From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 12:54:07 2004 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:54:45 -0400 To: "DC-CYCLES" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Ride yesterday. For anyone who looked outside in the morning, saw all the clouds, and believed the forecast for scattered thunderstorms all day long and decided to do something other than riding, you missed a really great day! The American Legion Poker Run, to raise money for their Operation Provide Comfort (benefiting wounded servicemen returning from Iraq and Afghanistan), started at 9:30am, when it still looked pretty iffy out. I'm assuming that's a big part of the reason only about 20-30 bikes showed up. Everyone who didn't passed up a really nice ride. The route started out kinda boring...from the Krispy Kreme on Shady Grove near Rt28, up Shady Grove to 124, then up to Damascus, where there was a jog over to 27 on 108. Up 27 (lots of grooved pavement at the moment) to 80, where it started getting nicer, both the scenery and the weather. The route continued over to Rt 355 up to Frederick H-D for the first stop for another card. Only downside of the whole day happened there...had "Jiffy-Stand failure", or maybe a passing Spacial Anomaly that escaped from Star Trek's universe, but my bike decided to fall over without anyone near it. We'd parked, and walked about half way across the lot, when I heard the crash, turned around and my bike was lying on its side. This is *not* a fun sight. Went over to it, picked it up (a bystander hurried over to help, but I don't think he got much chance...I had it halfway up before he got a grip, and it actually came up pretty easily. Don't know if it was the technique or the adrenaline. The engine guards and bag bars did their job though...other than a slight scuff mark on the bag bar and a couple of ounces of oil that leaked out of someplace I haven't determined for sure yet (clutch cover area), there was no damage at all. Still not sure why it decided to fall...the ground was nearly flat and level, and paved, and there was only a light breeze. A guy had walked past it going to his truck, but I don't think he got within 5 feet of it. All I can think is that I may not have had the stand all the way locked or something. I was very careful to test stability with a shake every time before I left it after that though. After Frederick the next stop was Hagerstown. One of the ride organizers was there and offered to lead anyone who wanted a guide, so about a dozen bikes formed up as a group. The route led up through the downtown part of old Frederick, then up to Rt 550 to Thurmont. Through Thurmont to Rt 70 over the Catoctin Mountains (very nice ride, with some twisty bits and some straight bits, and the weather was gorgeous by then...lots of sun and some puffy white clouds). Not sure of the name of the bar where the cards were drawn, but some folks opted for lunch overlooking a creek, others had beers, and some of us stuck to soda and snacks. Third stop was in Poolsville, with the route being a pretty much straight shot on Rt 40 back to Frederick, then south on 85, 109 and 107. The Rt 40 part was pretty boring, other than the nice country scenery, but it got better as we got closer to Poolesville. Last stop and end of the ride was at D.C. Cruisers off Rt 124 in Gaithersburg near the airport, but the route getting there was north out of Poolesville, up through some really twisty and narrow back roads. I don't recall the names at the moment, but if anyone cares, I can dig out the route sheet. D.C. Cruisers was providing music and free food and drinks (burgers and dogs, water, soda and a few beers) and there was a prize for the worst hand (a deck of cards, for practice ;-) and best hand (three nines with a king high won a choice of any three available prizes), and then some door prizes donated by the sponsors (Krispy Kreme and D.C Cruisers). I won a really nice long sleeved D.C Cruisers T-Shirt. Another rider who didn't stick around gave me his ticket, so when I won on my own, I gave that one to my riding companion (another MC-HOG member I'd run into at the start of the event) and she won with it...then won on her own ticket. One prize was a dozen donuts at Krispy Kreme, so her office really wins that one, and the other one she gave to one of the kids who was anxiously hoping for a winning ticket...so she mostly won karma points. ;-) There was enough sun for most folks to get a bit red here and there, and other than a few really strong wind gusts in a couple of really open areas, the weather was gorgeous. Too bad there weren't more riders along to experience it and to help out our wounded troops recovering and rehabilitating in area hospitals. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 13:43:14 2004 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "'DC-CYCLES'" Subject: RE: Ride yesterday. Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:42:57 -0400 > The route started out kinda boring...from the Krispy Kreme How can ANY ride that starts at a Krispy Kreme be boring? > Only downside of the whole day happened there...had > "Jiffy-Stand failure" Interesting - I thought that the Harley side stands locked into the down position when weight was placed on them. Glad to hear that the damage was minimal. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 13:51:52 2004 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 13:52:12 -0400 To: dc-cycles From: Aki Damme Subject: RE: Ride yesterday. At 01:42 PM 8/1/2004, you wrote: > > The route started out kinda boring...from the Krispy > Kreme > >How can ANY ride that starts at a Krispy Kreme be boring? > > > > Only downside of the whole day happened there...had > > "Jiffy-Stand failure" > >Interesting - I thought that the Harley side stands locked >into the down >position when weight was placed on them. Glad to hear that >the damage was >minimal. ...they do. However, it sounds like it wasn't fully extended in it's locked positon. Seem it happen, it ain't hard to do. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 14:16:15 2004 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:16:49 -0400 To: Aki Damme , dc-cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Ride yesterday. At 01:52 PM 8/1/04 -0400, Aki Damme wrote: >At 01:42 PM 8/1/2004, you wrote: >>Interesting - I thought that the Harley side stands locked >>into the down position when weight was placed on them. > >...they do. However, it sounds like it wasn't fully >extended in it's locked positon. >Seem it happen, it ain't hard to do. Yeah, that's one of my top choices for how it happened...right after the ST spacial anomaly.... ;-) At least the money I spent on the engine and bag bars has paid off now. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 15:49:12 2004 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: Subject: RE: craigslist MCs Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:48:54 -0400 I also posted my CBR900RR on Craig's List. I got 2 bites in the first day (and the only 2 bites from CL). But, the bike ended up going to someone who saw my ad in the Washington Post. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 11:11 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: craigslist MCs > > For those looking for bikes to buy or sell, craigslist has > proven to be a good site. I posted my brother-in-law's F4i > Friday and it looks like he already has a buyer. > > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/ > > No reg required, just ad free posts. The site is a lot more > than just want ads. > > > _____________________________________ > Mike Troutman > mike@XXXXXX > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > '97 Honda VFR 750 > AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ > NMA - http://www.motorists.org > > "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." > - Jimmy Buffett > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 16:07:36 2004 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Subject: Re: craigslist MCs Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:07:55 -0400 Ditto. I got a bunch of calls when I listed a bike on Craigslist. We also had great success listing our rental unit on there. Craigslist is not immune from scammers, so the usual caveat emptor applies. I don't think I'll pay for expensive WashPost ads again. FWIW, Washington City Paper offers a free one-week listing. Paul in DC -- www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR [Sport-tour] - 96 KLR650 [MIA] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wesleyan Hsu" > I also posted my CBR900RR on Craig's List. I got 2 bites in the first day > (and the only 2 bites from CL). But, the bike ended up going to someone who > saw my ad in the Washington Post. > > Wes Hsu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] > > > > For those looking for bikes to buy or sell, craigslist has > > proven to be a good site. I posted my brother-in-law's F4i > > Friday and it looks like he already has a buyer. > > > > http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mcy/ > > > > No reg required, just ad free posts. The site is a lot more > > than just want ads. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 1 16:08:21 2004 Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 16:08:14 -0400 From: Robert To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: craigslist MCs I just posted my Jeep on CL, we'll see what responses I get. (One request for pics so far, elapsed time about an hour.) Robert On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:48:54 -0400, Wesleyan Hsu wrote: > I also posted my CBR900RR on Craig's List. I got 2 bites in the first day > (and the only 2 bites from CL). But, the bike ended up going to someone who > saw my ad in the Washington Post. > > Wes Hsu > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 09:24:26 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:24:18 -0400 From: Aaron Maurer To: DC Cycles Subject: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/07_04/07_21_04/fr_new_fines.html Be carefule out there -- this article reports that BRP rangers are now fining people (motorcyclists in particular) up to $500 on the spot, with the possibility of $$$$$$$ more in federal court. Once again, the actions of the few may cause punishment of the many. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 09:41:21 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 09:41:17 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 09:24 AM 8/2/2004, Aaron Maurer wrote: >Be carefule out there -- this article reports that BRP rangers are now >fining people (motorcyclists in particular) up to $500 on the spot, >with the possibility of $$$$$$$ more in federal court. Once again, >the actions of the few may cause punishment of the many. "Extremely risky driving could earn a $1,000 fine, as rangers can levy $500 for speeding and another $500 for the separate offense of reckless driving. In cases where $1,000 still doesn't seem like enough, rangers can continue to require the speeder to come to court, Francis said. Francis has taken a speeder to court and the judge handed down a $1,500 fine." $1500 for straight speeding and no accident? Ridiculous. I understand their motivation, but Holy Cow. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 09:42:52 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:42:45 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds To: DC Cycles AM reported: >http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/07_04/07_21_04/fr_new _fines.html > >Be carefule out there [Dave] Isn't this special... The federal judges were consistently )B“handing down $500 tickets for aggravated speeding,)B” said John Garrison, chief ranger for the Parkway. ***So this month, U.S. Chief District Court Judge Graham Mullen changed the law,*** allowing rangers to write speeders up a $500 ticket per offense on the spot. I may be a little rusty on my civics, but I don't remember that judges were permitted to change law... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 11:25:48 2004 Subject: Snippets and ramblings Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:25:32 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" Biker 1 - part of North American Motorcycle Club goes to Canada at 1000 Islands Border - their group is detained at border for two hours - two members one with reckless driving and one with a DUI have to pay a fine to enter the country - the group is strongly discouraged from continuing trip - this biker is a lawyer and on the trip back, the US Border guards stopped him for a chat and asked him if he was the lawyer attached to the group - Allegedly a Canadian Federal officer said he must not be a good lawyer to be hanging out with this bunch Biker 2 - same deal - reckless driving - traveling solo - had to pay fine to cross border - apparently these things stay in the system for 10 years Biker 3 (an un-named hypothetical dude that might be on the list) - expired tags on car - in a moment of dumb-assedness while returning bike to garage at 12:30 Am after dinner\movie with ex pulls out of parking lot with expensive sunglasses (returned from ex) On head - at i-section of glebe\Fairfax - of course the car behind said dumb ass is a county car - WHOOP ...WHOOP ..WHOOP - pulled over, questioned about time of evening\expired tags\what I was doing - LEO looked in small car and started chuckling at sight of two motorcycle\helmets, boogie board\work out gear, clothes for one week and books taking up entire space - LEO nicely let said dumb ass go with nothing other than a verbal warning to get that taken care of I really, truly believe that the long term consequences and costs of exceeding posted speed limits far outweigh the severity of the offense. To think that you could be denied vehicular access to another country because of a reckless driving charge..is for me utterly offensive. The costs involved and having an insurance company at best jack up the rates for years or at worst drop you is also offensive. I _completely disagree with the way that we have come to treat speeding. On my various jaunts this weekend I spotted no less than three unmarked cars in the district clicking away with photo radar devices. As far as insurance companies go, I have this fantasy that all motorcycle riders band together and agree to only go with the most reasonable and fair insurance rates and policies. Money talks and all the other insurance companies would change their tune. I have been informed that certain big name companies in DC don't even touch liter bikes. My response..screw you you will never get a dime of my money. Am tired of scattered thundershowers. How about two sunny days in a row? On a weekend nonetheless? