilly morning rides (especially after the gym) on my Suzuki. It's getting harder and harder to convince myself to sell this thing with only one car in the house. > Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. This is a tough one to follow (IMO). After spending the past couple of years getting the cheap stuff and then upgrading, let me tell you. Save the money. Get the good stuff up front. We'll _all_ contribute to that education if you want (that's why I keep posting my opinions on the gear I buy). And pay attention to what Dave said above WRT gear. It's sound advise. > HTH > > Dave Yates > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:12:13 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the club. Perfect weather for riding. Got your long johns? They won't do you any good ;-) > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > Note: While I visit East Coast what seems like a lot, my comments are based on summer 2002 when I was shopping for a bike. 1) The dealers down here don't offer test rides except during demo days (that'd be Patriot in Fairfax, Whitts in Manassas, and East Coast in Dumfries). Don't bother with Patriot though. As of 2002 they didn't sell outside the 703 area code. They used to rent bikes but I heard they stopped. 2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. 3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had sold signs on them. > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > What Dave said about not buying new. My wife got a new one and dropped it just before the 600 mile mark. A couple of scratches but no real damage. (Wasn't there a new Bandit that got dropped as well and potentially totalled? Man, my memory sucks :-) > Best, > Kendall Clark Good luck. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:24:49 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:24:49 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation I'll second and third the recommendations for good gear. Buy it! Wear it! Every single goddamn time! Good places to buy gear: http://www.newenough.com/ http://www.aerostich.com/ These are great places to buy gear: Aerostich for, well, Aerostich suits, New Enough for everything else except helmets. Try http://www.helmetshop.com/ and http://www.helmetcity.com/ for those, but I can't vouch for those sites. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:25:50 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Brrrr To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Be ready for the morning. Anticipated temp: 26 degrees Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) Gonna be chilly. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:45:46 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:26:35 -0500 To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:31 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Kendall Clark wrote: >As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > >I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good >selection. I've had pretty good luck with Rockville Harley-Davidson (Battley Cycles). I got my Heritage there in late September. They have a fair number of bikes in stock and get them in regularly. They know their product. They know it will sell, so they don't push...they are there, they are friendly, they are willing to help you or let you alone as you prefer. They sponsor a really good HOGs club (Montgomery County HOGs) with over 600 members at the moment. They run some rides outside of the HOGs sometimes (I went on one to Arlington Cemetery on Veteran's Day for the wreath laying) and they are pretty laid back about everything (I was a little surprised at the service folks suggesting that much of the regular maintenance could be done by the owner during an evening maintenance seminar they held for the local HOGs). I don't know about test rides, as I didn't ask for one. I do know that Frederick H-D does rentals, and that they have a $50 deal for just a few hours if you want an extended "test ride". They like you to have recent big bike experience though (something I didn't have until I picked up my own bike...hadn't owned a bike in a decade). The $50 includes insurance and helmet. Check out their site at: http://www.hdoffrederick.com/default.htm Battley sells other kinds of bikes too. Buell, BMW, Ducati, and some Yamaha metric cruisers. They also have some Yamaha ATVs. They have a fair selection of gear too (helmets, leathers and other protective stuff, boots, gloves, shirts, heated stuff, etc.). If you want to check them out, this Saturday (the 6th from 10-4) might be a good time. It's their holiday open house. If it's anything like the last one I went to, there will be free burgers and dogs, lots of people around (i.e. customers you can ask for opinions and stories), and some discounts (some pretty good (like 50%) if you need the items covered) on in-stock stuff. They are also taking donations of canned food or money for the Manna Food Center and "Mother" Christine, and running a toy drive. Their web page is at: http://www.battley.com/ MC-HOG is at: http://www.mchog.net/ I don't own the place, or work there. I'm just a satisfied customer. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:45:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:47:42 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:53 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >Kendall decloaked: >> I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like >> the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is >> which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > >[Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean >a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is >possessing >you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to >at least scrape in the next 6 months? While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. I dropped my Honda 700 Saber once after bumping a Chrysler New Yorker in the tail light (bent front fender, broken clutch lever, both easily replaced) but that was after owning it for almost 2 years. I haven't dropped my H-D so far, and I'm working hard to make sure it stays that way, but time will tell. The above is not trying at all to suggest that I'm God's gift to motorcycling with super-human balance and reflexes. That's not me at all. That's an ex-girlfriend's gymnast brother (who was doing block-long wheelies 5 days after getting on a motorcycle for the first time). I'm the other guy. The one who learns physical things slower than average...but who knows it and so takes things slowly and carefully. If you get more bike than you are ready for, and then go out and ride like you are a pro on a race track, yes, you are likely to dump it in short order. If you are careful about things though, you are no more likely to dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as an experienced one. Stuff happens to everyone, but you can avoid adding to the problem with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they are well determined. > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance (the stuff based mostly on your riding history) the only real bike factors my insurance company seemed to care about was bike engine size and whether there were any "performance enhancements" added. The smaller and the fewer the cheaper. A stock Sportster would be cheaper to insure than my stock Softail. It would also be cheaper for comprehensive and collision, since it costs less than half as much to start with. Other insurance companies may have other rules though. >If I had a theoretical >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have >a bike available ;-) Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. If you could pay cash for all that stuff you could just get liability insurance and "self-insure" for the rest...with a loan you will be required to carry full coverage by the lender. You'd probably also get a lot more "wrenching" education that way too. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 21:51:54 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:51:48 -0500 To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 At 05:22 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Sean Steele wrote: >What's the main difference in these oils? Viscosity (thickness). >Which one, >in theory, would hold up better in an older bike >engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few >months in cold temps? What grade does the bike manufacturer recommend for the temps we are likely to get in the next few months? (i.e. have you RTFM yet? :^) Based on the last 23 years here I'd guess that the next few months will see temps between 70 and 10 degrees, with the average being around 35-40. Whole weeks in the 20s aren't unheard of in December thru February. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:00:53 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:59:43 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Sean Steele CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 Whatever viscosity is recommended by the bike manufacturer for the temperature range you'll be operating in. I seem to recall Japanese UJM engines like 10W40W for summer climes, but 10W30W might be the choice for chilly weather. Never heard of 20W40W. My Harley uses 20W50W, so gooey it's hard to crank at freezing temps. Not a great choice for winter. Bill Sean Steele wrote: > What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, > in theory, would hold up better in an older bike > engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few > months in cold temps? > > Hehe. In theory, of course. > > -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:01:33 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:00:24 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791536998d041c9bd1e7536efab87d1cc6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike B points out (and reminds Dave): > While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that > dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never > dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, > and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. [Dave] This is a good point which I alluded to, but didn't really clarify. Lots of folks here advocate getting a POS beater, which I _do_not_ agree with. You should get something that interests you, which you will want to hold on to for more than 6 months. I started on a v45 Magna, and within 1 year had a ZX11 which was then the fastest production bike money could buy... And much to my bank account's chagrin, that was not enough. It was but a scant 15 months or so before I started down the Dark Path to adding MORE POWER. Neither have ever been down with me as a pilot. If you have the discipline - and ONLY if, to respect the power, then, and ONLY then should you consider a bike with really decent power and handling as a 1st or 2nd bike. Evaluate that for yourself honestly. you can avoid adding to the problem > with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out > where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and > feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they > are well determined. > > > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. > > That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. > On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance ... [Dave] I wouldn't even consider liability only, especially as a noob... Unless I could insure myself.... > >If I had a theoretical > >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, > >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, > >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or > >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you > >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a > >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have > >a bike available ;-) > > Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:02:32 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 06:12 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went >shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but >that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a >Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. Battley's always has some sportsters around. They may even have one or two 2003's left. They are selling at MSRP these days too. >3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of >new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had >sold signs on them. Battley's has at least a couple of used police models for sale. They were traded in by the local departments for new bikes. They strip the radios, flashing lights and sirens off, and swap the police tires for civilian ones, but that's about it. For anyone who doesn't know (I didn't) the police tires are much stiffer in the sidewalls than the civilian ones...so they can go up a square curb without damage to the rims was the reason I heard. The police seat is great for solo, but lousy if you want to ride two-up. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:13:05 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of > Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); I don't think any Triumph, not even a brand new one, would make a good first bike for anyone who is not comfortable turning wrenches. I only know five people with the new generation of Triumphs, and for the most part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not bashing Triumph at all; god knows I've got a soft spot for any British bike. Just stating a fact... a very very high maintenance bike for a beginner. cheers, patti (insert constantly growing list of broken British stuff here) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 22:37:59 2003 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running > joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain > the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not geez, what do these people own? I had no problems (that weren't my own doing) on my 1st generation Hinkley. I can easily round up another 5 who can likewise show no complaints. The Hinkley Triumphs (91+) are no less reliable as Kawasaki's. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 2 23:39:10 2003 Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:38:37 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:04:21 2003 Subject: Re: Brrrr From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Dec 2003 08:00:38 -0500 I had the gerbings on half to two-thirds heat most of the way in. Just like with the chaps, my thighs are the only body part that got pretty cold (heated jacket liner and gloves but not pants liner). I figure that once I'm on the Harley again, I'll be able to wear the quilted liner in the pants and will have no problems the rest of the winter. Yesterday I baked in my gear so I mounted my controller to the windshield support struts. I was able to easily adjust the temps and when we slowed down dropped the temps down to about a quarter. The FogCity shield is f***ing awesome. I could see my breath inside the helmet with the shield closed and no condensation. Last night I wore my sunglasses too and found they were fogging up but the shield wasn't. Just a little annoying. After having used it for the past three weeks, there are a couple of minute scratches on the inside shield. I expect that I'll follow another rider's recommendation and just get a new one each year. I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I have a doctor's appointment today and will stop by Crossroads Cycles to get a picture of his Honda Chopper on the way. His "coil box" looks like a good idea for my project bike and I'm visiting Leon's welder Saturday for some fabrication. Later, Carl On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:25, Carl Schelin wrote: > Be ready for the morning. > > Anticipated temp: 26 degrees > Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) > > Gonna be chilly. > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:23:41 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:23:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Fwd: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack To: DC Cycles forwarded per todd peer's request: --- "Todd P." wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:42:22 -0500 > From: "Todd P." > Subject: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack > To: WSDYMF@XXXXXX > > I plan to put the BackPack on eBay unless I can sell it > locally. Anyone? > > Also, I have a couple of jackets I'd like to get rid of. > They will go to > the local Goodwill if I can't sell them. Really hate to > do that as the BMW > Jacket is in damned good shape! > > If someone could forward to DC-Cycles, I'd appreciate it. > > Contact: combat_tourer@XXXXXX > > Thanks. T > > Jackets__________________ > $30 - Black Darien Jacket(XL). > Needs heat taping repair so it isn't completely > water proof. However, for fair weather riding > this jacket is excellent protection > $150 - BMW Savanah Jacket with Gortex Liner (US size 54R) > for > big body. Left arm at crash pad has been used > but the jacket is still very useable. Original > cost was over $600 and $200+ of that was the > liner. You will NOT get wet with this liner, > it's awsome! > > BackPack____________________ > > $50 > This is a used but like brand new internal frame backpack > produced by > Eastern Mountain Sports, a high end outdoor supply store. > This backpack is > totally adjustable to fit your body size. It has > adjustable torso lengths, > waist and shoulder straps. This is a multi-day backpack > with 5000 cubic > inches of capacity. This backpack has only been used one > time and is a > perfectly decent item to add to your adventure camping > gear, or as an > adventurers luggage system! > > Overall: > > 5000 cubic inches > Color: Blue with Maroon > Material: 500/600 Denier CORDURA, nylon extension. > Weight: 5.5Lbs > Adjustable Hip belt to 48" waist > Internal Frame - Removable molded plastic with separate > padding > No Rain Fly but is designed for wet weather (Scotchgaurd) > Top Opening Main Compartment > Front Opening Lower / Sleeping Bag Compartment > Top Flap Pocket - 2, exterior and interior > Two Water Bottle Side Pockets > Multiple strap loops for securing gear > > Other Features: > > Easy access top opening > Heavy duty S-shape padded shoulder straps > Thoracic strap and D rings on shoulder straps > Padded hip belt with adjustable buckled webbing straps > Secure adjustable webbing straps on both sides > Chest buckle straps > Air Flow padded back panel > Padded lower back support suspension > Webbing straps for attaching extra items > Thumb loops for attaching tools, walking stick or ice axes ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:31:50 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX find a good service manual on ebay and pick up some oil and filters in quantity. oil changes are simple.... just don't overtighten the drain plug. get in the habit of doing regular checks of oil level/condition, tire pressure/condition, final drive; and with your japanese inline 4 you'll likely avoid visits to the dealer except for milestone services. -- tg --- Julian Halton wrote: > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some > brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to > me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression > they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change > out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an > oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than > some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so > in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the > corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 08:42:51 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > If you are careful about things though, you are > no more likely to > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > an experienced > one. what a crock. send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and one slightly elevated heartbeat. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:05:12 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:05:40 -0500 I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:13:41 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:13:06 -0500 Maybe this will help. http://home.pcisys.net/~bpc/auto_law/tint/tint_md.html Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:15:39 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning about the plate, too) :-) YMMV, etc :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:15:57 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:15:35 -0500 http://www.autotrim-md.com/tinting.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:26:09 2003 Subject: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:25:59 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Just an update on the starting problems I had had with the Interceptor: After work yesterday, I bought an inexpensive pair of jumper cables, and pushed the bike to a lighted spot next to my truck. Hooking up the cables the starter came to life again, so I hastily un-hooked cables before I started more experiments in melting rubber... I found the starter relay (right behind the main fuse I was checking yesterday, d'oh!), and gave it a sharp rap on the base with the Leatherman. Then, hooked up the jumper cables again to hear... blessed silence! Whoo-hoo! I left the cables on for a few minutes to give it a bit of a charge (truck was off during this exercise, based on tips from the list) and when I tried the starter, the bike turned over twice and fired right up. What a feeling of relief! I ran it for about ten minutes, and took it around the block once, started it again after a stop to see if the problem reasserted itself, no apparent issues. I did have a minor panic attack when the fuel pump ticked over a couple of times, I thought the starter relay was auto-engaging, but so far, so good. Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major issues. Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice, it's a great list! Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:35:18 2003 Subject: RE: All I want for Christmas.... Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:35:09 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Bob Meyer" Cc: Oh... My... God. That is one gorgeous bike. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:39 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 09:41:18 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:40:17 -0500 From: Skip To: Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > no more likely to > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > an experienced > > one. > > what a crock. > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > one slightly elevated heartbeat. I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of the *bam*bulance. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:27:23 2003 From: To: Skip , Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:04 -0500 > > From: Skip > Date: 2003/12/03 Wed AM 09:40:17 EST > To: Tom Gimer > CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: dealership recommendation > > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > > no more likely to > > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > > an experienced > > > one. > > > > what a crock. > > > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > > one slightly elevated heartbeat. > > I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is > often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of > the *bam*bulance. > > --skip > Toss in my "me too". I can ride with a dozen experienced riders without incident. Go on the same ride with a bunch of newbies and there's almost always something that happens. Muscle memory to react to "other than normal" situations can only be gained through experience. And that takes time. Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:28:14 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Brrrr On 3 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Subject: Re: Brrrr > > I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The > Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I rode downtown to a dentist appointment this morning. I need to get some better gloves -- even with the grip warmers all the way up, the tips of my fingers were pretty chilly. I opted not to ride out to Reston for work, afterwards though. I'm sure that I could have added a layer polar fleece and been fine, but I wimped out and drove instead. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 10:56:50 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:56:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major >issues. Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty VF[R] friendly. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:05:22 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX ALSO... Don't forget to pick up crush washers for your drain bolt also. They should be changed every time you remove the drain bolt. Most folks don't seem to change them every time, but it's really the proper way to do it. Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an oil change: --- Oil, filters, crush washers - expended items Filter wrench of some sort (cap type is best IMO) Wrench (or socket set) for drain plug (torque wrench is best for precision) Drain pan Something to store the old oil in (some drain pans do this) Screwdriver(s) if needed to remove bodywork Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque value if you use a torque wrench --- Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:10:10 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Ron Ayers www.ronayers.com or Service Honda www.servicehonda.com are better. Both have on-line parts quotes. You need the P/N though. Luckily, I have fiches for all the VF/VFR models. Ayers - Part Number: 35850-MB0-007 Description: SWITCH ASSY. Price: $63.26 Service Honda - 35850-MB0-007 SWITCH ASSY. $64.72 Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > > > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! > >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being > >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major > >issues. > > Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty > VF[R] friendly. > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:14:07 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Chris Weaver wrote: > > Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an > oil change: > --- ... You forgot some of the most important items -- news papers and/or oil absorbing stuff like kat litter, rags for cleanup, nitrile gloves for your hands and, of course, the most important thing, a BEvERage or two for after you're done. Optional items include a hammer and a long screw driver to drive through a REALLY stuck oil filter for leverage. And, if you have a Harley, one of the official orange plastic funnel things which have been mentioned a couple times. Also, don't forget to lube the filter's O-Ring seal with some oil for a better seal and so that it comes off easier next time. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:16:44 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:15:52 -0500 To: , Skip , Tom Gimer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:27 AM 12/3/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. Frequently, yes. Not always though. It varies from person to person. > I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. As I said, I'm nowhere near above the norm in ability. I think the difference with me is that I realize that and take steps to stay well within my boundaries while I work on expanding them. For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the first week riding around my neighborhood and at the local high school parking lot after hours working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's handling and control location. Shifting, stopping, panic stopping, U-turns, "cone" weaving, slow riding, etc.. It wasn't until I was able to do the above up to the standard required to pass the MD "road test" that I even considered getting out on a major roadway. When I did, it was on back roads in Potomac...mostly 35 mph limits. A couple of hundred miles later I was back up to speed enough (I rode before, just not recently, or on a bike quite that heavy, hence the practice) to try a group ride with the MC-HOGs (new member's ride...where they expect you to have little or no group riding experience). I'm now just under 1000 miles on the clock, and I'm starting to feel a little more confident in traffic...but I still only ride when I'm well rested and the conditions are good. I don't commute on the bike and don't plan to (not having a commute helps with this! :^) I've known others who picked up a new bike and headed out on an extended road trip the next day. I suspect they are the newbies that Tom was referring to. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:17:00 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:01:37 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 05:42 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> If you are careful about things though, you are >> no more likely to >> dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as >> an experienced >> one. > >what a crock. > >send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively >low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at >the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and >one slightly elevated heartbeat. Yeah, but which is which? :^) A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better than the experienced rider who's "pushing the envelope". He'll have a lot more "room" left in the bike's performance range. I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike until I had a couple of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:27:22 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:21:41 -0500 To: Chris Weaver , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 08:03 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Chris Weaver wrote: > >Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your >manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque >value if you use a torque wrench BTW, if you have a late model H-D, there's a hex-head bolt on the bottom of the crank case. That is *NOT* the oil drain plug! *DO NOT* remove this bolt, *ever*! The above is a quote from the service manager at Battley Cycles from the recent HOGs service seminar held there. It contradicts wording in the service manual, but is based on experience. Removal of that bolt seems to result in a permanent oil leak. The bolt is there to close up a hole used to drill some of the oil passages during engine manufacture. There is no reason ever to remove it. Just in case anyone was wondering. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 11:40:59 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:40:51 -0500 20% on a dark interior will come out very DARK, had that on my last car. I have 35% on my car now w/ a tan interior and it's a nice shade. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: DC-Cycles >Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? >Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) > >On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. >Somewhere > > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA >laws > > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > > > Rob > >I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have >always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and >all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back >window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. > >In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm > >I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped >recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State >Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning >about the plate, too) :-) > >YMMV, etc :-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year ^[)BM-^W six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:21:32 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, fastlanecycles@XXXXXX, alanlapp@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-7,10-12,14,16,18 From: Tom Fitzpatrick Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail outlet in Woodbridge, VA. They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand opening sale. Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be Snap-On quality. Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX (www.nbracesites.com) *Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525 mike.watt@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:33:52 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <6934.1070472826.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:33:46 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" until after newbie had his first crash. After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that first learned me some careful. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:36:48 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:36:04 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA Tom Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail > outlet in Woodbridge, VA. > > They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in > the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, > etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand > opening sale. > > Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and > their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be > Snap-On quality. Speaking of Snap-On tools... Snap-on's hacksaw blades are *well* worth the extra. I used one a coouple weeks ago, and it -tore- through the metal I was cutting, awas very durable. sometimes cheap is fine. Sometimes, the extra really is worth it. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:39:46 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:39:41 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Acceleration, Real Acceleration A lesson in acceleration: ------------------------------------ First, some useful info: * One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. * Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. * A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. * With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. * At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. * Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. * In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. * Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence. * Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! * Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. * The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. * The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). Putting all of this into perspective: You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race course. That, folks, is acceleration. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:42:41 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:41:56 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" >until after newbie had his first crash. > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that >first learned me some careful. And hearing about you (or others who had similar experiences) is what did it for me. Thanks! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:50:38 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: Today's Jaunt Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:51:07 -0500 Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a great cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was in my FS jacket, jeans and Olympia gloves. The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are reminding me of my former homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. I still have this weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves but it could be my imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those Olympia gloves cut the wind but over time at speed I can see where this could be less than a complete blast. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 12:56:59 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:56:51 -0500 To: , "List-dc cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration At 12:39 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. That reminds me of an old Toyota ad from the 70s. They did a drag race between a Toyota Corolla and The Green Monster. The ad starts with the Toyota getting a green light and Mr. Businessman romping down on the gas. As the Toyota works up through the gears and the speedometer slowly creeps around the dial, the announcer is comparing the two vehicles. Seating comfort, gas mileage, cargo space, price, etc. all go to the Toyota...as The Green Monster sits at the start line on yellow. As the announcer builds to a frenzy, and the Corolla nears the finish line (about 5 car lengths away at almost 60 mph), The Green Monster gets the go and takes off...passing the Corolla about 2 car lengths from the finish line as the announcer says, "And in a 1/4 mile race...well, you can't have everything." Dragsters today are a lot faster than that... >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. Up at Frederick Airport's open house a few years ago I watched The Shockwave (jet powered semi) race an aerobatic plane like that. The plane started from a loop, diving down and pulling out at over 200 knots over the truck...which was stopped. As the driver saw the plane ahead of him, going down the runway at about 100', he took off...and passed the plane about 2/3 of the way down the runway (which is less than a mile long). They couldn't run The Shockwave at full speed due to the short runways there... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:00:07 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:00:04 -0500 From: Stephen Miller To: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs But can it plow snow? On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > >A lesson in acceleration: >------------------------------------ >First, some useful info: > >* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower >than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. > >* Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of >nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same >rate with 25% less energy being produced. > >* A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the >dragster's supercharger. > >* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the >fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders >run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. > >* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame >front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. > >* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the >stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water >vapor by the searing exhaust gases. > >* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an >arc welder in each cylinder. > >* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, >the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at >1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. > >* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in >the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow >cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. > >* In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an >average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the >launch acceleration approaches 8G's. > >* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading >this sentence. > >* Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! > >* Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under >load. > >* The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. > >* The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked >for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated >$1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is >4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top >speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the >run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). > >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the >RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past >the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for >both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You >keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that >sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes >you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you >just passed him. > >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. > > >That, folks, is acceleration. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:01:41 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:01:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: > >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner > better... > > > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with > "newbie" > >until after newbie had his first crash. > > > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding > along the > >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the > grinding metal > >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the > experience that > >first learned me some careful. > > And hearing about you (or others who had similar > experiences) is what did > it for me. Thanks! :^) yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of your hog. email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for miles in the saddle. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:07:11 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:06:27 -0500 From: Skip To: Stephen Miller CC: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs Stephen Miller wrote: > > But can it plow snow? aim the pipes sideways, and it doesn't have to plow it --skip > > On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > > >A lesson in acceleration: > >------------------------------------ > >First, some useful info: From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:08:50 2003 Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:08:41 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Julian Halton" , I have an R6 also... My strategy for cold weather riding is to not keep a constant pace and let tires cool. Instead, I try to accelerate and decelerate to keep the tires and the brakes warm. It works pretty well. The rear still slips from time to time, but it's not too bad. Thus far, my Metzler M1s are doing much better than my stock tires did last winter. Using a higher gear also helps decrease tire slips. But yes, tire grip sucks in 30 degree weather. It's not just your imagination. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:51 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Today's Jaunt > Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a great > cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was in > my FS jacket, > jeans and Olympia gloves. > The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are reminding > me of my former > homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. I > still have this > weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves but > it could be my > imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those > Olympia gloves cut > the wind but over time at speed I can see where this could be > less than a > complete blast. > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:23:21 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <7415.1070475796.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:23:16 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for >miles in the saddle. Thinking back, as a newbie I was a menace to my shiny, new bike when it was stopped as well. I recall dropping it in the garage, and falling over at a stop sign in super slo-mo (foot slipping on wet leaves). I'm fairly strongly in the "swallow your pride and ride a ratty bike for your first year (or two)" camp. Vowing to be careful on the road is good, but won't necessarily be enough to preserve the sheen on your new paint or chrome against driveway mishaps. And if you're planning on buying a Harley some day, it will take some experience before you've fully mastered loading and unloading it into your trailer or truck for long drives. Better to learn this skill on a ratty bike first! :) -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 13:27:34 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX M1's. see there's your problem. fancy tires. take them down a couple notches and you'll get better traction. accell/decel doesn't add heat any more than plain ol' riding does. Just like zigzagging does diddly squat to heat up tires vs going in a straight line. I've got to hand it to my Mich Pilot Road's. far better than the Metz Z1,Z2,Z4's I've run several pairs of. Puts the BT-20's to shame too. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 14:42:59 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:07:24 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs To: List-dc cycles It doesn't have to; snow in the immediate vicinity will melt. > >But can it plow snow? > > >On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > >> >>A lesson in acceleration: >>------------------------------------ >>First, some useful info: >> >>* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower >>than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 15:30:51 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:30:14 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 01:23 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >I'm fairly strongly in the "swallow your pride and ride a >ratty bike for your first year (or two)" camp. My plan, back when I first started out, was to stay off the roads as much as possible. I picked the Yamaha XT-550 because I could ride on the road, or off of it, with the same bike. It was also light (315 lbs), durable (fenders were flexible plastic), easy to keep clean (no chrome at all, just wash and rinse) and not too complicated. It was also fairly inexpensive, even new (about $1800) compared to street bikes (tour bikes were about $8000 at the time, and the average street bike was around $3000). Riding off road has several advantages. You aren't likely to get run over if you do fall, and the surfaces are often softer and less abrasive than pavement. Your speeds tend to be lower. You get to practice handling loss of traction as a regular part of riding. There's no traffic to watch out for. There aren't any speed limits to worry about so you can ignore the speedometer pretty much. You can concentrate on handling the bike and watching where you are going with a lot fewer distractions and pressures. It's also easier to pick up if you do drop it. The high low-end torque of a "thumper" is also good for city riding...excellent initial acceleration. It's lousy for the highway, but newbies probably shouldn't be there anyway. It's also got a fairly low top speed, compared to a sport bike or cruiser (mine didn't want to go much over 74, even on a straight road...and the way it shook and reacted to the slightest breeze, I didn't want it to go any faster anyway! :^) I rode that bike for a couple of years before I bought a street bike. Passed my road test on it too. I think it worked out pretty well overall. >Vowing to be >careful on the road is good, but won't necessarily be enough >to preserve the sheen on your new paint or chrome against >driveway mishaps. True, but the same "think about how it can go to hell first" idea can help even there. If you consider the possible outcomes you can usually take steps to limit the damage. As I said, stuff happens, but you can cut way down on the problems with a little caution. Or maybe a lot of caution? :^) Contrary to what Gimmer said, you can learn useful things from lists like this. For instance, a new rider might not have ever considered the danger posed by damp leaves, but after reading about the experiences of others here, they should be on the "watch out for them" list. Such learning isn't the same as actually feeling your foot (or bike...) slide out at a stop, but it's better than nothing and should help avoid at least that problem. >And if you're planning on buying a Harley some day, it will >take some experience before you've fully mastered loading and >unloading it into your trailer or truck for long drives. >Better to learn this skill on a ratty bike first! :) Sounds like a good idea to me! :^) American Thunder on Speed had a segment on that the other night. Used two ramps...one ladder-like one for the bike, one smooth-plated one for the rider. Both ramps secured with straps to the truck's trailer hitch to keep them from shifting. Bike in first gear, rider walks it up the ramp and into the Pickup and into the self-locking front wheel chock. Strap it in, fold the ramps and go. They also mentioned that it's a good idea to check the ratings of your truck to make sure that, for instance the tailgate, can take the load. Another show had an alternative method: ride the bike up over the tailgate and into the truck bed. Of course, that was an expert trials bike rider, on a custom-built trials bike... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 15:30:52 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:08:20 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar >> experiences) is what did >> it for me. Thanks! :^) > >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of >your hog. Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for >miles in the saddle. Of course not. Where did I say they were? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 15:58:36 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:58:29 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration To: Mike Bartman , List-dc cycles > That reminds me of an old Toyota ad from the 70s. They did > a drag race between a Toyota Corolla and The Green Monster. Speaking of oldie drag racers, Big Daddy Don Garlits (not Art Arfons!) is the featured guest on Dave Despain's show tonight... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 16:43:06 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:42:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration From: Randy Moran To: "List-dc cycles" Yeah, but when do we get to the lesson in turning? That's the lesson I wanna watch. On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 12:39 PM, Chris Norloff wrote some dragster propaganda. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 16:43:21 2003 Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:42:27 -0500 From: Steven McCollom To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [138.88.253.254] at Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:43:17 -0600 Chris Weaver wrote: > > Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your > manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque > value if you use a torque wrench > --- Yamaha and Honda (and undoubtedly other manufacturers) now include step-by-step routine maintenance procedures, with torque specifications, in the owner's manuals. Also, if the R6 was bought used and you don't have it, you can find Yamaha owner's manuals for the last few model years on their website in "read-only" .pdf files. Steve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 19:11:19 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:11:11 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "SHANESR74@XXXXXX" Reply-To: "SHANESR74@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03 speaking of clinton cycles, if you go my friend Joedy Peoples is the sales manager. If you go tell him shane read your post and sent you in. Joedy is a good guy and he is pretty knowledgable. shane -----Original Message----- From: The dc-cycles list administrator Sent: Dec 3, 2003 7:00 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. =( \___/ )= \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ \ || || / \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX |_| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:31:19 -0500 From: Kendall Clark To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dealership recommendation Reply-To: kendall@XXXXXX Folks, I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and I'm anxious to buy a new bike. I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good selection. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Best, Kendall Clark -- Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "lisagoddard" To: , Subject: ZX-6 Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:42:05 -0500 Hi Matt, I had a ZX6D for a while and loved it. The trans was starting to go so I sold it and got the VFR. Lisa Goddard From: "Perry Coleman" To: pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 14:12:07 -0500 Matthew, We (wife and I) own a '93 ZX-6E. That is the first year of the current model, IIRC. E1, I guess. If that is of any use to you, fire away. Regards, Perry >From: matthew patton >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: does anyone own a ZX-6E(4-11)? >Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 10:43:32 -0800 (PST) > >I'd like to ask you a question if I may... > >===== >"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in >Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 > >Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this >happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not >last if we do not learn to forgive. > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 16:47:30 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation On Tue, 2 Dec 2003, Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the area, the list, and the hobby. You picked a chilly time to get into it, though... I don't know squat about HD dealerships, although there are a bunch of Harley riders on the list. I've been to Clinton Cycles (http://www.clintoncycles.com/, out on MD-5 just outside the Beltway), and they seem reasonably friendly. They seem to carry about ten Triumph standards/cruisers in stock at a time, but I can't comment on their test ride policy or how much pressure they exert. Maybe I'll swing by and ask for a test ride some day this week (they're sort of on my way home) and let you know. Fish. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:53:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79c4005482ca5abb79d35192b9eabf7d38350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Kendall decloaked: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. [Dave] Welcome to the sport. To be clear, you say 1: You're new to DC 2: You're new to motorcycling 3: you are looking for a new bike Are we on the same page so far ? > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is possessing you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not get a new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on that list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a theoretical 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have a bike available ;-) Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. Used bikes - even 1 or 2 years - are MUCH cheaper to insure than new ones. Plus, you can afford "more bike" used, for your dollar. HTH Dave Yates _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: Sunil Doshi Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:06:31 -0500 To: DC Cycles Kendall, Welcome to the fold. I haven't been there, but I heard that the Manayunk Triumph dealer is very happy to give test rides. You should go down there when you're in town. I love that Thruxton. It's quite a looker. As far as HD, I believe Washington HD in Maryland has a demo fleet. They also seem to have decent stock. On Dec 2, 2003, at 7:31 PM, Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. I passed the MSF Rider's Edge > course in Houston just before Thanksgiving (a great course, IMO), and > I'm anxious to buy a new bike. > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > I know there's a Triumph dealer in Balmer and there's Manayunk Triumph > in Philly (I'm going to be in Philly for an XML conference next week, > so I thought I'd visit Manayunk). Anyone have any experience with > either of these or with another "local" Triumph dealer? > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > > Best, > Kendall Clark > -- > Habitation creates space; space only exists because we do. > > sunil :: proteus / changing your shape for the future sunil doshi, senior interface designer tel [202.452.6800 x101] [202.452.6866] fax http://proteus.com _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:22:07 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: 20W40 vs. 10W30 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, in theory, would hold up better in an older bike engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few months in cold temps? Hehe. In theory, of course. -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 17:43:35 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph > cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm > wondering is > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? Welcome. Clinton Cycles is the only Triumph dealer in the greater DC area, according to the flier I received today. They do give test rides, but not on every specific model. They have a big open house this weekend as well. They were very, very good for service up until a year ago, but they've had some personnel turnover recently -- don't know if it has affected the service department. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:00:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > Kendall decloaked: > > > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like > > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is > > which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > > [Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean > a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is > possessing > you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely > to > at least scrape in the next 6 months? There are a lot of reasons to not > get > a > new bike as a rookie rider, potentially screwing it up has to be high on > that > list. Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. If I had a > theoretical > 8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat > bike, > and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of > gloves, > one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich > or > comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what > you > like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without > a > bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still > have > a > bike available ;-) > Let me second that one. My hawg is still in the shop and yet I'm still able to enjoy the chilly morning rides (especially after the gym) on my Suzuki. It's getting harder and harder to convince myself to sell this thing with only one car in the house. > Buy good gear 1st, THEN get a motorcycle or motorcycles. This is a tough one to follow (IMO). After spending the past couple of years getting the cheap stuff and then upgrading, let me tell you. Save the money. Get the good stuff up front. We'll _all_ contribute to that education if you want (that's why I keep posting my opinions on the gear I buy). And pay attention to what Dave said above WRT gear. It's sound advise. > HTH > > Dave Yates > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:12:11 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Kendall Clark wrote: > Folks, > > I'm new to DC and to motorcycling. Welcome to the club. Perfect weather for riding. Got your long johns? They won't do you any good ;-) > > As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > > I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good > selection. > Note: While I visit East Coast what seems like a lot, my comments are based on summer 2002 when I was shopping for a bike. 1) The dealers down here don't offer test rides except during demo days (that'd be Patriot in Fairfax, Whitts in Manassas, and East Coast in Dumfries). Don't bother with Patriot though. As of 2002 they didn't sell outside the 703 area code. They used to rent bikes but I heard they stopped. 2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. 3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had sold signs on them. > Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. > What Dave said about not buying new. My wife got a new one and dropped it just before the 600 mile mark. A couple of scratches but no real damage. (Wasn't there a new Bandit that got dropped as well and potentially totalled? Man, my memory sucks :-) > Best, > Kendall Clark Good luck. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:24:49 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation I'll second and third the recommendations for good gear. Buy it! Wear it! Every single goddamn time! Good places to buy gear: http://www.newenough.com/ http://www.aerostich.com/ These are great places to buy gear: Aerostich for, well, Aerostich suits, New Enough for everything else except helmets. Try http://www.helmetshop.com/ and http://www.helmetcity.com/ for those, but I can't vouch for those sites. Fish. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:25:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Brrrr To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Be ready for the morning. Anticipated temp: 26 degrees Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) Gonna be chilly. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:26:35 -0500 To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:31 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Kendall Clark wrote: >As for Harley dealers, who should I be looking at? > >I care about 1) a test ride, 2) not being pressured, 3) a good >selection. I've had pretty good luck with Rockville Harley-Davidson (Battley Cycles). I got my Heritage there in late September. They have a fair number of bikes in stock and get them in regularly. They know their product. They know it will sell, so they don't push...they are there, they are friendly, they are willing to help you or let you alone as you prefer. They sponsor a really good HOGs club (Montgomery County HOGs) with over 600 members at the moment. They run some rides outside of the HOGs sometimes (I went on one to Arlington Cemetery on Veteran's Day for the wreath laying) and they are pretty laid back about everything (I was a little surprised at the service folks suggesting that much of the regular maintenance could be done by the owner during an evening maintenance seminar they held for the local HOGs). I don't know about test rides, as I didn't ask for one. I do know that Frederick H-D does rentals, and that they have a $50 deal for just a few hours if you want an extended "test ride". They like you to have recent big bike experience though (something I didn't have until I picked up my own bike...hadn't owned a bike in a decade). The $50 includes insurance and helmet. Check out their site at: http://www.hdoffrederick.com/default.htm Battley sells other kinds of bikes too. Buell, BMW, Ducati, and some Yamaha metric cruisers. They also have some Yamaha ATVs. They have a fair selection of gear too (helmets, leathers and other protective stuff, boots, gloves, shirts, heated stuff, etc.). If you want to check them out, this Saturday (the 6th from 10-4) might be a good time. It's their holiday open house. If it's anything like the last one I went to, there will be free burgers and dogs, lots of people around (i.e. customers you can ask for opinions and stories), and some discounts (some pretty good (like 50%) if you need the items covered) on in-stock stuff. They are also taking donations of canned food or money for the Manna Food Center and "Mother" Christine, and running a toy drive. Their web page is at: http://www.battley.com/ MC-HOG is at: http://www.mchog.net/ I don't own the place, or work there. I'm just a satisfied customer. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:47:42 -0500 To: "Dave Yates" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 07:53 PM 12/2/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >Kendall decloaked: >> I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of Triumph cruiser (I like >> the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); what I'm wondering is >> which are the best dealerships in the DC-Philly area? > >[Dave] Since you said you're new to motorcycling, I'll a$$ume you mean >a total noob. FNG. Rookie. If that's true, I have to ask what is >possessing >you to go out and drop that much $$$ on a new bike that you are likely to >at least scrape in the next 6 months? While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. I dropped my Honda 700 Saber once after bumping a Chrysler New Yorker in the tail light (bent front fender, broken clutch lever, both easily replaced) but that was after owning it for almost 2 years. I haven't dropped my H-D so far, and I'm working hard to make sure it stays that way, but time will tell. The above is not trying at all to suggest that I'm God's gift to motorcycling with super-human balance and reflexes. That's not me at all. That's an ex-girlfriend's gymnast brother (who was doing block-long wheelies 5 days after getting on a motorcycle for the first time). I'm the other guy. The one who learns physical things slower than average...but who knows it and so takes things slowly and carefully. If you get more bike than you are ready for, and then go out and ride like you are a pro on a race track, yes, you are likely to dump it in short order. If you are careful about things though, you are no more likely to dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as an experienced one. Stuff happens to everyone, but you can avoid adding to the problem with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they are well determined. > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance (the stuff based mostly on your riding history) the only real bike factors my insurance company seemed to care about was bike engine size and whether there were any "performance enhancements" added. The smaller and the fewer the cheaper. A stock Sportster would be cheaper to insure than my stock Softail. It would also be cheaper for comprehensive and collision, since it costs less than half as much to start with. Other insurance companies may have other rules though. >If I had a theoretical >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have >a bike available ;-) Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. If you could pay cash for all that stuff you could just get liability insurance and "self-insure" for the rest...with a loan you will be required to carry full coverage by the lender. You'd probably also get a lot more "wrenching" education that way too. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:51:48 -0500 To: Sean Steele , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 At 05:22 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Sean Steele wrote: >What's the main difference in these oils? Viscosity (thickness). >Which one, >in theory, would hold up better in an older bike >engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few >months in cold temps? What grade does the bike manufacturer recommend for the temps we are likely to get in the next few months? (i.e. have you RTFM yet? :^) Based on the last 23 years here I'd guess that the next few months will see temps between 70 and 10 degrees, with the average being around 35-40. Whole weeks in the 20s aren't unheard of in December thru February. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:59:43 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Sean Steele CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 20W40 vs. 10W30 Whatever viscosity is recommended by the bike manufacturer for the temperature range you'll be operating in. I seem to recall Japanese UJM engines like 10W40W for summer climes, but 10W30W might be the choice for chilly weather. Never heard of 20W40W. My Harley uses 20W50W, so gooey it's hard to crank at freezing temps. Not a great choice for winter. Bill Sean Steele wrote: > What's the main difference in these oils? Which one, > in theory, would hold up better in an older bike > engine garaged outside and ridden for the next few > months in cold temps? > > Hehe. In theory, of course. > > -Sean _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:00:24 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791536998d041c9bd1e7536efab87d1cc6350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Mike B points out (and reminds Dave): > While what Dave says is worth thinking about, I'd like to point out that > dropping bikes isn't something that *everyone* does every time. I never > dropped my Yamaha XT-550...though I came close a few times while off road, > and once while loading it on a trailer to take it in for service. [Dave] This is a good point which I alluded to, but didn't really clarify. Lots of folks here advocate getting a POS beater, which I _do_not_ agree with. You should get something that interests you, which you will want to hold on to for more than 6 months. I started on a v45 Magna, and within 1 year had a ZX11 which was then the fastest production bike money could buy... And much to my bank account's chagrin, that was not enough. It was but a scant 15 months or so before I started down the Dark Path to adding MORE POWER. Neither have ever been down with me as a pilot. If you have the discipline - and ONLY if, to respect the power, then, and ONLY then should you consider a bike with really decent power and handling as a 1st or 2nd bike. Evaluate that for yourself honestly. you can avoid adding to the problem > with the application of some common sense and caution. Until you find out > where your limits are you keep well away from where you think they are, and > feel them out a little at a time. Save pushing them for later, once they > are well determined. > > > Insurance, cost of the bike etc. is also up there. > > That's true enough. The MSF course will help, but experience also counts. > On the other hand, when it comes to liability insurance ... [Dave] I wouldn't even consider liability only, especially as a noob... Unless I could insure myself.... > >If I had a theoretical > >8 grand to spend, I'd buy one used, good condition bike, at least 1 rat bike, > >and a street legal dual purpose bike + 2 good helmets, 2 good sets of gloves, > >one set of good bike boots, 1 pair issue combat boots, and an Aerostich or > >comparable leather suit. Use the 1st year of riding to figure out what you > >like about your ride, and what you would like improved. Sure, having a > >new ride scores squid points, but if you put it down, you'll be without a > >bike until it's fixed, whereas if you use the above plan, you'll still have > >a bike available ;-) > > Sounds like a well-thought out and viable plan. Dave _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 21:58:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 06:12 PM 12/2/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >2) Since they have the "hot" bikes, there wasn't much pressure when I went >shopping. I got lucky and was able to get my Softail within 30 days but >that was because someone had bailed on his. It may be better with a >Sportster though. I usually see a couple of these in East Coast. Battley's always has some sportsters around. They may even have one or two 2003's left. They are selling at MSRP these days too. >3) The three here have lots of consignment bikes and a small selection of >new ones. In East Coast there was a row of 20 or so but most of them had >sold signs on them. Battley's has at least a couple of used police models for sale. They were traded in by the local departments for new bikes. They strip the radios, flashing lights and sirens off, and swap the police tires for civilian ones, but that's about it. For anyone who doesn't know (I didn't) the police tires are much stiffer in the sidewalls than the civilian ones...so they can go up a square curb without damage to the rims was the reason I heard. The police seat is great for solo, but lousy if you want to ride two-up. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:12:17 -0800 (PST) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: kendall@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > I'm considering a HD Sportster or some kind of > Triumph cruiser (I like > the '04 Thruxton and the Bonneville Sport); I don't think any Triumph, not even a brand new one, would make a good first bike for anyone who is not comfortable turning wrenches. I only know five people with the new generation of Triumphs, and for the most part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not bashing Triumph at all; god knows I've got a soft spot for any British bike. Just stating a fact... a very very high maintenance bike for a beginner. cheers, patti (insert constantly growing list of broken British stuff here) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:37:51 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > part they love their Triumphs. But there is a running > joke that the electrics on the new Triumphs maintain > the same "quality standards" set by Lucas. I am not geez, what do these people own? I had no problems (that weren't my own doing) on my 1st generation Hinkley. I can easily round up another 5 who can likewise show no complaints. The Hinkley Triumphs (91+) are no less reliable as Kawasaki's. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 23:38:37 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Subject: Re: Brrrr From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 03 Dec 2003 08:00:38 -0500 I had the gerbings on half to two-thirds heat most of the way in. Just like with the chaps, my thighs are the only body part that got pretty cold (heated jacket liner and gloves but not pants liner). I figure that once I'm on the Harley again, I'll be able to wear the quilted liner in the pants and will have no problems the rest of the winter. Yesterday I baked in my gear so I mounted my controller to the windshield support struts. I was able to easily adjust the temps and when we slowed down dropped the temps down to about a quarter. The FogCity shield is f***ing awesome. I could see my breath inside the helmet with the shield closed and no condensation. Last night I wore my sunglasses too and found they were fogging up but the shield wasn't. Just a little annoying. After having used it for the past three weeks, there are a couple of minute scratches on the inside shield. I expect that I'll follow another rider's recommendation and just get a new one each year. I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I have a doctor's appointment today and will stop by Crossroads Cycles to get a picture of his Honda Chopper on the way. His "coil box" looks like a good idea for my project bike and I'm visiting Leon's welder Saturday for some fabrication. Later, Carl On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 21:25, Carl Schelin wrote: > Be ready for the morning. > > Anticipated temp: 26 degrees > Wind Chill at 60MPH+: 3 degrees ;) > > Gonna be chilly. > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:23:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Fwd: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack To: DC Cycles forwarded per todd peer's request: --- "Todd P." wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 08:42:22 -0500 > From: "Todd P." > Subject: [MOFOS] FS: Jackets/Back Pack > To: WSDYMF@XXXXXX > > I plan to put the BackPack on eBay unless I can sell it > locally. Anyone? > > Also, I have a couple of jackets I'd like to get rid of. > They will go to > the local Goodwill if I can't sell them. Really hate to > do that as the BMW > Jacket is in damned good shape! > > If someone could forward to DC-Cycles, I'd appreciate it. > > Contact: combat_tourer@XXXXXX > > Thanks. T > > Jackets__________________ > $30 - Black Darien Jacket(XL). > Needs heat taping repair so it isn't completely > water proof. However, for fair weather riding > this jacket is excellent protection > $150 - BMW Savanah Jacket with Gortex Liner (US size 54R) > for > big body. Left arm at crash pad has been used > but the jacket is still very useable. Original > cost was over $600 and $200+ of that was the > liner. You will NOT get wet with this liner, > it's awsome! > > BackPack____________________ > > $50 > This is a used but like brand new internal frame backpack > produced by > Eastern Mountain Sports, a high end outdoor supply store. > This backpack is > totally adjustable to fit your body size. It has > adjustable torso lengths, > waist and shoulder straps. This is a multi-day backpack > with 5000 cubic > inches of capacity. This backpack has only been used one > time and is a > perfectly decent item to add to your adventure camping > gear, or as an > adventurers luggage system! > > Overall: > > 5000 cubic inches > Color: Blue with Maroon > Material: 500/600 Denier CORDURA, nylon extension. > Weight: 5.5Lbs > Adjustable Hip belt to 48" waist > Internal Frame - Removable molded plastic with separate > padding > No Rain Fly but is designed for wet weather (Scotchgaurd) > Top Opening Main Compartment > Front Opening Lower / Sleeping Bag Compartment > Top Flap Pocket - 2, exterior and interior > Two Water Bottle Side Pockets > Multiple strap loops for securing gear > > Other Features: > > Easy access top opening > Heavy duty S-shape padded shoulder straps > Thoracic strap and D rings on shoulder straps > Padded hip belt with adjustable buckled webbing straps > Secure adjustable webbing straps on both sides > Chest buckle straps > Air Flow padded back panel > Padded lower back support suspension > Webbing straps for attaching extra items > Thumb loops for attaching tools, walking stick or ice axes ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:31:42 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX find a good service manual on ebay and pick up some oil and filters in quantity. oil changes are simple.... just don't overtighten the drain plug. get in the habit of doing regular checks of oil level/condition, tire pressure/condition, final drive; and with your japanese inline 4 you'll likely avoid visits to the dealer except for milestone services. -- tg --- Julian Halton wrote: > As an excuse to ride, I went out at lunch to buy some > brake cleaner from the > dreaded C- a place that has actually been quite good to > me thus far. I > inquired about oil changes as I was under the impression > they went along > with every service. Apparently you are supposed to change > out the oil every > 2K or so for optimum performance. When I asked about an > oil change for the > '02 R6 I was quoted 75 bucks...now that smells worse than > some of the > cheeses my dad puts on the table after a fmaily feast..so > in the interest of > saving money especially as Consum-ass Day is around the > corner, how can I > get this done and save some dollars? > > Cheers > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 05:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > If you are careful about things though, you are > no more likely to > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > an experienced > one. what a crock. send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and one slightly elevated heartbeat. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:05:40 -0500 I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:13:06 -0500 Maybe this will help. http://home.pcisys.net/~bpc/auto_law/tint/tint_md.html Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning about the plate, too) :-) YMMV, etc :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:15:35 -0500 http://www.autotrim-md.com/tinting.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:05 AM Subject: Good Tint Shop? > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Subject: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:25:59 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Just an update on the starting problems I had had with the Interceptor: After work yesterday, I bought an inexpensive pair of jumper cables, and pushed the bike to a lighted spot next to my truck. Hooking up the cables the starter came to life again, so I hastily un-hooked cables before I started more experiments in melting rubber... I found the starter relay (right behind the main fuse I was checking yesterday, d'oh!), and gave it a sharp rap on the base with the Leatherman. Then, hooked up the jumper cables again to hear... blessed silence! Whoo-hoo! I left the cables on for a few minutes to give it a bit of a charge (truck was off during this exercise, based on tips from the list) and when I tried the starter, the bike turned over twice and fired right up. What a feeling of relief! I ran it for about ten minutes, and took it around the block once, started it again after a stop to see if the problem reasserted itself, no apparent issues. I did have a minor panic attack when the fuel pump ticked over a couple of times, I thought the starter relay was auto-engaging, but so far, so good. Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major issues. Thanks to everyone for the tips and advice, it's a great list! Robert _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Subject: RE: All I want for Christmas.... Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:35:09 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Bob Meyer" Cc: Oh... My... God. That is one gorgeous bike. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Bob Meyer [mailto:rmeyer9@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:39 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: All I want for Christmas.... >&item=2446395897> Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 '92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red '02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red '02 919, Asphalt "Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 09:40:17 -0500 From: Skip To: Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > no more likely to > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > an experienced > > one. > > what a crock. > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > one slightly elevated heartbeat. I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of the *bam*bulance. --skip _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: To: Skip , Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:04 -0500 > > From: Skip > Date: 2003/12/03 Wed AM 09:40:17 EST > To: Tom Gimer > CC: Mike Bartman , Dave Yates , > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: dealership recommendation > > Tom Gimer wrote: > > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > > If you are careful about things though, you are > > > no more likely to > > > dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as > > > an experienced > > > one. > > > > what a crock. > > > > send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively > > low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at > > the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and > > one slightly elevated heartbeat. > > I'm going to have to second that. miles in type == experience and experience is > often the difference between riding home on your bike and riding in the back of > the *bam*bulance. > > --skip > Toss in my "me too". I can ride with a dozen experienced riders without incident. Go on the same ride with a bunch of newbies and there's almost always something that happens. Muscle memory to react to "other than normal" situations can only be gained through experience. And that takes time. Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. -aki _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:53 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Brrrr On 3 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Subject: Re: Brrrr > > I spotted only one rider on the way in. A BMW getting off at The > Pentagon. There was a Harley in the lot when I got to work. I rode downtown to a dentist appointment this morning. I need to get some better gloves -- even with the grip warmers all the way up, the tips of my fingers were pretty chilly. I opted not to ride out to Reston for work, afterwards though. I'm sure that I could have added a layer polar fleece and been fine, but I wimped out and drove instead. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:56:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major >issues. Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty VF[R] friendly. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 08:03:43 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: The C factor To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX ALSO... Don't forget to pick up crush washers for your drain bolt also. They should be changed every time you remove the drain bolt. Most folks don't seem to change them every time, but it's really the proper way to do it. Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an oil change: --- Oil, filters, crush washers - expended items Filter wrench of some sort (cap type is best IMO) Wrench (or socket set) for drain plug (torque wrench is best for precision) Drain pan Something to store the old oil in (some drain pans do this) Screwdriver(s) if needed to remove bodywork Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque value if you use a torque wrench --- Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:08:39 -0500 Ron Ayers www.ronayers.com or Service Honda www.servicehonda.com are better. Both have on-line parts quotes. You need the P/N though. Luckily, I have fiches for all the VF/VFR models. Ayers - Part Number: 35850-MB0-007 Description: SWITCH ASSY. Price: $63.26 Service Honda - 35850-MB0-007 SWITCH ASSY. $64.72 Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 10:56 AM Subject: Re: Cold starting blues - Update > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > > > Next steps; price/buy spare starter relay ($81.26 at PowerSports! > >Ouch!), check and clean electrical connections, new battery... Just being > >a little paranoid, but I sure want to fix problems before they become major > >issues. > > Check AZmotorsports.com They're likely less expensive and are pretty > VF[R] friendly. > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:13:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Chris Weaver wrote: > > Here's what I can think of that you'd need to do an > oil change: > --- ... You forgot some of the most important items -- news papers and/or oil absorbing stuff like kat litter, rags for cleanup, nitrile gloves for your hands and, of course, the most important thing, a BEvERage or two for after you're done. Optional items include a hammer and a long screw driver to drive through a REALLY stuck oil filter for leverage. And, if you have a Harley, one of the official orange plastic funnel things which have been mentioned a couple times. Also, don't forget to lube the filter's O-Ring seal with some oil for a better seal and so that it comes off easier next time. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:15:52 -0500 To: , Skip , Tom Gimer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 10:27 AM 12/3/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced rider, both on two as well as four wheels. Frequently, yes. Not always though. It varies from person to person. > I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the norm in ability, but the majority of the populace overestimates their ability to operate a (high powered or heavy) motorcycle. As I said, I'm nowhere near above the norm in ability. I think the difference with me is that I realize that and take steps to stay well within my boundaries while I work on expanding them. For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the first week riding around my neighborhood and at the local high school parking lot after hours working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's handling and control location. Shifting, stopping, panic stopping, U-turns, "cone" weaving, slow riding, etc.. It wasn't until I was able to do the above up to the standard required to pass the MD "road test" that I even considered getting out on a major roadway. When I did, it was on back roads in Potomac...mostly 35 mph limits. A couple of hundred miles later I was back up to speed enough (I rode before, just not recently, or on a bike quite that heavy, hence the practice) to try a group ride with the MC-HOGs (new member's ride...where they expect you to have little or no group riding experience). I'm now just under 1000 miles on the clock, and I'm starting to feel a little more confident in traffic...but I still only ride when I'm well rested and the conditions are good. I don't commute on the bike and don't plan to (not having a commute helps with this! :^) I've known others who picked up a new bike and headed out on an extended road trip the next day. I suspect they are the newbies that Tom was referring to. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:01:37 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 05:42 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> If you are careful about things though, you are >> no more likely to >> dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it as >> an experienced >> one. > >what a crock. > >send a newbie and an experienced rider around a relatively >low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness at >the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament and >one slightly elevated heartbeat. Yeah, but which is which? :^) A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better than the experienced rider who's "pushing the envelope". He'll have a lot more "room" left in the bike's performance range. I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike until I had a couple of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:21:41 -0500 To: Chris Weaver , Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The C factor At 08:03 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Chris Weaver wrote: > >Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your >manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque >value if you use a torque wrench BTW, if you have a late model H-D, there's a hex-head bolt on the bottom of the crank case. That is *NOT* the oil drain plug! *DO NOT* remove this bolt, *ever*! The above is a quote from the service manager at Battley Cycles from the recent HOGs service seminar held there. It contradicts wording in the service manual, but is based on experience. Removal of that bolt seems to result in a permanent oil leak. The bolt is there to close up a hole used to drill some of the oil passages during engine manufacture. There is no reason ever to remove it. Just in case anyone was wondering. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:40:51 -0500 20% on a dark interior will come out very DARK, had that on my last car. I have 35% on my car now w/ a tan interior and it's a nice shade. >From: Wayne Edelen >To: DC-Cycles >Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? >Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 09:30:06 -0500 (EST) > >On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my S10 tinted. >Somewhere > > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any idea of the MD/VA >laws > > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very dark. > > > > Rob > >I've heard good things about LA Tint (http://www.latint.com/). I have >always used Details in Rockville, MD. They've done several of my cars and >all have been perfect, except my Z06. There are a few areas on the back >window where the tint didn't stick around the 'black dots' at the top. > >In MD 35% is the limit - http://www.latint.com/regulations.htm > >I'm running 35% on some of my cars and 20% on others. I was stopped >recently for not having a front plate on one of my cars and the MD State >Trooper didn't say anything about the 'illegal' tint (I got a warning >about the plate, too) :-) > >YMMV, etc :-) > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year M-^W six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, fastlanecycles@XXXXXX, alanlapp@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 11:22:39 -0500 Subject: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,6-7,10-12,14,16,18 From: Tom Fitzpatrick Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail outlet in Woodbridge, VA. They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand opening sale. Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be Snap-On quality. Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX (www.nbracesites.com) *Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525 mike.watt@XXXXXX _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <6934.1070472826.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:33:46 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" until after newbie had his first crash. After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that first learned me some careful. -harry _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:36:04 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Harbor Freight Tools Retail Outlet Opening in Woodbridge, VA Tom Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Saw an ad in the paper that Harbor Freight Tools is opening a retail > outlet in Woodbridge, VA. > > They are opening next Tuesday, December 9th, I believe. They will be in > the store adjoining the Michael's Home Design (Dairy Queen, Bob Evans, > etc.) across Smoketown Road from Potomac Mills. They are having a grand > opening sale. > > Not necessarily Snap-On quality, but should be a fun place to browse and > their catalogues always have lots of neat stuff that doesn't need to be > Snap-On quality. Speaking of Snap-On tools... Snap-on's hacksaw blades are *well* worth the extra. I used one a coouple weeks ago, and it -tore- through the metal I was cutting, awas very durable. sometimes cheap is fine. Sometimes, the extra really is worth it. --skip _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:39:41 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Acceleration, Real Acceleration A lesson in acceleration: ------------------------------------ First, some useful info: * One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. * Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. * A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. * With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. * At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. * Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. * In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. * Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence. * Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! * Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. * The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. * The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). Putting all of this into perspective: You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race course. That, folks, is acceleration. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:41:56 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner better... > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with "newbie" >until after newbie had his first crash. > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that >first learned me some careful. And hearing about you (or others who had similar experiences) is what did it for me. Thanks! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: Today's Jaunt Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:51:07 -0500 Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a great cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was in my FS jacket, jeans and Olympia gloves. The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are reminding me of my former homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. I still have this weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves but it could be my imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those Olympia gloves cut the wind but over time at speed I can see where this could be less than a complete blast. _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:56:51 -0500 To: , "List-dc cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration At 12:39 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. That reminds me of an old Toyota ad from the 70s. They did a drag race between a Toyota Corolla and The Green Monster. The ad starts with the Toyota getting a green light and Mr. Businessman romping down on the gas. As the Toyota works up through the gears and the speedometer slowly creeps around the dial, the announcer is comparing the two vehicles. Seating comfort, gas mileage, cargo space, price, etc. all go to the Toyota...as The Green Monster sits at the start line on yellow. As the announcer builds to a frenzy, and the Corolla nears the finish line (about 5 car lengths away at almost 60 mph), The Green Monster gets the go and takes off...passing the Corolla about 2 car lengths from the finish line as the announcer says, "And in a 1/4 mile race...well, you can't have everything." Dragsters today are a lot faster than that... >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. Up at Frederick Airport's open house a few years ago I watched The Shockwave (jet powered semi) race an aerobatic plane like that. The plane started from a loop, diving down and pulling out at over 200 knots over the truck...which was stopped. As the driver saw the plane ahead of him, going down the runway at about 100', he took off...and passed the plane about 2/3 of the way down the runway (which is less than a mile long). They couldn't run The Shockwave at full speed due to the short runways there... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:00:04 -0500 From: Stephen Miller To: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs But can it plow snow? On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > >A lesson in acceleration: >------------------------------------ >First, some useful info: > >* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower >than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. > >* Under full throttle, a Top Fuel dragster engine consumes 1= gallons of >nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same >rate with 25% less energy being produced. > >* A stock Dodge 426 Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the >dragster's supercharger. > >* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the >fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders >run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. > >* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame >front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. > >* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the >stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water >vapor by the searing exhaust gases. > >* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an >arc welder in each cylinder. > >* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, >the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at >1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. > >* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in >the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow >cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. > >* In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an >average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the >launch acceleration approaches 8G's. > >* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading >this sentence. > >* Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! > >* Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under >load. > >* The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm. > >* The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked >for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated >$1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is >4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top >speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the >run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta). > >Putting all of this into perspective: > >You are riding the average $250,000 Honda MotoGP bike. Over a mile up the >road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile >strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the >RC211V hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past >the dragster at an honest 200 mph (293 ft/sec). The 'tree' goes green for >both of you at that moment. The dragster launches and starts after you. You >keep your wrist cranked hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that >sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes >you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you >just passed him. > >Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph >and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you >within a mere 1320 foot long race course. > > >That, folks, is acceleration. > > > > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:01:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 12:33 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: > >>A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner > better... > > > >In my experience, "careful" didn't catch up with > "newbie" > >until after newbie had his first crash. > > > >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding > along the > >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the > grinding metal > >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the > experience that > >first learned me some careful. > > And hearing about you (or others who had similar > experiences) is what did > it for me. Thanks! :^) yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of your hog. email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for miles in the saddle. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:06:27 -0500 From: Skip To: Stephen Miller CC: List-dc cycles Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs Stephen Miller wrote: > > But can it plow snow? aim the pipes sideways, and it doesn't have to plow it --skip > > On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > > > > >A lesson in acceleration: > >------------------------------------ > >First, some useful info: _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:08:41 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Julian Halton" , I have an R6 also... My strategy for cold weather riding is to not keep a constant pace and let tires cool. Instead, I try to accelerate and decelerate to keep the tires and the brakes warm. It works pretty well. The rear still slips from time to time, but it's not too bad. Thus far, my Metzler M1s are doing much better than my stock tires did last winter. Using a higher gear also helps decrease tire slips. But yes, tire grip sucks in 30 degree weather. It's not just your imagination. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 12:51 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Today's Jaunt > Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a great > cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was in > my FS jacket, > jeans and Olympia gloves. > The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are reminding > me of my former > homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. I > still have this > weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves but > it could be my > imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those > Olympia gloves cut > the wind but over time at speed I can see where this could be > less than a > complete blast. > > > > > > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <7415.1070475796.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:23:16 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for >miles in the saddle. Thinking back, as a newbie I was a menace to my shiny, new bike when it was stopped as well. I recall dropping it in the garage, and falling over at a stop sign in super slo-mo (foot slipping on wet leaves). I'm fairly strongly in the "swallow your pride and ride a ratty bike for your first year (or two)" camp. Vowing to be careful on the road is good, but won't necessarily be enough to preserve the sheen on your new paint or chrome against driveway mishaps. And if you're planning on buying a Harley some day, it will take some experience before you've fully mastered loading and unloading it into your trailer or truck for long drives. Better to learn this skill on a ratty bike first! :) -harry _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX M1's. see there's your problem. fancy tires. take them down a couple notches and you'll get better traction. accell/decel doesn't add heat any more than plain ol' riding does. Just like zigzagging does diddly squat to heat up tires vs going in a straight line. I've got to hand it to my Mich Pilot Road's. far better than the Metz Z1,Z2,Z4's I've run several pairs of. Puts the BT-20's to shame too. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 13:07:24 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Tradeoffs, Real Tradeoffs To: List-dc cycles It doesn't have to; snow in the immediate vicinity will melt. > >But can it plow snow? > > >On Wednesday, December 03, 2003, at 12:39PM, Chris Norloff wrote: > >> >>A lesson in acceleration: >>------------------------------------ >>First, some useful info: >> >>* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower >>than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. Dave Yates _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:30:14 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 01:23 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >I'm fairly strongly in the "swallow your pride and ride a >ratty bike for your first year (or two)" camp. My plan, back when I first started out, was to stay off the roads as much as possible. I picked the Yamaha XT-550 because I could ride on the road, or off of it, with the same bike. It was also light (315 lbs), durable (fenders were flexible plastic), easy to keep clean (no chrome at all, just wash and rinse) and not too complicated. It was also fairly inexpensive, even new (about $1800) compared to street bikes (tour bikes were about $8000 at the time, and the average street bike was around $3000). Riding off road has several advantages. You aren't likely to get run over if you do fall, and the surfaces are often softer and less abrasive than pavement. Your speeds tend to be lower. You get to practice handling loss of traction as a regular part of riding. There's no traffic to watch out for. There aren't any speed limits to worry about so you can ignore the speedometer pretty much. You can concentrate on handling the bike and watching where you are going with a lot fewer distractions and pressures. It's also easier to pick up if you do drop it. The high low-end torque of a "thumper" is also good for city riding...excellent initial acceleration. It's lousy for the highway, but newbies probably shouldn't be there anyway. It's also got a fairly low top speed, compared to a sport bike or cruiser (mine didn't want to go much over 74, even on a straight road...and the way it shook and reacted to the slightest breeze, I didn't want it to go any faster anyway! :^) I rode that bike for a couple of years before I bought a street bike. Passed my road test on it too. I think it worked out pretty well overall. >Vowing to be >careful on the road is good, but won't necessarily be enough >to preserve the sheen on your new paint or chrome against >driveway mishaps. True, but the same "think about how it can go to hell first" idea can help even there. If you consider the possible outcomes you can usually take steps to limit the damage. As I said, stuff happens, but you can cut way down on the problems with a little caution. Or maybe a lot of caution? :^) Contrary to what Gimmer said, you can learn useful things from lists like this. For instance, a new rider might not have ever considered the danger posed by damp leaves, but after reading about the experiences of others here, they should be on the "watch out for them" list. Such learning isn't the same as actually feeling your foot (or bike...) slide out at a stop, but it's better than nothing and should help avoid at least that problem. >And if you're planning on buying a Harley some day, it will >take some experience before you've fully mastered loading and >unloading it into your trailer or truck for long drives. >Better to learn this skill on a ratty bike first! :) Sounds like a good idea to me! :^) American Thunder on Speed had a segment on that the other night. Used two ramps...one ladder-like one for the bike, one smooth-plated one for the rider. Both ramps secured with straps to the truck's trailer hitch to keep them from shifting. Bike in first gear, rider walks it up the ramp and into the Pickup and into the self-locking front wheel chock. Strap it in, fold the ramps and go. They also mentioned that it's a good idea to check the ratings of your truck to make sure that, for instance the tailgate, can take the load. Another show had an alternative method: ride the bike up over the tailgate and into the truck bed. Of course, that was an expert trials bike rider, on a custom-built trials bike... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 15:08:20 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar >> experiences) is what did >> it for me. Thanks! :^) > >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of >your hog. Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for >miles in the saddle. Of course not. Where did I say they were? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:58:29 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration To: Mike Bartman , List-dc cycles > That reminds me of an old Toyota ad from the 70s. They did > a drag race between a Toyota Corolla and The Green Monster. Speaking of oldie drag racers, Big Daddy Don Garlits (not Art Arfons!) is the featured guest on Dave Despain's show tonight... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 16:42:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Acceleration, Real Acceleration From: Randy Moran To: "List-dc cycles" Yeah, but when do we get to the lesson in turning? That's the lesson I wanna watch. On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 12:39 PM, Chris Norloff wrote some dragster propaganda. > > _ _ _ _ .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 16:42:27 -0500 From: Steven McCollom To: Julian Halton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: The C factor X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out011.verizon.net from [138.88.253.254] at Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:43:17 -0600 Chris Weaver wrote: > > Service manual (Haynes, Clymer, or your > manufacturer's) for more info and drain plug torque > value if you use a torque wrench > --- Yamaha and Honda (and undoubtedly other manufacturers) now include step-by-step routine maintenance procedures, with torque specifications, in the owner's manuals. Also, if the R6 was bought used and you don't have it, you can find Yamaha owner's manuals for the last few model years on their website in "read-only" .pdf files. Steve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 20:52:54 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 17:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar > >> experiences) is what did > >> it for me. Thanks! :^) > > > >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of > >your hog. > > Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. > Just don't ask about mine :-) > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 21:22:15 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:22:45 -0500 Yay I got an all black interior. Rob On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:40:51 -0500, rich hall wrote > 20% on a dark interior will come out very DARK, had that on my last car. > I have 35% on my car now w/ a tan interior and it's a nice shade. > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 21:36:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 21:37:10 -0500 > yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition of > your hog. > > email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute for > miles in the saddle. > > -- > tg > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 21:54:11 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:08:35 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) Maybe the list admin can include a message length limit for those not sharp enough to avoid quoting the entire digest back for 4 lines of a reply? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, SHANESR74@XXXXXX wrote: > speaking of clinton cycles, > if you go my friend Joedy Peoples is the sales manager. If you go tell him shane read > your post and sent you in. Joedy is a good guy and he is pretty knowledgable. > shane [... snip entire message (using pine no less!)...] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 22:50:37 2003 Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Is bandwitdth that expensive? --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > Maybe the list admin can include a message length > limit for those not > sharp enough to avoid quoting the entire digest back > for 4 lines of a > reply? :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, SHANESR74@XXXXXX wrote: > > > speaking of clinton cycles, > > if you go my friend Joedy Peoples is the sales > manager. If you go tell him shane read > > your post and sent you in. Joedy is a good guy > and he is pretty knowledgable. > > shane > [... snip entire message (using pine no less!)...] > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 3 23:27:17 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) Content-ID: <2906.1070512032.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:27:12 -0500 From: harry@XXXXXX >Is bandwitdth that expensive? Consider that the readers of Thursday's digest will have to wade through the entire contents of Wednesday's digest to get past the message that quoted it. If somebody does this tomorrow night, too, then Friday's digest will contain the whole of Wednesday's and Thursday's digest. I can look into setting a maximum size on postings to try to curtail this. Note that this will curtail any legitimate really long postings as well (if there is such a thing). In general, "things" work a lot better when the listers police their own postings, rather than relying on software to be smart enough to distinguish baby from bathwater. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 06:39:38 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 03:39:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar > >> experiences) is what did > >> it for me. Thanks! :^) > > > >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition > of > >your hog. > > Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. > > >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute > for > >miles in the saddle. > > Of course not. Where did I say they were? hmmm.... perhaps at the top of this message!?!? you've admittedly re-learned accident-prevention-and-avoidance techniques vicariously. alternatively, in 1000 miles of parking lot practice and travel to and from the seasonal battleys hotdog fairs, you've comfortably covered all conceivable road hazards. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 06:56:39 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 03:56:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , adamme1@XXXXXX, Skip Cc: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:27 AM 12/3/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > >Overconfidence is usually the trait of an inexperienced > rider, both on two > as well as four wheels. > > Frequently, yes. Not always though. It varies from > person to person. > > > I'm not pinging you Bart, you may well be above the > norm in ability, but > the majority of the populace overestimates their ability > to operate a (high > powered or heavy) motorcycle. > > As I said, I'm nowhere near above the norm in ability. I > think the > difference with me is that I realize that and take steps > to stay well > within my boundaries while I work on expanding them. > > For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the > first week riding > around my neighborhood and at the local high school > parking lot after hours > working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's > handling and > control location. Shifting, stopping, panic stopping, > U-turns, "cone" > weaving, slow riding, etc.. It wasn't until I was able > to do the above up > to the standard required to pass the MD "road test" that > I even considered > getting out on a major roadway. When I did, it was on > back roads in > Potomac...mostly 35 mph limits. A couple of hundred > miles later I was back > up to speed enough (I rode before, just not recently, or > on a bike quite > that heavy, hence the practice) to try a group ride with > the MC-HOGs (new > member's ride...where they expect you to have little or > no group riding > experience). I'm now just under 1000 miles on the > clock, and I'm starting > to feel a little more confident in traffic...but I still > only ride when I'm > well rested and the conditions are good. I don't commute > on the bike and > don't plan to (not having a commute helps with this! :^) > > I've known others who picked up a new bike and headed out > on an extended > road trip the next day. I suspect they are the newbies > that Tom was > referring to. i swear.... it must be the length of the posts because this guy can't seem to make it through a single post without spewing some amount of hot air. the maryland road test doesn't prepare you for shit. any confidence gained by passing that test is surely a dangerous trait. nothing prepares one for the unexpected like being involved, time after time, with the unexpected. brain dead cagers, cell phone yakkers, oblivious reversers, gravel, deer, morning dew, cold tires, centerline straddlers, etc. some of the folks i'm referring to are the lean-challenged imbeciles on 1340cc hds that we run into constantly in the mountains. rolling butt-plugs for the most part and an embarrassment to the biking community (especially when they have beer stops along the way). we ran into a group of 10 or so in wva recently who were literally finishing up their beers in the gas station parking lot. hmm. sounds somewhat similar to a battleys get together. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 07:25:12 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 07:23:47 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Tom Gimer CC: Mike Bartman , adamme1@XXXXXX, Skip , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Overconfidance - was dealer rec When I was going on 12, shortly after the Earth cooled, I was fixing to embark on the Great South Bay, a mean body of water, in my fist of many outboard boats. My pappy, who as a sailor had raced a `32 Desoto on So Cal dirt tracks, ran a Henderson motorcycle in events known as pit races, and survived WWII at the helm of a PBY-5 Catilina while on anti-sub patrols in the North Atlantic, offered me a couple pieces of advice: 1. "A machine has no soul or feelings. Make a mistake and it will hurt you." 2. "Mother Nature doesn't plan her events around your life. Ignore the warning signs and it will hurt you." Young and frisky, I soon discovered both were true. Lucky as hell I survived when I overdrove the quick little outboard and put it deep into a marsh because I failed to negotiate a turn. Spun that bugger out. And I misjudged an incoming line storm and barely made it back to port before all holy hell broke loose. Pappy was roight, machines dpon't care, and niether does Motha Nature, one must use their tiny brains to control the events in their life... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 07:35:33 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 04:35:24 -0800 (PST) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Dammit Kitchell we're trying to save trees here! --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Is bandwitdth that expensive? > > --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > Maybe the list admin can include a message length > > limit for those not > > sharp enough to avoid quoting the entire digest > back > > for 4 lines of a > > reply? :-) ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 08:08:34 2003 Subject: Long Posts (again) (was: Re: Re: dealership recommendation) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 08:04:55 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 06:56, Tom Gimer wrote: > some of the folks i'm referring to are the lean-challenged > imbeciles Are they "lean" challenged [fat] or "lean" challenged [peg dragging]? I've dragged pegs on my Softail. It doesn't take much. Now I'm a bit lean challenged on the Suzuki as well (check the flat spot on my rear tire :-) But I like speed better than lean. (oh, and I'm a little 'lean' challenged [fat] too :-) > on 1340cc hds Well. 1450cc if we're talking about the newer models and not including the Screaming Eagles (either mods or factory customs). > that we run into constantly in the > mountains. rolling butt-plugs for the most part and an > embarrassment to the Non poser, sport bike, off-road [did I forget anyone?] > biking community (especially when they > have beer stops along the way). You should stop by and tell them why they shouldn't be out riding some time ;-) > we ran into a group of 10 > or so in wva recently who were literally finishing up their > beers in the gas station parking lot. hmm. sounds > somewhat similar to a battleys get together. > Hmm. Actually it sounds a lot like last year's end-of-year dc-cycles get together in Annendale? Arlington? Alexandria? Lots of sport bikes. A couple three Harleys and lots of fun. At least, I enjoyed it. Too bad there wasn't one this year. I would have liked showing up on the Suzuki :-) Maybe next year I'll be able to show up on the chopper. > -- > tg > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:10:57 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: Subject: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:11:29 -0500 Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be influenced by the thoughts and words around you. Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, practice and more practice so I would like to think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I eased out the throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly straight line and I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the Hough principle of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass because the rear tire fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic of powered cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would like to know. I did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this characteristic of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me problems in the future. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:16:00 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:05:42 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hugh Caldwell De-lurked, and posted: >Dammit Kitchell we're trying to save trees here! > >--- Mark Kitchell wrote: >> Is bandwitdth that expensive? [Dave] Screw the trees, we can grow more.... SAVE THE ELECTRONS ! Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:18:50 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:18:35 -0500 Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher gear. Much smoother. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:11 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: More Weirdness in the cold Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be influenced by the thoughts and words around you. Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, practice and more practice so I would like to think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I eased out the throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly straight line and I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the Hough principle of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass because the rear tire fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic of powered cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would like to know. I did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this characteristic of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me problems in the future. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:24:10 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:24:43 -0500 X-Spam-Level: * I think someone is trying to pad their mail list stats! Least original content awards isn't that prestigious. Rob On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:08:35 -0500 (EST), Wayne Edelen wrote > Maybe the list admin can include a message length limit for those not > sharp enough to avoid quoting the entire digest back for 4 lines of a > reply? :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, SHANESR74@XXXXXX wrote: > > > speaking of clinton cycles, > > if you go my friend Joedy Peoples is the sales manager. If you go tell him shane read > > your post and sent you in. Joedy is a good guy and he is pretty knowledgable. > > shane > [... snip entire message (using pine no less!)...] -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:26:07 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:26:36 -0500 X-Spam-Level: * The VFR list is very strict on removing the un-need quoting from messages. Your message gets bounced if you include the "VFR mail list signature" in any of your replies. Rob On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 19:50:29 -0800 (PST), Mark Kitchell wrote > Is bandwitdth that expensive? > > --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > Maybe the list admin can include a message length > > limit for those not > > sharp enough to avoid quoting the entire digest back > > for 4 lines of a > > reply? :-) > > > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > > On Wed, 3 Dec 2003, SHANESR74@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > > speaking of clinton cycles, > > > if you go my friend Joedy Peoples is the sales > > manager. If you go tell him shane read > > > your post and sent you in. Joedy is a good guy > > and he is pretty knowledgable. > > > shane > > [... snip entire message (using pine no less!)...] > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:29:46 2003 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Jim McGonigle" , Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:30:19 -0500 so you are telling me to not use the clutch to shift? and am also hoping to get explanation of why a hard shift causes rear wheel to jink. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" ; Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher gear. Much smoother. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:11 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: More Weirdness in the cold Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be influenced by the thoughts and words around you. Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, practice and more practice so I would like to think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I eased out the throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly straight line and I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the Hough principle of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass because the rear tire fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic of powered cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would like to know. I did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this characteristic of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me problems in the future. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:29:52 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:30:24 -0500 > hmmm.... perhaps at the top of this message!?!? you've > admittedly re-learned accident-prevention-and-avoidance > techniques vicariously. Damn never argue with a lawyer unless you are one too. > > alternatively, in 1000 miles of parking lot practice and > travel to and from the seasonal battleys hotdog fairs, > you've comfortably covered all conceivable road hazards. mmmm hotdogs. > > -- > tg > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:36:10 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" , Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:35:55 -0500 Right, by using the clutch you took all the power off the back wheel and then reapplied it all just a split second later. Causes a loss of traction (or jink). By not using the clutch the difference in power applied to wheel is not as severe resulting in less "jinking" or other things like wheels lifting, etc... -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:30 AM To: Jim McGonigle; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold so you are telling me to not use the clutch to shift? and am also hoping to get explanation of why a hard shift causes rear wheel to jink. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" ; Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher gear. Much smoother. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:11 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: More Weirdness in the cold Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be influenced by the thoughts and words around you. Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, practice and more practice so I would like to think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I eased out the throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly straight line and I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the Hough principle of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass because the rear tire fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic of powered cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would like to know. I did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this characteristic of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me problems in the future. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:37:28 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:37:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > Hugh Caldwell De-lurked, and posted: > > >Dammit Kitchell we're trying to save trees here! > > > >--- Mark Kitchell wrote: > >> Is bandwitdth that expensive? > > [Dave] Screw the trees, we can grow more.... > > SAVE THE ELECTRONS ! > Dave Yates Conserve Entropy. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:42:58 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Jim McGonigle" , "'Julian Halton'" , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:43:29 -0500 On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:18:35 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote > Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. > I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of > doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) > and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher > gear. Much smoother. Yep I do it on my truck all the time. Bike is a hell of a lot easier to shift clutch-less. I can usually do you and down shift on the bike and only upshift on the truck... Do they make an automatic transmission bikes? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:49:07 2003 From: "Danny Thompson" To: "Dc-Cycles@XXXXXX" Cc: "Julian Halton" Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:48:23 -0500 Julian Use the clutch. Unless you are on a racetrack and/or can afford to replace driveline parts sooner than is necessary, use the clutch. In your example it was simply a matter of the rear tire loosing grip due to the sudden addition of force when you "dropped the clutch" after you had most likely added to much throttle, or not let off the throttle, because you were trying to start fast. If you had let the clutch out just a little slower, or had better throttle control, you would not have the problem. (Of course in a bit of a contradiction, letting the clutch out slowly too long, too much, will accelerate the wear of the clutch plates). If you do a clutchless shift as recommended (because you want to accelerate at the maximum velocity) you may still get the squirrelly rear, though less likely because the engine doesn't have time to rev. The clutch will let you control how quickly you put the power to the rear wheel. Smooth is better... ALWAYS! You didn't mention what bike you have so I am assuming it is chain driven and crotch rocket type bike. If not you may have simply hit a slick spot in the road. Were you in the center of the lane? Was it as you pulled away from a stop sign/light? We would really need a little more info to provide you with better feedback. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:30 AM To: Jim McGonigle; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold so you are telling me to not use the clutch to shift? and am also hoping to get explanation of why a hard shift causes rear wheel to jink. thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Julian Halton'" ; Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:18 AM Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher gear. Much smoother. -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:11 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: More Weirdness in the cold Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be influenced by the thoughts and words around you. Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, practice and more practice so I would like to think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I eased out the throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly straight line and I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the Hough principle of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass because the rear tire fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic of powered cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would like to know. I did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this characteristic of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me problems in the future. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 11/27/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 11/27/2003 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:53:22 2003 Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 09:49:44 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 09:43, Rob Sharp wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:18:35 -0500, Jim McGonigle wrote > > Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. > > I had the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of > > doing it. Just preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) > > and then blip the throttle and it will just slide in the higher > > gear. Much smoother. > > Yep I do it on my truck all the time. Bike is a hell of a lot easier to shift > clutch-less. I can usually do you and down shift on the bike and only upshift > on the truck... > I've shifted accidentally on both bikes with no discernable problems. > Do they make an automatic transmission bikes? > I'm not sure about now but the Hondamatic was an automatic transmission and there's some sort of add on automatic shifter on the market. It looks like it attaches to the shifter. There was a Hondamatic in pretty good condition at the bike lot a week or so ago. It had a shifter and what looks like a clutch but there was a little window on the right side handgrip that showed what gear you were in (his was at '1'). > > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 09:55:53 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:23:55 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Julian asserted: >Regardless of what anyone says, it is human nature to be >influenced by the thoughts and words around you. [Dave] Depends on who's around you doing the talking. A teacher of mine had a plaque which read: "it's tough to soar with the eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys"... > Last night, I was out on a deserted flat road I know well >and I was thinking about performance and the fact that I was >sitting on top of an engine that could supposedly propel be >to 60 miles per hour un under 2.8 seconds. While nothing >athletic ever came naturally, I am an advocate of practice, >practice and more practice so I would like to >think I have good,reflexes, agility and balance especially >after 14 years of training. I thought I would practice a >fast start with no real idea of how one trains to become >fast without doing something silly. I eased out the >throttle and once moving cranked it. ...the rear tire >fish-tailed..in a straight line!. [Dave] Not enough info - what kind of tire?, how much cold pressure? what temp (ambient)? How much warm up for the tire (s)? what's the hp/tq output of your bike? how much does the bike & you weigh? what bike are we talking about here? what rpm did you shift at? never mind... generally, once you're rolling on warm tires, you should have good enough traction for a good upshift to 2nd, but not necessarily a WFO drag race upshift. If you want to learn that type of skill, go to MIR midgnight madness a few times & practice it in a controlled environment. On the street, RIDE like you're on the street.... Is the half a tenth of a second you save on a drag race upshift worth it ? Check out Wayne's drag race vid from a few days back... Fast, smooth and impressive. He's a better launcher than me... I've spun out of the hole, wheelied out of the hole, wheelied and spun out of the hole, and lots of other antics learning I'm not that good at drag racing ;-) WTH, it's fun though... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 10:01:15 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:15:33 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > Did you shift using the clutch? If so that's probably the problem. I had > the same type of issues until Wayne told me the right way of doing it. Just > preload the gear shift (put upward pressure on it) and then blip the > throttle and it will just slide in the higher gear. Much smoother. I'm guessing the tire was spinning and he was not aware. Even on straight, flat pavement the bike will wander a bit when the rear tire is spinning. Pedal it (don't close the throttle!), clutch it or ride it out. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 10:05:23 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Danny Thompson" , "Dc-Cycles@XXXXXX" Cc: "Julian Halton" Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:03:28 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danny Thompson" > Julian > > Use the clutch. Unless you are on a racetrack and/or can afford to replace > driveline parts sooner than is necessary, use the clutch. > > In your example it was simply a matter of the rear tire loosing grip due to > the sudden addition of force when you "dropped the clutch" after you had > most likely added to much throttle, or not let off the throttle, because you > were trying to start fast. .... Here's what I do, a "light" squeeze on the clutch lever and a quick "blip" of the throttle both unload the drive train for a shift. You should not completely disengage the clutch. And it's really quick, so the rear tire never quite realizes what's going on. On a close ratio transmission like the VFR the shifting is smooth as buttah, both up and down the gears, and no untoward effects like spinning up or chirping the rear tire. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 10:31:19 2003 Subject: RE: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:31:11 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Julian Halton" , I recommend that you look into the "2nd gear problem", what causes it, and how to prevent it. (www.r6messagenet.com) I don't know what you mean by "hard shifts", but you are facing the possibility of ending up with an R6 that accelerates no better than a minivan in 2nd gear, just like mine. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] I thought I would practice a fast start with no > real idea of how > one trains to become fast without doing something silly. I > eased out the > throttle and once moving cranked it. I was in a perfectly > straight line and > I did a hard shift into second. I was already violating the > Hough principle > of "smooth it goes" and I almost bit myself in the ass > because the rear tire > fish-tailed..in a straight line!. If it is a characteristic > of powered > cycles that when you shift hard the rear wheel jerks I would > like to know. I > did not panic and remained stable but am concerned that this > characteristic > of wither the bike, tire, or how I shift could cause me > problems in the > future. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:00:59 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:46:19 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 03:39 AM 12/4/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >> >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar >> >> experiences) is what did >> >> it for me. Thanks! :^) >> > >> >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the condition >> of >> >your hog. >> >> Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. >> >> >email lists can hardly be considered a good substitute >> for >> >miles in the saddle. >> >> Of course not. Where did I say they were? > >hmmm.... perhaps at the top of this message!?!? you've >admittedly re-learned accident-prevention-and-avoidance >techniques vicariously. Perhaps you should go demand your money back from your reading teacher? Or perhaps your logic instructor from lawyer school? You don't seem to have learned much from either of them. "I learned that it's wise to be cautious by hearing of the misfortunes of others" is not at all the same as "hearing about others' experiences is a good substitute for my own experience". Are you a member of the American Non-Sequitur Society? Got their motto, "We don't make sense, but we do like pizza!" tattooed on your chest? >alternatively, in 1000 miles of parking lot practice and >travel to and from the seasonal battleys hotdog fairs, >you've comfortably covered all conceivable road hazards. Yeah, I think you must be a founding member... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:00:59 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:58:24 -0500 To: Tom Gimer From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 03:56 AM 12/4/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 10:27 AM 12/3/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >> >> For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the >> first week riding >> around my neighborhood and at the local high school >> parking lot after hours >> working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's >> handling and >> control location. > >i swear.... it must be the length of the posts because this >guy can't seem to make it through a single post without >spewing some amount of hot air. I think the spewing is occurring much closer to you than that...you can't seem to make it through a post without being a rude MF. Did you get your personality with your law degree, or were you already a rude bastard? >the maryland road test doesn't prepare you for shit. No, it doesn't. Being able to pass it does though. You can't pass it if you can't handle the bike, especially at slow speeds. That makes the maneuvers that make it up a good minimum standard for when you might be able to work the bike well enough to have a chance in traffic. If you can't do them, you shouldn't be on the road yet. They are certainly a good starting point when learning to ride a new bike, and I've used them each time I've done that. >nothing prepares one for the unexpected >like being involved, time after time, with the unexpected. >brain dead cagers, cell phone yakkers, oblivious reversers, >gravel, deer, morning dew, cold tires, centerline straddlers, etc. Yep, and almost 30 years of driving has taught me a lot that remains valuable when I'm on the bike. Being more vulnerable to errors, my own or others, doesn't change the behavior of others much. They still do the same stupid things they did when I was in a VW bug, a pickup truck, a Toyota or a Mercury Cougar, among others. The bike adds some new threats (like wet leaves in a turn), and reading about them here is very valuable in reducing that threat. Knowledge is power, and can sometimes let you avoid collecting an unpleasant experience. One thing that raises man above the lower animals is the ability to learn from the experiences of others. Perhaps that doesn't apply to lawyers who ride Italian bikes, but it does to me. >have beer stops along the way). we ran into a group of 10 >or so in wva recently who were literally finishing up their >beers in the gas station parking lot. hmm. sounds >somewhat similar to a battleys get together. Except for the beer. And the gas station. And there being only 10 of them. Other than that, it's a dead ringer alright. Your powers of observation are truly amazing. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:20:24 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) Content-ID: <12076.1070554816.1@XXXXXX> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:20:16 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >Your message gets bounced if you include the "VFR mail list signature" in any >of your replies. We cannot allow a digest quoting gap to exist! So we do that too now. There's now also a message limit in place, albeit still a very large one. Note that it represents how long a message can be, not how long it _should_ be. Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping filter. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:32:14 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 08:31:54 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 09:43, Rob Sharp wrote: > Do they make an automatic transmission bikes? One of the current mags contains a report that one of the Italian marques (Gilera?) now being economically resuscitated is about to introduce a bike with an 850cc twin and a fully autoamtic transmission. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:33:14 2003 Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 11:29:36 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 11:20, Harry Mantakos wrote: > Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping > filter. Have Gimer do it ;-) > -harry > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 11:49:11 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: no further comment needed. Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:47:36 -0500 -----------------"Mike Bartman" wrote: "Tom Gimer" wrote: > >the maryland road test doesn't prepare you for shit. > No, it doesn't. Being able to pass it does though. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 12:28:08 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:28:01 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 09:43, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > Do they make an automatic transmission bikes? > > One of the current mags contains a report that one of the > Italian marques (Gilera?) now being economically > resuscitated > is about to introduce a bike with an 850cc twin and a fully > autoamtic transmission. Correction -- it was Paiggio, and there's an article on motorcycledaily.com. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 12:34:34 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'pltrgyst@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:39:19 -0500 It's the Gilera Ferro 850 V-twin with a Piaggio/Gilera selectable auto or pushbutton transmission. Gilera isn't necessarily being resuscitated, for a while they've been making tons of scooters for the non-American market. Think Aprilia. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [SMTP:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 12:28 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More > Weirdness in the cold > > > --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 09:43, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > > > Do they make an automatic transmission bikes? > > > > One of the current mags contains a report that one of the > > Italian marques (Gilera?) now being economically > > resuscitated > > is about to introduce a bike with an 850cc twin and a fully > > autoamtic transmission. > > Correction -- it was Paiggio, and there's an article on > motorcycledaily.com. > > -- Larry > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 12:43:48 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:44:31 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Harry laid a pop quiz smackdown on the list: >Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping >filter. >-harry [Dave] Bounce and auto reply at the server ? Auto reply would contain something like "This message is being sent to you because you were too stupid to follow instructions..." Just a thought or 2... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 12:58:34 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:58:24 EST Subject: Re: Overconfidance - was dealer rec To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/4/2003 7:25:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > > offered me a couple pieces of > advice: Good ones. Mine is, "A motorcycle is really smart. The moment you climb on and say "I have you mastered" it will look up and you and say "The hell you do" And throw you on the ground. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 13:18:08 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:17:53 EST Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX There have been several automatic transmission bikes over the years, Honda built two a 400cc and a 750cc, Guzzi built at least one, I _think_ it was 1000cc. and even Husky built a fully automatic dirt bike 400cc. None of them sold worth a damn. And lets not forget scooters. (By far my favorite of the automatics was the Husky, it was _tiny_ smaller then the standard transmission. A really clever design. The only downside was that there was _no,_ and I mean OMYGODHOLYSHIT _NO!!_ compression braking. If you were used to even the most pathetic two cycle (very little compression braking) it felt like someone came up behind you and _pushed_ when you rolled off the throttle. You had to be damn good with the brakes to ride the thing.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 13:23:59 2003 Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 13:23:43 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 13:17, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > There have been several automatic transmission bikes over the years, Don't forget that a lot of Honda and Yamaha (prob suz and kaw too? I don't have experience with them) 50cc and 80cc dirt bikes are automatics, so kids don't have to start out learning how to shift. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 13:27:41 2003 Subject: Janklow update From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 13:27:24 -0500 THe congressman is going to trial. Hope he gets what he deserves. http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=7957 - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 13:30:41 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Brian Roach" , Subject: Re: Janklow update Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:29:52 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Roach" To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:27 PM Subject: Janklow update > THe congressman is going to trial. Hope he gets what he deserves. > > http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/scripts/NewsInsert.asp?insert=7957 > > - Roach > Going to trial, nay, is on trial, this week. Prosecution rested its case yesterday after two days of testimony. Best info source: www.argusleader.com the daily rag in Sioux Falls. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:15:54 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:11:43 -0500 To: Harry Mantakos , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) At 11:20 AM 12/4/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: >There's now also a message limit in place, albeit still a very large one. What is the limit? Is it in lines, or as a ratio of new text to quoted text? The latter would seem to be more useful in limiting unnecessary noise and accidental inclusion of an entire digest in a reply. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:15:56 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:13:08 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) At 11:29 AM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 11:20, Harry Mantakos wrote: > >> Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping >> filter. > >Have Gimer do it ;-) I suspect he's a large part of the reason such a thing is seen as necessary... he's certainly why I'd want one. It would remove most of his posts entirely. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:21:26 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 11:21:17 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > What is the limit? Is it in lines, or as a ratio of new > text to quoted text? The latter would seem to be more > useful... But Mike, we don't want your posts to disappear... 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:27:12 2003 Subject: Filters (was: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03)) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 14:23:34 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 14:13, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:29 AM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 11:20, Harry Mantakos wrote: > > > >> Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping > >> filter. > > > >Have Gimer do it ;-) > > I suspect he's a large part of the reason such a thing is seen as necessary... > he's certainly why I'd want one. It would remove most of his posts entirely. > Actually I read it as creating a filter that would bitch-slap someone when an inappropriate message was sent, although I can see your interpretation. I guess I'd call it a flame filter. Use Eudora's "hot pepper" algorithm to filter them out :-) And how about a duplicate post filter where any messages that includes a list member in addition to the list name would not have the message sent to them via the list: 1. Message sent to list. 2. Someone "reply-all"s the message so that sender's address and the list address is in the destination (to or cc). 3. List reviews destination line and drops the message to the individual as duplicate. :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:42:15 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:34:55 -0500 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) At 11:21 AM 12/4/03 -0800, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> What is the limit? Is it in lines, or as a ratio of new > >But Mike, we don't want your posts to disappear... 8;) Then you should definitely use the ratio method...just don't set it at one-to-one, or I'll have to post longer messages whether the content requires it or not. Maybe the ratio should only kick in if the post is longer than a dozen or so lines? -- Mike B. "The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 14:42:19 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:42:12 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Filters (was: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digestfor 12/03/03)) At 02:23 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >I guess I'd call it a flame filter. Use Eudora's "hot pepper" algorithm >to filter them out :-) That would remove the vulgar flames, but not the really clever ones. Americans aren't very good at insults compared to, say, Brits. A Brit can rip you a new one without ever using an exclamation point or an improper word. Such a filter would be an improvement though, by promoting a better class of flames and encouraging vocabulary-building. :^) >And how about a duplicate post filter where any messages that includes a >list member in addition to the list name would not have the message sent >to them via the list: That would be cool, but it might take more than just a little filtering. Don't know how the list software is written though...maybe it could be done easily. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 15:37:23 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 15:36:23 -0500 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: and so it begins there's snow flying in Herndon. well, flying might be a bit of an overstatement, but theres snow falling. --skip, bikeless, says, "bread milk and toilet paper" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 15:39:28 2003 Subject: RE: and so it begins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:39:21 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Skip" , "DC Cycles" Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > -----Original Message----- > From: Skip [mailto:skip@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:36 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: and so it begins > > > there's snow flying in Herndon. > > well, flying might be a bit of an overstatement, but theres > snow falling. > > --skip, bikeless, says, "bread milk and toilet paper" > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 15:45:31 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:14:54 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Filters (was: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digestfor 12/03/03)) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Look Ma! No reply-all ! >A Brit can rip you a new one without ever using an >exclamation point or an improper word. [Dave] So what? They talk funny. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 15:49:15 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 12:49:02 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > >But Mike, we don't want your posts to disappear... 8;) > > Then you should definitely use the ratio method...just > don't set it at one-to-one, or I'll have to post > longer messages whether the content requires it or not. I think that as long as your .sig remains longer than the digest, you're safe. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 15:59:23 2003 Subject: RE: and so it begins From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Dec 2003 15:55:36 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 15:39, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > Rita says it started snowing at 2pm in Manassas. I'm on my way out the door in 10 minutes on the Suzuki. East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:04:27 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: and so it begins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:04:15 -0500 Careful out there. Everybody goes and gets milk and bread. I go and get dvds, beer and buffalo wings. Yeah. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:56 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: and so it begins On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 15:39, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > Rita says it started snowing at 2pm in Manassas. I'm on my way out the door in 10 minutes on the Suzuki. East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:09:02 2003 Subject: RE: and so it begins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:09:36 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Silver, Arthur \(NIH/NIGMS\)" , "Carl Schelin" , As much as love riding, if the shit is going to fall, let it snarl the city that means no work...:) -----Original Message----- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) [mailto:Silvera@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 4:04 PM To: 'Carl Schelin'; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: and so it begins Careful out there. Everybody goes and gets milk and bread. I go and get dvds, beer and buffalo wings. Yeah. -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:56 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: and so it begins On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 15:39, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > Rita says it started snowing at 2pm in Manassas. I'm on my way out the door in 10 minutes on the Suzuki. East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:30:06 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: and so it begins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 16:28:22 -0500 Yup, since the wusses at Metro, formerly known as an all-weather transport system, have unilaterally decided not to run the above-ground portions of their network in the event of a snowstorm, I'll be staying home if/when we have a heavy snow. Either that or I need a mountain bike. Paul in DC, who dislikes weather weenies and TP hoarders 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" > As much as love riding, if the shit is going to fall, let it snarl the > city that means no work...:) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) [mailto:Silvera@XXXXXX] > > Careful out there. Everybody goes and gets milk and bread. I go and get > dvds, beer and buffalo wings. Yeah. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:47:43 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:47:34 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:39 AM 12/4/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> At 10:01 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >> >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> > >> >> And hearing about you (or others who had similar > >> >> experiences) is what did > >> >> it for me. Thanks! :^) > >> > > >> >yeah, right. please do keep us updated on the > >> >condition of your hog. > >> > >> Very right. Willdo. At the moment it's just fine. > >> > >> >email lists can hardly be considered a good > >> >substitute for miles in the saddle. > >> > >> Of course not. Where did I say they were? > > > >hmmm.... perhaps at the top of this message!?!? you've > >admittedly re-learned accident-prevention-and-avoidance > >techniques vicariously. > > Perhaps you should go demand your money back from your > reading teacher? Or > perhaps your logic instructor from lawyer school? You > don't seem to have > learned much from either of them. > > "I learned that it's wise to be cautious by hearing of > the misfortunes of > others" is not at all the same as "hearing about others' > experiences is a > good substitute for my own experience". let me get this straight. i posted a note to the effect that newbies (as a result of their inexperience) are much more likely to become hood ornaments than more experienced riders when faced with the same unexpected road hazard. someone else chimed in to the effect that (despite their misplaced confidence) newbies don't become more careful until they've crashed at least once. this same author contributed his own story: >After a couple months of riding, finding myself sliding along the >road on my butt, watching sparks fly up from the grinding metal >of my previously flawless brand new bike was the experience that >first learned me some careful. your response ("And hearing about you (or others who had similar experiences) is what did it for me. Thanks! :^)") suggests that you didn't read the post. the author's point (and mine by way of a follow up) was, until you crash as a result of exceeding your own newbie abilities, you don't know what those abilities are. you don't know how much attention is required to be spent on road conditions until the road conditions bite your ass. you don't know just how careful you have to be with tire pressures and temperatures until those same conditions fuck you. your smartass retort to the extent that you somehow became wiser as a result of someone else's crash story is exactly what i should have expected from an overconfident newbie. this is further supported by your belief that, in <1000 miles, you're "back up to speed" after a long layoff. the maryland rider's test i'm sure produces a number of dead rider graduates each year who felt they were invincible -- all because some shithead didn't fail them for inevitably putting their goddamn foot down on the slow u-turn. > Are you a member of the American Non-Sequitur Society? > Got their motto, > "We don't make sense, but we do like pizza!" tattooed on > your chest? > > >alternatively, in 1000 miles of parking lot practice and > >travel to and from the seasonal battleys hotdog fairs, > >you've comfortably covered all conceivable road hazards. > > Yeah, I think you must be a founding member... think what you will. i can be an asshole on this list at times (and in fact have made it a goal when the right situation presents itself) and some of your posts beg for SOMEONE to do so, so..... despite your recently learned care, the odds are sooo damn good that you will crash. the odds are perhaps greater that i will crash again. this is part of the sport. believing that you're now somehow careful enough to avoid it is downright stupid. perhaps that wasn't your intention, but that's the message i got from your post. i apologize for the jumbled mess of quotes above. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:48:35 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 13:48:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: and so it begins To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX lemon law? --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 15:39, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network > & Online > Services wrote: > > Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > > > > Rita says it started snowing at 2pm in Manassas. I'm on > my way out the > door in 10 minutes on the Suzuki. > > East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday > (when the parts > arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? > > Carl > > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:59:55 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:56:12 -0500 To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/03/03) At 12:49 PM 12/4/03 -0800, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> >But Mike, we don't want your posts to disappear... 8;) >> >> Then you should definitely use the ratio method...just >> don't set it at one-to-one, or I'll have to post >> longer messages whether the content requires it or not. > >I think that as long as your .sig remains longer than the >digest, you're safe. My sig file is only 7 lines long. I do have longer ones available... -- Mike B. (no I won't be using the following one again... :^) DISCLAIMER: This humor may not reflect the thoughts or opinions of either myself, my company, my friends, or my university; then again it may; don't quote me on that; don't quote me on anything; all rights reserved; this message is distributed copyrighted to the extent that you may distribute this message and all its associated parts freely but you may not make a profit from it or include the jokes in commercial publications without written permission from the President of the United States or his successor; other copyright laws for specific jokes apply wherever noted; jokes are subject to change without notice; jokes are slightly enlarged to show detail; any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is unintentional and purely coincidental; hand wash only, tumble dry on low heat; do not bend, fold, mutilate, or spindle; your mileage may vary; no substitutions allowed; for a limited time only; this humorous offer is void where prohibited, taxed, or otherwise restricted; humor is provided "as is" without any warranties expressed or implied; user assumes full liabilities; not liable for damages due to use or misuse; an equal opportunity joke employer; no shoes, no shirt, no problem!; quantities are limited while supplies last; if defects are discovered, do not attempt to fix them yourself, but return to an authorized joke service center; caveat emptor; read at your own risk; parental advisory - explicit lyrics; text may contain material some readers may find objectionable, parental guidance is advised; keep away from sunlight, pets, and small children; limit one-per-family please; no money down; no purchase necessary; you need not be present to win; some assembly required; batteries are not included; action figures sold separately; no preservatives added; safety goggles may be required during use; sealed for your protection, do not use if the safety seal is broken; call before you dig; for external use only; if a rash, redness, irritation, or swelling develops, discontinue use; use only with proper ventilation; avoid extreme temperatures and store in a cool dry place; keep away from open flames and avoid inhaling fumes; avoid contact with mucous membranes; do not puncture, incinerate, or store above 50 degrees Centigrade; do not place near flammable or magnetic source; smoking these jokes may be hazardous to your health; the best safeguard, second only to abstinence, is the use of a good laugh; text used in these jokes is made from 100% recycled electrons and magnetic particles; no animals were used to test the hilarity of these jokes; no salt, MSG, artificial color or flavor added; if ingested, do not induce vomiting, if symptoms persist, consult a humorologist; jokes are ribbed for your pleasure; slippery when wet; must be 18 to enter; possible penalties for early withdrawal; joke offer valid only at participating E-mail sites; slightly higher on top of the Rockies; allow four to six weeks for delivery; disclaimer does not cover hurricane, lightning, tornado, tsunami, volcanic eruption, earthquake, flood, and other Acts of God or other deities, misuse, neglect, unauthorized repair, damage from improper installation, broken antenna or marred cabinet, incorrect line voltage, missing or altered serial numbers, sonic boom vibrations, electromagnetic radiation from nuclear blasts, customer adjustments that are not covered in the joke manual, and incidents owing to airplane crash, ship sinking, motor vehicle accidents, leaky roof, broken glass, falling rocks, mud slides, forest fire, flying projectiles, or dropping the item; other restrictions may apply. Jokes in mirror may be larger than they appear. If something offends you, lighten up, get a life, and move on. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 16:59:56 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:59:51 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: and so it begins At 03:55 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts >arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? They seem to take a while getting parts...have you considered going to another dealer yourself and picking them up? Battley's has told me they can generally get anything they carry in under a week, and so far they've had everything I've wanted, with the exception of leather pants in my size, in the store already. The pants took 5 days. I haven't needed a fuel pump or turn signal module though. -- Mike B. [This sigfile intentionally left blank] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:00:01 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 16:52:10 -0500 To: Skip , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: and so it begins At 03:36 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Skip wrote: >well, flying might be a bit of an overstatement, but theres snow falling. > >--skip, bikeless, says, "bread milk and toilet paper" I've never understood why there's always a run on toilet paper when it snows. The stuff doesn't really spoil, and most people have enough to last at least a couple of weeks already, so why, in an area where the snow has always been gone in a week or less, do they suddenly need to clear the shelves of it? Weird. On a more on-topic note, would it be easier to ride a bike in the snow and ice if you had a sand/kitty-litter dispenser mounted on the front of the front fender? Just wondering... -- Mike B. "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose that freedom, and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose those too." -- Somerset Maugham From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:13:27 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:13:18 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > ....the odds are perhaps greater > that i will crash again. this is part of the sport. This delusion on the part of most sportsbike riders is what *will* eventually kill motorcycling on public roads. DRIVING ANY LICENSED VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT A SPORT. Irresponsible sportbikers and the AMA are in a directly analogous situation to irresponsible assault weapon owners within the NRA. Unfortunately, the NRA has a lot more political clout than the AMA. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:13:53 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:28:10 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Riding in snow (was Re: and so it begins) On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > On a more on-topic note, would it be easier to ride a bike in the snow and > ice if you had a sand/kitty-litter dispenser mounted on the front of the > front fender? Just wondering... > > -- Mike B. Speaking of on topic and snow riding, I saw a cool bike coming out from Yammie next year. 2wd YZ450F (I think that was the model #). It features a hydraulic drive system for the front wheel developed in conjunction with Ohlins. Very cool tech that they've tested on an R1. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:25:16 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:25:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: and so it begins To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Obviously you don't work for the same company I work for. For years when NASA HQ closed down we didn't go to work and got the day off. Now we have to go to the local company offices and sit on our thumbs (hey, I'm a network geek and my gear is at the office; what else do I do?) Carl --- Julian Halton wrote: > As much as love riding, if the shit is going to fall, let it snarl the > city that means no work...:) > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:26:02 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:24:50 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Skip , DC Cycles Subject: Re: and so it begins Mike Bartman wrote: > I've never understood why there's always a run on toilet paper when it > snows. The stuff doesn't really spoil, and most people have enough to last > at least a couple of weeks already, so why, in an area where the snow has > always been gone in a week or less, do they suddenly need to clear the > shelves of it? Weird. Then you've never lived with several females. Doesn't matter if they're folders or crumplers, females use an immense of TP. > On a more on-topic note, would it be easier to ride a bike in the snow and > ice if you had a sand/kitty-litter dispenser mounted on the front of the > front fender? Just wondering... Problem - what to do with the herd of cats following you? > -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:34:02 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:33:59 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > DRIVING > ANY LICENSED VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT A SPORT. I respectfully disagree. It is a public road. When I am required to state the reason for being on the road, this is no longer a free country. If it isn't a sport, then Rep. Janklow goes free, he was on his way home from a political event (doing his job) Mr. Scott was just out joy-riding (riding for sport) Leon Begeman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:36:43 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:36:40 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > lemon law? http://cartalk.cars.com/Got-A-Car/Lemon/States/lemon_virginia.html The basics here are: If you have taken the car in for at least three unsuccessful repair attempts for the same defect, and the defect continues to exist; Or, if you have taken the car in for at least one unsuccessful repair attempt for a serious safety defect; Or, if the car has been out of service for a cumulative total of 30 or more business days , and the defect continues to exist. === They've repaired the various problems (spacer, fuel assembly) and are in the middle of repairing the current one (although the parts guy said valve assembly, possibly mixing it up with the previous issue). It seems that it has to be something that they haven't been able to resolve or in the case of the last one, more than 30 _business_ days and the defect continues, all within 18 months of delivery (end of this month). Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:39:25 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 17:53:39 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > They've repaired the various problems (spacer, fuel assembly) and are in > the middle of repairing the current one (although the parts guy said valve > assembly, possibly mixing it up with the previous issue). > > It seems that it has to be something that they haven't been able to > resolve or in the case of the last one, more than 30 _business_ days and > the defect continues, all within 18 months of delivery (end of this > month). > > Carl Also, there is a lot of documentation along the way that goes into a successful lemon law buyback. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:41:00 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: and so it begins To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:55 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts > >arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? > > They seem to take a while getting parts... Yea. That's what I'm concerned about. They have this big new building and probably just have t-shirts and jackets in the back. You'd think it wouldn't take so much time. > have you considered going to > another dealer yourself and picking them up? s/ yourself and picking them up// (just going to another dealer for you non-unix geeks :-) The guy at the office keeps pinging me to go to Whitts next time. I may have to. > Battley's has told me they > can generally get anything they carry in under a week, and so far > they've > had everything I've wanted, with the exception of leather pants in my > size, > in the store already. The pants took 5 days. Wait until a repair comes up then see. > I haven't needed a fuel > pump > or turn signal module though. > *knock wood* > -- Mike B. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 17:46:01 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 14:45:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > They've repaired the various problems (spacer, fuel assembly) and are > in > > the middle of repairing the current one (although the parts guy said > valve > > assembly, possibly mixing it up with the previous issue). > > > > It seems that it has to be something that they haven't been able to > > resolve or in the case of the last one, more than 30 _business_ days > and > > the defect continues, all within 18 months of delivery (end of this > > month). > > > > Carl > > Also, there is a lot of documentation along the way that goes into a > successful lemon law buyback. > We've kept the receipts of all the repairs and other purchases so those docs aren't an issue. I can send a letter and considering the two and a half months in the shop over the past 17 months I'm sure I have some extension time coming if necessary. I think the big thing is that they can't repair the problem. The 30 business days seems to be my only real option and they've only had it since two weeks ago. Nine business days. They have 21 business days left to fix it. Carl > -- Wayne > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:02:17 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: dealership recommendation Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:07:07 -0500 Oh, see now you're just spewing PURE garbage. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [SMTP:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:13 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: dealership recommendation > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > ....the odds are perhaps greater > > that i will crash again. this is part of the sport. > > This delusion on the part of most sportsbike riders is what > *will* eventually kill motorcycling on public roads. DRIVING > ANY LICENSED VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT A SPORT. > > Irresponsible sportbikers and the AMA are in a directly > analogous situation to irresponsible assault weapon owners > within the NRA. Unfortunately, the NRA has a lot more > political clout than the AMA. > > -- Larry > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:07:49 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 17:55:23 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 01:47 PM 12/4/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >the author's point >(and mine by way of a follow up) was, until you crash as a >result of exceeding your own newbie abilities, you don't >know what those abilities are. you don't know how much >attention is required to be spent on road conditions until >the road conditions bite your ass. you don't know just how >careful you have to be with tire pressures and temperatures >until those same conditions fuck you. Have you forgotten that I'm not all that new? I rode for a number of years, ending about 12 years back. I'm new to Harleys (my old bikes were Yamaha and Honda), but not all that new to riding. I don't have a quarter million miles under my seat on a bike (I do on 4 wheels though), but I'm not exactly a 6-month newbie either. Given that reminder, how do you explain the fact that I haven't ended up sliding down a road yet, if your theories are correct? Am I just lucky, or might there be something to *my* point, about being able to learn from the mistakes of others, and thus avoid mistakes that might otherwise lead to "experience"? > this is further >supported by your belief that, in <1000 miles, you're "back >up to speed" after a long layoff. I said I was *getting* back up to speed. As in doing much better than I was 800 miles ago. I'm still cautious, but I'm widening the range of things I'll try on the bike as my ability to handle it grows (like taking I-270 up to Frederick a week ago, rather than using back roads with lower speed limits). I'm doing that a little at a time. I'm not going out and tearing up the roads and acting like a professional racer or like I've got a quarter million miles under my seat on a bike. I'm not, and I don't. Why am I not doing this, when apparently some new riders do? Because I've heard a lot about what happens to them when they do, and I don't want to do it myself. That's called "learning from the mistakes of others". If you aren't capable of that, and went out and dropped your first bike repeatedly, fine. I am and I didn't. I've learned plenty on my own too of course. I just don't limit things to that as you seem to be insisting on. >despite your recently learned care, the odds are sooo damn >good that you will crash. My care was learned decades ago, not recently, and in things other than motorcycling. I've applied the same system to shooting, pedal-bike riding, driving, flying, and every other potentially dangerous activity I've taken up. It's worked just fine for all of them. Haven't died, or even needed a trip to an emergency room, from any of them, and neither has anyone else. The odds against my crashing on my new bike are not zero, they aren't for anyone, but they are no worse than average, and probably better. Some people are just habitually overconfident. Some are adrenalin junkies. I'm not either of those. If anything, I go the other way. I take corners slower than is probably necessary, I don't ride when I'm tired, I don't drink and ride, I keep the tires inflated to recommended pressures, I try to practice new things in ways that will keep screwing them up from being dangerous, I wear good gear, etc.. I don't do those things because failure to do them has made me crash or otherwise harmed me...I do them because failure to follow those guidelines has made *others* crash or come to grief. I don't need to crash too to learn the lessons. If you do, you have my sympathy. > the odds are perhaps greater >that i will crash again. this is part of the sport. >believing that you're now somehow careful enough to avoid >it is downright stupid. perhaps that wasn't your >intention, but that's the message i got from your post. Then you didn't hear what I was saying. The start of this thread had to do with buying a bike. A recommendation that a new rider buy an old bike was made, and the reason was that all new riders drop or otherwise mess up their first bike within a few months (I think 6 months was mentioned), so why get a shiny new one? Get an old beater, and drop that until you learn. Then, maybe, consider a new one. I'm proof that not all new riders drop their bikes within a few months. I rode for a couple of years before I scratched my bike, and even then it was minor and easily fixed. Yes, some new riders do drop their bikes. My point was that some don't. Each person should take a good honest look at themselves and try to figure out which they are likely to be. I claim that the way I avoided it was to learn from the mistakes of others, and ride cautiously...pushing personal boundaries very gently and carefully. I didn't go out and try to ride like an expert right away...I started slow and advanced things slowly. It's worked for me. Was there any luck involved? Yes, some, but there was also deliberate planning involved to avoid those situations most likely to need luck. In flying circles they have a saying, "There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots". -- Mike B. ============================================================================== | I didn't really say all the things that I said. You probably didn't read | | what you thought you read. Statistics show that this whole thing is more | | than likely just a hideous misunderstanding. | ============================================================================ == From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:20:07 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:19:59 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: and so it begins Cc: Skip , DC Cycles At 05:24 PM 12/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> I've never understood why there's always a run on toilet paper when it >> snows. The stuff doesn't really spoil, and most people have enough to last > >Then you've never lived with several females. Doesn't matter if they're >folders or crumplers, females use an immense of TP. Yes, I'm well aware of the usage patterns, but that just meant that when there was a female living here we stocked more to start with. The size of a "couple of weeks supply" was larger, but it was still a couple of weeks supply. >> ice if you had a sand/kitty-litter dispenser mounted on the front of the >> front fender? Just wondering... > >Problem - what to do with the herd of cats following you? I heard it wasn't possible to herd cats...was I misinformed? -- Mike B. [This sigfile intentionally left blank] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:20:08 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:16:59 -0500 To: Wayne Edelen , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Riding in snow (was Re: and so it begins) At 05:28 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Speaking of on topic and snow riding, I saw a cool bike coming out from >Yammie next year. 2wd YZ450F (I think that was the model #). Sounds very interesting, and even more applicable to dirt bikes. I guess the handling would be very different, especially in low-traction situations. I wonder how much time it would take to get used to it? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:23:26 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:37:42 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > The odds against my crashing on my new bike are not zero, they aren't for > anyone, but they are no worse than average, and probably better. Not taking into account your self proclaimed proficiency at riding, you are in a high risk group of riders, Mike. Based on your posts, you have owned only 1 other motorcycle, an XT550. You have been away from riding for 12 years. You purchased a large, brand new motorcycle that handles poorly and has bad brakes. Unfortunately, a lot of riders returning to the sport and buying large bikes are the ones that are wrecking. You fit neatly into that category. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:26:29 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:22:52 -0500 To: Leon Begeman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 02:33 PM 12/4/03 -0800, Leon Begeman wrote: >It is a public road. When I am required to state the >reason for being on the road, this is no longer a free >country. Freedom isn't free. Responsibility is required. >If it isn't a sport, then Rep. Janklow goes >free, he was on his way home from a political event >(doing his job) Mr. Scott was just out joy-riding >(riding for sport) Actually, Mr. Scott was on his way home from a family event according to the stories I've read. Doesn't matter anyway...Janklow was being irresponsible, and whether riding is a sport or not, that's a punishable offense when it harms someone. -- Mike B. "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose that freedom, and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose those too." -- Somerset Maugham From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 18:46:22 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 18:45:13 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Skip , DC Cycles Subject: Re: and so it begins Mike Bartman wrote: > >> ice if you had a sand/kitty-litter dispenser mounted on the front of the > >> front fender? Just wondering... > > > >Problem - what to do with the herd of cats following you? > > I heard it wasn't possible to herd cats...was I misinformed? > > -- Mike B. > [This sigfile intentionally left blank] No, one can't herd cats, but they will pack up on their own. Try popping open a cooler fulla fresh caught fish when back at the dock and see for yourself :-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 19:10:18 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:10:50 -0500 I fell of my bike the DAY AFTER I finished my MSF course. Definitely the most important lesson I learned. So I have to agree that experience is the best teacher and hopeful you survive the lessons. You can listen to others all you want but you don't true appreciate those words until you have lived that experience yourself. Rob > the maryland rider's > test i'm sure produces a number of dead rider graduates > each year who felt they were invincible -- all because some > shithead didn't fail them for inevitably putting their > goddamn foot down on the slow u-turn. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 19:18:04 2003 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: In case you haven't seen the Dave Despain rant about NASCAR... Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:11:50 -0500 http://www.uponone.com/view_download.php?id=665&vt=1853798 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 19:40:15 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: In case you haven't seen the Dave Despain rant about NASCAR... Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 19:28:58 -0500 I think I pulled something laughing so hard! That was awesome. Thank you. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Gary Foreman" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: In case you haven't seen the Dave Despain rant about NASCAR... Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:11:50 -0500 http://www.uponone.com/view_download.php?id=665&vt=1853798 _________________________________________________________________ Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:05:01 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Carl Schelin" , Subject: Re: and so it begins Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:03:41 -0500 Only freezing rain in Bethesda, not slick yet. Going to gas up and put it away for tomorrow. Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Schelin" To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 3:55 PM Subject: RE: and so it begins > On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 15:39, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online > Services wrote: > > Same on Capitol Hill. Ride home should be fun. > > > > Rita says it started snowing at 2pm in Manassas. I'm on my way out the > door in 10 minutes on the Suzuki. > > East Coast still has the Harley at least until Tuesday (when the parts > arrive). Going on three weeks now. Wanna bet on a month? > > Carl > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:19:36 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:14:30 -0500 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: New rider risks (was: Re: dealership recommendation) At 06:37 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> The odds against my crashing on my new bike are not zero, they aren't for >> anyone, but they are no worse than average, and probably better. > >Not taking into account your self proclaimed proficiency at riding, you >are in a high risk group of riders, Mike. Who has somehow, over the course of several years of riding, avoided the dreaded "bike drop and slide". How have I managed to avoid this, apparently mandatory, happening within the first few months that I rode? I'm not saying I can handle something like loss of traction in a curve as well as someone who's been riding their bike for 20 years and spends weekends at the track. I'm saying that I don't ride in such a way that I'm likely to lose traction in a curve in the first place. I don't "push it" at all, ever. That may be hard for the more race-oriented folks to understand, but I'm just not interested in that sort of thing. If I was I'd have bought a different bike that is more suited to that style of riding and mindset. While I may have higher odds of a crash than someone who rides like I do and has 20 years experience, I don't think my odds are as bad as someone with my experience who rides like a hooligan...or that 20 year racer would riding like he was in a race. I do what I can to eliminate the most likely causes of a crash (short of not riding in the first place), and that's got to be helping my odds. It's worked for several years of riding so far anyway. >Based on your posts, you have owned only 1 other motorcycle, an XT550. Two others. The Yamaha XT-550 and a Honda VF700S Saber (698 cc actually...it was during the time when there was a restrictive import duty on anything 700 cc or larger... :^). The Honda weighed a good fraction of what my H-D weighs (just over 500 lbs, vs just under 700 lbs), so I'm familiar with bikes heavier than my lightweight (just over 300 lbs) Yamaha. More info here: http://www.v4honda.com/brochures/1985_the_sabres_vf700s_vf110s/1985_the_sabr es_vf700s_vf110s_1.htm >You have been away from riding for 12 years. You purchased a large, brand >new motorcycle that handles poorly and has bad brakes. No, I got a H-D Heritage Softail Classic. ;^) It's large and brand new, but it handles just fine for the type of riding it is intended for and the brakes seem as good as any I've used on prior bikes, and better than those on some cars I've driven. They aren't grabby, they don't fade, and they stop the bike quickly enough for the way I ride. I've had two occasions to do a maximum slow-down so far, once from about 50 mph (a fair percentage of the maximum speed I expect to be using on this bike), while going downhill. The brakes gave me no reason to be concerned (something I can't say for '67 VW brakes...which can fade out completely on a panic stop from 45mph, even when dry). Yes, I have been away from riding for 12 years...that's why I didn't just take off for a road trip on the new bike (like at least one new rider in the MC-HOGS did...picked up his new bike and headed for North Carolina within a couple of days), but have been "starting over" with learning to ride it. It's going a bit faster this time, since it's re-learning, rather than learning, but I'm doing things the same way as before. I'll be signing up for an MSF course (something I didn't do before) when I can get into one (probably the advanced course with the MC-HOGS in the spring, since I hear you can't ride your own bike in the beginner's course and I seriously doubt that I can fit on the bikes they provide for it (I couldn't ride a stock Heritage either...had to move the foot controls forward first). I'd like to take the BRC, but it doesn't seem likely). I've found that it's mentally tiring to ride. Serious concentration at all times. At first, 20 miles was enough to start to dull the edge. Then it took 40, then 80. My last ride was just under 100 and not too bad. I figure on continuing to work up to long distance rides as my endurance goes up, and the "automaticness" of operating the bike finishes setting in to reduce the mental load even more. I don't have to think about where the controls are anymore, but downshifting and braking at stops still takes a little attention to keep it smooth and to end up in neutral (if that's what I want under the circumstances) with enough roll left to stop where I planned to. My first group ride (250 miles on the new bike) I was so busy just riding the bike and staying in position in my half of the lane that I couldn't tell you where we went. The most recent group ride (800 miles logged to date) I had attention left over to keep track of the riders behind me to make sure the group didn't get too separated, and I could probably repeat the course again on my own (without using the GPS track from the last time :^)...though I'm not sure of all the road names. As I said before, I'm getting there. >Unfortunately, a lot of riders returning to the sport and buying large >bikes are the ones that are wrecking. You fit neatly into that category. Yeah, so it would appear if you look only at those two factors. How many of them are doing things that match the *rest* of my characteristics? How many spend the first few hours on the bike in a parking lot doing slow stuff, panic stops and working on shifting and other things that need to be "automatic"? How many stay off of interstates, out of rush hour traffic, away from "challenging" roads for a while, and don't drink and ride, ride when tired, show off to friends, etc.? My first two times up on an interstate on this bike were after a few hundred miles of slower speed work on the bike, and were limited to going a single exit (first time on a group ride). The third time was on a group ride down to Arlington Cemetery on a holiday Tuesday. The fourth was solo on a sunny Sunday afternoon on I-270 to Frederick (light traffic). I'm still not planning to ride to Sturgis any time soon though, and I still approach most turns slower than I would in a car, even though the bike and I have handled all of them so far with ease. Do I still have more to learn about riding? Hell yes! Do I have more to learn about riding the particular bike I have? No question! Will I be riding like a hooligan, racer or seriously experienced rider would? Nope. I'll be riding within the envelope that I know from experience I can handle, and I'll be pushing that envelope very carefully when opportunity comes up to do so safely. I'll also be picking times, places and conditions that shouldn't require anything I'm not very sure I can handle, based on experience so far. I'll also be listening to what you and others have to say about things to watch out for and how to handle them, so that if I run into any of them I'll have a better shot at not screwing it up the first time. Not a guarantee, just better odds. The discussion on the recent Bandit crash is a good example. Some of what was said about likely causes and ways to handle the results were things I was already aware of, others were new to me. Not all apply to the kind of bike I ride, but they are still good to be aware of and to think about. I appreciate the concern, but I'm well aware that riding can be dangerous, that there's much to learn/re-learn, and that overconfidence is a killer. I ride in a way an old bike-riding friend used to call "candy-assed". Very careful, within easy limits and with an understanding that things with 4 or more wheels aren't just clumsy and stupid, they are frequently homicidal. I also try to learn as much as I can, any time that I can, whether it's on-line, in person, or on the bike. It may not be enough, but it's the best I can do without hiding in the house 24x7 with the shades down. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:19:52 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:17:33 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) Cc: DC Cycles At 06:45 PM 12/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> I heard it wasn't possible to herd cats...was I misinformed? >No, one can't herd cats, but they will pack up on their own. Try popping open a >cooler fulla fresh caught fish when back at the dock and see for yourself :-) Good point. No herding, but you can certainly form up a hungry mob! :^) Saw a button last weekend that described kittens as "Self-propelled, dewy-eyed barbed wire in a mohair sweater". Seems accurate enough... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:47:37 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: DC Sportbikes Mailing list Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:48:10 -0500 Does one exist that anyone knows off or a forum board? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:50:37 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:50:03 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7991153e7ef0c52388e038fd8f5b848f8d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Larry opines: > This delusion on the part of most sportsbike riders is what > *will* eventually kill motorcycling on public roads. DRIVING > ANY LICENSED VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT A SPORT. > > Irresponsible sportbikers and the AMA are in a directly > analogous situation to irresponsible assault weapon owners > within the NRA. Unfortunately, the NRA has a lot more > political clout than the AMA. [Dave] Then it would also be exactly analogous to compare irresponsibe harley (or other cruiser marques) riders to irresponsible assault weapon owners... In as much as your analogy holds water, in that all assault weapons are title 2 firearms, registered since 1934. Which I might point out there has not been a single instance of a lawfully registered title 2 firearm used in a crime except.... by a law enforcement officer, 1 time, in 70 years. It would probably have been more analogous to compare irresponsible sports car drivers who happen to be card carrying members of AAA... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 20:52:52 2003 Subject: RE: DC Sportbikes Mailing list Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 20:52:44 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" dcsportbikes.com dcsportbikes.net SBN DC section -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] Sent: Thu 12/4/2003 8:48 PM To: DC-Cycles Cc: Subject: DC Sportbikes Mailing list Does one exist that anyone knows off or a forum board? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 21:01:51 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: History channel Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:01:21 -0500 History channel is doing motorcycles tonight, this is the second show I have seen, last hour and this one. Scott From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 21:31:44 2003 Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 20:31:45 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: More Weirdness in the cold I believe a rear wheel that is out of alignment can also cause, or at least contribute to, the phenomenon you described. Try to lay off the clutchless upshifts, though. It does add a lot of wear and tear to your tranny. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 21:58:55 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 18:58:27 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) To: DC Cycles At 06:45 PM 12/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> I heard it wasn't possible to herd cats...was I >> misinformed? >No, one can't herd cats... Maybe you guys have forgotten that EDS Super Bowl cat-herding commercial a few years ago.... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 22:02:57 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:02:27 -0500 Oh, yes. I just saw that one on some show on animal planet (I think). It's a stitch. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing -----Original Message----- From: pltrgyst@XXXXXX [mailto:pltrgyst@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:58 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) At 06:45 PM 12/4/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> I heard it wasn't possible to herd cats...was I >> misinformed? >No, one can't herd cats... Maybe you guys have forgotten that EDS Super Bowl cat-herding commercial a few years ago.... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 4 22:13:46 2003 Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:28:00 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: > Maybe you guys have forgotten that EDS Super Bowl cat-herding > commercial a few years ago.... I haven't forgotten - http://www.purplecar.org/videos/herding.mov :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 02:09:45 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 02:08:12 -0500 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 08:50 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] Then it would also be exactly analogous to compare irresponsibe >harley (or other cruiser marques) riders to irresponsible assault weapon >owners... If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to start with (sounds redundant to me...). Are Harley owners commonly seen racing on the public roads? Reckless speeds, weaving in and out through traffic with a large speed differential, pulling wheelies away from stop lights, and taking corners so fast that they can't maintain their bikes in their own lanes, or even on two wheels on occasion? I don't think so. From reports here, Harleys aren't even capable of doing those things, and can barely move their own weight of billet aluminum, so their riders are pretty much limited to responsible behavior by the design of their rides... :^) >In as much as your analogy holds water, in that all assault weapons >are title 2 firearms, registered since 1934. No, those are automatic weapons, such as heavy machine guns, sub-machine guns and most modern assault rifles. There's no mention of "assault weapons" that I know of, whatever those might be. "Assault weapon" is a term made up by the gun-ignorant ban-fan crowd, such as Sarah Brady and Handgun Control, Inc. and her media friends, to scare the public into going along with their unconstitutional law suggestions. It's the well-known "demonize the enemy" technique. I guess they figured they'd never get away with "dog-raping-godless-communist-tree-killing-tax-evading-lazy-spitting-on-the- sidewalk weapons". They can't have just gotten "assault rifle" wrong, as the sorts of guns they are referring to are not "assault rifles at all. They are referring to semi-automatic weapons, and all modern assault rifles are select fire, not just semi-auto. >Which I might point out there has >not been a single instance of a lawfully registered title 2 firearm used in >a crime except.... by a law enforcement officer, 1 time, in 70 years. I hear it was twice, if you include Puerto Rico in the mix. It was a cop in both cases though. One killed an informant who was going to testify against him, the other killed his wife...or so the story goes. Haven't tracked down any official records on them yet. There are no reports or even rumors of anyone else using a legally-owned "machine gun" to commit a violent crime since the law was passed. I'm sure a number have been committed using illegally owned ones...but passing more bans won't change that. They are already illegal...just enforce the current laws. >It would probably have been more analogous to compare irresponsible >sports car drivers who happen to be card carrying members of AAA... Or even AA? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 06:10:29 2003 From: "Laurie Holland" To: "'DC-Cycles '" Subject: RE: DC Sportbikes Mailing list Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:10:03 -0500 A lot of ppl from SBN went over to Cycleforums.com, DC area section. http://cycleforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=dc0320f8c08c57835094bcc1358 00551&forumid=138 Laurie -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp To: DC-Cycles Sent: 12/4/2003 8:48 PM Subject: DC Sportbikes Mailing list Does one exist that anyone knows off or a forum board? Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 06:29:27 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:28:51 -0500 (EST) From: KR To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Friday riders Bob&Tom: They're not just in INDY anymore! Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? K From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 07:24:38 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:22:58 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: KR CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Friday riders KR wrote: > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > K Not me, but I often see a couple bikes with sidecars strapped on motoring down the I-395 HOV lanes during real crappy weather. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 07:56:38 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > > ....the odds are perhaps greater > > that i will crash again. this is part of the sport. > > This delusion on the part of most sportsbike riders is > what > *will* eventually kill motorcycling on public roads. > DRIVING > ANY LICENSED VEHICLE ON PUBLIC ROADS IS NOT A SPORT. says the guy who just sold his aprilia rsv mille! perhaps this topic needs a different spokesperson. bartman? larry, somewhat like a very annoying former smoker, has decided that we should all now refer to riding solely as a "form of transportation" or a "two wheeled activity." i will alert manufacturers and the media. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:00:03 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 04:59:36 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- matthew patton wrote: > M1's. see there's your problem. fancy tires. take them > down a couple > notches and you'll get better traction. accell/decel > doesn't add heat > any more than plain ol' riding does. Just like zigzagging > does diddly > squat to heat up tires vs going in a straight line. hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding straight? engineer input please. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:04:07 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:17:53 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing > of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding > straight? Same here, Tom. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:05:22 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:04:49 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:23 PM 12/3/03 -0500, Harry Mantakos wrote: > > >Vowing to be > >careful on the road is good, but won't necessarily be > enough > >to preserve the sheen on your new paint or chrome > against > >driveway mishaps. > > True, but the same "think about how it can go to hell > first" idea can help > even there. If you consider the possible outcomes you > can usually take > steps to limit the damage. As I said, stuff happens, but > you can cut way > down on the problems with a little caution. Or maybe a > lot of caution? :^) > > Contrary to what Gimmer said, you can learn useful things > from lists like > this. For instance, a new rider might not have ever > considered the danger > posed by damp leaves, but after reading about the > experiences of others > here, they should be on the "watch out for them" list. > Such learning isn't > the same as actually feeling your foot (or bike...) slide > out at a stop, > but it's better than nothing and should help avoid at > least that problem. i'd like the name of any new rider who had to be alerted to the danger of wet leaves on an email list. i'd like to secure some life insurance on this idiot. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:08:33 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Tom Gimer'" , "'matthew patton'" , Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:08:07 -0500 The honest truth is that in a street tire its very difficult to build heat in it by either method. Heat is generated by the separation of the molecules in the tire and its just tough to put to that much stress on a tire on the street. Zigzagging isn't the same thing as taking a turn at full speed. Accell/decel is better but unless you have a high horsepower bike (I meal liter bike) and drive like a a**hole it will be tough. Time works better. A soft compound race tire is different. Even the DOT race tires don't warm up that quickly. IMHO, -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:00 AM To: matthew patton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt --- matthew patton wrote: > M1's. see there's your problem. fancy tires. take them > down a couple > notches and you'll get better traction. accell/decel > doesn't add heat > any more than plain ol' riding does. Just like zigzagging does diddly > squat to heat up tires vs going in a straight line. hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding straight? engineer input please. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:09:53 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:23:46 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: dealership recommendation On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > i'd like the name of any new rider who had to be alerted to > the danger of wet leaves on an email list. i'd like to > secure some life insurance on this idiot. I think you have at least one name for your list. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:16:49 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:15:18 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Tom Gimer CC: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Today's Jaunt Tom Gimer wrote: > hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing > of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding > straight? > > engineer input please. > > -- > tg True. Tire flex is responsible for most of the heat buildup, which is way underinflation is bad do-do. Too much flex going on. But Matt is on the right track. A street rider doing a few weaves isn't going to add much heat to the tires. A few miles of hard weaves might bump up the temp a scoosch, but a couple wiggles ain't gonna do squat. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:20:21 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:19:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Good Tint Shop? To: Rob Sharp , DC-Cycles if this has been covered, i apologize. md law i believe permits the rear and rear-side windows of suvs/trucks to be any darkness. the driver and passenger windows must be either 30 or 35 (i think the latter). cops have meters to check this. if yours are factory pretinted you'll need to be sure that applying 35 won't push you beyond this level. experience tells me that these figures can all be ignored by having a friend at an inspection station. ;) just avoid having contraband in plain sight as you can obviously still be pulled over for an equipment violation/check. go to trick trucks in kensington. there's a tint shop next door and you can browse tt while work is being done. neat shop. --- Rob Sharp wrote: > I am looking for a good place to get the windows of my > S10 tinted. Somewhere > in Rockville/Gaithersburg area. Also anyone have any > idea of the MD/VA laws > regarding tint. I know it in NY you can't have it very > dark. > > Rob ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:29:19 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:28:51 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:42 AM 12/3/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> If you are careful about things though, you are > >> no more likely to > >> dump a new bike as a new rider than you are to dump it > as > >> an experienced > >> one. > > > >what a crock. > > > >send a newbie and an experienced rider around a > relatively > >low speed corner, add some unavoidable gravel or wetness > at > >the apex and what do you likely get? one hood ornament > and > >one slightly elevated heartbeat. > > Yeah, but which is which? :^) > > A careful newbie is likely to get around that corner > better than the > experienced rider who's "pushing the envelope". He'll > have a lot more > "room" left in the bike's performance range. yeah, you just keep telling yourself that. the BIKE's performance range is NOT the relevant factor here. > I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike > until I had a couple > of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. it sounded to me (having now waded through one long post after another) like you had a dual-purpose bike that you dropped ONCE. off-roading is supposed to be fun. fun includes pushing yourself to the point where you drop the damn thing. -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:31:51 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 08:28:58 -0500 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New rider risks Mike Bartman wrote: >At 06:37 PM 12/4/03 -0500, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >>On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> >> >>>The odds against my crashing on my new bike are not zero, they aren't for >>>anyone, but they are no worse than average, and probably better. >>> >>> >>Not taking into account your self proclaimed proficiency at riding, you >>are in a high risk group of riders, Mike. >> >> > >Who has somehow, over the course of several years of riding, avoided the >dreaded "bike drop and slide". How have I managed to avoid this, >apparently mandatory, happening within the first few months that I rode? > > > HOLY CRAP that was too damn long.... Uhg, Tom De 'VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:31:54 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Today's Jaunt To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX get some glove gators from hudson trail outfitters or similar. i have wind-proof mittens that go over my summer gloves. haven't needed anything else. -- tg --- Julian Halton wrote: > Took a lunch time ride from Ballston to Shirlington for a > great > cheeseburger...down the 66 and up the 395 on my R6. I was > in my FS jacket, > jeans and Olympia gloves. > The front of my throat, finger tips and thighs are > reminding me of my former > homeland in late January. It was brisk yet exhilarating. > I still have this > weird "feeling" that I am losing traction on the curves > but it could be my > imagination. Saw one other biker out on the road. Those > Olympia gloves cut > the wind but over time at speed I can see where this > could be less than a > complete blast. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:33:21 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:32:54 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Harry Mantakos wrote: > And if you're planning on buying a Harley some day, it > will > take some experience before you've fully mastered loading > and > unloading it into your trailer or truck for long drives. > Better to learn this skill on a ratty bike first! :) huh. i thought that trailers 101 was a mandatory course for new harley owners? -- tg ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:53:57 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:53:28 -0800 (PST) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to > start with (sounds > redundant to me...). Assault rifle is a specific military term for various types of fully-automatic and select-fire (multi-shot burst) intermediate-power long guns. read the rest here http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle >, and taking > corners so fast that > they can't maintain their bikes in their own lanes, > or even on two wheels > on occasion? I don't think so. Actually you see them regularly doing these this. They just do it at about 1/2 the speed of a sportbike. later, Hugh ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:54:04 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:53:13 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX nope. RRW did a detailed debunking of this myth. Yes heat is generated by the plies flexing against each other. zig-zagging doesn't do any more that straight-up riding can accomplish. It was one of this year's issues. June purhaps. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing > > of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding > > straight? > > Same here, Tom. > > -- Wayne > ===== "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not last if we do not learn to forgive. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 08:59:49 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 05:59:26 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: OT: Cats and kittens (was: Re: and so it begins) To: "LindaT." , Dc-Cycles --- "LindaT." wrote: > It's a stitch. Groan... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:03:31 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:03:14 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Friday riders To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX This morning is pish tosh. Try 9pm last night. Started in Springfield and it was just starting to flake. Got down to Woodbridge and it was sticking. hmm. got do Dale City and even the truck tires weren't able to clear me some pavement. I *gingerly* got off, managed a 5 lane lane change to go back north-bound and after I crossed the river again was able to get up to 55mph. I was having to wipe my shield every 8 seconds or so. Both ways. Ended up crashing at my old place. The battery was seriously discharged from having to sit in horrendous 495 traffic earlier that night (Tysons) with the electrics on (can't turn the controller down from my seat - should have unplugged) and sitting outside overnight in the temps I'm sure didn't help. Had to bump it this morning and ride without any heat keeping the revs north of 4K. Then I had to switch to reserve and that didn't go over too well. It was running but popping and gagging. put $1 of gas in it and that seemed to help it out. So looks like I got water/ice in the tank too. And a weak battery. And I'm flying for Chicago at noon. What a day! ===== "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not last if we do not learn to forgive. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:07:01 2003 Subject: Re: Friday riders From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Dec 2003 09:02:59 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 06:28, KR wrote: > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > K > Nope. I slid the car coming out of my place today. I may be insane but in a sane manner :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:18:29 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:18:19 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Friday riders Yah, three wheels is much better than two on a day like this! I just wish I'd already put the big windshield on ... Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "William J. Huson" Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:22:58 -0500 >Not me, but I often see a couple bikes with sidecars strapped on >motoring down the I-395 HOV lanes during real crappy weather. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:20:21 2003 Subject: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:20:55 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Before seriously considering buying a motorcycle..I talked to a scad load of people and slinging drinks as a second job gives me the opportunity to do so. I can say that almost everyone I talked to that rode a bike for any length of time has dropped one. Some of the drops were caused by parking incorrectly or getting off the bike to adjust something etc.. All too often I heard stories like ..I had a Ninja for five years. I was riding down the ......( insert route # here) hit a patch of gravel, lost control and broke my collarbone. My wife suggested I give riding up and I have. This was sobering for me. I had people tell me with a straight face that one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin your whole year. Nevertheless I made the decision to at least learn. Our society lives by the bigger is better mantra. So I wanted an R1 for my first bike. This article I read and the input of my experienced rider friends convinced me to start smaller. The article suggested that learning to ride on a 600cc sport bike was equivalent to learning to fly in an F-18. The best thing I did was take the safety course...I can think of a few occasions at only 3000 miles road experience where the course saved my ass. The next best thing was have riders like the ranging realtor take me out for a ride. Lastly that Hough book helped immensely. Being 32 and having a little bit of wisdom, experience and self-control is also a factor to weigh in. I would like to find out my limits and the limits of my 02 R6 but want to do so safely in a controlled environment. With any new car, I take it down McArthur blvd to that section just past Sibley Hospital in DC with a lot of twists. I take the twists at 35, then 45, then 55 until I find out the car limits. I have taken the bike down there and am not yet comfortable pushing hard because I do not want to slide out. Hough mentions in his book that the riders most likely to get in accidents even among beginners are those with some experience that think they know it all. Kind of like me with a green belt at the age of 17. Why I am rambling....just to state my case that each individual is different and there are so many factors in a drop..one of them is just a bad sequence of events. I have had my rear tire slide now at least five times. I was practicing maximum braking on North Glebe as I approached a stop light. Squeezed the front brakes then stepped on the rear brake a second or so after. Well, that rear brake pressure sent my biking sliding to the right but I did not drop it or go over. Lots of road time in a car has made me acutely aware than I must treat every driver as a threat..this has helped. I am a little concerned with myself that I do not use my rear mirrors enough especially when cornering as my eyes are scanning the road ahead for problems or looking where I want the bike to go. I have yet to hit gravel on a high speed turn..and while gravel is not cited as a significant percentage of accident causes..this scenario or hitting a grease patch worries me as I have an idea of how quick a bike loses traction. I do not like thinking that my bike drop is in my future and it is unavoidable. What I can do is remain even tempered on the road, get good gear, practice what I was taught and I am looking forward to the ERC course next spring so I can bug the ... out of Bill with my questions. I do think because I am somewhat comfortable with the bike and more willing to corner faster I am at slightly more elevated risk than my first dozen rides when I was mr. ultra conservative. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:25:56 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:25:48 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I pontificated: >>[Dave] Then it would also be exactly analogous to compare >>irresponsibe harley (or other cruiser marques) riders to >>irresponsible assault weapon owners... Bartman scoffed: >If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to start >with (sounds redundant to me...). Hugh decloaked, and fired this shot across the bow: Assault rifle is a specific military term for various types of fully-automatic and select-fire (multi-shot burst) intermediate-power long guns. http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle [Dave] Now, now Hugh... Very few people here want to be troubled with minutiae such as facts. >, and taking corners so fast that they can't maintain > their bikes in their own lanes, or even on two wheels > on occasion? I don't think so. Actually you see them regularly doing these this. They just do it at about 1/2 the speed of a sportbike. [Dave] And let's not forget the recently discussed alcohol usage factor among the cruiser crowd, and the out of the sport, but now returning to riding RUBs who also give us a bad name. > MB: From reports here, Harleys ...so their riders are >pretty much limited to responsible behavior by the design of >their rides... :^) [Dave] Perhaps you're referring to the Standard Harleys ? >>In as much as your analogy holds water, in that all assault >>weapons are title 2 firearms, registered since 1934. > >No, those are automatic weapons, such as heavy machine guns, >sub-machine guns and most modern assault rifles. There's no >mention of "assault weapons" that I know of, whatever those >might be. [Dave] Hugh has already adequately described the correct use of the term assault weapon, which is by definition, selective fire. Title 2 firearms are inclusive of machine guns, short barrelled rifles (under 16"), short barrelled shotguns(AOW), sawn off shotguns, destructive devices, and "any other weapon" category (wallet guns, pen guns concealable shotguns, etc.). Suppressors are also registered. > >"Assault weapon" is a term made up by the gun-ignorant ban- >fan crowd, such as Sarah Brady and Handgun Control, Inc. and >her media friends, to scare the public into going along with >their unconstitutional law suggestions. [Dave] Actually, no, they didn't make it up. I believe we came up with the term from the DoD. It has been extensively misused within the last 20 or so years, but the bliss ninny sheeple didn't make it up. >They are referring to semi-automatic weapons, and all modern >assault rifles are select fire, not just semi-auto. [Dave] But just a scant paragraph ago, you said different... I prefer the term: guns that the mere thought of makes bliss ninny, socialist liberals pee their pants. (this is not inclusive of all liberals) > >>Which I might point out there has >>not been a single instance of a lawfully registered title 2 >>firearm used in a crime except.... by a law enforcement >>officer, 1 time, in 70 years. ... >>It would probably have been more analogous to compare >>irresponsible sports car drivers who happen to be card >>carrying members of AAA... > >Or even AA? :^) [Dave] Nah, AA members are at least trying... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:31:05 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Rider Risks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Julian Halton wrote: > This was sobering for me. I had people tell me with > a straight face that > one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin > your whole year. I've always loved this "myth". Hitting a piece of gravel in the road will usually just cause the gravel to fling away from the tire and at most cause the bike to slide a foot or so. No_big_deal. If I had a nickel for every piece of gravel I've hit high speed in a corner I'd be rich. Glenn __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:46:12 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 9:45:51 -0500 > > From: Glenn Dysart > Date: 2003/12/05 Fri AM 09:30:48 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Rider Risks > > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > This was sobering for me. I had people tell me with > > a straight face that > > one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin > > your whole year. > > I've always loved this "myth". Hitting a piece of > gravel in the road will usually just cause the gravel > to fling away from the tire and at most cause the bike > to slide a foot or so. No_big_deal..... ye GAD Glenn! I hope you meant "one inch" If my front end suddenly slid one foot whilst going around a corner, it would take a team of highly skilled surgeons a week to remove my fancy Corbin seat from my postorial oriface. -aki > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:52:34 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 06:52:27 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Rider Risks To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > five years. I was riding down the ......( insert route # here) hit a > patch of gravel, lost control and broke my collarbone. just shows they don't know how to ride well, let alone within reasonable limits. Sand etc are facts of life. I go thru turns with the stuff in them all the time and so what if either tire moves... > ride on a 600cc sport bike was equivalent to learning to fly in an > F-18. exactly. you WON'T learn as well or as quick and you'll probably kill yourself or wad an 40mil aircraft in the process. > Hough mentions in his book that the riders most likely to get in > accidents even among beginners are those with some experience that > think > they know it all. Yup. truer statement was probably never uttered. But it holds for "experienced" riders as well. Those of us like er, me with 75k+ miles since 2000 run the risk of thinking we can do it all. Pride cometh before a fall (literally). That or we learn that caution is the better part of valor. I shouldn't have even tried to go south last night into Spotsylvania county. But at least I knew enough to call it quits. I crashed in 2001 in flash-snow up in Herndon and I didn't want to repeat the experience. I do wish though that I owned a dual-sport because frankly I want to know where that edge is. A 500lb bike on street tires, albeit good ones is still not my choice of experimental platform. And not on I-95 at night with semi's hauling 70+ in snow and no hospital handy. > a bad sequence of events. I dumped my NH at 5mph. grabbed the front brake because I was cheating on a stop sign and a car suddently came into view. I stop better at stop signs now. > where I want the bike to go. I have yet to hit gravel on a high speed > turn..and while gravel is not cited as a significant percentage of > accident causes..this scenario or hitting a grease patch worries me It shouldn't. Worrying leads to tension. Which leads to undue focus being spent on something that isn't as much a threat as it really is. It also leads to tightness of body and poor execution of corrective action should it be needed. And if you don't want to play with grease spots, don't put your bike in the middle of the lane at stop lines. > that my bike drop is in my future and it is unavoidable. Well, nothing is guarenteed mind. Will a (sequence of) poor choices some time in the future cause a close examiniation of ground stone? Purhaps. No guarentee, however and I wouldn't worry about it. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 09:53:43 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 09:52:31 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Glenn Dysart CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rider Risks Glenn Dysart wrote: > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > This was sobering for me. I had people tell me with > > a straight face that > > one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin > > your whole year. > > I've always loved this "myth". Hitting a piece of > gravel in the road will usually just cause the gravel > to fling away from the tire and at most cause the bike > to slide a foot or so. No_big_deal. If I had a > nickel for every piece of gravel I've hit high speed > in a corner I'd be rich. > > Glenn And then there's always gravel roads! My fav touring mecca is the rural coastal swamps of NC. Many of the overlooked by the masses but way cool sightseeing spots are only accessable via garvel/dirt lanes, not wide enough to be classified a road. My reaction after tooling down quiet paved highways is always the same. See "pavement ends" sign - oh shit, back off the throttle big time. A few hundred yards of slow speed squggles on the loose surface and my mental computer is reset to "gravel/dirt" mode and I'm back up to reasonable speed. Yahoo! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:13:22 2003 Subject: RE: and so it begins - snow ties Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:13:02 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "S. Russell" , "Carl Schelin" , Here's what I need: http://www.gearreview.com/pre-hakkapeliitta.php (Along with the appropriate dual-sport bike, of course...) Robert -----Original Message----- From: S. Russell [mailto:psycleman@XXXXXX] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:04 PM To: Carl Schelin; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: and so it begins Only freezing rain in Bethesda, not slick yet. Going to gas up and put it away for tomorrow. Scott Russell 1984 Honda CB700SC Nighthawk From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:38:08 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:37:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Rider Risks Cc: To: "Julian Halton" From: Randy Moran On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 09:20 AM, Julian Halton wrote: > I have had my rear tire slide now at least five times. I was > practicing maximum braking on North Glebe as I approached a stop > light. Squeezed the front brakes then stepped on the rear brake a > second or so after. Well, that rear brake pressure sent my biking > sliding to the right but I did not drop it or go over. > There are two things wrong with this scenario, IMO. First, you shouldn't be "practicing maximum braking" while you're on public roads, and doing so while approaching an intersection is not a good idea. What if you screw up and slide into the intersection? Then someone else is going to have practice some maximum braking in order not to kill you. Save it for the track and the empty parking lot. Second, if you are indeed achieving "maximum braking" then stepping on the rear brake after you've already transferred most of the bike's weight to the front wheel is going to get you an elevated heart rate and/or a trip to the hospital. There is no reason to use the rear brake at this point, since an overwhelming majority of the stopping is being accomplished by the front tire. Any input to the rear brake is likely to cause just what you experienced; rear wheel lockup and loss of control. If you want to use the rear brake, then a better strategy would be to use it first, then let off it as you transfer smoothly to the front brake. I know the resident MSF guys on this list will disagree, but my experience tells me that the rear brake on a modern sport bike something best used for things other than stopping. I also feel that the attention required to properly modulate the rear brake in a panic stop is best devoted to getting the most out of your front brake (and to looking for an escape route), where most of your stopping power resides anyway. RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:42:28 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 07:42:25 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? Yep. Didn't see any other bikers, though. Saw two yesterday, one on the way in (Gixxer, looked like) and one on the way back (BMW? Dark, hard to tell). Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when the temps head south of sixty. It didn't actually snow much out in the DPRMD. There was some scattered white stuff on my tankbag this morning (left it outside last night, oops), but I think it was just frozen rain. I was actually kind of surprised to see snow on the ground out here in Alexandria. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:52:33 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 10:52:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Friday riders Cc: DC-Cycles To: Fish Flowers From: Randy Moran I hope this hasn't already been posted: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29723 This is when men were men and sheep were nervous. RPM On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 10:42 AM, Fish Flowers wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > >> Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > Yep. Didn't see any other bikers, though. Saw two yesterday, one on the > way in (Gixxer, looked like) and one on the way back (BMW? Dark, hard > to > tell). Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when > the > temps head south of sixty. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:55:58 2003 Subject: Re: Friday riders From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Dec 2003 10:52:20 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 10:42, Fish Flowers wrote: > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > > > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > Yep. Didn't see any other bikers, though. Saw two yesterday, one on the > way in (Gixxer, looked like) and one on the way back (BMW? Dark, hard to > tell). Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when the > temps head south of sixty. > No generalizing allowed here. If my harley wasn't in the shop *cough*, I'd be riding it. Last year I was riding when it hit 8 degrees and didn't have a windshield. (What color was the gixxer?) > It didn't actually snow much out in the DPRMD. There was some scattered > white stuff on my tankbag this morning (left it outside last night, oops), > but I think it was just frozen rain. I was actually kind of surprised to > see snow on the ground out here in Alexandria. > It was lightly snowing on my way out yesterday. On the Occoquan bridge my rear wheel lost a tiny bit of traction (slight feeling) but it didn't even raise the heart beat. > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 10:57:41 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 10:56:52 -0500 From: Skip To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rider Risks matthew patton wrote: [snip] > Well, nothing is guarenteed mind. Will a (sequence of) poor choices > some time in the future cause a close examiniation of ground stone? > Purhaps. No guarentee, however and I wouldn't worry about it. Most accidents (aviation, motorcycle, skydiving, etc.) are preceeded by a chain of events where taking the proper action at any point breaks the chain and averts the accident. ymmv, pdoacc. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:01:24 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:01:27 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 05:28 AM 12/5/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike until I had a couple >> of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. > >it sounded to me (having now waded through one long post >after another) like you had a dual-purpose bike that you >dropped ONCE. Wade more carefully then. The bike I dropped was the Honda, not the Yamaha. The Honda was definitely a street bike. It was also my second bike, not my first. >fun includes pushing yourself to the point where you drop the >damn thing. I think we may have found the problem... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:05:11 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Julian Halton" , "Randy Moran" Cc: Subject: Re: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:03:40 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Moran" > > On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 09:20 AM, Julian Halton wrote: > I know the > resident MSF guys on this list will disagree, but my experience tells > me that the rear brake on a modern sport bike something best used for > things other than stopping. I also feel that the attention required to > properly modulate the rear brake in a panic stop is best devoted to > getting the most out of your front brake (and to looking for an escape > route), where most of your stopping power resides anyway. > > RPM > No, or little :) , disagreement from me. "Both brakes to stop" mantra is for newbies who will go on to ride all sorts of bikes. It's a basic technique and its main purpose is to get them to use the front effectively, and not to over-use the rear. Hitting a brake pedal with the right foot seems to come naturally for most people, i.e. cage drivers. One of these days that hoary myth about the front brake "only serves to put your over the handlebars" may die, but we're not there yet. Proper coaching is to get them to use the front more and the rear less. "Progressive squeeze on the front lever, light to lighter pressure on the rear." I often use the analogy of the orange. Squeeze that orange (lever) smoothly and progressively to get out every last drop of juice. Squeeze abruptly or grab and you're liable to get squirted in the eye. :) "Both brakes" instill in the student that a mixture of braking with the front and rear, with emphasis on the front, is the key to stopping in the shortest distance. The proper ratios for individual bikes are the subject for more advanced instruction. Or you can go buy a bike with linked brakes and ABS and let the bike do your thinking for you. Paul in DC, speaking for himself, not the MSF 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:06:54 2003 Subject: Re: Friday riders From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: carlzwench@XXXXXX Date: 05 Dec 2003 11:03:15 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 10:52, Randy Moran wrote: > I hope this hasn't already been posted: > > http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29723 > > This is when men were men and sheep were nervous. > Good pictures! I can see driving around in that. See the problem isn't the snow, it's the other drivers. Sliding the bike in the snow and mud looks like fun but riding at 70+ next to a dual or even triple semi and then having snow? I don't think these guys would have done that. > RPM > Thanks for the pictures. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:07:08 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:07:06 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders On 5 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > No generalizing allowed here. Yeah, but you don't meander about putting on attitudes and sneering at "rice", do you? Not all Harley riders are brand-identified cretins, by any means, but some of them seem to think that if you don't ride a Hawg, you're not a real motorcyclist. Nurtz to them. > (What color was the gixxer?) Stripy blue. He was taking the NB 495 -> EB MD-5 exit ramp around 0915 yesterday. Probably not you. :) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:07:48 2003 From: To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:07:28 -0500 > > From: Fish Flowers > Date: 2003/12/05 Fri AM 10:42:25 EST > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: Friday riders > > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > > > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > Yep. Didn't see any other bikers, though. Saw two yesterday, one on the > way in (Gixxer, looked like) and one on the way back (BMW? Dark, hard to > tell). Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when the > temps head south of sixty. > well! funny how those with little experince are hasty to make generalizations. I can pretty much guarantee you this "bad ass" Harley rider has clocked more miles in black ice, snow, hail, rain and every other kind of bad weather than you've put in TOTAL. Just because I choose NOT to do that anymore doesn't make me a lesser rider. I'm well past having something to prove by riding my bike when I have a perfectly good car with traction control sitting in my driveway. *snort* -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:11:02 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:09:48 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Friday riders At 06:03 AM 12/5/03 -0800, matthew patton wrote: >Ended up crashing at my old place. Umm...given the context I think this might qualify for entry into the "poor word choice" competition for the year... ;^) Glad you made it to your crash space intact. Be careful today getting to the airport! Cab maybe? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:11:02 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:04:01 -0500 To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 05:32 AM 12/5/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: >huh. i thought that trailers 101 was a mandatory course >for new harley owners? Apparently not, as I don't have a trailer. I may get one eventually, just to make it easier to get the bike in for scheduled service that will take longer than a "wait for it" visit, but I don't have one yet and haven't needed it. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:11:03 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:06:07 -0500 To: Hugh Caldwell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: OT: assault weapons (was: Re: dealership recommendation) At 05:53 AM 12/5/03 -0800, Hugh Caldwell wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> >> If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to >> start with (sounds redundant to me...). > >Assault rifle is a specific military term for various >types of fully-automatic and select-fire (multi-shot >burst) intermediate-power long guns. Yeah, I know. But what is an "assault weapon"? We can discuss it off list if you like, since all the bike content is now missing. -- Mike B. "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose that freedom, and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose those too." -- Somerset Maugham From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:15:09 2003 Subject: Re: Friday riders From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Dec 2003 11:11:31 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 11:07, Fish Flowers wrote: > On 5 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > No generalizing allowed here. > > Yeah, but you don't meander about putting on attitudes and sneering at > "rice", do you? Not all Harley riders are brand-identified cretins, by any > means, but some of them seem to think that if you don't ride a Hawg, > you're not a real motorcyclist. Nurtz to them. You need to add some disclaimers then: "Those poser Hawg riders [except you Carl]" ;-) I'll tell xtina and she won't visit ya :-) > > > (What color was the gixxer?) > > Stripy blue. He was taking the NB 495 -> EB MD-5 exit ramp around 0915 > yesterday. Probably not you. :) > True. Wednesday I was roaming around Tysons though. Crossroads Cycles to Rt 50 South to Kaiser. Hmm, I reach Patriot and don't see it. Checks map. It's exit 51, dolt! Turn around go to 495 and head west. Out of gas, exit 49 shows up. Dolt!! Reserve, go to Tysons and loop around. Head back to exit 51 and go south. Ahh, there's the road. And I've lived in this area how long? > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:18:49 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:12:38 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > > > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > > Yep. Didn't see any other bikers, though. Saw two yesterday, one on the > way in (Gixxer, looked like) and one on the way back (BMW? Dark, hard to > tell). Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when the > temps head south of sixty. > Yeah, I rode. No big deal. A little wet though and a little slush on the seat when I departed the manse. Oddly, I didn't see any of the "regulars" on the GW Pkwy. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:18:50 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:17:29 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" I have had my rear tire slide now at least > five times. I was practicing maximum braking on North Glebe as I > approached a stop light. Squeezed the front brakes then stepped on the > rear brake a second or so after. Well, that rear brake pressure sent my > biking sliding to the right but I did not drop it or go over. As Randy said, a bad idea to practice your braking in close proximity to multi-ton things that move around. Apply the rear at the same time as the front and get off it progressively as the weight shifts to the front. At the same time, increase the braking force on the front tire as the weight shifts. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:22:43 2003 Subject: RE: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:22:40 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Skip wrote: >> Most accidents (aviation, motorcycle, skydiving, etc.) are preceeded by a >> chain of events where taking the proper action at any point breaks the >> chain and averts the accident. No offense, but that advice is like saying anyone can become professional baseball player if they'll just learn how to hit major-league pitching three at bats out of 10. The trick is in the execution. As you're looking up at the lighting in the ICU the path to how you got there is always obvious. Beforehand, not so much. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:25:38 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:24:04 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 09:25 AM 12/5/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: >I pontificated: >>>irresponsible assault weapon owners... > >Bartman scoffed: > >>If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to start with > >Hugh decloaked, and fired this shot across the bow: > >Assault rifle is a specific military term for various > >[Dave] Now, now Hugh... Very few people here want to be >troubled with minutiae such as facts. Or the actual words used? Based on the responses of some here, apparently not. Reading carefully seems to be a lost art for most. >> MB: From reports here, Harleys ...so their riders are >>pretty much limited to responsible behavior by the design of >>their rides... :^) > >[Dave] Perhaps you're referring to the Standard Harleys ? "Standard Harley"? You mean like the "Softail Standard" model? Or are you mentally, and improperly, lumping in all V-twin cruisers, including custom choppers, as "Harleys", even though they've never seen the inside of a Harley-Davidson factory to come up with that distinction? >>"Assault weapon" is a term made up by the gun-ignorant ban- >>fan crowd, > >[Dave] Actually, no, they didn't make it up. I believe we >came up with the term from the DoD. It has been extensively >misused within the last 20 or so years, but the bliss ninny >sheeple didn't make it up. "Assault Rifle" is a DoD term. "Assault weapon" isn't. >>They are referring to semi-automatic weapons, and all modern >>assault rifles are select fire, not just semi-auto. > >[Dave] But just a scant paragraph ago, you said different... No, I didn't. You actually have to read what's written...the words matter if you want to get the idea intended. >I prefer the term: guns that the mere thought of makes bliss >ninny, socialist liberals pee their pants. It's a bit long, though very accurate. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:27:30 2003 Subject: RE: Today's Jaunt Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:27:22 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Wayne Edelen" , > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > hmm. i was told that most tire heat results from flexing > > of the tire. more flex from zigzagging than riding > > straight? One of the sportbike magazines did a test to see whether zig zagging increased tire temperature, either in the middle or on the sides. The results of the test showed that zig zagging had no notable effect on tire temperatures. As for accelerating and decelerating, I thought it was the best way to increase tire temps. Seems to work in my experience, but I don't have anything to back it up. Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:27:40 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:21:50 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders To: DC-Cycles AD informed us: I can pretty much guarantee you this "bad ass" Harley rider has clocked more miles in black ice, snow, hail, rain and every other kind of bad weather than you've put in TOTAL. [Dave] Remember, per our earlier morning reading, motorcycling is not a sport, and 'badass' is no longer associated with motorcycling in General. Gimer is notifying the manufacturers of this. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:34:10 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:34:02 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:25 AM 12/5/03 -0500, Dave Yates wrote: > >I pontificated: > >>>irresponsible assault weapon owners... > > > >Bartman scoffed: > > > >>If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to > start with > > > >Hugh decloaked, and fired this shot across the bow: > > > >Assault rifle is a specific military term for various > > > >[Dave] Now, now Hugh... Very few people here want to > be > >troubled with minutiae such as facts. > > Or the actual words used? Based on the responses of some > here, apparently > not. Reading carefully seems to be a lost art for most. dude, who the fuck has time to read your posts carefully? take the hint, windbag, and cut 'em down to a readable size -- you'll probably make more friends at my expense. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:38:00 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:38:10 -0500 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Friday riders At 07:42 AM 12/5/03 -0800, Fish Flowers wrote: >On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > > Funny how all the "badass" Harley riders seem to evaporate when the >temps head south of sixty. I guess I'm not a "badass" Harley rider then. I've been out at temps down to 38 this fall, without any heated gear (or, rather, gear heated only "organically" :^). Didn't have leather pants until a couple of weeks ago. Much less chilly with them on top than with just jeans or jeans and long johns. I wouldn't go out today on the bike though. Traction is *way* too iffy for my level of experience. Perhaps for anyone's, but certainly for mine. Besides, this is exactly the sort of weather I got the Jeep for...it's *fun* driving it in the slush and snow! :^) >It didn't actually snow much out in the DPRMD. There was some scattered >white stuff on my tankbag this morning (left it outside last night, oops), >but I think it was just frozen rain. There's about 3-4" on the streets near my house (just south of Rockville), with car ruts through it. No removal or street treatment operations here yet. I expect the main roads are pretty clear though. I'll find out after work. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:38:08 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:29:40 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , Glenn Dysart From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Rider Risks Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 09:52 AM 12/5/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >paved highways is always the same. See "pavement ends" sign - oh shit, >back off the throttle big time. A few hundred yards of slow speed >squggles on the loose surface and my mental computer is reset to >"gravel/dirt" mode and I'm back up to reasonable speed. Yahoo! My old XT-550 had no problem with such roads, but I haven't tried that sort of thing on my Heritage...were you on your H-D for any of those trips? How did it handle? Any bad effects on the bike that need remedial work afterwards? Just wondering in case the opportunity arises to try it on mine... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:38:26 2003 From: To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:38:06 -0500 damn..I totally forgot about that. Scratch the badass part. No wait..don't do that either. oh never mind. > > From: Dave Yates > Date: 2003/12/05 Fri AM 11:21:50 EST > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders > > AD informed us: > > I can pretty much guarantee you this "bad ass" Harley rider > has clocked more miles in black ice, snow, hail, rain and > every other kind of bad weather than you've put in TOTAL. > > [Dave] Remember, per our earlier morning reading, > motorcycling is not a sport, and 'badass' is no longer > associated with motorcycling in General. Gimer is notifying > the manufacturers of this. > > Dave Yates > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:39:02 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:38:13 -0500 From: Skip To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Rider Risks Dave Blumgart wrote: > > Skip wrote: > > >> Most accidents (aviation, motorcycle, skydiving, etc.) are preceeded > by a >> chain of events where taking the proper action at any point > breaks the > >> chain and averts the accident. > > No offense, but that advice is like saying anyone can become > professional baseball player if they'll just learn how to hit > major-league pitching three at bats out of 10. > > The trick is in the execution. > > As you're looking up at the lighting in the ICU the path to how you got > there is always obvious. Beforehand, not so much. none taken. I guess the point I'm getting at is that I try to look at riding (and a lot of other aspects of life) as a chain of events. when I go into a corner too hot (which occurred because of a previous chain of events), the next actions become *critical* if the outcome I desire is to be realized (me, on top of a bike with the shiny side up). what I'm saying is don't just look through the corner, *think* through the corner. Realizing the big picture is essential. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm constantly running scenarios while riding. answering the "what would I do if..." questions. classes can provide the answers, experience can provide the skills to pull it off. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:43:40 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:43:38 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 adamme1@XXXXXX huffed: > I can pretty much guarantee you this "bad ass" Harley rider has clocked > more miles in black ice, snow, hail, rain and every other kind of bad > weather than you've put in TOTAL. And I am duly impressed by your manly prowess. Okay, fine, it was a generalization, and mainly aimed at the moron down the block who affects a do-rag under his brain bucket, rides his straight-pipe Hawg around the neighborhood making an ass of himself, and huffs at my rat bike. I don't see many squids out either. There, happy? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:53:10 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:52:32 -0500 > > From: Randy Moran > I hope this hasn't already been posted: > > http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29723 > > This is when men were men and sheep were nervous. > > RPM Unreal! Thanks for posting this link. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:53:42 2003 From: To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:53:22 -0500 > And I am duly impressed by your manly prowess. ..as you should be. All again is right with the world. ;-) > > Okay, fine, it was a generalization, and mainly aimed at the moron down > the block who affects a do-rag under his brain bucket, rides his > straight-pipe Hawg around the neighborhood making an ass of himself, and > huffs at my rat bike. OH! You mean the wannabes? Why didn't you say so? Sheesh. Jeez..you gotta separate us badasses from the wannabes or you'll just muck up the soup. 8-P > > I don't see many squids out either. There, happy? oh I'm sure there were a few..they make nice tree ornaments. > > Fish. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:57:09 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:56:59 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> >>[Dave] Perhaps you're referring to the Standard Harleys ? > >"Standard Harley"? You mean like the "Softail Standard" >>model? Or are you mentally, and improperly, lumping in >>all V-twin cruisers, including custom >>choppers, as "Harleys", even though they've never seen the >>inside of a Harley-Davidson factory to come up with that >>distinction? [Dave] No, No, and No, respectively. I am referring to a distinction drawn right here on DCC not too long ago. > >>>"Assault weapon" is a term made up by the gun-ignorant ban- >>>fan crowd, >> >>[Dave] Actually, no, they didn't make it up. I believe we >>came up with the term from the DoD. It has been >>extensively misused within the last 20 or so years, but the >>bliss ninny sheeple didn't make it up. > >"Assault Rifle" is a DoD term. "Assault weapon" isn't. > [Dave] assault weapon is inclusive of rifles, pistols, short barrelled shotguns and special use weapons. And yes, DoD does use it. >>I prefer the term: guns that the mere thought of makes >>bliss ninny, socialist liberals pee their pants. > >It's a bit long, though very accurate. :^) > [Dave] I aim to please (pun intended)... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:58:12 2003 From: rjmoran@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Any Brit Bike guys on the list? Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:58:03 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cmptb3JhbkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== My friend has a '72 Norton Interstate and is looking for parts. Anyone know of a good local source for that kind of thing? RPM > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Moran" > > > > > > > On Friday, December 5, 2003, at 09:20 AM, Julian Halton wrote: > > > I know the > > resident MSF guys on this list will disagree, but my experience tells > > me that the rear brake on a modern sport bike something best used for > > things other than stopping. I also feel that the attention required to > > properly modulate the rear brake in a panic stop is best devoted to > > getting the most out of your front brake (and to looking for an escape > > route), where most of your stopping power resides anyway. > > > > RPM > > > No, or little :) , disagreement from me. "Both brakes to stop" mantra is > for newbies who will go on to ride all sorts of bikes. It's a basic > technique and its main purpose is to get them to use the front effectively, > and not to over-use the rear. Hitting a brake pedal with the right foot > seems to come naturally for most people, i.e. cage drivers. One of these > days that hoary myth about the front brake "only serves to put your over the > handlebars" may die, but we're not there yet. Proper coaching is to get > them to use the front more and the rear less. "Progressive squeeze on the > front lever, light to lighter pressure on the rear." I often use the > analogy of the orange. Squeeze that orange (lever) smoothly and > progressively to get out every last drop of juice. Squeeze abruptly or grab > and you're liable to get squirted in the eye. :) > > "Both brakes" instill in the student that a mixture of braking with the > front and rear, with emphasis on the front, is the key to stopping in the > shortest distance. The proper ratios for individual bikes are the subject > for more advanced instruction. > > Or you can go buy a bike with linked brakes and ABS and let the bike do your > thinking for you. > > Paul in DC, speaking for himself, not the MSF > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 11:58:46 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Today's Jaunt Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 11:58:08 -0500 > > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > As for accelerating and decelerating, I thought it was the best way to increase tire temps. Seems to work in my experience, but I don't have anything to back it up. > If you "accelerate" hard enough to sping the back tire you'll certainly warm it up pretty quick. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:03:22 2003 From: rjmoran@XXXXXX To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:03:03 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cmptb3JhbkBjb21jYXN0Lm5ldA== I live out by the mountains near Aldie, VA. We got @6-7 inches out here and the plow didn't come around 'til 10 or so. I ride a Honda RC51 which is currently shod in Michelin Pilot H2s. I don't think I could've ridden more than a hundred yards or so before crashing. I am amazed that anyone would ride in this weather. RPM > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 adamme1@XXXXXX huffed: > > > I can pretty much guarantee you this "bad ass" Harley rider has clocked > > more miles in black ice, snow, hail, rain and every other kind of bad > > weather than you've put in TOTAL. > > And I am duly impressed by your manly prowess. > > Okay, fine, it was a generalization, and mainly aimed at the moron down > the block who affects a do-rag under his brain bucket, rides his > straight-pipe Hawg around the neighborhood making an ass of himself, and > huffs at my rat bike. > > I don't see many squids out either. There, happy? > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:05:14 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Dave Yates" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:03:27 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" > [Dave] Remember, per our earlier morning reading, > motorcycling is not a sport, and 'badass' is no longer > associated with motorcycling in General. Gimer is notifying > the manufacturers of this. > > Dave Yates Then I duly expect the manufacturers in due course to drop names like Intruder, Rebel, Marauder, Interceptor, Eliminator, Eviscerater, Discombobulater, Emasculator... Paul in DC, not into sport, just dull, sensible shoes, two-wheeled transport ;-) 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:05:43 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 11:55:45 -0500 To: Randy Moran , Fish Flowers From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Friday riders Cc: DC-Cycles At 10:52 AM 12/5/03 -0500, Randy Moran wrote: >I hope this hasn't already been posted: > >http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29723 Wow. Thank you for pointing that out. I always wondered what rat bikes were like when they were younger... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:07:34 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:07:11 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: lists@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: In case you haven't seen the Dave Despain rant about NASCAR... X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Oh My F$%&ing GOD. That was HILARIOUS. I just about fell out of my chair. Thanks for the laugh Gary. Scooter In a message dated 12/4/2003 7:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, lists@XXXXXX writes: > > http://www.uponone.com/view_download.php?id=665&vt=1853798 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:09:13 2003 From: Jim Shoemaker Subject: Re: Friday riders To: DC-Cycles Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:09:09 -0500 On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:43:38 -0800 (PST) Fish Flowers wrote: > > I don't see many squids out either. There, happy? > Hell, just the *threat* of precip will send most of your squidly crowd running for their bike covers :-) OK, I'm generalizing here, too. But it's fun and besides, December 5th is "National Generalization Day" as decreed by...um...me! --Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:11:10 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Rider Risks Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:10:33 -0500 "Julian Halton" wrote,in part: > I would like to find out my limits and the limits of > my 02 R6 but want to do so safely in a controlled environment. With any > new car, I take it down McArthur blvd to that section just past Sibley > Hospital in DC with a lot of twists. I take the twists at 35, then 45, > then 55 until I find out the car limits. I have taken the bike down > there and am not yet comfortable pushing hard because I do not want to > slide out. Other people have addressed your comments on practicing "maximum braking." I'd like to respond to the above. No offense intended but McArthur Blvd is NOT "controlled conditions." Drive it 50 times and you can find 50 (or maybe 500) differences each time. Even in the 5 minutes between passes a car could dump oil or antifreeze right in your line out of a corner. Or pull out of a driveway or side street. Or a trash truck could lose some nice slippery pizza boxes in the middle of the road. Or some leaves blow out into your path, or a truck coming the other way crosses the center line as you're hitting your apex. You get the idea. If you really, really want to do things like this, do some track days, or find a really empty parking lot, or head well out into the country on a pretty much deserted road. (But take a friend with a cell phone to call for the rescue squad if you wad it.) There's no place on a public road where you should be testing "maximum braking" or the cornering limits of an R6 (or its rider). Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:16:39 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:16:37 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Rider Risks ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Julian Halton" All too often I heard stories like ..I had a Ninja for >five years. I was riding down the ......( insert route # here) hit a >patch of gravel, lost control and broke my collarbone. Pretty embarassing to be unable to avoid a static hazard. What will they do next, complain about trees not getting out of the way? >I had people tell me with a straight face that >one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin your whole year. Stupidity, incompetence, or riding beyond your abilities is what ruins things. Riding on the street so close to the edge that one piece of gravel can wreck you is just not smart. Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:22:34 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:22:32 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Paul Wilson wrote: > Then I duly expect the manufacturers in due course to drop names like > Intruder, Rebel, Marauder, Interceptor, Eliminator, Eviscerater, > Discombobulater, Emasculator... You know, most of those bike names sound like new products from Doc Johnson to me. I guess they are just really sexpensive toys, though... Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:27:04 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: In case you haven't seen the Dave Despain rant about NASCAR... Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:25:03 -0500 I guess I'm trying to figure out what's so funny. What I saw was a foul-mouthed tirade in response to (quite legitimate in my opinion) criticism of Speed's (increasingly crappy) motorcycle programming and its slow transformation into the all-NASCAR-all-the-time network. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: > Oh My F$%&ing GOD. That was HILARIOUS. I just about fell out of my chair. Thanks for the laugh Gary. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 12/4/2003 7:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, lists@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > http://www.uponone.com/view_download.php?id=665&vt=1853798 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:27:36 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:26:22 -0500 To: "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Friday riders At 12:03 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >From: "Dave Yates" > >> motorcycling is not a sport, and 'badass' is no longer >> associated with motorcycling in General. Gimer is notifying >> the manufacturers of this. > >Then I duly expect the manufacturers in due course to drop names like >Intruder, Rebel, Marauder, Interceptor, Eliminator, Eviscerater, >Discombobulater, Emasculator... So what names will they use in future? BunnyBike? Hamster? (already a very prestigious Harley riding club name... :^), Daisy? Snowflake? Kitten? How far from threatening, macho names do they need to get? Would anyone here ride a "Kawasaki CreamPuff"? I note that the car companies haven't produced a "Gazelle", "Gerbil" or "Minnow" yet, but "Mustang" and "Ram" are still around. "Baracuda", and "Challenger" seem to have gone away though. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:27:49 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:18:50 -0500 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: RE: Today's Jaunt At 11:58 AM 12/5/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: >> From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" >> >> As for accelerating and decelerating, I thought it was the best way to increase tire temps. Seems to work in my experience, but I don't have anything to back it up. >> >If you "accelerate" hard enough to sping the back tire you'll certainly warm it up pretty quick. Anything that flexes the tire will create heat. Rolling (particularly when underinflated), cornering, acceleration and deceleration all do it. Sliding the tire (as in spinning it) creates heat too, as well as abrading the rubber. The important questions when it comes to warming them up would seem to be 1) how *much* heat? and 2) is it being created faster than it's being lost? Where the heat is being created may matter too...I'm not sure. Tread? Sidewall? Apparently the zig-zag thing doesn't create it fast enough to make a difference. Rolling for a few miles apparently does. If reports here are to be believed...and there's no reason not to. Dragsters seem to prefer the spinning method to warm the tires up to make them stickier, but they aren't planning on going far on them. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:38:01 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:37:13 -0500 From: Skip To: Mike Bartman CC: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders Mike Bartman wrote: > I note that the car companies haven't produced a "Gazelle", "Gerbil" or > "Minnow" yet, but "Mustang" and "Ram" are still around. "Baracuda", and > "Challenger" seem to have gone away though. Chevy makes an "Impala". Not so different from "Gazelle" --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:46:20 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Friday riders On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Skip wrote: > Chevy makes an "Impala". Not so different from "Gazelle" I want me one'a them Fnord Motors "Prey" cars. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:48:06 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:52:49 -0500 Uh huh. XR made it fun, not a challenge at all. Sticks like glue. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:13 AM > To: Fish Flowers; DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: Friday riders Yeah, I rode. No big deal. Paul in DC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fish Flowers" > > > Yep. > > > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, KR wrote: > > > > > Anyone else brave the elements this morning on his/her bike? > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:51:26 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: DC-Cycles Subject: Car names - WAS:Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:56:08 -0500 You know, in European and SA markets, Ford has a super mini car that they've managed to name Ka. I laugh every time I see the name. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Fish Flowers [SMTP:fish@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:46 PM > To: DC-Cycles > Subject: Re: Friday riders > > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Skip wrote: > > > Chevy makes an "Impala". Not so different from "Gazelle" > > I want me one'a them Fnord Motors "Prey" cars. > > Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 12:53:26 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Friday riders Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 12:42:15 -0500 I just want to be able to put "never seen rain" in my ad when I sell it :). _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 13:00:16 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Friday riders To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX With the amount of rain we have had this year I don't even think the posers can do that! Glenn --- rich hall wrote: > I just want to be able to put "never seen rain" in > my ad when I sell it :). > > _________________________________________________________________ > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 13:20:11 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:19:00 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rider Risks Mike Bartman wrote: > At 09:52 AM 12/5/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: > > >paved highways is always the same. See "pavement ends" sign - oh shit, > >back off the throttle big time. A few hundred yards of slow speed > >squggles on the loose surface and my mental computer is reset to > >"gravel/dirt" mode and I'm back up to reasonable speed. Yahoo! > > My old XT-550 had no problem with such roads, but I haven't tried that sort > of thing on my Heritage...were you on your H-D for any of those trips? How > did it handle? Any bad effects on the bike that need remedial work > afterwards? Just wondering in case the opportunity arises to try it on > mine... > > -- Mike B. Yes, twas on my Harley FLHS - a bagger. It handled like all my other bikes on gravel, bit loose on the loose on the loose stuff :-) Only remediation needed after a dusty road venture was a wash. That would wait until A) I arrived home and was in the mood for a hose job on the bike, or B) it rained. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 13:22:42 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , Subject: RE: Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 13:22:31 -0500 I can. Mike bike has never seen rain. 5k miles in 2 years. Not exactly lots of miles, but not a trivial amount either considering I don't like driving in the rain or cold. -Jim -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 12:59 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Friday riders With the amount of rain we have had this year I don't even think the posers can do that! Glenn --- rich hall wrote: > I just want to be able to put "never seen rain" in > my ad when I sell it :). > > _________________________________________________________________ > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 14:52:03 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:52:35 -0500 On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 02:08:12 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > If there was such a thing as an "assault weapon" to start with > (sounds redundant to me...). It's called a rifle or a shotgun used to hunt for food. Assualt rifles are usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em fast. > Are Harley owners commonly seen racing on the public roads? Reckless > speeds, weaving in and out through traffic with a large speed > differential, pulling wheelies away from stop lights, and taking > corners so fast that they can't maintain their bikes in their own > lanes, or even on two wheels on occasion? I don't think so. From > reports here, Harleys aren't even capable of doing those things, and > can barely move their own weight of billet aluminum, so their riders > are pretty much limited to responsible behavior by the design of > their rides... :^) Terminator stunt men did wheelies on a Victory when I watched the making of the showed it. Harleys are usually pretty powerful machines , but they don't have the handling and breaking to compliment that power. Harley owners don't have the agressive rider stereotype like sport bikers they have the ride from bar to bar stereotype. Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 14:56:51 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:57:26 -0500 Haha you can get life insurance out on someone else. I know businesses could do it but don't you have to prove the person is worth something to you ? Otherwise it's like gambling peoples lifespans. It's kinda a neat idea tho. Rob > > i'd like the name of any new rider who had to be alerted to > the danger of wet leaves on an email list. i'd like to > secure some life insurance on this idiot. > > -- > tg > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 14:58:32 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 14:59:07 -0500 Hey Bartman, Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have you had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a survey, uh yeah. Rob On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 08:23:46 -0500 (EST), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > > > i'd like the name of any new rider who had to be alerted to > > the danger of wet leaves on an email list. i'd like to > > secure some life insurance on this idiot. > > I think you have at least one name for your list. > > :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 15:15:12 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:14:59 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Rob Sharp , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX i would need an insurable interest in the said idiot. first, i need his name. there will be a courting period. then i will either marry him or go into business with him. --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Haha you can get life insurance out on someone else. I > know businesses could > do it but don't you have to prove the person is worth > something to you ? > Otherwise it's like gambling peoples lifespans. It's > kinda a neat idea tho. > > Rob > > > > > i'd like the name of any new rider who had to be > alerted to > > the danger of wet leaves on an email list. i'd like to > > secure some life insurance on this idiot. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 15:46:18 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 12:46:10 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:28 AM 12/5/03 -0800, Tom Gimer wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> I've been a careful newbie and I didn't drop my bike > until I had a couple > >> of years experience...and some shit happened. YMMV. > > > >it sounded to me (having now waded through one long post > >after another) like you had a dual-purpose bike that you > >dropped ONCE. > > Wade more carefully then. The bike I dropped was the > Honda, not the > Yamaha. The Honda was definitely a street bike. It was > also my second > bike, not my first. , > >fun includes pushing yourself to the point where you > drop the > >damn thing. > > I think we may have found the problem... must be on your end. all i've heard is that only one of us uses a dual purpose bike for dual purposes. -- tg ( this tiffy with mb is getting old. where's anker?) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 16:05:55 2003 Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 16:05:47 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Gimer moaned: >tg ( this tiffy with mb is getting old. where's >anker?) [Dave] How 'bout Squeakers? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 16:21:58 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:19:10 -0500 To: Skip From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Friday riders Cc: DC-Cycles At 12:37 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Skip wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: > >> I note that the car companies haven't produced a "Gazelle", "Gerbil" or > >Chevy makes an "Impala". Not so different from "Gazelle" True, but "Impaler" sounds pretty close, but what do you do for "Gazelle"? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 16:27:30 2003 From: "Dick Anker" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Some idiots never learn. Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 21:27:23 +0000 Gimer moaned: >tg ( this tiffy with mb is getting old. where's >anker?) Get off it, Gimer - everyone is tired of hearing your loud-mouthed, holier-than-though drivel. Why don't you shove your head up your ass where it belongs? [Dave] How 'bout Squeakers? If you really want that miserable twat to come back, then you should go join Gimer in Dipshit Land. I figure with all of the shitty weather, the list ought to be good for a laugh. Of course, that's the same sort of brain dead thinking I would expect from mouth-breathing invertebrates like Gimer. I think I'll grab another cup of coffee and go back to drooling over my new SV650 motored YSR. - Should be fun when the roads thaw out... Dick E. Anker, Esq. 1989 YSR650 _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 16:29:16 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:20:53 -0500 To: Michael Lynch , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car names - WAS:Friday riders At 12:56 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Michael Lynch wrote: >You know, in European and SA markets, Ford has a super mini car that they've >managed to name Ka. I laugh every time I see the name. If you fall out of it while driving, do you get a Ka-rash? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 16:34:29 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 16:23:54 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Rider Risks Cc: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:19 PM 12/5/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Yes, twas on my Harley FLHS - a bagger. It handled like all my other bikes on >gravel, bit loose on the loose on the loose stuff :-) Only remediation needed >after a dusty road venture was a wash. That would wait until A) I arrived home >and was in the mood for a hose job on the bike, or B) it rained. That's good to hear. Maybe there's still some of that old 1950's Panhead in them yet! :^) (not that I want to try what those pics were showing on a bike that costs what they cost these days! Any of those old $50 "surplus" bikes left? Haven't read any bubblegum wrappers lately.) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 17:08:08 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:00:02 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 02:52 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Terminator stunt men did wheelies on a Victory when I watched the making of >the showed it. Harleys are usually pretty powerful machines , but they don't >have the handling and breaking to compliment that power. Victory != Harley. Two different companies and two different bikes. Both make cruiser-style bikes with 2 cylinder V-engines engines, but that's about the end of the similarity. The Victory Vegas was styled by Arlen Ness, and has a larger displacement engine than what Harley makes stock (92 c.i vs 88 c.i.) Victory Motorcycles didn't exist until 1997, though the parent company (Polaris) has been around for 50 years. That said, the Terminator 3 bike was a specially-modified Indian (Chief model). Yet another big American cruiser manufacturer (currently out of business...again). See: http://www.motorcyclenewswire.com/news.cfm?newsid=2120 for details. Terminator 2 had Honda, Kawasaki and H-D bikes in it. The H-D was a Fat Boy. See: http://motorbiker.org/members/mikewerner/Motorbiker.nsf/b7912ed1c9f1be1fc125 6c0900575b02/41b92d57b56a2c9ac1256c60004c1ed9!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,termi nator and: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/movies/terminator-faq/ Terminator had a Honda scooter and a Honda CB750, according to: (http://www.lisashea.com/motorcycle/term/arnie.html) It certainly wasn't a Victory, as they didn't exist in the 80s. >Harley owners don't have the agressive rider stereotype like sport bikers >they have the ride from bar to bar stereotype. So it's surprising that the local HOGs don't ride to bars, eh? Restaraunts yes, but not bars that I've seen so far. The restaraunts that we've ridden to so far don't serve alcohol either...though my experience with this is limited to the last couple of months. Perhaps all the heavy drinking rides are in the spring? Or maybe the stereotype needs to be updated a bit? We aren't all Hell's Angels either. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 17:08:19 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Hey Bartman, > >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have you >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a >survey, uh yeah. 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. Good luck with the survey. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 17:40:06 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Newbie crawling (was Re: Re: dealership recommendation) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 17:35:46 -0500 IMHO Mike's break-ins are worthy of support, with a major add-on: Beside basic MSF operations, road surface attention is the biggest auto-to-bike driving change. Small stuff, of zip consequence in a 4-point car, is potential havoc on a two-point bike -- gravel and oil spots, wet pavement markings, leaves, rocks, steel plates, uneven pavement, manhole covers, cold tires, flotsam, jetsam, ad nauseum. 'Twould behoove any beginner to spend non-traffic time becoming friends with the local road -- early Sunday day (and dark, but not just-post barclose) jaunts around the neighborhood; a swing or two around the beltway and 'hood interchanges; some urban maze. Roadeye and bike then are on the way to becoming second nature, leaving traffic to command the top of the attention pyramid. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Roads are my friend when I'm theirs. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: Mike Bartman For instance, when I got my H-D in September, I spent the first week riding around my neighborhood and at the local high school parking lot after hours working on slow maneuvers and getting used to the bike's handling and control location. Shifting, stopping, panic stopping, U-turns, "cone" weaving, slow riding, etc.. It wasn't until I was able to do the above up to the standard required to pass the MD "road test" that I even considered getting out on a major roadway. When I did, it was on back roads in Potomac...mostly 35 mph limits. A couple of hundred miles later I was back up to speed enough (I rode before, just not recently, or on a bike quite that heavy, hence the practice) to try a group ride with the MC-HOGs (new member's ride...where they expect you to have little or no group riding experience). I'm now just under 1000 miles on the clock, and I'm starting to feel a little more confident in traffic...but I still only ride when I'm well rested and the conditions are good. I don't commute on the bike and don't plan to (not having a commute helps with this! :^) I've known others who picked up a new bike and headed out on an extended road trip the next day. I suspect they are the newbies that Tom was referring to. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 17:51:35 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC-Cycles'" Subject: RE: Car names - WAS:Friday riders Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2003 17:51:32 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c26095a8e1b65c37bfe279adc6c759837972d350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >If you fall out of it while driving, do you get a Ka-rash? Nope - that's what you get if it hits you... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 5 19:18:15 2003 Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 19:17:15 -0500 From: Steven McCollom To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for12/03/03) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [138.88.232.177] at Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:18:08 -0600 Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 11:29 AM 12/4/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >On Thu, 2003-12-04 at 11:20, Harry Mantakos wrote: > > > >> Now if I can only figure out how to make a bitch-slapping > >> filter. > > > >Have Gimer do it ;-) > > I suspect he's a large part of the reason such a thing is seen as necessary... > he's certainly why I'd want one. It would remove most of his posts entirely. > > -- Mike B. > If you're "offended", take your own advice (from the gigantic sig you posted), you pompous ass. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 01:22:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Wayne Edelen , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 01:23:16 -0500 And finally upon the advice of the DC-cycle attorney will you travel to Vermont and get married to me :-p Rob On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >Hey Bartman, > > > >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have you > >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a > >survey, uh yeah. > > 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, > D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle > reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone > production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. > > Good luck with the survey. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 03:26:34 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:22:34 -0500 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Newbie crawling (was Re: Re: dealership recommendation) At 05:35 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Mobacc wrote: >IMHO Mike's break-ins are worthy of support, with a major add-on: Beside >basic MSF operations, road surface attention is the biggest auto-to-bike >driving change. Small stuff, of zip consequence in a 4-point car, is >potential havoc on a two-point bike -- gravel and oil spots, wet pavement >markings, leaves, rocks, steel plates, uneven pavement, manhole covers, cold >tires, flotsam, jetsam, ad nauseum. Thank you, and very good point. A couple of weeks after I picked up my bike they ripped the surface off of Shady Grove Road in prep for repaving (which they seem to have completed now). The grooved surface left behind was a little worrisome at first...the bike liked to shimmy a bit on it, and I wasn't sure how lane changes and stops would be affected until I'd tried them...carefully. The water meter covers (or whatever those 6" diameter mini-manholes are) that were sticking up 4-5" above the now lowered road surface were a major hazard that had to be avoided with some careful swerves. In my Jeep, none of that stuff required a second thought. Just drive over it, and other than a little different road noise, and an occasional bump if I didn't manage to avoid a meter cover, no difference. I pay a lot more attention to what's in the roadway on the bike. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 03:26:39 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:25:00 -0500 To: Steven McCollom From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digest for12/03/03) Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 07:17 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Steven McCollom wrote: >Mike Bartman wrote: >> I suspect he's a large part of the reason such a thing is seen as necessary... >> he's certainly why I'd want one. It would remove most of his posts entirely. > >If you're "offended", take your own advice (from the gigantic sig you >posted), you pompous ass. Go fuck yourself. Now you can take your own advice too. -- Mike B. [This sigfile intentionally left blank] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 03:26:53 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:26:42 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Maybe. Meet me at my house and we can discuss it. Just hop the fence and come around to the office window, it's a shortcut. -- Mike B. At 01:23 AM 12/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >And finally upon the advice of the DC-cycle attorney will you travel to >Vermont and get married to me :-p > >Rob > >On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote >> At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >> >Hey Bartman, >> > >> >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have you >> >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a >> >survey, uh yeah. >> >> 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, >> D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle >> reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone >> production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. >> >> Good luck with the survey. >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> **************************************************************************** >> * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation >> Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled >> Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options >> Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ >> --------------------------------------------* * "We do it >> all! No job too small! No price too high! * >**************************************************************************** > > >-- >Rob Sharp >1996 Honda VFR 750 >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >Network Security Engineer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 10:12:04 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 10:11:05 -0500 From: Steven McCollom To: Mike Bartman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Quoting the entire digest (Re: dc-cycles digestfor12/03/03) X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out007.verizon.net from [138.88.48.15] at Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:12:00 -0600 Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 07:17 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Steven McCollom wrote: > >Mike Bartman wrote: > > >> I suspect he's a large part of the reason such a thing is seen as > necessary... > >> he's certainly why I'd want one. It would remove most of his posts > entirely. > > > >If you're "offended", take your own advice (from the gigantic sig you > >posted), you pompous ass. > > Go fuck yourself. > > Now you can take your own advice too. > > -- Mike B. > [This sigfile intentionally left blank] Thanks for the suggestion, and another glimpse of what's on your mind at 3:25 a.m., but perhaps I'll seek another outlet. If someone asks about campsites in WV, I'll post a link to a nudist resort website. If someone asks about "standard" motorcycles, I'll suggest they look at a Heritage Softail Classic. And on and on. I will post hundreds of messages; I'll post every day, at all hours of the day and night, and if there are complaints about the noise I will tell those people *they* need to get a life. Oh, wait - that's been done. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 12:13:49 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:13:40 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX how is "business day" defined in the statutory scheme? --- Carl Schelin wrote: > I think the big thing is that they can't repair the > problem. The 30 > business days seems to be my only real option and they've > only had it > since two weeks ago. Nine business days. They have 21 > business days left > to fix it. > > Carl ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 12:28:29 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:28:11 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Rider Risks To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Glenn Dysart wrote: > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > > > This was sobering for me. I had people tell me with > > a straight face that > > one piece of gravel on a high speed turn will ruin > > your whole year. > > I've always loved this "myth". Hitting a piece of > gravel in the road will usually just cause the gravel > to fling away from the tire and at most cause the bike > to slide a foot or so. No_big_deal. If I had a > nickel for every piece of gravel I've hit high speed > in a corner I'd be rich. but.... you ARE rich, glenn.... hmmm -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 12:40:21 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:40:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't know. Logically it'd be the days that the mechanics could work on the vehicle. In the case of East Coast, it'd be Tuesday through Saturday. It could also mean a standard business day of Monday through Friday or even the dealership hours of Monday through Sunday or even the coinciding hours of the parts delivery folks _and_ the mechanics hours; Tuesday through Friday. I'd have to do more research on it. Carl --- Tom Gimer wrote: > how is "business day" defined in the statutory scheme? > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 13:04:27 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:04:19 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX did someone mention va. code ann. M-' 59.1-207.13 (reproduced below)? "calendar," not "business" -- tg (not a va. lawyer, not YOUR lawyer, just a marylander who went through a somewhat similar process) --- Carl Schelin wrote: > I don't know. > > Logically it'd be the days that the mechanics could work > on the vehicle. > In the case of East Coast, it'd be Tuesday through > Saturday. > > It could also mean a standard business day of Monday > through Friday or > even the dealership hours of Monday through Sunday or > even the coinciding > hours of the parts delivery folks _and_ the mechanics > hours; Tuesday > through Friday. > > I'd have to do more research on it. > > Carl > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > how is "business day" defined in the statutory scheme? Va. Code Ann. M-' 59.1-207.13 TITLE 59.1. TRADE AND COMMERCE CHAPTER 17.3. MOTOR VEHICLE WARRANTY ENFORCEMENT ACT Va. Code Ann. M-' 59.1-207.13 (2003) M-' 59.1-207.13. Nonconformity of motor vehicles A. If the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers do not conform the motor vehicle to any applicable warranty by repairing or correcting any defect or condition, including those that do not affect the driveability of the vehicle, which significantly impairs the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts during the lemon law rights period, the manufacturer shall: 1. Replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle acceptable to the consumer, or 2. Accept return of the motor vehicle and refund to the consumer, lessor, and any lienholder as their interest may appear the full contract price, including all collateral charges, incidental damages, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle up to the date of the first notice of nonconformity that is given to the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealer. Refunds or replacements shall be made to the consumer, lessor or lienholder, if any, as their interests may appear. The consumer shall have the unconditional right to choose a refund rather than a replacement vehicle and to drive the motor vehicle until he receives either the replacement vehicle or the refund. The subtraction of a reasonable allowance for use shall apply to either a replacement or refund of the motor vehicle. Mileage, expenses, and reasonable loss of use necessitated by attempts to conform such motor vehicle to the express warranty may be recovered by the consumer. A1. In the case of a replacement of or refund for a leased vehicle, in addition to any other damages provided in this chapter, the motor vehicle shall be returned to the manufacturer and the consumer's written lease shall be terminated by the lessor without penalty to the consumer. The lessor shall transfer title to the manufacturer as necessary to effectuate the consumer's rights pursuant to this chapter, whether the consumer chooses vehicle replacement or a refund. B. It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to any warranty and that the motor vehicle is significantly impaired if during the period of eighteen months following the date of original delivery of the motor vehicle to the consumer either: 1. The same nonconformity has been subject to repair three or more times by the manufacturer, its agents or its authorized dealers and the same nonconformity continues to exist; 2. The nonconformity is a serious safety defect and has been subject to repair one or more times by the manufacturer, its agent or its authorized dealer and the same nonconformity continues to exist; or 3. The motor vehicle is out of service due to repair for a cumulative total of thirty calendar days, unless such repairs could not be performed because of conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers, including war, invasion, strike, fire, flood or other natural disasters. C. The lemon law rights period shall be extended if the manufacturer has been notified but the nonconformity has not been effectively repaired by the manufacturer, or its agent, by the expiration of the lemon law rights period. D. The manufacturer shall clearly and conspicuously disclose to the consumer, in the warranty or owner's manual, that written notification of the nonconformity to the manufacturer is required before the consumer may be eligible for a refund or replacement of the vehicle under this chapter. The manufacturer shall include with the warranty or owner's manual the name and address to which the consumer shall send such written notification. E. It shall be the responsibility of the consumer, or his representative, prior to availing himself of the provisions of this section, to notify the manufacturer of the need for the correction or repair of the nonconformity, unless the manufacturer has been notified as defined in M-' 59.1-207.11. If the manufacturer or factory representative has not been notified of the conditions set forth in subsection B of this section and any of the conditions set forth in subsection B of this section already exists, the manufacturer shall be given an additional opportunity, not to exceed fifteen days, to correct or repair the nonconformity. If notification shall be mailed to an authorized dealer, the authorized dealer shall upon receipt forward such notification to the manufacturer. F. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to limit or impair the rights and remedies of a consumer under any other law. G. It is an affirmative defense to any claim under this chapter that: 1. An alleged nonconformity does not significantly impair the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle; or 2. A nonconformity is the result of abuse, neglect or unauthorized modification or alteration of a motor vehicle by a consumer. HISTORY: 1984, c. 773; 1987, c. 607; 1988, c. 603; 1990, c. 772; 1998, c. 671. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 13:08:18 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 13:07:03 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) Last time I had dealings with "business days" in the commonwealth of Virginia, there were 5 business days per week, mon/fri, excluding national holidays. Your repair situation seems out of order. Parts can be DXed (dealer exchanged) and I find it hard to believe with all the H-D dealers in a hundred mile radius that your fancy warrenty if burning down while the object of the warrenty is gathering dust at the dealer's repair shop. I'd be calling Milwaukee and pitching a bitch... Bill Carl Schelin wrote: > I don't know. > > Logically it'd be the days that the mechanics could work on the vehicle. > In the case of East Coast, it'd be Tuesday through Saturday. > > It could also mean a standard business day of Monday through Friday or > even the dealership hours of Monday through Sunday or even the coinciding > hours of the parts delivery folks _and_ the mechanics hours; Tuesday > through Friday. > > I'd have to do more research on it. > > Carl > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > how is "business day" defined in the statutory scheme? > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 16:11:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Wayne Edelen , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 16:11:41 -0500 I was thinking fly in low on a small air craft and parachute in the rose garden. I think that would be more romantic. Rob On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:26:42 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > Maybe. Meet me at my house and we can discuss it. Just hop the > fence and come around to the office window, it's a shortcut. > > -- Mike B. > > At 01:23 AM 12/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >And finally upon the advice of the DC-cycle attorney will you travel to > >Vermont and get married to me :-p > > > >Rob > > > >On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > >> At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >> >Hey Bartman, > >> > > >> >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have > you > >> >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a > >> >survey, uh yeah. > >> > >> 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, > >> D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle > >> reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone > >> production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. > >> > >> Good luck with the survey. > >> > >> -- Mike B. > >> > >> > **************************************************************************** > >> * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > >> Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > >> Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > >> Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > >> --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > >> all! No job too small! No price too high! * > >**************************************************************************** > > > > > >-- > >Rob Sharp > >1996 Honda VFR 750 > >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > >Network Security Engineer > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 18:19:21 2003 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2003 15:19:18 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Lemon laws (was: RE: and so it begins) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cool, thanks. Still though, it's not like they're not fixing it, just taking a long time to do it. I'll save this info though. Thanks. Carl Tom Gimer wrote:did someone mention va. code ann. M-' 59.1-207.13 (reproduced below)? "calendar," not "business" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 6 23:58:12 2003 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 23:58:16 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Well, the Rose Garden is kind of small for parachuting. You might want to start up in the air somewhere and parachute *into* it. -- Mike B. At 04:11 PM 12/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >I was thinking fly in low on a small air craft and parachute in the rose >garden. I think that would be more romantic. > >Rob > >On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 03:26:42 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote >> Maybe. Meet me at my house and we can discuss it. Just hop the >> fence and come around to the office window, it's a shortcut. >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> At 01:23 AM 12/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >> >And finally upon the advice of the DC-cycle attorney will you travel to >> >Vermont and get married to me :-p >> > >> >Rob >> > >> >On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote >> >> At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >> >> >Hey Bartman, >> >> > >> >> >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have >> you >> >> >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a >> >> >survey, uh yeah. >> >> >> >> 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, >> >> D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle >> >> reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone >> >> production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. >> >> >> >> Good luck with the survey. >> >> >> >> -- Mike B. >> >> >> >> >> **************************************************************************** >> >> * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation >> >> Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled >> >> Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options >> >> Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ >> >> --------------------------------------------* * "We do it >> >> all! No job too small! No price too high! * >> >**************************************************************************** >> > >> > >> >-- >> >Rob Sharp >> >1996 Honda VFR 750 >> >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >> >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >> >Network Security Engineer >> > > > >-- >Rob Sharp >1996 Honda VFR 750 >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >Network Security Engineer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 00:07:31 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" Subject: RE: dealership recommendation Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 00:06:47 -0500 oh, God. Can we please give this up? Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum about???? LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 01:07:44 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 01:08:10 -0500 To: "LindaT." , "Dc-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: dealership recommendation At 12:06 AM 12/7/03 -0500, LindaT. wrote: >oh, God. Can we please give this up? I sure hope so. >Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum about???? Probably lots of things. How about motorcycles and riding them? Or designing them? Or building them? Or maintaining them? We should probably steer clear of the "which one is best" question or the juvies on the list will be back to their "mine's bigger" games again. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 07:02:02 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 07:00:45 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "LindaT." CC: Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation "LindaT." wrote: > oh, God. Can we please give this up? > > Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum about???? > > LindaT. OIL! Synthetic v dyno! Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting methods for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we here yet? Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 09:27:26 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: RE: dealership recommendation Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 09:27:18 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c260988a89e94b81ab6bce1bc9f5a409844b6548b785378294e88350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting methods for a laptop computer >cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we here yet? Ya know, Bill - with the advent of tablet computers (no hinged screen to flop around), this isn't all that far fetched. Hmmm... Michael J. AKA Inspector Gadget From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 12:23:30 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:26:28 -0500 Subject: Was: dealership recommendation; now gps To: "William J. Huson" Cc: Dc-Cycles From: "garcia oliver" Ok. I have a handheld Magellan 305 (I think) and just bought a laptop. What map software would folks recommend? I want something that shows minor (preferably including dirt/gravel) roads. Anyone using monochrome Palm Pilots with gps? are the screens big enough to be useful? Any favorite websites for this sort of info? Thanks. --garcia "We're lost, but we're making good time." "William J. Huson" writes: > oh, God. Can we please give this up? >> >> Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum >about???? >> >> LindaT. > >OIL! Synthetic v dyno! Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting >methods >for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we >here >yet? > >Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 13:02:58 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:02:48 EST Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/5/2003 2:52:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > Assualt rifles are > usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em fast. > They are _all_ assault rifles, it you are on the end with the hole..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 13:30:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 13:30:13 EST Subject: Re: Newbie crawling (was Re: Re: dealership recommendation) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just some good general advice. If you can spend some time on a dirt bike _do so._ Nothing prepares you for slipping, sliding, brake lock ups and other stuff we are "talking" about then riding on the dirt and mud (or snow and ice for that matter.) What a dirt bike does at relatively slow speeds on relatively soft dirt a street bike does at much higher speeds. (And it is fun!) A substantial tire slide on my ST rarely even raises my adrenaline level, in fact my usual thought is "that was fun." That is not intended as a brag, I spent years riding and competing on dirt bikes, I would be a sorry rider if I could not handle a little slide at this point in my life. My general rule of thumb as far as sand, gravel, and even ice is "If it is big enough to knock you down, it is big enough to see on time to avoid" But that assumes some comfort level with the bike sliding around a bit, so you do not panic. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 13:32:05 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 10:31:47 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Probably lots of things. How about motorcycles and riding them? Or > designing them? Or building them? I bought an oil tank for my chop last week. It showed up Friday so I quickly cable-tied it to the frame to see where it should go. I have my eye on a nice looking tank and my new forks (33" straight leg springers; chrome springs and black legs) should be in by the end of the month. I have a solid-state rectifier/regulator and new steering bearings coming in soon. I just need to find handlebars and fenders and then put it together to note where to put the bolt on tabs (forward controls, oil tank, fender, battery box, coil mount, gas tank mount; hmm, I'll need to make up a list). I'm getting close enough to start worrying about details; like new lines, head lights and signals, license plate holder, how to mount the front disc brake (there're instructions on the HondaChopper website :-)... Time to make a list. > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 15:11:02 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "garcia oliver" , "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: Was: dealership recommendation; now gps Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:10:53 -0500 If it's the High Res palm then it would probably be good enough to use. I have a Garmin Etrex legend GPS and it's like 160x120, it's small but useful. Rob On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:26:28 -0500, garcia oliver wrote > Ok. I have a handheld Magellan 305 (I think) and just bought a > laptop. What map software would folks recommend? I want something > that shows minor > (preferably including dirt/gravel) roads. > > Anyone using monochrome Palm Pilots with gps? are the screens big enough > to be useful? > > Any favorite websites for this sort of info? > > Thanks. > > --garcia > > "We're lost, but we're making good time." > > "William J. Huson" writes: > > oh, God. Can we please give this up? > >> > >> Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum > >about???? > >> > >> LindaT. > > > >OIL! Synthetic v dyno! Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting > >methods > >for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we > >here > >yet? > > > >Bill -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 15:13:09 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Rob Sharp" , "garcia oliver" , "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX, Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: Was: dealership recommendation; now gps Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:13:04 -0500 I should add, you need something with a backlight! I think some of the palms don't have any or poor backlights. Rob On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:10:53 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote > If it's the High Res palm then it would probably be good enough to > use. I have a Garmin Etrex legend GPS and it's like 160x120, it's > small but useful. > > Rob > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:26:28 -0500, garcia oliver wrote > > Ok. I have a handheld Magellan 305 (I think) and just bought a > > laptop. What map software would folks recommend? I want something > > that shows minor > > (preferably including dirt/gravel) roads. > > > > Anyone using monochrome Palm Pilots with gps? are the screens big enough > > to be useful? > > > > Any favorite websites for this sort of info? > > > > Thanks. > > > > --garcia > > > > "We're lost, but we're making good time." > > > > "William J. Huson" writes: > > > oh, God. Can we please give this up? > > >> > > >> Isn't there anything else out there we can chatter ad infinitum > > >about???? > > >> > > >> LindaT. > > > > > >OIL! Synthetic v dyno! Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting > > >methods > > >for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we > > >here > > >yet? > > > > > >Bill > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 15:22:20 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:22:14 -0500 From: Skip Smith CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation you know, what the president could really use is a chocolate handgun. But he's really busy, so the best way to get it to him is to wait until he's in a public setting, and then run up to him and try to hand it to him. Mike Bartman wrote: > > Maybe. Meet me at my house and we can discuss it. Just hop the fence and > come around to the office window, it's a shortcut. > > -- Mike B. > > At 01:23 AM 12/6/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >And finally upon the advice of the DC-cycle attorney will you travel to > >Vermont and get married to me :-p > > > >Rob > > > >On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:05:16 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > >> At 02:59 PM 12/5/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >> >Hey Bartman, > >> > > >> >Whats your SSN, DOB, current address and type of employment. Also have > you > >> >had an recent operations or health related conditions. I uh need it for a > >> >survey, uh yeah. > >> > >> 666-01-4321, December 7, 1942, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, > >> D.C., 90210, and I'm independently wealthy. I had testicle > >> reduction surgery and I take medicine to reduce testosterone > >> production to a safe level. Other than that, I'm fine. > >> > >> Good luck with the survey. > >> > >> -- Mike B. > >> > >> > **************************************************************************** > >> * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > >> Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > >> Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > >> Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > >> --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > >> all! No job too small! No price too high! * > >**************************************************************************** > > > > > >-- > >Rob Sharp > >1996 Honda VFR 750 > >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > >Network Security Engineer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 15:50:52 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:49:41 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: mjordan812@XXXXXX CC: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Michael Jordan wrote: > >Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting methods for a laptop computer > >cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we here yet? > > Ya know, Bill - with the advent of tablet computers (no hinged screen to > flop around), this isn't all that far fetched. > > Hmmm... > > Michael J. > AKA Inspector Gadget True, but even with a small GPS enabled PDA I have a problem with setting one up so they can be used on the fly. That would be a detraction from full time and attention to the primary task, staying upright and in one piece. Using one while on a butt-break is okay, but why spend $400+ when maps are free! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 15:56:42 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:55:32 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie crawling (was Re: Re: dealership recommendation) You might be on to something there. Bike #3 fer me was an enduro (dual purpose) and I ragged that bugger on the trails and in the woods, skids galore. Last time I experianced a serious anal-pucker rear wheel slide was Sep `01 while on my way to MI in the rain. The ol' mostly bald Hawg tire let go in a long sweeper turn from I-70 to I-68 and even at my advanced age and with suspect reaction time I saved it rather easily and smoothly. Felt natural. Bill PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Just some good general advice. If you can spend some time on a dirt bike _do > so._ > Nothing prepares you for slipping, sliding, brake lock ups and other stuff we > are "talking" about then riding on the dirt and mud (or snow and ice for that > matter.) What a dirt bike does at relatively slow speeds on relatively soft > dirt a street bike does at much higher speeds. (And it is fun!) A substantial > tire slide on my ST rarely even raises my adrenaline level, in fact my usual > thought is "that was fun." That is not intended as a brag, I spent years riding > and competing on dirt bikes, I would be a sorry rider if I could not handle a > little slide at this point in my life. > My general rule of thumb as far as sand, gravel, and even ice is "If it is > big enough to knock you down, it is big enough to see on time to avoid" > But that assumes some comfort level with the bike sliding around a bit, so > you do not panic. > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 16:54:26 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:08:05 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Turbo Hayabusa Ghostrider's latest trailer: http://www.csupomona.edu/~bchau/ghostrider's%20hayabusa%20turbo%202.wmv 180+mph wheelies, just pure insanity. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 17:14:03 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:13:53 -0500 > > Assualt rifles are > > usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em fast. Actually, they're low to medium powered rifles. The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy, and the 5.56 (M-16 and clones) isn't even legal for hunting deer in the good old USofA. They're actually designed to wound rather than kill. If you kill an enemy soldier, you take one man out of action. If you wound him, you take (at least) two men out of action (the woundee and one to take care of him). Michael J. AMA IBA NRA USAF (Ret) etc. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 17:14:10 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:14:02 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Some idiots never learn. To: Dick Anker , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dick Anker wrote: > Gimer moaned: > >tg ( this tiffy with mb is getting old. where's > >anker?) > > Get off it, Gimer - everyone is tired of hearing your > loud-mouthed, > holier-than-though drivel. Why don't you shove your head > up your ass where > it belongs? well now, lookie what the cat dragged in.... > [Dave] How 'bout Squeakers? > > If you really want that miserable twat to come back, then > you should go join > Gimer in Dipshit Land. dipshit land!?!? your material has gotten pretty darn weak, hasn't it yanker? > I figure with all of the shitty weather, the list ought > to be good for a > laugh. recent threads indicate that all humor is soon to be eliminated from dcc through some sort of new filtering mechanism > Of course, that's the same sort of brain dead thinking I > would expect from > mouth-breathing invertebrates like Gimer. > I think I'll grab another cup of coffee and go back to > drooling over my new > SV650 motored YSR. - Should be fun when the roads thaw > out... why wait for the thaw? i for one believe you're talented enough to ride that dildo of yours all winter. > Dick E. Anker, Esq. > 1989 YSR650 ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 17:16:59 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: GPS Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:16:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609de1dd1ee6f6006bd882baefff3899568a8438e0f32a48e08350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Try the Garmin GPSMap 176 (the B/W model - NOT the color one). It's a bit pricey, but works absolutely beautifully on motorcycles. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 17:36:41 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 14:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: GPS To: "'Dc-Cycles'" i narrowed my search down to the garmin etrex vista. basemap plus 16-24mb of space for more detail in selected areas. if anyone thinks receiving one of these will NOT give me a merry christmas, please speak up! i plan to use this item in a ram mount on both the duc and the xr. note: if you feel that the discontinued emap is still a better choice, also speak up! THANK YOU --- Michael Jordan wrote: > Try the Garmin GPSMap 176 (the B/W model - NOT the color > one). It's a bit > pricey, but works absolutely beautifully on motorcycles. > > Michael J. > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 17:45:59 2003 Subject: RE: Turbo Hayabusa Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 17:45:52 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Wayne Edelen" , His 2 videos are insane. At one point in his second video, the rider is going ~3x the speed of traffic on a 2 lane street, and he pulls a wheelie on the double yellow as he passes a truck/bus on his right, and has approaching vehicles inches from his left. hmmm... The rest of the video is mostly him going really fast through traffic. He is basically topping out and not letting off the gas, going a steady 170-180mph through traffic, between traffic, on the shoulders, etc. Witold -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] Sent: Sun 12/7/2003 5:08 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Subject: Turbo Hayabusa Ghostrider's latest trailer: http://www.csupomona.edu/~bchau/ghostrider's%20hayabusa%20turbo%202.wmv 180+mph wheelies, just pure insanity. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 19:12:43 2003 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'Tom Gimer'" , "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: RE: GPS Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:12:26 -0500 Tom, As a big fan of Garmin GPSes, I'd encourage you to rethink your choice. I've owned an eTrex Vista. It is a great unit that has a lot of features packed into it. My biggest gripe was that it was not very good at satellite acquisition. I've used it in all sorts of areas (lightly covered forest, cities, suburbs, etc) and it just didn't pick up satellites very well. The last straw for me was when I got into geocaching. I took it out with a friend of mine into various forests and it couldn't stay locked on, so it was useless to me. From that point on, I'd swear I'd only buy a Garmin GPS that was capable of supporting an external antenna (in case I needed one). I "swapped" it on eBay for a GPS V (I sold the eTrex Vista for the same price I paid for the GPS V). Even with the stock antenna on the V, I get great reception in all the areas where I had trouble with the eTrex. I did buy an external antenna for it, but I haven't had time to try it out. For motorcycle use, I have a StreetPilot. Perhaps my unit was faulty. If you're really set on getting this unit, at least buy it from a place that has a liberal return policy. Test it thoroughly to see if it meets your expectations. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 5:37 PM > To: 'Dc-Cycles' > Subject: Re: GPS > > i narrowed my search down to the garmin etrex vista. > basemap plus 16-24mb of space for more detail in selected > areas. if anyone thinks receiving one of these will NOT give > me a merry christmas, please speak up! i plan to use this > item in a ram mount on both the duc and the xr. > > note: if you feel that the discontinued emap is still a > better choice, also speak up! THANK YOU > > --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > Try the Garmin GPSMap 176 (the B/W model - NOT the color > one). It's a > > bit pricey, but works absolutely beautifully on motorcycles. > > > > Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 19:28:58 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:31:51 -0500 From: Steve Price To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation >Anti-gunners are usually people who know nothing about firearms but want >to ban them. I prefer 7.62X51 either in my FAL or M1A both extremely >accurate. >Steve Price >NRA Life 25 years > >Michael Jordan wrote: > > > >>>>Assualt rifles are >>>>usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>fast. >> >>Actually, they're low to medium powered rifles. >> >>The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy, and the 5.56 (M-16 and clones) isn't >>even legal for hunting deer in the good old USofA. >> >>They're actually designed to wound rather than kill. If you kill an enemy >>soldier, you take one man out of action. If you wound him, you take (at >>least) two men out of action (the woundee and one to take care of him). >> >>Michael J. >>AMA >>IBA >>NRA >>USAF (Ret) >>etc. >> >> >> >> > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 21:19:59 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: RE: GPS Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:19:51 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609643252afd9152e05c40d5605ddb9135593caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Tom - I'm definitely a Garmin fan - I would look for something with the capability for an external antenna. I don't think that the totally enclosed antennae of the e-Trex series are as sensitive as the flip up type on the GPS III/V, GPSMap176 or Street Pilots' are. Another thing is to check their water repellency - I'm not sure which of Garmin's are (the GPS III/V series and the GPSMap 176s are waterproof (for all practical purposes)) Yet anudder is memory - the more you have, the more maps you can load. I can get a boatload of stuff into the 128MB cartridge for my 176. Michael J. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 17:37 To: 'Dc-Cycles' Subject: Re: GPS i narrowed my search down to the garmin etrex vista. basemap plus 16-24mb of space for more detail in selected areas. if anyone thinks receiving one of these will NOT give me a merry christmas, please speak up! i plan to use this item in a ram mount on both the duc and the xr. note: if you feel that the discontinued emap is still a better choice, also speak up! THANK YOU --- Michael Jordan wrote: > Try the Garmin GPSMap 176 (the B/W model - NOT the color one). It's a > bit pricey, but works absolutely beautifully on motorcycles. > > Michael J. > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 21:52:41 2003 Subject: RE: GPS Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:52:32 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: , "Dc-Cycles" I have a Garmin Streetpilot 3. I just throw it in my bookbag or tailbag, but my winter project is to hook it up to my bike without frying it. The device has proved useful in many ways. It has given me the confidence to just go, and not worry about trying to get home. But as far as electronic devices go, it has many annoyances and shortcomings. It's slow, and uses proprietary memory cards and maps. The other day I got an email from Garmin telling me that if I want updated maps, I need to shell out another $150. If I was in your shoes, I would look into PDA+GPS attachment. Something better has to be out there. It may cost more initially, but it will save you frustration and future expenses. Not to mention that it's more flexible. Witold -----Original Message----- From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 17:37 To: 'Dc-Cycles' Subject: Re: GPS i narrowed my search down to the garmin etrex vista. basemap plus 16-24mb of space for more detail in selected areas. if anyone thinks receiving one of these will NOT give me a merry christmas, please speak up! i plan to use this item in a ram mount on both the duc and the xr. note: if you feel that the discontinued emap is still a better choice, also speak up! THANK YOU From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 22:16:09 2003 Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:15:41 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy/... .308s are wimpy? > USAF (Ret) Ah, that explains it. Too much time in Spooky gunships. 8;) -- Larry US Army, Ordnance Corps __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 23:31:33 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Nolan Flip Face Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 23:36:23 -0500 My Nolan has developed the annoying habit of only opening with both hands, rather than one. In trying to figure out why, it looks like both latches are releasing when the one button is pushed, but it's just not going up. Maybe the hinges are binding? Anybody have a similar problem? Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 23:54:35 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:41:47 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: dealership recommendation At 10:31 AM 12/7/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >I bought an oil tank for my chop last week. It showed up Friday so I >quickly cable-tied it to the frame to see where it should go. You're basing your chopper on a used Honda, right? Are you swapping the engine out? I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? Never got into working on mine...I let Heyser Cycles do that...but I don't remember seeing an external tank. >I just need to find handlebars and fenders and then put it together to >note where to put the bolt on tabs (forward controls, oil tank, fender, >battery box, coil mount, gas tank mount; hmm, I'll need to make up a >list). Not going to make your own handlebars? I hear that that manual bender that they use a lot on American Choppers is only about $600 new, probably less used, and maybe pretty cheap for the Chinese knock-off from Harbor Frieght. :^) Is there any reason you can't heat-bend handle bars and skip the machinery? A list sounds like a good idea. Just to get things done in the right order, if not to make sure you haven't overlooked any required parts or services. >I'm getting close enough to start worrying about details; like new lines, >head lights and signals, license plate holder, how to mount the front disc >brake (there're instructions on the HondaChopper website :-)... Time to >make a list. I've got an old J&P 2003 catalog you can have if you want to browse for ideas. It's all Harley-oriented stuff, but maybe some of it will work? Custom Chrome has their catalog on-line in PDF format. It's a bunch of megabytes, but you can download it by chapter if you don't need to see everything. Chapters are broken down by subject: lights, chassis, engine, wheels, clothing, misc., etc.. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 7 23:54:35 2003 Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:30:46 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , "LindaT." From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: Dc-Cycles At 07:00 AM 12/7/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: > Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting methods >for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we here >yet? Is there anything better than RAM mounts? Perhaps with some TourTech parts mixed in? I suppose it might matter how big a laptop computer we are talking about. The sort of mount made for the Street Pilot III GPS should handle one of the little Sony ones, or those new "tablet" types, if you can figure out how to attach to the mount (epoxy? Screws from inside the laptop? Make a frame from aluminum and rubber strips?). The SPIII mounts have vibration isolators in them, which, when combined with the rubber in the RAM balls, should reduce vibration at the laptop considerably. OTOH, given the power in some palmtops, or even the features in something like the Street Pilot GPS, why do you want a laptop involved? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 01:19:31 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 00:19:40 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Larry wrote: >--- Michael Jordan wrote: > > The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy/... > >.308s are wimpy? > > > USAF (Ret) > >Ah, that explains it. Too much time in Spooky gunships. 8;) The 7.62x39 round used in at AK-47/SKS rifles IS NOT the same cartridge as a .308 Winchest - not even close. The .308 Winchester (all things considered) is a much hotter round than the 7.62x39. Compare the rounds at: http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballistics/ballistics.htm - Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 06:57:20 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 06:56:02 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: "LindaT." , Dc-Cycles Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Er ... Mike, that was a joke on my part, I was funnin'. Not having wads of $$$ falling outta my pockets, a GPS is an uneeded luxury to me. I've made a voyage in my 18' outboard from DC to NC using nothing but a compass and chart. Navigation on a scoot is easy, the channels are clearly marked and often paved! Bill Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:00 AM 12/7/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: > > Or my fav (har har) tank/handlebar mounting methods > >for a laptop computer cabled to a GPS for navigation purposes! Are we here > >yet? > > Is there anything better than RAM mounts? Perhaps with some TourTech parts > mixed in? > > I suppose it might matter how big a laptop computer we are talking about. > The sort of mount made for the Street Pilot III GPS should handle one of > the little Sony ones, or those new "tablet" types, if you can figure out > how to attach to the mount (epoxy? Screws from inside the laptop? Make a > frame from aluminum and rubber strips?). The SPIII mounts have vibration > isolators in them, which, when combined with the rubber in the RAM balls, > should reduce vibration at the laptop considerably. > > OTOH, given the power in some palmtops, or even the features in something > like the Street Pilot GPS, why do you want a laptop involved? > > -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 07:59:44 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: RE: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:59:40 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609edd5f5b841ab22e1e9a1f0200dc858bfa7ce0e8f8d31aa3f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >Navigation on a scoot is easy, the channels are clearly marked and often paved! So THAT'S what that black stuff is!!! Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 08:02:15 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: , Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:02:13 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609edd5f5b841ab22e16d68b937001b528c2601a10902912494350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >Ah, that explains it. Too much time in Spooky gunships. 8;) With all due respect, Sir - far better than being down in the mud... ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 08:06:44 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: RE: GPS Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:06:41 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609edd5f5b841ab22e1198237e1b4af111e93caf27dac41a8fd350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >It's >slow, and uses proprietary memory cards and maps. The GPSMap 176 is very fast - still uses the @*$&^% memoty cards, though. >if I want updated maps, I need to shell out another $150. Their software is good, but it IS expensive. >If I was in your shoes, I would look into PDA+GPS attachment. Not water resistant - important if it's hanging out in space on your scooter. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:24:15 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Automatic Transmission Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:24:12 -0500 Didn't Terry Cunningham win a National chamionship on the Husky 430 auto? I seem to remember seeing them at enduros and hare scrambles as late as 1988 or 1989.... --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Now: Automatic Transmission on Bikes ? WAS: More Weirdness in the cold > There have been several automatic transmission bikes over the years, Honda > built two a 400cc and a 750cc, Guzzi built at least one, I _think_ it was > 1000cc. and even Husky built a fully automatic dirt bike 400cc. > None of them sold worth a damn. > And lets not forget scooters. > (By far my favorite of the automatics was the Husky, it was _tiny_ smaller > then the standard transmission. A really clever design. The only downside was > that there was _no,_ and I mean OMYGODHOLYSHIT _NO!!_ compression braking. If > you were used to even the most pathetic two cycle (very little compression > braking) it felt like someone came up behind you and _pushed_ when you rolled off > the throttle. You had to be damn good with the brakes to ride the thing.) > > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:28:14 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Steve Price , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:28:13 -0500 Whatever, keep trying to defend automatic high capcity rifles. I am not an anti gunner, but you can make your ASSumptions all you want. You don't even ask you just call me uninformed. Well 90% of the BS on this list is uniformed and quoting bullet sizes and crap definetly doesn't make the AK47 any less of a military weapon, designed to kill people and a LOT of em FAST. or wait maybe it's got a 30 round clip is so you can take down a heard of deer really fast? Rob 25 years old I have shot over 35 weapons in my time and I DON't think they should outlaw GUNS. But hey why ask, when you can ASSume On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:31:51 -0500, Steve Price wrote > >Anti-gunners are usually people who know nothing about firearms but want > >to ban them. I prefer 7.62X51 either in my FAL or M1A both extremely > >accurate. > >Steve Price > >NRA Life 25 years > > > >Michael Jordan wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>Assualt rifles are > >>>>usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>fast. > >> > >>Actually, they're low to medium powered rifles. > >> > >>The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy, and the 5.56 (M-16 and clones) isn't > >>even legal for hunting deer in the good old USofA. > >> > >>They're actually designed to wound rather than kill. If you kill an enemy > >>soldier, you take one man out of action. If you wound him, you take (at > >>least) two men out of action (the woundee and one to take care of him). > >> > >>Michael J. > >>AMA > >>IBA > >>NRA > >>USAF (Ret) > >>etc. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:38:08 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:38:01 EST Subject: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:54:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? The original 750 four used an oil tank as do at least some of their four cycle dirt bikes. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:52:42 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Rob Sharp" , Steve Price , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:52:40 -0500 Sorry this wasn't supposed to go the list :-/ Rob On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:28:13 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote > Whatever, keep trying to defend automatic high capcity rifles. > > I am not an anti gunner, but you can make your ASSumptions all you want. > > You don't even ask you just call me uninformed. Well 90% of the BS > on this list is uniformed and quoting bullet sizes and crap > definetly doesn't make the AK47 any less of a military weapon, > designed to kill people and a LOT of em FAST. or wait maybe it's > got a 30 round clip is so you can take down a heard of deer really fast? > > Rob > 25 years old > I have shot over 35 weapons in my time and I DON't think they should > outlaw GUNS. But hey why ask, when you can ASSume > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 19:31:51 -0500, Steve Price wrote > > >Anti-gunners are usually people who know nothing about firearms but want > > >to ban them. I prefer 7.62X51 either in my FAL or M1A both extremely > > >accurate. > > >Steve Price > > >NRA Life 25 years > > > > > >Michael Jordan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>Assualt rifles are > > >>>>usally high powered rifles that are made to kill people and a lot of em > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>fast. > > >> > > >>Actually, they're low to medium powered rifles. > > >> > > >>The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy, and the 5.56 (M-16 and clones) isn't > > >>even legal for hunting deer in the good old USofA. > > >> > > >>They're actually designed to wound rather than kill. If you kill an enemy > > >>soldier, you take one man out of action. If you wound him, you take (at > > >>least) two men out of action (the woundee and one to take care of him). > > >> > > >>Michael J. > > >>AMA > > >>IBA > > >>NRA > > >>USAF (Ret) > > >>etc. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:53:09 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Friday riders Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:53:06 -0500 Great pix! Thanks. --jon > On Fri, 2003-12-05 at 10:52, Randy Moran wrote: > > I hope this hasn't already been posted: > > > > http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29723 > > > > This is when men were men and sheep were nervous. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 09:54:44 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:54:42 -0500 My VFR has an oil cooler but I think it just lives in the crankcase. Rob On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 09:38:01 EST, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:54:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? > > The original 750 four used an oil tank as do at least some of their > four cycle dirt bikes. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:00:47 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: , "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: Re: RE: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:00:40 -0500 > > From: "Michael Jordan" > Date: 2003/12/08 Mon AM 07:59:40 EST > To: "'Dc-Cycles'" > Subject: RE: dealership recommendation > > >Navigation on a scoot is easy, the channels are clearly marked and often > paved! > > So THAT'S what that black stuff is!!! > I'm still looking for the purple road my Streetpilot says I'm supposed to be on! Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:03:49 2003 Subject: RE: dealership recommendation From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 10:00:07 -0500 On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 23:41, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:31 AM 12/7/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >I bought an oil tank for my chop last week. It showed up Friday so I > >quickly cable-tied it to the frame to see where it should go. > > You're basing your chopper on a used Honda, right? Are you swapping the > engine out? I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? Never got > into working on mine...I let Heyser Cycles do that...but I don't remember > seeing an external tank. Yep. It was that large silver/chrome cap under your right thigh. On the left side was the electronics; rectifier, regulator, etc. Never checked your oil eh? ;-) > > >I just need to find handlebars and fenders and then put it together to > >note where to put the bolt on tabs (forward controls, oil tank, fender, > >battery box, coil mount, gas tank mount; hmm, I'll need to make up a > >list). > > Not going to make your own handlebars? I hear that that manual bender that > they use a lot on American Choppers is only about $600 new, probably less > used, and maybe pretty cheap for the Chinese knock-off from Harbor Frieght. > :^) > Consider I may just need risers to get the current bars into my hands (it's a bit of a stretch), I think Rita'd kick my butt if I bought a bender. Or at least make me go into the motorcycle business since I have all these tools now. Just a few more and I'm my own shop :-) Besides, new handlebars are $100 or so (e-bay has a nice looking one for $40 "buy-it-now"). > Is there any reason you can't heat-bend handle bars and skip the machinery? > > A list sounds like a good idea. Just to get things done in the right > order, if not to make sure you haven't overlooked any required parts or > services. > The list is up. http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper Feel free to review and let me know if I missed something. > >I'm getting close enough to start worrying about details; like new lines, > >head lights and signals, license plate holder, how to mount the front disc > >brake (there're instructions on the HondaChopper website :-)... Time to > >make a list. > > I've got an old J&P 2003 catalog you can have if you want to browse for > ideas. It's all Harley-oriented stuff, but maybe some of it will work? > I believe I have one as well. I'll pull it out and take a look. Thanks. > Custom Chrome has their catalog on-line in PDF format. It's a bunch of > megabytes, but you can download it by chapter if you don't need to see > everything. Chapters are broken down by subject: lights, chassis, engine, > wheels, clothing, misc., etc.. > I'll note that spot as well. > -- Mike B. > Thanks, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:04:39 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - no Moto Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:04:36 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609f1c4105b4830855d4cc80f6ecea1cf8a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >Whatever, keep trying to defend automatic high capcity rifles. Rob, Why try and ban a weapon based on cosmetics? An AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle - one trigger pull, one round out the barrel. As are a number of "hunting" rifles. The only reason for the present ban is to establish precedent for banning weapons based on a feature - real or perceived. Lessee now - take a "hunting rifle" with a scope and - OH LORDY, MAUDE - IT'S A SNIPER RIFLE - WE'VE GOTTA BAN THOSE THINGS!!!! Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is the total ban of all civilian-owned firearms. Period. They will use what ever tactics necessary (misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal. Assault rifles (per accepted definition) are "select fire" weapons - i.e. they either have a fully automatic mode of a variation of the M-16's "Tri-Burst" feature (one trigger pull, three rounds out the barrel). As far as magazine (not clip - a clip is used to load a magazine) size goes, I can empty 3 10-round magazines almost as quickly as I can unload one 30 round magazine. If these weapons were prevalent in crime, I might give some credence to the ban, but when the Governor of Maryland had to borrow an "Assault Rifle" from a gun shop for a press conference since the State of Maryland didn't have any impounded ones, it is somewhat less than a convinciing argument. There is no RATIONAL reason for the ban. Glad to keep up the dialog (off list). Listers - thanks for the bandwidth. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:07:51 2003 Subject: RE: dealership recommendation From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 10:04:12 -0500 On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 23:41, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:31 AM 12/7/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >I bought an oil tank for my chop last week. It showed up Friday so I > >quickly cable-tied it to the frame to see where it should go. > > You're basing your chopper on a used Honda, right? Are you swapping the > engine out? I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? Never got > into working on mine...I let Heyser Cycles do that...but I don't remember > seeing an external tank. In fact, if you look at: http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper/Dscn2038.jpg You can see the oil tank between the seat and the pizza. It's upside down to keep what's left of the oil from draining on the ground. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:08:02 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:07:54 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face To: Michael Lynch Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Lynch wrote: > My Nolan has developed the annoying habit of only opening > with both hands, > rather than one. In trying to figure out why, it looks > like both latches > are releasing when the one button is pushed, but it's just > not going up. > Maybe the hinges are binding? Anybody have a similar > problem? That seems to be a common complaint in all the flip-ups with a single release on one side, rather than front and center (like the Arrow and HJC). Some people have lubed the hinges and found that to be a fix. Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, since I ride in an older Nolan N-100 with the double release, and think that under certain circumstances, it might be a desirable safety feature. 8;) -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:13:49 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - no Moto Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:13:39 -0500 Someone on the listed asked whats an assualt rifle ? I tried to define it. They were the ones trying to generalize all weapons as bad evil assualt rifles. I was trying to (failed miserably) to classify them as machine guns and army type weapons that have made it into the civilain weapons as modified to semi auto. I am sorry to get everyone in an up roar. I can see I am VERY wrong and very uninformed about the assualt rifle issue. As such I would like to withdrawl all my previous statements regarding the issue Regards, Rob Sharp On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:04:36 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote > >Whatever, keep trying to defend automatic high capcity rifles. > > > Rob, > > Why try and ban a weapon based on cosmetics? An AR-15 is a semi-automatic > rifle - one trigger pull, one round out the barrel. As are a number > of "hunting" rifles. The only reason for the present ban is to establish > precedent for banning weapons based on a feature - real or > perceived. Lessee now - take a "hunting rifle" with a scope and - OH > LORDY, MAUDE - IT'S A SNIPER RIFLE - WE'VE GOTTA BAN THOSE > THINGS!!!! Ad infinitum, ad nauseam. > > The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is the total ban of all civilian-owned > firearms. Period. They will use what ever tactics necessary > (misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal. > > Assault rifles (per accepted definition) are "select fire" weapons - > i.e. they either have a fully automatic mode of a variation of the M- > 16's "Tri-Burst" feature (one trigger pull, three rounds out the > barrel). > > As far as magazine (not clip - a clip is used to load a magazine) > size goes, I can empty 3 10-round magazines almost as quickly as I > can unload one 30 round magazine. If these weapons were prevalent in > crime, I might give some credence to the ban, but when the Governor > of Maryland had to borrow an "Assault Rifle" from a gun shop for a > press conference since the State of Maryland didn't have any > impounded ones, it is somewhat less than a convinciing argument. > > There is no RATIONAL reason for the ban. > > > Glad to keep up the dialog (off list). > Listers - thanks for the bandwidth. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:14:18 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:13:07 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: Steve Price , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Rob Sharp wrote: > or wait maybe it's got a 30 round clip is so you can take down a heard > of deer really fast? Heh. Reminds me of a day when I wuz in college and a local lad sez "Let's go squirrel huntin'" He had a pump shotgun with the block removed, held 6 shells. So goober boy spots a squirrel and opens up - *blam blam blam blam blam blam* Yep, emptied his gun. Unarmed and just along for giggles, I ducked the shower of blown off tree limbs. He wuz a good shot and we found the squirrel, not enough left to make a decent sandwich. No prob for him, he wuz just out for the kill... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:14:42 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:14:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - some non gun Moto content at the end On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Michael Jordan wrote: > > The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is the total ban of all civilian-owned > firearms. Period. They will use what ever tactics necessary > (misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal. I disagree. The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is usually stated as protecting lives, reducing gun related crimes, preventing accidents and so forth. Your statement above, ironically, demonstrates that the Anti-Gun Control side (or at least you, anyhow) will use what ever tactics necessary (misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal, as well. BTW, I always thought "gun control" meant knowing how to handle your fire-arms, being able to shoot straight, and hitting the intended target... :-) MoTo: Does everyone, who, like me, is too much of a weenie to ride through ice and snow, have their Battery Tender's hooked up and running? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:14:48 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:14:41 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Anti-gunners are usually people who know nothing about >firearms but want to ban them. Doesn't that seem completely logical? If you don't know much about guns other than the fact that they can be used to kill people, why would you *not* want to ban them? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:19:52 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Jordan wrote: > Larry wrote: > >--- Michael Jordan wrote: > > > The 7.62X39 (AK-47) is pretty wimpy/... > > > >.308s are wimpy? > > > > > USAF (Ret) > > > >Ah, that explains it. Too much time in Spooky gunships. > 8;) > > > The 7.62x39 round used in at AK-47/SKS rifles IS NOT the > same cartridge as > a .308 Winchest - not even close. The .308 Winchester (all > things > considered) is a much hotter round than the 7.62x39. Ummm, Sean, where did I say ".308 Winchester"? There is a big difference between referring to an approximate caliber and citing a specific cartridge. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:23:09 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:21:57 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX CC: mjordan812@XXXXXX, "'Dc-Cycles'" Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Bob Meyer wrote: > > > > From: "Michael Jordan" > > Date: 2003/12/08 Mon AM 07:59:40 EST > > To: "'Dc-Cycles'" > > Subject: RE: dealership recommendation > > > > >Navigation on a scoot is easy, the channels are clearly marked and often > > paved! > > > > So THAT'S what that black stuff is!!! > > > I'm still looking for the purple road my Streetpilot says I'm supposed to be on! > > Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 Forget the purple roads, try the Blue highways, or better yet, those faint gray roads, so traffic barren you'd have to ask directions from a cow. Course, I'm talking paper map codes... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:23:29 2003 Subject: OffTopic: Ride in this morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 10:19:50 -0500 Sorry to post an off topic message this morning. The ride in was quite brisk. There were a couple of slick spots on my way out to the main drag but it was nice none the less. I passed someone on a bike in the HOV lanes. I couldn't make out what it was though (well, it was a "standard" rather than croch rocket/cruiser, but let's not start _that_ up again :-) Up through Springfield there was another rider on a crotch rocket with a nice looking red windscreen. And the DC guy (or gal) on the yellow (arg, I've looked at it before; Suzuki I think) bike was in my spot at the parking lot. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:36:24 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 07:36:22 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: OffTopic: Ride in this morning On 8 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Sorry to post an off topic message this morning. Heh. > The ride in was quite brisk. There were a couple of slick spots on my > way out to the main drag but it was nice none the less. I just made it in to work -- it's actually a really nice day out there. About 34 degrees, I'd say; I was plenty warm even without the Widder. Pleasant! Not much ice or snow out where I live, so the roads were pretty clear all the way in. No working computer at home, so I've 500+ messages to slog through this morning. What a pain. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:44:54 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:45:06 -0500 Subject: Re: OffTopic: Ride in this morning From: Stephen Miller To: DC-Cycles on 12/8/03 10:36 AM, Fish Flowers at fish@XXXXXX wrote: > I just made it in to work -- it's actually a really nice day out there. > About 34 degrees, I'd say; I was plenty warm even without the Widder. > Pleasant! Not much ice or snow out where I live, so the roads were pretty > clear all the way in. All I can say is you lucked out. We ended up with a foot of snow on the ground here in Towson. The main roads are plowed, but riding on sidestreets would be suicide (actually it would be more comical than deadly), as there's been melting and refreezing all weekend. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:49:11 2003 Subject: Re: OffTopic: Ride in this morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 10:45:33 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 10:36, Fish Flowers wrote: > On 8 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > The ride in was quite brisk. There were a couple of slick spots on my > > way out to the main drag but it was nice none the less. > > I just made it in to work -- it's actually a really nice day out there. > About 34 degrees, I'd say; I was plenty warm even without the Widder. > Pleasant! Not much ice or snow out where I live, so the roads were pretty > clear all the way in. > I had the Gerbing's off initially but as my fingers got cold, I turned it on. At about Springfield I had it up to about two-thirds. Once I got to the backup at 14th street I had it back down to about a quarter and I kept it there until I parked. > No working computer at home, so I've 500+ messages to slog through this > morning. What a pain. > I have a couple of working computers but still have 300 or so messages this morning. 50+ were spam. 57 were from dc-cycles :-/ > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:59:22 2003 Subject: Turbo bunghole Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:59:19 -0500 From: "Dave Blumgart" To: Am I the only one who watched the latter part of that video and thought 'these are the kind of ***holes who give motorcyclists a bad name?' -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] Sent: Sun 12/7/2003 5:08 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Subject: Turbo Hayabusa Ghostrider's latest trailer: http://www.csupomona.edu/~bchau/ghostrider's%20hayabusa%20turbo%202.wmv 180+mph wheelies, just pure insanity. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 10:59:53 2003 From: Jason Picton To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: motorcycle story - probably bogus - but funny nonetheless Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 10:59:07 -0500 http://cuagain.manilasites.com/stories/storyReader$287 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:19:13 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:02:16 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: Dc-Cycles At 06:56 AM 12/8/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Er ... Mike, that was a joke on my part, I was funnin'. Yeah, but it's still a better subject than we had before. :^) >I've made a voyage >in my 18' outboard from DC to NC using nothing but a compass and chart. >Navigation on a scoot is easy, the channels are clearly marked and often paved! Yep. I bought a GPS for hiking, where there aren't always marked channels and you can't always see landmarks. It's also nice for tracking total distance covered without having to play with dividers and do math. Still, I wouldn't have gotten it if I hadn't found a really good deal on one at Costco (only cost about as much as good boots and gloves for riding). Since I had it already, putting it on the bike seemed like a reasonable idea. Getting it some external power was an excuse to play with tools too. ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:19:14 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:18:49 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: dealership recommendation At 10:00 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >Yep. It was that large silver/chrome cap under your right thigh. On the >left side was the electronics; rectifier, regulator, etc. > >Never checked your oil eh? ;-) Yeah, I did, but I don't remember a large silver/chrome cap under my right thigh. A small black one farther down on the engine seems vaguely familiar though... My Heritage had the large chrome cap under the right thigh, but I've swapped it for one with a thermometer gauge on top. I like gauges. :^) >I think Rita'd kick my butt if I bought a >bender. Or at least make me go into the motorcycle business since I have >all these tools now. Just a few more and I'm my own shop :-) Let's see...motorcycle business at the location of your choosing, or a daily commute into D.C. to work on computers...hmmmm....so, when's your grand opening? :^) >> A list sounds like a good idea. Just to get things done in the right >> order, if not to make sure you haven't overlooked any required parts or >> services. > >The list is up. http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper Feel free to >review and let me know if I missed something. Well, I'll review for my own edification, but I suspect that anything I'd notice missing is something that you've already thought of. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:19:20 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:10:30 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Steve Price , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 09:28 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Whatever, keep trying to defend automatic high capcity rifles. >AK47 any less of a military weapon, designed to kill people and a LOT of em Um...the AK47 is a military weapon (Soviet), and it is an automatic (select fire I think, actually). It is, therefore, heavily restricted in the USA and has been since 1936 (well, since it was invented anyway, which is after the law was passed here restricting weapons if its type). There have been no crimes committed in the USA with a legally-owned AK47. They are NOT a problem here. Iraq is different, but we seem to be having some problems implementing restrictions there at the moment. I'm sure that will be resolved eventually. If you don't see a difference between an AK47 and the sort of semi-auto rifles under attack in this country by certain leftist factions, then you would be uninformed in the extreme, but that's easily corrected at a number of web sites, in a lot of books, or by asking anyone who is informed on the subject. An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle, so I'm not going to go into it myself in this forum, despite having really strong feelings on the subject of gun control. -- Mike B. "If a nation values anything more than freedom, it will lose that freedom, and the irony of it is that if it is comfort or money that it values more, it will lose those too." -- Somerset Maugham From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:19:35 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:12:27 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: dealership recommendation At 09:38 AM 12/8/03 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 12/7/2003 11:54:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> I thought Hondas didn't use external oil tanks? > >The original 750 four used an oil tank as do at least some of their four >cycle dirt bikes. Ok, thanks. Did the 700 Saber have one and I just never noticed it, or was that different? It was a Honda 4 cylinder, but I don't think it was the same design as the CB750 engine. Not that I'm any sort of expert on the subject (obviously :^). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:21:47 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:22:24 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: dealership recommendation At 10:04 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper/Dscn2038.jpg > >You can see the oil tank between the seat and the pizza. It's upside >down to keep what's left of the oil from draining on the ground. Well, maybe *you* can see it. On my screen it's a bit small to make out details like that. :^) BTW, were you using the table saw to disassemble the engine, or to cut the pizza? ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:28:00 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <4069.1070900874.1@XXXXXX> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:27:54 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >Um...the AK47 is... Someone mentioned gun, we all got a chubbie, we humped the leg of the list for a bit, now we're done, let's move on. This is a motorcycling list, there are no acceptable off-topic posts (except this one :) -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:38:11 2003 Subject: RE: dealership recommendation From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 11:34:31 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 11:18, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:00 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Yep. It was that large silver/chrome cap under your right thigh. On the > >left side was the electronics; rectifier, regulator, etc. > > > >Never checked your oil eh? ;-) > > Yeah, I did, but I don't remember a large silver/chrome cap under my right > thigh. A small black one farther down on the engine seems vaguely familiar > though... My CB360T had one of those but the 750 does have an external tank. > >I think Rita'd kick my butt if I bought a > >bender. Or at least make me go into the motorcycle business since I have > >all these tools now. Just a few more and I'm my own shop :-) > > Let's see...motorcycle business at the location of your choosing, or a > daily commute into D.C. to work on computers...hmmmm....so, when's your > grand opening? :^) Or turn it around. Let's see, sufficient money to buy all the toys I want, time off to ride around the country(s), time to enjoy other hobbies (like skiing this weekend and out to Colorado in January/February) _ooorrr_ starting over in a new business searching for the OCC break. I dunno. The grand opening may be a little delayed ;-) > > >> A list sounds like a good idea. Just to get things done in the right > >> order, if not to make sure you haven't overlooked any required parts or > >> services. > > > >The list is up. http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper Feel free to > >review and let me know if I missed something. > > Well, I'll review for my own edification, but I suspect that anything I'd > notice missing is something that you've already thought of. > Yea but if I missed it, I'd like to know. Then even if I thought of it, it'd be on the list. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:42:36 2003 Subject: RE: dealership recommendation From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 11:38:56 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 11:22, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:04 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper/Dscn2038.jpg > > > >You can see the oil tank between the seat and the pizza. It's upside > >down to keep what's left of the oil from draining on the ground. > > Well, maybe *you* can see it. On my screen it's a bit small to make out > details like that. :^) > You can do a search on e-bay for a Honda CB360 Oil Tank. Unfortunately it's very slow right now. Must be the Holidays :-) > BTW, were you using the table saw to disassemble the engine, or to cut the > pizza? ;^) > I was using half of it. Just the table :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:44:58 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:42:27 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - some non gun Moto content at the end At 10:14 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Michael Jordan wrote: >> >> The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is the total ban of all civilian-owned >> firearms. Period. They will use what ever tactics necessary >> (misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal. > > I disagree. The "Gun Control" crowd's aim is usually stated as >protecting lives, reducing gun related crimes, preventing accidents and so >forth. Your statement above, ironically, demonstrates that the Anti-Gun >Control side (or at least you, anyhow) will use what ever tactics necessary >(misrepresentation, lying, exploiting a tragedy) to gain their goal, as >well. Actually, the "gun control" crowd has stated that their goal is the elimination of all privately owned firearms for any use other than sport or collecting (most likely in a disabled state, but they didn't go into that at the time they laid out their agenda). Pete Shields, the founder of America's largest gun-prohibition movement (originally called the National Council to Control Handguns; later, Handgun Control, Inc.; currently, the Brady Campaign) explained his three-step program for handgun prohibition in the July 26, 1976 New Yorker: "The first problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns being produced and sold in this country." "The second problem is to get handguns registered." "Our ultimate goal is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition--except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors totally illegal." Seems pretty clear to me. Why do you say it's a lie to claim that they want to eliminate private ownership of guns? As for the rest of what they *say* they are trying to do, yes, that's what they *say*. It bears little relationship to reality though, either in their actions or in the results of their actions. They kill people on a daily basis through their efforts, as well as increasing the numbers of non-fatal gun crimes. Their efforts to keep the NRA from educating kids about gun safety have probably slowed the drop in gun accidents that we've been seeing for over 30 years too. You don't reduce violent crime by making victims more vulnerable to it and life safer for violent criminals. You don't reduce accidents by maintaining ignorance. The facts demonstrate this very clearly if you go look at them. Most good research libraries have lots of data that is relevant (the U. of M. for instance). >MoTo: Does everyone, who, like me, is too much of a weenie to >ride through ice and snow, have their Battery Tender's hooked up and >running? Mine is. I haven't put the cover on the bike yet though, because I'm planning on riding it later this week. Another 80 miles and it's time for the 1000 mile post-break-in service. This is a good time of the year to get work done, as the service department at Battley's is not real busy. Seems most people have their bikes at home with the battery tenders hooked up for the winter. :^) Supposed to be up in the 40s later this week. Maybe some rain tomorrow though...might help wash the salt off of the roads, which would be a Good Thing. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:52:33 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 08:52:30 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face To: Michael Lynch , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" My Nolans get difficult when the latches and hinges need lube. Spray it with WD40 or Silicone lube and it should work a lot better. Leon. --- Michael Lynch wrote: > My Nolan has developed the annoying habit of only > opening with both hands, > rather than one. In trying to figure out why, it > looks like both latches > are releasing when the one button is pushed, but > it's just not going up. > Maybe the hinges are binding? Anybody have a > similar problem? > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:53:41 2003 Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - How about taking it off list? Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:32 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mike Bartman" , Appreciate the moto content, but diatribes about pro/con gun control are really off-topic. If you guys want to lambaste each other, do so directly, huh? Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:42 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - some non gun Moto content at the end Mine is. I haven't put the cover on the bike yet though, because I'm planning on riding it later this week. Another 80 miles and it's time for the 1000 mile post-break-in service. This is a good time of the year to get work done, as the service department at Battley's is not real busy. Seems most people have their bikes at home with the battery tenders hooked up for the winter. :^) Supposed to be up in the 40s later this week. Maybe some rain tomorrow though...might help wash the salt off of the roads, which would be a Good Thing. -- Mike B. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 11:57:39 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:53:27 -0500 To: Jason Picton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: motorcycle story - probably bogus - but funny nonetheless At 10:59 AM 12/8/03 -0500, Jason Picton wrote: > >http://cuagain.manilasites.com/stories/storyReader$287 ROTFLMAOAMTCLAMF!! Thanks! I needed that! :^) I wonder if my gear is squirrel-proof? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 12:00:07 2003 Subject: RE: motorcycle story - probably bogus - but funny nonetheless Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:59:58 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Jason Picton" , Didn't someone (Bartman? Horkster?) post last year about being run over by a squirrel? ;-) A hilarious story, I'll keep an eye out for his book! Robert -----Original Message----- From: Jason Picton [mailto:j_picton@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:59 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: motorcycle story - probably bogus - but funny nonetheless http://cuagain.manilasites.com/stories/storyReader$287 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 12:03:45 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 12:03:37 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, since I ride in an > older Nolan N-100 with the double release, and think that > under certain circumstances, it might be a desirable safety > feature. 8;) I saw someone with an older Nolan, a rider from Alaska, actually. Anyway, the old helmet had the double releases. He had drilled a small hole in each plastic tab, then run a cord through each hole and tied a knot in both ends. It allowed him to open both sides at once by pulling down on the cord. Kinda slick, I thought. Horkster -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 12:41:06 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 12:39:51 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dale Horstman CC: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" , Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face Dale Horstman wrote: > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, since I ride in an > > older Nolan N-100 with the double release, and think that > > under certain circumstances, it might be a desirable safety > > feature. 8;) > > I saw someone with an older Nolan, a rider from Alaska, > actually. Anyway, the old helmet had the double releases. > He had drilled a small hole in each plastic tab, then run a > cord through each hole and tied a knot in both ends. It allowed > him to open both sides at once by pulling down on the cord. > Kinda slick, I thought. > > Horkster > I must be doing something wrong. No matter how hard I try I can't get the chin bar of my Shoei RF-800 to budge! Maybe I'll try WD-40... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 12:47:21 2003 Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Dec 2003 12:43:41 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 12:39, William J. Huson wrote: > Dale Horstman wrote: > > > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > > > Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, since I ride in an > > > older Nolan N-100 with the double release, and think that > > > under certain circumstances, it might be a desirable safety > > > feature. 8;) > > > > I saw someone with an older Nolan, a rider from Alaska, > > actually. Anyway, the old helmet had the double releases. > > He had drilled a small hole in each plastic tab, then run a > > cord through each hole and tied a knot in both ends. It allowed > > him to open both sides at once by pulling down on the cord. > > Kinda slick, I thought. > > > > Horkster > > > > I must be doing something wrong. No matter how hard I try I can't get > the chin bar of my Shoei RF-800 to budge! Maybe I'll try WD-40... > Hey! I just noticed that my chin bar is _missing_! It must have fallen off somewhere back down the road. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 13:51:12 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: tablet computers wuz dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 13:55:43 -0500 Michael Joined with, "Ya know, Bill - with the advent of tablet computers (no hinged screen to flop around), this isn't all that far fetched. Hmmm... AKA Inspector Gadget" Bob Peloquin on SabMag & the ST List done did it. He has a Compaq tablet computer that fits in his tank (tanq?) bag map thingie. He has a teeny GPS receiver hooked up to it. I forget which software he uses. Last April, I watched him use his cell phone to dial up weather.com to check the weather twixt Cairo, W(BG)V and home (Taxachusetts). Pretty kewl. Carl (visiting) in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 14:02:46 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 14:01:33 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face Carl Schelin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-12-08 at 12:39, William J. Huson wrote: > > Dale Horstman wrote: > > > > > "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > > > > > > Doesn't seem like much of a problem to me, since I ride in an > > > > older Nolan N-100 with the double release, and think that > > > > under certain circumstances, it might be a desirable safety > > > > feature. 8;) > > > > > > I saw someone with an older Nolan, a rider from Alaska, > > > actually. Anyway, the old helmet had the double releases. > > > He had drilled a small hole in each plastic tab, then run a > > > cord through each hole and tied a knot in both ends. It allowed > > > him to open both sides at once by pulling down on the cord. > > > Kinda slick, I thought. > > > > > > Horkster > > > > > > > I must be doing something wrong. No matter how hard I try I can't get > > the chin bar of my Shoei RF-800 to budge! Maybe I'll try WD-40... > > > > Hey! I just noticed that my chin bar is _missing_! It must have fallen > off somewhere back down the road. > > > Bill > > > > Carl HA! You may have purcahsed one of the chin bar helmets MCN tested a ways back. The chin bar broke off while they were taking it outta the box! Needless to say, that model did not get a 5star rating. Caveat emptor! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 14:10:38 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 14:10:30 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: "William J. Huson" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Nolan Flip Face "William J. Huson" wrote: > I must be doing something wrong. No matter how hard I try I can't get > the chin bar of my Shoei RF-800 to budge! Maybe I'll try WD-40... Bill, Loosen the chinstrap first. Sincerely, Horkster :) -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 14:27:37 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:27:34 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: GPS Info website To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, garcia oliver This is the most informative site I've run across: http://joe.mehaffey.com/ Aaron (Streetpilot III, on Touratech mount. http://www.cycoactive.com/gps/gps_mounts.html) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 14:43:15 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:43:44 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: FWD: SportVue heads-up display unit At 10:16 AM -0500 11/21/03, Chris Norloff wrote: >Interesting! > >SportVueM-^Y lightweight helmet and visor-mounted heads-up display unit > >http://www.motionresearch.com/products.htm More info - dated 12/8 http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5116489.html?tag=nefd_top (available in spring - ... But Motion Research will be the first company to attempt a truly low-cost consumer application. The price of the motorcycle SportVue will range from $249 to $349. The bicycle version of Sportvue, which will be introduced sometime after the motorcycle system, will project speed, distance traveled and heart rate information, like current cyclometers, and range from $150 to $199, Dobson said. He said the company was also in discussions with helmet manufacturers to integrate the display systems into helmets. ...) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 15:24:32 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 12:24:16 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle, so I'm not going to > go into it myself in this forum, despite having really > strong feelings on the subject of gun control. I think the subject is on-topic, because there are many parallels to be drawn between the gun control and potential future catastrophes affecting motorcycles. Think of fully-automatic assault rifles and those addicted to them as being analogous to ultra-high-performance sportbikes and their owners who regularly perform in outrageous ways on public streets. Motorcyclists and their lobbies could learn a lot by studying the history of gun control and applying their influence in preventive efforts within the motorcycling community. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 15:36:21 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:36:03 -0500 From: Dale Horstman To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle, so I'm not going to > > go into it myself in this forum, despite having really > > strong feelings on the subject of gun control. > > I think the subject is on-topic, because there are many > parallels to be drawn between the gun control and potential > future catastrophes affecting motorcycles. > > Think of fully-automatic assault rifles and those addicted to > them as being analogous to ultra-high-performance sportbikes > and their owners who regularly perform in outrageous ways on > public streets. > > Motorcyclists and their lobbies could learn a lot by studying > the history of gun control and applying their influence in > preventive efforts within the motorcycling community. > > -- Larry I find it interesting that gun topics come up from time to time on *every* motorcycle list I've ever belonged to for any appreciable length of time. And while it's a hot topic and has more than a few people who always stridently object every time the dreaded G-word comes up, and also on the surface has little to do with motorcycling, I think Larry's post makes a lot of sense. There are people who think guns don't belong in the public's hands. There are also people who don't think motorcycles belong on public roads. Bikers and gunners could learn much from each other in our struggles to continue enjoying what they love. And for those of us who enjoy both, we get a chuckle whenever the topic comes up on motorcycle lists. :) Horkster, bike owner, bike rider, gun owner, gun shooter -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 15:41:35 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Kalashnakov - was: RE: Assault Rifle myths Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 15:41:30 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609f1212204dbc30433fa5d23f872aad9f4a2d4e88014a4647c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c >An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle... Kalasnakov WAS a tank mechanic - just think if he had turned his talents to designing motorcycles... This crappy snow might not have been a problem after all ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:10:23 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:09:42 -0500 To: , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Kalashnakov - was: RE: Assault Rifle myths At 03:41 PM 12/8/03 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >>An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle... > >Kalasnakov WAS a tank mechanic - just think if he had turned his talents to >designing motorcycles... > >This crappy snow might not have been a problem after all ;-) Hmmmm....a bike with treads...there's an idea! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:16:26 2003 Subject: RE: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:16:18 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Dale Horstman" , Cc: It's probably no coincidence, motorcycling and gun ownership both appeal to a self-selected fan base, people who consider themselves true individuals and perhaps a bit "on the wild side." So I'm sure that guns as a topic of discussion show up on lists devoted to motorcycling. However... It's a bit of a stretch to equate tools whose only purpose is to propel small projectiles at lethal rates of speed with vehicles, albeit two-wheeled, that can also attain lethal rates of speed. One tool has no non-lethal purpose, the other has a valid role to play as an alternative transport mode. Bikers and gunners learning from each other? Good gravy. I was raised around guns, used them frequently while living on a ranch as a child/yound adult, but I don't own any now and I'd view with suspicion anyone who claims a "need" or a "right" to own firearms, particularly in an urban environment. That being said, I don't feel the need to debate this on list, other than to point out that the gun thread is most emphatically off-topic. Robert -----Original Message----- From: Dale Horstman [mailto:horkster@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 3:36 PM To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation I find it interesting that gun topics come up from time to time on *every* motorcycle list I've ever belonged to for any appreciable length of time. And while it's a hot topic and has more than a few people who always stridently object every time the dreaded G-word comes up, and also on the surface has little to do with motorcycling, I think Larry's post makes a lot of sense. There are people who think guns don't belong in the public's hands. There are also people who don't think motorcycles belong on public roads. Bikers and gunners could learn much from each other in our struggles to continue enjoying what they love. And for those of us who enjoy both, we get a chuckle whenever the topic comes up on motorcycle lists. :) Horkster, bike owner, bike rider, gun owner, gun shooter -- Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark) Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX '98 Concours - BugSlayer Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '99 Concours - Grape Nehi CM #001 NRA IBA COG '82 GS850G - Neat old bike The Mason Dixon 20-20 Endurance Rally: The Games People Play Come join us in 2004: http://www.masondixon20-20.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:37:08 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:36:52 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: es87m@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Cool. I might have to get me one when they come out. I hate looking down at the speedo. :-) Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2003 2:43:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 10:16 AM -0500 11/21/03, Chris Norloff wrote: > >Interesting! > > > >SportVueM-^Y lightweight helmet and visor-mounted heads-up display unit > > > >http://www.motionresearch.com/products.htm > > More info - dated 12/8 > http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5116489.html?tag=nefd_top > (available in spring - > > ... > But Motion Research will be the first company to attempt a truly > low-cost consumer application. The price of the motorcycle SportVue > will range from $249 to $349. > > The bicycle version of Sportvue, which will be introduced sometime > after the motorcycle system, will project speed, distance traveled > and heart rate information, like current cyclometers, and range from > $150 to $199, Dobson said. He said the company was also in > discussions with helmet manufacturers to integrate the > display > systems into helmets. > ...) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:37:14 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:36:55 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: es87m@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Cool. I might have to get me one when they come out. I hate looking down at the speedo. :-) Scooter In a message dated 12/8/2003 2:43:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, es87m@XXXXXX writes: > > > At 10:16 AM -0500 11/21/03, Chris Norloff wrote: > >Interesting! > > > >SportVueM-^Y lightweight helmet and visor-mounted heads-up display unit > > > >http://www.motionresearch.com/products.htm > > More info - dated 12/8 > http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5116489.html?tag=nefd_top > (available in spring - > > ... > But Motion Research will be the first company to attempt a truly > low-cost consumer application. The price of the motorcycle SportVue > will range from $249 to $349. > > The bicycle version of Sportvue, which will be introduced sometime > after the motorcycle system, will project speed, distance traveled > and heart rate information, like current cyclometers, and range from > $150 to $199, Dobson said. He said the company was also in > discussions with helmet manufacturers to integrate the > display > systems into helmets. > ...) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:47:29 2003 From: Jason Picton To: "'Mike Bartman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Kalashnakov - was: RE: Assault Rifle myths Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 16:46:47 -0500 Actually, there is such a thing..... It's called a kettenkrad... http://www.kettenkrad.com/ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 4:10 PM To: mjordan812@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Kalashnakov - was: RE: Assault Rifle myths At 03:41 PM 12/8/03 -0500, Michael Jordan wrote: >>An AK47 is NOT, however, a motorcycle... > >Kalasnakov WAS a tank mechanic - just think if he had turned his talents to >designing motorcycles... > >This crappy snow might not have been a problem after all ;-) Hmmmm....a bike with treads...there's an idea! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 16:49:10 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Content-ID: <6883.1070920145.1@XXXXXX> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 16:49:05 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >... There are people who >think guns don't belong in the public's hands. There are >also people who don't think motorcycles belong on public >roads. Motorcycling, gun ownership, private planes, smoking, alcohol, drugs, homosexuality, taxes, speech, pedophilia, copyrights, affirmative action, pornography, WMD, bestiality, etc., etc. Virtually all personal behavior is susceptible to government regulation, and the appropriate level of government regulation is always arguable. Government regulation of an activity isn't enough to make discussion of that activity relevant on a motorcycling list. Let's not try to use a common thread of civil liberties to rationalize this off-topic chatter. The obvious truth is that a few of us talk guns on this list because a few of us like to talk guns, and we're not thinking about the other 300 listers for whom it isn't a topic of personal interest. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 17:18:21 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Janklow case goes to jury Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 17:16:57 -0500 Here's something on-topic. http://www.argusleader.com/janklowtrial/Mondayarticle1.shtml Judge denies mistrial, jury continues deliberating >From Staff Reports Argus Leader Updated: 3:20 p.m. FLANDREAU - A Moody County jury comprised of eight women and four men began deliberating the fate of Rep. Bill Janklow at 12:45 p.m. Monday. The Republican congressman is charged with second-degree manslaughter, reckless driving, failure to yield and speeding in the death of Hardwick, Minn., motorcyclist Randy Scott Aug. 16 at a rural Moody County intersection. An hour after the jury began deliberations, defense lawyer Ed Evans of Sioux Falls asked judge Rodney Steele to declare a mistrial. Evans said that during his closing arguments, prosecutor Roger Ellyson incorrectly stated that the defense didn't tell the state that it would be making a medical defense of the charges until two weeks before the trial began. In fact the defense made those known at the end of October, Evans insisted. Steele refused to declare a mistrial. In closing arguments Monday morning, prosecutor Roger Ellyson told jurors that this is "an easy case to decide. It's easy not because of who the defendant is, but because Randy Scott, a farmer and businessman from Hardwick, Minn., lost his life." Ellyson said it is undisputed that Janklow, 64, sped through the stop sign at the intersection of Moody County highways 13 and 14 south of Flandreau. He also said the prosecution provided testimony that the congressman had sped through the same intersection almost eight months earlier, nearly striking the Dana and Jennifer Walters family of Trent. As for the Janklow defense that he was suffering from hypoglycemia, or low blood sugar, at the time of the accident, Ellyson offered a number of reasons why he didn't believe that was a reasonable defense. The congressman told EMTs Tom Price and Mark Bonrud within 45 minutes of the crash that he had tested his blood-sugar levels earlier in the day "and he was fine," Ellyson said. "He also told EMT Tom Price that he had eaten earlier that day." He later told Dr. Tad Jacobs, a Flandreau doctor and county coroner, the same thing, Ellyson said. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 17:22:02 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bruce N wrote: > No, Larry, the subject is not on-topic and Harry, the list > owner, has said so. Please do not post further on the subject. I agree with the list owner that the discussion as it was oriented was not on-topic. However, I suggested a single aspect of gun control which could indeed be viewed as germane to the topic of motorcycling. Apparently you're not bright enough to understand what I said. Harry has yet to state whether or not he agrees. Until then, who appointed you chief list nazi? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 17:24:25 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 14:24:18 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: Dave Yates Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > By the same logic, non riders would logically want to ban > motorcycles... I've met several people who've had up-close and personal experience with lane-splitting 100mph+ sportbike riders on the beltway who have felt precisely that way. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 17:34:48 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:35:20 -0500 To: Jason Picton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Bikes with treads (was something about guns...;^) At 04:46 PM 12/8/03 -0500, Jason Picton wrote: >Actually, there is such a thing..... > >It's called a kettenkrad... >http://www.kettenkrad.com/ Weird. I wonder how much turning capability that front wheel has? Seems like differential braking of the treads would be a better way to do it, like on a tank. I wonder if they had something like that linked into the front wheel? I just don't see one little bike tire turning something like that the way it turns a normal bike... That's more of a "trike with treads" though. I was thinking more along the lines of a bike version of this: http://tiger.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/truck_tracks.jpg -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 18:47:14 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Bikes with treads (was something about guns...;^) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:47:05 -0500 > At 04:46 PM 12/8/03 -0500, Jason Picton wrote: > >Actually, there is such a thing..... > > > >It's called a kettenkrad... > >http://www.kettenkrad.com/ A (I assume) local guy has a working one. He typically shows up at Bob's BMW in Laurel on Bob's open house days and gives rides with the fees going to charity. I don't think that I'd go so far as to call it a motorcycle, though - front end notwithstanding Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 20:24:25 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 20:21:13 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Fwd: Janklow Convicted!!! >-- Rep. Bill Janklow of South Dakota is convicted of manslaughter for a >collision that killed a motorcyclist, the Associated Press reports. >Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com (AOL Keyword: CNN) for the latest news. > >>Bob Meyer, STOC # 1157 >>'92 ST1100, Candy Glory Red >>'02 ST1100 A, Candy Wineberry Red >>'02 919, Asphalt >>"Attack Life. It's going to kill you anyway." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 21:11:03 2003 Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2003 21:09:45 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Bob Meyer CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fwd: Janklow Convicted!!! Bob Meyer wrote: > >-- Rep. Bill Janklow of South Dakota is convicted of manslaughter for a > >collision that killed a motorcyclist, the Associated Press reports. > >Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com (AOL Keyword: CNN) for the latest news. Perhaps one of our leagl eagles can answer this -- considering the reports that state troopers often let Janklow slide on rather serious driving infractions, do you think the motorcyclist's estate could sue the law for derilection of duty? Personally, I think heads should roll on this one, and not just Janklow's. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 21:19:03 2003 Subject: RE: Janklow Convicted!!! Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:18:55 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Bob Meyer" , We'll see what happens during sentencing. He's facing _up to_ 10 years. To coincide with his resignation day in DC, I think it would be nice if one of the motorcycle organizations organized a protest/bike awareness day. Right in front of his office window, of course. Witold > >-- Rep. Bill Janklow of South Dakota is convicted of > manslaughter for a > >collision that killed a motorcyclist, the Associated Press reports. > >Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com (AOL Keyword: CNN) for > the latest news. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 21:21:34 2003 Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:21:26 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Fwd: Janklow Convicted!!! To: "William J. Huson" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX causation issues would prove fatal to such attempts, imo --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Bob Meyer wrote: > > > >-- Rep. Bill Janklow of South Dakota is convicted of > manslaughter for a > > >collision that killed a motorcyclist, the Associated > Press reports. > > >Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com (AOL Keyword: > CNN) for the latest news. > > Perhaps one of our leagl eagles can answer this -- > considering the reports that > state troopers often let Janklow slide on rather serious > driving infractions, do > you think the motorcyclist's estate could sue the law for > derilection of duty? > Personally, I think heads should roll on this one, and > not just Janklow's. > > Bill ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 21:31:53 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:31:03 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7904843baf7be967bf6fbd09069526d113350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > --- Dave Yates wrote: > > By the same logic, non riders would logically want to ban > > motorcycles... > > I've met several people who've had up-close and personal > experience with lane-splitting 100mph+ sportbike riders on > the beltway who have felt precisely that way. > > -- Larry [Dave] I've also met several people who've had up close and personal experience with open pipe harleys on the beltway who felt like banning bikes... None of the mentioned items - an assault rifle, a sport bike, or an open pipe harley are reflective of an entire demographic. Ditto their operators. Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 8 22:10:24 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles" , "CBR" Subject: Janklow resigns Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 22:10:06 -0500 http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=584&e=&u=/nm/20031209/pl_nm/ people_janklow_dc LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 07:31:47 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 04:31:44 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Wonder if he took a safety course??? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/08/osbourne.accident/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 08:24:39 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 05:24:31 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Assault Rifle myths - was: Re: dealership recommendation To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Bruce N wrote: > > No, Larry, the subject is not on-topic and Harry, the > list > > owner, has said so. Please do not post further on the > subject. > > I agree with the list owner that the discussion as it was > oriented was not on-topic. However, I suggested a single > aspect of gun control which could indeed be viewed as > germane > to the topic of motorcycling. Apparently you're not > bright > enough to understand what I said. > > Harry has yet to state whether or not he agrees. Until > then, > who appointed you chief list nazi? what? did i miss the dcc elections again? son of a.... -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 08:34:06 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Glenn Dysart , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Wonder if he took a safety course??? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:34:04 -0500 At least we can take comfort in the fact he probably didn't feel a thing. Rob On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 04:31:44 -0800 (PST), Glenn Dysart wrote > http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/08/osbourne.accident/index.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 09:09:30 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:09:24 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: DCC list elections - was something or other To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >> Harry has yet to state whether or not he agrees. Until >> then, who appointed you chief list nazi? > Gimer: >what? did i miss the dcc elections again? son of a.... [Dave] Relax Tom, pop a few more zoloft. Your position as the DCC lawyer is safe. Note that when we say you are the list lawyer, it is analogous to a 'court jester', so if you fail to entertain us daily, it's off with your head... ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 09:16:53 2003 Subject: Balmy commute... Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:16:08 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: Rode to Reston from Arlington, nice all the way until I hit a stretch of 55MPH+ on Rt. 7. Fingers are still warming up after that! The Noj helmet thingie worked great, was almost too warm in the "tent" it forms, but the glove liners in the Held gloves need serious help to keep the hands warm. I'm going to try the over-glove mitts next, see if that helps. Roads were clear, some sandy patches, no ice until I hit the parking lot, but even there it was starting to melt and wasn't too bad. I didn't see any other bikes on the road, and perhaps as a corollary effect, I was merged "into" a couple of times... Robert From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 09:28:00 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:27:53 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Relax Tom, pop a few more zoloft. Your position as > the DCC lawyer is safe. Wait a minute, the radio just announced that Tom has been endorsed by Al Gore, so I'd say his position is pretty precarious... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 09:39:37 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:39:33 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Larry posted an AP news flash: >Wait a minute, the radio just announced that Tom has been >endorsed by Al Gore, so I'd say his position is pretty >precarious... > >-- Larry [Dave] Don't worry Larry, I'm sure that for _this_ position, Tom will carry both the popular and electoral vote :-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 09:55:38 2003 Subject: Re: Balmy commute... From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 09:51:57 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 09:16, Verde, Robert wrote: > Rode to Reston from Arlington, nice all the way until I hit a stretch > of 55MPH+ on Rt. 7. Fingers are still warming up after that! The Noj > helmet thingie worked great, was almost too warm in the "tent" it forms, > but the glove liners in the Held gloves need serious help to keep the > hands warm. I'm going to try the over-glove mitts next, see if that > helps. Roads were clear, some sandy patches, no ice until I hit the > parking lot, but even there it was starting to melt and wasn't too bad. > Gerbing's (or Widder if you want). I did lots of things to keep my mitts warm a couple of years back including building wind blocks for the handlebars. They helped but warm hands are better than warm enough. Consider, you can either be distracted by keeping warm and be "merged into" or you can keep warm and pay attention. Even with the warm hands, I find myself paying strict attention to my surroundings to avoid an accident. > I didn't see any other bikes on the road, and perhaps as a corollary > effect, I was merged "into" a couple of times... > I saw one other bike on the road this morning. The same one as yesterday. This time I noticed that it was a Honda, blue with a windshield, small bags and he flipped rear turn signals to solid on when he hit 95 (I saw him merge from Occoquan onto HOV). The yellow Kawasaki (I looked) was in spot number 1 when I got here. I did see a DC cop on one of the copcycles. Lots of cops on the side streets up and down Independance and lots of state cops up and down HOV (three at the PW Pkwy -> HOV ramp, three at the Springfield flyover (with an SUV parked on top of the flyover; trying to avoid a ticket I suppose :-) and at least one cop at the Backlick -> HOV onramp) > Robert > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 10:28:54 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 10:20:52 -0500 To: Bob Meyer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fwd: Janklow Convicted!!! At 08:21 PM 12/8/03 -0500, Bob Meyer wrote: > >>-- Rep. Bill Janklow of South Dakota is convicted of manslaughter for a >>collision that killed a motorcyclist, the Associated Press reports. >>Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com (AOL Keyword: CNN) for the latest news. Wow. the system is working! Now we see what happens at sentencing... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 10:29:27 2003 Subject: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:30:21 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: A while ago I had posted a note from a client of mine that had been pulled over twice in the same week and had a court date for both incidents on the same day. Amid much joking involving KY, it was recommended that this poor lad get a continuance (Arlington General District Court). The poor lad's instinct was to go and get it over with but not understanding the procedures, prosecution, plea-bargaining with the prosecutor during court, the lad took the advice called and asked for a continuance. Well the court clerk continued one but not the other so the poor lad received a note last night saying license suspended as of tomorrow. Automatic conviction for one. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 10:49:07 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:49:06 -0500 How did he get an automatic conviction ? Must of been something prtty bad for an suspended license. Althought I think the state can suspend your licenses without a conviction simply because the driving is a priviledge thing. The point of getting the continuance was so that he could secure legal advice? Did he do that? When I was in traffic court a kid was there for speeding, no insurance, no registration, no inspection and possession of marijuana even he got a continuance to get a lawyer. This was in NY and possession of marijuana is just a citation under 7/8ounce. Rob On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:30:21 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > A while ago I had posted a note from a client of mine that had been > pulled over twice in the same week and had a court date for both > incidents on the same day. Amid much joking involving KY, it was > recommended that this poor lad get a continuance (Arlington General > District Court). The poor lad's instinct was to go and get it over with > but not understanding the procedures, prosecution, plea-bargaining with > the prosecutor during court, the lad took the advice called and asked > for a continuance. > > Well the court clerk continued one but not the other so the poor lad > received a note last night saying license suspended as of tomorrow. > Automatic conviction for one. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 10:50:54 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wonder if he took a safety course??? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:55:47 -0500 Wonder if he was riding like a complete bloody idiot?? From his injuries, he must have flipped it so that it landed on him. Takes talent. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F 96 300EX 84 TRX200 > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [SMTP:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 7:32 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Wonder if he took a safety course??? > > http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/08/osbourne.accident/index.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 11:02:01 2003 Subject: RE: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Rob Sharp" , Cc: Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and only the other was continued. The clerk did not continue both tickets...just one. When you get an automatic conviction in VA, you have a certain time to pay after which they suspend license. This was 51 in a 35 zone. Legal advice ..wants 1200 to show up in court and try to bargain one ticket dismissed. Legal advice was it would probably be best to do this yourself as having a lawyer present could even adversely affect outcome. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:49 AM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Listening to Others How did he get an automatic conviction ? Must of been something prtty bad for an suspended license. Althought I think the state can suspend your licenses without a conviction simply because the driving is a priviledge thing. The point of getting the continuance was so that he could secure legal advice? Did he do that? When I was in traffic court a kid was there for speeding, no insurance, no registration, no inspection and possession of marijuana even he got a continuance to get a lawyer. This was in NY and possession of marijuana is just a citation under 7/8ounce. Rob On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 10:30:21 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > A while ago I had posted a note from a client of mine that had been > pulled over twice in the same week and had a court date for both > incidents on the same day. Amid much joking involving KY, it was > recommended that this poor lad get a continuance (Arlington General > District Court). The poor lad's instinct was to go and get it over > with but not understanding the procedures, prosecution, > plea-bargaining with the prosecutor during court, the lad took the > advice called and asked for a continuance. > > Well the court clerk continued one but not the other so the poor lad > received a note last night saying license suspended as of tomorrow. > Automatic conviction for one. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 11:17:37 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 11:18:23 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , "Rob Sharp" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Listening to Others Cc: At 11:02 AM 12/9/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and only the >other was continued. Did he fail to appear on purpose, or was there a miscommunication with the clerk where he thought both had been continued? If you don't show up for a summons, I hear conviction is pretty much automatic every time. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 11:19:49 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , Cc: Subject: RE: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:19:49 -0500 On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and only the > other was continued. The clerk did not continue both tickets...just one. > When you get an automatic conviction in VA, you have a certain time > to pay after which they suspend license. This was 51 in a 35 zone. > > Legal advice ..wants 1200 to show up in court and try to bargain one > ticket dismissed. Legal advice was it would probably be best to do this > yourself as having a lawyer present could even adversely affect outcome. Yeah but think of all the money you lose because you can't drive to work ect. I know 1200's is a lot but not being able to drive will cost you a lot more. If he just showed up would he have gotten it suspended you think or just a nice fine? Man I can't think of all the times I got 51 in a 35 :-\ Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 11:41:25 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: scooterfzr@XXXXXX Subject: Photos from Scooter - 1922 Cross Country Trip and more... Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 08:41:16 -0800 (PST)

From: scooterfzr@XXXXXX

To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Hey gang,

I finally got around to posting my Uncle's Grandfathers pictures from his 1922 Cross Country trip via Indian motorcycle. I have the journal that goes with it but, this site only accepts pictures. I know one of the list members said they could put it up onthe website for me but, I can't remember who. Volunteers? Anyway, if you simply can't wait to read it, I have it in a small WordPerfect file that I can e-mail to you.

