From dc-cycles-request Sun Dec  2 19:14:32 2001
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:14:04 EST
Subject: OH NO! THEYVE KILLED....(humor (?))
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


So I rode down to Portsmouth for an MSF conference ,and to visit some old
friends, this weekend. All in all an uneventful ride (530mi.) There were only
2 items of note. First: I feel no need to mention cold, _and it is Dec???
Second: I took the scenic route back to avoid the drive between Portsmouth
and Newport News. There are no words to convey just how much I hate that
drive (round trip every day for 2 years.) Just after I crossed over into
Maryland I saw a dead deer on the side of the road. As I rode by something
caught my eye, I could not believe it so I went back for another look. I
SWEAR this is true! Someone had put a big red nose on the thing.
Now that is a mind!


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Sun Dec  2 20:59:20 2001
From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: OT- short term job opening
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:07:18 -0500

Hi All,

I know there are a LOT of techies on this list, which is why I am posting
this.  Also so I am not the only motorcycle-riding-freak in the office!

My contracting company is looking for someone to teach a one-week course in
DreamWeaver 4.0.  The class is the first week of February.  Pay is somewhere
in the $30/hour range (i have to check, it might be more).  There is a
possibility of other short-trem projects as well.

Anyone interested, please contact me off-list and I'll provide whatever
other details I can.

Thanks!


Patti the Lantech
'95 Virago 750


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 09:20:02 2001
From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Eternal Damnation
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 09:18:56 -0500

Did you have a kripto on it, alarm, chained to anything, covered?

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Howard J. Koontz [mailto:HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX]
Sent:	Friday, November 30, 2001 7:49 PM
To:	bernescut@XXXXXX
Cc:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: Eternal Damnation

<snip>
That is what will befall the two lifeforms who stole my red and white 1996
CBR600F3 from my parking lot last night at around 9:00 pm
</snip>

Hey,
     My god, I'm so sorry. I have felt that same way, I had my relatively
new 1998 Suzuki GSF-600F Katana stolen from me when I lived in that toilet
off of Briggs Cheney Road in Silver Spring. I walked out my apartment door
to go take the cover off and warm her up, and found nothing but an empty
parking space. Very hollowing feeling. It was my first bike, I bought it
with down payment money from saving my first 5 paychecks from my first job
out of college.

     The M.O. sounds the same as my bike, they stole a neighbors van, threw
the seats out of it into the woods behind my apartment and then replaced the
seats with my bike. It had an OSI cover on it and a Kryptonite disc lock.
But that didn't matter; they just picked it up and took the whole thing.
Eventually the Mo. Co. Po. Do. found the van, a few blocks away in a few
hours. No sign of my blue bike.

     I miss every bike I've ever owned, even the crappy dirt bikes that
would never start (like the Maico 250), but I miss the Canned Tuna the most.
Good luck with your CBR. If you're a member, write to the AMA and report the
bike stolen. More of us can keep an eye out that way.


Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project (For Sale)


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 10:01:18 2001
From: "Wood, Sally" <swood@XXXXXX>
To: "'cliffzig@XXXXXX'" <cliffzig@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'roach@XXXXXX'" <roach@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Spreevision, er Speed Channel
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:00:43 -0500

From: Brian Roach <>
To: "Clifford Zigmond" <>, <>
Subject: Re: Spreevision, er Speed Channel
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:45:59 -0500

On Friday 30 November 2001 22:37, Clifford Zigmond wrote:
> > And now @Home is going belly up.  Do I work for the only ISP making
> > money?
>
> Can anyone suggest alternatives to @Home in light of recent developments?
> I don't think I can live without my broadband  :-(
> I live in Alexandria, BTW.

http://www.dslreports.com

Having had cable access in Alex back in '95 (it sucked with Jones
intercable,
it was only mildly better when Comcast took over), I quickly went to DSL and
love it. The above site can show you how far you are from the CO (telephone
network switch) and what is available for your home. DO NOT get DSL from the
phone company, they are really clueless and will also only provide ADSL
(there are lots of different types and different speeds).

- Roach


....Yes...and don't let that local phone company lead you into believing
that only they can provide you with xDSL.  It will take longer to get
service from a competitive carrier but only because your phone company (who
is undoubtedly engaging in monopolistic and anti-competitive practices) will
stall for as long as possible.  Do try to hold out for a real DSL service
provider.




From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 10:16:07 2001
From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Eternal Damnation
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:15:57 -0500

My F3 was covered, parked directly under the parking lot lights next to
another covered bike and equipped with a Kryptonite disk lock.  I wanted to
put a bolt into the pavement as there is no handy device to lock it to, but
the building association said it would interfere with paving operations and
said no.  I never went with an alarm because the dumpster is located next to
the bike and every day it gets dropped by the trash truck and the car alarms
nearby go off.
Cedric

-----Original Message-----
From: RichH@XXXXXX [mailto:RichH@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:19 AM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Eternal Damnation


Did you have a kripto on it, alarm, chained to anything, covered?

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Howard J. Koontz [mailto:HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX]
Sent:	Friday, November 30, 2001 7:49 PM
To:	bernescut@XXXXXX
Cc:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: Eternal Damnation

<snip>
That is what will befall the two lifeforms who stole my red and white 1996
CBR600F3 from my parking lot last night at around 9:00 pm
</snip>

Hey,
     My god, I'm so sorry. I have felt that same way, I had my relatively
new 1998 Suzuki GSF-600F Katana stolen from me when I lived in that toilet
off of Briggs Cheney Road in Silver Spring. I walked out my apartment door
to go take the cover off and warm her up, and found nothing but an empty
parking space. Very hollowing feeling. It was my first bike, I bought it
with down payment money from saving my first 5 paychecks from my first job
out of college.

     The M.O. sounds the same as my bike, they stole a neighbors van, threw
the seats out of it into the woods behind my apartment and then replaced the
seats with my bike. It had an OSI cover on it and a Kryptonite disc lock.
But that didn't matter; they just picked it up and took the whole thing.
Eventually the Mo. Co. Po. Do. found the van, a few blocks away in a few
hours. No sign of my blue bike.

     I miss every bike I've ever owned, even the crappy dirt bikes that
would never start (like the Maico 250), but I miss the Canned Tuna the most.
Good luck with your CBR. If you're a member, write to the AMA and report the
bike stolen. More of us can keep an eye out that way.


Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project (For Sale)

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 10:41:17 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Wood, Sally" <swood@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Spreevision, er Speed Channel (non moto)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 10:44:33 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wood, Sally" <swood@XXXXXX>

> From: Brian Roach <>
> Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
> To: "Clifford Zigmond" <>, <>
> Subject: Re: Spreevision, er Speed Channel
> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:45:59 -0500
>
> On Friday 30 November 2001 22:37, Clifford Zigmond wrote:
> > > And now @Home is going belly up.  Do I work for the only ISP making
> > > money?
> >
> > Can anyone suggest alternatives to @Home in light of recent
developments?
> > I don't think I can live without my broadband  :-(
> > I live in Alexandria, BTW.
>
> http://www.dslreports.com
>
> Having had cable access in Alex back in '95 (it sucked with Jones
> intercable,
> it was only mildly better when Comcast took over), I quickly went to DSL
and
> love it. The above site can show you how far you are from the CO
(telephone
> network switch) and what is available for your home. DO NOT get DSL from
the
> phone company, they are really clueless and will also only provide ADSL
> (there are lots of different types and different speeds).
>
> - Roach
>
>
> ....Yes...and don't let that local phone company lead you into believing
> that only they can provide you with xDSL.  It will take longer to get
> service from a competitive carrier but only because your phone company
(who
> is undoubtedly engaging in monopolistic and anti-competitive practices)
will
> stall for as long as possible.  Do try to hold out for a real DSL service
> provider.

On the other hand, ADSL (asymmetric DSL, wide downlink, narrow uplink) is
fine for the average home user for surfing and email unless you're running a
high volume web server.  Realize that there are three parties to a DSL
connection:  Ma Bell's copper to the Central Office, the DCLEC (Digital or
Data Competitive Local Exchange Carrier, the folks that connect the copper
to fiber network connection to the 'net) and an ISP.  Any one of those
doesn't go its job properly or goes belly up and you're out of action.  Now
Ma Bell isn't going out of business any time soon but many of the DCLECs and
ISPs are on shaky financial ground.  Yes, Verizon generally sucks and isn't
very good at running an ISP, but they're going to stay in business and you
get the copper, DCLEC and ISP bundled in one company.  Northpoint was a
DCLEC that went belly up and plugged that plug on a lot of DSL users.  The
ongoing @Home ISP bankruptcy fiasco could leave 4 million cable modem
internet subscribers in the dark.  It's a volatile industry and you play
Russian roulette trying to find a reliable service.

Paul in DC



From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 11:17:51 2001
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 11:16:41 -0500
Subject: Two wheeled transportation of the future
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Michael Jordan <mike@XXXXXX>

Evidently, word of this device has been going around for sometime. (I
have missed it completely until now.) Found these links posted on
Slashdot this morning.....looks really cool!


http://www.time.com/time/2001/segway/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660-1,00.html

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011201/tc/tech_kamen_invention_dc_1.html



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
'90 Yamaha FZR400
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/jordanracing.html


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 13:14:10 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <vfr750@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Turn in/Givi gas mileage/BMW test ride (long)
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 13:17:28 -0500

I rode down to the MSF instructor conference in Portsmouth VA over the
weekend and had the opportunity to go on a spirited back road Sunday morning
ride with a buddy who rides a '02 BMW R1150R Roadster.  He also made a sound
movie of me riding with the VFR's new Micron pipe, which sounds incredible
in the tunnels down there.
http://members.home.net/4motorcycles/pauls_bike.mov

After hitting some twisties, we took a road through the Great Dismal Swamp
(aptly named BTW) that was wide, straight and fast.  Anyway I began to
notice some new things about the VFR, particularly slow turn in with the
Givi bags.  Press the hand-grip and you can feel the bike lean over for a
split second and then begin to turn.  You actually ride down the road
momentarily in a lean without turning.  Try this on a long straight road
sometime.  Loaded Givi side bags increase the time lag.  I've identified the
syndrome, but what is the cure?  Shimming the rear shock perhaps?

I also notice the red low fuel idiot light coming on sooner (at about 180 to
190 miles) when the side bags are on.   There is a slight mileage penalty
due to increasing weight and aerodynamic drag, but that didn't account for
all of it.  The red light comes on, I stop for gas and notice it only takes
4.8 or 4.9 gallons.  So I put my thinking cap on and figure out it's
probably the bags causing the front end to rise up a little bit, making the
gas gauge and low fuel indicator to read low.

Tom and I swapped bikes for a while since I'd not ridden the BMW Roadster
before.  The seating position brought back memories of my '91 Nighthawk, but
the similarities ended there.  The upright bars means steering takes a
little more effort than the VFR's sportier ergos (MCN has a good piece in
the Dec. '01 issue on why this is so) but once the bike turns the suspension
is utterly smooth.  The Para-lever and Tele-lever suspension means no
wallow.  That's probably the single most impressive thing about this bike.
BMW clearly has the suspension nailed since the Roadster outweighs the VFR
by a good 25-30 pounds (dry) and the Roadster carries it very well.  The
longitudinal crankshaft means the bike tilts to the right when you spin up
the engine, both at a stop and also during engine braking.  That takes a
little getting used to.  The heated grips are the bomb.  I'd love it if they
were an OEM option on the VFR.   And the power-assisted ABS brakes, wow.
Even think about stopping and you stop, right now.  I did notice a lot of
buzz from the engine at about 5K and the mirrors get blurry.  Must be a
built-in shift indicator. :)  Time to upshift.  And you gotta love that
torque down low.  Roll-ons at 3K are handled without complaint.  The VFR is
not happy in that range unless you're coming to a stop.

A couple of minor quibbles are BMW's slightly bizarre switch arrangement and
the shifter ergos.  Go for the horn, oops, that's the left turn signal.  Go
for the turn signal:  bleeeep!  The switches need to be farther apart or
have a distinctive feel so you don't have to take your eyes off the road.  I
also like to keep my thumb on the signal button for the entire duration of a
lane change, which is not possible with this arrangement.  I feel like BMW
tried to solve a problem with the single button turn signal switch that
didn't need solving.  Why have three large buttons on two different hands
when a single small button does the job?  I find going to the opposite hand
to cancel a left turn signal to be a bit of a bother.  I also felt like I
had to really bend my ankle and point my toes to the ground to get my toe
under the shifter.  It takes a little extra effort to lift the lever in an
unnatural movement that our leg muscles are not suited for.

I suppose a day or two in the saddle (which is very comfortable and well
made BTW) would put both complaints to rest.  I could see spending a lot
more time on this bike, but I still enjoyed getting back on the old reliable
VFR.  My friend did comment how buttery smooth the VFR's gearbox is by
comparison and I've grown to prefer the more varied, slightly forward or
more aggressively tucked in riding position depending on need, that the VFR
affords as opposed to the more upright "standard" position of the Roadster.
The Beemer does have a lot to recommend it though, particularly in the
brakes, suspension, torquey engine, overall fit and finish and attention to
detail.

I had a beautiful ride back to DC.  Tom led me to Surry
(http://www.wilsonline.org/pUL2.jpg) we said our good-byes and I took the
ferry across the James from there and picked up the Colonial Parkway on the
opposite side, rode to Yorktown and then took VA 14 and 721 through the
Middle Peninsula as an alternate to US 17.  It's a beautiful road:  wide,
smooth with long sweepers and the occasional 25 mph sharp turn.  No traffic
either, though I narrowly missed an "opportunity" to contribute to the King
and Queen County patrolmen's Christmas fund.

Overall a great weekend and in early December, no less.


Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
www.wilsonline.org
Join the VFR750 list >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfr750



From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 13:26:25 2001
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 13:26:12 -0500
From: Mike Jay <mikejay@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Bike Shop Quest

Hi folks,

Looking for a shop in Herdon/Reston area to work on a ZN700A2 (1982
Kawasaki LTD 700 cc) bike, any preferred shops?

Has anyone gone recently to Cycle Sport in Herdon?

Has anyone used the Kawasaki shop on the section of Route 606 between
the Herdon PKWY and Route 28?

Any other shops in the Herdon/Reston area?

Rather than bore you with the list of fixes I am just looking for a feel
of shops from my fellow listers. For example, I know many listers in the
past have had "warm glowing" feelings about a particular Falls Church
bike shop ;)

As a fallback, I would consider a Leasburg shop. Heck, I would ride out
to Warrenton or Winchester if the shop came that highly recommended.

Thanks,
mikejay


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 15:19:03 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Cedric Bernescut" <bernescut@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Eternal Damnation
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:18:58 -0500

Sorry to hear of your loss and unfortunately an after the fact discussion of
alarms isn't going to do you much good. :(  Many bike alarms have a tilt
sensor that's independent of the shock sensor.  I dialed down the
sensitivity on the shock sensor for the reasons you cite.  Garbage trucks
and LEO Harleys used to set it off.  Anyway, the tilt sensor triggers the
alarm when the bike is tilted upright.  You can also get an alarm like the
Scorpio with a page function.  I think the Scorpio also has an ignition
disable feature.  Honda specs an internal alarm and ignition disabler in
Europe, but not in the USA, for their higher end sportbikes.  Apparently the
UK has an enormous bike theft problem.  I have the Gorilla cycle alarm
(cheap
but effective.)  It and a disk lock appear to have thwarted one theft
attempt on my VFR last summer.  You might also try chaining the bike to
another vehicle if the HOA won't let you mount a tie down permanently.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cedric Bernescut" <bernescut@XXXXXX>

> My F3 was covered, parked directly under the parking lot lights next to
> another covered bike and equipped with a Kryptonite disk lock.  I wanted
to
> put a bolt into the pavement as there is no handy device to lock it to,
but
> the building association said it would interfere with paving operations
and
> said no.  I never went with an alarm because the dumpster is located next
to
> the bike and every day it gets dropped by the trash truck and the car
alarms
> nearby go off.
> Cedric
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RichH@XXXXXX [mailto:RichH@XXXXXX]
>
> Did you have a kripto on it, alarm, chained to anything, covered?
>





From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 15:19:00 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Two wheeled transportation of the future
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:17:38 -0500

Heavens, the length people will go to in order to avoid putting the two
wheels in a single track, which has been happening with great success for at
least the last 125 years.  Hmm, self-balancing, isn't that what our inner
ears are for?  People can been using this amazing built in faculty on
"vehicles" since the first primitive human hopped
aboard a horse.  Why is this suddenly a "breakthrough?" To me it looks like
a solution in search of a problem.

With a top speed of 12 mph, why not just get a good quality bicycle for $200
that can easily do twice that speed and get some exercise in the bargain?
Or a $500 100 mpg moped capable of 35 mph for crying out loud?  I'd hate to
try to mix in traffic on this thing, but riding it on the sidewalk is even
worse in my opinion, not to mention illegal.
Supposedly it cost $100 million to develop this Edsel, which might have some
specialty applications in warehouses and hospitals, but it's hardly a
solution to urban transportation problems.  Gee whiz factor aside, it's
gotta be one of the most costly acts of masturbation since Ross Perot's
presidential campaigns.  :)  Other than that, I think it's a really neat
idea!

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>

> Evidently, word of this device has been going around for sometime. (I
> have missed it completely until now.) Found these links posted on
> Slashdot this morning.....looks really cool!
>
>
> http://www.time.com/time/2001/segway/index.html
>
> http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660-1,00.html
>
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011201/tc/tech_kamen_invention_dc_1.html




From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 15:41:14 2001
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 15:41:06 -0500
From: Mike Jay <mikejay@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Two wheeled transportation of the future

Bring back Gordon and Smith Fibreflex with Bennetts and Bones :)

Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> Heavens, the length people will go to in order to avoid putting the two
> wheels in a single track, which has been happening with great success for at
> least the last 125 years.  Hmm, self-balancing, isn't that what our inner
> ears are for?  People can been using this amazing built in faculty on
> "vehicles" since the first primitive human hopped
> aboard a horse.  Why is this suddenly a "breakthrough?" To me it looks like
> a solution in search of a problem.
>
> With a top speed of 12 mph, why not just get a good quality bicycle for $200
> that can easily do twice that speed and get some exercise in the bargain?
> Or a $500 100 mpg moped capable of 35 mph for crying out loud?  I'd hate to
> try to mix in traffic on this thing, but riding it on the sidewalk is even
> worse in my opinion, not to mention illegal.
> Supposedly it cost $100 million to develop this Edsel, which might have some
> specialty applications in warehouses and hospitals, but it's hardly a
> solution to urban transportation problems.  Gee whiz factor aside, it's
> gotta be one of the most costly acts of masturbation since Ross Perot's
> presidential campaigns.  :)  Other than that, I think it's a really neat
> idea!
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F
> www.wilsonline.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>
>
> > Evidently, word of this device has been going around for sometime. (I
> > have missed it completely until now.) Found these links posted on
> > Slashdot this morning.....looks really cool!
> >
> >
> > http://www.time.com/time/2001/segway/index.html
> >
> > http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660-1,00.html
> >
> > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011201/tc/tech_kamen_invention_dc_1.html


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 15:48:18 2001
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 15:44:08 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Two wheeled transportation of the future

At 03:17 PM 12/3/2001, Paul Wilson wrote:
>I'd hate to
>try to mix in traffic on this thing, but riding it on the sidewalk is even
>worse in my opinion, not to mention illegal.

Sidewalks! Oh, man, that ain't the half of it. WATCH THE VIDEO at their
site! It's got people in crowds, following pedestrians close behind,
staying on the things in elevators, and riding them all the way to their
desks! It's hilarious.

  ... <hand to forehead -- intense concentration> ...

I foresee a long string of liability lawsuits, leading to the demise of
this company.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 15:58:51 2001
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Two wheeled transportation of the future
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 15:57:05 -0500

one word:  curbs.

Ok, more words.  "IT," a symbol of Silicon Valley's (hype == substance)
arrogance/misconception, is what we're going to "...erect entire cities
around..."?  Yeah, whatever.  Let's put this into digital terms: Interface
with legacy systems.

At least the motorized (gasoline-powered) Razor scooters I've seen don't
need recharging and can do about 20mph.  And at 10% of the cost.

$3,000 bucks, runs on batteries, no faster than a slug on a bicycle.  Can't
do wheelies.  What the hell?

You're right, Paul.  $100M worth of masturbation.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200
(can do wheelies)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 3:18 PM
> To: dc-cycles list
> Subject: Re: Two wheeled transportation of the future
>
>
> Heavens, the length people will go to in order to avoid putting the two
> wheels in a single track, which has been happening with great
> success for at
> least the last 125 years.  Hmm, self-balancing, isn't that what our inner
> ears are for?  People can been using this amazing built in faculty on
> "vehicles" since the first primitive human hopped
> aboard a horse.  Why is this suddenly a "breakthrough?" To me it
> looks like
> a solution in search of a problem.
>
> With a top speed of 12 mph, why not just get a good quality
> bicycle for $200
> that can easily do twice that speed and get some exercise in the bargain?
> Or a $500 100 mpg moped capable of 35 mph for crying out loud?
> I'd hate to
> try to mix in traffic on this thing, but riding it on the sidewalk is even
> worse in my opinion, not to mention illegal.
> Supposedly it cost $100 million to develop this Edsel, which
> might have some
> specialty applications in warehouses and hospitals, but it's hardly a
> solution to urban transportation problems.  Gee whiz factor aside, it's
> gotta be one of the most costly acts of masturbation since Ross Perot's
> presidential campaigns.  :)  Other than that, I think it's a really neat
> idea!
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F
> www.wilsonline.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sean Jordan" <eternity23@XXXXXX>
>
> > Evidently, word of this device has been going around for sometime. (I
> > have missed it completely until now.) Found these links posted on
> > Slashdot this morning.....looks really cool!
> >
> >
> > http://www.time.com/time/2001/segway/index.html
> >
> > http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,186660-1,00.html
> >
> >
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011201/tc/tech_kamen_invention_dc_1.html




From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 16:02:40 2001
From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Bike Shop Quest
Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 16:01:49 -0500

I've used both Rhoads Cycles and Cycle Sport.  Rhoads has quoted me cheaper
prices.  I bought my bike used from Cycle Sport, 2 years ago.  I have no
complaints with either.  I've bought gear from Loudoun Motorsport (Honda,
Suzuki, in Leesburg), they seem like good people.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Mike Jay [mailto:mikejay@XXXXXX]
Sent:	Monday, December 03, 2001 1:26 PM
To:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Bike Shop Quest

Hi folks,

Looking for a shop in Herdon/Reston area to work on a ZN700A2 (1982
Kawasaki LTD 700 cc) bike, any preferred shops?

Has anyone gone recently to Cycle Sport in Herdon?

Has anyone used the Kawasaki shop on the section of Route 606 between
the Herdon PKWY and Route 28?

Any other shops in the Herdon/Reston area?

Rather than bore you with the list of fixes I am just looking for a feel
of shops from my fellow listers. For example, I know many listers in the
past have had "warm glowing" feelings about a particular Falls Church
bike shop ;)

As a fallback, I would consider a Leasburg shop. Heck, I would ride out
to Warrenton or Winchester if the shop came that highly recommended.

Thanks,
mikejay

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec  3 22:33:34 2001
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2001 22:06:10 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bob  Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Bike Shop Quest

Not in Herndon/Reston, but I've always gotten good work from Manassas
Honda/Kawasaki. They're good people, too, and it's kind of an old
fashioned, small dealership, not a mega-dealer like so many of the new
ones. They're offering 15% off parts and labor to "preferred customers"
between 11/23 and 2/15, so if you go there ask about it.

I don't know if it's still there, but quite a few years ago I had some
minor work done at a little Kawi shop off Route 50, right near Fairfax
Circle.  They did okay, but I never had warm fuzzies about them.

Bob Meyer

At 04:01 PM 12/3/01 -0500, RichH@XXXXXX wrote:
>I've used both Rhoads Cycles and Cycle Sport.  Rhoads has quoted me cheaper
>prices.  I bought my bike used from Cycle Sport, 2 years ago.  I have no
>complaints with either.  I've bought gear from Loudoun Motorsport (Honda,
>Suzuki, in Leesburg), they seem like good people.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>From:   Mike Jay [mailto:mikejay@XXXXXX]
>Sent:   Monday, December 03, 2001 1:26 PM
>To:     dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject:        Bike Shop Quest
>
>Hi folks,
>
>Looking for a shop in Herdon/Reston area to work on a ZN700A2 (1982
>Kawasaki LTD 700 cc) bike, any preferred shops?
>
>Has anyone gone recently to Cycle Sport in Herdon?
>
>Has anyone used the Kawasaki shop on the section of Route 606 between
>the Herdon PKWY and Route 28?
>
>Any other shops in the Herdon/Reston area?
>
>Rather than bore you with the list of fixes I am just looking for a feel
>of shops from my fellow listers. For example, I know many listers in the
>past have had "warm glowing" feelings about a particular Falls Church
>bike shop ;)
>
>As a fallback, I would consider a Leasburg shop. Heck, I would ride out
>to Warrenton or Winchester if the shop came that highly recommended.
>
>Thanks,
>mikejay


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 08:30:59 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:30:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Subject: looking for parking in Silver Spring
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I started a new job near Georgia Avenue and Colesville
Rd. I am trying to find some free parking for the
bike.

Thanks

Trey

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 08:42:12 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 05:42:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Subject: 'nuther helmet cam mega download
To: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

http://www.digitoolsdesign.com/Test_02/Test_02_webstream.mpg

Very nice.  But I wonder why the 2 sport(s) bike
web-movies I've seen both use such lame music.  Not a
Marshall amp or Gibson guitar to be heard anywhere! ;)

Rich


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 08:46:37 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 08:46:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Kirk Roy <kirk@XXXXXX>
To: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
cc: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 'nuther helmet cam mega download

On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Scratch wrote:
> Not a Marshall amp or Gibson guitar to be heard anywhere! ;)

Get with the program, Rich! This is a Mesa Boogie amp/PRS guitar world
we're living in now! (I've got the PRS but sold my Boogie back in
july...).

Kirk


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 11:02:37 2001
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:55:53 -0500
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Turn in/Givi gas mileage/BMW test ride (long)

Paul,

sounds like a good trip. Glad you enjoyed yourself. :)  FWIW, i've found
that yes, the GIVI does reduce gas milage a little bit, and, although i
can't prove it, i secretly think it's better with the side bags then the
top case, but oh well. i've never really noticed any change in turn-in. I
crank the rear suspension up 1 or 2 clicks depending on weight/number of
bags. don't know if that's been the magic-cure, but it's worked fine for
me. Rob just recently got the full GIVI set up too. He might be able to
comment on the difference. i may have just gotten used to it ;)

Justin

1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 12:50:25 2001
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 12:53:02 -0500
From: Todd Schroder <tschroder@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Cam Welding / Valve Work

Can anyone recommend a local (NoVA) shop that resurfaces cams and rebuilds heads? I am
restoring a 1975 Honda XL350 that is in need of some head work.

Thanks,
Todd
1996 KLR650
1993 EX500
1979 KZ400 LTD
1979 GTMX
1975 XL350


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 13:49:00 2001
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: firblt@XXXXXX, pawilson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Turn in/Givi gas mileage/BMW test ride (long)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 13:37:40 -0500

Just get an 800.  They get better mileage anyway!  ;)  (sorry, Rich, had to
say it!)

But seriously, I don't really keep track of my miles per gallon, so I can't
really comment on how it changes with the Givi's.  I imagine it would be
worse with the extra drag and weight, but probably not too drastic.  Aside
from long trips, I usually don't have any bags on it, or maybe just the
topcase only.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Turn in/Givi gas mileage/BMW test ride (long)
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:55:53 -0500

Paul,

sounds like a good trip. Glad you enjoyed yourself. :)  FWIW, i've found
that yes, the GIVI does reduce gas milage a little bit, and, although i
can't prove it, i secretly think it's better with the side bags then the
top case, but oh well. i've never really noticed any change in turn-in. I
crank the rear suspension up 1 or 2 clicks depending on weight/number of
bags. don't know if that's been the magic-cure, but it's worked fine for
me. Rob just recently got the full GIVI set up too. He might be able to
comment on the difference. i may have just gotten used to it ;)

Justin

1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC



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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 14:42:43 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:42:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Knapik <t_knapik@XXXXXX>
Subject: Slightly OT
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I have a set of craftsman welding tourches (and
cutting tourches) along with the gages, tanks, etc.
that I need to part with.  Anyone interested, contact
me directly. I'm asking $100.00 for the set.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 14:46:43 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:46:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Subject: Silver Spring Parking
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I am looking for some free daytime parking near
Georgia Ave and Colesville Rd.

Trey

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 21:38:05 2001
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:37:48 -0500
From: "BR VMI-1996" <vmi-1996@XXXXXX>
X-Sent-Mail: off
Subject: Good Twisties
X-Sender-Ip: 65.129.38.38
Content-Language: en

other than 29/211 ... are there any good twisting rides within about 50 - 100 miles from here?  Friend just got a GSXR1000 and wanted to hit some good twisties.

-Matt
01 Bandit 600s


Get 250 color business cards for FREE!
http://businesscards.lycos.com/vp/fastpath/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec  4 23:02:49 2001
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 23:00:12 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Good Twisties

At 09:37 PM 12/4/2001, BR VMI-1996 wrote:
>other than 29/211 ... are there any good twisting rides within about 50 -
>100 miles from here?  Friend just got a GSXR1000 and wanted to hit some
>good twisties.

Check the www.dccycles.com site for a ton of routes within short
drives.  211 is a blast, but for me the real run is the VA Byway on the way
to 211.  Ask Danny Thompson for the exact routes from Warrenton - I only
know them by visual.



______________________________________
    Mike Troutman
         mike@XXXXXX
         http://www.troutman.org

         It's lonely at the top, but you eat better


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 00:03:01 2001
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:02:51 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Wanted: copy of early 90's GSXR manual
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I just need a dozen or so pages out of a gsxr maint
manual for early 90's GSXR's that describes (with
pics) the front forks. Also data on the front wheel
and bearings would be nice.

SImilarly for a '95/96 upside-down fork GSXR.

What Suz shops around here have a clue and a full set
of 'fiche? I probably ought to just pop in on CAD in Gaithersburg...

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 09:09:51 2001
Subject: RE: Wanted: copy of early 90's GSXR manual
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 09:10:11 -0500
To: "pattonme@XXXXXX" <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Matt,

What exactly is it that you want to know?  I don't have a manual, but -- as you know -- I used to have a '93 GSXR750.  How "early" 90s?  I have a "history" of the GSXR that describes (and gives technical specs) all the various models (through '96 model year, which is when Suzuki introduced the "hump back" SRAD).  Here's what I remember, if it helps:

90-92 were air cooled GSXRs (in the US).  Don't know if the double-cradle frames were steel or aluminum, but I think still steel.  Forks I think were still conventional right side up.  I don't know if they were fully adjustable or not.  Can't remember the fork tube diameter.

93 was when the engines switched to water cooled (in the US, the year prior for the rest of the world).  Still the double cradle frame, but definitely aluminum.  Definitely upside down forks.  Showa.  Fully adjustable for rebound, compression, and preload.  I think 41mm, but not positive.

94-95 were essentially minor changes of the 93 model.  I think they did change the fork diameter to 43mm.

96 is when they ditched the double cradle frame and went with the perimeter frame.  Essentially, an all new bike.  But I don't know (off the top of my head) what changes they made to the forks.  I'm pretty sure they were still Showa.

97 is the same as 96 pretty much.

98-99 had EFI.

2000 introduced the GSXR as we now know it.

I'd be happy to check my book for whatever relevant facts you're looking for.  Also, give Denny at Crossroads Cycle a call (703) 820-3711.  He used to race and race-prep a lot of GSXRs (including older ones) and is pretty knowledgeable about the entire line.

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: matthew patton pattonme@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:02:51 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Wanted: copy of early 90's GSXR manual


I just need a dozen or so pages out of a gsxr maint
manual for early 90's GSXR's that describes (with
pics) the front forks. Also data on the front wheel
and bearings would be nice.

SImilarly for a '95/96 upside-down fork GSXR.

What Suz shops around here have a clue and a full set
of 'fiche? I probably ought to just pop in on CAD in Gaithersburg...

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 10:52:26 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 07:52:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Good Twisties
To: vmi-1996@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

while nothing close to dc really compares to the west
virginia (and virginia) mountain roads, the clifton,
virginia area is pretty cool.  northern montgomery county
and frederick county, maryland also have some decent roads.


--
tg


--- BR VMI-1996 <vmi-1996@XXXXXX> wrote:
> other than 29/211 ... are there any good twisting rides
> within about 50 - 100 miles from here?  Friend just got a
> GSXR1000 and wanted to hit some good twisties.
>
> -Matt
> 01 Bandit 600s



__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 11:13:43 2001
From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Good Twisties
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:13:39 -0500

Also try rt.619 on the northside of Quantico Marine Base.  Rt. 218 from
Fredericksburg to Dalhgren, then the Sothern MD roads back to the beltway.

dg

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:52 AM
To: vmi-1996@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Good Twisties


while nothing close to dc really compares to the west
virginia (and virginia) mountain roads, the clifton,
virginia area is pretty cool.  northern montgomery county
and frederick county, maryland also have some decent roads.


--
tg


--- BR VMI-1996 <vmi-1996@XXXXXX> wrote:
> other than 29/211 ... are there any good twisting rides
> within about 50 - 100 miles from here?  Friend just got a
> GSXR1000 and wanted to hit some good twisties.
>
> -Matt
> 01 Bandit 600s



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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 11:29:59 2001
From: "Greg Thompson" <johnnyteardrop@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike Shop Quest
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:18:03 -0500

From: "Bob Meyer" <bob@XXXXXX>

> Not in Herndon/Reston, but I've always gotten good work from Manassas
> Honda/Kawasaki.

when i took my '90 cb-1 (running perfectly at the time) in to have the valve
clearances adjusted, they:

a. broke off part of the airbox lid, thereby leaving a nice hole in the
airbox.  they didn't bother to tell me this when i picked the bike up.

b. didn't run the wiring harness in the little track around the airbox.  as
a result, it was being pinched between the airbox and the frame.

c. "installed" the rubber heat-sheild between the top of the engine and the
bottom of the airbox by cramming the thing in there.  this restricted the
airflow into the airbox.

d. fucked up the bike's carburation (i guess) to the point where once the
engine warmed up, it had no power at all below about 5k rpm and stalled out
at almost every stop.

the day after i picked it up i took off the tank and noticed a, b, and c.
they were plenty polite when i called them up and told them how unsatisfied
i was (note: i was extremely calm and didn't drop the f-bomb or anything).
they said to bring it in and they'd look at it.  after they saw it, they
said "leave it here.  we'll replace the airbox lid and make it run well
again."  after way too many weeks of perfect spring riding weather, they
finally said i could pick it up.  they claimed they'd synch'd the carbs
after installing the new airbox and that it ran perfectly.  it's far better,
but after 20 minutes or so of riding it starts idling crappily and stalls
out periodically.  it wasn't worth my time to keep schlepping out there to
have them fiddle with it again and still not fix it, so i've just been
living with it and have resolved to fixing it myself.

this leads to another question i have: where can i get a carb rebuild kit
for a '90 cb-1?  my winter project is to fully service the carbs.
--
        -greg

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 11:42:36 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: NYC Bike Show
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:45:47 -0500

Due to the bike show's scheduling during the holidays (Dec. 28 - 30), my
wife and I are
going to spend
the weekend of Dec. 29 and 30th in New York.  Lots of Midtown hotels have
deep discounted room rates right now.  I'm wondering how many of the
DC-Cycles crew are going up?  I remember a bus charter two years ago.
Anything similar this year?  The organizers are saying it's "bigger and
better than ever" due to the fact they could get more space in the Javits
Center this time around.

http://www.motorcycleshows.com/newyork/home.asp

Paul in DC
95 VFR




From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 12:29:49 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:33:06 -0800

A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.

What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
a red light)

I asked the cop what I did "you flipped the front brake lever thingee
and made the bike come up like this"  and he moved his hand from
horizontal to diagonal..

( Good to know we have such articulate cops right? )

I asked him the definition of wreckless driving.. he said any act
which endangered others..   I thought we had a law against vague laws?
it's funny, no one seemed to be endangered.

He did not issue me any ohter ticket.. but a couple of lies like..

"We got calls of bikes doing stunts"   that's funny, the five or six
other officers we just passed (traffic ticket day in that area) didn't
seem to catch that one on the radio!

" if a person on a bike is not the registered owner we can impound it"
(the person who stopped with me, didn't violate any traffic laws).. Oh
really? so no crime is committed,and the bike wasn't stolen, and you
can impound it?  why dont' you suck my.....

Of course I wasn't rude or anything and dind't admit any guilt, was
cooperative and polite, but this guy had ego problems as soon as he
got out the car.. he runs over to me says "you been doing stunts" and
points his finger at me...  some old dude witha  couple stripes on his
arm, who didn't seem to know what he was doing.. I htink his
supervisor came and helped him out. He seemed like he was transfered
from another part of the country and didn't know what he was talking
about/ doing.

note we were riding organized (because of the police presence and new
riders with us), and I was the last bike in about six bikes.. so
pulling up to the light last, there was already a spot there for me at
the back, i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.

I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!


So has anyone heard of a legal defense for this?  He fined me 275 big
ones, and I really don't want a reckless on my record.