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 11:36:27 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:37:09 -0400 To: Aaron Maurer , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 09:24 AM 8/2/04 -0400, Aaron Maurer wrote: >http://www.smokymountainnews.com/issues/07_04/07_21_04/fr_new_fines.html > >Be carefule out there -- this article reports that BRP rangers are now >fining people (motorcyclists in particular) up to $500 on the spot, >with the possibility of $$$$$$$ more in federal court. Once again, >the actions of the few may cause punishment of the many. Also the "thou shalt not" typical authority reaction, rather than some sort of compromise that might benefit everyone. For instance, how about picking a week when there's little tourist traffic there (i.e. *not* the fall! ;-) and holding a road race to let those who want to try the road at high speed get it out of their system legally? More safely too, as there would be emergency folks standing by in case of accidents. If these folks figure $150, or even $500 is just the "price of the experience", why not let them pay it, and run the course while it's closed to other traffic, so that only those choosing to take part are at risk, and everyone else can use the other 51 weeks of the year for sightseeing? Selling TV rights would cover the costs, and perhaps even provide some income to the park itself. Seems to work in Monaco, the Isle of Mann, and other places... -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 11:39:31 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:40:21 -0400 To: Troutman , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 09:41 AM 8/2/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >$1500 for straight speeding and no accident? Ridiculous. I understand >their motivation, but Holy Cow. The purported purpose of a fine is to inhibit the behavior. The fine needs to be high enough to "get their attention", and provide a disincentive to committing the infraction. Apparently $150 wasn't doing it in the extreme cases. Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist viewpoint that's so common these days. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 11:42:19 2004 From: To: Dave Yates , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:42:09 -0400 > I may be a little rusty on my civics, but I don't remember > that judges were permitted to change law... They aren't (directly). In the same vein, journalists aren't required to be completely factual. They publish a lot of opinion as fact. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 11:47:47 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:47:26 -0400 To: "Julian Halton" , "DC Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Snippets and ramblings At 11:25 AM 8/2/04 -0400, Julian Halton wrote: >Am tired of scattered thundershowers. How about two sunny days in a >row? On a weekend nonetheless? Well, up here in Maryland, with the exception of late yesterday afternoon, and late Saturday night, it was pretty nice. Saturday was gorgeous for riding once the overcast broke up (about 11am I think it was). Quit paying attention to the forecasts. Just look at the sky, and the 600 mile dopler display at www.weather.com, and go for a ride when it looks good. The weather folks are batting about 10 this year for forecasting accuracy. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 12:13:33 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:13:27 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Troutman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 11:40 AM 8/2/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so >that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket >money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a >fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist >viewpoint that's so common these days. How about $103,000 for speeding? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1759791.stm Not fair in any sense of the word. I know the state is frustrated by speeders, but to fine them over $1k when their behavior didn't result in an accident is highway robbery. If you want to affect change, threaten the loss of license for a year. I don't think the Feds have that power over the States though. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 12:34:26 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:34:23 -0400 From: Robert To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Must be a cold day in Hades, but I agree with Mike's comment. A $1,000 ticket (or even $500 for that matter) represents the sum total monthly take-home pay for many US citizens. Yet I have friends that drop that much on a new TV for the kids room, or a Xbox and a selection of games, and don't bat an eye. $500 tickets are pocket change to some, arguable whether or not they are any deterrant if there's no threat of license revocation. On the other hand, the folks on the lower end of the economic spectrum probably do pay a lot of attention to this sort of fine, which could explain the preponderance of older cars religiously obeying the posted speed limit despite the prevailing speed of traffic. Robert On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:13:27 -0400, Troutman wrote: > At 11:40 AM 8/2/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so > >that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket > >money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a > >fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist > >viewpoint that's so common these days. > > How about $103,000 for speeding? > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1759791.stm > > Not fair in any sense of the word. > > I know the state is frustrated by speeders, but to fine them over $1k when > their behavior didn't result in an accident is highway robbery. If you > want to affect change, threaten the loss of license for a year. I don't > think the Feds have that power over the States though. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 12:52:16 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:05:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so > that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket > money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a > fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist > viewpoint that's so common these days. Why should someone pay more because they have more money? What determines 'ability to pay'? Net worth? W2? That would be a joke. The more money you have, the better your ability to hide it. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 12:53:23 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:53:19 -0400 To: Robert From: Troutman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Cc: DC Cycles At 12:34 PM 8/2/2004, Robert wrote: >Must be a cold day in Hades, but I agree with Mike's (B) comment. When a Mike responds to another Mike, you have to tell me which one you generally disagree with; or I am forced to read your entire post. :-) I stole my wife's Thunderbird today since she stayed home sick. Otherwise it is rare that I get to drive it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles. One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose. One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle. - Sun Tzu From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 13:05:21 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:04:21 -0400 To: Troutman , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 12:13 PM 8/2/04 -0400, Troutman wrote: >At 11:40 AM 8/2/2004, Mike Bartman wrote: >>Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so >>that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket >>money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a >>fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist >>viewpoint that's so common these days. > >How about $103,000 for speeding? 14 days pay? For the sort of offense he committed (47 in a 31 zone)? Yeah, that's a bit steep. A day's pay maybe, but 14 would seem more appropriate for reckless driving or multiple simultaneous offenses (speeding through a red light or whatever). >I know the state is frustrated by speeders, but to fine them over $1k when >their behavior didn't result in an accident is highway robbery. I don't agree...the sort of speeding they are talking about (like triple the posted limit, or more) is very likely to kill someone, and that sort of thing should be seriously discouraged. That's why it's not legal to start with. Like Barretta used to say, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Now if they were hitting people like that for 40 in a 35, I'd say it was way out of line. An inadvertent offense with minimal increase in danger to the public is very different from a deliberate and severe offense with high danger levels, and should be treated differently in court. >If you >want to affect change, threaten the loss of license for a year. I don't >think the Feds have that power over the States though. Not directly...they certainly do through the "power of the purse". I.e. "If you want us to give you back some of the money we took from your citizens, do what we are asking." Maybe they could get the state to "cooperate" in prosecutions of serious offenses? Virginia can take your license for a year on a first offense for reckless driving...at least the last time I checked they could. Second offense was mandatory. Not sure what the deal is in Maryland, West (by God) Virginia, or elsewhere. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 13:15:12 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 13:15:06 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds At 01:05 PM 8/2/04 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Mike Bartman wrote: > >> Personally, I think the fine should be coupled to the ability to pay, so >> that poor folks aren't slammed, while rich folks cover it with pocket >> money. Maybe make fines a percentage of income or net worth, rather than a >> fixed dollar amount. It would be "more fair", at least in the socialist >> viewpoint that's so common these days. > >Why should someone pay more because they have more money? Because you have to hit them harder to get their attention? The purpose of a fine is (supposedly) to convince the person not to break the law in the first place. If a fine isn't large enough to have that effect, it needs to be adjusted, or some other penalty substituted (like jail time, community service, execution or whatever). >What determines 'ability to pay'? Net worth? W2? That would be a joke. >The more money you have, the better your ability to hide it. :-) That's a question that would have to be answered. Net worth is one way, taxable income is another, net income is yet another, and there are more options. Net spending the prior year? Value of the vehicle used in the offense? Some combination of all of these plus other factors? From the article about the Nokia guy it looks like Finland has settled on "days of income" as their factor for setting fines, and they seem to be pretty serious about it too. 14 days income for a fairly minor speeding offense is pretty steep, regardless of what your income level is. Unless this veers more sharply back toward motos in particular, I'm dropping out on-list. If you want to talk about it more I'll do so off-list. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 13:26:38 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 13:26:30 -0400 From: Robert To: Troutman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Cc: DC Cycles Sorry, Troutman; I actually wrote "Bartman" and then thought I'd strive for the informal note. D'oh! In response to Wayne (Edelen), I don't think anyone is arguing about "should," rather that the effectiveness of a fine as a traffic law obedience tool is compromised when it does not provide the same level of adverse impact to all ticketed parties. If a jurisdiction truly wanted to enforce the traffic laws, one way to put some teeth in the fines is to make them a percentage of one's income, as is done in Sweden. Defining income is something the IRS does fairly well, and tax loopholes can work both ways, as the gent in the news article found out to his dismay. I cannot believe the owner(s) of the two Fly Yellow Ferraris parked at Reston Town Center a couple of weekends ago really give much thought to paying a $500/1,000 speeding ticket. Just as the argument goes that traffic cameras only be used in areas with actual pedestrian traffic, if that's the reason cited for camera purchase; then one could also argue that traffic ticket fines be set as a percentage of income if the fine is to have any value as a deterrant. Conversely to the whole ticket issue, I think there's a real market for a speeder's pass; pay the $500 a year and get a waiver of speeds up to 20MPH over posted (details TBD...). That would address the issue of revenue generation, and could provide real incentive to attend driving schools, if such was a pre-requisite. Never happen, of course, as opponents would point out that this sort of agreement boils down to allowing rich people to speed. :-/ On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:53:19 -0400, Troutman wrote: > At 12:34 PM 8/2/2004, Robert wrote: > >Must be a cold day in Hades, but I agree with Mike's (B) comment. > > When a Mike responds to another Mike, you have to tell me which one you > generally disagree with; or I am forced to read your entire post. :-) > > I stole my wife's Thunderbird today since she stayed home sick. Otherwise > it is rare that I get to drive it. > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 13:49:00 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: flip-face helmet update: Vega Summit XPV To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I received my new Vega Summit XPV flip-face helmet from helmetshop.com this weekend. $129.99 + $8 shipping. It's a really great looking "candy orange" color -- metallic orange rust, with black trim. Just a small logo on the rear, and the top vent is shaped in the Vega stylized "V" shape. Good ventilation, washable liner, very easy visor change. It has a single release, centered on the chin bar, and inside same -- push in and up to release. It has a standard chin strap, with square instead of D-shaped rings. The flip-face clicks into the up position, and the visor has six very positive click stops, with a left hand tab only. Fit is very much like the Nolan N-100, Arrow/Jarow flip-face, and Arai Quantum/F. It's much quieter than the Nolan, a little quieter than the Arrow, about the same as the Arai. It really mutes the sound of the newly opened up stock cans on my 919. Negatives: a couple of sharp plastic edges beneath the padding (I now have a paper-like cut on one hand), and one tiny finish flaw (bubble, ~1/32"). Not bad for the price. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 14:20:59 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:19:41 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Robert , Troutman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Cc: DC Cycles -----Original Message----- From: Robert In response to Wayne (Edelen), I don't think anyone is arguing about "should," rather that the effectiveness of a fine as a traffic law obedience tool is compromised when it does not provide the same level of adverse impact to all ticketed parties. .... ---- For these reckless driving offenses on federal property, perhaps a driving ban on federal property could be imposed on the individual? It is *all* about enhancing safety, right?** It's interesting that these cases in NC are being heard in federal court. I thought around here traffic offenses on the parkways were considered violations of state (or DC) law and therefore eligible for points and eventually license suspension if you accumulate enough performance awards. Does the US Congress write speeding statutes? Gimer? Bueller? Anyone? **Scene observed on the GW Pkwy last week. USPP officer was "working" the southbound lanes (hiding behind a bush at the parkway maintenance facility, with radar gun), yet not a 1/4 mile away in the northbound lanes a crash had both lanes blocked, with a huge back-up that stretched all the way to Old Town. No law enforcement on the scene. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 15:39:09 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:38:59 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds To: DC Cycles Paul comments... >For these reckless driving offenses on federal property, perhaps a driving ban on federal property could be imposed on the individual? It is *all* about enhancing safety, right? ** > >It's interesting that these cases in NC are being heard in federal court. I thought around here traffic offenses on the parkways were considered violations of state (or DC) law and therefore eligible for points and eventually license suspension if you accumulate enough performance awards. Does the US Congress write speeding statutes? Gimer? Bueller? Anyone? [Dave] I'm not Gimer and I don't play one on this list. I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... But, I do know that the USPP are empowered to charge people with violations of state as well as federal law. When Narkey Terry was arrested (he of GW Pkway road rage murder infamy), he was also tried and convicted on a violation of VA 18.2- 308, carrying a concealed weapon; a state charge in federal court. > >**Scene observed on the GW Pkwy last week. USPP officer was "working" the southbound lanes (hiding behind a bush at the parkway maintenance facility, with radar gun), yet not a 1/4 mile away in the northbound lanes a crash had both lanes blocked, with a huge back-up that stretched all the way to Old Town. No law enforcement on the scene. [Dave] But Paul?! Don't you know that the US Park Police are under budgeted? I think they implemented a new slogan last month -- a twist on 'we can't be everywhere'... it's: USPP: We can't be anywhere. I can't imagine how long it took just to get accident handlers to the scene, the Connection newspaper had a story of some woman getting attacked on the GW Pkwy. bike trail and escaping. A passer by dialed up 911 to report. Apparently everyone (of the local PD's and USPP) was playing hot potato with the incident. Some 30 minutes later, a Fairfax cop rolled up... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 16:12:56 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:11:44 -0400 From: Skip To: Dave Yates CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] I think they implemented a new slogan > last month -- a twist on 'we can't be everywhere'... it's: > USPP: We can't be anywhere. I thought it was "Everywhere you don't want us to be" --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 16:14:24 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:14:37 -0400 To: Robert , Troutman From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Blue Ridge Parkway speeds Cc: DC Cycles At 01:26 PM 8/2/04 -0400, Robert wrote: >Sorry, Troutman; I actually wrote "Bartman" and then thought I'd >strive for the informal note. D'oh! I read it as me, because of the freezing comment... :-) >Conversely to the whole ticket issue, I think there's a real market >for a speeder's pass; pay the $500 a year and get a waiver of speeds >up to 20MPH over posted (details TBD...). The $500 would be nothing compared to what the insurance companies would put on anyone adopting that plan... I'd thought a while back about a related idea though...racing stripes. My understanding was that these were used by racers to distinguish between rookies and experienced drivers, so those on the track would know who to give extra room to. A similar idea for road use might be workable. If you go get extra training in handling your vehicle at high speeds, and in being able to tell when such was likely to be safe (the sort of thing they give cops at a minimum), you would be allowed a higher speed limit than those who didn't. As a mark of your status, you would have something about your vehicle that would show this to anyone, such as a special license plate, or body markings (like racing stripes), or maybe a flashing light in a color other than that used emergency vehicles (flashing green maybe?), so that other road users would be aware that you were coming up faster than typical, but not to panic. Gaining such extra privileges would encourage people to get the extra training (and show that it took through testing), and better-trained drivers ont he road is always a good thing for everyone. Of course if you are involved in an accident while taking advantage of your special status, your judgement will be shown to be faulty about when such things are safe, and you lose the privileges, perhaps permanently. This should provide some incentive to use the extra abilities judiciously. The privileges would apply only to one class of vehicle...whatever you trained and tested in. They wouldn't apply to everything you are licensed to drive. For instance, getting certified in sportscars wouldn't carry over to bikes, and vice versa, or to semis. You could certainly get certified in all classes if you want to, but you'd have to take training in each, and pass tests in each, as there are big differences in handling, problem areas, etc.. Nobody has ever jacknifed a sport bike, or high sided a semi that I'm aware of. ;-) Just an idea to kick around. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 16:43:11 2004 From: To: Subject: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:43:01 -0400 > Gaining such extra privileges would encourage people to get the extra > training (and show that it took through testing), and better-trained > drivers ont he road is always a good thing for everyone. The problem isn't the well-trained driver pushing the limit a bit. It's the marginally competent dolt who can't cope with an evolving situation. THey can't even cope with the relatively simple "Keep right except to pass" concept. How do you expect them to be able to do the requisite TSD (Time, Speed Distance) calculations on the fly? The skill level of the average driver in the USofA is abysmal. The lovely thing about vacationing in Europe is that I am surrounded by drivers that know what they're doing and behave appropriately. Also, there's not that "You're not going to get ahead of ME, you son of a bitch" attitude that seems to prevail in the States. A faster driver is percieved as a faster driver and not as an attack on ones masculinity. Yes, there are exceptions on both sides of the pond, but as a whole, I'd rather be driving in Europe. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 17:17:33 2004 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 17:17:07 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Julian Halton , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Snippets and ramblings -----Original Message----- From: Julian Halton ... Am tired of scattered thundershowers. How about two sunny days in a row? On a weekend nonetheless? ---------- Well, for the sake of variety, when hurricane/tropical storm/Nor'easter season starts, they won't be "scattered" any more; they'll settle in for a day or two at a stretch. ;-) [Looks like I'm getting wet on the way home in the JR Phoenix garb.] Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 20:00:00 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'mjordan812@XXXXXX '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 20:03:52 -0400 AMEN brother. Driving/riding in Europe and then coming back to the States is a *most* frustrating experience. Driving is so civilized in Europe, it makes US driving simply laughable. I swear, just the other day I said, "US drivers suck." And it is really true. Send me and my helmet back to Europe at ANYTIME. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mjordan812@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 8/2/2004 4:43 PM Subject: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding > Gaining such extra privileges would encourage people to get the extra > training (and show that it took through testing), and better-trained > drivers ont he road is always a good thing for everyone. The problem isn't the well-trained driver pushing the limit a bit. It's the marginally competent dolt who can't cope with an evolving situation. THey can't even cope with the relatively simple "Keep right except to pass" concept. How do you expect them to be able to do the requisite TSD (Time, Speed Distance) calculations on the fly? The skill level of the average driver in the USofA is abysmal. The lovely thing about vacationing in Europe is that I am surrounded by drivers that know what they're doing and behave appropriately. Also, there's not that "You're not going to get ahead of ME, you son of a bitch" attitude that seems to prevail in the States. A faster driver is percieved as a faster driver and not as an attack on ones masculinity. Yes, there are exceptions on both sides of the pond, but as a whole, I'd rather be driving in Europe. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 21:54:35 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:59:15 -0400 Subject: price drop: avon azaros (used) F=120/70x17; R=160/60x17 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" Price drop: $20 each. garcia oliver writes: >FS: used Avon Azaro tires av39 [front 120/70xZR17 azaro sport II] and >av36 [rear 160/60xZR17 azaro II]. No punctures/patches, looks like more >than half the tread remains. Lowest internet price is over $100 each. >Mid-DC, near the Zoo. $25 each. > >--garcia From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 21:58:03 2004 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:02:44 -0400 Subject: free: virago-750 rear wheel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" From mid-80s Virago. Includes brake parts and axle. Overheated once, but no apparent damage. Near Zoo. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 2 22:10:31 2004 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:09:55 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec799a725a2bab44b548d5ab7da0c6661835350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c LL commented: > AMEN brother. Driving/riding in Europe and then coming back to the States > is a *most* frustrating experience. Driving is so civilized in Europe, it > makes US driving simply laughable. [Dave] err... My albeit limited 8 days in Athens taught me that Greek pilots treat every mandatory stop like they're playing a game of "Pole Position". It was actually kind of comical as all the mopeds/scooters/motos slid to the front and as the light was about to turn, just like a drag race, you could hear the revs climb and - off to the races... I like to b!tch about our relatively low level of driving skill and courtesy - me included... But I don't remember the Greeks being any more civilized, respectful, or skillful at it. Just my few pieces of eight... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 07:14:50 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 04:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX No doubt, I was in France in January and people DO know how to drive! It really boggles my mind how bad people are here esp when yielding the right of way! Glenn --- mjordan812@XXXXXX wrote: > > The skill level of the average driver in the USofA > is abysmal. The lovely thing about vacationing in > Europe is that I am surrounded by drivers that know > what they're doing and behave appropriately. Also, > there's not that "You're not going to get ahead of > ME, you son of a bitch" attitude that seems to > prevail in the States. A faster driver is percieved > as a faster driver and not as an attack on ones > masculinity. > > Yes, there are exceptions on both sides of the pond, > but as a whole, I'd rather be driving in Europe. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 07:26:28 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 7:26:21 -0400 > [Dave] err... My albeit limited 8 days in Athens taught me that Greek > pilots treat every mandatory stop like they're playing a game of "Pole > Position". It was actually kind of comical as all the mopeds/scooters/motos > slid to the front and as the light was about to turn, just like a drag race, > you could hear the revs climb and - off to the races... I like to b!tch > about our relatively low level of driving skill and courtesy - me > included... But I don't remember the Greeks being any more civilized, > respectful, or skillful at it. It may well be - stay out of Naples or Rome, too. But try the northern Italians, Germans, Austrians, Swiss and French (non-parisian). Whole 'nother ballgame. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 08:19:18 2004 Subject: 1987 Honda VFR700F2 and 1998 Kawasaki ZX6E FOR SALE Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 08:19:06 -0400 From: "Ayers Nelson TSgt AFPCA/COMS" To: Cc: Coming out of lurker-dom to offer this fine sample of my wares: 1987 Honda VFR700F2 Pearl white with gold pin-stripes Seat cowl/cover with bump-pad in great shape, Factory seat with no marks/tears Extremely low miles! Just a hair over 8K, GT501 tires like new Very clean, Very good condition, garage-kept, adult-owned and maintained On the road, ready to ride, starts every time instantly, new battery Full matching white gas tank bra, Tank is beautiful with no imperfections at all Yosh single right-side exhaust (nice and loud!) Storz handlebars with risers Steel brake lines Have original pipes, clip-ons, owner's manual, tool set, and brake lines Selling due to military move out of state--can't take 3 bikes!! Keeping my 96VFR!! Never had any accidents or issues, Taught MSF courses on this bike, No track days on this bike! Beautiful bike, hate to see it go, real eye-turner and great running bike, but it's gotta go Asking $2800 The extremely minor imperfections: Small circular blemishes on windscreen from radar detector mount, does have slightly tinted shield The lower tiny piece of plastic trim immediately below the left side turn signal is MIA. (Doesn't affect indicator mount at all, and is mostly covered by the oval rubber grommet. So minor, never fixed it, there when purchased from original owner) Very small 1/2" ribbon of very light brown color above bumber/backrest pad on seat cowl, from brown leather bottom of my backpack sometimes rubbing against it (Haven't even tried to polish it out yet, but may do so if I make the time to get it done) ZX6E: 1998 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6E Dark forest green, beautiful color Full set GIVI hard bag system with 3 bags 1/2 tank bra BT020 tires On the road, daily commuter, fantastic fun and light bike Little over 11K miles, never on track days 2nd owner, bought from older Army guy who used it to commute to work Has $1700 worth of brand-new, factory, OEM replacement items due to low-speed low-side in gravel on curve in mountains Ask for extensive list of brand-new items, less than one month old! Damage was cosmetic only, Drove daily for a month afterwards Sale due to military move out of state. Asking $4300 Contact me off-list at nelson.ayers@XXXXXX Bikes located in Washington DC metro area. Can discuss delivery options since I have a trailer. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 08:51:27 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 05:51:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: mjordan812@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- mjordan812@XXXXXX wrote: > It may well be - stay out of Naples or Rome, too. > > But try the northern Italians, Germans, Austrians, Swiss and French > (non-parisian). Whole 'nother ballgame. Agreed. I drove 2500 miles in France this January, and 2800 miles the year before that in Germany, Austria, Lexembourg, and France -- what a pleasure! BTW, MJ, congrats on having your letter published in RoadRunner mag... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 09:03:57 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: mjordan812@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:07:54 -0400 Add English and Irish to that list too. Mike -----Original Message----- From: mjordan812@XXXXXX [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:26 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding > [Dave] err... My albeit limited 8 days in Athens taught me that Greek > pilots treat every mandatory stop like they're playing a game of "Pole > Position". It was actually kind of comical as all the > mopeds/scooters/motos slid to the front and as the light was about to > turn, just like a drag race, you could hear the revs climb and - off > to the races... I like to b!tch about our relatively low level of > driving skill and courtesy - me included... But I don't remember the > Greeks being any more civilized, respectful, or skillful at it. It may well be - stay out of Naples or Rome, too. But try the northern Italians, Germans, Austrians, Swiss and French (non-parisian). Whole 'nother ballgame. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 09:18:50 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:18:27 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Lister Lynch CC: mjordan812@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Lister Lynch wrote: > Add English and Irish to that list too. Having just driven over 500 miles in England while on Vacation, I have to say ... I really hate driving here now. The M1, for example ... 70mph speed limit, most people are driving 70-80mph. No one does anything even close to the stupid antics you find on the Beltway. Drivers are courteous, moving over to allow faster vehicles to go by, etc. Oh .. and people aren't offended by motorcycles. They even move over if they see one splitting lanes because traffic is backed up. Even in London and other cities ... it all just flows. I thought traffic circles were going to be a nightmare - they're not. They work. The only thing you really have to get used to (besides driving on the left) is that the streets are NARROW. But even with that people give way and you're able to go around parked/stopped vehicles, etc with very little problem. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 09:35:13 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:35:08 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX BR: >Having just driven over 500 miles in England while on >Vacation, I have to say ... I really hate driving here now. [Dave] No doubt the pavement might be a little blacker on the other side of the pond. Maybe the Euros don't take driving for granted as much, or treat it as a 'rite of passage', but they also don't have some of our unique woes. Let's not also forget the proliferation of Gatsos over there. Whenever we see something 'new' or different, or unusual, we tend to think of them 'in the favorable light'. I'm sure it was nice, and there were some really cool things there, but I'd much rather be here - traffic woes and all. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 09:51:03 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:50:54 -0400 From: Brian Roach To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding > Let's not also forget the proliferation of Gatsos over > there. Whenever we see something 'new' or different, or > unusual, we tend to think of them 'in the favorable light'. > I'm sure it was nice, and there were some really cool things > there, but I'd much rather be here - traffic woes and all. This is one of those weird areas. Enforcement techniques aren't the problem (i.e. speed cameras) IMO, unreasonable speed limits are. Unlike our "It's 25mph here so we can charge you the speeding tax" routine, I found speed limits in the UK reasonable, and maintaining the speed limit on some of the roads actually nerve racking (50mph on a 15ft wide, winding road with blind corners) ... so seeing the sign that said a speed camera (Gatso) was in the area really wasn't a problem. You do have to pay attention when in small towns ... but again, not a problem, and the limits were reasonable given the conditions. Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like saying security cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It doesn't make sense in my opinion - both serve the same purpose. I believe our speed limits are stupid, and are set for financial gain, not safety ... but the real solution is to get the limits changed, not complain about the enforcement of a law. - Roach -- http://www.speedwerks.com The one-stop shop for all your motorcycling needs! (302) 672 - 7223 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:43:58 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:43:49 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like saying >security cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It >doesn't make sense in my opinion - both serve the same >purpose. I believe our speed limits are stupid, and are set >for financial gain, not safety ... but the real >solution is to get the limits changed, not complain about >the enforcement of a law. [Dave] The beauty of this list is that we can all have our own opinions, and we will be flamed by the same posters for them :-) The cameras used to fine speeders are not the same, or analogous to cameras used as evidence against a thief. A speeder is not necessarily causing harm, mayhem or inciting lawlessness by driving above the posted speed limit which may be right or wrong, and which given the totality of the circumstance may be prudent to the conditions; such as, in a pack of traffic. A thief is taking material property belogning to another without paying for it. While I would agree that speed limits are generally set with monetary goals in mind here, that in and of itself does not create an act of evil intent. Posting speed cameras there, however, knowing the area will generate revenue is evil. Otherwise making the area a speed trap is as well. Ideally, it may be more or most correct to "get the limits changed" but in practicality, that is not going to happen since many governments depend on this revenue cow to sustain themselves, and their cushy lifestyles. So we're not left with much else, but to resist 'vigorous enforcement' efforts. Anybody see USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2004-08-03- cities.htm no real mention of motos... too bad. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:45:30 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:45:19 EDT Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Funny that this should all be brought up now. On another list I'm on, I'm plotting a 2-3 week Scotland/Ireland/England/Whateverland/NeverNeverLand trip next year and was talking about renting a bike while there. Sounds like I won't have any problems getting around. I asked the other list members from across the pond when would be a good time of year to go and got back June, July and September. Input Mr. Roach? ;-) How long were you guys there? Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 9:18:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: Lister Lynch wrote: > Add English and Irish to that list too. Having just driven over 500 miles in England while on Vacation, I have to say ... I really hate driving here now. The M1, for example ... 70mph speed limit, most people are driving 70-80mph. No one does anything even close to the stupid antics you find on the Beltway. Drivers are courteous, moving over to allow faster vehicles to go by, etc. Oh .. and people aren't offended by motorcycles. They even move over if they see one splitting lanes because traffic is backed up. Even in London and other cities ... it all just flows. I thought traffic circles were going to be a nightmare - they're not. They work. The only thing you really have to get used to (besides driving on the left) is that the streets are NARROW. But even with that people give way and you're able to go around parked/stopped vehicles, etc with very little problem. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:50:41 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Used Motorcycles and Titles... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX What is the best way to protect myself when purchasing a motorcycle that still has the title held by the financing company? In other there is a lean on the bike's title. Thanks, Ryan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:58:58 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 10:58:59 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding > >Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like saying > >security cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It > >doesn't make sense in my opinion - both serve the same > >purpose. I believe our speed limits are stupid, and are set > >for financial gain, not safety ... but the real > >solution is to get the limits changed, not complain about > >the enforcement of a law. Theft is a moral crime, as is murder and countless others. Speeding is not. When I get a ticket, I go to court and fight it, then pay the fine if I am convicted. I don't whine about it, unless it was unfair (like the one I got in the Summersville, WV speedtrap a few years ago). If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 AMA - http://www.amadirectlink.com/ NMA - http://www.motorists.org "I'd rather die while I'm living, then live while I'm dead." - Jimmy Buffett From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:59:02 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:58:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX By using an escrow company. Glenn --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > What is the best way to protect myself when > purchasing > a motorcycle that still has the title held by the > financing company? In other there is a lean on the > bike's title. > > Thanks, > > Ryan > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 10:59:27 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:59:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles (correction).. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In other there is a lean on the > bike's title. Oppps, i meant to say: "In other words, there is a lean on the bike's title" That'd make more sense. Thanks Ryan --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > What is the best way to protect myself when > purchasing > a motorcycle that still has the title held by the > financing company? In other there is a lean on the > bike's title. > > Thanks, > > Ryan > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 11:55:10 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:54:56 -0400 Subject: Front/rear stand Does anyone have a "universal" front and/or rear stand (I need both) thjat I could borrow to work on my Seca II? I may want to borrow it for 1-2 weeks depending on how my fixes go. Also, does anyone know of a "combo" front/rear stand? I noticed yesterday that one fork tube seal is shot and fork oil is running out... not a good situation. Also, I need to replace the sprockets and drive chain. Thanks, -Sean WAR-shington, DC '92 "Are these tubes s'posed to OOOOZE?" Seca II From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:01:46 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:01:16 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding -----Original Message----- From: Troutman > >Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like saying > >security cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It > >doesn't make sense in my opinion - both serve the same > >purpose. I believe our speed limits are stupid, and are set > >for financial gain, not safety ... but the real > >solution is to get the limits changed, not complain about > >the enforcement of a law. Theft is a moral crime, as is murder and countless others. Speeding is not. When I get a ticket, I go to court and fight it, then pay the fine if I am convicted. I don't whine about it, unless it was unfair (like the one I got in the Summersville, WV speedtrap a few years ago). If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. --------- It would seem, that for the foreseeable future, upward movement of speed limits is not going to happen. Montana found that its "reasonable and prudent" daytime speed limit was unenforceable and didn't pass judicial muster. Faced with the choice of no speed limit or a fixed numerical limit, Montana chose the latter. The safety mavens did too good a job of imprinting the idea that "speed kills." Congress did its part by repealing the national standard, leaving states free to increase their limits. Many, like VA, have chosen not to after the demise of the 65-mph standard. (Many did after the repeal of the 55-mph standard. I still remember the happy day when the 55-mph signs came down on the freeways in Ohio.) It does seem a little ridiculous that, legally speaking, one can only drive/ride at a maximum of 75 mph, coast to coast. Besides, "due process" has a long and honorable history in the USA. If "they" are going to write these tickets, "they" have the responsibility to prove their case. Citizens have a right to review by a supposed impartial third party. It's all part of the game of keeping the ticket writers (generally) honest. Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:06:18 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:09:41 -0400 Department store photos = evidence in a trial, with presumption of innocence. Speed (or red-light) photos = fine without a trial (implied presumption of guilt). --jon ----- "Brian Roach" wrote: > Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like saying security > cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It doesn't make sense in my > opinion - both serve the same purpose. I believe our speed limits are > stupid, and are set for financial gain, not safety ... but the real > solution is to get the limits changed, not complain about the > enforcement of a law. > > - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:55:21 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:55:06 EDT Subject: I want one! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Language: en Found on .Aerostich - Motorcycle Riders Gear and Clothing Catalog. At http://www.aerostich.com/riderwearhouse.store EMP Cell Phone Eliminator Military anti-missile system technology. We bought the Electro Magnetic Pulse technology and had a leading lab downsize the design so that the same technology used to bring down a missile can now be yours to )B‘cook’ the circuitry in a cell phone. One touch of a button sends out a powerful elecro-magnetic pulse wave that fries the circuitry in a cell phone instantly, forcing the errant four wheeler)B’s (car’s) occupant to concentrate on more mundane duties, like driving. Leaves them completely baffled. Utterly undetectable. Requires a flux capacitor, walnut, and alternator output of 600 watts. Special order only. Range is up to 30 feet. From Stubbco. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:56:27 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:09:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Front/rear stand On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > Does anyone have a "universal" front and/or rear stand (I need both) > thjat I could borrow to work on my Seca II? I may want to borrow it for > 1-2 weeks depending on how my fixes go. > > Also, does anyone know of a "combo" front/rear stand? I have the $99 Handy stand combo. I assume they'd work for you and you're more than welcome to them... but I'm in Frederick (and another list member has my front stand) :-) I can fix the latter, you'd have to arrange pickup/drop off. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:58:11 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles... To: Ryan Santoso , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > What is the best way to protect myself when purchasing > a motorcycle that still has the title held by the > financing company? In other there is a lean on the > bike's title. short version: 1. execute a written agreement outlining each party's obligations, representations, warranties and indemnities 2. obtain the exact creditor payoff 3. pay the creditor with a portion of the purchase money and request a certificate of satisfaction/release 4. pay the seller the difference __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:58:55 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 09:58:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles (correction).. To: Ryan Santoso , dc-cycles@XXXXXX a "lien" would make even more sense ;) --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > In other there is a lean on the > > bike's title. > > > Oppps, i meant to say: > > "In other words, there is a lean on the bike's title" > > That'd make more sense. > > Thanks > > Ryan > > --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > > > > > What is the best way to protect myself when > > purchasing > > a motorcycle that still has the title held by the > > financing company? In other there is a lean on the > > bike's title. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ryan > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 12:59:45 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 12:59:36 -0400 > BTW, MJ, congrats on having your letter published in RoadRunner mag... When the latest copy came in, I started reading the letters, and thought that I had to hook up with this guy - then I realized that I was reading my own letter =-O No wonder I was impressed ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:00:27 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:00:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX did law school start already? ;) --- Jon Strang wrote: > Department store photos = evidence in a trial, with > presumption of > innocence. > Speed (or red-light) photos = fine without a trial > (implied presumption of > guilt). > > --jon > > ----- "Brian Roach" wrote: > > > Saying that speed cameras should be illegal is like > saying security > > cameras in retail stores should be illegal. It doesn't > make sense in my > > opinion - both serve the same purpose. I believe our > speed limits are > > stupid, and are set for financial gain, not safety ... > but the real > > solution is to get the limits changed, not complain > about the > > enforcement of a law. > > > > - Roach > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:00:49 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:00:33 EDT Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles (correction).. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Naaahhhhh.........if the bike can lean, why not the title? ;-) Scooter (slightly askew %-) ) In a message dated 8/3/2004 12:59:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: a "lien" would make even more sense ;) --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > In other there is a lean on the > > bike's title. > > > Oppps, i meant to say: > > "In other words, there is a lean on the bike's title" > > That'd make more sense. > > Thanks > > Ryan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:02:57 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:02:49 -0400 $99 for both? Where'd you get them? How do you like them? >From: Wayne Edelen >To: >Subject: Re: Front/rear stand >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:09:53 -0400 (EDT) > >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > > > Does anyone have a "universal" front and/or rear stand (I need both) > > thjat I could borrow to work on my Seca II? I may want to borrow it for > > 1-2 weeks depending on how my fixes go. > > > > Also, does anyone know of a "combo" front/rear stand? > >I have the $99 Handy stand combo. I assume they'd work for you and you're >more than welcome to them... but I'm in Frederick (and another list member >has my front stand) :-) I can fix the latter, you'd have to arrange >pickup/drop off. > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org > _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page )B FREE download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:03:53 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:03:46 -0400 > I thought traffic circles were going to be a nightmare - > they're not. They work. Roundabouts are lovely, Mr. Roach. Pity that we colonials have to put stop signs at the entrance of the circle. Destroys the rationale behind the concept. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:08:49 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:08:40 -0400 > Let's not also forget the proliferation of Gatsos over > there. I'll take that in return for the almost total lack of gravel on the roads. It's never a concern (except in France *) that you're going to hit a patch of gravel. I don't know if they sweep it off the road or just manage to keep their cars on the pavement, the end result is the same. Michael J. * The French use micro gravel to patch secondary roads. They put up signs saying that the gravel is there, but it's still a road full of BBs. Especially fun on decending hairpin turns. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:10:45 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: rich hall Cc: Subject: Re: Front/rear stand On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > $99 for both? Where'd you get them? How do you like them? Yes, $99 for both. I like 'em. http://www.handyindustries.com/standpackages.asp And the rear stand in use - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/071103/P0002840.jpg -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:12:07 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Euro Trip was - Demonstrated Proficiency Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:00:25 -0400 http://www.dcsportbikes.com/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=4&TopicID=10039&PagePosition=1&showActive=1&ReturnPage=Active Jenn the biker was on this list for a little while. She's replaced the purple Honda Shadow w/ a blue SVS. I'm sure she'd be willing to give you advice. >From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:45:19 EDT > >Funny that this should all be brought up now. On another list I'm on, I'm >plotting a 2-3 week Scotland/Ireland/England/Whateverland/NeverNeverLand >trip >next year and was talking about renting a bike while there. Sounds like I >won't have any problems getting around. I asked the other list members >from >across the pond when would be a good time of year to go and got back June, >July >and September. Input Mr. Roach? ;-) How long were you guys there? > >Scooter _________________________________________________________________ Don)Bt just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:15:05 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:14:56 -0400 > I asked the other list members from > across the pond when would be a good time of year to go and got back June, July > and September. Early June can be iffy - I suffered this year at altitude. Long trip report on request. Later in June and all of July is usually pretty good. Europe goes on vacation in August - great weather, but high prices and low availability. The weather's still pretty good in September, and the crowds are back to work. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:21:42 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:21:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Santoso Subject: Re: Used Motorcycles and Titles (correction).. To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Not if its a Harley...then, it wouldn't "lean"...:) Just kidding...don't wanna ruffle up the feathers of the H-D folks... Ryan --- ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Naaahhhhh.........if the bike can lean, why not the > title? ;-) > > Scooter (slightly askew %-) ) > > In a message dated 8/3/2004 12:59:12 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > a "lien" would make even more sense ;) > > > --- Ryan Santoso wrote: > > > > > In other there is a lean on the > > > bike's title. > > > > > > Oppps, i meant to say: > > > > "In other words, there is a lean on the bike's > title" > > > > That'd make more sense. > > > > Thanks > > > > Ryan > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:23:05 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:22:52 -0400 I do most of my work on the bike at my folks, they have a garage and more tools. But I do some stuff at my place. Is there a way to carry stand(s) on the bike? >From: Wayne Edelen >To: rich hall >CC: >Subject: Re: Front/rear stand >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) > >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > > > $99 for both? Where'd you get them? How do you like them? > >Yes, $99 for both. I like 'em. > >http://www.handyindustries.com/standpackages.asp > >And the rear stand in use - >http://www.blueblackbusa.org/071103/P0002840.jpg > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:26:17 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:39:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Front/rear stand On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > I do most of my work on the bike at my folks, they have a garage and more > tools. But I do some stuff at my place. Is there a way to carry stand(s) > on the bike? I don't think so. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:34:28 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:34:23 -0400 From: Robert To: rich hall Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX FWIW, I carried a Pit Bull rear stand from Chantilly to my garage in Manassas with no mishaps. Put the legs of the stand around my waist, the floor section extending up my back, and held it on with a belt. Your mileage may seriously vary, but for a short trip it can be done. I would not consider doing this as a regular routine, however. Robert On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:22:52 -0400, rich hall wrote: > I do most of my work on the bike at my folks, they have a garage and more > tools. But I do some stuff at my place. Is there a way to carry stand(s) > on the bike? > > >From: Wayne Edelen > >To: rich hall > >CC: > >Subject: Re: Front/rear stand > >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:24:12 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > > > > > $99 for both? Where'd you get them? How do you like them? > > > >Yes, $99 for both. I like 'em. > > > >http://www.handyindustries.com/standpackages.asp > > > >And the rear stand in use - > >http://www.blueblackbusa.org/071103/P0002840.jpg > > > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee)B > Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:47:54 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:46:40 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Front/rear stand I know of a guy who carried 2x10's on his bike. you've just gotta be committed. Wayne Edelen wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > > > I do most of my work on the bike at my folks, they have a garage and more > > tools. But I do some stuff at my place. Is there a way to carry stand(s) > > on the bike? > > I don't think so. > > -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 13:53:00 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:06:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Front/rear stand On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Skip wrote: > I know of a guy who carried 2x10's on his bike. you've just gotta be > committed. Maybe I should rephrase my statement... No, I would not carry them on the bike. They would seriously fuck you up if you wrecked with them wrapped around your torso or strapped anywhere else on your person. I can't see them easily/safely fitting around the passenger seat or in a saddlebag, due to their width (obviously, the rear stand is wider than the swingarm). If you want to carry them, it is possible and probably wouldn't be too difficult. Better? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 14:25:31 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 14:25:20 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Skip Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yeah, and I've done the "hula hoop" thing with tires. (No jokes about carrying spare tires around the middle, please.) I have a PitBull front stem stand, in answer to Sean. -----Original Message----- From: Skip I know of a guy who carried 2x10's on his bike. you've just gotta be committed. --------- Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 14:26:51 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:26:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Funny you mention those stands.... my buddy was considering them too but the front stand esp looks cheap and this article helps back up my thoughts: http://forums.cbrworld.net/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=90799 spend the money on Pitbulls, I think more then enough people on this list will agree. Glenn --- rich hall wrote: > $99 for both? Where'd you get them? How do you > like them? > > >From: Wayne Edelen > >To: > >Subject: Re: Front/rear stand > >Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:09:53 -0400 (EDT) > > > >On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Sean Steele wrote: > > > > > Does anyone have a "universal" front and/or rear > stand (I need both) > > > thjat I could borrow to work on my Seca II? I > may want to borrow it for > > > 1-2 weeks depending on how my fixes go. > > > > > > Also, does anyone know of a "combo" front/rear > stand? > > > >I have the $99 Handy stand combo. I assume they'd > work for you and you're > >more than welcome to them... but I'm in Frederick > (and another list member > >has my front stand) :-) I can fix the latter, > you'd have to arrange > >pickup/drop off. > > > >-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail > from any Web page )B FREE > download! > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 15:09:58 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:09:46 EDT Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was thinking either the first 2-3 weeks in July or the last 2-3 weeks in July. Make it a birthday present/trip to myself. :-) All depends on if I want to be outta the country for July 4th or not. My b-day is the 7th. Got three couch invites and two potential loaner bikes lined up already. ;-) This is gonna be a fun trip. hehe Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 1:15:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > I asked the other list members from > across the pond when would be a good time of year to go and got back June, July > and September. Early June can be iffy - I suffered this year at altitude. Long trip report on request. Later in June and all of July is usually pretty good. Europe goes on vacation in August - great weather, but high prices and low availability. The weather's still pretty good in September, and the crowds are back to work. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 15:11:32 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:11:18 EDT Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX To which asylum? %-) Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 1:48:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: I know of a guy who carried 2x10's on his bike. you've just gotta be committed. Wayne Edelen wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, rich hall wrote: > > > I do most of my work on the bike at my folks, they have a garage and more > > tools. But I do some stuff at my place. Is there a way to carry stand(s) > > on the bike? > > I don't think so. > > -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 15:14:14 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Front/rear stand On Tue, 3 Aug 2004, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Funny you mention those stands.... my buddy was > considering them too but the front stand esp looks > cheap and this article helps back up my thoughts: > > http://forums.cbrworld.net/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=90799 > > spend the money on Pitbulls, I think more then enough > people on this list will agree. I would like to get a Pitbull stemstand, but other than that the Handy stands work well. I've had mine for 2 yrs, using it on a fairly large bike, no issues. I know of at least 20 people using them without problems, all with Hayabusas. 1 persons carelessness/stupidity doesn't make the stand unstable. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 15:35:22 2004 From: Lister Lynch To: "'ScooterFZR@XXXXXX '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:39:37 -0400 I rented a bike in London for 2 weeks there and it was great. If you are going over to Ireland you'll need to rent a shaftie, per the laws for crossing into another country. I rented the Yamaha Diversion 900 which was fairly gutless for a 900 (was 2-up tho) but came with the full Givi setup for free. Maybe the Deauville might be ok for 1 person. But no problems getting around, parking on sidewalks, lanesplitting at speed on a 2 lane road with traffic in both directions, lanesplitting on the motorway at speed, having special moto parking right up front of everything, being the first at every light, and just in general feeling like a hooligan but being perfectly legal. People use their directionals to signal that they want to pass or that you can pass them. If you are looking like you want to overtake a car on a 2 lane, oncoming traffic will flash you to signal that they see you want to go, and that they are going to make room for you to squeeze through. 3 abreast. It's great. And I'll echo Roach's comments about the speed limits being reasonable. You move along pretty good as it is. You'll also find that some of the delivery drivers in these little delivery box(truck)-car things go hauling down the lanes with big hedgerows, flying through blind corners. Following them is fun for a bit to see how fast they stuff them into the corners. Everybody sticks to their side of the road. Mike -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 8/3/2004 10:45 AM Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Funny that this should all be brought up now. On another list I'm on, I'm plotting a 2-3 week Scotland/Ireland/England/Whateverland/NeverNeverLand trip next year and was talking about renting a bike while there. Sounds like I won't have any problems getting around. I asked the other list members from across the pond when would be a good time of year to go and got back June, July and September. Input Mr. Roach? ;-) How long were you guys there? Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 9:18:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, roach@XXXXXX writes: Lister Lynch wrote: > Add English and Irish to that list too. Having just driven over 500 miles in England while on Vacation, I have to say ... I really hate driving here now. The M1, for example ... 70mph speed limit, most people are driving 70-80mph. No one does anything even close to the stupid antics you find on the Beltway. Drivers are courteous, moving over to allow faster vehicles to go by, etc. Oh .. and people aren't offended by motorcycles. They even move over if they see one splitting lanes because traffic is backed up. Even in London and other cities ... it all just flows. I thought traffic circles were going to be a nightmare - they're not. They work. The only thing you really have to get used to (besides driving on the left) is that the streets are NARROW. But even with that people give way and you're able to go around parked/stopped vehicles, etc with very little problem. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:09:51 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:09:02 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Front/rear stand > > I would like to get a Pitbull stemstand, but other than that the Handy > stands work well. I've had mine for 2 yrs, using it on a fairly large > bike, no issues. I know of at least 20 people using them without > problems, all with Hayabusas. > > 1 persons carelessness/stupidity doesn't make the stand unstable. > I have a set too. They work great on all the bikes I've tried so far, including my Hayabusa! Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:17:35 2004 From: To: Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:17:28 -0400 > I was thinking either the first 2-3 weeks in July or the last 2-3 weeks in > July. Make it a birthday present/trip to myself. :-) All depends on if I > want to be outta the country for July 4th or not. My b-day is the 7th. Got > three couch invites and two potential loaner bikes lined up already. ;-) This > is gonna be a fun trip. hehe Go for it! You have the two most expensive parts taken care of - bike rental and lodging. My past three trips have broken out to: Bike rental: 49% Airfare: 17% Lodging/eats: 22% Fuel & misc: 12% 2002 ran me about $3,200 door to door 2003 & 04 ran about $4,000 (Euro went from $.95 to $1.20). This was for two weeks plus a couple of days. If I had a free bike and place to crash, I'd be enroute right now. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:22:53 2004 From: To: Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:22:44 -0400 > I rented a bike in London for 2 weeks there and it was great. If you are > going over to Ireland you'll need to rent a shaftie, per the laws for > crossing into another country. ???? What laws? most bikes over there are chain drive and they don't seem to have troubles crossing borders. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:28:07 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:27:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- dan wrote: > > > > I would like to get a Pitbull stemstand, but other than > that the Handy > > stands work well. I've had mine for 2 yrs, using it on > a fairly large > > bike, no issues. I know of at least 20 people using > them without > > problems, all with Hayabusas. > > > > 1 persons carelessness/stupidity doesn't make the stand > unstable. > > > > I have a set too. They work great on all the bikes I've > tried so far, > including my Hayabusa! to my knowledge, every time the handy stands matter has come up, the situation involved an end user f-up. that tells me that the handy design allows too much idiot, er, human input (something all but eliminated by the pitbull models). -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:52:15 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 13:52:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "pltrgyst@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Lister Lynch wrote: > And I'll echo Roach's comments about the speed limits being reasonable. You > move along pretty good as it is. You'll also find that some of the delivery > drivers in these little delivery box(truck)-car things go hauling down the > lanes with big hedgerows, flying through blind corners. Following them is > fun for a bit to see how fast they stuff them into the corners. Everybody > sticks to their side of the road. Which is not necessarily to say that you can just sit back and be oblivious, of course. 8;) Some very narrow roads, like the A470 and even the A5 across Wales, are also the primary trucking routes, so you definitely have to watch out for oncoming big boys who take up the entire roadway going around the tight turns. Makes life interesting... -- Larry __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 16:52:16 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:52:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: wreck 395 and wash blvd? Just got a 2nd hand report of a motorcycle wreck at 395 near Washington Blvd in Arlington. Sounds like closed roads. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 17:01:15 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:01:01 EDT Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yep. I figured those would be the two most expensive parts of the trip. The two bikes loans have also volunteered to take time off to play tour guide. I'd love to go right now but, I figured I would save up my vacation time and carry it over for next year. I'll have two weeks left from this year to carry over and get another three to four weeks next year. Plenty of time to take a nice long trip. ;-) Anyone wanna join me? :-) Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 4:17:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > I was thinking either the first 2-3 weeks in July or the last 2-3 weeks in > July. Make it a birthday present/trip to myself. :-) All depends on if I > want to be outta the country for July 4th or not. My b-day is the 7th. Got > three couch invites and two potential loaner bikes lined up already. ;-) This > is gonna be a fun trip. hehe Go for it! You have the two most expensive parts taken care of - bike rental and lodging. My past three trips have broken out to: Bike rental: 49% Airfare: 17% Lodging/eats: 22% Fuel & misc: 12% 2002 ran me about $3,200 door to door 2003 & 04 ran about $4,000 (Euro went from $.95 to $1.20). This was for two weeks plus a couple of days. If I had a free bike and place to crash, I'd be enroute right now. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 17:03:51 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:03:34 EDT Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Not sure about the laws but, it was listed on the rental bikes sites that I was looking at about needing to be on a shaftie to cross into Ireland. Scotland and England are OK. Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 4:23:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjordan812@XXXXXX writes: > I rented a bike in London for 2 weeks there and it was great. If you are > going over to Ireland you'll need to rent a shaftie, per the laws for > crossing into another country. ???? What laws? most bikes over there are chain drive and they don't seem to have troubles crossing borders. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 17:29:05 2004 Subject: Online racing? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 17:29:05 -0400 From: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" To: Hey all, I'm doing a lot of office hours right now and much of it is waiting on servers. I can think of much better ways to spend my time... like watching some decent AMA racing or something like that. Does anyone know of any decent online sites to watch any racing coverage? Live or pre-recorded, doesn't really matter to me. Any racing is better than watching flashing lights all day. --smthng '01 Yamaha FZ1, Bagster tank cover and bag, Cortech Sport saddle and seat bags... Going in for surgery this week - Yosh Titanium and Ivan's jet kit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 17:39:07 2004 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 17:38:33 -0400 From: Laura Roach To: "Jonathan W. Kalmes" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Online racing? Jonathan W. Kalmes wrote: > Does anyone >know of any decent online sites to watch any racing coverage? Live or >pre-recorded, doesn't really matter to me. Any racing is better than >watching flashing lights all day. > > > www.motogp.com Awesome coverage of qualifying, racing, and interviews. Very cool. Laura From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 19:15:03 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:14:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Ray Subject: Accident 7-16-04 Follow-Up To: DC Cycles Well, the insurance company is getting the bike (Bandit 1200S) fixed. Looks like about $3600 in damage. Mostly to the right side, but includes the tank, handlebars, both sides of the faring, the right engine cover, muffler, and windscreen. It looks like the repair shop (Cycle Center in Roanoke) is willing to work with me. In the spirit of "Don't replace, upgrade!" I'm going to have them get a Holeshot Slip-On (17" Street Core, Black), NRC engine covers, and the higher Suzuki touring windscreen. Still don't know how long it will take me to get back on the bike, but when I do, the bike will be ready. Me? I'm doing better as well. Getting more pain-free movement from my left arm, and I'm getting by with fewer pain pills. Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 21:02:39 2004 From: "W.S." To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:02:11 -0400 FWIW a Pepboys special sale ad in Friday's 7/30 Post (p.D10) showed several jacks (one moto) and hoists. (Also pocket bikes, etc. etc.) Perhaps for a quick and dirty solution? Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > My own petard hoists quite well. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 21:03:11 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:58:45 -0400 Subject: Kwitcher Whining From: Bob McKeithen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX For crying out loud ! Almost an entire digest full of whining about having to follow the laws which everybody knows. It is not as if getting a ticket should be any surprise. Get over it and go for a ride, check your tire pressure, change the oil, argue about which bike is the beans this week-- annnnnnnnything. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 3 23:53:07 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:52:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > LL commented: > > AMEN brother. Driving/riding in Europe and then coming back to the > States > > is a *most* frustrating experience. Driving is so civilized in > Europe, it > > makes US driving simply laughable. > > [Dave] err... My albeit limited 8 days in Athens taught me that Greek > pilots treat every mandatory stop like they're playing a game of "Pole > Position". It was actually kind of comical as all the > mopeds/scooters/motos > slid to the front and as the light was about to turn, just like a drag > race, > you could hear the revs climb and - off to the races... I like to b!tch > about our relatively low level of driving skill and courtesy - me > included... But I don't remember the Greeks being any more civilized, > respectful, or skillful at it. Actually with my 30 days in Athens, none of it driving, I believe the difference is that they're actively watching out for everyone else and there's no "me first, fsck the rest of you" attitude. There's cursing now and then but it's immediately forgotten. No grudges and no chasing someone down the street. See http://www.livejournal.com/users/va_bofh/31900.html for my opinion of the drivers in Athens. > > Just my few pieces of eight... > Dave > > Carl ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 02 Suzuki GSX1300RX (Hayabusa) 95 Suzuki GSX-R750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 00:04:37 2004 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:04:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carl Schelin Subject: RE: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I even saw a UPS driver in the trademarked brown shorts on a scooter also painted brown. I laughed at that sight :-) Carl --- Lister Lynch wrote: > I rented a bike in London for 2 weeks there and it was great. If you > are > going over to Ireland you'll need to rent a shaftie, per the laws for ===== 02 Harley FXSTI 02 Suzuki GSX1300RX (Hayabusa) 95 Suzuki GSX-R750W 76 Honda Chopper (in progress) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 00:09:01 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 00:08:47 -0400 From: Brian Roach CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Paul Wilson wrote: > Theft is a moral crime, as is murder and countless others. > Speeding is not. Nifty ... which one isn't a violation of the law? Again, I just don't see what possible reason people have to complain about a method of upholding a law (in this case, traffic law). There is no difference between getting a ticket from a cop, or a camera. In either case, you protest it by going to court. I would rather have strict enforcement of reasonable speed limits (as is the case in the UK) any day of the week than selective enforcement of artificially low speed limits. Case in point: Our DC-Cycles run-in with the po-dunk sheriff in loudon county a few years ago. Officer Obie writes nine *reckless driving* tickets to people whom he never saw while in motion (he "pulled us over" after we'd been sitting at the side of the road for 2 - 3 minutes because someone said there was "a group of bikes being reckless in the area"), never mind the fact that the worst offense we committed was exceeding the posted limit by 5 - 10 mph. I'd rather a camera would have snapped a picture of me doing nothing, or at worst 5 mph over the limit ... would have saved me a whole lot of time and money. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 07:08:56 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 04:08:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX How does the front stand lift the bike? It looks like a stand I once had that lifts the front of the bike with a bolt or nub on each side of the top of the stand. Is this one that way? If so I scratched the shit out of my forks with a stand like this. The pitbull doesn't use the holes in the bottom of the forks to lift the bike and there is never any metal to metal contact. I still think its worth the extra money for the Pitbull. Glenn --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > > 1 persons carelessness/stupidity doesn't make the > stand unstable. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 07:22:37 2004 From: Daniel To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Front/rear stand Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 07:21:31 -0400 I use a rear stand, and a frame that was made for a swing, and ratchet my front end into the air. A friend of mine was the originator of this idea/tool, and gave it to me when he moved. Another friend I know has ratchet straps hooked into the roof of his garage.. either way same thing, and you gotta be careful using it. now that i think about it, i'm glad i have 2 rear wheel stands... also have a motorcycle jack.. that comes in handy. they are like 69 bux now. or maybe 59? check autozone and pep boys.. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 07:26:28 2004 From: To: Subject: The Loudoun 9 - was: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 7:26:20 -0400 > because someone said there was "a group of bikes being reckless... Unfortunately, that "someone" was the Chief of Police in Purcellville. Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:03:53 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:02:15 -0400 From: Robert To: Bob McKeithen Subject: Re: Kwitcher Whining Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Speaking of which bike is king of the hill today (thanks, Bob!); anyone seen/ridden/has-a-close -friend-that-almost-saw the new Triumph Rocket III? I've read a few reviews online, and it almost sounds like the cruiser that could convince me to switch from sport bikes. Almost. Good gravy, a 2.3 liter motor?! That's a car engine! http://www.triumph.co.uk/site/bikes/page.cfm?BikeID=83 Robert On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:58:45 -0400, Bob McKeithen wrote: > For crying out loud ! Almost an entire digest full of whining about > having to follow the laws which everybody knows. It is not as if > getting a ticket should be any surprise. Get over it and go for a ride, > check your tire pressure, change the oil, argue about which bike is the > beans this week-- annnnnnnnything. > > Bob > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:05:02 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:04:47 EDT Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/3/2004 1:48:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, skip@XXXXXX writes: > I know of a guy who carried 2x10's on his bike. you've just gotta be > committed. For a number of years my wife and I used to buy a _live_ 6-7ft. christmas tree and take it home on the bike. Just to see the looks #8-o John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:08:45 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:08:36 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Paul Wilson Reply-To: Paul Wilson To: Brian Roach Subject: Take care when quoting, was Re: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Be careful when snipping and quoting. I didn't write that. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Roach Paul Wilson wrote: > Theft is a moral crime, as is murder and countless others. > Speeding is not. Nifty ... which one isn't a violation of the law? .... Paul in DC - www.wilsonline.org 95 VFR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:23:48 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:23:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Kwitcher Whining > Good gravy, a 2.3 liter motor?! That's a car engine! Uhh, yeah. That's a good 300cc larger than my car engine. :: gulp :: -Sean From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:32:50 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:32:42 -0400 From: Robert To: DC Cycles Subject: RE: Kwitcher Whining - Cruisers Well, it's a toss-up between the Rocket and the Honda Rune, for the mechanical cojones on display.. Robert . On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 09:23:34 -0400, Sean Steele wrote: > > Good gravy, a 2.3 liter motor?! That's a car engine! > > Uhh, yeah. That's a good 300cc larger than my car engine. > > :: gulp :: > > -Sean > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:34:47 2004 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:34:36 EDT Subject: Re: Front/rear stand To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > 1 persons carelessness/stupidity doesn't make the > > stand unstable. I have worked in shops and rigged in one garage I had a system to _hang_ the bike from above. No way in hell to knock it over! (I actually used it as a back up for a not too secure lift in the shop.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC 1999, Honda ST1100X Pan European 1983, BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles 1976, Honda CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 09:49:55 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 09:49:36 EDT Subject: Re: Accident 7-16-04 Follow-Up To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Good news. Glad you're doing better. And don't worry, you will most likely be getting back on the bike. I did after I totaled my first bike the first year I had it. And I am glad I did. I've had great fun on my bike, including riding cross-country. Keep us posted and see you out there. Scooter In a message dated 8/3/2004 7:15:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bdaleray@XXXXXX writes: Still don't know how long it will take me to get back on the bike, but when I do, the bike will be ready. Me? I'm doing better as well. Getting more pain-free movement from my left arm, and I'm getting by with fewer pain pills. Brian From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 10:10:37 2004 Subject: FW: Hey Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:10:24 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: "DC Cycles" From my bro (new rider). Any idea about the headlight on the 04 R6 see comment below: -----Original Message----- From: dan halton [mailto:danhalton@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:28 AM To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Hey Hey I drove my r6 into work today and noticed only one headlight worked. I freaked and called the dealer and he says that is normal for daytime running lights only one to be on for yamaha r6 - is that true? - on high beam both lights work. If it is true it looks really bad having only one day light on. Then this asshole quebec driver in the left lane decided to cut into to my lane as the car in front of him was turning, and squeezed me almost into the sidewalk i wanted to punch his head in. Just because there is more space b/c it's a bike doesn't mean drivers can take it. I realise the reason there is so many bike accidents is b/c drivers either don't see the bikes or think they own all the free space in biker's lanes. --- Julian Halton wrote: > Dan > Enjoy your bike BUT make sure to follow the break in period..dont over > rev it..and if you want to save money, I will buy yuor bike from you > and give you mine instead. :) > > > Julian Halton > Systems Analyst > Group Logic > julian@XXXXXX > v. 800.4768781x2338 > f. 703.528.3296 > > ===== Dan Halton E-mail:danhalton@XXXXXX __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 10:18:06 2004 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Brian Ray" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Accident 7-16-04 Follow-Up Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:21:56 -0400 Glad to hear you are getting better. Completely stock, your Bandit was jetted extremely lean. Since you are installing a good, free-flowing slip on (which, by the way, comes with a new elbow pipe...eliminating even more flow