Enjoy,
Scooter
Click on a photo below to view the entire photo album!
1922 Cross Country Trip

Do you have the FREE Webshots Desktop? Add these photos to your screensaver & wallpaper! If you don't have it yet, you can download the FREE Webshots Desktop here!


From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 12:31:07 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: GPS, Call to action, fahr-arms Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:35:34 -0500 Cheap Garmain Cables: http://pfranc.com/ Local boy makes good . . . cables: (Ed is/was an Amiga guru) > Call to Action: Larry Grodsky in the January "Rider" points out that motorcyclists have both a big stake in traffic laws and over motorized vehicle design: "We've got the MSF, the AMA, and the MRF . . . and 14 governors who ride." Had we not clutched bikes like the 350 Honda to our bosom, would Japan Inc. have ever shaken the stigma of shoddy Oriental workmanship and risen to the ascendancy in the automotive world? Doubtful. And if not, would Americans today drive the same early '80's junk -one rung higher than Soviet-made Ladas -- that nearly wiped General Motors and Chrysler off the manufacturing map? We have power and influence beyond our small numbers." "If you can't stop your friends form driving cages, at least share these fundamentals with them. " Keep right unless passing ^%$# Left lane bandits Don't tail gate Let us merge, let us pass. Use the gas, not the brake (accordion) Turnsignals (MD and ME are the only two States that do not require signaling to change lanes) Stay out of bind spots . . . Motoflow. Spread the word." The Maryland Assembly will be meeting in January. Now is the time to bug our representatives to start fixing some of Maryland's archaic laws: Here's my wish list Require turnsignals when changing lanes. (duh) No left lane bandits on interstates. (Metro area reps were opposed to this in the past even though it makes merging more dangerous) Permit flashing lights to request a pass (it's illegal to flash your headlights within 300? Feet of the vehicle ahead of you. Auugh!) Permit head phones and ear plugs. (Fer ged's sake, deaf folks, cell phone yakkers, and "Bazooka Tubes" are permitted on the road.) Have the MVA do a better job of educating drivers (Head lights with wipers is still a mystery to many) Review speed limits (65 and way higher are normal on 495 & especially 270 south of Germantown) Not sure who are your representatives? Got to > fill out the spaces, click, confirm, and start writing. We in the choir have read your whinings; "Tell it to tha Mar-yland Assembly". VA, PA & W(BG)V readers Google your own legislators. >The original 750 four used an oil tank as do at least some of their four cycle dirt bikes. Mike Baited:. "Ok, thanks. Did the 700 Saber have one and I just never noticed it, or was that different? " [CC]: No, all oil is in the engine; some coolant goes through part of the frame. "It was a Honda 4 cylinder, but I don't think it was the same design as the CB750 engine. Not that I'm any sort of expert on the subject (obviously :^)." [CC]: The first Sabres (82-85; 750, 700, & 1100 cc) had the first generation V-4s. Fahr-arms: Harry Motioned: >Um...the AK47 is... Someone mentioned gun, we all got a chubbie, we humped the leg of the list for a bit, now we're done, let's move on. This is a motorcycling list, there are no acceptable off-topic posts (except this one :) -harry Aw Harry, I'm on digest just this leetle wun?: Bill Heh-ed, "Reminds me of a day when I wuz in college and a local lad sez "Let's go squirrel huntin'" He had a pump shotgun with the block removed, held 6 shells. So goober boy spots a squirrel and opens up - *blam blam blam blam blam blam* Yep, emptied his gun. Unarmed and just along for giggles, I ducked the shower of blown off tree limbs. He wuz a good shot and we found the squirrel, not enough left to make a decent sandwich. No prob for him, he wuz just out for the kill..." Old NM Indian saying: "One shot, got him; two shots, maybe; three shots missed." Carl in Bethesda (Murdered many animals with a bolt action .22.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 13:06:22 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:06:14 EST Subject: Things you see when the VCR is off To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Did anyone else see the live news report from a busted water main about 10:50 this morning? The one that showed a DC motorcycle cop ride (very slowly) 10ft. or so behind the newsman and then drop his entire front wheel into a trench cut into the road? In the background for the rest of the report the cop and several workmen were trying to get the bike out of the hole on live television. Now THAT is entertainment! I just wish I had had a tape in the VCR. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 13:48:06 2003 Subject: Bike detailing, minor touch-ups Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 13:49:00 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: If you want to keep your bike in tip-top shape, is there a place that cleans bikes thoroughly, repairs rock chips, that type of thing? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:13:05 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:12:56 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > >> Harry has yet to state whether or not he agrees. Until > >> then, who appointed you chief list nazi? > > > Gimer: > >what? did i miss the dcc elections again? son of a.... > > [Dave] Relax Tom, pop a few more zoloft. , > Your position as the DCC lawyer is safe. Note that when > we say you are the list lawyer, it is analogous to > a 'court jester', so if you fail to entertain us daily, > it's off with your head... fair enough -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:16:15 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'PenguinBiker@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Things you see when the VCR is off Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:15:56 -0500 LOL dang I missed it. -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 1:06 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Things you see when the VCR is off Did anyone else see the live news report from a busted water main about 10:50 this morning? The one that showed a DC motorcycle cop ride (very slowly) 10ft. or so behind the newsman and then drop his entire front wheel into a trench cut into the road? In the background for the rest of the report the cop and several workmen were trying to get the bike out of the hole on live television. Now THAT is entertainment! I just wish I had had a tape in the VCR. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:22:03 2003 Subject: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 14:18:25 -0500 *^&*()%* I just spoke to the service guys. No one is in that can help right now. They have ordered a "Check Valve Assembly" which seems to be part of the fuel system instead of the "Security & Turn Signal Module" like they told me. Chris says he'll find out what's up and if I call back tomorrow, he'll give me an update. "How nice." Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:25:16 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Things you see when the VCR is off Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:25:09 -0500 if you go to www.nbc4.com, select the water main article, it has a slide show you can select. The last slide shows the cop and a city worker frantically trying to get the bike out of the hole while the reporter in the foreground is reporting on the break. It's a hoot. -aki > > From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" > Date: 2003/12/09 Tue PM 02:15:56 EST > To: "'PenguinBiker@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Things you see when the VCR is off > > LOL dang I missed it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 1:06 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Things you see when the VCR is off > > > Did anyone else see the live news report from a busted water main about > 10:50 > this morning? The one that showed a DC motorcycle cop ride (very slowly) > 10ft. or so behind the newsman and then drop his entire front wheel into a > trench > cut into the road? > In the background for the rest of the report the cop and several workmen > were > trying to get the bike out of the hole on live television. > Now THAT is entertainment! > I just wish I had had a tape in the VCR. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:30:01 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:29:58 -0500 I guess that makes Dave the DCC bouncer since he has experience working at RFK stadium. Rob On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 09:09:24 -0500, Dave Yates wrote > >> Harry has yet to state whether or not he agrees. Until > >> then, who appointed you chief list nazi? > > > Gimer: > >what? did i miss the dcc elections again? son of a.... > > [Dave] Relax Tom, pop a few more zoloft. Your position as > the DCC lawyer is safe. Note that when we say you are the > list lawyer, it is analogous to a 'court jester', so if you > fail to entertain us daily, it's off with your head... > > ;-) > Dave Yates -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:32:16 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Harley Status Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:32:17 -0500 It's the middle of the freaking winter, how busy could they be!?! Rob On 09 Dec 2003 14:18:25 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > *^&*()%* > > I just spoke to the service guys. No one is in that can help right now. > They have ordered a "Check Valve Assembly" which seems to be part of > the fuel system instead of the "Security & Turn Signal Module" like they > told me. > > Chris says he'll find out what's up and if I call back tomorrow, > he'll give me an update. > > "How nice." > > Carl -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:32:43 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:31:26 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Listening to Others Rob Sharp wrote: > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and only the > > other was continued. The clerk did not continue both tickets...just one. > > When you get an automatic conviction in VA, you have a certain time > > to pay after which they suspend license. This was 51 in a 35 zone. > > > > Legal advice ..wants 1200 to show up in court and try to bargain one > > ticket dismissed. Legal advice was it would probably be best to do this > > yourself as having a lawyer present could even adversely affect outcome. > > Yeah but think of all the money you lose because you can't drive to work ect. > I know 1200's is a lot but not being able to drive will cost you a lot more. > If he just showed up would he have gotten it suspended you think or just a > nice fine? > > Man I can't think of all the times I got 51 in a 35 :-\ > > Rob Yes indeed. Get speeding tickee, pay fine -> drive. There must be more to this story than we know. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:35:28 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "William J. Huson" Cc: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:35:28 -0500 After re-reading it did this "person" get their license suspended because the didn't show up for court and didn't pay the fine. Or did they get their licnese suspended because of the ticket. Rob On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:31:26 -0500, William J. Huson wrote > Rob Sharp wrote: > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > > Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and only the > > > other was continued. The clerk did not continue both tickets...just one. > > > When you get an automatic conviction in VA, you have a certain time > > > to pay after which they suspend license. This was 51 in a 35 zone. > > > > > > Legal advice ..wants 1200 to show up in court and try to bargain one > > > ticket dismissed. Legal advice was it would probably be best to do this > > > yourself as having a lawyer present could even adversely affect outcome. > > > > Yeah but think of all the money you lose because you can't drive to work ect. > > I know 1200's is a lot but not being able to drive will cost you a lot more. > > If he just showed up would he have gotten it suspended you think or just a > > nice fine? > > > > Man I can't think of all the times I got 51 in a 35 :-\ > > > > Rob > > Yes indeed. Get speeding tickee, pay fine -> drive. There must be > more to this story than we know. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:37:11 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'adamme1@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: I think I've heard it all. Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:36:34 -0500 Just had a discussion with a Non riding coworker about Motorcyclists in the 70's wearing the wooden clogs. Say it isn't so. I guess it goes along with the flip flops and t-shirts. She was talking as if this was the norm. Any comments from the peanut gallery. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:37:43 2003 Subject: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 14:34:04 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 14:32, Rob Sharp wrote: > It's the middle of the freaking winter, how busy could they be!?! > The question I'm asking is the one that was asked here. "Why can't you get a part in any faster than three weeks? There are several other dealers in the area, can't you get it from someone else? What's wrong with FedEx?" Hell, I'll pay the FedEx fee to get the bike back faster. > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:51:16 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , "'adamme1@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I think I've heard it all. Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:51:15 -0500 Wouldn't know I was at the oldest 1 year old. Man you guys are old :-p Rob On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:36:34 -0500 , Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote > Just had a discussion with a Non riding coworker about Motorcyclists > in the 70's wearing the wooden clogs. Say it isn't so. I guess it > goes along with the flip flops and t-shirts. She was talking as if > this was the norm. Any comments from the peanut gallery. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 14:55:24 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:55:17 -0500 I *do* know that they have access to each others inventory. At least Patriot does. When I needed a part just before a trip, they did a search and found the part stocked at Whitts. -aki > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2003/12/09 Tue PM 02:34:04 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Harley Status > > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 14:32, Rob Sharp wrote: > > It's the middle of the freaking winter, how busy could they be!?! > > > > The question I'm asking is the one that was asked here. "Why can't you > get a part in any faster than three weeks? There are several other > dealers in the area, can't you get it from someone else? What's wrong > with FedEx?" Hell, I'll pay the FedEx fee to get the bike back faster. > > > Rob > > > > Carl > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:01:21 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:01:18 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Sanjour Subject: Re: RE: Things you see when the VCR is off To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX www.nbc4.com has a clip of the broadcast. At the end of the clip, after they get the bike out of hole, the cop and the workers move some plywood over the hole. Just click on the "NBC4 FeedRoom" link. It's hilarious. Joe --- adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > if you go to www.nbc4.com, select the water main > article, > it has a slide show you can select. The last slide > shows > the cop and a city worker frantically trying to get > the > bike out of the hole while the reporter in the > foreground > is reporting on the break. It's a hoot. > > -aki > > > > > > From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" > > > Date: 2003/12/09 Tue PM 02:15:56 EST > > To: "'PenguinBiker@XXXXXX'" > , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: Things you see when the VCR is off > > > > LOL dang I missed it. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 1:06 PM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Things you see when the VCR is off > > > > > > Did anyone else see the live news report from a > busted water main about > > 10:50 > > this morning? The one that showed a DC motorcycle > cop ride (very slowly) > > 10ft. or so behind the newsman and then drop his > entire front wheel into a > > trench > > cut into the road? > > In the background for the rest of the report the > cop and several workmen > > were > > trying to get the bike out of the hole on live > television. > > Now THAT is entertainment! > > I just wish I had had a tape in the VCR. > > > > > > John. > > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:04:04 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 15:00:26 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 14:55, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > I *do* know that they have access to each others > inventory. At least Patriot does. When I needed a > part just before a trip, they did a search and found > the part stocked at Whitts. > Yea but am I paying a penalty for having an extended warrenty? They can only get it from Harley if it's extended but can get it from anyone if I'm paying for it. > -aki > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:08:34 2003 Subject: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 15:04:56 -0500 (Rob; you're channelling dc-cycles-request in your messages.) On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 14:49, Rob Sharp wrote: > It just so happens my father is a parts dept. manager for two GM dealers and a > ford dealer. > > First, he would call to the other stores that he owns and then the other > stores in the area. If that failed they have a computer system that can > locate parts all over the area. If that fails they can order it from the > factory. > > When my S10 was busted they got a fuel pump overnighted on warrenty from the > factory in a day. Took like 3 days to make the repair. To top this off I was > in toronto canada and the computer systems and part numbers are all a little > off from the US system. > > Sounds like a LOAD of crap. I could get any part for a HONDA in three weeks > EASILY and I am just some sucker. The dealer should be able to call up the > warehouse and get it lickety split. The problem with all of this is in the network. When I asked if East Coast could get me a Harley from one of the other dealers in the area they said no. They were independant dealers and didn't have the cross-peering that auto dealers had. I had to go to Whitts for the first one and Patriot for the second one. I just figure they could at least buy a part from one of the other dealers. > > Rob Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:10:25 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:09:01 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" CC: "'adamme1@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I think I've heard it all. "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > Just had a discussion with a Non riding coworker about Motorcyclists in the > 70's wearing the wooden clogs. Say it isn't so. I guess it goes along with > the flip flops and t-shirts. She was talking as if this was the norm. Any > comments from the peanut gallery. > Yep, clogs and flip-flops (sandals) were not an uncommon sight bakc in those years. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:11:47 2003 Subject: RE: Listening to Others Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:12:42 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Rob Sharp" , "William J. Huson" Cc: , For not showing up in court because they were under the impression the continuance had been granted for both tickets being tried on the same day... Not just the one. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 2:35 PM To: William J. Huson Cc: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Listening to Others After re-reading it did this "person" get their license suspended because the didn't show up for court and didn't pay the fine. Or did they get their licnese suspended because of the ticket. Rob On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:31:26 -0500, William J. Huson wrote > Rob Sharp wrote: > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 11:02:54 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > > Convicted in absentia because one ticket was sent to trial and > > > only the other was continued. The clerk did not continue both tickets...just one. > > > When you get an automatic conviction in VA, you have a certain > > > time to pay after which they suspend license. This was 51 in a 35 zone. > > > > > > Legal advice ..wants 1200 to show up in court and try to bargain > > > one ticket dismissed. Legal advice was it would probably be best > > > to do this yourself as having a lawyer present could even adversely affect outcome. > > > > Yeah but think of all the money you lose because you can't drive to work ect. > > I know 1200's is a lot but not being able to drive will cost you a lot more. > > If he just showed up would he have gotten it suspended you think > > or just a nice fine? > > > > Man I can't think of all the times I got 51 in a 35 :-\ > > > > Rob > > Yes indeed. Get speeding tickee, pay fine -> drive. There must be > more to this story than we know. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:15:04 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:52 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , "'adamme1@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: I think I've heard it all. Well, some of us old. I had my first bike in `71, also had a house mortgage, wife, and two kids. On my 7th (or is it 8th?) bike now, kids are gone, piece of the house mortgage still here, and the wife is still here, which is purely amazing considering she has to put up with me :-) Rob Sharp wrote: > Wouldn't know I was at the oldest 1 year old. Man you guys are old :-p > > Rob > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:36:34 -0500 , Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote > > Just had a discussion with a Non riding coworker about Motorcyclists > > in the 70's wearing the wooden clogs. Say it isn't so. I guess it > > goes along with the flip flops and t-shirts. She was talking as if > > this was the norm. Any comments from the peanut gallery. > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:15:50 2003 From: To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:15:43 -0500 If it's under warranty, you don't have to go to a specific dealer. As far as where they get the parts, that's up to them. I would think they could order it from another dealer with no problem. -aki > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2003/12/09 Tue PM 03:00:26 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status > > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 14:55, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > I *do* know that they have access to each others > > inventory. At least Patriot does. When I needed a > > part just before a trip, they did a search and found > > the part stocked at Whitts. > > > > Yea but am I paying a penalty for having an extended warrenty? They can > only get it from Harley if it's extended but can get it from anyone if > I'm paying for it. > > > -aki > > > > Carl > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:19:29 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 12:19:22 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: Rob Sharp , Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > I guess that makes Dave the DCC bouncer since he has > experience working at RFK stadium. Cool. This is getting to be like DNRC titles... -- Larry (Minister of Miscellaneous Misanthropic Minesterial Ministrations and Minestrone) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:30:41 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 15:27:03 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 15:15, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > If it's under warranty, you don't have to go to a > specific dealer. That I knew. I'm going to East Coast because I've hung around the place for, jeeze 15 years and they're the closest. > As far as where they get the parts, > that's up to them. I would think they could order it > from another dealer with no problem. And that's what I don't know. If they have to pay regular price for the part from another dealer there's no incentive. If I was the dealer, I'd take Harley prices over paying full price. At least until the customer complained :-/ > > -aki > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 15:31:44 2003 Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 15:28:06 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 15:19, pltrgyst@XXXXXX wrote: > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > I guess that makes Dave the DCC bouncer since he has > > experience working at RFK stadium. > > Cool. This is getting to be like DNRC titles... > > -- Larry (Minister of Miscellaneous Misanthropic Minesterial > Ministrations and Minestrone) > Welcome brother. Carl (Prime Minister of Obfuscation) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:04:28 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:04:24 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >I guess that makes Dave the DCC bouncer since he has >experience working at RFK stadium. [Dave] And the Crap center, & Pat Center... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:13:02 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:11:30 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, rob@XXXXXX, Dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other X-AOL-IP: 65.86.98.162 Cool. Another DNRC member. Soon they will all be our servants. ;-) Scooter (Ruler of All, Master of Nothing) In a message dated 12/9/2003 3:19:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes: > > > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > I guess that makes Dave the DCC bouncer since he has > > experience working at RFK stadium. > > Cool. This is getting to be like DNRC titles... > > -- Larry (Minister of Miscellaneous Misanthropic Minesterial > Ministrations and Minestrone) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:13:40 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:13:37 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: DCC list elections - was something or other To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Larry pointed out: >Cool. This is getting to be like DNRC titles... > >-- Larry (Minister of Miscellaneous Misanthropic Minesterial >Ministrations and Minestrone) [Dave] I've used the 'self proclaimed' Voodoo High Priest title to gain extra holidays off work. Hey, if it's good enough for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to call themselves Reverend, it's good enough for me too. And strangely, all my extra religious holidays fall on random, sunny, warm days. Must be Divine Providence. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:27:02 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Earthquake in Va today? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:26:56 -0500 Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting *earthquakes*???? Just off the wire: http://treets.nbc4.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=28739007&t=1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:30:20 2003 From: "Laurie Holland" To: Subject: RE: Earthquake in Va today? Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:30:17 -0500 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Quakes/uscdbf.htm -----Original Message----- From: adamme1@XXXXXX [mailto:adamme1@XXXXXX] Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting *earthquakes*???? Just off the wire: http://treets.nbc4.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=28739007&t=1 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:03 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:23:55 -0500 To: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: I think I've heard it all. At 02:36 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) wrote: >Just had a discussion with a Non riding coworker about Motorcyclists in the >70's wearing the wooden clogs. Say it isn't so. I guess it goes along with >the flip flops and t-shirts. She was talking as if this was the norm. Any >comments from the peanut gallery. I was around in the 70s, though I wasn't focused on bikes I did have a friend that rode, and I was interested in them somewhat. I don't remember seeing a single incidence of anyone riding in wooden clogs. Sneakers and cowboy boots, yes. Leather shoes and bike boots, yes. No clogs though. Probably happened somewhere, but in eastern Virginia I'd say it was very, very rare, at best. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:05 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:24:18 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: I think I've heard it all. At 02:51 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Wouldn't know I was at the oldest 1 year old. Man you guys are old :-p If you are very careful, and a little lucky, maybe you can be old someday too. Though "experienced" is the way Mercedes-Benz likes to put it... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:06 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:16:34 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Status At 02:18 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >*^&*()%* > >I just spoke to the service guys. No one is in that can help right now. >They have ordered a "Check Valve Assembly" which seems to be part of the >fuel system instead of the "Security & Turn Signal Module" like they >told me. These guys are sounding worse all the time. They've got a communication problem at the very least. >Chris says he'll find out what's up and if I call back tomorrow, he'll >give me an update. > >"How nice." Not as nice as "I'll call you as soon as I know what's going on...where can I reach you?" -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:08 2003 Subject: Re: Earthquake in Va today? From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 16:27:30 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 16:26, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting > *earthquakes*???? > Hmm, that's about the right time. I felt a nice shaking sound at around 4pm. I thought it was a car going up the parking ramp but it didn't feel right. Rather than centered above and to the left of where I'm sitting, I felt it all around. > > Just off the wire: > > http://treets.nbc4.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=28739007&t=1 > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:19 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:29:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Status At 03:04 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >The problem with all of this is in the network. When I asked if East >Coast could get me a Harley from one of the other dealers in the area >they said no. They were independant dealers and didn't have the >cross-peering that auto dealers had. I had to go to Whitts for the first >one and Patriot for the second one. Bikes and parts are different. Each dealer is an independent business, but they get their bikes assigned by H-D. If they transfer one, they don't get a replacement, and it's unlikely that the other dealer is going to pay them retail to get it. Since H-D's tend to sell out before year-end, they will be able to sell everything they can get hold of. That means that trading bikes like that is a money loser. Parts, on the other hand, they can have all of that they can sell. Accessories too. >I just figure they could at least buy a part from one of the other >dealers. Yeah, and there's no reason why it should take 3 weeks to get it from the factory either...unless their ordering system is seriously brain-damaged. Have you called H-D directly to ask about this? Maybe the factory is way behind the curve...but I doubt it. If not, they'll want to know that there's a dealer out there that's pissing off loyal customers. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:31:25 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:31:15 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Earthquake in Va today? On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:26:56 -0500 > From: adamme1@XXXXXX > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Earthquake in Va today? > > Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting > *earthquakes*???? > > > Just off the wire: > > http://treets.nbc4.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=28739007&t=1 > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/recenteqsUS/Quakes/uscdbf.htm -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 16:33:26 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:34:16 -0500 To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Earthquake in Va today? At 04:26 PM 12/9/03 -0500, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: >Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting >*earthquakes*???? > >Just off the wire: > >http://treets.nbc4.com/svc/lnk.cfm?l=28739007&t=1 Are they sure it was an earthquake? Might it not have been someone experiencing a backfire with particularly loud pipes? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 17:13:05 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Earthquake in Va today? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been waiting for the right time... Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions. Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical?" Dr. Raymond Stantz: We he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the sky. Rivers and seas boiling! Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave! Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria! Ahem, thank you. -- Sean Wash, DC '93 Seca II --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 16:26, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > Ok, it's December, it's Virginia and we getting > > *earthquakes*???? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 17:47:54 2003 Subject: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 17:44:14 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 16:16, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:18 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >*^&*()%* > > > >I just spoke to the service guys. No one is in that can help right now. > >They have ordered a "Check Valve Assembly" which seems to be part of the > >fuel system instead of the "Security & Turn Signal Module" like they > >told me. > > These guys are sounding worse all the time. They've got a communication > problem at the very least. > Yea, I'm probably going to take it to Whitts next time. I am bound and determined to use up the warrenty before the end of the contract :-) > >Chris says he'll find out what's up and if I call back tomorrow, he'll > >give me an update. > > > >"How nice." > > Not as nice as "I'll call you as soon as I know what's going on...where can > I reach you?" > Actually that's an inside joke. The three southern belles are sitting around a tea table on the veranda discussing the virtues of their husbands. 1st Southern Belle: "My husband takes me with him to darkest Africa on hunting expeditions. It's all so delicious." 3rd Southern Belle fanning herself: "How nice." 2nd Southern Belle: "Well my husband takes me with him to Richmond and we have the largest parties with the Governer and his wife." 3rd Southern Belle fanning herself: "How nice." 1st and 2nd Southern Belles: "What does your husband do for you?" 3rd Southern Belle fanning herself: "My husband sent me to charm school where they taught me to be a demure and polite hostess and to say 'How nice' instead of 'F*ck you'." Our customer likes to tell it to us when he thinks we're feeding him a line. > -- Mike B. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:09:53 2003 Subject: Woo Hoo From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 18:06:15 -0500 http://www.ebay.com Search on: 2446478257 Almost there :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:20:43 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: gun control! Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:20:01 -0500 Just seeing if list was dead.... --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:28:16 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:28:08 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: gun control! To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jon Strang wrote: > Just seeing if list was dead.... Ooh! Oooh! Ooooohhh! Off-topic! Off-topic! Wasted bandwidth! Reduced GNP! Fractured Medicare! Get 'im! Get'im! Get 'im! -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:35:34 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 18:48:57 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status On 9 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > As far as where they get the parts, > > that's up to them. I would think they could order it > > from another dealer with no problem. > > And that's what I don't know. If they have to pay regular price for the > part from another dealer there's no incentive. If I was the dealer, I'd > take Harley prices over paying full price. At least until the customer > complained :-/ I know that replacement parts for Harleys are in high demand (ha, these jokes just write themselves sometimes), but 3 weeks is excessive. I'd be on the phone to the owner of the dealer and Harley's customer service demanding the parts be overnighted from where ever they may be, at their expense. Have you called around to other dealers to see if the parts are available locally? -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:39:50 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:37:49 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Harley Status At 05:44 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >Yea, I'm probably going to take it to Whitts next time. I am bound and >determined to use up the warrenty before the end of the contract :-) Have you checked the service manual for this latest "problem" they are talking about? I'm just wondering if it could be related to the work they did on the fuel pump. LIke if maybe some gunk or debris got into the fuel flow path as a result of them opening up the tank and inserting a new fuel pump assembly, and that's now lodged in the valve thingy they are talking about replacing now. Don't know how likely that is, but a look in the service manual might shed some light on the situation. Maybe it's restricting fuel flow, or keeping it too high or something that is upsetting the engine computer and/or screwing with gas getting into the injector/carb? >Actually that's an inside joke. Thanks for the explanation, and the joke! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:45:54 2003 Subject: Re: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 18:42:16 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 18:48, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On 9 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > As far as where they get the parts, > > > that's up to them. I would think they could order it > > > from another dealer with no problem. > > > > And that's what I don't know. If they have to pay regular price for the > > part from another dealer there's no incentive. If I was the dealer, I'd > > take Harley prices over paying full price. At least until the customer > > complained :-/ > > I know that replacement parts for Harleys are in high demand (ha, these > jokes just write themselves sometimes), but 3 weeks is excessive. I'd be > on the phone to the owner of the dealer and Harley's customer service > demanding the parts be overnighted from where ever they may be, at their > expense. > > Have you called around to other dealers to see if the parts are available > locally? > Well originally they said it was the security & turn signal module. It wasn't until I called last time that I found that wasn't what they ordered. Now it's a part of the fuel system (again). Maybe they fixed the security module and during the final Q/A they found another problem they're fixing. It'd be nice if they _talked_to_me_about_it_ I always have to call them. And the notes they keep are laughable. The guy who answers the phone can only read the notes in the service logs. > -- Wayne > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 18:46:58 2003 Subject: Re: Harley Status From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Dec 2003 18:43:20 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 18:37, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 05:44 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Yea, I'm probably going to take it to Whitts next time. I am bound and > >determined to use up the warrenty before the end of the contract :-) > > Have you checked the service manual for this latest "problem" they are > talking about? I'm just wondering if it could be related to the work they > did on the fuel pump. LIke if maybe some gunk or debris got into the fuel > flow path as a result of them opening up the tank and inserting a new fuel > pump assembly, and that's now lodged in the valve thingy they are talking > about replacing now. Don't know how likely that is, but a look in the > service manual might shed some light on the situation. Maybe it's > restricting fuel flow, or keeping it too high or something that is > upsetting the engine computer and/or screwing with gas getting into the > injector/carb? > Not yet. I just confirmed what they were ordering so I'll check the book when I get home. > >Actually that's an inside joke. > > Thanks for the explanation, and the joke! :^) > No problem. We need a joke once in a while :-) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 19:11:59 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:07:42 -0500 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX rhetorically expostulated -- Cool. I might have to get me one when they come out. I hate looking down at the speedo. :-) --------- I've also found that instruments away from line of sight contribute to attention problems. My first bike was tank-instrumented and I'm still convinced this played a major part in my two lospeed newbie road-surface getoffs ("not my fault", right). Have ruled out such arrangement since: The further front and up the better. And re: SportVue. Interesting, though possibly not revolutionary. Years ago (late '80's?) there were on the market postage-stamp PC monitor devices fittable to glasses. I'd bet that concept (or a monitor projection akin to autos) is currently available, meaning a whole range of PC (mapping?), not just GPS, info available close to line-of-sight. MC-specific -- don't know. For those so-tweaked, probably worth some digging. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > IC, said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 19:14:38 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:14:38 -0500 Is that for the GSXR? Rob On 09 Dec 2003 18:06:15 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > http://www.ebay.com > > Search on: 2446478257 > > Almost there :-) > > Carl -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 20:26:30 2003 Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:26 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Woo Hoo To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Nope, for the chopper http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper Carl --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Is that for the GSXR? > > Rob > On 09 Dec 2003 18:06:15 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > > http://www.ebay.com > > > > Search on: 2446478257 > > > > Almost there :-) > > > > Carl > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 21:35:50 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:35:50 -0500 hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K :-p Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:26:26 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > Nope, for the chopper > > http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper > > Carl > > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > Is that for the GSXR? > > > > Rob > > On 09 Dec 2003 18:06:15 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > > > http://www.ebay.com > > > > > > Search on: 2446478257 > > > > > > Almost there :-) > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > -- > > Rob Sharp > > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > > Network Security Engineer > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 21:56:30 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:56:27 -0500 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 07:07 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Mobacc wrote: >I've also found that instruments away from line of sight contribute to >attention problems. That's one reason I like the GPS on the bike...it's a good 8" higher than the tank, and it has a usable speedo mode. Lets me see how fast I'm going without having to look down at all. >And re: SportVue. Interesting, though possibly not revolutionary. Years >ago (late '80's?) there were on the market postage-stamp PC monitor devices >fittable to glasses. There are such things available, but they aren't cheap. They get used for roving data entry (warehouse work for instance), and by nerds at MIT for their "cyborg" hobby work as well as at the MIT computer lab for their "wearable computing" work. They've built a really neat jacket with three separate computers in it, along with a high speed LAN to connect them and the various sensors (light, radio, infrared, sound, etc.). They've got more computing power in that one jacket than existed in the world when I was born...and it would sure beat trying to mount a laptop on a tank bag! There are some examples of HMDs at: http://wearcam.org/head-mounted-displays.html -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 21:56:31 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:49:49 -0500 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: gun control! At 06:20 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Jon Strang wrote: >Just seeing if list was dead.... Nope. If you haven't gotten at least a couple of dozen message just today, you might want to check your e-mail and/or your subscription status. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 21:56:34 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:57:18 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX At 09:35 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. >Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K His chopper is a Honda, not a hog... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 21:56:41 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:48:48 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Woo Hoo At 06:06 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >http://www.ebay.com > >Search on: 2446478257 > >Almost there :-) Looks nice! The mounting system looks unusual though. Is that what you need for your Honda frame? Or are you planning to weld on some more standard attachment points? (Assuming that the tanks I've seen on TV and in the books I'm reading are standard...no I'm not trying to start that again with regard to bikes! :^) I've heard that welding on gas tanks isn't easy...mostly due to the need to make sure they don't explode in the process. I presume that this one's been used, so the problem will exist. If so, might want to let a pro do it... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 22:03:32 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:03:32 -0500 damnit, I hate agreeing with Bartman but I definetly use my GPS as a speedo, it's more accurate and it's easier than looking at the dial. if I am looking at the speedo, it's usaully to see how fast I am going and the GPS max speed function takes care of that nicely too. Rob > That's one reason I like the GPS on the bike...it's a good 8" higher > than the tank, and it has a usable speedo mode. Lets me see how > fast I'm going without having to look down at all. > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 22:05:38 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 22:05:36 -0500 Damnit! Why would you ruin a good bike. Rob "0 for 1 in hog insults" Sharp On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 21:57:18 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 09:35 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. > >Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K > > His chopper is a Honda, not a hog... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 9 22:33:12 2003 Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:33:12 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 10:03 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >if I am looking at the speedo, it's usaully to see how fast I am going and the >GPS max speed function takes care of that nicely too. "Max speed function"? Are you saying that your GPS doesn't have a speedometer function like mine does? Just not familiar with that term... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 08:16:53 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:16:53 -0500 Yeah, "Max Speed Function" It's basically your top speed over the course of a ride. I also have the current, average moving, average while stopped speeds. So you can keep your eyes on the road when you going faster than you should be, but still wanna know your top speed. Rob On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:33:12 -0500, Mike Bartman wrote > At 10:03 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > > >if I am looking at the speedo, it's usaully to see how fast I am going and > the > >GPS max speed function takes care of that nicely too. > > "Max speed function"? Are you saying that your GPS doesn't have a > speedometer function like mine does? Just not familiar with that term... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 09:56:32 2003 Subject: Re: Woo Hoo From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 09:52:54 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:35, Rob Sharp wrote: > hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. > Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K > Actually it's a 1976 Honda CB750 engine I'm using for the chop. For the money I paid for the Harley, it's not being chopped anytime soon :-) > :-p > > Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp > Carl "Ban generalizations" > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:2 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 10:05:19 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:05:09 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Helmets To: DC Cycles I'm going to be upgrading to a new helmet, and wanted to get input. I've currently got a HJC Cl-10 that I'm reasonably happy with, but since it got damaged, time to replace it. An in the theory of upgrading rather than replacing, I was thinking of one of the convertible helmets. Something like the Jarow Mono X2, or the Nolan N100. Anyone have any experience with these? How is the fit, round vs. pointy heads? Any place to try locally? Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 10:12:57 2003 Subject: Re: Woo Hoo From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 10:09:18 -0500 On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:48, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:06 PM 12/9/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >http://www.ebay.com > > > >Search on: 2446478257 > > > >Almost there :-) > > Looks nice! > > The mounting system looks unusual though. Is that what you need for your > Honda frame? Actually I have a custom frame. It's totally unpainted so, presuming Kevin doesn't have a problem with it structurally, I figure we could simply drill holes where the tank should be mounted and go from there. Minimally I can use hose clamps and a little nipple in those spots on the frame to hold it in place. > Or are you planning to weld on some more standard attachment > points? (Assuming that the tanks I've seen on TV and in the books I'm > reading are standard...no I'm not trying to start that again with regard to > bikes! :^) > > I've heard that welding on gas tanks isn't easy...mostly due to the need to > make sure they don't explode in the process. I presume that this one's > been used, so the problem will exist. If so, might want to let a pro do > it... :^) Yea, from the things I've read, they want it nice and clean, filled with some non-volitile gas and/or filled with sand (that may be pipes though). > > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 10:43:00 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:42:46 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Helmets (lNolan N-100 report) To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles I use the Nolan N-100. The hinges start to get loose after 50,000 miles or so, but by then, the rest of the helmet usually needs replacing anyway. They changed the release so it can be done with only the left hand now, it used to require both hands to release. The chin bar is somewhat closer to the face than some of the normal full face helmets, some people have complained about it hitting them in the nose or chin when closed. It fits a 'long' head better than a Shoei, I had to compress some of the foam to wear a Shoei, but the Nolan fits right out of the box. I think Nolans sizes are a bit smaller than some of the other manufacturers. Leon Begeman. --- Brian Ray wrote: > I'm going to be upgrading to a new helmet, and > wanted > to get input. snip > convertible helmets. Something like the Jarow Mono > X2, or the Nolan N100. Anyone have any experience > with these? How is the fit, round vs. pointy heads? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 10:54:56 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:54:28 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Helmets To: Brian Ray , DC Cycles --- Brian Ray wrote: > ....An in the theory of upgrading rather > than replacing, I was thinking of one of the > convertible helmets. Something like the Jarow Mono > X2, or the Nolan N100. Anyone have any experience > with these? I have the Nolan and the Arrow/Jarow Mono (last year's original version -- I picked it up in London.) The Arrow is a little narrower, a little bit quieter, and has a bit less room around the chin. It also runs a little smaller in size. The Nolan's quick-release strap works better, and its ventilation is better. They're of similar quality (edge perhaps to Arrow), and I like them better than the HJC, Schuberth, etc. (Duh, since these are the ones I bought.) YMMV... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 10:58:36 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 07:58:28 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Helmets (lNolan N-100 report) To: Leon Begeman , Brian Ray , DC Cycles --- Leon Begeman wrote: > I use the Nolan N-100. .... The > chin bar is somewhat closer to the face than some of > the normal full face helmets, some people have > complained about it hitting them in the nose or chin > when closed. This seems to be true of all the flip-ups. > It fits a 'long' head better than a > Shoei, I had to compress some of the foam to wear a > Shoei, but the Nolan fits right out of the box. I > think Nolans sizes are a bit smaller than some of the > other manufacturers. I agree that the Nolan shape is much like the Arai Quantum shape. I find the Nolan sizing to be identical to Arai in the large ranges (I wear XXL in both.) The Nolans got slightly larger when they went from the two-latch system to the one-latch system; I can squeeze into an XL one-latch, which I will probably buy soon. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 11:11:14 2003 Subject: Near Miss From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 11:07:38 -0500 I made the right onto Independance this morning and accelerated. No traffic in front of me and a few cars parked in the right travel (no parking until 9:30 asshole) lanes. I saw a green sedan coming in the other direction and then saw her make a u-turn right in front of me! I did see her and slowed down to avoid hitting her but she pulled into my lane and stopped intending on backing into the parking spot. I stopped next to her window and, probably looking a little wild-eyed, made inarticulate noises (well, probably to her anyway with a full faced helmet on and her window closed). She looked at me for a second or two, then waved me off and turned to back into her spot. And then I did something stupid to match hers. I slammed the flat of my gloved hand on the front left corner of her hood. She kept backing up into her spot and I left passing a cop on the right side watching this in his mirror. Now I want to head down to the Treasury department and leave her a note (no, not key her car, just a little note on watching out for others and how she's a danger to kids in her neighborhood if she can't see a motorcycle, rant rant rant). Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 11:32:56 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 08:32:54 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Burrow Subject: Re: Near Miss To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX If the cop saw the whole incident, I would hope that he gave her a ticket for improper driving. Steve __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 11:42:59 2003 Subject: Re: Near Miss From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 11:39:22 -0500 On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 11:32, Steven Burrow wrote: > If the cop saw the whole incident, I would hope that > he gave her a ticket for improper driving. He didn't appear to be moving when I went by. He had a clipboard with some papers flipped up. I think he was just making sure there wasn't an accident. I'd like to see them walking down the row giving out parking tickets for being parked prior to 9:30. > Steve > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 11:55:38 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:51:44 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 08:16 AM 12/10/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Yeah, "Max Speed Function" It's basically your top speed over the course of >a ride. I also have the current, average moving, average while stopped >speeds. So you can keep your eyes on the road when you going faster than you >should be, but still wanna know your top speed. Ah...ok. I was trying to figure out how you'd use a max speed function to substitute for a speedometer...but I use my speedometer to keep me at (or at least near) the legal speed limit, not just to see how badly I broke the law since the last reset. :^) Thanks for the clarification. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:01:30 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:01:25 -0500 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Near Miss To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >He didn't appear to be moving when I went by. He had a >clipboard with some papers flipped up. I think he was just >making sure there wasn't an accident. [Dave] Wrong! That is cop sign language for "Union Break!" >From what you describe, that was a 'boot to door' offense... they got off easy. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:05:42 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:05:47 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Archive Repair Per Harry, I have repaired the archives to eliminate email addresses and funky file names. The dccycles archive is now being updated and will take a few hours to complete. The 'official' archives are in .tgz format at dc-cycles.org. Mine are the same, in human friendly format and searchable at : http://www.dccycles.com/arch/archive.htm ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:11:44 2003 Subject: Re: Near Miss From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 12:08:08 -0500 On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 12:01, Dave Yates wrote: > >He didn't appear to be moving when I went by. He had a > >clipboard with some papers flipped up. I think he was just > >making sure there wasn't an accident. > > [Dave] Wrong! That is cop sign language for "Union Break!" > > >From what you describe, that was a 'boot to door' offense... > they got off easy. Not really. While it's nice to fantasize about kicking in a door, with a cop sitting there (and I didn't see him so it didn't reflect upon my decision), I probably would have been in some trouble. My thought was to make noise without damaging her vehicle, and I was a little torqued. A flat handed slap to the hood I felt would do no damage and make my point. Of course, if she had been startled and backed into the other car or run into someone it would have been my fault. Fortunately I really did see her as she did the deed and didn't do any panic moves. I was more torqued with the hand wave "you don't matter" than the actual event. > Dave Yates > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:24:12 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:24:09 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Helmets To: DC Cycles I have the HJC Symax. It's bigger than most full-face helmets but I find the flip is convenient, it's comfortable, reasonably quiet, and wasn't terribly expen$ive. In fact, it's $168.99 on sale from tonker.com right now. -Sean --- Brian Ray wrote: > I'm going to be upgrading to a new helmet, and > wanted > to get input. I've currently got a HJC Cl-10 that > I'm > reasonably happy with, but since it got damaged, > time > to replace it. An in the theory of upgrading rather > than replacing, I was thinking of one of the > convertible helmets. Something like the Jarow Mono > X2, or the Nolan N100. Anyone have any experience > with these? How is the fit, round vs. pointy heads? > > Any place to try locally? > > Thanks, > > Brian > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:29:57 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:17:08 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Banning Harleys (was: Re: Woo Hoo) On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:35, Rob Sharp wrote: > Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp Ban Harley's what? (sorry...reflex. I'm updating docs at the moment... :^) Doesn't seem likely that Harleys will be banned, given that a third of all bikes sold in the USA are Harleys, according to something I heard recently (American Thunder? Corbin's Ride On? Not sure where...). http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/hotnews.htm says: "U.S.A. Motorcycle Sales: Ducati reports sales down 20% from last year; meanwhile, Harley-Davidson reports sales are up 20%" http://www.motorcyclenewswire.com/news.cfm?newsid=2237 says: "Milwaukee, WI; (MCNW) Harley-Davidson, Inc. today announced record earnings for its third quarter ended September 28, 2003." and: "Continued strong demand for Harley-Davidson motorcycles and planned increases in production capacity support the CompanyM-^Rs new 2003 target of 291,000 units and a 2004 target of 317,000 units. The 2004 target represents an 8.9 percent increase over the 2003 target." Doesn't seem like a ban is likely... :^) (yes, I know you were joking, but wanted to spread the good news ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:30:05 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:28:56 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Woo Hoo At 10:09 AM 12/10/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:48, Mike Bartman wrote: >> The mounting system looks unusual though. Is that what you need for your >> Honda frame? > >Actually I have a custom frame. It's totally unpainted so, presuming >Kevin doesn't have a problem with it structurally, I figure we could >simply drill holes where the tank should be mounted and go from there. >Minimally I can use hose clamps and a little nipple in those spots on >the frame to hold it in place. I wouldn't recommend hose clamps (remembering that I'm not an Expert here). A tank with a few gallons of gas weighs a fair bit (tank weight plus about 6 lbs/gallon for the gas), and it's subject to some fairly high accelerations when you hit bumps, or just from engine vibration (perhaps a bit less with your Honda engine ;^). Hose clamps are designed to keep rubber hoses on pipes, not hold dozens of pounds against dozens of Gs for hundreds of hours. I've heard of choppers breaking off welded-on tank brackets when they weren't substantial enough (or the weld wasn't a good one maybe). Having your tank break loose on the road might be more exciting than you'd like. Besides, hose clamps look like crap. :^) Some vibration isolation might be good too. Most tanks seem to have rubber grommet/bumpers at the attachment points. You don't want your tank rubbing on your frame do you? Don't know if it would wear through and spill gas or not, but it can't be a good thing. >> I've heard that welding on gas tanks isn't easy...mostly due to the need to >> make sure they don't explode in the process. I presume that this one's > >Yea, from the things I've read, they want it nice and clean, filled with >some non-volitile gas and/or filled with sand (that may be pipes >though). Yes, I believe the standard practice is to wash them out well, then have a *flow* of some inert gas (such as argon) going through the tank during welding to carry away any flammable materials that seep out of the "pores" of the metal after it's washed with solvent. If you do that, I hear the chances of explosion are minimal. Never heard of sand for welding. Filling tubing with sand before you bend it can help reduce kinking, but they make long spring-like metal coils that do that job better. Or so I've heard. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 12:36:06 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 12:37:01 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Near Miss At 12:08 PM 12/10/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >Fortunately I really did see her as she did the deed and didn't do any >panic moves. I was more torqued with the hand wave "you don't matter" >than the actual event. Don't blame you. I have, in the distant past, actually kicked car doors for similar behavior. More than once. Sort of a "SEE ME *NOW*, ASSHOLE!?!" thing. Now that I've mellowed a bit more, I'm thinking that that sort of thing is childish. Much better to build a little pump and tank deal, back near the rear license plate maybe, that can squirt some Dot-3 brake fluid a few feet to one side...attracts much less attention, and has an even better "revenge factor". ;^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 13:17:41 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Leon Begeman'" , Brian Ray , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Helmets (lNolan N-100 report) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:22:30 -0500 Just to add to that, the Nolan feels like a nice piece of equipment. When you raise the shield, it doesn't feel like any of my Shoeis going dak-dak-dak-dak, but rather one nice fluid motion. There is quite a bit of ventilation, even with all the vents closed. The other thing I've noticed is that when you put the helmet on with the chin bar up and tighten the (quick release) strap to the desired setting then put the bar down, the helmet squeezes my jaw. This may be my Shoei head, don't know. Also, I'm having the used-to-be-able-to-use-one-hand-to-open-but-now-have-to-use-two problem with my hinges. I have the face shield off now and will squirt lube in like was suggested, so weeel see. FYI. Mike -Nolan N100, Shoei RF-R, RF-800, O'Neal MX, ooold Bell 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Leon Begeman [SMTP:mriderleon@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:43 AM > To: Brian Ray; DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Helmets (lNolan N-100 report) > > I use the Nolan N-100. The hinges start to get loose > after 50,000 miles or so, but by then, the rest of the > helmet usually needs replacing anyway. They changed > the release so it can be done with only the left hand > now, it used to require both hands to release. The > chin bar is somewhat closer to the face than some of > the normal full face helmets, some people have > complained about it hitting them in the nose or chin > when closed. It fits a 'long' head better than a > Shoei, I had to compress some of the foam to wear a > Shoei, but the Nolan fits right out of the box. I > think Nolans sizes are a bit smaller than some of the > other manufacturers. > > Leon Begeman. > --- Brian Ray wrote: > > I'm going to be upgrading to a new helmet, and > > wanted > > to get input. > snip > > convertible helmets. Something like the Jarow Mono > > X2, or the Nolan N100. Anyone have any experience > > with these? How is the fit, round vs. pointy heads? > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 13:26:22 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 10:26:16 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: 211 Fatality - Sportrider article To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The following link leads to an article discussing the accident on 211 this fall that took John Kostolznik's life. (Wayne graciously agreed to host it on his website.) http://www.blueblackbusa.org/sportrider.pdf -Aaron ========= >I'm forwarding an article that appears in The >February edition of Sport Rider 2004, a magazine >geared towards sport bikes. It talks about my brother >John and I. > >Peter Kosztolnik >Northern Virginia Graphics, Inc. >307 Annandale Road, Suite 200 >Falls Church, VA 22042 >Phone: 703 / 538-3630 >Fax: 703 / 538-3653 >Cell: 703 / 402-7711 >Email: pkosztolnik@XXXXXX >www.nvg-inc.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:17:00 2003 From: Richard Westbrook To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:16:14 -0500 I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so that it registers? Also if it needs to be mounted somehow, what's the best way to do that. -Rich 95 honda VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:24:35 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:24:16 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Smart Tag On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Richard Westbrook wrote: > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:16:14 -0500 > From: Richard Westbrook > To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" > Subject: Smart Tag > > I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention > to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question > about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so > that it registers? I've had good luck with it mounted on the inside of my windshield, using the provided velcro-like sticky things. Seems to work for my car and both bikes. I originally had some worry about the box falling off, and considered building some sort of leash, but haven't ever gotten around to it. I may jinx myself in saying this, but, I've not had any problems so far. You can get extra sticky things if you stop by the smart-tag office, or boxes of the stuff are available at Oriface-Despot like places. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:25:39 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:16:53 -0500 From: Laura Roach To: Richard Westbrook CC: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Smart Tag Richard Westbrook wrote: >I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention >to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question >about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so >that it registers? > > I'm sure you'll get varying responses, but I never attached mine physically to the bike...too easy to steal. :) I always kept mine in the map pocket on the top of my tank bag. Registered just fine and came with me when I left my bike parked somewhere. LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:45:32 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Michael Lynch , "'Leon Begeman'" , Brian Ray , DC Cycles Subject: Re: RE: Helmets (lNolan N-100 report) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:45:24 -0500 > From: Michael Lynch > > Just to add to that, the Nolan feels like a nice piece of equipment. FWIW, I tried on a couple of N100s last Spring, and they were the least comfortable helmet I've ever worn, I think. Heads do vary, so be sure to try on whatever you plan to buy BEFORE you buy it. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:53:03 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Richard Westbrook" , "DC-Cycles \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:51:40 -0500 Rich, works just fine on the VFR's stock windscreen. Well, about 99% of the time. There's a trooper with the Va. State Police who might take issue the "works just fine" comment. :-] Just slip it into a pocket when you get to the salt mine to deter theft. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Westbrook" > I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention > to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question > about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so > that it registers? > > Also if it needs to be mounted somehow, what's the best way to do that. > > -Rich > 95 honda VFR > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 14:59:31 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Richard Westbrook , "DC-Cycles "E-mail"" Subject: Re: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:59:22 -0500 > > From: Richard Westbrook > Date: 2003/12/10 Wed PM 02:16:14 EST > To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" > Subject: Smart Tag > > I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention > to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question > about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so > that it registers? > > Also if it needs to be mounted somehow, what's the best way to do that. > I used to have mine mounted with velcro to the base of my dash, under the windshield. Worked fine. But for some reason, it got really irregular there. Even swapped for a new tag at the Smart-Tag office, and still have problems. Also get intermittant problems when it's in a tank bag. The basic answer: the higher the better, and the closer to the angle it sits at on a windshield the better. If you don't want ot glue the snap lock strips to your shield, heres another option. I haven't actually tried this on the bike yet, but it grips the windshield in my wife's van like it was glued on: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/rodi/ezclip.html Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:00:07 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:59:58 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Ray Subject: Re: Smart Tag To: DC Cycles Speaking of smart tags, anyone have any idea as to when it will be compatible with the rest of the tollway system on the East Coast? And of the rest of the system, where's the best place to get the equipment? I seem to remember that it was cheaper if you get it in Deleware or something... Thanks, Brian __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:05:08 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Brian Ray" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:04:21 -0500 Supposedly next year ('04) Va is joining the EZ Pass consortium. Then I can ditch one of the transponders I have. They're already in the process of changing some of the signage to EZ Pass Purple, from what I hear. Some of the consortium members have started assessing monthly maintenance fees and whatnot. I got mine in Maryland and so far, so good. No fees. Maryland did raise their tolls quite substantially recently. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Ray" > Speaking of smart tags, anyone have any idea as to > when it will be compatible with the rest of the > tollway system on the East Coast? > > And of the rest of the system, where's the best place > to get the equipment? I seem to remember that it was > cheaper if you get it in Deleware or something... > > Thanks, > > Brian > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:06:23 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: RichardW@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:54:17 -0500 If you have the stock screen on your bike, that is the best place. It's what worked well on my '98 until I installed a Double Bubble and the curve was to great to mount there. I've since installed a ram mount for my gps and put the 3M hook/loop stuff on the top of it with great results. YMMV. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Richard Westbrook To: "DC-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:16:14 -0500 I know this topic has been discussed before, but I've never paid attention to it before. Now that I got a new job out in Herndon I have a question about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the best place to put it so that it registers? Also if it needs to be mounted somehow, what's the best way to do that. -Rich 95 honda VFR _________________________________________________________________ Get holiday tips for festive fun. http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:09:58 2003 From: Richard Westbrook To: DC Cycles Subject: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:09:15 -0500 On the Smart Tag website its says they expect to be fully compatible with EZ Pass by Fall of 2004. Who knows if that time line will actually happen. -Rich > ---------- > From: Brian Ray > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:59 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Smart Tag > > Speaking of smart tags, anyone have any idea as to > when it will be compatible with the rest of the > tollway system on the East Coast? > > And of the rest of the system, where's the best place > to get the equipment? I seem to remember that it was > cheaper if you get it in Deleware or something... > > Thanks, > > Brian > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:11:17 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: VA and E-ZPass Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:10:27 -0500 Here's the press release on Virginia's integration in the E-ZPass network. http://www.virginiadot.org/infoservice/news/newsrelease.asp?ID=CO-44 Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:13:41 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Paul Wilson'" , Brian Ray , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:18:35 -0500 FWIW, I've used the EZ-Pass system extensively. Not sure how different the Smart Tag is, but in the map pocket of the tank bag, just take your left hand off the bar, lean back a little and roll through at ~15MPH. AFAIK, NY is still free equip and no service fee, which is what I do. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:04 PM > To: Brian Ray; DC Cycles > Subject: Re: Smart Tag > > Supposedly next year ('04) Va is joining the EZ Pass consortium. Then I > can > ditch one of the transponders I have. They're already in the process of > changing some of the signage to EZ Pass Purple, from what I hear. > > Some of the consortium members have started assessing monthly maintenance > fees and whatnot. I got mine in Maryland and so far, so good. No fees. > Maryland did raise their tolls quite substantially recently. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Ray" > > > > > Speaking of smart tags, anyone have any idea as to > > when it will be compatible with the rest of the > > tollway system on the East Coast? > > > > And of the rest of the system, where's the best place > > to get the equipment? I seem to remember that it was > > cheaper if you get it in Deleware or something... > > > > Thanks, > > > > Brian > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:37:59 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:26:22 -0500 On my Seca II, stuck it to the sheild w/ the velcro. Can call & they'll mail them to you. Never had a problem w/ it coming off, tested to a decent speed too. On my SVS I just shoove it under the shield, no problems there either. Smart Tag is to join up w/ EZ Pass next fall. NJ charges $1 a month fee. I have mine from MD, no fee. _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kidsM-^R toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 15:57:36 2003 Subject: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:57:28 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: What's the cheapest option to get an EZpass? Each state seems to have different price schedules, deposit amounts, minimums. (Ezpass.com doesn't show prices for VA.) The only time I would use the pass is riding up to either PA/NJ/NY, which doesn't occur very often. Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 16:00:18 2003 From: To: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" , Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:00:11 -0500 Va only charges a one time fee of $20. No annual committment or fees after that besides whatever tolls you actually pay. -aki > > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > Date: 2003/12/10 Wed PM 03:57:28 EST > To: > Subject: RE: Smart Tag > > > What's the cheapest option to get an EZpass? > > Each state seems to have different price schedules, deposit amounts, minimums. (Ezpass.com doesn't show prices for VA.) > > The only time I would use the pass is riding up to either PA/NJ/NY, which doesn't occur very often. > > Witold > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 16:01:52 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 13:01:44 -0800 (PST) From: Kelly Norton Subject: Re: Smart Tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I've been using a bag with the suction cups stuck to my windscreen. The windscreen was curved too much to use the velcro. It has worked fine so far (about 2 months) the one I have is something like this: http://tinyurl.com/ynn2 mine has larger suction cups. I don't know where to get one. Mine was a gift. --- Richard Westbrook wrote: > I know this topic has been discussed before, but > I've never paid attention > to it before. Now that I got a new job out in > Herndon I have a question > about mounting a Smart Tag on the bike. Where is the > best place to put it so > that it registers? > > Also if it needs to be mounted somehow, what's the > best way to do that. > > -Rich > 95 honda VFR > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 16:24:44 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:29:38 -0500 www.ezpassny.com SCHEDULE OF DEPOSITS/ADMINISTRATIVE FEES Per Tag deposit (cash and check customers) $10.00 Per Tag deposit (credit card customers) waived Cost of Tag if defaced, damaged, lost or stolen: Interior: $23.00 Exterior: $29.40 Returned check fee: $15.00 Monthly statement by mail, annual fee: $ 6.00 Duplicate copy of Statement: $ 2.00 Tag misuse/violation administrative fees: Up to $50.00 So, creditcard customers with electronic billing pay $0. The float on the account is $35., replenished from the cc when it gets low. (from personal experience) Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX [SMTP:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 4:00 PM > To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services; > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag > > Va only charges a one time fee of $20. No annual committment or fees > after that besides whatever tolls you actually pay. > > -aki > > > > > > > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > Date: 2003/12/10 Wed PM 03:57:28 EST > > To: > > Subject: RE: Smart Tag > > > > > > What's the cheapest option to get an EZpass? > > > > Each state seems to have different price schedules, deposit amounts, > minimums. (Ezpass.com doesn't show prices for VA.) > > > > The only time I would use the pass is riding up to either PA/NJ/NY, > which doesn't occur very often. > > > > Witold > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 16:47:29 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:47:21 -0500 I don't remember a one time fee for my smart tag, I wasn't commuting that way then and wouldn't have paid it. That was 4 yrs ago. I go up to NY or across the Bay Bridge about a 1/2 dozen times a yr, the time it saves, it's well worth it. I hope SmartTag doesn't do that damn 10mph crap EZ Pass does. Smart Tag picks up, beyond the speed limit, so I've heard. >From: >To: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" , > >Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:00:11 -0500 > >Va only charges a one time fee of $20. No annual committment or fees after >that besides whatever tolls you actually pay. > > > > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > Date: 2003/12/10 Wed PM 03:57:28 EST > > To: > > Subject: RE: Smart Tag > >> > > > The only time I would use the pass is riding up to either PA/NJ/NY, >which doesn't occur very often. _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of our best MSN Dial-up offer of the year )B— six months @$9.95/month. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 16:48:37 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (ADMIN) Archive Repair Content-ID: <22769.1071092906.1@XXXXXX> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:48:26 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >Per Harry, I have repaired the archives to eliminate email addresses... Yah, as a limp attempt to try to discourage the spread of lister email addresses for culling by spammers, the dc-cycles archives will no longer contain the "domain" part (i.e. the part after the '@') of anybody's email address. For instance, messages will now look like: ... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 10:23:20 1997 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:22:48 -0400 (EDT) To: Chris Norloff , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Squeakers Subject: Re: Rights vs Priviledges [was: Rookie MCP Cop ... This change has been applied retroactively to all the past years of archives, and will be applied to new messages as they are archived. Nothing will change in the appearance of the normal live postings or digests, etc, just the archives. -harry p.s. Anybody accessing the list via the Yahoo Groups 'dc-cycles' group? If it's not widely used, it may be best to try to decommission it, as it apparently has several years of list archives as well. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 17:20:42 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:20:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: (ADMIN) Archive Repair On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, Harry Mantakos wrote: > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 16:48:26 -0500 > From: Harry Mantakos > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: (ADMIN) Archive Repair > > >Per Harry, I have repaired the archives to eliminate email addresses... > > Yah, as a limp attempt to try to discourage the spread of lister > email addresses for culling by spammers, the dc-cycles archives Anything helps! Thanks! > > p.s. Anybody accessing the list via the Yahoo Groups 'dc-cycles' group? > If it's not widely used, it may be best to try to decommission it, > as it apparently has several years of list archives as well. Yahoo groups tend to sucketh mightily. My vote would be to terminate with prejudice, please! -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 17:24:20 2003 Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:24:13 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Hmmm... I guess the remaining question is whether I can get an EZPass from ezpassny if I don't have a NY address I can point them to. I'll give this a try anyway. > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > www.ezpassny.com > SCHEDULE OF DEPOSITS/ADMINISTRATIVE FEES > Per Tag deposit (cash and check customers) $10.00 > Per Tag deposit (credit card customers) waived > Cost of Tag if defaced, damaged, lost or stolen: Interior: $23.00 > Exterior: $29.40 > Returned check fee: $15.00 > Monthly statement by mail, annual fee: $ 6.00 > Duplicate copy of Statement: $ 2.00 > Tag misuse/violation administrative fees: Up to $50.00 > So, creditcard customers with electronic billing pay $0. The > float on the > account is $35., replenished from the cc when it gets low. > (from personal > experience) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 17:27:03 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" , Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:26:16 -0500 Yup, they don't care. They'll gladly take your money and the earnings on the "float" from your unused balances. I don't live in MD and Maryland gladly sent me an E-ZPass. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > Hmmm... I guess the remaining question is whether I can get an EZPass from ezpassny if I don't have a NY address I can point them to. I'll give this a try anyway. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 17:58:07 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 17:58:07 -0500 CB750 is an Inline 4 right? Most choppers/customs are V-twins I thought. Definetly an interesting combination. When are you gonna have it finished? Rob On 10 Dec 2003 09:52:54 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:35, Rob Sharp wrote: > > hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. > > Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K > > > > Actually it's a 1976 Honda CB750 engine I'm using for the chop. For the > money I paid for the Harley, it's not being chopped anytime soon :-) > > > :-p > > > > Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp > > > > Carl "Ban generalizations" > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:2 -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:01:20 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:01:22 -0500 Hehe, how many people get motorcycles so they can go the speed limit :) Rob > not just to > see how badly I broke the law since the last reset. :^) > > Thanks for the clarification. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:07:12 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes, you should be able to do this. FYI, I have an EZ-Pass from DRPA (Delaware River Port Authority) and they are the fuckers charging a monthly fee now. Waiting until VA gets online so I can give them back to them. Glenn --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > Hmmm... I guess the remaining question is whether I > can get an EZPass from ezpassny if I don't have a NY > address I can point them to. I'll give this a try > anyway. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:12:31 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Michael Lynch , "'Paul Wilson'" , Brian Ray , DC Cycles Cc: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:12:25 -0500 I have a NY EZPass and there is still no service fee , just the tolls. Rob On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:18:35 -0500, Michael Lynch wrote > FWIW, I've used the EZ-Pass system extensively. Not sure how > different the Smart Tag is, but in the map pocket of the tank bag, > just take your left hand off the bar, lean back a little and roll > through at ~15MPH. > > AFAIK, NY is still free equip and no service fee, which is what I do. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:04 PM > > To: Brian Ray; DC Cycles > > Subject: Re: Smart Tag > > > > Supposedly next year ('04) Va is joining the EZ Pass consortium. Then I > > can > > ditch one of the transponders I have. They're already in the process of > > changing some of the signage to EZ Pass Purple, from what I hear. > > > > Some of the consortium members have started assessing monthly maintenance > > fees and whatnot. I got mine in Maryland and so far, so good. No fees. > > Maryland did raise their tolls quite substantially recently. > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brian Ray" > > > > > > > > > Speaking of smart tags, anyone have any idea as to > > > when it will be compatible with the rest of the > > > tollway system on the East Coast? > > > > > > And of the rest of the system, where's the best place > > > to get the equipment? I seem to remember that it was > > > cheaper if you get it in Deleware or something... > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Brian > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > > > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > > > -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:12:55 2003 Subject: Re: Woo Hoo From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 18:09:17 -0500 On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 17:58, Rob Sharp wrote: > CB750 is an Inline 4 right? Yep. > Most current > choppers/customs are V-twins I thought. Check out http://www.hondachopper.com. There're quite a community of folks who chop the 70's era Honda SOHC 750's. I found them quite by accident. Most of "The Horse" magazine is oriented to Honda and Triumph choppers (with others of course). > Definetly an interesting combination. When are you gonna have it finished? > Wellll, that's the interesting part. Leon has a vapor-chopper project ;-) and we're sort of competing on having ours done by April. I think (based on Leon's comments) I'm farther along than he is. If you check my site (http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper) you'll see where I am and where I have to go. I pretty much have all of the largest parts. I've said it in a couple of places but what's left is handlebars, fenders and pipes. Once I get those together, I'll be able to have tabs welded on, the frame cleaned up and then painted. With the ski trip next weekend, one more in January, the ski trip at the end of January to Winter Park in Colorado and the sale of the house in March, I'll be pretty tight on time. Basically I want a rolling bike by April so I can move it without help from 2 other people. > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:24:42 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:23:22 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Woo Hoo Bakc in the late `70s my pal built a Honda 750 chopper on a John Harman (?) frame. It was quite cool looking. He pa9inted it metalic blue with silver ghost flames and did the engone in black wrinkle paint baked on inna makeshift oven. Bill Rob Sharp wrote: > CB750 is an Inline 4 right? Most choppers/customs are V-twins I thought. > Definetly an interesting combination. When are you gonna have it finished? > > Rob > > On 10 Dec 2003 09:52:54 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:35, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. > > > Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K > > > > > > > Actually it's a 1976 Honda CB750 engine I'm using for the chop. For the > > money I paid for the Harley, it's not being chopped anytime soon :-) > > > > > :-p > > > > > > Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp > > > > > > > Carl "Ban generalizations" > > > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:2 > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:29:11 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:29:07 -0800 (PST) From: Leon Begeman Subject: Re: Woo Hoo To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Carl is correct, he's farther along than I am. I've got a frame with the wrong fuel tank welded to it and a bunch of other parts, some of which I might even use on the chopper. Mine is on the Ninja 250 vapor mod list at http://jimrace.com/faq/vapormods.html. For some reason, it got #1 billing. There's even a picture of it when the previous owner had it. It isn't that far along now, po kept all of the Ninja 250 parts, I got the chopper specific stuff. And yes, April is the target date. It would be nice to disassemble it for paint in April. Leon. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Wellll, that's the interesting part. Leon has a > vapor-chopper project > ;-) and we're sort of competing on having ours done > by April. I think > (based on Leon's comments) I'm farther along than he > is. > > If you check my site > (http://www.geocities.com/dm_gsxr/chopper) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 18:35:46 2003 Subject: Re: Woo Hoo From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 10 Dec 2003 18:32:09 -0500 For me that's part of the idea here. I can pay someone 35k or more to make me a chopper (aka OCC or Jesse James) or I can learn a lot (and I have). The guy I got the Suzuki from didn't do any maintenance work on the bike when he had it, always taking it to the dealer for work. The only thing I've taken it to the dealer for is changing the chain and I'm sure I could have done it myself had I thought about it. Carl On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 18:23, William J. Huson wrote: > Bakc in the late `70s my pal built a Honda 750 chopper on a John Harman (?) > frame. It was quite cool looking. He pa9inted it metalic blue with silver ghost > flames and did the engone in black wrinkle paint baked on inna makeshift oven. > > Bill > > Rob Sharp wrote: > > > CB750 is an Inline 4 right? Most choppers/customs are V-twins I thought. > > Definetly an interesting combination. When are you gonna have it finished? > > > > Rob > > > > On 10 Dec 2003 09:52:54 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > > > On Tue, 2003-12-09 at 21:35, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > > hehe I figured it wasn't for a GSXR, lord knows they are perfect already. > > > > Only hogs need to be heavily modified (chopped) to be a decent bike. J/K > > > > > > > > > > Actually it's a 1976 Honda CB750 engine I'm using for the chop. For the > > > money I paid for the Harley, it's not being chopped anytime soon :-) > > > > > > > :-p > > > > > > > > Rob "Ban Assault rifles, Harley's and Cages" Sharp > > > > > > > > > > Carl "Ban generalizations" > > > > > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 17:2 > > > > -- > > Rob Sharp > > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > > Network Security Engineer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 19:46:43 2003 From: "ALL OUT RACING" To: Subject: Re: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:52:03 -0500 UNSUBSCRIBE! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:24 PM Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag > > Hmmm... I guess the remaining question is whether I can get an EZPass from ezpassny if I don't have a NY address I can point them to. I'll give this a try anyway. > > > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > > www.ezpassny.com > > SCHEDULE OF DEPOSITS/ADMINISTRATIVE FEES > > Per Tag deposit (cash and check customers) $10.00 > > Per Tag deposit (credit card customers) waived > > Cost of Tag if defaced, damaged, lost or stolen: Interior: $23.00 > > Exterior: $29.40 > > Returned check fee: $15.00 > > Monthly statement by mail, annual fee: $ 6.00 > > Duplicate copy of Statement: $ 2.00 > > Tag misuse/violation administrative fees: Up to $50.00 > > So, creditcard customers with electronic billing pay $0. The > > float on the > > account is $35., replenished from the cc when it gets low. > > (from personal > > experience) > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 20:02:15 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:15:39 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: ALL OUT RACING Cc: Subject: Getting off the list (was Smart Tag) On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, ALL OUT RACING wrote: > UNSUBSCRIBE! Stop yelling :-) You obviously subscribed yourself, but now can't figure out how to unsubscribe? Here is the information you need: From http://www.dc-cycles.org/listinfo.html: To unsubscribe from the undigested list, send a message to dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX with the word 'unsubscribe' in the subject line, like so: From: myaddress@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Subject: unsubscribe To unsubscribe from the digest list, send a message to dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX with the word 'unsubscribe' in the subject line, like so: From: myaddress@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX Subject: unsubscribe You're welcome. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 20:57:20 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Aaron'" , Subject: RE: 211 Fatality - Sportrider article Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 20:57:16 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c260954b4f4e6374e21a9ee39b5bb72138d4e667c3043c0873f7e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c I took my first ride over 211 on my V-Strom that day. Probably less than 30 minutes after it happened (bikes were still in the weeds). Definitely pulled clouds over the day. Enjoy the roads, but if ya gotta push it that hard - that's what track days are for. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 21:01:25 2003 Reply-To: From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: Near Miss Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 21:01:19 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 599158c4802a0bc829d2c221526d1bab239a348a220c2609515a75270770a5c0ca491fe61aa3e15e350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c I used to carry a ball-peen hammer with a long handle when I was in 'Nam. Used it a few times in traffic :-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 21:03:15 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: 211 Fatality - Sportrider article To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I thought it was the R1 who went over the double-yellow not the guy who died. I'm not sure what you could do to avoid that situation other than stay home. It could just as easily have been a motor home or a bunch of drunk kids in a mini-van (or pickup or Taurus or not drunk). Carl --- Michael Jordan wrote: > I took my first ride over 211 on my V-Strom that day. > > Probably less than 30 minutes after it happened (bikes were still in the > weeds). > > Definitely pulled clouds over the day. > > Enjoy the roads, but if ya gotta push it that hard - that's what track > days > are for. > > Michael J. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 21:04:48 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:04:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Near Miss To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX LOL, the other guy here has a rubber mallet hanging out of his passenger bar bag. I don't know if he's used it but I wouldn't put it past him. Carl --- Michael Jordan wrote: > I used to carry a ball-peen hammer with a long handle when I was in > 'Nam. > > Used it a few times in traffic :-) > > Michael J. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 21:40:20 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 18:40:12 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Getting off the list (was Smart Tag) To: Wayne Edelen , ALL OUT RACING Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX that was at least a request and perhaps a demand. gary would like to see all the folks who've been boring the hell out of us with this ezpass thread booted to the curb. --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Wed, 10 Dec 2003, ALL OUT RACING wrote: > > > UNSUBSCRIBE! > > Stop yelling :-) You obviously subscribed yourself, but > now can't figure > out how to unsubscribe? Here is the information you > need: > > From http://www.dc-cycles.org/listinfo.html: > > To unsubscribe from the undigested list, send a message > to > dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the subject > line, like so: > > From: myaddress@XXXXXX > To: dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX > Subject: unsubscribe > > To unsubscribe from the digest list, send a message to > dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX with the word > 'unsubscribe' in the > subject line, like so: > > From: myaddress@XXXXXX > To: dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX > Subject: unsubscribe > > You're welcome. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 22:12:29 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:12:21 -0500 I'd switch to MD now. >From: Glenn Dysart >To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , >dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:07:09 -0800 (PST) > >FYI, I have an EZ-Pass from DRPA (Delaware River Port >Authority) and they are the fuckers charging a monthly >fee now. Waiting until VA gets online so I can give >them back to them. _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids)B’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 10 22:17:34 2003 Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 19:17:12 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: RE: Smart Tag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Lynch wrote: > www.ezpassny.com > So, creditcard customers with electronic billing pay $0. > The float on the > account is $35., replenished from the cc when it gets low. > (from personal experience) Maryland is free, and the float is $25. NJ, etc. charge a $1 per month fee. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 01:14:26 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:14:06 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 06:01 PM 12/10/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Hehe, how many people get motorcycles so they can go the speed limit :) A lot? Some? Ok, me. :^) I'm no more likely to speed on my bike than in my jeep...at least so far. I'm more interested in keeping the delta-V between me and the nearest moving objects low. If that means a little over the limit, ok. If it means going the limit, or a little under, that's ok too...especially on the bike. On the bike I'm not usually trying to *get* somewhere. I'm already where I want to be. I guess that's the difference between a standard/cruiser type rider and a race/sport bike rider. :^) -- Mike B. P.S. the side benefit of this seems to be a low incidence of judges in my immediate vicinity. Cops tend to be attracted to the fastest thing in the area, and if that's not me, even if I'm a bit over the limit too, I'm usually safe. Hang with the pack and you don't often get singled out. At those times when I'm the only one on the road, there don't tend to be a lot of cops around...poor "hunting". That's my theory anyway. :^) **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 08:01:32 2003 From: "rich hall" To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:24 -0500 I think Rob meant sportbikes. >From: Mike Bartman >To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" >Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:14:06 -0500 > >At 06:01 PM 12/10/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >Hehe, how many people get motorcycles so they can go the speed limit :) > >A lot? Some? Ok, me. :^) >I guess that's the difference between a standard/cruiser type rider and a >race/sport bike rider. :^) _________________________________________________________________ Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:05:04 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "rich hall" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:04:44 -0500 Not really, but I see your point that people would get sportbikes to go fast, but most harleys are 1200 + cc right ? (except the 883cc, still a bigger engine then my Honda V4, 748cc). I have only riden my VFR and NT650 (Rebel 250 from MSF), but I bet that off the line a lot of those harley's are pretty damn quick. Rob On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 08:01:24 -0500, rich hall wrote > I think Rob meant sportbikes. > > >From: Mike Bartman > >To: "Rob Sharp" , "DC-Cycles" > >Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit > >Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 01:14:06 -0500 > > > >At 06:01 PM 12/10/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > >Hehe, how many people get motorcycles so they can go the speed limit :) > > > >A lot? Some? Ok, me. :^) > >I guess that's the difference between a standard/cruiser type rider and a > >race/sport bike rider. :^) > > _________________________________________________________________ > Our best dial-up offer is back. Get MSN Dial-up Internet Service > for 6 months @ $9.95/month now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:11:56 2003 Subject: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 09:08:18 -0500 Morning. Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able to get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're here. As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just my opinion). Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:13:32 2003 Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 09:09:54 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:04, Rob Sharp wrote: > Not really, but I see your point that people would get sportbikes to go fast, > but most harleys are 1200 + cc right ? (except the 883cc, still a bigger > engine then my Honda V4, 748cc). I have only riden my VFR and NT650 (Rebel > 250 from MSF), but I bet that off the line a lot of those harley's are pretty > damn quick. > Probably after some work. I know that when I'm at 80 or so it doesn't feel real stable (at least in this area; out west I had no problem driving through South Dakota at 80). > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:21:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Morning Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:26:47 -0500 Morning. Silver helmet? Red bike? 8:35ish? Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Morning > > Morning. > > Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able to > get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're here. > > As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead > someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In > the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just my > opinion). > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road :-) > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:22:57 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: list bugs? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:22:05 -0500 Did anyone just miss just over 24 hours of dc-cycles? It was like I was unsubbed for a day and a half or so.... --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:25:12 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:38:32 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit On Thu, 11 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Not really, but I see your point that people would get sportbikes to go fast, > but most harleys are 1200 + cc right ? (except the 883cc, still a bigger > engine then my Honda V4, 748cc). I have only riden my VFR and NT650 (Rebel > 250 from MSF), but I bet that off the line a lot of those harley's are pretty > damn quick. Not really. In a world of Honda Accords with 240hp/6spds, Harleys are barely able to keep ahead of an econobox in a sprint. I've ridden some of the newer models and they are not made for anything but comfy cruising (IMO). -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:25:30 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:25:17 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Morning To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Not me, they will never take me alive! ;-) Glenn --- Carl Schelin wrote: I > guess the > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the > scofflaws off the road :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:30:38 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 06:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Morning On 11 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road :-) It was pissing down rain when I rode in, and my gear was still wet from riding home last night. Feh. Stupid boots, they LEAK! Fish. drip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:34:06 2003 Subject: RE: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 09:30:29 -0500 Time is right. Don't recall the helmet and couldn't see the bike. All I saw was the torso up. I was on the ramp from HOV and he was filtering between the right and center lanes just about at the Maine Ave offramp. It was just before the big red truck to the hill down to the first light. Carl On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:26, Michael Lynch wrote: > Morning. Silver helmet? Red bike? 8:35ish? > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Morning > > > > Morning. > > > > Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able to > > get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're here. > > > > As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead > > someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In > > the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just my > > opinion). > > > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road :-) > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:39:40 2003 Subject: Re: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 09:36:03 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:30, Fish Flowers wrote: > On 11 Dec 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road :-) > > It was pissing down rain when I rode in, and my gear was still wet from > riding home last night. Feh. Stupid boots, they LEAK! > My gear dried quite well last night and my boots were dry as well. Walmart bags and then Totes works pretty well. I hung my gear in the utility room. They smell a touch of catboxes but they're dry :-) > Fish. > drip > Carl dry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:46:51 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Morning Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:51:50 -0500 Yeh, sounds about right, a little after that I switched over to between left and center lanes. Only got one beep today, from a pickup. They get a backwards facing open-close hand wave (like little kids do) as if to say, "buh bye!" Paul and I passed each other on the parkway just above the airport, too. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:30 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Morning > > Time is right. Don't recall the helmet and couldn't see the bike. All I > saw was the torso up. I was on the ramp from HOV and he was filtering > between the right and center lanes just about at the Maine Ave offramp. > It was just before the big red truck to the hill down to the first > light. > > Carl > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:26, Michael Lynch wrote: > > Morning. Silver helmet? Red bike? 8:35ish? > > > > Mike > > 98 XR400 > > 96 VFR > > 76 CB400F > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: Morning > > > > > > Morning. > > > > > > Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able > to > > > get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're > here. > > > > > > As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead > > > someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In > > > the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just > my > > > opinion). > > > > > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > > > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road > :-) > > > > > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:51:23 2003 Subject: RE: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 09:47:46 -0500 Cool. How many points for a lister sighting ;-) Carl On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:51, Michael Lynch wrote: > Yeh, sounds about right, a little after that I switched over to between left > and center lanes. Only got one beep today, from a pickup. They get a > backwards facing open-close hand wave (like little kids do) as if to say, > "buh bye!" > > Paul and I passed each other on the parkway just above the airport, too. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:30 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: Morning > > > > Time is right. Don't recall the helmet and couldn't see the bike. All I > > saw was the torso up. I was on the ramp from HOV and he was filtering > > between the right and center lanes just about at the Maine Ave offramp. > > It was just before the big red truck to the hill down to the first > > light. > > > > Carl > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:26, Michael Lynch wrote: > > > Morning. Silver helmet? Red bike? 8:35ish? > > > > > > Mike > > > 98 XR400 > > > 96 VFR > > > 76 CB400F > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM > > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > > Subject: Morning > > > > > > > > Morning. > > > > > > > > Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able > > to > > > > get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're > > here. > > > > > > > > As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead > > > > someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In > > > > the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just > > my > > > > opinion). > > > > > > > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > > > > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the scofflaws off the road > > :-) > > > > > > > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 09:52:58 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Lynch" , "'Carl Schelin'" , Subject: Re: Morning Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 09:51:55 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lynch" To: "'Carl Schelin'" ; Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Morning > Yeh, sounds about right, a little after that I switched over to between left > and center lanes. Only got one beep today, from a pickup. They get a > backwards facing open-close hand wave (like little kids do) as if to say, > "buh bye!" > > Paul and I passed each other on the parkway just above the airport, too. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F Yeah, that was me on the crapulent VF500. I think I waved perfunctorily. Yeah, traffic was great today. 18 minutes door-to-door. WTF? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 10:06:45 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Paul Wilson'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Morning Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:11:15 -0500 You tend to have the "How" type of wave anyway. If I recognize someone, I'll point at them. Otherwise, it's a standard wave. For all the times we pass each other, I often wonder how much you recognize me. For some reason, I can spot you pretty easily on the VF or VFR. Red and black textile jacket, white helmet. 'Course, often times it's too late since attention is on the idiot in front doing something stupid and I'm looking for a way to put them in my mirrors. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Yeah, that was me on the crapulent VF500. I think I waved perfunctorily. > > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 10:10:09 2003 Subject: RE: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 10:06:26 -0500 Well, if you see someone on an unmarked green/blue sportbike or on a red Harley with a spider riding the rear fender, and with a bright yellow mesh safety vest with orange reflective stripes, That's me. Carl On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 10:11, Michael Lynch wrote: > You tend to have the "How" type of wave anyway. If I recognize someone, > I'll point at them. Otherwise, it's a standard wave. For all the times we > pass each other, I often wonder how much you recognize me. For some reason, > I can spot you pretty easily on the VF or VFR. Red and black textile > jacket, white helmet. 'Course, often times it's too late since attention is > on the idiot in front doing something stupid and I'm looking for a way to > put them in my mirrors. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Wilson [SMTP:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > Yeah, that was me on the crapulent VF500. I think I waved perfunctorily. > > > > > > Paul in DC > > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 10:21:14 2003 Subject: Ride differences Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:22:15 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Anyone wish to share their knowledge on how different riding a 600cc R6 would compare to riding the R1? In general how different is the ride between 600cc and 1000cc sportbikes? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 10:33:13 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: list bugs? Content-ID: <27236.1071156779.1@XXXXXX> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:32:59 -0500 From: Harry Mantakos >Did anyone just miss just over 24 hours of dc-cycles? It was like I was >unsubbed for a day and a half or so.... The mail server at erols.com was bouncing list messages, e.g.: (reason: 554 SMTP service not available) This affected the handful of listers with erols.com addresses. It doesn't appear to be doing it any more. -harry From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 11:00:29 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Lynch" , Subject: Re: Morning Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 10:42:25 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lynch" For all the times we > pass each other, I often wonder how much you recognize me. For some reason, > I can spot you pretty easily on the VF or VFR. Red and black textile > jacket, white helmet. ... Simple, I just wave at everyone. :) I'm glad *someone* can see me. To many cagers I'm totally transparent. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 11:41:00 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:36:50 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 09:04 AM 12/11/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Not really, but I see your point that people would get sportbikes to go fast, >but most harleys are 1200 + cc right ? (except the 883cc, still a bigger >engine then my Honda V4, 748cc). The Sportsters come in 883 and 1200 cc sizes (last I looked...they did a lot of changes for '04, but I don't think the displacements went up). The Softails, Dynas and Road Kings are all 88 c.i. (1450 cc) in stock configuration (there are lots of ways to increase that if you want to spend more money). I'm not sure what the V-Rods are, but they are quick. One guy in the local group said his was still accelerating hard at 115 mph (he didn't say where this occurred... :^) If you get into custom bikes, S&S and some others make much larger and more powerful engines that can often be direct replacements for H-D designs. Biggest I've seen so far is the S&S anniversary engine, which was 145 c.i. (2376 cc), which has over twice (three times?) the HP and torque of the stock H-D motors, but I don't think that's going to be in regular production (though you never know... :^). It also requires a special frame, as it's taller than a stock H-D engine. >I have only riden my VFR and NT650 (Rebel >250 from MSF), but I bet that off the line a lot of those harley's are pretty >damn quick. I wouldn't say that. Mine shows up well against what I got from my Honda 700 Saber (698 cc), but not as well as you might expect from twice the displacement. On the other hand, riding two up the Honda was noticeably sluggish, while the Heritage doesn't seem to notice, and it is *far* more comfortable that way than the Honda (where a few miles was enough to cause serious pain from the cramped seating). My bike does what I want it to do, and it does it very well. Racing isn't something I want to do, so the fact that my bike would make a piss poor racer doesn't bother me a bit. If I decide that I need more power from it someday, there are lots of ways to get that, starting with the Stage I kit that H-D sells (new air cleaner and pipes and accompanying adjustments to the engine computer), which boosts things about 15 or so HP and about the same in ft/lb of torque for about $500 or so (number from memory, don't quote me on them, I haven't really investigated yet, and I'm just going from chats...Carl probably knows more specific details. ;^). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 11:51:09 2003 Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 11:47:31 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 11:36, Mike Bartman wrote: > If I decide that I need more power from it > someday, there are lots of ways to get that, starting with the Stage I kit > that H-D sells (new air cleaner and pipes and accompanying adjustments to > the engine computer), which boosts things about 15 or so HP and about the > same in ft/lb of torque for about $500 or so (number from memory, don't > quote me on them, I haven't really investigated yet, and I'm just going > from chats...Carl probably knows more specific details. ;^). > Stage 1 kit doesn't come with pipes. I had the stage one kit, SE II pipes and the 10k check all at the same time for almost $1,200. The pipes were $270 and the service is $450 leaving about $500 for the SE I kit (air cleaner and efi mods) > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 11:55:11 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:55:05 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: probably the last! test* of the ~archiver just user@XXXXXX testing the email@XXXXXX filters. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:00:18 2003 From: To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:00:06 -0500 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 11:36:50 EST > To: "Rob Sharp" , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit > > At 09:04 AM 12/11/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: > >Not really, but I see your point that people would get sportbikes to go fast, > >but most harleys are 1200 + cc right ? (except the 883cc, still a bigger > >engine then my Honda V4, 748cc). > > The Sportsters come in 883 and 1200 cc sizes (last I looked...they did a > lot of changes for '04, but I don't think the displacements went up). ....still 883, 1200 and 1450's except for the Screaming Eagle special edition bikes that run 103ci instead of the standard 88ci. > The > Softails, Dynas and Road Kings are all 88 c.i. (1450 cc) in stock > configuration (there are lots of ways to increase that if you want to spend > more money). I'm not sure what the V-Rods are, but they are quick. One > guy in the local group said his was still accelerating hard at 115 mph (he > didn't say where this occurred... :^) ...V-Rods are liquid cooled 1100cc bikes. > > If you get into custom bikes, S&S and some others make much larger and more > powerful engines that can often be direct replacements for H-D designs. > Biggest I've seen so far is the S&S anniversary engine, which was 145 c.i. > (2376 cc), which has over twice (three times?) the HP and torque of the > stock H-D motors, but I don't think that's going to be in regular > production (though you never know... :^). It also requires a special > frame, as it's taller than a stock H-D engine. ...there's tons of companies that either make mods to the stock TC88 or complete replacements like you mentioned. Open any off the shelf Harley oriented biker rag and you'll see literally dozens of advertisements on different motors. > > >I have only riden my VFR and NT650 (Rebel > >250 from MSF), but I bet that off the line a lot of those harley's are pretty > >damn quick. > > I wouldn't say that. Mine shows up well against what I got from my Honda > 700 Saber (698 cc), but not as well as you might expect from twice the > displacement. On the other hand, riding two up the Honda was noticeably > sluggish, while the Heritage doesn't seem to notice, and it is *far* more > comfortable that way than the Honda (where a few miles was enough to cause > serious pain from the cramped seating). > > My bike does what I want it to do, and it does it very well. Racing isn't > something I want to do, so the fact that my bike would make a piss poor > racer doesn't bother me a bit. If I decide that I need more power from it > someday, there are lots of ways to get that, starting with the Stage I kit > that H-D sells (new air cleaner and pipes and accompanying adjustments to > the engine computer), which boosts things about 15 or so HP and about the > same in ft/lb of torque for about $500 or so (number from memory, don't > quote me on them, I haven't really investigated yet, and I'm just going > from chats...Carl probably knows more specific details. ;^). > DON'T waste your money getting a stage I kit from the dealer. It only consists of a freer flowing a/c, pipes of your choice and a remap of your FI (or rejetting if you have carbs like mine). Buy the a/c, choose your pipes and then take it to a reputable shop to have them install it (or install it yourself and then just take it to get retuned). You'll save a ton of money doing it that way. Personally, I haven't found an HD dealer yet that has competent mechanics. Want chrome doo dads installed? No problem, everything else, learn how to do it yourself or take it to a good shop. Thunder Cycles in Chantilly is probably one of the best around. cheers, -aki > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:00:36 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:59:12 -0500 From: Skip To: ALL OUT RACING CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Smart Tag ALL OUT RACING wrote: > > UNSUBSCRIBE! no, thank you. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:05:33 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:05:16 -0500 Good gawd Carl, the 10k check takes about 20min to do yourself. The SE II pipes are about $350. The a/c kit is about $100. The EFI mod (unless you bought a power commander) is a 15 min job on a laptop. The 10k is replacing fluids and adjustments/checks. If you haven't already bought a maintenance manual, I'd suggest it. It outlines every step of every maintenance interval. If nothing else, do all you can and then take the bike in just to do the remainder. -aki > > From: Carl Schelin > Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 11:47:31 EST > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 11:36, Mike Bartman wrote: > > If I decide that I need more power from it > > someday, there are lots of ways to get that, starting with the Stage I kit > > that H-D sells (new air cleaner and pipes and accompanying adjustments to > > the engine computer), which boosts things about 15 or so HP and about the > > same in ft/lb of torque for about $500 or so (number from memory, don't > > quote me on them, I haven't really investigated yet, and I'm just going > > from chats...Carl probably knows more specific details. ;^). > > > > Stage 1 kit doesn't come with pipes. I had the stage one kit, SE II > pipes and the 10k check all at the same time for almost $1,200. The > pipes were $270 and the service is $450 leaving about $500 for the SE I > kit (air cleaner and efi mods) > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Carl > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:15:03 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:13:56 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning Paul Wilson wrote: [snip] > Yeah, traffic was great today. 18 minutes door-to-door. WTF? Traffic was hell on the ffx co pkwy from sterling to herndon this morning. dead stopped at the first light, and solid to the horizon. very unusual, so I bailed and took the scenic route. only had to ford one stream across the road -- about 6" deep. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:18:39 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:17:33 -0500 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ride differences Julian Halton wrote: > > > Anyone wish to share their knowledge on how different riding a 600cc R6 > would compare to riding the R1? In general how different is the ride > between 600cc and 1000cc sportbikes? if you could call anything about an R6 forgiving, the R1 is much less so. a healthy dose of right hand on a litre sport bike will change your life, if applied incorrectly. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:42:03 2003 Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 12:38:25 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 12:05, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > Good gawd Carl, the 10k check takes about 20min to do yourself. The > SE II pipes are about $350. The a/c kit is about $100. The EFI mod > (unless you bought a power commander) is a 15 min job on a laptop. > Yep, I know. I've done various things on the bikes before. Don't forget, that was last December. There are a few tools I don't have just yet and since I stripped the heads on the bolts last time, I'm also a bit tentative about some of the fluids. It won't be long before I have everything I need and will do all the work myself. Oh, and the SE I slip-ons are 299, the SE II slip-ons are 279. > The 10k is replacing fluids and adjustments/checks. > > If you haven't already bought a maintenance manual, I'd suggest it. I got the manual when I got the bike. I have service manuals for all four bikes. I happily break out the wrenches for the Suzuki and the old Honda. The new Honda and Harley I'm a bit more careful of and want a little more experience before tackling them again. > It outlines every step of every maintenance > interval. If nothing else, do all you can and then take the bike > in just to do the remainder. > > -aki Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:51:01 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:48:26 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 11:47 AM 12/11/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >Stage 1 kit doesn't come with pipes. I had the stage one kit, SE II >pipes and the 10k check all at the same time for almost $1,200. The >pipes were $270 and the service is $450 leaving about $500 for the SE I >kit (air cleaner and efi mods) Really? Seems weird that they'd play with the gzinta without playing with the gzoutta too. Ok, just checked the catalogue. It lists "H-D Touring Mufflers" under the components for the Stage I kit, but only for carburetted models. Don't know if that means the stock pipes or not. For EFI models the Stage I kit is, as you say, just air cleaner and ECM adjustments. Cost is shown as $289.90 (without labor). This increases peak HP from about 58 to 70 (5500 RPM), max torque from 70 ft/lb at 3500 RPM to 80 ft/lb at 4000 RPM. It also raises the rev limiter to 6200 RPM. It's shown as street legal in all states (when used with stock mufflers) and, if installed by a dealer, has no effect on the limited warranty. Can't imagine that it would take more than an hour to install (looking at the parts kit), so labor should be something on the order of $75 or so. Toss in the usual "shop supplies" and taxes, and you still at least $100 shy of our $500 mark back on the street. Are you sure that's what it cost you? I think I'll inquire later today. Taking mine in for the 1000 mile checkup, and a fix to the gas gauge (warranty...most likely a slight bend in the float arm... ;^). -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 12:57:21 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 12:58:13 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 12:38 PM 12/11/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >> If you haven't already bought a maintenance manual, I'd suggest it. > >I got the manual when I got the bike. I have service manuals for all >four bikes. I happily break out the wrenches for the Suzuki and the old >Honda. The new Honda and Harley I'm a bit more careful of and want a >little more experience before tackling them again. Sounds like a smart plan. At the HOG maintenance seminar that Battley's held last month they were surprisingly encouraging of people doing a lot of maintenance work themselves, both to save money and to learn more about the bike, if you were so inclined. They even handed out the checklist they use for 2500 and 5000 mile checkups. They did however, suggest that you realistically assess your own limitations, both in terms of knowledge and equipment. One example was a guy who called asking how to remove a broken-off engine bolt. They suggested he put down the tools and bring it in. If you are inept enough to break off a good bolt, and you don't have a clue how to remove it, you are probably already in over your head and should stop before you make it even worse. There was an under-the-breath comment following that suggestion about not wanting to have to work on *another* bike with an easy-out broken off in it... :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 13:28:43 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:28:33 -0500 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Morning X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 2,000,000 but, as Drew Carey says on "Whose Line Is It?" "The points don't matter." ;-) Scooter In a message dated 12/11/2003 9:47:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > Cool. How many points for a lister sighting ;-) > > Carl > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:51, Michael Lynch wrote: > > Yeh, sounds about right, a little after that I switched over to between left > > and center lanes. Only got one beep today, from a pickup. They get a > > backwards facing open-close hand wave (like little kids do) as if to say, > > "buh bye!" > > > > Paul and I passed each other on the parkway just above the airport, too. > > > > Mike > > 98 XR400 > > 96 VFR > > 76 CB400F > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:30 AM > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: RE: Morning > > > > > > Time is right. Don't recall the helmet and couldn't see the bike. All I > > > saw was the torso up. I was on the ramp from HOV and he was filtering > > > between the right and center lanes just about at the Maine Ave offramp. > > > It was just before the big red truck to the hill down to the first > > > light. > > > > > > Carl > > > > > > On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 09:26, Michael Lynch wrote: > > > > Morning. Silver helmet? Red bike? 8:35ish? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > 98 XR400 > > > > 96 VFR > > > > 76 CB400F > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Carl Schelin [SMTP:cschelin@XXXXXX] > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:08 AM > > > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > > > Subject: Morning > > > > > > > > > > Morning. > > > > > > > > > > Saw a BMW on the side of the road. I wasn't in position to be able > > > to > > > > > get out of the pack of cars and check. Sorry about that if you're > > > here. > > > > > > > > > > As I got on to 14th street past the bridge, I could see up ahead > > > > > someone filtering. All I could see was that he had a black outfit. In > > > > > the wind this morning I wouldn't think it was such a good idea (just > > > my > > > > > opinion). > > > > > > > > > > Nice ride though. Light traffic and a few cops. I guess the > > > > > enforcement run a couple of days ago got the > scofflaws off the road > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > Carl > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 13:30:15 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 13:30:07 -0500 > > > > Good gawd Carl, the 10k check takes about 20min to do yourself. The > > SE II pipes are about $350. The a/c kit is about $100. The EFI mod > > (unless you bought a power commander) is a 15 min job on a laptop. > > > > Yep, I know. I've done various things on the bikes before. Don't forget, > that was last December. ah ok... > > There are a few tools I don't have just yet and since I stripped the > heads on the bolts last time, I'm also a bit tentative about some of the > fluids. It won't be long before I have everything I need and will do all > the work myself. ..first thing to do (if you haven't already done so) is to replace the torx head bolts to the derby cover and inspection plates with hex head bolts. Patriot sells them. They're the same ones that goes on a Sporty. I think the complete replacement set was around $20. The torx head bolts are a mother to remove without an impact wrench and are easilly stripped. > > Oh, and the SE I slip-ons are 299, the SE II slip-ons are 279. ..ballpark...it's been a while since I got my SEII's. > > > The 10k is replacing fluids and adjustments/checks. > > > > If you haven't already bought a maintenance manual, I'd suggest it. > > I got the manual when I got the bike. I have service manuals for all > four bikes. I happily break out the wrenches for the Suzuki and the old > Honda. The new Honda and Harley I'm a bit more careful of and want a > little more experience before tackling them again. ..I've pretty much done most of my own wrenching on the other bikes I've owned (all Japanese)..and this Harley is a LOT easier to work on IMHO. Their maintenance manuals are also much better laid out than the Clymers manuals I've had to use for my other bikes. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:12:30 2003 Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:08:52 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 12:48, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 11:47 AM 12/11/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Stage 1 kit doesn't come with pipes. I had the stage one kit, SE II > >pipes and the 10k check all at the same time for almost $1,200. The > >pipes were $270 and the service is $450 leaving about $500 for the SE I > >kit (air cleaner and efi mods) > > Really? Seems weird that they'd play with the gzinta without playing with > the gzoutta too. > Can't imagine that it would take more than an hour to install (looking at > the parts kit), so labor should be something on the order of $75 or so. > Toss in the usual "shop supplies" and taxes, and you still at least $100 > shy of our $500 mark back on the street. Are you sure that's what it cost > you? I'll have to check my receipts when I get home. I know I was expecting something on the order of 900 when I picked up the bike and was a little surprised at the 1100+ price tag. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:14:43 2003 Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:11:06 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 12:58, Mike Bartman wrote: > One example was a guy who called asking how to remove a broken-off engine > bolt. They suggested he put down the tools and bring it in. If you are > inept enough to break off a good bolt, and you don't have a clue how to > remove it, you are probably already in over your head and should stop > before you make it even worse. There was an under-the-breath comment > following that suggestion about not wanting to have to work on *another* > bike with an easy-out broken off in it... :^) > Yea, I used a T25 on the T27 bolt and stripped the head. I broke several T27's trying to get it back out and even tried the dremel to make a slot and an easy-out. I called the local shop to get it drilled out but sold it before I got to it. > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:19:32 2003 Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:15:55 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 13:30, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > There are a few tools I don't have just yet and since I stripped the > > heads on the bolts last time, I'm also a bit tentative about some of the > > fluids. It won't be long before I have everything I need and will do all > > the work myself. > > ...first thing to do (if you haven't already done so) is to replace the > torx head bolts to the derby cover and inspection plates with hex head > bolts. Patriot sells them. They're the same ones that goes on a Sporty. No problems with them yet, with the right tool :-) > I think the complete replacement set was around $20. The torx head > bolts are a mother to remove without an impact wrench and are easilly > stripped. > I just bought an impact screwdriver and still need an "inch lb" torque wrench. I'm asking for a Craftsman that I spotted on the sears website (unless of course someone has other ideas :-) > > > > > Oh, and the SE I slip-ons are 299, the SE II slip-ons are 279. > > > ...ballpark...it's been a while since I got my SEII's. > No problem. I remember the prices because I asked for the quieter SE I slip-ons but they put on SE II pipes instead. When I checked, the guy said that the SE II's are cheaper and in stock. The few people who've installed SE I's have come back to get SE II's. > > > > > The 10k is replacing fluids and adjustments/checks. > > > > > > If you haven't already bought a maintenance manual, I'd suggest it. > > > > I got the manual when I got the bike. I have service manuals for all > > four bikes. I happily break out the wrenches for the Suzuki and the old > > Honda. The new Honda and Harley I'm a bit more careful of and want a > > little more experience before tackling them again. > > > ...I've pretty much done most of my own wrenching on the other bikes I've > owned (all Japanese)..and this Harley is a LOT easier to work on IMHO. > Their maintenance manuals are also much better laid out than the Clymers > manuals I've had to use for > my other bikes. > Yea, I'm using a Clymer's for working on the '76 Honda. > > > -aki > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:25:07 2003 Subject: Ride differences- Valuable info Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:26:09 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Julian Halton" Cc: HOME LANGUAGE YOUR OPINION MY BIKE ARCHIVE INFO YAMAHA NEWS: R1 2004 FZ6 FAZER XT 660 R & X MT 03 YZ 2004 MODELS BW 2004 WR 450 F 2-Trac DISCUSSION FORUM ABOUT: Please select! BT 1100 (7/2001) BT 1100 (3/2002) BW'S 2004 (10/2003) FJR 1300 (9/2000) FJR 1300 (2/2001) FJR 1300 (8/2001) FJR 1300 (9/2002) FZ 6 (9/2003) FZR 1000 (2/2003) FZS 1000 (2/2001) Maxster 125 (12/2000) MT-03 (9/2003) R1 (2/2000) R1 (4/2001) R1 (7/2001) R1 (9/2001) R1 (3/2002) R1 (9/2003) R6 (9/2002) SR 500 (3/2003) TDM 850 (9/2000) TDM 900 (2/2002) Tmax (9/2000) Tmax (9/2001) Tricker (12/2001) V-max (3/2001) Warrior (10/2001) XJR 1300 (11/2001) XT 500 (3/2003) XT 660 R&X (9/2003) VP 300 (9/2002) YZ 2004 (6/2003) YZ 450 F (6/2002) YZF 250 (3/2001) YZF 426 (3/2001) Warrior (9/2002) WR450F 2-T (12/2002) STAY TUNED TELL A FRIEND MAKE HOMEPAGE YOU ARE VIEWING: HOME: ARCHIVE: SUPERSPORT: R1 and R6 - the top class machines Supersport R1 R6 R1 and R6 are Yamaha top class supersport machines. One could think, the 600 cc is just a smaller version of the 1000 cc version. That's wrong! Both bikes are entirely different! Engine, chassis and riding style of both R1 and R6 are targeted for different use. Kunihiko Miwa, the man behind R1 and R6 explains the differences. Mr. "NO COMPROMISE" Kunihiko Miwa was project leader for Yamaha R series. He loves sportbikes and hates half hearted technical solutions. Without taking a closer look to Yamaha's 600 and 1000 supersports bikes, you may think they are pretty much the same. One is just a smaller version of the other one. WRONG! Completely wrong.... Now you would straight away ask the question: Why does Yamaha not use common parts on both machines? It would certainly be cheaper and cost less development time. Kunihiko Miwa, who was responsible for both the R1 and the R6 as project leader, always shakes his head, when people bring up such subjects. Says Miwa: " If you want to build a perfect Super sport machine, you can not make faulty compromises. A 600 cc machine has to have a different character than a 1000cc bike. Naturally, weight, physical size and engine character will be different. If you try to use a 1000 chassis for example, you would automatically weaken certain advantages of a 600 cc." R1 and R6 require different riding style: chassis layout and power delivery result in different cornering methods Miwa goes on in his explanation: "When we developed both bikes, our target was 'EXCITEMENT'. Of course there are many variations of EXCITEMENT for motorcycle riders. For Super sport this certainly means hard riding and exploration of the bike's potential. The rider should be able to feel: When I do this or that, I can take the corner in the best possible way. I mean, it is not about absolute speed, but more about the feeling for this interactive response between the bike and the rider. It should be like a good conversation from man to machine and vice versa. This gives EXCITEMENT and satisfaction. So both R1 and R6 are targeted towards rider control on every type of twisty road, and not to just ride with high speed." To achieve this target, the engineers had to make the bike as light as possible and at the same time take care of the best balance between powerful engine and controllability. Both bikes were never aimed at just high speed or high engine performance alone. In order to give both machine a pure Super sports character some practical items had to be sacrificed. For example tandem riding, storage space or wind protection etc. Now let's talk about the differences of R1 and R6. Miwa : "R1 is all about 'How to control the brutal power'. When you ride the bike with 70-80% of it's performance potential, you feel a lot of fun. In a way it is quite suitable also for twisty public roads due to a good handling character. However, if you try to exploit the bikes full potential, you have to be more than 100% alert to control it." This demonstration shows the different "ideal" lines of both bikes. Just click on the icons to run the animation. R6: control of performance & chassis R6: high rpm require smooth cornering line. The R6 is all about: ' Control of performance and chassis '. A 600 cc Super sport is a perfect balance between engine performance and riding character. It is more relaxing to enjoy the full potential of R6, since the bike's behavior is different to R1. One of the most attractive features obviously is the engine character: There is no sudden slip on the rear wheel, because the high rpm level gives a smooth power delivery. This has advantages, when cornering and realizing that you need to change your line. You can stabilize the R6 even during banking with the throttle open and you do not risk a sudden tail slide. R1: control the raw power R1: the 1000 cc high power engine requires a short cornering line, to flip upright fairly soon and to allow hard acceleration. If you turn the throttle too sudden on an R1 you create an instant enormous power delivery to the rear wheel." And indeed, not may parts are in common between R6 and R1. Let's take the chassis: Both have a Deltabox aluminum structure, but both with different layout. The R1 uses the engine block as a stressed member, but still part of the strength of its chassis is given by the lateral box type structure. The R6 however uses the engine as major element to connect the head stock with the swing arm pivot. It is a matter of weight versus speed and performance, which requires a stiffer chassis connection for R1. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chassis The advantage of R6 chassis layout however: lighter weight and slim shape around the tank area. Even with the weight difference of "only" 7.5 kg (175 versus 167.5 kg dry weight) the R1 needs comparatively more force from it's rider to direct it around corners. This is a result of total chassis layout including rider position and weight distribution. Together with a caster angle of both 24)B°, the R6 has only 81 mm trail & 1380 mm wheel base and R1 92 mm trail & 1395 mm wheel base. These figures are expressing the technical background for the different handling character also. R6: ultra compact frame layout R1:ultra ridged frame layout Miwa: "So it becomes obvious when taking a closer look, that the R6 and the R1 are bikes for different riding style and the enthusiast should make up his mind depending on what he prefers." The R 1 needs certainly more alertness and careful operation than the R6 on twisty roads or circuits." Hennes Fischer, Yamaha product planning consultant openly says:" I had tracks, where I was faster and felt safer with the R6. The R1 requires lots of constant attention. If you ride on very twisty circuits, I need too much attention to control the power of the R1. The R6 simply gives me more room to concentrate on my line. Of course still the R1 is 100% adrenaline, when opening the throttle. In the end you have to decide your personal priorities. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Engine R6 engine: needs high rpm R1 engine: power even at low rpm When taking a closer look to both engines, you realize what Mr. Miwa means with different character. It is lesser the top performance of 120 HP versus 150 HP. The torque curve is entirely different, as you can see in the illustration of cornering method. The R 6 needs much higher rpm, where the R1 delivers already enormous power from 2000 rpm onwards. Of course this "power from below" makes riding very relaxed in a way, that you don't need to shift a lot and in almost every situation there is enough forward thrust. Miwa: " R1 and R6 of course have a similar image, but in fact they have quite a different character. Both development teams worked independent and tried to make the best supersport machine in the category." From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:28:33 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:28:23 -0500 > > I just bought an impact screwdriver and still need an "inch lb" torque > wrench. I'm asking for a Craftsman that I spotted on the sears website > (unless of course someone has other ideas :-) Harbor Freight just opened a store in the area. (hint hint) > > > > > > > > > Oh, and the SE I slip-ons are 299, the SE II slip-ons are 279. > > > > > > ...ballpark...it's been a while since I got my SEII's. > > > > No problem. I remember the prices because I asked for the quieter SE I > slip-ons but they put on SE II pipes instead. When I checked, the guy > said that the SE II's are cheaper and in stock. The few people who've > installed SE I's have come back to get SE II's. the SEI's were made by Cycle Shack and are are noticably louder. HD doesn't even sell SEI's anymore. They must of been leftover stock items at your dealer. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:34:04 2003 Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 14:30:26 -0500 On Thu, 2003-12-11 at 14:28, adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > I just bought an impact screwdriver and still need an "inch lb" torque > > wrench. I'm asking for a Craftsman that I spotted on the sears website > > (unless of course someone has other ideas :-) > > > Harbor Freight just opened a store in the area. (hint hint) I'll check them out. I recall the e-mail. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and the SE I slip-ons are 299, the SE II slip-ons are 279. > > > > > > > > > ...ballpark...it's been a while since I got my SEII's. > > > > > > > No problem. I remember the prices because I asked for the quieter SE I > > slip-ons but they put on SE II pipes instead. When I checked, the guy > > said that the SE II's are cheaper and in stock. The few people who've > > installed SE I's have come back to get SE II's. > > the SEI's were made by Cycle Shack and are are noticably louder. HD > doesn't even sell SEI's anymore. They must of been leftover stock items > at your dealer. > Hmm per the parts guy they weren't very much louder than stock. Are you sure you don't mean the SE II's? They're quite loud. >From what I infered, I believe they didn't have any SE I's in stock but they did have SE II's. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:43:05 2003 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:42:50 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit At 02:15 PM 12/11/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >I just bought an impact screwdriver and still need an "inch lb" torque >wrench. I'm asking for a Craftsman that I spotted on the sears website >(unless of course someone has other ideas :-) I got the Sears one at Lakeforest Mall (Montgomery Mall (or whatever they're call it this week) didn't have it). Works very well as far as I can tell. About $65 I think. Already had a ft/lb one from the distant past. Probably should check the calibration on that one...and maybe the new one, just to be sure. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:45:40 2003 From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Carl Schelin'" , Subject: RE: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:45:29 -0500 I wouldn't buy a torque wrench from harbor freight. Most of their tools are of pretty cheap quality. There is a place and time for cheaper tools, but a torque wrench that you can use for the rest of you life isn't one of them IMHO. -Jim > > Harbor Freight just opened a store in the area. (hint hint) I'll check them out. I recall the e-mail. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 14:48:11 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 14:48:02 -0500 > > Hmm per the parts guy they weren't very much louder than stock. Are you > sure you don't mean the SE II's? They're quite loud. nope..the SEII's replaced the SEI's and the SEI's are definately louder than the SEII's. I have a friend that had a pair on his WG and it was most definately louder than the SEII's. If you punched out the baffles on the SEII's, they would sound like the SEI's. > > >From what I infered, I believe they didn't have any SE I's in stock but > they did have SE II's. I believe they stopped stocking/selling SEI's about 3 years ago or right around the time the SEII's came out. -aki > > Carl > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 15:27:26 2003 Subject: Yet again From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 11 Dec 2003 15:23:49 -0500 Ok, I just called East Coast to get a status. Chris checked the sheet and said that (coincidentally) the parts have arrived. I pressured him on why it took so long to get the parts and why the Check Valve Assembly instead of the Security & Turn Signal Module. He put me on hold for a couple of minutes while he checked it out. Apparently they fixed the security module over a week ago (remember, I called last week and they said they had ordered a CVA). When they were QA'ing the bike, they heard the pressurizing of the fuel system and decided to replace the Check Valve Assembly. I told him that I think they need to work on a couple of things. 1. Update the tickets with full information so I don't have to call and pull teeth to find out what's up. 2. Call me when something's changed. He said that "they were known for calling back". I laughed and said that I've been taking this bike to East Coast for over a year and they do not call back. In fact I was surprised two weeks ago when they called me to tell me it was the Security etc Module. He hemmed for a sec, caught off guard. "Well, I just started here less than a month ago". .oo(Oh, so you're known for calling back and you just got here.) I asked about the tech and he seems to be out today; class or something. I told him that I hope my bike is done in a day or two. Perhaps it _is_ time for a letter. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 15:57:59 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Ride differences Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:57:50 -0500 > From: "Julian Halton" > > Anyone wish to share their knowledge on how different riding a 600cc R6 > would compare to riding the R1? In general how different is the ride > between 600cc and 1000cc sportbikes? For an inexperienced rider, the difference between Mr. Toads Wild Ride and a balls to the wall roller coaster. Or maybe the difference between life and death. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 16:39:53 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yet again Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 16:39:43 -0500 > > Perhaps it _is_ time for a letter. > or a different dealer. Didn't we have a list member that started working over at Whitts? -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 21:25:44 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Anyone own? Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:24:32 -0500 Anyone own a red Suzuki Bandit S that I saw at American University. I drive a Bethesda Florist cage and probably see you guys around DC and Mont. Co all the time. To bad you can't deliver from a cycle, I would have a lot of miles on my bike now. Scott From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 11 23:52:23 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yet again Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:52:22 -0500 Is this a Harley dealer? Most car dealers are HIGHLY assessed on their CSI (customer service index). I just bought a new S10 and I have gotten 2 surveys already. Just about everyother time I took my old trunk in for service I got a survey. I could understand a small shop pulling this crap on you, but a dealer should be much more responsible to their customers. I guess when you have people banging down your door for your bikes you don't need to care about customer service :-\ Rob On 11 Dec 2003 15:23:49 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote > Ok, I just called East Coast to get a status. Chris checked the sheet > and said that (coincidentally) the parts have arrived. > > I pressured him on why it took so long to get the parts and why the > Check Valve Assembly instead of the Security & Turn Signal Module. > > He put me on hold for a couple of minutes while he checked it out. > > Apparently they fixed the security module over a week ago (remember, > I called last week and they said they had ordered a CVA). When they were > QA'ing the bike, they heard the pressurizing of the fuel system and > decided to replace the Check Valve Assembly. > > I told him that I think they need to work on a couple of things. > > 1. Update the tickets with full information so I don't have to call and > pull teeth to find out what's up. > > 2. Call me when something's changed. > > He said that "they were known for calling back". > > I laughed and said that I've been taking this bike to East Coast for > over a year and they do not call back. In fact I was surprised two weeks > ago when they called me to tell me it was the Security etc Module. > > He hemmed for a sec, caught off guard. "Well, I just started here > less than a month ago". > > .oo(Oh, so you're known for calling back and you just got here.) > > I asked about the tech and he seems to be out today; class or something. > > I told him that I hope my bike is done in a day or two. > > Perhaps it _is_ time for a letter. > > Carl -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 08:28:42 2003 From: "Custer, Carl" To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: Happy Face Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:33:19 -0500 Passed a BMW brick this morning on Independence Ave. Temperature was about 35F/2C. The driver didn't have a happy face, brrr; he was wearing an open face helmet and his face was exposed. I was warm and snug behind a strip of Polartec Windbloc. I own both Turtle Fur and REI neck gaiters but, for the past two winters the Windbloc has kept my neck and chin warm and happy. G Street Fabrics (& other shoppes) have Malden Mills Polartec Windbloc for ~ $18 a yard. Buy a half yard of the Windbloc along with some Velcro and fabric glue. Measure yer neck - chin girth. The piece I use is ~ 9 inches wide by 24 inches (23 X 60 cm). Snip out an appropriately sized piece. Apply a 2-3 inch strip of Velcro, parallel with the length of the strip, using the fabric glue so you can fasten it around your neck & chin (the Velcro should be at least a cm inside the margins cuz it's scratchy stuff.) wait 24 hours. The Windbloc is really good stuff so, if you wear it over your nose, your breath will fog up your eyeballs. You can either cut a silt for your nostrils or use a leather punch to poke holes for your fog machine. You'll have enough Windbloc for three more happy chin strips. You could throw a happy chin party 8^D. Carl in Bethesda From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 08:54:55 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:54:49 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "'DCCycles'" , "Custer, Carl" Subject: Re: Happy Face Thanks, Carl, that's great. The ready-made Windbloc neck gaiters I've found just weren't big enough to be easy & comfortable turning my head. Your solution is practical ... and cheap :-) thanks, Chris Norloff (who rides behind a windscreen most times, but would still like a warmer chin) ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Custer, Carl" Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:33:19 -0500 >Passed a BMW brick this morning on Independence Ave. Temperature was about >35F/2C. >The driver didn't have a happy face, brrr; he was wearing an open face >helmet and his face was exposed. >I was warm and snug behind a strip of Polartec Windbloc. >I own both Turtle Fur and REI neck gaiters but, for the past two winters the >Windbloc has kept my neck and chin warm and happy. > > G Street Fabrics (& other shoppes) have Malden Mills >Polartec Windbloc for ~ $18 a yard. >Buy a half yard of the Windbloc along with some Velcro and fabric glue. >Measure yer neck - chin girth. The piece I use is ~ 9 inches wide by 24 >inches (23 X 60 cm). >Snip out an appropriately sized piece. Apply a 2-3 inch strip of Velcro, >parallel with the length of the strip, using the fabric glue so you can >fasten it around your neck & chin (the Velcro should be at least a cm inside >the margins cuz it's scratchy stuff.) wait 24 hours. > >The Windbloc is really good stuff so, if you wear it over your nose, your >breath will fog up your eyeballs. You can either cut a silt for your >nostrils or use a leather punch to poke holes for your fog machine. > >You'll have enough Windbloc for three more happy chin strips. You could >throw a happy chin party 8^D. > >Carl in Bethesda > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:04:41 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Yet again Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:04:05 -0500 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7979b5c073605f3116641049b1c08f7606350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Is this a Harley dealer? Most car dealers are HIGHLY assessed on their CSI > (customer service index). I just bought a new S10 and I have gotten 2 surveys > already. Just about everyother time I took my old trunk in for service I got > a survey. I could understand a small shop pulling this crap on you, but a > dealer should be much more responsible to their customers. I guess when you > have people banging down your door for your bikes you don't need to care about > customer service :-\ [Dave] Bingo. There's almost no motivation to do anything customer service related with that kind of product demand... Pretty ironic actually... I should point out that I've noticed this with other marques as well. As with any repair situation, once the job either loses any resemblence to profitability, or any chance of a positive resolution, the shop will generally "back burner" it in favor of fixing things which more and other customers will be happy about. And I've never gotten any sort of follow up to a negative comment on one of those surveys... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:11:53 2003 Subject: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:12:58 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DCCycles" Oh..what a beautiful Fall evening last night. Let me take that trip down the 66, 'cross the Key bridge and onto Canal Road and visit my family for dinner. For dessert and conveniently just a few blocks away, an interesting friend that just got out of a ten year marriage and is trying to make up for lost time. As I pull into my parents and mindful of the wind, I humbly request to place the bike in the garage. Going over the substantial lip, I stall once but think nothing of it, re-start the bike and walk in to a warm house expecting a feast. Let's cut to me standing in a half-lit garage an hour later, my father waiting impatiently to put his car in its accustomed place. The Key is in my 2002 Yamaha R6 with 5400 miles on it. The key is in the on position. The familiar sound of the fuel pump engaging is not heard, there are no clicking sounds and absolutely no lights. Turn it off. Wait. Try and start. No Luck! Check to see the bike is in neutral. No power. Get on the bike, put the kickstand up and turn the key no luck. Take a look-see at the bike, not knowing where the battery is, I check any visible connections. Please help. I need to get the bike started. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:20:27 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:20:27 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Julian Halton" , "DCCycles" Just a train-of-thought response, but similar to what I went through a few mornings ago... No power, so either a major fuse gone or battery dead. Check fuse, it's good (also, power did allow re-start earlier). Battery acid levels okay? Might have dried out some cells... Jump start? (Note: works best when donor car is NOT running... ;-^) Totally dead, no lights, makes me suspect either a battery connection is loose/corroded, or the fuse to the ignition is toast. Batteries can fail in a short period of time, but seems unlikely here. - Robert -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:13 AM To: DCCycles Subject: 911 Biker needs Assistance Oh..what a beautiful Fall evening last night. Let me take that trip down the 66, 'cross the Key bridge and onto Canal Road and visit my family for dinner. For dessert and conveniently just a few blocks away, an interesting friend that just got out of a ten year marriage and is trying to make up for lost time. As I pull into my parents and mindful of the wind, I humbly request to place the bike in the garage. Going over the substantial lip, I stall once but think nothing of it, re-start the bike and walk in to a warm house expecting a feast. Let's cut to me standing in a half-lit garage an hour later, my father waiting impatiently to put his car in its accustomed place. The Key is in my 2002 Yamaha R6 with 5400 miles on it. The key is in the on position. The familiar sound of the fuel pump engaging is not heard, there are no clicking sounds and absolutely no lights. Turn it off. Wait. Try and start. No Luck! Check to see the bike is in neutral. No power. Get on the bike, put the kickstand up and turn the key no luck. Take a look-see at the bike, not knowing where the battery is, I check any visible connections. Please help. I need to get the bike started. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:27:15 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:27:00 EST Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/11/2003 12:42:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > I got the manual when I got the bike. The new Honda and Harley I'm a bit more careful of and want a > little more experience before tackling them again. Even if you never use a service manual to work on a bike yourself they are worthwhile for confirming the diagnosis of a mechanic. Mechanic "your framistat is throckeled." You say "show me here in my service manual." If he/she cannot show you, go elsewhere you are likely being screwed (and not in a nice way.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:27:35 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:28:41 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" The 2002 owner manual explains that the battery is of a sealed type and should only be charged with a special charging device. I am going to have to remove the rider seat and check connections\fuses. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:28:28 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Constant voltage charger is the term used. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:35:15 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:35:01 EST Subject: Re: SportVue heads-up display unit To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/11/2003 12:58:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > They suggested he put down the tools and bring it in. If you are > inept enough to break off a good bolt, and you don't have a clue how to > remove it, you are probably already in over your head True Somewhere around here I still have a shop manual with two _pages,_ single spaced, listing the mistakes made by a shade tree "mechanic" who "fixed" his own Honda 750 Interceptor And I MEAN shade tree, one of the items listed is that the engine was full of grass clippings from a too close pass from a lawn mower....... Some people have no idea of their own limitations. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:45:54 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:45:43 EST Subject: Re: Yet again To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/11/2003 11:52:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, rob@XXXXXX writes: > Most car dealers are HIGHLY assessed on their CSI > (customer service index). I just bought a new S10 and I have gotten 2 > surveys > already. Paper is cheap. Not that I am a cynic or anything...... (I do know how useful (NOT!) all of the student evaluations we did in college were.) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 09:56:18 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:57:24 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Rob Keiser" , Will this start a battery dead bike? -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:55 AM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 Constant voltage charger is the term used. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:03:28 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:03:19 EST Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/12/2003 9:27:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > should only be charged with a special charging device. I am inclined to say something like, oh lets see, BULLSHIT! Low amperage _very_ low amperage (cheap) charger, or better yet a Battery Tender. But that dont fix todays problem. Try bump starting it. If you have an exited field charging system it may not work, but it is still worth a try. NOTE: even if it works you will _need_,_need_,_need to charge your battery fully when you get home, the bikes system will not do it unless you live in California. Then one way or the other get yourself a Battery Tender your mileage is not high enough to keep the battery up anyhow. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:05:48 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:05:39 EST Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/12/2003 9:56:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Or sit on bike holding clutch in and have someone else push. Safer, and easier, if you have help. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:06:27 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:54:48 -0500 If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 Constant voltage charger is the term used. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:21:20 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: julian@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:21:12 -0500 It should. At least get it started so you can ride it home, or around town to charge it up. Further battery tending will need to be done later. From: "Julian Halton" To: "Rob Keiser" , Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:57:24 -0500 Will this start a battery dead bike? -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:55 AM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 Constant voltage charger is the term used. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 _________________________________________________________________ Don)B’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:21:37 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:21:28 -0500 From: "Verde, Robert" To: , If none of these tips work for you, I am going to be near there tonight (I live in Arlington), I can stop by and lend another pair of hands to the effort. If nothing else, I can help push the bike... (Wait, how much did you say you weighed? ;-^) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:55 AM To: julian@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 Constant voltage charger is the term used. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:24:54 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:25:59 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , Robert, Thanks for the kind offer of help but my thinking is as follows..there is absolutely no juice so how could attempting to bump start a bike even create a spark?. I am going to Take the seat off and check the connections first. Then again I am no expert. -----Original Message----- From: Verde, Robert [mailto:Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 10:21 AM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance If none of these tips work for you, I am going to be near there tonight (I live in Arlington), I can stop by and lend another pair of hands to the effort. If nothing else, I can help push the bike... (Wait, how much did you say you weighed? ;-^) Robert -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:55 AM To: julian@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. YMMV. Good luck. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 Constant voltage charger is the term used. _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:34:11 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Rob Keiser" , , Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:31:01 -0500 Unless you left the headlights on all night, or something obvious, you also need discover the cause of the flat battery. Otherwise, it's only going to happen again, and at the most inopportune moment. When it comes to bumpstarting, if the battery is severely discharged, pull the fuse for the headlights. That way the alternator can devote all its output to the ignition system. Charge that battery on a charger (don't depend on the bike to do it), then get it load-tested. Could be your battery has simply gone toes up. Good luck. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Keiser" > It should. At least get it started so you can ride it home, or around town > to charge it up. Further battery tending will need to be done later. > > > From: "Julian Halton" > > Will this start a battery dead bike? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:55 AM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance > > If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump > start it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). > > Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. > Squeeze clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. > Dump the clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. > > YMMV. > > Good luck. > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > > > From: "Julian Halton" > To: "Verde, Robert" , "DCCycles" > > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:29:34 -0500 > > > Constant voltage charger is the term used. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run > the FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. > Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:36:21 2003 Subject: Head Up Display From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 10:32:42 -0500 There's a discussion over on slashdot (http://slashdot.org). There might be some interesting side notes within the comments (it's why I read them :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:42:55 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 07:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 12/12/2003 9:56:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, > julian@XXXXXX writes: > > > Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. > > Or sit on bike holding clutch in and have someone else push. Safer, > and > easier, if you have help. definately. I tried doing it on my own and when the engine fired I couldn't get the clutch squeezed fast enough and it pulled my shoulder out. Dumped the bike in addition to the dislocation. I had to bump my Kawi and the damn thing wouldn't go into 2nd no matter what I tried. Oh, and have the choke on. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:43:51 2003 Subject: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:43:43 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: There's also a /. discussion entitled "Police and Lawyers Love E-ZPass". "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. The article also mentions that the NYS Thruway has sensors to read the cards along the highway (not just at toll booths) but says the data is scrambled and not stored." http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1611251&mode=nested&tid=158&tid=99 Well, this is getting off topic, but trying to figure out what kind of information can and is recorded by our metro cards/passes/surveilence system, is like pulling teeth. Witold www.witold.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:49:39 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:02:39 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Yet again On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > And I've never gotten any sort of follow up to a negative comment on one of > those > surveys... On 2 of my non-American cars, I have received follow up for negative comments from a service or sales survey. And every time I have written a letter, the situation has been resolved in a manner that is satisfactory to me. YMMV :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 10:50:56 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:04:08 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: DCCycles Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Verde, Robert wrote: > Just a train-of-thought response, but similar to what I went through a few mornings ago... > Totally dead, no lights, makes me suspect either a battery connection is loose/corroded, or the fuse to the ignition is toast. Batteries can fail in a short period of time, but seems unlikely here. I don't know, I'm thinking KISS first. Is the kill switch on run? Toggle it a few times. Check your clutch and kickstand switches. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:05:35 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:05:27 -0500 Used to borrow my folks, before I got my own. Hit the Bay Bridge w/ no line, blew threw the toll the way one would one the Dulles Toll Road. Mom said they got a notice that I went threw too fast. She didn't mention any speeds, given what I was doing, she would have said something. Dad's gotten a notice for coming south through the Baltimore tunnel. Damn 5 or 10 mph limit defeats the purpose. >From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" >To: >Subject: EZ Pass revisited >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 10:43:43 -0500 > > >There's also a /. discussion entitled "Police and Lawyers Love E-ZPass". > > "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve >crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. The >article also mentions that the NYS Thruway has sensors to read the cards >along the highway (not just at toll booths) but says the data is scrambled >and not stored." > >http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1611251&mode=nested&tid=158&tid=99 > >Well, this is getting off topic, but trying to figure out what kind of >information can and is recorded by our metro cards/passes/surveilence >system, is like pulling teeth. > >Witold >www.witold.org > _________________________________________________________________ Don)B’t worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the holidays. Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:15:44 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:15:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Julian Halton wrote: > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:57:24 -0500 > From: Julian Halton > To: Rob Keiser , dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance > > Will this start a battery dead bike? Not a direct answer, but: http://www.batterytender.com/ See the FAQ. Battery Tenders are good stuff. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:16:25 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:16:29 -0500 To: From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance At 10:31 AM 12/12/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >Unless you left the headlights on all night, or something obvious, you also >need discover the cause of the flat battery. Otherwise, it's only going to >happen again, and at the most inopportune moment. Yep. My old Honda had a similar experience once. I got on, started it up, rode it out to the Annapolis area on back roads, then stopped somewhere for about 5 minutes. Got on again, tried to start, and...nothing. Not a peep. That's when I missed the kickstart on my even older Yamaha XT-550... Luckily I was near the top of a hill, on a fairly deserted back road, so I got on, put it in gear, held the clutch and shoved off. I rolled a couple of hundred feet building up speed, then let the clutch out. Bike jumped a bit, but the engine caught, and I rode home keeping the RPMs a bit higher than usual. I put the battery on a trickle charger overnight, and it started the next day, but only once (I shut down and tried again...might not have a hill nearby again). Diagnosis was that the battery was toast, so I replaced it and had no further problems. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:16:26 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:10:20 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance At 10:21 AM 12/12/03 -0500, Rob Keiser wrote: >It should. At least get it started so you can ride it home, or around town >to charge it up. Further battery tending will need to be done later. If the battery has been allowed to get very low too often, you may also need a new battery. I don't know about your particular model, but most lead-acid batteries build up sulfur compounds (lead sulfide I believe) on the plates when they get low on charge. When you charge the battery again, the sulfur goes back into solution and makes sulfuric acid again. The problem is that some of the deposits on the lead plates will have flaked off due to vibration (they are weaker than pure lead), so the plates slowly "erode" over time, and eventually there isn't enough plate area to hold a full charge. If the battery is kept fully charged, this happens at a much slower rate, and the battery lifetime is extended over what it is if you let a low charge sit in the battery a lot. That's why a Battery Tender is a good idea...keeps it topped off all the time (if you keep it plugged in when not riding). Batteries self-discharge. The rate varies, but up to 10% a week isn't unusual even for a good battery. A weak one may go faster. The above is from memory of a few articles and TV shows that covered battery maintenance. I'm not a battery design engineer, but it fits with what I've seen in the vehicles I've owned. If there are any battery design engineers or other knowledgeable people here, please feel free to correct or confirm as necessary. I'll appreciate it either way! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:24:37 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:25:43 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Well, My first step at lunch will be to check the fuse for a burnout. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:30:27 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "rich hall" , Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:28:35 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "rich hall" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:05 AM Subject: RE: EZ Pass revisited > Used to borrow my folks, before I got my own. Hit the Bay Bridge w/ no > line, blew threw the toll the way one would one the Dulles Toll Road. Mom > said they got a notice that I went threw too fast. She didn't mention any > speeds, given what I was doing, she would have said something. Dad's gotten > a notice for coming south through the Baltimore tunnel. Damn 5 or 10 mph > limit defeats the purpose. > It's way better than the 0 mph required to pay with cash. To offer a contrary opinion, I support the lower limits in the toll booth areas, although I agree 5-10 is a little extreme. 15 to 20 is prolly reasonable. I bet they have a lower failure rate with the transponders when people slow down. Considering all that you have to navigate at the toll plazas, oftentimes including the mega-merge on the far side, I don't really appreciate having [inattentive] cage drivers flying up behind me at 40-45 mph, the way they do on the Dulles Toll Road (posted at 35 in the SmartTag lanes at the main plaza.) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:31:29 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:29:27 -0500 X-SMTPD: qpsmtpd/0.26, http://develooper.com/code/qpsmtpd/ Push starting with a dead battery won't do jack for a bike with ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION. You need to have enough electricity to run the fuel pump and pressurize the fuel system and run the computer before the injectors will squirt any fuel. Right? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wilson" > When it comes to bumpstarting, if the battery is severely discharged, pull > the fuse for the headlights. That way the alternator can devote all its > output to the ignition system. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:32:51 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 08:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > got on, put it in gear, held the clutch and shoved off. I rolled a > couple > of hundred feet building up speed, then let the clutch out All you need is a fast walk. Just easier to paddle when you don't have to fight gravity. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:44:48 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:49:51 -0500 I have done thorough research :-) With EZ Pass, >or= 20MPH gets you a warning letter. Roll through ~15MPH and you're good. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: rich hall [SMTP:richallmc@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:05 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: EZ Pass revisited > > Used to borrow my folks, before I got my own. Hit the Bay Bridge w/ no > line, blew threw the toll the way one would one the Dulles Toll Road. Mom > > said they got a notice that I went threw too fast. She didn't mention any > > speeds, given what I was doing, she would have said something. Dad's > gotten > a notice for coming south through the Baltimore tunnel. Damn 5 or 10 mph > limit defeats the purpose. > > >From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > > > > "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve > >crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. > >http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1611251&mode=nested&tid=1 > 58&tid=99 > > > > >Witold > >www.witold.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Don't worry if your Inbox will max out while you are enjoying the > holidays. > Get MSN Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:48:31 2003 Subject: RE: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:48:24 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Michael Lynch" , "rich hall" , > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Lynch [mailto:MLynch@XXXXXX] > I have done thorough research :-) With EZ Pass, >or= 20MPH gets you a > warning letter. Roll through ~15MPH and you're good. Did anyone ever get something more than a warning? Just wondering. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:53:44 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DCCycles'" Subject: squirrel attack Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:58:48 -0500 From another list. Moral is wear your gear? Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:55:01 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:54:53 -0500 I hate it when people slow at all for the toll plaza on Dulles Toll Road :p If they need to throw up some a barrier between the Pass lanes and the toll payers, do so. Scary thing w/ EZ Pass is they have abilty to time you, they know how far you're going, easy for them to figure an avg speed. _________________________________________________________________ Browse styles for all ages, from the latest looks to cozy weekend wear at MSN Shopping. And check out the beauty products! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:55:21 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:54:12 -0500 From: Skip To: Paul Wilson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Paul Wilson wrote: [snip] > I bet they have a lower failure rate with the transponders when people slow > down. so this friend of mine had to drive the toll road on the way home from work, but he worked odd hours, and would hit the toll booth at about 1:30 in the afternoon, and there was no traffic. he got to wondering just how fast you could go through the booth and have it register. so he hit it at 70. it registered. 80. it registered. 95. it registered. 110. it registered. he decided that there was really no limit that he could reach. so the next day he drives through at normal speed, and there are three cops sitting there running radar. :~) --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 11:59:40 2003 Subject: Re: squirrel attack From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 11:56:03 -0500 Actually this was posted here a few days ago. What goes around comes around :-) Carl On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 11:58, Michael Lynch wrote: > >From another list. Moral is wear your gear? > > > > > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:10:53 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:10:45 -0500 I got pulled over coming home from work once, had been working late, was around midnight. Smarttag decided not to register. I was doing about 65. LEO never mentioned my speed. >From: Skip >To: Paul Wilson >CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:54:12 -0500 > >so this friend of mine had to drive the toll road on the way home from >work, but >he worked odd hours, and would hit the toll booth at about 1:30 in the >afternoon, and there was no traffic. > >he got to wondering just how fast you could go through the booth and have >it >register. > >so he hit it at 70. it registered. >80. it registered. >95. it registered. >110. it registered. > >he decided that there was really no limit that he could reach. so the next >day >he drives through at normal speed, and there are three cops sitting there >running radar. :~) _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:12:25 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Yet again Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:12:06 -0500 When I bought my new truck from the dealer my dad works at he said to fill out the survey when I got it and make sure to give the guy a good review, because it means a lot. Unfortunetly with family in the business I have never had a bad experience, with a few situations which more more stress related than customer service related. I also have a friend who is service dept manager and CSI makes a difference too. Some dealership has incentives based on CSI, ect. You can win very nice vacations (to Europe, to San Fran) and get things like TV's , ATVs ect. It's not like winning a 10 dollar gift cert to starbucks. So if the person is motivated enough, providing good service can be very rewarding. But it depends on the person. Lots of time I think people get very upset and yell at people or put them down, but yelling doesn't do anything, writing letter (like Carl mentioned) or calmly chatting with a service manager, will get you a LOT farther. Regards, Rob On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:45:43 EST, PenguinBiker wrote > In a message dated 12/11/2003 11:52:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rob@XXXXXX writes: > > > Most car dealers are HIGHLY assessed on their CSI > > (customer service index). I just bought a new S10 and I have gotten 2 > > surveys > > already. > > Paper is cheap. > Not that I am a cynic or anything...... > > (I do know how useful (NOT!) all of the student evaluations we did > in college were.) > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:15:34 2003 Subject: Re: Yet again From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 12:11:58 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 12:12, Rob Sharp wrote: > When I bought my new truck from the dealer my dad works at he said to fill out > the survey when I got it and make sure to give the guy a good review, because > it means a lot. Unfortunetly with family in the business I have never had a > bad experience, with a few situations which more more stress related than > customer service related. I also have a friend who is service dept manager > and CSI makes a difference too. > > Some dealership has incentives based on CSI, ect. You can win very nice > vacations (to Europe, to San Fran) and get things like TV's , ATVs ect. It's > not like winning a 10 dollar gift cert to starbucks. So if the person is > motivated enough, providing good service can be very rewarding. But it > depends on the person. Lots of time I think people get very upset and yell at > people or put them down, but yelling doesn't do anything, writing letter (like > Carl mentioned) or calmly chatting with a service manager, will get you a LOT > farther. > So far I've only received letters from Harley right after the purchase and not any time further down the road. Perhaps a yearly survey would be good. > Regards, > > Rob > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:28:56 2003 From: To: Subject: Re: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:28:49 -0500 > If you need to move it now, Could be a good time to learn how to bump start > it, if you're near a hill. (much easier than flat). > > Top of hill. Shift bike into 2nd gear. Key on. Engine switch on. Squeeze > clutch. Push bike. Run like hell (while pushing). Hop on. Dump the > clutch, get ready to give it some gas, and hold on. Of course, the classic response (so I hear) is to be at the bottom of the hill with a dead bike. Now ya gotta push it back UP :-( Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:52:06 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: RE: Harley Dealers (was Yet again) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:50:25 -0500 Or, for a better Harley Service experience, you could head out to Rockville Harley-Davidson. I have done a bunch of service business (non-Harley) with them over the last four years, and they've been great. I'm not going to tell you they're cheap, but their service has been excellent. And they _always_ call! One time, I showed up there with my bike on a truck as I got a rear flat. About an hour later, they had me on the road again with a new tire balanced on a wheel that mounts on a single-sided swing-arm. I'm sure you know that kind of service is hard enough to find at any price! Stephen > -----Original Message----- > > [Dave] Bingo. There's almost no motivation to do anything > customer service related with that kind of product demand... > Pretty ironic actually... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:54:39 2003 Subject: RE: Harley Dealers (was Yet again) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 12:51:02 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 12:50, stephen wrote: > Or, for a better Harley Service experience, you could head out to Rockville > Harley-Davidson. I have done a bunch of service business (non-Harley) with > them over the last four years, and they've been great. I'm not going to tell > you they're cheap, but their service has been excellent. And they _always_ > call! > > One time, I showed up there with my bike on a truck as I got a rear flat. > About an hour later, they had me on the road again with a new tire balanced > on a wheel that mounts on a single-sided swing-arm. I'm sure you know that > kind of service is hard enough to find at any price! > I'll keep them in mind if I'm up that way. Most likely I'll just start using Whitt's out in Manassas instead. > Stephen > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 12:59:28 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:58:14 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Julian Halton CC: DCCycles Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Didja check the engine cutoff switch? Julian Halton wrote: > > Oh..what a beautiful Fall evening last night. Let me take that trip down > the 66, 'cross the Key bridge and onto Canal Road and visit my family > for dinner. For dessert and conveniently just a few blocks away, an > interesting friend that just got out of a ten year marriage and is > trying to make up for lost time. > > As I pull into my parents and mindful of the wind, I humbly request to > place the bike in the garage. Going over the substantial lip, I stall > once but think nothing of it, re-start the bike and walk in to a warm > house expecting a feast. > > Let's cut to me standing in a half-lit garage an hour later, my father > waiting impatiently to put his car in its accustomed place. The Key is > in my 2002 Yamaha R6 with 5400 miles on it. The key is in the on > position. The familiar sound of the fuel pump engaging is not heard, > there are no clicking sounds and absolutely no lights. > > Turn it off. Wait. Try and start. No Luck! Check to see the bike is in > neutral. No power. Get on the bike, put the kickstand up and turn the > key no luck. Take a look-see at the bike, not knowing where the battery > is, I check any visible connections. > > Please help. I need to get the bike started. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 13:37:17 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, rich hall wrote: > Scary thing w/ EZ Pass is they have abilty to time you, they know how far > you're going, easy for them to figure an avg speed. Of course, on the Toll road, anyhow, it is a rare day when the average speed of any vehicle is capable of exceeding the legal limit over the course of the entire distance traveled. East seems worse than West, but based on experience, it isn't out of the question to have averaged ~18mph between Reston Parkway and 495. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 13:45:50 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:45:42 -0500 I was reverse commuting, I'm pretty sure I averaved over the limit every time from the plaza to 28. >From: "Daniel H. Brown" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) >Of course, on the Toll road, anyhow, it is a rare day when the average >speed of any vehicle is capable of exceeding the legal limit over the >course of the entire distance traveled. >East seems worse than West, but based on experience, it isn't out of the >question to have averaged ~18mph between Reston Parkway and 495. _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids)B’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:10:11 2003 Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 14:06:34 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 12:58, William J. Huson wrote: > Didja check the engine cutoff switch? > I dunno. Even with the engine cutoff switch I still have power. Even on the Harley ;-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:18:48 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:17:37 -0500 Dan, Westbound in the morning and Eastbound in the evening - rarely drop below 65-70. If you do, you'll probably get run over... Perry (used to commute from Gaithersburg to Herndon) >From: "Daniel H. Brown" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) > >On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, rich hall wrote: > > Scary thing w/ EZ Pass is they have abilty to time you, they know how >far > > you're going, easy for them to figure an avg speed. > > >Of course, on the Toll road, anyhow, it is a rare day when the average >speed of any vehicle is capable of exceeding the legal limit over the >course of the entire distance traveled. > >East seems worse than West, but based on experience, it isn't out of the >question to have averaged ~18mph between Reston Parkway and 495. > >-- >Dan Brown >brown@XXXXXX > _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:23:07 2003 Subject: It's ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 14:19:30 -0500 I just called. Chris said they're finishing it up now. Plus, the Check Valve Assembly seems to have been the problem. The pressurizing sound is gone and they found a hole in the old one. Chris also said they were taking it over to get washed. I commented "that's good. They didn't wash it last time." Whereupon he said, "that's unusual, they always wash the bikes." I said, "for as long as you've been there... a month" We agreed that he'd change what he says to "they always [do whaterver] for as long as I've been here." So I'm happy I'm getting her back. I'm curious as to the final bill too. I'd better not have to pay a second $50 for the Check Valve Assembly. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:28:10 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" , Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:28:02 -0500 > > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > There's also a /. discussion entitled "Police and Lawyers Love E-ZPass". > > "The AP is reporting that police are using EZ-Pass records to solve crimes. Lawyers are also getting the records to use in divorce cases. The article also mentions that the NYS Thruway has sensors to read the cards along the highway (not just at toll booths) but says the data is scrambled and not stored." > > http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/11/1611251&mode=nested&tid=158&tid=99 > It seems clear: If you're doing something you'd rather other people not find out about, you wrap your smart-tag in foil, get cash at your local ATM and use that cash instead of cards, and use a regular fare card on metro instead of the smart card thing. There are still ways to protect a fair bit of your privacy, but we're mostly too lazy to bother. Or to complacent to care. Bob Meyer, STOC @ 1157 '01 ST1100 A, "teSTarossa" '92 ST1100, "red STag" '02 919, "still looking for a name" A steady job and a wife have ruined more good bikers.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:31:46 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:31:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Perry Coleman wrote: > > Westbound in the morning and Eastbound in the evening - rarely drop below > 65-70. If you do, you'll probably get run over... This is the route I ride/drive, daily, actually. And, you're right. It generally goes fast in the morning, once you get through the starting gate. Getting TO the gate though, during rush hour (and +-2hrs) involves a wait. Then, after trying to keep from being run over, getting off at Reston Parkway, things have been being backed up to Wiehle, making for another substantial wait. In the evening, I find it isn't uncommon to wait ~10 mins to get on the toll road off of Reston Parkway, then drive really fast until around the exit for Rt. 7 -- presuming there aren't any accidents -- then wait 5 to 10mins to go through the fasttoll lanes, then another 5 to 10 to get through the mess to go onto/under 495. The distance is about 10 miles, add that up and you'll see it is ~30 to 35 mins. Dividing things out, it works out to about ~18mph. The computer in my car does it for me, but the math isn't that hard. The commute sucks. FWIW, in the interest of sharing my misery, I continue on to Arlington, which is another tiny bit of really fast driving, until you get into the back up on the connector. From there it usually is stop and go again until I get off at Washington blvd. > Perry (used to commute from Gaithersburg to Herndon) Sorry to hear that. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:46:06 2003 Subject: 911 Update Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: The Update - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com - cannot print. Read-only - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day job with - arrive on Macomb street - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging - remove seat (two bolts) - find fuse box- fiddle with it - pull out the fuses in order one by one - all fuses appear okay - check connections- no evident corrosion - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights - re-attach seat - am already on top of hill - start in second gear - engine makes some noise but does not start - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second - cannot get engine to start Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only happened to Harley owners. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:47:52 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:48:58 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "William J. Huson" Cc: "DCCycles" Yes checked engine cutoff switch Even with cutoff in off position I still normally get headlights, fuel pump, plus neutral light -----Original Message----- From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 12:58 PM To: Julian Halton Cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Didja check the engine cutoff switch? Julian Halton wrote: > > Oh..what a beautiful Fall evening last night. Let me take that trip > down the 66, 'cross the Key bridge and onto Canal Road and visit my > family for dinner. For dessert and conveniently just a few blocks > away, an interesting friend that just got out of a ten year marriage > and is trying to make up for lost time. > > As I pull into my parents and mindful of the wind, I humbly request to > place the bike in the garage. Going over the substantial lip, I stall > once but think nothing of it, re-start the bike and walk in to a warm > house expecting a feast. > > Let's cut to me standing in a half-lit garage an hour later, my father > waiting impatiently to put his car in its accustomed place. The Key > is in my 2002 Yamaha R6 with 5400 miles on it. The key is in the on > position. The familiar sound of the fuel pump engaging is not heard, > there are no clicking sounds and absolutely no lights. > > Turn it off. Wait. Try and start. No Luck! Check to see the bike is > in neutral. No power. Get on the bike, put the kickstand up and turn > the key no luck. Take a look-see at the bike, not knowing where the > battery is, I check any visible connections. > > Please help. I need to get the bike started. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:50:31 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:50:23 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: It's ready To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > We agreed that he'd change what he says to "they always [do > whaterver] > for as long as I've been here." why don't we clue your little friend into the misdom of NOT saying anything so stupid. "always xxx" is disproved by a single example of failure. "We try to do xxx, or we normally do xxx" are safer responses but indeed no response save "I'm sorry we missed that last time" should be sufficient. Whatever happened to the customer is always right? Sorta like the lady last night in her Explorer/Tahoe/Whatever who pulled out in front of me because she could be bothered to look accusing me of "but didn't you change lanes?" when I blasted my horn and asked her what she thought she was doing. Couldn't say "i'm sorry" could ya! Noooo, that helmet festooned with reflective tape, road safety vest, bright headlight and markers. Oh yeah, I'm not visible... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:51:50 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: 911 Update Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:51:56 -0500 You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR dies, I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes it just does. :( Regards, Rob On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > The Update > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > - cannot print. Read-only > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day job > with > - arrive on Macomb street > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging > - remove seat (two bolts) > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > - all fuses appear okay > - check connections- no evident corrosion > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > - re-attach seat > - am already on top of hill > - start in second gear > - engine makes some noise but does not start > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > - cannot get engine to start > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring Coleman's > is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only happened > to Harley owners. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:54:00 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:39:20 -0500 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance At 08:32 AM 12/12/03 -0800, matthew patton wrote: >> of hundred feet building up speed, then let the clutch out > >All you need is a fast walk. Just easier to paddle when you don't have >to fight gravity. Agreed. It wasn't much of a hill. :^) -- Mike B. "In the representative system, the reason for everything must publicly appear. Every man is a proprietor in government, and considers it a necessary part of his business to understand. It concerns his interest because it affects his property. He examines the cost, and compares it with the advantages; and above all, he does not adopt the slavish custom of following what in other governments are called 'leaders'." -- Tom Paine, _Rights of Man_ (1791-92) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:54:01 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:20 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's ready At 02:19 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >I just called. Chris said they're finishing it up now. Plus, the Check >Valve Assembly seems to have been the problem. The pressurizing sound is >gone and they found a hole in the old one. Hmmm....wonder if that was your problem all along, or if that resulted from the prior work... >So I'm happy I'm getting her back. I'm curious as to the final bill too. >I'd better not have to pay a second $50 for the Check Valve Assembly. You shouldn't have to. I think the deal is $50 per visit for covered problem(s), not $50 per problem. One visit, N problems, $50. I asked about the Stage I kit last night when I dropped the bike off. Battley's always includes pipes in the deal...say that not doing that doesn't get you the full effect of the new air cleaner and re-tuning. They also said they don't like the "download" that H-D sells (the new chip). They have another one that they say works a lot better (and is easier to install). Whole thing takes 1.5 hrs to install. Stage I kit, new software and pipes, with labor and taxes and whatever is "about $1000". Just checked and the tech is leaving for the QA test ride now, so I should be able to go pick it up in an hour or two...about when the sun and temps start to go down fast...sigh. It was supposed to be *nice* yesterday and today...that's why I planned this maintenance for now. Left to take it over about 5pm last night and got chilly fingers and toes, and got blown around a little. Not bad at all, considering the gust strength...turned my head a bit once, made me steer and lean a little to correct two or three other times, but otherwise no biggie...never shifted more than a foot to either side, and I was staying closer to center-lane than usual to compensate. The windshield and weight of the bike help a lot. Chilly but not cold at about 42 degrees. The high today, as shown by my backyard thermometer, has been 38. Maybe I'll look into some winter gloves while I'm there...and wear my wool socks this time. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:54:03 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:41:13 -0500 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited At 11:54 AM 12/12/03 -0500, rich hall wrote: >Scary thing w/ EZ Pass is they have abilty to time you, they know how far >you're going, easy for them to figure an avg speed. NJ and PA turnpikes are the same way...but they don't seem to bother for some reason. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:54:05 2003 Subject: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:12 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Should I buy a battery tender? Should I buy a battery and swap it out? Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? -----Original Message----- From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 911 Update You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR dies, I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes it just does. :( Regards, Rob On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > The Update > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > - cannot print. Read-only > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > job with > - arrive on Macomb street > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging > - remove seat (two bolts) > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > - all fuses appear okay > - check connections- no evident corrosion > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > - re-attach seat > - am already on top of hill > - start in second gear > - engine makes some noise but does not start > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > - cannot get engine to start > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only > happened to Harley owners. -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:58:09 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Julian Halton'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:03:13 -0500 Yes. Complete #1 first and see if it holds a charge. Not yet. Should you buy a multimeter and learn how to use it? Yes. Try to jump the bike from another 12V vehicle. Check that battery connections are tight and clean. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [SMTP:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:55 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Next Steps > > > Should I buy a battery tender? > Should I buy a battery and swap it out? > Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: 911 Update > > You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR dies, > I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > > I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel > sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes > it > just does. :( > > Regards, > > Rob > > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > The Update > > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > > - cannot print. Read-only > > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > > job with > > - arrive on Macomb street > > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging > > - remove seat (two bolts) > > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > > - all fuses appear okay > > - check connections- no evident corrosion > > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > > - re-attach seat > > - am already on top of hill > > - start in second gear > > - engine makes some noise but does not start > > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > > - cannot get engine to start > > > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only > > happened to Harley owners. > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 14:58:24 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:58:16 -0500 Jump it??? >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: Next Steps >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:12 -0500 > > >Should I buy a battery tender? >Should I buy a battery and swap it out? >Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] >Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM >To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: 911 Update > >You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR dies, >I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > >I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel >sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes >it >just does. :( > >Regards, > >Rob > > >On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > The Update > > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > > - cannot print. Read-only > > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > > job with > > - arrive on Macomb street > > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging > > - remove seat (two bolts) > > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > > - all fuses appear okay > > - check connections- no evident corrosion > > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > > - re-attach seat > > - am already on top of hill > > - start in second gear > > - engine makes some noise but does not start > > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > > - cannot get engine to start > > > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only > > happened to Harley owners. > > >-- >Rob Sharp >1996 Honda VFR 750 >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >Network Security Engineer > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids)B’ toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:02:20 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:02:26 -0500 I would try to jump start it next. Someone brought up a good point, you might not be able to bump start a EFI bike. R6 is EFI right ? Rob On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > Should I buy a battery tender? > Should I buy a battery and swap it out? > Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: 911 Update > > You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR > dies, I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > > I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel > sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes > it > just does. :( > > Regards, > > Rob > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > The Update > > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > > - cannot print. Read-only > > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > > job with > > - arrive on Macomb street > > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging > > - remove seat (two bolts) > > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > > - all fuses appear okay > > - check connections- no evident corrosion > > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > > - re-attach seat > > - am already on top of hill > > - start in second gear > > - engine makes some noise but does not start > > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > > - cannot get engine to start > > > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only > > happened to Harley owners. > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:02:53 2003 Subject: RE: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:02:45 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Julian Halton" , Check the Voltage regulator rectifier. Quite a few people burn them out on R6s. http://www.dcsportbikes.com/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=13&TopicID=1862&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1 http://pub114.ezboard.com/fyamahar6messagenetyamahar6techquestions > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [mailto:julian@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:55 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Next Steps > > > > Should I buy a battery tender? > Should I buy a battery and swap it out? > Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: 911 Update > > You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If > my VFR dies, > I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > > I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I > had the fuel > sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but > sometimes > it > just does. :( > > Regards, > > Rob > > > On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > The Update > > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > > - cannot print. Read-only > > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > > job with > > - arrive on Macomb street > > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is > challenging > > - remove seat (two bolts) > > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > > - all fuses appear okay > > - check connections- no evident corrosion > > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > > - re-attach seat > > - am already on top of hill > > - start in second gear > > - engine makes some noise but does not start > > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > > - cannot get engine to start > > > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these > things only > > happened to Harley owners. > > > -- > Rob Sharp > 1996 Honda VFR 750 > 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA > Network Security Engineer > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:06:55 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:05:10 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: 911 Update At 02:47 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >The Update >- all fuses appear okay >- check connections- no evident corrosion >- turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights This is really sounding like a weak battery. How old is it? Has it been kept on a battery tender when not being ridden frequently? >- engine makes some noise but does not start >- repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second >- cannot get engine to start As others here have said, if your bike is dependent enough on electricity for normal functioning, you'll have to make sure you have enough electricity or it won't start from a push. The perils of high-tech. >Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring Coleman's >is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only happened to >Harley owners. Hasn't happened to this Harley owner so far (not surprising in the first 1000 miles! :^), but it happened to me when I was a Honda owner. Batteries die after a while. You can extend the life, but not permanently, by maintaining it properly. When it goes, you just replace it. Just part of the cost of riding a high tech bike. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:08:39 2003 Subject: RE: Next Steps Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:09:42 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "rich hall" , Tried ten times on a hill nonetheless. Got some chuffing noises and that's it. I believe it is efi -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:58 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Next Steps Jump it??? >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: Next Steps >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:12 -0500 > > >Should I buy a battery tender? >Should I buy a battery and swap it out? >Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] >Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM >To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: 911 Update > >You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR >dies, I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > >I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel >sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes >it >just does. :( > >Regards, > >Rob > > >On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > The Update > > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > > - cannot print. Read-only > > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day > > job with > > - arrive on Macomb street > > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is > > challenging > > - remove seat (two bolts) > > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > > - all fuses appear okay > > - check connections- no evident corrosion > > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights > > - re-attach seat > > - am already on top of hill > > - start in second gear > > - engine makes some noise but does not start > > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second > > - cannot get engine to start > > > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring > > Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things > > only happened to Harley owners. > > >-- >Rob Sharp >1996 Honda VFR 750 >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >Network Security Engineer > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Shop online for kids' toys by age group, price range, and toy category at MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:10:19 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's ready Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:10:24 -0500 > I asked about the Stage I kit last night when I dropped the bike off. > Battley's always includes pipes in the deal...say that not doing that > doesn't get you the full effect of the new air cleaner and re- > tuning. They also said they don't like the "download" that H-D > sells (the new chip). They have another one that they say works a > lot better (and is easier to install). Whole thing takes 1.5 hrs to > install. Stage I kit, new software and pipes, with labor and taxes > and whatever is "about $1000". 1,000 bux isn't terrible for all that installed if it's a full exhaust system. Is this a FULL exhaust system or slip ones? Not sure how Harly pipes work but my bike a set of headers/collector and a pipe. For the hawk GT the biggest difference for added power was the better flowing air cleaner and jet kit(6-8 hp). The pipe added minimal power (2-3 hp if that). This is on a 45 hp 650 CC engine however, so it would probably scale to more on a 1200cc. Most of the time I think pipes are for the added rumble and not proformance. After having a Supertrapp on my hawk gt I definetly enjoy the quiet stock VFR exhaust :) Supertrapp was LOUD as hell. I had 14 discs on that sucker and it would set off car alarms. Regards, Rob -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:17:21 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:18:36 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Next Steps At 02:55 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Should I buy a battery tender? Probably, it's a good investment unless you ride a few times a week year-round. >Should I buy a battery and swap it out? Sounds like it to me, but I'm not a mechanic. If you do, at least you'll know the battery is good, and will be good for at least a few months to come (barring a defect in the new one of course). The other suggestions of jump-starting and checking for failure of the regulator sound pretty good to me too. >Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? Based on the other suggestions here, and my past vehicle experiences, I'd probably try the jump start first...if it fires up and runs normally, it's almost certainly the battery...though it could also be your charging system (i.e. the battery is working, but it isn't being "refilled"). Checking voltages at various test points, using the manual for info, is worthwhile in that case to see where the problem is (alternator/generator, regulator, ???). If the above doesn't change anything in your situation, it's probably time for someone with more diagnostic experience/equipment. Just my opinion (with help from the rest here...good ideas all). -- Mike B. "The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:23:43 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:24:53 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's ready At 03:10 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >> install. Stage I kit, new software and pipes, with labor and taxes >> and whatever is "about $1000". > >1,000 bux isn't terrible for all that installed if it's a full exhaust system. > Is this a FULL exhaust system or slip ones? Not sure how Harly pipes work >but my bike a set of headers/collector and a pipe. I didn't inquire to that level of detail. I'm not getting it, just trying to get a little data to compare to Carl's experience. I think it's the SEII pipes, but I'd have to ask to be sure. Harley pipes vary. Some bikes have a crossover connecting the two pipes, and some don't. >For the hawk GT the biggest difference for added power was the better flowing >air cleaner and jet kit(6-8 hp). The pipe added minimal power (2-3 hp if >that). This is on a 45 hp 650 CC engine however, so it would probably scale >to more on a 1200cc. My bike is 1450cc (88 ci). That's the standard H-D engine size for everything except the V-Rods and Sportsters. The Screaming Eagle motors go up to 103 ci I think, but those are for racing, not street use (according to H-D anyway. :^) Yes, the power boost for the Stage I kit change is bigger than what you saw. 2-3 times bigger according to the graphs in the catalog. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:26:51 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:26:38 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: Harley Dealers (was Yet again) To: stephen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- stephen wrote: > Or, for a better Harley Service experience, you could > head out to Rockville > Harley-Davidson. I have done a bunch of service business > (non-Harley) with > them over the last four years, and they've been great. > I'm not going to tell > you they're cheap, but their service has been excellent. > And they _always_ > call! i bought my 996 there and have been quite pleased with chris' work on it.... fyi, i've since had donnie unger/duc pond racing service my superbike for 60% of the rockville h-d/battley cost. > One time, I showed up there with my bike on a truck as I > got a rear flat. > About an hour later, they had me on the road again with a > new tire balanced > on a wheel that mounts on a single-sided swing-arm. I'm > sure you know that > kind of service is hard enough to find at any price! sounds like a simple job for a ducati dealer. let's hear the price they charged you.... > > -----Original Message----- > > > > [Dave] Bingo. There's almost no motivation to do > anything > > customer service related with that kind of product > demand... > > Pretty ironic actually... ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:47:24 2003 Subject: Re: It's ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 15:43:47 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 14:55, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 02:19 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > >I just called. Chris said they're finishing it up now. Plus, the Check > >Valve Assembly seems to have been the problem. The pressurizing sound is > >gone and they found a hole in the old one. > > Hmmm....wonder if that was your problem all along, or if that resulted from > the prior work... > That was the problem I brought it in originally for. > >So I'm happy I'm getting her back. I'm curious as to the final bill too. > >I'd better not have to pay a second $50 for the Check Valve Assembly. > > You shouldn't have to. I think the deal is $50 per visit for covered > problem(s), not $50 per problem. One visit, N problems, $50. > > I asked about the Stage I kit last night when I dropped the bike off. > Battley's always includes pipes in the deal...say that not doing that > doesn't get you the full effect of the new air cleaner and re-tuning. They > also said they don't like the "download" that H-D sells (the new chip). > They have another one that they say works a lot better (and is easier to > install). Whole thing takes 1.5 hrs to install. Stage I kit, new software > and pipes, with labor and taxes and whatever is "about $1000". That's excluding the 10k check and sounds a lot more expensive than mine. The "$400 oil change" was part of the "about $1200" that I paid. > > Just checked and the tech is leaving for the QA test ride now, so I should > be able to go pick it up in an hour or two...about when the sun and temps > start to go down fast...sigh. > Cool. Rita doesn't like to drive in the dark so I may not be able to pick up the bike until tomorrow. She suggested that I ride the Suzuki down there and leave it out front while I ride the Harley down to my daughter's. After I got done laughing I told her I could wait until tomorrow. > Maybe > I'll look into some winter gloves while I'm there...and wear my wool socks > this time. :^) > I have some of the -90 degree hiking socks which work quite well. Sports Authority. > -- Mike B. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 15:51:04 2003 Subject: Re: It's ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 12 Dec 2003 15:47:26 -0500 On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 15:10, Rob Sharp wrote: > > I asked about the Stage I kit last night when I dropped the bike off. > > Battley's always includes pipes in the deal...say that not doing that > > doesn't get you the full effect of the new air cleaner and re- > > tuning. They also said they don't like the "download" that H-D > > sells (the new chip). They have another one that they say works a > > lot better (and is easier to install). Whole thing takes 1.5 hrs to > > install. Stage I kit, new software and pipes, with labor and taxes > > and whatever is "about $1000". > > > 1,000 bux isn't terrible for all that installed if it's a full exhaust system. > Is this a FULL exhaust system or slip ones? Not sure how Harly pipes work > but my bike a set of headers/collector and a pipe. > The SE II pipes are slip on but exchange the "exchanger" with a solid mounting bar. > For the hawk GT the biggest difference for added power was the better flowing > air cleaner and jet kit(6-8 hp). For EFI it's the tuning of the module rather than a jet kit. > The pipe added minimal power (2-3 hp if > that). This is on a 45 hp 650 CC engine however, so it would probably scale > to more on a 1200cc. Most of the time I think pipes are for the added rumble > and not proformance. There was an article in one of the bike magazines (American Iron I think) that suggested the cheapest performance upgrade is the Stage I kit and new pipes. It also keeps them from touching the engine where most of the problems seem to occur (after they crack the cases). > After having a Supertrapp on my hawk gt I definetly > enjoy the quiet stock VFR exhaust :) Supertrapp was LOUD as hell. I had 14 > discs on that sucker and it would set off car alarms. > > Regards, > > Rob Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 16:31:35 2003 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:31:21 -0500 Subject: DC parking conundrum X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information Does anyone in the District have advice for displaying a DC parking decal on a covered bike parked on-street? Or, at a minimum, advice for avoiding getting parking tickets for said street parking? I live in DC and have a Ward 2 parking decal for my cage and my bike. -Sean P.S. Advice of the "move to Maryland" or "move to BFE Virginia where we have lots of parking" variety will be chuckled at, but probably not followed... at least not in the short term. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 16:51:44 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:51:37 EST Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/12/2003 10:25:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > my thinking is as follows..there > is absolutely no juice so how could attempting to bump start a bike even > create a spark?. If you have an exited field rotor (Electro magnets) and the battery is stone cold _dead_ then you are right, nothing will happen. BUT if you have a permanent magnet rotor you _will_ generate current*. The question is what type do you have? I would try the bump start method just because it may work even with just a little juice in the battery (the idea of pulling the headlight fuse was a good one.) *If you pass a magnet over a coil of wire you _will_ create electricity. And god knows there are one hell of a lot of bikes out there with no battery at all (rarely street bikes but often dirt bikes.) Good luck, I know how this kind of thing sucks. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 16:54:20 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:54:08 EST Subject: Re: 911 Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/12/2003 2:46:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > am figuring Coleman's > is going to charge arm and a leg. NO, no, no! Stick with us and we will figure it out for you, I really think it is just a simple thing. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 16:56:57 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:58:03 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: , As I mentioned tried bump starting no joy...the engine made some noise that is it. -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 4:52 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance In a message dated 12/12/2003 10:25:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: > my thinking is as follows..there > is absolutely no juice so how could attempting to bump start a bike > even create a spark?. If you have an exited field rotor (Electro magnets) and the battery is stone cold _dead_ then you are right, nothing will happen. BUT if you have a permanent magnet rotor you _will_ generate current*. The question is what type do you have? I would try the bump start method just because it may work even with just a little juice in the battery (the idea of pulling the headlight fuse was a good one.) *If you pass a magnet over a coil of wire you _will_ create electricity. And god knows there are one hell of a lot of bikes out there with no battery at all (rarely street bikes but often dirt bikes.) Good luck, I know how this kind of thing sucks. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 17:02:17 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Sean Steele" , Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:00:55 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Steele" > Does anyone in the District have advice for displaying a DC parking > decal on a covered bike parked on-street? Or, at a minimum, advice for > avoiding getting parking tickets for said street parking? > > I live in DC and have a Ward 2 parking decal for my cage and my bike. > > -Sean > > P.S. Advice of the "move to Maryland" or "move to BFE Virginia where we > have lots of parking" variety will be chuckled at, but probably not > followed... at least not in the short term. LOL. What parking sticker? My VFR has *never* had one and it's parked under a cover on the street all day, every day. It's never gotten a ticket either, even though our block has zone parking. Bottom line - the parking enforcers/attendants don't seem to care. Last year, I bought the all-in-one for the VF, which includes a parking zone designation. This year I didn't bother, and saved my $15 and got the month/year renewal sticker for the plates, just like old times. When the VFR comes up for renewal, I'll get rid of the all-in-one on it too. Only rub is, for the month/year stickers you have to visit a DMV office. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 17:13:16 2003 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:13:01 -0500 Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information Paul Wilson wrote: > > What parking sticker? My VFR has *never* had one and it's parked under a > cover on the street all day, every day. It's never gotten a ticket either, > even though our block has zone parking. Bottom line - the parking > enforcers/attendants don't seem to care. For once I'm delight-- err, *shocked* that the bureaucratic machine could hide such ineptitude. By all-in-one you mean the renewal/tags + parking decal? This time you're just renewing the VFR's tags -- for a still-harrowing $52? -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 17:23:26 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Sean Steele" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:21:53 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Steele" > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > What parking sticker? My VFR has *never* had one and it's parked under a > > cover on the street all day, every day. It's never gotten a ticket either, > > even though our block has zone parking. Bottom line - the parking > > enforcers/attendants don't seem to care. > > For once I'm delight-- err, *shocked* that the bureaucratic machine > could hide such ineptitude. > > By all-in-one you mean the renewal/tags + parking decal? This time > you're just renewing the VFR's tags -- for a still-harrowing $52? > > -Sean > $52? Heck, it was $77(!) for the VF, including the "inspection fee," which gets tacked on every other year (?) even though bikes get annual inspection. Riddle me that Batman. 'Course that DMV's bike inspection is worth about $12.50 Or $6.25 on the VFR, considering I had to go twice the last time. Criminy the reg. fees and the insurance on the VF are prolly more than the bike's worth. :-] By "all-in-one" I mean that big-ass sticker with the exp. date, parking zone and tag number. There's a bar code on it too. Same one as the cages. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 17:50:31 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:50:22 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: 911 Update To: Julian Halton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX why can't this bike be jump-started? everything i've heard points to a battery issue that could most likely be temporarily ignored by using a set of jumper cables. if you tow the bike to colemans, there will suredly be a swift move by the group to brand you an imbecile. worst case scenario you should purchase a replacement battery. keep the original for use as a spare if it can hold a charge. --- Julian Halton wrote: > > The Update > - download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com > - cannot print. Read-only > - memorize location of battery and fuses (six) > - enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I > work my day job > with > - arrive on Macomb street > - even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is > challenging > - remove seat (two bolts) > - find fuse box- fiddle with it > - pull out the fuses in order one by one > - all fuses appear okay > - check connections- no evident corrosion > - turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak > headlights > - re-attach seat > - am already on top of hill > - start in second gear > - engine makes some noise but does not start > - repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others > in second > - cannot get engine to start > > Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am > figuring Coleman's > is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things > only happened to > Harley owners. > ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 19:28:31 2003 Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 19:28:40 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's ready At 03:43 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: >On Fri, 2003-12-12 at 14:55, Mike Bartman wrote: >> I asked about the Stage I kit last night when I dropped the bike off. >> Battley's always includes pipes in the deal...say that not doing that >> doesn't get you the full effect of the new air cleaner and re-tuning. They >> also said they don't like the "download" that H-D sells (the new chip). >> They have another one that they say works a lot better (and is easier to >> install). Whole thing takes 1.5 hrs to install. Stage I kit, new software >> and pipes, with labor and taxes and whatever is "about $1000". > >That's excluding the 10k check and sounds a lot more expensive than >mine. The "$400 oil change" was part of the "about $1200" that I paid. The price I got wasn't exactly what you got, but it sounds ballpark if you allow for the differences in the engine controller change. >> Just checked and the tech is leaving for the QA test ride now, so I should >> be able to go pick it up in an hour or two...about when the sun and temps >> start to go down fast...sigh. > >Cool. Rita doesn't like to drive in the dark so I may not be able to >pick up the bike until tomorrow. Got back a little bit ago. Slightly nippy on the toes and fingertips, otherwise toasty warm (nearly sweating...) in the FXRG (vents open...) and Competition pants over jeans and longjohns, with a leather vest and long-sleeved T-shirt. I think glove liners are in order, and I really should have worn the wool socks... :^) Are we still supposed to get "wintery mix" one day this weekend? BTW, Battleys is running a winter special on maintenance work over $200: free oil and 10% off parts and labor. The 1000 mile, which is normally $230, was just under $148 by the time they got done with the freebies and discounts. A pleasant surprise on a chilly night! :^) >I have some of the -90 degree hiking socks which work quite well. Sports >Authority. I'll look into them... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 20:10:15 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:10:08 -0500 No need to page Bartman, he already replies to every email. >From: "Paul Wilson" >To: "Sean Steele" , "dc-cycles list" > >Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum >Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:21:53 -0500 > >Riddle me that Batman. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of slow downloads and busy signals? Get a high-speed Internet connection! Comparison-shop your local high-speed providers here. https://broadband.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Dec 12 20:58:54 2003 From: "stephen" To: "Mike Bartman" , Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance & a good foot-paddling Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:57:53 -0500 Any hill you can 'foot-paddle' up isn't a hill, it's your imagination. Either that or you're riding a bicycle. I've heard stories of Harley riders having to 'foot-paddle' their bikes DOWN the hill when the going gets cold! :-) It's a good thing the SO isn't reading this þõrñºgr@)Bþhý. Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 08:41:14 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:54:16 -0500 (EST) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: It's ready On Fri, 12 Dec 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > For the hawk GT the biggest difference for added power was the better flowing > air cleaner and jet kit(6-8 hp). The pipe added minimal power (2-3 hp if > that). This is on a 45 hp 650 CC engine however, so it would probably scale > to more on a 1200cc. Full exhaust, air filter, airbox cutting and tuning is about 10-12hp on my 'Busa. Manufacturers are leaving less and less on the table now with exhaust and intakes on newer bikes. > Most of the time I think pipes are for the added rumble Weight savings is a big one, too. My Yosh full system is ~15lbs lighter than my stock exhaust. > enjoy the quiet stock VFR exhaust :) Supertrapp was LOUD as hell. I had 14 > discs on that sucker and it would set off car alarms. Holy shit, 14 discs? I ran 6-8 disks on the Supertrapps on my Eliminator and it was LOUD. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 09:38:11 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:36:57 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Wayne Edelen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's ready Wayne Edelen wrote: > Full exhaust, air filter, airbox cutting and tuning is about 10-12hp on my > 'Busa. Manufacturers are leaving less and less on the table now with > exhaust and intakes on newer bikes. Maybe on a `Busa, but the Harley engines aren't even close to max power. Sorta like the ol' V-8 Detroit iron, lotsa room to turn up the heat on those beasts. > > enjoy the quiet stock VFR exhaust :) Supertrapp was LOUD as hell. I had 14 > > discs on that sucker and it would set off car alarms. > > Holy shit, 14 discs? I ran 6-8 disks on the Supertrapps on my Eliminator > and it was LOUD. :-) Had Supertrapps on my previosuly owned Harley, 5 years old and 4K miles, a garage queen. Don't know how many disks they had but those suckers were SUPERLOUD - window breakers. Dern things would set off car alarms four blocks away. Dumped them for Screaming Eagles made by Kerker and they had a sticker saying they were 80 db. Ah yes, reasonably quiet, save for the hard core Harley guys bitching over my wimpy pipes :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 10:41:32 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 07:41:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sean Steele wrote: > Paul Wilson wrote: > > > > What parking sticker? My VFR has *never* had one and it's parked > under a > > cover on the street all day, every day. It's never gotten a ticket > either, > > even though our block has zone parking. Bottom line - the parking > > enforcers/attendants don't seem to care. > > For once I'm delight-- err, *shocked* that the bureaucratic machine > could hide such ineptitude. > I'm not so sure. I think they're just not supposed to touch the cover. I treat it as a portable garage. They can't go into my garage and check the status of my stickers. > > -Sean > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:03:56 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > although I agree 5-10 is a little extreme. 15 to 20 is > prolly reasonable. > I bet they have a lower failure rate with the transponders > when people slow down. The system around Atlanta is much better engineered -- you are required to slow to only 50 mph. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:05:14 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:05:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: She's baaaaack To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX The pressurizing sound is gone. They also replaced the fuel filter which may or may not have been on the replacement list for the checkup. The service manager was telling me about the various things he did. About half way through, I interrupted and told him that the work done wasn't real high on my peeved list. It was that they hadn't contacted me about the additional work and that the notes weren't in the computer system so that Chris could tell me what's up when someone called. Anyway. Off to write my letter. Later. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:19:59 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:18:51 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: EZ Pass revisited "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" wrote: > --- Paul Wilson wrote: > > although I agree 5-10 is a little extreme. 15 to 20 is > > prolly reasonable. > > I bet they have a lower failure rate with the transponders > > when people slow down. > > The system around Atlanta is much better engineered -- you > are required to slow to only 50 mph. > > -- Larry Yes, but in Atlanta 50 mph is like crawling! There's probably skid marks going in the toll booth as the average Atlanta loony driver makes a despirate attempt to scrub enough speed off to ping the toll recorder. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:20:12 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:20:12 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: It's ready To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:43 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >That's excluding the 10k check and sounds a lot more expensive than > >mine. The "$400 oil change" was part of the "about $1200" that I paid. > > The price I got wasn't exactly what you got, but it sounds ballpark if > you allow for the differences in the engine controller change. > 10k Service Parts: 68.21 10k Labor: 390.00 10k Total: 458.21 Stage 1 EFI Kit Air Cleaner: 139.95 EFI Cart: 149.95 Total: 289.90 Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 Total: 1198.06 There were another couple of fees bringing the total to $1256.98. > > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:40:43 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 11:39:35 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's ready Carl Schelin wrote: > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 03:43 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > >That's excluding the 10k check and sounds a lot more expensive than > > >mine. The "$400 oil change" was part of the "about $1200" that I paid. > > > > The price I got wasn't exactly what you got, but it sounds ballpark if > > you allow for the differences in the engine controller change. > > > > 10k Service Parts: 68.21 > 10k Labor: 390.00 > 10k Total: 458.21 > > Stage 1 EFI Kit > Air Cleaner: 139.95 > EFI Cart: 149.95 > Total: 289.90 > > Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 > > Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 > > Total: 1198.06 > > There were another couple of fees bringing the total to $1256.98. > > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Carl 10K check $458.21. Hmm... wonder if I'd get a special price for a combo 10K, 20K, 30K, and 40K!. Nonono, I haven't neglected the periodic checks. Periodically I check the bike - yupyupyup, it's a motorcycle, let's go ride! Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 11:59:14 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:59:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: It's ready To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > 10K check $458.21. Hmm... wonder if I'd get a special price for a combo > 10K, > 20K, 30K, and 40K!. Nonono, I haven't neglected the periodic checks. > Periodically I check the bike - yupyupyup, it's a motorcycle, let's go > ride! > That't ok Bill. Maybe when I get to your stage of life I'll have to go out to make sure it's a motorcycle too ;-) I'll get there. I've done some of the easier maintenance stuff and I am doing work on the other bikes. Just like it took many years before I was able to buy a Harley, it'll take a couple more before I'm able to fully wrench one. > Bill > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 12:08:23 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's ready Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:08:32 -0500 On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote Damn they hose your for labor! 195 labor for a slip on that probably takes like 20 minutes to put on. How much is it an hour for labor, I paid 49/hr at the place I take my bike for service. > Stage 1 EFI Kit > Air Cleaner: 139.95 > EFI Cart: 149.95 > Total: 289.90 > > Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 > > Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 > > Total: 1198.06 > > There were another couple of fees bringing the total to $1256.98. > > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 12:09:53 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 09:09:53 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: It's ready To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > > Damn they hose your for labor! 195 labor for a slip on that probably > takes > like 20 minutes to put on. How much is it an hour for labor, I paid > 49/hr at > the place I take my bike for service. > It's 65 per hour and the 195 was for both the efi and slip-ons. 3 hours labor. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 13:51:58 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:51:52 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: It's ready To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 03:43 PM 12/12/03 -0500, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > >That's excluding the 10k check and sounds a lot more > expensive than > > >mine. The "$400 oil change" was part of the "about > $1200" that I paid. > > > > The price I got wasn't exactly what you got, but it > sounds ballpark if > > you allow for the differences in the engine controller > change. > > > > 10k Service Parts: 68.21 > 10k Labor: 390.00 > 10k Total: 458.21 > > Stage 1 EFI Kit > Air Cleaner: 139.95 > EFI Cart: 149.95 > Total: 289.90 > > Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 > > Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 > > Total: 1198.06 > > There were another couple of fees bringing the total to > $1256.98. let me guess.... vasoline: 25.75 use charge (knee pads): 16.00 guaze pads: 17.17 -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 13:55:33 2003 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:55:27 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: It's ready To: Rob Sharp , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Rob Sharp wrote: > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin > wrote > > Damn they hose your for labor! 195 labor for a slip on > that probably takes > like 20 minutes to put on. 3 hrs @ $65 is what i figured. if this is bike has carbs, there was more involved in the stage 1 than installing slip-ons. if the bill was 3 hrs for installing slip-ons and a FI chip, that's outrageous. i don't pretend to know harleys so it'd be best to hear from the victim. > How much is it an hour for > labor, I paid 49/hr at > the place I take my bike for service. > > > Stage 1 EFI Kit > > Air Cleaner: 139.95 > > EFI Cart: 149.95 > > Total: 289.90 > > > > Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 > > > > Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 > > > > Total: 1198.06 > > > > There were another couple of fees bringing the total to > $1256.98. ===== Thomas H. Gimer MURPHY & GIMER, LLC 7940A Wisconsin Avenue Bethesda, MD 20814 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Dec 13 16:35:50 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Tom Gimer , Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's ready Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:35:59 -0500 Thats why I like to do stuff myself. :) Now that I said that I just ordered some Bridgestone BattleAxe BT-020's for my VFR. 35 a tire to install on the bike. I am gonna let the shop put on the tires. :) I had on Dunlop 207's when I got the VFR, but they were like 3 years old and supposedly had 9k miles on them, but they still had some tred. I did install the stage 2 jet kit and air filter, exhaust on my last bike. Exhaust is super dupe easy and the jet kit was easy to install as well. Hardest thing to put the airfilter and carbs back on again. Lots of stupid stuff to line up at the same time. Rob On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:55:27 -0800 (PST), Tom Gimer wrote > --- Rob Sharp wrote: > > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:20:12 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin > > wrote > > > > Damn they hose your for labor! 195 labor for a slip on > > that probably takes > > like 20 minutes to put on. > > 3 hrs @ $65 is what i figured. if this is bike has carbs, > there was more involved in the stage 1 than installing > slip-ons. if the bill was 3 hrs for installing slip-ons > and a FI chip, that's outrageous. i don't pretend to know > harleys so it'd be best to hear from the victim. > > > How much is it an hour for > > labor, I paid 49/hr at > > the place I take my bike for service. > > > > > Stage 1 EFI Kit > > > Air Cleaner: 139.95 > > > EFI Cart: 149.95 > > > Total: 289.90 > > > > > > Balony Cut Slip-ons: 254.95 > > > > > > Stage1/Slip-ons Labor: 195.00 > > > > > > Total: 1198.06 > > > > > > There were another couple of fees bringing the total to > > $1256.98. > > ===== > Thomas H. Gimer > MURPHY & GIMER, LLC > 7940A Wisconsin Avenue > Bethesda, MD 20814 > 301 913-0060 ext. 11; 301 913-5415 (fax) > http://www.murphygimer.com > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 14 04:44:43 2003 Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: Subject: NHTSA Job Vacancy - Motorcycle Safety Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 04:46:36 -0500 There was a recent job posting by the Washington Post for a job at NHTSA that appears to be the one that manages motorcycle safety initiatives for NHTSA. This is an excerpt from the listing. "Directs countermeasure programs development and related technical assistance relative to increasing pedestrian, bicycle, motorcycle, pupil transportation, and older road user safety and reducing injuries associated with these modes of transportation." Just in case somebody is job shopping. The closing date for applications is 1/5/2004. Kathleen Loerich -------------------------------------- Job Listing -------------------------------------- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wl/jobs/JS_JobSearchDetail?value=14489926 Summary Company Name: Federal Jobs (from USAJOBS) Job Title: PROGRAM MANAGER Job Status: Full-time Regular Job Code: Not Listed Industry: Government / Civil Service Job Function: Policy / Program Management Job Division: Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Education: Not Listed Years Experience Desired: Not Listed Salary/Hourly rate: Not Listed Job Location: Washington, DC 20001 Public Transportation | Driving Directions Contact Information: DARLENE PEOPLES Phone: 202-366-1784 Fax: 202-366-7402 Internet: DPEOPLES@XXXXXX Or write: Department Of Transportation ROOM 5306, 400 SEVENTH STREET,. S.W WASHINGTON, DC 20590 Date Posted: 12/9/03 Department: Department Of Transportation Agency: Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vacancy Announcement Number: NHTSA 04-18 CAREER OPPORTUNITY U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION ANNOUNCEMENT NUMBER: NHTSA 04-18 POSITION TITLE: Program Manager GS-340-15 $ 95,987 - 124,783 per year Position is at the full performance level POSITION LOCATION: Senior Associate Administrator for Traffic Injury Control, Associate Administrator for Program Development & Delivery, Office of Safety Programs, Safety Countermeasures Division, Washington, DC AREA OF CONSIDERATION: Open to All U.S. Citizens Applications will also be accepted from persons who qualify under non-competitive hiring authorities, such as, but not limited to, 30% or more compensable veterans and persons with disabilities. Veterans eligible for consideration under the Veterans Employment Opportunities Act may also apply. OPENING DATE: 12/04/2003 CLOSING DATE: 01/05/2004 NUMBER AND TYPE OF 1 Full Time Permanent Position POSITIONS Why Work For Us? Transportation impacts every facet of American life, providing people access to work, school, loved ones, and natures rich bounty. The U.S. Department of Transportation is committed to transportation excellence and strives to create the best possible integrated air, land, and sea transportation system for America. As a DOT employee, you will become a part of the dedicated workforce who work day-to-day to make measurable improvements in our transportation system, the security of our nation, and the quality of American life. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is an exciting and progressive organization, whose mission is to save lives and reduce injuries. We are interested in individuals who are committed to superior public service and who can help us continue to meet these high standards. Visit our website at www.nhtsa.dot.gov. Summary Of The Essential Job Functions Serves as the principal advisor to the Office Director on all activities related to the Division, setting guidelines, standards, goals and objectives for the accomplishments thereof. Directs countermeasure programs development and related technical assistance relative to increasing pedestrian, bicycle, motorcycle, pupil transportation, and older road user safety and reducing injuries associated with these modes of transportation. Determines organization, staffing, program and budgetary parameters necessary for the success of the Divisions mission. Provides support and assistance to State and community efforts, in addition to developing model statewide and community level program efforts nationwide. As a supervisor, must be sensitive to and support the objective of the Equal Opportunity Program and Plan of Action and the needs and aspirations of each individual employee. What Are The Minimum Qualifications For This Position? You must have at least one year of specialized experience in or directly related to the essential job functions described above. The one-year of specialized experience must have equipped the applicant with the knowledge, skills and abilities to perform successfully in the position. For Federal employees this experience must have been at the next lower grade level. If you want us to consider experience you obtained outside the Federal Government, it must have been at that same level of complexity. You must also have: Demonstrated knowledge and experience of Federal, state or local relationships and public safety programs and how they relate to safety countermeasure programs. (See page 3 under Desired Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities.) Other Special Job Requirements The position requires some travel. How Will The Qualified Applicants Be Further Evaluated And Rated To Identify The Best Qualified? If you are basically qualified for this job, you will be further evaluated on the quality and extent of your total accomplishments, experience and education related to the knowledge, skills and abilities listed below. We also may consider your performance appraisal, awards, and relevant training. Your ranking will measure the degree to which your background matches the demands of this position. If you are not a Federal employee, your application will be sent to the Office of Personnel Management for ranking and referral. What Are The Desired Knowledge, Skills And Abilities (KSAs) For This Job? Use bond paper to address how your experience relates to the following: Factor I. Demonstrated knowledge and experience of Federal, state or local relationships and public safety programs and how they relate to safety countermeasure programs. Factor II. Demonstrated ability to direct and manage human, financial, material and information resources to achieve results and accomplish the organizations mission. Factor III. Demonstrated skill in written communications, including writing reports, promotional copies, newsletter articles and speeches. Factor IV. Demonstrated ability to conduct strategic planning, set priorities and respond to tight deadlines. What Employee Benefits Do We Provide? The Federal Government offers excellent benefits, flexible work schedules and family-friendly programs. You will receive paid annual leave and sick leave. Depending on whether the position you are applying for is permanent or time limited, you will be eligible for retirement, health insurance, life insurance and Long Term Care insurance. A brief summary of the Federal benefits for permanent employees can be found at www.opm.gov/insure/health/index.asp Before You Go Any Further, Here Are Some Other Things You Need to Know: The KSA statements are mandatory. Applications received without KSA statements will not receive consideration for the vacancy. United States citizenship is required. Proof of citizenship will be required to be shown upon appointment. This position has no known promotional potential. This position is subject to the procurement integrity provisions as contained in Section 27 of the Office of Federal Procurement Policy Act (41 U.S.C. 423). If you are a male between the ages of 18 and 26 or were born after December 31, 1959, certification is required at the time you are employed that you have registered with the Selective Service for the draft, unless Selective Service has approved a waiver for you. Federal applicants must meet time-in-grade requirements by the closing date of this announcement. The "Area of Consideration" section shown on the first page indicates who may apply for this position. For example, if the area is "Open to all US Citizens," then anyone who is a US Citizen may apply. If the area is, "Open to All Federal Government Status Employees," you may apply if you have Civil Service Status or if you can be reinstated. If you can be appointed under a special appointment authority, please let us know on your application the special appointing authority for which you can be considered. Veterans who are preference eligibles or who have been separated from the armed forces under honorable conditions after 3 years or more of continuous active service are eligible to apply if the area of consideration is beyond the U. S. Department of Transportation. You must meet all of the qualifications requirements for this position by the closing date of this announcement. If you are selected for this position, you will be subject to a determination of your suitability for Federal employment. Qualified applicants will be mailed an Optional form 300, Qualifications Analysis and Appraisal of Candidates for Supervisory Positions, to be filled out by current employer or supervisor, and to be used as part of the application package. Relocation costs will not be paid. If selected, you will be required to file an initial and annual Confidential Statement of Employment and Financial Interests. If you are selected and have never been a supervisor in the Federal sector, you will have to serve a one-year supervisory probationary period. Before being hired you will be required to sign and verify the accuracy of the information in your application if you have not done so using an application form such as the OF 612. How To Apply For This Position 1) You may submit your current Resume, or an OF-612, Optional Application for Federal Employment. You may choose which form to submit provided it contains all required information. Required information is listed in the section below labeled Heres What Your Application Must Contain. Please be sure to indicate what grade level(s) you are applying for. 2) For consideration, tell us how you meet the "Knowledge, Skills and Abilities (KSAs)" for this position. The KSAs for this position are located on Page 3 of this announcement. 3) For Federal applicants, a complete performance appraisal is required. It must be current - meaning it was issued to you within the past year - and it must be official - meaning it appraises your performance over a normal rating cycle in your present job and has been signed by your supervisor. If you are unable to submit your current performance appraisal, please tell us why. You also must submit a copy of your latest SF-50 "Notification of Personnel Action that reflects career or career-conditional tenure. 4) If you are a Federal employee, and wish to be considered for selection priority under the Career Transition Assistance Program (CTAP) or the Interagency Career Transition Assistance Program (ICTAP), you must submit appropriate certification that you are eligible. Certification includes: a Reduction-in-Force Separation Notice, Reduction-in-Force Notification of Personnel Action, or a Certification of Expected Separation. You also must meet the jobs minimum qualifications and rate at least Well Qualified on the crediting plan for each knowledge, skill and ability requirement that is listed in this announcement. 5) If the vacancy announcements area of consideration is Open to All U.S. Citizens, and you are a current career or career-conditional Federal employee or former Federal employee who has reinstatement eligibility, and you wish to be considered under both Merit Promotion and Competitive Staffing Procedures, please submit two complete applications and indicate that you wish consideration under both processes. If one application is received, you will be considered under the Merit Promotion procedures only. Under these procedures, veterans do not receive the ranking advantage that governs the competitive examining process, and status applicants must meet the time-in-grade restrictions that do not apply to the competitive examining process. HERES WHAT YOUR APPLICATION MUST CONTAIN JOB INFORMATION Announcement number and title of the position PERSONAL INFORMATION Full name Mailing address (with Zip Code) Daytime and evening phone numbers Social Security Number Country of citizenship (This position requires United States citizenship) Veterans preference (Proof Required - Attach DD 214) Highest Federal civilian grade held (Proof Required-Attached SF-50) EDUCATION High School name, city, state, and date of diploma or GED College/University names, city, and state Major(s) Type and year of degree(s) received WORK EXPERIENCE(paid and unpaid) Job Title Duties and accomplishments Employers name and address (indicate if we may contact your current supervisor) Supervisors name and telephone number Starting and ending dates (month and year) Hours per week Salary and/or Grade (GS-or equivalent) OTHER QUALIFICATIONS Job-related training courses (title and year) Job-related skills (e.g., foreign languages, computer software/hardware, etc.) Job-related certificates and licenses (current only) Job-related honors, awards, and special accomplishments (e.g., memberships in professional or honor societies, leadership activities, public speaking, performance awards and publications - give dates) Privacy Act Requirements: The forms referenced in this announcement are used to determine applicants qualifications for the position and are authorized under 5 U.S.C. 3302 and 3361. Where To Send Your Application You may mail***, FEDEX, or UPS applications to the NHTSA Office of Human Resources, 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Room 5306, Washington, DC 20590. Hand deliver your application to 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Southwest Lobby, Washington, DC. (Non-DOT/Non-Federal Applicants) Internet: Dpeoples@XXXXXX If you are faxing your application, please limit the application to the requirements stipulated in the advertisement to a maximum of 20 pages and include a cover sheet. Our fax number is (202) 366-7402. ALL applications must be in our office by 5:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time on or before the announcement closing date. Applications mailed in a Government envelope will not be accepted. *** We do not discourage mailing applications, but be advised that the U. S. Government is experiencing problems with the mail delivery system. *** Questions? Call 202-366-1784 or TDD (202) 366-2602 or email us at www.nhtsa.dot.gov. Please reference the announcement number so we can help you more efficiently. ALTERNATIVE FORMATS: If you need a copy of this announcement in an alternative format to accommodate a disability, please contact one of the above numbers. REASONABLE ACCOMODATION: If you are requesting reasonable accommodation in connection with applying for this vacancy, please contact: Darlene Peoples (202-366-1784). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 14 18:27:11 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 15:26:38 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Pricing on extended warranties To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I don't know if this is 100% accurate but I thought it was a pretty stunning admission given without any prompting. My ZR7s is supposed to have the Kawasaki GT Protection Plan. But Kawi doesn't have a record of it but I have the signatures on the sheet saying the original and previous buyer signed for requesting it. A Bill of Sale would tell all I guess. In any event the Kawi Consumer person said the dealer is the one who buys the coverage and then simply charges the customer the profit they want to keep. Heh! I thought that was rather interesting. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Dec 14 21:28:04 2003 Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:26:48 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Pricing on extended warranties matthew patton wrote: > I don't know if this is 100% accurate but I thought it was a pretty > stunning admission given without any prompting. My ZR7s is supposed to > have the Kawasaki GT Protection Plan. But Kawi doesn't have a record of > it but I have the signatures on the sheet saying the original and > previous buyer signed for requesting it. A Bill of Sale would tell all > I guess. > > In any event the Kawi Consumer person said the dealer is the one who > buys the coverage and then simply charges the customer the profit they > want to keep. Heh! I thought that was rather interesting. > Interesting - yes. One more reason for my long list I use to state: EXTENDED WARRENTIES BLOW SMEGMA ENCRUSTED GOAT WEENIES! Bill - use to sell them in the boat bizz, may the various gods forgive me From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 02:15:10 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:07:15 -0500 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC parking conundrum Not every message, just those from top-posting, blind-as a bat assholes. Oh, and those from folks with something to say...present company excepted. -- Mike B. At 08:10 PM 12/12/03 -0500, rich hall wrote: >No need to page Bartman, he already replies to every email. > >>From: "Paul Wilson" >> >>Riddle me that Batman. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 05:57:11 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 02:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Bleh. Between my carved-up left index finger, sore right shoulder (tetanus shot, four rounds of trap), the crappy road conditions, and my right rear indicator going blooey halfway in, my morning so far has sucked. I'm beginning to think that it might be time to exercise the better part of valor and buy a cage. Bugger. Anyone else ride in today? Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 06:40:32 2003 Subject: Re: Bleh. From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Dec 2003 06:36:55 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 05:57, Fish Flowers wrote: > Between my carved-up left index finger, sore right shoulder (tetanus shot, > four rounds of trap), the crappy road conditions, and my right rear > indicator going blooey halfway in, my morning so far has sucked. > > I'm beginning to think that it might be time to exercise the better part > of valor and buy a cage. Bugger. > > Anyone else ride in today? > Well yea. I just got the hawg back. Of course I'm riding in. Ice skating in the 7/11 parking lot was fun but the rest of the trip wasn't a big deal. 'course, I don't see why some folks need coffee to wake up ;-) > Fish. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 08:29:11 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:29:02 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: anybody have a DRZ400E/S To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I be lookin' around for some strange reason. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 08:32:42 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 05:32:39 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: anybody have a DRZ400E/S To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have a 2001 "S model". Glenn --- matthew patton wrote: > I be lookin' around for some strange reason. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 09:21:41 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Bleh. Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:20:50 -0500 There have been way too many of these "who rode this morning" threads. :] That said, I'll chime in. Yep, no problems. Just a little slush on our side street and in the parking lot. I did *not* ride yesterday, however. :) How about a sidecar rig in lieu of a cage? Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" > Between my carved-up left index finger, sore right shoulder (tetanus shot, > four rounds of trap), the crappy road conditions, and my right rear > indicator going blooey halfway in, my morning so far has sucked. > > I'm beginning to think that it might be time to exercise the better part > of valor and buy a cage. Bugger. > > Anyone else ride in today? > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 09:37:47 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:34:34 -0500 From: Tom To: Julian Halton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Next Steps 1. go somewhere that has a multimeter (~$20 and up) 2. download/print http://www.electrexusa.com/Images/fault_finding.pdf 3. follow directions... 4. then fix A new battery and tender should be bought no matter what at this point. Without good info we won't be able to help much... just speculate. Tom de '98 VTR, Ex VFR owner. Julian Halton wrote: > >Should I buy a battery tender? >Should I buy a battery and swap it out? >Should I pay a store to pick up bike and check for other problems? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rob Sharp [mailto:rob@XXXXXX] >Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 2:52 PM >To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: 911 Update > >You should get a Honda if you want a trouble free bike. If my VFR dies, >I just replace the Voltage R/R. It's like a consumable part. :) > >I had a brand new 2001 S10 and it died on my 4 times, and I had the fuel >sending unti replaced 3 times. New shit shouldn't break but sometimes >it >just does. :( > >Regards, > >Rob > > >On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:47:12 -0500, Julian Halton wrote > > >>The Update >>- download Yamaha 2002 R6 manual from yamaha.com >>- cannot print. Read-only >>- memorize location of battery and fuses (six) >>- enlist help of one of the three decent human beings I work my day >>job with >>- arrive on Macomb street >>- even removing the toolkit (secured by rubber tubing) is challenging >>- remove seat (two bolts) >>- find fuse box- fiddle with it >>- pull out the fuses in order one by one >>- all fuses appear okay >>- check connections- no evident corrosion >>- turn key to on position- no neutral light but very weak headlights >>- re-attach seat >>- am already on top of hill >>- start in second gear >>- engine makes some noise but does not start >>- repeat ten times sometimes starting in neutral, others in second >>- cannot get engine to start >> >>Very sad as today would be a nice day to bike and am figuring >>Coleman's is going to charge arm and a leg. Thought these things only >>happened to Harley owners. >> >> > > >-- >Rob Sharp >1996 Honda VFR 750 >2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme >SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA >Network Security Engineer > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:10:35 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:10:28 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Burning gas from carbs ....can lead to housefire apparently. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1302&dept_id=181987&newsid=10656420&PAG=461&rfi=9 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:10:58 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. The lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about five minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After that I rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until tomorrow to ride. Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, introduce yourself and have a drink. Cheers From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:17:10 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 07:17:05 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sorry to hear this, I hope they lube you well before sticking it in. Glenn --- Julian Halton wrote: After that I > rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small > fee to have the > battery and charging system checked out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:20:12 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:21:30 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "Glenn Dysart" , 70 bucks to check the charging system, charge the battery and if there is some defect- bills to Yamaha warranty. So I do not believe I will be walking away from this encounter with a size 14 (ahem) -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 10:17 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Sorry to hear this, I hope they lube you well before sticking it in. Glenn --- Julian Halton wrote: After that I > rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the > battery and charging system checked out. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:28:33 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Dec 2003 10:24:56 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 10:17, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Sorry to hear this, I hope they lube you well before > sticking it in. > It's not called a "dealer service" for nothing (no, it's 65 per hour :-) > Glenn > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:28:56 2003 Subject: It's Christmas Season Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:28:49 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Everyone at work is pitching for donations for their favorite charity/nonprofit. I would like to know which nonprofit you give to and why. AMA? ABATE? Which are the easiest to get non-motorcyclists to give to? The next time one of my coworkers hits me up for donations, I'll have a countermove ready to play. :) Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 10:36:38 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:36:29 -0500 To: From: Troutman Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season At 10:28 AM 12/15/2003, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: >Everyone at work is pitching for donations for their favorite >charity/nonprofit. I would like to know which nonprofit you give to and >why. AMA? ABATE? AMA and NMA. Both organizations seem to be affecting positive change on the motoring laws. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org Support Legislation requiring Voter-Verified Paper Trail for 2004 Elections http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/348035553 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:10:44 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Julian Halton'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:15:42 -0500 The problem with that is: Battery Tender: $35 Multimeter: $20 Your cost to check charging systems and charge batteries forever: $55 If you found something wrong, Yamaha still fixes it under warranty. See our point? Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Julian Halton [SMTP:julian@XXXXXX] > > 70 bucks to check the charging system, charge the battery and if there > is some defect- bills to Yamaha warranty. > So I do not believe I will be walking away from this encounter with a > size 14 (ahem) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sorry to hear this, I hope they lube you well before sticking it in. > > Glenn > > --- Julian Halton wrote: > After that I > > rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the > > battery and charging system checked out. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:13:11 2003 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 15 Dec 2003 11:09:34 -0500 On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 10:28, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > Everyone at work is pitching for donations for their favorite > charity/nonprofit. I would like to know which nonprofit you give to > and why. AMA? ABATE? > > Which are the easiest to get non-motorcyclists to give to? The next > time one of my coworkers hits me up for donations, I'll have a > countermove ready to play. :) > > Witold > Sorry big guy. This year I sent a couple hundred in gifts off to http://www.penny-arcade.com/childsplay. My biggest complaint with any charity is the hundreds of dollars spent each year in trying to get me to give again. Find me a motorcycle charity that won't hammer me year after year for money and I might consider it. In the mean time, I prefer: http://va-bofh.livejournal.com?skip=30. It's much easier and I get a more immediate response. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:24:27 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:18:17 -0500 To: "Paul Wilson" , "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bleh. At 09:20 AM 12/15/03 -0500, Paul Wilson wrote: >How about a sidecar rig in lieu of a cage? Or training wheels? ;^) Maybe attach them to the outer corners of the engine guards? Just there for emergencies... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:29:09 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:27:22 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update At 10:12 AM 12/15/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. The >lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about five >minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After that I >rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the >battery and charging system checked out. Sounds like it's almost sure to be the battery. A jump start worked, so the starter motor, relays, switches, etc. are all fine, and it didn't die when you disconnected the jumper cables, so something is making electricity on the bike at a level that keeps the electronics happy. The fact that your battery ended up discharged despite your riding it, would seem to indicate that the battery won't take a charge anymore. New battery time. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:54:14 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 11:42:19 -0500 I thought when I suggested jumping it earlier you said you already had? I also thought you said you left your parking lights on? Used to do that all the time on a Yamaha Seca II, jumping it always was the cure. What's the name of the place where you tend bar? I'm in Arlington. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update >Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 > > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. The >lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about five >minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After that I >rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the >battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until tomorrow to >ride. >Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. > >If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday >evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the >Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, >introduce yourself and have a drink. > > >Cheers > _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 11:58:01 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:03:06 -0500 Read the manual. Many bikes have a fuse that is dedicated to the park feature. Remove the fuse if you do not wish to strand yourself. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: rich hall [SMTP:richallmc@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:42 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > I thought when I suggested jumping it earlier you said you already had? I > > also thought you said you left your parking lights on? Used to do that > all > the time on a Yamaha Seca II, jumping it always was the cure. > What's the name of the place where you tend bar? I'm in Arlington. > > >From: "Julian Halton" > >To: > >Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > >Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 > > > > > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF > >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. The > >lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about five > >minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After that I > >rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have the > >battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until tomorrow to > >ride. > >Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. > > > >If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday > >evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the > >Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, > >introduce yourself and have a drink. > > > > > >Cheers > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:06:03 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 09:05:55 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Cleaning out garage. GS500e race bike and LOTS of spares To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Everything is 20mi west of Chicago. Can deliver to points between Chicago and DC along interstates for a fee. '89 GS500 frame with 6K mile (1/2 season at summit point) '96 engine race bike - has Racetech GV, springs, Fox twin-clicker shock. Very usable BT-090 race tires. www.gsposse.com under 'mathew' has pics of me and the bike at Summit Point. $1800 2 sets of wheels + 1 extra front ($75/set of wheels) 1 set of usable BT-96's on a pair of rims (above) ($100 for the tires) Brand new BT-090 (1F, 2R) for $250 1 Fox TC shock $200 2 engines but don't know inner condition $150 each 2 gas tanks - purple ok, yellow is quite good Pile of parts to build a complete street bike from scratch (frame, bodywork, wheels, electrics, carbs, swingarms etc. - reduce wheel set count above by 1, engine by 1, gas tank by 1) Suggest you buy the whole "pile" for $800. Some assembly required. *grin* Shipping would probably be hefty for some of this stuff so suggest you come pick it up. Question, photo's, offers welcome. 703-980-6716 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:07:30 2003 Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:08:48 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: "rich hall" , Never jumped it. I did try to bump=start it. I may have confused bump and jump so I apologize. It is called Gua-rapo..live music, tapas and drinks the whole nine yards...so stop on by if ever anyone feels like chatting. In case I have to order a new battery.....I checked bikebandit.com and for the R6 specific 5FL-82100-00-00 BATTERY ASSY (GT9B- (off the yamaha website). BikeBandit wants $99.00 plus shipping. Coleman $124.00 -----Original Message----- From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:42 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update I thought when I suggested jumping it earlier you said you already had? I also thought you said you left your parking lights on? Used to do that all the time on a Yamaha Seca II, jumping it always was the cure. What's the name of the place where you tend bar? I'm in Arlington. >From: "Julian Halton" >To: >Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update >Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 > > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. >The lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about >five minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After >that I rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have >the battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until >tomorrow to ride. >Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. > >If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday >evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the >Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, >introduce yourself and have a drink. > > >Cheers > _________________________________________________________________ Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:09:25 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:08:12 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > Everyone at work is pitching for donations for their favorite charity/nonprofit. I would like to know which nonprofit you give to and why. AMA? ABATE? > > Which are the easiest to get non-motorcyclists to give to? The next time one of my coworkers hits me up for donations, I'll have a countermove ready to play. :) > > Witold Niether for me. Even though I know that;'s how the *system* works, I never give money to an orginization that is involved in political lobbying. Many moons ago I began to put a simple request to all orginizations requesting charitable contributions from me: Show me the numbers, as in your total income, admin and advert expenses, and the bottom line, how mny pennies out of my contribution dollar actually went to the charity. With rare exceptions, all those wonderful charities were so embarrassed over their bottom line, which ran as low a few percent for the biggies like United Way, that they refused to disclose the info. If you need a real checkbook closer, look at the salaries of the *charitable* organization's top executives. Shocking... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:16:36 2003 From: To: Subject: Re: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:16:28 -0500 how about this battery? http://www.motorcyclebatteriesusa.com/pages/products.asp?battery=3 scroll down about halfway. The Yuasa battery # for R1's is WP12B-4 $70. cheers, -aki > > From: "Julian Halton" > Date: 2003/12/15 Mon PM 12:08:48 EST > To: "rich hall" , > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > Never jumped it. I did try to bump=start it. I may have confused bump > and jump so I apologize. It is called Gua-rapo..live music, tapas and > drinks the whole nine yards...so stop on by if ever anyone feels like > chatting. > > In case I have to order a new battery.....I checked bikebandit.com and > for the R6 specific 5FL-82100-00-00 > BATTERY ASSY (GT9B- (off the yamaha website). BikeBandit wants > $99.00 plus shipping. Coleman $124.00 > > -----Original Message----- > From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:42 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > I thought when I suggested jumping it earlier you said you already had? > I also thought you said you left your parking lights on? Used to do > that all the time on a Yamaha Seca II, jumping it always was the cure. > What's the name of the place where you tend bar? I'm in Arlington. > > >From: "Julian Halton" > >To: > >Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > >Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 > > > > > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF > >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. > >The lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about > >five minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After > >that I rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have > > >the battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until > >tomorrow to ride. > >Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. > > > >If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday > >evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the > >Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, > >introduce yourself and have a drink. > > > > > >Cheers > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:22:58 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:28:05 -0500 http://www.yuasabatteries.com/search.asp 2000 R6 - model YT12B-BS Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: adamme1@XXXXXX [SMTP:adamme1@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:16 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > how about this battery? > > http://www.motorcyclebatteriesusa.com/pages/products.asp?battery=3 > > > scroll down about halfway. The Yuasa battery # for R1's > is WP12B-4 > > $70. > > cheers, > -aki > > > > > From: "Julian Halton" > > Date: 2003/12/15 Mon PM 12:08:48 EST > > To: "rich hall" , > > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > > > Never jumped it. I did try to bump=start it. I may have confused bump > > and jump so I apologize. It is called Gua-rapo..live music, tapas and > > drinks the whole nine yards...so stop on by if ever anyone feels like > > chatting. > > > > In case I have to order a new battery.....I checked bikebandit.com and > > for the R6 specific 5FL-82100-00-00 > > BATTERY ASSY (GT9B- (off the yamaha website). BikeBandit wants > > $99.00 plus shipping. Coleman $124.00 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rich hall [mailto:richallmc@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 11:42 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > > > I thought when I suggested jumping it earlier you said you already had? > > I also thought you said you left your parking lights on? Used to do > > that all the time on a Yamaha Seca II, jumping it always was the cure. > > What's the name of the place where you tend bar? I'm in Arlington. > > > > >From: "Julian Halton" > > >To: > > >Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update > > >Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:12:16 -0500 > > > > > > > > >Get to the bike on Saturday and took a chance. Hooked motorcycle (MF > > >type custom Yamaha Battery) to car battery with the car engine off. > > >The lights were blazing and I started the bike. Let it run for about > > >five minutes then rode it around until my fingers were purple. After > > >that I rode the bike to Coleman's where I am paying a small fee to have > > > > >the battery and charging system checked out. Have to wait until > > >tomorrow to ride. > > >Thanks to everyone on the list for their tips and assistance. > > > > > >If you are in the Arlington area ever on a Friday, Saturday or Monday > > >evening duck into the door at 2039 Wilson Boulevard (adjacent to the > > >Post Office) look for the guy behind the bar with the shaved head, > > >introduce yourself and have a drink. > > > > > > > > >Cheers > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home. > > http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx > > > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 12:30:50 2003 From: "Bruce N" To: , "Julian Halton" Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:31:19 -0500 X-SMTPD: qpsmtpd/0.26, http://develooper.com/code/qpsmtpd/ http://www.discountmotorcyclebattery.com/ $70.00 + $8.00 shipping. I've probably bought 8-10 batteries from them in the last year or two. Fast shipping. Factory sealed batteries. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" > In case I have to order a new battery.....I checked bikebandit.com and > for the R6 specific 5FL-82100-00-00 > BATTERY ASSY (GT9B- (off the yamaha website). BikeBandit wants > $99.00 plus shipping. Coleman $124.00 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 14:16:44 2003 Subject: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:18:02 -0500 From: "Julian Halton" To: So my phone rings at lunch.. Get a message to call about my bike. Seems that battery acid has destroyed the swing arm, drive chain...etc.. Total cost $1800.00 to $ 1900.00. Apparently YAMAHA is covering the tab. A warranty that actually works, amazing!!! I saw no damage but was wondering about my rusty chain. This is why I have avoided buying used in the past. I am bikeless for a few weeks...anybody need a bike ridden to keep the battery charged:)???? -----Original Message----- From: Bruce N [mailto:bcn@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:31 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Julian Halton Subject: Re: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update http://www.discountmotorcyclebattery.com/ $70.00 + $8.00 shipping. I've probably bought 8-10 batteries from them in the last year or two. Fast shipping. Factory sealed batteries. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" > In case I have to order a new battery.....I checked bikebandit.com and > for the R6 specific 5FL-82100-00-00 > BATTERY ASSY (GT9B- (off the yamaha website). BikeBandit wants > $99.00 plus shipping. Coleman $124.00 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 14:35:31 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:36:01 -0500 To: "Julian Halton" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued At 02:18 PM 12/15/03 -0500, Julian Halton wrote: >So my phone rings at lunch.. >Get a message to call about my bike. Seems that battery acid has >destroyed the swing arm, drive chain...etc.. Yow! Well, I guess that explains why your battery won't hold a charge anymore... >1900.00. Apparently YAMAHA is covering the tab. A warranty that >actually works, amazing!!! Points for them! Lucky for you! :^) Sorry, but I don't need my bike ridden to keep the battery charged. It's on the Battery Tender in the garage until the ice melts on the roads...and I get enough work completed to take a week or two off to go ride it! -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 14:39:41 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:36:26 -0500 From: Tom To: Julian Halton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued Julian Halton wrote: > > Seems that battery acid has >destroyed the swing arm, drive chain...etc.. Total cost $1800.00 to $ >1900.00. > > Colman wins again. tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:10:02 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Julian Halton" , Subject: Re: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:08:17 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julian Halton" > > > So my phone rings at lunch.. > Get a message to call about my bike. Seems that battery acid has > destroyed the swing arm, drive chain...etc.. Total cost $1800.00 to $ > 1900.00. Good heavens. Quite the payday for Coleman's. I hope they figure out what made the battery barf electrolyte in the first place, things like a failing R/R. Otherwise, it's just going to happen again. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:19:35 2003 Subject: RE: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:19:24 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Paul Wilson" , "Julian Halton" , Leaking battery is another one of 99-02 R6's unmentioned features. At first, Yamaha didn't want to pay for anything, but now they seem to be covering it under warranty. Basically, lots of rear end is replaced, including the swingarm. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 3:08 PM > To: Julian Halton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Happy I went to Coleman's 911 Biker Update Continued > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julian Halton" > > > > > > So my phone rings at lunch.. > > Get a message to call about my bike. Seems that battery acid has > > destroyed the swing arm, drive chain...etc.. Total cost > $1800.00 to $ > > 1900.00. > > Good heavens. Quite the payday for Coleman's. I hope they > figure out what > made the battery barf electrolyte in the first place, things > like a failing > R/R. Otherwise, it's just going to happen again. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:21:56 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:21:44 EST Subject: Re: Pricing on extended warranties To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/14/2003 6:27:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > In any event the Kawi Consumer person said the dealer is the one who > buys the coverage and then simply charges the customer the profit they > want to keep. I worked for a dealer who sold them. Kept _all_ of the money and charged any repairs to someone else's warranty. (They kept a list of bikes they had sold, to whom, and when the warranty would run out, it was a total scam.) (Unfortunately I only found out long after I had left so I had no way to nail the bastards.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:31:19 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:31:08 -0800 (PST) From: Hugh Caldwell Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > Everyone at work is pitching for donations for their > favorite charity/nonprofit. I would like to know > which nonprofit you give to and why. AMA? ABATE? > NASA. Because I believe that it does more for mankind then any other organization. ===== Hugh Caldwell http://www.twowheelsgood.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:36:01 2003 Subject: RE: It's Christmas Season Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:35:55 -0500 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Hugh Caldwell" , > -----Original Message----- > From: Hugh Caldwell [mailto:hughtwg@XXXXXX] > NASA. Because I believe that it does more for mankind > then any other organization. I contribute to NASA biweekly. Now I'm just looking for a motorcycle-related nonprofit. Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:38:49 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:38:52 -0500 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Pricing on extended warranties At 03:21 PM 12/15/03 EST, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >I worked for a dealer who sold them. Kept _all_ of the money and charged any >repairs to someone else's warranty. (They kept a list of bikes they had sold, >to whom, and when the warranty would run out, it was a total scam.) I would have thought they'd get caught when some customer took his bike elsewhere for extended warranty work, and got told he didn't have one. Were they just lucky? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 15:51:32 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:51:12 -0500 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season From: Randy Moran To: Hugh Caldwell , DC Cycles Hugh and other DCCyclists interested in space/aeronautics, I just got back from the Udvar-Hazy center out at Dulles. An incredible museum which should be fairly empty during this, its premier week. Bonus: the parking fee collection booths are still unmanned so you can skate on the $12 parking fee for a a couple days, looks like. They have the shuttle Enterprise and some other space stuff, plus the SR-71 and a whole lot of other cool crap. Get there as soon as you can! Randy Moran On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 03:31 PM, Hugh Caldwell wrote: > NASA. Because I believe that it does more for mankind > then any other organization. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 16:27:51 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:27:31 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season At 03:51 PM 12/15/2003, you wrote: >you can skate on the $12 parking fee for a a couple days, looks like. $12 ?!?! Around Dulles? No one charges for parking out here except the airport itself. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 16:40:44 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:40:24 -0500 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To: Troutman From: Randy Moran nah, the museum will be charging for parking according to its web-site. 12 smacks. From the site: "Parking: The center)B’s parking lot can accommodate 2,000 vehicles. There is a $12 fee for daily parking and a $50 fee for an unlimited yearly parking pass. Visitors may also be dropped off and picked up at the center)B’s entrance at no charge. There is also free parking for up to 40 buses." RPM On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 04:27 PM, Troutman wrote: > At 03:51 PM 12/15/2003, you wrote: >> you can skate on the $12 parking fee for a a couple days, looks like. > > $12 ?!?! Around Dulles? No one charges for parking out here except > the airport itself. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 17:34:55 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: It's Christmas Season Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:34:47 -0500 I was there last week - definitely a good place to visit ($12 for parking notwithstanding) FWIW - they're going to run a shuttle from the Mall museum to the Dulles annex for $7.00. I assume that is a one-way fare, but ya never know. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 17:44:10 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: RE: 911 Biker needs Assistance Weekend Update Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:44:03 -0500 Julian, I, for one, would like to hear what the root cause was on this. TIA Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 17:46:30 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Jordan" , "dc-cycles list" Subject: NASM Dulles, was Re: It's Christmas Season Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:45:34 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Jordan" > I was there last week - definitely a good place to visit ($12 for parking > notwithstanding) > > FWIW - they're going to run a shuttle from the Mall museum to the Dulles > annex for $7.00. I assume that is a one-way fare, but ya never know. > > Michael J. > $7 round trip bus fare according to the WaPo. You'll have plenty of time to get caught up on your crossword puzzles during that trip. Looong. I wonder if they have a special parking rate for bikes? :-) [Required moto content] I wonder why they call the Dulles museum the "Annex"? Seems to be quite the opposite, in terms of size. Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 17:47:30 2003 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:47:02 -0500 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season X-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information From their website: "A **round-trip** shuttle bus has been established between the museum)B’s flagship building in Washington D.C. and the Udvar-Hazy Center with a $7 charge per passenger, $5 per passenger for groups of 10 or more." I read that as $7 to get there and back. Even if it's $7 each way, that's the cheapest way to get from DC to Dulles Airport! A mass transportation wormhole/loophole... -Sean Michael Jordan wrote: > I was there last week - definitely a good place to visit ($12 for parking > notwithstanding) > > FWIW - they're going to run a shuttle from the Mall museum to the Dulles > annex for $7.00. I assume that is a one-way fare, but ya never know. > > Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 17:51:32 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: , , Subject: He's Baaaack Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:37:52 -0500 With yet another motorcycle masterpiece for your viewing pleasure. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448756945 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Dec 15 20:09:22 2003 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:09:14 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: He's Baaaack To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Michael Jordan wrote: > With yet another motorcycle masterpiece for your viewing pleasure. > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448756945 > While I laugh along with him, a motorcycle head with a clear title is worth a couple of bucks. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 06:16:18 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'Stephen!'" , , , Subject: RE: LDRider: He's Baaaack Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:16:09 -0500 >> With yet another motorcycle masterpiece for your viewing pleasure. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? >> ViewItem&item=2448756945 > >"The item you requested ( ) is invalid, still pending, or no longer in our database. >Please check the number and try again." > >Can you describe it to those of us who were too slow on the uptake? It's still there and active - one may have to cut aqnd paste the split URL into one line Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 07:16:53 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:16:50 -0800 (PST) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I agree, that is criminal. Glad I went before the place opened, although the shuttle and the SR-71 were not in place it was cool to see the Anola Gay being assembled several feet in front of me. Glenn --- Troutman wrote: > At 03:51 PM 12/15/2003, you wrote: > >you can skate on the $12 parking fee for a a couple > days, looks like. > > $12 ?!?! Around Dulles? No one charges for parking > out here except the > airport itself. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 07:21:25 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:21:22 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: He's Baaaack To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > --- Michael Jordan wrote: > > > With yet another motorcycle masterpiece for your viewing pleasure. > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448756945 > > > > > > > While I laugh along with him, a motorcycle head with a clear title is > > worth a couple of bucks. > > > > Carl > > AHA! Now we know who the git from the USA is who bid on it! > Nah, they're not worth that much. I just sold off my Honda head to some guy in Wisconson for 40 bucks. I guess they etch the number into the head they have and register it from there. > P.S. Carl. I have a `72(`73?) Honda 500F over here. Engine is blown > but the rest of the scoot is rather sweet. Good title from CA. > You might pop over to http://www.hondachopper.com, click on the "Community" link (ezboard) and post it on the appropriate board. Someone may have a use for it. > Bill > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 07:23:00 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 04:22:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: LDRider: He's Baaaack To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Just search on the item number: 2448756945 Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 07:30:37 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 07:29:21 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: Glenn Dysart CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Air & Space use to give (maybe still do) group tours of their Silver Hill MD facility where they store and restore planes for exhibits. If so, maybe one of our dc-cycles tour guides can arrainge a trip over there this summer. Those of you into restoration, planes, and wrenching will get a kick out of it. Like the first jet used in combat, the German one, was made out of plywood! Less trash to clean up when it crashed and burned I reckon... Bill Glenn Dysart wrote: > I agree, that is criminal. Glad I went before the > place opened, although the shuttle and the SR-71 were > not in place it was cool to see the Anola Gay being > assembled several feet in front of me. > > Glenn > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 07:36:48 2003 From: To: Subject: Re: Re: It's Christmas Season Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 7:36:39 -0500 > Air & Space use to give (maybe still do) group tours of their Silver > Hill MD facility where they store and restore planes for exhibits. I (finally) went over there about a year ago. Most of the facility was closed to visitors as they were packing it up to ship to Dulles. I don't believe that the Garber facility is open to the public anymore. Shame - it was an absolutely great place to poke around in. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 08:16:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:16:18 EST Subject: Re: Pricing on extended warranties To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 12/15/2003 3:39:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > I would have thought they'd get caught Damn near did. No less then the FBI raided the joint, taking everything they could find. (I knew it was coming and "dropped" by to watch.) Unfortunately they had been tipped off by someone else who knew it was coming and the FBI found nothing useful. They had spent the night before the raid burning all their incriminating papers. As for taking the work elsewhere extended warrantees are not _factory_ warrantees. If you were local at all you had to take the bike to them, and as for the rare out of state claim, they could afford to pay it with _lots_ left over. (and that assumes they could not find an excuse not to pay it at all. These guys were CROOKS!) They long ago sold the business for a HUGE profit and are now living high on the hog. So much for "just deserts." John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 09:50:04 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 06:49:50 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Help, my bike fell over onto another - the Aftermath To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Today I hand him a check for $104. He got his parts from Service Honda and decided he could do his own work after all. Bravo I say. Thanks for all the commentary about this matter. ===== "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you." Ephesians 4:32 Hurt and disappointment enter every marriage from time to time. When this happens, we choose to either forgive or develop resentment. Love will not last if we do not learn to forgive. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 11:28:18 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 08:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: DC Parking; Dead batteries To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Catching up on a few days of archives -- 1) According to the DMV weenie I asked when registering my bike, _no_ residential parking permit is needed for a motorcycle in DC. Hence no need to put that big ugly sticker anywhere. I have yet to receive a ticket, even in my heavily patrolled Adams-Morgan neighborhood. (But, of course, I also don't have a safety inspection sticker on the bike, and haven't gotten a ticket for that either. I had it inspected, but it fell off and I haven't bothered to replace it.) 2) Two quick hints for dealing with a dead battery. -- As mentioned in passing, and as Julian did, DO NOT jump start your bike with a car unless the car's engine is OFF. Otherwise, the amperage put out by the powerful alternator in the car will likely eat your bike's precious wiring loom and EFI 'puter. -- When bump-starting, once the engine catches, be prepared to pull in the clutch fast and give the bike gas. It makes for a smoother start (less bucking/engine-braking/shoulder dislocating). BTW, I have heard many tales of an EFI bike being bump-started without problem, but that's with a "slightly dead" battery, not a DEAD DEAD battery. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:00:27 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Aaron'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Dead batteries Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:05:34 -0500 If someone can offer an explanation on this I'd love to hear it. Batteries are capable of spewing out a lot more amps than an alternator, no? Batteries are rated for CCA (cold cranking amps) in the 600 range. That's 600 amps pumping out of a cold battery. A standard alternator in a car is like 80 amp output with "heavy duty" optional alternator in the 140 amp range. Why would there be more amps with the car running? Why wouldn't there only be as many amps flowing as the load on the circuit requires (i.e. the starter needs 40A to spin, so it only sucks 40A + ignition sys load ~10A = 50A load on cables) regardless of alternator running or not? I'd be willing to bet CCA on a MC battery is in the ~250 range. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Aaron [SMTP:jarvis22201@XXXXXX] > > Catching up on a few days of archives -- > > 2) Two quick hints for dealing with a dead battery. > > -- As mentioned in passing, and as Julian did, DO NOT > jump start your bike with a car unless the car's > engine is OFF. Otherwise, the amperage put out by the > powerful alternator in the car will likely eat your > bike's precious wiring loom and EFI 'puter. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:08:26 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:07:15 -0500 To: "William J. Huson" , Glenn Dysart From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 07:29 AM 12/16/03 -0500, William J. Huson wrote: >Like the first jet used in combat, the German one, was made out of plywood! ME-262? What our fighter pilots used to call "Blow Jobs"? The one that Hitler decided should be used as a bomber to attack England (it was a lousy bomber, but an outstanding fighter)? And while the best fighter in the world was being mis-used at his orders, our bombers (which were pretty good for the time) blew up the factories he needed to make more of them...good thing for us he decided he knew what he was doing, or our bombers would more than likely have been wiped out and he'd have still had his ME-262 factories (and his oil refineries, and his ball bearing plants, and...). An early example of what happens when a politician gets involved in military decisions...too bad our Congress didn't figure that one out before Vietnam... I agree that $12 parking for a museum at Dulles is ridiculous. I hope they have some cheaper motorcycle parking. I'd hate to have to buy a bus to get free parking... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:35:03 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:34:53 -0500 From: Lordorange@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: NASM Dulles X-AOL-IP: 65.242.69.3 > $12 ?!?! Around Dulles? No one charges for parking out here except > the airport itself. Actually, they charge for parking because the museum is on Dulles Airport property. Dulles has a requirement to pay for parking; not that the Smithsonian minds getting a share of the revenue :-) Moto-content: I had fun running my bike around the access roads around the main hangar at the museum before all the tourists started showing up :-) -Matt From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:36:14 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:36:12 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Subject: Re: Dead batteries To: Michael Lynch , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Good question. My guess -- when running, car alternators put out a higher voltage than bike alternators. (Now, I know this isn't true for all bikes, but certainly common enough to develop the common wisdom I spewed to the list.) The thought is that the extra voltage from the car's system could have any number of detrimental effects on the wussier bike electrics. One I've heard mentioned allegorically is that the high voltage fries the diodes that normally prevent the bike's battery from running the alternator as a motor. Have I ever had any problems like this? Nope. But I see no reason not to jump start the bike with the car engine off in order to be safe. ==============(in-depth reasoning, for the gearhead in all of us, and to catch up with the Bartman in the stats race)=============== http://www.shadowriders.org/faq/jumpstarting.html The issue is that cars (and 'wings and a very few other bikes) have a different type of alternator than our Shadows (and most other motorcycles) have. Basic theory idea, for those who came in late: Generators of all types make electricity by moving a magnetic field relative to a coil of wire. The stronger the magnetic field and the faster it moves, the more electricity is generated. The moving part is usually called an armature or rotor. The stationary part is called a stator. The typical car alternator is an excited field type. The magnetic field is created by an electromagnet in the rotor. Supply voltage is controlled by the amount of current going through the electromagnet. Most big AC generators are made this way. If an external power source is applied of a higher voltage than the regulator setpoint is applied to the system, the regulator will recognize the system voltage as being above setpoint and turn the field magnet (usually rotor) off. Result: No problem, as long as the applied voltage isn't so high as to damage anything (typically 25 V or higher on a 12V system). So you can (usually) jump start a car with another car, or a GoldWing without any problems. Now the bad news: Most motorcycles don't use an electromagnet to create the magnetic field. Instead ,we have a drum-shaped rotor (usually on the crankshaft) with several permanent magnets placed inside (a magneto). These magnets moving past the stator coils create the electricity we need to run the lights, charge the battery, etc. But you can't change the strength of a permanent magnet. So regulating the generator output is not a straightforward issue of turning the field magnet strength up or down. The motorcycle voltage regulators I've seen all take the approach of shunting excess generated power to ground. This has the advantage of making sure that the voltage is the same everywhere in the system, but the disadvantage of meaning that the stator is always flowing its maximum rated supply current. This, I think, is why many motorcycles have a reputation for frying stators. So the design of one of these regulators is completely different from a cage regulator. It has a voltage detection part, like the other regulators, but the big resistor/power transistor package has to be strong enough to carry all the possible excess power generation to ground. It handles a lot more power than the car regulator has to. It generates a lot of heat as it does this, which is why the regulator on my '85 VT1100 is finned and out in the open air--to carry off the heat before it cooks something in or around the regulator. A typical bike magneto makes 30-50 amps at max power. So the regulator is designed to dissipate a maximum of about 700 watts for short periods (this would be full power and no loads on the bike--the battery and lights are all missing). In practice, this cooks the regulator pretty fast--they don't like to dissipate more than about 200 watts for any length of time. Now consider what happens when your moto regulator is doing a good job keeping the system at a nominal 14.1 volts when running, but the battery is weak, so you have to jump-start it on cold mornings. You hook up the bike to your Toyota with a 95 amp alternator (max output about 1400 watts). The Toyota's voltage regulator keeps *its* system at a cozy 14.3 volts when the engine is running. We now have a problem. The cage's alternator and regulator want to maintain the system at 14.3 volts. Your bike's regulator, the instant the system is turned on, is going to try to bleed off excess voltage from the system to keep it at 14.1 volts. The car's alternator is rated for 1400 watts. The bike's regulator can dissipate a maximum of 700 for (very) short periods before it cooks itself. It's a tug of war, and the bike regulator ALWAYS loses. Moral of the story--jump-start your bike from a non-running cage. The quiescent voltage of a car (or bike) battery is in the 13.2-13.8 volt range. The only result of this is that the full output of the bike's magneto will go into the cage and moto batteries once the bike starts. This actually reduces the load on the regulator to near zero, so it's quite happy with this state of affairs. Corrolary: Want to reduce the load on your bike's voltage regulator? Install MORE (or brighter) lights. No kidding. Since the regulator only handles power output beyond the bike's demands, installing more demands means that the regulator does less (and is happier). The stator does the same amount of work in either case, so no problem there. Be forewarned, though, that Honda didn't exactly break the bank on copper for the wire in our bikes. It's sized to work just right with no corroded connectors and the stock loads. You need to run larger/more supply wires from the battery if you intend to use significantly more power than does the stock system. --- Michael Lynch wrote: > If someone can offer an explanation on this I'd love > to hear it. Batteries > are capable of spewing out a lot more amps than an > alternator, no? > Batteries are rated for CCA (cold cranking amps) in > the 600 range. That's > 600 amps pumping out of a cold battery. A standard > alternator in a car is > like 80 amp output with "heavy duty" optional > alternator in the 140 amp > range. > > Why would there be more amps with the car running? > Why wouldn't there only > be as many amps flowing as the load on the circuit > requires (i.e. the > starter needs 40A to spin, so it only sucks 40A + > ignition sys load ~10A = > 50A load on cables) regardless of alternator running > or not? > > I'd be willing to bet CCA on a MC battery is in the > ~250 range. > > Mike > 98 XR400 > 96 VFR > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Aaron [SMTP:jarvis22201@XXXXXX] > > > > Catching up on a few days of archives -- > > > > 2) Two quick hints for dealing with a dead > battery. > > > > -- As mentioned in passing, and as Julian did, DO > NOT > > jump start your bike with a car unless the car's > > engine is OFF. Otherwise, the amperage put out by > the > > powerful alternator in the car will likely eat > your > > bike's precious wiring loom and EFI 'puter. > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:49:02 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Michael Lynch" , "'Aaron'" , Subject: Re: Dead batteries Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:47:29 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lynch" > If someone can offer an explanation on this I'd love to hear it. Batteries > are capable of spewing out a lot more amps than an alternator, no? > Batteries are rated for CCA (cold cranking amps) in the 600 range. That's > 600 amps pumping out of a cold battery. A standard alternator in a car is > like 80 amp output with "heavy duty" optional alternator in the 140 amp > range. > > Why would there be more amps with the car running? Why wouldn't there only > be as many amps flowing as the load on the circuit requires (i.e. the > starter needs 40A to spin, so it only sucks 40A + ignition sys load ~10A = > 50A load on cables) regardless of alternator running or not? > > I'd be willing to bet CCA on a MC battery is in the ~250 range. > > Mike Yep, Mike, according to our old friend Ohm's Law, the "donee" bike will only draw as much current as it needs from the "donor" electrical system. If your starter motor has a short in it or something, then I agree, connecting it to a larger cage battery/car charging system could be detrimental to the bike's wiring and starter relay, i.e., melt-o-rama. The point about having the car running, it seems to me, is that it's simply unnecessary. On the other hand, some people go even farther and say, "never jump a bike from a car" due to the disparate size of their electrical systems. If those folks were correct, I could never connect my house to the power grid. As they say, DC is DC, and volts is volts. It's the voltage that's important. It's one of my pet theories that a lot of this got started when cages were 12v and bikes were generally 6v. Any old timers care to enlighten us? :) Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 12:54:02 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Aaron" , "Michael Lynch" , Subject: Re: Dead batteries Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 12:53:09 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron" To: "Michael Lynch" ; Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Dead batteries > Good question. My guess -- when running, car > alternators put out a higher voltage than bike > alternators. (Now, I know this isn't true for all > bikes, but certainly common enough to develop the > common wisdom I spewed to the list.) > I'm not sure this holds up to real world scrutiny. My VFR's charging voltage is routinely in the 14-14.5V range. Regards, Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 16:54:26 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mike Bartman , "William J. Huson" , Glenn Dysart Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 16:54:37 -0500 Maybe you could get one of those short buses. :-D Rob > I agree that $12 parking for a museum at Dulles is ridiculous. I > hope they have some cheaper motorcycle parking. I'd hate to have to > buy a bus to get free parking... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation > Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options > Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *------------------------------ > --------------------------------------------* * "We do it > all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 18:06:47 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 18:06:30 -0500 To: "Rob Sharp" , "William J. Huson" , Glenn Dysart From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would qualify for the bus rate? -- Mike B. At 04:54 PM 12/16/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Maybe you could get one of those short buses. :-D >> I agree that $12 parking for a museum at Dulles is ridiculous. I >> hope they have some cheaper motorcycle parking. I'd hate to have to >> buy a bus to get free parking... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 18:36:51 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:36:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would > qualify for the bus rate? > No no, that's not OCC. That's Jesse James. OCC does family warfare and makes expensive custom bikes for other people. Jesse James does the "watch what I can get other people do" and makes expensive custom bikes for other people ;-) > -- Mike B. > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Dec 16 20:57:53 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:57:46 -0500 I love that show man. It so fun to watch em fight. Plus it's fun to see the stuff they build. rob On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:36:48 -0800 (PST), Carl Schelin wrote > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would > > qualify for the bus rate? > > > > No no, that's not OCC. That's Jesse James. OCC does family warfare > and makes expensive custom bikes for other people. Jesse James does > the "watch what I can get other people do" and makes expensive > custom bikes for other people ;-) > > > -- Mike B. > > > > Carl > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. > http://photos.yahoo.com/ -- Rob Sharp 1996 Honda VFR 750 2003 Chevy S10 Xtreme SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 01:00:49 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 01:00:18 -0500 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season At 03:36 PM 12/16/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would >> qualify for the bus rate? > >No no, that's not OCC. That's Jesse James. OCC does family warfare and >makes expensive custom bikes for other people. Jesse James does the "watch >what I can get other people do" and makes expensive custom bikes for other >people ;-) Good point. I was thinking "theme bike", but you're right, it is more of a "Monster Garage" project. It would be nice to see OCC build a bike without a fight along the way though... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 01:23:38 2003 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 20:36:49 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: who could make me custom caliper mounting brackets? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX All of my bikes have the narrow caliper mounting holes for cheap sliding-pin 2-pot calipers. In a moment of ill-advised weakness I sourced 2 sets of nice Nissin and Tokiko calipers but they have wide mounting holes. I would like to utilize them. Where can I get the appropriate mounting brackets designed and made? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 01:34:01 2003 From: David Cross Subject: MSF Instructor training Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:22:00 -0500 To: dccycles I seem to remember folks recruiting for MSF instructors on the list during this time of year in the past. I would be interested in getting any info if those folks are still on the list. Regards, David From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 06:00:36 2003 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Dec 2003 05:56:54 -0500 On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 01:00, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:36 PM 12/16/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would > >> qualify for the bus rate? > > > >No no, that's not OCC. That's Jesse James. OCC does family warfare and > >makes expensive custom bikes for other people. Jesse James does the "watch > >what I can get other people do" and makes expensive custom bikes for other > >people ;-) > > Good point. I was thinking "theme bike", but you're right, it is more of a > "Monster Garage" project. > > It would be nice to see OCC build a bike without a fight along the way > though... > Well yea but then it wouldn't be entertainment for the masses and who wants to have tv shows that are only informative? That's for Speed channel. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 06:03:40 2003 Subject: Re: It's Christmas Season From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 17 Dec 2003 06:00:03 -0500 On Wed, 2003-12-17 at 01:00, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 03:36 PM 12/16/03 -0800, Carl Schelin wrote: > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Hmmm...I wonder if we could get OCC to design a "bus chopper" that would > >> qualify for the bus rate? > > > >No no, that's not OCC. That's Jesse James. OCC does family warfare and > >makes expensive custom bikes for other people. Jesse James does the "watch > >what I can get other people do" and makes expensive custom bikes for other > >people ;-) > > Good point. I was thinking "theme bike", but you're right, it is more of a > "Monster Garage" project. > > It would be nice to see OCC build a bike without a fight along the way > though... > Oh and I do like watching them build bikes. They're interesting and they do build them fast (it doesn't take them two years to build a cheap bike; but then again someone didn't pay me 50k to 75k to build it :-) The Osbournes County Choppers. Just press "mute". > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 16:48:31 2003 Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 13:48:27 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Now you did it. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Now that you said no more "I rode in" messages the board is quiet. FYI, the message from Bill showed up here but not at my other account. Perhaps the list is temporarily down. It was a bit wet going in this morning and a bit chilly coming home. Two people decided they wanted to be where I was. Fortunately I was watching and they got horns and a pass at the first opportunity. Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Dec 17 17:47:54 2003 Reply-To: "Kathleen Loerich" From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: "David Cross" , "dccycles" Subject: Re: MSF Instructor training Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:49:04 -0500 If you are interested MSF instructor training in Maryland, contact Phil Sause who is the Maryland Motorocycle Safetey Program Manager. His e-mail address is psause@XXXXXX Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cross" To: "dccycles" Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:22 AM Subject: MSF Instructor training > I seem to remember folks recruiting for MSF instructors on the list > during this time of year in the past. I would be interested in getting > any info if those folks are still on the list. > > Regards, > > David > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 08:28:22 2003 Subject: West Virginia From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 18 Dec 2003 08:24:44 -0500 But not biking. We're heading over to WV tomorrow for a couple of days of skiing. All the thrills of canyon carving without the safety equipment :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 13:47:05 2003 To: DC Cycles From: Sunil Doshi Subject: DC Parking Laws Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:46:57 -0500 Can anyone help me understand the Motorcycle Parking Laws in DC? I park at the meters on 15th St. and I St. NW. That area has historically been free to park at. Near the end of the summer, everyone started getting tickets. The problem is that the meters there are routinely broken, so even if you want to pay, sometimes you can't. I ran into a parking officer once and asked them what the rules were for that spot. She told me that you can park there for free, but only for 4 hours at a time. She intimated that if you move the bike to another spot then you would be fine. I've been doing this since that time, and have still received some tickets. Is there a place near that part of town where I can park, follow the rules, and not get ticketed? These tickets cost more than my monthly costs for the bike! sunil http://widepipe.org/ride/ '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 14:00:51 2003 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:00:48 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: chain of security chain, chain, chain ... chain of security I'm seeking a heavy-duty chain to lock my bikes to my trailer. About 10 ft. long, plastic coated, hard to cut. Found coated 5/16 in. chain at Home Depot for about $3.50/ft. Not sure how good that would be at resisting cutters or saws. Anybody have any ideas? thanks, Chris Norloff From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 14:01:00 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Sunil Doshi'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: DC Parking Laws Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:06:07 -0500 THERE ARE NO PARKING LAWS. They will ticket your ass whenever they feel like it, for any reason. There is no rhyme or reason. You will continue to get tickets. You have no recourse. No amount of bike moving, meter feeding, sign reading, or moving and shaking will keep you from the ruthless revenue generators. They do what they want. Mike 98 XR400 96 VFR 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Sunil Doshi [SMTP:sdoshi@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:47 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: DC Parking Laws > > Can anyone help me understand the Motorcycle Parking Laws in DC? > > I park at the meters on 15th St. and I St. NW. That area has > historically been free to park at. Near the end of the summer, everyone > started getting tickets. The problem is that the meters there are > routinely broken, so even if you want to pay, sometimes you can't. > > I ran into a parking officer once and asked them what the rules were > for that spot. She told me that you can park there for free, but only > for 4 hours at a time. She intimated that if you move the bike to > another spot then you would be fine. I've been doing this since that > time, and have still received some tickets. > > Is there a place near that part of town where I can park, follow the > rules, and not get ticketed? These tickets cost more than my monthly > costs for the bike! > > sunil > http://widepipe.org/ride/ > '03 Honda Shadow ACE 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 14:08:23 2003 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:08:05 -0500 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: DC Parking Laws At 01:46 PM 12/18/2003, Sunil Doshi wrote: >Is there a place near that part of town where I can park, follow the >rules, and not get ticketed? Sure! Virginia and Maryland. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 14:48:34 2003 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:48:08 -0500 To: , "List-dc cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain of security At 02:00 PM 12/18/03 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >chain, chain, chain ... chain of security > >I'm seeking a heavy-duty chain to lock my bikes to my trailer. About 10 ft. long, plastic coated, hard to cut. > >Found coated 5/16 in. chain at Home Depot for about $3.50/ft. Not sure how good that would be at resisting cutters or saws. > >Anybody have any ideas? How secure are you going for? Just trying to stop the casual thief? Hardware store chain would probably work, but bolt cutters will generally cut it easily, so anyone who's prepared won't be slowed much at all. Serious thieves will have bolt cutters, some sort of refrigerant gas to spray on to make locks brittle, and perhaps the ability to take the bike on the trailer for later removal. You can make it arbitrarily hard to steal, but not impossible. Making it harder than the next bike along the way is probably good enough though. Kryponite makes chains for locking bikes. Very heavy stuff, and in a sleeve to limit scratching things. Haven't seen it over 6' long though. Battley's has it, and I'm sure most moto places carry it or something like it. Not cheap though. They also have coated cable locks, and I think some of those get up around 10' long. Most of the chain you'll find at hardware stores is probably made of fairly mild steel. (If you have a grinding wheel you can test it...dull orange sparks mean mild steel (low carbon content, i.e. fairly soft and easy to cut). Yellow sparks are higher carbon content, and bright white ones are tool steel...unlikely to be found in chain at the hardware store.). If you can find a chain you like, but isn't coated with anything, you can get vinyl tubing at Home Despot and Lowes. I've seen it around 1" diameter, and they may have larger. Slip the chain though that and you'll have decent protection. The 1" stuff is about $1/foot. There's also that dipping rubber stuff they sell for coating tool handles. Probably more trouble than it's worth for a chain though. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Dec 18 15:18:39 2003 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:18:27 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" , Mike Bartman Subject: Re: chain of security Thanks for the info. I particularly like the bit about telling the carbon content of the steel by the color of the sparks. No chain is thief-proof, of course, but I want to stop casual thief and slow down a prepared thief. So I figure more than a hardware store chain, but perhaps less than a Kryptonite chain. My intent is to chain the bike(s) to the trailer, with the chain through the wheels when it's parked. Thanks for the idea of vinyl tubing over the chain, too; I like that. best, Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Bartman Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:48:08 -0500 >At 02:00 PM 12/18/03 -0500, Chris Norloff wrote: >>chain, chain, chain ... chain of security >> >>I'm seeking a heavy-duty chain to lock my bikes to my trailer. About 10 >ft. long, plastic coated, hard to cut. >> >>Found coated 5/16 in. chain at Home Depot for about $3.50/ft. Not sure how >good that would be at resisting cutters or saws. >> >>Anybody have any ideas? > >How secure are you going for? Just trying to stop the casual thief? >Hardware store chain would probably work, but bolt cutters will generally >cut it easily, so anyone who's prepared won't be slowed much at all. >Serious thieves will have bolt cutters, some sort of refrigerant gas to >spray on to make locks brittle, and perhaps the ability to take the bike on >the trailer for later removal. You can make it arbitrarily hard to steal, >but not impossible. Making it harder than the next bike along the way is >probably good enough though. > >Kryponite makes chains for locking bikes. Very heavy stuff, and in a >sleeve to limit scratching things. Haven't seen it over 6' long though. >Battley's has it, and I'm sure most moto places carry it or something like >it. Not cheap though. They also have coated cable locks, and I think some >of those get up around 10' long. > >Most of the chain you'll find at hardware stores is probably made of fairly >mild steel. (If you have a grinding wheel you can test it...dull orange >sparks mean mild steel (low carbon content, i.e. fairly soft and easy to >cut). Yellow sparks are higher carbon content, and bright white ones are >tool steel...unlikely to be found in chain at the hardware store.). > >If you can find a chai