Danny
can't stand cops who don't know the principle of the law they enforce

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 12:47:03 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: gun thread - southern maryland
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:50:20 -0800

I find myself more and more in southern maryland..

and have come across a few parks in the backwoods..

also hearing gunshots on private owners lands...

So being that shootin in the woods is cheaper/more fun than shooting
at a range..  Anyone know anything about informal target shooting in
southern maryland?  I think there used to be places you go could go.
Also I'm pretty sure the law states no shooting within 500 feet of a
home. (and thus any other dwelling)..

but i'm wondering if anyone knows any places?
knows any laws regarding NOT shooting in places deemed as parks.
Note: i'm not talking about the feel good parks with the picnic
grounds and camp grounds and all that.. i'm talking about the side of
the road dirt spots they throw a sign up saying 'so and so  regional
park" in front of some woods...

I'm just trying to do some fun target shooting, not do any drinking,
not leave any mess, and be completely legal without any discussions
with officer friendly. (that includes transporting the firearm in the
trunk, unloaded, encased).

any help would be appreicated. THanks


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 12:55:44 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Eternal Damnation...
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 12:59:01 -0800

I realize i'm late but...

5 bills? to beat down bike theives?  that's an offer i can't refuse
godfather! (need the money:)  )

by the way check out this state farm story....   a lady friend of mine
gets her honda f4 stolen...  an insurance agent who works for her
insurance company state farm, happens to find the bike under a cover..
supposedly the police recover it, the bike goes to auction, and is
sold.. perfectly entact...    months later after the owner is payed
off, she is notified about it...   if that doesn't reak "inside
job"... what does it reak?


Danny

|>   <DJY>  who's goal?  Not mine.  it's not even (never was) my bike,
|>& I want nothing to do with forgiveness  I'd pay the cops at least 5
|>bills to deliver a wood shampoo that they'd never forget if they were
|>caught...  but that's just my opinion...
|>
|>Good luck.
|>Hope you're back on 2 wheels soon.
|>
|>Dave Yates


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 12:56:43 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: OH NO! THEYVE KILLED....(humor (?))
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:00:00 -0800

|>Now that is a mind!

ROTFL!!!!

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 12:59:10 2001
Subject: RE: gun thread - southern maryland
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:59:10 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Daniel baited a gun thread -
I find myself more and more in southern maryland and have come across a few parks in the backwoods..
also hearing gunshots on private owners lands...

So being that shootin in the woods is cheaper/more fun than shooting
at a range..  Anyone know anything about informal target shooting in
southern maryland?  I think there used to be places you go could go.


   <DJY>  There are - one off 225, the other off 6, both on state land.  the one off 225 is Myrtle Grove Wildlife management area.  It has a shotgun & (up to) 100 yard outdoor 8 lane range open to the public.  There's a fee / year, but there's never anyone there to collect it.  It's 15 or 25 / year if you don't have a current hunting license.  There's usually a wait on weekends.  The ranger there is Dan Estevez (or used to be) he's kind of a dick, but other than that, it's a nice facility.  It's off 225, about 5 miles from 210 or a few more from 301.


Also I'm pretty sure the law states no shooting within 500 feet of a
home. (and thus any other dwelling)..


   <DJY>  More than that I think...


but i'm wondering if anyone knows any places?
knows any laws regarding NOT shooting in places deemed as parks.
Note: i'm not talking about the feel good parks with the picnic
grounds and camp grounds and all that.. i'm talking about the side of
the road dirt spots they throw a sign up saying 'so and so  regional
park" in front of some woods...


   <DJY>  Even in Southern MD, the anti gun culture is infecting the area like a cancer.  If you're caught shooting in MD and are breaking no other laws, you'll at least be arrested for disturbing the peace, so they can confiscate the firearms.


I'm just trying to do some fun target shooting, not do any drinking,
not leave any mess, and be completely legal without any discussions
with officer friendly. (that includes transporting the firearm in the
trunk, unloaded, encased).

any help would be appreicated. THanks


   <DJY> Use only designated ranges.

Dave


Danny

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:16:54 2001
From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:09:00 -0500

Its' "Reckless" driving!!

----- Original Message -----
From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:33 PM
Subject: oh speaking fo tickets


A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.

What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
a red light)

I asked the cop what I did "you flipped the front brake lever thingee
and made the bike come up like this"  and he moved his hand from
horizontal to diagonal..

( Good to know we have such articulate cops right? )

I asked him the definition of wreckless driving.. he said any act
which endangered others..   I thought we had a law against vague laws?
it's funny, no one seemed to be endangered.

He did not issue me any ohter ticket.. but a couple of lies like..

"We got calls of bikes doing stunts"   that's funny, the five or six
other officers we just passed (traffic ticket day in that area) didn't
seem to catch that one on the radio!

" if a person on a bike is not the registered owner we can impound it"
(the person who stopped with me, didn't violate any traffic laws).. Oh
really? so no crime is committed,and the bike wasn't stolen, and you
can impound it?  why dont' you suck my.....

Of course I wasn't rude or anything and dind't admit any guilt, was
cooperative and polite, but this guy had ego problems as soon as he
got out the car.. he runs over to me says "you been doing stunts" and
points his finger at me...  some old dude witha  couple stripes on his
arm, who didn't seem to know what he was doing.. I htink his
supervisor came and helped him out. He seemed like he was transfered
from another part of the country and didn't know what he was talking
about/ doing.

note we were riding organized (because of the police presence and new
riders with us), and I was the last bike in about six bikes.. so
pulling up to the light last, there was already a spot there for me at
the back, i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.

I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!


So has anyone heard of a legal defense for this?  He fined me 275 big
ones, and I really don't want a reckless on my record.


Danny
can't stand cops who don't know the principle of the law they enforce


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:25:09 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:28:12 -0500

Heck, I'd get a "wreckless" ticket every day.  :)  Reckless, esp. in Va., is
a catch all offense that can mean whatever the LEO wants it to mean.  I
suppose one hand on the grips could be considered reckless if the cop had a
jones for motorcyclists.  Heck, a rider on a touring bike, an MSF instructor
no less, was pulled over in Herndon for weaving down the road (tire warming
maneuver.)

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>



> Its' "Reckless" driving!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
>
>
> A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.
>
> What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:32:21 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:32:10 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets

At 03:33 PM 12/5/01, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
>I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
>infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
>an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
>best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!
>
>So has anyone heard of a legal defense for this?  He fined me 275 big
>ones, and I really don't want a reckless on my record.

On hand A we have : You performed a legal stop.  You had to brake hard to
avoid hitting the guy in front of you - it was not malicious.  This is a
side effect of good braking technique.

Meanwhile, hand B says : You weren't paying attention and had to panic
brake to avoid hitting your friends OR you did stoppie on purpose.  Either
way - it was reckless.

So - I would ask myself in all honesty - did I stoppie on purpose to show
off in front of my friends - or was I distracted and forced to brake
hard.  Which story can you sell to the judge?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:34:15 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:34:04 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets

Shouldn't an MSF instructor know that quick stops and starts warm up the
tires - not weavies?

At 01:28 PM 12/5/01, you wrote:
>Heck, a rider on a touring bike, an MSF instructor
>no less, was pulled over in Herndon for weaving down the road (tire warming
>maneuver.)


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:39:38 2001
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:39:40 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.


   <DJY>  At 1st perusal, I'd suggest getting a lawyer to fight this NOW.  Preferrably, one who doesn't make an issue out of how you spell 'reckless'
;-)


What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
a red light)

I asked the cop what I did "you flipped the front brake lever thingee
and made the bike come up like this"  and he moved his hand from
horizontal to diagonal..

( Good to know we have such articulate cops right? )


   <DJY>  right about now, I'm thinking 'he's got you'.  I mean, it will wash with a judge, and you'll be convicted.  You could win on appeal however.  I'm given to understand that the PG appeal works to the violator's favor pretty well...


I asked him the definition of wreckless driving.. he said any act
which endangered others..   I thought we had a law against vague laws?
it's funny, no one seemed to be endangered.


   <DJY>  well, that's not exactly the legal definition, but MD reckless is kind of a catch all, nebulous statute.


He did not issue me any ohter ticket.. but a couple of lies like..

"We got calls of bikes doing stunts"   that's funny, the five or six
other officers we just passed (traffic ticket day in that area) didn't
seem to catch that one on the radio!

" if a person on a bike is not the registered owner we can impound it"
(the person who stopped with me, didn't violate any traffic laws).. Oh
really? so no crime is committed,and the bike wasn't stolen, and you
can impound it?  why dont' you suck my.....
..

note we were riding organized (because of the police presence and new
riders with us), and I was the last bike in about six bikes.. so
pulling up to the light last, there was already a spot there for me at
the back, i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.


   <DJY> from what you explained, unless one of the other bikers saw you in the rear view mirror, you're toast.  No witnesses for the defense, & an expert witness for the prosecution...  Get a lawyer, and get his thought.


I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!


   <DJY>  Don't even waste any brain bandwidth on this, it won't sell in court.



So has anyone heard of a legal defense for this?  He fined me 275 big
ones, and I really don't want a reckless on my record.


   <DJY>  Then you need a lawyer.  If you choose to represent yourself, which is a bad idea in this case, continue it at least 2 times.  use the time to get ready.  You said he had reports of...  subpoena the dispatch records (if for no other reason than to try and get him to admit he said that and hope there are no dispatch reports of such).  IMHO (not professional mind you), you're best shot at avoiding reckless here is to meet the prosecutor and offer a deal of double fine, no points, non moving violation ; loud pipes or summat.  It WILL show on your record, but WON'T affect your insurance, which is the goal here, AND it WILL NOT keep you from expunging in MD.  If you think that's too much, consider this, your insurance will go up on all of your vehicles at least a hundred / year, for a minimum of 3 years  IF you get no other tickets or accidents...  and 100 / vehicle is a conservative estimate, at best.


Please, get a lawyer.

Dave



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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:41:35 2001
From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>
To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>, <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500

I need to correct myself:  Its' should be It's !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy D. Turner, Esq. <turnerr@XXXXXX>
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets


> Its' "Reckless" driving!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:33 PM
> Subject: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
> A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.
>
> What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
> with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
> a red light)
>
> I asked the cop what I did "you flipped the front brake lever thingee
> and made the bike come up like this"  and he moved his hand from
> horizontal to diagonal..
>
> ( Good to know we have such articulate cops right? )
>
> I asked him the definition of wreckless driving.. he said any act
> which endangered others..   I thought we had a law against vague laws?
> it's funny, no one seemed to be endangered.
>
> He did not issue me any ohter ticket.. but a couple of lies like..
>
> "We got calls of bikes doing stunts"   that's funny, the five or six
> other officers we just passed (traffic ticket day in that area) didn't
> seem to catch that one on the radio!
>
> " if a person on a bike is not the registered owner we can impound it"
> (the person who stopped with me, didn't violate any traffic laws).. Oh
> really? so no crime is committed,and the bike wasn't stolen, and you
> can impound it?  why dont' you suck my.....
>
> Of course I wasn't rude or anything and dind't admit any guilt, was
> cooperative and polite, but this guy had ego problems as soon as he
> got out the car.. he runs over to me says "you been doing stunts" and
> points his finger at me...  some old dude witha  couple stripes on his
> arm, who didn't seem to know what he was doing.. I htink his
> supervisor came and helped him out. He seemed like he was transfered
> from another part of the country and didn't know what he was talking
> about/ doing.
>
> note we were riding organized (because of the police presence and new
> riders with us), and I was the last bike in about six bikes.. so
> pulling up to the light last, there was already a spot there for me at
> the back, i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
> of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
> it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.
>
> I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
> infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
> an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
> best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!
>
>
> So has anyone heard of a legal defense for this?  He fined me 275 big
> ones, and I really don't want a reckless on my record.
>
>
> Danny
> can't stand cops who don't know the principle of the law they enforce
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 13:46:36 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:46:15 -0500
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

>  Heck, a rider on a touring bike, an MSF instructor
> no less, was pulled over in Herndon for weaving down the road (tire
> warming
> maneuver.)

You might want to pass onto your MSF instructing friend that "weaving"
does not not work to warm up motorcycle tires.

http://venus.13x.com/roadracingworld/issues/feb00/weave.htm



"For man, maximum excitement is the confrontation of death and the
skillful defiance of it."

M-^WErnest Becker (1924-1974)

Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
'90 Yamaha FZR400
http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/jordanracing.html


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:03:22 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:03:14 -0500
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--Apple-Mail-1--792976954

>  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
> with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
> a red light)

"Good braking technique" wouldn't have resulted in a stoppie. While it
is something that takes a certain modicum of skill, it is not part of
any sort of riding technique that makes sense on the street. I'm
assuming you did the stoppie for fun. If you did not, then you need to
start braking sooner. Waiting until the last minute and braking hard,
and then initiating a stoppie at a traffic light with a bunch of people
in front of you is *not* "good braking technique". Technique includes
not only the skill employed in a manuever

>  i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
> of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
> it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.

What if you had hit an unseen patch of oil or gravel, (which exist all
too commonly at the patch of asphalt right before an intersection)?
Seeing as how you're only on the front wheel, and you're already braking
heavily, the available traction left over is at a bare minimum. So, in a
sense, you were endangering the people in front of you. When you perform
a stoppie, you're pretty much committed to the maneuver. Under "normal"
braking, you are still capable of turning, accelerating, etc. So you
willfully surrendered full control of your vehicle. You better hope the
D.A. doesn't know anything about motorcycling. (Or that he reads this
email!)

Sean

can't stand people who do something stupid, get caught, and then
complain about it




--Apple-Mail-1--792976954

<excerpt> I used too good braking technique. A small endo

with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at

a red light)

</excerpt>

"Good braking technique" wouldn't have resulted in a stoppie. While it
is something that takes a certain modicum of skill, it is not part of
any sort of riding technique that makes sense on the street. I'm
assuming you did the stoppie for fun. If you did not, then you need to
start braking sooner. Waiting until the last minute and braking hard,
and then initiating a stoppie at a traffic light with a bunch of
people in front of you is *not* "good braking technique". Technique
includes not only the skill employed in a manuever


<excerpt> i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back

of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but

it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.

</excerpt>

What if you had hit an unseen patch of oil or gravel, (which exist all
too commonly at the patch of asphalt right before an intersection)?
Seeing as how you're only on the front wheel, and you're already
braking heavily, the available traction left over is at a bare
minimum. So, in a sense, you were endangering the people in front of
you. When you perform a stoppie, you're pretty much committed to the
maneuver. Under "normal" braking, you are still capable of turning,
accelerating, etc. So you willfully surrendered full control of your
vehicle. You better hope the D.A. doesn't know anything about
motorcycling. (Or that he reads this email!)


Sean


can't stand people who do something stupid, get caught, and then
complain about it <fixed><fontfamily><param>Courier New</param>



</fontfamily></fixed><fontfamily><param>Times New Roman</param><bigger><bigger>

</bigger></bigger></fontfamily>
--Apple-Mail-1--792976954--


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:06:25 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 13:03:16 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets


>>> <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX> wrote <SNIP>
>A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.
>What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
>with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
>a red light)
--

Come on now Danny, who are you trying to convince? Us or the Judge

Everyone here, who has read some of your posts, know that you hang with the Squidly crowd (IE DC sportbike) in PG county, and that stoppie was fully  done on purpose. PLEASE!

Yes it sucks to get a ticket like that, but I would be really surprised if you talk your way out of that one.  Go to court and plead guilty with explanation is what I would do and hope for the best.

BTW It takes a serious effort to perform a stoppie, usually one grab on the lever to compress the front and another really hard pull to bring up the rear.  I er read this in a PB magazine a while back.

George Cole
01 FZ1




From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:07:41 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:06:31 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Sean Jordan wrote:
>
> >  Heck, a rider on a touring bike, an MSF instructor
> > no less, was pulled over in Herndon for weaving down the road (tire
> > warming
> > maneuver.)
>
> You might want to pass onto your MSF instructing friend that "weaving"
> does not not work to warm up motorcycle tires.

Maybe the MSF instructor was just trying to clean off his tires
edge to edge (gravel roads/mud/other road snarf)?  I've done this
on occasion.

Hork
--
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:15:39 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Dale Horstman" <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:18:27 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <the.horkster@XXXXXX>

> Sean Jordan wrote:
> >
> > >  Heck, a rider on a touring bike, an MSF instructor
> > > no less, was pulled over in Herndon for weaving down the road (tire
> > > warming
> > > maneuver.)
> >
> > You might want to pass onto your MSF instructing friend that "weaving"
> > does not not work to warm up motorcycle tires.
>
> Maybe the MSF instructor was just trying to clean off his tires
> edge to edge (gravel roads/mud/other road snarf)?  I've done this
> on occasion.
>
> Hork

"Scrubbing":  that's what he claimed he has doing, but I hardly think it
rises to a ticketable offense on a deserted street.  I didn't follow up on
how the case turned out.  Herndon LEOs must have a lot of time on their
hands.

Paul in DC



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:17:34 2001
Subject: RE: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:32:33 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

>  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
> with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
> a red light)


  hmm...  I wonder what ANKER might say...  ;-)


"Good braking technique" wouldn't have resulted in a stoppie. ...


Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:22:36 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:20:54 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Paul Wilson wrote:

> "Scrubbing":  that's what he claimed he has doing, but I hardly think it
> rises to a ticketable offense on a deserted street.

Yeah, it seems like it's out of line to get the ticket, but all the
cop saw was the bike weaving all over the road.  I'd explain what I
was doing to the cop in order to maybe not get the ticket, and then
to the judge to maybe get the charge reduced or dismissed.

It would be interesting to see how his battle turned out.
--
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:24:07 2001
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:22:21 -0500

I've *never* done anything as reckless as a stoppie or even a wheelie.  I
can't believe that someone on this list would have the immaturity to operate
a motor vehicle in such a manner.

I am appalled.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200

<note:  It is pretty wienie-ish to misbehave and complain when you get
caught and penalized>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:29:29 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:31:45 -0500

A "small" endo, a foot off the ground?  A minor hop might happen
accidentally, but a foot sounds pre-meditated to me.  I'm also wondering how
snapping the lever to raise the tire off the ground is "good" braking
technique.  A nice circus trick, too be sure, but good bike handling.  A
little quiz.  Biker A has one wheel off the ground and 40% +/- of his
contact patch available for stopping and only one tire providing directional
control.  Biker B has both wheels on the pavement, 100% of his tire contact
patch available for stopping and directional control.  Is it A or B who has
better control of his bike?

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
www.wilsonline.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>




>>> <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX> wrote <SNIP>
>A P.G. county cop hit me with a wreckless driving ticket.
>What did I do?  I used too good braking technique. A small endo
>with the back tire coming up about a foot off the ground. (stopping at
>a red light)
--

Come on now Danny, who are you trying to convince? Us or the Judge

Everyone here, who has read some of your posts, know that you hang with the
Squidly crowd (IE DC sportbike) in PG county, and that stoppie was fully
done on purpose. PLEASE!

Yes it sucks to get a ticket like that, but I would be really surprised if
you talk your way out of that one.  Go to court and plead guilty with
explanation is what I would do and hope for the best.

BTW It takes a serious effort to perform a stoppie, usually one grab on the
lever to compress the front and another really hard pull to bring up the
rear.  I er read this in a PB magazine a while back.

George Cole
01 FZ1





From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 14:40:00 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:39:55 -0500
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--Apple-Mail-3--790775740

A "small" endo, a foot off the ground?

Actually, as far as stoppies go, 1 ft. is rather small.

And the correct term is "stoppie". An endo is where the rear tire comes
up so far that during its arc is passes the front wheel. "Endo" is
derived from the phrase "end-over-end".

Just being particular.


Sean Jordan


--Apple-Mail-3--790775740

<color><param>0000,0000,DEDE</param>A "small" endo, a foot off the
ground?

</color>

Actually, as far as stoppies go, 1 ft. is rather small.


And the correct term is "stoppie". An endo is where the rear tire
comes up so far that during its arc is passes the front wheel. "Endo"
is derived from the phrase "end-over-end".


Just being particular.



Sean Jordan



--Apple-Mail-3--790775740--


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:01:07 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:58:34 -0500
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: braking thread

At 02:31 PM 12/5/01, Paul Wilson wrote:
>A
>little quiz.  Biker A has one wheel off the ground and 40% +/- of his
>contact patch available for stopping and only one tire providing directional
>control.  Biker B has both wheels on the pavement, 100% of his tire contact
>patch available for stopping and directional control.  Is it A or B who has
>better control of his bike?

And this begins the braking thread.  If you bring this up on rec.moto, you
get two schools of thought.

First - a hard braking situation forces most weight to the front of the
bike, making it very hard to use much of the rear brake without
skidding.  So in this scenario a stoppie means you applied full front
braking where it does the most good.

Second - proper braking by easing both levers will stop you faster than the
first situation - but maybe not in a panic stop.

It is fairly easy to argue both sides, and I have no idea what the experts
believe is the correct scenario.  The longer wheelbase and higher weight of
the VFR and general seating position means that most of my hard braking has
not generated an endo - but it has happened once or twice.  It is much
easier to endo on supersports that weigh less and have bigger discs.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:06:10 2001
From: "Wesleyan Hsu" <wes@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:03:55 -0500

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sdave@XXXXXX [mailto:sdave@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:40 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
>
> from expunging in MD.  If you think that's too much, consider
> this, your insurance will go up on all of your vehicles at
> least a hundred / year, for a minimum of 3 years  IF you get
> no other tickets or accidents...  and 100 / vehicle is a
> conservative estimate, at best.

$100 per year per vehicle is VERY conservative. Unfortunately, I know
from experience. Up until November of 99, I had a flawless record. No
tickets ever. Nothing. I was caught doing 93 in the 55 on the Dulles
Toll Road in my M3. I went to court (had a REALLY bad lawyer) and plead
guilty with explanation. I got some kind of fine ($300?) and 6 months
suspension. I appealed to get a lowered fine and 6 months of restricted
driving (so I could at least go to work). I got a friend to call my
insurance company and asked what would happen to "my friend's" insurance
under this circumstance. They said "your friend's" rate would probably
triple. And that's just for one car.

Well, since then, I got a second car and 2 bikes. I pay over $1100 per
year to insure those bikes, and I don't remember how much for that
second car (a beater daily driver). I hear insurance companies only look
back 3 years...so come Feb of '04 (the date I got my license suspended),
I should be totally clean again (insurance wise). What a wonderful day
that will be.

Another story...my neighbor got his reckless doing 102 in a 65. He spent
48 hours in the pokey. At least I didn't go to jail...but he hit the
magic triple digits. Oh yeah, in VA, a reckless ticket is considered a
criminal offense. Gotta love this wonderful Commonwealth. Hopefully it's
not the same in MD.

The point is this...you want to do whatever you can to get this recorded
as anything but a reckless. Pay for a very good lawyer. Ask for double,
triple, or even quadruple the fine. Offer to take a MSF
class...ANYTHING. If s/he can get this reduced to something other than
reckless (improper stopping?), the amount you pay this lawyer and fines
will be extremely worth it.

BTW, how are the courts in PG? In Fairfax County, if you get nailed,
they're going to sentence you hard. In Loudoun County, they are MUCH
more lax. Many times with a reckless ticket, you can ask for deferred
adjudication. Stay clean for 6 months and they wipe this event from your
record as if it never happened.

Good luck,
Wes Hsu
'01 R1100SA
'96 CBR900RR



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:20:41 2001
From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:20:36 -0500

You are going to have to wait past '04 for that to be cleaned off.  VA keeps
reckless around for 11 years, acoording to the DMV website atleast
(http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/points_6.asp).

Happy Holidays


-----Original Message-----
From: Wesleyan Hsu [mailto:wes@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:04 PM
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets


> -----Original Message-----
> From: sdave@XXXXXX [mailto:sdave@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:40 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
>
> from expunging in MD.  If you think that's too much, consider
> this, your insurance will go up on all of your vehicles at
> least a hundred / year, for a minimum of 3 years  IF you get
> no other tickets or accidents...  and 100 / vehicle is a
> conservative estimate, at best.

$100 per year per vehicle is VERY conservative. Unfortunately, I know
from experience. Up until November of 99, I had a flawless record. No
tickets ever. Nothing. I was caught doing 93 in the 55 on the Dulles
Toll Road in my M3. I went to court (had a REALLY bad lawyer) and plead
guilty with explanation. I got some kind of fine ($300?) and 6 months
suspension. I appealed to get a lowered fine and 6 months of restricted
driving (so I could at least go to work). I got a friend to call my
insurance company and asked what would happen to "my friend's" insurance
under this circumstance. They said "your friend's" rate would probably
triple. And that's just for one car.

Well, since then, I got a second car and 2 bikes. I pay over $1100 per
year to insure those bikes, and I don't remember how much for that
second car (a beater daily driver). I hear insurance companies only look
back 3 years...so come Feb of '04 (the date I got my license suspended),
I should be totally clean again (insurance wise). What a wonderful day
that will be.

Another story...my neighbor got his reckless doing 102 in a 65. He spent
48 hours in the pokey. At least I didn't go to jail...but he hit the
magic triple digits. Oh yeah, in VA, a reckless ticket is considered a
criminal offense. Gotta love this wonderful Commonwealth. Hopefully it's
not the same in MD.

The point is this...you want to do whatever you can to get this recorded
as anything but a reckless. Pay for a very good lawyer. Ask for double,
triple, or even quadruple the fine. Offer to take a MSF
class...ANYTHING. If s/he can get this reduced to something other than
reckless (improper stopping?), the amount you pay this lawyer and fines
will be extremely worth it.

BTW, how are the courts in PG? In Fairfax County, if you get nailed,
they're going to sentence you hard. In Loudoun County, they are MUCH
more lax. Many times with a reckless ticket, you can ask for deferred
adjudication. Stay clean for 6 months and they wipe this event from your
record as if it never happened.

Good luck,
Wes Hsu
'01 R1100SA
'96 CBR900RR


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:30:19 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:30:06 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets

At 03:20 PM 12/5/01, Gaske David G DLVA wrote:
>You are going to have to wait past '04 for that to be cleaned off.  VA keeps
>reckless around for 11 years, acoording to the DMV website atleast
>(http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/points_6.asp).

Fortunately your driving record has a longer memory than your insurance
records.  They generally only go back 3 years - but some go back 5.

FWIW I had a reckless a few years ago.  82 in a 55 on 66 in the
cage.  Driving with the flow of traffic - wasn't passing anyone.  Judge
told me he was sending people to jail for reckless - but I had 0 points, so
he only fined me.  No suspension.  Insurance rates never went up.  I love USAA.

It is ridiculous to send people to jail for wreck-less speeding.


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:35:46 2001
Subject: RE: oh speaking of tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:35:57 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>


Wes confessed -

$100 per year per vehicle is VERY conservative. Unfortunately, I know
from experience. Up until November of 99, I had a flawless record. No
tickets ever. Nothing. I was caught doing 93 in the 55 on the Dulles
Toll Road in my M3.


   <DJY>  Topped it out, did you ;-)  bah.  I've got nothing against BMW or M car drivers, they always pull to the right when I pass them on the track...

    Anyway, now that I'm done ribbing, let's take a look.  93 in a 55, in an M3...  Cops hate BMW's, Lexii, Infinity, Porsche - basically what they can't afford.


I went to court (had a REALLY bad lawyer) and plead
guilty with explanation.


    <DJY>  ?????????   was this not a traffic lawyer ?  SURELY a lawyer could've shot holes in at least one aspect of a traffic stop - pacing, current maintenance, engineering study of average speeds, officer vehicle stop record...


I got some kind of fine ($300?) and 6 months
suspension. I appealed to get a lowered fine and 6 months of restricted
driving (so I could at least go to work). I got a friend to call my
insurance company and asked what would happen to "my friend's" insurance
under this circumstance. They said "your friend's" rate would probably
triple. And that's just for one car.

Well, since then, I got a second car and 2 bikes. I pay over $1100 per
year to insure those bikes, and I don't remember how much for that
second car (a beater daily driver). I hear insurance companies only look
back 3 years...so come Feb of '04 (the date I got my license suspended),
I should be totally clean again (insurance wise). What a wonderful day
that will be.


   <DJY>  I had a coworker with a need for speed similar to mine.  he had a 3000 GT VR4 and got snagged at 50 & the Beltway in VA for Reckless #3.  They actually had the county prosecutor show up for the case, so (Pat being at least somewhat intelligent & got a good lawyer) they continued.  The lawyer was good, and negotiated a 10 day 'administrative suspension', $1000.00 fine, and 6 months 'administrative' probation.  He stayed clean, and it never showed on his record - as per the plea agreement.  All of us in the office felt that Pat DEFINITELY got a good deal...

Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:41:01 2001
From: "Wesleyan Hsu" <wes@XXXXXX>
To: "'Gaske David G DLVA'" <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:38:12 -0500

Yes, I know VA keeps it on for 11 years, but from what I've heard (and
it is somewhat confirmed by my applications for new insurance) is that
insurance companies only care about offenses that have occurred within
the past 3 years.

Of course, this is not 100% confirmed, so perhaps I will be screwed by
the insurance companies until I'm dead.

Wes Hsu
'01 R1100SA
'96 CBR900RR

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gaske David G DLVA [mailto:GaskeDG@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:21 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
> You are going to have to wait past '04 for that to be cleaned
> off.  VA keeps reckless around for 11 years, acoording to the
> DMV website atleast
> (http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/drivers/points_6.asp).



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:44:22 2001
Subject: RE: oh speaking of tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:44:16 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Wes spoke the words of eternal truth -


I will be screwed by
the insurance companies until I'm dead.


   <DJY>  This much is a given, like death, and taxes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:45:59 2001
From: "Jon Strang" <jstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: FW: new 'ginger'
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 15:44:12 -0500




http://www.wherearemypants.com/images/storyimages/segway-r.jpg




From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:54:50 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:53:26 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Troutman wrote:

> It is ridiculous to send people to jail for wreck-less speeding.

So that guy who did 160 on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago a while
ago didn't deserve to spend some time in the slammer?

--
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 15:57:16 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 15:56:23 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Wesleyan Hsu <wes@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'Gaske David G DLVA'" <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Wesleyan Hsu wrote:

> so perhaps I will be screwed by
> the insurance companies until I'm dead.

Uhh, aren't we all?  :)

Horkster
--
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:02:03 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 16:01:42 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets

At 03:53 PM 12/5/01, you wrote:
> > It is ridiculous to send people to jail for wreck-less speeding.
>
>So that guy who did 160 on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago a while
>ago didn't deserve to spend some time in the slammer?

Did he do anything than get that cop off his ass to go write him
up?  License suspension is one thing, huge fines are another ... but jail
time is something else.

You could argue that he did that on a city street - endangering lives - but
in the end, all he did was speed.


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:03:55 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: braking thread
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:05:31 -0500

----- Original Message -----
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
>
> And this begins the braking thread.  If you bring this up on rec.moto, you
> get two schools of thought.
>
> First - a hard braking situation forces most weight to the front of the
> bike, making it very hard to use much of the rear brake without
> skidding.  So in this scenario a stoppie means you applied full front
> braking where it does the most good.
>
> Second - proper braking by easing both levers will stop you faster than
the
> first situation - but maybe not in a panic stop.
>
> It is fairly easy to argue both sides, and I have no idea what the experts
> believe is the correct scenario.  The longer wheelbase and higher weight
of
> the VFR and general seating position means that most of my hard braking
has
> not generated an endo - but it has happened once or twice.  It is much
> easier to endo on supersports that weigh less and have bigger discs.

Usually this doesn't come up until February. :)  Anyway, stopping well and
braking hard are not one and the same.  Part of braking is the thinking
process before the brakes even get activated.  We should not rely on getting
10/10ths out of our brakes in case we need to ease off due to poor traction,
etc.  Perhaps we can swerve instead of brake.  MSF course materials say that
swerving is more effective than braking in obstacle avoidance above 20 mph,
all other conditions being equal, such as you have a clear path around the
obstacle, etc.

Paul in DC



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:12:28 2001
Subject: RE: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:13:00 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mike T. asks an important question -

Did he do anything than get that cop off his ass to go write him
up?  License suspension is one thing, huge fines are another ... but jail
time is something else.

You could argue that he did that on a city street - endangering lives - but
in the end, all he did was speed.


   <DJY>

  True all he did was speed.  but jail time removes the 'only in it for the money argument' from the equation, now doesn't it ?
I'd much rather the government tax me up front, than from behind with this ticket writing Bull$hit.  (not referring at all to mr. 160, above)

I think jail time for speeding is a good thing.  Think about it, only a few are going to get nabbed per day, due to all the excess paperwork.  next, all the traffic court judges will have a lot less to do.  then, let's not forget, it will cost $$$$$$$$ to house all the new found scofflaws.  That means major budget shortfalls, the kind that a simple tax increase isn't going to fix - we're talking major staff reductions in the courts and traffic cops.  PLUS - the playing field will be leveled because the State will now have to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of our peers - not a judge bent on collecting revenue...

  One need only look to DC (sorry, Paul) to see what happens when you go the opposite direction...

Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:40:16 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:41:00 -0500


----- Original Message -----
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
...
I think jail time for speeding is a good thing.  Think about it, only a few
are going to get nabbed per day, due to all the excess paperwork.  next, all
the traffic court judges will have a lot less to do.  then, let's not
forget, it will cost $$$$$$$$ to house all the new found scofflaws.  That
means major budget shortfalls, the kind that a simple tax increase isn't
going to fix - we're talking major staff reductions in the courts and
traffic cops.  PLUS - the playing field will be leveled because the State
will now have to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of our
peers - not a judge bent on collecting revenue...

  One need only look to DC (sorry, Paul) to see what happens when you go the
opposite direction...

Dave

<PAW>

Um, Dave if you're looking for a defense of DC's use of radar cams, look
elsewhere.  If you're looking for me to say that speeding on city streets
full of pedestrians, cyclists, etc., is a "victimless crime" and speeding
laws are only about revenue collection you'll need look elsewhere too.  Just
because there are jurisdictions who abuse traffic laws for this purpose does
not make the laws themselves a bad idea.  Someone--I think it was you
actually!--called Hizzoner the Mayor and suggested community service in
lieu.  I think that's a super idea.  A dozen hours fluffing pillows down at
the homeless shelter or picking up cigarette butts in a park would cut these
"road royals" down to size.

Paul in DC


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:49:07 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:49:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Rahi Golshan <rahig2000@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>, sdave@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

--0-131485657-1007588940=:57136


 If it is not too much trouble, please take me off of this list. not aloud emails at work.. thanks
  Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From:
...
I think jail time for speeding is a good thing. Think about it, only a few
are going to get nabbed per day, due to all the excess paperwork. next, all
the traffic court judges will have a lot less to do. then, let's not
forget, it will cost $$$$$$$$ to house all the new found scofflaws. That
means major budget shortfalls, the kind that a simple tax increase isn't
going to fix - we're talking major staff reductions in the courts and
traffic cops. PLUS - the playing field will be leveled because the State
will now have to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of our
peers - not a judge bent on collecting revenue...

One need only look to DC (sorry, Paul) to see what happens when you go the
opposite direction...

Dave




Um, Dave if you're looking for a defense of DC's use of radar cams, look
elsewhere. If you're looking for me to say that speeding on city streets
full of pedestrians, cyclists, etc., is a "victimless crime" and speeding
laws are only about revenue collection you'll need look elsewhere too. Just
because there are jurisdictions who abuse traffic laws for this purpose does
not make the laws themselves a bad idea. Someone--I think it was you
actually!--called Hizzoner the Mayor and suggested community service in
lieu. I think that's a super idea. A dozen hours fluffing pillows down at
the homeless shelter or picking up cigarette butts in a park would cut these
"road royals" down to size.

Paul in DC



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings.
--0-131485657-1007588940=:57136

<P>&nbsp;If it is not too much trouble, please take me off of this list. not aloud emails at work.. thanks
<P>&nbsp; <B><I>Paul Wilson &lt;pawilson@XXXXXX&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: <SDAVE@XXXXXX><BR>...<BR>I think jail time for speeding is a good thing. Think about it, only a few<BR>are going to get nabbed per day, due to all the excess paperwork. next, all<BR>the traffic court judges will have a lot less to do. then, let's not<BR>forget, it will cost $$$$$$$$ to house all the new found scofflaws. That<BR>means major budget shortfalls, the kind that a simple tax increase isn't<BR>going to fix - we're talking major staff reductions in the courts and<BR>traffic cops. PLUS - the playing field will be leveled because the State<BR>will now have to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury of our<BR>peers - not a judge bent on collecting revenue...<BR><BR>One need only look to DC (sorry, Paul) to see what happens when you go the<BR>opposite direction...<BR><BR>Dave<BR><BR><PAW><BR><BR>Um, Dave if you're looking for a defense of DC's use of radar
ams, look<BR>elsewhere. If you're looking for me to say that speeding on city streets<BR>full of pedestrians, cyclists, etc., is a "victimless crime" and speeding<BR>laws are only about revenue collection you'll need look elsewhere too. Just<BR>because there are jurisdictions who abuse traffic laws for this purpose does<BR>not make the laws themselves a bad idea. Someone--I think it was you<BR>actually!--called Hizzoner the Mayor and suggested community service in<BR>lieu. I think that's a super idea. A dozen hours fluffing pillows down at<BR>the homeless shelter or picking up cigarette butts in a park would cut these<BR>"road royals" down to size.<BR><BR>Paul in DC<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
Send your FREE holiday greetings online at <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/tag/?http://greetings.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Greetings</a>.
--0-131485657-1007588940=:57136--

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 16:51:48 2001
Subject: RE: Re: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:52:37 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I yet again sandbagged DC ...