restriction and weight--the stocker is a real POS), you really need to install a jet kit. Either a Holeshot stage I or II jet kit will work (http://www.holeshot.com/), I'd recommend going with the Stage II (more horsepower, get rid of the f-ing airbox). The Bandit airbox is very restrictive. Also, with the airbox gone, all maintenance tasks become easier. I think Holeshot recommends the 5* ignition advancer at this point. It isn't expensive and it supposedly improves throttle response. I put it in when I did the Stage II and slip-on, so I can't verify the difference it makes. With just the slip-on and Stage II, you will really wake up the bike. More smooth, controllable power everywhere. The increases I got by going to the full exhaust weren't all that great. Adding a GSXR intake cam allowed it to pull much harder up top--and hard all the way to redline--but the low-midrange power suffered. I guess what I'm saying is that the $$$ to HP ratio is most favorable with Stage II and slip-on. --jon 2001 Bandit 1200 (soon to be FS, contact me off-list) 2002 CBR 954 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Ray" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Accident 7-16-04 Follow-Up > Well, the insurance company is getting the bike > (Bandit 1200S) fixed. Looks like about $3600 in > damage. Mostly to the right side, but includes the > tank, handlebars, both sides of the faring, the right > engine cover, muffler, and windscreen. > > It looks like the repair shop (Cycle Center in > Roanoke) is willing to work with me. In the spirit of > "Don't replace, upgrade!" I'm going to have them get a > Holeshot Slip-On (17" Street Core, Black), NRC engine > covers, and the higher Suzuki touring windscreen. > > Still don't know how long it will take me to get back > on the bike, but when I do, the bike will be ready. > > Me? I'm doing better as well. Getting more pain-free > movement from my left arm, and I'm getting by with > fewer pain pills. > > Brian > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 10:22:29 2004 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:22:17 EDT Subject: Re: FW: Hey To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I believe the dealer is correct. The latest round of bikes (not just Yamahas) use one headlight (low-beam) as on all the time. Both lights come on when you flick on the hi-beams. I don't think you can do anything to change it but, I'm mechanically challenged and could be wrong about that. He'll just have to get used to it. Tell him that if he wants both headlights on, I'll trade him my 2000 R6 for his. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 8/4/2004 10:10:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: From my bro (new rider). Any idea about the headlight on the 04 R6 see comment below: -----Original Message----- From: dan halton [mailto:danhalton@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:28 AM To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Hey Hey I drove my r6 into work today and noticed only one headlight worked. I freaked and called the dealer and he says that is normal for daytime running lights only one to be on for yamaha r6 - is that true? - on high beam both lights work. If it is true it looks really bad having only one day light on. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 10:25:05 2004 Subject: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:24:49 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: , I tried that one already...the guy says he needs money for a ring , getting married 12 September so I offered to give him my 02 r6 and take his,. This was not favorably received. -----Original Message----- From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX [mailto:ScooterFZR@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:22 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FW: Hey I believe the dealer is correct. The latest round of bikes (not just Yamahas) use one headlight (low-beam) as on all the time. Both lights come on when you flick on the hi-beams. I don't think you can do anything to change it but, I'm mechanically challenged and could be wrong about that. He'll just have to get used to it. Tell him that if he wants both headlights on, I'll trade him my 2000 R6 for his. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 8/4/2004 10:10:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, julian@XXXXXX writes: From my bro (new rider). Any idea about the headlight on the 04 R6 see comment below: -----Original Message----- From: dan halton [mailto:danhalton@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:28 AM To: Julian Halton Subject: Re: Hey Hey I drove my r6 into work today and noticed only one headlight worked. I freaked and called the dealer and he says that is normal for daytime running lights only one to be on for yamaha r6 - is that true? - on high beam both lights work. If it is true it looks really bad having only one day light on. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 11:00:17 2004 From: Daniel To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: 01 gsxr 600 forsale Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:59:13 -0400 blue white polished frame+swing arm chrome wheels email if interested. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 11:52:53 2004 Subject: Awareness advisory (warning non -moto related content) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:52:37 -0400 From: "Julian Halton" To: I walked by a co-workers office this morning and was stunned to see not his usual smile but a bruised and bloody face. 10:30 PM. Bowie, MD. His home. He stepped out of his van and was retrieving items from the trunk. The first thing he felt was the sharp pain of a pistol butt crashing down onto his shoulder blade. He turned to face his two assailants and was hit repeatedly in the face and neck. He was robbed of wallet documents and other personal items. In his driveway. I am not an alarmist nor I am I going to crow about urban crime. My point in posting this is to remind us all (including myself) to always be very aware of our surroundings. Listening to my co-worker talk, I was playing the what-if game to see what alternatives he had. Two guys with pistols that had the drop on you. Not many. It happened so quickly that I do not believe it was random. Turns out the guy gets home at exactly the same time every night. My _guess_ is they had been 'clocking' him for a while. Anyone with comments is free to reply off list. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 11:57:47 2004 From: Reply-To: you@XXXXXX To: Subject: Re: Rocket - Was Kwitcher whining Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:57:30 -0400 > anyone seen/ridden/has-a-close -friend-that-almost-saw the new Triumph > Rocket III? Just checked it out online... what's up with the extra exhaust pipe? Looks like a three-into-two on one side, then this extra "thing" coming out of the oil sump on the other side. As for looks... Rune, any day. Beautiful bike... and I don't even like cruisers. :P --smthng From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 12:42:41 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:42:48 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: The Loudoun 9 - was: Demonstrated Proficiency - was BRP speeding At 07:26 AM 8/4/04 -0400, mjordan812@XXXXXX wrote: >> because someone said there was "a group of bikes being reckless... > >Unfortunately, that "someone" was the Chief of Police in Purcellville. Used to be that in VA the issuing officer had to personally witness the infraction. Has that changed? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 12:42:45 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:41:35 -0400 To: Daniel , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Front/rear stand At 07:21 AM 8/4/04 -0400, Daniel wrote: >now that i think about it, i'm glad i have 2 rear wheel stands... >also have a motorcycle jack.. that comes in handy. they are like 69 >bux now. or maybe 59? check autozone and pep boys.. Costco has them for about $80, and the moto/ATV lift comes with a little stool too. Quality and design of the lift looks a lot like the one Sears sells, which is about $10-$20 more, but has the Craftsman lifetime warranty. Both are the double-support, lift-from-the side-under-the-frame types. -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 12:44:31 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:44:38 -0400 To: "Sean Steele" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Kwitcher Whining At 09:23 AM 8/4/04 -0400, Sean Steele wrote: >> Good gravy, a 2.3 liter motor?! That's a car engine! > >Uhh, yeah. That's a good 300cc larger than my car engine. That's not a car engine, that's an overgrown go-kart! ;-) -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 12:45:51 2004 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 12:45:56 -0400 To: Robert , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Kwitcher Whining - Cruisers At 09:32 AM 8/4/04 -0400, Robert wrote: >Well, it's a toss-up between the Rocket and the Honda Rune, for the >mechanical cojones on display.. The Rune looks nice though. It's cool, without trying to copy the Harley look like lots of other metric cruisers. It has its own look. What does the Rocket look like? -- Mike B. '04 FLSTCI (H-D Softail Heritage Classic with EFI for the non-Harley folks) Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from someone else's mistakes is better. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:18:03 2004 Reply-To: "Patrick Carter" From: "Patrick Carter" To: "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: wreck 395 and wash blvd? Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:05:07 -0400 Don't know if anyone here knew Katie or not but... http://www.dcsportbikes.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9169&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 http://www.dcsportbikes.com/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=3&TopicID=10069&ReturnPage=&PagePosition=1&ThreadPage=1 :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 4:52 PM Subject: wreck 395 and wash blvd? > > > Just got a 2nd hand report of a motorcycle wreck at 395 near Washington > Blvd in Arlington. Sounds like closed roads. > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:32:10 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:31:57 -0400 Subject: Re: wreck 395 and wash blvd? One of my best friends has known her since she was a little kid. Her brother Jay is a real estate agent in Haymarket. The Ashtons are a close family and they are all understandably beside themeselves with grief. Apparently she had forgotten something at work and was headed back to pick it up when the accident happened. They say she died instantly. She is survived by her 9 year old daugher. -Sean Patrick Carter wrote: > Don't know if anyone here knew Katie or not but... > > http://www.dcsportbikes.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=9169&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:34:35 2004 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: wreck 395 and wash blvd? Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:33:39 -0400 Does anyone know how she died? What caused the accident? _________________________________________________________________ Planning a family vacation? Check out the MSN Family Travel guide! http://dollar.msn.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:40:09 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:40:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: wreck 395 and wash blvd? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Does anyone know what exactly happened? Glenn --- Sean Steele wrote: > One of my best friends has known her since she was a > little kid. Her > brother Jay is a real estate agent in Haymarket. > > The Ashtons are a close family and they are all > understandably beside > themeselves with grief. > > Apparently she had forgotten something at work and > was headed back to > pick it up when the accident happened. They say she > died instantly. > > She is survived by her 9 year old daugher. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:49:18 2004 From: "Sean Steele" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:48:45 -0400 Subject: Re: wreck 395 and wash blvd? From what I was told, she was exiting I-95N and rear-ended a stopped taxi. That's all I know. -Sean Glenn Dysart wrote: > Does anyone know what exactly happened? > > Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 4 13:50:02 2004 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 13:49:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: From Wash post. Joyrider Pleads Guilty in D.C. Death By Henri E. Cauvin Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, August 4, 2004; Page B04 The only teenager charged as an adult in this year's string of juvenile joyriding deaths pleaded guilty yesterday to killing a 21-year-old man last month in Southeast Washington. Looking anxious and speaking in a reluctant whisper, Andrew Lofty, 16, admitted being behind the wheel of the stolen minivan that plowed into Terry Andrew Weaver on July 2 on G Street SE. It was the first conviction of a driver in the four recent deaths linked to juvenile joyriders, many of whom operate stolen cars. Charged with second-degree murder, Lofty pleaded guilty in D.C. Superior Court to the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter. The agreement did not seem to make it any easier for him to address the court and acknowledge his guilt. More than once, Judge Robert I. Richter had to repeat a question as he queried the defendant. "How do you wish to plead, guilty or not guilty?" Richter asked. Lofty, dressed in an orange jail jumpsuit and standing next to his attorney, James E. Williams, said nothing. "Guilty, or not guilty?" Richter asked again. "Guilty," Lofty murmured. Unlike a charge of murder or voluntary manslaughter, which generally requires that the defendant had a specific intent to kill, involuntary manslaughter requires evidence only that the defendant should have known the potentially fatal risks of his or her actions. Lofty was traveling about 15 mph over the 25 mph limit and was in the oncoming traffic lane when he collided with Weaver's motorcycle. Five other youths were in the minivan, and all have been charged as juveniles; two have pleaded responsible to various charges, and the other three are awaiting trial. The maximum sentence for involuntary manslaughter is 30 years, and the maximum for unauthorized use of a vehicle -- the other charge Lofty pleaded guilty to -- is five years. By pleading guilty just a month after he was charged and before he was indicted by a grand jury, Lofty has probably earned himself a measure of leniency when he is sentenced Oct. 15. Defense attorneys an