  One need only look to DC (sorry, Paul) to see what happens when you go the
opposite direction...

Dave

<PAW>

Um, Dave if you're looking for a defense of DC's use of radar cams, look
elsewhere.  If you're looking for me to say that speeding on city streets
full of pedestrians, cyclists, etc., is a "victimless crime" and speeding
laws are only about revenue collection you'll need look elsewhere too.  Just
because there are jurisdictions who abuse traffic laws for this purpose does
not make the laws themselves a bad idea.


  <DJY> I only directed the apology to you in advance because, well, there just isn't much I like about DC, but I didn't want it to seem like I was goading you...  Nevertheless, traffic cams are a bad idea, they're for nothing more than $$$, period.  If it were about anything else, there wouldn't be a fine, there would also be points.  Not that we should drag race down Constitution Ave.  ...


  Someone--I think it was you
actually!--called Hizzoner the Mayor and suggested community service in
lieu.  I think that's a super idea.


   <DJY>  Yes, that was me, and no, they won't do it.  Why?  because they want only your $$$


  A dozen hours fluffing pillows down at
the homeless shelter or picking up cigarette butts in a park would cut these
"road royals" down to size.

   <DJY>  And, it would have the side benefit of forcing Hizzoner & his cohorts to live more within their means since all that $$$ wouldn't be there...

Dave


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 17:13:34 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:13:43 -0500
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets

At 01:32 PM 12/5/01, Troutman wrote:
>Meanwhile, hand B says : You weren't paying attention and had to panic
>brake to avoid hitting your friends OR you did stoppie on purpose.  Either
>way - it was reckless.

There's a difference between "inattentive" and "reckless", Mike.

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 17:24:50 2001
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:25:15 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Federal law on GW Parkway?

I know that enforcement on the GW Parkway on the Virginia side is done by
Park Police, but does anyone know what laws apply on that road? Are they
separate Federal statutes, or do all Virginia laws -- including the
reckless by speed provisions -- apply on the Parkway too? Thanks.

Thanks -- Larry

'01 Aprilia Mille SL Falco
'84 Interceptor 500 (small emergency backup bike)
'01 Suzuki GS500 (dependable small emergency backup bike to the small
emergency backup bike)


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 20:20:37 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 17:20:36 -0800 (PST)
From: PJ Taei <pjtaei@XXXXXX>
Subject: I fell down :(
To: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

My name is PJ T. and I like riding, so one day I went
skydiving(I like to yell and jump out of an airplane),
anyways I was going to fast and I fell down. :(

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 20:55:54 2001
From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Federal law on GW Parkway?
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:53:05 -0500

Larry asks a doozey -
I know that enforcement on the GW Parkway on the Virginia side is done
by
Park Police, but does anyone know what laws apply on that road? Are they
separate Federal statutes, or do all Virginia laws -- including the
reckless by speed provisions -- apply on the Parkway too? Thanks.


	<DJY>  Very good question.  *technically* it's National Park Service
land, so they enforce Federal law.  However, deep down on their website
it indicates that if the state allows it, Park Police may enforce state
law as well.  I'd be willing to bet money that VA has agreed.  So, what
about your (figuratively) concealed handgun ; perfectly legal by permit
in VA, but highly ILLEGAL by NPS regulation and debatably by statute
(reads something like non lawful purposes)...  so what's enforced???  An
inexpensive way to find out would be to drive up & down the parkway with
a radar detector, and deliberately ride in front of a PP officer.  It's
not a moving violation...  Any volunteers ?




Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec  5 21:19:34 2001
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 18:19:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I say no.  People are thrown into jail for the dumbest
things anymore...  that's why our jails are full of
non-violent criminals, mostly minor drug offenses.
And that judge in Southern VA has been throwing people
in jail for 90 on I-81, that rediculous!

Glenn

--- Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Troutman wrote:
>
> > It is ridiculous to send people to jail for
> wreck-less speeding.
>
> So that guy who did 160 on Lake Shore Drive in
> Chicago a while
> ago didn't deserve to spend some time in the
> slammer?
>
> --
> MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)
>
> Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth
>
> AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!
>
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 09:32:23 2001
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:31:54 EST
Subject: Re: braking thread
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 12/5/2001 4:05:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pawilson@XXXXXX writes:

> MSF course materials say that
>  swerving is more effective than braking in obstacle avoidance above 20 mph,

I have to ask, and short of filling this with silly emoticons I fear it will
seem harsh. That is not my intention at all I just want to clarify.

Where do they say that?
I do not remember that blanket statement and do not find it in any of my
materials (MRC-RSS, ERC, BRC.) Not that I re-read every word again so it may
be there. What I do find is
"Research has shown that speeds above about 18 mph, a motorcycle can swerve
to avoid a car-sized obstacle in less distance than it takes to stop. (BRC
RiderHandbook P.38)"
_And that is not the same thing at all._ This example is a stopped car
(narrow end) A larger obstacle, or a moving one for instance may require
braking first, then swerving, or just braking, or there may be no place to
swerve to. (This is one damn big obstacle why did you not see it?) MSF takes
pains to point out that in fact what to do is totally dependant on
circumstances. I also find an example at no less then _50 mph._.
"Your speed is 50 mph... What can you do?... Brake hard, then swerve... (ERC
IG P.   VII-35."
In this case (an animal (Human or not)) in the road. there is no way to
predict which way they will go so you are as likely to swerve into them as
around them. The important thing here is to slow down, and hope that the
animal will move in one direction or the other so you can swerve the other
way, and if not you will at least be slowed down.

Give me a page # and a quote and I will be glad to apologize if in fact it
states what you say.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 09:38:29 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 09:41:45 -0800


As far as a witness, there was one..  there were six of us, riding
orginized and staggered, but pulling up to the light, we pulled up in
groups of two per lane.  One was a new rider at the back, (second to
last) She pulled up, and I pulled up next to her.



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 09:59:15 2001
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 06:59:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

hell no!  not for speeding anyway.  that guy got 160mph out
of a cbr600!

he should have been locked up for attempted theft in trying
to get $10k for the autographed bike on ebay.

--
tg


--- Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Troutman wrote:
>
> > It is ridiculous to send people to jail for wreck-less
> speeding.
>
> So that guy who did 160 on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago a
> while
> ago didn't deserve to spend some time in the slammer?



__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:01:25 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:04:42 -0800

It doens't take serious effort. all it takes is grabbing the brakes...

there are a lot of accidents that are preceeded by people grabbing the
brakes... and the bike going down or flipping over forward.. it all
depends if your wheel is straight and you're balanced. If you've got
good brakign habbits, you'll be balanced.  Supposing your'e on a
wonderfully equipped sportbike such as the zx6r I ride.

Of course I do squidly things... but if you have any sense of what the
american legal system is about, you don't get tried for your history,
other crimes not named in the charging document,  the content of your
character, or anything else, you get tried for a specific occurance of
violation of law.. and that's how it should be. The jails aren't big
enough to hold everyone, if you know what i mean.. there are no saints
round these har parts!

Now my academic arguement is that endos are a result of the brake
working to it's maximum.... I can be going pretty fast, apply my
brake, have my back wheel come off the ground without me ever coming
to a stop.. That's maximum use of braking..  should that be a crime?
I say no!

and the practical discussion is how can I win my court case, or
atleast get the most lienient punishment.

As far as to who I ride with, or if I am squidly, If you want to just
flame me because you don't like me or my types round har'  then maybe
you should look into your own anti-social personality issues. That has
nothing to do with the case at hand.

1. Too many humans lack tolerance, and hate
2. The old motherly adage of "if you can't say anything nice"

Maybe you should consider those things.. Ben Franklin, wash your
fingers before you point at my spots.

As far as the practical advice given,  thank you for your response.
I still feel this is another instance of 1> vague law  2> an act which
shouldn't be a crime.

(throw in some philosophical debates here: disobedience to tyranny is
obediance to God, the more numerous the laws the more corrupt the
state, giving in changes nothing)  :)

thank you and have a blessed day!

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:10:30 2001
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 07:10:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>, Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX> wrote:
> At 01:32 PM 12/5/01, Troutman wrote:
> >Meanwhile, hand B says : You weren't paying attention
> and had to panic
> >brake to avoid hitting your friends OR you did stoppie
> on purpose.  Either
> >way - it was reckless.
>
> There's a difference between "inattentive" and
> "reckless", Mike.

and for some reason we gave individual police officers the
discretion to make that call and turn a simple lapse in
safe driving (negligence) into a jailable offense.



--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:14:11 2001
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:17:28 -0800

|><note:  It is pretty wienie-ish to misbehave and complain when you get
|>caught and penalized>

Actually I bite tickets pretty well.. when I average out what I do vs
the getting caught ratio.. I find that instead of spending years in
prison and costly fortunes... I make out better than most. way better.

I just average out what I do, and what I get caught for...  it's like
under thirty two dollars per serious incident, and that's not counting
the uncountable wheelies endos, and high chairs I do..

Oh let's throw in the arguement I pay taxes and should be able to use
the streets too, as long as I'm not endagering anyone else. If a squid
kid wants to wheelie on an empty road.. by all means..  Are we going
to start banning the legal use of public shadowboxing because if
someone were near they could get socked in the nose?

who's whining? I'm just debating legal merit and trying to beat the
ticket because I feel that particular thing shouldn't be a crime. I
think all motorcyclists (with capable bikes) should know how to, and
be allowed to, use their braking to the maxiumum, even if it *LOOKS*
like a stunt.  We dont need "feel good" unpractical laws.

if it's illegal to use your brakes to the maxium, isn't that kind of
backwards?  That's a much needed skill to avoid accidents. Should you
NOT be allowed to use your brakes in a manner that could save your
life, because the bike shifts weight and the rear wheel comes up?

That's my arguement. Whining.. no. I'm not bitching at all..  did I
bitch about my three hundred dollar speeding ticket last year? no.
Money comes and goes, tickets are just taxes on riding. who cares.
This is about principle though.

Am I a badboy? yes. Am I evil incarnate? no.

Danny
seems like I just walked into glass houseville. hehhehe

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:25:25 2001
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:18:48 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets


On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
<snip>
> She pulled up, and I pulled up next to her.
>
Was she impressed?

Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:34:54 2001
Subject: RE: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:34:59 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Daniel said (strange how close that is to denial...) -

It doens't take serious effort. all it takes is grabbing the brakes...

there are a lot of accidents that are preceeded by people grabbing the
brakes... ...Supposing your'e on a wonderfully equipped sportbike such as the zx6r I ride.


   <DJY>  on some machines it does take serious effort and with some riders.


Of course I do squidly things... but if you have any sense of what the
american legal system is about, you don't get tried for your history,
other crimes not named in the charging document...


   <DJY> Stop waving the flag, this is TRAFFIC court, your rights are non existent there.  We're just trying to point out some ways to avoid future run ins with officer friendly.  And BTW, PG is not exactly the safest place to get stopped for a serious (they think) traffic stop.


 there are no saints round these har parts!


   <DJY>  Good point.  I'll bet a search of the archives will show at least some of your critics have done the same stuff..


Now my academic arguement is that endos are a result of the brake
working to it's maximum.... I can be going pretty fast, apply my
brake, have my back wheel come off the ground without me ever coming
to a stop.. That's maximum use of braking..  should that be a crime?
I say no!


   <DJY>  Stoppies (Endo?  isn't that the Ferrari guy ?)  are to braking what wheelies are to accelerating - beyond the point of maximum efficiency, resulting in lost braking power.  Both are not unavoidable, but in some situations it may be impractical to avoid them.  Lofting the rear wheel is not maximum braking, it's show braking, maximum braking is both tires howling as you come to a stop so hard it hurts your wrists, elbows, shoulders as you fight to not fly over the bars...

Should any of this be a crime ?  You can make an argument for wheelies being a crime - I'm not saying I think it should be, just that you can make the argument.  One of my fellow instructors is a local deputy, and as he puts it, 'you're not in total control of the vehicle at that point (a wheelie)'.  I responded with 'you're more out of control of your cruiser doing 80 to catch me after doing the wheelie, than I ever was doing the wheelie, and you're putting the public at risk by pushing a passenger vehicle to extremes of sports car levels.  Sooner or later the laws of physics will catch up with you and write you a huge ticket'...  He did NOT see the humor, did not sympathize, nor did he agree at 1st...  He did concede his crown vic wasn't the optimal vehicle to run down speeders...  4 of us chided him for some of his comments, hopefully he got something from it...
No, most of this is a money grab by the state.  Cops are far more dangerous as a demographic than seniors, teenagers & 20 somethings combined as drivers.  I'm not saying it should be a free for all on the roads, but there's plenty of other productive things the cops could be doing than write your Reckless ticket...



and the practical discussion is how can I win my court case, or
atleast get the most lienient punishment.

As far as to who I ride with, or if I am squidly, If you want to just
flame me because you don't like me or my types round har'  then maybe
you should look into your own anti-social personality issues.


    <DJY>  BTDTGTTS .   Anti social is such an ugly term.  I prefer separatist.


 That has
nothing to do with the case at hand.

1. Too many humans lack tolerance, and hate


   <DJY>  Hate is in our nature.  There's nothing wrong with a little properly focused hatred... Focused, say on taxes, speed cameras etc...

As far as the practical advice given,  thank you for your response.
I still feel this is another instance of 1> vague law  2> an act which
shouldn't be a crime.


   <DJY>  Do you want to make a stand for your Rights as an American, or win / lower your 'on hook responsibility' for the crime which you are charged with ?  They're mutually exclusive, and if you even think of attacking the law itself, it's application, the officer that applied it, or principle, you will lose.


(throw in some philosophical debates here: disobedience to tyranny is
obediance to God, the more numerous the laws the more corrupt the
state, giving in changes nothing)  :)


   <DJY>  Sure, but that doesn't change one whit that you got caught red handed.  You really need to get a lawyer.  They will be able to guide you best on how to proceed.

Dave


thank you and have a blessed day!

Danny

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:45:19 2001
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:21:51 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

At 01:04 PM 12/6/01, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

>.... I can be going pretty fast, apply my
>brake, have my back wheel come off the ground without me ever coming
>to a stop.. That's maximum use of braking..  should that be a crime?
>I say no!

I say yes. That's willfully giving up a major degree of control of your
vehicle while moving, and I'd say that's reckless driving, to a "T".

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:48:28 2001
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:48:15 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort

At 10:34 AM 12/6/01, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
>Do you want to make a stand for your Rights as an American, or win / lower
>your 'on hook responsibility' for the crime which you are charged with
>?  They're mutually exclusive, and if you even think of attacking the law
>itself, it's application, the officer that applied it, or principle, you
>will lose.

Anyone looking to beat a ticket AND take a stand should be investing in the
NMA with me each year.  I'm debating getting a life membership - but like
the AMA - that is a big hunk of cash.

www.motorists.org

The NMA is a good organization - fighting speed bumps, red light cameras,
speed traps, DRLs (debate is open), and a host of other things.  Most
members are cagers - but many are motorcyclists.  The big plus is that if
you use their speeding ticket fighting kit - and still get a ticket - they
will pay the fine for you.  Check 'em out!  I give memberships for (some)
Christmas gifts!



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:50:36 2001
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:48:49 -0500

<snip>
> Oh let's throw in the arguement I pay taxes and should be able to use
> the streets too, as long as I'm not endagering anyone else. If a squid
> kid wants to wheelie on an empty road.. by all means..

It wasn't an empty road.  So much for that argument.
And you *are* able to use the roads, within the limits of the law, as are
the rest of us.  The roads aren't there as your playground or runway for
displaying the latest in motorcycle stoppie fashion, they are there for
plain, boring, transportation.

But you did a stoppie with people in front of you.  The officer, as is his
prerogative, determined that it was reckless.  If you think he's wrong, hire
an attorney and go to court.  In any case, hire an attorney and go to
court...this (alleged) infraction is on its way to DUI territory as far as
the penalties you're looking at (counting insurance, etc).

> Are we going
> to start banning the legal use of public shadowboxing because if
> someone were near they could get socked in the nose?

No, but your right to shadow box ends when there is a chance you might
clobber someone else.  If you were swinging your fists wildly in a metro
station at rush hour, you'd deserve to be arrested.  Not for shadow boxing
per se....just as you didn't get a ticket for "very cool stoppie" or
"bad-boy posing."

By definition of public roads, the roads may be used by others.  Besides the
obvious 6 mile stretches in Montana, you *always* have a chance of someone
pulling into the road, coming around the corner, or otherwise being unseen
and suddenly in your path.

> who's whining? I'm just debating legal merit and trying to beat the
> ticket because I feel that particular thing shouldn't be a crime.

On DC Cycles?  WTF?  I don't think the judge you'll be in front of gives a
rat's ass what legal precedents you (or any of the rest of us) set in DC
Cycles.  And it sure sounded like a whine when I read the initial post.  A
2200Hz/105dB whine, kinda like a bearing going bad in a large centrifugal
compressor.

But I could be wrong...maybe it was a well-thought out opening statement for
a debate.

> I think all motorcyclists (with capable bikes) should know how to, and
> be allowed to, use their braking to the maxiumum, even if it *LOOKS*
> like a stunt.  We dont need "feel good" unpractical laws.

They are allowed to...on private property and on the racetrack.

I doubt the cop would've ticketed you if you were really practicing your
braking in an abandoned parking lot.  Especially if you explained what you
were doing with the appropriate "yes sir" and "no sir" interspersed as
necessary.  But you didn't.  You did a freakin' stoppie in traffic with
people in front of you.  You endangered THEM.  Anyone behind you was also
endangered...just as if you slammed on the brakes without warning while
driving down the road in your car.  That is why you got the ticket.

> if it's illegal to use your brakes to the maxium, isn't that kind of
> backwards?  That's a much needed skill to avoid accidents. Should you
> NOT be allowed to use your brakes in a manner that could save your
> life, because the bike shifts weight and the rear wheel comes up?

If you have to use your brakes to the maximum while on a public road, you or
someone else f#cked up, you are in extremis, and you are making a concerted
effort to get into a safe state.  No ticket for the brake usage...

Hypothetical: You're cruising down I-66.  The guy in the SUV in front of you
(doing 56 in the 55mph zone), in the fast lane, decides to "use [his] brakes
to the maximum."  You get pasted to his rear bumper.  Did he do anything
wrong?

> That's my arguement. Whining.. no. I'm not bitching at all..  did I
> bitch about my three hundred dollar speeding ticket last year? no.
> Money comes and goes, tickets are just taxes on riding. who cares.
> This is about principle though.

Not really. You're upset b/c you got gigged.  Hey, I understand.  I spend as
much time as anyone else on one wheel or the other and/or going at an insane
speed.  But hey, when I get caught, I have to pay.  It sucks, I whine, I
whine loud, and I know it.

--jon


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 10:54:56 2001
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: braking thread
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:51:03 -0500

Perhaps I over-simplified to keep it short and sweet, instead of turning it
into a Talmudic discussion of MSF scripture, since 99.9% on the list
probably could give a rat's heiny about what the solons at MSF say.  ;)
[Emoticon added to soften potentially harsh reply.]  My intention was to
point out that there are other options besides so-called "panic" or maximum
braking.  I said, "MSF course materials say that swerving is more effective
than braking in obstacle avoidance above 20 mph, (damn close to 18 mph don't
you think) all other conditions being equal, such as you have a clear path
around the obstacle, etc."  You left off the second part "all other
conditions being equal."

As you say a lot is dependent on conditions.  A 2 x 4 in the road
perpendicular to my path of travel, swerve or even surmount;  a deer, stop
since it's not stationary and has an unpredictable path; a stalled vehicle
with a clear path off to the side, brake then swerve since you need to get
around the thing anyway.  A jack-knifed tractor-trailer rig blocking both
lanes, um, I'd stop for that and not swerve off onto the unpaved shoulder.
You also need to consider what vehicles might do.  On a crowded exit ramp, a
car "drops anchor" in front of me.  I can stop, no problem and even keep
both wheels on the pavement :), but the guy behind me, who knows, he's half
asleep, he's trying to light a cigarette and his '82 Impala (impaler) has
crappy brakes.  Might be better to swerve around onto the shoulder rather
than get a Chevy enema.

Everything's highly dependent on factors.  My original point was to try to
point out the mental aspects of riding and the decision-making process
that's part of "good braking technique," which to me seemed sorely lacking
in the original "stoppie brings down wrath of PG law enforcement" post.
Your reply rightly pointed out that there a many factors to consider.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
----- Original Message -----
From: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>

> In a message dated 12/5/2001 4:05:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> pawilson@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > MSF course materials say that
> >  swerving is more effective than braking in obstacle avoidance above 20
mph,
>
> I have to ask, and short of filling this with silly emoticons I fear it
will
> seem harsh. That is not my intention at all I just want to clarify.
>
> Where do they say that?
> I do not remember that blanket statement and do not find it in any of my
> materials (MRC-RSS, ERC, BRC.) Not that I re-read every word again so it
may
> be there. What I do find is
> "Research has shown that speeds above about 18 mph, a motorcycle can
swerve
> to avoid a car-sized obstacle in less distance than it takes to stop. (BRC
> RiderHandbook P.38)"
> _And that is not the same thing at all._


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:04:37 2001
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:04:23 -0500
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 01:17 , daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
wrote:

> if it's illegal to use your brakes to the maxium, isn't that kind of
> backwards?

Folks, this is a prime example of the phenomenon known as "Some People
Just Don't Get It".

Your argument that you were "braking to the maximum" has no merit
whatsoever. First of all, maximum use of your brakes includes braking
with the rear wheel. If your rear wheel is in the air, it is no longer
carrying any of the motorcycle's weight....ergo, it is now contrary to
the laws of physics that you could be using your brakes "to the maximum".

Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with braking "to the maximum", when
the SITUATION CALLS FOR BRAKING "TO THE MAXIMUM". When you're applying
your brakes "to the maximum" in a type of road-condition which is
notorious for having a distinct lack of traction, (build-up of gravel,
oil & coolant from stopped cars, etc.), you are putting the property and
well being of those other bikers in front of you at risk! When you are
pulling a stoppie, you are on the smallest possible amount of contact
patch, and applying "maximum" braking, you have VERY little available
traction left. If you sneeze, or if a bee stings you, or you hit a weird
piece of gravel, or you hit a slick spot, or your arm twitches, you can
lose the bike and nail the people in front of you. You have succesfully
made the chances of smashing into your friends MUCH, MUCH greater than
if you had began braking early, with both the front and rear brakes, in
a smooth and gradual fashion. You have eliminated most of your control
of the motorcycle by eliminating the ability to accelerate and turn. You
have demonstrated to the police that you have a blatant disregard for
your own safety and the safety of others. I would say that this falls
solidly into Maryland's definition of "reckless driving".

So, next time you do something dumb and get caught, keep it to yourself.
Or whisper it to your pillow before you go to bed at night.


Sean Jordan



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:18:10 2001
Subject: tickets & the NMA
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:18:09 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mike T offered -

Anyone looking to beat a ticket AND take a stand should be investing in the
NMA with me each year.  I'm debating getting a life membership - but like
the AMA - that is a big hunk of cash.

   <DJY>  Agreed, I'm a member, and they are quite helpful ...



www.motorists.org

The NMA is a good organization - fighting speed bumps, red light cameras,
speed traps, DRLs (debate is open), and a host of other things.  Most
members are cagers - but many are motorcyclists.  The big plus is that if
you use their speeding ticket fighting kit - and still get a ticket - they
will pay the fine for you.


   <DJY>  To clarify - if you use their legal kit in court & still get convicted, they'll refuld the price of the ticket..  I think there are some limitations to it, but PREPARED defendants do win pretty often...  They also have some sort of new fangled insurance, but it isn't cheap, & I'm not clear on how it works...

Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:18:29 2001
From: FGrefe@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:18:08 EST
Subject: RE: Federal law on GW Parkway?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

<<>>

They all apply.
36 CFR 4.2  (a) Unless specifically addressed by regulations of this chapter,
traffic and the use of vehicles within a park area are governed by state law.
 State law that is now or may later be in effect is adopted and made a part
of the regulations in this part.
(b) Violating a provison of State law is prohibited
(Short version - If there is a Federal law it is used, if not state law is
used.)


<<<< So, what
about your (figuratively) concealed handgun ; perfectly legal by permit
in VA, but highly ILLEGAL by NPS regulation and debatably by statute
(reads something like non lawful purposes)...  so what's enforced???>>>

Your gun is illegal, however, the US Atorneys office has given some
recommendations. [The following is my interpretation.  If you want a legal
opinion contact the US Magistates court in Alexandria @ 703-299-3780 and ask
to speak to the AUSA]  If you are carrying legally according to State law and
are stopped while passing through the park, no enforcement action will be
taken.  If you are stopped while smoking a blunt and watchng the planes at
Gravelling point then you will be charged.


 <<<An
inexpensive way to find out would be to drive up & down the parkway with
a radar detector, and deliberately ride in front of a PP officer.  It's
not a moving violation...  Any volunteers ?>>>

It's not that inexpensive @ $95

Fred Grefe
GTS1000

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:24:09 2001
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
From: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:24:04 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Jon S asks -
Hypothetical: You're cruising down I-66.  The guy in the SUV in front of you
(doing 56 in the 55mph zone), in the fast lane, decides to "use [his] brakes
to the maximum."  You get pasted to his rear bumper.  Did he do anything
wrong?


   <DJY>  Yes, if there was no reason for him to do it, he knowingly caused an accident, and even if Danny was tailgating, and eye witnesses stopped to render assistance - as they should - the braker would be charged with deliberately causing an accident... and likely much more.  Cops take a dim view of vigilante pilots.  Now, if a deer jumped out on 66, & the SUV needed to brake, well then, the shoe's on the other foot...


Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:52:13 2001
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:47:46 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets


>    <DJY>  Yes, if there was no reason for him to do it, he knowingly
> caused an accident, and even if Danny was tailgating, and eye witnesses
> stopped to render assistance - as they should - the braker would be
> charged with deliberately causing an accident... and likely much
> more.  Cops take a dim view of vigilante pilots.  Now, if a deer jumped
> out on 66, & the SUV needed to brake, well then, the shoe's on the other
> foot...

So, what's the SUV driver likely to say to the police?

(a) "Yes, officer, I knowingly caused an accident. I hate motorcycles, and
I wanted to kill that guy. I'll come quietly, plead guilty to vehicular
manslaughter, and pay full restitution to his survivors."

  - or -

(b) "I thought I saw a woodchuck, and was slowing down for safety, when I
was hit from behind by that bad man. He scratched the "Eddie Bauer Edition"
paint on my rear lift gate with his helmet, or was that his skull?"

If you hit someone from behind, you were following too close, pretty much
by definition. If the guy was able to slam on his brakes, and cause you to
hit him (especially if he's in an Expedition and you're on a sportbike),
then it's gonna be on you, almost guaranteed. Do we *all* follow too close
(and speed, for that matter)? Absolutely. It's all figured in to the price
of admission. :-)

My two cents.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:53:34 2001
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:53:31 -0500
Subject: Re: I fell down :(
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 08:20 , PJ Taei wrote:

> My name is PJ T. and I like riding, so one day I went
> skydiving(I like to yell and jump out of an airplane),
> anyways I was going to fast and I fell down. :(

Sorry to hear that you crashed. (If indeed that is what happened....your
post is a bit lacking in the info department.)

What I really want to know is, where does sky diving figure into all of
this?!?!

Am I the only one who saw this post?

Sean Jordan


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 11:59:45 2001
From: <christopher.meier@XXXXXX>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 11:59:00 -0500
Subject: Re: I fell down :(
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.6
 |December 14, 2000) at 12/06/2001 11:59:16 AM


I would say it is likely that you are not the only one to see it ... just
the only one to respond.

--chris





To:   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
cc:
Subject:  Re: I fell down :(

Am I the only one who saw this post?

Sean Jordan


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 12:00:19 2001
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 12:00:06 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!

Just wanted to help Danny out by switching threads.  It is December after
all.  Time for the chain lube debate.

I hope everyone is still riding.  I was the only bike on the road this
AM.  It is absolutely beautiful out.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 12:55:05 2001
From: "Pejman Taei" <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
To: eternity23@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 12:43:49 -0500

Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long rides on
my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where it's
leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?


>From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:04:23 -0500
>
>
>On Thursday, December 6, 2001, at 01:17 , daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
>wrote:
>
>>if it's illegal to use your brakes to the maxium, isn't that kind of
>>backwards?
>
>Folks, this is a prime example of the phenomenon known as "Some People
>Just Don't Get It".
>
>Your argument that you were "braking to the maximum" has no merit
>whatsoever. First of all, maximum use of your brakes includes braking
>with the rear wheel. If your rear wheel is in the air, it is no longer
>carrying any of the motorcycle's weight....ergo, it is now contrary to
>the laws of physics that you could be using your brakes "to the maximum".
>
>Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with braking "to the maximum", when
>the SITUATION CALLS FOR BRAKING "TO THE MAXIMUM". When you're applying
>your brakes "to the maximum" in a type of road-condition which is
>notorious for having a distinct lack of traction, (build-up of gravel,
>oil & coolant from stopped cars, etc.), you are putting the property and
>well being of those other bikers in front of you at risk! When you are
>pulling a stoppie, you are on the smallest possible amount of contact
>patch, and applying "maximum" braking, you have VERY little available
>traction left. If you sneeze, or if a bee stings you, or you hit a weird
>piece of gravel, or you hit a slick spot, or your arm twitches, you can
>lose the bike and nail the people in front of you. You have succesfully
>made the chances of smashing into your friends MUCH, MUCH greater than
>if you had began braking early, with both the front and rear brakes, in
>a smooth and gradual fashion. You have eliminated most of your control
>of the motorcycle by eliminating the ability to accelerate and turn. You
>have demonstrated to the police that you have a blatant disregard for
>your own safety and the safety of others. I would say that this falls
>solidly into Maryland's definition of "reckless driving".
>
>So, next time you do something dumb and get caught, keep it to yourself.
>Or whisper it to your pillow before you go to bed at night.
>
>
>Sean Jordan
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 13:33:48 2001
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: I fell down :(
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500


Sky diving rhymes with riding :)

PJ what really happened? Are you hurt? is your cbr f3 alright?

Ricardo



On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 08:20 , PJ Taei wrote:

> My name is PJ T. and I like riding, so one day I went
> skydiving(I like to yell and jump out of an airplane),
> anyways I was going to fast and I fell down. :(

Sorry to hear that you crashed. (If indeed that is what happened....your 
post is a bit lacking in the info department.)

What I really want to know is, where does sky diving figure into all of 
this?!?!

Am I the only one who saw this post?

Sean Jordan

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 13:42:14 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:39:12 -0500
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On Wednesday 05 December 2001 15:33, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> note we were riding organized (because of the police presence and new
> riders with us), and I was the last bike in about six bikes.. so
> pulling up to the light last, there was already a spot there for me at
> the back, i coasted up, applied brakes hard, and stopped at the back
> of the pack. Back wheel came up about a foot.   Didn't even speed, but
> it was enough momentum to get the wheel in the air.

So... let me get this straight.  At a traffic light with other stopped 
vehicles including motorcycles, you put the bike up on the front wheel and 
did a stoppie. 

Guess what? That's reckless. 

reckless: (adj)  Indifferent to or disregardful of consequences

A) There was no need to do anything but use propper braking and come to a 
safe stop.
B) You endangered the people in front of you. Your motorcycle was at the 
*edge* of control. One bit of oil and you would have gone ::splat:: into the 
vehicles in front of you.  
C) You disregarded that anything could possibly go wrong with pulling a stunt 
like this at a traffic light, even though any number of circumstances could 
have caused it to do so.

> I figure if i hadn't have used my brakes and plowed into the bike
> infront of me, i'd be charged with failure to control speed to avoid
> an accident.. if I use my brakes too well and control my speed to the
> best of the bikes ability, I get a ticket for wreckless go figure!

Much like what you actually did, this would also be reckless, yes.  

You did not control the speed to the best of the bike's ability. That would 
have involved hitting the brakes sooner and keeping both wheels on the 
ground.  You reduced your ability to stop and sacrificed all manueverability 
while approaching other stopped vehicles while disregarding any consequence 
of your actions. 

I don't see how the officer's definition of reckless was nebulous in any way. 

- Roach 

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 13:52:16 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 13:50:21 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Troutman wrote:
> 
> Just wanted to help Danny out by switching threads.  It is December after
> all.  Time for the chain lube debate.

My cam chain stays nicely clean and lubed with engine oil.
81,000 miles so far on the original chain and sprockets.
I wonder how long I should go before I replace the whole
shebang?

Oh wait, that's not the type of chain you were talking
about?  :)

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 14:01:12 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: digest mode replies - trafic ticket
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:04:30 -0800
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regarding better control:  

ON lightweight sportbikes, If your concern is stopping, then the
endoing bike is the best stopping bike. rear brake usage causes
fishtailing, low siding. You will see racers braking down their speed
with their rear wheel coming off the ground. That is STRONG braking
technique. I'll take that "bike A" endo bike every time, as far as
being in contorlled braking instance.


vocubulary:  thanks for that lesson, stoppie it is.


as fas jail being  ridiculous for speeding: you pay for the road, you
use it how you see fit as long as you aren't impeding traffic or
causing risk to others. that's how i see. No harm no foul. Jail should
be used to house violent and habitually dangerous people. No one else.

spelling: I know it's "reckless" so I typed a W by accident. get over
it! don't let a W cause you so much grief LOL

weaving: i equate that with endos.. just cuz you do it, doens't mean
it's unsafe.  wheelies i may concede to..


Troutman: good analysis. Being the strategic chess player that I am
(and i will whip up on a lot of you who think you're so smart - in the
game of chess of course.. games.yahoo.com) I analyzed it the same way.
Then there is the third argument of maximum braking should be legal..
which of course the lower courts don't like to admit when the law
should be changed, and most definitely would result in a conviction.
This isn't a big deal to them, so I am not sure I want to go that
route. On the other hand, when You feel the law is wrong, the right
thing to do is to be right and accept the punishment and keep yourself
rightous. (reference to ghandi)

story to sell the judge: bring a witness, bring in articles
highlighting the by product of lightweight sportbike is the tail end
coming up, I wasn't speeding, I effectively used my brake when it was
time. I was in complete control of my vehicle. I stopped. That's just
what i'm thinking for now.


regarding the danger of stoppies:  Good braking technique isn't only
in the hand,it's also in the eye of scanning the path in front of you.
A good habit to get into! I do not play the what if game. "what if
there was oil in the road" "what if the sky is was green." 'what if my
aunt had balls..she'd be my dickless uncle".. what if doesn't count
in the real world.

ok i digress, i'll play the what if game:

If there was oil in the road...

I would either see it, or I wouldn't:

See it:
stopped sooner, or avoided it

Didn't see it:
the oil would take the blame for any wreck because I didn't see it.
It's pretty acceptable technique to only use the front brake amongst
sport bike riders because the rear can get you in trouble.

Contrary to some belief, endoing isn't that hard, it isn't that
commiting.. to come down, all you have to do is come off the brake
and you're down in a split second. People who do endos know what they
are doing!  I've had my front tire slide forward countless times..
and what happens? Nothing.. maybe I let the brake go and grab it again
like anti lock brakes. I'm used to it. 

It's not like i was right up on the back tire of the guy in front of
me. Come on, that's my friend, that's the last person i would
endanger. i'ts not like I would try an endo on a patch of road I
didn't already qualify as safe. I have to scan my mirrors too, to amke
sure my friends won't plow into me.  The first person to receive
consequences of a bad endo is the rider himself, so most endoing
people, are careful with them, or they don't last long!


braking thread:  I prefer swerving, but why not be able to use
10/10ths  of braking? For those situations when braking is the only
option, the slower speed we can get down to, the less traveling
velocity we take on when we proceed to be flung into human missiles. 

I'd rather slide into an object at 5 mph than 15 mph. it's gonna hurt!
sure in a perfect world we'd scan and avoid all obsticles by slowing
way down before we come up to it.. but then we live in a world where
shit happens. I do subscribe to the school of thought that "you should
be ready for anything, and driving at a pace where you can stop in
time, because you were scanning.. and if you get in an accident,
th'ats YOUR fault, because you could have been driving a little more
cautiously, and to LEARN from your mistakes". But of course there are
times when I have my fun too.


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 14:15:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 14:09:09 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Dale Horstman wrote:

> My cam chain stays nicely clean and lubed with engine oil.
> 81,000 miles so far on the original chain and sprockets.
> I wonder how long I should go before I replace the whole
> shebang?
> 
	Chains are not very reliable and requite constant
maintenance why is why my cams are driven by gears!

Hugh


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 14:25:37 2001
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hcaldwell wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Dale Horstman wrote:
>
> > My cam chain stays nicely clean and lubed with engine oil.
> > 81,000 miles so far on the original chain and sprockets.
> > I wonder how long I should go before I replace the whole
> > shebang?
> >
>         Chains are not very reliable and requite constant
> maintenance why is why my cams are driven by gears!
>
> Hugh

Yes, same here, my cam (singular) is gear drivan, and better yet, my
tappets are hydraulic and never require adjustment!  In theory I'm
riding an *almost* maintenance free bike!  (checks net he drags behind
bike to catch all the parts that fall off.)

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 14:35:56 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:39:15 -0800
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Jon strang: Were you there? NO. You nor the cop, cannot point out whom
I endangered. WHY? cuz i endangered no one, not even myself!  It was a
little endo, I had room to brake harder, I had room to let go. I
wasn't speeding or going too fast. 

Can you tell me how many feet were between me and the bike in front of
me? NO.  because you're talking about what you DON'T KNOW. as far as
the people behind me, I said I pulled up NEXT TO A BIKE... so if I
suddntly stopped, then the driver behind me would hit two bikes
because he wasn't paying attention. That would be no blame of my own.
I purposely came off my gas early, and coasted up to my stoppie.

What did I wine about? the cop being a prick. I wil always make
fun of an asshole cop who shoudl'nt be employed with a firearm.
That reminds me, I should probably write a few letters and file
a complaint about his unprofessionalism and lying. That might give me
some court leverage. A cop really shouldn't approach a civilian in
a traffic offense in that manner... and he pulled me over after we
waited and waited for the light to turn green.


My question for you is..  who do you endanger when you wheelie?


Danny

On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:48:49 -0500, you wrote:

|><snip>
|>> Oh let's throw in the arguement I pay taxes and should be able to use
|>> the streets too, as long as I'm not endagering anyone else. If a squid
|>> kid wants to wheelie on an empty road.. by all means..
|>
|>It wasn't an empty road.  So much for that argument.
|>And you *are* able to use the roads, within the limits of the law, as are
|>the rest of us.  The roads aren't there as your playground or runway for
|>displaying the latest in motorcycle stoppie fashion, they are there for
|>plain, boring, transportation.
|>
|>But you did a stoppie with people in front of you.  The officer, as is his
|>prerogative, determined that it was reckless.  If you think he's wrong, hire
|>an attorney and go to court.  In any case, hire an attorney and go to
|>court...this (alleged) infraction is on its way to DUI territory as far as
|>the penalties you're looking at (counting insurance, etc).
|>
|>> Are we going
|>> to start banning the legal use of public shadowboxing because if
|>> someone were near they could get socked in the nose?
|>
|>No, but your right to shadow box ends when there is a chance you might
|>clobber someone else.  If you were swinging your fists wildly in a metro
|>station at rush hour, you'd deserve to be arrested.  Not for shadow boxing
|>per se....just as you didn't get a ticket for "very cool stoppie" or
|>"bad-boy posing."
|>
|>By definition of public roads, the roads may be used by others.  Besides the
|>obvious 6 mile stretches in Montana, you *always* have a chance of someone
|>pulling into the road, coming around the corner, or otherwise being unseen
|>and suddenly in your path.
|>
|>> who's whining? I'm just debating legal merit and trying to beat the
|>> ticket because I feel that particular thing shouldn't be a crime.
|>
|>On DC Cycles?  WTF?  I don't think the judge you'll be in front of gives a
|>rat's ass what legal precedents you (or any of the rest of us) set in DC
|>Cycles.  And it sure sounded like a whine when I read the initial post.  A
|>2200Hz/105dB whine, kinda like a bearing going bad in a large centrifugal
|>compressor.
|>
|>But I could be wrong...maybe it was a well-thought out opening statement for
|>a debate.
|>
|>> I think all motorcyclists (with capable bikes) should know how to, and
|>> be allowed to, use their braking to the maxiumum, even if it *LOOKS*
|>> like a stunt.  We dont need "feel good" unpractical laws.
|>
|>They are allowed to...on private property and on the racetrack.
|>
|>I doubt the cop would've ticketed you if you were really practicing your
|>braking in an abandoned parking lot.  Especially if you explained what you
|>were doing with the appropriate "yes sir" and "no sir" interspersed as
|>necessary.  But you didn't.  You did a freakin' stoppie in traffic with
|>people in front of you.  You endangered THEM.  Anyone behind you was also
|>endangered...just as if you slammed on the brakes without warning while
|>driving down the road in your car.  That is why you got the ticket.
|>
|>> if it's illegal to use your brakes to the maxium, isn't that kind of
|>> backwards?  That's a much needed skill to avoid accidents. Should you
|>> NOT be allowed to use your brakes in a manner that could save your
|>> life, because the bike shifts weight and the rear wheel comes up?
|>
|>If you have to use your brakes to the maximum while on a public road, you or
|>someone else f#cked up, you are in extremis, and you are making a concerted
|>effort to get into a safe state.  No ticket for the brake usage...
|>
|>Hypothetical: You're cruising down I-66.  The guy in the SUV in front of you
|>(doing 56 in the 55mph zone), in the fast lane, decides to "use [his] brakes
|>to the maximum."  You get pasted to his rear bumper.  Did he do anything
|>wrong?
|>
|>> That's my arguement. Whining.. no. I'm not bitching at all..  did I
|>> bitch about my three hundred dollar speeding ticket last year? no.
|>> Money comes and goes, tickets are just taxes on riding. who cares.
|>> This is about principle though.
|>
|>Not really. You're upset b/c you got gigged.  Hey, I understand.  I spend as
|>much time as anyone else on one wheel or the other and/or going at an insane
|>speed.  But hey, when I get caught, I have to pay.  It sucks, I whine, I
|>whine loud, and I know it.
|>
|>--jon
|>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 14:57:30 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 14:56:45 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
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hcaldwell wrote:
> 
>         Chains are not very reliable and requite constant
> maintenance why is why my cams are driven by gears!

All I want out of life is a shaft driven bike, with
gear-driven cams, and hydraulic valve lifters.

Until then, I ride Connies!  :)

Horkster

-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:00:12 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:03:29 -0800
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|>So, next time you do something dumb and get caught, keep it to yourself. 
|>Or whisper it to your pillow before you go to bed at night.
|>
|>
|>Sean Jordan



 experts say you're wrong on proper braking techniques for
sportbike. Did I endangered others? NO. I'm a very good rider and YOU
can't tell me (merely from my posts none the less) when I do or don't
endanger others. 

I'm a pretty honest guy. I'm not up here lying about
"I didn't mean to do it" or anything. I will surely tell a person
nothing at all before I tell them a lie. Sure I endanger people,
everyone does, and anyone who thinks they've never endangered someone
on the road is misleading themselves. 

The fact of the matter is, the truth is, I know, I didn't endanger
anyone, and my witness can testify to that. I was in complete control.
We're not talking about me being usually squidly here, we are talking
about one specific instance. If we were judged on what we get away
with, i'm sure we'd all be sitting in a fiery hell having this debate.

"The next time I do something dumb or get caught", I will feel free,
and actually especially motivated to post it for YOU, who fail
to realise people have freedom to speak.. and you have the freedom
to ignore it, and delete it from your e-mail box. Since you feel
the need to TELL me what to do, I will retort in a similar manner and
tell you what should do.. Go fuck yourself.


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:04:37 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:03:49 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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"William J. Huson" wrote:

> Yes, same here, my cam (singular) is gear drivan, and better yet, my
> tappets are hydraulic and never require adjustment!  In theory I'm
> riding an *almost* maintenance free bike! 

<Grins>  I wish it were true.  Harleys would be worth the price, then.  :)
Maybe with the new water-head....  or did it go to chain-driven cams?
And the new Goldwing went to shim under bucket valves...  Sigh.
Good thing I really like Connies.  Methinks I'll be riding them for
a while longer.   :)

Horkster

-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:05:52 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "hcaldwell" <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10112061407580.21725-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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Guess you won't be buying a new VFR, Hugh.  The gear-driven cam VFR,
1986-2001  RIP

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
----- Original Message -----
From: "hcaldwell" <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>

> On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Dale Horstman wrote:
>
> > My cam chain stays nicely clean and lubed with engine oil.
> > 81,000 miles so far on the original chain and sprockets.
> > I wonder how long I should go before I replace the whole
> > shebang?
> >
> Chains are not very reliable and requite constant
> maintenance why is why my cams are driven by gears!
>
> Hugh


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:12:06 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
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hypothetic SUV strongly brakes:  I don't tailgate. Hypothesis null and
void.


hugh - regarding was she impressed: well she's seen me do a million of
them, I wasn't doing it to show off for her, i was doing it for me, my
own practice.. she's got a nice soft ass and I got lots of cool points
enough to know! lol

Roach: Just because I braked hard enough for he rear wheel to come off
the ground, doens't mean I wasn't in control. Had I seen oil guess
what, I would have avoided it, used the back brakes. 


All: I'm not perposing I didn't intend to do a stunt. What I'm
proposing is that I didn't endanger others. I have eyesight. The
road was clean and debri free, my front tire traction proves it.
As a matter of fact, I'm capable of doing much higher endos and
even moving stoppies, so to a point I can argue (with you, not in
court), i'm so good with my brakes, I wasn't even using that 10/10ths
of my braking power.. I was just strongly and easily braking within my
strong braking technique and ability. Does it wash here? no? so what.
I'm not here trying to convince you i'm a cool guy.. not here to
convince you to like me. I'm here to share knowledge (give and take)
and try to negate a recieved ticket, just like we all do. 

For those of you with the helpful advice, thank you. For those of
you with the attitude and dislike.. maybe you should look upon trying
to better yourself than to let things get you so uptight. Remember
you are not so perfect, you've done things in your past that was a
technichal, legal no no. 

Thank you for your time! it's been fun. As you can see, I do enjoy
a good discussion, but i guess this thread is done. No new points seem
to be raised. Thank you!


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:20:08 2001
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From: "Pejman Taei" <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
To: ricardopontes@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: I fell down :(        ((IMPORTANT)) Please Read
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:08:32 -0500
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Hi all, I have to apologize for my inmature freind.  I thought I should 
leave this email alone, but too many people got concerned, anyways my friend 
decided to pull a joke and write that stupid email.  Just to get things 
clear everyone I did not go sky diving, nor did I wreck my bike.  For 
everyones information the person that decided to pull this stupid prank 
thought it was funny, I did not take that in a joking matter, and I already 
had a talk with him.  I apologize on the behalf of my inmature friend.  Also 
here is his info, if anyone wants to write him for posting stupid remarks 
and wasting all of our time.  Name: Rahi Golshan, Email: rahig2000@XXXXXX

I hope everyone understands,
Regards,
Pejman Taei
95 Honda CBR 600F3


>From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
>To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: I fell down :(
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500
>
>
>Sky diving rhymes with riding :)
>
>PJ what really happened? Are you hurt? is your cbr f3 alright?
>
>Ricardo
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 08:20 , PJ Taei wrote:
>
> > My name is PJ T. and I like riding, so one day I went
> > skydiving(I like to yell and jump out of an airplane),
> > anyways I was going to fast and I fell down. :(
>
>Sorry to hear that you crashed. (If indeed that is what happened....your
>post is a bit lacking in the info department.)
>
>What I really want to know is, where does sky diving figure into all of
>this?!?!
>
>Am I the only one who saw this post?
>
>Sean Jordan


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:23:51 2001
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From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: I fell down :(        ((IMPORTANT)) Please Read
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Spray him with WD-40!
Cedric Bernescut

STRANGE BUT TRUE 
Iraqi terrorist, Khay Rahnajet, didn't pay enough postage on a letter bomb.
It came back with "return to sender" stamped on it. Forgetting it was the
bomb, he opened it and was blown to bits. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Pejman Taei [mailto:pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:09 PM
To: ricardopontes@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: I fell down :( ((IMPORTANT)) Please Read


Hi all, I have to apologize for my inmature freind.  I thought I should 
leave this email alone, but too many people got concerned, anyways my friend

decided to pull a joke and write that stupid email.  Just to get things 
clear everyone I did not go sky diving, nor did I wreck my bike.  For 
everyones information the person that decided to pull this stupid prank 
thought it was funny, I did not take that in a joking matter, and I already 
had a talk with him.  I apologize on the behalf of my inmature friend.  Also

here is his info, if anyone wants to write him for posting stupid remarks 
and wasting all of our time.  Name: Rahi Golshan, Email: rahig2000@XXXXXX

I hope everyone understands,
Regards,
Pejman Taei
95 Honda CBR 600F3


>From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
>To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: I fell down :(
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500
>
>
>Sky diving rhymes with riding :)
>
>PJ what really happened? Are you hurt? is your cbr f3 alright?
>
>Ricardo
>
>
>
>On Wednesday, December 5, 2001, at 08:20 , PJ Taei wrote:
>
> > My name is PJ T. and I like riding, so one day I went
> > skydiving(I like to yell and jump out of an airplane),
> > anyways I was going to fast and I fell down. :(
>
>Sorry to hear that you crashed. (If indeed that is what happened....your
>post is a bit lacking in the info department.)
>
>What I really want to know is, where does sky diving figure into all of
>this?!?!
>
>Am I the only one who saw this post?
>
>Sean Jordan


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:25:43 2001
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From: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: CAD - Cycle Accessory Discounters -- VFR800 service
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:25:42 -0500 
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I need to get some stuff done with my beloved VFR800 over the winter
months... She is approaching 14,000 on the clock, so i'm not quite at the
16,000 service... Stuff I think needs to be done right away:

1) new brakes (they look like they are getting low)
2) new rear tire (ok, so I can see the first layer of the steel belt, flame
suit on)
3) brake and clutch fluid changed
4) clutch checked for wear (weird problem - bike has gotten stuck in between
gears, and just doesn't feel smooth)
5) possible valve check ???

I have had a really good experience with the guys over at CAD, and I just
wanted to find out if anyone had similar service done ?? Also, if anyone has
any other suggestions on what to check with 14K on the clock... (I know...
the service book has a chart....)

Brian
99 VFR800
81 CB750F

P.s. since I've noticed #2 its been in the garage, so ease up!

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charset=3Dus-ascii">
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I need to get some stuff done with my beloved VFR800 =
over the winter months... She is approaching 14,000 on the clock, so =
i'm not quite at the 16,000 service... Stuff I think needs to be done =
right away:</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>1) new brakes (they look like they are getting =
low)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>2) new rear tire (ok, so I can see the first layer =
of the steel belt, flame suit on)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>3) brake and clutch fluid changed</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>4) clutch checked for wear (weird problem - bike has =
gotten stuck in between gears, and just doesn't feel smooth)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>5) possible valve check ???</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have had a really good experience with the guys =
over at CAD, and I just wanted to find out if anyone had similar =
service done ?? Also, if anyone has any other suggestions on what to =
check with 14K on the clock... (I know... the service book has a =
chart....)</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Brian</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>99 VFR800</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>81 CB750F</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>P.s. since I've noticed #2 its been in the garage, so =
ease up!</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:26:56 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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----- Original Message -----
From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>


All: I'm not perposing I didn't intend to do a stunt. What I'm
proposing is that I didn't endanger others. I have eyesight.

<PAW>Eyesight to check for LEOs before doing riding stunts on the public
highways?  I guess it all boils down to, "if you can't do the time, don't do
the crime."  Personally I won't so much as spit on the sidewalk in PG with
the police department being what it is over there.  It shouldn't be any
surprise the PG cops have a jones for squids given all the antics I see on
301, etc., on any given Friday or Saturday night when the temperature is
above 70.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:34:02 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
In-Reply-To: <F168ygXLsxpTljBOh8s0001e5fb@hotmail.com>
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> From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> 
> Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long rides on 
> my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where it's 
> leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?

Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil? 



-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:39:15 2001
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From: "Pejman Taei" <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
To: brown@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:39:05 -0500
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Well,  it's Synthetic blend oil.  I change the oil regularly, maybe I should 
take some of the covers off and try too see where it's coming from, I think 
it leaks so little, that it takes a long ride for me too actually see it.  
Hope this helps.


>From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>
> > From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long 
>rides on
> > my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where 
>it's
> > leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?
>
>Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil?
>
>
>
>--
>Dan Brown
>brown@XXXXXX
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:41:43 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort @ dave
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:45:03 -0800
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Dave: I agree with you the vast majority of everythign you say.

However on one issue i disagree. you proposed wheelies and endos are
not maximums.. that's funny, because racers do them, and they get
around the track at the maximum riding ability and fastest track
times. I propose they are maxiumums.. but maximums that can be taken
to an extreme and nullified. A small endo, is a maximum braking.
Just like a small wheelie, is maximum accelleration.. it all depends
on how far the weight shifts..

Otherwise, other than that, logic is logic and I cna't disagree
with you too much, on this thread or unrelated. It is indeed  a
pleasure to read your posts.


on the nature of hate: some would suggest hate is something to
overcome, forgiveness is a virtue. Christ, Ghandi.. etc. I sometimes
wonder if it's here as a sort of test to pass to get into more
heavenly places. How better to understand enlightenment than
to have been first, in the dark?

( off topic mode engaged! hehe)


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:46:39 2001
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From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets  --> now oil leak
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:46:34 -0500 
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I have heard of giving the bike a really good wash with a degreaser (watch
out for the chain) then cover the bike in baby powder.  The leak will stick
out like a sore thumb.  Just make sure the leak isn't in front of the tire
when doing stoppies!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Pejman Taei [mailto:pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX]
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:39 PM
To: brown@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets


Well,  it's Synthetic blend oil.  I change the oil regularly, maybe I should

take some of the covers off and try too see where it's coming from, I think 
it leaks so little, that it takes a long ride for me too actually see it.  
Hope this helps.


>From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>
> > From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long 
>rides on
> > my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where 
>it's
> > leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?
>
>Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil?
>
>
>
>--
>Dan Brown
>brown@XXXXXX
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:49:31 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:49:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Kirk Roy <kirk@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: I fell down :(        ((IMPORTANT)) Please Read
In-Reply-To: <79B36BCD74CDD411AE4000508B55FC5F45E2C6@NCEAEXCHANGE>
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Cedric Bernescut wrote:
> STRANGE BUT TRUE 
> Iraqi terrorist, Khay Rahnajet, didn't pay enough postage on a letter bomb.
> It came back with "return to sender" stamped on it. Forgetting it was the
> bomb, he opened it and was blown to bits. 

Urban legend...

Kirk


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 15:54:16 2001
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort@larry@ wheel traction
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 15:57:36 -0800
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References: <sc0e1b12.094@bc-gwgate1.int.bcop.com> <sc0e1b12.094@bc-gwgate1.int.bcop.com> <ofbv0usn9c2ps3c2cs9kj6dg0qngdavk1n@4ax.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20011206101730.00a91330@mail.9netave.com>
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|>>.... I can be going pretty fast, apply my
|>>brake, have my back wheel come off the ground without me ever coming
|>>to a stop.. That's maximum use of braking..  should that be a crime?
|>>I say no!
|>
|>I say yes. That's willfully giving up a major degree of control of your
|>vehicle while moving, and I'd say that's reckless driving, to a "T".

Sometimes it's neccesary... so it's neccesary to know how to do it...
or you could just plow into that object in front of you, and do it
even faster.  It's not giving up as major degree of control of your
bike as you think it is.  I CAN do it, and I'm telling you, all you
have to do is let off the brake a little to put that wheel back down.

Can you do it? Are you speaking from experience? Or are you
speaking from an outside view, telling me, one who can do it,
how much control is involved (and lost)?

Those who can control a bike to it's maximum, Do it, on the race
track. They brake hard, on one wheel before the upcoming curve.
Are they losign control, or maximizing control? 

I say maximizing control. A lot of operating a motorcycle is mental.
know what you want to do, and  excecute. If you're comfortable with
your wheel in the air, and can willingly control it.. how much control
have you lost? You're doing exactly what you intended.

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:23:09 2001
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Subject: RE: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort @ dave
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Daniel had the wisdom & intelligence to admit -


Dave: I agree with you the vast majority of everythign you say.



   <DJY>  Maybe you could have a little talk with my wife then... ;-)  



However on one issue i disagree. you proposed wheelies and endos are
not maximums.. that's funny, because racers do them, and they get
around the track at the maximum riding ability and fastest track
times. I propose they are maxiumums.. but maximums that can be taken
to an extreme and nullified. A small endo, is a maximum braking.
Just like a small wheelie, is maximum accelleration.. it all depends
on how far the weight shifts..


    <DJY>  ALL RIGHTY then.  Now that we've gotten the flames out of the way, and perhaps the Holiday spirit is sinking in... (hey, that's what the voices tell me!)  If you're going to disagree with me on this, I'm going to call you on it and say "prove me wrong".  <No flame here>  

   You assert that ...'racers do them'...fastest track times etc...  Others & myself have Pontificated about wheelies & stoppies and their appropriate places, enough has been said about that.  That said, smooth gets you through the corners fast, ham fisted gets you into the weeds - racers here will echo that.  When you launch a motorcycle, the point at which the front wheel begins to lift off of the pavement is beyond the point of maximum acceleration, because you are taking the energy generated from the rear tire & applying in a non forward & level direction, therefore, some of it is wasted.  Of course, in a wheelie, you're omitting the rolling resistance of the front tire, and hypothetically, if you could ride a 'straight wheelie of only about 1cm of height, you *could* accelerate faster than what I am referring to as 'maximum'.  Maximum acceleration on a motorcycle is the point at which the chassis is using 100% of the delivered power for forward motion.  If as a result of the application of that power the front end comes up, you're not getting maximum acceleration.  There are several factors at play here; weight (distribution), available & usable traction, and throttle application among them.  When your throttle application overwhelms the 1st, but not 2nd of those 3, you wheelie.  When your TA overwhelms the 2nd, you spin.  When you overwhelm both 1 & 2 you spin AND wheelie as you rear tire protests (a typical launch for me at the drag strip, because I'm too ham fisted...).  However, as I said before in a previous post, at times it is impractical to apply maximum acceleration.  Take for example a turn exit - you're leaned over, having altered your traction coefficient, the center of gravity and weight distribution such that it would take you longer to set up to apply maximum acceleration than it would to simply live with a controlled wheelie exiting the turn.  Note - if you apply maximum throttle - not acceleration - to a motorcycle, it will wheelie, even a Super Glide will, and on a modern sport bike, maximu
e application will roll the bike over on top of you.

  A 'small endo' - that should be stoppie - is not maximum braking.  As has been previously discussed, maximum braking involves using the rear brake, with that big, fat gum ball tire back there.  Once the rear tire lifts off the pavement, your stopping effectiveness is diminished.  As before, this has been discussed time & time again, and while there are proponents of 'not using the rear brake because it will get you in trouble' here & everywhere else, write the magazines that get those braking distance numbers and ask how they got them...  Racers are lofting the rear wheel because they are attempting to 'out brake' the other guy, and get a better drive off the corner.  It is a 'comprimise move' in which they give up optimum stopping posture & position, as well as effectiveness by staying on the gas later than 'the other guy'.  Because they've stayed on the gas longer, they gave up some stopping effectiveness in the transition & over applied the front brake & lofted.  You'll also see racers fishtailing - they're stopping faster than the guy lofting the rear wheel because the rear still has *some* traction.  

  It should be noted that you cited racers, and they are executing these moves in a controlled environment, not on the street.  Just because racers do it, doesn't make it right.  
                        


Otherwise, other than that, logic is logic and I cna't disagree
with you too much, on this thread or unrelated. It is indeed  a
pleasure to read your posts.



   <DJY>  Thank you, Danny, I hope you don't read into the above any flameage, there's none intended.  I'd like to hear the racers on the above manifesto...  



on the nature of hate: some would suggest hate is something to
overcome, forgiveness is a virtue. Christ, Ghandi.. etc.


   <DJY>  Weren't both of them killed ?


 I sometimes
wonder if it's here as a sort of test to pass to get into more
heavenly places. How better to understand enlightenment than
to have been first, in the dark?


   <DJY>  My DI told me that the Darkness was my friend, and I know he never lied to me ;-)  



Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:23:42 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:23:36 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort@larry@ wheel traction
In-Reply-To: <4q001ustql11fesvub0fei70h5hf6arope@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> I say maximizing control. A lot of operating a motorcycle is mental.
> know what you want to do, and  excecute. If you're comfortable with
> your wheel in the air, and can willingly control it.. how much control
> have you lost? You're doing exactly what you intended.


You may feel that way, but, unfortunately, me and from what I've read,
others here, are of the opinion that its not likely to hold up in court. 
YMMV.  What you yourself have described sounds unneccessary, reckless and
frankly, dangerous. 

If nothing else, your stoppie, as you describe it, was enough to call
police attention to you, and likely the rest of your group.  That kind of
police attention is likely to cause all of the riders hasle, even if
everything (papers, licenses, registrations, insurance, etc) is in order. 
That you weren't paying enough attention to realize that you were being
observed by the police as you pulled to a stop is indication that you
didn't have enough awareness of your surroundings to modify your behavior
appropriately to fit the situation.

This discussion has convinced me that I hope I never find myself riding on
the street at the same time you are. 


 
-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:29:27 2001
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From: "Pejman Taei" <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
To: GaskeDG@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets --> now oil leak
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:29:20 -0500
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Is putting baby powder on the engine or engine parts safe?


>From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets  --> now oil leak
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:46:34 -0500
>
>I have heard of giving the bike a really good wash with a degreaser (watch
>out for the chain) then cover the bike in baby powder.  The leak will stick
>out like a sore thumb.  Just make sure the leak isn't in front of the tire
>when doing stoppies!!!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pejman Taei [mailto:pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:39 PM
>To: brown@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
>Well,  it's Synthetic blend oil.  I change the oil regularly, maybe I 
>should
>
>take some of the covers off and try too see where it's coming from, I think
>it leaks so little, that it takes a long ride for me too actually see it.
>Hope this helps.
>
>
> >From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
> >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> >Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
> >Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> > >
> > > Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long
> >rides on
> > > my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where
> >it's
> > > leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?
> >
> >Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil?
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Dan Brown
> >brown@XXXXXX
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:38:38 2001
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Subject: RE: RE: oh speaking fo tickets --> now oil leak
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Is putting baby powder on the engine or engine parts safe?


  you're putting BABY POWDER   ON the engine,  not IN the engine (not trying to be smart).  The idea is that leaking oil will coagulate (sp?) into clumps that you can readily see, leading you to the source of the leak.  

HTH

Dave  


>From: Gaske David G DLVA <GaskeDG@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets  --> now oil leak
>Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:46:34 -0500
>
>I have heard of giving the bike a really good wash with a degreaser (watch
>out for the chain) then cover the bike in baby powder.  The leak will stick
>out like a sore thumb.  Just make sure the leak isn't in front of the tire
>when doing stoppies!!!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Pejman Taei [mailto:pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX]
>Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 3:39 PM
>To: brown@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
>Well,  it's Synthetic blend oil.  I change the oil regularly, maybe I 
>should
>
>take some of the covers off and try too see where it's coming from, I think
>it leaks so little, that it takes a long ride for me too actually see it.
>Hope this helps.
>
>
> >From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
> >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> >Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
> >Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 15:33:56 -0500 (EST)
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> > >
> > > Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long
> >rides on
> > > my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where
> >it's
> > > leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?
> >
> >Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil?
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Dan Brown
> >brown@XXXXXX
> >
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:42:47 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:42:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets --> now oil leak
In-Reply-To: <F270stPncm7YbnzTC9J0001ce34@hotmail.com>
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Pejman Taei wrote:

> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:29:20 -0500
> From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> To: GaskeDG@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets --> now oil leak
> 
> Is putting baby powder on the engine or engine parts safe?

Depends -- 

if you're using synthetic oil, you need to use synthetic baby powder. 
Natural oil, natural powder. 


;-) 


Seriously -- as previously suggested, a good cleaning and then some
observation -- baby powder or not -- should show you the leak.  If its just
the left boot, start on that side of the bike.  Check the bottom of the
left side fork tube, check around the oil filter, check where the shifter
goes into the case, etc.  What kind of bike? 



-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:46:38 2001
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 13:46:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Purdy <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: turnerr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
completely anal)

It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)

The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
simply "its", no apostrophe required.

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star



From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>
To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>, 
<daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500
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I need to correct myself:  Its' should be It's !!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy D. Turner, Esq. <turnerr@XXXXXX>
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>;
<dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets


> Its' "Reckless" driving!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:33 PM
> Subject: oh speaking fo tickets


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 16:57:20 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Jeremy Purdy" <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20011206214636.14799.qmail@web13005.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 16:59:40 -0500
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Um, you've got that exactly opposite.  It's is the contraction "it is"
"Its" is the possessive pronoun, third person singular neuter.  Allow me to
decline it:  Mine, yours, his/hers/its, ours, yours, theirs.  No apostrophes
in any of those.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Purdy" <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>



> Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
> completely anal)
>
> It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)
>
> The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
> simply "its", no apostrophe required.
>
> --
> Jeremy Purdy
> '00 Yamaha V-Star
>
>
>
> From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>
> To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <turnerr@XXXXXX>,
> <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>,
>    <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:33:39 -0500
> Organization: CF&O
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE
> V5.00.2314.1300
>
> I need to correct myself:  Its' should be It's !!!!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy D. Turner, Esq. <turnerr@XXXXXX>
> To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>;
> <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
> > Its' "Reckless" driving!!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>
> > To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:33 PM
> > Subject: oh speaking fo tickets
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:03:13 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:03:21 -0800
To: "ROBERSON, Brian" <broberso@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Stephen Harris <harris@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: CAD - Cycle Accessory Discounters -- VFR800 service
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	Disclaimer; CAD is one of our sponsors for Team Charm.  See
http://www.his.com/~harris/teamchm.htm for info on us.


	Blowing sunshine up ass mode on;


	Dave runs a good shop.  I used to be in the business, I know how hard it
is for shops like his, he really does a good job.  In addition to that,
he helps out the local road racing scene and is nice guy personally.  =20


	Blowing sunshine up ass mode off;




	While the VFR800 came out after my time at Honda, I would get the valves
checked unless they have been checked within proper service interval.=20
The older interceptors were notorious for tightening up the intake
valves, while loosening the exhaust valves in normal wear.  I understand
however that the 800 has a updated head design (shim under bucket I
beleive) so this may not be as big of an issue as on the older
interceptors.  I would give consideration to what kind of brake pads you
want to get.  The OEM ones are long wearing, and work fine for street
riding.  If you want to take the bike out on the track for a track day, I
would reconmend a aftermarket set of pads in a racing compound.  I've
been using Dunlopad (not sponsored by them, I pay for them) with good
service on the track.  Two downsides for racing brake pads is that make
the bike dirty (brake pad dust build up) and the wear out quicker than
the OEM ones.  Oddly, they frequently cost less than OEM pads.  This
might not be true for your bike, as not a lot of people race them, but if
the caliper is the same as the F4 you might be in luck. =20


As far as the gear stickin thing, in senior order of magnitude I would
suggest the following to fix; =20


<paraindent><param>left</param>replace oil & filter.  typically when the
oil additive package is shot you'll notice it first in the shifting. =20


lubricate & adjust the shift linkage.  it always amazed me the number of
people that have their shift linkage bent from a tip over or out of
adjustment, or with rusted bearing pivots.


insp the clutch for dragging slave cylinder or leaking seal or air-gunk
in the system.  you may be pulling the lever to the handle bar, but if
the hyd sys has a problem you may not be getting complete=20
disengagement.


insp the clutch plates for wear.  oddly, as a clutch gets worn out, its
ability to completely disengage can be effected.=20


lastly, dissemble the gear box & insp for peened or ramped over shift
dogs in the engagement teeth.  very expensive, you'd rather not go
there.

</paraindent>

Enjoy



At 03:25 PM 12/6/01 -0500, ROBERSON, Brian wrote:=20

>>>>

CAD - Cycle Accessory Discounters -- VFR800 service=20


I need to get some stuff done with my beloved VFR800 over the winter
months... She is approaching 14,000 on the clock, so i'm not quite at the
16,000 service... Stuff I think needs to be done right away:=20


1) new brakes (they look like they are getting low)=20

2) new rear tire (ok, so I can see the first layer of the steel belt,
flame suit on)=20

3) brake and clutch fluid changed=20

4) clutch checked for wear (weird problem - bike has gotten stuck in
between gears, and just doesn't feel smooth)=20

5) possible valve check ???=20


I have had a really good experience with the guys over at CAD, and I just
wanted to find out if anyone had similar service done ?? Also, if anyone
has any other suggestions on what to check with 14K on the clock... (I
know... the service book has a chart....)=20


Brian=20

99 VFR800=20

81 CB750F=20


P.s. since I've noticed #2 its been in the garage, so ease up!=20







Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?

Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:04:27 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 16:39:46 -0500
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Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
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At 05:39 PM 12/6/01, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
>Jon strang: Were you there? NO. You nor the cop, cannot point out whom
>I endangered. WHY? cuz i endangered no one, not even myself!  It was a
>little endo, I had room to brake harder, I had room to let go. I
>wasn't speeding or going too fast.

The point is that there can always be people you don't see.

>What did I wine about? the cop being a prick. I wil always make
>fun of an asshole cop who shoudl'nt be employed with a firearm.
>That reminds me, I should probably write a few letters and file
>a complaint about his unprofessionalism and lying. That might give me
>some court leverage. A cop really shouldn't approach a civilian in
>a traffic offense in that manner... and he pulled me over after we
>waited and waited for the light to turn green.

This is pretty funny. You know, there's at least one PG cop who receives
the dc-cycles list, and it gets permanently archived too. Bet you'll be locker
room humor tomorrow, if not today.("Go get me a stick so I can beat you
to death." -- Bill Cosby)

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:07:29 2001
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To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112061533160.9335-100000@gillian.brauhausdc
 .org>
References: <F168ygXLsxpTljBOh8s0001e5fb@hotmail.com>
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At 03:33 PM 12/6/01, Daniel H. Brown wrote:


> > From: Pejman Taei <pejmancbr600f3@XXXXXX>
> >
> > Hey guys,  I got a quick question.  I have noticed when I ride long 
> rides on
> > my bike, I get a bit of oil on my left foot.  I can't figure out where 
> it's
> > leaking.  I am pretty sure it is engine oil.  Any suggestions?
>
>Is it synthetic or old fashioned dino-oil?

You should never let synthetic oil get on your boots, especially if you're 
just
breaking them in -- it can cause the seams to leak. Ymmv, of course.

-- Larry




From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:12:48 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:08:19 -0500
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From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
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At 04:46 PM 12/6/2001, Jeremy Purdy wrote:
>Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
>completely anal)
>
>It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)
>
>The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
>simply "its", no apostrophe required.

Not to be completely anal about your being completely anal,
but "it's" = "it is" -- and -- "its" is the possessive.
You've got it bass-ackwards.

And "it's" is a contraction, not a conjunction.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:18:47 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:18:28 EST
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
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In a message dated 12/6/2001 10:49:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes:

> I say yes. That's willfully giving up a major degree of control of your
>  vehicle while moving, and I'd say that's reckless driving, to a "T".
>  

That argument followed to its logical extreme would mean anyone squeaking the 
tires when stopping a cage would be guilty of reckless driving. 
I have known people who could literally ride a wheelie for miles, if they 
accidentally (or for that matter deliberately) popped a 1foot wheelie coming 
out of a light they were not endangering either themselves or anyone else.
Reckless driving should mean placing oneself or others in immanent danger, 
codifying it is utterly absurd.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:25:20 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:00:50 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets --> now oil leak
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At 04:29 PM 12/6/01, you wrote:
>Is putting baby powder on the engine or engine parts safe?

Not if you mail those engine parts... or get your "baby powder"
from the Brentwood sorting facility.

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:32:20 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:07:53 -0500
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
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At 05:18 PM 12/6/01, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
>In a message dated 12/6/2001 10:49:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>pltrgyst@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > I say yes. That's willfully giving up a major degree of control of your
> >  vehicle while moving, and I'd say that's reckless driving, to a "T".
> >
>
>That argument followed to its logical extreme would mean anyone squeaking the
>tires when stopping a cage would be guilty of reckless driving.

Squeaking, no. That's taking the analogy to an unreasonable degree. But 
someone
who drives a cage from stop light to stop light and locks 'em up in a 
four-wheel
skid at each stop would probably be cited for reckless, and deserve it.

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:34:38 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:34:35 EST
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
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In a message dated 12/6/2001 11:09:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
eternity23@XXXXXX writes:

> If your rear wheel is in the air, it is no longer 
>  carrying any of the motorcycle's weight....ergo, it is now contrary to 
>  the laws of physics that you could be using your brakes "to the maximum".
>  

UM... Sorry but no.
Traction is a function of pressure/area. If you halve the area (One wheel 
instead of two) you double the pressure, all other factors being the same. 
(And no they never quite are, but in this case close enough.)


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:35:23 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:10:57 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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At 12:00 PM 12/6/01, Troutman wrote:
>I hope everyone is still riding.  I was the only bike on the road this 
>AM.  It is absolutely beautiful out.

Ah, yes. Gorgeous going in this morning, and great coming home this 
afternoon. Why, the Night
Train rider at work even rode in today, so you know it was *at least* 75....

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:36:49 2001
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In a message dated 12/6/2001 11:55:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
eternity23@XXXXXX writes:

> What I really want to know is, where does sky diving figure into all of 
>  this?!?!

You ever high side?

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 17:43:22 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 17:43:15 EST
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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In a message dated 12/6/2001 3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
the.horkster@XXXXXX writes:

> All I want out of life is a shaft driven bike, with
>  gear-driven cams, and hydraulic valve lifters.
>  

How about a shaft drive two cycle?
  Ho Ho #:-) >

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 18:31:59 2001
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: "'Rob Winters'" <rob@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: oh speaking fo tickets
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 18:30:28 -0500
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>From the Anal-philes -

At 04:46 PM 12/6/2001, Jeremy Purdy wrote:
>Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
>completely anal)
>
>It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)
>
>The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
>simply "its", no apostrophe required.

Not to be completely anal about your being completely anal,
but "it's" = "it is" -- and -- "its" is the possessive.
You've got it bass-ackwards.

And "it's" is a contraction, not a conjunction.


Please, take the grammar fued off list, there are plenty of other
smouldering embers on the list today, no need for more


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 19:46:46 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 19:49:05 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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CHAIN LUBE?!?
who the hell would use such backwards technology as a chain?!??
and dont even bore me with that 'shaftie' claptrap....
everyone knows BELT drive is the most efficient transfer of power...
it's truely 'bleeding edge' technology...

thats why my harley has one. :-)


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 20:43:02 2001
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daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

>
> My question for you is..  who do you endanger when you wheelie?
>
> Danny
>

Yourself, and anyone within striking distance when you shithouse.  Not to mention
those behind you who now have the problem of dodging a crunching bike and a
splatting rider.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 22:27:53 2001
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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 22:02:31 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Blue Moon Cycles
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I was down in Atlanta with my family over Thanksgiving, and my brother took 
me to a BMW dealer named Blue Moon Cycles in Norcross. Man, what a great 
place to visit! If you're ever down that way, stop by.

They've got a display of over 100 antique motorcycles, not just BMWs -- 
Urals, DKWs, Velocettes, a Hercules with a Wankel engine, bikes with 
sidecars, matched pairs in as-new shape -- it is flat amazing. And it turns 
out all but about five or six are for sale -- they bill themselves as the 
largest dealer of antique BMWs in the US. They also make BMW/sidecar 
combinations for sale, and race one themselves.

Most of them are on their Web site, (www.bluemooncycle.com) -- take a look.

And they had just cleared out space for another 40 cycles due in from 
Germany this week...

Thanks -- Larry (no connection with the place, just awed)

'01 Aprilia Mille SL Falco
'84 Interceptor 500 (small emergency backup bike)
'01 Suzuki GS500 (dependable small emergency backup bike to the small 
emergency backup bike)


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec  6 23:00:56 2001
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From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: headlights
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 23:00:48 -0500
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Is it illegal to run blue headlights? The h4 bulbs that have a blue tint to
them. Also, anyone know where to buy them?


Anyone up for a ride saturday or sunday to west virginia??


Ricardo


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 06:13:49 2001
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On Thursday 06 December 2001 17:04, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> regarding better control:
>
> ON lightweight sportbikes, If your concern is stopping, then the
> endoing bike is the best stopping bike. rear brake usage causes
> fishtailing, low siding. You will see racers braking down their speed
> with their rear wheel coming off the ground. That is STRONG braking
> technique. I'll take that "bike A" endo bike every time, as far as
> being in contorlled braking instance.

And since you're a national level roadracer, I'm sure this is from your 
personal experience, yes?

Well, I am, and here's a little clue-by-four for ya... when our rear wheel 
comes off the ground, it's because we over-cooked the turn entrance and are 
juuuuust about to crash if we squeeze one tiny bit more on that brake lever. 
We also have to get the rear wheel back down before trying to turn. This is 
done on the ragged edge of control. It is not "STRONG braking technique". It 
usually happens when making a banzai pass on someone and screws up your turn 
entry... but it's a passing maneuver, which often is at odds with perfect 
cornering technique.

Which, of course, has absolutly nothing to do with responsibly riding a 
motorcycle in traffic on public streets.

- Roach 

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 07:56:32 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Clarification to squid bashing.
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 07:53:28 -0500
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Actually... I'd like to clarify a couple things.

There's two arguments going on here, really... the fastest way to stop a 
bike, and what's "reckless".

Daniel is right to *some* degree. On a *modern sportbike*, which has a short 
wheelbase, sticky tires, and a lot of front brakes, it is very easy to haul 
the thing down to a stop and have the rear wheel come off the ground *at the 
end*. This is because the energy has to have somewhere to go, and the sticky 
front tire isn't going to give way. The energy takes the path of least 
resistance and rotates the bike's mass around the front axle. Tah-dah... you 
just did a stoppie. You also just saw the end result of bringing a motorcycle 
to a complete stop *as fast as possible*. Absolutly, no doubt about it, end 
of story.  

However...
A) This assumes the surface is perfect, and the front tire will not lose 
traction under heavy load.
B) If the environment changes (i.e. other car/bike/animal does something), 
you're hosed. You can't manuever, or change direction.
C) Any error on your part will result in you winding up on your ass, or not 
stopping where you thought you were going to.

Public roads are not perfect surfaces. Not only are they often uneven and 
offer varying levels of grip, they have foreign substances such as oil and 
antifreeze on them.  Other cars, bikes, and animals often do silly things - 
like move. And people often make mistakes.

"Reckless" means you don't take into account the above statements while 
operating your vehicle. Attempting to stop a bike "as fast as possible" is 
reckless, under any non-emergency circumstance. You sacrifice your ability to 
do anything else but stop in a straight line in a short distance, and the 
ramifications of that going badly endanger not only yourself, but others.

What a bike is capable of doing and what it should be doing on a public road 
in traffic, are two VERY different things. 

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 09:42:40 2001
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Roach parted the clouds -
Actually... I'd like to clarify a couple things.
..
Daniel is right to *some* degree. On a *modern sportbike... it is very easy to haul the thing down to a stop and have the rear wheel come off the ground *at the end*. ...you just did a stoppie. You also just saw the end result of bringing a motorcycle to a complete stop *as fast as possible*. Absolutly, no doubt about it, end of story.  

   <DJY>  and, if the rear wheel lofts early, or mid stop, you are not stopping as fast as possible...


However...
A) This assumes the surface is perfect, and the front tire will not lose 
traction under heavy load.
B) If the environment changes (i.e. other car/bike/animal does something), 
you're hosed. You can't manuever, or change direction.
C) Any error on your part will result in you winding up on your ass, or not 
stopping where you thought you were going to.

Public roads are not perfect surfaces. Not only are they often uneven and 
offer varying levels of grip, they have foreign substances such as oil and 
antifreeze on them.  Other cars, bikes, and animals often do silly things - 
like move. And people often make mistakes.

"Reckless" means you don't take into account the above statements while 
operating your vehicle. Attempting to stop a bike "as fast as possible" is 
reckless, under any non-emergency circumstance. You sacrifice your ability to do anything else but stop in a straight line in a short distance, and the 
ramifications of that going badly endanger not only yourself, but others.


   <DJY> I'd say that 10 / 10 braking needs to be practiced, and *IF* there's a stretch where you can safely practice it where the only person that could get hurt is yourself, before trying maximum braking on the street, in a situation where you need it, it should be practiced.  When I was in Southern MD, there were numerous stretches of rt 6 that presented areas where you could practice hard braking (I'm not sure I'd say it was maximum, but it was good practice & I learned to stop quicker).  I even went as far as to at least let some of the local deputies know I wasn't nuts & that I was going to be practicing my braking (from a legal speed etc...).    


What a bike is capable of doing and what it should be doing on a public road 
in traffic, are two VERY different things. 


   <DJY> yeah, but let's face it, that argument taken to it's extreme (as I saw a previous thread allude to) begs the question - why do we then have bikes that produce more than 25 horsepower ?  That's all that's needed for what we *should* be doing on the street...  No, we shouldn't be holding non sanctioned racing events on a public street(s) but traffic cops *have* gotten a little overzealous in enforcement.  To paraphrase the Dems, 'Daniel's offense(s) do not rise to the level of reckless driving'.  Innatentive or careless - maybe.  Written warning ? definitely possible.  

I hope the grammar police leave us alone today.  I got a misspelling ticket yesterday ! ;-) 


Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 10:15:56 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 10:14:45 -0500
Subject: RE: Clarification to squid bashing.
To: sdave@XXXXXX
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And therein lies what I find so disconcerting ...

There are a myriad of laws on the books that can deal with this, such as
"Failure to maintain control of a vehicle" (I'm paraphrasing) that could
suffice for this action.  I firmly believe that there is a rush on the part
of cops to hand out reckless charges, and it, quite frankly, seems like
overkill to me.

Should Danny have gotten stopped and a stiff talking to?  You bet, and
maybe a citation for "failure to properly control a vehicle" (or something
equivalent).  But did he REALLY need a reckless to trim his youthful
exuberation?  I don't think so.

At some point you have to follow no the no harm, no foul principle of life
and move on.  Of course we can no longer do that (like we did in my youth)
as it would impact the gov't coffers.  It sucks, bit it's (did I get the
contraction, right?) true.

As always, YMMV,
--Chris



   <DJY> yeah, but let's face it, that argument taken to it's extreme (as I
saw a previous thread allude to) begs the question - why do we then have
bikes that produce more than 25 horsepower ?  That's all that's needed for
what we *should* be doing on the street...  No, we shouldn't be holding non
sanctioned racing events on a public street(s) but traffic cops *have*
gotten a little overzealous in enforcement.  To paraphrase the Dems,
'Daniel's offense(s) do not rise to the level of reckless driving'.
Innatentive or careless - maybe.  Written warning ? definitely possible.

I hope the grammar police leave us alone today.  I got a misspelling ticket
yesterday ! ;-)


Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 10:25:36 2001
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At 10:14 AM 12/7/01, christopher.meier@XXXXXX wrote:

>And therein lies what I find so disconcerting ...
>
>There are a myriad of laws on the books that can deal with this, such as
>"Failure to maintain control of a vehicle" (I'm paraphrasing) that could
>suffice for this action.  I firmly believe that there is a rush on the part
>of cops to hand out reckless charges, and it, quite frankly, seems like
>overkill to me.
>
>Should Danny have gotten stopped and a stiff talking to?  You bet, and
>maybe a citation for "failure to properly control a vehicle" (or something
>equivalent).  But did he REALLY need a reckless to trim his youthful
>exuberation?  I don't think so.
>
>At some point you have to follow no the no harm, no foul principle of life
>and move on.  Of course we can no longer do that (like we did in my youth)
>as it would impact the gov't coffers.  It sucks, bit it's (did I get the
>contraction, right?) true.
>
>As always, YMMV,

Well put. As you said, ymmv, but I'd bet that your position is one most,
if not all, dc-cycles folks would probably agree on.

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 11:02:43 2001
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Chris 'Oscar' Meier opined -


And therein lies what I find so disconcerting ...

There are a myriad of laws on the books that can deal with this,...


   <DJY> Too many busy bodies trying to make themselves look like they're important to the voters...  and doing it way to often.  They should be in session once every 5 years at most, do a budget & other pending issues.  Hack their pay down to prevailing wages and stop the nonsense.  Sunset some of the more silly issues and let's move on... <yeah, I'm dreaming>  


Should Danny have gotten stopped and a stiff talking to?  ...


   <DJY>  He's gotten it here, hasn't he?  


At some point you have to follow no the no harm, no foul principle of life
and move on.  Of course we can no longer do that (like we did in my youth)
as it would impact the gov't coffers.  It sucks, bit it's (did I get the
contraction, right?) true.


   <DJY>  your contraction was correct BUT (not BIT) your sentence didn't read too well...  ;-)  What does a small element of data have to do with sucking ??? ;-) 


Yours in grammar & spelling Purgatory,
Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 11:08:49 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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To: "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Clarification to squid bashing.
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On Friday 07 December 2001 09:42, sdave@XXXXXX wrote:

>    <DJY> yeah, but let's face it, that argument taken to it's extreme (as I
> saw a previous thread allude to) begs the question - why do we then have
> bikes that produce more than 25 horsepower ?  That's all that's needed for
> what we *should* be doing on the street...  No, we shouldn't be holding non
> sanctioned racing events on a public street(s) but traffic cops *have*
> gotten a little overzealous in enforcement.  To paraphrase the Dems,
> 'Daniel's offense(s) do not rise to the level of reckless driving'.
> nnatentive or careless - maybe.  Written warning ? definitely possible.

Because somewhere, there's a group of people making laws that believe 
that MOST people have the intelligence, common sense, and good judgement NOT 
to do the things you see these squids doing on a regular basis.  

Perhaps if these morons weren't making the 11 o'clock news and getting 
national attention (i.e. 160mph in chicago), we wouldn't see cops being so 
over-eager to hand out tickets to bikers, especially on sport bikes. Trust 
me, I just LOVED getting a ticket for "general reckless driving" last year 
for doing nothing more than speeding ~10mph over on a rural road (went to 
court, ticket was dropped, but I shouldn't have gotten it in the first place 
- I deserved a speeding ticket)

Without being at the scene, I can't tell you if the cop was warranted to 
write it as "reckless" instead of some less severe charge. However, I just 
scanned through the VA points/penalties... and there really isn't one. It 
seems they really LIKE reckless in VA, and now have *15* catagories for 
"reckless" offenses. The only other one you could try and give him would be a 
3-point "improper driving" ticket. You know, the kind people pretty much 
ignore after paying the fine.

::shrug:: I don't have a good answer there.  Maybe reckless is rather 
stiff, but it would seem it's the only way to get people's attention these 
days.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 11:20:08 2001
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Subject: RE: RE: Clarification to squid bashing.
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 |December 14, 2000) at 12/07/2001 11:17:58 AM


Oscar?  Whew, elementary school flashback!  (the commercials were popular
then).   As for grammar ... I never much cared, the purpose of
communication is to well, communicate.  It seems like it come through. :-)

Good points all ...

--chris





"sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>@pop.radix.net" <sdave on
12/07/2001 11:03:26 AM





To:   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
cc:
Subject:  RE: RE: Clarification to squid bashing.


Chris 'Oscar' Meier opined -


And therein lies what I find so disconcerting ...

There are a myriad of laws on the books that can deal with this,...


   <DJY> Too many busy bodies trying to make themselves look like they're
important to the voters...  and doing it way to often.  They should be in
session once every 5 years at most, do a budget & other pending issues.
Hack their pay down to prevailing wages and stop the nonsense.  Sunset some
of the more silly issues and let's move on... <yeah, I'm dreaming>


Should Danny have gotten stopped and a stiff talking to?  ...


   <DJY>  He's gotten it here, hasn't he?


At some point you have to follow no the no harm, no foul principle of life
and move on.  Of course we can no longer do that (like we did in my youth)
as it would impact the gov't coffers.  It sucks, bit it's (did I get the
contraction, right?) true.


   <DJY>  your contraction was correct BUT (not BIT) your sentence didn't
read too well...  ;-)  What does a small element of data have to do with
sucking ??? ;-)


Yours in grammar & spelling Purgatory,
Dave

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 11:21:13 2001
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In a message dated 12/7/01 11:12:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
roach@XXXXXX writes:

> Without being at the scene, I can't tell you if the cop was warranted to 
>  write it as "reckless" instead of some less severe charge. However, I just 
>  scanned through the VA points/penalties... and there really isn't one. It 
>  seems they really LIKE reckless in VA, and now have *15* catagories for 
>  "reckless" offenses. The only other one you could try and give him would 
be 
> a 3-point "improper driving" ticket. You know, the kind people pretty much 
>  ignore after paying the fine.

Hmmm....What's the definition of the two offenses?  Reckless seems a bit 
harsh.  The 'Improper driving' might fit the bill.

Keener

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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:26:16 -0800 (PST)
From: John Germuga <smoothpook@XXXXXX>
Subject: And the jury says
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Danny,

I am sure there is nothing I or anyone else is going
to say to convince you that the cop was justified in
citing your actions as reckless, regardless of his
character or fitness for duty. But you may want to
note that if this list is ananlagous to a jury of your
peers (perhaps even biased in your favor, since the
list is comprised of fellow riders), you may want to
avoid choosing this option of adjudication in court.

John

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 14:35:24 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:33:38 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
To: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> 
> CHAIN LUBE?!?
> who the hell would use such backwards technology as a chain?!??

It's even worse, Bruce.  They use that chain thang to
go FORWARDS, too!  :)

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 14:43:13 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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To: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>,
   Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
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On Friday 07 December 2001 14:33, Dale Horstman wrote:
> Bruce Brownlee wrote:
> > CHAIN LUBE?!?
> > who the hell would use such backwards technology as a chain?!??
>
> It's even worse, Bruce.  They use that chain thang to
> go FORWARDS, too!  :)

You guys just have sprocket envy. Admit it!

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 14:46:51 2001
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Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 11:46:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Purdy <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
To: rob@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I stand corrected on both counts.

I guess there is a reason my guidance counselor told
me not to be an English major.

Either that or maybe I shouldn't drink so much at work
:)

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star

X-Sender: rob@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 17:08:19 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters 
Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets

At 04:46 PM 12/6/2001, Jeremy Purdy wrote:
>Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
>completely anal)
>
>It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)
>
>The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
>simply "its", no apostrophe required.

Not to be completely anal about your being completely
anal,
but "it's" = "it is" -- and -- "its" is the
possessive.
You've got it bass-ackwards.

And "it's" is a contraction, not a conjunction.

  /// Rob




__________________________________________________
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 14:56:45 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 14:52:44 -0500
To: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>,
   "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Bob Meyer <bob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: headlights
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At 11:00 PM 12/6/2001 -0500, Ricardo Pontes wrote:


>Is it illegal to run blue headlights? The h4 bulbs that have a blue tint to
>them. Also, anyone know where to buy them?


A more basic question:  why would you want to?  They put out LESS light 
than regular H4s, and anything that hurts nighttime vision seems 
ill-advised, to me.


ITW,
Bob Meyer
'92 ST1100 (Red STag), STOC #1157
=====================================================
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather,
because it's safer to pick on rich women than biker gangs.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 15:05:44 2001
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Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:04:20 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: WD-40 Corrupted my o-rings!
To: roach@XXXXXX
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Brian Roach wrote:
> 
> You guys just have sprocket envy. Admit it!
> 

Nope, I'm a registered chainophobe.  :)

-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 16:16:16 2001
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Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets  - endo effort
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 15:56:47 -0500
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It doens't take serious effort. all it takes is grabbing the brakes...

<CZ>Try using the rear brakes as well


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec  7 20:04:01 2001
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From: "Howard J. Koontz" <HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: oh speaking fo tickets
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Warning: the following is an off-topic rant/flame. It will also make you
smarter. Engage the following at your own risk.

Jeremy Purdy waxed:

<snip>

Not to be anal or anything (I say while being
completely anal)

It's is a posessive (as in "The dog wagged it's tail)

<pause snip>

OK. I agree, to form the possessive of a singular noun, add an apostrophe
and an "s".  But, "It," being a special kind of noun, called a pro-noun,
doesn't count in this scenario. See below...

<re-join our snip, already in progress>

The conjunction for "it is" is correctly written as
simply "its", no apostrophe required.

</snip>

<slowly shakes head> "Nah, hay-L no!" (<--- My best Martin Lawrence
impersonation.) "It's" (with an apostrophe) is *always* a contraction and
therefore *always* means "it is" or "it has". "Its" (without the apostrophe)
is not only a pronoun but also the possessive of "it". So correctly stated,
an example would be "I didn't wag the dog's tail. It wagged its own tail."
Alrighty then...

My work here for today is done. Now I'm gonna go practice my stoppies on my
ELECTRA GLIDE on my way to a bike shop to ask them what the hell "Chain
Lube" is. Maybe they'll adjust my valves while I wait.

Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard (<--- It's been good to its
owner)
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project (Fo' sale, or not... now I'm not
sure)



From dc-cycles-request Sat Dec  8 11:39:38 2001
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Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 11:39:14 -0500
From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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For all the poser wannabees! %^)

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: *** Exclusive Limited Eddition Leather ***
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 15:13:43 -0500
From: Competition Accessories
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX



Limited Leather!!!.

[Rossi] [Rossi]


NEW! Valentino Rossi
<http://www.compacc.com/on-line-store/genericproduct.jhtml?id=prod330008>
and Kenny Roberts Jr.
<http://www.compacc.com/on-line-store/genericproduct.jhtml?id=prod330009>
Leather Race Replica Jackets

New, direct from Europe. These limited edition replica jackets are an
outstanding value and available exclusively through Competition
Accessories. We have a limited amount that will be imported and are
available for customers on a pre-order basis only. It's simple, place
your order now for your favorite jacket, and we will ship the jackets
during the last 2 weeks of February, to make sure you have it in time
for Bike Week in Daytona, Florida. (March, 2002)

Miline Race Replica Jackets include the following features:
M-7 Top-notch 1st grade leather
M-7 Top-of-line detachable mk11 absorbent foam protection in shoulders and
elbows
M-7 Removable inner lining
M-7 Inside pocket with cotton lining
M-7 These jackets also feature an 8" zipper allowing for pants attachment.

***Coming Soon, matching gloves and pants, available online***
Sizes follow true to U.S. sizing. Available in 40, 42, 44, 46, 48, and
50. There are no discounts or coupons valid with the purchase of these
jackets, Orders will have a 25% deposit charge when you place your order
and we will charge the remainder when the order ships in February.
Deposits are non-refundable for cancels and for returns with no exchange.

Other sizes will be available for exchange if your ordered size doesn't
fit, for a small exchange fee of only $5, plus applicable shipping charges.


If you wish to be removed from our list, click here
<http://198.30.181.71/remove/EmailForm.cfm?ID=35203160>




From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 09:38:06 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:37:49 -0500
Subject: FW: For sale-MC clothing
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: CB 750 Group <cb-750@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   Brian Ward <kevrep96@XXXXXX>
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----------
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
Subject: For sale-MC clothing

Just in time for Christmas. Motoport motorcycle clothing. Full descriptions,
colors etc can be viewed at www.motoport.com
Jackets:
Canyon   red   Med   $195
Canyon   blue  Med   $195
Canyon   red   Large $195
Riva     black Large $195
Riva     black Med   $195

Pants:
Voyager AX     xxl   $132
Voyager AX     xl    $132
Voyager AX     med   $132
Voyager AX     sm    $132
Voyager AX     large $132

Raingear (one piece)
Samoa   red    xs    $75
Samoa   red    xxl   $75

Raingear (two piece)
Penta Jacket
      yellow   l     $75
      yellow   xxxl  $75
      red      med   $75
      yellow   xl    $75
      red      xl    $75
      red      xl    $75
      yellow    s    $75

Penta pants
               s     $35
               xl    $35
               xxxl  $35
               xl    $35
               l     $35
               med   $35
All prices include shipping in the lower 48










From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 09:50:07 2001
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Subject: Cops get speeding tickets from cameras 
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Cops get speeding tickets from cameras 

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20011129-13345237.htm



From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 09:50:38 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:16 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
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Spam on dc-cycles now?  At least it is relevant spam, but unappreciated 
just the same.

At 09:37 AM 12/10/01, you wrote:
>From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
>To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
>Subject: For sale-MC clothing

___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 12:44:18 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:44:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)

i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
by most.




--- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Spam on dc-cycles now?  At least it is relevant spam, but
> unappreciated 
> just the same.
> 
> At 09:37 AM 12/10/01, you wrote:
> >From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
> >Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
> >To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
> >Subject: For sale-MC clothing



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 12:48:02 2001
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From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
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At 12:44 PM 12/10/01, Tom Gimer wrote:
>mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)
>
>i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
>just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
>the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
>by most.

I don't know Bob - and it looked like spam.

I'll take the title today if you and Anker are through with it ;-)


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 12:56:06 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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References: <5.1.0.14.2.20011210094930.025ebec0@mail.troutman.org> <5.1.0.14.2.20011210124606.0260be80@mail.troutman.org>
Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:59:34 -0500
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Bob has been on the list for a long time.  Anyway, it may be a little more
useful information than last week's squid slugfest or the insoluble
chain/belt/shaft discussion.

SPAM is in the eye of the beholder.  Bob was just passing it along for our
benefit and not going to profit.  I don't have a problem with being notified
for special sale prices at various vendors.  Now if someone posted every
three days with a laundry list of stuff they are trying to unload, I would
have a problem with that.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>

> At 12:44 PM 12/10/01, Tom Gimer wrote:
> >mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)
> >
> >i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
> >just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
> >the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
> >by most.
>
> I don't know Bob - and it looked like spam.
>
> I'll take the title today if you and Anker are through with it ;-)
>
>
> ___________________________________________
>
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org
>
> If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
> your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 13:23:55 2001
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Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:23:44 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bob McKeithen and VFR
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hey Bob - apparently you have been on the list a long time and are a 
trusted MSF instructor.  Sorry for the spam call.  Guess I am oversensitive 
to it.

To Paul and others who are also on the VFR list - I dropped the VFR list 
last week.  Signal to noise ratio is way too high.  If anything amazing 
happens I need to know about, lemme know.  Like the 2003 is going to look 
like a '97.  Cool.

___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 10 23:33:06 2001
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Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 12/10/01
From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Message-ID: <B83AF6A0.1A61%bmckeithen@citlink.net>
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on 12/10/01 7:00 PM, The dc-cycles list administrator at
dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> __  /-----\  __   'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list
> (__\/ _____ \/__)  about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area.
> =(  \___/  )=
> \  ___  /      An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at:
> | / _ \ |         http://www.dc-cycles.org/
> \ || || /
> \|| ||/       Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to:
> \| |/           dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX
> |_|
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:37:49 -0500
> Subject: FW: For sale-MC clothing
> From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
> To: CB 750 Group <cb-750@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
> Brian Ward <kevrep96@XXXXXX>
> 
> 
> ----------
> From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
> To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
> Subject: For sale-MC clothing
> 
> Just in time for Christmas. Motoport motorcycle clothing. Full descriptions,
> colors etc can be viewed at www.motoport.com
> Jackets:
> Canyon   red   Med   $195
> Canyon   blue  Med   $195
> Canyon   red   Large $195
> Riva     black Large $195
> Riva     black Med   $195
> 
> Pants:
> Voyager AX     xxl   $132
> Voyager AX     xl    $132
> Voyager AX     med   $132
> Voyager AX     sm    $132
> Voyager AX     large $132
> 
> Raingear (one piece)
> Samoa   red    xs    $75
> Samoa   red    xxl   $75
> 
> Raingear (two piece)
> Penta Jacket
> yellow   l     $75
> yellow   xxxl  $75
> red      med   $75
> yellow   xl    $75
> red      xl    $75
> red      xl    $75
> yellow    s    $75
> 
> Penta pants
> s     $35
> xl    $35
> xxxl  $35
> xl    $35
> l     $35
> med   $35
> All prices include shipping in the lower 48
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:49:25 -0500
> From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
> Reply-To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
> X-Sender: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
> To: "List-dc cycles"  <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Cops get speeding tickets from cameras
> 
> 
> Cops get speeding tickets from cameras
> 
> http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20011129-13345237.htm
> 
> 
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> X-Sender: mtroutma@XXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:50:16 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
> 
> Spam on dc-cycles now?  At least it is relevant spam, but unappreciated
> just the same.
> 
> At 09:37 AM 12/10/01, you wrote:
>> From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
>> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
>> To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
>> Subject: For sale-MC clothing
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
> Mike Troutman
> http://www.troutman.org
> 
> If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
> your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.
> 
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:44:16 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
> To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> 
> mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)
> 
> i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
> just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
> the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
> by most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Troutman <mike@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> Spam on dc-cycles now?  At least it is relevant spam, but
>> unappreciated
>> just the same.
>> 
>> At 09:37 AM 12/10/01, you wrote:
>>> From: Bob McKeithen <bmckeithen@XXXXXX>
>>> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 09:31:24 -0500
>>> To: MGCL <MGCL@XXXXXX>
>>> Subject: For sale-MC clothing
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> X-Sender: mtroutma@XXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:47:49 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
> 
> At 12:44 PM 12/10/01, Tom Gimer wrote:
>> mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)
>> 
>> i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
>> just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
>> the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
>> by most.
> 
> I don't know Bob - and it looked like spam.
> 
> I'll take the title today if you and Anker are through with it ;-)
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
> Mike Troutman
> http://www.troutman.org
> 
> If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
> your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.
> 
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: FW: For sale-MC clothing
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:59:34 -0500
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600
> 
> Bob has been on the list for a long time.  Anyway, it may be a little more
> useful information than last week's squid slugfest or the insoluble
> chain/belt/shaft discussion.
> 
> SPAM is in the eye of the beholder.  Bob was just passing it along for our
> benefit and not going to profit.  I don't have a problem with being notified
> for special sale prices at various vendors.  Now if someone posted every
> three days with a laundry list of stuff they are trying to unload, I would
> have a problem with that.
> 
> Paul in DC
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>
> 
>> At 12:44 PM 12/10/01, Tom Gimer wrote:
>>> mike, here to play list-asshole today?  ;)
>>> 
>>> i don't think this is spam....rather, it looks like bob was
>>> just alerting us to a sale he was notified of.  kinda like
>>> the "free shipping days from maw" posts that are welcomed
>>> by most.
>> 
>> I don't know Bob - and it looked like spam.
>> 
>> I'll take the title today if you and Anker are through with it ;-)
>> 
>> 
>> ___________________________________________
>> 
>> Mike Troutman
>> http://www.troutman.org
>> 
>> If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
>> your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> _                  _                  _                  _
> .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
> (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)
> 
> X-Sender: mtroutma@XXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:23:44 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Bob McKeithen and VFR
> 
> Hey Bob - apparently you have been on the list a long time and are a
> trusted MSF instructor.  Sorry for the spam call.  Guess I am oversensitive
> to it.
> 
> To Paul and others who are also on the VFR list - I dropped the VFR list
> last week.  Signal to noise ratio is way too high.  If anything amazing
> happens I need to know about, lemme know.  Like the 2003 is going to look
> like a '97.  Cool.
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
> Mike Troutman
> http://www.troutman.org
> 
> If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
> your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.
> 
> 
No span intended and sorry if I offended any one. E mail me off list if you
want any of this stuff. It is a bargain.

Bob


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 11 09:46:43 2001
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From: LakeSueE@XXXXXX
Subject: Terminator
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Arnold Schwarzenegger was hospitalized with several broken ribs after a weekend motorcycle accident, his publicist said Monday.
The 54-year-old star of the "Terminator" movies was resting at St. John's Health Center in Santa Monica after the Sunday afternoon crash, publicist Jill Eisenstadt said.

Schwarzenegger, who is negotiating to appear in a third "Terminator" film, was "in good spirits, feeling sore, but otherwise fine," she said.

"Don't worry," the actor said in a statement. "This won't affect my skiing with my family at Sun Valley (Idaho) this Christmas."

Details of the motorcycle accident, which also occurred in Santa Monica, were not immediately available.

Schwarzenegger underwent elective surgery to replace a heart valve in April 1997.

His new movie "Collateral Damage," which was postponed after the Sept. 11 attacks because it's about terrorism, now is scheduled to open in February.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 11 11:35:35 2001
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
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Subject: SV650S
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 11:34:38 -0500
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I was wondering if anyone had a Suzuki SV650S and if so what they thought
about it.  
I have a '94 Yamaha Seca II now and am considering the SV.  I prefer the S
model.  
Is it comfy enough to take on trips up to 4 hours?  
Anybody have one for sale?
Thanks.

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 11 12:16:12 2001
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:15:52 -0500
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Subject: Jet powered beer cooler
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
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http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

This is cool. I want one.


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
'90 Yamaha FZR400



From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 11 21:54:01 2001
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From: "Howard J. Koontz" <HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: OT - F/S
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 21:54:28 -0500
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Anyone interested or know anyone who may be interested? Is RASH Jr. really
dead, or does it just need a parts loaner vehicle?

> > Subject: truck for sale...
> >
> >             TO ALL EMPLOYEES    ( post and translate as needed )
> >
> >    Chapel Valley offers for sale... VAM unit # 81   white
> > extended cab S-10,
> >    1991 Chevrolet with about 325,000 miles.
> >    to be sold AS IS, with understanding it will be removed
> > from CV property, after sale.
> >
> >    Call Preston, with questions. 410-442-2310 or 301-924-5400 ext. 141
> >    Currently, the truck can be seen in the VA yard. Just off Rt. 28 near
Dulles airport.
> >
> >    First $700 takes it.


Howard Koontz
'01 H-D FLHT


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 00:12:43 2001
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From: "Thomas Zell" <zellto@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dc-cycles digest for 12/11/01
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 00:19:14 -0500
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Now that is definitely one of THE coolest things I've ever seen!

Tom Zell
'86 VFR750

          _                  _                  _                  _ 
     .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.          .-.-.=\-.
     (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)          (_)=='(_)

Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:15:52 -0500
Subject: Jet powered beer cooler
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

This is cool. I want one.


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
'90 Yamaha FZR400



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BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Zell;Thomas;W.
FN:Thomas W. Zell
TEL;HOME;VOICE:(703) 931-9143
TEL;CELL;VOICE:(703) 856-6833
ADR;HOME:;;1220 South Columbus Street;Arlington;VA;22204;United States =
of America
LABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:1220 South Columbus =
Street=3D0D=3D0AArlington, VA 22204=3D0D=3D0AUnited States of Am=3D
erica
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:zellto@XXXXXX
REV:20011114T032905Z
END:VCARD

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C182A2.A27DC9B0--


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 07:53:41 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 04:53:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Subject: Amber rear running lights
To: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Are they legal in VA?  Should I care?

Thanks,

Rich
'00 Triumph Sprint ST

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 08:30:27 2001
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Don't know, but VA passed an auxilary tail/brake light law which
retroactively made my pair of add-on reds legal.  I'd been running the
extras for two years without the benifit of legality and never was
stopped.

Bill

Scratch wrote:

> Are they legal in VA?  Should I care?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rich
> '00 Triumph Sprint ST
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 08:41:01 2001
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From: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Amber rear running lights
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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I think running lights are a good idea.  You can never
have too much light or torque. :)

This is the kind of stuff I'm looking at:
http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/rearlights.html

The Priority Lites make running lites out of yer turn
signals.  Seems cool.  Just wondering if I need to
change to red bulbs/clear lenses or something like
that.

Thanks,

Rich

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 08:56:00 2001
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	 Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:42:55 -0500
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: nekkid Honda 919
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:54:13 -0500
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Honda (Hornet) 919 test:

http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=1225&mode=nested&order=0&thold=
1

IMO, a smaller, lighter, lower torque Honda "Bandit" with an attempt at a
Duc-tail.

In other words, a nice bike...

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 09:54:40 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 06:54:38 -0800 (PST)
From: John Germuga <smoothpook@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ultimate beer cooler
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:15:52 -0500
Subject: Jet powered beer cooler
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/

This is cool. I want one.


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
'90 Yamaha FZR400



What this enterprising author neglected to mention
(had he been American, maybe he would have realized
this) was that there is far greater utility in this
invention. At a tailgate party (perhaps these aren't
commonplace at rugby matches), you can not only keep
your beer cold, but cook your hot dogs too!

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 11:30:53 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:30:36 -0500
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From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Amber rear running lights
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don't know if they're legal, i don't think so. should you care: no

FYI: for those people with VFRs out there, the stock turn signal bulbs (at 
least on the 800s) are dual filament. They are actually the same bulbs as 
the brakelights so with a little work you can use the "low" setting for 
running and the "high" setting for turning.

i haven't done it, but some listers on the VFR list have. it looks pretty 
cool, does help visibility, etc, but i don't know how to wire it.

Ride Safe,
Justin

1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 11:36:57 2001
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From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@dc-cycles. org (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: insurance question
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 11:36:51 -0500
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Hypothetical question.  Suppose one were filling out the required insurance
company paperwork after one's bike was stolen.  Are the portions regarding
the bike's condition (ie.bodywork, engine,etc.) used to lower the Blue Book
value of the vehicle and lower the settlement value?  
Cedric
1996 CBR600F3
Annandale, VA 
P.S. I had to forward this link for the gun fans:
 http://www.fire-balls.com/video/tac_trigger4.mpg





From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 11:54:40 2001
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: insurance question
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>> Are the portions regarding
>>the bike's condition (ie.bodywork, engine,etc.) used to lower the Blue
Book
>>value of the vehicle and lower the settlement value?


I don't know if they use that kind of info to affect the settlement, but
they do use some of it to try and identify the bike.  The cops should have
asked you all the same stuff too. Stuff like a sticker or a dent or a
luggage mount, etc, can make the bike stand out from others of the same
make/model.  The insurance will ask you because the bike may turn up later,
somewhere else, with the VIN altered.  Plus the cops get a copy of the
insurance claim (at least they do here in DC) so they have more details on
what to look for.

As far as how these details affect the settlement, well, I'd ask my
insurance agent... or better yet, get a friend who's got the same company
and ask them to ask!

-patti

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 12:25:21 2001
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At 11:54 AM 12/12/2001, Lantech (DCOP) wrote:
>As far as how these details affect the settlement, well, I'd ask my
>insurance agent... or better yet, get a friend who's got the same company
>and ask them to ask!

If recovered, your bike will be positively identified by the VIN.

I'm sure that almost all cars and motorcycles are in "very good" to 
"excellent" condition when stolen, and any dings, nicks, scratches, or 
dents tend to be caused by those careless thieves. Funny how that works.

Of course, the thief is unlikely to do a tacky repair job, or keep the bike 
long enough for scratched or dinged areas to have any corrosion on them. 8-)

  /// Rob

P.S. ... and don't forget all that stuff you had in the saddlebag,... yeah, 
that's the ticket! Diamond rings, bearer bonds,...


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 12:31:25 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:31:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Well, either my bike cover was stolen, or after 4 years of use, it finally wore
out and blew off.  My guess is the former.  When I came out of my new apartment
yesterday morning (still raining) the bike was sitting there, naked and
shivering.  Maybe some homeless person wanted to use it for some shelter.

I had been planning on getting a new cover soon anyway, as this one was
starting to get some tears in it (but not big enough to let the cover just blow
off the bike, IMHO) and was getting in pretty ratty shape.  I had been using
the OSI full cover (Goldwing size), so I could leave my Givi bags on the bike. 


Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?

Louis


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 12:48:19 2001
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Subject: Re: insurance question
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It's a good habit to document everything.  Gather receipts for recently
replaced parts, new tires, aftermarket upgrades, major service.  That shows
that the bike was in good condition and well cared for.  You're looking for
factors, like low mileage, excellent condition, upgrades and accessories
that will affect the
"book price."  Takes lots of pictures of your bike during its life, not just
for the sake of vanity, but also for documentation purposes later on should
disaster strike.  I keep a file on money spent on bike parts.  I don't care
if it's 12 bucks for new spark plugs, it goes in the file.  You never know
when you might have to go toe to toe with an insurance company over your
bike's value.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cedric Bernescut" <bernescut@XXXXXX>



> Hypothetical question.  Suppose one were filling out the required
insurance
> company paperwork after one's bike was stolen.  Are the portions regarding
> the bike's condition (ie.bodywork, engine,etc.) used to lower the Blue
Book
> value of the vehicle and lower the settlement value?
> Cedric






From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 13:17:52 2001
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From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
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I went to Fisher hardware in Springfield and got some of that plastic coated
wire (about 1/4" in diameter) and using one of the metal crimp blanks they
make for this purpose, I made a loop in each end of the 4 foot cable.  The
loops were still small enough to pass through the grommets at the bottom of
my OSI cover.  One end was left looped to the grommet on one side of the
cover and the other end ran under the bike and attached to the Kryptonite
disc lock which I kept on the wheel.  This way when I undid the wheel lock,
the cover came off in the same step.  I admit that when I replaced the OSI
after years of use, I was too lazy to repeat the installation (I was getting
around to it:)) which is why my bike got stolen but I still have my cover.
Cedric


Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?

Louis


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 13:38:19 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>,
   DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:34:58 -0500
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On Wednesday 12 December 2001 12:31, Louis F. Caplan wrote:

> Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
> suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
> minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?
>

Had the same thing happen when I lived in an Apt. They make covers that have 
grommets at the bottom of each side that you can then lock together under the 
bike. I can't remember the brand I had off-hand, sorry. Only adds an 
additional 20 seconds or so to unlock a small padlock under the bike.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 14:10:54 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 14:09:13 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
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Methinks my Dowco cover has lock grommets, but I never lock it.  I usually use it
at the beach to cut down on salt scum, but rarely at home.  Can't afford the
minutes to take it off.  Sometimes I leave the bike unlocked and aimmed for the
open highway.  I have a quick disconnect on the battery tender, and an
ether/nitrious booster shot rigged to the starter button for those really FAST
getaways.  I only do this during *ahem* certian times of the month.   Those of you
who share your lives with a volitile female will understand.

WILLIAM JOHN!  GET IN HERE THIS MINUTE!

uh-oh... Hi-Yo Harley!   Varooom - scree-eee-ee-ee....

Bill

Louis F. Caplan wrote:

> Well, either my bike cover was stolen, or after 4 years of use, it finally wore
> out and blew off.  My guess is the former.  When I came out of my new apartment
> yesterday morning (still raining) the bike was sitting there, naked and
> shivering.  Maybe some homeless person wanted to use it for some shelter.
>
> I had been planning on getting a new cover soon anyway, as this one was
> starting to get some tears in it (but not big enough to let the cover just blow
> off the bike, IMHO) and was getting in pretty ratty shape.  I had been using
> the OSI full cover (Goldwing size), so I could leave my Givi bags on the bike.
>
> Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
> suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
> minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?
>
> Louis
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 21:14:20 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:12:20 -0500
From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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A friend of mine in CA found this on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599152581

I think the lister has made some sort of mistake.  A 2001 CBR929RR with 
the current bid at $865 and nothing indicating there's a reserve (i.e., 
no "reserve not met")???  Either the guy has gone mental or he forgot a 
zero!  If he's for real, maybe I should sell my FZR and buy this! %^)

Chuck



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 21:24:52 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:24:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: This can't be right
To: dc-cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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9 days left on the auction. It won't stay that price
for long.

Keith
--- Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> A friend of mine in CA found this on eBay:
> 
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599152581
> 
> I think the lister has made some sort of mistake.  A
> 2001 CBR929RR with 
> the current bid at $865 and nothing indicating
> there's a reserve (i.e., 
> no "reserve not met")???  Either the guy has gone
> mental or he forgot a 
> zero!  If he's for real, maybe I should sell my FZR
> and buy this! %^)
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 21:36:04 2001
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From: "David Thompson" <dthomps1@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <200112130000.fBD00B128056@dirty.meretrix.com>
Subject: Re: Amber rear running lights-VFR
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:40:54 -0500
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I've done the conversion on my '94 VFR.  It's pretty simple.
Order a pair of the front signal lamp holders - they have the required
3-wire connector
Use a DVM to identify the the front running light connection on the harness
and splice a wire to it (both sides)
Run the wires from the front to the back
Find a couple of 3 pin connectors (I clipped them from a wrecked bike at a a
salvage yard)
Replace the rear two pin connectors on the rear harness with the three pin
connectors and splice the wire from the front running lights to the same pin
on the rear connector
Install the new signal lamp holders in the rear signal lamp housings & plug
them in to the modified harness.

The running lights will go off when the signal lights operate to maintain
good visual contrast.  It's simpler to connect the rear running lights to
the rear tail light or the license plate lamp, but those options don't turn
off when the signals are operated, so the surrounding traffic isn't as
likely to notice the signal.

David "Routemeister" Thompson


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 21:41:21 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:41:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: This can't be right
To: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Its already @ 2G's.

Glenn

--- Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 9 days left on the auction. It won't stay that price
> for long.
> 
> Keith
> --- Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > A friend of mine in CA found this on eBay:
> > 
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599152581
> > 
> > I think the lister has made some sort of mistake. 
> A
> > 2001 CBR929RR with 
> > the current bid at $865 and nothing indicating
> > there's a reserve (i.e., 
> > no "reserve not met")???  Either the guy has gone
> > mental or he forgot a 
> > zero!  If he's for real, maybe I should sell my
> FZR
> > and buy this! %^)
> > 
> > Chuck
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for
> all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 22:40:17 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:40:18 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: This can't be right
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And if it does, rest assured he's got a friend or a ghost account to pump 
the bid up. Since eBay's vehicle sales fee is now a flat $25 on top of the 
flat $25 for listing, $50 is the most he can lose.

-- Larry

At 09:24 PM 12/12/01, Keith Lamond wrote:
>9 days left on the auction. It won't stay that price
>for long.
>
>Keith
>--- Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
>wrote:
> > A friend of mine in CA found this on eBay:
> >
> >
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599152581
> >
> > I think the lister has made some sort of mistake.  A
> > 2001 CBR929RR with
> > the current bid at $865 and nothing indicating
> > there's a reserve (i.e.,
> > no "reserve not met")???  Either the guy has gone
> > mental or he forgot a
> > zero!  If he's for real, maybe I should sell my FZR
> > and buy this! %^)
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 12 22:43:22 2001
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:50:06 -0500
From: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Chuck and Karen Pena wrote:
> 
> A friend of mine in CA found this on eBay:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=599152581
> 
> I think the lister has made some sort of mistake.  A 2001 CBR929RR with
> the current bid at $865 and nothing indicating there's a reserve (i.e.,
> no "reserve not met")???  Either the guy has gone mental or he forgot a
> zero!  If he's for real, maybe I should sell my FZR and buy this! %^)
> 
> Chuck

Basically, I don't even bother looking at items with more than a day or
two to go.  If it's something I *really* want, I don't show any interest
until the last two or three minutes. It seems like there are a lot of
auctions where the price goes out of sight in the last twenty minutes. 
I enter a proxy bid very near the end and resist the temptation to up my
bid.  On several occasions I would have ended up paying near retail on
an item if I'd allowed the heat of the moment to take over. Based on
things that I've sold, eBay is a seller's market most of the time. 

Paul in DC


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 07:02:35 2001
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From: "Lisa Goddard" <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Carlyle Grand Cafe
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 06:41:21 -0500
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OK, who saw my husband at the restaurant in Arlington on Tuesday night?


Lisa
'95 VFR


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 08:57:57 2001
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Was he the one with the HOT looking fluffy-haired, big titties blonde?

TEASING!  Just teasing...

Bill

Lisa Goddard wrote:

> OK, who saw my husband at the restaurant in Arlington on Tuesday night?
>
> Lisa
> '95 VFR


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 09:25:54 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:20:43 -0500
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From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: This can't be right
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At 10:50 PM 12/12/2001, Paul Wilson wrote:
>I enter a proxy bid very near the end and resist the temptation to up my
>bid.  On several occasions I would have ended up paying near retail on
>an item if I'd allowed the heat of the moment to take over. Based on
>things that I've sold, eBay is a seller's market most of the time.

Auction up to $4,050 now, with 9 days still left.

I use eSnipe.com. You set up the max amount you want to pay for something, 
and eSnipe's bots bid for you a few seconds before the end of the auction. 
Either you win or you don't, and you don't have to be online when the 
auction closes. Very effective and very ... civilized.

There's a fee, but you'll save more than the fee by not driving up the 
price, especially on smaller items that only you and one or two others are 
interested in. On an item like a motorcycle,... well,... at least it will 
keep you from getting "the fever"! No charge if you don't win.

[Standard disclaimer. I'm not affiliated with eSnipe, I just use them from 
time to time.]

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 11:25:37 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:25:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Eric M. Winslow" <ericwinslow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <01121213345800.24234@firewall.dcc-racing.org>
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I've had two covers stolen from me. Both were locked using the provided
grommets. Conclusion: locking the cover via the grommets is a waste of
time. 

The method that I've been using successfully for the last 2 and a half
years is to put 2 small holes in the cover so that I can run a cable
lock through it that goes above the front wheel and behind the forks.
Basically the cable is wrapped around the fork tubes. That way, if
anybody is going to steal the cover they really have to shred it and
make it useless. Slicing around the grommets, on the other hand, still
leaves the cover functional.

I started using this method after I saw a bike parked on T St. that had
its cover secured in this way.

Eric
'94 KLR650

--- Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 December 2001 12:31, Louis F. Caplan wrote:
> 
> > Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the
> bike.  Any
> > suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't
> add 5
> > minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?
> >
> 
> Had the same thing happen when I lived in an Apt. They make covers
> that have 
> grommets at the bottom of each side that you can then lock together
> under the 
> bike. I can't remember the brand I had off-hand, sorry. Only adds an 
> additional 20 seconds or so to unlock a small padlock under the bike.
> 
> - Roach


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 11:39:33 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 08:39:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Shai Peer <shai_peer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Motorcycle for men and women
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-260788751-1008261568=:34745"

--0-260788751-1008261568=:34745
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Found some funny pics. to share with all of you!

Shai.
ZX-6R

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
--0-260788751-1008261568=:34745
Content-Type: image/pjpeg; name="macho.jpg"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: macho.jpg
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="macho.jpg"

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--0-260788751-1008261568=:34745--

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 11:55:10 2001
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	 Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:42:02 -0500
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Motorcycle for men and women
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:53:22 -0500
Message-ID: <GLEHKHOMDBCCBIDJEMJJAEFMDGAA.jmstrang@erols.com>
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X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Dec 2001 16:42:02.0953 (UTC) FILETIME=[179DD390:01C183F5]

whew.  That broke my PC-meter.  The needle's stuck on "Misogyny".

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shai Peer [mailto:shai_peer@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:39 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Motorcycle for men and women
> 
> 
> Found some funny pics. to share with all of you!
> 
> Shai.
> ZX-6R
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 12:05:45 2001
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From: "Perry Coleman" <perrycoleman@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Motorcycle for men and women
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:54:20 -0500
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I really wish that the DC Cycles mailing list software would reject messages 
with attachments...

Perry



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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 12:54:12 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:53:39 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
To: <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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In a message dated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:33:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> writes:

> Well, either my bike cover was stolen, or after 4 years of use, it finally wore
> out and blew off.  My guess is the former.  When I came out of my new apartment
> yesterday morning (still raining) the bike was sitting there, naked and
> shivering.  Maybe some homeless person wanted to use it for some shelter.
> 
> I had been planning on getting a new cover soon anyway, as this one was
> starting to get some tears in it (but not big enough to let the cover just blow
> off the bike, IMHO) and was getting in pretty ratty shape.  I had been using
> the OSI full cover (Goldwing size), so I could leave my Givi bags on the bike. 
> 
> 
> Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
> suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
> minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?
> 
> Louis
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 12:56:43 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 12:56:03 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
To: <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
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Sorry bout that.  Too fast on the send button.

Anyways, yes, here's a suggestion.  Try a long padlock through the supplied padlock grommet holes that should be located at the bottom of the cover.  Pull the two holes together under the bike and lock the lock.  I found that the locks with a 3 or 4 inch shaft work the best and give you a little leeway.

Scooter

In a message dated Wed, 12 Dec 2001 12:33:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> writes:

> Well, either my bike cover was stolen, or after 4 years of use, it finally wore
> out and blew off.  My guess is the former.  When I came out of my new apartment
> yesterday morning (still raining) the bike was sitting there, naked and
> shivering.  Maybe some homeless person wanted to use it for some shelter.
> 
> I had been planning on getting a new cover soon anyway, as this one was
> starting to get some tears in it (but not big enough to let the cover just blow
> off the bike, IMHO) and was getting in pretty ratty shape.  I had been using
> the OSI full cover (Goldwing size), so I could leave my Givi bags on the bike. 
> 
> 
> Now I guess I may have to somehow lock the cover as well as the bike.  Any
> suggestions for ways of securing a cover on a motorcycle that won't add 5
> minutes to putting on/taking off the cover each time?
> 
> Louis
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 13:07:57 2001
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Message-ID: <01b901c18401$9d458fe0$bb82fea9@palladio1>
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20011213162536.88802.qmail@web13507.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Bike cover stolen, dang it all!
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:11:33 -0500
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Here's what works for me, a nasty old faded cover that no one would want and
an alarm with a shock sensor.  Try to swipe the cover and the bike alarm
goes off.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Winslow" <ericwinslow@XXXXXX>

> I've had two covers stolen from me. Both were locked using the provided
> grommets. Conclusion: locking the cover via the grommets is a waste of
> time.
>
> The method that I've been using successfully for the last 2 and a half
> years is to put 2 small holes in the cover so that I can run a cable
> lock through it that goes above the front wheel ...


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 15:59:49 2001
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'SabMag'" <sabmag@XXXXXX>, "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'DrGridlock'" <drgridlock@XXXXXX>
Subject: 'Tis the season to be  . . . wary
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:02:05 -0500
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You survivors know this but for the novices: 
The holiday season brings out one new cage driver hazard and exacerbates the
danger from two others. 
Be alert for them, relax and concentrate on surviving through the rest of
the month.
Remember, a "fender bender" puts a cage in the shop and a motor-bi-cyclist
in the hospital. 

1. Timorous titmouse: 
The driver who only ventures out this time of year to purchase joy and
happiness for the family. 
This driver is frightened of the traffic but diligently putts into the
foray.  Just about anything will scare this driver and cause an unexpected
reaction.  Typical signs are a erratically driven cage and a head bobbing
back and forth to trying to see all of the frightening traffic.  A
motorcycle is another frightening apparition that might trip the titmouse
into becoming the Stressed Shrike. 
Pass 'em quickly or stay back and consider it entertainment not a delay. 

2. Stressed Shrike:
This driver is focused on: gotta buy, gotta get to the next store/function,
gotta pick up the kids, gotta deliver the kids --  and all of this fweeking
traffic is ON MY ROAD AND IN MY WAY.  They're focused on themselves, their
problems, their goals, and you -- you little two wheeled bump in the road --
are an impediment and an aggravation.  
Typical signs are tailgating, switching lanes without signaling (legal in
MD), occupying two lanes (Well it is their road).   
I recommend staying back and see how little lead the antics actually garner
the idjut in heavy traffic. 

3. Diminished Duck 
The driver who has had a little liquid cheer.  Ethanol has different effects
on different people.  Some are happy, some with inhibitions lowered become
mean.  All have diminished ability.  They (we) are not always obvious and
may drive in a perfectly competent manner -- until a crisis happens -- then
the brake is applied a little slow, a little erratically, the turn is a
little sloppy . . .  
Don't be that driver -- especially if you're on two wheels.  

Yer Uncle Carl in Bethesda (Hoping to see you all well in 02) 

Commuting into your nation's capital since 1981 through sun, rain, over
snow, and around road ragers.
'85 VF700S (Rocin-ahorito); '83 VF700F (666) '97 Aerostich Roadcrafter (Fred
the Red)
Don't need no loud pipes; I got big honking tooters:
http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg
http://www.crosswinds.net/~denbrook/Motorcycles/Events/mmc-2-17-01/Carls_Sab
re.jpg


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 16:19:26 2001
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Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:18:00 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 'Tis the season to be  . . . wary
To: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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"Custer, Carl" wrote:

> 2. Stressed Shrike:
> This driver is focused on: gotta buy, gotta get to the next store/function,
> gotta pick up the kids, gotta deliver the kids --  and all of this fweeking
> traffic is ON MY ROAD AND IN MY WAY.  

I had a run-in (almost literally) with one of these this morning.
Middle Eastern dude in a mommyvan (maybe he was a terrorist, huh?)
decided he wanted my lane without signalling.  I tooted the horn and
jumped on the brakes.  He saw me, heard me, and kept on coming anyway.

Guess I shouldn't complain, it's been the first semi-close call I've
had in several weeks.  Gotta guard against complacency ALWAYS!

Horkster, still a mommyvan hater
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 16:29:07 2001
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: 'Tis the season to be  . . . wary
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:27:18 -0500
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Mommyvans are shaft drive.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200
chain drive

> Horkster, still a mommyvan hater
> -- 
> MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)
> 
> Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 
> 
> AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
>  
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 21:23:40 2001
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It was pretty cool to see a picture of local fast guy and fellow lister 
Steve Keener in this month's edition of Roadracing World & Motorcycle 
Technology. Steve won the GT Lights Expert race at the CCS Race of 
Champions in Daytona back in October.  I think he had a couple of 
championships this season as well.

Thats pretty good for a guy who weighs almost as much as his bike.  :-)

Dave


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 13 23:24:28 2001
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Jon Strang wrote:
> 
> Mommyvans are shaft drive.
> 
But they can't countersteer or wheelie worth a damn...no thanks.  :)

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT Rider #322 - Completed.  All 99 done!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 09:01:29 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:01:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
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Forgive me if you've seen this in other forums:

http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm


I think this is unfortunate. 



-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 09:19:42 2001
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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112140859520.11021-100000@gillian.brauhausdc.org>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:19:08 -0500
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Great!  Now I have to pay $500 for a helmet instead of $350.   I will have
to find another manufacturer.  I will send Arai my feelings!



----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:01 AM
Subject: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.


>
>
> Forgive me if you've seen this in other forums:
>
> http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm
>
>
> I think this is unfortunate.
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 09:40:07 2001
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:39:34 -0500
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from Arai's statement:

>In Arai's view, the best way for this to happen is when the specific helmet
a rider is buying is >fit to that rider's head by someone experienced in
sizing and fitting helmets


Uh, I'm not sure where those guys do their shopping, but the last few times
I went in person to buy a helmet I picked them out, tried them on, wiggled
them around, etc., all on my own.  I don't think I have ever had any help
from "someone experienced in sizing and fitting helmets."  Except my uncle,
that is, and he took me to the store.  I'm sure Arai wasn't paying him to
make sure I got the proper helmet!

Looks to me like Arai is copying their business plan from Micro$oft...

-patti

Patti the Lantech
'95 Virago 750

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 09:53:06 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:53:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
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On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Lantech (DCOP) wrote:

> from Arai's statement:
> 
> >In Arai's view, the best way for this to happen is when the specific helmet
> a rider is buying is >fit to that rider's head by someone experienced in
> sizing and fitting helmets
> 
> Uh, I'm not sure where those guys do their shopping, but the last few times
> I went in person to buy a helmet I picked them out, tried them on, wiggled

There were serveral contact addresses -- this would probably be an
opportune time to politely express our feelings regarding both this new
policy and a particular one of Arai's local dealers. 

I intend to send them a note, but am going to take some time to compose my
response. Anyone have suggestions of other points to make? 


-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles \(E-mail\)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <2344588A203AD311B7950090276269862CF711@CWDEXCH0>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
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No kidding.  I don't think I have EVER had a salesman help me fit a helmet.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.


> from Arai's statement:
>
> >In Arai's view, the best way for this to happen is when the specific
helmet
> a rider is buying is >fit to that rider's head by someone experienced in
> sizing and fitting helmets
>
>
> Uh, I'm not sure where those guys do their shopping, but the last few
times
> I went in person to buy a helmet I picked them out, tried them on, wiggled
> them around, etc., all on my own.  I don't think I have ever had any help
> from "someone experienced in sizing and fitting helmets."  Except my
uncle,
> that is, and he took me to the store.  I'm sure Arai wasn't paying him to
> make sure I got the proper helmet!
>
> Looks to me like Arai is copying their business plan from Micro$oft...
>
> -patti
>
> Patti the Lantech
> '95 Virago 750


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 10:15:32 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <2344588A203AD311B7950090276269862CF711@CWDEXCH0>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:09:17 -0500
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Arai has had rather hard-nosed ideas about marketing lately.  It sees itself
as a "premium" brand and jealously guards its image and brand name.  It sent
corporate bulldogs after a BMW club web site for *linking* to the Arai web
site without permission.  Personally I think their helmets are grossly
overpriced and generally over-rated, but that may be due to the fact they
don't fit my head shape very well.

Come on, it's not about proper fit and customer service, it's about
protecting dealer mark-ups from high volume mail order retailers.  I suspect
Arai has getting heat from dealers because customers would come in, try on a
bunch of over-priced lids and then mail-order them to avoid the hefty dealer
mark-up.  If I feel that I'm truly getting superlative service from a local
dealer, I will give them my business, even if it means paying more than mail
order.  If they're jerks, offer lousy service, make the customer feel
invisible, and leave the impression that their main purpose in life is
merely to
separate me from the money, they deserve to have their business undermined
by mail order
retailers.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>

> from Arai's statement:
>
> >In Arai's view, the best way for this to happen is when the specific
helmet
> a rider is buying is >fit to that rider's head by someone experienced in
> sizing and fitting helmets
>
>
> Uh, I'm not sure where those guys do their shopping, but the last few
times
> I went in person to buy a helmet I picked them out, tried them on, wiggled
> them around, etc., all on my own.  I don't think I have ever had any help
> from "someone experienced in sizing and fitting helmets."  Except my
uncle,
> that is, and he took me to the store.  I'm sure Arai wasn't paying him to
> make sure I got the proper helmet!
>
> Looks to me like Arai is copying their business plan from Micro$oft...
>
> -patti
>
> Patti the Lantech
> '95 Virago 750




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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:26:43 EST
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In a message dated 12/13/01 9:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
dave@XXXXXX writes:


> It was pretty cool to see a picture of local fast guy and fellow lister 
> Steve Keener in this month's edition of Roadracing World & Motorcycle 
> Technology. Steve won the GT Lights Expert race at the CCS Race of 
> Champions in Daytona back in October.  I think he had a couple of 
> championships this season as well.

Thanks.  5 regionals and 1 national....I'll take it.  The amusing thing about 
this year was that I had gotten faster at every track I race at....and hadn't 
wrecked.  Until the very last day of the season....in practice my engine 
seized coming out of a turn...locked the real wheel and threw me at about 80 
mph.  Oh well....  :)

> Thats pretty good for a guy who weighs almost as much as his bike.  :-)
> 
Ow ow ow.....that almost hurts...until I remember who said it.  

For those that haven't heard of my nickname...MudDawg....ask Dave Cross how I 
got it.  :)

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 12/13/01 9:24:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, dave@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">It was pretty cool to see a picture of local fast guy and fellow lister <BR>
Steve Keener in this month's edition of Roadracing World &amp; Motorcycle <BR>
Technology. Steve won the GT Lights Expert race at the CCS Race of <BR>
Champions in Daytona back in October.&nbsp; I think he had a couple of <BR>
championships this season as well.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Thanks.&nbsp; 5 regionals and 1 national....I'll take it.&nbsp; The amusing thing about this year was that I had gotten faster at every track I race at....and hadn't wrecked.&nbsp; Until the very last day of the season....in practice my engine seized coming out of a turn...locked the real wheel and threw me at about 80 mph.&nbsp; Oh well....&nbsp; :)</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Thats pretty good for a guy who weighs almost as much as his bike.&nbsp; :-)<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
Ow ow ow.....that almost hurts...until I remember who said it.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
For those that haven't heard of my nickname...MudDawg....ask Dave Cross how I got it.&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Keener<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 10:48:28 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 07:48:26 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Counter proposal to illogical new helmet sale policy
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My response to this insanity.

> You guys can't be this naive. I have no beefs with
> your company's desire to see everyone wearing a
> properly sized helmet. Indeed first time buyers
> should
> find a local store and try on all manner of sizes,
> shapes and brands. 
> 
> However, it is RARE indeed for a salesman to be
> clueful about helmet sizing and fit, and to help the
> costomer choose the right size. Most people don't
> understand that they frequently choose a size or two
> too big. They worry about how tight the cheek pads
> are
> to the detriment of the rest of their skull. If this
> policy is to curry favor with local retail stores
> who
> have been screaming about having to compete with
> mail-order, then at least be honest about it. If
> Arai's can't adequately command a price premium then
> purhaps it's time to rethink your pricing. Helmets
> aren't Ferrari's. When the top speed on any given
> road
> is less than 80mph a Civic does people just fine.
> 
> As an MSF (motorcycle safety foundation) instructor
> I
> make a very big deal about proper fit and go to
> considerable lengths to teach my students how to
> find
> the right helmet.
> 
> If Arai wants to do something genuinely useful
> instead
> of majorly screwing over the tens of thousands of
> customers who happen to know which helmet size is
> appropriate for them (anecdotes aside), purhaps your
> company would consider donating helmets to the MSF
> campuses. I teach primarly at the Loudoun, VA campus
> of the Northern VA Community College and we would be
> delighted to have a size selection (one each) of the
> lower-tier models in plain solid colors. Nothing
> fancy. The students (24 every week) could try them
> on
> in the classroom and determine their appropriate
> size
> with eagle-eyed instructors giving pointers. I would
> surmise that we are FAR more trained than the local
> teanage kid hawking lids. A discount coupon or
> rebate
> worth say $50 or $100 for an Arai purchase at any
> local MC shop would probably be VERY effective in
> generating sales.
> 
> If you want to combat the issue of mail-order
> returns,
> then maybe you can sign agreements with such houses
> that require them to take back helmets in like new
> condition: a practice rarely practiced in the
> industry. Indeed helmet sales at the local shop
> level
> are also one-time events. Practically NOBODY will
> let
> you return a helmet after it has left the front
> door.
> What are you going to do about that? Further, does
> Arai have a program to educate every last helmet
> salesman on proper fit? A stupid sales droid intent
> only on a sale is no more useful than a likewise
> ignorant consumer.
> 
> Afterall, Arai products while being excellent, are
> expensive and a new rider is often put off by Arai's
> premium pricing. Indeed that is why most of my
> students buy Shoei's and HJC, not to mention the
> instructors as well. Unless you've got colluding
> agreements from Shoei and HJC, Arai is going to
> loose
> sales on an unprecedented scale and your competition
> will gleefully steal your sales while nodding their
> heads piously over the "wide-spread problem with
> helmet fit." You guys angling for a share-holder
> lawsuit, too?
> 
> I think there are better ways to address Arai's
> concern over proper fit and hopefully I've given you
> a
> couple.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 10:52:50 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 10:47:32 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
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At 10:09 AM 12/14/2001, Paul Wilson wrote:
>Arai has had rather hard-nosed ideas about marketing lately.  It sees itself
>as a "premium"
>separate me from the money, thbrand and jealously guards its image and 
>brand name.

Yeah, I'm sure they just ran the numbers. They were selling too many 
helmets to high-volume low-margin mail order companies, and too few helmets 
to low-volume high-margin local bike shops. They've decided that they 
prefer more money for fewer helmets.

A much more subtle strategy would have been to make no announcement, and 
just throttle the number of helmets that they ship to the mega-sellers 
until they find the sweet spot. If people get tired of waiting for the 
cheaper helmet to be "in stock", they will buy it at the LBS. Instead 
they've made a marketing decision to piss off their customers.

>It sent
>corporate bulldogs after a BMW club web site for *linking* to the Arai web
>site without permission.

Here's a funny article about "permission to link":

<http://www.wired.com/news/business/0%2C1367%2C48874%2C00.html>

Maybe Arai has a corporate theme song that they're trying to hide! :-)

  /// Rob



From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 11:03:03 2001
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I'm an AGV helmet fan (go Rossi!) so the Arai decision doesn't affect me directly.  And I certainly think Arai makes some of the highest quality helmets.  But I agree that this is a truly unfortunate turn of events and hope Arai reconsiders their decision.  And I hope this doesn't result in a ripple effect throughout the helmet industry.  As for saving money on a top shelf helmet, consider the KBC VR-1:

http://www.helmetharbor.com/estore/products.cfm?seriesid=vr-1

If I was in the market for a new or second helmet, I would give this one some very serious consideration.  IMHO, their graphics suck but for the money you could buy a plain Jane white one and do a custom paint job for the same or less as a full-on racer rep!  Also, it's my understanding that KBC actually manufacturers helmets for some of the other (top name) helmet makers (but don't quote me on this).

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Gary Foreman fj1100@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 09:19:08 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 


Great!  Now I have to pay $500 for a helmet instead of $350.   I will have
to find another manufacturer.  I will send Arai my feelings!



----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:01 AM
Subject: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.


>
>
> Forgive me if you've seen this in other forums:
>
> http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm
>
>
> I think this is unfortunate.
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX
>

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 12:58:01 2001
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From: "Rob Winters" <rob@XXXXXX>
>
> Yeah, I'm sure they just ran the numbers. They were selling too many
> helmets to high-volume low-margin mail order companies, and too few
helmets
> to low-volume high-margin local bike shops. They've decided that they
> prefer more money for fewer helmets.

arai doesn't get more $/helmet from some place like powerblow than they do
from helmetshop.com.  it's powerblow and other walk-in retailers who are
losing out.  they mark up the helmets probably 45-50%, while the online
places can afford to only mark 'em up 10% or so.

as someone else mentioned, it may also be the case that arai wants the
street price to be remarkably close to the MSRP so that the helmets maintain
the "elite" image.  with luck, i've got close to 5 years before i have to
replace my new arai.  maybe by then there will be another reasonably priced
outlet...
--
        -greg

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At 12:57 PM 12/14/2001, Greg Thompson wrote:
>arai doesn't get more $/helmet from some place like powerblow than they do
>from helmetshop.com.

So, no price break if you move 500 units a month instead of 5? This seems 
contrary to every wholesale arrangement I've every heard of. If you don't 
mind me asking, how do you know?

If it's true, this seems like an unusually harsh economic climate for Arai 
to give up all of their best customers so that they sell a lot fewer 
helmets and make a lot less money, all in pursuit of a eL33T image. They 
should be trying something novel about now, like a "good value for the 
money" image. :-)

The only thing similar I can think of is (was?) HD forcing consumers to buy 
their Harley at a particular (local) dealer. This was only because HD 
couldn't make enough to meet demand, so they wanted top dollar, dealer 
loyalty, follow-on service, accessories purchases**, etc, for each unit 
sold. Is Arai unable to keep up with demand?

Arai's not going to make much more on any one sale by forcing people into 
the LBS. "Want some official Arai chin strap polish to go with that 
helmet?" :-)

  /// Rob

** Anyone who's ever been in a Harley dealership knows that "HD" really 
stands for "hundred dollars".


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 14:19:40 2001
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112140859520.11021-100000@gillian.brauhausdc.org>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:19:32 -0500
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Interestingly, 

www.helmetshop.com still has the Arai's for sale.... online mail order

hmm...

Genna Melamed
genna@XXXXXX


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:01 AM
Subject: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 


> 
> 
> Forgive me if you've seen this in other forums:
> 
> http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm
> 
> 
> I think this is unfortunate. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX
> 
> 


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 14:31:53 2001
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From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>
cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
In-Reply-To: <002801c184d4$457fa150$7d687b3f@ducman>
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On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Genna Melamed wrote:
> Interestingly, 
> 
> www.helmetshop.com still has the Arai's for sale.... online mail order

As stated in their release -- they're going to continue selling the helmets
with dates indicating manufacture prior to 9/1/01. 

-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 14:34:46 2001
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
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Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112141430510.11021-100000@gillian.brauhausdc.org>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:43 -0500
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I don't see anything on their site that states that....  Can you point me
where that release is please?


Genna Melamed
genna@XXXXXX


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.


> On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Genna Melamed wrote:
> > Interestingly,
> >
> > www.helmetshop.com still has the Arai's for sale.... online mail order
>
> As stated in their release -- they're going to continue selling the
helmets
> with dates indicating manufacture prior to 9/1/01.
>
> --
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 14:40:34 2001
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From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
In-Reply-To: <003a01c184d6$61a64940$7d687b3f@ducman>
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On Fri, 14 Dec 2001, Genna Melamed wrote:

> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:34:43 -0500
> From: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>
> To: Daniel H. Brown <brown@XXXXXX>
> Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
> 
> I don't see anything on their site that states that....  Can you point me
> where that release is please?
> 


Ah, my fault. You posted about "helmetshop" and the original was
"helmetharbor"


-- 
Dan Brown
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 15:25:58 2001
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From: Steve Beck <eighty5max@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets. 
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Corporations never cease to amaze me. The decision
makers in this company must have a cumulative IQ of
about 40. They clearly don't understand the simple
idea of "Supply and Demand". Once their sales drop
through the basement, the people that made this
decision will be fired and mail order sales will
return. 

ALL OF US RIDERS SHOULD DO THEIR PART AND BOYCOTT ARAI
HELMETS. SHOW THEM THAT THE CUSTOMER IS THE ONES WITH
THE POWER TO MAKE THEM SUCCESSFUL OR A FAILURE. NOT
THE BLOATED OVERPAID MORONS THEY PAY 6 FIGURES TO COME
UP WITH IDIOT DECISIONS LIKE THIS ONE.
--- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> 
> Forgive me if you've seen this in other forums:
> 
>
http://www.helmetharbor.com/arai_issue/arai_policy_change.htm
> 
> 
> I think this is unfortunate. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dan Brown
> brown@XXXXXX
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 15:38:43 2001
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.
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Here's the deal...

Arai believes that mail-order houses are not a good place to buy a helmet. 
They seem to think that dealers, for the most part, have helpfull staff and 
can help the consumer get the right helmet.  I can see the line of reasoning, 
but it's flawed as we all know how "helpfull" most dealers are, at least in 
our area.  I also think that they want their helmets to be viewed as 
"premium" helmets, and not have to compete on price alone in a catalog or 
website.

While I don't agree with them, it's their helmet and they can decide to sell 
it however they want. Note though, that this does not make any more money for 
Arai - Arai does not sell direct to dealers, they use a normal distribution 
channel (i.e. they sell to distributers like Street & Comp, who then sell to 
dealers). 

The thing is though... it won't change anything. You can still call a place 
like SpeedWerks (</shameless plug> 302-672-7223) and get your Arai helmet at 
a significant discount and have it shipped to your door.  Not all retailers 
are motorcycle dealers, and not everyone is out to rip you off at 80% markup 
(FYI, that's about what the markup is when you see an Arai for $500 at 
Powerblow).

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 16:09:54 2001
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
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Subject: bike inspecting
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Anyone know of a website that lists what to look for/look out for when
buying a used bike?

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 16:14:22 2001
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From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: bike inspecting
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:14:03 -0500
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http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Cedric
1996 CBR600F3
Annandale, VA 

"Chaos, panic, &  disorder - my work here is done."


-----Original Message-----
From: RichH@XXXXXX [mailto:RichH@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:09 PM
To: SecaIITalkList@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: bike inspecting


Anyone know of a website that lists what to look for/look out for when
buying a used bike?

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 16:26:10 2001
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From: "Wideglide Harley" <wideglide93@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Bike Rodeo's
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:26:04 -0500
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Does anyone know where I can find anything about Motorcycle Rodeo
events. I know about the standard ones like slow ride or rail ride ect.
I'm looking for anything different.

Thanks

Wideglide

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 16:38:10 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 15:34:33 -0600
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Here is a great article on buying used bikes, tons of good advice.

http://www.clarity.net/%7Eadam/buying-bike.html#2


Happy Holidays,

George Cole
01 FZ1

George M Cole
Technology Consultant
Boise Technology
301-523-4161
FAX 1-888-240-3154

>>> <RichH@XXXXXX> 12/14/01 04:09PM >>>
Anyone know of a website that lists what to look for/look out for when
buying a used bike?


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 16:55:31 2001
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: nighttime ride
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 16:55:09 -0500
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Hi All,

Anyone interested in an evening ride, either next week or the week after
Christmas?  Might be fun to scoot around and look at people's Christmas
decorations.  I know a couple crazy houses that look like that Maryland
Lottery commercial.  Anyone interested, please let me know!  We can pick one
of the balmy nights... like it was last night!  Freakin'  60 degrees in
December, I love it!

Happy Friday, Happy Holiday, ho ho ho!

-patti


Patti the Lantech
'95 Virago 750


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 17:02:06 2001
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From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
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http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=1227&mode=nested&order=0&thold=1

Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 17:16:56 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:16:48 -0500
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"Kawazuki" or 'Suzaki"? "Kawasuzi"? "Suzikawa"? "Zukizaki"? "Zakizuki"?

(Learning Japanese, I'm really learning Japanese, I really think so....)

Wait until the Italians get onto this idea -- we'll get the "Apricati",
sold to fruits only.

-- Larry


At 04:55 PM 12/14/01, hcaldwell wrote:
>http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=1227&mode=nested&order=0&thold=1
>
>Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 17:21:42 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "VFRLIST" <vfr@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112140859520.11021-100000@gillian.brauhausdc.org> <01121415352001.24234@firewall.dcc-racing.org>
Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:24:41 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Roach" <roach@XXXXXX>

>
> Here's the deal...
>
> Arai believes that mail-order houses are not a good place to buy a helmet.
> They seem to think that dealers, for the most part, have helpfull staff
and
> can help the consumer get the right helmet.  I can see the line of
reasoning,
but it's flawed as we all know how "helpfull" most dealers are, at least in
our area.

You're right, it's a nice idea in theory, but in the real world?  I agree
that a newbie who's never been fitted should NOT be buying helmets via mail
order unless they have a very good idea of sizes.  The new rider should have
tried lots of options and should not just latch onto the first thing he or
she sees.  Any MSF graduate has the basic information necessary to find a
helmet that fits, but they need to be presented with a range of sizes,
options and manufacturers since helmets fit differently on melons of
different shape.  I don't have an Arai shaped head; Shoeis fit 10 times
better on me.  How do I know this?  From trying on a bunch of helmets in a
shop.

Where the whole thing falls apart is that most shops I've encountered are
utterly UNhelpful in this department, or certainly not helpful enough to
justify the mark-ups they command.  I've been in local shops that shall
remain nameless and I must have donned an invisible man suit upon entering
the store.  I practically have to club a sales person over the head to get
any help.  It's frankly laughable that they're going to make sure each
helmet they sell is a good fit.  Maybe some shops do;  it would certainly be
alien to my experience.  I'm sure if I walk up to the counter with an Arai
purchase under my arm, the barely above minimum wage drone will say "sorry
sir, we can't sell you that helmet.  It's Fred's day off and he's the only
one in the store who has a diploma from the Arai Helmet Fitting Institute.
He has to make sure it fits."

Anyone buying a replacement helmet should not be denied the privilege of
saving some money and buying a helmet on-line with no hassles, especially if
the local dealer is not offering any added value for his mark-up or has
inadequate stock on hand in terms of sizes and colors.  I have a feeling
Arai is going to lose some repeat customers over this.  I don't mind paying
a little extra for a good "brick and mortar" shopping experience, a good
selection, instant gratification without waiting on a delivery via UPS, etc.
I also don't expect the LBS to carry the burden of being a showroom for an
on-line retailer.  On the other hand, I don't like the idea of manufacturer
forcing me to deal with clueless and greedy retailers.  I have a feeling if
LBS owners would clean up their acts a little this "problem," which is
largely of their own making, would go away.

Paul in DC





From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 17:32:12 2001
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	 Fri, 14 Dec 2001 14:31:07 -0800
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: nighttime ride
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:32:02 -0500
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Patti,


Sounds good. Let me know when you intend to do this and where the ride will
be.

Ricardo



Hi All,

Anyone interested in an evening ride, either next week or the week after
Christmas?  Might be fun to scoot around and look at people's Christmas
decorations.  I know a couple crazy houses that look like that Maryland
Lottery commercial.  Anyone interested, please let me know!  We can pick one
of the balmy nights... like it was last night!  Freakin'  60 degrees in
December, I love it!

Happy Friday, Happy Holiday, ho ho ho!

-patti


Patti the Lantech
'95 Virago 750


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 17:57:18 2001
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Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 17:56:24 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0112140859520.11021-100000@gillian.brauhausdc.org> <01121415352001.24234@firewall.dcc-racing.org> <011a01c184ee$373b4a80$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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Paul Wilson wrote:

> I have a feeling
> Arai is going to lose some repeat customers over this.

And a whole bunch of potential customers, too.  If they
don't wanna sell mail-order, they must not be very interested
in my money.  Whatever.

Horkster

-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT Rider #322 - Completed.  All 99 done!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 19:53:29 2001
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Subject: Re: Arai -- no more mail/phone/internet sales of Arai helmets.
References: <2344588A203AD311B7950090276269862CF711@CWDEXCH0> <5.1.0.14.2.20011214103207.00acd2f0@mail.annapurna.com> <OE41wZRYQjP2cz1uzxz0000188f@hotmail.com>
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Greg Thompson wrote:

> arai doesn't get more $/helmet from some place like powerblow than they do
> from helmetshop.com.  it's powerblow and other walk-in retailers who are
> losing out.  they mark up the helmets probably 45-50%, while the online
> places can afford to only mark 'em up 10% or so.

True.  Retailers pay more than a volume shop.  When I wuz in bizz I got the
stuff thru a distributor at a base discount of 40%.  Doing xxx$/mo with the
distributor could boost the discount to 40/10.  Some factorys allowed direct
purchase with case lot volumes, discount up to 50/10%, same as they sell the
stuff to mail order jobbers.  I did a lot of truckload buying on *must have*
high ticket stuff and sold it at a low markup - only way to compete with mail
order.  Local shops can't beat the price, but they should at least try.

And from the other side of the counter I'll say this - those who *use* a local
shop to get info, tryons, whatever, and then buy mail ordrer to save $20 on a
$200 purchase are vampires.  They suck the blood out of local shops, and are the
first to complain when a local shop doesn't offer blue ribbon service.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 20:18:08 2001
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To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, fastlanecycles@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 20:16:02 -0500
Subject: Arai Plan - Sounds Like Good Business
Message-ID: <20011214.201603.-417977.0.CelticRacing@juno.com>
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From: Tom Fitzpatrick <celticracing@XXXXXX>

I love to go into all the shops that I can.  And I have noticed some
interesting trends.

I have noticed that a lot of shops have in whole or in part stopped
carrying the premium brands, like Arai and Shoei.  I see a lot of HJC. 
My guess is that entirely too many customers (from a business standpoint
- no moral judgement) are in fact using these outlets as fitting rooms
and then going to the mail order source to save some money.  All well and
good, until the dealer has an investment in expensive (to him, too, even
at wholesale, they are relatively more expensive than mid-priced helmets)
helmets he can't move, subject to shop wear, damage and theft, as well as
taking up floor space that could be used for something that can be sold,
which is why he is in business.  

As a result, the dealer resorts to a model with a lower acquisition cost
and associated MSRP, and a bigger % markup, so that he can compete, turn
them over more quickly, and pay his mortgage.  Eventually, the free
advertising that comes with being a premium brand in a shop disappears. 
Arai who?  I bet that people tend to keep buying the same brand helmet
they originally purchased.  And, for most people, that is the helmet they
get at the dealer.  So, with no advertising, no promotion, no "fitting
rooms", the "premium" brand is no longer in the mainstream retail market.
 

My guess is that as an accommodation for this plan, the dealers will
acquire the "premium" brand helmets at a lower wholesale price,
particularly if they can become a volume dealer.  The "premium" brand
will get the promise of "premium" product placement, and get pushed by
the dealers in promotions.  

Finally, we are assuming that the vast majority of helmets are sold
on-line or by phone/mail order.  I don't know that such an assumption is
true.  It is possible that we are a market savvy group that is cutting
into the bread and butter outlets of the helmet companies.  So Arai is
bending to their demands.  If Arai was making most of its money on-line,
I am sure that they would tell the dealers to go to hell.  Look at the
aftermath of the dot com "revolution".

I am not making a judgement about what we should or should not do,
relative to dealer support, or where we should or should not shop.  I am
just looking at it as a business decision, and it looks to me like Arai
has made a smart move.  We'll find out.

Of course, I could be wrong.  There's always a first time ;-)

So, go buy a helmet at Fast Lane!  Rick has two great looking ladies
there who, if they don't help you get a tight fitting helmet, will
certainly make your jeans a little snugger!

Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6  (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors:
*Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX  (703)818-8890
(www.fastlanecycles.com)*
*Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX
(www.racingleather.com)*
*Nuts and Bolts Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX
(www.nbracesites.com)*
*Janet Bell TAX Preparation, Accounting and Consulting
(belljan@XXXXXX)*

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 14 20:51:45 2001
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Arai Plan - Sounds Like Good Business
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At 08:16 PM 12/14/01, Tom Fitzpatrick wrote:
>....  All well and
>good, until the dealer has an investment in expensive ...
>helmets he can't move, subject to shop wear, damage and theft, as well as
>taking up floor space that could be used for something that can be sold,
>which is why he is in business.

Maybe that's why some dealers, like Free State Cycles, keep all their
helmets secure behind the parts counter now. They say too many
have walked off to leave them out where people can freely handle them
and try them on.

-- Larry



From dc-cycles-request Sat Dec 15 15:05:42 2001
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	Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:05:13 -0500
From: laura granato <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: "Alan Nelson" <alanandbetsy@XXXXXX>,
   "Alisa Weinstein" <AWeinstein@XXXXXX>, "Audrey Gia" <Tantryk@XXXXXX>,
   "Beth Wyse" <wyse@XXXXXX>, "Brian McCoy" <mcycleracr@XXXXXX>,
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   "donnie tingle" <dtiiifan@XXXXXX>, "gil gates" <spiox@XXXXXX>,
   "jeanette zell" <jzell@XXXXXX>,
   "jennifer wolny" <jwolny@XXXXXX>,
   "jennilynne guthridge" <jen.guthridge@XXXXXX>,
   "jill macneice" <jill.macneice@XXXXXX>,
   "joann baker" <jobaker@XXXXXX>, "karyn forsyth" <ksprig99@XXXXXX>,
   "mike troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>, "rob watson" <r0bwats0n@XXXXXX>,
   "rosalie lacorazza" <rlacorazza@XXXXXX>,
   "ryan schlagheck" <ryan.schlagheck@XXXXXX>, "sally wood" <swood@XXXXXX>,
   "sam heim" <jshcentr@XXXXXX>,
   "sherwood deforest" <sdeforest@XXXXXX>,
   "steve clark" <tightsqueezeracing@XXXXXX>,
   "steve keener" <skeener2@XXXXXX>, "tony barbaro" <spazmonk@XXXXXX>,
   "wendy gaal" <wendy@XXXXXX>, webmaster@XXXXXX
Subject: My First Web Site
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:01:50 -0500
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Hi Everyone!

I just finished building my first Web site.   If you have a chance, take a 
peek.  If you find any bugs, let me know, as I'm still trying to work them 
out!

www.dcc-racing.org/~laura

Enjoy!
Laura


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 09:31:12 2001
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
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   rapid6r@XXXXXX
Subject: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:30:14 -0500
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I went this weekend to look at a bike for sale.  It's a 2001 SV650S w/ 9k
miles on it.  I was told it had been down once.  I was hoping high milage
and winter time were adding up to the low advertised cost.  When I got there
it was obvious the bike had been down on both sides.  The seller said he had
fallen on one side and the bike had been pushed over on the other side.
Later when I asked how many times the bike had been down he said he didn't
know.  All the drops were at low speed, going into gas stations, making
turns, ect.  I know my Seca II had been down at least once before I bought
it and it's been blown over by the wind once in the 2 years I've had it and
it still rides fine.  My question is how bad is this for a bike?  Are they
made to withstand being dropped?  

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 11:13:23 2001
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From: "Randy Moran" <Randy.Moran@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dropped bike
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I know from experience that the SV can take a lot of abuse. 
I crashed my first one numerous times. As long as the price 
was right I'd consider buying the one you're talking about, HOWEVER, 
it seems as if the guy selling the bike has been a little less than 
forthcoming in terms of the bike's history, so that would send up some
red flags. He also rides like a twat, apparently, judging from the little we
do know about the bike. 9k miles should mean at least three oil changes, 
too, I would figure. How's the maintenance been, I wonder? 
Just some impressions based on what you've said. Good luck,
RPM


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 11:23:45 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:26:40 -0500
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Red flag time.  "Didn't know" how many times it had been down, or was too
embarrassed to say?  Either way, it's a none too flattering portrayal of his
stewardship of this machine.  Unless I could get it at a knock-down, pardon
the pun, price I'd pass.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
----- Original Message -----
From: <RichH@XXXXXX>

> I went this weekend to look at a bike for sale.  It's a 2001 SV650S w/ 9k
> miles on it.  I was told it had been down once.  I was hoping high milage
> and winter time were adding up to the low advertised cost.  When I got
there
> it was obvious the bike had been down on both sides.  The seller said he
had
> fallen on one side and the bike had been pushed over on the other side.
> Later when I asked how many times the bike had been down he said he didn't
> know.  All the drops were at low speed, going into gas stations, making
> turns, ect.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 11:31:58 2001
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:31:16 -0500
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Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles and used to work as a
mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd never dropped my bike.  I am
too actually since you're basically expected to drop your first bike.  I did
take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This is at least his 3rd bike.
The scariest question he asked me was had I ever considered getting a beater
to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01 I'm not looking at it as a
beater.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Randy Moran [mailto:Randy.Moran@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Monday, December 17, 2001 11:07 AM
To:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: dropped bike

I know from experience that the SV can take a lot of abuse. 
I crashed my first one numerous times. As long as the price 
was right I'd consider buying the one you're talking about, HOWEVER, 
it seems as if the guy selling the bike has been a little less than 
forthcoming in terms of the bike's history, so that would send up some
red flags. He also rides like a twat, apparently, judging from the little we
do know about the bike. 9k miles should mean at least three oil changes, 
too, I would figure. How's the maintenance been, I wonder? 
Just some impressions based on what you've said. Good luck,
RPM

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 11:39:58 2001
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <RichH@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:38:04 -0500
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Walk away.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200

> -----Original Message-----
> From: RichH@XXXXXX [mailto:RichH@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:31 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: dropped bike
>
>
> Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles and used to work as a
> mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd never dropped my
> bike.  I am
> too actually since you're basically expected to drop your first
> bike.  I did
> take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This is at least
> his 3rd bike.
> The scariest question he asked me was had I ever considered
> getting a beater
> to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01 I'm not looking at it as a
> beater.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From: 	Randy Moran [mailto:Randy.Moran@XXXXXX]
> Sent:	Monday, December 17, 2001 11:07 AM
> To:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject:	Re: dropped bike
>
> I know from experience that the SV can take a lot of abuse.
> I crashed my first one numerous times. As long as the price
> was right I'd consider buying the one you're talking about, HOWEVER,
> it seems as if the guy selling the bike has been a little less than
> forthcoming in terms of the bike's history, so that would send up some
> red flags. He also rides like a twat, apparently, judging from
> the little we
> do know about the bike. 9k miles should mean at least three oil changes,
> too, I would figure. How's the maintenance been, I wonder?
> Just some impressions based on what you've said. Good luck,
> RPM


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 11:41:12 2001
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From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dropped bike
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Two words - RUN AWAY.  The guy you are buying from is on his third bike, 
and he has dropped his bike more than three times in 9k miles?  Run away 
screaming and buy one somewhere else.

At 11:31 AM 12/17/01, you wrote:
>Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles and used to work as a
>mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd never dropped my bike.  I am
>too actually since you're basically expected to drop your first bike.  I did
>take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This is at least his 3rd bike.
>The scariest question he asked me was had I ever considered getting a beater
>to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01 I'm not looking at it as a
>beater.

___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

If you think dogs can't count, try putting three dog biscuits in
your pocket then giving Fido only two of them.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 12:06:37 2001
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From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:06:28 -0500
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Id be worried about more problems the bike could have. Make sure the frame
is not bent. Unless you get a heck of a deal, stay away.

Ricardo



I went this weekend to look at a bike for sale.  It's a 2001 SV650S w/ 9k
miles on it.  I was told it had been down once.  I was hoping high milage
and winter time were adding up to the low advertised cost.  When I got there
it was obvious the bike had been down on both sides.  The seller said he had
fallen on one side and the bike had been pushed over on the other side.
Later when I asked how many times the bike had been down he said he didn't
know.  All the drops were at low speed, going into gas stations, making
turns, ect.  I know my Seca II had been down at least once before I bought
it and it's been blown over by the wind once in the 2 years I've had it and
it still rides fine.  My question is how bad is this for a bike?  Are they
made to withstand being dropped?


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 12:13:39 2001
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From: "Danny Thompson" <dthompso1@XXXXXX>
To: "D.C. Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <ICELILGBNMMDNCICPHNPMEGKCHAA.ricardopontes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: dropped bike
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:14:22 -0500
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Like I said earlier, IF the frame and engine are sound. This guy doesn't
sound like the most honest person, but he may be. Take it to a local shop
and have them do a leakdown test and compression test, tell him to pay for
it and if it checks out you will pay for it in the purchase price. Check the
frame and forks for straightness as best you can, forks are easy, frame is
more difficult.
Of course there is always the option to just walk away and find one that you
feel more comfortable about.
Danny
'02 XR 250R
'00 SV (racebike)
'98 Superhawk
'01 Shadow ACE Tourer

www.onewayracing.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 12:06 PM
Subject: RE: dropped bike


>
> Id be worried about more problems the bike could have. Make sure the frame
> is not bent. Unless you get a heck of a deal, stay away.
>
> Ricardo
>
>
>
> I went this weekend to look at a bike for sale.  It's a 2001 SV650S w/ 9k
> miles on it.  I was told it had been down once.  I was hoping high milage
> and winter time were adding up to the low advertised cost.  When I got
there
> it was obvious the bike had been down on both sides.  The seller said he
had
> fallen on one side and the bike had been pushed over on the other side.
> Later when I asked how many times the bike had been down he said he didn't
> know.  All the drops were at low speed, going into gas stations, making
> turns, ect.  I know my Seca II had been down at least once before I bought
> it and it's been blown over by the wind once in the 2 years I've had it
and
> it still rides fine.  My question is how bad is this for a bike?  Are they
> made to withstand being dropped?
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 13:15:55 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:15:52 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: dropped bike
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I second that walk away.

--- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Walk away.
> 
> --jon
> 01 Suz Bandit 1200
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RichH@XXXXXX
> [mailto:RichH@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:31 AM
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: RE: dropped bike
> >
> >
> > Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles
> and used to work as a
> > mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd
> never dropped my
> > bike.  I am
> > too actually since you're basically expected to
> drop your first
> > bike.  I did
> > take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This
> is at least
> > his 3rd bike.
> > The scariest question he asked me was had I ever
> considered
> > getting a beater
> > to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01
> I'm not looking at it as a
> > beater.
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> > From: 	Randy Moran [mailto:Randy.Moran@XXXXXX]
> > Sent:	Monday, December 17, 2001 11:07 AM
> > To:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject:	Re: dropped bike
> >
> > I know from experience that the SV can take a lot
> of abuse.
> > I crashed my first one numerous times. As long as
> the price
> > was right I'd consider buying the one you're
> talking about, HOWEVER,
> > it seems as if the guy selling the bike has been a
> little less than
> > forthcoming in terms of the bike's history, so
> that would send up some
> > red flags. He also rides like a twat, apparently,
> judging from
> > the little we
> > do know about the bike. 9k miles should mean at
> least three oil changes,
> > too, I would figure. How's the maintenance been, I
> wonder?
> > Just some impressions based on what you've said.
> Good luck,
> > RPM
> 


__________________________________________________
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Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 14:56:54 2001
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From: "Randy Moran" <Randy.Moran@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: dropped bike
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RichH wrote:

"Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles and used to work as a
mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd never dropped my bike.  I am
too actually since you're basically expected to drop your first bike.  I did
take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This is at least his 3rd bike.
The scariest question he asked me was had I ever considered getting a beater
to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01 I'm not looking at it as a
beater."


Hmmm. Sounds fishy to me. 

The whole "synthetic oil" thing is basically unverifiable, so I'd have a tendency to discount it.
It also seems strange that the owner would treat the engine so well and treat the rest of the
bike like a stray dog, as it were. Then there are his wheelie/beater questions which would seem
to indicate a certain undesirable (for you as the prospective owner) attitude toward the treatment
of his possessions. I would give this one a pass, just based on what you tell us. It sounds like the 
bike is already a "beater," and would take significant investment on your part to clean up. 
This being the case, I guess you'd be better off finding one that's in better shape. 

Good luck, whatever you do.

RPM



From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 16:24:26 2001
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'ekauppi@XXXXXX'" <ekauppi@XXXXXX>
Subject: 1996 Mustang Cobra
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:26:57 -0500
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Mustang owned by meticulous motorcycle and cage mechanic. (Electronic whiz
too)
Car is in Ann Arbor, MI.
Motorcycle content: 
Hork, it's shaft drive
Strang, try to wheelie this. . . 

  Erik Kauppi <ekauppi@XXXXXX>
Subject: OT, fast cage for sale 
I'm selling a cage and keeping the bikes, so I hope you can resist the urge
to flame me for this one off-topic post.
 
It's a 1996 Mustang Cobra.  That's with the DOHC 4.6 litre four-valve
four-cam motor.  Think of a V65 doubled and enlarged.
 
It's a fast, fun, reliable, really fun, car.  If you gotta drive a car this
is a good one.  Like the V65, you can pass in places mere mortals fear to
tread.  I hate to see it go but family troubles force the sale.
 
White hardtop, black leather, Mach 460 stereo, excellent condition,
purchased new and properly maintained by me.
 59k miles.  $15k 
If interested, reply OFFLIST. Feel free to pass this message on to anyone
who might be interested.  
---- Erik Kauppi ekauppi@XXXXXX (734) 761-1545 ----
---- Corsa data acquisition web page: www.corsa-inst.com ---- 


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 16:53:47 2001
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At 04:26 PM 12/17/2001, Custer, Carl wrote:
>Mustang owned by meticulous motorcycle and cage mechanic. (Electronic whiz
>too)
>Car is in Ann Arbor, MI.
>Motorcycle content:
>Hork, it's shaft drive
>Strang, try to wheelie this. . .

...But how many times has it been dropped on its side?

  /// Rob (sorry, couldn't resist :-)


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 19:43:14 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:43:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
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  A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
concerned about comfort on long highway rides.  When I
told him about riding from Boston to DC on my CBR 600
on I95 (no choice, had to make it home fast), he
winced.  Since he doesn't have a car, finding a
compromise between comfort and sportiness is
essential.  I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
purposes?  Any other possible bikes?  

Thanks, 

Adam Reinhardt

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 21:06:07 2001
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:54:59 -0500
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VFR!

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:43:12 -0800 (PST)


   A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
concerned about comfort on long highway rides.  When I
told him about riding from Boston to DC on my CBR 600
on I95 (no choice, had to make it home fast), he
winced.  Since he doesn't have a car, finding a
compromise between comfort and sportiness is
essential.  I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
purposes?  Any other possible bikes?

Thanks,

Adam Reinhardt

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 22:16:51 2001
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:17:09 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Justin Lemrow <firblt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
In-Reply-To: <F307lNw1Jd0M0bPHaKW0000602f@hotmail.com>
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yup
got my vote too :)

Justin

At 08:54 PM 12/17/2001 -0500, Rob Keiser wrote:
>VFR!
>
>Rob
>'98 VFR800
>
>
>From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
>Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:43:12 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>   A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
>Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
>wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
>concerned about comfort on long highway rides.  When I
>told him about riding from Boston to DC on my CBR 600
>on I95 (no choice, had to make it home fast), he
>winced.  Since he doesn't have a car, finding a
>compromise between comfort and sportiness is
>essential.  I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
>maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
>out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
>purposes?  Any other possible bikes?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Adam Reinhardt
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
>your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
>or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>


1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 17 22:27:18 2001
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Message-ID: <3C1E7174.3C64@starpower.net>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:28:08 +0000
From: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: pawilson@XXXXXX
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>    A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
> Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
> wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
> concerned about comfort on long highway rides. ..

 I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
> maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
> out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
> purposes?  Any other possible bikes?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adam Reinhardt
> 


I may be just a tad biased, but I don't think your friend will be
disappointed in the 90-97 VFR as a long distance mount, and it has
plenty of spirit for more sporty riding.  They're fairly inexpensive and
there are a lot of them out there.  you should be able to get a good
clean low-mileage VFR for around $4500.  If you have doubts, hang out on
model-specific email lists for a little while.  Lots of links at the URL
below.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750
www.wilsonline.org

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 00:16:15 2001
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From: "James Reazor" <JReazor@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <F307lNw1Jd0M0bPHaKW0000602f@hotmail.com> <3C1E7174.3C64@starpower.net>
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:15:16 -0500
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> I may be just a tad biased, but I don't think your friend will be
> disappointed in the 90-97 VFR as a long distance mount, and it has
> plenty of spirit for more sporty riding.  They're fairly inexpensive and
> there are a lot of them out there.  you should be able to get a good
> clean low-mileage VFR for around $4500.  If you have doubts, hang out on
> model-specific email lists for a little while.  Lots of links at the URL
> below.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750
> www.wilsonline.org

I would have to agree with the consensus so far and I don't even own a VFR.
Of course, the SV650 is almost the perfect motorcycle :)

-James
'00 SV650


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 03:03:38 2001
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From: "Shigeru Honda" <shonda3@XXXXXX>
To: "Adam Reinhardt" <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20011218004312.34207.qmail@web9605.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 03:03:58 -0500
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How about something between VFR & CBR1000F...
May I suggest, 1995 KAWASAKI GPZ 1100 !!
Its faster than VFR (on straight...) and lighter than CBR ! comfortable too.
its a very good Sports Touring bike, in good condition with 13.5K miles for
$3,300 (discounted for DC-Cycle lister and their friends)

Here's how it looks like;
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P61+C18+A0+R100001132+Q3558909
01

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Reinhardt" <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750


>
>   A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
> Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
> wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
> concerned about comfort on long highway rides.  When I
> told him about riding from Boston to DC on my CBR 600
> on I95 (no choice, had to make it home fast), he
> winced.  Since he doesn't have a car, finding a
> compromise between comfort and sportiness is
> essential.  I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
> maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
> out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
> purposes?  Any other possible bikes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam Reinhardt
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 09:02:13 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:01:18 -0500
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
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X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.6
 |December 14, 2000) at 12/18/2001 09:01:30 AM


Add to that list the Suzuki RF900.  If you can find a used one, they are a
great mount, similar in size, comfort, sportiness and touring range to the
VFR.  It is a bit more off the beaten path with a few more ccs and slightly
higher performance.  Down side is that it is a discontinued model as of
'98.

--chris





Shigeru Honda <shonda3@XXXXXX> on 12/18/2001 03:03:58 AM





To:   Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
      dc-cycles@XXXXXX
cc:
Subject:  Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750


How about something between VFR & CBR1000F...
May I suggest, 1995 KAWASAKI GPZ 1100 !!
Its faster than VFR (on straight...) and lighter than CBR ! comfortable
too.
its a very good Sports Touring bike, in good condition with 13.5K miles for
$3,300 (discounted for DC-Cycle lister and their friends)

Here's how it looks like;
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/ad.exe?P61+C18+A0+R100001132+Q3558909

01

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Reinhardt" <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750


>
>   A friend of mine is looking to move from a Honda
> Shadow 600 to a sport/sport-touring bike.  While he
> wants a fun bike for twisty weekend rides, he's also
> concerned about comfort on long highway rides.  When I
> told him about riding from Boston to DC on my CBR 600
> on I95 (no choice, had to make it home fast), he
> winced.  Since he doesn't have a car, finding a
> compromise between comfort and sportiness is
> essential.  I suggested either a 91-95 VFR 750 or
> maybe a CBR 1000F of the same vintage, new bikes being
> out of his price range.  Which would be better for his
> purposes?  Any other possible bikes?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Adam Reinhardt
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
> your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
> or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>


----------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 09:30:16 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 06:29:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Knapik <t_knapik@XXXXXX>
Subject: Biker-backed charity makes breadthrough in Africa
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Hmmmmmmm, and nobody in the US has come up with
anything similar???? 

                       Biker-backed charity makes
                        breakthrough in Africa


                        18 Dec 2001




 Riders for Health has signed the first ever agreement
for a non-governmental organisation to manage medical
transportation in an African country.

The UK Charity of the Year has signed the agreement
with the government of Gambia, stating that Riders for
Health will manage all the Department of State for
Health vehicles.

Riders for Health was founded in 1989 by members of
the
motorcycle community to try to solve the
transportation problems of medical services in remote
parts of Africa.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 10:46:40 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 10:44:04 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: CBR 1000 vs. VFR 750
To: christopher.meier@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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christopher.meier@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> Add to that list the Suzuki RF900.  If you can find a used one, they are a
> great mount, similar in size, comfort, sportiness and touring range to the
> VFR.  It is a bit more off the beaten path with a few more ccs and slightly
> higher performance.  Down side is that it is a discontinued model as of
> '98.

Yet another good bike who's plug got pulled prematurely by Suzuki.

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 12:26:10 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 11:05:37 -0500
From: "Eyler-Walker,Zachary T." <zach@XXXXXX>
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To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, RichH@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dropped bike
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> From: RichH@XXXXXX
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, SecaIITalkList@XXXXXX,
>    rapid6r@XXXXXX
> Subject: dropped bike
> Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 09:30:14 -0500
> 
> I went this weekend to look at a bike for sale.  It's a 2001 SV650S w/ 9k
> miles on it.  I was told it had been down once.  I was hoping high milage
> and winter time were adding up to the low advertised cost.  When I got there
> it was obvious the bike had been down on both sides.  The seller said he had
> fallen on one side and the bike had been pushed over on the other side.
> Later when I asked how many times the bike had been down he said he didn't
> know.  All the drops were at low speed, going into gas stations, making
> turns, ect.  I know my Seca II had been down at least once before I bought
> it and it's been blown over by the wind once in the 2 years I've had it and
> it still rides fine.  My question is how bad is this for a bike?  Are they
> made to withstand being dropped?

I'm curious what it looked like -- my SV650 standard seems like it would
pretty much land tank first if it were to fall over, and this would be a
very bad thing.  Still, if it pretty much just fell over, I'd expect it
to be in okay riding shape.  Ugly, but rideable.  If nothing structural
or mechanically critical has snapped or been bent, and the price is low
enough, it's probably worth buying.  If having an ugly bike will bother
you, it will probably cost an arm and a leg to get it back up to snuff.

How much is the guy asking for this beater of an sv650S?

Zach 
SV650 '00

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 13:12:00 2001
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'rob@XXXXXX'" <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject:  1996 Mustang Cobra-Electric bag
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 13:14:41 -0500
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Rob Winters wondered, "...But how many times has it been dropped on its
side?"
Umm, he has a dual sport for dropping and falling down. 
Which reminds me.
Electric bag
Anyone see/heard from Linda Tanner?






From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 15:30:17 2001
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'RichH@XXXXXX'" <RichH@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: You have never dropped your bike?
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 15:29:54 -0500
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This guy sounds... like he dropped the bike on his head, or he picked it up
cheap and is trying to turn a profit --AT YOUR EXPENSE--  don't walk away,
don't run away.... hop in you car and do a wheelie outta there!  

Why burden yourself with a potential bad ride or a troublesome one... when
there are so many good ones out there.

Shop around. You've got all winter.  

I don't get the synthetic line... is that supposed to impress anyone or just
some higher minded riding snob.  
I would be more worried about transmission problems, clutch wear and general
engine wear whether the syntho or dyno-juice were used.  Abuse is abuse.
Whipping up on engines leads to wear no matter what lube is used.  This one
sounds like it's heading down the road to either a hefty repair bill or the
bone yard.  

>Guy says he uses synthetic oil every 1500 miles and used to work as a
>mechanic.  He's only 22.  Seemed surprised I'd never dropped my bike.  I am
>too actually since you're basically expected to drop your first bike.  I
did
>take the MSF class, I'm not too sure he did.  This is at least his 3rd
bike.
>The scariest question he asked me was had I ever considered getting a
beater
>to just do wheelies and such on.  This is a '01 I'm not looking at it as a
>beater.




From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 16:04:50 2001
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Subject: Where to buy aluminum 
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	I need some aluminum barstock to build
a rack for my bike but I don't know where to 
purchase it. Any leads?

Thanks,
Hugh



From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 16:36:02 2001
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:34:34 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Where to buy aluminum
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
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hcaldwell wrote:
> 
>         I need some aluminum barstock to build
> a rack for my bike but I don't know where to
> purchase it. Any leads?

Home Despot?  I've seen stuff like that for sale
there.

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 18 17:37:08 2001
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	I've tried all of those places and none of
them have any significant sized bar stock. I'm looking
for 1/2" x 1-1/2" stock. I'll try the welding places.

Hugh

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Leon Begeman wrote:

> Home Depot, Lowes, or other hardware/home improvement
> store.  You might have to shop at a couple of them to
> get the size you need.
> 
> Leon.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 05:20:52 2001
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Reply-To: "Richard L. Casale" <RichCasale@XXXXXX>
From: "Richard L. Casale" <RichCasale@XXXXXX>
To: "VFR List" <vfr@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC-Cycles Mailing List" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Either Clogged Fueld Injectors or Fuel Filer ???
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:08:48 -0400
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Recently, like an moron, I ran my 2000 Honda VFR800 out of gas twice in one
night (long story).  Ever since she is no where near as responsive and every
once in a while the FI sputters and spurts.  What I'm thinking is a)
something from the bottom of the gas tank has partially clogged the fuel
filter or line, or b) the same gung in the bottom of the gas tank has
clogged up the fuel injectors.  Not really having any clue (I can admit
that) I'm curious if a) I can inspect the gas line and filter myself and b)
if I can run some injector cleaner through my system that is safe for
motorcycles.

I don't have access to a shop manual and I don't want to spend the $$$ right
now to have a dealer check it out--unless I have to.  Any suggestions would
be greatly appreciated!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------
The VF/VFR mailing list--see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr-list/
for subscribe/unsubscribe, policy and archive information.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 08:27:05 2001
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The Onion: "Wow, check out that motorcycle revving!"

http://www.theonion.com/onion3746/motorcycle_revving.html



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 08:51:02 2001
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Good grief!  Are you building a tank or a rack?  The  aluminum rack I
had on my old Suzuki was made out T-6 sheet aluminum about 1/10th of an
inch thick.  It was very light and frigging indestructable.

Bill

hcaldwell wrote:

>         I've tried all of those places and none of
> them have any significant sized bar stock. I'm looking
> for 1/2" x 1-1/2" stock. I'll try the welding places.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Leon Begeman wrote:
>
> > Home Depot, Lowes, or other hardware/home improvement
> > store.  You might have to shop at a couple of them to
> > get the size you need.
> >
> > Leon.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 09:12:35 2001
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Great, but where'd you buy it? ;)

Justin

At 08:48 AM 12/19/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Good grief!  Are you building a tank or a rack?  The  aluminum rack I
>had on my old Suzuki was made out T-6 sheet aluminum about 1/10th of an
>inch thick.  It was very light and frigging indestructable.
>
>Bill


1999 VFR 800
Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 09:38:43 2001
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At my local m/c shop after the second cheesy chrome tube rack broke.   Made
by Rack Factory -  no longer in bizz?  But any versitle sheet metal shop
would have T-6 and for a fee OUCH! they could cut it to shape.  A welding
shop could finish the project.


Justin Lemrow wrote:

> Great, but where'd you buy it? ;)
>
> Justin
>
> At 08:48 AM 12/19/2001 -0500, you wrote:
> >Good grief!  Are you building a tank or a rack?  The  aluminum rack I
> >had on my old Suzuki was made out T-6 sheet aluminum about 1/10th of an
> >inch thick.  It was very light and frigging indestructable.
> >
> >Bill
>
> 1999 VFR 800
> Northern VA/Washington DC


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 09:56:34 2001
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	Here is the rack I want to build.
http://www.dirtly.com/luggage_rack_dr650.html
If anyone has any other ideas on mounting the rack
I'll be glad to hear them.
	I'm planning on riding this bike and rack to 
South America so I'm much more interested in durability
then in weight.

Thanks,
Hugh

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, William J. Huson wrote:

> Good grief!  Are you building a tank or a rack?  The  aluminum rack I
> had on my old Suzuki was made out T-6 sheet aluminum about 1/10th of an
> inch thick.  It was very light and frigging indestructable.
> 
> Bill


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 10:26:45 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 07:26:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Where to buy aluminum
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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It looks like they've made it so heavy because they're
using the 1 1/2" width of the bar as the only
front-to-rear support on the top box.  If you use a
couple of pieces of smaller aluminum and space them 6"
or so apart (two bars across instead of one) you'll
have a lot more front-to-rear stability to keep it
from rocking, and still have sufficient strength to
carry the load in the box.  

Leon.


--- hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> 	Here is the rack I want to build.
> http://www.dirtly.com/luggage_rack_dr650.html
> If anyone has any other ideas on mounting the rack
> I'll be glad to hear them.
> 	I'm planning on riding this bike and rack to 
> South America so I'm much more interested in
> durability
> then in weight.
> 
> Thanks,
> Hugh
> 
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, William J. Huson wrote:
> 
> > Good grief!  Are you building a tank or a rack? 
> The  aluminum rack I
> > had on my old Suzuki was made out T-6 sheet
> aluminum about 1/10th of an
> > inch thick.  It was very light and frigging
> indestructable.
> > 
> > Bill
> 


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 10:39:32 2001
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	I've been thinking the same thing but looking
at the pictures the one mount they do use is located
all the way back on the grab rails so a second rail
could only be a couple inches in fron of the rear rail
assuming the box location remained the same. The box
could sit farther forward but I still need for the mounting
rack to lift the box at least 1/2" as the grab rails are
quite low. I've also considered using box stock (square hollow
stuff) but I'm stumped as to a decent way to attach it to
the grab bars.
	
Thanks for your input.
Hugh

On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Leon Begeman wrote:

> It looks like they've made it so heavy because they're
> using the 1 1/2" width of the bar as the only
> front-to-rear support on the top box.  If you use a
> couple of pieces of smaller aluminum and space them 6"
> or so apart (two bars across instead of one) you'll
> have a lot more front-to-rear stability to keep it
> from rocking, and still have sufficient strength to
> carry the load in the box.  
> 
> Leon.
> 


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 11:17:13 2001
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Potomac Steel, in Springfield.  You'll have to buy a 10' or 20' length, but
it'll cost you very little.  They also have scrap bins and piles/areas of
cut up pieces that you can purchase, if you find what you need.  If you have
a hacksaw, or other means of cutting material to fit it into your vehicle,
bring it, as they don't cut it for you for free.

Mike
'96 VFR


<	I've tried all of those places and none of
<them have any significant sized bar stock. I'm looking
<for 1/2" x 1-1/2" stock. I'll try the welding places.

<Hugh

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Leon Begeman wrote:

> Home Depot, Lowes, or other hardware/home improvement
> store.  You might have to shop at a couple of them to
> get the size you need.
>
> Leon.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 11:52:31 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:49:07 -0500
Subject: Re: Either Clogged Fueld Injectors or Fuel Filer ???
To: RichCasale@XXXXXX
Cc: vfr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
References: <000601c15d4d$cdca3290$69f80d18@cj33046b>
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RichCasale@XXXXXX writes:
>Recently, like an moron, I ran my 2000 Honda VFR800 out of gas twice in
>one
>night


Slow learner?  8^)


Ok, first, I'm not familiar with your model, so what follows is pretty
general...


> (long story).  Ever since she is no where near as responsive and every
>once in a while the FI sputters and spurts. 



Under what conditions? Cold, warm? Accelerating?  Throttle position?  Rpm?



> What I'm thinking is a)
>something from the bottom of the gas tank has partially clogged the fuel
>filter or line, or b) the same gung in the bottom of the gas tank has
>clogged up the fuel injectors. 



This sounds plausible, but it seems to me that any crap at the bottom of
your tank would (start to) enter the filter, fuel pump (yours has a fuel
pump?), carbs/injectors system as soon as you switch to reserve rather
than when you run out of gas.  Otoh, the longer you're on reserve the
longer stuff near the bottom can get in.


> Not really having any clue (I can admit
>that) I'm curious if a) I can inspect the gas line and filter myself 



Again, don't know your model, but on earler ones (if I remember right) the
filter was in a metal housing and not visible for inspection.   If you
really think that you have crud in your tank, I'd start by replacing the
fuel filter.



>and b)
>if I can run some injector cleaner through my system that is safe for
>motorcycles.


I have no personal experience with this, but people do it all the time. 
Have you checked with your local honda dealer?


>
>I don't have access to a shop manual



It's a cost-effective tool.


Good luck.

--garcia

"We're lost, but we're making good time."






> and I don't want to spend the $$$ right
>now to have a dealer check it out--unless I have to.  Any suggestions
>would
>be greatly appreciated!!!



From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 12:01:05 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:01:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Either Clogged Fueld Injectors or Fuel Filer ???
To: RichCasale@XXXXXX
Cc: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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RichCasale@XXXXXX writes:
>Recently, like an moron, I ran my 2000 Honda VFR800
out of gas twice in
>one
>night

Ya know... you might try disconnecting the battery and
reconnecting it.  I've heard of people doing that with
modern injected Triumphs. It resets the engine
management computer(s) or something.

Worth a try, I would think.

Rich
'00 Triumph Sprint ST



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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 12:34:55 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:34:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "CBR's Rule" <mrcbr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Where to buy aluminum 
To: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10112181556150.23975-100000@rhino.spottedcat.com>
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Hugh - Try 
http://www.onlinemetals.com/

They specialize in supplying small quantities of metal
stock to those who need it.  I have used them in the
past and they were fast and cheap.

Don B
--- hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> 	I need some aluminum barstock to build
> a rack for my bike but I don't know where to 
> purchase it. Any leads?
> 
> Thanks,
> Hugh
> 
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 15:33:58 2001
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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 12:33:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Free Trailer Rails
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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DCC Guys and Gals, I have three trailer rails I want
to give away.  They are very heavy gauge steel which I
took off of my 1972 trailer.  I have replaced them
with wider rails to accomadate 180 tires.  I believe
they are 5" wide and at least 7' long, perfect for
older bikes or dirt bikes.  Whoever responds first
gets them.

Glenn

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 19:50:00 2001
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Subject: Re: Either Clogged Fueld Injectors or Fuel Filer ???
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In a message dated 12/19/2001 11:54:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
garicao@XXXXXX writes:

> yours has a fuel
>  pump?

If it is injected, it has a pump, gravity just does not cut it for injection. 
Of course if you mounted the tank 10 or 20 feet above the bike...


From dc-cycles-request Wed Dec 19 23:34:34 2001
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From: "rdrdr" <rydin@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Motorcycle Thief 
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:34:18 -0500
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Clayton Lee Waagner - the guy that sent haox anthrax letters to abortion
clinics.  From the ATF website:

"In 1975 WAAGNER was convicted of stealing a motorcycle in Virginia..."

I knew he was bad !


Niv
BMW F650ST




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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 01:24:43 2001
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Subject: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
From: Mwalker3@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 01:03:46 -0500
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I will be out of the office starting  12/19/2001 and will not return until
01/02/2002.

I will be on annual leave during this period.  I will reply to your message once
I am back in the office.  For urgent matters requiring immediate attention,
please contact either Richard Mance ((1)(202) 458-1525), or Judith
Ramsay-Williams ((1)(202) 458-5979), who will assist you.

Happy holidays.


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 07:29:44 2001
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Here we go again!


----- Original Message -----
From: <Mwalker3@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:03 AM
Subject: Mark Walker is Out of the Office


> I will be out of the office starting  12/19/2001 and will not return until
> 01/02/2002.
>
> I will be on annual leave during this period.  I will reply to your
message once
> I am back in the office.  For urgent matters requiring immediate
attention,
> please contact either Richard Mance ((1)(202) 458-1525), or Judith
> Ramsay-Williams ((1)(202) 458-5979), who will assist you.
>
> Happy holidays.
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 08:15:24 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 05:15:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <OF2E2D0E10.AA6C9678-ON85256B28.00214DFF@worldbank.org>
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And John Walker is out of his mind.

Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.

Trey (here to wind you up)

--- Mwalker3@XXXXXX wrote:
> I will be out of the office starting  12/19/2001 and
> will not return until
> 01/02/2002.
> 
> I will be on annual leave during this period.  I
> will reply to your message once
> I am back in the office.  For urgent matters
> requiring immediate attention,
> please contact either Richard Mance ((1)(202)
> 458-1525), or Judith
> Ramsay-Williams ((1)(202) 458-5979), who will assist
> you.
> 
> Happy holidays.
> 


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 09:22:28 2001
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From: Cedric Bernescut <bernescut@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@dc-cycles. org (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
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Brings new meaning to the term "open pipes"  =:O
Cedric
1996 CBR600F3 (RIP)
Annandale, VA 




Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.

Trey (here to wind you up)

-

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 10:13:26 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 10:12:23 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
To: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Trey Herb wrote:

> Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
> US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.

I'd be much happier if he was in prison
with Bill Clinton, where they both belong.

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:07:34 2001
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At 10:12 AM 12/20/2001, Dale Horstman wrote:
>I'd be much happier if he was in prison
>with Bill Clinton, where they both belong.

Oh, no! It's a political discussion list!

Worse, a DC-based political discussion list!

Suddenly, I need a shower.

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:12:33 2001
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Would the 30 outlaw bikers be using shaft drive?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dale Horstman [mailto:the.horkster@XXXXXX]
> 
> 
> Trey Herb wrote:
> 
> > Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
> > US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.
> 
> I'd be much happier if he was in prison
> with Bill Clinton, where they both belong.
> 
> Horkster


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:17:04 2001
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To: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I have used only Chevron Tekron, and I can tell you it cleaned up my old
Yamahopper.

Also, guys on the XJ owners list really like Seafoam which should be
available at boat shops.

But, like others have said, get the factory manual and the Haynes (or,
whatever) manual.

You will get your money back in just one or two repairs.

I have never used it so I have no idea.

Good luck


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:18:39 2001
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Subject: RE: RE: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
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Jon asks -

Would the 30 outlaw bikers be using shaft drive?

  <DJY>  I don't think they allow belts or chains in the jug...  so, yes, that would be shaft drive...  no chain, no lube..



Dave



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dale Horstman [mailto:the.horkster@XXXXXX]
> 
> 
> Trey Herb wrote:
> 
> > Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
> > US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.
> 
> I'd be much happier if he was in prison
> with Bill Clinton, where they both belong.
> 
> Horkster

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:32:51 2001
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'t_knapik@XXXXXX'" <t_knapik@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Biker-backed charity
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Yeah, we call it a helicopter.


 
>Subject: Biker-backed charity makes breakthrough in Africa
>To: 
>Hmmmm, and nobody in the US has come up with
>anything similar????

                       Biker-backed charity makes
                        breakthrough in Africa




From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:37:13 2001
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From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <sdave@XXXXXX>, "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:35:23 -0500
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blech.  I'm *so* sorry I went there...


> Jon asks -
> 
> Would the 30 outlaw bikers be using shaft drive?
> 
>   <DJY>  I don't think they allow belts or chains in the jug...  
> so, yes, that would be shaft drive...  no chain, no lube..
> 
> 
> 
> Dave


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:41:08 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Dale Horstman" <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20011220131522.20586.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com> <3C21FFD7.A5E80170@home.com>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:43:30 -0500
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All this fuss over this misguided brat Walker, oh well, I guess that applies
to WJC too!  Maybe Mr. Walker will enjoy the Ezra Pound suite over at St.
Elizabeth's where the fascist sympathizer nut job poet turned traitorous
radio commentator was locked up after WWII.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <the.horkster@XXXXXX>



> Trey Herb wrote:
>
> > Moto Content - I think we should  put John Walker in a
> > US prison with about 30 outlaw bikers.
>
> I'd be much happier if he was in prison
> with Bill Clinton, where they both belong.
>
> Horkster


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 20 11:52:15 2001
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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 11:50:26 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
To: Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
Cc: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Jon Strang wrote:
> 
> Would the 30 outlaw bikers be using shaft drive?

I would think the proper term would by "hydraulics"  :)

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 08:51:41 2001
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Dunlop D205
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:54:15 -0500
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FWIW, Dunlop will continue some sizes.  At least in Sweden.

From: awittmeyer@XXXXXX
To: q.rs@XXXXXX
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Dunlop Tire Contact Form Submission  
Robert, 
Thank you for taking the time to contact us regarding the availability of
the Dunlop D205.  Although the new Dunlop D220 will replace the D205 in some
sizes, the D205 will continue to be available in the sizes you have listed,
namely 110/80-18 and 140/80-17.   
                    "Dunlop Tire"


>From : Robert Soback
Address : Springarvagen 7
City : Trangsund
State :
Zip Code : S-14261
Country : Sweden
 
Email : q.rs@XXXXXX
Website : www.waveca.com/qtech
 
Comments :
I'm currently using a pair of Dunlop's d205's 140/80-17 and 110/80-18 on my
Honda V65 Sabre '85 (VF1100S) and I'm very satisfied with them.
The question is: Will the production of the d205's be terminated now that
you are introducing the new d220 in 2002?
Since the new d220 won't be produced in the same dimensions it seems like
all people riding these kind of older bikes will have to look for another
brand of tires if we still want good grip and stable cornering and not run
on some sort of backlite tires.
 
Their are a lot of people riding these kind of bikes. Just the Honda V4's
you can read about at www.sabmag.org
 



From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 15:54:33 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 12:54:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Hugh Caldwell - I found some aluminum for you.
To: DCCycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I found a guy who has a couple of pieces of aluminum
in the 1/2" x 1 1/2" that you need.  He thinks he has
as much as 3' of it left over from another project. 
Contact me and I'll send you his phone number.

Leon.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 17:57:37 2001
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From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Tough crowd
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 17:57:27 -0500
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Just rode in from work on my Yamaha r1, and i it was pretty heavy traffic. I
had a police car behind me for a long time, i thought i was safe with him
there. A van cut in front of the police car and then cars in front of me
slowed down, and i followed. I usually stay to the left of the fast lane, in
case i need to get out of a car coming from behind you that does not stop,
apparently this van did not stop and when i looked to my right, it was right
ere, i was glad that i ride on the left portion of the lanes. The cop did
absolutly nothing. I gave the van driver a mean look, and he apparently did
not want to look at me, very embarrased.

A few more miles down the road, the cop car still behind me, a car decided
to make a left into my lane, pushing me to the shoulder, i honked for a
while. The cop car did nothing... What is up with prince georges police
officers? Dont they realize that in those 2 incidents i could have been
killed!

It was pretty crappy riding in today

Ricardo


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 18:15:09 2001
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dccycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tough crowd
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 18:13:05 -0500
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Hopefully you got the guy's car number so that you can report it.  When
you go to the police station to get the complaint form, take it with
you.  Make sure to make a copy of it & send it to Jack Johnsohn, the PG
county attorney that has been pursuing the PG police corruption.  copy
Doctor Gridlock's column as well.

People just don't pay attention.  I saw a couple get low speed rear
ended on North Quaker lane tonight on the way home in my truck.  I asked
if they were ok, & gave them my name & number just in case.  about 2
weeks ago, I'm shipping parts from my departed Cobra, and as I'm getting
parts out of the truck to go into the shipping store, some moron backs
into another parked car in his SUV.  I flag him down and say 'hey, you
hit that car'  He looks at me and says 'so, there's no damage, looks
fine to me'  I say 'let me put it another way, if you leave without
notifying the other driver, I'll call the police'.  it wasn't like he
just scraped it either, he actually pushed the car...  he left the guy a
note w/ contact info & so did I after he left.

I suspect traffic will be a living Hell around here for the next 3
days...

Ride safe.

Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/

-----Original Message-----
From: Ricardo Pontes [mailto:ricardopontes@XXXXXX]
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 5:57 PM
To: Dccycles
Subject: Tough crowd




Just rode in from work on my Yamaha r1, and i it was pretty heavy
traffic. I
had a police car behind me for a long time, i thought i was safe with
him
there. A van cut in front of the police car and then cars in front of me
slowed down, and i followed. I usually stay to the left of the fast
lane, in
case i need to get out of a car coming from behind you that does not
stop,
apparently this van did not stop and when i looked to my right, it was
right
ere, i was glad that i ride on the left portion of the lanes. The cop
did
absolutly nothing. I gave the van driver a mean look, and he apparently
did
not want to look at me, very embarrased.

A few more miles down the road, the cop car still behind me, a car
decided
to make a left into my lane, pushing me to the shoulder, i honked for a
while. The cop car did nothing... What is up with prince georges police
officers? Dont they realize that in those 2 incidents i could have been
killed!

It was pretty crappy riding in today

Ricardo


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 19:01:05 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:00:55 EST
Subject: Re: Tough crowd
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In a message dated 12/21/2001 6:17:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
sdave@XXXXXX writes:

>  I say 'let me put it another way, if you leave without
>  notifying the other driver, I'll call the police'. 

Thanks. Gotta love a bad ass biker.
I mean it could hve been my wifes car, or my bike, so I think you deserve a 
thank you.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 19:15:37 2001
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <PenguinBiker@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tough crowd
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 19:14:20 -0500
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sdave@XXXXXX writes:

>  I say 'let me put it another way, if you leave without
>  notifying the other driver, I'll call the police'.

Thanks. Gotta love a bad ass biker.
I mean it could hve been my wifes car, or my bike, so I think you
deserve a
thank you.


	<DJY>  I wouldn't have appreciated it were it my vehicle, particularly
my bike.  If I'd have done the damage, I'd have left a note.  Back when
I was in high school, a former GF of mine backed into a car quite hard.
I was doing my level best to get back in her good graces, and I thought
there was actually light at the end of the tunnel...  she took off.  I
didn't say anything for a few minutes , and finally she bought it up.  I
tried my best, but well, she was not looking forward to being punished
for yet another bad driving episode.  So I told her that it would be
infitely cheaper if she was to notify the driver before the cops found
out, and it probably wasn't going to require insurance etc...  She went
back...  to the car she plowed, not me.  GRRR!



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 21 20:43:57 2001
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Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 20:41:49 -0500
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From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tough crowd
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At 07:14 PM 12/21/2001, Dave Yates wrote:
>She went
>back...  to the car she plowed, not me.  GRRR!

You are better off....



______________________________________
    Mike Troutman
         mike@XXXXXX
         http://www.troutman.org

         It's lonely at the top, but you eat better


From dc-cycles-request Sat Dec 22 15:59:10 2001
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 15:56:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Tough crowd
To: ricardopontes@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
References: <ICELILGBNMMDNCICPHNPIEJHCHAA.ricardopontes@yahoo.com>
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ricardopontes@XXXXXX writes:
>A few more miles down the road, the cop car still behind me, a car decided
>to make a left into my lane, pushing me to the shoulder, i honked for a
>while. The cop car did nothing... What is up with prince georges police
>officers? Dont they realize that in those 2 incidents i could have been
>killed!

 In addition to whatever else may be going on here, they're doing a work
slowdown.  When PG cops are not busy beating, shooting or suffocating
people in PG---all well-documented, and currently under FBI
investigation---(they're also willing to travel to Virginia to kill
people---c.f. Prince Jones' murder), they're on slowdown to protest the
conviction of one of their own (Stephanie Mohr) for deliberately siccing
her police dog on an arrested, unresisting, handcuffed (if I recall right)
man who was caught...sleeping on a roof.

If you're not familiar with the long and sordid record of the PG police
department, you can find more than you probably want to know by searching
the Washington Post or Washington Times.  PG police are an embarrassment
to decent cops.

--garcia

"The Law, in its majestic Equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor
from stealing bread, begging in the streets, and sleeping under
bridges."--Anatole France
















From dc-cycles-request Sat Dec 22 18:01:04 2001
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tough crowd
Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 17:56:23 -0500
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Garcia reminded us -

 In addition to whatever else may be going on here, they're doing a work
slowdown.  When PG cops are not busy beating, shooting or suffocating
people in PG---all well-documented, and currently under FBI
investigation---(they're also willing to travel to Virginia to kill
people---c.f. Prince Jones' murder)


	<DJY>  You can blame the Commonwealth's attorney for choosing not to
prosecute the officer for a host of weapons crimes.  WTF happened to
project exile ?  As soon as he crossed into VA, he broke the law (not
requesting permission).


, they're on slowdown to protest the
conviction of one of their own (Stephanie Mohr) for deliberately siccing
her police dog on an arrested, unresisting, handcuffed (if I recall
right)
man who was caught...sleeping on a roof.

If you're not familiar with the long and sordid record of the PG police
department, you can find more than you probably want to know by
searching
the Washington Post or Washington Times.  PG police are an embarrassment
to decent cops.


	<DJY>  While I am in NO way excusing the actions you cite, they are
that way because their leaders have failed to properly motivate and
discipline them.  The PG governement has bred this little gang of armed
thugs...  Ironically, I've always found that from a motorist's
perspective, PG wasn't too bad...


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Sat Dec 22 21:48:36 2001
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Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 21:50:50 -0500
From: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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To: garcia oliver <garicao@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Tough crowd
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garcia oliver wrote:
> 
> ricardopontes@XXXXXX writes:
> >A few more miles down the road, the cop car still behind me, a car decided
> >to make a left into my lane, pushing me to the shoulder, i honked for a
> >while. The cop car did nothing... What is up with prince georges police
> >officers? Dont they realize that in those 2 incidents i could have been
> >killed!
> 
>  In addition to whatever else may be going on here, they're doing a work
> slowdown.  When PG cops are not busy beating, shooting or suffocating
> people in PG-...


In addition to Garcia's comments, the original poster commits the grave
error of assuming routine traffic law enforcement is somehow related to
promoting safety on the highways.

Paul in DC

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 24 13:52:36 2001
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Tough crowd
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 13:51:28 -0500
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>>People just don't pay attention.  

Living right off of Rock Creek Parkway, I see tons of people who don't pay
attention, or just plain don't care. After seeing a dog hit by three---
count 'em--- three cars (none of which stopped, by the way), I became the
crazy old bat who sits on her porch and takes pictures of the
hit-and-runners.  We get about one a weekend, more when it is a
drinky-weekend.  I won't park the bike out front, and it's just a matter of
time before some little kid gets flattened.  And I agree that the next three
days will be havoc on the roads!  But anyone with the guts to confront
someone who's trying to flee the scene gets my vote for Mr. Nice Guy.  

Stay safe, everyone, and happy Santa Claus!!!

-patti

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 24 23:54:54 2001
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	Mon, 24 Dec 2001 22:54:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Thomas Zell" <zellto@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Holiday Greetings!!!
Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 23:53:41 -0500
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Folks,
 
I'm not going to be politically correct here..
 
Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!
 
Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday week, and may the upcoming
New Year be a better one for us all!
 
Tom and Jeannette Zell
Hera and Red Stripe (the two best Pit Bulls ever)
Silver (breakfast kitty) and Mooshka (stupid kitty)
Tubby, Casper, Boss Hogg, Roscoe, Hoover, and Orik (the aquatic members
of the family)
 
'86 VFR750
'86 VFR700
 
 
 
 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday week, and =
may the
upcoming New Year be a better one for us =
all!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Dec 25 16:38:40 2001
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From: "Howard J. Koontz" <HOFOJOKO@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Hotel references?
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 16:38:36 -0500
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Hey all,
     A buddy of mine and I plan to attend Road Atlanta this year for the AMA
races (May 18th or thereabouts) and I was wondering if any DC-Cycles'ers had
stayed in the area and could recommend (or warn away from) a hotel. Some
place reasonably near the place, with decent access to food and services
would be great. Just hit me off-list when you get a chance.

Have a wonderful Holiday and great New Year!


Howard J. Koontz
2001 Harley Davidson FLHT Electra Glide Standard
1972 Honda Z50AK3 Mini Trail Resto Project



From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 27 11:42:10 2001
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject:  MC accidents 
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 10:56:42 -0500
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SabMag snips for your entertainment-edification:
Statistics, comments, an almost gun-helmet thread, and "compartment
syndrome" (yukk) 

Statistics:
My little brudder is a Dr. He was telling us tales of all the motorcycle
accidents he has seen since starting his residency. We talked for a while
about it, and he had my Mom pretty upset...I asked him how many MC accidents
has he seen this year? He says about 20, they are dangerous, I should be
careful.
How many car accidents says I? 
About 200.
Has he recommended to anyone they should stop driving? 
No.
How many people beat up drunk in a bar? 
A few hundred.
Does he still drink? 
Yup.
I rest my case. 

A NYC Cop commented, "You might want to ask him how many patients are killed
by their doctors every year.   . . . Federal Govt. investigation estimates
over 100,000 people every year die do to malpractice, incompetence,
omissions and commissions.  You know what people in the insurance industry
call a patient who follows his doctor's instructions to the letter?  A poor
insurance risk.
-----------
A Buckeye baited: 
Doctors:  A cocked and locked stethoscope:
Well, the intelligently government, Big Brother thing to do would be to
register all doctors.  Make it a law you have to wait seven days between
making a doctor's appointment and actually following through with the office
visit.  Make it so you can only visit the doctor once or twice a month.
There should also be patient background checks -- to keep everyone honest
and make sure the victim^Wpatient is smart enough to not get duped. 
I got an idea,  why don't we make the world a saver place for our kids by
banning doctors completely except for police and military use? 
Sound ridiculous??  You bet it does.
-----------
A Mainiac mentioned, 
And not remotely on topic. It has been slow here and I miss the usual
banter. Let's not use that for an excuse to wander off into la la land.  
...self appointed nobody 
---------- 
Ohioan: Off topic!?!?  There have been a few `maggots needing medical
attention over the years.  I do believe it's very relevant!  ;-) 
It also exposes a very flawed problem/reaction/line-of-thinking result of
over-zealous, emotionally charged do-gooders. 
Let us also not forget that a very large personality in the motorcycle long
distance community was literally killed by incompetent medical attention
during the 1999 Iron Butt Rally.
 
Going to the hospital is just as bad as visiting your local stealer for
motorcycle service.  You'd better have a good idea of what's going on with
your treatment, or you'll end up like one of our bikes -- damage made worse
by a monkey technician.  Doctors are just auto mechanics with a few of more
years of education.
 
But,  . . . is right.  It's just that some of the goofy schemes the freedom
grabbers (all personal freedoms, not just the concept of weapons ownership)
have come up with since 9/11/01 are a bit disconcerting.
 
As Ed says, "The terrorists may have already won."
 
Hopefully, no radical group is planning to start using motorcycles like they
have in Europe as a tool for hit-an-run assassinations.  If that comes
about, all of our lives will get a bit more complicated.
 
In any event, I plead boredom.  The workday certainly seems a hell of a lot
longer without an interesting and active SabMag list.
Thanks,
----------- 
TarHeel Wisdom: 
compartment syndrome:
I agree, not really off topic. If facts are presented and we all learn
something from it. This year alone I witnessed two cases first hand where
medical incompetence could have had catastrophic consequences.  
A friend of mine high sided on the track, was put in a cast and told to go
home for 8 weeks. Fortunately he sought a second opinion, and was told he
needed surgery, otherwise he would have been in a wheelchair for the rest of
his life. He's walking now.
 
And in my case, I had a low speed get off. The doctor at the local hospital
wanted to send me home, as I had no broken bones. I explained compartment
syndrome to him, insisted that he call a bigger hospital, and was carried
there by helicopter. Turns out I did have compartment syndrome, and was
operated twice in 5 days. Would have been dead if I had followed doctor's
orders. I'm walking too.
 
I think the lesson here is: always seek a second opinion, be informed, don't
trust small local hospitals. Specially in the case of motorcycle accidents,
big trauma centers will offer you a better chance of survival. But if you do
have a mishap, always go to the hospital, even if you think you're OK.
-------
A Porkoplian queried
"What the heck is compartment syndrome? 
If you get it from low speed get-offs then I have it!"
------- 
TarHeel:
Probably not. Compartment syndrome is serious stuff that is quite common
among motorcycle accident victims. It eventually leads to death. 
There are a couple of articles you should read to be aware of compartment
syndrome. In my case, having read the first one a few months before my get
off literally saved my life.
 <http://www.mcnews.com/depts/physical.htm>
 <http://www.siumed.edu/lib/ref/StudentPages/Brown/webpage.htm>
------
Beantowner:
A simple (really, I mean it was simple - so simple you could have done it
-honest, you could have you lazy git) Google.com search here:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22compartment+syndrome%22&btnG=Google+Searc
h>

Brings up some 10,400 references to "compartment syndrome" - none of them
very nice.  Crushing injuries tend to be the most common cause of this, and
amputation is often the result if untreated. 
----
Carl sez, don't look before lunch if you're queasy. Look if you need an
appetite suppressant

21F -6C in my front yard this morning.  God Bless Polartec
Carl in Brr-thesda

From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 27 12:01:18 2001
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Black ice reminder
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 12:04:33 -0500
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It's time for Uncle Paul's annual black ice reminder.  No we haven't had
snow, but a couple of freezing nights and water mains are popping all over
town like champagne corks on New Year's Eve.  So, be on the lookout for ice,
particularly on side streets.  WASA is busy on the gushers, the slow leakers
and little ice makers take longer.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F
www.wilsonline.org


From dc-cycles-request Thu Dec 27 12:35:32 2001
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Really fast green bikes with harsh seats.

hcaldwell wrote:
> 
> http://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=1227&mode=nested&order=0&thold=1
> 
> Hugh


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 28 07:39:52 2001
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compartment
syndrome

TarHeel Wisdom:
compartment syndrome:
I agree, not really off topic. If facts are presented and we all learn
something from it. This year alone I witnessed two cases first hand where
medical incompetence could have had catastrophic consequences.
A friend of mine high sided on the track, was put in a cast and told to go
home for 8 weeks. Fortunately he sought a second opinion, and was told he
needed surgery, otherwise he would have been in a wheelchair for the rest of
his life. He's walking now.

And in my case, I had a low speed get off. The doctor at the local hospital
wanted to send me home, as I had no broken bones. I explained compartment
syndrome to him, insisted that he call a bigger hospital, and was carried
there by helicopter. Turns out I did have compartment syndrome, and was
operated twice in 5 days. Would have been dead if I had followed doctor's
orders. I'm walking too.

I think the lesson here is: always seek a second opinion, be informed, don't
trust small local hospitals. Specially in the case of motorcycle accidents,
big trauma centers will offer you a better chance of survival. But if you do
have a mishap, always go to the hospital, even if you think you're OK.
-------
A Porkoplian queried
"What the heck is compartment syndrome?
If you get it from low speed get-offs then I have it!"
-------
TarHeel:
Probably not. Compartment syndrome is serious stuff that is quite common
among motorcycle accident victims. It eventually leads to death.
There are a couple of articles you should read to be aware of compartment
syndrome. In my case, having read the first one a few months before my get
off literally saved my life.
 <http://www.mcnews.com/depts/physical.htm>
 <http://www.siumed.edu/lib/ref/StudentPages/Brown/webpage.htm>
------
Beantowner:
A simple (really, I mean it was simple - so simple you could have done it
-honest, you could have you lazy git) Google.com search here:
<http://www.google.com/search?q=%22compartment+syndrome%22&btnG=Google+Searc
h>

Brings up some 10,400 references to "compartment syndrome" - none of them
very nice.  Crushing injuries tend to be the most common cause of this, and
amputation is often the result if untreated.
----


From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 28 13:15:48 2001
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Subject: Polar Brrrrr Ride Monday
To: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Anyone here going?

http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/PolarBearAnnouncmt.htm

CU,

Rich
Red '00 Triumph Sprint ST

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 28 13:16:41 2001
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Sorry.  That would be Tuesday, not Monday.


http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/PolarBearAnnouncmt.htm

CU,

Rich
Red '00 Triumph Sprint ST

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 28 13:48:34 2001
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Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 13:48:06 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Polar Brrrrr Ride TUESDAY
To: Scratch <iefbr142000@XXXXXX>
Cc: DCC <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Scratch wrote:
> 
> Sorry.  That would be Tuesday, not Monday.
> 
> http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/PolarBearAnnouncmt.htm


Decisions, decisions...

Ride?  Or hunt Bambi?  Ride?  Or Hunt Bambi?
Ride?  Or HUNT BAMBI!!! 

I can ride any ol' time.  But venison season
only rolls around once a year...  

It'll break my streak of PARR PBRs going back
to 1997, I think, too.  Darn.  Oh well.

Have fun.

Horkster

-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Dec 28 14:09:46 2001
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Either way, you'll be helping the sport of
motorcycling.  What's the limit on deer? 10? 20? 
There's 4 of them living in the woods next to my
house. Let me know when you'd like to come by, and
I'll make sure the wife is not around to see the
carnage.

Have fun.

Rich

>
http://www.potomacarearoadriders.org/PolarBearAnnouncmt.htm
> 
> 
> Decisions, decisions...
> 
> Ride?  Or hunt Bambi?  Ride?  Or Hunt Bambi?
> Ride?  Or HUNT BAMBI!!! 
> 
> I can ride any ol' time.  But venison season
> only rolls around once a year...  
> 
> It'll break my streak of PARR PBRs going back
> to 1997, I think, too.  Darn.  Oh well.
> 
> Have fun.
> 
> Horkster
> 
> -- 
> MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)
> 
> Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 
> 
> AWSHIDT #322 - Completed.  99 Highway Signs!  
>  
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 08:51:56 2001
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Have you tried a machine shop, since those folks fabricate items maybe
they have their own supplier.

Buena Suerte,
mike

hcaldwell wrote:
> 
>         I've been thinking the same thing but looking
> at the pictures the one mount they do use is located
> all the way back on the grab rails so a second rail
> could only be a couple inches in fron of the rear rail
> assuming the box location remained the same. The box
> could sit farther forward but I still need for the mounting
> rack to lift the box at least 1/2" as the grab rails are
> quite low. I've also considered using box stock (square hollow
> stuff) but I'm stumped as to a decent way to attach it to
> the grab bars.
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> Hugh
> 
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Leon Begeman wrote:
> 
> > It looks like they've made it so heavy because they're
> > using the 1 1/2" width of the bar as the only
> > front-to-rear support on the top box.  If you use a
> > couple of pieces of smaller aluminum and space them 6"
> > or so apart (two bars across instead of one) you'll
> > have a lot more front-to-rear stability to keep it
> > from rocking, and still have sufficient strength to
> > carry the load in the box.
> >
> > Leon.
> >


From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 09:00:15 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 08:59:29 -0500
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I'm sorry to spam like this but I have a pair of tickets (together) that I
cannot seem to get rid of, if you are interested, please e-mail me off list.
They are for the show on January 13th of Billy Joel and Elton John at the
MCI Center.

Sorry and thanks,
Mike

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------_=_NextPart_000_01C19203.5DC6A060--

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 09:46:43 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:46:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Art of the motorcycle
To: dccyles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I just got back a couple of days ago from my trip to
Las Vegas.  Any of you listers who make your way out
there owe it to yourselves to see the Art of the
Motorcycle exhibit at the Las Vegas Guggenhiem museum.

It has an amazing collection of bikes from the first
ones built to modern day.  I left the exhibit wishing
I had the chance to ride several of the bikes, and
knowing a lot more about the history of motorcycles
and motorcycle design.  It was interesting to find out
that the American born cruiser seating style was
developed to mimic the American horseback riding
style, where european bikes made you lean forward more
which mimicked european horseback riding.  It never
occured to me that horseback riding influenced the
shape of early motorcycles.

I just wish it wasn't so damn cold when I got back. 
Seeing the exhibit makes we want to get on my bike and
ride.

Keith

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 13:31:59 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 13:31:31 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Art of the motorcycle
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I was in Vegas at the beginning of December.  I made it a point to check out the exhibit.  I even have the book from the New York exhibit.  Weighs down the one side of the coffee table pretty good.  ;-)  Took a couple good pictures too.  Shhhh...don't tell the security guard.  hehe

Scooter

In a message dated Mon, 31 Dec 2001  9:47:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX> writes:

> I just got back a couple of days ago from my trip to
> Las Vegas.  Any of you listers who make your way out
> there owe it to yourselves to see the Art of the
> Motorcycle exhibit at the Las Vegas Guggenhiem museum.
> 
> It has an amazing collection of bikes from the first
> ones built to modern day.  I left the exhibit wishing
> I had the chance to ride several of the bikes, and
> knowing a lot more about the history of motorcycles
> and motorcycle design.  It was interesting to find out
> that the American born cruiser seating style was
> developed to mimic the American horseback riding
> style, where european bikes made you lean forward more
> which mimicked european horseback riding.  It never
> occured to me that horseback riding influenced the
> shape of early motorcycles.
> 
> I just wish it wasn't so damn cold when I got back. 
> Seeing the exhibit makes we want to get on my bike and
> ride.
> 
> Keith
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com



From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 15:33:01 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:32:27 EST
Subject: Re: Art of the motorcycle
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In a message dated 12/31/2001 9:47:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
keithlva@XXXXXX writes:

> It never
>  occured to me that horseback riding influenced the
>  shape of early motorcycles.

Why do you think we mount from the left?
(unless you are a cop)

John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 15:38:12 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:38:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Art of the motorcycle
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Was there ever a side saddle bike made for a girl?

Tehe
--- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> In a message dated 12/31/2001 9:47:28 AM Eastern
> Standard Time, 
> keithlva@XXXXXX writes:
> 
> > It never
> >  occured to me that horseback riding influenced
> the
> >  shape of early motorcycles.
> 
> Why do you think we mount from the left?
> (unless you are a cop)
> 
> John Walters (Long John)
> PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
> Up near DC
> 
> Honda ST1100X Pan European
>     (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan
> European 
>       is now necessary {and I still like it.})
> BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
> Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 15:40:41 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:40:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
Subject: how to drop a bike
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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http://www.ki.org/sbl/101_ways.html

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 15:52:37 2001
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 15:52:16 EST
Subject: Re: Art of the motorcycle
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In a message dated 12/31/2001 3:38:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
trey_22206@XXXXXX writes:

> Was there ever a side saddle bike made for a girl?

Believe it or not, yes. Depending on your definition of bike and made for. 
Italian scooters used to come with both passenger pedals on one side. Rode 
one once, scary as anything I have ever done on a bike. As for driving side 
saddle, I used to ride my Triumph that way on occasion, but that had more to 
do with moving the pain around on a long trip then "proper ladylike behavior" 
(what with not being a lady in any way shape or form.)


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 18:00:00 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:58:15 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
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PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 12/31/2001 9:47:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> keithlva@XXXXXX writes:
> 
> > It never
> >  occured to me that horseback riding influenced the
> >  shape of early motorcycles.
> 
> Why do you think we mount from the left?
> (unless you are a cop)
 
Anyone else wish motos (in the States at least)
had the sidestands on the right side instead of
the left side?  It'd be so much easier parking 
alongside the road (you know, for all those 
rare occurences when your tires go flat, or 
something rattles off, or it's time to have a
roadside chat with Officer Friendly...) with
the shoulder sloping the way it typically does.

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT Rider #322 - Completed.  All 99 done!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Mon Dec 31 18:00:48 2001
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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:59:04 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <the.horkster@XXXXXX>
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To: Trey Herb <trey_22206@XXXXXX>
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Trey Herb wrote:
> 
> Was there ever a side saddle bike made for a girl?

Sure.  It was called the Pacific Coast. 

<grinning, ducking, and running...>

Horkster
-- 
MSL!  SMG! (Chatty Moron TM's)

Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX  
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

AWSHIDT Rider #322 - Completed.  All 99 done!  
 
'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress