From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 06:01:55 2003 Subject: Re: Reduce Drag From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 05:57:39 -0400 Hmm, it sounds like I should tape it down until I find the right place and then set it. Thanks, Carl On Thu, 2003-07-31 at 14:16, George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > As one who is always looking to cut down on wind noise, they do help a > bit, I > misjudged the mounting point and need to tilt my head back to get the > right > flow (IE quietness) > > George > > >That's the site. Do they work like the site says? I mean effectiveness? > >I might have to go with the yellow on black motif, just to be annoying > :-) > > Thanks, > > Carl > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 07:38:00 2003 Subject: Close call From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 07:33:44 -0400 A bit of excitement this morning on my way in. Coming up 95HOV I got behind a SUV with a USMC license plate 'sleeping' in the left lane. After a moment, I signaled, checked and shifted right to pass. At about 1/3 into the pass he apparently woke up and hit the turn signals as he started changing lanes. I noticed the signals out of the corner of my eye, hit the horn and moved to the right side of the lane covering my brakes just in case. He paniced and did a little left/right swerve look around; "who's beeping" before going back into the left lane. I did a lot of waving of my arm at him (no, no 'finger'; "look at me, I'm a big biker, watch out") before continuing on. He had a blue t-shirt and a white baseball cap. It was one of those jeep type SUV's rather than the newer tanks. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 07:50:55 2003 Subject: MSF Day 1/2 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 07:46:41 -0400 Rita was beat when she got home yesterday. Wednesday's class was in the evening and she didn't get to bed until midnight. Then she had to get up at 5:30. The class was full (24 riders) with 6 women. Three extra folks showed up in case someone was late, "you're late, you're out". Unfortunately for them all 24 showed up and they had to leave. The instructor said that a few (6?) of the people in the last class failed. They went over the questions for the test and reviewed three videos including the one they showed at the rider seminar at Coleman's. Thursday she had a little *ping* as she understood pushing on the inside handlebar when turning even though I showed it to her lots of times. One of the ladies bailed out during class. She couldn't keep the speed up on her bike and was afraid of the turns. Rita's riding a Honda Nighthawk. She said there are a couple of those and a couple of Virago's. And a couple of dirt bikes. She seemed to enjoy the class but she was pretty dead on her feet too. She went to bed about 30 minutes after getting home last night. I was going to drive her in but with rain in the forecast, she didn't want to. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 08:05:47 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:04:40 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: MSF Day 1/2 Yep, range day will wear you out. The Nighthawk is agood choice, my usual demo bike. I avoid riding the Sherpa for tight turn demos. That bike can almost kiss it's own taillight and I thinks it's sorta like cheating to do demos on it :-) Bill Carl Schelin wrote: > Rita was beat when she got home yesterday. > > Wednesday's class was in the evening and she didn't get to bed until > midnight. Then she had to get up at 5:30. > > The class was full (24 riders) with 6 women. Three extra folks showed up > in case someone was late, "you're late, you're out". Unfortunately for > them all 24 showed up and they had to leave. The instructor said that a > few (6?) of the people in the last class failed. > > They went over the questions for the test and reviewed three videos > including the one they showed at the rider seminar at Coleman's. > > Thursday she had a little *ping* as she understood pushing on the inside > handlebar when turning even though I showed it to her lots of times. > > One of the ladies bailed out during class. She couldn't keep the speed > up on her bike and was afraid of the turns. > > Rita's riding a Honda Nighthawk. She said there are a couple of those > and a couple of Virago's. And a couple of dirt bikes. > > She seemed to enjoy the class but she was pretty dead on her feet too. > She went to bed about 30 minutes after getting home last night. > > I was going to drive her in but with rain in the forecast, she didn't > want to. > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 08:19:50 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 08:15:21 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Carl Schelin , DCCycles Subject: Re: MSF Day 1/2 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [151.196.120.82] at Fri, 1 Aug 2003 07:19:39 -0500 Carl Schelin wrote: >Rita was beat when she got home yesterday. > >Wednesday's class was in the evening and she didn't get to bed until >midnight. Then she had to get up at 5:30. > > > Carl, Please let Rita know I'm rootin' for her. There's nothin' prettier than a woman on a motorcycle. . . . . . . . . . . . . . That's because she won't become one of those dreaded "Soccer Mom's." ;-) Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 08:25:46 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:25:41 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Virginia special MC plates Virginia license plates for motorcycles & cars. "Share the Road". Show support for the Motorcycle Safety Training Program. http://www.vcomonline.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 08:46:06 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:00:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Bike GPS (was:Re: Convertibars (**WARNING!!** Actual moto content)) On Thu, 31 Jul 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > I dunno why you wanna change the tripple clamps down they look sweet to me. I want to be able to lower the front end when I drag race. I can not slide the fork tubes up any to drop the front with the stock triple. Right now I'm limited to strapping the front end. > Anyhow, Just wanted to let you know that you can get some sweet ass GPS mounts > from RAM mounts. I see you used zip ties and that thing has got to vibrate > like a b#cht. No vibes here. What bike do you ride, Rob? My 'Busa is smooth as buttah. 8-) > I got a system from Cycoactive, it mounts into the spindle hole and it really > got rid of any vibration issues, except under the most extreme circumstances > (like too tall a gear). > > http://www.sharpie.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=album31&id=IMG_0870 Looks good. > They even have a spindle Hayabusa mount shown here at the bottom of this page. > http://www.cycoactive.com/gps/gallery/sport_gpsmount.html > You can pretty much adjust your GPS any way you want it. I've been considering a stemstand, but my zip tie solution works well for me. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 09:03:28 2003 Subject: Re: MSF Day 1/2 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 08:59:14 -0400 On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 08:15, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Rita was beat when she got home yesterday. > > > >Wednesday's class was in the evening and she didn't get to bed until > >midnight. Then she had to get up at 5:30. > > > > > > > > Carl, > Please let Rita know I'm rootin' for her. There's nothin' > prettier than a woman on a motorcycle. > .. > .. > That's because she won't become one of those dreaded "Soccer Mom's." > > ;-) > She won't anyway. We're [Step]grandparents. The kids are grown and [mostly] gone. One of mine is in Boston and refuses to have kids. I'm afraid the other one will spend her life in [stereotype] trailers. Rita's daughter is actively pursuing her boyfriend though. Maybe a soccer grandmom :-) but with the kids on the back. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 10:50:46 2003 Subject: Tire Information From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 10:46:31 -0400 Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local biker guy here at the office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response was that I'd get them when my current tires needed to be replaced. I'm at that point now. I checked various places for prices and found that Coleman's was offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with an additional $100 to mount. East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the choice." They'll mount ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). Of course they also threaten my life and question my sanity and give me stories about Avons with dry rot. The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting and will give me "peace of mind". I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting behind my boxwoods. When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said the parts guys are idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then they charge the hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for front. $165 total. Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick and is two to three weeks behind on work. Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, check the archives. Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I just cleaned out my dc-cycles folder. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 10:58:49 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 10:58:59 -0400 To: Larry Larson , dcpatti , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: Rock Creek Park At 08:11 PM 7/31/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- dcpatti wrote: > >> A big chunk of Rock Creek Park is closed to motorized >> traffic from 7am Saturday to 7pm Sunday, every >> weekend, plus Holiday Mondays. There's still plenty >> of fun roads open but it's a little harder to find >> them if you don't know the park. Beach Drive is one >> of the roads that's closed. > >Beach Drive is only closed from Broad Branch Road north. I believe the portions in Montgomery County are at least partially open. I've been on the section from the Viers Mill Rec Center down to the Mormon Temple on the weekends with no problems. -- Mike "it's a nice section to ride too" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:01:32 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Tire Information To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Call Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's. They will install tires bought else where. You do need an appointment there now. Dennis does not accept walkins and you cannot leave the bike there due to space issues. --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local > biker guy here at the > office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response > was that I'd get > them when my current tires needed to be replaced. > I'm at that point now. > > I checked various places for prices and found that > Coleman's was > offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with > an additional $100 > to mount. > > East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the > choice." They'll mount > ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). > Of course they also > threaten my life and question my sanity and give me > stories about Avons > with dry rot. > > The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting > and will give me > "peace of mind". > > I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from > discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting > behind my boxwoods. > > When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said > the parts guys are > idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then > they charge the > hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for > front. $165 total. > > Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick > and is two to three > weeks behind on work. > > Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, > check the archives. > Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I > just cleaned out my > dc-cycles folder. > > Carl > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:15:36 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:15:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Tire Information To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX cycle accessory discounters in g-burg, md: 301 977-7188 --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Call Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's. They will install > tires bought else where. You do need an appointment > there now. Dennis does not accept walkins and you > cannot leave the bike there due to space issues. > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local > > biker guy here at the > > office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response > > was that I'd get > > them when my current tires needed to be replaced. > > I'm at that point now. > > > > I checked various places for prices and found that > > Coleman's was > > offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with > > an additional $100 > > to mount. > > > > East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the > > choice." They'll mount > > ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). > > Of course they also > > threaten my life and question my sanity and give me > > stories about Avons > > with dry rot. > > > > The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting > > and will give me > > "peace of mind". > > > > I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from > > discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting > > behind my boxwoods. > > > > When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said > > the parts guys are > > idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then > > they charge the > > hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for > > front. $165 total. > > > > Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick > > and is two to three > > weeks behind on work. > > > > Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, > > check the archives. > > Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I > > just cleaned out my > > dc-cycles folder. > > > > Carl > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:22:36 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:22:29 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Tire Information For $35 I bought a tire changer from Harbor Freight as recommended by The List(c). I'll be using it for the first time somewhere around October after my summer tires are shot. I was tired of being raped by Manassas Honda for tire changes when I don't buy my tires from them. At 11:15 AM 8/1/2003, Tom Gimer wrote: >cycle accessory discounters in g-burg, md: 301 977-7188 > > >--- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Call Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's. They will install > > tires bought else where. You do need an appointment > > there now. Dennis does not accept walkins and you > > cannot leave the bike there due to space issues. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:29:35 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Carl Schelin'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Tire Information Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:29:23 -0400 I know for some it might be a drive for people in Virginia but CAD cycles in Gaithersburg will mount tires for 15 per wheel off the bike or if you bring in the bike it is 35 per tire. I took my wheels off my bike and took them in and got them mounted saved some money. Also check out Motorcycle tire planet seems to be the best prices I've found so far. http://www.motorcycletireplanet.com/index.asp -----Original Message----- From: Carl Schelin [mailto:cschelin@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 10:47 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Tire Information Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local biker guy here at the office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response was that I'd get them when my current tires needed to be replaced. I'm at that point now. I checked various places for prices and found that Coleman's was offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with an additional $100 to mount. East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the choice." They'll mount ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). Of course they also threaten my life and question my sanity and give me stories about Avons with dry rot. The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting and will give me "peace of mind". I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting behind my boxwoods. When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said the parts guys are idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then they charge the hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for front. $165 total. Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick and is two to three weeks behind on work. Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, check the archives. Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I just cleaned out my dc-cycles folder. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:31:54 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Troutman'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Tire Information Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:31:12 -0400 Is there a link for that I'd like to buy one of those tire changers. -----Original Message----- From: Troutman [mailto:mike@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:22 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Information For $35 I bought a tire changer from Harbor Freight as recommended by The List(c). I'll be using it for the first time somewhere around October after my summer tires are shot. I was tired of being raped by Manassas Honda for tire changes when I don't buy my tires from them. At 11:15 AM 8/1/2003, Tom Gimer wrote: >cycle accessory discounters in g-burg, md: 301 977-7188 > > >--- Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Call Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's. They will install > > tires bought else where. You do need an appointment > > there now. Dennis does not accept walkins and you > > cannot leave the bike there due to space issues. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:32:30 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Information Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:32:17 -0400 Call up Sebastian, the owner of Cycle pros at 8536 P Terminal Road in Lorton (I had his card)703-339-5699. He's a pretty cool guy. Tell him Jeff, the guy with the red Honda Hawk said Hi. (He insatalled both of my pre-bought tires) jeff ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Tire Information Date: 01 Aug 2003 10:46:31 -0400 Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local biker guy here at the office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response was that I'd get them when my current tires needed to be replaced. I'm at that point now. I checked various places for prices and found that Coleman's was offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with an additional $100 to mount. East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the choice." They'll mount ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). Of course they also threaten my life and question my sanity and give me stories about Avons with dry rot. The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting and will give me "peace of mind". I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting behind my boxwoods. When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said the parts guys are idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then they charge the hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for front. $165 total. Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick and is two to three weeks behind on work. Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, check the archives. Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I just cleaned out my dc-cycles folder. Carl _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:38:26 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:38:16 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Tire Information Looks like they raised their price. $70 now. Glad I bought mine a couple of months ago at half price! I just looked in the archives which said a motorcycle tire attachment is required. That is $39.99, but I don't know if the two work together or if you can use it separately. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34542 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42927 At 11:31 AM 8/1/2003, you wrote: >Is there a link for that I'd like to buy one of those tire changers. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:42:31 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:42:18 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Tire Information Correction, the two are required for changing bike tires. I'll have to order the second unit. Still cheaper than two tire changes at the dealer! At 11:38 AM 8/1/2003, you wrote: >a motorcycle tire attachment is required. That is $39.99, but I don't >know if the two work together or if you can use it separately. > >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34542 >http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42927 ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 11:56:58 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Tire Information Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 11:58:12 -0400 In the latest ad/catalog that came in the mail, it's $34 on the cover. Not sure how you dig up that price online, but they ARE still offering it for that. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Troutman [SMTP:mike@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:38 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Tire Information > > Looks like they raised their price. $70 now. Glad I bought mine a couple > > of months ago at half price! I just looked in the archives which said a > motorcycle tire attachment is required. That is $39.99, but I don't know > if the two work together or if you can use it separately. > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34542 > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42927 > > At 11:31 AM 8/1/2003, you wrote: > >Is there a link for that I'd like to buy one of those tire changers. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:04:17 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Information Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 11:52:20 -0400 I'll second that. Give Ryan or Dave a call there and you can usually walk in have it done while you wait. I'll be bringing in a set of VFR wheels there tomorrow for a friend. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Tom Gimer To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire Information Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 08:15:28 -0700 (PDT) cycle accessory discounters in g-burg, md: 301 977-7188 --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Call Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's. They will install > tires bought else where. You do need an appointment > there now. Dennis does not accept walkins and you > cannot leave the bike there due to space issues. > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Ok, so when I bought my bike last year, the local > > biker guy here at the > > office pushed for me to get Avon Venoms. My response > > was that I'd get > > them when my current tires needed to be replaced. > > I'm at that point now. > > > > I checked various places for prices and found that > > Coleman's was > > offering the wrong tires for F $165 and R $198 with > > an additional $100 > > to mount. > > > > East Coast won't sell me Avons. "Dunlop is the > > choice." They'll mount > > ones I bring in for 3-4 hours of work (about $250). > > Of course they also > > threaten my life and question my sanity and give me > > stories about Avons > > with dry rot. > > > > The Dunlops will cost me $525 for tires and mounting > > and will give me > > "peace of mind". > > > > I received the Avon's a few days ago ($212 from > > discountmotorcycletire.com). They were sitting > > behind my boxwoods. > > > > When I stopped by Coleman's, the service guy said > > the parts guys are > > idiots. If I didn't buy the tires at Coleman's then > > they charge the > > hourly price, 1.2 hours for rear, .8 hours for > > front. $165 total. > > > > Classic Iron said their service guy had been sick > > and is two to three > > weeks behind on work. > > > > Any other suggestions for quick turn-around? I know, > > check the archives. > > Unfortunately they seem to be a little behind and I > > just cleaned out my > > dc-cycles folder. > > > > Carl > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:07:37 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 12:07:25 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: RE: Tire Information Just went to their site and did a search for tire changer. First link down there shows $70. At 11:57 AM 8/1/2003, you wrote: >In the latest ad/catalog that came in the mail, it's $34 on the cover. Not >sure how you dig up that price online, but they ARE still offering it for >that. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:14:03 2003 Subject: Ans: Tire Information From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 12:09:49 -0400 See, that's why I'll just hit delete for the wacky messages. Lots of good information when asked. Anyone have Crossroads phone number? They apparently don't have a web site. Thanks all. I'll let you know what I find. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:19:18 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:19:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Ans: Tire Information To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ha, they are not website types of guys 703-820-3711 --- Carl Schelin wrote: > See, that's why I'll just hit delete for the wacky > messages. Lots of > good information when asked. > > Anyone have Crossroads phone number? They apparently > don't have a web > site. > > Thanks all. I'll let you know what I find. > > Carl > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:22:59 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 12:25:07 -0400 Subject: fs---cb77 update To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "garcia oliver" I have fixed the sticking clutch plates problem and the oil seal repair is still holding. --garcia ====================================================================== 1967 Honda 305 Superhawk. Something of a collectors)B’ item, the restored ones can sell for upwards of $3500. This one isn)B’t anywhere that nice, but is often described as )B“cute”. See pix on ebay, google, or altavista. [e.g. http://www.honda305.com/superhawk/] for restored ones. Or email me for pix of this one. Ok, details: 305 cc, parallel twin, kick and electric start. Continental tires, new battery. Non-stock (though not obnoxiously loud) mufflers. 8k miles on speedo, but who knows. IMO: (1) this is a good bike for restoration or riding around for fun. (2) It)B’s not a good beginner’s (or daily commuting) bike because it will require more frequent tinkering and repair than a newer bike. Good stuff: Starts easily and very easy to work on (for example, carbs come off in less than 10 minutes). Superhawks are rare and get lots of attention, but parts are readily available (though somewhat expensive) on ebay. Some spare parts go with bike. Known bad stuff: Gear shifting is clunky and false neutrals are common unless you shift just right. Had oil leak (seal size 30-62-8) on the right side (easy to get to; if my repair doesn)B’t hold (seal had popped out), a new seal should do it). Needs speedo cable ($17.49 at Cycles USA, about the same at Coleman's) and chain guard (last NOS one on ebay went for $51). Stupidly cut-and-spliced wiring (it works, and electrical system is pretty basic, so this is not much of a problem; and a used stock harness is around $50 on ebay). One tank badge cracked, the other missing. Small (~ 1") tear in seat cover. $700 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:35:16 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Troutman '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Tire Information Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:36:35 -0400 Catalog "143-B / SUMMER 2003" Front page, Portable Tire Changer 69.99 34.99. Item 34542-9ABB That's all I know. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F -----Original Message----- From: Troutman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 8/1/03 12:07 PM Subject: RE: Tire Information Just went to their site and did a search for tire changer. First link down there shows $70. At 11:57 AM 8/1/2003, you wrote: >In the latest ad/catalog that came in the mail, it's $34 on the cover. Not >sure how you dig up that price online, but they ARE still offering it for >that. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:38:51 2003 Subject: TI Recap From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 12:34:37 -0400 Crossroads Cycles: $90 walk-ins tomorrow at 9am. Motorcycle Factory Inc (PW Parkway; I found it on the web and it was privately recommended, thanks!): $70 if I bring unmounted tires. Cycle Pros: Left message on answering machine. Coleman's: $165 walk-ins tomorrow East Coast: $250 and it takes two days The one thing I forgot was tubes (East Coast reminded me). We'll see what Cycle Pros says later. Thanks all, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:41:50 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:41:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: TI Recap To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX you forgot the best deal going: CAD --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Crossroads Cycles: $90 walk-ins tomorrow at 9am. > > Motorcycle Factory Inc (PW Parkway; I found it on the web > and it was > privately recommended, thanks!): $70 if I bring unmounted > tires. > > Cycle Pros: Left message on answering machine. > > Coleman's: $165 walk-ins tomorrow > > East Coast: $250 and it takes two days > > > The one thing I forgot was tubes (East Coast reminded > me). > > We'll see what Cycle Pros says later. > > Thanks all, > > Carl > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 12:50:49 2003 Subject: Re: TI Recap From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 12:46:35 -0400 Yea but... I'd have to drive from Woodbridge to Gaithersburg. If I wasn't in a hurry I might consider it. Thanks, Carl On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:41, Tom Gimer wrote: > you forgot the best deal going: CAD > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Crossroads Cycles: $90 walk-ins tomorrow at 9am. > > > > Motorcycle Factory Inc (PW Parkway; I found it on the web > > and it was > > privately recommended, thanks!): $70 if I bring unmounted > > tires. > > > > Cycle Pros: Left message on answering machine. > > > > Coleman's: $165 walk-ins tomorrow > > > > East Coast: $250 and it takes two days > > > > > > The one thing I forgot was tubes (East Coast reminded > > me). > > > > We'll see what Cycle Pros says later. > > > > Thanks all, > > > > Carl > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 13:21:56 2003 Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 10:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: TI Recap To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX gotcha --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Yea but... I'd have to drive from Woodbridge to > Gaithersburg. > > If I wasn't in a hurry I might consider it. > > Thanks, > > Carl > > On Fri, 2003-08-01 at 12:41, Tom Gimer wrote: > > you forgot the best deal going: CAD > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Crossroads Cycles: $90 walk-ins tomorrow at 9am. > > > > > > Motorcycle Factory Inc (PW Parkway; I found it on the > web > > > and it was > > > privately recommended, thanks!): $70 if I bring > unmounted > > > tires. > > > > > > Cycle Pros: Left message on answering machine. > > > > > > Coleman's: $165 walk-ins tomorrow > > > > > > East Coast: $250 and it takes two days > > > > > > > > > The one thing I forgot was tubes (East Coast reminded > > > me). > > > > > > We'll see what Cycle Pros says later. > > > > > > Thanks all, > > > > > > Carl __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 13:27:11 2003 Subject: Virus making the rounds From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 01 Aug 2003 13:22:57 -0400 Just a heads-up. I don't click on attachments I don't recognize. A virus is starting to make the rounds. There's an attachment called message.zip and the subject is about "your account [some garbage]" It's another one of those Outlook/MAPI viruses that exploits an IE vulnerability. It's from admin@[domain], in our case, admin@XXXXXX. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 13:46:44 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Virus making the rounds Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 13:46:42 -0400 Hi, all. I'm a DBA on Oracle's Global Mail team. I've got some insight into this issue, as we're dealing with it right now. This is spam/virus. What it will do is send a message to every thing in your addressbook, essentially overloading your email system. Symantec and Trend (anti-virus control software used on laptops and network systems) have alerts out using their highest alert forms. This isn't coming from any specific domain, nor is it designed to exploit any specific browswers vunerabilities. It is forging the domain name so that it would state, 'admin@XXXXXX' or something like that. DO NOT OPEN THE ZIP FILE OR LAUNCH THE EXECUTABLE. This message is overwhelming our system... we'll probably read about it on cnn.com pretty soon. Regards, Pam Sapyta Carl Schelin writes: > Just a heads-up. I don't click on attachments I don't recognize. > > A virus is starting to make the rounds. There's an attachment called > message.zip and the subject is about "your account [some garbage]" > > It's another one of those Outlook/MAPI viruses that exploits an IE > vulnerability. > > It's from admin@[domain], in our case, admin@XXXXXX. > > Carl > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 17:01:57 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Nifty niche camcorder Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 17:00:31 -0400 Several times just recently t'would have been handy to have had immediate video capture while riding. And I'll bet the list tourers with their good galleries of travel shots felt that way too. All kinds of possibilities. Well, this just happened to cross my inbox -- DejaView CAMWEAR. Small unit with eyeglass-clip pickup and -- "Features: . Captures a 30 second video clip with audio of what happened before you hit the record button . Easy to use - ready to go right out of the box . Our cameras are all wearable - meaning that they are hands free!!" ($300 +) http://checkout.verisign.com/cgi-bin/epages.storefront/ENCK/ePages/Customer/ Orbit/ShopPage/Show/455246/CATALOG Seductive. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > pics of light runners, etc.? Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 18:15:14 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 18:14:01 -0400 To: "Mobacc" , "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Nifty niche camcorder What we really need is video and audio that records in a loop until stopped...so you always have the most recent 30 seconds or more of data. You would set the thing up with two ways to stop it: 1) a switch for when you see something incredible and want to save it, and 2) an accelerometer that triggers at a bunch of G's to record what happened just before the impact...like an ELT in a plane. It might even be possible to link it with a cell phone, so that saved clips could be uploaded to your home system, to free the camera up for another clip without having to go home first. If the home system could tell whether the trigger was manual or jolt-induced, and if you coupled the system with a GPS for location data, you could have your home system automatically call for an ambulance/police and specify your location too! :^) Not only would this be fun for the video-BLOG crowd (which I'm sure is coming soon...), and for accident data, but it might also help to reduce crime if enough people started wearing them. If a mugger knew that he'd just been videotaped and the record transmitted elsewhere, he might decide to go elsewhere. The police might also be able to use such captures to prosecute stupid and agressive drivers too...it would certainly help back up your testimony in court anyway. Just some thoughts... -- Mike At 05:00 PM 8/1/03 -0400, Mobacc wrote: >Several times just recently t'would have been handy to have had immediate >video capture while riding. And I'll bet the list tourers with their good >galleries of travel shots felt that way too. All kinds of possibilities. >Well, this just happened to cross my inbox -- DejaView CAMWEAR. Small unit >with eyeglass-clip pickup and -- > >"Features: . Captures a 30 second video clip with audio of what happened >before you hit the record button . Easy to use - ready to go right out of >the box . Our cameras are all wearable - meaning that they are hands free!!" >($300 +) > >http://checkout.verisign.com/cgi-bin/epages.storefront/ENCK/ePages/Customer/ >Orbit/ShopPage/Show/455246/CATALOG > >Seductive. > >Bill S. / DC >'99 VN750 > pics of light runners, etc.? >Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 18:25:17 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2003 18:25:08 -0400 >From the V-Strom Yahoo group. Reason #3 why turbine bikes won't catch on ;-) > Not a good day... > > http://ceracing.com/news.php3?id=167 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 1 23:35:48 2003 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 23:35:41 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out At 06:25 PM 8/1/03 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >>From the V-Strom Yahoo group. > >Reason #3 why turbine bikes won't catch on ;-) > >> Not a good day... >> >> http://ceracing.com/news.php3?id=167 Well, I guess if you are planning to dismount at 160mph+, you should be getting ready to break... -- Mike "looks like a typical piston engine...turbines don't have those tiny exhaust pipes..." Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 00:40:17 2003 From: "ALEXANDER MORSE" To: Subject: Riding in Montreal Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 00:40:06 -0400 Hi All, I'm taking the Bandit12 up to Montreal next week and I'm wondering if anybody knows about the moto environment up there. More sport bikes than Harleys? How's the toleration for parking downtown (can you squeeze into metered spaces with another car without getting a ticket) and what's their policy (informal or otherwise) on lane splitting? Stuff like that... Merci, Alex Mt Pleasant From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 01:31:20 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 00:31:39 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out Bartman wrote: >Well, I guess if you are planning to dismount at 160mph+, you should be >getting ready to break... Hey Mike, did you mean "brake", or was that an intentional pun on the rider's predicament? (That rider would be Colin Edwards on the Aprilia Cube MotoGP bike, en flambe.) -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 11:21:15 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 11:20:44 -0400 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out At 12:31 AM 8/2/03 -0500, Sean Jordan wrote: >Bartman wrote: >>Well, I guess if you are planning to dismount at 160mph+, you should be >>getting ready to break... > > >Hey Mike, did you mean "brake", or was that an intentional pun on the >rider's predicament? It was actually a comment on the spelling on the web page with the picture (they had it wrong). There were two errors in the text at the top, that was just one of them. Here's the text from the page: >What do you do when your getting ready to break at 160+ MPH, and you discover >you are completely engulfed in flames??? You get the hell off the bike!!! > >If it weren't for bad luck, our Texas Tornado would have any luck at all... The second mistake is that "would" should have been "wouldn't" I believe. It looked like that page was part of a news organization's pages, and if so, it's pretty sad that they don't proof read them. Casual "conversation" on lists like this is one thing, but a professional publication should have higher standards. -- Mike "IBR (Internet Brain Rot) strikes again" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 11:26:01 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 11:25:56 -0400 To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out At 11:20 AM 8/2/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >It was actually a comment on the spelling on the web page with the picture >(they had it wrong). There were two errors in the text at the top, that >was just one of them. Make that *three* errors. >>What do you do when your getting ready to break at 160+ MPH, and you "Your" should be "you're"... -- Mike "Apparently I've got IBR too..." Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 17:33:56 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 17:16:19 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out At 11:25 AM 8/2/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 11:20 AM 8/2/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: > > >It was actually a comment on the spelling on the web page with the picture > >(they had it wrong). There were two errors in the text at the top, that > >was just one of them. > >Make that *three* errors. > > >>What do you do when your getting ready to break at 160+ MPH, and you > >"Your" should be "you're"... > > -- Mike "Apparently I've got IBR too..." Bartman -- Make that four: "hell" should be capitalized. But I think this is a fan site, not a professional news page. At least I hope so. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red ST1100, STOC # 1157 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 18:15:46 2003 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 15:15:43 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Gas Mileage??? To: DC Cycles Got a friend with an older bike (early 80's Yamaha Seca) that is getting pretty horrid gas mileage, about 10-12mpg. He's already cleaned carbs, adjusted jetting, replaced air filter, replaced fuel petcocks (had a leak) and I think cleaned the choke out. What else should he look at? FWIW the bike was sitting for a long time before he started riding it again. Thanks, Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 18:42:05 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 18:41:35 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: Gas Mileage??? At 03:15 PM 8/2/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Got a friend with an older bike (early 80's Yamaha >Seca) that is getting pretty horrid gas mileage, about >10-12mpg. He's already cleaned carbs, adjusted >jetting, replaced air filter, replaced fuel petcocks >(had a leak) and I think cleaned the choke out. What >else should he look at? FWIW the bike was sitting for >a long time before he started riding it again. Is the friend riding with the choke on? Is the choke mechanism adjusted right? The choke dumps more gas into the mix for easier, richer starting. Probably not how you want to ride though. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 2 23:35:26 2003 Date: Sat, 02 Aug 2003 22:35:45 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Fw: [VStrom2] Flaming out I wasn't so much pointing out mistakes as I was pointing out the unintentional pun. If a rider is bailing off at 160 mph, he's getting ready to break....get it? Like, massive blunt force trauma to the endoskeleton when he slides into something? -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 01:08:25 2003 Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: re: gas mileage To: Jon Strang Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jon Strang wrote: > Its really tought to get that bad mileage and still > have the bike run...unless the gas is leaking out. > > He might want to see if his float valve (in any one > of > his four carbs) is not sealing, and gas is slowly > drooling out through the overflow (and into the > motor > when it's stopped). > > --jon > It might be dumping out while he is riding. I can safely say he is not leaking gas, or at least any tangible amount, while parked, as he parks in my carport and i don't smell gas at all from his bike. >From the other bikes, sure :) something back there is always leaking something or other, but that bike is not leaking enough gas to smell it, or to leave goo on the bike. I'll tell him to check the float bowls... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 13:23:04 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:22:51 EDT Subject: Re: Gas Mileage??? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/2/2003 6:15:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > adjusted > jetting, _Never_ necessary unless changes have been made to the engine. How did he clean it? If he used spray cleaner it could have destroyed some or all of the rubber components, or age could have. I would start with the rubber stuff. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 20:35:31 2003 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:49:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Moto Tote I was thumbing through the latest Cycle World and saw an ad for this hitch mounted bike hauler - http://www.mototote.com/ It looks like a good alternative to a motorcycle trailer. Anyone have experience using one? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 20:55:16 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Moto Tote Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 20:55:05 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec793a39c741bd7099001f6e5863916aab36350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c Wayne showed us: > I was thumbing through the latest Cycle World and saw an ad for this hitch > mounted bike hauler - http://www.mototote.com/ > > It looks like a good alternative to a motorcycle trailer. Anyone have > experience using one? [Dave] Negative. I've seen a moped mounted to the front of an RV... The only things I can see being issues are 1: I'd be worried about the integrity of the mount in the trailer hitch hole, 2: limited ground clearance because of the low hang, and weighting the rear suspension. But, like you say, a possible good trailer alternative. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 21:05:46 2003 Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:19:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Moto Tote On Sun, 3 Aug 2003, Dave Yates wrote: > [Dave] Negative. I've seen a moped mounted to the front of an RV... The > only things I can see being issues are 1: I'd be worried about the > integrity of the mount in the trailer hitch hole, 2: limited ground > clearance because of the low hang, and weighting the rear suspension. There is a pretty decent review of the product done by CW. It's in PDF form on the Moto Tote website. I'm not sure what you mean by the integrity of the trailer hitch hole, but they do mention the decreased ground clearance. As to weighting the rear suspension, even my pimp-daddy SUV ;-) can carry a LOT more weight in the rear than a motorcycle (~600 lbs w/mount) can deliver. It would obviously effect handling/ride more, since it's behind the rear axle, but so does having a trailer back there with a lot of tongue weight. I routintely trailer my car (total weight ~5500lbs) and run about 10% of my total trailer/car weight on the tongue. Getting rear ended while carrying your bike back there would certainly suck :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 21:47:34 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Moto Tote Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:47:26 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec7992a38eb4325fb7e8b606deae3c1ad99a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > There is a pretty decent review of the product done by CW. It's in PDF > form on the Moto Tote website. [Dave] I'll check it out... that is a good position for the Eyeabuser ;-) > I'm not sure what you mean by the integrity of the trailer hitch hole, but > they do mention the decreased ground clearance. [Dave] I'd just be concerned with that much weight on the bar... Fine on straight level pavement, but what about the pot hole, pavement rippled hell we have around here? > As to weighting the rear suspension, even my pimp-daddy SUV ;-) >can carry a LOT more weight in the rear than a motorcycle (~600 lbs w/mount) can deliver. [Dave] AND, more importantly, you can add moto-Bling Bling to your Pimp daddy SUV ! ;-) With innovations like this, how am I ever going to get TOWMBO to go for a used Powersmoke diesel ? :-/ > It would obviously effect handling/ride more, since it's behind the rear > axle, but so does having a trailer back there with a lot of tongue weight. > I routintely trailer my car (total weight ~5500lbs) and run about 10% of > my total trailer/car weight on the tongue. [Dave] That helps put some perspective on it.... > > Getting rear ended while carrying your bike back there would certainly > suck :-) I'd definitely use a cover, no since allowing someone to get hypnotized by the "cool bike on the back of that truck" and run right into it... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 3 22:11:59 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Bike GPS (was:Re: Convertibars (**WARNING!!** Actual moto content)) Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:13:12 -0500 On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:00:26 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote 1988 hawk GT 650. Sometimes when you push on the throttle and the gear is too tall it likes to buck around.... I am looking for a VFR800 sometime this fall or when I can get a good deal (98+ if you know anyone selling one). > No vibes here. What bike do you ride, Rob? My 'Busa is smooth as buttah. > 8-) Hey if your looking for a good way to spend about 70 bux it's great. > I've been considering a stemstand, but my zip tie solution works > well for me. :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 08:31:20 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 08:45:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: R1 Accident I'm sure this is being passed around the web, but it is an interesting crash... I love the post about R1s growing on trees :-) http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38479&perpage=15&pagenumber=1 -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 08:31:23 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 05:31:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: suggestion for tire mounting To: cschelin@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Fairfax Cycles mounted my rear tire. I dropped it off Tuesday afternoon at 5pm and it was ready Wednesday morning at 9:30am. $40 to mount a tire you bought elsewhere (may be more depending on model of bike). Their contact info is: 3156 F Spring St. Fairfax, VA 22031 (703) 591 8556 I usually talk with Casey Harrington when I call, but I think all the guys there are pretty good. I wouldn't say this shop is the best ever, but it's above average for this area from my experience and that of others. Let us know how it goes. -Kipp. ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 08:43:11 2003 From: "Jim Caldwell" To: Subject: How to use the Harbor Freight Tire Changer Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 08:42:15 -0400 X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Here is a great link to a photo essay on how to use the Harbor Freight tire changer (there is also one on plugging a tire). Several great tips on making the job easier. http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/tirechange Jim Caldwell Owings, MD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 09:57:02 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: MCI center bike parking Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:56:28 GMT Hi, I hope to head up to the MCI center for about 2.5 hours beginning at 11:30 this morning. Any suggestions on where to park a bike for that length of time? Any help would be appreciated. Please reply directly to me as I am on digest. Lisa '95 VFR --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 10:29:35 2003 Subject: New Tires From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 10:25:19 -0400 Ok, I used Crossroads Cycles to change my tires. $95 on the bike. Watching them work on it and on other bikes was very interesting. I also wandered through their selection of other bikes. Mostly Triumphs but there were a couple of others _including_a_Honda_750_chopper_. Woo hoo. I picked up a couple of ideas for my winter project bike. Anyway, they finished a little after 11am. I got myself straightened out with helmet and gloves, etc, got on the bike and started off and thought I was going to fall off the bike! The old tires were Dunlops and well worn. Being mainly a distance/commuter rider, my wear pattern is fairly flat and the Dunlops were about 4" wide. The Avons have a rounder cross-section and about 1 1/2" on the ground at any one time. In addition, the front tire cross-section changed a little. I think the circumferance is less than the Dunlops. Basically, from the feel of the front end, I think I have a skosh of tuck now. When I go into turns, it feels like the front end leading edge wants to drop. With the rounder rear tire it feels like the back end wants to pass the front. I'm getting used to it but it's a good thing I didn't get it done Thursday. I also changed the front brakes and replaced about half the brake fluid. There is about a quarter inch of play in the front brake lever. I still have to do the rear brake fluid. So new pads and skins with new fluids. I have to get a new rain suit and new totes. I've packed and repacked my stuff and am just about to the point where I have to get some saddlebags. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 10:35:29 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:35:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: New Tires To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX sounds like you need to bleed 'em better question: why replace only HALF of the fluid??? --- Carl Schelin wrote: > I also changed the front brakes and replaced about > half the brake > fluid. There is about a quarter inch of play in the front > brake lever. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 10:46:45 2003 Subject: Re: New Tires From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 10:42:31 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 10:35, Tom Gimer wrote: > sounds like you need to bleed 'em better > No no, that's a good thing. I was coming back about half-way. Now I barely touch them and the front brakes engage. It's lots better than it was. > question: why replace only HALF of the fluid??? > Well, I went down close to the entrance of the brake line. I wasn't interested in draining and replacing or bleeding them, just topping off. I didn't realize what a change it'd make. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 10:55:11 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Dave Yates'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Moto Tote Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:56:36 -0400 Welded one up in 1999 and dragged a bike 12K miles around the country. Worked. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Yates [SMTP:Dave@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 8:55 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Moto Tote > > Wayne showed us: > > I was thumbing through the latest Cycle World and saw an ad for this > hitch > > mounted bike hauler - http://www.mototote.com/ > > > > It looks like a good alternative to a motorcycle trailer. Anyone have > > experience using one? > > [Dave] Negative. I've seen a moped mounted to the front of an RV... The > only things I can see being issues are 1: I'd be worried about the > integrity of the mount in the trailer hitch hole, 2: limited ground > clearance because of the low hang, and weighting the rear suspension. > > But, like you say, a possible good trailer alternative. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 10:56:47 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 07:56:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Traffic Rule Question To: DC Cycles I think I know the answer to this, but need to confirm. 4-way intersection with lights. One set of lights (east-west) flashing Red. The other set (north-south) flashing yellow. Road is oneway south to north and oneway west to east. Many Veichles approaching from south to north. They are proceeding through the yellow light. A single veichle comes from west to east to the flashing red. Veichle stops for a few cars, but after a while just takes off through the intersection (perhaps one of the veichles going north slowed down and may have been thinking about stopping). As the veichle goes from a stop it almost creams me coming throught he intersection (with a yellow light). Does the car with the flashing red light have any right to go before all cars have proceeded throught the yellow flashing light? What responsibilities do cars going through a flashing yellow have? Thanks ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:05:58 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Traffic Rule Question Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:04:35 -0400 Flashing red is like a stop sign, flashing yellow means you have the rightaway. The car at the flashing red must yield to ALL cars on the other road. Flashing yellow means just go, but watch out for the piss poor drivers coming the other way that get confused. :) -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:57 AM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Traffic Rule Question > > > I think I know the answer to this, but need to > confirm. > > 4-way intersection with lights. One set of lights > (east-west) flashing Red. The other set (north-south) > flashing yellow. Road is oneway south to north and > oneway west to east. > > Many Veichles approaching from south to north. They > are proceeding through the yellow light. > > A single veichle comes from west to east to the > flashing red. Veichle stops for a few cars, but after > a while just takes off through the intersection > (perhaps one of the veichles going north slowed down > and may have been thinking about stopping). As the > veichle goes from a stop it almost creams me coming > throught he intersection (with a yellow light). > > Does the car with the flashing red light have any > right to go before all cars have proceeded throught > the yellow flashing light? What responsibilities do > cars going through a flashing yellow have? > > Thanks > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:16:23 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:16:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: "'DC Cycles'" Subject: RE: Traffic Rule Question On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > Flashing red is like a stop sign, flashing yellow means you have the > rightaway. The car at the flashing red must yield to ALL cars on the > other road. > > Flashing yellow means just go, but watch out for the piss poor drivers > coming the other way that get confused. :) Virginia code: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 I'm no lawyer, and it looks like the statute was poorly written, but it looks like it doesn't actually say that the people who have the flashing red have to yield right-of-way, or even to yield to others in the intersection -- only that they have to stop before entering the interesection. This appears like it would cover yielding right of way, but, it specifically says that it doesn't cover intersections which are controlled by a traffic signal: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-826 hmm. > -Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:57 AM > > To: DC Cycles > > Subject: Traffic Rule Question > > > > > > I think I know the answer to this, but need to > > confirm. > > > > 4-way intersection with lights. One set of lights > > (east-west) flashing Red. The other set (north-south) > > flashing yellow. Road is oneway south to north and > > oneway west to east. > > > > Many Veichles approaching from south to north. They > > are proceeding through the yellow light. > > > > A single veichle comes from west to east to the > > flashing red. Veichle stops for a few cars, but after > > a while just takes off through the intersection > > (perhaps one of the veichles going north slowed down > > and may have been thinking about stopping). As the > > veichle goes from a stop it almost creams me coming > > throught he intersection (with a yellow light). > > > > Does the car with the flashing red light have any > > right to go before all cars have proceeded throught > > the yellow flashing light? What responsibilities do > > cars going through a flashing yellow have? > > > > Thanks > > > > ===== > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:19:19 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 08:19:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: Traffic Rule Question To: "Daniel H. Brown" Cc: DC Cycles This was in DC, BTW. I had the right away, but we all know that does not mean squat if you get hit. The woman almost had a heart attack as I bore down on her right passenger door, horn blaring, on the break. I managed to stop only leaving a slight rubber mark on her door. --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > Flashing red is like a stop sign, flashing yellow > means you have the > > rightaway. The car at the flashing red must yield > to ALL cars on the > > other road. > > > > Flashing yellow means just go, but watch out for > the piss poor drivers > > coming the other way that get confused. :) > > Virginia code: > > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-833 > > I'm no lawyer, and it looks like the statute was > poorly written, but it > looks like it doesn't actually say that the people > who have the flashing > red have to yield right-of-way, or even to yield to > others in the > intersection -- only that they have to stop before > entering the > interesection. > > This appears like it would cover yielding right of > way, but, it > specifically says that it doesn't cover > intersections which are > controlled by a traffic signal: > > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-826 > > hmm. > > > > -Jim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Mark Kitchell > [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:57 AM > > > To: DC Cycles > > > Subject: Traffic Rule Question > > > > > > > > > I think I know the answer to this, but need to > > > confirm. > > > > > > 4-way intersection with lights. One set of > lights > > > (east-west) flashing Red. The other set > (north-south) > > > flashing yellow. Road is oneway south to north > and > > > oneway west to east. > > > > > > Many Veichles approaching from south to north. > They > > > are proceeding through the yellow light. > > > > > > A single veichle comes from west to east to the > > > flashing red. Veichle stops for a few cars, but > after > > > a while just takes off through the intersection > > > (perhaps one of the veichles going north slowed > down > > > and may have been thinking about stopping). As > the > > > veichle goes from a stop it almost creams me > coming > > > throught he intersection (with a yellow light). > > > > > > Does the car with the flashing red light have > any > > > right to go before all cars have proceeded > throught > > > the yellow flashing light? What > responsibilities do > > > cars going through a flashing yellow have? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:33:08 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:33:26 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Moto Tote At 09:19 PM 8/3/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >As to weighting the rear >suspension, even my pimp-daddy SUV ;-) can carry a LOT more weight in the >rear than a motorcycle (~600 lbs w/mount) can deliver. I wouldn't be so sure about that...check your hitch specs. My Grand Cherokee hitch will haul up to 6000 lbs, but the tongue weight limit is only about 500 lbs. In the case of the Moto Tote, the tongue weight is what you care about, as the entire weight of the bike and Tote are on the hitch vertically. You've also got a suspension problem in that the lever arm is a lot longer than if you had the same weight in the back seat, or even the cargo area. Besides dragging the rear end, you've also got the possibility of lifting the weight off the front wheels and affecting steering. Maybe it will work on your setup, but it wouldn't on mine...if the bike was much bigger than my old XT-550 anyway (315 lbs wet). I certainly wouldn't try to haul an FLSTC on it... :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:39:13 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: Moto Tote Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:37:51 -0400 That was my first impression also but GMC (maker of Wayne's pimp-daddy SUV) says that the tongue weight of 10-15% of the 7800 towing capacity is ok. That would be more than enough for a 500-600lb bike. Don't think I would do it on my Durango even with the 7400lb towing capacity though... I'd be afraid I need to step on the front brakes hard and there wouldn't be enough weight on them. -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Bartman [mailto:omni@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:33 AM > To: Wayne Edelen; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Moto Tote > > > At 09:19 PM 8/3/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >As to weighting the rear > >suspension, even my pimp-daddy SUV ;-) can carry a LOT more > weight in the > >rear than a motorcycle (~600 lbs w/mount) can deliver. > > I wouldn't be so sure about that...check your hitch specs. My Grand > Cherokee hitch will haul up to 6000 lbs, but the tongue > weight limit is > only about 500 lbs. In the case of the Moto Tote, the tongue > weight is > what you care about, as the entire weight of the bike and > Tote are on the > hitch vertically. > > You've also got a suspension problem in that the lever arm is > a lot longer > than if you had the same weight in the back seat, or even the > cargo area. > Besides dragging the rear end, you've also got the > possibility of lifting > the weight off the front wheels and affecting steering. > > Maybe it will work on your setup, but it wouldn't on > mine...if the bike was > much bigger than my old XT-550 anyway (315 lbs wet). I > certainly wouldn't > try to haul an FLSTC on it... :^) > > -- Mike Bartman > > ************************************************************** > ************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles > Stimulated * > *------------------------------------------------------------- > -------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too > high! * > ************************************************************** > ************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:39:31 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:53:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Moto Tote On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > I wouldn't be so sure about that...check your hitch specs. My Grand > Cherokee hitch will haul up to 6000 lbs, but the tongue weight limit is > only about 500 lbs. In the case of the Moto Tote, the tongue weight is > what you care about, as the entire weight of the bike and Tote are on the > hitch vertically. It depends greatly on your vehicle. A Jeep Grand Cherokee is a pretty small SUV. I've seen guys towing cars with them... scary. You can get receiver hitches with tongue weight ratings (non weight dist) of 500-1000lbs. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 11:54:14 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 11:50:12 -0400 To: DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Traffic Rule Question At 07:56 AM 8/4/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Does the car with the flashing red light have any >right to go before all cars have proceeded throught >the yellow flashing light? What responsibilities do >cars going through a flashing yellow have? Flashing red is the same as a stop sign. You stop, you yield to oncoming traffic, and you go. Flashing yellow is caution...sort of like a yield sign. You have right of way over those with flashing red, but you should be careful about it. When it's four way red flashing it's just like a four way stop sign...everyone stops, and the one with right of way goes first (first one there, with car to the right breaking ties). -- Mike "when on a bike I'm happy to yield to anyone if they insist even a little" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 12:24:13 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:23:58 -0400 From: "David Wakefield" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Question on older HD bagger ignition. . . My mom recently had my late father's old '81 AMF HD Tourglide put back together (running condition, anyway), and we're having trouble figuring out how to get the forks locked. The ignition key goes into a knob-looking thing. The key itself has a locked and unlocked position, and the knob has 5 settings: fork lock, off, on, lights, and access. With the key in or out, the knob will move freely between the last 4 settings (requires key to get out of access), but we can't get it into the fork lock position at all. The way it is, anyone can just walk up, start the bike and ride it away without the key. Is there a trick to getting the ignition knob into the fork lock position, or is it simply broken? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 12:57:41 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:56:30 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: David Wakefield CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Question on older HD bagger ignition. . . David Wakefield wrote: > My mom recently had my late father's old '81 AMF HD Tourglide put back > together (running condition, anyway), and we're having trouble figuring > out how to get the forks locked. > > The ignition key goes into a knob-looking thing. The key itself has a > locked and unlocked position, and the knob has 5 settings: fork lock, > off, on, lights, and access. > > With the key in or out, the knob will move freely between the last 4 > settings (requires key to get out of access), but we can't get it into > the fork lock position at all. The way it is, anyone can just walk up, > start the bike and ride it away without the key. > > Is there a trick to getting the ignition knob into the fork lock > position, or is it simply broken? Any help is appreciated. > > Thanks. My bagger is a `93. The TRICK? On mine, and probably yours, you have to push down on the knob thinger to get it over to fork lock. Use the barrel key to set the actual lock in locked position, turn handlebars all the way left *click*, forks be locked. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:00:13 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 12:59:55 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dwakefield@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Question on older HD bagger ignition. . . X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 I know my R6 is nothing compared to your bagger but, to lock the forks on it, you have to have them turned all the way left, push key in and turn it to the lock position. If you don't push it in, it doesn't go to lock. Don't know if this'll help or not. Scooter In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:23:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dwakefield@XXXXXX writes: > > > My mom recently had my late father's old '81 AMF HD Tourglide put back > together (running condition, anyway), and we're having trouble figuring > out how to get the forks locked. > > The ignition key goes into a knob-looking thing. The key itself has a > locked and unlocked position, and the knob has 5 settings: fork lock, > off, on, lights, and access. > > With the key in or out, the knob will move freely between the last 4 > settings (requires key to get out of access), but we can't get it into > the fork lock position at all. The way it is, anyone can just walk up, > start the bike and ride it away without the key. > > Is there a trick to getting the ignition knob into the fork > lock > position, or is it simply broken? Any help is appreciated. > > Thanks. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:03:49 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:03:28 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: bhuson@XXXXXX, dwakefield@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Question on older HD bagger ignition. . . X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 How 'bout that? I was actually pretty close to giving the correct answer. :-) Scooter In a message dated 8/4/2003 12:56:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > > > David Wakefield wrote: > > > My mom recently had my late father's old '81 AMF HD Tourglide put back > > together (running condition, anyway), and we're having trouble figuring > > out how to get the forks locked. > > > > The ignition key goes into a knob-looking thing. The key itself has a > > locked and unlocked position, and the knob has 5 settings: fork lock, > > off, on, lights, and access. > > > > With the key in or out, the knob will move freely between the last 4 > > settings (requires key to get out of access), but we can't get it into > > the fork lock position at all. The way it is, anyone can just walk up, > > start the bike and ride it away without the key. > > > > Is there a trick to getting the ignition knob into the fork lock > > position, or is it simply broken? Any help is appreciated. > > > > Thanks. > > My bagger is a `93. The TRICK? On mine, and probably yours, you have to > push down on the knob thinger to get it over to fork lock. Use the barrel > key to set the actual lock in locked position, turn > handlebars all the way > left *click*, forks be locked. > > Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:06:13 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:05:33 -0400 A bud of mine is moving up from his first m/c (an extensively road-tested 1981 KZ750), which successfully got him from his post-MSF stage through his first year. He has his heart set on a mid-size or larger cruiser. I know nothing about cruisers, so I have two questions: (1) Dealerships? Romney is a start... (2) Bike recommendations? He's 6' and 200lbs or so. Price is an issue. Thanks, all. --jon From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:12:57 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:26:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Question on older HD bagger ignition. . . On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > My bagger is a `93. The TRICK? On mine, and probably yours, you have to > push down on the knob thinger to get it over to fork lock. Use the barrel > key to set the actual lock in locked position, turn handlebars all the way > left *click*, forks be locked. > > Bill Hrm, I thought those older Harleys didn't have an integral fork lock. You used a padlock on the front, locking the forks to the front of the frame. There should be a loop there for this. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:17:39 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:31:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Jon Strang wrote: > A bud of mine is moving up from his first m/c (an extensively road-tested > 1981 KZ750), which successfully got him from his post-MSF stage through his > first year. He has his heart set on a mid-size or larger cruiser. I know > nothing about cruisers, so I have two questions: > > (1) Dealerships? Romney is a start... My local dealer (JT Motorsports) matched Romney's pricing when I was shopping for my Hayabusa. The only thing I can recommend is to go to a large dealership where he can test ride the used bikes. I just checked Battley Cycles and they have 2 decent cruisers listed - http://www.battley.com/pre_owned_list.asp?sid=05163385X8K4K2003J12I14I48JPMQ246R0 Both low miles and appear to be price reasonably. Any reason why he's not looking private sale, since money is an issue? > (2) Bike recommendations? He's 6' and 200lbs or so. Price is an issue. Have you ridden with him? How do you think he'd handle a larger bike? IMO, most cruisers are pretty easy to ride and generally don't have near the acceleration of bikes 1/2 their displacement. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:27:29 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 13:23:12 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [151.196.120.82] at Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:27:19 -0500 Jon Strang wrote: >A bud of mine is moving up from his first m/c (an extensively road-tested >1981 KZ750), which successfully got him from his post-MSF stage through his >first year. He has his heart set on a mid-size or larger cruiser. I know >nothing about cruisers, so I have two questions: > >(1) Dealerships? Romney is a start... >(2) Bike recommendations? He's 6' and 200lbs or so. Price is an issue. > John, I'm that tall, plus I've got a hell of a beer belly. My Marauder has a lot of bang for the buck. http://www.suzukicycles.com/sr_03/cruiser/fs_vl1500.htm Click on the Marauder MSRP $5,999 Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:27:47 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:27:29 -0400 Thanks, Wayne, I'll pass along the info. ----------------- Wayne wrote: > Any reason why he's not looking private sale, since money is an issue? I'm trying to get him to think that way, but he's stuck on new. > Have you ridden with him? How do you think he'd handle a larger bike? I don't think he'll have any problem with any cruiser V-twin. Also, he's mid 30s, and generally pretty happy with maintaining full functionality of all his body parts. In other words, he knows his limitations and is content to stay well within them. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 13:30:52 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:30:29 -0400 Thanks, Steven. He's actually looked at the Marauder and liked it... --jon ----- Steven wrote: > I'm that tall, plus I've got a hell of a beer belly. My > Marauder has a lot of bang for the buck. > http://www.suzukicycles.com/sr_03/cruiser/fs_vl1500.htm Click on the > Marauder MSRP $5,999 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:00:11 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 10:59:58 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX : > > (1) Dealerships? Romney is a start... > (2) Bike recommendations? He's 6' and 200lbs or so. > Price is an issue. > Cycle Sport in Alexandria had some pretty nice prices when I was there a couple of weeks ago, especially on the new '03's in the 750-1000cc range. I have never had any problems doing business with them, but that has been strictly limited to parts purchases. Loudon Motorsports also had some great prices, moreso with the cruisers than with the sportbikes. This was a couple of weeks ago but I can't imagine them going up, since everyone's trying to move all the '03's no one bought during the monsoon season. But I have never actually done business with them. Hope this helps a little! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:06:13 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dcpatti , Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- dcpatti wrote: > > Loudon Motorsports also had some great prices, moreso > with the cruisers than with the sportbikes. This was a > couple of weeks ago but I can't imagine them going up, > since everyone's trying to move all the '03's no one > bought during the monsoon season. But I have never > actually done business with them. consider yourself lucky! (see archives for loudon motorsport thrashing.) -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:25:25 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:25:14 EDT Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/4/2003 1:06:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > (2) Bike recommendations? Any recommendations I/we could make would be of little use. We may have something to say about a particular bike, like bad tranny or whatever _but_! A bike is a TOY! If it dont tickle your cookies it just aint gonna work. Your buddy needs to look at and sit on _every_ bike he/she can find, there should be one out there that grabbs a hold of em and will not let go. On the chance there are two or more of them, well then we can give an opinion. (our opinions will not agree, but we will give one anyhow.) This should be fun. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:30:24 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > Any recommendations I/we could make would be of little use. We may have > something to say about a particular bike, like bad tranny or whatever _but_! > A bike is a TOY! I'm actually sorta surprised to see you say that. I think, for many of us here, that a bike is more than just a toy. YMMV. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:33:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:33:02 EDT Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/4/2003 2:00:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > Cycle Sport in Alexandria had some pretty nice prices > > Loudon Motorsports also had some great prices, Price be damned! This seems like a newer rider that needs to find a dealer that will support him/her. Find a dealer that will be there when you need them, not just a price buster. I am willing (and have) paid more to a dealer I can work with. I know we can give opinions on dealers..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:45:20 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists? Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:45:13 -0400 http://www.vcomonline.org/ Anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this organization? Or about Tom McGrath, "the motorcycle lawyer?" The group seems to take credit for stuff that I think others deserve credit for (like M/Cs in the HOV lanes), and seems to be at least in part an advertising effort for Tom McGrath. OTOH, maybe it is really accomplishing some good stuff. (However, it's latest "triumph" seems to be eliminating the ban on handlebars more than 15 inches high, which I'm not sure is a good idea). What's the wisdom of the list? Is this organization worth contributing to or not? Thanks, Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:48:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:48:15 EDT Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/4/2003 2:30:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brown@XXXXXX writes: > I'm actually sorta surprised to see you say that. I think, for many of > us here, that a bike is more than just a toy. Well, I just developed a rash.... The bottom line is that none of us _needs_ a bike, scratch, scratch, itch, itch, we need transportation but a cage is more efficient year round, which is why most of us have cages in addition to our bikes. When we realize this it gets rid of the bullshit "reasons" for buying a bike that can lead to making a bad choice. A bike with saddle bags a trunk is more practical, you can use it to shop for groceries and ferry the S. O. to work.... Yea bullshit! If you do not buy what you really want you will live to regret your purchase. (I am sometimes jealous of weekend and fair weather riders, their choice in bikes is wide open. All weather, primary transportation riders (like me) need a "do it all" bike and that limits options. There are some bikes out there I would love to have (Ducks) but there is no way one will do everything _I_ need a bike to do.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:48:31 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Virginia Coalition of Motorcyclists? To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX "A lawyer than can make juries understand motorcycling AND your injuries" This from a guy with a picture of him riding helmetless..... --- Bob Meyer wrote: > http://www.vcomonline.org/ > > Anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this > organization? Or about Tom McGrath, "the motorcycle > lawyer?" > > The group seems to take credit for stuff that I > think others deserve credit for (like M/Cs in the > HOV lanes), and seems to be at least in part an > advertising effort for Tom McGrath. OTOH, maybe it > is really accomplishing some good stuff. (However, > it's latest "triumph" seems to be eliminating the > ban on handlebars more than 15 inches high, which > I'm not sure is a good idea). > > What's the wisdom of the list? Is this organization > worth contributing to or not? > > Thanks, > > Bob Meyer > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 14:55:08 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:54:45 -0400 From: rust To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: FS: 1990 FZR400 Reply-To: rust@XXXXXX Ok, My FZR400 really must go! 15.4k miles. stock + ohlins rear shock. $2400 pictures and more info: http://www.thornflux.com/fzr400/ -Eric _________________________________________________________ This mail sent using V-webmail - http://www.v-webmail.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:02:39 2003 Subject: E-Bay Listing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 14:58:25 -0400 Heh, Rita bought a pair of "fits over glasses" goggles which don't. She's been trying to get a response from the guy on e-bay to get a refund and has been getting the cold shoulder. Revenge only costs 30 cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34355&item=2426597830 or just search 2426597830 Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:12:42 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Heh, > > Rita bought a pair of "fits over glasses" goggles > which don't. She's > been trying to get a response from the guy on e-bay to > get a refund and > has been getting the cold shoulder. > > Revenge only costs 30 cents: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34355&item=2426597830 > > or just search 2426597830 revenge might only cost $0.30 today, but, with the right lawyer, thou$ands tomorrow! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:21:09 2003 Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing From: Carl Schelin To: Tom Gimer Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 15:16:55 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 15:12, Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Heh, > > > > Rita bought a pair of "fits over glasses" goggles > > which don't. She's > > been trying to get a response from the guy on e-bay to > > get a refund and > > has been getting the cold shoulder. > > > > Revenge only costs 30 cents: > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34355&item=2426597830 > > > > or just search 2426597830 > > revenge might only cost $0.30 today, but, with the right > lawyer, thou$ands tomorrow! > Why? Nothing she said was false. She even tried the ebay mediation which failed. And she's even trying to pass on information about the goggles themselves; don't buy these without the correct glasses (I though she'd need some sort of inset glasses rather than hers). Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:25:26 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:25:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing On 4 Aug 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > revenge might only cost $0.30 today, but, with the right > > lawyer, thou$ands tomorrow! > > > > Why? Nothing she said was false. The truth only matters on the X-Files. Whoever has the best lawyer, wins. Tom, or other Esq's correct me if I'm wrong, but the word here is "libel" ?? (not Liable, which among other things, isn't a noun) -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:29:41 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:30:04 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: FS: 1990 FZR400 >http://www.thornflux.com/fzr400/ > >-Eric Man, what a beauty! An *un-raced* '90 FZR400? Pretty rare....wish I had $2.4k kicking around... -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:42:03 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:40:58 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/4/2003 2:30:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > brown@XXXXXX writes: > > > I'm actually sorta surprised to see you say that. I think, for many of > > us here, that a bike is more than just a toy. > > Well, I just developed a rash.... > > The bottom line is that none of us _needs_ a bike, scratch, scratch, itch, > itch, we need transportation but a cage is more efficient year round, which is > why most of us have cages in addition to our bikes. When we realize this it > gets rid of the bullshit "reasons" for buying a bike that can lead to making a > bad choice. A bike with saddle bags a trunk is more practical, you can use it to > shop for groceries and ferry the S. O. to work.... > Yea bullshit! > If you do not buy what you really want you will live to regret your purchase. > > (I am sometimes jealous of weekend and fair weather riders, their choice in > bikes is wide open. All weather, primary transportation riders (like me) need a > "do it all" bike and that limits options. There are some bikes out there I > would love to have (Ducks) but there is no way one will do everything _I_ need > a bike to do.) > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC I agree. Rational reasons for riding are just that, rationalitys. We ride because it's COOL! It's a giggle! Where else can you get a stiffy without saying I love you and buying her roses? Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:42:15 2003 Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 15:38:02 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 15:25, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > On 4 Aug 2003, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > revenge might only cost $0.30 today, but, with the right > > > lawyer, thou$ands tomorrow! > > > > > > > Why? Nothing she said was false. > > The truth only matters on the X-Files. Whoever has the best lawyer, wins. > > Tom, or other Esq's correct me if I'm wrong, but the word here is > "libel" ?? > I dunno. Libel is still "A false publication that damages a persons reputation". You could get that for just the negative review and it's not false. Ah well, we won't live in fear of lawyers. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:47:24 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:46:12 -0400 Dude! Remind me to never have you ride pillion on my bike... ;^) Perry >From: "William J. Huson" >To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's >Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 15:40:58 -0400 > snip >I agree. Rational reasons for riding are just that, rationalitys. We ride >because >it's COOL! It's a giggle! Where else can you get a stiffy without saying >I love >you and buying her roses? > >Bill > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:49:58 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 12:49:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: "William J. Huson" , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > I agree. Rational reasons for riding are just that, > rationalitys. We ride because > it's COOL! It's a giggle! Where else can you get a > stiffy without saying I love > you and buying her roses? check out the washington post sports page for the nearest massage parlor "grand opening".... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 15:55:57 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:55:34 -0400 From: rust To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: FS: 1990 FZR400 Reply-To: rust@XXXXXX Sean Jordan wrote: > > >http://www.thornflux.com/fzr400/ > > > >-Eric > > Man, what a beauty! An *un-raced* '90 FZR400? Pretty rare....wish I had > $2.4k kicking around... Yes sir, a rare bird indeed! I even have to stock shock for it. I bought it with the intent on getting on the track, then promptly lost my garage space and it ended up as my everyday ride instead. I think it's worth more than $2.4k,but it's gotta go. -Eric _________________________________________________________ This mail sent using V-webmail - http://www.v-webmail.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 16:22:35 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:22:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing To: Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Carl Schelin wrote: > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 15:12, Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > Heh, > > > > > > Rita bought a pair of "fits over glasses" goggles > > > which don't. She's > > > been trying to get a response from the guy on e-bay > to > > > get a refund and > > > has been getting the cold shoulder. > > > > > > Revenge only costs 30 cents: > > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34355&item=2426597830 > > > > > > or just search 2426597830 > > > > revenge might only cost $0.30 today, but, with the > right > > lawyer, thou$ands tomorrow! > > > > Why? Nothing she said was false. don't be so sure about that! do these things "not fit over glasses" or just "not fit over rita's glasses"? that said, i wasn't specifically referring to libel/slander/defamation. it seems to me that, rather than wait for a refund of some piddly amount, rita has decided to publicly flog the seller. "DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY!" seems a bit excessive. does it reach the tortious interference with contract level? who knows. will anything come of it? not likely, but.... > She even tried the ebay > mediation which > failed. And she's even trying to pass on information > about the goggles > themselves; don't buy these without the correct glasses > (I though she'd > need some sort of inset glasses rather than hers). and you may make a wonderful witness for the plaintiff, my friend! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 16:28:44 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 16:28:26 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dcpatti@XXXXXX, jmstrang@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 I second the Cycle Sport recommendation. I bought my R6 off of them and have had every bike I've owned services by them. Nice folks. Scooter In a message dated 8/4/2003 1:59:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > > > : > > > > (1) Dealerships? Romney is a start... > > (2) Bike recommendations? He's 6' and 200lbs or so. > > Price is an issue. > > > Cycle Sport in Alexandria had some pretty nice prices > when I was there a couple of weeks ago, especially on > the new '03's in the 750-1000cc range. I have never > had any problems doing business with them, but that > has been strictly limited to parts purchases. > > Loudon Motorsports also had some great prices, moreso > with the cruisers than with the sportbikes. This was a > couple of weeks ago but I can't imagine them going up, > since everyone's trying to move all the '03's no one > bought during the monsoon season. But I have never > actually done business with them. > > Hope this helps a little! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 16:30:04 2003 Subject: Re: E-Bay Listing From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 16:25:50 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 16:22, Tom Gimer wrote: > don't be so sure about that! do these things "not fit over > glasses" or just "not fit over rita's glasses"? Yea, good point there. She does have rather small glasses though. > that said, > i wasn't specifically referring to > libel/slander/defamation. it seems to me that, rather than > wait for a refund of some piddly amount, It's not like she waited a day or two, she's been trying to get a response from this guy for a month. > rita has decided > to publicly flog the seller. She does that in the feed back section. > "DO NOT BUY! DO NOT BUY!" > seems a bit excessive. does it reach the tortious > interference with contract level? who knows. will > anything come of it? not likely, but.... > > > She even tried the ebay > > mediation which > > failed. And she's even trying to pass on information > > about the goggles > > themselves; don't buy these without the correct glasses > > > > (I though she'd > > need some sort of inset glasses rather than hers). > > and you may make a wonderful witness for the plaintiff, my > friend! > Then I'll keep my trap shut :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:10:07 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:10:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: BikeNight Reminder To: DC Cycles Hope to see many of you there: Yes, we're going to do a Bike Night this year. Sunday, August 10th, 5-9pm. Grevey's Restaurant & Sports Bar, 8130 Arlington Blvd., Falls Church, VA (intersection of Route 50 and Gallows Rd.), www.greveys.com. But this will be more than the "usual" Bike Night. This particular Bike Night will be in memory of my good friend Pete Wysocki, who recently passed away after losing his battle with cancer. I'm sure many of you remember Pete from his years as a Redsking. Some (many?) of you met Pete at previous Bike Nights. He was an avid motorcyclist and the guy who got me into motorcycling. He loved coming to Bike Nights, looking at all the different motorcycles, and talking with everyone. And his being at Bike Nights was never about Pete -- it was always about the motorcycles and him getting to meet the people that rode them. Kevin Grevey has generously agreed to donate a portion of the evening's proceeds to a local cancer-related charity. I'm still working with Gretchen Thompson (Pete's fiancee) to determine the exact charity. Direct contributions would also be welcomed and appreciated. When I have all the details finalized, I'll post all the relevant info on the Bike Night web page www.geocities.com/bikenight. In the meantime, please pass this info along to anyone and everyone else in the motorcycling community. Let's get a big crowd and see if we can't break triple digits for the number of motorcycles. I know Pete would be smiling and want to see them all. Chuck ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:24:22 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Tire blew out today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was on the SE expressway this morning doing about 60 mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I heard the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my bike started fishtailing and I knew something was wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and was able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder w/o going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its original tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, it was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I should never have been riding on those tires (the front was better, but still not great). How the hell long are moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:30:41 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 17:18:08 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: DCCycles Subject: Selling my cage..shameless plug... Hey Gang, I app. for taking a slot for personal reasons but I'm leaving the country soon and am trying to sell my cage. I figgured I'd give it a shot if anyone is interested or knows anyone interested. What it is: -1989 Acura Integra 2 Door hatch -Red/black -5 speed -218k (I know it's high but these cars run forever and was mostly hwy.) -Recently replaced: engine oil, trans fluid, fuel filter, rear lift gate supports, air filter -Pirelli P4000 tires (~4500miles on them) -Alloy wheels -4 wheel disc brakes -Trailer hitch w/ ball and light harness -Alpine head unit -Upgraded interior speakers -Recently replaced front shocks with KYB's -Bought rear shocks but didn't install - still in box, will include. -Heavy duty clutch -No Rust Could use: -Allignment -Better springs -Tune/up- FI flush. -Has A/C installed but is now disconnected. Asking: $1000. $50 to anyone if they playbroker dude for succesful sale. Thanks, Carlo (703.587.4135) And now back to yout regularly scheduled banter... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:35:42 2003 Subject: Re: Tire blew out today From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 17:31:27 -0400 Mine lasted until 16,500 but they were in the same state as yours. I was riding real careful until I got them changed. Of course everything depends on your driving style. Having a Harley, I normally don't hit the twisties. Most of my riding is commuting with some touring/twisties thrown in for good measure. What are you riding? Carl On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:24, Isaac Blanck wrote: > I was on the SE expressway this morning doing about 60 > mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I heard > the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my > bike started fishtailing and I knew something was > wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and was > able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder w/o > going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its original > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, it > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I should > never have been riding on those tires (the front was > better, but still not great). How the hell long are > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:39:30 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:53:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Tire blew out today On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, Isaac Blanck wrote: > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its original > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, it > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I should > never have been riding on those tires (the front was > better, but still not great). How the hell long are > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib It really depends on the bike. High perf bikes that are ridden hard, 3000-5000 miles out of a rear and 10k out of the fronts is normal. Do you have a chain drive bike? If so, I'd get under there and clean/lube the chain. That's a perfect time to be inspecting the tires, shocks, cables and such. I'm in there every ~500 miles cleaning and lubing mine. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:49:56 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:49:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Tire blew out today To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I ride a Suzuki Marauder (cruiser), 2001; it's got a chain. I do a combination of city riding and weekend trips. Probably just your average riding, not particularly hard or easy. I took it to the dealer because it was due for some routine maintenance, but in the future, is there a better and/or cheaper place to get reliable tires? jib --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Mine lasted until 16,500 but they were in the same > state as yours. I was > riding real careful until I got them changed. > > Of course everything depends on your driving style. > Having a Harley, I > normally don't hit the twisties. Most of my riding > is commuting with > some touring/twisties thrown in for good measure. > > What are you riding? > > Carl > > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:24, Isaac Blanck wrote: > > I was on the SE expressway this morning doing > about 60 > > mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I > heard > > the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my > > bike started fishtailing and I knew something was > > wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and > was > > able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder > w/o > > going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got > > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its > original > > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, > it > > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I > should > > never have been riding on those tires (the front > was > > better, but still not great). How the hell long > are > > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 17:58:15 2003 Subject: Re: Tire blew out today From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 04 Aug 2003 17:54:02 -0400 http://www.discountmotorcycletire.com is where I got mine. I used Crossroads Cycles in Bailey's Crossroads to change them. Search back a few days for various listings of other recommendations for local shops if you're not in that area. Carl On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:49, Isaac Blanck wrote: > I ride a Suzuki Marauder (cruiser), 2001; it's got a > chain. I do a combination of city riding and weekend > trips. Probably just your average riding, not > particularly hard or easy. I took it to the dealer > because it was due for some routine maintenance, but > in the future, is there a better and/or cheaper place > to get reliable tires? jib > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Mine lasted until 16,500 but they were in the same > > state as yours. I was > > riding real careful until I got them changed. > > > > Of course everything depends on your driving style. > > Having a Harley, I > > normally don't hit the twisties. Most of my riding > > is commuting with > > some touring/twisties thrown in for good measure. > > > > What are you riding? > > > > Carl > > > > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 17:24, Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > I was on the SE expressway this morning doing > > about 60 > > > mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I > > heard > > > the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my > > > bike started fishtailing and I knew something was > > > wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and > > was > > > able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder > > w/o > > > going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got > > > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its > > original > > > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, > > it > > > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I > > should > > > never have been riding on those tires (the front > > was > > > better, but still not great). How the hell long > > are > > > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > > > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 18:03:02 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 15:02:47 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > Price be damned! This seems like a newer rider that > needs to find a dealer > that will support him/her. Find a dealer that will > be there when you need them, > not just a price buster In theory, yes, but this guy has a wide circle of riding friends who can help with tips on riding, wrenching, and dealing with the dealership. I really think he is looking for a price buster. I've always turned first to my friends/mentors for advice and help, then to books/manuals. But then again, I've never bought a bike new. Let someone else eat the depreciation and all. Realistically, though, what kind of stuff will a dealer do for you? I'm not being sarcastic so please don't read that wrong! I'm really wondering what you can expect from a dealer in terms of support, when you buy a new bike. I'd personally think all dealers are the same, since the warranty comes from the manufacturer and you can take it to any shop from the same manufacturer, if it needs warranty work, so why not go to the cheapest guy? So what will a good dealer do for you, that a bad dealer won't? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 18:15:03 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 18:28:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's On Mon, 4 Aug 2003, dcpatti wrote: > So what will a good dealer do for you, that a bad > dealer won't? My dealer offered a discount on parts when I purchased my bike there. I've since built a relationship with the parts guys and get an even bigger discount. For me, a relationship with a vendor (like the dealer) is purely monetary. If they offer me the same discounts that I can receive online, I will buy there and also send business their way. I have done with with automotive parts, too. I was able to setup a discount account at my local GM dealer for parts and often receive parts near actual cost. I have sent at least 100 people to them in return for the great prices and they have always passed on the discounts to people that I referred. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 21:28:47 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:27:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Isaac Blanck CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Tire blew out today Isaac Blanck wrote: > I was on the SE expressway this morning doing about 60 > mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I heard > the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my > bike started fishtailing and I knew something was > wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and was > able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder w/o > going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its original > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, it > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I should > never have been riding on those tires (the front was > better, but still not great). How the hell long are > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib T-CLOKS pre-ride inspection. The T stands for TIRES!!! If you had no clue you were riding on a baldie, I doubt you've checked tire pressure since the dealer kicked it out the door. You got lucky. Unless you're a cat with nine lives, learn T-CLOKS and use it! (page 15 in your Basic Rider Course manual) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 21:46:49 2003 Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2003 21:46:48 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Tire blew out today At 09:27 PM 8/4/2003, William J. Huson wrote: >T-CLOKS pre-ride inspection. The T stands for TIRES!!! If you had no >clue you were riding on a baldie, I doubt you've checked tire pressure >since the dealer kicked it out the door. You got lucky. Unless you're >a cat with nine lives, learn T-CLOKS and use it! (page 15 in your Basic >Rider Course manual) Speaking of which ... I checked my tire pressures today and they both dropped to 24 in the last three weeks. Weird - they held a steady 32 all winter and spring, except when I ran over the nail and patched the rear. No leaking on the patch though - unless I now have a nail in the front I couldn't find! I checked the pressure daily after the patch for two weeks, but I haven't been as religious about it lately. Dumb. Its so easy now with a garage and air compressor. Picked up a cool tire inflator attachment with a built in gauge. $4! No more pump-and-test. Thanks again Harbor Freight! About a month ago I had electrical problems with the VFR (shocker!) which I assumed to be another dying RR. A $40 trip to Wal-Mart and a night of charging a new battery has cured all ills. 3 years seems to be all I can get out of a battery on the bike, even though I commute on it 3-4 times a week an hour each way. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 4 22:01:01 2003 Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 22:00:50 -0400 Subject: Cover of August Washingtonian From: Randy Moran To: DC Cycles The article is titled "What's Cool" and features several pics of bike of various types. http://www.washingtonian.com/ RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 08:04:28 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Randy Moran'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:03:58 -0400 I saw that this morning. It said that the ducati monster was the coolest motorcycle of the year along with a plug for Rockville Harley. Can we say free ad. -----Original Message----- From: Randy Moran [mailto:rjmoran@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:01 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Cover of August Washingtonian The article is titled "What's Cool" and features several pics of bike of various types. http://www.washingtonian.com/ RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:03:13 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:03:07 EDT Subject: Re: Tire blew out today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/4/2003 9:47:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > Picked up a cool tire inflator > attachment with a built in gauge. $4! Was the "sudden" pressure drop show up the first time you used the new gauge? I would compare your old gauge to the new one and maybe even a third. A gauge is only good if it is accurate. If it is wrong it could create more problems then it cures. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:05:14 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 06:05:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian To: "Silver, Arthur \(NIH/NIGMS\)" , "'Randy Moran'" , DC Cycles That magazine sucks! I cancelled my subscribtion over that entire issue. I stopped counting after reading the word hip 15 times. This club is hip, this restaurant is hip, etc. The day I need the Washingtonian to tell me what is hip, thats the day I move to a retirement community. mark --- "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > I saw that this morning. It said that the ducati > monster was the coolest > motorcycle of the year along with a plug for > Rockville Harley. Can we say > free ad. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Moran [mailto:rjmoran@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:01 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Cover of August Washingtonian > > The article is titled "What's Cool" and features > several pics of bike > of various types. > > http://www.washingtonian.com/ > > RPM > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:14:47 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:14:38 EDT Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/4/2003 6:03:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > So what will a good dealer do for you, that a bad > dealer won't? Actually fix a problem? Not take short cuts in warranty work? Go ahead and fix "gray" problems, problems that they could arguably deny your claim on? Not put you on the bottom of the "to do" list? Call the manufacturer about a just off warranty fix, so it gets fixed under warranty? Support the sport in general so that others will join the fun? Good dealers are just that, good for the sport, and they cannot stay in business without our support. Bad dealers cost us members (riders) who get out of the sport rather then go through the hassle and expense created by bad dealers. We need to support good dealers even if it costs us a little more. We need to shun bad dealers under any circumstances. John Walters (Long John) A total of _8_ years as a motorcycle mechanic and a year in sales. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:17:17 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:16:59 EDT Subject: Re: Tire blew out today To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/5/2003 9:03:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX writes: > Was the "sudden" pressure drop show up Dear lord! ..._Did_ the sudden pressure drop show up.... Coffee! Must have coffee! John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:26:25 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'Randy Moran'" , DC Cycles Subject: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:25:50 -0400 I agree that magazine does suck. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:05 AM To: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS); 'Randy Moran'; DC Cycles Subject: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian That magazine sucks! I cancelled my subscribtion over that entire issue. I stopped counting after reading the word hip 15 times. This club is hip, this restaurant is hip, etc. The day I need the Washingtonian to tell me what is hip, thats the day I move to a retirement community. mark --- "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > I saw that this morning. It said that the ducati > monster was the coolest > motorcycle of the year along with a plug for > Rockville Harley. Can we say > free ad. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Moran [mailto:rjmoran@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 10:01 PM > To: DC Cycles > Subject: Cover of August Washingtonian > > The article is titled "What's Cool" and features > several pics of bike > of various types. > > http://www.washingtonian.com/ > > RPM > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:27:24 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 09:26:27 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Tire blew out today (tire gauge reading) At 09:03 AM 8/5/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >_DID_ the "sudden" pressure drop show up the first time you used the new >gauge? >I would compare your old gauge to the new one and maybe even a third. A gauge >is only good if it is accurate. If it is wrong it could create more problems >then it cures. Good thought, but no. I checked with the old gauge first to make sure they matched readings! ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:44:14 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 09:43:55 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Chatty Morons CC: Concours Owners Group , LD Riders , DC Cycles Subject: sig change Feeling the need to update my sig, with the Big Dance coming up shortly. Some of y'all may remember this quote in my sig file a few years ago. I still really like it. Kudos to Todd Peer for clueing me into Milissa Holbrook Pierson's book, "The Perfect Vehicle", from where this quote originated. It's an interesting read. Ride safe, Horkster -- Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "I started riding away from home in Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth order to feel the sweet sensation of Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG missing it at the same time I love leaving it." - Melissa H. Pierson '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 09:57:30 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 9:57:23 -0400 > That magazine sucks! I cancelled my subscribtion over > that entire issue. I stopped counting after reading > the word hip 15 times. This club is hip, this > restaurant is hip, etc. The day I need the > Washingtonian to tell me what is hip, thats the day I > move to a retirement community. That may be, but any positive reporting, about motorcycles, in the mainstream press is a good thing. Bob Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:03:52 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 07:03:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, DC Cycles What was positive about the reporting? --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > That magazine sucks! I cancelled my subscribtion > over > > that entire issue. I stopped counting after > reading > > the word hip 15 times. This club is hip, this > > restaurant is hip, etc. The day I need the > > Washingtonian to tell me what is hip, thats the > day I > > move to a retirement community. > > That may be, but any positive reporting, about > motorcycles, in the mainstream press is a good > thing. > > Bob > > Bob Meyer > '92 Standard > STOC # 1157 > > If you can't be a good example, then you'll just > have to be a horrible warning. > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:04:06 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 07:03:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: sig change To: Dale Horstman Cc: DC Cycles fyi: your sig wraps improperly in my screen, creating a jumbled, chatty mess. --- Dale Horstman wrote: > Feeling the need to update my sig, with the Big Dance > coming up shortly. Some of y'all may remember this > quote in my sig file a few years ago. I still really > like it. > > Kudos to Todd Peer for clueing me into Milissa Holbrook > Pierson's book, "The Perfect Vehicle", from where this > quote originated. It's an interesting read. > > Ride safe, > Horkster > -- > Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "I started riding > away from home > in > Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth order to feel the > sweet sensation > of > Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG missing it at the > same time I > love > leaving it." - > Melissa H. Pierson > '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer > '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi > '82 Suzuki GS850G > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:15:55 2003 Subject: Re: Tire blew out today From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Aug 2003 10:11:38 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 21:27, William J. Huson wrote: > Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > I was on the SE expressway this morning doing about 60 > > mph when my rear tire blew out. At first when I heard > > the noise I thought it was a backfire, but then my > > bike started fishtailing and I knew something was > > wrong. Luckily I was in the right hand lane and was > > able to bring the bike to a stop on the shoulder w/o > > going down. An unnerving few seconds. I've got > > nearly 9k miles on the bike, which had its original > > tires (Dunlop). When I looked at the rear tire, it > > was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. I should > > never have been riding on those tires (the front was > > better, but still not great). How the hell long are > > moto tires supposed to last? I probably should've > > changed these 1500-2000 miles ago. jib > > T-CLOKS pre-ride inspection. The T stands for TIRES!!! If you had no > clue you were riding on a baldie, I doubt you've checked tire pressure > since the dealer kicked it out the door. You got lucky. Unless you're > a cat with nine lives, learn T-CLOKS and use it! (page 15 in your Basic > Rider Course manual) > I checked my new ones when I got home Saturday from getting them mounted and found the stem hub nut was about half way off. > Bill > That's why we need you here Bill. Tell it like it is :-) BTW, Rita failed her MSF on Friday. She found that about every other curve she'd go outside the line. Prior to the test Friday, the group was supposed to run through everything one more time but they ran out of time and a small group didn't get a practice run. I told her that it was probably a good thing she failed and that we'll practice it before taking her in for the MC test at DMV. She's happy about taking the class though. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:17:26 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:17:13 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Tom Gimer CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: sig change Tom Gimer wrote: > > fyi: your sig wraps improperly in my screen, creating a > jumbled, chatty mess. Yeah, I got some complaints already - I think I fixed it. Thanks, Hork -- Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG "I started riding away from home in order to feel the sweet sensation of '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer missing it at the same time I love '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi leaving it." '82 Suzuki GS850G - Melissa Holbrook Pierson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:17:43 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:15:58 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Car and Bike Show 8-16 Car and Bike Show 8-16 http://www.starsnbars.org/ Wife's friend has a couple of cars in the show. They have put on good shows in the past. Support Your Troops! The Stars-N-Bars Rockin' Roadshow was created by the members of the Cheater Slicks Car Club and co-sponsored by Road And Rider National Motorcycle Association in order to bring together men and women who share similar interests. From cars and bikes, to bands to clothes to the traditional way of life, you will find people of many different backgrounds with many similar interests coming together in order to support local military men and women. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:24:03 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:23:51 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: horkster@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: sig change X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Nice quote. Too bad it came out all screwed up. :-( See below. Scooter In a message dated 8/5/2003 9:43:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, horkster@XXXXXX writes: > > > Feeling the need to update my sig, with the Big Dance > coming up shortly. Some of y'all may remember this > quote in my sig file a few years ago. I still really > like it. > > Kudos to Todd Peer for clueing me into Milissa Holbrook > Pierson's book, "The Perfect Vehicle", from where this > quote originated. It's an interesting read. > > Ride safe, > Horkster > -- > Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX "I started riding away from home > in > Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth order to feel the sweet sensation > of > Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG missing it at the same time I > love > leaving it." - Melissa > H. Pierson > '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer > '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi > '82 Suzuki GS850G From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:26:49 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:26:40 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: sig change ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > Nice quote. Too bad it came out all screwed up. :-( See below. Yeah, I'm a Moron, I think I got it figured out now. Hork -- Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG "I started riding away from home in '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer order to feel the sweet sensation of '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi missing it at the same time I love '82 Suzuki GS850G leaving it." - Melissa H. Pierson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:29:21 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:25:10 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [151.196.120.82] at Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:29:10 -0500 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >Yea bullshit! >If you do not buy what you really want you will live to regret your purchase. > >(I am sometimes jealous of weekend and fair weather riders, their choice in >bikes is wide open. All weather, primary transportation riders (like me) need a >"do it all" bike and that limits options. There are some bikes out there I >would love to have (Ducks) but there is no way one will do everything _I_ need >a bike to do.) > John, One bike can't do it all. That's why I'm workin' on gettin' 4. I got my Sporty (ish) Suzuki Katana, I've got my Cruiser, the Suzuki Marauder. I'm waiting on Suzuki to put out their replacement for the Cavalcade. (I'm thinking it might be in 04. An 1800 cc Intruder, outfitted like Harley's Ultra Classic. I'm hopin' :-) ) plus I need a Dual Sport, Suzuki DR-Z 400S Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 10:30:06 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 10:29:55 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: horkster@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: sig change X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 That sorta works better. I have to max my message window for it to wrap properly but, it works. :-) Scooter In a message dated 8/5/2003 10:26:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, horkster@XXXXXX writes: > > > ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > Nice quote. Too bad it came out all screwed up. :-( See below. > > > Yeah, I'm a Moron, I think I got it figured out now. > > Hork > -- > Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX > Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth > Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG > "I started riding away from home in > '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer order to feel the sweet sensation of > '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi missing it at the same time I love > '82 Suzuki GS850G leaving it." - > Melissa H. Pierson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 11:40:37 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:40:30 -0400 > > From: Mark Kitchell > Date: 2003/08/05 Tue AM 10:03:50 EDT > To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, DC Cycles > Subject: Re: RE: Cover of August Washingtonian > > What was positive about the reporting? > Considering motorcycles as "cool" or "hip," rather than as dangerous, loud, noisy trash ridden by drug crazed gang members? I think, for the mainstream press, that's pretty positive. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:16:32 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:16:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: DC Cycles I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. Here's my dilemma: I passed my MSF Basic earlier in the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written exam, and got my Learner's Permit. LP in hand, I've tried to test ride bikes. Nothing doing at all the dealers I've been to. They all want an endorsement on my license. Fair enough. I wouldn't let me test ride either. It does mean I need to take the road test to get the endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' bikes. They won't check my license, right? Thoughts? Stifled laughter? -- Sean Steele Washington, DC "Anybody have a good used Suzuki Bandit?" __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:23:50 2003 Subject: Trip map From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 05 Aug 2003 17:19:37 -0400 I'm doing lots of prep work before heading out Friday. I have a bunch of underlying html on this site but initially, the tour map is up. http://www.schelin.org/personal/boise/index.html I've check the 10 day forecast for the trip west. When I get to Boise, I'll check the return trip. Tomorrow many of the links will be up including more detailed maps. I'm using the Boise pages as my trip folder so it'll need to be complete before I leave. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:30:04 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles The first bike I bought was used, and I was looking at old/cheap bikes. I typically explained to the owner that I'd just passed the msf course and wanted to start w/ something that wasn't that new/expensive to see if I liked riding. This let them know that I was a beginner, and I don't recall them asking too many questions beyond that. Alternatively, I think lots of folks buy w/o test ridin ... Guess that's not the end of the world, as you'll probably want to upgrade your first bike fairly soon. jib --- Sean Steele wrote: > I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. > > Here's my dilemma: I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. > > LP in hand, I've tried to test ride bikes. Nothing > doing at all the dealers I've been to. They all want > an endorsement on my license. Fair enough. I > wouldn't > let me test ride either. > > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of > my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' > bikes. > They won't check my license, right? > > Thoughts? Stifled laughter? > > -- > Sean Steele > Washington, DC > > "Anybody have a good used Suzuki Bandit?" > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:31:30 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: "Sean Steele" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:53:05 -0400 > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. Borrow someone's bike...I'm sure someone's got an old beater that they could let you use for the test. My first bike was a new GS500...didn't test drive it, though. Was just happy to have a bike that my feet could reach the ground on. :) LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:35:01 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:48:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Sean Steele wrote: > I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. Welcome to the list and to motorcycling :-) > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' bikes. > They won't check my license, right? I have never allowed test rides when selling bikes. I've offered to draw up a bill of sale with a buy-back in x minutes if the buyer wasn't happy after riding the bike. I think you'll find many private sellers will not allow test rides. My advice is to pick up an inexpensive, older standard. Ride it for a year and then decide which way you want to go with another bike. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:43:53 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:43:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles --- Sean Steele wrote: > I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. > > Here's my dilemma: I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. > > LP in hand, I've tried to test ride bikes. Nothing > doing at all the dealers I've been to. They all want > an endorsement on my license. Fair enough. I wouldn't > let me test ride either. > > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out during your test ride and then perhaps we can suggest some ideas for you. my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually useless. for me, without a 200+ mile ride, i'll never know how much i need to alter a bike's setup.... i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read up on which bikes maintain their values; and also read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source). as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks abound. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 17:59:25 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:59:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Steele Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: DC Cycles Tom, > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > suggest some ideas for you. I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right now. I think I want something that will be an all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I want some storage room. And I want to be able to do some mods to the bike without having much in the way of a garage. That's about it. I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what they call "standard"? > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > useless. Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of vehicles (and big purchases in general). > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and meet my basic requirements. Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like from what I know to be a reputable source? > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > abound. Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the best... -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 18:20:56 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:22:13 -0500 You don't get your MC endorsement when you pass the MSF course. Thats a LOAD! I took the MSF in NY State and at the completion of the course (assuming you pass) you get your MC endorsement. The whole point of this MSF/endorsement idea was to cut down on people riding with just permits and actually help people start riding the right way from the start. When I got my first bike (which I still ride) I researched a lot of different bikes depending on the opinions of others. Anyhow I got my bike used when I still only had a permit. I got on it, rode it around the block a bit and loved it (I probaly would have loved anything :) I bought it two days later. You probaly should look for things like: doesn't weight a lot, has enough power but not a ton, and handles very easily so you can do figure 8's on it with ease. Regards, Rob On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:16:28 -0700 (PDT), Sean Steele wrote > I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. > > Here's my dilemma: I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. > > LP in hand, I've tried to test ride bikes. Nothing > doing at all the dealers I've been to. They all want > an endorsement on my license. Fair enough. I wouldn't > let me test ride either. > > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' bikes. > They won't check my license, right? > > Thoughts? Stifled laughter? > > -- > Sean Steele > Washington, DC > > "Anybody have a good used Suzuki Bandit?" > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 18:22:06 2003 From: "rich hall" To: wrytous@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 18:10:53 -0400 Out w/ the bikes already! I'm sure someone here has had every model you're looking at. You'll get more reviews than you want. I started on a '94 Yamaha Seca II in '99. Bought a leftover new '02 Suzuki SV650S this spring. >From: Sean Steele >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:59:20 -0700 (PDT) > >Tom, > > > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > > suggest some ideas for you. > >I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right >now. I think I want something that will be an >all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and >use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I >want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I >want some storage room. And I want to be able to do >some mods to the bike without having much in the way >of a garage. That's about it. > >I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what >they call "standard"? > > > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > > useless. > >Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of >vehicles (and big purchases in general). > > > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) > >This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few >bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and >meet my basic requirements. > >Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like >from what I know to be a reputable source? > > > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > > abound. > >Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the >best... > >-Sean > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 19:59:04 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 19:57:53 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Rob Sharp CC: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Rob Sharp wrote: > You don't get your MC endorsement when you pass the MSF course. Thats a LOAD! > He's in DC. DC doesn't have a motorcycle treining program and won't recognize completion cards from MD or VA. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 20:06:59 2003 From: "Marc Washington" To: "DC Cycles" , "Sean Steele" Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:04:25 -0400 Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:04:25 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original I started on 1988 Honda Hawk NT650 (which I still have). It's a perfect beginner through advanced bike. Can be a gorgeous streetfighter, handles like dream, comfortable and fairly inexpensive. You can pick a nice specimen up on Ebay for $1500-2000. If you want to hook it up, there's nothing you cant do with it. They have a pretty substantial cult following for good reason. >From: Sean Steele >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:59:20 -0700 (PDT) > >Tom, > > > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > > suggest some ideas for you. > >I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right >now. I think I want something that will be an >all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and >use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I >want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I >want some storage room. And I want to be able to do >some mods to the bike without having much in the way >of a garage. That's about it. > >I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what >they call "standard"? > > > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > > useless. > >Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of >vehicles (and big purchases in general). > > > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) > >This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few >bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and >meet my basic requirements. > >Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like >from what I know to be a reputable source? > > > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > > abound. > >Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the >best... > >-Sean > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 20:11:54 2003 Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 17:11:51 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Good dealers are just that, good for the sport, and > they cannot stay in > business without our support. Bad dealers cost us > members (riders) who get out of > the sport rather then go through the hassle and > expense created by bad dealers. > We need to support good dealers even if it costs us > a little more. We need to > shun bad dealers under any circumstances. Totally with you on that, but I have never had a dealer do any of those "extra mile" type things you mention, except for riding with some dealer-sponsored groups. For that, Heyser Cycle gets my vote. Seems like they are having a big, big event every weekend these days. Plus they always come up with fun routes to ride, and they are very nice road captains. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 21:00:57 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:01:29 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Tire blew out today At 02:24 PM 8/4/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >When I looked at the rear tire, it >was nearly completely bald. I was stunned. Glad you handled the situation so well. Might be a good idea to start to "pre-flight" the bike every time you ride. Look at the tires, check the brakes, check for leaks, check the lights and signals. Only takes a few seconds to do a quick check of that stuff. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 21:08:37 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:07:12 -0400 From: Sean Steele wrytous@XXXXXX I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. Here's my dilemma: I passed my MSF Basic earlier in the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written exam, and got my Learner's Permit. LP in hand, I've tried to test ride bikes. Nothing doing at all the dealers I've been to. They all want an endorsement on my license. Fair enough. I wouldn't let me test ride either. It does mean I need to take the road test to get the endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. ...snip ******Ahhhhhh, yes, caterpillar. The ancient conundrum of the Columbia-chrysalis yearning to expand and fly. In my case (yrs ago) a salesman (at Coleman's, actually) let me take a used en500 around the lot after I'd zeroed in on a smaller cruiser firstbike. The initial hangup for me was insurance -- (not mentioned above. ???) No M, no street. Colemans delivered the bike to the DCDMV lot for the test (at a reasonable cost). (More to the story but not worth it here.) If one wants it badly enough, attention to the little pieces will make it happen. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Like to fly. At ground level. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 21:48:55 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Marc Washington" , "DC Cycles" , "Sean Steele" Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:50:12 -0500 www.hawkgt.com We got a sweet mailing list with dicussions relating to politics just like this one. Also we dicuss the hawk. Depending on how nice the bike and mods, ect you can expect to pay up to 3k. Stock I would pay between 1,500 - 2,500 depending on miles and condition. I learned on one and I still have it. It's not gonna be a tourer and I don't think it's gonna replace your car anytime soon. Rob On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:04:25 -0400, Marc Washington wrote > I started on 1988 Honda Hawk NT650 (which I still have). It's a > perfect beginner through advanced bike. Can be a gorgeous > streetfighter, handles like dream, comfortable and fairly > inexpensive. You can pick a nice specimen up on Ebay for $1500- > 2000. If you want to hook it up, there's nothing you cant do with > it. They have a pretty substantial cult following for good reason. > > >From: Sean Steele > >To: DC Cycles > >Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC > >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 14:59:20 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Tom, > > > > > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > > > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > > > suggest some ideas for you. > > > >I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right > >now. I think I want something that will be an > >all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and > >use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I > >want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I > >want some storage room. And I want to be able to do > >some mods to the bike without having much in the way > >of a garage. That's about it. > > > >I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what > >they call "standard"? > > > > > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > > > useless. > > > >Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of > >vehicles (and big purchases in general). > > > > > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > > > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > > > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > > > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > > > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > > > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) > > > >This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few > >bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and > >meet my basic requirements. > > > >Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like > >from what I know to be a reputable source? > > > > > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > > > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > > > abound. > > > >Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the > >best... > > > >-Sean > > -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 5 22:49:33 2003 Date: Tue, 05 Aug 2003 22:44:53 -0400 From: Carl Parker To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Cover of August Washingtonian GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!! MAKE IT GO AWAY!! GET IT OFF ME! GET IT OFF ME!!! ;) Carlo "Fookin' stupid poodle wielding sunglass wearing...got no business on a ducati " Parker >The article is titled "What's Cool" and features several pics of bike >of various types. > >http://www.washingtonian.com/ > >RPM From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 07:56:21 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:51:48 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Sean Steele CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [151.196.120.82] at Wed, 6 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0500 Sean Steele wrote: >I want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I >want some storage room. And I want to be able to do >some mods to the bike without having much in the way >of a garage. That's about it. > >I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what >they call "standard"? > > Sean, Really take a good look at used Suzuki GS500's. Add a luggage rack and a tank bag, and if that's not enough storage you can always go with soft or hard saddlebags. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 08:06:31 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 08:01:59 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Rob Sharp CC: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [151.196.120.82] at Wed, 6 Aug 2003 07:06:20 -0500 Rob Sharp wrote: >You probaly should look for things like: doesn't weight a lot, has enough >power but not a ton, and handles very easily so you can do figure 8's on it >with ease. > > .................. and I'd add, no fairings. They're kinda expensive to replace, for when you drop the bike. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 08:07:55 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:07:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Noe Subject: Yamaha Brake Pad Shim Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have an '86 SRX 600 and am changing out the nothing-happens-at-first-application front pads (probably race pads) for standard EBC street pads. The old pads had some kind of thin metal half-shim on the backing plates. That is, the shim only contacted half of the caliper piston. >From my cage experience, I associate shims with rattle/squeal control. If that is the case here, can I dump the shims? They don't seem to fit the EBC pads well plus a shim was missing from a pad in the left caliper. Thanks in advance. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 08:12:30 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles are you a new rider? or do you have some experience? check out these bikes: suz bandit; YAMAHA FZ1; suz sv650 you really can't go wrong with these.... but if you're a newbie (unless you have a LOT of respect for the bigger machines listed above), i would think that a early 80s ujm (japanese standard bike) is the way to go for the first year or so. you WILL drop/crash the bike at least once. --- Sean Steele wrote: > Tom, > > > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > > suggest some ideas for you. > > I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right > now. I think I want something that will be an > all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and > use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I > want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I > want some storage room. And I want to be able to do > some mods to the bike without having much in the way > of a garage. That's about it. > > I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what > they call "standard"? > > > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > > useless. > > Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of > vehicles (and big purchases in general). > > > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) > > This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few > bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and > meet my basic requirements. > > Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like > from what I know to be a reputable source? > > > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > > abound. > > Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the > best... > > -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 08:32:34 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:32:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: wayne@XXXXXX, wrytous@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Ahh, a person to share my recent newbie experience with. I took the MSF Basic Rider's course in late April. Upon passing, I went out looking for a cheap, used standard style motorcycle. I was looking for a private seller, and a bike costing around $1,500. I strongly recommend you take this route, rather than buying a brand new bike. The reason is, you'll probably drop the bike at some point in the first year. I bought a 1986 Yamaha Radian 600. It's a great bike. It's fun, fairly comfortable, low seat height, decent gas mileage, and one of the sportiest 600cc engines during this time period. Of course, there are hundreds of other choices, many of them as good as the Radian I got. I did end up spending less than $1,500 on the bike, and I'm so glad I bought a used bike. Because, I dropped it about 5 weeks after buying it. I was taking a left hander a little too fast for the conditions, hit some gravel, tapped my rear brake (newbie mistake) and lost the rear end of the bike. Luckily, I was only going about 15 or 20 mph, and game out with only a little injured pride (as well as a scraped elbow and knee). I was wearing full saftey gear (full-face helmet, armoured jacket) but only jeans on the legs. If I had had a new bike, I'm sure I'd have $1000 or more in damage from that low speed wreck, as it is, I bent my clutch lever and scraped my left side exhaust pipe, but the bike is still in decent shape. I learned my lesson well, and I won't make that mistake again. So, unless you have way more confidence that I had, I would stay away from high-powered sportsbikes (or high-powered crusiers for that matter). Get a cheap used bike (preferably without a lot of plastic; mine's "naked") and ride for a year. Learn about maintenance and improve your riding skills, then make the big purchase! Just my 2 cents, -Kipp. aka Lurking >> I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. >Welcome to the list and to motorcycling :-) Here here! I second that! > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' bikes. > They won't check my license, right? I have never allowed test rides when selling bikes. I've offered to draw up a bill of sale with a buy-back in x minutes if the buyer wasn't happy after riding the bike. I think you'll find many private sellers will not allow test rides. My advice is to pick up an inexpensive, older standard. Ride it for a year and then decide which way you want to go with another bike. ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 09:28:56 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: t_gimer@XXXXXX, wrytous@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:17:28 -0400 if you're looking for a used streetfighter to tinker on and good for a starter bike, check out the Honda Hawk GT 650. They made them from 1988-1991 (red,blue, and grey). You can get a nice low mileage used one stock for around 2500, lot of people race them too, those cost a bit less. www.hawkgt.com Talk to anybody that knows about bikes and they'll say it's a great bike. There's a good e-mail discussion list. It does have some short comings if you get one completely stock though. It's manufactured a little lean (not enough gas for the airflow that it gets), could use better suspension, etc. But it's a good project bike. You can even find ones that have the nice upgrades too in the 2500-2700 $ range. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Tom Gimer To: Sean Steele , DC Cycles Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:12:22 -0700 (PDT) are you a new rider? or do you have some experience? check out these bikes: suz bandit; YAMAHA FZ1; suz sv650 you really can't go wrong with these.... but if you're a newbie (unless you have a LOT of respect for the bigger machines listed above), i would think that a early 80s ujm (japanese standard bike) is the way to go for the first year or so. you WILL drop/crash the bike at least once. --- Sean Steele wrote: > Tom, > > > first, tell us what you'd be trying to figure out > > during your test ride and then perhaps we can > > suggest some ideas for you. > > I'd say I'm trying to make a "category" choice right > now. I think I want something that will be an > all-arounder (esp. if I decide to jettison my cage and > use the bike as my primary means of transportation). I > want something at least fairly fun in the twisties. I > want some storage room. And I want to be able to do > some mods to the bike without having much in the way > of a garage. That's about it. > > I like the "streetfighter" type of bike... maybe what > they call "standard"? > > > my opinion is that a short test ride is virtually > > useless. > > Point very well taken. Same is true with a lot of > vehicles (and big purchases in general). > > > i'd focus instead on doing a bunch of research on > > potential purchases. when you've narrowed it, have > > someone knowledgeable check the bikes out from a > > mechanical standpoint (if you're buying used); read > > up on which bikes maintain their values; and also > > read up on bike reviews (mcn is my favorite source) > > This is great advice. I've narrowed it down to a few > bikes I believe do the things you've mentioned and > meet my basic requirements. > > Should I just take a dive and buy a used bike I like > from what I know to be a reputable source? > > > as for your dc test, there is likely someone on this > > list who will loan you a bike. friendly folks > > abound. > > Shucks, you motorcycle enthusiasts (bikers?) are the > best... > > -Sean __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 09:29:39 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 06:29:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: Lurking , wayne@XXXXXX, wrytous@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX That was exactly the approach I took 2 years ago when I learned to ride, but I wanted to keep cost under $1000. I ended up buying a 1977 Honda CB, which cost $750 and had about 26k miles on it. My reasoning was similar: I figured on keeping it a year, which would mean if something happened to the bike (more likely for beginners) it would be less heartache and would give me some time to figure out what bike I really wanted. Over half the folks that were in my MSF class ended up trading in their first bike w/i a year of its purchase, so I'd think hard about getting a bike that used and not too powerful; it's a good way to learn and you won't take such a financial hit when you get your second bike. And oh yeah, check your tires regularly ... jib --- Lurking wrote: > Ahh, a person to share my recent newbie experience > with. > > I took the MSF Basic Rider's course in late April. > Upon passing, I went out looking for a > cheap, used standard style motorcycle. I was > looking for a private seller, and a bike > costing around $1,500. I strongly recommend you > take this route, rather than buying a > brand new bike. The reason is, you'll probably drop > the bike at some point in the first > year. > > I bought a 1986 Yamaha Radian 600. It's a great > bike. It's fun, fairly comfortable, low > seat height, decent gas mileage, and one of the > sportiest 600cc engines during this time > period. Of course, there are hundreds of other > choices, many of them as good as the Radian > I got. I did end up spending less than $1,500 on > the bike, and I'm so glad I bought a used > bike. > > Because, I dropped it about 5 weeks after buying it. > I was taking a left hander a little > too fast for the conditions, hit some gravel, tapped > my rear brake (newbie mistake) and > lost the rear end of the bike. Luckily, I was only > going about 15 or 20 mph, and game out > with only a little injured pride (as well as a > scraped elbow and knee). I was wearing full > saftey gear (full-face helmet, armoured jacket) but > only jeans on the legs. If I had had a > new bike, I'm sure I'd have $1000 or more in damage > from that low speed wreck, as it is, I > bent my clutch lever and scraped my left side > exhaust pipe, but the bike is still in decent > shape. I learned my lesson well, and I won't make > that mistake again. > > So, unless you have way more confidence that I had, > I would stay away from high-powered > sportsbikes (or high-powered crusiers for that > matter). Get a cheap used bike (preferably > without a lot of plastic; mine's "naked") and ride > for a year. Learn about maintenance and > improve your riding skills, then make the big > purchase! > > Just my 2 cents, > -Kipp. > aka Lurking > > >> I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. > > >Welcome to the list and to motorcycling :-) > > Here here! I second that! > > > It does mean I need to take the road test to get > the > > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike > of my > > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' > bikes. > > They won't check my license, right? > > I have never allowed test rides when selling bikes. > I've offered to draw > up a bill of sale with a buy-back in x minutes if > the buyer wasn't happy > after riding the bike. I think you'll find many > private sellers will not > allow test rides. > > My advice is to pick up an inexpensive, older > standard. Ride it for a > year and then decide which way you want to go with > another bike. > > > ===== > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and > child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic > security and protect > our homeland." -Adolf Hitler > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:02:13 2003 Subject: Trip Load From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Aug 2003 10:57:59 -0400 Ok, up at http://www.schelin.org/personal/boise/inventory is the list of gear I'm packing. There are still a few holes which I'll be filling today. I expect that tomorrow, I'll break down the packs and pitch half of the stuff ;-) I did a test load last night and it all packs well. Bungie cords and nylon straps (I'm getting more tonight). I still have a small pile of stuff to be packed away. Later, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:08:56 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Lurking , wayne@XXXXXX, wrytous@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:10:14 -0500 Yep, I dropped my hawk going to fast around a turn. I spent about 200 bux getting the seat cowl fixed (crack) and the bike repainted at a local body shop. If you got lots of plastic it's sure to be at least 500+ bux if you mess some of it up. As for power, even a bike with 50 HP is a whole lots faster than just about any car out there, so even if you think "I don't want to get a slow bike", really we are just saying you don't want a 100+ HP Superbike. Like the Hawk for example is about 45HP and 40ft/lbs and it goes 0-60 in under 4 seconds stock. Plus with no fairings, the wind really helps remind you of how fast your going. Regards, Rob On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 05:32:27 -0700 (PDT), Lurking wrote > Ahh, a person to share my recent newbie experience with. > > I took the MSF Basic Rider's course in late April. Upon passing, I > went out looking for a cheap, used standard style motorcycle. I was > looking for a private seller, and a bike costing around $1,500. I > strongly recommend you take this route, rather than buying a brand > new bike. The reason is, you'll probably drop the bike at some > point in the first year. > > I bought a 1986 Yamaha Radian 600. It's a great bike. It's fun, > fairly comfortable, low seat height, decent gas mileage, and one of > the sportiest 600cc engines during this time period. Of course, > there are hundreds of other choices, many of them as good as the Radian > I got. I did end up spending less than $1,500 on the bike, and I'm > so glad I bought a used bike. > > Because, I dropped it about 5 weeks after buying it. I was taking a > left hander a little too fast for the conditions, hit some gravel, > tapped my rear brake (newbie mistake) and lost the rear end of the > bike. Luckily, I was only going about 15 or 20 mph, and game out > with only a little injured pride (as well as a scraped elbow and > knee). I was wearing full saftey gear (full-face helmet, armoured > jacket) but only jeans on the legs. If I had had a new bike, I'm > sure I'd have $1000 or more in damage from that low speed wreck, as > it is, I bent my clutch lever and scraped my left side exhaust pipe, > but the bike is still in decent shape. I learned my lesson well, > and I won't make that mistake again. > > So, unless you have way more confidence that I had, I would stay > away from high-powered sportsbikes (or high-powered crusiers for > that matter). Get a cheap used bike (preferably without a lot of > plastic; mine's "naked") and ride for a year. Learn about > maintenance and improve your riding skills, then make the big purchase! > > Just my 2 cents, > -Kipp. > aka Lurking > > >> I'm enjoying the listserv and I'm new to riding. > > >Welcome to the list and to motorcycling :-) > > Here here! I second that! > > > It does mean I need to take the road test to get the > > endorsement. With a bike. But I won't buy a bike of my > > own 'til I test ride a bunch of bikes first. > > > > I s'pose I could go test ride private sellers' bikes. > > They won't check my license, right? > > I have never allowed test rides when selling bikes. I've offered to > draw up a bill of sale with a buy-back in x minutes if the buyer > wasn't happy after riding the bike. I think you'll find many > private sellers will not allow test rides. > > My advice is to pick up an inexpensive, older standard. Ride it for > a year and then decide which way you want to go with another bike. > > ===== > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect > our homeland." -Adolf Hitler > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:38:56 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:38:48 -0400 I was wondering what the Hawk GT enthusiasts thought of the SV650, is it better than the Hawk GT, in your opinions? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:45:01 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:46:15 -0400 What's your definition of better? SV650 - more power, speed. NT650 - more style, fun. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: rich hall [SMTP:richallmc@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:39 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > I was wondering what the Hawk GT enthusiasts thought of the SV650, is it > better than the Hawk GT, in your opinions? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:51:17 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:52:36 -0500 I have never riden one, but I am sure it's a better bike. It has like 12 years of technology to help it out. I know lots of hawkers consider moving on to one of these bikes. Rob On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:38:48 -0400, rich hall wrote > I was wondering what the Hawk GT enthusiasts thought of the SV650, > is it better than the Hawk GT, in your opinions? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 11:57:26 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Michael Lynch , "'rich hall'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:58:38 -0500 Plus: SV650 = 3k and up for a used one. NT650 = 3k and down for a used one. Personally I like the SSSA, frame and the lines of the Hawk in general. I don't like the tube frames of the SV650's but I like the newer '03 frames, they are a little more boxy. I also like the tail/seat on the hawk better. Mostly opinion stuff I guess and a little bit of money. Rob On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 11:46:15 -0400 , Michael Lynch wrote > What's your definition of better? > > SV650 - more power, speed. > > NT650 - more style, fun. > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rich hall [SMTP:richallmc@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:39 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > > > I was wondering what the Hawk GT enthusiasts thought of the SV650, is it > > better than the Hawk GT, in your opinions? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 12:28:41 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: richallmc@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 12:28:32 -0400 I think Rob Sharp is the only other HAWKer on the DC list. I actually rode my friends' 650 SVS (w/ the fairing) last week when we were going up to Southsides in old town. First, keep in mind that the Hawk is 12 -15 years old. For some odd reason, it never really sold that well when it first came out. Now it has a very large following and has a cult status now (comparable to the good movies of a decade or two ago like Army of Darkness, Blue's Brothers, Top Gun, etc). You like those old movies in a way that's different than the way you like the newer movies that are coming out with all the CGI and wirework. Honda continues to make every part for every bike that they've ever made, it's just a little more expensive than newer stocked parts. Which helps the Hawk a lot. There is a great used market on Hawk stuff on ebay and elsewhere. Back to the questions though....I like my hawk better. Maybe it was just the fact that I hadn't ridden his SV very much, but it felt awkward to me. The Gas tank is a lot wider forcing my legs out a lot more. The SV's base horsepower is around 70 i think where the hawk is 40 bph (my modded hawk is @ about 50 bph...stage 3 jet, muzzy pipe and pod filters). But I feel that I have a lot more mid range torque than the SV. The SV has a bit worse turning radius. I was pulling a U turn and my hand was hitting the gas tank which was uncomfortable/scary with his clip-on bars. With the stock exhaust on the Hawk, you get a very nice view of the single sided swingarm, but no sound (and power). My Muzzy gives a very nice, if loud throaty note to the SV's kinda tinny exhaust note. The hawk is also easier to work with because it is that much older. Don't have to worry about fuel injection, etc. He had a sargent seat on it which i didn't think was very comfortable...at least compared to my Hawks' corbin. All in all, they are both good bikes with the right modifications...I think you just need less mods with the SV (although each are more exspensive). I love my hawk. I got it as my first bike so I wouldn't trash a newer more exspensive more powerful one. The Hawk is also benefical in helping you learn about the mechanics of a bike too...if you get a stock Hawk, you're going to want/need to do some mods, and the list support group and archives are excellent in helping you work through it yourself. Most of the people on the Hawk list look askance at SV's, partly because we think we do have a better bike (esp for being that much older and 'cooler'), and also I think with a bit of envy. you can get a used 01 SV for less than $4K and have a really good bike (just not compared to a hawk though ;). It does say something that people area still paying just as much money for a used '88-'91 hawk now as when it came out brand new off the showroom back in the day. jeff www.hawkgt.com ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:38:48 -0400 I was wondering what the Hawk GT enthusiasts thought of the SV650, is it better than the Hawk GT, in your opinions? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 12:44:48 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:44:37 EDT Subject: Re:Good for her! To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/5/2003 10:16:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > I told her that it was probably a good thing she failed and that we'll > practice it before taking her in for the MC test at DMV. I tell students that what we have taught them is how to practice, that _everyone_Including_the_instructors_ needs constant practice. That makes her "just" another one of us. As for going too wide in the corners. She needs to trust the "press left go left...." more. A little more press, a little more lean, a little more turn, Bingo! She is through the turn. > She's happy about taking the class though. GREAT! Good for her! John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 12:48:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:48:48 EDT Subject: Re: Q1: dealerships & Q2: cruiser rec's To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/5/2003 10:29:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > John, > One bike can't do it all. Yea, true, tell it to my wallet. If I could I would give Jay Leno a run for his money, I want a bike for everything from trials to tour, but I have enough trouble keeping one bike on the road. Like his turbojet bike though.... John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 13:03:16 2003 Subject: Re: Re:Good for her! From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Aug 2003 12:59:01 -0400 On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 12:44, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/5/2003 10:16:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > I told her that it was probably a good thing she failed and that we'll > > practice it before taking her in for the MC test at DMV. > > I tell students that what we have taught them is how to practice, that > _everyone_Including_the_instructors_ needs constant practice. That makes her "just" > another one of us. > > As for going too wide in the corners. > She needs to trust the "press left go left...." more. A little more press, a > little more lean, a little more turn, Bingo! She is through the turn. > Agreed. She's more confident about it which adds to her being happy to take the class. One of her conditions of getting a bike was we had to truck/trailer them out of the area and _then_ we could go for a ride. Yesterday she went back on that one :-) I find her acceptance interesting to watch. Two years ago she was very positive about riding until reading that book on worst case. Then she didn't want me to ride. But I rode anyway. Then not to ride in the cold. But I rode anyway. Then not to ride in the rain. " " Then not to ride in a downpour. " " Now: Pickup for sale, barely used. $4,700. :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 13:05:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:04:59 EDT Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/5/2003 5:16:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wrytous@XXXXXX writes: > I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. Learners permit? I do not know DC cycle law, but in most states if you complete the MSF BRC and the written test you get your _endorsement_ not just a learners permit. I mean if you go in and take _just_ the written without the BRC you get a learners permit. Is this another way DC is fubar? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 13:10:28 2003 From: "Marc Washington" To: , , "Jeff Wisecarver" Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:10:12 -0400 Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:10:12 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original No, I've got an 88 yellow NT650 and I would rather take it canyon carving than my 99 Superhawk any day! Of course I've got some mods on the NT650 that help a little: VFR rear wheel, F2 front end, FOX shocks etc... With all these mods I can confidently go full tilt on it without ever worrying that I will go faster than the bike can handle. It's an absolute blast! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > I think Rob Sharp is the only other HAWKer on the DC list. I actually > rode From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 13:14:37 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Jeff Wisecarver Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:16:05 -0400 Yeah, there's probably 5 or so Hawkers on the dc-cycles list. I just got the F3 fork internals and Penske fully adjustable shock for mine. Can't wait to get it on there. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Washington [SMTP:marcwashington@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:10 PM > To: richallmc@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Jeff Wisecarver > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > No, I've got an 88 yellow NT650 and I would rather take it canyon carving > than my 99 Superhawk any day! Of course I've got some mods on the NT650 > that help a little: VFR rear wheel, F2 front end, FOX shocks etc... With > all these mods I can confidently go full tilt on it without ever worrying > that I will go faster than the bike can handle. It's an absolute blast! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Wisecarver" > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > > > I think Rob Sharp is the only other HAWKer on the DC list. I actually > > rode From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 13:25:04 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:24:56 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Yep. DC doesn't offer any MSF courses and don't accept the certificate from VA or MD so, written test and then permit. Scooter (still licensed in PA ;-)) In a message dated 8/6/2003 1:04:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PenguinBiker writes: > > > In a message dated 8/5/2003 5:16:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > wrytous@XXXXXX writes: > > > I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. > > Learners permit? > I do not know DC cycle law, but in most states if you complete the MSF BRC > and the written test you get your _endorsement_ not just a learners permit. I > mean if you go in and take _just_ the written without the > BRC you get a learners > permit. Is this another way DC is fubar? > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 14:06:45 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: MLynch@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:06:36 -0400 Yeah I have the racetech gold valves and springs for the front in my garage waiting to be put in. Fox rear is next probly. Oooo..penske...ahhhh :) Hey Mike and Marc, are you guys on the hawk email list? I didn't recognise your names. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Jeff Wisecarver Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:16:05 -0400 Yeah, there's probably 5 or so Hawkers on the dc-cycles list. I just got the F3 fork internals and Penske fully adjustable shock for mine. Can't wait to get it on there. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Washington [SMTP:marcwashington@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:10 PM > To: richallmc@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Jeff Wisecarver > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > No, I've got an 88 yellow NT650 and I would rather take it canyon carving > than my 99 Superhawk any day! Of course I've got some mods on the NT650 > that help a little: VFR rear wheel, F2 front end, FOX shocks etc... With > all these mods I can confidently go full tilt on it without ever worrying > that I will go faster than the bike can handle. It's an absolute blast! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Wisecarver" > To: ; > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:28 PM > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > > > I think Rob Sharp is the only other HAWKer on the DC list. I actually > > rode _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 14:14:45 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Jeff Wisecarver" , MLynch@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:15:57 -0500 Hawk wrenching session ? I wish I had something to do to mine. I need to get a Fox Shock and a Racetech Emulators. I just replaced the brake lines with some SS ones. You can easily spend the cost of the bike on upgrades. I think someone makes a $2500 billet crank for the hawk motor and thats not even inlcuding all the other bits you need to replace to just make good use of it. Rob On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 14:06:36 -0400, Jeff Wisecarver wrote > Yeah I have the racetech gold valves and springs for the front in my > garage waiting to be put in. Fox rear is next probly. > Oooo..penske...ahhhh :) > > Hey Mike and Marc, are you guys on the hawk email list? I didn't > recognise your names. > > ----------- > Jeffrey C. Wisecarver > jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX > Home (703)780-5421 > Cell (703)786-4723 > '89 RED > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Michael Lynch > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Jeff Wisecarver > Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:16:05 -0400 > > Yeah, there's probably 5 or so Hawkers on the dc-cycles list. I > just got the F3 fork internals and Penske fully adjustable shock for > mine. Can't wait to get it on there. > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Marc Washington [SMTP:marcwashington@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:10 PM > > To: richallmc@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Jeff > Wisecarver > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > > No, I've got an 88 yellow NT650 and I would rather take it > canyon carving > than my 99 Superhawk any day! Of course I've got > some mods on the NT650 > that help a little: VFR rear wheel, F2 > front end, FOX shocks etc... With > all these mods I can > confidently go full tilt on it without ever worrying > that I will > go faster than the bike can handle. It's an absolute blast! > > > -- > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Wisecarver" > > To: ; > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:28 PM > > Subject: Re: Hawk GT vs SV (Was: Newbie Catch-22 in DC) > > > > > > > I think Rob Sharp is the only other HAWKer on the DC list. I actually > > > rode > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 14:23:17 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:22:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Cc: DC Cycles From: Randy Moran There's one of these (red NT650 Hawk) for sale on Bull Run Mountain (near Aldie, VA) if anyone is looking. I'll ride up and get the phone number if an interested party emails me. On Wednesday, August 6, 2003, at 09:17 AM, Jeff Wisecarver wrote: > if you're looking for a used streetfighter to tinker on and good for a > starter bike, check out the Honda Hawk GT 650. They made them from > 1988-1991 (red,blue, and grey). You can get a nice low mileage used > one stock for around 2500, lot of people race them too, those cost a > bit less. www.hawkgt.com > Talk to anybody that knows about bikes and they'll say it's a great > bike. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 15:55:30 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 12:55:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Buy Arai? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX It's come time to buy a new helmet, and I'd like to replace my Arai Signet/GT with the same (or maybe the same model with the replaceable liner). Problem is, since I last bought a helmet Arai has gone all anti-competitive and restricted sales to "in person" only -- no more web-sales/telephone orders. You must go to a store to buy one. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I can get one for less than MSRP? Online is okay if some shop is willing to do it, but failing that, what's the best local option? (I seriuosly considered buying a Shoei 'cause of Microso . . ., er, Arai's recalcitrance.) Thanks. (Please ping me off list as well as cc:dc-cycles, as I'm digested.) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:29:17 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:29:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Re: Buy Arai? To: matthew patton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX But I have an Arai (properly fitted), and I know what size I wear (just an L, though my friends don't believe it). It's just an excuse for higher price$. I tried to get a Suomy, without success (unfortunate tale -- Suomy's U.S. distributer (the middleman) appears to play games with the end-sellers (the little guys)). Hence the hunt for an Arai. --- matthew patton wrote: > well, it was all done in the name of "customer > service" actually. They > did a study and found out that 95+% of people wear a > lid 2 sizes too > big. Therefore the helmets people were wearing were > no good. So, with a > properly trained expert on the sales floor, such > mistakes could be > prevented. Yeah but most salesdroids I've seen > couldn't find a helmet > anyway let alone refuse to sell one to a customer > because it was the > wrong size. The signet line is AFAIK the same shape > as Shoei and most > every body else. Get a Suomy if you want to spend > the dough would be my > suggestion. But then again I'm an HJC/Shoei kind of > guy anyway... > > ===== > * Love, not time, heals all wounds. > > * No one is perfect until you fall in love with > them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, > love makes them perfect again. > > * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but > all the happiness and growth occurs while you're > climbing it > > * You can not forgive unless you first love. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:33:42 2003 Subject: How about OGK? Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:33:33 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: Are there any local vendors that stock OGK helmets? -Witold From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:39:58 2003 From: Jason Picton To: "'Aaron'" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: Buy Arai? Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:38:42 -0400 Actually Starcycle is selling Arai's (closeout from last year) at good prices online.... . try http://www.starcycle.com/street/arai.html - They are also a dealer and selling there stuff online and have good deals on closeouts as well ... A friend of mine just got a fujiwara Quantum F for 324 bucks... good deal if you ask me... FYI I am now a big believer in ARAI... As I just totaled a bike wearing one.. - you can see picts of how well the ARAI held up at http://hometown.aol.com/shadowdncr/index.html - look at the bottom of the page Jason -----Original Message----- From: Aaron [mailto:jarvis22201@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:55 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Buy Arai? It's come time to buy a new helmet, and I'd like to replace my Arai Signet/GT with the same (or maybe the same model with the replaceable liner). Problem is, since I last bought a helmet Arai has gone all anti-competitive and restricted sales to "in person" only -- no more web-sales/telephone orders. You must go to a store to buy one. Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I can get one for less than MSRP? Online is okay if some shop is willing to do it, but failing that, what's the best local option? (I seriuosly considered buying a Shoei 'cause of Microso . . ., er, Arai's recalcitrance.) Thanks. (Please ping me off list as well as cc:dc-cycles, as I'm digested.) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:44:22 2003 Subject: Re: Buy Arai? From: Brian Roach To: Aaron Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Aug 2003 16:44:12 -0400 Aaron, Due to Arai's anti-competative price-fixing scheme, good luck in finding someplace that will ship you one without seeing you in person. Anyone who is a direct dealer (and getting reasonable pricing) is forbidden from doing so by Arai. I switched to AGV helmets this year for that reason, even though we can still get Arai helmets (at new inflated rates) from one of our distributors. I have raced in Arai Signet helmets for years. That being said, if you call SpeedWerks (302) 672-7223 and talk to Steve, he can let you know what the best price he can get you on an Arai is. At the very least it should be a few duckets off list. Also ... if you wear an arai signet and it fits, do NOT get a shoei (any model). You have an oval head, and shoei is for round ones - it will rub the skin off your forehead after about 30 mins. Your best bet is an AGV for fit, and possibly HJC. - Roach On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 15:55, Aaron wrote: > It's come time to buy a new helmet, and I'd like to > replace my Arai Signet/GT with the same (or maybe the > same model with the replaceable liner). > > Problem is, since I last bought a helmet Arai has gone > all anti-competitive and restricted sales to "in > person" only -- no more web-sales/telephone orders. > You must go to a store to buy one. > > Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I can get > one for less than MSRP? Online is okay if some shop > is willing to do it, but failing that, what's the best > local option? > > (I seriuosly considered buying a Shoei 'cause of > Microso . . ., er, Arai's recalcitrance.) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:48:55 2003 Subject: Re: Buy Arai? From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 06 Aug 2003 16:48:47 -0400 --- matthew patton wrote: > The signet line is AFAIK the same shape > as Shoei and most > every body else. The Arai Signet model is the most UNLIKE a shoei. The Quantum is what Arai calls "Oval", the Signet is a "Long Oval". Shoei is a round shell. If a Signet actually fits your head, a shoei will cause you quite a bit of pain after about 30 mins as it digs into your forehead. - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 16:53:50 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:54:20 -0400 To: Brian Roach , Aaron From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 04:44 PM 8/6/03 -0400, Brian Roach wrote: >Also ... if you wear an arai signet and it fits, do NOT get a shoei (any >model). You have an oval head, and shoei is for round ones - it will rub >the skin off your forehead after about 30 mins. If it doesn't give you a headache first... I tried Shoei once...several of them. None fit, though the size was right. I got a Bell...fit *very* well, and had a SNELL approval too. -- Mike "Haven't seen many Bells in the stores lately though" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 17:08:45 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:08:35 -0400 From: rust To: Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Reply-To: rust@XXXXXX FWIW, My head fits Shoei RF-200 well but not the X-8. It fits the Arai Signet and the Quantum, but the Quantum fits better. My head is more 'oval' than 'long oval'. -Eric Brian Roach wrote: > --- matthew patton wrote: > > The signet line is AFAIK the same shape > > as Shoei and most > > every body else. > > The Arai Signet model is the most UNLIKE a shoei. > > The Quantum is what Arai calls "Oval", the Signet is a "Long Oval". > Shoei is a round shell. > > If a Signet actually fits your head, a shoei will cause you quite a bit > of pain after about 30 mins as it digs into your forehead. > > - Roach > > > _________________________________________________________ This mail sent using V-webmail - http://www.v-webmail.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 17:10:58 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 17:10:49 -0400 From: rust To: Subject: Re: Newbie Catch-22 in DC Reply-To: rust@XXXXXX But if you get your license in MD or VA (or PA), then transfer it to DC , you don't have to take the test again. Of course you need an address in MD or VA you can use. -Eric ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Yep. DC doesn't offer any MSF courses and don't accept the certificate from VA > or MD so, written test and then permit. > > Scooter (still licensed in PA ;-)) > > In a message dated 8/6/2003 1:04:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PenguinBiker > writes: > > > > > > > In a message dated 8/5/2003 5:16:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > wrytous@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > I passed my MSF Basic earlier in > > > the summer, went to the DC DMV, passed my written > > > exam, and got my Learner's Permit. > > > > Learners permit? > > I do not know DC cycle law, but in most states if you complete the MSF BRC > > and the written test you get your _endorsement_ not just a learners permit. I > > > mean if you go in and take _just_ the written without the > > BRC you get a learners > > permit. Is this another way DC is fubar? > > > > > > John. > > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > > _________________________________________________________ This mail sent using V-webmail - http://www.v-webmail.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 17:24:44 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Re: Buy Arai? To: Brian Roach , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Called Steve at Speedwerks and had no problem whatsoever. He even had it in stock. If anyone's looking for a new helmet (or new anything, for that matter), I'd recommend giving him a call. Aaron --- Brian Roach wrote: > Aaron, > > Due to Arai's anti-competative price-fixing scheme, > good luck in finding > someplace that will ship you one without seeing you > in person. Anyone > who is a direct dealer (and getting reasonable > pricing) is forbidden > from doing so by Arai. > > I switched to AGV helmets this year for that reason, > even though we can > still get Arai helmets (at new inflated rates) from > one of our > distributors. I have raced in Arai Signet helmets > for years. > > That being said, if you call SpeedWerks (302) > 672-7223 and talk to > Steve, he can let you know what the best price he > can get you on an Arai > is. At the very least it should be a few duckets off > list. > > Also ... if you wear an arai signet and it fits, do > NOT get a shoei (any > model). You have an oval head, and shoei is for > round ones - it will rub > the skin off your forehead after about 30 mins. Your > best bet is an AGV > for fit, and possibly HJC. > > - Roach __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 17:25:28 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Ebay? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Has anyone had success buying new helmets from ebay? ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 17:47:19 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Ebay? Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:35:50 -0400 Haven't bought, but I'm about to list an old one of mine.....well , former passenger helmet, that is. Shoei RF-200, Large, Gloss Black, with Clear and Blue Mirrored shield, bag and box too....if anyone is interested, make me an offer. Ping me off list. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Mark Kitchell To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Ebay? Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Has anyone had success buying new helmets from ebay? ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 23:20:46 2003 Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:20:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Buy Arai? To: Mike Bartman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Mike Bartman wrote: > I got a Bell...fit *very* well, and had a SNELL approval > too. > > -- Mike "Haven't seen many Bells in the stores lately > though" Bartman -- I've worn Bell auto racing helmets for about 35 years, and the fit has always been great for me, too. I recently read somewhere that Bell USA has just reacquired the rights to the Bell name for moto helmets, and new, high quality Bell moto gear is coming soon. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 6 23:32:50 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 23:33:30 -0400 To: Larry Larson From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 08:20 PM 8/6/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> -- Mike "Haven't seen many Bells in the stores lately >> though" Bartman -- > >I've worn Bell auto racing helmets for about 35 years, and >the fit has always been great for me, too. I recently read >somewhere that Bell USA has just reacquired the rights to >the Bell name for moto helmets, and new, high quality Bell >moto gear is coming soon. I'll look for it then. Nice helmet for its time (mid 80s). I wonder what they'll have out these days? -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 00:23:58 2003 From: "stephen" To: "Rob Sharp" , "Jeff Wisecarver" , , Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 00:25:52 -0400 My '89 Hawk mods: CB-1 Handlebars F3 Forks F2 front Rim & Rotors 900RR calipers & reservoir Custom exhaust 520 chain 42 tooth rear sprocket (for low highway rpms, and terrible 1/4 miles .. well .. not THAT bad) 700cc Wiseco pistons Balanced crank (billet crank not required if you find someone who knows how to do this). Polished intakes 153 cams Fox Shock Remote reservoir for crankcase breather lest the motor blow oil into the airbox and foul the air filter. SS brake lines Probably some other stuff I've forgotten about '83 XL600R mods: 617cc Wiseco Pistons (compression up from 8.6:1 to 11:1) Jagg Oil Cooler. Aftermarket seat cover Xenon headlight Gas tank modification for significantly decreased fuel mileage and certifiably "Rat-Bike" look .. damned trees. And I REALLY want to try out one of the new SV650's. For the city, the XL is the $h!t. The Hawk HATES the pot-holes and uniformly shoddy road-work. On highway trips, canyon carving, and track-days, the Hawk rules my world. Haven't found another bike to do it all so well. In another city (one with construction workers who know how to actually use a paving machine rather than the DC hacks with their grade three educations, and their inability to read .. err .. ) the Hawk would be all I'd need. I think I have over $1000 in mods to it and hundreds of bench hours. I think I'd do it again. Still hate the lousy miniscule gas tank .. freaking hundred miles before having to fill up again. Grrrr... I think the SV makes as much power as a hot Hawk. In a couple of years time, I'll probably buy a 2004, and do the suspension properly. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 00:52:17 2003 Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 23:52:11 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV Stephen wrote: >I think the SV makes as much power as a hot Hawk. In a couple of years time, >I'll probably buy a 2004, and do the suspension properly. Eh.....A *really* hot Hawk. Stock Hawks make something like 45-47 hp....SV's make 68-70. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 03:23:12 2003 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 00:22:49 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: re: DC Motorcycle Program To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I have friends who have completed the Maryland Motorcycle Instructor Course, and are working to get a program going in DC. Maryland officials have extended a willingness to help DC get on the program, and as usual, nobody in Our Nation's Capital is picking up the ball. DC officials can't even finalize a contract with Animal Control (another program a major metropolis can't do without.) I think they need a bit more convincing...write to mayor bowtie...I mean Williams...and tell him how you feel. d __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 03:26:17 2003 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 00:26:14 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: re: nighthawk & ebay To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I myself (once I learn to ride) have my sights set on a baby Magna... <---dreaming, musing, vroom vroom vroom __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 07:56:42 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Aaron , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 7:56:35 -0400 > From: Aaron > > It's come time to buy a new helmet, and I'd like to > replace my Arai Signet/GT with the same (or maybe the > same model with the replaceable liner). > > Problem is, since I last bought a helmet Arai has gone > all anti-competitive and restricted sales to "in > person" only -- no more web-sales/telephone orders. > You must go to a store to buy one. > > Does anyone have a suggestion as to where I can get > one for less than MSRP? Online is okay if some shop > is willing to do it, but failing that, what's the best > local option? California Sport Touring (www.casporttouring.com) claims to sell Arai's at discount, but doesn't publish prices on their web page. And although I've generally had good luck with the company, the owner is real bad about answering email, so you'll have to call them at 888-799-5445 or 925-229-5000. HTH, Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 08:08:53 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: eternity23@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 08:08:44 -0400 yeah you can get the hawk up to about 80 bhp with some work. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 23:52:11 -0500 Stephen wrote: >I think the SV makes as much power as a hot Hawk. In a couple of years >time, >I'll probably buy a 2004, and do the suspension properly. Eh.....A *really* hot Hawk. Stock Hawks make something like 45-47 hp....SV's make 68-70. -Sean Jordan _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 08:21:01 2003 Subject: Re: Buy Arai? From: Carl Schelin To: Brian Roach Cc: Aaron , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 07 Aug 2003 08:16:46 -0400 On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 16:44, Brian Roach wrote: > Also ... if you wear an arai signet and it fits, do NOT get a shoei (any > model). You have an oval head, and shoei is for round ones - it will rub > the skin off your forehead after about 30 mins. Your best bet is an AGV > for fit, and possibly HJC. > So _that's_ why. So much for getting a helmet at a dealer. I have a Shoei and my forehead at the hairline has a large circular red mark with a white line down the middle after riding for more than an hour. > - Roach Time for a different dealer. Maybe East Coast :-) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 08:23:21 2003 Subject: Re: Buy Arai? Ebay? From: Carl Schelin To: Mark Kitchell Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 07 Aug 2003 08:19:08 -0400 On Wed, 2003-08-06 at 17:25, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Has anyone had success buying new helmets from ebay? > My wife bought both of hers from e-bay. The first one was a flip-up and a touch tight. She shaved down the liner at the hot spots and it seems to be ok. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 08:25:37 2003 Subject: OT (was: re: nighthawk & ebay) From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 07 Aug 2003 08:21:23 -0400 DC, What's a Permanent Fat Al Error? ;-) (Note: I got it after a moment, just running with my first read.) Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 08:59:21 2003 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 05:59:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: RE: Hawk GT vs SV To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX And you can get an SV up to almost 100hp with "some work." Chris Weaver --- Jeff Wisecarver wrote: > yeah you can get the hawk up to about 80 bhp with > some work. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 09:49:23 2003 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 06:49:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Arai Signet GTR To: DC Cycles A good helmet I found was the Arai Signet GTR. Does anyone have the GTR and is it different than the GT? How is $350 (including shipping) for a solid great model? Thanks Mark ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 09:53:36 2003 Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 09:53:28 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Drinking and riding results in..... http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/2542.htm Straight out of a bad movie. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 10:04:03 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Drinking and riding results in..... Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 10:03:54 -0400 Eesh, how awful. But you're right, that should have been in BikerBoyz. From: Troutman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Drinking and riding results in..... Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 09:53:28 -0400 http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/2542.htm Straight out of a bad movie. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 12:03:42 2003 Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:01:39 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: OT (was: re: nighthawk & ebay) At 08:21 AM 8/7/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > What's a Permanent Fat Al Error? ;-) It's when an enormous childhood friend of Bill Cosby sits on you... -- Mike "hey, hey, hey!!" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 12:03:42 2003 Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2003 12:04:24 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Drinking and riding results in..... At 09:53 AM 8/7/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/2542.htm > >Straight out of a bad movie. What do you want to bet the city gets sued for "maintaining a hazard" or something? I'd also guess that even without that, someone will suggest they cut the impalement spikes off of everything the city owns and replace them with feather pillows...just in case. -- Mike "not that that would be a bad thing, necessarily" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 7 19:24:15 2003 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2003 16:24:08 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: re: DC Motorcycle Program To: dc , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- dc wrote: > I think they need a bit more convincing...write to > mayor bowtie...I mean Williams...and tell him how > you > feel. In general, the Mayor is slow to respond and if you do get a response, it's from someone else in the Exec office of the Mayor. I've had better response going to my councilmember; for me and the rest of 4D it's Adrian Fenty at afenty@XXXXXX. Attention does not always guarantee results--- I've been trying for close to 3 years to get my street turned into a one-way street so the traffic exiting Rock Creek Park will stop smashing our parked cars--- but there's generally more progress going through the councilmembers than directly to the Mayor. Another resource is your ANC Rep but that is very hit or miss, depending on who your rep is. http://www.dccouncil.washington.dc.us/ has all the councilmember contact info. FWIW I think Fenty is doing a really good job, but I also think he is overwhelmed with so many other issues and projects that sometimes it seems like other councilmembers can sometimes get faster results. Jim Graham (Ward 3) in particular, so if there are any folks from Ward 3 on the list, send an email to his office about the MSF issue (and any others). Better yet would be for us city residents to organize somehow, to call/write/email our respective councilmembers en masse whenever motorcycle-related issues come up, or whenever they need to be brought up. I know Paul Wilson was pretty much the most aggressive lister, in terms of city council contact, when the recent issue of MSF came up. Ward 1? I think so... I would be willing to start something (email list, petition, who knows?) here in Ward 4, if there are other Ward 4 folks interested in participating. Any takers? Anyone want to be in charge of email campaigns in the other wards? cheers, Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 06:31:05 2003 Subject: Packed and Ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Aug 2003 06:26:50 -0400 Well, I have my gear here at my desk. The ride in was uneventful. I packed so that the gear didn't exceed my profile on the bike hoping to reduce drag a bit. The ride felt easier as if the bike's more stable. It looks like one of those bicycles that have 10 people on it or a pack mule the miner 49er's had when prospecting. Strapping the gear on the bike is enough to give me a heart attack though. I'm drenched with sweat. While I'm here I'll repack three bags into one. Back to work. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 07:36:58 2003 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 07:35:42 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Packed and Ready Carl Schelin wrote: > Well, I have my gear here at my desk. The ride in was uneventful. I > packed so that the gear didn't exceed my profile on the bike hoping to > reduce drag a bit. The ride felt easier as if the bike's more stable. It > looks like one of those bicycles that have 10 people on it or a pack > mule the miner 49er's had when prospecting. > > Strapping the gear on the bike is enough to give me a heart attack > though. I'm drenched with sweat. > > While I'm here I'll repack three bags into one. > > Back to work. > > Carl Good plan. Traveling on my old Suzuki I had a tank bag, tail trunk, and wad of camping stuff strapped on the pillion seat, which fit my frontal profile. 58-60 MPG on the highway, loaded or unloaded. The frame mounted Quicksilver fairing helped clean up the airflow. My Hawg has saddlebags and a dirty front end, aero-wise and bug-wise. Mileage goes to hell inna handbasket as the speed goes up. Soon as I get of my butt and mount the frame mount Road Glide fairing that may change. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 07:58:22 2003 Subject: Re: Packed and Ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Aug 2003 07:54:06 -0400 On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 07:35, William J. Huson wrote: > Good plan. Traveling on my old Suzuki I had a tank bag, tail trunk, and wad > of camping stuff strapped on the pillion seat, which fit my frontal > profile. 58-60 MPG on the highway, loaded or unloaded. The frame mounted > Quicksilver fairing helped clean up the airflow. > Tank bag, Tourmaster bag, three plastic bags with; leathers, tent/rain gear, sleeping bag/pad. The tourmaster is riding pillion, two of the bags are riding side. The top of the tourmaster (small hard-sided duffle) is behind the pillion seat and bungee netted down. The bike cover bag is strapped above it. Now that I've reduced from four to three bags, I'll either put the sleeping bag on the rear fender with the duffle above it. > My Hawg has saddlebags and a dirty front end, aero-wise and bug-wise. > Mileage goes to hell inna handbasket as the speed goes up. Soon as I get of > my butt and mount the frame mount Road Glide fairing that may change. > No windshield and no saddlebags. I might want to get saddlebags though. I'm sparse on room for stuff picked up on the way out (step-granddaughter's birthday). > Bill Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 08:35:01 2003 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:33:53 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Packed and Ready Carl Schelin wrote: > No windshield and no saddlebags. I might want to get saddlebags though. > I'm sparse on room for stuff picked up on the way out > (step-granddaughter's birthday). > > Carl Well, you could do what I did a few times. Near the end of the adventure I packed everything I wasn't actually using and mailed it home. Or you could mail the goodies for the kiddie home. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 08:40:25 2003 Subject: RE: Packed and Ready Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 08:40:14 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "William J. Huson" , "Carl Schelin" Cc: I'll second that suggestion, as my favorite trips were the ones with the least luggage! Consider even sending along tent/sleeping bag if you are on your way back, and splurge instead on a few motel nights. Robert Verde -----Original Message----- From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 8:34 AM To: Carl Schelin Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Packed and Ready Carl Schelin wrote: > No windshield and no saddlebags. I might want to get saddlebags though. > I'm sparse on room for stuff picked up on the way out > (step-granddaughter's birthday). > > Carl Well, you could do what I did a few times. Near the end of the adventure I packed everything I wasn't actually using and mailed it home. Or you could mail the goodies for the kiddie home. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 09:14:21 2003 Subject: Re: Packed and Ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Aug 2003 09:09:58 -0400 On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 08:33, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > No windshield and no saddlebags. I might want to get saddlebags though. > > I'm sparse on room for stuff picked up on the way out > > (step-granddaughter's birthday). > > > > Carl > > Well, you could do what I did a few times. Near the end of the adventure I packed > everything I wasn't actually using and mailed it home. Or you could mail the > goodies for the kiddie home. > The kiddie is in Idaho, the half-way point. I'll probably review my gear when I get there and have Rita bring back the extras. > Bill > > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 09:14:33 2003 Subject: RE: Packed and Ready From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 08 Aug 2003 09:10:10 -0400 On Fri, 2003-08-08 at 08:40, Verde, Robert wrote: > I'll second that suggestion, as my favorite trips were the ones with the least luggage! > This is my third long trip. The first two were fairly light; change of clothes and some personal stuff. This is a _long_ trip and I'm likely over-prepared. In Boise I'll review and send back what's unnecessary. > Consider even sending along tent/sleeping bag if you are on your way back, and splurge instead on a few motel nights. > But for me, splurging is camping. Since it's going to be a long fast ride back I'm considering sending the tent/sleeping bag back. But I'll miss out on camping. > Robert Verde > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 09:23:38 2003 Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 09:22:31 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Paging Louis Kaplan... Could you email me the link to the MSTA conference? I'm thinking about making the trip. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 12:32:18 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Friday Joke: Ripped from HawkList Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:33:39 -0500 A drunken man walks into a biker bar, sits down at the bar and orders a drink. Looking around, he sees 3 men sitting at a corner table. He gets up, staggers to the table, leans over, looks at the biggest, meanest one in the face and says, "I went by your grandma's house today and I saw her in the hallway buck naked. Man, she is a fine looking woman!" The biker looks at him and doesn't say a word. His buddies are confused, because he is one bad biker, and would fight at the drop of a hat. The drunk leans on the table again and says, "I got it on with your grandma and she is good, the best I ever had!" The biker's buddies are starting to get really mad, but the biker still says nothing. The drunk leans on the table one more time and says, "I'll tell you something else, boy, your grandma liked it!" At this point the biker stands up, takes the drunk by the shoulders and says, "Grandpa, you're drunk....... Go home!" -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 14:41:34 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Friday Joke: Ripped from HawkList Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 14:40:26 -0400 yeah I couldn't help laughing at that one earlier ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Rob Sharp" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Friday Joke: Ripped from HawkList Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 11:33:39 -0500 A drunken man walks into a biker bar, sits down at the bar and orders a drink. Looking around, he sees 3 men sitting at a corner table. He gets up, staggers to the table, leans over, looks at the biggest, meanest one in the face and says, "I went by your grandma's house today and I saw her in the hallway buck naked. Man, she is a fine looking woman!" The biker looks at him and doesn't say a word. His buddies are confused, because he is one bad biker, and would fight at the drop of a hat. The drunk leans on the table again and says, "I got it on with your grandma and she is good, the best I ever had!" The biker's buddies are starting to get really mad, but the biker still says nothing. The drunk leans on the table one more time and says, "I'll tell you something else, boy, your grandma liked it!" At this point the biker stands up, takes the drunk by the shoulders and says, "Grandpa, you're drunk....... Go home!" -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 15:19:08 2003 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:19:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan Rogers Subject: 1991 GSX600F Katana To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sorry about posting the bike. Need to sell just bought new bike. Thanks 1991 GSX600F Katana for sale -New tires -New Battery, Brakes, Rear Rotor, center stand, plugs when bike was purchased -Two Rear fenders -Custom Black Paint Job -Vance and Hines Exhaust freshly painted -Fender eliminator -MD Inspected -Service manual (a must have to repair the bike) -30K Miles Looks great and runs even better. Mechanically this bike is perfect. Bike has never been down to my knowledge. -Price $2,400 O.B.O -contact Ryan at 301-461-4486 or e-mail for photos or other questions to suprchase@XXXXXX __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 15:27:42 2003 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Source for Ventura bags/kits? To: DC-Cycles Does anyone know of a local dealer for Ventura bags, or a Web discount dealer other than California Sport Touring? TIA -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 8 15:50:04 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: pltrgyst@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Source for Ventura bags/kits? Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2003 15:50:02 -0400 www.azmotorsports.com I own a honda Hawk and if You tell them when you order in the comments section that you "are on the Honda Hawk email list" they will give you 10% off all non clearanced stuff. I got my Ventura system from them and a 1K$ more of other stuff. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: Larry Larson To: DC-Cycles Subject: Source for Ventura bags/kits? Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 12:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Does anyone know of a local dealer for Ventura bags, or a Web discount dealer other than California Sport Touring? TIA -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 11:51:33 2003 Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 11:51:05 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Why ride? Found this on usenet...it seems to apply here...if you substitute "motorcycle" for "bicycle". ;^) A Zen teacher saw five of his students returning from the market, riding their bicycles. When they arrived at the monastery and had dismounted, the teacher asked the students, "Why are you riding your bicycles?" The first student replied, "The bicycle is carrying the sack of potatoes. I am glad that I do not have to carry them on my back!" The teacher praised the first student, "You are a smart boy! When you grow old, you will not walk hunched over like I do." The second student replied, "I love to watch the trees and fields pass by as I roll down the path!" The teacher commended the second student, "Your eyes are open, and you see the world." The third student replied, "When I ride my bicycle, I am content to chant nam myoho renge kyo." The teacher gave praise to the third student, "Your mind will roll with the ease of a newly trued wheel." The fourth student replied, "Riding my bicycle, I live in harmony with all sentient beings." The teacher was pleased, and said to the fourth student, "You are riding on the golden path of non-harming." The fifth student replied, "I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle." The teacher sat at the feet of the fifth student and said, "I am your student!" -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 14:33:45 2003 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 11:33:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: bike shipping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX to the collective knowledge: who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? i need to ship a bike from houston to dc.... and i don't care if it goes around canada to get here. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 17:37:23 2003 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:37:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: bike shipping To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > to the collective knowledge: > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > i need to ship a bike from houston to dc.... and i don't > care if it goes around canada to get here. I haven't heard of anyone cheaper than Forward Air. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 19:02:01 2003 Subject: Re: bike shipping From: Brian Roach To: Tom Gimer Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 09 Aug 2003 19:01:53 -0400 On Sat, 2003-08-09 at 17:37, Larry Larson wrote: > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > to the collective knowledge: > > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > > > i need to ship a bike from houston to dc.... and i don't > > care if it goes around canada to get here. > > I haven't heard of anyone cheaper than Forward Air. > > -- Larry Ditto ... we only use forward air. They now have the motorcycle shipping online, and will even provide the shipping container now (for a charge, I think it's $50 ... we always get one from the local dealer and slap sides on it) https://www.forwardair.com/prepaid/MCmainpage.jsp - Roach From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 19:02:22 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 19:02:12 EDT Subject: Re: bike shipping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/9/2003 2:33:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? Assinsaddle Co? John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 9 19:25:25 2003 Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 16:25:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: bike shipping To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/9/2003 2:33:50 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, > t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > Assinsaddle Co? you want to cover for me on diaper detail? don't forget to clean under the nutsack. ;) -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 10 14:47:23 2003 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 11:47:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: BIKE NIGHT TONIGHT! To: DC Cycles Hope to see you there http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 10 22:34:11 2003 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:33:05 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mark Kitchell CC: DC Cycles Subject: Re: BIKE NIGHT TONIGHT! Mark Kitchell wrote: > Hope to see you there Dagnabitt! I had my boots on and was fixing to grab my helmet and jacket when a friend dropped by with a car problem. Fixed that, still daylight, and a lady friend calls up in tears - her two wild-ass dogs had killed her parrot! Bike night was over by the time the parrot was buried with full honors - flyover of bats. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 10:13:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:13:14 EDT Subject: Re: bike shipping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/9/2003 7:25:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > you want to cover for me on diaper detail? Ummm, let me think aboutNO! You did not ask about practical, just cheap. Mumble, come up with a plan, mumble, no thanks, mumble, mumble..... John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 10:35:55 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: bike shipping Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:35:36 -0400 I'll transport your Ducati to anywhere in the continental US for expenses (including return air fare, 1st class only) plus $600/day. I expect fresh rubber when I start. BTW, I get to pick the route & # of days. --jon (certified Ducati transport service) p. s. I also offer this service on less exotic, but (nearly) equally inspiring motorcycles. ---------TG wrote: > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > > > Assinsaddle Co? > > you want to cover for me on diaper detail? don't forget to > clean under the nutsack. ;) > > > > -- > tg > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 10:41:01 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: bike shipping To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX jon: you can ride my duc to houston, put the xr400r on your back, and bring 'em both home. i'll pay you $400 to do this. --- Jon Strang wrote: > I'll transport your Ducati to anywhere in the continental > US for expenses > (including return air fare, 1st class only) plus > $600/day. I expect fresh > rubber when I start. > > BTW, I get to pick the route & # of days. > > --jon (certified Ducati transport service) > > p. s. I also offer this service on less exotic, but > (nearly) equally > inspiring motorcycles. > > ---------TG wrote: > > > --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > > > t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > > > > > Assinsaddle Co? > > > > you want to cover for me on diaper detail? don't > forget to > > clean under the nutsack. ;) > > > > > > > > -- > > tg > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 11:56:02 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) To: DC Cycles While this question may be best directed toward the VFR list, I am just not a member of that board (too many emails). As Jay nicely pointed out last night, I need new tires. My 1991 VFR has Dunlop D207s onboard. I am willing to re-up with the sames tires. However there may be a better alternative. The one aspect of my driving that I need to consider (which was not the case when I bought the D207s) is that I am now a full-time commuter. Mostly straight line riding, stop lights, going over a curb once per day (parking area). So I need something tough. But of course stickiness is of vital importance. Chuck Pena mentioned that the VFR boys at bike night yesterday were discussing tires and that the ideal setup for a VFR is BT010 front and BT020 rear. Is this true? If so why? Also, I remember not being able to use BTs in the past due to size issues. The VFR requires Front: 120/70 VR17 The BT010 comes in 120/70ZR17 and 120/70ZR17M/C. Will this fit? Rear: 170/60 VR17 The BT020 comes in 170/60R17 and 170/60ZR17M/C. Will this fit? And has ZR replaced VR? Thanks Mark ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 13:42:00 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:41:47 -0400 I'm using a BT010 rear on my Hayabusa. I think I'll get around 6000-7000 miles out of it, with pretty aggressive riding. I'm very happy with it and will probably replace it with another BT010. The tire has worn very well, given the power of my bike. I think the BT020 rear should wear much better for you, while giving up some grip with the harder compound. As to the V vs. Z, it's the speed rating of the tire. V is up to 149mph and Z is 150+ (with car tires, they include W and Y, too). Can't help you on the sizing, as I don't know the specific differences between the sizes you posted. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX Chuck Pena mentioned that the VFR boys at bike night yesterday were discussing tires and that the ideal setup for a VFR is BT010 front and BT020 rear. Is this true? If so why? Also, I remember not being able to use BTs in the past due to size issues. The VFR requires Front: 120/70 VR17 The BT010 comes in 120/70ZR17 and 120/70ZR17M/C. Will this fit? Rear: 170/60 VR17 The BT020 comes in 170/60R17 and 170/60ZR17M/C. Will this fit? And has ZR replaced VR? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 13:44:01 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:43:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks. Since the only difference in the size is the speed rating, I am confident those will fit. --- "wayne@XXXXXX" wrote: > I'm using a BT010 rear on my Hayabusa. I think I'll > get around 6000-7000 > miles out of it, with pretty aggressive riding. I'm > very happy with it and > will probably replace it with another BT010. The > tire has worn very well, > given the power of my bike. I think the BT020 rear > should wear much better > for you, while giving up some grip with the harder > compound. > > As to the V vs. Z, it's the speed rating of the > tire. V is up to 149mph > and Z is 150+ (with car tires, they include W and Y, > too). > > Can't help you on the sizing, as I don't know the > specific differences > between the sizes you posted. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX > > Chuck Pena mentioned that the VFR boys at bike night > yesterday were discussing tires and that the ideal > setup for a VFR is BT010 front and BT020 rear. Is > this true? If so why? > > Also, I remember not being able to use BTs in the > past > due to size issues. The VFR requires > > Front: 120/70 VR17 > > The BT010 comes in 120/70ZR17 and 120/70ZR17M/C. > Will > this fit? > > Rear: 170/60 VR17 > > The BT020 comes in 170/60R17 and 170/60ZR17M/C. > Will > this fit? And has ZR replaced VR? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 13:52:27 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:52:15 -0400 Ooops, I guess I should have paid more attention to the sizes :-) -- Wayne Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX Thanks. Since the only difference in the size is the speed rating, I am confident those will fit. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 14:26:01 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:13:53 -0400 Mark, I've been very happy with my BT10/BT20 Combo. Have about 6,000 miles on them with plenty of tread left, and I'm sure they will do the trick for you, too. Justin and Herb run the same combo, as well. Previously, I had both BT10's and found the rear to thin a bit faster than the front, so I'm hoping this difference now will work out evenly. The letters are for speed ratings, but as long as the numbers match for the sizing, they should have no problems fitting your wheels. If you like, you are more than welcome to bring your bike to my garage to take the wheels off and have CAD put on the new tires....assuming you'll mail order them. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Mark Kitchell To: DC Cycles Subject: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 08:55:53 -0700 (PDT) While this question may be best directed toward the VFR list, I am just not a member of that board (too many emails). As Jay nicely pointed out last night, I need new tires. My 1991 VFR has Dunlop D207s onboard. I am willing to re-up with the sames tires. However there may be a better alternative. The one aspect of my driving that I need to consider (which was not the case when I bought the D207s) is that I am now a full-time commuter. Mostly straight line riding, stop lights, going over a curb once per day (parking area). So I need something tough. But of course stickiness is of vital importance. Chuck Pena mentioned that the VFR boys at bike night yesterday were discussing tires and that the ideal setup for a VFR is BT010 front and BT020 rear. Is this true? If so why? Also, I remember not being able to use BTs in the past due to size issues. The VFR requires Front: 120/70 VR17 The BT010 comes in 120/70ZR17 and 120/70ZR17M/C. Will this fit? Rear: 170/60 VR17 The BT020 comes in 170/60R17 and 170/60ZR17M/C. Will this fit? And has ZR replaced VR? Thanks Mark ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 14:29:39 2003 Subject: RE: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:29:30 -0400 From: "ROBERSON, Brian" To: Mark, Most of us run BT 010's on the front because the tire tracks better. The 020 front seems to follow grooves more. I run the 020 out back for better overall tire mileage. Brian -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 1:44 PM To: wayne@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Thanks. Since the only difference in the size is the speed rating, I am confident those will fit. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 14:32:05 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:31:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: What do people think about the Triumphs? To: Rob Keiser , markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Specifically, the Bonnevilles or the Speedmasters. Love 'em; hate em; great/terrible deal for the $? Good machines, or do they break down a lot. I kinda like the styles, and they're not all that expensive. Of course, I've only had my Suzuki Marauder for 16 months .... jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 14:46:39 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:46:31 -0400 Mark, Not VFR-specific advice, but I've had both BT020s and 010s on the big Bandit. With the 020s I slid around quite a bit under "spirited" (aka ultra-legal) cornering. I also had significant wheelspin exiting corners under full throttle in second/third gear. Granted, my riding style is more "tip-toe in until I can see all the way through the corner then hammer it" than going for a smooth exit. Also, El Bandito Grande has a bit more than stock horsepower, so it was pretty easy to overwhelm the rear tire. I didn't get very good mileage for a sport/touring tire (5k?), but had lots of fun. I went to 010s, and lost the problem of excessive wheelspin. Cornering is much better, better than the chassis can support. I think my eventual mileage will equal the 020s. --jon 2001 Suz00k Bandit 1200 > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX > > Chuck Pena mentioned that the VFR boys at bike night > yesterday were discussing tires and that the ideal > setup for a VFR is BT010 front and BT020 rear. Is > this true? If so why? > > Also, I remember not being able to use BTs in the past > due to size issues. The VFR requires > > Front: 120/70 VR17 > > The BT010 comes in 120/70ZR17 and 120/70ZR17M/C. Will > this fit? > > Rear: 170/60 VR17 > > The BT020 comes in 170/60R17 and 170/60ZR17M/C. Will > this fit? And has ZR replaced VR? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 14:52:28 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 11:52:13 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: riding and prosthetics To: DC Cycles A good friend lost his foot and part of his leg over the weekend (not a motorcycle accident). As he is the one who taught me how to ride all those years ago, I am hoping to repay the favor by finding out whatever I can on riding with a prosthetic device. My Internet searches are coming up very hit-or-miss, and I am mostly getting sites that either have nothing to do with the subject, or want to sell me things. I'm wondering if anyone on the list is an amputee or knows anyone who is an amputee who rides. I'm looking more for a general overview of the whole experience, rather than product recommendations right now (he's not even out of the hospital yet). Any referrals to support groups, references, books, web sites, etc would also be wonderful and deeply appreciated. Motorcycles always have been a real big part of his life and while he is in good spirits right now, I want to do what I can to keep him positive. Thanks, cheers, Patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:03:46 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:03:17 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dcpatti@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Patti, I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. You didn't say which leg had to be amputated? Left or right? He shouldn't have any problems getting back on a bike whichever leg it is. Here's a link to an AMA Disabled Resource List that might help. http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/DISBresourcelistings.asp I hope this helps and your friend gets better soon. Scooter In a message dated 8/11/2003 2:52:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > > > A good friend lost his foot and part of his leg over > the weekend (not a motorcycle accident). As he is the > one who taught me how to ride all those years ago, I > am hoping to repay the favor by finding out whatever I > can on riding with a prosthetic device. My Internet > searches are coming up very hit-or-miss, and I am > mostly getting sites that either have nothing to do > with the subject, or want to sell me things. > > I'm wondering if anyone on the list is an amputee or > knows anyone who is an amputee who rides. I'm looking > more for a general overview of the whole experience, > rather than product recommendations right now (he's > not even out of the hospital yet). Any referrals to > support groups, references, books, web sites, etc > would also be wonderful and deeply appreciated. > Motorcycles always have been a real big part of his > life and while he is in good spirits right now, I want > to do what I can to keep him positive. > > Thanks, cheers, > > Patti > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:08:43 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:08:10 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dcpatti@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Also, what key words did you search on? I did a search on "+motorcycle +riding +amputee" and came up with over 300 hits and most of them seemed to be what you were looking for. Scooter In a message dated 8/11/2003 3:03:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ScooterFZR writes: > > > Patti, > > I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. You didn't say which leg had to be amputated? Left or right? He shouldn't have any problems getting back on a bike whichever leg it is. Here's a link to an AMA Disabled Resource List that might help. http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/DISBresourcelistings.asp I hope this helps and your friend gets better soon. > > Scooter > > In a message dated 8/11/2003 2:52:13 PM Eastern Daylight > Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > A good friend lost his foot and part of his leg over > > the weekend (not a motorcycle accident). As he is the > > one who taught me how to ride all those years ago, I > > am hoping to repay the favor by finding out whatever I > > can on riding with a prosthetic device. My Internet > > searches are coming up very hit-or-miss, and I am > > mostly getting sites that either have nothing to do > > with the subject, or want to sell me things. > > > > I'm wondering if anyone on the list is an amputee or > > knows anyone who is an amputee who rides. I'm looking > > more for a general overview of the whole experience, > > rather than product recommendations right now (he's > > not even out of the hospital yet). Any referrals to > > support groups, references, books, web sites, etc > > would also be wonderful and deeply appreciated. > > Motorcycles always have been a real big part of his > > life and while he is in good spirits right now, I want > > to do what I can to keep him positive. > > > > Thanks, cheers, > > > > Patti > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:12:43 2003 Subject: RE: riding and prosthetics Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:12:30 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "dcpatti" , "DC Cycles" Have a look at http://www.m3racer.com/ It's a personal web site of a rider who lost his leg and how he dealt with it. I could've sworn than he had posted pictures of himself doing wheelies on sportbikes.net, but I can't find those photos anymore. Point is, it can be done. Witold www.witold.org > -----Original Message----- > From: dcpatti [mailto:dcpatti@XXXXXX] > I'm wondering if anyone on the list is an amputee or > knows anyone who is an amputee who rides. I'm looking > more for a general overview of the whole experience, > rather than product recommendations right now (he's > not even out of the hospital yet). Any referrals to > support groups, references, books, web sites, etc > would also be wonderful and deeply appreciated. > Motorcycles always have been a real big part of his > life and while he is in good spirits right now, I want > to do what I can to keep him positive. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:14:38 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:14:36 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > I did a > search on "+motorcycle +riding +amputee" and came up > with over 300 hits and most of them seemed to be > what you were looking for. Might be my firewall here at work. I used Yahoo search engine; it will not be the first time that the firewall acted funky like that! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:16:02 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 12:15:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: What do people think about the Triumphs? To: Isaac Blanck Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > Specifically, the Bonnevilles or the Speedmasters. > Love 'em; hate em; great/terrible deal for the $? > Good machines, or do they break down a lot. I kinda > like the styles, and they're not all that expensive. I've been lusting after the Speedmaster for a while. I like its looks, plus it's the only Triumph cruiser-type with alloy wheels instead of spokes. >From what I've read, all the Tr cruisers are dead reliable. I tend to think of the Speedmaster as a Magna with a rear disk brake and better sounding pipes. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 15:33:34 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:33:18 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: VFR Tires (Paul, Rob, Herb?) Jon Strang wrote: >Mark, > >Not VFR-specific advice, > Same here, many on the VTR-list use the bt010/020 setup and get good results for traction and mileage. Some of the best mileage actually is on the 010/020 (without compromising traction). The VTR tends to 'eat' rear tires I've heard of some that last as much as 8k, and some a little as 3k. Most are around 6k. YMWV. For the mileage, traction, and price they're hard to pass up. Tom de '98 VTR. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 16:12:29 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:12:11 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: dcpatti@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Hmmmm.......that's possible. I use www.altavista.com personally. Seems to work pretty good and I find some stuff on it that I don't find on Yahoo. Oh well, happy to be of service for the Internet search impaired. ;-) Scooter In a message dated 8/11/2003 3:14:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dcpatti@XXXXXX writes: > > > > I did a > > search on "+motorcycle +riding +amputee" and came up > > with over 300 hits and most of them seemed to be > > what you were looking for. > > Might be my firewall here at work. I used Yahoo search > engine; it will not be the first time that the > firewall acted funky like that! > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 16:34:49 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: bike shipping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom Gimer wrote: > to the collective knowledge: > who's the CHEAPEST cycle transport company? > > i need to ship a bike from houston to dc.... and i don't > care if it goes around canada to get here. heh, I can't vouch for cheapest but try Allied. Federal Companies handles most of the bikes. With any luck it will come in on the weekly truck out of Houston into bay #4 at our Bloomingdale, IL dock and then go out on bay #9 on the regular shuttle to VA/MD. The bikes are loaded as is onto a big pallet and tied down with 4 cinch straps. Allied will pick it up and deliver practically anywhere including houses. In case anyone wondered, this otherwise unemployed computer security/programmer type is making a meager living working for Allied Van lines. And yes, I've loaded/unloaded my share of bikes - especially HD's since everyone and their brother is shipping the bikes to places like Elgin, IL lest they have to actually ride their bikes more than 300 miles to the Milwaukee shindig this summer. The dock I work at is the only one in the USA that has trucks coming in from all over the country to exchange cargo. Our bay on Mondays and Saturdays sometimes puts the AMA motorcycle museum to shame. We get all kinds of historic/exotic 2-wheelers thru here. We had a wooden-wheeled steam-powered motorized bicycle in here last week. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 17:45:40 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: MC Fairfax tax decals Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:47:06 -0400 Has anyone noticed the new Fairfax County MC tax decals? They are just printed on the same (paper) page as the bill, with an adhesive patch in the spot underneath the decal. Also, they still charge you the $18.00 "Decal Fee" when it's printed on the same page as the bill????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mike 96 VFR - $47 88 Hawk - $34 76 CB400F - $18 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 17:57:14 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:57:24 -0400 To: dcpatti , DC Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics At 11:52 AM 8/11/03 -0700, dcpatti wrote: >A good friend lost his foot and part of his leg over >the weekend (not a motorcycle accident). As he is the >one who taught me how to ride all those years ago, I >am hoping to repay the favor by finding out whatever I >can on riding with a prosthetic device. My Internet >searches are coming up very hit-or-miss, and I am >mostly getting sites that either have nothing to do >with the subject, or want to sell me things. I found these sites (and more)with an advanced Google search (http://www.google.com/search?q=motorcycle+ride+amputee+OR+prosthetic&num=20 &hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&start=20&sa=N): + + + + + London, England - (MCNW) Mervyn Phillips, a 49 year-old motorcyclist with his left leg amputated below the knee, is planning an attempt on the record of circumnavigation of the globe on a solo motorcycle. Setting off in April 2001 aboard his 900 cc Triumph Adventurer motorcycle, Mervyn hopes to break the Guinness World Record set by Nick Sanders in 1997 of 19,936 miles in 31 days and 20 hours. http://www.americanmotor.com/news.cfm?newsid=1466 + + + + + Four Corners Rally September 6, 2003 through October 4th, 2003 This is a nonprofit organization that offers peer counseling to new amputees or those who have experienced limb loss. We offer service to anyone in need from trained Amputees who have made a successful transition in living with amputation. We will be presenting a Four Corners Motorcycle Rally from Tucson, Arizona to Daytona Beach, Florida, to New York, New York, on to Seattle, Washington and San Diego, California and back to Tucson. Our goal is to carry the Motto of the AMOA which is to "focus on the abilities of the Amputee". Daryl Hinson, President and Founder of AMOA, is an above the knee amputee who has chalked up over 350,000 miles riding non-modified motorcycles. http://www.angelsharleyevents.com/angels_topic_ec.htm + + + + + Dave Barr is a native Californian who rode his 1972 Harley-Davidson around the world. His journey carried him across six continents and took a grueling three and a half years (September 1990 - May 1994) and 83,000 ridden miles to complete. To date only eighty-nine others have successfully toured the world on motorcycle, but Dave is the only one to do it on a Harley. If this wasn't enough of a distinction, he's also the only disabled person to have accomplished such a feat. Dave is a double amputee, who lost both of his legs to a land mine explosion in Angola in 1981. Dave has written and published Riding The Edge, a five hundred page book which documents his journey around the world and has also produced a video by the same name. http://www.motorcyclesafety.state.mn.us/pages/ad_pages/ac_safetyconference.h tml http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/davebarr/ + + + + + Showers faces many challenges on the racetrack, not the least of which is his disability. Showers is a double amputee. He lost both of his legs after a tragic accident as a teenager, but has not let that stop him from pursuing his dreams. With the help of a determined heart, positive attitude, and more than enough courage, Showers skillfully competes in the intense world of NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle drag racing. http://www.nhra.com/2001/news/march/030401.html http://www.stripbike.com/rs81202.html + + + + + Along the way we encourage and welcome all riders, especially amputees, to join us for as much time as you can whether it be one mile, ten, a hundred or more. Imagine the impact our message of overcoming adversity will have when our group, including one-legged and one-armed motorcyclists, pulls up to a prosthetic shop, bike store or veteran)B’s hospital en masse. Imagine the hope and inspiration we can give new amputees. And the understanding we can pass along to children. http://www.amputeementors.org/Special%20Events.htm + + + + + Calling himself the "World's Fastest Amputee,'' Showers wears his disability like a badge. The lanky 6-footer proudly shows off his special race legs, which make him 5 inches shorter -- better for maneuvering his Suzuki down a drag strip at speeds topping 190 mph. http://espn.go.com/rpm/nhra/2002/0807/1415314.html + + + + + With a right-leg, below knee amputation, Zahn is able to ride his Harley Davidson motorcycle again with the aid of a specially fit prosthetic leg www.stumps.org/PressRelease_OakGroveAcres_13Mar03.pdf + + + + + Through his stay at Roger C. Peace, help from the therapists at Home Health Services, and the attention to details from Prosthetic Care of Greenville, Grant is facing the world head-on again and ready to get back to work. The only evidence remaining of his injuries is a limp from his prosthetic left leg. Currently Grant is pursuing several opportunities and is currently looking for a full-time job. When not job hunting, Grant can be found in the Travelers Rest community playing softball, water skiing, swimming, and even an occasional ride on a motorcycle. http://www.thebloodconnection.org/testimonials/05.htm + + + + + Disabled Riders Refuse to Quit Riding http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/DisabledRiders.asp + + + + + Disabled Riders Resource list: The companies and individuals listed below sell products that may be helpful to motorcyclists with disabilities. These listings do not imply an endorsement of these companies by the AMA and the AMA has neither tested nor evaluated the products. Modifying a motorcycle's original design may create new risks. http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/DISBresourcelistings.asp + + + + + Hope your friend gets well soon, and can get back to riding like some of these folks have. The search also turned up some folks who sell things that might help, but you said you found enough of those sorts. :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 18:10:05 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 15:09:52 -0700 (PDT) From: dcpatti Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics To: Mike Bartman , DC Cycles --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > I found these sites (and more)with an advanced > Google search > (http://www.google.com/search?q=motorcycle+ride+amputee+OR+prosthetic&num=20 > &hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&as_qdr=all&start=20&sa=N): > Thanks, Mike. Seems like it was firewall impairement on my part; a lot more stuff comes up when I try it at home. But this is totally what I am looking for, mostly the transition and support info. It is really hard to try and figure out where to begin on this. Having a group/transition plan is going to be an excellent resource. -patti __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 11 19:26:19 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: MC Fairfax tax decals Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:26:00 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79a40607a941d9e1861cf258009fb09baf350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Has anyone noticed the new Fairfax County MC tax decals? They are just > printed on the same (paper) page as the bill, with an adhesive patch in the > spot underneath the decal. > > Also, they still charge you the $18.00 "Decal Fee" when it's printed on the > same page as the bill????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Dave] Yeah. it sucks, and, it probably cost more to generate than the old style. Leave it to UnFairTax... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 00:16:10 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:15:58 -0500 To: mike@XXXXXX, thomasajordan@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Oh holy crap! Do I ever want one of these...!! Troutman, you might want to suck this down before this poor sod's bandwidth gets exceeded... :) http://www.sportbikerider.us/Sportb...ures/video2.wmv -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 00:18:26 2003 Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:18:19 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: D'oh! Fixed link! (Was "Holy crap....") http://www.sportbikerider.us/Sportb...ures/video2.wmv -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 07:23:51 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:37:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Oh holy crap! Do I ever want one of these...!! On Mon, 11 Aug 2003, Sean Jordan wrote: > Troutman, you might want to suck this down before this poor sod's bandwidth > gets exceeded... :) > > http://www.sportbikerider.us/Sportb...ures/video2.wmv > > -Sean Jordan You might want to check the archives, Sean... someone posted this, along with a discussion of pricing about 2 weeks ago :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 07:34:21 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:48:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Friends like that, who needs enemies? http://www.sportsbikerider.com/useruploads/video/SBR70_ChainSnapper.mpeg Listen to his 'friends' in the background :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 07:55:13 2003 From: "Hertzler Conrad" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:54:53 +0200 Content-Language: en Subject: renting in Germany I'm in Heidelberg, Germany with this coming Friday and Saturday free. Has anyone rented a motorraad (motorcycle) here? Any advice? I'd like cheap and scatched better than expensive and shiny. Conrad Hertzler (on digest mode) '92 Honda Nighthawk 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 09:54:22 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 09:54:27 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Friends like that, who needs enemies? At 07:48 AM 8/12/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://www.sportsbikerider.com/useruploads/video/SBR70_ChainSnapper.mpeg > >Listen to his 'friends' in the background :-) I wonder if it was just the horsepower punch that snapped it, or if there was some flex in the rear end that twisted it? It went not when he "punched it", but just as his rear tire went squirrely for a second. -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 11:31:46 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:31:34 EDT Subject: Re: bike shipping To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/11/2003 10:41:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, t_gimer@XXXXXX writes: > xr400r Cool! Is there an off-road route? What a hoot that would be. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 12:07:18 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:08:55 -0500 From: "George Cole" To: Subject: A few bike night photos Here are a few photos from Bike Night on Sunday. http://gfacter.smugmug.com/gallery/17799 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 13:54:29 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 10:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: IBR Reports. Are people on this list interested in reading Bob Higdon's Iron Butt Rally reports? (Anyone not already subscribed to LDR, that is.) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 14:26:39 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. I wonder what OS they're running: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49575-2003Aug12.html -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 14:30:30 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:44:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. On Tue, 12 Aug 2003, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > > I wonder what OS they're running: > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49575-2003Aug12.html C'mon, it's the DMV. They're running Windows... 3.11 ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 15:33:43 2003 Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:33:43 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. At 02:26 PM 8/12/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > >I wonder what OS they're running: > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49575-2003Aug12.html Most likely Windows 2000 or Win-XP. Both are vulnerable to a new worm that hit yesterday. It invades those OSs through an RPC call associated with the object sharing stuff (typical MS lack of security awareness..."Run Windows and be vulnerable!") Apparently this one was written only to highlight MicroSloth's lack of security and uncaring attitude about how vulnerable they've left their customers, despite many, many complaints over the years. It doesn't seem to damage the system much, though it does make it shut down, and it contains the phrase "billy gates why do you make this possible? Stop making money and fix your software!!" More info at: http://www.techtv.com/news/securityalert/story/0,24195,3498394,00.html -- Mike **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 17:21:54 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A few bike night photos Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:21:44 -0400 Damn , them VFR's are purdy! ;-) Rob '98 Red From: "George Cole" To: Subject: A few bike night photos Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:08:55 -0500 Here are a few photos from Bike Night on Sunday. http://gfacter.smugmug.com/gallery/17799 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 17:40:41 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:42:10 -0500 It's completely pathetic that the DMV is closed because of this. The patch has been out since early July 2003. Seriously, Ms Windows has automatic updates. There is no excuse other than incompetence. The gov't especially should not be susceptible, they place regulations on financial and healthcare industries but they should place the same regulations on themselves. Regards, Rob "Disgruntled Security Engineer who is sick of security taking a back seat " Sharp On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:26:10 -0400 (EDT), Daniel H. Brown wrote > I wonder what OS they're running: > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49575-2003Aug12.html > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 12 17:59:52 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:59:23 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec79bf0e0a858c0f2ff1d6d1612923a94c05350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > It's completely pathetic that the DMV is closed because of this. The patch > has been out since early July 2003. Seriously, Ms Windows has automatic > updates. There is no excuse other than incompetence. [Dave] It's MVA, not DMV. It's been my experience that in order to justify their existence, the Winbloze admins disable auto-update, so that they will seem much more busy. > > The gov't especially should not be susceptible, they place regulations on > financial and healthcare industries but they should place the same regulations > on themselves. > > Rob "Disgruntled Security Engineer who is sick of security taking a back seat > " Sharp [Dave] the Benevolent MVA is from the government, and there to help... and they have a bottomless pit of fee / tax funded money to pick from. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 00:12:14 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:11:42 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Almost moto... MD DMV Closed due to virus. At 04:42 PM 8/12/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >It's completely pathetic that the DMV is closed because of this. The patch >has been out since early July 2003. Seriously, Ms Windows has automatic >updates. There is no excuse other than incompetence. Bureaucracy. If I was in charge of IT for the MVA I wouldn't want every secretary and clerk updating software any time they liked. I wouldn't want them to be able to run more than the program(s) it takes to do their jobs. Anything else is a nightmare and would result in far more downtime than this recent thing. I would like to have some sort of method for rapidly and easily updating all the machines I was responsible for, and would do so on a regular basis (since M$ seems to put out patches on a regular basis...). On the other hand, if I was in charge of IT for the MVA I wouldn't want to be running Windows. It's a security quagmire loaded with landmines. >The gov't especially should not be susceptible, they place regulations on >financial and healthcare industries but they should place the same regulations >on themselves. Governments usually exempt themselves from the regulations they saddle the rest of us with. They aren't required to follow local fire codes. Congress is exempt from the equal employment act, and is free to discriminate all they like in their hiring practices. There are lots of examples, I'm sure. Those are just two that I've run across in the past. >Rob "Disgruntled Security Engineer who is sick of security taking a back seat >" Sharp MicroSoft is to computer security as Mattel is to Motorcycles... -- Mike "desperate attempt to work motorcycles into this" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 08:19:58 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:33:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Ouch - R1 crash http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of the engine, it seems like he hit the brake. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 08:24:33 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:38:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of the > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. Replying to my own post... :-) I watched it again and didn't see his rear brake light. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 08:49:23 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:48:57 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash Wayne Edelen wrote: >On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >>http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg >> >>Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of the >>engine, it seems like he hit the brake. >> >> > >Replying to my own post... :-) I watched it again and didn't see his >rear brake light. > >-- Wayne > > > Thats what I thought initially, but didn't see the light. Probably cut the throttle. ouch. Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 08:54:21 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 05:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash To: Tom , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I dunno. He left a helluva skid mark. Could be he hit the break before the taillight came into the picture. jib --- Tom wrote: > Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > > > > > >>http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > >> > >>Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based > on the sound of the > >>engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > >> > >> > > > >Replying to my own post... :-) I watched it again > and didn't see his > >rear brake light. > > > >-- Wayne > > > > > > > Thats what I thought initially, but didn't see the > light. Probably cut > the throttle. ouch. > > Tom de '98 VTR > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 09:01:16 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:01:08 -0400 Looks like he spun up the rear tire, then chopped the throttle. oopsie. I think the bike motor you can hear is the one in front. --jon ----- Wayne asked: > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of the > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 09:26:16 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:26:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash To: Jon Strang , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Chopped=?? Cut off? --- Jon Strang wrote: > Looks like he spun up the rear tire, then chopped > the throttle. oopsie. > > I think the bike motor you can hear is the one in > front. > > --jon > ----- Wayne asked: > > > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based > on the sound of the > > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:23:54 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:19:00 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Wayne Edelen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:23:43 -0500 Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > >Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of the >engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > >-- Wayne > > Wayne, Looking at it in slow-motion, it looks like he locked the rear brake, (due to the skid.) Then he locks the front brake, high siding. The angle and lighting, kinda' looks bad for seeing the brake light. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:38:28 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:37:40 -0400 To: Tom , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash At 08:48 AM 8/13/03 -0400, Tom wrote: >Wayne Edelen wrote: >>Replying to my own post... :-) I watched it again and didn't see his >>rear brake light. >> >Thats what I thought initially, but didn't see the light. Probably cut >the throttle. ouch. Looked like he broke the rear tire loose accelerating out of the turn. He counter-steered, and the bike came up vertically again, but that unloaded the suspension, which rebounded, and threw him, and the bike, upwards. He left the seat about the same time the bike left the ground slightly. Since the bike was rotating as it left the ground, it got a bit sideways in the air, and came down that way and that's when it went over sideways, but he was already hovering over it at the time, so wasn't caught under it when it went down. Looked like he landed ahead of it though...hope his butt-brakes weren't any better than the bike's side-brakes... -- Mike "I love digital stop motion" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:42:41 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:42:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , Wayne Edelen Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX the only brake/break in that clip is a femur. --- "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > > > Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > > >Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on > the sound of the > >engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > > >-- Wayne > > > > > > Wayne, > Looking at it in slow-motion, it looks > like he locked > the rear brake, (due to the skid.) Then he locks the > front brake, high > siding. The angle and lighting, kinda' looks bad for > seeing the brake > light. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:48:29 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:49:59 -0500 There is a skid mark coming off the rear tire, maybe a downshift locked up the rear tire? Rob On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:33:49 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the sound of > the engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > -- Wayne -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:51:55 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 07:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash To: Rob Sharp , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX it's called tire spin. r1s do this. regularly. --- Rob Sharp wrote: > There is a skid mark coming off the rear tire, maybe a > downshift locked up the > rear tire? > > Rob > > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:33:49 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen > wrote > > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on > the sound of > > the engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > > > -- Wayne > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 10:54:34 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:53:12 -0400 Yes. Ham Fist, the legendary ace R1 pilot, grabbed way too much throttle, lit up the rear tire, paniced, and then rapidly closed the throttle. Rear end abruptly got traction back and the bike high-sided. The suspension loaded and then unloaded so violently as the back end swapped back around that the rear tire kicked into the air. Ham Fist then took a tarmac sample for later analysis back at Squidly Laboratories, LLC. No brakes at all. I did that same maneuver on a Yamaha myself. But it was a 1973 GTMX 80, and I was 7. And it was on a dirt road. I think I bent a clutch lever, and skinned my knee. And learned a valuable lesson. --jon ----- "Mark Kitchell" queried. > Chopped=?? > > Cut off? > > > --- Jon Strang wrote: > > Looks like he spun up the rear tire, then chopped > > the throttle. oopsie. > > > > I think the bike motor you can hear is the one in > > front. > > > > --jon > > ----- Wayne asked: > > > > > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > > > > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based > > on the sound of the > > > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 11:36:08 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Jon Strang" , Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:37:39 -0500 D'oh. Glad my little Hawk GT doesn't have that much power. Rob On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:53:12 -0400, Jon Strang wrote > Yes. Ham Fist, the legendary ace R1 pilot, grabbed way too much > throttle, lit up the rear tire, paniced, and then rapidly closed the > throttle. Rear end abruptly got traction back and the bike high- > sided. The suspension loaded and then unloaded so violently as the > back end swapped back around that the rear tire kicked into the air. > Ham Fist then took a tarmac sample for later analysis back at > Squidly Laboratories, LLC. > > No brakes at all. > > I did that same maneuver on a Yamaha myself. But it was a 1973 GTMX > 80, and I was 7. And it was on a dirt road. I think I bent a > clutch lever, and skinned my knee. And learned a valuable lesson. > > --jon > > ----- "Mark Kitchell" queried. > > > Chopped=?? > > > > Cut off? > > > > > > --- Jon Strang wrote: > > > Looks like he spun up the rear tire, then chopped > > > the throttle. oopsie. > > > > > > I think the bike motor you can hear is the one in > > > front. > > > > > > --jon > > > ----- Wayne asked: > > > > > > > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > > > > > > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based > > > on the sound of the > > > > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 11:59:28 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:59:13 -0400 From: STmaven@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Ouch - R1 crash X-AOL-IP: 128.164.159.60 looks like the guy gave the bike a little too much gas coming out of the turn. In a message dated 8/13/2003 8:33:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > > > http://www.head-shake.com/movies/DPT2.mpg > > Did he hit the brake or spin the rear tire? Based on the > sound of the > engine, it seems like he hit the brake. > > -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 18:08:15 2003 From: "Kathleen Loerich" To: "dcpatti" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: riding and prosthetics Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:07:53 -0400 A few years ago I was in Aberdeen, Maryland and found a shop called Zoellers. It was run by Barry Zoeller who is a paraplegic. He specializes in customizing bikes for individuals with handicaps. I haven't been up there for awhile, but if he is still around that might be a good place to check out. He had a nice customized Trike that he built for himself that had a tray on the back for a wheelchair and toe clips and a 'picket fence' rail on the floor boards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcpatti" To: "DC Cycles" Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: riding and prosthetics > A good friend lost his foot and part of his leg over > the weekend (not a motorcycle accident). As he is the > one who taught me how to ride all those years ago, I > am hoping to repay the favor by finding out whatever I > can on riding with a prosthetic device. My Internet > searches are coming up very hit-or-miss, and I am > mostly getting sites that either have nothing to do > with the subject, or want to sell me things. > > I'm wondering if anyone on the list is an amputee or > knows anyone who is an amputee who rides. I'm looking > more for a general overview of the whole experience, > rather than product recommendations right now (he's > not even out of the hospital yet). Any referrals to > support groups, references, books, web sites, etc > would also be wonderful and deeply appreciated. > Motorcycles always have been a real big part of his > life and while he is in good spirits right now, I want > to do what I can to keep him positive. > > Thanks, cheers, > > Patti > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 18:38:04 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'vfr750@XXXXXX'" Subject: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:39:31 -0400 This will probably end up long. The Percoset may make it skewed too. The VFR is looking pretty ugly. On my way to work Tuesday AM I got hit. Part 1 The accident: Ironically, there were fire trucks responding to the Fire Service building in DC on the corner of 14th and Independence. Due to the traffic, I lanesplit up through the traffic, popping out into the intersection from coming off of 395. When the officer directing traffic in that intersection waved us through, I was the first one to go. No other traffic was in front of me while traveling north on 14th St after passing Independence Ave, where oncoming traffic was gridlocked. I was approaching the next intersection on the Mall (Jefferson Dr), in the middle lane, with a green light. An oncoming car started to turn left from the left lane in front of me. Identifying him, I began braking and laid on the horn with a good beeeeeep-beeeeeeeeeeeeep (as opposed to a beep-beep). He stopped in the left lane of the (my)northbound direction when he saw me. By this time, I was crossing the leading crosswalk in that intersection, still on the brakes, doing ~20MPH. Right as I crossed the crosswalk, still keeping an eye on the left-turner, out of the far left corner of my eye, I notice something else. As I just get my head turned left to see, a guy on the cell phone looking the other direction from the direction in which he was travelling, T-bones me. I tumble off the bike and land in the intersection. I hear the VFR's RPMs roaring out of the TBR pipe. I look up to see it laying about 10 feet away from me, on its right side. I try to crawl over to it to stop it, but can't, and I give up and roll over on the pavement. I hear someone shut it off. A tourist EMT who saw the whole thing runs over, kneels down and holds my head and and talks to me until the ambulance gets there. Mike 96 VFR - crunch 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 18:38:04 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'vfr750@XXXXXX'" Subject: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:39:42 -0400 Part 2 The Trauma Center: You know the show ER where they show the ambulance scream up, they wheel the stretcher in while screaming stats and identification, race into a prepped room and like 8 people are already standing there dressed, waiting? Yeah. Freaky. They immediately, totally cut every stitch of clothing off of me. Embarrasing. After 6 hours in the Trauma unit including a full torso ultrasound, CT scan, and batches of x-rays, pokings, proddings, doses of drugs, evaluations, etc, I get released. Diagnosis: bruised back and pelvis. Not bad. Random thoughts: On the police report, the other guy admits to being on the phone AND not paying attention to what he was doing. It's written right on there. As it turns out from the police report, he took a left turn from the RIGHT LANE! Unbelievable. The VFR has damage on every body panel, lever, or any other outward protruding part, including the Givi case. But, to its credit, it still drives. Guess it's time to rebuild. Seems like Computrack is in order too. Be careful out there. Mike 96 VFR - crunch 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 18:42:31 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Car vs. MC Grah. Glad to hear you're, err, mostly okay. Sorry to hear about the bike. Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 18:47:12 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: "DCCycles" Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:46:30 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec798fdbf2e91030db29c02f871dd3182f50350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > Random thoughts: [Dave] Damn... glad you're ok. > > On the police report, the other guy admits to being on the phone AND not > paying attention to what he was doing. It's written right on there. As it > turns out from the police report, he took a left turn from the RIGHT LANE! > Unbelievable. [Dave] I wish it were. > > The VFR has damage on every body panel, lever, or any other outward > protruding part, including the Givi case. But, to its credit, it still > drives. Guess it's time to rebuild. Seems like Computrack is in order too. > get well soon... Dave From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 19:03:52 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: MLynch@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: vfr750@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:52:08 -0400 Damn, Mike. Sorry to hear the reports, but sure glad you're ok. Rebuild and Ride again soon! Rob '98 VFR800 From: Michael Lynch To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" CC: "'vfr750@XXXXXX'" Subject: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 18:39:42 -0400 Part 2 The Trauma Center: You know the show ER where they show the ambulance scream up, they wheel the stretcher in while screaming stats and identification, race into a prepped room and like 8 people are already standing there dressed, waiting? Yeah. Freaky. They immediately, totally cut every stitch of clothing off of me. Embarrasing. After 6 hours in the Trauma unit including a full torso ultrasound, CT scan, and batches of x-rays, pokings, proddings, doses of drugs, evaluations, etc, I get released. Diagnosis: bruised back and pelvis. Not bad. Random thoughts: On the police report, the other guy admits to being on the phone AND not paying attention to what he was doing. It's written right on there. As it turns out from the police report, he took a left turn from the RIGHT LANE! Unbelievable. The VFR has damage on every body panel, lever, or any other outward protruding part, including the Givi case. But, to its credit, it still drives. Guess it's time to rebuild. Seems like Computrack is in order too. Be careful out there. Mike 96 VFR - crunch 88 Hawk 76 CB400F _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 20:34:10 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:47:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > On the police report, the other guy admits to being on the phone AND not > paying attention to what he was doing. It's written right on there. As it > turns out from the police report, he took a left turn from the RIGHT LANE! > Unbelievable. That really sucks. He took your life into his hands because he was too fucking stupid to not talk on the phone and drive :-( > The VFR has damage on every body panel, lever, or any other outward > protruding part, including the Givi case. But, to its credit, it still > drives. Guess it's time to rebuild. Seems like Computrack is in order too. > > Be careful out there. > > Mike > 96 VFR - crunch It's good that you made out so well in the crash. Bikes come and go, but there's only one of you :-) I hope you're feeling better soon and everything works out with insurance, etc. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 20:36:42 2003 From: "rich hall" To: fish@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:36:33 -0400 This couldn't happen outside a city????????? Please. >From: Fish Flowers >To: DC-Cycles >Subject: Re: Car vs. MC >Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT) > >Grah. Glad to hear you're, err, mostly okay. Sorry to hear about the bike. > >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) > >Fish. > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 20:40:44 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Harley joke Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:40:36 -0400 >>The inventor Arthur Davidson, of the Harley Davidson >> >Motorcycle Corporation, died and went to heaven. At >> >the gates, St. Peter told Arthur, "Since you've been >> >such a good man and your motorcycles have changed the >> >world, your reward is, you can hang out with anyone >> >you want in Heaven. >> >"Arthur thought about it for a minute and then said, >> >"I want to hang out with God." St. Peter took Arthur >> >to the Throne Room, and introduced him to God. >> > >> >Arthur then asked God, "Hey, aren't you the inventor >> >of woman?" God said, "Ah, yes." "Well," said Arthur, >> >"professional to professional, you have some major >> >design flaws in your invention. >> > >> >1. There's too much inconsistency in the front-end protrusion. >> > >> >2. It chatters constantly at high speeds. >> > >> >3. Most of the rear ends are too soft and wobble too much. >> > >> >4. The intake is placed way too close to the exhaust. >> > >> >And finally, >> > >> >5. The maintenance costs are outrageous. >> > >> >Hmmmm, you may have some good points there," replied >> >God, "hold on." >> > >> >God went to his Celestial super computer, typed in a >> >few words and waited for the results. The computer >> >printed out a slip of paper and God read it. >> > >> >"Well, it may be true that my invention is flawed," >> >God said to Arthur, "but according to these numbers, >> >more men are riding my invention than yours." _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 20:49:01 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:47:24 -0400 To: Fish Flowers , DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC At 03:42 PM 8/13/03 -0700, Fish Flowers wrote: >Grah. Glad to hear you're, err, mostly okay. Sorry to hear about the bike. Yeah, for sure! Hope you heal up quickly, and with as little fuss as possible. The bike you can fix...especially with the big insurance claim you should be getting to cover your medical bills and the damage to the bike. Just distract yourself thinking about what you want to do to it! (rather than to that idiot driver! :^) >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) For sure...though there are equally bad drivers in MD and VA too. They're just more spread out... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 20:56:55 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Mike Bartman" , "Fish Flowers" , "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Car vs. MC Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:55:43 -0400 Just remember, not all drivers in DC live in DC, they come from MD and VA to go to work. I just wish they would at least pass in DC/MD/VA a hand held law so people would at least watch what they are doing. Speedy recovery to you, my aunt got hit head on (in a cage) months ago and is in recovery now. Scott > >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) > > For sure...though there are equally bad drivers in MD and VA too. They're > just more spread out... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 21:07:08 2003 From: "Dave Yates" To: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:06:25 -0400 X-ELNK-Trace: 956056117932dab21aa676d7e74259b7b3291a7d08dfec791182ffa945519b9f178a6f9f1bc04927350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c > This couldn't happen outside a city????????? Please. > >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) [Dave] M's mishap could've happened anywhere around here, none of us is safe. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 21:15:14 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'DC-Cycles '" Subject: RE: Car vs. MC Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 21:16:52 -0400 And this one happened to come from TX, in his Lincoln. Thank you all for your well wishes, it certainly helps the spirits. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F -----Original Message----- From: S. Russell To: Mike Bartman; Fish Flowers; DC-Cycles Sent: 8/13/03 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Car vs. MC Just remember, not all drivers in DC live in DC, they come from MD and VA to go to work. I just wish they would at least pass in DC/MD/VA a hand held law so people would at least watch what they are doing. Speedy recovery to you, my aunt got hit head on (in a cage) months ago and is in recovery now. Scott > >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) > > For sure...though there are equally bad drivers in MD and VA too. They're > just more spread out... > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 22:44:46 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 19:44:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: Car vs. MC To: Michael Lynch , "'DC-Cycles '" Glad you are ok. This is what lawyers and insurance is for. He needs to be held responsible. With the payment you will earn through pain and suffering (I think this is 3x-5x your total medical bills) you can buy yourself a few new VFRs. Yes, I am agaist frivilous lawsuits. This is not frivilous. Did he go around the guy originally turning left? --- Michael Lynch wrote: > And this one happened to come from TX, in his > Lincoln. > > Thank you all for your well wishes, it certainly > helps the spirits. > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > -----Original Message----- > From: S. Russell > To: Mike Bartman; Fish Flowers; DC-Cycles > Sent: 8/13/03 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: Car vs. MC > > Just remember, not all drivers in DC live in DC, > they come from MD and > VA to > go to work. I just wish they would at least pass in > DC/MD/VA a hand > held > law so people would at least watch what they are > doing. > > Speedy recovery to you, my aunt got hit head on (in > a cage) months ago > and > is in recovery now. > > Scott > > > > >Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight > bajillion.) > > > > For sure...though there are equally bad drivers in > MD and VA too. > They're > > just more spread out... > > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 13 23:54:10 2003 Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 20:54:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: RE: Car vs. MC On Wed, 13 Aug 2003, Michael Lynch wrote: > And this one happened to come from TX, in his Lincoln. Meh; I didn't mean to imply that DC people are necessarily any more stupid than drivers from anywhere else, just that there are _more_ of them. That kind of vehicle density gives me the willies. Call me a paranoid, or a coward if you will. (Or a "fucking idiot", as I've already been called in private email.) If and when you feel up to it, I'd be interested to hear what sort of gear you were wearing and how it stood up to the test. Until then, rest well and best of luck. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:13:51 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:12:56 -0400 From: Tom To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Michael Lynch wrote: >Part 2 > >The Trauma Center: > > > Diagnosis: bruised back and >pelvis. Not bad. > Glad to hear it wasn't too bad. > >The VFR has damage on every body panel, lever, or any other outward >protruding part, including the Givi case. But, to its credit, it still >drives. Guess it's time to rebuild. Seems like Computrack is in order too. > > Sound like more aftermarket goodies are due ;), or maybe a new one... Good luck. Tom 'de 98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:30:58 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:44:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: R1 down, part duex :-) http://download.head-shake.com/movies/DPT.mpg Maybe these guys should go to the track? :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:45:59 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 04:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 To: Michael Lynch , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" --- Michael Lynch wrote: > Part 2 > > The Trauma Center: > > You know the show ER where they show the ambulance scream > up, they wheel the > stretcher in while screaming stats and identification, > race into a prepped > room and like 8 people are already standing there > dressed, waiting? Yeah. > Freaky. They immediately, totally cut every stitch of > clothing off of me. > Embarrasing. After 6 hours in the Trauma unit including > a full torso > ultrasound, CT scan, and batches of x-rays, pokings, > proddings, doses of > drugs, evaluations, etc, I get released. Diagnosis: > bruised back and > pelvis. Not bad. > > Random thoughts: > > On the police report, the other guy admits to being on > the phone AND not > paying attention to what he was doing. It's written > right on there. As it > turns out from the police report, he took a left turn > from the RIGHT LANE! > Unbelievable. hmmmm.... dc.... possible punitives.... yummy d'oh! the plaintiff works for a dc lawfirm. shucks. in all seriousness though, it sounds like it could have been MUCH worse. kinds like my dc "incident," but without the cell phone. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:49:10 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:48:16 -0400 From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://download.head-shake.com/movies/DPT.mpg > >Maybe these guys should go to the track? :-) > > > Is this the same guy?!? Forget the track, stay off the bikes ;). And maybe stay out of the cars too. This guy should stay away from motorized vechicels. Tom 'de VTR 996 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:53:42 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 2 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:53:19 -0400 Mike, Your description of accident left pucker marks in my chair. Scared the hell out of me just reading it. V. glad you came out mostly ok, and I hope VFR makes a quick recovery. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Lynch" From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 07:55:17 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:54:49 -0400 No, not the same guys. This one was a clip from the Video, Super Twins, and yadda yadda. Some "hot shot" riders in Europe riding all around on various V-Twins and such. Rob From: Tom To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:48:16 -0400 Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://download.head-shake.com/movies/DPT.mpg > >Maybe these guys should go to the track? :-) > > > Is this the same guy?!? Forget the track, stay off the bikes ;). And maybe stay out of the cars too. This guy should stay away from motorized vechicels. Tom 'de VTR 996 _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 08:00:31 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:00:10 -0400 c'mon, Fish. I thought everyone got the hint from my tongue-in-cheek "DC sucks" rant from a couple of weeks ago. Enough already. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fish Flowers" To: "DC-Cycles" Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Car vs. MC > Grah. Glad to hear you're, err, mostly okay. Sorry to hear about the bike. > > Reasons not to ride in DC, part eight. (Of eight bajillion.) > > Fish. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 08:15:27 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Rob Keiser wrote: > No, not the same guys. This one was a clip from the Video, Super Twins, and > yadda yadda. > > Some "hot shot" riders in Europe riding all around on various V-Twins and > such. > > Rob It certainly looked staged... the SUV camera on the side of the road gives it away ;-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 08:30:48 2003 Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:29:00 -0500 From: To: , Ouch Mike, Glad to hear you are relatively ok. I have done the computrack think before (race bike). You will need to stip the bike of all the plastic before you take it in. George >>> Michael Lynch 08/13/03 06:39PM >>> This will probably end up long. The Percoset may make it skewed too. The VFR is looking pretty ugly From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 08:59:50 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 05:59:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne, are you trying to scare me out of riding (-: --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Rob Keiser wrote: > > > No, not the same guys. This one was a clip from > the Video, Super Twins, and > > yadda yadda. > > > > Some "hot shot" riders in Europe riding all around > on various V-Twins and > > such. > > > > Rob > > It certainly looked staged... the SUV camera on the > side of the road gives > it away ;-) > > -- Wayne > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:12:04 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 06:11:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX Damn! Good to hear it wasn't worse, and that your spirits seem relatively in good shape. Just wonder how many accidents will be caused by people on cell phones before legislators stop taking $ from lobbyists and start banning the use of phone while driving. jib --- George.Cole@XXXXXX wrote: > Ouch Mike, > > Glad to hear you are relatively ok. I have done the > computrack think > before > (race bike). You will need to stip the bike of all > the plastic before > you take > it in. > > George > > > >>> Michael Lynch 08/13/03 06:39PM >>> > This will probably end up long. The Percoset may > make it skewed too. > The VFR is looking pretty ugly > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:12:08 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 06:11:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) To: Tom , dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's not the same guy, nor is it an R1. That's a clip from the Fast Bikes Magazine video entitled "Dream Twins" and the bike that crashes is a Bimota SB8R. :^( I believe the rider who crashed is one of their staff writers/riders. The guys in the video are actually quite accomplished (based on observances from the other parts of it). I know it doesn't seem like it in this clip. Chris Weaver --- Tom wrote: > Wayne Edelen wrote: > > >http://download.head-shake.com/movies/DPT.mpg > > > >Maybe these guys should go to the track? :-) > > > > > > > Is this the same guy?!? Forget the track, stay off > the bikes ;). And > maybe stay out of the cars too. This guy should stay > away from motorized > vechicels. > > Tom 'de VTR 996 > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:19:40 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:19:11 -0400 I thought it was a What Not To Do series. >From: Mark Kitchell >To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) >Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 05:59:05 -0700 (PDT) > >Wayne, are you trying to scare me out of riding (-: _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:32:24 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:31:56 -0400 I do not enjoy seeing people wreck, but I do like seeing the mistakes people make while riding. It is educational. I always try to leave a margin for the unknown while riding on the street, even when riding a brisk ;) pace. The only time that I've ridden at ten-tenths (or more) was at my single track experience. 3 of us from this list are going back to the CSS for level II in Sept, too. Maybe after this 2nd time, we'll buy some inexpensive track bikes (hey Jim and Denny) :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: rich hall richallmc@XXXXXX I thought it was a What Not To Do series. >From: Mark Kitchell > >Wayne, are you trying to scare me out of riding (-: -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:39:01 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 06:38:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX You will enjoy CSS II. It was more fun than I. --- "wayne@XXXXXX" wrote: > I do not enjoy seeing people wreck, but I do like > seeing the mistakes > people make while riding. It is educational. I > always try to leave a > margin for the unknown while riding on the street, > even when riding a brisk > ;) pace. > > The only time that I've ridden at ten-tenths (or > more) was at my single > track experience. > > 3 of us from this list are going back to the CSS for > level II in Sept, too. > Maybe after this 2nd time, we'll buy some > inexpensive track bikes (hey Jim > and Denny) :-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: rich hall richallmc@XXXXXX > > I thought it was a What Not To Do series. > > >From: Mark Kitchell > > > >Wayne, are you trying to scare me out of riding (-: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:44:01 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Track day schools (was R1 down) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:43:34 -0400 Sweet. We had a blast at level I, since it was the first 2 wheeled track experience for all of us. We're definately looking forward to level II. -- Wayne Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX You will enjoy CSS II. It was more fun than I. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 09:52:42 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:49:26 -0400 To: "DC-Cycles" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC At 08:55 PM 8/13/03 -0400, S. Russell wrote: >Just remember, not all drivers in DC live in DC, they come from MD and VA to >go to work. I just wish they would at least pass in DC/MD/VA a hand held >law so people would at least watch what they are doing. I think that's unnecessary. They just need a serious penalty if you are driving while impaired. Shouldn't matter whether that impairment comes from alcohol, illegal drugs, lack of sleep, a phone conversation or a conversation with a passenger, or just from worrying about personal problems. Impaired is impaired. Personally I do occasionally use the phone while driving. I try to do it at traffic lights or while on long straight stretches of road though, and I always have the driving as the top priority...which sometimes leads to gaps in the conversation or my missing what the other person says if my attention is needed fully for driving, but who cares about that? I also keep the calls short...of the "I'm on the way...should be there in XXX minutes. See you then." sort. Anything that takes more attention than that I either pull off the road, or tell them I'll call back when I get where I'm going. I'm actually *more* aware of my driving while using the phone...since I know how distracting it can be I consciously put more attention into driving. Perhaps what we need is to add cell phone training to driver's ed? Hands-Free phones don't solve the real problem...which is not lack of one hand. -- Mike Bartman P.S. my phone doesn't require any attention to dial...it has voice command for that. Push one button and say, "Call xxxx" and that's it. Answering is also one button...any button. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:17:59 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 09:58:53 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) At 07:44 AM 8/14/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >http://download.head-shake.com/movies/DPT.mpg > >Maybe these guys should go to the track? :-) To get some training? They didn't appear to be going all that fast, and the curve wasn't all that tight, and they got lucky and there wasn't a truck stopped in the road around it...looked like it shouldn't have been a problem to me...am I wrong? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:17:59 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:14:59 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 06:11 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >Just wonder >how many accidents will be caused by people on cell >phones before legislators stop taking $ from lobbyists >and start banning the use of phone while driving. jib How would such a law be enforced? It can't be by just having cops looking around for people with phones to their ears...hands-free phones and phones with headsets will be impossible to detect when in use and are equally distracting, and if you pull over all lone drivers who are moving their mouths, you will get lots of "car singers". If you use radio detection gear to try to pick up the signals you will pull over lots of people who just forgot to turn their phones off when they got in the car, as well as those who aren't answering them, just letting them take messages for later. About the only way I can think of is to use intercept gear that picks up the individual phone conversation...and that requires a warrant. If you can't enforce it, you shouldn't enact it. If you want to pass a law that says the penalties are multiplied if an accident happens as a result of use of a phone, ok...that should be a *little* easier to enforce at least. We should probably eliminate radios and CD players from cars too...people listening to their favorite music or upsetting news announcements probably cause some accidents too. And we should make it illegal to chat with a driver while the car is in motion...conversations are very distracting for some people, and the real idiots even turn to look at their passengers when they speak to them. Children should obviously be banned, or be secured in restraints and muzzled while in cars...the old "don't make me come back there!" situation is VERY distracting to a driver. Pretty girls and cute guys should be required to wear gunny sacks in public, so that they don't distract passing drivers from proper attention to their duties as well, and advertising should be banned anywhere within sight of a roadway. Oh, and smoking in cars should be banned. Besides the distraction of lighting up, and the danger of throwing burning object from cars (I've helped put out a couple of small brush fires started by such morons), there's also the accident/distraction risk of having a burning ash fall into your lap...I've seen that happen more than once myself, and I've heard of it causing accidents. Eating while driving should also be banned, especially if it involves a drink that you have to tip up to get the last of. We might also want to consider putting road name signs somewhere other than one corner of the actual intersection, and large enough to be read from a car before it actually gets there, so that drivers don't have to spend so much time wondering if this is their turn or not, and hunting for the things. There are lots of things we could do to make the roads safer. Only allowing commercial drivers on them might be another option that I'm sure would be supported by some group or other. Where does it end? This "ban phones" thing reminds me a whole lot of the mandatory helmet law thing in a lot of ways, though it's obviously different in others. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:34:47 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:34:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: Mike Bartman , Isaac Blanck , George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX Mike, are you one of the people who believe that if a law does not solve the entire problem, its not worth enacting? Banning cell phones would help solve the problem of distracted drivers who use cell phones, but not distracted drivers with kids, makeup, etc. The law itself would act as a deterrent, even if it was hard to enforce. It would raise awareness over time that using a cell phone was verboten while driving. Plus, it is enforcable. Talking on a cell phone, hands-free or not, is illegal in France (and other Euro countries). The fines are huge and if you are in an accident while using a cell phone its very serious. Therefore, there HAS been a change in attitudes over time about using a phone while driving. We miss most drunk drivers out there, does that mean it should be legal? --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:11 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: > >Just wonder > >how many accidents will be caused by people on cell > >phones before legislators stop taking $ from > lobbyists > >and start banning the use of phone while driving. > jib > > How would such a law be enforced? > > It can't be by just having cops looking around for > people with phones to > their ears...hands-free phones and phones with > headsets will be impossible > to detect when in use and are equally distracting, > and if you pull over all > lone drivers who are moving their mouths, you will > get lots of "car singers". > > If you use radio detection gear to try to pick up > the signals you will pull > over lots of people who just forgot to turn their > phones off when they got > in the car, as well as those who aren't answering > them, just letting them > take messages for later. > > About the only way I can think of is to use > intercept gear that picks up > the individual phone conversation...and that > requires a warrant. > > If you can't enforce it, you shouldn't enact it. > > If you want to pass a law that says the penalties > are multiplied if an > accident happens as a result of use of a phone, > ok...that should be a > *little* easier to enforce at least. > > We should probably eliminate radios and CD players > from cars too...people > listening to their favorite music or upsetting news > announcements probably > cause some accidents too. And we should make it > illegal to chat with a > driver while the car is in motion...conversations > are very distracting for > some people, and the real idiots even turn to look > at their passengers when > they speak to them. Children should obviously be > banned, or be secured in > restraints and muzzled while in cars...the old > "don't make me come back > there!" situation is VERY distracting to a driver. > Pretty girls and cute > guys should be required to wear gunny sacks in > public, so that they don't > distract passing drivers from proper attention to > their duties as well, and > advertising should be banned anywhere within sight > of a roadway. Oh, and > smoking in cars should be banned. Besides the > distraction of lighting up, > and the danger of throwing burning object from cars > (I've helped put out a > couple of small brush fires started by such morons), > there's also the > accident/distraction risk of having a burning ash > fall into your lap...I've > seen that happen more than once myself, and I've > heard of it causing > accidents. Eating while driving should also be > banned, especially if it > involves a drink that you have to tip up to get the > last of. > > We might also want to consider putting road name > signs somewhere other than > one corner of the actual intersection, and large > enough to be read from a > car before it actually gets there, so that drivers > don't have to spend so > much time wondering if this is their turn or not, > and hunting for the things. > > There are lots of things we could do to make the > roads safer. Only > allowing commercial drivers on them might be another > option that I'm sure > would be supported by some group or other. > > Where does it end? This "ban phones" thing reminds > me a whole lot of the > mandatory helmet law thing in a lot of ways, though > it's obviously > different in others. > > -- Mike Bartman > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:37:02 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:36:30 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Glad to hear _you_ are OK, as for the bike, well crash all you want we will make more comes to mind. Can I add about $.04 worth? As for driving in the district, scary dense traffic yes, BUT at slower speeds. Tends to even the danger out. And second What could you have done to avoid the accident? This is not intended to question you or your skill as a rider, _please_ do not take it as an insult, I ask myself the same question for every close call. The question is important for all of us if we want to avoid future accidents. NOTE: with possible future legal action DO NOT answer (publish for all to see) this question online, just for yourself in your own head for future safety. Nor can any of us answer for you, we were not there. Heal soon, ride sooner. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:51:37 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:51:30 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , Isaac Blanck , George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 07:34 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >Mike, are you one of the people who believe that if a >law does not solve the entire problem, its not worth >enacting? Nope, I'm one of the people who think that you shouldn't pass laws you can't enforce. It makes the law look stupid, and when people lose respect for the laws, they tend to ignore more of them. That's a net loss. >Banning cell phones would help solve the problem of >distracted drivers who use cell phones, but not >distracted drivers with kids, makeup, etc. Very true. I was just pointing out that a) banning phones won't eliminate distracted drivers, and b) ban one distraction and more bans of other things will come as accidents continue to happen and people shift to a new scapegoat. The real cure is better driver education, and elimination of poor drivers as they identify themselves through accidents and other stupid behaviors by revoking licenses...and locking up those who drive without a license, for long periods of time. >Plus, it is enforcable. Talking on a cell phone, >hands-free or not, is illegal in France (and other >Euro countries). The fines are huge and if you are in >an accident while using a cell phone its very serious. > Therefore, there HAS been a change in attitudes over >time about using a phone while driving. How do they enforce it? If there's a way to do that that doesn't violate the Constitution, I'm willing to alter my position on that part of my objections. Yes, some people will comply voluntarily, but those tend to be the same people who use phones responsibly in the first place...they aren't the problem. The real idiots will ignore the law, despite penalties, as they are stupid enough to believe that it won't happen to them. The idea is to prevent the accident, not explain it afterwards, right? That requires enforcement without voluntary compliance, and I don't see a way to do that realistically. >We miss most drunk drivers out there, does that mean >it should be legal? Nope, but with them there are ways to enforce the law. The seriously impaired ones tend to be easily detectable...I've done that myself once or twice. They weave all over the place, get confused at intersections, etc.. Since I couldn't pull them over for a test I don't *know* that they were drunk, but they were certainly impaired by *something*. After an accident they should test everyone involved for blood alcohol level...another easy detection method. After an accident it would be possible to "test" for cell phone use by consulting the cell company records and comparing to the time of the accident, at least in the case where there were no passengers in the car who might have been on the phone, but that won't let you find people who are just talking on the phone while driving who don't have an accident, so it doesn't solve the problem of enforcing a ban on phone use while driving. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:57:09 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:56:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: Mike Bartman Cc: DC Cycles I believe the fine is something like 1000 euros. This is a pretty strong deterent. Also, I do not think you can appeal the fine or go to court. They see you on a phone, bam $1200 fine. Ouch --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:34 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: > >Mike, are you one of the people who believe that if > a > >law does not solve the entire problem, its not > worth > >enacting? > > Nope, I'm one of the people who think that you > shouldn't pass laws you > can't enforce. It makes the law look stupid, and > when people lose respect > for the laws, they tend to ignore more of them. > That's a net loss. > > >Banning cell phones would help solve the problem of > >distracted drivers who use cell phones, but not > >distracted drivers with kids, makeup, etc. > > Very true. I was just pointing out that a) banning > phones won't eliminate > distracted drivers, and b) ban one distraction and > more bans of other > things will come as accidents continue to happen and > people shift to a new > scapegoat. > > The real cure is better driver education, and > elimination of poor drivers > as they identify themselves through accidents and > other stupid behaviors by > revoking licenses...and locking up those who drive > without a license, for > long periods of time. > > >Plus, it is enforcable. Talking on a cell phone, > >hands-free or not, is illegal in France (and other > >Euro countries). The fines are huge and if you are > in > >an accident while using a cell phone its very > serious. > > Therefore, there HAS been a change in attitudes > over > >time about using a phone while driving. > > How do they enforce it? If there's a way to do that > that doesn't violate > the Constitution, I'm willing to alter my position > on that part of my > objections. > > Yes, some people will comply voluntarily, but those > tend to be the same > people who use phones responsibly in the first > place...they aren't the > problem. The real idiots will ignore the law, > despite penalties, as they > are stupid enough to believe that it won't happen to > them. The idea is to > prevent the accident, not explain it afterwards, > right? That requires > enforcement without voluntary compliance, and I > don't see a way to do that > realistically. > > >We miss most drunk drivers out there, does that > mean > >it should be legal? > > Nope, but with them there are ways to enforce the > law. The seriously > impaired ones tend to be easily detectable...I've > done that myself once or > twice. They weave all over the place, get confused > at intersections, etc.. > Since I couldn't pull them over for a test I don't > *know* that they were > drunk, but they were certainly impaired by > *something*. After an accident > they should test everyone involved for blood alcohol > level...another easy > detection method. > > After an accident it would be possible to "test" for > cell phone use by > consulting the cell company records and comparing to > the time of the > accident, at least in the case where there were no > passengers in the car > who might have been on the phone, but that won't let > you find people who > are just talking on the phone while driving who > don't have an accident, so > it doesn't solve the problem of enforcing a ban on > phone use while driving. > > -- Mike Bartman > > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:58:34 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:57:58 -0400 That's what alarmed me the most about this incident...he had the green, car tried to turn left in front of him, he took appropriate action, and *another* car went around the left-turner to smack him. It's a freakin' game of dodge ball out there, but the balls are sentient, large and deadly. I think he did everything right. Except not loud enough pipes, chain driven instead of shaft, and probably synthetic oil. But other than that? --jon ----- > And second What could you have done to avoid the accident? From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 10:58:46 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Cc: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . .. Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:56:57 -0400 Fine that you are walking. Those bloody cellphones -- so to speak. Hope all back in place quickly. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Occasionally sport "Drive Now, Talk Later" stickers (from AMA). Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From: Michael Lynch The accident: Ironically, there were fire trucks responding to the Fire Service building in DC on the corner of 14th and Independence. snip. . .. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:04:34 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:04:11 -0400 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) At 10:57 AM 8/14/03 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: >game of dodge ball out there, but the balls are sentient, large and deadly. Not sentient enough, apparently. Got any chlorine we could add to the gene pool? >I think he did everything right. Sure sounded like it to me. >Except not loud enough pipes, chain driven instead of shaft, and probably >synthetic oil. But other than that? I think he was lacking reactive armor too... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:04:39 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:04:03 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/14/2003 11:01:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > I think he did everything right. Sometimes that is the answer. The question needs to be asked though. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:05:32 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:01:59 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Cc: DC Cycles We can't do that here...the Constitution wouldn't allow it. The "Due process" bit. The $1200 fine we could do, but again, how do you enforce it? -- Mike Bartman At 07:56 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >I believe the fine is something like 1000 euros. This >is a pretty strong deterent. Also, I do not think you >can appeal the fine or go to court. They see you on a >phone, bam $1200 fine. Ouch > > >--- Mike Bartman wrote: >> At 07:34 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >> >Mike, are you one of the people who believe that if >> a >> >law does not solve the entire problem, its not >> worth >> >enacting? >> >> Nope, I'm one of the people who think that you >> shouldn't pass laws you >> can't enforce. It makes the law look stupid, and >> when people lose respect >> for the laws, they tend to ignore more of them. >> That's a net loss. >> >> >Banning cell phones would help solve the problem of >> >distracted drivers who use cell phones, but not >> >distracted drivers with kids, makeup, etc. >> >> Very true. I was just pointing out that a) banning >> phones won't eliminate >> distracted drivers, and b) ban one distraction and >> more bans of other >> things will come as accidents continue to happen and >> people shift to a new >> scapegoat. >> >> The real cure is better driver education, and >> elimination of poor drivers >> as they identify themselves through accidents and >> other stupid behaviors by >> revoking licenses...and locking up those who drive >> without a license, for >> long periods of time. >> >> >Plus, it is enforcable. Talking on a cell phone, >> >hands-free or not, is illegal in France (and other >> >Euro countries). The fines are huge and if you are >> in >> >an accident while using a cell phone its very >> serious. >> > Therefore, there HAS been a change in attitudes >> over >> >time about using a phone while driving. >> >> How do they enforce it? If there's a way to do that >> that doesn't violate >> the Constitution, I'm willing to alter my position >> on that part of my >> objections. >> >> Yes, some people will comply voluntarily, but those >> tend to be the same >> people who use phones responsibly in the first >> place...they aren't the >> problem. The real idiots will ignore the law, >> despite penalties, as they >> are stupid enough to believe that it won't happen to >> them. The idea is to >> prevent the accident, not explain it afterwards, >> right? That requires >> enforcement without voluntary compliance, and I >> don't see a way to do that >> realistically. >> >> >We miss most drunk drivers out there, does that >> mean >> >it should be legal? >> >> Nope, but with them there are ways to enforce the >> law. The seriously >> impaired ones tend to be easily detectable...I've >> done that myself once or >> twice. They weave all over the place, get confused >> at intersections, etc.. >> Since I couldn't pull them over for a test I don't >> *know* that they were >> drunk, but they were certainly impaired by >> *something*. After an accident >> they should test everyone involved for blood alcohol >> level...another easy >> detection method. >> >> After an accident it would be possible to "test" for >> cell phone use by >> consulting the cell company records and comparing to >> the time of the >> accident, at least in the case where there were no >> passengers in the car >> who might have been on the phone, but that won't let >> you find people who >> are just talking on the phone while driving who >> don't have an accident, so >> it doesn't solve the problem of enforcing a ban on >> phone use while driving. >> >> -- Mike Bartman >> >> >> >**************************************************************************** >> * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered >> Obfuscation Obliterated * >> * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled >> Opinions Offered * >> * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined >> Smiles Stimulated * >> >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >> * "We do it all! No job too small! No >> price too high! * >> >**************************************************************************** >> > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:29:47 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Bike Magazines from the east Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:29:00 -0400 I recently started subscribing several bike magazines from Japan and starting to get rid of some before it starts to piling up... All the writings are in Japanese but it has bunch of cool pics of customized bikes. If anybody's interested I can bring it at bike night (when's the next one?). --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:44:16 2003 From: "Paul Wilson" To: Cc: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:41:26 -0400 ----- Original Message ----- From: > In a message dated 8/14/2003 11:01:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > > > I think he did everything right. > > Sometimes that is the answer. > The question needs to be asked though. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > A lot of speculation here, so take it FWIW. And not saying it's Mike's "fault" in any way, or trying to Monday morning quarterback his actions. One thing I thought about - if I'm interpreting it correctly - Mike was pretty much alone traveling north on 14th, in front of a bunch of cars, since he had filtered to the front and then gone ahead on the cop's signal, using a bike's natural ability to accelerate. Not on the throttle hard, mind you, just slightly ahead of the pack. In fact he said he was slowing and using the horn, but I imagine the nearest cage was still a bit behind him. 14th St. is three lanes wide at this location, in each direction, with a southbound left turn lane coming up at Independence Ave. So, on the average southbound cager's retina, the image would be of two empty lanes and a third occupied by a little speck and a spot of light. BTW, his lane position - middle lane - is exactly what I would have chosen in the same situation. Put a lot of space between yourself and the doofuses that might turn left into your path. It gives you the added advantage of a right lane to swerve to. Getting back to the following cages. Sometimes strength in numbers is a good thing. Use the cages in the other lanes to block for you. I bet dollars to doughnuts Mr. Cell-Phoning Numb Nuts, if he looked at all or indeed could even see the northbound lanes due to all the stopped traffic, glanced into the northbound lanes, saw two empty lanes, no cages and went for it. I look out for instances where I feel exposed, and sometimes will intentionally slow down to allow the cages to come up abreast of me, if I see a troublesome intersection coming up. We often thump on putting maximum distance between ourselves and other road users, but sometimes perhaps it's better to have those critters a little closer. Unfortunately Mike also got caught up in what I can the "point and shoot" driving style that is all too common in these parts. It sounds like traffic was horribly backed up and patience was running at a low ebb in the southbound lanes. Not one, but two, impatient drivers saw their opportunity to bail out of the mess by making an impromptu left-hand turn onto Jefferson Drive. In their distraction and impatience they forgot about the drivers with the right-of-way and a green light coming north on 14th. It's a bummer what happened to Mike, but we can turn it into something of a positive by thinking about "what could happen" when we're out there. You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you. Back to lurking, Paul in DC 95 VFR750 - 86 VF500F - www.wilsonline.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:54:23 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Mark Kitchell '" , "''DC-Cycles ' '" Subject: RE: Car vs. MC Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:55:47 -0400 Yeah, it turns out he took a left turn from the right lane, going around someone in the middle lane and the original left turner. Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F From: Mark Kitchell Did he go around the guy originally turning left? --- Michael Lynch wrote: > And this one happened to come from TX, in his > Lincoln. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:56:47 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:56:22 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, mike@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Those friendly kids at BMW... http://www.wiscbmwclub.com/ -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:58:41 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 08:58:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: Car vs. MC To: Michael Lynch , "''DC-Cycles ' '" He is so screwed! Did he get multiple tickets? I hope so --- Michael Lynch wrote: > Yeah, it turns out he took a left turn from the > right lane, going around > someone in the middle lane and the original left > turner. > > Mike > 96 VFR > 88 Hawk > 76 CB400F > > > From: Mark Kitchell > > Did he go around the guy originally turning left? > > > --- Michael Lynch wrote: > > And this one happened to come from TX, in his > > Lincoln. > > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 11:59:51 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 11:59:16 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>how many accidents will be caused by people on cell >>phones before legislators stop taking $ from lobbyists >>and start banning the use of phone while driving. jib > >How would such a law be enforced? [Dave] The lack of vehicle control exhibited by some drivers in this entranced state is pretty easy to notice even for a novice. I'm guessing that the patrol divisions would look for a lock of control, abrupt corrections, weaving, sudden stops, uneven pace not meeting with the flow of traffic and many more. Upon noticing this, they would probably also look for the 'crooked neck' & 1 hand or no hand steering. At that point, I'd say that they have good reason to initiate a traffic stop and write a ticket. Making a turn, or merging off an exit with cell planted to ear ? that should be an automatic ticket, no other "lack of control" factors needed, because the turner / merger would have limited ability to swerve to avoid, and if this were an urban setting, could easily mow down some peds... ...hands-free phones and phones with headsets will be >impossible to detect [Dave] Well, you may not be able to ticket them, but maybe we could equip cruisers with 150 db horns to drown out any conversations taking place ;-) >Where does it end? This "ban phones" thing reminds me a >whole lot of the mandatory helmet law thing in a lot of >ways, though it's obviously different in others. [Dave] It's not _just_ cell phones, but admittedly, they're an easy mark. What's more important - 1: Get home safely or 2: Drive while talking about days events to friend/S.O./co-worker/wrong number ? Is the conversation that much more important than everyone's safety in proximity to you? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 12:08:27 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:08:41 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return Michael, sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you are doing better. I also have been commuting to D.C. lately, just so I can ride my bike. I got hit last week, but luckily I did not go down. She basically moved me over in my lane, and hit my rear tire and pushed me over to where she had to back off the tire for me to stand the bike up and put the kick stand down. Of course, the lady said she did not see me, she was watching the car "behind" me. Two days after that, . . . a guy looking right at me, wanted to be in my lane as well. I laid on the horn, but to no avail. When I stopped in front of him and got off the bike, he would not put his window down. He said he did not see me. Funny he looked at me and his wife moved away from me in the car, expecting to hit me. Today, a lady that I work with turned from two lanes over to be in my lane, and turn into our garage. I blew the horn, crossed over the double yellow to avoid being hit (on coming cars were stopped at the traffic light ahead). Of course, she never bothered to even send an e-mail to apologize. I know, I guess she did not see me either. ARAI: On another note, a couple weeks ago I went to the Manassas Courthouse to observe. When entering the building, I had to place my helmet on the belt to be scanned. To make a long story short, they let my helmet fall off the belt and bounce around. Obvious damage was the two rear vents and one of the front vents (Quantum/f). I called Arai, there were going to be closed for all of last week for vacation. I sent my helmet to be evaluated for damages on Thursday. They have the paperwork stamped they received it on Saturday. I just got it back today. So for them being closed for a week, and then me getting my helmet back today. I thought that was a pretty good turnaround time. They found no damage, except the vents. I guess the vents took the full impact of the fall. They replaced all the vents at NO CHARGE! Judy (happy again with my helmet, but riding scared in D.C.) From: Michael Lynch The accident: Ironically, there were fire trucks responding to the Fire Service building in DC on the corner of 14th and Independence. snip. . .. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 12:09:12 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:08:48 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC (driving in DC) To: >A lot of speculation here, so take it FWIW. And not saying >it's Mike's "fault" in any way, or trying to Monday morning >quarterback his actions. [Dave] Thought you unsubbed... ?? ;-) >So, on the average southbound cager's retina, the image >would be of two empty lanes and a third occupied by a little >speck and a spot of light. ... [Dave] If you're not going to pay attention while driving, you should (collective you) at LEAST not get impatient while you're not paying attention and driving. >Getting back to the following cages. Sometimes strength in >numbers is a good thing. Use the cages in the other lanes >to block for you. I bet dollars to doughnuts Mr. Cell- >Phoning Numb Nuts, if he looked at all or indeed could even >see the northbound lanes due to all the stopped traffic, >glanced into the northbound lanes, saw two empty lanes, no >cages and went for it. [Dave] No way I'd take that bet, you're probably right. It's easy for us to say use the cages as blockers, but they can get pretty bothersome when traffic gets bunched up like that. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 12:42:09 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Isaac Blanck , George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:41:38 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > > At 06:11 AM 8/14/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: > >Just wonder > >how many accidents will be caused by people on cell > >phones before legislators stop taking $ from lobbyists > >and start banning the use of phone while driving. jib > > How would such a law be enforced? > snip You make some very good points (and maybe some not so good ones). What we really need to do is treat a drivers license as we treat other kinds of licenses. If you're a licensed engineer, for example, you're assumed to possess a certain body of knowledge and are liable for the actions and decisions you make as a professional. If we simply applied the same standards to drivers, we'd go a long way toward weeding out bad ones, and encouraging people to pay attention. We just need to hold drivers accountable for their actions. Can you imagine a licensed pilot telling using "I didn't see the other plane on the runway" as an excuse? Or a train engineer saying "I didn't notice the red signal." But car drivers use these excuses all the time and get away with it. Failure to see another legally operating motor vehicle, or a properly working traffic signal, should be grounds for immediate license suspension. Prima Facie evidence of incompetence. Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 13:36:13 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: CC: Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:36:02 -0400 > From: "Judy La Follette" > I also have been commuting to D.C. lately, just so I can ride my bike. I got hit last week, but luckily I did not go down. > snip > Two days after that, . . . snip > Today, a lady that I work with turned from two lanes over I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Headlight Modulator!!! I commute to DC most days, and my older bike has had a modulator as long as I've owned it. With the modulator running, getting cut off, pulled over on, etc. is a rare occurance. When I got my 919 this spring, before I put a mod. on it, I rode in a few time and thought the world had gone nuts. If you don't have a modulator, at least ride with the high beam on. But I wouldn't dream of coming into town anymore without my modulator running. It just flat out works Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 13:40:02 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:39:54 -0400 Well I think that people in general have a difficult time of maintaining lane discipline. I drove to Reston for lunch today and no less than 10 people infringed on my lane while driving down the toll road. One guy pulled out of the tolls with his left turnsignal on and proceeded across 4 lanes of traffic... TO THE RIGHT. When he made his final choice to exit the toll road and get on 495N, he straddled the lanes until the exit forced him to move all the way to the right, again with his left turnsignal just shining away. He was not holding a cell phone. -- Wayne - http://www.purplecar.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Dave Yates Dave@XXXXXX [Dave] The lack of vehicle control exhibited by some drivers in this entranced state is pretty easy to notice even for a novice. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 13:49:45 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:48:41 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 11:59 AM 8/14/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >>>how many accidents will be caused by people on cell >>>phones before legislators stop taking $ from lobbyists >>>and start banning the use of phone while driving. jib >> >>How would such a law be enforced? > >[Dave] The lack of vehicle control exhibited by some drivers >in this entranced state is pretty easy to notice even for a >novice. I'm guessing that the patrol divisions would look >for a lock of control, abrupt corrections, weaving, sudden >stops, uneven pace not meeting with the flow of traffic and >many more. Upon noticing this, they would probably also look >for the 'crooked neck' & 1 hand or no hand steering. At that >point, I'd say that they have good reason to initiate a >traffic stop and write a ticket. Making a turn, or merging >off an exit with cell planted to ear ? that should be an >automatic ticket, no other "lack of control" factors needed, >because the turner / merger would have limited ability to >swerve to avoid, and if this were an urban setting, could >easily mow down some peds... All fine for the phones you hold to your ear...what about the phones built into the car, and the ones hooked to headsets? No one-handed driving, no visible phone, but every bit as much distraction for those susceptible to it. As far as pulling drivers that weave, run across the center divider, etc., yes, by all means! They are obviously impaired by something, and I don't really care what it is...they shouldn't be on the road. I don't want a law saying you can't use a cell phone, I want one that says you can't be on the road if you can't drive! But don't we already have those? BTW, if you ban cell phone use you also ban the beneficial use too. Things like reporting drunk drivers, breakdowns, accidents, etc. will be limited if people have to get off the road to do it. Some will take the extra trouble, but many won't. "You can't do just one thing" is a general rule with any legislation. There are always side-effects, and those should be considered and weighed before making any law. >...hands-free phones and phones with headsets will be >>impossible to detect > >[Dave] Well, you may not be able to ticket them, but maybe >we could equip cruisers with 150 db horns to drown out any >conversations taking place ;-) Is *THAT* what the loud pipes are really for?? :^) >>Where does it end? This "ban phones" thing reminds me a >>whole lot of the mandatory helmet law thing in a lot of >>ways, though it's obviously different in others. > >[Dave] It's not _just_ cell phones, but admittedly, they're >an easy mark. What's more important - 1: Get home safely >or 2: Drive while talking about days events to >friend/S.O./co-worker/wrong number ? Obviously #1. It isn't always an either/or choice though. Some people can multitask better than others, and some people can't drive even in total silence. There are also variations in situation. Driving around D.C. is no time to be chatting on the phone, or even with passengers...you need to pay attention all the time. Driving across Ohio on an interstate is a whole different thing...chatting may help keep you from dozing off from sheer boredom induced by 200 miles of straight ahead concrete. I figure that's why they added the work zones...to break up the monotony. >Is the conversation that much more important than everyone's >safety in proximity to you? Obviously not, but if I'm on the phone, it's only because doing so isn't endangering anyone. I pay even more attention to my driving while doing that, as I said, even if that annoys the person I'm talking to sometimes, and if things get the slightest bit questionable, I hang up or just drop the phone onto the passenger seat. It's a priority thing. Obviously not everyone is like me though...some may multitask better, and some worse. I still say that impairment and lack of education are the problems, not phones per se. I've seen people driving stupidly since long before cell phones were invented...often because they were talking with passengers...or just stupid by birth. Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow radios or intercoms, we would have everyone paying better attention to their driving? Worth a shot...though the trucking industry is going to need some damn big bikes! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 13:50:03 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:48:51 -0400 Maybe it was in his lap in vibrate-mode... ;^) >From: "wayne@XXXXXX" [snip] >He was not holding a cell phone. _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 13:57:22 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:56:46 -0400 From: Skip To: Perry Coleman CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Call me again, Dammit! Perry Coleman wrote: > > Maybe it was in his lap in vibrate-mode... ;^) > > >From: "wayne@XXXXXX" > [snip] > >He was not holding a cell phone. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:01:07 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:00:46 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne E observed: >Well I think that people in general have a difficult time of >maintaining lane discipline. > >I drove to Reston for lunch today and no less than 10 people >infringed on my lane while driving down the toll road. One >guy pulled out of the tolls with his left turnsignal on and >proceeded across 4 lanes of traffic... TO THE RIGHT. [Dave] ... Lanes. BAH! Those toll booths around rush hour... The best phrase to describe it I can think of is the line the announcer uses at the (horse) race track - "And THEY'RE OFF"... >When he made his final choice to exit the toll road and get >on 495N, he straddled the lanes until the exit forced him to >move all the way to the right, again with his left >turnsignal just shining away. [Dave] Must've been from Maryland ;-) I know when I emigrated to VA, they made me take a turn signal use test at DMV. When I passed, they reported me to the police for submitting false documents. I guess they'd never encountered someone from Maryland that actually knew about turn signals ;-) > >He was not holding a cell phone. [Dave] Thank God for small favors. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:08:38 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:52:58 -0400 To: "Judy La Follette" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return Cc: At 12:08 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Judy La Follette wrote: >Michael, sorry to hear about your accident. I hope you are doing better. > >Of course, the lady said she did not see me, she was watching the car "behind" me. > >He said he did not see me. Funny he looked at me and his wife moved away from me in the car, expecting to hit me. > >I know, I guess she did not see me either. Anybody know if it's legal to put flashing lights on a bike, so long as they are yellow, not red or blue? Might be worth a shot, and would certainly make any idiot that tried the "I didn't see him" line look like a total fool in court. -- Mike "Attention K-Mart drivers!" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:08:38 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:06:36 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 12:41 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >> From: Mike Bartman >> How would such a law be enforced? >You make some very good points (and maybe some not so good ones). Then I'm batting about average! :^) >We just need to hold drivers accountable for their actions. Supposedly we do. The laws are on the books for it. "Didn't see the..." isn't an excuse...it's just an explanation. The driver is still guilty of running the red light, or causing an "accident". The penalties are in the laws for all of these things and more. We just need to enforce them better. Unfortunately, some judges are far too lenient on repeat offenders, so they keep their licenses and keep screwing up. Or they lose their licenses, drive anyway, and aren't put in jail to keep them off the roads. Given the way our country is designed, you pretty much have to drive to live almost everywhere, so the judges aren't really to blame completely...they are trying to balance the road safety needs with the need to let people eat, work and have a place to live. If we zoned differently it might be otherwise, but we haven't for the last half century or so, so most living areas are nowhere near working areas. Take away a license and you most likely cost a person their job, their home and the country a more or less productive worker who will then end up on welfare. It's a problem, and I don't think there's a good solution that will work in all cases. >Can you imagine a licensed pilot telling using "I didn't see the other plane on the runway" as an excuse? Happens all the time...especially in mid-air collisions. It isn't an excuse though, just an explanation. It is really easy not to see a plane in the air BTW...they are small and the sky is big, and you have to spot them miles away given the speeds involved. We really need to use some technology to solve the problem... > Or a train engineer saying "I didn't notice the red signal." That one's happened too...though again, not an excuse, just an explanation. They often lose the right to run trains again, or at the very least, have to pass a vision test and get re-trained (no pun intended! :^) >But car drivers use these excuses all the time and get away with it. That's a problem if true. Is it really true though? At least in cases where the police get involved? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:08:44 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:08:18 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: At 01:36 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >If you don't have a modulator, at least ride with the high beam on. But I wouldn't dream of coming into town anymore without my modulator running. It just flat out works Never heard of these...can you describe? Does it just make the headlight brightness change? How fast and how much? Anything that increases visibility is a good thing. Human senses are limited in lots of ways. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:13:20 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:13:13 -0400 My turnsignal experience in MD (and most other places in the US): - apply turnsignal 3/4 of the way through a lane change - apply turnsignal once the lane change is complete - what's a turnsignal? -- Wayne 'yes, I do have a rollcage in my car' Original Message: ----------------- From: Dave Yates Dave@XXXXXX [Dave] Must've been from Maryland ;-) I know when I emigrated to VA, they made me take a turn signal use test at DMV. When I passed, they reported me to the police for submitting false documents. I guess they'd never encountered someone from Maryland that actually knew about turn signals ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:19:00 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:18:49 -0400 I have a bright white truck that is probably 17ft long. I tow a trailer than is more than 18ft long with that truck. I have people pull out in front of me all the time. It doesn't matter what you're driving. You could be driving down the road on fire and people wouldn't notice. :-) -- Wayne Original Message: ----------------- From: Mike Bartman omni@XXXXXX Anybody know if it's legal to put flashing lights on a bike, so long as they are yellow, not red or blue? Might be worth a shot, and would certainly make any idiot that tried the "I didn't see him" line look like a total fool in court. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:28:06 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , CC: Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:26:51 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > Date: 2003/08/14 Thu PM 02:08:18 EDT > To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, > CC: > Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators > > At 01:36 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >If you don't have a modulator, at least ride with the high beam on. But I > wouldn't dream of coming into town anymore without my modulator running. > It just flat out works > > Never heard of these...can you describe? Does it just make the headlight > brightness change? How fast and how much? > > Anything that increases visibility is a good thing. Human senses are > limited in lots of ways. Headlight modulators vary the brightness of the headlight (generally the high beam) at a rate of approximately 4 cycles per second. The first modulator was developed by a neurologist who noticed that certain frequencies of modulated light actually created a physiological reaction in human brains: when the eye sees a light at that frequency, the brain can't help but notice it. As I recall, a rate of about 6 cycles per second is even more effective, but generates epileptic seizures in susceptible people. Federal regulation explicitly makes them legal in all 50 states, btw, and requires a rate of 4 cps. The brand I put in my 919 is from comagination, and is quite a bit cheaper than the other ones I've used / seen. It's compact, easy to install, and works. For more info on modulators in general, and this unit in particular, see: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motorcycle-products/comagination/visipath/visipath.htm There's a video clip showing what one looks like here: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motorcycle-products/comagination/visipath/light.AVI but I find them more visible in real life than the video clip indicates. I've had one in every bike I've owned, with one exception, since about 1980. My experience is that riding with low beam only, people pull out in front of me several times a day. With high beam, that drops to maybe once every day or two. With modulator, it's more like once every few weeks. I regularly notice people start to pull out and then jerk to a stop when they look in my direction. Note, however, that nothing is 100% effective. I still ride like everyone is an idiot and will cut me off without provocation. I'm just not proved right nearly as often. HTH, Bob HTH, Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:31:21 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:31:14 -0400 > From: Mike Bartman > > Anybody know if it's legal to put flashing lights on a bike, so long as > they are yellow, not red or blue? Might be worth a shot, and would > certainly make any idiot that tried the "I didn't see him" line look like a > total fool in court. > > -- Mike " I checked into this quite a few years ago in a couple of different contexts: First, on the legality of a flashing (or rotating) yellow light on a car or truck roof. Think towtruck. The MD state police told me I could use one anytime I was towing another vehicle or parked on the shoulder of the road, but not otherwise. Sometime later, I checked into the legality of using the flashing LED lights that are popular with bicylclists. The answer this time was a little uncertain, but the feeling of the office (again, MD state) was that it was legal if mounted ON THE RIDER, and not on the vehicle. Problem with these things is they are not really visible in daylight, which is probably when we need them most. HTH, Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:31:26 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:30:08 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MB asked: >>>How would such a law be enforced? >> To which I pontificated: >[Dave] The lack of vehicle control exhibited by some drivers >in this entranced state is pretty easy to notice even for a >novice. I'm guessing that the patrol divisions would look >for a lock of control, abrupt corrections, weaving, sudden >stops, uneven pace not meeting with the flow of traffic and >many more. Upon noticing this, they would probably also look >for the 'crooked neck' & 1 hand or no hand steering. At that >point, I'd say that they have good reason to initiate a >traffic stop and write a ticket. Making a turn, or merging >off an exit with cell planted to ear ? that should be an >automatic ticket, no other "lack of control" factors needed, >>because the turner / merger would have limited ability to >>swerve to avoid, and if this were an urban setting, could >>easily mow down some peds... > Mike retorted: >All fine for the phones you hold to your ear...what about >the phones built into the car, and the ones hooked to >headsets? No one->handed driving, no visible phone, but >every bit as much distraction for those susceptible to it. [Dave] I agree. > >As far as pulling drivers that weave, run across the center >divider, etc., yes, by all means! [Dave] You're agreeing with me, Mike... that's a dangerous precedent... >I don't want a law >saying you can't use a cell phone, I want one that says you >can't be on the road if you can't drive! But don't we >already have those? > >BTW, if you ban cell phone use you also ban the beneficial >use too. Things like reporting drunk drivers, breakdowns, >accidents, etc. will be limited if people have to get off >the road to do it. Some will take the extra >trouble, but many won't. [Dave] Not necessarily. "Nothing in this section shall prevent or prohibit the use of hand held communication devices to report or respond to an emergency". Nothing in the law allows me to swing a hammer at somebody. OTOH, only one here would dispute my right to do so to defend my life... And, it is well established that such a use would be a lawful and appropriate use of a hammer. >Obviously #1. It isn't always an either/or choice though. >some people can multitask better than others, and some >people can't drive even in total silence. [Dave] You're overcomplicating a simple choice. You choose to drive, you choose to talk. Both have consequences, both together have more. So does driving while fiddling with the car radio. As you said before, "where does it end?" If cell yakking is ok, well, then, so should perusing the morning paper while driving. You can just scan the headlines and picture captions, certainly, and maintain similar vehicle control. And if that's ok, well, then, so should self manicuring AND if you're limber enough, self pedicuring. And make up application ? We *must* allow 2 hand use for that. Women have better fine motor control, so it's difficult for us men-folk to comprehend how someone could steer with their knee and use 2 hands to apply make up using the rear view while still being able to see the road, but trust me gents - they can. It's genetic. >>Is the conversation that much more important than >>everyone's safety in proximity to you? > >Obviously not, but if I'm on the phone, it's only because >doing so isn't endangering anyone. I pay even more >attention to my driving while doing that... [Dave] WRT not endangering anyone, and paying more attention: I feel differently, but as with you, it is my opinion. Because of that, I don't yak and drive. I need a twist on one of those bicyclist shirts that say "one less car" Only I want one that says "One less Cell-phone"... I'd be willing to bet that if you were to drive through 2 different stretches of road, 1 while talking, one while not, with varying identifiable potential hazards, that you would identify more potential hazards while not talking on a cell ( or fiddling with your radio, what have you) >Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow >radios or intercoms, we would have everyone paying better >attention to their driving? > Worth a shot...though the trucking industry is going to >need some damn big bikes! [Dave] Instead of tandem trailers, imagine parallel side rigs... ;-) Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:38:59 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:34:30 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne noted: >I have a bright white truck that is probably 17ft long. I >tow a trailer than is more than 18ft long with that truck. >I have people pull out in front of me all the time. [Dave] It is imporant to note that the laws of physics trump all statutory law, period. Anyone cutting off Wayne in the tow rig above is risking a steep mandatory minimum sentence... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:41:48 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Mike Bartman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:41:22 -0400 > > From: Mike Bartman > At 12:41 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >We just need to hold drivers accountable for their actions. > > Supposedly we do. The laws are on the books for it. "Didn't see the..." > isn't an excuse...it's just an explanation. The driver is still guilty of > running the red light, or causing an "accident". The penalties are in the > laws for all of these things and more. We just need to enforce them better. > > Unfortunately, some judges are far too lenient on repeat offenders, so they > keep their licenses and keep screwing up. Or they lose their licenses, > drive anyway, and aren't put in jail to keep them off the roads. Agreed. I never said we need more laws. But we do need to recognize, as a society, that most "accidents" are anything but, and REALLY hold people responsible. That elderly woman who killed a construction worker on I-95 a few months ago wasn't even prosecuted--were I related to that man I'd be furious, and out for the blood of the woman and the prosecutor who made the decision. > > Given the way our country is designed, you pretty much have to drive to > live almost everywhere, so the judges aren't really to blame > completely...they are trying to balance the road safety needs with the need > to let people eat, work and have a place to live. If we zoned differently > it might be otherwise, but we haven't for the last half century or so, so > most living areas are nowhere near working areas. Take away a license and > you most likely cost a person their job, their home and the country a more > or less productive worker who will then end up on welfare. Yep. And after it happened to your neighbor, you can bet you'd think twice before drinking and driving, or gabbing on your cell phone while driving (Not you personally, Mike). > >Can you imagine a licensed pilot telling using "I didn't see the other > plane on the runway" as an excuse? > > Happens all the time...especially in mid-air collisions. It isn't an > excuse though, just an explanation. Yes. That's why I specifically said "on the runway". > > > Or a train engineer saying "I didn't notice the red signal." > > That one's happened too...though again, not an excuse, just an explanation. > They often lose the right to run trains again, or at the very least, have > to pass a vision test and get re-trained (no pun intended! :^) Right. The difference is that if you tell that to the judge, you'll keep your drivers license. The railroad engineer probably won't. > > >But car drivers use these excuses all the time and get away with it. > > That's a problem if true. Is it really true though? At least in cases > where the police get involved? On, yeah. I've been in traffic court more than a few times over the years (mostly NOT as the defendent, thank God), and I'm amazed at some of the excuses I've heard, and judges have accepted, at least to the extent of reducing the penalties. I does seem to depend a lot on the judge, though. The last time I was in Fairfax Ct (because someone ran into, and totaled, my cage), the judge was a hard-ass who didn't seem inclined to give anyone a break. Even the few who probably deserved one. And I'm sure we've all heard the stories of people who've run into and killed MC riders and gotten things like suspended sentences or 30 days in jail as "punishment." And there was the California Assemblyman (I think it was California--this story got several articles in the AMA magazine) who got off scott free after drinking and driving and killing a biker. Bob Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:52:55 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:46:40 -0400 To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 02:13 PM 8/14/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >My turnsignal experience in MD (and most other places in the US): > > - apply turnsignal 3/4 of the way through a lane change > - apply turnsignal once the lane change is complete > - what's a turnsignal? I've seen a bumper sticker that says, "Using your turn signals is NOT "giving information to the enemy"!!!" -- Mike "'Visualize using your $%@#$! turn signals!' is another good one" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:52:55 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:49:29 -0400 To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return At 02:18 PM 8/14/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >I have a bright white truck that is probably 17ft long. I tow a trailer >than is more than 18ft long with that truck. I have people pull out in >front of me all the time. > >It doesn't matter what you're driving. You could be driving down the road >on fire and people wouldn't notice. :-) As some comedian once remarked, nudity is always spotted...you could be walking down the street firing a machine gun and throwing hand grenades, and if you were naked at the time, the police would get calls reporting a crazed naked guy in the street... Maybe it's time for "bike naked"?? Perhaps with transparent armor to avoid the road rash problem? Maybe that nude biker rally had something.... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:52:55 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:51:49 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: At 02:26 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > >For more info on modulators in general, and this unit in particular, see: > >http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motorcycle-products/comagination/visip ath/visipath.htm > >There's a video clip showing what one looks like here: > >http://www.webbikeworld.com/Reviewed-motorcycle-products/comagination/visip ath/light.AVI Thank you very much for the info and the pointers! Sounds like a good thing to try out... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 14:54:34 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:53:18 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX CC: Mike Bartman , DC-Cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Bob Meyer wrote: > Headlight modulators vary the brightness of the headlight (generally the high beam) at a rate of approximately 4 cycles per second. The first modulator was developed by a neurologist who noticed that certain frequencies of modulated light actually created a physiological reaction in human brains: when the eye sees a light at that frequency, the brain can't help but notice it. As I recall, a rate of about 6 cycles per second is even more effective, but generates epileptic seizures in susceptible people. Federal regulation explicitly makes them legal in all 50 states, btw, and requires a rate of 4 cps. > > The brand I put in my 919 is from comagination, and is quite a bit cheaper than the other ones I've used / seen. It's compact, easy to install, and works. Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:01:12 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:00:59 -0400 HA! Yes, at a total weight approaching 13,000lbs, it would not be a pretty sight. Driving my truck/pulling my trailer down a 4 lane road with a center turn lane, a car pulled out across my lanes. I was traveling around 45mph. I laid on the brakes and the horn. As I approached the driver's door of said vehicle, the look of horror and surprise on the driver's face was priceless. Luckily, they bolted across my lanes and into the center turn lane before I could school them on the laws of physics ;-) I truly can not imagine how the person 'did not see me'. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Dave Yates Dave@XXXXXX Wayne noted: >I have a bright white truck that is probably 17ft long. I >tow a trailer than is more than 18ft long with that truck. >I have people pull out in front of me all the time. [Dave] It is imporant to note that the laws of physics trump all statutory law, period. Anyone cutting off Wayne in the tow rig above is risking a steep mandatory minimum sentence... -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:07:55 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:07:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: American Chopper: the Series (Discovery Channel) To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Anyone watch that show? Freakin' hilarious, plus you get to see really cool bikes. Paul Sr. and Paul Jr. were on the Tonight Show w/ Leno on July 11, but I missed it. I checked out NBC's web site, but they don't sell tapes of shows, and only say that the shows are generally re-run at 2 or 230 am a week after they've originally run, which doesn't help me. Did anyone tape the July 11 show that'd be willing to let me borrow it? thx jib __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:27:12 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:25:31 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 02:30 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >>As far as pulling drivers that weave, run across the center >>divider, etc., yes, by all means! > >[Dave] You're agreeing with me, Mike... that's a dangerous >precedent... I'll agree with anyone if they make sense. On the other hand, I don't feel like I'm bound by precedent... :^) >>BTW, if you ban cell phone use you also ban the beneficial >>use too. Things like reporting drunk drivers, breakdowns, >>accidents, etc. will be limited if people have to get off >>the road to do it. Some will take the extra >>trouble, but many won't. > >[Dave] Not necessarily. "Nothing in this section shall >prevent or prohibit the use of hand held communication >devices to report or respond to an emergency". Ok, that's handled then. >>Obviously #1. It isn't always an either/or choice though. >>some people can multitask better than others, and some >>people can't drive even in total silence. > >[Dave] You're overcomplicating a simple choice. You choose >to drive, you choose to talk. Both have consequences, both >together have more. So does driving while fiddling with the >car radio. As you said before, "where does it end?" If cell >yakking is ok, well, then, so should perusing the morning >paper while driving. You can just scan the headlines and >picture captions, certainly, and maintain similar vehicle >control. And if that's ok, well, then, so should self >manicuring AND if you're limber enough, self pedicuring. And >make up application ? We *must* allow 2 hand use for that. >Women have better fine motor control, so it's difficult for >us men-folk to comprehend how someone could steer with their >knee and use 2 hands to apply make up using the rear view >while still being able to see the road, but trust me gents - >they can. It's genetic. So why ban it? If someone can do that, and still drive safely, let them. If someone else can't drive safely even while dedicating full attention to the process, then they shouldn't be allowed to drive. How do we tell the difference? Well, one way is to wait until they have an accident. If the accident was caused by their inability to do whatever they were doing (or not doing) while driving, we just shoot them. Over time we will weed out the bad drivers. Another way might be to have various classes of license. If you think you can talk on a cell phone and still drive safely, we let you prove it. We set up a realistic test course with unexpected hazards to deal with, and we have you chat with someone on the phone about something interesting as you drive the course. If you manage without problems, you get a "cell phone endorsement" on your license. If you don't, we shoot you... See how this works? We could do the same for the paper readers, the manicurists, the makeup artists, the smokers, the coffee drinkers, and the IBB (Impaired By Birth) folks. Net result should be people at their maximum safety level on the roads. Far fewer than today, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either, right? :^) -- Mike "Motorcycle riders would, of course, be exempt from this stuff" Bartman -- P.S. >>Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow >>radios or intercoms, we would have everyone paying better >>attention to their driving? >> Worth a shot...though the trucking industry is going to >>need some damn big bikes! > >[Dave] Instead of tandem trailers, imagine parallel side >rigs... ;-) A 32-ton sidecar? Very safe, but it can only turn in one direction... :^) **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:36:35 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: Subject: Bike nite Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:36:15 -0400 Okay, just saw the pictures from bike nite, who is the female in the pink top with the Ducati? Is that her Ducati? I wish I could have gone but the renaissance festival slowly approaches and I had to rehearse. Hey, last year I tried this, didn't see much out there. Bike night at the Maryland Renaissance Festival, September 27? It is singles day anyway and should be a crazy day there. Come see me in the chess match, come see me as a 4:00pm joust cheerleader (add your joke in here). Parking for M/C right up front. Scott R Master Thomas Staney, Master of the Revels From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:38:01 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:37:56 -0400 To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . AND Arai Helmet return At 03:00 PM 8/14/03 -0400, wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >HA! Yes, at a total weight approaching 13,000lbs, it would not be a pretty >sight. > >Driving my truck/pulling my trailer down a 4 lane road with a center turn >lane, a car pulled out across my lanes. I was traveling around 45mph. I >laid on the brakes and the horn. As I approached the driver's door of said >vehicle, the look of horror and surprise on the driver's face was >priceless. I suspect your problems, like those of bikers, are due to human perceptual design defects. We judge speed and distance by size and rate of change of size. A bike is small, therefore "not close", so the brain says, "You have time, go!"...but the bike is really a lot closer, so boom! The truck is huge, so the brain initially says, "close!", but the size change rate is too low for close, so the brain says, "my mistake...must be far and just bigger than I thought!" so they go...but you are really moving faster than it looked, and closer than they thought...boom again. The "cure" is probably to include some perceptual education in driver training. They include that stuff in pilot training already...a wide runway looks closer than a narrow one for instance. We start to judge altitude by the width to length ratio we see, using the field we are most familiar with for reference, and it's not a conscious thing...I started a flare once at about 50' when my instructor took me to a place with a much wider runway than I was used to. Point was made! (and I was real happy I did that with a qualified flight instructor mounted upright in the right seat, rather than on a solo flight! :^) >I truly can not imagine how the person 'did not see me'. I'm sure they saw you, and misjudged the distance and closing rate...perhaps for the above reason. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:38:06 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:31:00 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , rmeyer9@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX At 02:53 PM 8/14/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Bob Meyer wrote: > >> Headlight modulators vary the brightness of the headlight (generally the high >Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) Using a modulator might help the bulbs last longer...with the filaments off part of the time they aren't going to be as easy to break from vibrations. Might be worth a test. I'm planning to get a Harley as soon as the local dealer gets some '04s in stock...I'll look into modulators ASAP...right after I get the foot controls usable! :^) -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:42:35 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:41:48 -0400 To: "S. Russell" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Bike nite At 03:36 PM 8/14/03 -0400, S. Russell wrote: >Okay, just saw the pictures from bike nite, who is the female in the pink >top with the Ducati? Is that her Ducati? I wish I could have gone but the >renaissance festival slowly approaches and I had to rehearse. What do you do there? I have friends who work the faire, and I'm usually there at least once or twice a year. >Hey, last year I tried this, didn't see much out there. Bike night at the >Maryland Renaissance Festival, September 27? It is singles day anyway and >should be a crazy day there. Sounds like a plan! I may even have a bike by then! :^) >Come see me in the chess match, come see me as >a 4:00pm joust cheerleader (add your joke in here). Parking for M/C right >up front. You must know Barchan then! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:48:44 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:48:38 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >So why ban it? If someone can do that, and still drive >safely, let them. [Dave] At this point, I'm invoking the "compelling state interest" cliche. If you allow it, statistically, more people will be injured or killed. Those who are injured or killed may only pay limited and one time (estate) taxes, respectively, so therefore the State has a compelling interest in seeing to our safety while commuting back and forth to work so we can be good little taxpayers, and support social engineering projects, current and future ! >If someone else can't drive safely even while dedicating >full attention to the process, then they shouldn't be >allowed to drive. >How do we tell the difference? Well, one way is to wait >until they have an accident. If the accident was caused by >their inability to do whatever they were doing (or not >doing) while driving, we just shoot them. Over >time we will weed out the bad drivers. [Dave] good thing I put the flame retardant on the 'stich... Haven't you heard, Mike :-/ ? Guns and shooting are BAD ! Besides, with ever increasing bullet costs, it seems an awful waste to implement your plan. Why not "enforce the laws already on the books"... Trial by Combat anyone ? ;-) ... If you manage without problems, you get a "cell phone >endorsement" on your license. If you don't, we shoot you... [Dave] I have a better idea. Give them a Cell phone time out. In fact, give them a 100% oral communication time out... some of these nutcases wouldn't last 30 minutes before going bonkers not being able to hear the latest gab. > >See how this works? We could do the same for the paper >readers, the manicurists, the makeup artists, the smokers, >the coffee drinkers, and the IBB (Impaired By Birth) folks. >Net result should be people at their maximum safety level on >the roads. Far fewer than today, but that's not >necessarily a bad thing either, right? :^) > [Dave] OTOH, your plan does have certain merits... Just imagine the beltway with 75% less traffic... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 15:56:30 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:56:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Bike nite To: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX That's a friend of mine and my wife's - Lori. Yes, that's her Ducati. It's a Monster 750. But don't get your hopes up - she's taken, and by a guy who's probably a better rider than you and me put together. :^) Cheers, Chris Weaver --- "S. Russell" wrote: > Okay, just saw the pictures from bike nite, who is > the female in the pink > top with the Ducati? Is that her Ducati? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 16:15:24 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:15:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Blinding personal revelation of the day... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX There is a basic incompatibility between beards and helmet quick-release latches. Ouch. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 16:25:08 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:25:46 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: Subject: Re: Bike nite Chris wrote: >>> Chris Weaver 08/14/03 03:56PM >>> That's a friend of mine and my wife's - Lori. Judy's comment: Yes, I consider myself a friend of both Chris and Sally! >>>Yes, that's her Ducati. It's a Monster 750. Judy's comment: No, it is my Ducati (depending on which picture your looking at). It is a 748. So what, . . . what are an additional two ccs. :) >>>But don't get your hopes up - she's taken, Judy's comment: Trust me, I won't! >>> and by a guy who's probably a better rider than you and me put together. :^) Judy's comment: Now here is where we begin to talk! You said she was taken--great! I am a friend of Chris and Sally, I have a Ducati (and the bike was in one of the pictures), and if HE is a better rider than Chris and S. Russell (sorry, S. Russell--I do not know what type of rider you are, I am guessing good by the comment), I believe I need to talk to him!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am always looking for an excellent, more experienced rider to learn a few things! You can never have too much learning experience on a motorcycle. :) >>>Cheers, Chris Weaver Judy's comment: I am just JOKING!!! I just could not resist to make a few comments. I actually met Lori at Bike Night, she is very pleasant! Cheers, Judy --- "S. Russell" wrote: > Okay, just saw the pictures from bike nite, who is > the female in the pink > top with the Ducati? Is that her Ducati? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 16:43:07 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 16:40:34 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 At 03:48 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] good thing I put the flame retardant on the 'stich... >Haven't you heard, Mike :-/ ? Guns and shooting are BAD ! Who says so?!?! Let's shoot them!!! :^) >Besides, with ever increasing bullet costs, it seems an awful >waste to implement your plan. Why not "enforce the laws >already on the books"... > >Trial by Combat anyone ? ;-) Sounds good to me...it's on the books in Maryland I hear. State Constitution guarantees all the rights guaranteed under the English charter...which included all those held by English subjects at the time it was written. Since it wasn't until sometime in the late 1800's that the English Parliament removed "trial by combat" as a right, it was still in there when the Maryland charter was granted, and so transferred into the Maryland Constitution...I don't know if they've amended the state Constitution to remove it in the last 10 years or so, but a lawyer I know did use it back in the 80s...successfully I was told. (the prosecutor declined the challenge :^). >>See how this works? We could do the same for the paper >>readers, the manicurists, the makeup artists, the smokers, >>the coffee drinkers, and the IBB (Impaired By Birth) folks. >>Net result should be people at their maximum safety level on >>the roads. Far fewer than today, but that's not >>necessarily a bad thing either, right? :^) > >[Dave] OTOH, your plan does have certain merits... Just >imagine the beltway with 75% less traffic... You mean like it had back in 1980 when I moved up here? :^) -- Mike "it was still pretty scary at times...but it did move" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 16:48:11 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:48:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Bob Meyer wrote: > The brand I put in my 919 is from comagination, and is > quite a bit cheaper than the other ones I've used / seen. > It's compact, easy to install, and works. Very interesting -- I just ordered their combo pack with the brake flasher for my 919 yesterday. Did you get the brake flasher too? Any installation glitches on either? Thanks -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 17:07:54 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:06:43 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Larry Larson CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Blinding personal revelation of the day... Larry Larson wrote: > There is a basic incompatibility between beards and helmet > quick-release latches. > > Ouch. > > -- Larry And d-rings also. My friend, who at one time sported a 31" handlebar mustache, got the hairs caught in the d-rings. He left the beach in his 500cc hydro, looped around the upper turen and "pulled the pipes", which is sorta like pumping nitrious in the two stroke tuned pipe alcohol fueled outboard. Around 100 mph the slippery hairs caused the strap to slide free and his helmet blew off! Fortunately, helmets float... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 20:15:37 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Rear flashers Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 20:14:07 -0400 From: Bob Meyer > From: Mike Bartman > > Anybody know if it's legal to put flashing lights on a bike, so long as > they are yellow, not red or blue? Might be worth a shot, and would > certainly make any idiot that tried the "I didn't see him" line look like a > total fool in court. > > -- Mike " ...snip Sometime later, I checked into the legality of using the flashing LED lights that are popular with bicylclists. The answer this time was a little uncertain, but the feeling of the office (again, MD state) was that it was legal if mounted ON THE RIDER, and not on the vehicle. Problem with these things is they are not really visible in daylight, which is probably when we need them most. HTH, Bob *****Have had rear extra led brake flashers for 5+ years with no problem in several states. Evolved philosophy -- if it makes the bike safer (more visible) try it. Wirecut/tapeover can always be effected for inquiring gendarmes. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Neon next? Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 20:47:03 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX what's kinda funny is that I put my name down to be an instructor for them. Probably won't make even the first cut but hey, it ought to be eye-opening at any rate. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 20:55:58 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 17:55:35 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: R1 down, part duex :-) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX hell, what do I know but... 1) off-camber road (unless the camera lens is adding unwanted distortion) 2) guy apex'ed WAY too early around a semi-blind corner. 3) He didn't finish the arc which suggests a couple of things: * attention distracted by on-coming van/truck thing * attention distracted by on-coming low-wall * paniced as the rear tire got a little loose on the camber and instead of pressing more to finish it, let up and ran off the road * probably also target-fixated on the edge of the road+wall+ravine+dirt instead of giving the bars a good shove which would have kept him very much out of mishap. That'll be $350 and I even save you the hassle of enrolling for CSS. *bow*...*grin* ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 21:55:53 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:09:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle >From the sh.org message board: ----- Thought that some of you guys would appreciate these photos. It was a hell of a trip...9650 miles in 17 days!! Dallas to the Arctic Circle and back. http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663379.jpg http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663315.jpg http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663429.jpg There were no paved roads for the last 200+ miles from Fairbanks to the Circle. We had to ride on a service road for the Alaskan Pipeline that was "chipseal". Very sharp rocks and aggregate. They watered the road so it wouldn't be so dusty, and this turned the surface to very sketchy mud. If I had the choice to do it again, I wouldn't do it on a Hayabusa. It beat the shit out of the bikes and us, too. Twenty miles in to the road, we were destined to make it all of the way...there was no turning back! We saw a couple of guys on BMW GS's that told us to turn around and that we were crazy and we would not make it to the Circle without mechanical problems. http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663348.jpg We stayed in Fairbanks for 2 days and that's where we left our luggage. I have a Ventura luggage system and it works great! It took alot of abuse on those roads up there, much of it was damaged in a large earthquake in November of 2002. Locals said it was 8.1 on the richter scale and that's HUGE! Tons of gravel and construction zones. We did quite a few 700+ mile days on those roads. Nice thing about being so far up north is that the sun NEVER sets! It was daylight at 1:00 in the morning, so we never had to ride "at night". http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663390.jpg ----- -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 22:34:44 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:34:12 -0400 I don't know what's stranger.... 1. Seeing two 'busa's at the Arctic Circle, or 2. Seeing a guy riding a 'busa in a 'stich. ;-) Rob '98 VFR800 (with a 'stich) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:09:29 -0400 (EDT) >From the sh.org message board: ----- Thought that some of you guys would appreciate these photos. It was a hell of a trip...9650 miles in 17 days!! Dallas to the Arctic Circle and back. http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663379.jpg http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663315.jpg http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663429.jpg There were no paved roads for the last 200+ miles from Fairbanks to the Circle. We had to ride on a service road for the Alaskan Pipeline that was "chipseal". Very sharp rocks and aggregate. They watered the road so it wouldn't be so dusty, and this turned the surface to very sketchy mud. If I had the choice to do it again, I wouldn't do it on a Hayabusa. It beat the shit out of the bikes and us, too. Twenty miles in to the road, we were destined to make it all of the way...there was no turning back! We saw a couple of guys on BMW GS's that told us to turn around and that we were crazy and we would not make it to the Circle without mechanical problems. http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663348.jpg We stayed in Fairbanks for 2 days and that's where we left our luggage. I have a Ventura luggage system and it works great! It took alot of abuse on those roads up there, much of it was damaged in a large earthquake in November of 2002. Locals said it was 8.1 on the richter scale and that's HUGE! Tons of gravel and construction zones. We did quite a few 700+ mile days on those roads. Nice thing about being so far up north is that the sun NEVER sets! It was daylight at 1:00 in the morning, so we never had to ride "at night". http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL91/1369608/2606842/31663390.jpg ----- -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 14 23:39:46 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:34:59 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: wayne@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Thu, 14 Aug 2003 22:39:35 -0500 wayne@XXXXXX wrote: >HA! Yes, at a total weight approaching 13,000lbs, it would not be a pretty >sight. > >Driving my truck/pulling my trailer down a 4 lane road with a center turn >lane, a car pulled out across my lanes. I was traveling around 45mph. I >laid on the brakes and the horn. As I approached the driver's door of said >vehicle, the look of horror and surprise on the driver's face was >priceless. Luckily, they bolted across my lanes and into the center turn >lane before I could school them on the laws of physics ;-) > >I truly can not imagine how the person 'did not see me'. > > Wayne, One thing that stuck with me was a PBS / Discovery Channel documentary on brain studies. This researcher told his subjects to watch a tv monitor of a man bouncing a ball. While the subject was watching, someone in a gorilla suit walked up behind the man bouncing the ball, and started jumping up and down and waving his arms for a few seconds then walks off camera. After the session was over the researcher asks the subject if he seen the guy in the gorilla suit. Something like 9 out of 10 didn't see the guy in the gorilla suit. People are so intent on seeing what they expect to see, that I ride like I'm invisible to all of the cagers around me. It seems safer to me that way. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 00:02:26 2003 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:57:39 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike nite X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:02:15 -0500 S. Russell wrote: > Bike night at the >Maryland Renaissance Festival, September 27? It is singles day anyway and >should be a crazy day there. Parking for M/C right >up front. > > Scott, I've got some contacts with ABATE of Maryland as well as SOC-USA. How big of a bike night do you want? Is there any way we could offer the discounted ticket prices? I'll be there nonetheless. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 00:13:43 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , "S. Russell" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike nite Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:15:11 -0500 Can I get a giant turkey leg? Where exactly is it? I used to go to the one in Sterling, NY every summer and it's a hoot, gotta love wenches in push up bras serving ale in a horn. Rob On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:57:39 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote > S. Russell wrote: > > > Bike night at the > >Maryland Renaissance Festival, September 27? It is singles day anyway and > >should be a crazy day there. Parking for M/C right > >up front. > > > > > Scott, > I've got some contacts with ABATE of Maryland as well > as SOC-USA. How big of a bike night do you want? Is there any way we > could offer the discounted ticket prices? I'll be there nonetheless. > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 00:35:41 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:30:52 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Rob Sharp CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike nite X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:35:29 -0500 Rob Sharp wrote: >Can I get a giant turkey leg? >Where exactly is it? I used to go to the one in Sterling, NY every summer and >it's a hoot, gotta love wenches in push up bras serving ale in a horn. > >Rob > > Rob, Here ya' go. http://www.rennfest.com/mrf/index.html And yes, they have turkey legs and the Wenches serving ale's and micros. Gotta' bring your own horn and do the pouring yourself, though. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 01:06:08 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:01:20 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" CC: Rob Sharp , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Bike nite X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:05:57 -0500 > > > Rob Sharp wrote: > >> Can I get a giant turkey leg? > Rob, Here's proof..................... http://www.rennfest.com/mrf/photos/prev/94p10.htm > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 01:47:06 2003 From: "Rob Curtis" To: "'matthew patton'" , Subject: RE: R1 down, part duex :-) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 01:47:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out006.verizon.net from [141.156.176.210] at Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:46:58 -0500 Did Anyone notice how close that guys was to a "Wiley E. Coyote" over the edge there? Running a little wide right there might have made me wonder a few things: 1) Just how much of an effect gravity would have on me as I left the road. 2) Where the closest emergency room was. 3) What is my insurance deductible. 4) Did I remember to zip my leathers all the way up after that last pee break. All this is to say, I can relate. That mighta distracted me, too. (Target Fixation, what's that? ) Rob -----Original Message----- From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX] From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 05:13:29 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 02:13:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Begeman Report. Sounds like Leon's having fun in the IBR... Fish. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 00:17:55 EDT From: Dukestor@XXXXXX To: LDrider@XXXXXX Subject: LDRider: Mt. Evans on a Ninja 250 Just talked to Leon Begeman on the Ninja 250 batphone as he was heading toward Amarillo. He made it to Mt. Evans this morning where he saw Harold Brooks, Will Lee and Brent Aimes. On the way down the mountain he was following Harold. He looked ahead and Mr. Brooks was waving him past. From what I understand, Harold's no slowpoke. Leon said he felt as if Michael Schumacher had just waved him by during an F1 race. He didn't take the offer...but it sure made his day. For those heading to FL. see you tomorrow night at Lake City. Duke Dunsford Nashville, TN Ninja 250 --------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, send a message to: ldrider-unsubscribe@XXXXXX --------------------------------------------------------------- From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 06:40:38 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:40:30 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/14/2003 12:41:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > Failure to see another legally operating motor vehicle, or a properly working > traffic signal, should be grounds for immediate license suspension. Prima > Facie evidence of incompetence. You have my vote. I always figgured if I was a cop when someone said "I did not see the motorcycle" I would write "did not look" on my report. "Oh really? I guess I did not hear you." John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 06:53:18 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:53:12 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/14/2003 1:49:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow radios or > intercoms, we would have everyone paying better attention to their driving? Graduated licensing. Everyone starts out on a 400cc or smaller bike, then after a year or so to unlimited motorcycles and after a year or so they can get a license for a car. And yes they would learn to pay attention or Darwin would take over. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 06:58:52 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 06:58:41 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/14/2003 2:01:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dave@XXXXXX writes: > The best phrase to describe it I > can think of is the line the announcer uses at the (horse) > race track - "And THEY'RE OFF"... I knew it felt familiar! Used to race motocross, 40+- guys all headed for the 3 bike wide first corner at the same time as fast as they could go. Deja vu all over again. #8-o> John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 07:10:54 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:09:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/14/2003 1:49:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow radios or > > intercoms, we would have everyone paying better attention to their driving? > > Graduated licensing. > Everyone starts out on a 400cc or smaller bike, then after a year or so to > unlimited motorcycles and after a year or so they can get a license for a car. > And yes they would learn to pay attention or Darwin would take over. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX That would be nice. Graduated license would encourage the japanese to import some of their very fine lightwieght motorcycles, and the graduated to larger cc used bike market would be busy. I'm thinking a plethoria of cheap commuter/beater bikes available. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 07:43:58 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:43:52 EDT Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/14/2003 11:40:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > People are so intent on seeing what they expect to see, that I ride > like I'm invisible to all of the cagers around me. It seems safer to me > that way. For the majority of my riding career I subscribed to the "invisible" concept but of late I prefer "hard to see" Why? Because the implication if you are invisible is that there is nothing you can do about it, if you are invisible you _cannot_ be seen. This is of course better then "they _must_ see me" but... If you are "hard to see" by implication there is something you can do about it, lane position, headlight modulators, bright colors, nudity. The point is we should _actively_make_ ourselves seen. You still have to ride like they are out to get you. All this stuff is good, just do not let your modulators or whatever put you into the "they must see me" category or you will lose any benefit from their use and may in fact loose ground. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 08:08:10 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 8:08:03 -0400 > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/08/15 Fri AM 06:53:12 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Car vs. MC and my time in GW Trauma Center Part 1 > > In a message dated 8/14/2003 1:49:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > omni@XXXXXX writes: > > > Perhaps if we put everyone on motorcycles, and didn't allow radios or > > intercoms, we would have everyone paying better attention to their driving? > > Graduated licensing. > Everyone starts out on a 400cc or smaller bike, then after a year or so to > unlimited motorcycles and after a year or so they can get a license for a car. > And yes they would learn to pay attention or Darwin would take over. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > What I've noticed is that the longer one has been riding, the more likely it is that they started out on smaller cc bikes and worked their way up. Many people now seem to take the MSF and right away jump on a >600/700cc bike and off they go. For example, I started out at age 12 with a minibike then a 50cc Honda then a 90cc SL, 250, 350, 500, 700, 750 etc... up to the Wide Glide I have now. I can't count how many newbies I've seen rush out and buy an Electra Glide even though their experience comprised a total of 6 months experience on a friends 125cc dirt bike back in the 60's. -aki From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:18:43 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:18:39 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >I don't know what's stranger.... > >1. Seeing two 'busa's at the Arctic Circle, or > >2. Seeing a guy riding a 'busa in a 'stich. > >;-) [Dave] Hey, with that layer of dirt, those 'busers don't look half bad ;-) Neat trip. What would make it an impressive trip would be making the journey in January. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:20:47 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:24:04 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Bob Meyer wrote: > > Today, a lady that I work with turned from two lanes over > I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Headlight Modulator!!! > I recently added a modulator to my bike as I'm commuting on it nearly every day, and was getting bothered the frequency of people cutting me off and was hoping the modulator would help. It has, and then some. I used to have 1-2 cut offs per day, since I added the modulator I'm down to maybe 1 a week. Also as a side benefit it seems that the car in front of me is not real thrilled with the modulator, and they seem very willing to pull over so I can pass. I've also added a bar of LED's under the license plate that flash yellow for 1-2 seconds when the brake is first applied and then go solid red. It is hard to say, but I think it is getting people to stop sooner when they are behind me. I'm on a BMW with system cases and I recently picked up some reflective material to put on the backs of the cases. I was recently following another couple of bikes to work one morning one of which who had the reflective material, and one who did not... huge difference. -john From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:21:48 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:21:44 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: Subject: Re: Blinding personal revelation of the day... I know what you mean. I can tell when my beard needs trimming when it starts getting caught in the helmet straps ... :-) Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Larry Larson Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 13:15:16 -0700 (PDT) >There is a basic incompatibility between beards and helmet >quick-release latches. > >Ouch. > >-- Larry > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:45:49 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:59:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 jdonovan@XXXXXX wrote: > I've also added a bar of LED's under the license plate that flash yellow > for 1-2 seconds when the brake is first applied and then go solid red. It > is hard to say, but I think it is getting people to stop sooner when they > are behind me. Do you have any details on this? Is it something you made or something you purchased? Thanks! -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:56:26 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:48:33 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle At 10:09 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >I have a Ventura luggage system and it works great! It took alot of abuse on >those roads up there, much of it was damaged in a large earthquake in >November of 2002. Locals said it was 8.1 on the richter scale and that's >HUGE! Wow...I've never heard of an earthquake strong enough to damage luggage! At least, not without making a building fall on it or something... :^) Sounds like a rough, memorable and perhaps even fun trip! Did you have to carry extra gas, or were there places to get it even on that 200 mile dirt/gravel stretch? -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 09:56:56 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:56:53 -0400 To: jdonovan@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators At 09:24 AM 8/15/03 -0400, jdonovan@XXXXXX wrote: >Also as a side benefit it seems that the car in front >of me is not real thrilled with the modulator, and they seem very willing >to pull over so I can pass. Given the piss-poor state of most drivers' knowledge of the rules of the road, I wonder if they think you are a cop or something? :^) -- Mike "I think they are giving away licenses in boxes of Cracker Jacks" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 10:09:37 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: Wayne Edelen cc: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 jdonovan@XXXXXX wrote: > > > I've also added a bar of LED's under the license plate that flash yellow > > for 1-2 seconds when the brake is first applied and then go solid red. It > > is hard to say, but I think it is getting people to stop sooner when they > > are behind me. > > Do you have any details on this? Is it something you made or something > you purchased? > I've had several people ask about this unit, so here is a link. http://www.kriss.com/ledflasher.htm It has 4 modes/flash patterns, the site only shows 1 of them. -JD From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 10:40:45 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 07:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: New Garage Ideas? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. I have successfully negotiated complete control of this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. I'm thinking about: - painting the floor with epoxy paint (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) - building/buying a workbench - building/buying heavy duty shelving - buying a good quality tool chest - installing a garage door opener (a definite) - putting up a big pegboard If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I might not have thought of, let's hear it! TIA, Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 10:42:17 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: hipykilrs@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX, Dan_Bui@XXXXXX, Jck22903@XXXXXX, rob@XXXXXX, eben.cox@XXXXXX, kkittst1100@XXXXXX, shanesr74@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Man Down Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 10:30:24 -0400 Hey all, my friend Zac in alexandria, va low-sided his 88 grey hawk yesterday on 495 outer loop just north of the dulles toll road. Amazingly he's alright...just a raspberry on his right side where he has a set of keys in his joe rocket mesh. He was going ~45 mph in the slow lane @ 2pm....the car in front of him was randoming on thier brakes, so zac gives his a little space. Then a black Mercedes flys inbetween them just as the car up front hits his brakes....mercedes slams on his brakes halfway into the lane, zac low sides to the right to aviod slaming into the mercedes. They keep driving away by the way. Fortunately after about 10 cars pass, someone in a truck actually stops (motorcycler) to help pull the bike from the roadway... Damage...all on right side. Scraped cowl both turn signals small ding on end of supertrap and rear header both proflo clipons sheared off (the clamps, not the bars) Left clipon bar ramed up into Speedo window-window broken Right starter assembly ripped from wires nice dents in right side tank from rt handlebar cluster compressed radiator hose (not bad) and bent shifter linkage (not too bad) tank is a little wobbly on mounts...checking on that later. scuffed front brake line (stock) dinged up month old arai helmet Questions...( I guess mostly for Hawk knowledgable people) 1 do we need to replace the whole insrument cluster or just the speedo pod? 2. The starter wire along with small sodder plate inside right side assembly ripped from plastic inside the assembly...plastic inside is broken. I'm assuming we need to replace the wiring as well as the assembly? 3. Going to go Buell signals now i guess ...which ones work well? I'm assuming We're getting them from L.Phillips Needed to leesburg Va... 1. 41mm clipons (adjustable rise preferably) (bars not neccesarialy needed if they are pro flo clamps) 2. insrument cluster (or just a Speedo pod...see number 1 question above) 3. Right side starter assembly...with wires hopefully? 4. Might as well go stainless brake line. (have clip-ons, so shorter lines needed) I think that's about it for now. I'll get back to the list if we need anything else. thanks for support ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 11:34:57 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:25:48 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Car Video I had to run down to Norfolk yesterday and came home last night around 1am. Next to me was a new Explorer with a very old lady driving. In place of a mirror on her sun visor was an LCD screen with some TV show. 30 minutes later I saw another one in the passenger sun visor, tilted towards the driver. Granted - I was in a 10 mile backup on 95 and don't begrudge the use of the screens in that situation, but something tells me that when you put these things in a driver's side sunscreen, the driver will use it while driving. That ... is insane. _____________________________________ Mike Troutman - off work 'cause he didn't get in 'til 2am. mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 11:35:42 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:35:57 -0400 Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? From: Stephen Miller To: How about a turntable-type thing on the floor to turn your bikes around in the garage? Kinda like the one Batman has for the Batmobile. ;-) on 8/15/03 10:40 AM, Chris Weaver at chris_vtr@XXXXXX wrote: > Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new > home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to > keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > > I have successfully negotiated complete control of > this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on > what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. > I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to > work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. > > I'm thinking about: > > - painting the floor with epoxy paint > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) > - building/buying a workbench > - building/buying heavy duty shelving > - buying a good quality tool chest > - installing a garage door opener (a definite) > - putting up a big pegboard > > If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I > might not have thought of, let's hear it! > > TIA, > Chris Weaver > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 11:36:10 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:36:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Re: Hayabusas in the Arctic Circle To: Mike Bartman , Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX What cool trip; had no idea you could ride to the arctic circle. How beat up is the bike? Am also curious about gas. One day I'd like to ride the Pan American highway from Alaska to Chile/Argentina. From what I understand, you can ride the whole way except from Panama to Colombia. jib --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:09 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: > >I have a Ventura luggage system and it works great! > It took alot of abuse on > >those roads up there, much of it was damaged in a > large earthquake in > >November of 2002. Locals said it was 8.1 on the > richter scale and that's > >HUGE! > > Wow...I've never heard of an earthquake strong > enough to damage luggage! > At least, not without making a building fall on it > or something... :^) > > Sounds like a rough, memorable and perhaps even fun > trip! Did you have to > carry extra gas, or were there places to get it even > on that 200 mile > dirt/gravel stretch? > > -- Mike Bartman > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 11:51:48 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 08:46:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Sounds like you've got it pretty well covered. If you go with an epoxy finish for the floor, be sure to use the type that requires an acid etch prior to painting. It's a pain, but the floor is bulletproof. Regular roll-on epoxy finishes don't harden well and don't stand up to rolling loads. An alternative would be black & white tiles checkerboarded in a 2' square pattern. Michael J. The optimum house is a 4 car garage with a bathroom attached. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 12:22:10 2003 From: Han Park To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: New Garage Ideas? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:22:06 -0400 I have a 2 car garage which I've epoxied with stuff from home depot and put up lots of pegboard. The pegboard is great and it provides so much space I don't need a tool chest, it's great having all your tools out in the open for easy access. I can just walk by and grab all the tools I need for a job, and when done easily replace them. A tool chest would provide more security though, it's not a real big worry in my neighborhood. The epoxy stuff is great, where it's not coming up. The home depot kit comes with a very mild acid, which I used. I also did a good job cleaning the floor (3 times!), but it's still coming up where the tires of the car are. Still the areas underneath the car are fine and it's great for spills of any type. If I had to do it again I would either look for a kit with a better acid etch or maybe some of the tile stuff which is removable, that way you can always move it from house to house. han > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Jordan [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 8:47 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? > > > Sounds like you've got it pretty well covered. If you go with > an epoxy finish for the floor, be sure to use the type that > requires an acid etch prior to painting. It's a pain, but the > floor is bulletproof. Regular roll-on epoxy finishes don't > harden well and don't stand up to rolling loads. > > An alternative would be black & white tiles checkerboarded in > a 2' square pattern. > > Michael J. > > The optimum house is a 4 car garage with a bathroom attached. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 13:01:20 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:01:20 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: RE: New Garage Ideas? If you do the floor treatment, do it something other than grey or black. I saw a guy that did bright blue once....makes it easy to find small, dropped parts. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 13:22:04 2003 Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 12:23:00 -0500 From: To: , You could visit this web site and go nuts with the credit card http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_3000 Nice stuff, but a bit pricey. George >>> Chris Weaver 08/15/03 10:40AM >>> If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I might not have thought of, let's hear it! TIA, Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 14:17:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:17:52 EDT Subject: Re: Man Down To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/15/2003 10:42:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX writes: > low sides to the right to aviod slaming into the mercedes. ??????? Did what? Sorry but with the very small amount of information given that makes no sense to me. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 14:22:33 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:22:21 EDT Subject: Re: Car Video To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/15/2003 11:35:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mike@XXXXXX writes: > In place > of a mirror on her sun visor was an LCD screen with some TV show. I expect what you saw was a _back seat_ entertainment system, from behind it looks just like it is where the mirror would be. They are becoming common on high end cars/trucks. At least I hope so... Illegal as hell if the driver can see it. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 14:28:32 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Car Video Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:28:24 -0400 It's not uncommon to mount video screens in the visors, including the driver's side. I've seen them in everything from 2 seat cars to big SUVs. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX I expect what you saw was a _back seat_ entertainment system, from behind it looks just like it is where the mirror would be. They are becoming common on high end cars/trucks. At least I hope so... Illegal as hell if the driver can see it. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 14:31:08 2003 From: "Jeff Wisecarver" To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Man Down Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:31:00 -0400 The mercedes was coming into the slow lane right in front of him from the 2nd to slowest lane. As mercedes was doing this the car in front of the mercedes hit his brakes causing the merccedes to hit his brakes. Zac swerved to the right to avoid the stopping mercedes and went down. ----------- Jeffrey C. Wisecarver jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX Home (703)780-5421 Cell (703)786-4723 '89 RED ----Original Message Follows---- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Man Down Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:17:52 EDT In a message dated 8/15/2003 10:42:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX writes: > low sides to the right to aviod slaming into the mercedes. ??????? Did what? Sorry but with the very small amount of information given that makes no sense to me. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 14:37:01 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:36:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Man Down To: Jeff Wisecarver , PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Those benzes have top notch anti-lock brakes and can stop much more quickly than a Hawk I think. --- Jeff Wisecarver wrote: > The mercedes was coming into the slow lane right in > front of him from the > 2nd to slowest lane. As mercedes was doing this the > car in front of the > mercedes hit his brakes causing the merccedes to hit > his brakes. Zac > swerved to the right to avoid the stopping mercedes > and went down. > > > > ----------- > Jeffrey C. Wisecarver > jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX > Home (703)780-5421 > Cell (703)786-4723 > '89 RED > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Man Down > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:17:52 EDT > > In a message dated 8/15/2003 10:42:35 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX writes: > > > low sides to the right to aviod slaming into the > mercedes. > > ??????? > Did what? > Sorry but with the very small amount of information > given that makes no > sense > to me. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months > FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 15:07:36 2003 From: "Perry Coleman" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Man Down Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:07:28 -0400 Sounds like the classic brake and swerve reaction. Almost guaranteed to drop you on a bike. Brake or swerve, but not both... Too bad for the bike, glad he's OK, though. Perry >From: "Jeff Wisecarver" >To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Man Down >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:31:00 -0400 > >The mercedes was coming into the slow lane right in front of him from the >2nd to slowest lane. As mercedes was doing this the car in front of the >mercedes hit his brakes causing the merccedes to hit his brakes. Zac >swerved to the right to avoid the stopping mercedes and went down. > > > >----------- >Jeffrey C. Wisecarver >jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX >Home (703)780-5421 >Cell (703)786-4723 >'89 RED > > > > > >----Original Message Follows---- >From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Man Down >Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:17:52 EDT > >In a message dated 8/15/2003 10:42:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >jeff_wisecarver@XXXXXX writes: > > > low sides to the right to aviod slaming into the mercedes. > >??????? >Did what? >Sorry but with the very small amount of information given that makes no >sense >to me. > >John. >PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 16:17:46 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:16:40 -0400 To: Chris Weaver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? At 07:40 AM 8/15/03 -0700, Chris Weaver wrote: >Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new >home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to >keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > >I have successfully negotiated complete control of >this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on >what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. >I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to >work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. > >I'm thinking about: > >- painting the floor with epoxy paint > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) >- building/buying a workbench >- building/buying heavy duty shelving >- buying a good quality tool chest >- installing a garage door opener (a definite) >- putting up a big pegboard > >If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I >might not have thought of, let's hear it! Most obvious omission: good lighting! You can't really have too much...unless you start to tan while working out there! :^) I've got the one 300 watt standard garage bulb in my 2-car, and it's nowhere near enough. I use a portable halogen work light rack with two heads on it, total 1500 watts if I turn all four bulbs on, to supplement it. It's adequate, but not ideal. You get enough light that way, but you have to aim it where you are working, it's hot in the summer, and the glare is horrendous if you happen to look in its direction. A good set of florescent tubes in an array over the ceiling is much better. You might want to look into that new wall stuff with the horizontal grooves in it. It allows you to hang cabinets, workbenches, tool racks, parts bins and whatever else you like without having to drill holes. It's stronger than pegboard, looks 1000% better, and serves the same sort of purpose. If you watch that show on SpeedVision where they are restoring the early model Corvette, they used it on the walls in the dream garage. I just got a postcard trying to sell me some and I can give you what details are on it if you like. No idea what it costs, but I'm sure it's more than pegboard... :^) Have fun! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 16:27:44 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:20:37 -0400 To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car Video At 11:25 AM 8/15/03 -0400, Troutman wrote: >I had to run down to Norfolk yesterday and came home last night around >1am. Next to me was a new Explorer with a very old lady driving. In place >of a mirror on her sun visor was an LCD screen with some TV show. 30 >minutes later I saw another one in the passenger sun visor, tilted towards >the driver. > >Granted - I was in a 10 mile backup on 95 and don't begrudge the use of the >screens in that situation, but something tells me that when you put these >things in a driver's side sunscreen, the driver will use it while >driving. That ... is insane. Isn't it also illegal? I thought that any TVs in a vehicle had to be where the driver couldn't see them? Like in the back of the front seats, or in an overhead mount in the rear? Anybody know the law for sure on this? I agree, it's nuts! I'm careful not to look too much at my GPS while the car is moving...a TV would be WAY too distracting! -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 16:37:23 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:37:52 -0400 To: Chris Weaver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? At 04:16 PM 8/15/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >>If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I >>might not have thought of, let's hear it! >You might want to look into that new wall stuff with the horizontal grooves >in it. It allows you to hang cabinets, workbenches, tool racks, parts bins Here's a pointer: http://www.garagetek.com/homeowners/index.html -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 16:57:09 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:57:17 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Car Video At 02:22 PM 8/15/2003, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >I expect what you saw was a _back seat_ entertainment system, Nope - front visor. Two separate cars (both Ford Explorers). I thought it was illegal too. Buying a F150 this weekend. Getting a good deal as the '04s roll in. Test drove everything else I liked - Dodge, Toyota - not the same. The Hemi was nice though ;-) _____________________________________ Mike Troutman mike@XXXXXX http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 18:47:57 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:46:44 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Han Park CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Han Park wrote: > I have a 2 car garage which I've epoxied with stuff from home depot and > put up lots of pegboard. The pegboard is great and it provides so much > space I don't need a tool chest, it's great having all your tools out in the > open for easy access. I can just walk by and grab all the tools I need for > a job, and when done easily replace them. A tool chest would provide more > security though, it's not a real big worry in my neighborhood. > The epoxy stuff is great, where it's not coming up. The home depot kit > comes with a very mild acid, which I used. I also did a good job cleaning > the floor (3 times!), but it's still coming up where the tires of the car > are. Still the areas underneath the car are fine and it's great for spills > of any type. If I had to do it again I would either look for a kit with a > better acid etch or maybe some of the tile stuff which is removable, that > way you can always move it from house to house. > > han Muriatic acid. It's cheap, it sizzles, it fumes (wear gas mask and have a ton of fans blowing!), and it cleans the bejesus outa concrete. Need to rinse and scrub a few times to clean the cleaner. Dry and apply paint - good to go. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 18:57:10 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:56:01 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mike Bartman CC: Chris Weaver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Mike Bartman wrote: > At 07:40 AM 8/15/03 -0700, Chris Weaver wrote: > >Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new > >home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to > >keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > > > >I have successfully negotiated complete control of > >this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on > >what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. > >I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to > >work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. > > > >I'm thinking about: > > > >- painting the floor with epoxy paint > > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) > >- building/buying a workbench > >- building/buying heavy duty shelving > >- buying a good quality tool chest > >- installing a garage door opener (a definite) > >- putting up a big pegboard > > > >If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I > >might not have thought of, let's hear it! > > Most obvious omission: good lighting! You can't really have too > much...unless you start to tan while working out there! :^) I've got the > one 300 watt standard garage bulb in my 2-car, and it's nowhere near > enough. I use a portable halogen work light rack with two heads on it, > total 1500 watts if I turn all four bulbs on, to supplement it. It's > adequate, but not ideal. You get enough light that way, but you have to > aim it where you are working, it's hot in the summer, and the glare is > horrendous if you happen to look in its direction. A good set of > florescent tubes in an array over the ceiling is much better. > > You might want to look into that new wall stuff with the horizontal grooves > in it. It allows you to hang cabinets, workbenches, tool racks, parts bins > and whatever else you like without having to drill holes. It's stronger > than pegboard, looks 1000% better, and serves the same sort of purpose. If > you watch that show on SpeedVision where they are restoring the early model > Corvette, they used it on the walls in the dream garage. I just got a > postcard trying to sell me some and I can give you what details are on it > if you like. No idea what it costs, but I'm sure it's more than > pegboard... :^) > > Have fun! > > -- Mike Bartman flourescents = good for base overall lighting - bad for spot on work. Flourescents emit a cycle - as in 60 cps which is the standard AC wave form. Any rotating tool under a flourescent tube will appear to be stopped at any multiple of 60 cps, and guess what? Most AC tools operate at a multiple of 60 cps. Note that all new table power saws have an incadescent fixture attached for that very reason - big bro watching out for your safety. Not to mention no one ever changes flourescent tubes until the begin to show visable waves, about 24 cps. The cycle action slows as the tube degrades. BUT, eye fatigue occurs when the buggers drop to around 50 cps, a long way from noticable degradation. Back when I wuz a cartographic draftsman, the feds use to measure the tubes in our light tables and yank them at 50. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 19:10:48 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:10:39 EDT Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Why paint the floor at all? Never have gotten that one, just makes it slippery when oily, and it looks worse when the paint begins to wear. Best floor I ever had to work bikes on was an unfinished concrete that was porous as hell, spill oil on it and 24hrs. later it was gone, seeped right into the floor without leaving a mark. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 19:17:42 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:16:34 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Chris Weaver CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Chris Weaver wrote: > Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new > home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to > keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > > I have successfully negotiated complete control of > this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on > what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. > I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to > work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. > > I'm thinking about: > > - painting the floor with epoxy paint > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) > - building/buying a workbench > - building/buying heavy duty shelving > - buying a good quality tool chest > - installing a garage door opener (a definite) > - putting up a big pegboard > > If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I > might not have thought of, let's hear it! > > TIA, > Chris Weaver Yeah - 12 gauge wire, many 20amp circuits, and a gazillion recepticles, like one every 4' along the wall. I mounted mine 4' high so you can put a workbench in front of them. Workbenchs. Wood. Mine (plural) have 2X6 legs, 4 2X6s for the top, a 2X6 backsplash, and 2X4 frames. Sturdy. I scored a stainless steel bench at a fairfax county auction. It has a 1' backsplash, a 4" rolled front lip, and it's L-shaped and graded downhill! Finish a greasy, grimy task and I can hose it off and watch all the goop run downhill to a catch pan. Has a cabinet base too. Look for damaged doors for worktables. I have a 36" door on folding legs. Doors are honeycombed and don't twist or warp. I used mine as a jig table for building outboard hydroplane raceboats. Pegboard. I hung mine horizontal, bottom above the outlet array. Paint it white, paint everything white, helps with the lighting. The problem: Flat tops gather stuff. Mine have gathered STUFF! We're talking layers of STUFF!. I have a rolling toolbox combo, and two, or is it three, other toolboxes. And I have flat topped thingers fulla STUFF! Bottom line, my garage is a shithouse if the first order. Too much STUFF! Remember - Junk accumulates to fill the space available... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 19:18:58 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:14:13 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Chris Weaver CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop018.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:18:48 -0500 Chris Weaver wrote: >Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our new >home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to >keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > >I have successfully negotiated complete control of >this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas on >what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear them. >I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to >work on bikes, cars, and various household projects. > >I'm thinking about: > >- painting the floor with epoxy paint > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) >- building/buying a workbench >- building/buying heavy duty shelving >- buying a good quality tool chest >- installing a garage door opener (a definite) >- putting up a big pegboard > >If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything I >might not have thought of, let's hear it! > >TIA, >Chris Weaver > Chris, Dude, Ya' forgot the Fridge for the Beer. Better lay in a half bath too. Oops, don't forget the couch and the TV! Oh, and I forgot............ you lucky Bastage. :-) Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 19:30:11 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:25:26 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: If I lived in California, I'd vote for King Midas to be Gov.. X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Fri, 15 Aug 2003 18:30:00 -0500 ARNOLD VS. KING MIDAS? Remember the good old days before messages such as "Re: view your prize" and "RE: gec58 t rzycmoykqeuh" clogged our email boxes? Then you didn't hesitate to forward a funny email. Now, you figure, "Why be part of the problem?" Today, excuse us, because basically that is what we are doing. This message from Dave Brodrick at Manhattan's Blind Tiger Ale House, landed in our box early in the week, promoting a gathering Wednesday (sorry, it has passed). Dave is a former journalist and unpublished (as far as we know) novelist who runs the type of bar every brewer wants his beer served at. The Blind Tiger recently won the Realbeer.com Challenge Cup small bar competition. While the story Dave weaves sounds exactly like something Dogfish Head Brewing founder/owner Sam Calagione would fabricate, Sam had nothing to do with it. He only points out that Midas Touch is 9% abv, not 6%. "Dear Blind Tigerites: "We've just received word that Sam from Dogfish Head has nominated a barrel of his Midas Touch for governor of California. He easily gathered the 65 signatures necessary to get on the ballot, as everyone agreed a keg of beer could run California better than Gray Davis. When Sam made his announcement in Sacramento, he was immediately besieged by reporters. Sam assured them that nowhere in the state's constitution did it say the governor had to have arms and legs, or even a face. Once this had been confirmed, the reporters looked at the keg, which was quietly sitting beside Sam. 'This is ridiculous,' one of the reporters said. 'What do we call it?' Sam said they should address the keg as 'King Midas.' He explained how archeologists had discovered the tomb of King Midas along with his last meal. Using DNA techniques, Sam had recreated the beer Midas drank before they buried him, and it was now interested in politics. 'Unfortunately, we haven't been able to recreate King Midas himself, who is probably the only person capable of saving California,' Sam said. 'We feel his beverage is the next best thing.' "'What party is he affiliated with?' Another reporter asked. Sam explained King Midas was a candidate of the Constant Party. As far as he knew, this was the first time they had actually fielded a candidate, though they had been talking about it for years and years. "A reporter tracked down Arnold Schwarzenegger for a comment. 'I am running against a can of beer?' He said. The reporter informed Arnold he was actually running against a whole keg. 'This is what I love about America,' Arnold said. 'It is a land of opportunity, and I promise that after I kick this keg, I will make sure everyone in California has a fantastic job.' "Sam asked if they would like to taste the candidate. He passed around some cups, and pretty soon they were all agreeing that King Midas had more flavor than any of his rivals. Some wondered if he might actually have a chance. There would be a lot of people from California voting in the election and you never knew who or what they might go for. 'How strong is he?' Someone asked. Sam said he came in about 6% by volume. He claimed the toughest part of the campaign would be keeping the would-be governor at a constant 42 degrees as they traveled the state. "The timing of this controversial candidacy couldn't come at a better time for us: We're hosting a 'California's Going to the Dogs' fund raiser for the potential governor tomorrow (Wednesday the 13th) at 1 p.m., as part of our annual 'Dog Dayz of Summer' Festival. Appearing with King Midas will be Dogfish's Immort Ale and 60 Minute IPA. Tom Baker of Heavyweight will be premiering his latest edition of Old Salty Barleywine, as well as his brand new Weizenbock. We'll also have a keg of Fred from Hair of the Dog ...)B” That beer lineup looks to us like the beginning of a pretty powerful political party. ================================================== GOOD READING 'Keep Beer Real' campaign launches http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001992.php Realbeer.com Challenge Cup winners http://www.realbeer.com/challengecup Get rich fast! Drink more beer http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001997.php Banana bread beer top 'Fem-ale' http://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-001994.php Best and worst jukebox tunes for the taproom http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/6485580.htm ================================================== You have received this newsletter because I signed up for Beer Break at the Real Beer Page, and I forwarded a portion of it to you. You may manage your Real Beer newsletters at: http://realbeer.com/shared/subscribe Send your comments about the newsletter to editor@XXXXXX and make sure to stop by http://www.realbeer.com for the latest beer news and more about tasting and appreciating beer. Copyright 2003 by Real Beer Media. Feel free to distribute to friends, just keep the copyright clause intact. An archive of past issues is available at: http://www.realbeer.com/library/beerbreak From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 21:03:40 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:03:33 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: "William J. Huson" CC: Chris Weaver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? "William J. Huson" wrote: > > The problem: Flat tops gather stuff. Mine have gathered STUFF! We're > talking layers of STUFF!. I have a rolling toolbox combo, and two, or > is it three, other toolboxes. And I have flat topped thingers fulla > STUFF! Bottom line, my garage is a shithouse if the first order. Too > much STUFF! > > Remember - Junk accumulates to fill the space available... Horizontal surfaces are the culprit From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 23:04:21 2003 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 20:04:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: Anyone riding Saturday? To: DCC Anyone riding Saturday? A friend of mine is visiting from North Carolina with his Speed Triple and is looking for some locals to ride with. I sent him out to run skyline and 211 today (wish I could have gone). Send me an email if anyone is interested. Thanks, Rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 15 23:10:35 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "DCC" Subject: Anyone riding Sunday? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:09:41 -0400 With the expected rain on Saturday and my final weekend of renaissance rehearsals, would like to ride on Sunday afternoon in the Rockville area. Anyone up for a afternoon/evening ride on Sunday? Scott From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 00:00:18 2003 From: "Marc Washington" To: "S. Russell" , "DCC" Subject: Re: Anyone riding Sunday? Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:48:53 -0400 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 23:48:53 -0400 I've got a ride going out on Sunday with some folks from superbikes.com leaving from Columbia, MD. If your interested I can forward the info. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Russell" To: "DCC" Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 11:09 PM Subject: Anyone riding Sunday? > With the expected rain on Saturday and my final weekend of renaissance > rehearsals, would like to ride on Sunday afternoon in the Rockville area. > > Anyone up for a afternoon/evening ride on Sunday? > > Scott > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 07:51:15 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 07:50:54 -0400 > Horizontal surfaces are the culprit And pegboard is its' accessory after the fact ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 08:31:40 2003 Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 08:30:32 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Michael Jordan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? Michael Jordan wrote: > > Horizontal surfaces are the culprit > > And pegboard is its' accessory after the fact ;-) > > Michael J. Yes indeed! And speaking of pegboard - get the heavy duty kind with larger holes, not the thin crap with 1/8" holes. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 09:21:44 2003 Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:34:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > Yes indeed! And speaking of pegboard - get the heavy duty kind with > larger holes, not the thin crap with 1/8" holes. IMO, get a nice toolbox and cabinets. Pegboard looks messy. I'm looking to build a 2nd garage at my house. I plan to use these cabinets - http://www.gladiatorgw.com/ to house stuff like cleaning supplies and towels. I have 3 rolling toolboxes already. The Griot's Garage stuff is really nice, but very expensive. I think Home Depot has floor covering that is a lot more reasonably priced. Hot tires are usually the culprit when the epoxy lifts off the floor, so remember that when pulling in. Home Depot usually has decent sized burber (sp?) rugs that fit nicely under your car. I usually have one under my project car, since I'm always rolling around under that car. They're only $20, so they're disposable :-) My last one absorbed 4 qts of tranny fluid ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 17:01:30 2003 From: "LindaT." To: "Dc-Cycles \(Dc-Cycles\)" Cc: "Wist \(Wist\)" Subject: My trip so far... Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 17:01:06 -0400 If any one is interested, I'm currently in Friday Harbor, WA, recuperating from a coupla cracked ribs. I saw the start of the IBR and I'll be there for the end. My trip report so far is posted on my website. Click on adventures. Leon was (and is) looking good. LindaT. http://www.customtankbags.com Now - TankBags for 1800 Wings Springfield, VA (suburb of our nation's capital) AMA IBA HSTA BMWBMW 99 R1100RT Mr. Buzzy 95 F3 Purple Haze 00 KLR250 Super Sherpa Tenzing -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Edelen [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 9:35 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, William J. Huson wrote: > Yes indeed! And speaking of pegboard - get the heavy duty kind with > larger holes, not the thin crap with 1/8" holes. IMO, get a nice toolbox and cabinets. Pegboard looks messy. I'm looking to build a 2nd garage at my house. I plan to use these cabinets - http://www.gladiatorgw.com/ to house stuff like cleaning supplies and towels. I have 3 rolling toolboxes already. The Griot's Garage stuff is really nice, but very expensive. I think Home Depot has floor covering that is a lot more reasonably priced. Hot tires are usually the culprit when the epoxy lifts off the floor, so remember that when pulling in. Home Depot usually has decent sized burber (sp?) rugs that fit nicely under your car. I usually have one under my project car, since I'm always rolling around under that car. They're only $20, so they're disposable :-) My last one absorbed 4 qts of tranny fluid ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 20:02:38 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:59:04 -0400 Subject: Garage mods X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,20-21,31-32,35-37,39,41,43 From: Tom Fitzpatrick I just moved a couple of months ago. I lost about 40 square feet of garage space, going from about 480 to 440, but plan on making that up by building another 2 or 3 bay attached unit, converting the existing garage into work/storage space only. The current garage is side load, so from the front or back, the current garage will look like a breezeway to the new larger space. I had the current garage retaped/mudded and painted. Not the best job, but pretty good for a garage, and cheap. Then, I had an electrician add 9 outlet boxes, 3 per wall, each box with four regular 15 amp outlets for 36 regular outlets/plugs. Had a separate 50 amp 220 line to the garage door, and had it split 20/30 amps for a compressor and a welder. Had multiple built in fluorescent lighting units of the type in commercial garages put in. Had two big heaters with blowers put in each corner away from the door, on their own 220 lines. I am going to install air conditioning. Had a 2 inch steel clad foam core door without windows installed, and bought a pull down ladder for the attic space, which I will floor after insulating it and the walls. I finished it off by having a black and white checkerboard tile floor put in. The floor is taking more of a beating than I would like, but it still looks cool having the checkered flag effect, and it is easier to clean. I have two workbenches I bought from a welder made from 1/4 inch plate and angle iron frames that I believe would survive a direct hit from a nuclear blast. They weigh a ton. And I highly recommend Industria wire rack shelving units from Sam's, which come with castors. If you don't use the wheels, they claim to hold 600 lbs. per shelf, and given the wire construction, don't collect dust/dirt/liquids. I have had two CB400f engines, with oil, on one shelf with no sag or damage. If you use the wheels, you can back up shelving units one against the other, leaving only enough space to get to one shelving unit at a time. Everything is alarmed, a must, in my view. I gave a lot of thought to the garage. I am currently taking bids on the new garage. If anyone has any leads on quality builders for this type of project, I'd like to hear them. Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 (www.fastlanecycles.com) *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX (www.racingleather.com) *N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX (www.nbracesites.com) *Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525 mike.watt@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 16 20:31:24 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:31:14 EDT Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/15/2003 7:24:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steven.dipietro@XXXXXX writes: > Better lay in a > half bath too. A place to wash the grease off if at all possible will keep your SO happy(er) John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 17 11:39:51 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Garage mods Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:39:13 -0400 Adopt and/or marry me!!!! Michael J. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Fitzpatrick" To: Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 19:59 Subject: Garage mods > I just moved a couple of months ago. I lost about 40 square feet of > garage space, going from about 480 to 440, but plan on making that up by > building another 2 or 3 bay attached unit, converting the existing garage > into work/storage space only. The current garage is side load, so from > the front or back, the current garage will look like a breezeway to the > new larger space. > > I had the current garage retaped/mudded and painted. Not the best job, > but pretty good for a garage, and cheap. Then, I had an electrician add > 9 outlet boxes, 3 per wall, each box with four regular 15 amp outlets for > 36 regular outlets/plugs. Had a separate 50 amp 220 line to the garage > door, and had it split 20/30 amps for a compressor and a welder. Had > multiple built in fluorescent lighting units of the type in commercial > garages put in. Had two big heaters with blowers put in each corner away > from the door, on their own 220 lines. I am going to install air > conditioning. Had a 2 inch steel clad foam core door without windows > installed, and bought a pull down ladder for the attic space, which I > will floor after insulating it and the walls. I finished it off by > having a black and white checkerboard tile floor put in. The floor is > taking more of a beating than I would like, but it still looks cool > having the checkered flag effect, and it is easier to clean. > > I have two workbenches I bought from a welder made from 1/4 inch plate > and angle iron frames that I believe would survive a direct hit from a > nuclear blast. They weigh a ton. And I highly recommend Industria wire > rack shelving units from Sam's, which come with castors. If you don't > use the wheels, they claim to hold 600 lbs. per shelf, and given the wire > construction, don't collect dust/dirt/liquids. I have had two CB400f > engines, with oil, on one shelf with no sag or damage. If you use the > wheels, you can back up shelving units one against the other, leaving > only enough space to get to one shelving unit at a time. Everything is > alarmed, a must, in my view. > > I gave a lot of thought to the garage. I am currently taking bids on the > new garage. If anyone has any leads on quality builders for this type of > project, I'd like to hear them. > > Tom Fitzpatrick CCS#80'6 (www.celticracing.com) Sponsors: > *Fast Lane Cycles - fastlanecycles@XXXXXX (703)818-8890 > (www.fastlanecycles.com) > *Barnacle Bill's Racing Leathers - barnacle@XXXXXX > (www.racingleather.com) > *N&B Racing Racer Web Sites - rchapin@XXXXXX > (www.nbracesites.com) > *Janet Bell TAX Prep (belljan@XXXXXX)*Ohlins USA(828)692-4525 > mike.watt@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 17 15:22:07 2003 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:21:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom De Subject: Chain tool alternative To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hi, I'm stuck, thought my new chain had both a rivet master link and a clip type link. I only have a rivet link and no chain tool!. Is there another way to rivet the link without the tool? Or do I wait? I havn't ridden it two months! I would love to start riding again (argh!). Thanks, Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 17 20:29:01 2003 Reply-To: "S. Russell" From: "S. Russell" To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" Cc: Subject: Re: Bike nite Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:27:52 -0400 Or catch beauty in action like the lovely columbina, my true love to be. http://www.rennfest.com/mrf/photos/prev/94p11.htm September will be a good time for a bike day at the renaissance festival, hope to see you all there. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" Cc: "Rob Sharp" ; Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 1:01 AM Subject: Re: Bike nite > > > > > > > > > Rob Sharp wrote: > > > >> Can I get a giant turkey leg? > > > > Rob, > Here's proof..................... > http://www.rennfest.com/mrf/photos/prev/94p10.htm > > > Steven C. Di Pietro > > Interim National Director > > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > > http://www.soc-usa.org > > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 17 21:10:11 2003 Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Reinhardt Subject: Re: Chain tool alternative To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was in a similar situation a few months ago with my GS500. Since I already had the rear wheel off, I just took the chain to a shop to have the rivet link pressed on. I think they charged me something like $5 and it took about 2 min. I then took out the swing arm bolt, dropped the swing arm down a couple inches and fit the chain. Wasn't too time consuming and saved me from having to buy the chain tool. Adam Reinhardt --- Tom De wrote: > Hi, > I'm stuck, thought my new chain had both a rivet > master link and a clip type link. I only have a > rivet > link and no chain tool!. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 17 21:38:36 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Adam Reinhardt , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Chain tool alternative Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 20:40:12 -0500 good suggestion! I emailed Adam and tool him to just go buy a clip master link. Rob On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 18:09:09 -0700 (PDT), Adam Reinhardt wrote > I was in a similar situation a few months ago with my > GS500. Since I already had the rear wheel off, I just > took the chain to a shop to have the rivet link > pressed on. I think they charged me something like $5 > and it took about 2 min. I then took out the swing > arm bolt, dropped the swing arm down a couple inches > and fit the chain. Wasn't too time consuming and > saved me from having to buy the chain tool. > > Adam Reinhardt > > --- Tom De wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm stuck, thought my new chain had both a rivet > > master link and a clip type link. I only have a > > rivet > > link and no chain tool!. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 09:14:46 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX says CNN.com; the article mentions that the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet, and that SD law doesn't require it for adults; jib http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/17/congressman.fatal/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 09:26:30 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 06:26:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Authorities Prosecute President of Outlaws Motocycle Gang on RICO charges To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX all kinds of moto news today on cnn.com http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/17/outlaws.trial.ap/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 09:27:08 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:25:54 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Isaac Blanck CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist Isaac Blanck wrote: > says CNN.com; the article mentions that the cyclist > wasn't wearing a helmet, and that SD law doesn't > require it for adults; jib No description of what caused the accident. A similar incident occured in TN a few years ago. Politician turned left in front of a motorcycle, then he left the scene. The TN police seemd mighty slow fetching medical help, and even slower tracking down the politico who's van was clearly described by witnesses even down to the tag number. A few hours later the law showed up at the politico's home which was about two miles away. No booze test, and the man wasn't charged. Be interesting to see how this one plays out. We all joke about diplo tags as license to kill, but it seems our elected officials enjoy the same immunity... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 09:29:45 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:29:42 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Here's another account... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34144 The Argus-Leader quotes Moody County Coroner Tad Jacobs as saying his dominant impression of the accident was that "the cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That's the major thing." Jacobs characterized the collision as "a motorcyclist headed eastbound. A car ran the intersection going southbound and struck the motorcyclist," who was pronounced dead at the scene "from extensive trauma from impact." I'm just a motorist, but, the dominant impression to me is a car ran the intersection and struck the biker, killing him. I can see it now, Bill Janklow memorial highway... really stinks for the biker & family. >Subject: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >says CNN.com; the article mentions that the cyclist >wasn't wearing a helmet, and that SD law doesn't >require it for adults; jib >http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/17/congressman.fatal/in dex.html > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 09:42:20 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 9:42:13 -0400 > > From: Dave Yates > Date: 2003/08/18 Mon AM 09:29:42 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist > > Here's another account... > > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34144 > > The Argus-Leader quotes Moody County Coroner Tad Jacobs as > saying his dominant impression of the accident was that "the > cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That's the major thing." > Jacobs characterized the collision as "a motorcyclist headed > eastbound. A car ran the intersection going southbound and > struck the motorcyclist," who was pronounced dead at the > scene "from extensive trauma from impact." > > I'm just a motorist, but, the dominant impression to me is a > car ran the intersection and struck the biker, killing him. > > I can see it now, Bill Janklow memorial highway... > > > really stinks for the biker & family. > > > > >Subject: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > >says CNN.com; the article mentions that the cyclist > >wasn't wearing a helmet, and that SD law doesn't > >require it for adults; jib > >http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/17/congressman.fatal/in > dex.html > > > >__________________________________ "the > cyclist was not wearing a helmet. That's the major thing." ..uh no Mr. Coroner, the "major thing" is that the driver hit someone. How come both articles seem to focus on the fact that the motorcyclist wasn't wearing a helmet? Also, the first article didn't even mention the NAME of the guy that was killed. It was all about the the congressman and even how "distraught" he is over this. Want to feel distraught? Ask the surviving members of the guy that was killed. Not having witnessed the accident, I'm not even sure that wearing a lid would of even helped. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 10:32:15 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:31:05 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: adamme1@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist adamme1@XXXXXX wrote: > ..uh no Mr. Coroner, the "major thing" is that the driver hit someone. How come both articles seem to focus on the fact that the motorcyclist wasn't wearing a helmet? Also, the first article didn't even mention the NAME of the guy that was killed. It was all about the the congressman and even how "distraught" he is over this. > > Want to feel distraught? Ask the surviving members of the guy that was killed. Not having witnessed the accident, I'm not even sure that wearing a lid would of even helped. To be fair, a coroner or medical examner determines the means of death, which in this case was apparently head injury. It's up to the police to determine fault, but the focus on lacka helmet indicates the cops are bowing to the political power of the congressman. Justice? I think not... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 12:36:17 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:35:52 EDT Subject: Re: Congressman from SD kills motorcyclist To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/18/2003 10:32:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > a coroner or medical examner determines the means of death, which in this > case was apparently head injury. It is I think important to say that "Cause" of death I usually the _immediate_obvious_ cause of death. I do not doubt that the immediate cause of death was severe head injury, but that does NOT indicate that the rider would have survived, even for a second, if he had had on a helmet. There are far more ways then one to die when hit by a cage at speed, head injury is just the easy fast blame it on the biker one. "The head was intact. Over there." comes to mind. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 20:15:40 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:12:23 -0400 Subject: SD news paper From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles Check out www.argusleader.com I spent some time out there and I know this fool. I'll bet he violated the riders right of way. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 20:28:58 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:28:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: SD news paper To: Bob McKeithen , DC Cycles from the earlier post (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34144): Jacobs characterized the collision as "a motorcyclist headed eastbound. A car ran the intersection going southbound and struck the motorcyclist," who was pronounced dead at the scene "from extensive trauma from impact." the language used in the article ("ran the intersection") paints the picture of a clear right-of-way violation. if so, this would seem to be the reason the state is considering prosecuting its former governor. --- Bob McKeithen wrote: > Check out www.argusleader.com > > I spent some time out there and I know this fool. I'll > bet he violated the > riders right of way. > > Bob __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 21:19:42 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 21:19:21 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: Concours Owners Group , DC Cycles Subject: EUREEEEEKA!!!! I think I found it. BugSlayer has been running like crap more or less the whole trip. Intermittent, kinda like it was starving for fuel, sometimes it would be ok, sometimes the sensation would last more than a gas tank. Sometimes a rain shower made it worse, sometimes it didn't seem to affect anything. Weird. Anyway, I suspected maybe the carbs, maybe my recent rejetting job wasn't cutting the hay, maybe the petcock was clogged, maybe the junction box was funky, maybe I had a bad sparkie plug, wow, that really didn't narrow it down any, did it? So I started with the easy stuff. Pulled the jbox, found it had one broken solder joint, fixed that, put it back in, no improvement. Sigh. Gotta keep looking. Pulled the tank, pulled off the petcock, had a little rust on it, nothing major, already planned on coating the insides of the tank sometime this Fall. Cleaned it up, shot some carb cleaner through the passages just to be sure no big chunks were in there. Pulled the spark plugs. I kinda wanted to check them anyway since I had gone two sizes leaner on the main jets, just to make sure they weren't burning up in there or anything. All of 'em looked ok, nice light tan in color on the ends, but the #3 plug had just a little carbon build up. Hmmm. After I put the plugs back in and was putting the caps back on, the Great Mystery solved itself. The cap for the #3 plug just about fell off in my hand. The wire had corroded on the inside. I started snipping a little bit off the end of the wire, it was still showing signs of corrosion (think a corroded blue penny for color) about an inch up from the end. Pushed the cap back on and twisted it onto the wire, but I couldn't get it to grab onto anything. The parts bike came in handy again. New spark plug wires are in my future (and I've seen Bryan Moody's posts about the kind of wire to use from the auto parts store) but for the mean time I'm borrowing the #3 cap and wire from Priceless, my free parts bike. :) Buttoned everything back up, and said a small prayer before punching the Start button. I really, really didn't want to have to pull the carbs again so soon, and that was gonna have to be the next step. BugSlayer roared to life, and it already sounded better! I breathed a small sigh of relief. Helmet, jacket, and gloves on in a heartbeat, time to go see if the bike is healthy. 50 miles later, the answer is a resounding YES!!! So THAT's what 4 cylinders are supposed to feel like. :) I made Missoula for the Start. I made Primm, NV before limping home. I missed Lake City, FL and Buxton, Maine (but who really wanted to go there this time of year anyway, right?) but from the looks of it I'll make it back to Missoula for the Finish of the IBR. Whooowheee! Hork, on the road again, real soon -- Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth Chatty Moron #001 NRA IBA COG "I started riding away from home in '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer order to feel the sweet sensation of '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi missing it at the same time I love '82 Suzuki GS850G leaving it." - Melissa H. Pierson From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 21:29:29 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:29:06 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: anyone want a $100 rebate on some Pirelli Diablo Corsa's? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX so it turns out I won a free track day (up to $200) and a discount on some of Pirelli's new tires. Problem is two-fold: 1) Team Pro-motion under whom I have to use my winnings (track time AND tires) runs only around the east coast and while I may very well be headed back to DC from Chicago (since I can't find a bloody job here) the point remains that I would have to go to Summit Point, VIR, or Breaverun etc to take advantage of it, and 2) My trusty race-bike is a piddling GS500e which clearly doesn't run the extravagent size of tires available in the Corsa spec which is 120/70F and 180/55 or 190/50R. Assuming I can't get Pirelli to give me a coupon/rebate for the non-race-spec tires and I find myself taking a training class either of 9/20 at summit, or 11/2 or 11/16 at VIR, would anybody be interested in the tires? ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 21:37:45 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:37:33 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: SD news paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX the guy's reputation not-withstanding, the biker was headed west, not east according to Argus. Given that N/S traffic was stop-sign controlled it'll be yet another classic case of the cage driver not recognizing the motorcycle for what it was, and again a driver incapable of judging distance and speed accuratly enough to make the right go/no-go decision. Scotty, the rider probably also had his high-beams on which would also hinder cage driver perception. The offending driver may be an Ahole but sadly any driver is and does commit this common mistake. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 18 22:04:42 2003 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:03:28 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD news paper matthew patton wrote: > the guy's reputation not-withstanding, the biker was headed west, not > east according to Argus. Given that N/S traffic was stop-sign > controlled it'll be yet another classic case of the cage driver not > recognizing the motorcycle for what it was, and again a driver > incapable of judging distance and speed accuratly enough to make the > right go/no-go decision. Scotty, the rider probably also had his > high-beams on which would also hinder cage driver perception. The > offending driver may be an Ahole but sadly any driver is and does > commit this common mistake. > I'd be interested in the certified study that prompted you to claim running hi-beams hinders cage driver perception. I'm assuming you meant distance/depth perception. Seeing ( a pun?) as I have NO depth perception, I haven't noticed hi-beams confusing me as to how far away a vehicle is. My judgements are based on monocular cues. Bill - two working eyeballs, but no depth perception.... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 09:18:57 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: More on SD accident To: "William J. Huson" , matthew patton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX There's an article in today's WP, which notes that the Congressman had a stop sign and the motorcyclist didn't. Also notes that the Congressman had 12 speeding tickets in a 5 year period, but apparently stopped doing that right before he ran for his second stint in office. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11490-2003Aug18.html --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > matthew patton wrote: > > > the guy's reputation not-withstanding, the biker > was headed west, not > > east according to Argus. Given that N/S traffic > was stop-sign > > controlled it'll be yet another classic case of > the cage driver not > > recognizing the motorcycle for what it was, and > again a driver > > incapable of judging distance and speed accuratly > enough to make the > > right go/no-go decision. Scotty, the rider > probably also had his > > high-beams on which would also hinder cage driver > perception. The > > offending driver may be an Ahole but sadly any > driver is and does > > commit this common mistake. > > > > I'd be interested in the certified study that > prompted you to claim running hi-beams hinders cage > driver perception. I'm assuming > you meant distance/depth perception. Seeing ( a > pun?) as I have NO depth perception, I haven't > noticed hi-beams confusing me as to > how far away a vehicle is. My judgements are based > on monocular cues. > > Bill - two working eyeballs, but no depth > perception.... > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 09:42:48 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:42:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: SD Congressman worse driver than reported To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CNN.com reports that he's been ticketed for following too closely and had more than 12 speeding tickets. Turns out that SD's computer system only goes back to 1989, so they don't have a record of all his tickets, but in 1982 he was warned that he was in danger of losing his license. Also, CNN reports that his heavy foot is legendary w/ state employees. see http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/18/janklow.accident.ap/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 09:46:15 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:46:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: SD Congressman worse driver than reported To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I am a bit impressed that the cops in SD actually ticketed the gov. so often. I would have thought he could get out of those with a flash of his ID. --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > CNN.com reports that he's been ticketed for > following > too closely and had more than 12 speeding tickets. > Turns out that SD's computer system only goes back > to > 1989, so they don't have a record of all his > tickets, > but in 1982 he was warned that he was in danger of > losing his license. Also, CNN reports that his > heavy > foot is legendary w/ state employees. see > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/18/janklow.accident.ap/index.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 09:50:58 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:48:30 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , "William J. Huson" , matthew patton From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More on SD accident Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX More proof that we don't tend to elect those with a brain, just a nice smile or good connections... -- Mike Bartman At 06:18 AM 8/19/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >There's an article in today's WP, which notes that the >Congressman had a stop sign and the motorcyclist >didn't. Also notes that the Congressman had 12 >speeding tickets in a 5 year period, but apparently >stopped doing that right before he ran for his second >stint in office. >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11490-2003Aug18.html >--- "William J. Huson" wrote: >> matthew patton wrote: >> >> > the guy's reputation not-withstanding, the biker >> was headed west, not >> > east according to Argus. Given that N/S traffic >> was stop-sign >> > controlled it'll be yet another classic case of >> the cage driver not >> > recognizing the motorcycle for what it was, and >> again a driver >> > incapable of judging distance and speed accuratly >> enough to make the >> > right go/no-go decision. Scotty, the rider >> probably also had his >> > high-beams on which would also hinder cage driver >> perception. The >> > offending driver may be an Ahole but sadly any >> driver is and does >> > commit this common mistake. >> > >> >> I'd be interested in the certified study that >> prompted you to claim running hi-beams hinders cage >> driver perception. I'm assuming >> you meant distance/depth perception. Seeing ( a >> pun?) as I have NO depth perception, I haven't >> noticed hi-beams confusing me as to >> how far away a vehicle is. My judgements are based >> on monocular cues. >> >> Bill - two working eyeballs, but no depth >> perception.... >> > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 09:59:55 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:55:49 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman worse driver than reported At 06:42 AM 8/19/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >CNN.com reports that he's been ticketed for following >too closely and had more than 12 speeding tickets. Well, the article did say that he was "hard charging"... >Turns out that SD's computer system only goes back to >1989, so they don't have a record of all his tickets, >but in 1982 he was warned that he was in danger of >losing his license. Also, CNN reports that his heavy >foot is legendary w/ state employees. Too bad they didn't take it then. Also too bad that Scott was driving his HD, rather than his gravel delivery truck... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 10:45:47 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 07:45:08 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: SD news paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Paul Wilson wrote: > The theory is, and it's only a theory AFAIK, daytime hi-beams obscure > the > front indicators, making it difficult to judge the size of the > motorcycle, > and, therefore, it's speed and distance. I'll have to dig up the study then if I want my statement to be taken with any kind of credibility. That said my personal observations is that while the high-beams do indeed shout, "Hey, I'm here!" they don't provide the all-important depth perception to the car driver and as an avid motorcyclist I have no problem picking out bikes when driving the cage. For an admitedly extreme case drive any west bound road when the sun is setting and see if you can 1) see worth a damn 2) acurately guage distance and time to intersect. The state rep's behavior clearly has lots of precedent but even if it hadn't been the case, all those left turner accidents etc. are prodominantly because the bike profile is too narrow to give the human eye something to measure against. It's basic human physiology that unfortunately requires the brain to be engaged to overcome. > > I'd be interested in the certified study that prompted you to claim > running hi-beams hinders cage driver perception. I'm assuming > > you meant distance/depth perception. yes, distance/depth perception, not mere presence. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 11:48:12 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:47:19 -0400 To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD news paper At 07:45 AM 8/19/03 -0700, matthew patton wrote: > >The state rep's behavior clearly has lots of precedent but even if it >hadn't been the case, all those left turner accidents etc. are >prodominantly because the bike profile is too narrow to give the human >eye something to measure against. It's basic human physiology that >unfortunately requires the brain to be engaged to overcome. Very true. That's why when I'm driving, or riding, I always err on the side of caution. If I'm not certain how far something is, and as long as I'm not in front of it at the time, I choose to wait for more data before I do anything. Sometimes that means I miss a chance to go when I could have, but that's better than choosing to go when I can't make it. If I am in front of it, I get out of there as rapidly as possible. This applies whether what's coming is a bike, car, truck, train or UMO (Unidentified Moving Object). So far it's been working. 30 years of driving and I've only been hit from behind, usually while not moving much due to traffic ahead of me, and I've only hit two vehicles, both from behind, and both times based on assuming they would do the customary things under the circumstances. (car accident was a lady who took off around a left turn, then stopped in the acceleration lane with several hundred feet of open lane in front of her...I was checking for the merge. Almost got stopped anyway. Bike accident was a lady making a left turn ahead of me...I assumed she would finish and didn't start braking in time when she stopped halfway through the turn. Not really her fault...traffic had backed up due to a train crossing. I had nowhere to go (car transport to the left of her, phone pole to the right, Town Car diagonally in front of me filling the lane), so I had to stop in the space I had left...downhill on slick bumpy asphalt. *Almost* managed it...hit her at about 3 mph.). No injuries to anyone in either case, and only minimal damage to vehicles (lights and some sheet metal...and one clutch lever when the bike fell over). -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 14:29:43 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:29:32 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: Re: pegboard To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Pegboard? YES. Paint it white? YES. Cover all the inner walls with pegboard. Bill's exactly right--flat surfaces gather STUFF. You need to have a flat surface on which to work, so just have ONE very large one, and diligently clear it every day. Me pa used to trace an outline on his pegboard of the item that should be hung there. I think that's excessive, but I thought I'd mention it. d Specialized Mountain bike --- The dc-cycles list administrator wrote: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated > email discussion list > (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the > Washington D.C. area. > =( \___/ )= > \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list > is available at: > | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ > \ || || / > \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests > should be sent to: > \| |/ > dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX > |_| > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:10:39 EDT > Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Why paint the floor at all? > Never have gotten that one, just makes it slippery > when oily, and it looks > worse when the paint begins to wear. Best floor I > ever had to work bikes on was > an unfinished concrete that was porous as hell, > spill oil on it and 24hrs. > later it was gone, seeped right into the floor > without leaving a mark. > > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > > > _ _ _ > _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > (_)=='(_) > > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:16:34 -0400 > From: "William J. Huson" > To: Chris Weaver > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? > > Chris Weaver wrote: > > > Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our > new > > home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage > to > > keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > > > > I have successfully negotiated complete control of > > this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has > ideas on > > what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear > them. > > I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to > > work on bikes, cars, and various household > projects. > > > > I'm thinking about: > > > > - painting the floor with epoxy paint > > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) > > - building/buying a workbench > > - building/buying heavy duty shelving > > - buying a good quality tool chest > > - installing a garage door opener (a definite) > > - putting up a big pegboard > > > > If anyone has advice on these issues or on > anything I > > might not have thought of, let's hear it! > > > > TIA, > > Chris Weaver > > Yeah - 12 gauge wire, many 20amp circuits, and a > gazillion recepticles, > like one every 4' along the wall. I mounted mine 4' > high so you can put > a workbench in front of them. > > Workbenchs. Wood. Mine (plural) have 2X6 legs, 4 > 2X6s for the top, a > 2X6 backsplash, and 2X4 frames. Sturdy. I scored a > stainless steel > bench at a fairfax county auction. It has a 1' > backsplash, a 4" rolled > front lip, and it's L-shaped and graded downhill! > Finish a greasy, > grimy task and I can hose it off and watch all the > goop run downhill to > a catch pan. Has a cabinet base too. Look for > damaged doors for > worktables. I have a 36" door on folding legs. > Doors are honeycombed > and don't twist or warp. I used mine as a jig table > for building > outboard hydroplane raceboats. > > Pegboard. I hung mine horizontal, bottom above the > outlet array. Paint > it white, paint everything white, helps with the > lighting. > > The problem: Flat tops gather stuff. Mine have > gathered STUFF! We're > talking layers of STUFF!. I have a rolling toolbox > combo, and two, or > is it three, other toolboxes. And I have flat > topped thingers fulla > STUFF! Bottom line, my garage is a shithouse if the > first order. Too > much STUFF! > > Remember - Junk accumulates to fill the space > available... > > Bill > > > _ _ _ > _ > .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. .-.-.=\-. > .-.-.=\-. > (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) (_)=='(_) > (_)=='(_) > > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 19:14:13 -0400 > From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" > > To: Chris Weaver > CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: New Garage Ideas? > X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at > pop018.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Fri, 15 > Aug 2003 18:18:48 -0500 > > > > Chris Weaver wrote: > > >Hi everyone! Sally and I have just moved into our > new > >home and finally have a two-car, two-bike garage to > >keep our precious vehicles dry and safe. > > > >I have successfully negotiated complete control of > >this one area of the house. ;^) If anyone has ideas > on > >what I should do to the garage, I'd love to hear > them. > >I want the space to be a pleasant, useful place to > >work on bikes, cars, and various household > projects. > > > >I'm thinking about: > > > >- painting the floor with epoxy paint > > (looking into racedeck etc., but too much money) > >- building/buying a workbench > >- building/buying heavy duty shelving > >- buying a good quality tool chest > >- installing a garage door opener (a definite) > >- putting up a big pegboard > > > >If anyone has advice on these issues or on anything > I > >might not have thought of, let's hear it! > > > >TIA, > >Chris Weaver > > > Chris, > Dude, Ya' forgot the Fridge for the > Beer. Better lay in a > half bath too. Oops, don't forget the couch and the > TV! Oh, and I > forgot............ you lucky Bastage. :-) > > > Steven C. Di Pietro > Interim National Director > The Suzuki Owners Club -USA > 16 W. Jeffrey Street > Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 > http://www.soc-usa.org > 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 > 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 15:02:35 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I wonder how many miles per rear tire this thing will get? 100? :^) Looks like fun... http://www.gizmo.com.au/public/News/news.asp?articleid=2124 Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 15:36:45 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: SD: He ran the stop sign To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CNN.com reports that Congressman Janklow ran the stop sign and that his car traveled 300 feet after impact. Also, they say that his car had a black box which will indicate how fast he was going and when the brakes were applied. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/19/janklow.accident.ap/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 15:46:16 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Isaac Blanck'" , Subject: RE: He ran the stop sign Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:46:03 -0400 Those black boxes are scary. They are starting to use them in accidents (in Montgomery county they have a trial going now that is using it for the first time). Tells you the max speed before the accident and how the brakes were applied. Kind of scary if something happens and your speeding... Just because you were speeding doesn't mean it was your fault but its easy to latch onto. This email has very little to do with the below since I don't know anything about it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Isaac Blanck [mailto:thelostshark@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 3:37 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: SD: He ran the stop sign > > > CNN.com reports that Congressman Janklow ran the stop > sign and that his car traveled 300 feet after impact. > Also, they say that his car had a black box which will > indicate how fast he was going and when the brakes > were applied. > http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Central/08/19/janklow.accident.ap/i ndex.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 16:15:40 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:15:09 -0400 To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD: He ran the stop sign At 12:36 PM 8/19/03 -0700, Isaac Blanck wrote: >CNN.com reports that Congressman Janklow ran the stop >sign and that his car traveled 300 feet after impact. Guess he didn't even slow down at the stop sign... I read that this happened about 10 miles south of where he grew up. I don't think claiming that he didn't know the area is likely to work out for him... >Also, they say that his car had a black box which will >indicate how fast he was going and when the brakes >were applied. I wonder if that's a result of all his "priors"? Perhaps that's why he's been avoiding tickets the last few years? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 16:15:45 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:13:33 -0400 To: Chris Weaver , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser At 12:02 PM 8/19/03 -0700, Chris Weaver wrote: >I wonder how many miles per rear tire this thing will >get? 100? :^) Looks like fun... > >http://www.gizmo.com.au/public/News/news.asp?articleid=2124 What they say isn't strictly true though...S&S put out a 145 c.i. engine as a special deal a few months ago (that's 2376 cc). It puts out something like 186 hp, and 183 ft/lb of torque. There were four different designs incorporating this motor in the cover of Hot Bikes a couple of months ago...or maybe it was July. I don't know that they have plans to make it as a production engine, but if there's demand, I expect they will. :^) The Arlen Ness design had dual rear belts to handle the power. Looked really nice too. All the bikes had custom frames to handle the size. Info here: http://www.hotbikeweb.com/features/0307hb_tribute/ -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 17:22:24 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:10:53 -0400 rant on: arrgghh. whats with the convergent evoloution of motorcycle and car engines? 2.3l with 140 hp 147 lb/ft? this beast, though mechanically worlds apart from the 1.8l flat 6 in the goldwing and rune, leaves me asking the same question... why? aren't bike engines supposed to be more effecient, higher revving, etc etc than cages? while these engines are unique for bikes, they are getting too similar to car powerplants for my tastes. why not just bolt in a car engine then? there's tons of 4 cylinder 2.0l that do the same or better. and for that matter, there are smaller car engines with good hp too. while we're at it, lets not forget the mazda rotary... a bike powered by the new Renesis, or even the old n.a. 13b, would fly! seriously, i know it's a 3 cylinder, but a rotary is unique too. rant off: did i make sense? no? must have been that third can of coke i just finished. C. >From: Chris Weaver >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:02:28 -0700 (PDT) > >I wonder how many miles per rear tire this thing will >get? 100? :^) Looks like fun... > >http://www.gizmo.com.au/public/News/news.asp?articleid=2124 > >Chris Weaver > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 17:52:16 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:47:57 -0400 Simpsons did it, Simpsons did it... rotary engine for cage on a bike: http://www.2tausend1.de/motors/normal/VanVeen-OCR1000-1978.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~motors-20th-century/page_TVW.htm 4 cylinder cage engine on a bike: http://www.2tausend1.de/motors/normal/Munch-4TTS-1967.jpg http://home.planet.nl/~motors-20th-century/page_LM.htm BTW, is Homer Simpson the cause of black out 2003? Is Springfield in state of Ohio? --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Ozark" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 5:10 PM Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser > rant on: arrgghh. whats with the convergent evoloution of motorcycle and car > engines? 2.3l with 140 hp 147 lb/ft? this beast, though mechanically worlds > apart from the 1.8l flat 6 in the goldwing and rune, leaves me asking the > same question... why? aren't bike engines supposed to be more effecient, > higher revving, etc etc than cages? while these engines are unique for > bikes, they are getting too similar to car powerplants for my tastes. > > why not just bolt in a car engine then? there's tons of 4 cylinder 2.0l that > do the same or better. and for that matter, there are smaller car engines > with good hp too. while we're at it, lets not forget the mazda rotary... a > bike powered by the new Renesis, or even the old n.a. 13b, would fly! > > seriously, i know it's a 3 cylinder, but a rotary is unique too. > > rant off: did i make sense? no? must have been that third can of coke i just > finished. > > C. > > > >From: Chris Weaver > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:02:28 -0700 (PDT) > > > >I wonder how many miles per rear tire this thing will > >get? 100? :^) Looks like fun... > > > >http://www.gizmo.com.au/public/News/news.asp?articleid=2124 > > > >Chris Weaver > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 19:16:08 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:17:24 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Re: EUREEEEEKA!!!! At 07:00 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, The Horkster wrote: >I think I found it. >Pulled the spark plugs. I kinda wanted to check them >anyway since I had gone two sizes leaner on the main >jets, just to make sure they weren't burning up in there >or anything. All of 'em looked ok, nice light tan in color >on the ends, but the #3 plug had just a little carbon >build up. Hmmm. I was with you right up to that "#3" thingee....... >Hork, on the road again, real soon >-- >Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 19:51:31 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX wow, it actually looks 1/2 way decent. Should have gone with a single headlight, though. The bug-eye only "works" for the SpeedTriple and even then... bigger, badder, is just moronic. But hey, this is the USA where stupid low-tech cubes rule the roost. If we're talking car engines put a NSX's 1.6L in there and make that baby scream! The US market is it's own thing, separate from the rest of the sane world. ===== * Love, not time, heals all wounds. * No one is perfect until you fall in love with them. And then when they aren't perfect anymore, love makes them perfect again. * Everyone wants to live on top of the mountain, but all the happiness and growth occurs while you're climbing it * You can not forgive unless you first love. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 20:08:59 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:08:55 EDT Subject: Re: SD news paper To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Content-Language: en In a message dated 8/19/2003 10:56:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pattonme@XXXXXX writes: > I'll have to dig up the study then if I want my statement to be taken > with any kind of credibility. For what it is worth I have heard the same thing about headlights in general and high beams specifically. The one fact we should all know is that it takes parallax to see in 3 dimensions. A headlight has no sharp edges to provide that parallax. In addition with the sun at your back (in the cages eyes) the light punches a hole in your silhouette making you _harder_ to see. (Look into the setting/rising sun for bikes someday if you want proof.) Back when motorcycles had headlight switches and the debate over their use was in full flower I tried the worst street in town (for pull in front of)B’s) with my light on and with it off, many times both ways and _never_ saw any difference. The removal of headlight switches from motorcycles was a knee jerk reaction to an "obvious truth" without the research to support it. Done in good faith no doubt, but research does not support it, more research needs to be done but no one wants to do it. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 20:31:05 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:30:54 EDT Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/19/2003 5:23:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, charlieozark@XXXXXX writes: > aren't bike engines supposed to be more effecient, > higher revving, etc etc than cages? while these engines are unique for > bikes, they are getting too similar to car powerplants for my tastes. Do not look at the V-4 in a Honda ST1100 then, hell even the oil fill on the valve cover is from a car. The in-line 3/4 is a throw back to the old Harly and Indian in-line 4s of days gone by. I for one love it. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 21:51:23 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:05:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser On Tue, 19 Aug 2003, matthew patton wrote: > bigger, badder, is just moronic. But hey, this is the USA where stupid > low-tech cubes rule the roost. If we're talking car engines put a NSX's > 1.6L in there and make that baby scream! The US market is it's own > thing, separate from the rest of the sane world. Are you cutting the NSX engine in 1/2, because that's the only way you'd get 1.6L. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 22:16:41 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:31:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Cc: Subject: Dyno Results I took my Hayabusa to Champion in Herndon, VA today for Nick to do some tuning. My mods are Yosh exhaust, smallbox mod (flapper cut out, vacuum actuator removed), BMC airfilter and PC3R. My bike made 166hp/102ftlbs tq to the wheels. I put some graphs up at http://www.blueblackbusa.org/081903/ There are some comparison graphs there, showing my Bergie's factory freak 180rwhp ZX12 vs my 'Busa and another 12 and an exhaust comparison. Nick spent most of the day tuning my bike and it really made a HUGE difference. He didn't make any HP, but the driveability is better than stock! After the exhaust, the bike ran well at the top end, but sucked at part throttle. Nick literally spent 4hrs tuning part throttle and it really shows. The bike will cruise from 1500rpm-10000+ and anywhere in between at any throttle opening now. Once I get done with a few car projects, I'll be heading back to the track. :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 19 22:48:47 2003 Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:48:44 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: responding to matthew patton? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX while I may very well be headed back to DC from Chicago (since I can't find a bloody job here) --funny, I may be headed back to Cali because I can't find a bloody place to LIVE here. Apparently the fine landlords around here don't realize (or don't care) that not everyone has a gubmentjob (no offense to gubment employees.) btw..the weather is much WORSE in Chicago than here...MUCH worse. d Specialized Expedition (baby magna pending?) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:18:05 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 9:17:54 -0400 > From: Wayne Edelen > I took my Hayabusa to Champion in Herndon, VA today snip > My bike made 166hp/102ftlbs tq to the wheels. Makes the 140hp, 2.3 liter Triumph seem sort of sillly, doesn't it? Bob Meyer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:24:09 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:23:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Local Death To: DC Cycles Motorcyclist Dies After Collision With Car A Calvert County man was killed Monday night when the motorcycle he was riding collided with a car that was pulling out of a driveway and onto Stinnett Road in Huntington, Maryland State Police said. Craig Tippett, 31, of Huntington was pronounced dead at Calvert Memorial Hospital shortly after the accident, police said. They said Tippett was driving south on a 2003 Honda motorcycle when he collided with a car being driven by Mary Jane Hudson, 63. She was pulling onto Stinnett Road from a private driveway, police said. Hudson and two family members who were in the car were treated at Calvert Memorial Hospital and released. The crash was still being investigated yesterday. ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:31:01 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:30:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Local Death To: Jeannette Zell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX True. But if my imagination is correct, the driver pulled out into traffic and the bike did hit her. Probably her fault yes? Unless he was going very very fast. --- Jeannette Zell wrote: > Why is it always that the motorcyclist "collides > with" the car, when in fact > it's usually the car colliding with the bike? *sigh* > > - Jeannette > '86 VFR 700 F2 > http://www.gingerdc9.com > > > >From: Mark Kitchell > >To: DC Cycles > >Subject: Local Death > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:23:51 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Motorcyclist Dies After Collision With Car > > > >A Calvert County man was killed Monday night when > the > >motorcycle he was riding collided with a car that > was > >pulling out of a driveway and onto Stinnett Road in > >Huntington, Maryland State Police said. > > > >Craig Tippett, 31, of Huntington was pronounced > dead > >at Calvert Memorial Hospital shortly after the > >accident, police said. They said Tippett was > driving > >south on a 2003 Honda motorcycle when he collided > with > >a car being driven by Mary Jane Hudson, 63. She was > >pulling onto Stinnett Road from a private driveway, > >police said. > > > >Hudson and two family members who were in the car > were > >treated at Calvert Memorial Hospital and released. > The > >crash was still being investigated yesterday. > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus > scan at McAfee.com. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:38:09 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:38:01 -0400 hehe, well sorta :-) And you can bet that the numbers they're advertising are at the crank, so rwhp/tq would be less. What are the drivetrain losses for a typical chain drive bike with wet clutch? 10%? -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Bob Meyer > My bike made 166hp/102ftlbs tq to the wheels. Makes the 140hp, 2.3 liter Triumph seem sort of sillly, doesn't it? Bob Meyer -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:39:58 2003 From: "Jeannette Zell" To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Local Death Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:00 -0400 Why is it always that the motorcyclist "collides with" the car, when in fact it's usually the car colliding with the bike? *sigh* - Jeannette '86 VFR 700 F2 http://www.gingerdc9.com >From: Mark Kitchell >To: DC Cycles >Subject: Local Death >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:23:51 -0700 (PDT) > >Motorcyclist Dies After Collision With Car > >A Calvert County man was killed Monday night when the >motorcycle he was riding collided with a car that was >pulling out of a driveway and onto Stinnett Road in >Huntington, Maryland State Police said. > >Craig Tippett, 31, of Huntington was pronounced dead >at Calvert Memorial Hospital shortly after the >accident, police said. They said Tippett was driving >south on a 2003 Honda motorcycle when he collided with >a car being driven by Mary Jane Hudson, 63. She was >pulling onto Stinnett Road from a private driveway, >police said. > >Hudson and two family members who were in the car were >treated at Calvert Memorial Hospital and released. The >crash was still being investigated yesterday. > > > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 09:42:40 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Jeannette Zell'" , , Subject: RE: Local Death Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:42:19 -0400 Not really. If a car pulls out in front of a MC, the MC still collides with the car. Doesn't mean it's the MC's fault. If I pull out in front of a train in my car, it's the train that collides with me even though I'm the dumbass that pulled in front of it. Since in almost all MC accidents, the MC is pointed at the vehicle when it happens, the MC collided with that vehicle. Doesn't mean that it isn't the car's fault in almost all the cases... -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeannette Zell [mailto:gingerdc9@XXXXXX] > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 9:28 AM > To: markkitchell@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Local Death > > > Why is it always that the motorcyclist "collides with" the > car, when in fact > it's usually the car colliding with the bike? *sigh* > > - Jeannette > '86 VFR 700 F2 > http://www.gingerdc9.com > > > >From: Mark Kitchell > >To: DC Cycles > >Subject: Local Death > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:23:51 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Motorcyclist Dies After Collision With Car > > > >A Calvert County man was killed Monday night when the > >motorcycle he was riding collided with a car that was > >pulling out of a driveway and onto Stinnett Road in > >Huntington, Maryland State Police said. > > > >Craig Tippett, 31, of Huntington was pronounced dead > >at Calvert Memorial Hospital shortly after the > >accident, police said. They said Tippett was driving > >south on a 2003 Honda motorcycle when he collided with > >a car being driven by Mary Jane Hudson, 63. She was > >pulling onto Stinnett Road from a private driveway, > >police said. > > > >Hudson and two family members who were in the car were > >treated at Calvert Memorial Hospital and released. The > >crash was still being investigated yesterday. > > > > > > > >===== > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at > McAfee.com. > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:34:27 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:33:54 EDT Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:19:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > Makes the 140hp, 2.3 liter Triumph seem sort of sillly, doesn't it? Tractors outlast sports cars. For some it is about power, for others it is the look, feel, or some other intangible. I for one could give a shit about power, I just want enough to deal with cages, and damn near every bike out there can do that. I for one _really_ want to ride that puppy. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:37:56 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:37:44 EDT Subject: Re: Local Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:31:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > Probably her fault yes? Unless he was going very very > fast. I was her fault regardless of his speed, clothing, headlight on/off or anything else. _She_ pulled out in front of him and killed him, no shared blame, no mitigating factors, end of story. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:44:37 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: , Subject: RE: Local Death Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:43:51 -0400 Bullshit. The speed limit is set because it's the maximum speed that is safe based on the conditions which includes the fact that there are driveways on the road. If the speed limit was 40 and he was going 60-70mph, I'm not sure if I would say it was here fault. I have a driveway at my kid's day care that I pull out of everyday. Its almost impossible to see around the corner just 30 feet away of so. The speed limit is 30. If people are going faster than 30 and I pull out at the same time they come around that corner they need to brake and I need to get on the gas. You come around there at 60mph on your MC and you just hit my car... -Jim PS Just an opinion, I wouldn't classify myself as someone that follows speed limits very well, but I think we have to be aware of the fact that roads that have driveways can be pretty ugly at speed... > > I was her fault regardless of his speed, clothing, headlight > on/off or > anything else. > _She_ pulled out in front of him and killed him, no shared blame, no > mitigating factors, end of story. > > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:45:20 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:45:06 EDT Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:38:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wayne@XXXXXX writes: > What are the drivetrain losses for a typical chain drive bike with wet > clutch? 10%? Irrelevant. There should be no power loss through the clutch itself wet or dry. Most power loss is through friction, bearings, gear to gear, fluid drag, tire deflection, and lordy knows what else. But a clutch in the fully engaged position creates no friction, the plates are locked together. As for the weight of the clutch that simply adds to the necessary flywheel effect to keep everything running. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:45:37 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:45:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Local Death To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmmmm...2003 Honda. Lets say its a 954. There is a hill about 1/8 of a mile from her driveway and bike is coming from that direction. So she can only see 'all clear' for 1/8 mile. As Honda goes up that hill, biker hits it hard. As he comes down the hill he is going 60 and increasing fast. She pulls out before he becomes visible. Rocket crests hill and cannot stop in time, hitting her car. Thats his fault. Not that simple. --- PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:31:23 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > Probably her fault yes? Unless he was going very > very > > fast. > > I was her fault regardless of his speed, clothing, > headlight on/off or > anything else. > _She_ pulled out in front of him and killed him, no > shared blame, no > mitigating factors, end of story. > > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not > careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 11:46:52 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:46:17 EDT Subject: Re: Local Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 12:17:46 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:17:47 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) At 11:45 AM 8/20/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:38:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >wayne@XXXXXX writes: > >> What are the drivetrain losses for a typical chain drive bike with wet >> clutch? 10%? > >Irrelevant. There should be no power loss through the clutch itself wet or >dry. Most power loss is through friction, bearings, gear to gear, fluid drag, You just contradicted yourself, didn't you? You said no power loss, even for a wet clutch, then you say there can be loss from fluid drag... When the plates lock up, there's no frictional loss there, but then the whole mess is spinning in a liquid bath...that's got to create some turbulence, and thus eat some power, right? "Big whorls have little whorls, That feed on their velocity, And little whorls still littler whorls... And so on to viscosity!" -- Some fluid dynamics prof >As for the weight >of the clutch that simply adds to the necessary flywheel effect to keep >everything running. Right, so at a constant speed, it's not a problem. However when you accelerate, it will eat some power to get up to speed...angular momentum isn't free. Don't know whether that gets measured in the dyno tests or not though. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 12:17:54 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:10:47 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Local Death At 11:37 AM 8/20/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:31:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > >> Probably her fault yes? Unless he was going very very >> fast. > >I was her fault regardless of his speed, clothing, headlight on/off or >anything else. >_She_ pulled out in front of him and killed him, no shared blame, no >mitigating factors, end of story. Not exactly true if you ask me. In almost all cases you are correct, however I could easily see a situation where she was not negligent at all, obeyed every law, and *his* lawbreaking was the proximate cause of the accident. [Note: There's nothing I'm aware of to indicate that this was the case here, so this is just hypothetical.] For instance, if the total distance she could see approaching traffic was limited by the construction of the road or other factors (curves, buildings, etc.) beyond her control, and if this situation was normally not a problem due to the speed limits set on the section of road in question (i.e. at the speed limit a vehicle would be visible far enough in advance to allow avoiding a collision), but the biker was moving at a speed greater than the limit, and thus came into view too late for collision avoidance, it would be the biker's fault, not hers. She is supposed to yeild right of way to all traffic on the road...but the traffic on the road is also supposed to be obeying the laws, and thus giving her a reasonable chance to do so. If she didn't yeild when she could have, it's her fault. If he made it impossible for her to yeild, such as by excessive speed, then it's his fault. If both were obeying the law and the design of the road made an accident unavoidable, then it's the traffic engineer's fault. You should always ride/drive in such a way as to be able to stop in the space you can see ahead of you. If you don't do that, you are taking a risk of collision if an obstruction suddenly appears (fallen rocks, stopped train, whatever). Now, if he was at or below the speed limit, the road was properly designed to allow sufficient visibility, and she "didn't see him" when she pulled out, nail her. -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 12:37:02 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:36:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: Re: Rotary engines (was Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser) To: DCC Wow. Never heard of a Van Veen. I saw a Hercules rotary bike being ridden around the Mid Ohio Vintage Daze campground last year. Weird looking thing. Maybe it's just me, but when I think of rotary bikes, I think of Nortons. Oh yeah, and the Suzuki too. Here's a neat little list: http://www.monito.com/wankel/motorcycles.html Rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 13:20:41 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:20:34 -0400 > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:19:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > > > Makes the 140hp, 2.3 liter Triumph seem sort of sillly, doesn't it? > > Tractors outlast sports cars. > For some it is about power, for others it is the look, feel, or some other > intangible. I for one could give a shit about power, I just want enough to deal > with cages, and damn near every bike out there can do that. I for one _really_ > want to ride that puppy. My comment isn't so much to do with the amount of power, but the need to go to 2300 honking cc's to get it. Hell, that engine's as big as (or bigger than) the ones in half the cars I've owned. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 13:28:32 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:20:58 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: hand signals? Greetings, OK- I classify myself as a new rider - I've taken the MSF class, I know who to wave to (*grin*) (http://www.travelingbikers.com/humor.html ) I know how to signal left/right by hand - but I'm sure I'm missing something. The other day, riding up rt 270N, I waved at a guy heading south and he looked at me and rapped on his helmet twice. Huh. Was he really signaling something to his buddy behind him? Is he telling me my chin strap is loose? Nope - tight. I pass an officer pulling over HOV scofflaws. Maybe that? Probably not...Traffic rots in the regular lanes. Is he saying there's an accident up ahead? Well, there is one a few miles up - but way on the other side of the road - and that's not what's holding up traffic. When I get home, I'm told I just missed a small hail storm. Was he telling me about that? What other informal signals should I know about? On a minor rant, I'm stuck waiting for parts again. Last month the bike died while at a stop light as I put it in gear. Everything *looked* ok but once we dragged it back home and we checked it over with a meter, we found a bad bus-fuse. (melted inside the metal area where you couldn't see.) New fuse and I'm fine. Last week, the horn fell off, dangled by one wire, and started melting on the pipes. When I tied it up with some string, temporarily, it would ground on the frame and honk at random people :) Yesterday a throttle cable broke a mile from work. I coasted to a halt and walked the rest of the way. New cable comes in Friday. Maybe a stretchy cable -- ready to break -- is why I thought I didn't have much 'oomph' ? Or should I check over my ignition or carbs? Thanks Erick 74' CB-750 K4 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 13:40:02 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:37:03 -0400 To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) At 01:20 PM 8/20/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >My comment isn't so much to do with the amount of power, but the need to go to 2300 honking cc's to get it. Hell, that engine's as big as (or bigger than) the ones in half the cars I've owned. Displacement's a whole different ball game with a Wankel. I'm not even sure how they measure it...is it the entire volume of the "chamber", minus the volume of the rotor, or is it just the volume of the area involved in combustion at max compression, or what? Maybe the average volume of the area between one face of the rotor and the case? At 2300 cc's for a bike engine I'm guessing it's the whole "chamber" volume, minus the rotor volume, but if the rotor isn't solid, that's going to include some "dead space". If it's the entire chamber, then there's no easy way to compare it to a piston engine displacement-wise...though including the crankcase volume from a 2-stroke along with the area above the piston might be close. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 13:51:57 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:51:35 EDT Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 12:17:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > You just contradicted yourself, didn't you? You said no power loss, even > for a wet clutch, then you say there can be loss from fluid drag... Not really. Yes there is some fluid drag (good catch by the way, I chose to ignore it) but it is small and the loss is not due to the mechanical action of the clutch itself. The clutch does not run immersed in oil it is just wet and splashes a bit. The main loss of power at that point would be from the crank to clutch reduction gears and they have to be there clutch or no clutch. Anyhow the loss is no where near the %10 mentioned in the post. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 13:58:17 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:57:55 EDT Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 12:17:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > Right, so at a constant speed, it's not a problem. However when you > accelerate, it will eat some power to get up to speed.. Sorry about making two posts in reply to one. Yes BUT! As I stated you still must have flywheel, the fact that the clutch serves that function is irrelevant to its true function, the mass would still need to be there and it would still affect acceleration so I do not "blame" it on the clutch. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:00:51 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: RE: Local Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Not really. If a car pulls out in front of a MC, the MC > still collides > with the car. Doesn't mean it's the MC's fault. If I > pull out in front > of a train in my car, it's the train that collides with > me even though > I'm the dumbass that pulled in front of it. Not really. Collide: 1 : to come together with solid or direct impact To "collide" does not imply motion or fault. If A collides with B, then B also collides with A. It's a mutual activity. Collide is not a synonym for "hit", "run into", "ram", or "crash into"." -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:01:50 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:01:36 -0400 Subject: Re: hand signals? From: Steve Miller To: Tapping the top of the helmet means "cop ahead." Welcome to the world of motorcycling! - Steve on 8/20/03 12:20 PM, Erick Singley at es87m@XXXXXX wrote: > Greetings, > > OK- I classify myself as a new rider - I've taken the MSF class, I > know who to wave to (*grin*) > (http://www.travelingbikers.com/humor.html ) I know how to signal > left/right by hand - but I'm sure I'm missing something. > > The other day, riding up rt 270N, I waved at a guy heading south and > he looked at me and rapped on his helmet twice. Huh. Was he really > signaling something to his buddy behind him? Is he telling me my chin > strap is loose? Nope - tight. I pass an officer pulling over HOV > scofflaws. Maybe that? Probably not...Traffic rots in the regular > lanes. Is he saying there's an accident up ahead? Well, there is one > a few miles up - but way on the other side of the road - and that's > not what's holding up traffic. When I get home, I'm told I just > missed a small hail storm. Was he telling me about that? > > What other informal signals should I know about? > > > On a minor rant, I'm stuck waiting for parts again. Last month the > bike died while at a stop light as I put it in gear. Everything > *looked* ok but once we dragged it back home and we checked it over > with a meter, we found a bad bus-fuse. (melted inside the metal area > where you couldn't see.) New fuse and I'm fine. > > Last week, the horn fell off, dangled by one wire, and started > melting on the pipes. When I tied it up with some string, > temporarily, it would ground on the frame and honk at random people :) > > Yesterday a throttle cable broke a mile from work. I coasted to a > halt and walked the rest of the way. New cable comes in Friday. Maybe > a stretchy cable -- ready to break -- is why I thought I didn't have > much 'oomph' ? Or should I check over my ignition or carbs? > > Thanks > Erick > > 74' CB-750 K4 > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:03:42 2003 From: "Herb Manell" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: Herb@XXXXXX Subject: Harley Davidson Festivities on the DC Mall X-IPAddress: 192.91.147.35 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:04:34 -0700 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host48.ipowerweb.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32427 32427] / [32427 32427] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host48.ipowerweb.com Hi all- FYI: Big Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary festivities being set up today on the Mall in front of the Capital Building. Runs tomorrow Aug. 22nd from 12 noon to 7pm. Band-booths-freebies. Check it out. Don't own a HD but I'll give them their Day. Herb Herb@XXXXXX > --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > > __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list > (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. > =( \___/ )= > \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: > | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ > \ || || / > \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: > \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX > |_| > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:05:45 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:03:28 -0400 To: Erick Singley , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: hand signals? At 12:20 PM 8/20/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >Greetings, > >OK- I classify myself as a new rider - I've taken the MSF class, I >know who to wave to (*grin*) >(http://www.travelingbikers.com/humor.html ) I know how to signal >left/right by hand - but I'm sure I'm missing something. I'm sure we're all missing something. :^) Thanks for the link...funny stuff! >The other day, riding up rt 270N, I waved at a guy heading south and >he looked at me and rapped on his helmet twice. Hmmm...I'll vote for the hailstorm warning. Never seen that one myself. Wait, was his hand open or closed? Closed I'd still go with the hailstorm thing, but open is sometimes a signal to slow down...in which case probably a warning about the cop. >What other informal signals should I know about? Various clubs have signals for group rides...they usually teach the new folks about them though, so don't worry now. There are a few good ones to know though: o Right hand on back pocket: "I'm headed to the dealership for service." o Arms wrapped around gas tank: "I will NEVER forget my gloves in February again!" o Both hands on left grip: "I think my hydraulic clutch is leaking." o Looking away and pretending not to see you: "Your bike is much nicer than mine! I'm jealous!" o Hand in a fist, except the middle finger, which is extended and aimed upwards: "I'm gay and I'm looking for a new friend..." Hope that helps! >On a minor rant, I'm stuck waiting for parts again. Last month the >bike died while at a stop light as I put it in gear. Everything >*looked* ok but once we dragged it back home and we checked it over >with a meter, we found a bad bus-fuse. (melted inside the metal area >where you couldn't see.) New fuse and I'm fine. Any idea why the fuse melted? Got shorts? >Last week, the horn fell off, dangled by one wire, and started >melting on the pipes. When I tied it up with some string, >temporarily, it would ground on the frame and honk at random people :) An auto-horn? Cool! Around here, anyone you honk at probably needs it. >Yesterday a throttle cable broke a mile from work. I coasted to a >halt and walked the rest of the way. New cable comes in Friday. Maybe >a stretchy cable -- ready to break -- is why I thought I didn't have >much 'oomph' ? Or should I check over my ignition or carbs? Given the vintage of your bike, and the apparent state of repair, perhaps you should? Check the battery cables for corrosion too. In fact, you might want to get a manual and go over everything, just to be sure? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:08:22 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:08:11 EDT Subject: Re: Local Death To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 12:18:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > You should always ride/drive in such a way as to be able to stop in the > space you can see ahead of you. If you don't do that, you are taking a > risk of collision if an obstruction suddenly appears Damn straight!!! I could not agree more on that point. My problem is the idea of shared blame. We have to be _extremely_ careful on that one because there are those out there who think the fact that we ride "those damn dangerous" motorcycles makes us partially to blame for any accident we are involved in. "If he/she had been in a nice safe car...." Or "I did not see the motorcycle" implying that if the rider had been in a car... The bottom line for me is that we have to be very careful not to allow people who hurt us to blame us because of what we choose to drive. There are plenty of people out there who are willing to do that for us. Lets not help them. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:09:49 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:08:27 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) At 01:51 PM 8/20/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 8/20/2003 12:17:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> You just contradicted yourself, didn't you? You said no power loss, even >> for a wet clutch, then you say there can be loss from fluid drag... > >Not really. >Yes there is some fluid drag (good catch by the way, I chose to ignore it) Ok...(thanks! I try to read carefully when someone seems to know more than I do! :^) >but it is small and the loss is not due to the mechanical action of the clutch >itself. The clutch does not run immersed in oil it is just wet and splashes a >bit. The main loss of power at that point would be from the crank to clutch >reduction gears and they have to be there clutch or no clutch. >Anyhow the loss is no where near the %10 mentioned in the post. I thought the 10% was for the entire chain of stuff, from engine output shaft to the rear wheel? I.e. you measure the engine alone, then you measure the whole bike at the rear tire contact point and compare. I could see 10% loss for some bikes, though I'd sort of expect that to drop as HP goes up...or does the loss from chain, gears, fluids, rubber flex, etc. go up with HP too? Some of it is likely to be speed-related too, isn't it? Anything that's in open air for instance will get variable drag depending on how fast it's moving through the air? Just enough knowledge to be dangerous.... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:13:50 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:13:51 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Local Death At 02:08 PM 8/20/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >My problem is the idea of shared blame. We have to be _extremely_ careful on >that one because there are those out there who think the fact that we ride >"those damn dangerous" motorcycles makes us partially to blame for any accident >we are involved in. "If he/she had been in a nice safe car...." Or "I did not >see the motorcycle" implying that if the rider had been in a car... >The bottom line for me is that we have to be very careful not to allow people >who hurt us to blame us because of what we choose to drive. There are plenty >of people out there who are willing to do that for us. Lets not help them. I agree with you. Can I use their argument when we hit while I'm in my Grand Cherokee? After all, if they hadn't been in that little econo-box, but in a good solid SUV... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:15:00 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:14:40 EDT Subject: Re: Rotary engines (was Triumph Announces 140bhp 2.3 Liter Cruiser) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 12:37:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, iefbr142000@XXXXXX writes: > when I think of rotary bikes, > I think of Nortons. Oh yeah, and the Suzuki too. Got a ticket on a Suzuki rotary once. (likely the first ticket on one in FL, maybe the first in the country #:-/> ) And I have worked on them and even one of the Hercules. In fact I believe that if Suzuki had come out with a rotary as simple as the Hercules instead of the complex nightmare of the RE5 they could have sold the shit out of them. (I want one of each in my dream collection.) Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:36:26 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:35:51 -0400 My question was specifically *DRIVETRAIN LOSS*. There is a significant loss getting power from the crank to the rear wheel. I thought there would be more loss because of the fluid involved in a wet clutch, but the fact remains that there is a significant loss, wet clutch or not. Obviously the only way to determine the loss is an engine dyno, then a chassis dyno and compare the numbers. So back to my original question edited as to avoid a wet vs. dry discussion ;-), "What are the drivetrain losses for a typical chain drive bike with (any) clutch?". :-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Anyhow the loss is no where near the %10 mentioned in the post. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 14:56:35 2003 From: "Herb Manell" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Reply-To: Herb@XXXXXX Subject: Fw: Harley Davidson Festivities on the DC Mall X-IPAddress: 192.91.147.35 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:57:23 -0700 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host48.ipowerweb.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - dc-cycles.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32427 32427] / [32427 32427] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - host48.ipowerweb.com Harley Davidson Festivities on the DC Mall ***Correction: Thursday, August *21st* noon to 7pm*** ------------- Forwarded message follows ------------- Hi all- FYI: Big Harley Davidson 100th Anniversary festivities being set up today on the Mall in front of the Capital Building. Runs tomorrow Aug. 22nd from 12 noon to 7pm. Band-booths-freebies. Check it out. Don't own a HD but I'll give them their Day. Herb Herb@XXXXXX > --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > > __ /-----\ __ 'dc-cycles' is an unmoderated email discussion list > (__\/ _____ \/__) about motorcycling in the Washington D.C. area. > =( \___/ )= > \ ___ / An archive of the dc-cycles list is available at: > | / _ \ | http://www.dc-cycles.org/ > \ || || / > \|| ||/ Subscribe/unsubscribe requests should be sent to: > \| |/ dc-cycles-digest-request@XXXXXX > |_| > Herb@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 15:23:46 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: tdeboeser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Chain tool alternative Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:12:07 -0400 I know this is late, but I'm just catching up on email now. The last time I put a new chain on the VFR, I had broken my chain breaker (yes, the irony, I know) so using it to mushroom out the caps was not an option. Having to leave the next morning, I got a little MacGyver (?sp) on it by "gluing" (using some axle grease) a couple BB's on the ends of the caps and then squeezing the hell out of that link with a pair of vise grip pliers. Caps mushroomed out, and now 7K+ miles later, no worries. Just a suggestion....NOT a recommendation. YMMV. Yadda yadda yadda. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Tom De To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Chain tool alternative Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Hi, I'm stuck, thought my new chain had both a rivet master link and a clip type link. I only have a rivet link and no chain tool!. Is there another way to rivet the link without the tool? Or do I wait? I havn't ridden it two months! I would love to start riding again (argh!). Thanks, Tom de '98 VTR _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 15:30:49 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Rotary engines Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:30:35 -0400 now i'm no enjuneer or nothing, but the more i learn about rotaries the more i think they should be used in a hybrid bike - a la the boss hoss, but a way more down to earth scale. it seems the engine characteristics would be a great match for a sport tourer. consider a normally aspirated 13b (from a second genration rx7) with mild work, and no accesories: -hp like an inline 4, 200+hp? at crank (160ish was OEM i think) -torque like a v-twin, (654cc x2), 160 ft/lbs at crank (140ish was OEM i think) -redline = 8500-9000? plus AFAIK, it's a lightweight , compact engine, with no valvetrain/few moving parts. it has good part availablitly. possibly less vibration. good concentrated mass. so, lets hear it, what are the problems? and who wants to be the first to shoe-horn one into a stripped down goldwing? -C. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 15:56:19 2003 From: "Laura Roach" To: Subject: AMA at VIR Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:19:13 -0400 August 29th-31st....who's going? LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 16:02:38 2003 From: "Dan Thompson" To: "Dc-Cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: AMA at VIR Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 16:05:20 -0400 Me! I finally get to go to a race this year... Danny '78 FJ40 '02 FZ1 '02 XR250R CSBA #150 TLCA #13436 -----Original Message----- From: Laura Roach [mailto:laura@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:19 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: AMA at VIR August 29th-31st....who's going? LAR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 17:12:12 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:11:33 -0400 To: "Charlie Ozark" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Rotary engines At 03:30 PM 8/20/03 -0400, Charlie Ozark wrote: >so, lets hear it, what are the problems? and who wants to be the first to >shoe-horn one into a stripped down goldwing? I'm not an engineer, or even a mechanic, so I'm just guessing here, but I'd at least want to consider gyroscopic effects from that big rotor spinning at high speeds and how that might affect turns and handling in general. I also seem to remember some of the early Mazda engines having problems with rotor seals (the equivalent of piston rings) and thus requiring major engine work at young ages. Don't know if they worked that out out or not. Other than that, the Wankel design seems like a pretty good one, if you can get the specific engineering problems worked out well enough. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 17:19:00 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Rotary engines On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > I also seem to remember some of the early Mazda engines having problems > with rotor seals (the equivalent of piston rings) and thus requiring major > engine work at young ages. Don't know if they worked that out out or not. > > Other than that, the Wankel design seems like a pretty good one, if you can > get the specific engineering problems worked out well enough. The new Mazda RX-8 uses a 1.3L dual rotor design making 250hp naturally aspirated. Anemic for a 4 wheel vehicle of it's size, but adequate for a motorcycle :-) AFAIK, the rotor (apex?) seal problem is a thing of the past. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 20:47:43 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Rotary engines Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:49:18 -0500 250 HP for a small car is plenty of power for me :) I have a 120 HP I4 in my S10 and it's anemic, but the 5 spd makes it a bit more fun. Thank God the lease is up Oct.. Rob "Getting Rid of his 4cyl S10 for a V6 one sooner than later" Sharp On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:33:27 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > > I also seem to remember some of the early Mazda engines having problems > > with rotor seals (the equivalent of piston rings) and thus requiring major > > engine work at young ages. Don't know if they worked that out out or not. > > > > Other than that, the Wankel design seems like a pretty good one, if you can > > get the specific engineering problems worked out well enough. > > The new Mazda RX-8 uses a 1.3L dual rotor design making 250hp naturally > aspirated. Anemic for a 4 wheel vehicle of it's size, but adequate > for a motorcycle :-) > > AFAIK, the rotor (apex?) seal problem is a thing of the past. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 21:33:12 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:32:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Rotary engines From: Stephen Miller To: The Suzuki rotary-powered bikes were kinda heavy. Anyway, it never caught on, probably because the ratio of performance-to-cost wasn't all that great. http://www.monito.com/wankel/suzuki.html on 8/20/03 3:30 PM, Charlie Ozark at charlieozark@XXXXXX wrote: > now i'm no enjuneer or nothing, but the more i learn about rotaries the more > i think they should be used in a hybrid bike - a la the boss hoss, but a way > more down to earth scale. it seems the engine characteristics would be a > great match for a sport tourer. consider a normally aspirated 13b (from a > second genration rx7) with mild work, and no accesories: > > -hp like an inline 4, 200+hp? at crank (160ish was OEM i think) > -torque like a v-twin, (654cc x2), 160 ft/lbs at crank (140ish was OEM i > think) > -redline = 8500-9000? > > plus AFAIK, it's a lightweight , compact engine, with no valvetrain/few > moving parts. it has good part availablitly. possibly less vibration. good > concentrated mass. > > so, lets hear it, what are the problems? and who wants to be the first to > shoe-horn one into a stripped down goldwing? > > -C. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 22:33:25 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:33:09 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: DC Parking Fables Part One To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Okay, so I work in a hotel. A guest just came to me, perplexed: "I have a question about the parking signs..." He's staring at me. I cringe, grinding my fingernails into my palms. "...yes?" "They say 'Two Hour Parking 7:00 to 8:30. That doesn't make any sense." I'm now staring at him. "That's only an hour and a half." It's probably not taking you, the reader, as long to digest this as it did me, but suddenly I could see before my eyes not just THIS play on signage but all the wee pitfalls and sandtraps that DC has founded its parking revenue upon. I was struck dumb. "It's 7:00 AM to 8:30 PM," I told him, finally. It took a few minute to get this one through the skull. Our hotel charges $19 per night for parking. My coworker says we're "baptizing" the newcomers to DC. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 22:54:38 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:07:51 -0400 To: Mike Bartman , "William J. Huson" From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX At 03:31 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 02:53 PM 8/14/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: > >Bob Meyer wrote: > > > >> Headlight modulators vary the brightness of the headlight (generally the >high > > >Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute >winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes >do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) > >Using a modulator might help the bulbs last longer...with the filaments off >part of the time they aren't going to be as easy to break from vibrations. >Might be worth a test. > >I'm planning to get a Harley as soon as the local dealer gets some '04s in >stock...I'll look into modulators ASAP...right after I get the foot >controls usable! :^) Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this thread. I've been swamped, and haven't touched the home PC is more than a few days. I'd just like to clarify one thing. A headlight modulator doesn't actually turn the filaments to full off. It reduces the brightness (to about 25% IIRC). To actually switch them on and off would be a flasher, which is illegal except for emergency vehicles. And yes, some manufactures claim the modulator does increase bulb life. I can't vouch for that, but certainly haven't noticed any decrease in life. HTH, Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 22:54:38 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:09:00 -0400 To: Larry Larson From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 01:48 PM 8/14/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >--- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > The brand I put in my 919 is from comagination, and is > > quite a bit cheaper than the other ones I've used / seen. > > It's compact, easy to install, and works. > >Very interesting -- I just ordered their combo pack with >the brake flasher for my 919 yesterday. Did you get the >brake flasher too? Any installation glitches on either? > >Thanks -- Larry Sorry for the delay in responding. No, I didn't do the taillight. I have a set of hyperlights instead. And no installation glitches for the modulator at all. Very quick and easy install. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 20 23:56:34 2003 Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:56:34 -0400 To: Bob Meyer , "William J. Huson" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Car vs. MC . . . headlight modulators Cc: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX, MLynch@XXXXXX At 10:07 PM 8/20/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: >At 03:31 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >>Using a modulator might help the bulbs last longer...with the filaments off >>part of the time they aren't going to be as easy to break from vibrations. >>Might be worth a test. >A headlight modulator doesn't actually turn the >filaments to full off. It reduces the brightness (to about 25% IIRC). That should still help increase the filament life. Less bright means cooler, means stronger, means less prone to vibration breakage and generally longer life. I've got dimmers on a lot of the lights around my house. By lowering the brightness even 20% I get much longer bulb life. I once found a chart showing the relationship, but I have no idea where it was now. It seemed to indicate that you could almost double the life of the bulb with a 10% reduction in brightness. A quick search turned up this: How Does A Lutron Dimmer Affect Bulb Life? Lutron dimmers will extend the life of a typical incandescent bulb by as much as 20 times the rated life! Normal household bulbs fail when the filament inside breaks, which in turn is caused when the coating on the filament is eventually "boiled off" the filament wire (hence the reason bulbs get "dark" before they fail). Lutron dimmers reduce the power to the lamp (remember, they save energy), which in turn makes the bulbs operate at a lower temperature. This reduces the rate at which the tungsten material leaves the filament, and the end result is far fewer bulbs to replace! You can extend bulb life by four times by dimming the lights by only 20% from full (to 80% of normal brightness). At 50% brightness, the life extension jumps up to 20 times. at: http://www.residential-landscape-lighting-design.com/FAQs_lighting_dimmers.h tm#5 -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 00:10:53 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:10:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Rotary engines From: "rgeaston@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Wednesday, August 20, 2003, at 05:11 PM, Mike Bartman wrote: > > I also seem to remember some of the early Mazda engines having problems > with rotor seals (the equivalent of piston rings) and thus requiring > major > It was at about 80k miles the apex (i think they are called) seals had to be replaced. most of the times costing more than replacing the vehicle ... i believe they fixed this in the later RX 7 line though. -- Robert AOL IM wingnut022074 )B“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.)B” Edward Abbey From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 07:49:11 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: , Subject: RE: Rotary engines Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:48:08 -0400 Good maintenance and the engines would run forever, they just were very touch maintenance wise like all Mazdas. I raced 1st gen RX7s (12A) and the *really* good engines were just broken in after 80k street miles. People raced on 120k+ miles and we found plenty of engines w/ close to $200k. It's about $1500 to rebuild with new seals and housings. The housings are the expensive part. You can reuse old good housings (preferred). -Jim > > It was at about 80k miles the apex (i think they are called) > seals had > to be replaced. most of the times costing more than replacing the > vehicle ... i believe they fixed this in the later RX 7 line though. > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 08:05:47 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 05:05:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) To: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Several years ago I read the following for drivetrain powerlosses: Chain 2% - 4% loss Belt 1% - 2% loss and for the Horkster: Shaft 7% - 10% loss Glenn --- "wayne@XXXXXX" wrote: > So back to my original question edited as to avoid a > wet vs. dry discussion > ;-), "What are the drivetrain losses for a typical > chain drive bike with > (any) clutch?". :-) > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:10:01 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:08:48 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Glenn Dysart CC: wayne@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dyno Results (and new Triumph) Yep, those are the figures I've heard/read. Chain 2% - 4% loss - mucho maintenance/adjustment, short life span. Belt 1% - 2% loss - near zero maintenance/adjustment, long life. and for the Horkster: Shaft 7% - 10% loss - moderate maintenance/lube, long life. On those facts, the belt drive rules. However, in Wayne's Mega-HP situation, belts have a limit to the HP they can handle. New version belts, such as on Harley's V-Rod, are tougher, and the balls to the wall hot rods often use two belts. But methinks a chain is the simple answer for Hi-HP rigs. Bill Glenn Dysart wrote: > Several years ago I read the following for drivetrain > powerlosses: > > Chain 2% - 4% loss > Belt 1% - 2% loss > > and for the Horkster: > > Shaft 7% - 10% loss > > Glenn > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:25:16 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:24:59 EDT Subject: Re: Rotary engines To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 3:31:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, charlieozark@XXXXXX writes: > so, lets hear it, what are the problems? and who wants to be the first to > shoe-horn one into a stripped down goldwing? As stated there have been at least 3 rotary motorcycles, BSA, Hercules, and Suzuki, all failed. As for problems the primary one is rotor tip wear, those tips have to remain in contact with the walls of the combustion chamber at all times. Where do they get lubrication? I _know_ that the Suzuki and Hercules used oil/fuel mix aka. two cycles, and that creates pollution problems. How do they cool off? In the Hercules the air/fuel/oil mix actually entered the combustion chamber _through_ the rotor, heating (thinning) the air/fuel and as a result reducing horsepower. As for vibration the rotor does not spin like a turbine, it spins on an eccentric, in other words wobbling, and that creates vibration, not bad but not Goldwing smooth either. And believe me you cannot go into the local garage and expect anyone to know how to fix one when it breaks. I have been reading about them since they were known as Wankels, in fact since they were known as Van kels (German inventor) Neat though. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:28:54 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:28:43 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Re: hand signals? >At 12:20 PM 8/20/03 -0400, Erick Singley wrote: >>Greetings, >> >>OK- I classify myself as a new rider - I've taken the MSF class, I >>know who to wave to (*grin*) >>(http://www.travelingbikers.com/humor.html ) I know how to signal >>left/right by hand - but I'm sure I'm missing something. > >I'm sure we're all missing something. :^) Thanks for the link...funny stuff! Thanks to everyone for the input. I figured I went from 'absolute newbie' to 'new rider' when I said "Stupid weather reports... always wrong... I'm riding in anyway. It's not going to rain..." > >On a minor rant, I'm stuck waiting for parts again. Last month the >>bike died while at a stop light as I put it in gear. Everything >>*looked* ok but once we dragged it back home and we checked it over >>with a meter, we found a bad bus-fuse. (melted inside the metal area >>where you couldn't see.) New fuse and I'm fine. > >Any idea why the fuse melted? Got shorts? No, I always wear long pants when riding :) Yes - actually - the starter button area had a badly wired ground from some owner. I had repaired it, but used too light a wire- which had started to rub through the insulation. Fixed that as well. I can only assume than when I put it in gear at the stop that the jolt either shorted it there - or caused the loose wire within the fuse to move and arc and really die. (I had it out of gear while I adjusted the idle - which I'm told is common on that cold-blooded beast.) > >Last week, the horn fell off, dangled by one wire, and started >>melting on the pipes. When I tied it up with some string, >>temporarily, it would ground on the frame and honk at random people :) > >An auto-horn? Cool! Around here, anyone you honk at probably needs it. Yeah. That was quite a fun discovery. "Phew! What's that awful smell of burning insulation? Hope that's not me!" The pipes have since burned themselves back clean. The horn still works, although uglier. > >Yesterday a throttle cable broke a mile from work. I coasted to a >>halt and walked the rest of the way. New cable comes in Friday. Maybe >>a stretchy cable -- ready to break -- is why I thought I didn't have >>much 'oomph' ? Or should I check over my ignition or carbs? > >Given the vintage of your bike, and the apparent state of repair, perhaps >you should? Check the battery cables for corrosion too. In fact, you >might want to get a manual and go over everything, just to be sure? > >-- Mike B. Got the manual and done a *heck* of a lot of repairs on it so far. (previous owner's maintenance maybe slid when he got his new bike :) the fork oil looked like a milkshake with the water in it. the swing arm was dry of grease, chain was rusty. tires 10 years old and dry rotted. shorts in the headlamp rats-nest-wiring. fronts brakes slightly siezed/rusted (boy did my gas mileage rot until I figured that out). cables needed lube. adjusted floats in carb. loose horn wire, dead battery + bad charging, stripped the oil plug this year. Not to mention replacing the alternator cover, a turn signal and shift lever (remember those bad tires? Newbies learn about old bikes the hard way. That was one of my first posts here a while ago :) I ripped up the back brake rod when I missed a cotter pin reassembling the bike tire area for something.... *ka-womp* "What did I just run over? Oooo nothing. That was my rear brake rotating around with the tire...." I figure I should one day *ride* my bike up to Dutrow's Honda in Frederick to prove that I have a bike since they've never seen it. I've only come to them in a car for parts! Although my dad has helped me with carbs on cars, a lawn tractor, and soon an electrical generator, the bike will be a new one for me. 4 carbs! (no sediment in the bowls last I checked - but I'll bet I should replace the fuel filter) Erick 74' CB750 K4 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:32:51 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:32:32 EDT Subject: Re: Rotary engines To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 5:12:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > the Wankel design seems like a pretty good one, if you can > get the specific engineering problems worked out well enough. Suzuki cured problems they did not even have. I am not kidding. They created something so complex no one wanted one. Example: The throttle cable split into no less then _5_ cables. One: Throttle on Two: Throttle off Three: Intake butterfly on Four: Intake butterfly off Five: Oil injector pump up/down And the carburetor itself was an ungodly _bitch_! Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:37:53 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:37:39 EDT Subject: Re: Rotary engines To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, freecat@XXXXXX writes: > The Suzuki rotary-powered bikes were kinda heavy. The fact is the rotary was the best handling thing coming out of Japan at the time. It frame/geometry was the basis of many Suzukis that followed it. Like many other bikes it was just too strange and different to sell, everyone wanted to ride one, no one wanted to buy one. I was one of those people. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:53:20 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:53:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed limit was 55.) But what really is terrible is that the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator to look into the background of the guy he killed. Looks like it's going to be the "blame the victim" defense. The NYTimes (which I think has the more informative article, except it's missing the PI info), says this is his 8th accident in the last 10 years, and he uses his speeding in his stump speech. This guy better be charged w/ manslaughter. (Below are the links to the 2 articles.) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959-2003Aug20.html http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:57:42 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:56:46 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: RE: Rotary engines At 07:48 8/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: >People raced on 120k+ miles and we found plenty of engines w/ close to >$200k Wow! A $200,000 engine! In an RX-7?!? What kind of horsepower did those make?! You'd figure if there were plenty of guys with $200k to drop into a motor, why didn't they just buy a Formula Atlantic or something? :) -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 09:57:45 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:56:57 -0400 F**king fry his ass. There is a big difference between aggressive driving and blatant disregard for every other human on the road. This is where I have trouble with the legal system. Anyone want to bet this guy gets a slap on the wrist 3 years from now instead of taken care of in the short term (3 months or so)? Only thing that will get this guy in trouble is if the media stays on top of the case since most people's attention spans are about 10 minutes. -Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Isaac Blanck [mailto:thelostshark@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:53 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > limit was 55.) But what really is terrible is that > the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > to look into the background of the guy he killed. > Looks like it's going to be the "blame the victim" > defense. The NYTimes (which I think has the more > informative article, except it's missing the PI info), > says this is his 8th accident in the last 10 years, > and he uses his speeding in his stump speech. This > guy better be charged w/ manslaughter. (Below are the > links to the 2 articles.) > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959-2003Aug20.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:02:46 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:02:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Rotary engines To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Finally an interesting, on-topic thread! For those of you who aren't familiar with rotary engines, you can see a diagram of Mazda's new "Renesis" engine here: http://www.mazda.com/mnl/200306/renesis.html The combustion chamber is fairly representative of rotary engines - the triangular "piston" rotates more or less in place, however it does do a sorta figure-8 motion as well. You may notice the combustion chamber shape is not exactly round - it's more of a rounded peanut shape. As the piston rotates around the chamber, it alternately (1) recieves air and fuel mixture, (2) sparks combustion, creating power, and (3) expels the spent gases. Just a little FYI for folks who are interested but don't have much knowledge of the technology. Cheers, Chris Weaver __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:02:56 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Sean Jordan'" , Subject: RE: Rotary engines Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:18 -0400 Yeah, you know us racers... :) 200k miles... $500! ;) > > At 07:48 8/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >People raced on 120k+ miles and we found plenty of engines > w/ close to > >$200k > > Wow! A $200,000 engine! In an RX-7?!? What kind of horsepower > did those > make?! You'd figure if there were plenty of guys with $200k > to drop into a > motor, why didn't they just buy a Formula Atlantic or something? > > :) > > -Sean Jordan > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:07:01 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:06:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In case you are not registered at the NYTimes South Dakota Congressman's Driving History Clouds Future By MICHAEL JANOFSKY ASHINGTON, Aug. 20 )B— It was never much of a secret around South Dakota that Representative Bill Janklow liked to drive fast. He admitted as much in his 1999 State of the State address when he was governor, making a point about mandatory jail time as a strong deterrent for drug offenders. "Bill Janklow speeds when he drives )B— shouldn't, but he does," Mr. Janklow said. "When he gets the ticket, he pays it, but if someone told me I was going to jail for two days for speeding, my driving habits would change." If those driving habits have not changed, they could wind up costing him much more than two days in jail and, perhaps, an interruption in a notable career of public service that began nearly 30 years ago. While driving his 1995 Cadillac on Saturday in rural Moody County, about 25 miles northeast of Sioux Falls, S.D., Mr. Janklow ran a stop sign, according to the authorities, and hit a motorcyclist, killing him. An accident report released today by the South Dakota Highway Patrol said that Mr. Janklow, 63, was going an estimated 70 to 75 miles per hour, and that the speed limit was 55 m.p.h., according to The Associated Press. The report said neither driver had been drinking. Mr. Janklow, who suffered bleeding in his brain and fractured his hand, could face a prison sentence of 10 years or more if he is charged and convicted of manslaughter. Mr. Janklow's son, A. Russell Janklow, a lawyer in Sioux Falls, said in an interview today that his father expected to be charged in the case but not with anything as severe as manslaughter. "That's just absolute craziness," Russell Janklow said. "If they charged him with that, I'd be shocked." As the cyclist, Randy E. Scott, 55, of Hardwick, Minn., was buried today in his hometown, Mr. Janklow was at home, his physical condition improving, his son said, but his psychological distress over the collision still apparent. "He's had an ongoing headache from a combination of his head injury, coupled with no sleep for two days and the overwhelming emotional impact of the accident," Russell Janklow said. "For now, he's staying at home and resting while doctors are concerned that the bleeding could turn into an aneurysm." Russell Janklow conceded that his father's history of speeding violations had been an unfortunate footnote to an otherwise distinguished career that includes four years as South Dakota attorney general, 16 years as governor and, since January, as a member of the House. Newspaper reports today in South Dakota said that Mr. Janklow had been involved in seven previous accidents in the last 10 years, one that resulted in minor injuries, and was cited at least 12 times between 1990 and 1994 for speeding violations, some for exceeding the limit by 20 m.p.h. or more. Russell Janklow offered no excuse for his father's erratic driving, other than to make a general case that the large size and sparse population of the state added to pressure his father always felt to respond to problems and events in a timely manner. On Saturday, Mr. Janklow was returning to his suburban Sioux Falls home from Aberdeen, about 160 miles away, after attending a ceremony to honor Korean War veterans. Throughout his career, Mr. Janklow, a Republican, has built an outsized public profile in the state, a politician known for his eagerness to reach the center of any situation. "He is bigger than life here in South Dakota," said William D. Richardson, chairman of the political science department at the University of South Dakota. "He's a very colorful guy who speaks his mind. He has always been treated as the mayor of the state, someone who is always first on the scene, taking charge, directing everything." Mr. Janklow's political ambition led him to the governor's mansion for the first time in 1979. After two four-year terms, the most allowed in South Dakota, he ran an unsuccessful campaign for the Senate in 1986. Eight years later, he won the first of two more terms as governor. Rather than retire from public view in 2002, Mr. Janklow ran for the House and won a spirited race against Stephanie Herseth, a Democratic lawyer and the granddaughter of a former South Dakota governor. Mr. Richardson said Mr. Janklow's political future now hinged on the results of the accident investigation, the severity of a charge and the results of any trial. He said Republicans in the state had been urging Mr. Janklow to run for the Senate next year, a race that could pit him against an old friend, Senator Tom Daschle, the minority leader. And Mr. Janklow, he said, did not dismiss the idea. But now, Mr. Richardson said, "the potential damage of his accident could have huge implications." Russell Janklow said his father "has not spent two minutes" since the accident thinking about his political career or politics. "He's focusing on the Scott family and the tragedy they are going through," he said. "Then, if my dad is physically and mentally up to it, he'll resume his responsibilities for the people of South Dakota." Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The > speed > limit was 55.) But what really is terrible is that > the WP reports that he's hired a private > investigator > to look into the background of the guy he killed. > Looks like it's going to be the "blame the victim" > defense. The NYTimes (which I think has the more > informative article, except it's missing the PI > info), > says this is his 8th accident in the last 10 years, > and he uses his speeding in his stump speech. This > guy better be charged w/ manslaughter. (Below are > the > links to the 2 articles.) > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959-2003Aug20.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:13:38 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 07:12:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX consider this: he could easily lose his shirt in a civil action brought by the estate of the decedent. i don't know south dakota law, but my bet is that a jury will be permitted to consider an award of punitive damages. so, jerkoff could potentially end up in the slammer, as well as lose a small fortune. this will be a good story to follow.... it may actually have a decent ending. --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > F**king fry his ass. There is a big difference between > aggressive > driving and blatant disregard for every other human on > the road. > > This is where I have trouble with the legal system. > Anyone want to bet > this guy gets a slap on the wrist 3 years from now > instead of taken care > of in the short term (3 months or so)? Only thing that > will get this > guy in trouble is if the media stays on top of the case > since most > people's attention spans are about 10 minutes. > > -Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Isaac Blanck [mailto:thelostshark@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 9:53 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > > Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > > limit was 55.) But what really is terrible is that > > the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > > to look into the background of the guy he killed. > > Looks like it's going to be the "blame the victim" > > defense. The NYTimes (which I think has the more > > informative article, except it's missing the PI info), > > says this is his 8th accident in the last 10 years, > > and he uses his speeding in his stump speech. This > > guy better be charged w/ manslaughter. (Below are the > > links to the 2 articles.) > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959-2003Aug20.html > > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:14:06 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:13:45 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! [Dave] WRONG. He has been ACCUSED of going that fast by the police accident investigation team. Their word is NOT GOSPEL. Just ask any Charles County firefighter what they thought of the MSP accident investigation team who cleared murderer Jody Powell - still a deputy, BTW, despite no less than 6 contradicting eyewitnesses, & dispatch records. Powell was the Ch. Co. Deputy who ran the 210 / 227 light, killing a firefighter who had the green light. This was suppressed by the MSP investigation team, but after a change of venue to PG county, the family won $250k - the maximum allowable by state law. The testimony showed that both Charles county deputies and MSP filed false accident reports accusing the firefighter of running the red light, when clear eyewitness testimony from half a dozen witnesses contradicted it. Those witnesses testified that they told MSP the deputy was not using her lights, was accelerating when she impacted the firefighter, and dispatch records revealed she had been ordered off the call - which was a traffic stop that was already over. >Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed >limit was 55.) [Dave] what the black box alleges he was doing over and above the speed limit is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he did not stop for the traffic sign (allegedly). If that is proven, then let's hope he's going to be spending the remainder of his life in the slammer. That said, just because all the news outlets are reporting "he was going 70 mph when he ran the stop sign" - doesn't make it true. > But what really is terrible is that >the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator >to look into the background of the guy he killed. [Dave] That is pretty sleazy, if it's true. OTOH, keep in mind that all the news agencies reporting this are indicating he "was going 70mph when he ran the stop sign" - not "police are accusing him of going 70mph and running a stop sign"... resulting in death. >(Below are the >links to the 2 articles.) >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959- 2003Aug20.html >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > [Dave] I don't have Times logon; The post headline is ridiculous - but the article does begrudgingly state that this is the police report. Still, the overall impression on reading this is that the Police are stating fact, which is misleading. Don't get me wrong - if the Congressman is found guilty, life in prison or death are perfectly acceptable punishments are fine by me... I just wish the news outlets would be a little more fair in their coverage. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:16:46 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:16:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Rotary engines From: Steve Miller To: I find it hard to believe that it really handled better than my old CB550, but in any case there are more advantages to light weight than just handling. Classic Cycle Trader reprints old bike reviews from Cycle and Cycle World; I seem to remember reading a review of the Suzuki that said the handling was good for a bike its size, but nothing great. But maybe they were reviewing a Ducati 750SS in the same issue. ;-) Anyway, it's a neat bike, no doubt. on 8/21/03 9:37 AM, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX at PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/20/2003 9:34:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > freecat@XXXXXX writes: > >> The Suzuki rotary-powered bikes were kinda heavy. > > The fact is the rotary was the best handling thing coming out of Japan at the > time. It frame/geometry was the basis of many Suzukis that followed it. > Like many other bikes it was just too strange and different to sell, everyone > wanted to ride one, no one wanted to buy one. > I was one of those people. > > Loud pipes quell cells. > 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. > > John Walters (Long John) > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Up near DC > > > Honda ST1100X Pan European > BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles > Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:50:10 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:51:10 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: Subject: Re: SD news paper (and SD Congressman real scumbag) Bob posted earlier: >>> Bob McKeithen 08/18/03 08:12PM >>> Check out www.argusleader.com I spent some time out there and I know this fool. I'll bet he violated the riders right of way. ****************************************** I went to this website again today, and it has much more detail about the accident. Go to today's article, and then also to the archive articles. One article talks about . . . Janklow told authorities at the accident scene "there was a vehicle in his lane of traffic and he had to make an evasive maneuver to avoid" it, according to the report, which was made available late Wednesday. Another article talks about the condition of both the car (with a picture of the door the motorcycle hit) and the bike--sounds pretty bad. One article gets some comments from the other motorcycle rider that was riding in front of Randy Scott, the deceased. He indicated that they had both safely passed a motor home, and he saw corn fields, but did not see a car. The next time he looked in his mirror, all he saw was dust and debris. When Bob McKeithen sent the above e-mail earlier on Monday, it had a picture of the intersection, and also someone had done a map of what the accident scene looked like. It showed the first biker making it through the intersection. I could not seem to come across this map this time though. Interesting articles. Judy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:51:34 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:50:26 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Mark Kitchell CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Mark Kitchell wrote: > In case you are not registered at the NYTimes > > South Dakota Congressman's Driving History Clouds > Future > By MICHAEL JANOFSKY > > "Mr. Janklow's son, A. Russell Janklow, a lawyer in > Sioux Falls, said in an interview today that his > father expected to be charged in the case but not with > anything as severe as manslaughter. "That's just > absolute craziness," Russell Janklow said. "If they > charged him with that, I'd be shocked." Shocked! I'd be appalled if the state didn't charge him with manslaughter. In fact, considering his driving history, which reflects a blatant disregard for safety, I wouldn't be surprised if the son-ofa-bitch was charged with 2nd degree murder - voluntary manslaughter. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 10:53:08 2003 From: pam@XXXXXX To: Isaac Blanck Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:53:05 -0400 I grew up driving roads like that in Utah, Idaho and Wyoming. If he was going 75, he was actually going the acceptable rate of speed for that area, especially if it was really rural. Actually, he might even be passed on both sides by people going the speed of light. Beyond the immediate tragedy, the truly sad thing is that this event will be rationalized away. People will clap him on the back and say, 'I'm so sorry this happened to you', and, in time, he'll regain his standing in the community. I'll go back to lurking now... Pam Isaac Blanck writes: > He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > limit was 55.) But what really is terrible is that > the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > to look into the background of the guy he killed. > Looks like it's going to be the "blame the victim" > defense. The NYTimes (which I think has the more > informative article, except it's missing the PI info), > says this is his 8th accident in the last 10 years, > and he uses his speeding in his stump speech. This > guy better be charged w/ manslaughter. (Below are the > links to the 2 articles.) > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959-2003Aug20.html > http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 11:32:16 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:31:33 -0400 You are dreaming if you believe someone will be sentenced to "life" in a case such as this, even if alcohol is a factor. I predict that without a showing of intoxication there will be suspended jail time or perhaps up to 1 year in jail (which usually means about 3-6 months served) if the defendant is convicted. Of course, even with a jail sentence there can be work release and at home monitored incarceration. If alcohol is a factor, I believe the sentence will be about three years, assuming the defendant is convicted of a charge permitting such a sentence. Some offenses only allow for a year in jail. Regarding punitive damages, in Virginia I believe the Court would not permit the issue of punitive damages to go to the jury in a civil case, as Virginia is very conservative on that issue. You basically need evidence of a BAC above .15 or willful and wanton conduct. For instance, driving the wrong way down a one way street at night without your lights on may suffice. Running a stop sign at a somewhat high rate of speed won't, in my opinion. I am glad to see someone discussing the $250K cap in Maryland. Those who are arguing for "Tort Reform" really don't understand the implications of Tort Reform until they or a family member are seriously injured. After you take away 1/3 for attorney's fees and costs, which can amount to $50K+ the family may be left with around $127,000.00. Not very much for the life of a father, is it? The Republicans (under Bush) are trying to enact Federal laws capping damages in medical malpractice cases with the same $250,000.00 cap for non-compensatory damages. Is you child or wife only worth at the most $250,000.00 to you? (Really only $100,000.00 after fees and costs are deducted). Furthermore, you have to deduct out of the $100K any health insurance and other liens!! The Republicans also want to allow med mal defendants to be able to pay the $250K back over several years!! There are several other "reforms" the Republicans want to implement that will adversely affect a severely injured person's ability to be fairly compensated. If you don't believe me, do your own research and let me know what you find out. Lastly, the current "medical crisis" is not as a result of large plaintiff's verdicts or lawsuits. The truth is that the insurance companies invested the malpractice premiums they received into the stock market. Some of the investments were far from profitable. Furthermore, like most of us, the values of their portfolios decreased significantly during the past several years due to market conditions. Years ago many insurance companies lowballed their premiums betting on a large rise in the stock market to cover future expenses and claims. Needless to say, the market did not cooperate. Insurance companies are now having to make up their losses caused by poor investments by raising premiums sky high. Again, if you do not believe me do your own research. The above commentary is based upon my 20 years as a practicing lawyer, including criminal defense work, personal injury and medical malpractice. Roy D. Turner, Esq. www.cfolwaw.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Yates" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > >He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > > [Dave] WRONG. He has been ACCUSED of going that fast by the > police accident investigation team. Their word is NOT > GOSPEL. Just ask any Charles County firefighter what they > thought of the MSP accident investigation team who cleared > murderer Jody Powell - still a deputy, BTW, despite no less > than 6 contradicting eyewitnesses, & dispatch records. > > Powell was the Ch. Co. Deputy who ran the 210 / 227 light, > killing a firefighter who had the green light. This was > suppressed by the MSP investigation team, but after a change > of venue to PG county, the family won $250k - the maximum > allowable by state law. The testimony showed that both > Charles county deputies and MSP filed false accident reports > accusing the firefighter of running the red light, when clear > eyewitness testimony from half a dozen witnesses contradicted > it. Those witnesses testified that they told MSP the deputy > was not using her lights, was accelerating when she impacted > the firefighter, and dispatch records revealed she had been > ordered off the call - which was a traffic stop that was > already over. > > > >Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > >limit was 55.) > > [Dave] what the black box alleges he was doing over and above > the speed limit is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he > did not stop for the traffic sign (allegedly). If that is > proven, then let's hope he's going to be spending the > remainder of his life in the slammer. That said, just > because all the news outlets are reporting "he was going 70 > mph when he ran the stop sign" - doesn't make it true. > > > > But what really is terrible is that > >the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > >to look into the background of the guy he killed. > > [Dave] That is pretty sleazy, if it's true. OTOH, keep in > mind that all the news agencies reporting this are indicating > he "was going 70mph when he ran the stop sign" - not "police > are accusing him of going 70mph and running a stop sign"... > resulting in death. > > >(Below are the > >links to the 2 articles.) > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959- > 2003Aug20.html > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > > > [Dave] I don't have Times logon; The post headline is > ridiculous - but the article does begrudgingly state that > this is the police report. Still, the overall impression on > reading this is that the Police are stating fact, which is > misleading. > > Don't get me wrong - if the Congressman is found guilty, life > in prison or death are perfectly acceptable punishments are > fine by me... I just wish the news outlets would be a little > more fair in their coverage. > > > Dave Yates > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 11:39:25 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Roy D. Turner, Esq.'" , Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:38:49 -0400 Agreed, but something has to be done about the $8 million dollar cup of hot coffee that got spilled on someones lap or the now I'm fat and its McDonald's fault (numbers fabricated because I don't remember). If the judicial system used common sense in the past, it wouldn't need hard fast rules that are too restrictive in some cases. And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. Most people would go bankrupt first so what does it matter? The more important thing is that this person pay with more than their wallet. Heck put them in a parking lot on a MC and give me a truck for 10 minutes... ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy D. Turner, Esq. [mailto:rturner@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:32 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > You are dreaming if you believe someone will be sentenced to > "life" in a > case such as this, even if alcohol is a factor. I predict > that without a > showing of intoxication there will be suspended jail time or > perhaps up to 1 > year in jail (which usually means about 3-6 months served) if > the defendant > is convicted. Of course, even with a jail sentence there can be work > release and at home monitored incarceration. > > If alcohol is a factor, I believe the sentence will be about > three years, > assuming the defendant is convicted of a charge permitting > such a sentence. > Some offenses only allow for a year in jail. > > Regarding punitive damages, in Virginia I believe the Court > would not permit > the issue of punitive > damages to go to the jury in a civil case, as Virginia is > very conservative > on that issue. You basically need evidence of a BAC above > .15 or willful > and wanton conduct. For instance, driving the wrong way down > a one way > street at night without your lights on may suffice. Running > a stop sign at > a somewhat high rate of speed won't, in my opinion. > > I am glad to see someone discussing the $250K cap in > Maryland. Those who > are arguing for "Tort Reform" really don't understand the > implications of > Tort Reform until they or a family member are seriously > injured. After you > take away 1/3 for attorney's fees and costs, which can amount > to $50K+ the > family may be left with around $127,000.00. Not very much > for the life of a > father, is it? > > The Republicans (under Bush) are trying to enact Federal laws capping > damages in medical malpractice cases with the same $250,000.00 cap for > non-compensatory damages. Is you child or wife only worth at the most > $250,000.00 to you? (Really only $100,000.00 after fees and costs are > deducted). Furthermore, you have to deduct out of the $100K > any health > insurance and other liens!! The Republicans also want to allow med mal > defendants to be able to pay the $250K back over several > years!! There are > several other "reforms" the Republicans want to implement that will > adversely affect a severely injured person's ability to be fairly > compensated. If you don't believe me, do your own research > and let me know > what you find out. > > Lastly, the current "medical crisis" is not as a result of > large plaintiff's > verdicts or lawsuits. The truth is that the insurance > companies invested > the malpractice premiums they received into the stock market. > Some of the > investments were far from profitable. Furthermore, like most > of us, the > values of their portfolios decreased significantly during the > past several > years due to market conditions. Years ago many insurance companies > lowballed their premiums betting on a large rise in the stock > market to > cover future expenses and claims. Needless to say, the market did not > cooperate. Insurance companies are now having to make up > their losses caused > by poor investments by raising premiums sky high. Again, if > you do not > believe me do your own research. > > The above commentary is based upon my 20 years as a practicing lawyer, > including criminal defense work, personal injury and medical > malpractice. > > Roy D. Turner, Esq. > www.cfolwaw.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Yates" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > >He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > > > > [Dave] WRONG. He has been ACCUSED of going that fast by the > > police accident investigation team. Their word is NOT > > GOSPEL. Just ask any Charles County firefighter what they > > thought of the MSP accident investigation team who cleared > > murderer Jody Powell - still a deputy, BTW, despite no less > > than 6 contradicting eyewitnesses, & dispatch records. > > > > Powell was the Ch. Co. Deputy who ran the 210 / 227 light, > > killing a firefighter who had the green light. This was > > suppressed by the MSP investigation team, but after a change > > of venue to PG county, the family won $250k - the maximum > > allowable by state law. The testimony showed that both > > Charles county deputies and MSP filed false accident reports > > accusing the firefighter of running the red light, when clear > > eyewitness testimony from half a dozen witnesses contradicted > > it. Those witnesses testified that they told MSP the deputy > > was not using her lights, was accelerating when she impacted > > the firefighter, and dispatch records revealed she had been > > ordered off the call - which was a traffic stop that was > > already over. > > > > > > >Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > > >limit was 55.) > > > > [Dave] what the black box alleges he was doing over and above > > the speed limit is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he > > did not stop for the traffic sign (allegedly). If that is > > proven, then let's hope he's going to be spending the > > remainder of his life in the slammer. That said, just > > because all the news outlets are reporting "he was going 70 > > mph when he ran the stop sign" - doesn't make it true. > > > > > > > But what really is terrible is that > > >the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > > >to look into the background of the guy he killed. > > > > [Dave] That is pretty sleazy, if it's true. OTOH, keep in > > mind that all the news agencies reporting this are indicating > > he "was going 70mph when he ran the stop sign" - not "police > > are accusing him of going 70mph and running a stop sign"... > > resulting in death. > > > > >(Below are the > > >links to the 2 articles.) > > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959- > > 2003Aug20.html > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > > > > > > [Dave] I don't have Times logon; The post headline is > > ridiculous - but the article does begrudgingly state that > > this is the police report. Still, the overall impression on > > reading this is that the Police are stating fact, which is > > misleading. > > > > Don't get me wrong - if the Congressman is found guilty, life > > in prison or death are perfectly acceptable punishments are > > fine by me... I just wish the news outlets would be a little > > more fair in their coverage. > > > > > > Dave Yates > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 11:57:11 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:55:00 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag At 07:06 AM 8/21/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >In case you are not registered at the NYTimes Mr. Janklow's son, A. Russell Janklow, a lawyer in Sioux Falls, said in an interview today that his father expected to be charged in the case but not with anything as severe as manslaughter. "That's just absolute craziness," Russell Janklow said. "If they charged him with that, I'd be shocked." I'd be shocked if he *wasn't* charged with manslaughter! He was driving recklessly (20 mph or more over the posted limit), he ran a stop sign, and he killed an innocent man. It's a classic "open and shut case". Toss in his driving history, including multiple accidents, and it might even be possible to make the charge a bit higher...it wasn't just negligence that he was engaged in, it was GROSS negligence. Even an idiot should have realized long ago that he needed to change his driving habits. I think we need to change traffic fine standards. Rather than a set dollar amount, they should be pegged to someone's income and net worth. A fine of $50 might get the attention of a person making minimum wage, but it's nothing to someone like Janklow...just another cost of driving. Make the fine $20,000 and I suspect even his attention might be redirected. Do that everywhere and traffic might just go back to being a bit more sane. -- Mike "last (only) ticket paid was in 1978" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 12:06:11 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:05:08 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Jim said : >Agreed, but something has to be done about the $8 million >dollar cup of hot coffee [Dave] Very true. But didn't the jury come up with that ? >And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. [Dave] By "this" do you mean the cup of coffee, or the biker's life ? I don't know what jury's do, but the standard I apply is "if this happened to my wife, how PO'd would I be?' If that doesn't do it for you, try "if this happened to my mom/dad/son/daughter, what would be fair?" For a cup of coffee that is scalding hot which you spill on yourself ? Nada. Life of another person? I'm thinking lots of zeroes before the decimal point... Roy said: You are dreaming if you believe someone will be sentenced to "life" in a case such as this, even if alcohol is a factor. [Dave] Yes, but it's a good dream. Regarding punitive damages, in Virginia I believe the Court would not permit the issue of punitive damages to go to the jury in a civil case, as Virginia is very conservative on that issue. [Dave] Interesting. I'd be willing to bet that if there were adequate prosecution of offenses just like this ( the unfortunate biker, not the coffee ), there wouldn't be all these nuisance suits. That's not the case, and people want to ensure that at least some measure of justice is wrought. I am glad to see someone discussing the $250K cap in Maryland. Those who are arguing for "Tort Reform" really don't understand the implications of Tort Reform until they or a family member are seriously injured. After you take away 1/3 for attorney's fees and costs, which can amount to $50K+ the family may be left with around $127,000.00. Not very much for the life of a father, is it? [Dave] It is wholly inadequate for a life, but, is $250 the maximum tort award in MD, or the maximum that you can get from the State? >> The Republicans (under Bush) ... The Republicans also want >>to allow ... the Republicans want [Dave] Please. not another vast right wing conspiracy. >> >> Lastly, the current "medical crisis" [Dave] Did someone mention medical crisis? Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 12:26:29 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:26:24 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: , Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag The jury awarded $2.9 million, not $8 million On appeal it was reduced to $480,000 And the secret settlement McDonalds reached with the plaintiff (Stella Liebeck) was most likely less than that. http://www.stellaawards.com/ Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Jim McGonigle" Reply-To: Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:38:49 -0400 > >Agreed, but something has to be done about the $8 million dollar cup of >hot coffee that got spilled on someones lap or the now I'm fat and its >McDonald's fault (numbers fabricated because I don't remember). From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 12:48:06 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:48:14 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag At 12:05 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >[Dave] I don't know what jury's do, but the standard >I apply is "if this happened to my wife, how PO'd would I >be?' If that doesn't do it for you, try "if this happened to >my mom/dad/son/daughter, what would be fair?" Is that what our courts should be doing though? Are they for revenge? Social engineering? Compensation for damages done? Something else? Which answer you pick will determine what sort of results we should be getting from them. You seem to have picked "revenge", based on your wife comment. High awards that hurt or destroy the offender are appropriate under that theory. The purpose of the courts is, in that case, to make the person responsible suffer as much or more than the victim(s). Those who choose compensation aren't interested in satisfying the revenge urges of the victims, they are interested in getting the victims something to help make up for the harm done them. Paying for expenses incurred, and those likely to occur in future, as a result of the actions of the perpetrator. This seems to be the idea behind the "deep pockets" idea in our current system...*someone* has to pay the victims, and if the one responsible can't do it, then whoever was nearby at the time should pay, regardless of their level of responsibility (this is similar morally to robbery, but it's legal). I prefer the social engineering thing (i.e. how do we convince people to take steps to make sure that tragedy doesn't happen in the first place?). Penalties should be steep enough to get the attention of any potential perpetrators...even if that means we make them a percentage of what the perpetrator has, rather than a fixed dollar amount, or period of time in jail. If we can convince people to be careful, there will be fewer victims to start with. When there are anyway, whatever penalty is imposed in a material sense can be used for compensation...with society as a whole filling in any gaps, rather than "taxing" bystanders to cover it as is done frequently today. This theory would require that only those actually responsible be penalized of course...it wouldn't be fair to make someone pay if there was nothing they could have done to foresee or prevent the harm, the level of harm notwithstanding. Paying damaged or serving time should only happen as a result of negligence or criminal intent, not just a failure to be omniscient and omnipotent. This is obviously not the way our civil courts work today. >For a cup of coffee that is scalding hot which you spill on >yourself ? Nada. > >Life of another person? I'm thinking lots of zeroes before >the decimal point... How about we just give the perpetrator to the family as a slave to replace the person they killed? >Roy said: > You are dreaming if you believe someone will be sentenced to > "life" in a case such as this, even if alcohol is a factor. > >[Dave] Yes, but it's a good dream. Given his age, it's possible that a 10 year sentence could be "life". In first degree manslaughter that's possible...though I agree it isn't likely, no matter how much it might be justified. >>> The Republicans (under Bush) ... The Republicans also want >>>to allow ... the Republicans want > >[Dave] Please. not another vast right wing conspiracy. We need tort reform. We don't necessarily need caps on awards. The two are not synonymous. "Loser pays" might be a good way to get all the junk lawsuits out of courts for instance...it works in other countries. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 12:50:02 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >-- Mike "last (only) ticket paid was in 1978" Bartman -- Given the arbitrary nature of law enforcement and the general flow rate of traffic, that has to be the result of 25 years of not driving, dumb luck, or constituting a mobile speed bump. It's about time you paid your fair share of taxes, Mike. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:10:17 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:09:12 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX MikeB asks: >Is that what our courts should be doing though? Are they for revenge? [Dave] I could live with that. To the point that if he's not criminally punished sufficiently, then those with a valid cause of action should be allowed to sue him so that those people and society as a whole are assured the offender won't repeat his/her misdeeds. >even if that means we make them a percentage of what the >perpetrator has, rather than a fixed dollar amount, or >period of time in jail. [Dave] So, if a Bum with no assets kills a member of your (in general, not specifically) family, he should get off for, what? $0.05 ? ... >Paying damaged or serving time should only happen as a >result of negligence or criminal intent, not just a >failure to be omniscient and omnipotent. This is obviously >not the way our civil courts work today. >How about we just give the perpetrator to the family as a >slave to replace the person they killed? [Dave] I'd much prefer they spend their remaining days as their prison cell mate's love slave. >We need tort reform. We don't necessarily need caps on >awards. The two are not synonymous. "Loser pays" might be >a good way to get all the junk lawsuits out of courts for >instance...it works in other countries. [Dave] This would work great for traffic court too. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:15:07 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:05:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > Most people would go > bankrupt first so what does it matter? Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:21:56 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Dave Yates wrote: > I am glad to see someone discussing the $250K cap in > Maryland. Those who are arguing for "Tort Reform" really > > don't understand the implications of > Tort Reform until they or a family member are seriously > injured. After you take away 1/3 for attorney's fees and > > costs, which can amount to $50K+ the family may be left > with > around $127,000.00. Not very much for the life of a > father, > is it? > > [Dave] It is wholly inadequate for a life, but, is $250 > the > maximum tort award in MD, or the maximum that you can get > > from the State? right now, the cap is $605,000 in non-economic damages for 1 claimant, $907,500 for two or more claimants. this has nothing to do with maximum tort awards or sovereign immunity, but rather the "pain and suffering" element of damages. setting a cap as suggested makes no sense for anybody but insurers and tortfeasors. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:27:36 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:27:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, "'Roy D. Turner, Esq.'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > Agreed, but something has to be done about the $8 million > dollar cup of > hot coffee that got spilled on someones lap or the now > I'm fat and its > McDonald's fault (numbers fabricated because I don't > remember). If the > judicial system used common sense in the past, it > wouldn't need hard > fast rules that are too restrictive in some cases. you lost me. how does a "judicial system" exercise common sense. > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. Most > people would go > bankrupt first so what does it matter? i suggest you check into the bankruptcy laws to determine if such a debt can be discharged. -- tg __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:36:48 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: , Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:36:08 -0400 The final recovery the Plaintiff received was no where close to that amount. Furthermore, judges usually have the authority to reduce the damages if the award is out of line. Also, the Supreme Court of the U.S. just issued a ruling that appears to put a reasonable limitation on punitive damages. I understand that in the McDonald's case the jury awarded punitive damages based on McDonald's egregious conduct. I understand that the Plaintiff suffered 3rd degree burns on her private parts. I understand that McDonald's was aware that the temperature of its coffee caused several persons to be burned prior to that incident. I also recall being told that McDonald's sold the coffee at a very high temperature to discourage customers from returning for free refills, as it took a long time for the coffee cool down to a drinkable temperature. Just like the Ford Pinto case years ago, I guess McDonald's believed the cost of jury awards/settlements would be less than amount of dollars saved by their negligent conduct. I do agree that frivolous law suits are filed. However, judges have the authority to sanction attorneys who file such claims. Again, the problem could be resolved if the judiciary were more active. By the way, don't believe everything you read in the paper or hear on TV. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Roy D. Turner, Esq.'" ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:38 AM Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > Agreed, but something has to be done about the $8 million dollar cup of > hot coffee that got spilled on someones lap or the now I'm fat and its > McDonald's fault (numbers fabricated because I don't remember). If the > judicial system used common sense in the past, it wouldn't need hard > fast rules that are too restrictive in some cases. > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. Most people would go > bankrupt first so what does it matter? The more important thing is that > this person pay with more than their wallet. Heck put them in a parking > lot on a MC and give me a truck for 10 minutes... ;) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Roy D. Turner, Esq. [mailto:rturner@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 11:32 AM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > You are dreaming if you believe someone will be sentenced to > > "life" in a > > case such as this, even if alcohol is a factor. I predict > > that without a > > showing of intoxication there will be suspended jail time or > > perhaps up to 1 > > year in jail (which usually means about 3-6 months served) if > > the defendant > > is convicted. Of course, even with a jail sentence there can be work > > release and at home monitored incarceration. > > > > If alcohol is a factor, I believe the sentence will be about > > three years, > > assuming the defendant is convicted of a charge permitting > > such a sentence. > > Some offenses only allow for a year in jail. > > > > Regarding punitive damages, in Virginia I believe the Court > > would not permit > > the issue of punitive > > damages to go to the jury in a civil case, as Virginia is > > very conservative > > on that issue. You basically need evidence of a BAC above > > .15 or willful > > and wanton conduct. For instance, driving the wrong way down > > a one way > > street at night without your lights on may suffice. Running > > a stop sign at > > a somewhat high rate of speed won't, in my opinion. > > > > I am glad to see someone discussing the $250K cap in > > Maryland. Those who > > are arguing for "Tort Reform" really don't understand the > > implications of > > Tort Reform until they or a family member are seriously > > injured. After you > > take away 1/3 for attorney's fees and costs, which can amount > > to $50K+ the > > family may be left with around $127,000.00. Not very much > > for the life of a > > father, is it? > > > > The Republicans (under Bush) are trying to enact Federal laws capping > > damages in medical malpractice cases with the same $250,000.00 cap for > > non-compensatory damages. Is you child or wife only worth at the most > > $250,000.00 to you? (Really only $100,000.00 after fees and costs are > > deducted). Furthermore, you have to deduct out of the $100K > > any health > > insurance and other liens!! The Republicans also want to allow med mal > > defendants to be able to pay the $250K back over several > > years!! There are > > several other "reforms" the Republicans want to implement that will > > adversely affect a severely injured person's ability to be fairly > > compensated. If you don't believe me, do your own research > > and let me know > > what you find out. > > > > Lastly, the current "medical crisis" is not as a result of > > large plaintiff's > > verdicts or lawsuits. The truth is that the insurance > > companies invested > > the malpractice premiums they received into the stock market. > > Some of the > > investments were far from profitable. Furthermore, like most > > of us, the > > values of their portfolios decreased significantly during the > > past several > > years due to market conditions. Years ago many insurance companies > > lowballed their premiums betting on a large rise in the stock > > market to > > cover future expenses and claims. Needless to say, the market did not > > cooperate. Insurance companies are now having to make up > > their losses caused > > by poor investments by raising premiums sky high. Again, if > > you do not > > believe me do your own research. > > > > The above commentary is based upon my 20 years as a practicing lawyer, > > including criminal defense work, personal injury and medical > > malpractice. > > > > Roy D. Turner, Esq. > > www.cfolwaw.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dave Yates" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 10:13 AM > > Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > > >He was going 70-75 mph when he ran the stop sign!!! > > > > > > [Dave] WRONG. He has been ACCUSED of going that fast by the > > > police accident investigation team. Their word is NOT > > > GOSPEL. Just ask any Charles County firefighter what they > > > thought of the MSP accident investigation team who cleared > > > murderer Jody Powell - still a deputy, BTW, despite no less > > > than 6 contradicting eyewitnesses, & dispatch records. > > > > > > Powell was the Ch. Co. Deputy who ran the 210 / 227 light, > > > killing a firefighter who had the green light. This was > > > suppressed by the MSP investigation team, but after a change > > > of venue to PG county, the family won $250k - the maximum > > > allowable by state law. The testimony showed that both > > > Charles county deputies and MSP filed false accident reports > > > accusing the firefighter of running the red light, when clear > > > eyewitness testimony from half a dozen witnesses contradicted > > > it. Those witnesses testified that they told MSP the deputy > > > was not using her lights, was accelerating when she impacted > > > the firefighter, and dispatch records revealed she had been > > > ordered off the call - which was a traffic stop that was > > > already over. > > > > > > > > > >Apparently stopping wasn't even an option. (The speed > > > >limit was 55.) > > > > > > [Dave] what the black box alleges he was doing over and above > > > the speed limit is irrelevant. What is relevant is that he > > > did not stop for the traffic sign (allegedly). If that is > > > proven, then let's hope he's going to be spending the > > > remainder of his life in the slammer. That said, just > > > because all the news outlets are reporting "he was going 70 > > > mph when he ran the stop sign" - doesn't make it true. > > > > > > > > > > But what really is terrible is that > > > >the WP reports that he's hired a private investigator > > > >to look into the background of the guy he killed. > > > > > > [Dave] That is pretty sleazy, if it's true. OTOH, keep in > > > mind that all the news agencies reporting this are indicating > > > he "was going 70mph when he ran the stop sign" - not "police > > > are accusing him of going 70mph and running a stop sign"... > > > resulting in death. > > > > > > >(Below are the > > > >links to the 2 articles.) > > > >http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22959- > > > 2003Aug20.html > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/21/national/21JANK.html > > > > > > > > > > [Dave] I don't have Times logon; The post headline is > > > ridiculous - but the article does begrudgingly state that > > > this is the police report. Still, the overall impression on > > > reading this is that the Police are stating fact, which is > > > misleading. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong - if the Congressman is found guilty, life > > > in prison or death are perfectly acceptable punishments are > > > fine by me... I just wish the news outlets would be a little > > > more fair in their coverage. > > > > > > > > > Dave Yates > > > > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:37:22 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Daniel H. Brown'" , Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:36:42 -0400 There is no money that can pay for a lost life. That's the point. The jack ass whould be locked up and the key should be thrown away. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel H. Brown [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > > > Most people would go > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:43:34 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:43:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: jmcgonigle@XXXXXX, "'Daniel H. Brown'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > There is no money that can pay for a lost life. That's > the point. The > jack ass whould be locked up and the key should be thrown > away. and your position is that we should forget about the financial impact upon the victim's family having just lost a breadwinner? responding to mr. brown's question, insurance would pay only if the insurance contract requires it. and trust me, the insurer will be vigorously looking to disclaim/deny/avoid coverage. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Daniel H. Brown [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a > lost life? > > > > > Most people would go > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:47:10 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:46:21 -0400 Don't assume defendant's are adequately insured. In many automobile cases the responsible driver has only $25K (VA) or $20K (MD) of coverage, if any. That is why you need to have at least $250K of under/uninsured coverage on your own policy. I also suggest at least $10K of med pay. Keep in mind that many health insurance policies now require you to reimburse the health insurance company if you recover from a 3rd party or your own med pay carrier. Thus, if your health insurance company or med pay carrier paid $50K towards your medical bills, that come out of your personal injury settlement after your lawyer has taken his fees and costs. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > > > Most people would go > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:47:53 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: Tom Gimer , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Um, Jim has never been one to do heavy thinking on this list. Its easier to spout right-wing propaganda that someone else told him about. --- Tom Gimer wrote: > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > There is no money that can pay for a lost life. > That's > > the point. The > > jack ass whould be locked up and the key should be > thrown > > away. > > and your position is that we should forget about the > financial impact upon the victim's family having > just lost > a breadwinner? > > responding to mr. brown's question, insurance would > pay > only if the insurance contract requires it. and > trust me, > the insurer will be vigorously looking to > disclaim/deny/avoid coverage. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Daniel H. Brown > [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like > this. > > > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay > for a > > lost life? > > > > > > > Most people would go > > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:49:10 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:49:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." , "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Roy: Good points. What if you do not have auto insurance, since you do not own a car. And you are a passenger in a car, or driving a rental that gets hit by an underinsured driver? Is there any coverage for this? Thanks --- "Roy D. Turner, Esq." wrote: > Don't assume defendant's are adequately insured. In > many automobile cases > the responsible driver has only $25K (VA) or $20K > (MD) of coverage, if any. > That is why you need to have at least $250K of > under/uninsured coverage on > your own policy. I also suggest at least $10K of > med pay. > > Keep in mind that many health insurance policies now > require you to > reimburse the health insurance company if you > recover from a 3rd party or > your own med pay carrier. Thus, if your health > insurance company or med pay > carrier paid $50K towards your medical bills, that > come out of your personal > injury settlement after your lawyer has taken his > fees and costs. > > Roy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Daniel H. Brown" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like > this. > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay > for a lost life? > > > > > Most people would go > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > > > > -- > > Dan Brown > > brown@XXXXXX > > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:50:53 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: Subject: SD Congressman Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:50:10 -0400 Don't assume defendant's are adequately insured. In many automobile cases the responsible driver has only $25K (VA) or $20K (MD) of coverage, if any. That is why you need to have at least $250K of under/uninsured coverage on your own policy. I also suggest at least $10K of med pay. Keep in mind that many health insurance policies now require you to reimburse the health insurance company if you recover from a 3rd party or your own med pay carrier. Thus, if your health insurance company or med pay carrier paid $50K towards your medical bills, that come out of your personal injury settlement after your lawyer has taken his fees and costs. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > > > Most people would go > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX > Roy D. Turner, Esq. www.cfolaw.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:56:40 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:55:21 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Larry Larson CC: Mike Bartman , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Larry Larson wrote: > >-- Mike "last (only) ticket paid was in 1978" Bartman -- > > Given the arbitrary nature of law enforcement and the > general flow rate of traffic, that has to be the result of > 25 years of not driving, dumb luck, or constituting a > mobile speed bump. > > It's about time you paid your fair share of taxes, Mike. > > -- Larry How true. People consider me a careful driver, but I average a tickee about every eight years. I figure the fine is *dues* for the speeders club :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 13:58:04 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: "Mark Kitchell" , "Daniel H. Brown" , Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:57:09 -0400 That is a complex question. Underinsured/uninsured (UIM) coverage may be available through the owner or the driver of the vehicle in which you are a passenger, or you may be able to use UIM coverage available under the auto policies of any persons you reside with. When driving a rental car, I would pay the extra charge to the rental car company to obtain at least $250K of UIM coverage. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." ; "Daniel H. Brown" ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:49 PM Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > Roy: > > Good points. What if you do not have auto insurance, > since you do not own a car. And you are a passenger > in a car, or driving a rental that gets hit by an > underinsured driver? Is there any coverage for this? > > Thanks > > --- "Roy D. Turner, Esq." wrote: > > Don't assume defendant's are adequately insured. In > > many automobile cases > > the responsible driver has only $25K (VA) or $20K > > (MD) of coverage, if any. > > That is why you need to have at least $250K of > > under/uninsured coverage on > > your own policy. I also suggest at least $10K of > > med pay. > > > > Keep in mind that many health insurance policies now > > require you to > > reimburse the health insurance company if you > > recover from a 3rd party or > > your own med pay carrier. Thus, if your health > > insurance company or med pay > > carrier paid $50K towards your medical bills, that > > come out of your personal > > injury settlement after your lawyer has taken his > > fees and costs. > > > > Roy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Daniel H. Brown" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like > > this. > > > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay > > for a lost life? > > > > > > > Most people would go > > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Dan Brown > > > brown@XXXXXX > > > > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:14:57 2003 Reply-To: From: "Jim McGonigle" To: "'Mark Kitchell'" , "'Tom Gimer'" , Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:14:17 -0400 Right on target, anyone that thinks different than a liberal is wrong. Sorry for expression an opinion. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:48 PM > To: Tom Gimer; dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > Um, Jim has never been one to do heavy thinking on > this list. Its easier to spout right-wing propaganda > that someone else told him about. > > > --- Tom Gimer wrote: > > --- Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > There is no money that can pay for a lost life. > > That's > > > the point. The > > > jack ass whould be locked up and the key should be > > thrown > > > away. > > > > and your position is that we should forget about the > > financial impact upon the victim's family having > > just lost > > a breadwinner? > > > > responding to mr. brown's question, insurance would > > pay > > only if the insurance contract requires it. and > > trust me, > > the insurer will be vigorously looking to > > disclaim/deny/avoid coverage. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Daniel H. Brown > > [mailto:brown@XXXXXX] > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:05 PM > > > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > > > Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like > > this. > > > > > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay > > for a > > > lost life? > > > > > > > > > Most people would go > > > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:26:44 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:25:25 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Daniel H. Brown" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > > > Most people would go > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > -- > Dan Brown > brown@XXXXXX True. Methinks my liability cap is 300K, so I'm well over the limit for Maryland. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:28:42 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:27:57 -0400 To: Larry Larson , Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag At 09:49 AM 8/21/03 -0700, Larry Larson wrote: >>-- Mike "last (only) ticket paid was in 1978" Bartman -- > >Given the arbitrary nature of law enforcement and the >general flow rate of traffic, that has to be the result of >25 years of not driving, dumb luck, or constituting a >mobile speed bump. I prefer to think of it as smart driving... :^) I don't tend to drive flashy sports cars. I don't try to be the fastest car on the road (or the slowest...I just tend to stay with the general flow). When traffic density drops enough, I slow down closer to the speed limit...fewer "targets" means I'm more likely to get chosen than when the cops have a "target rich" environment...particularly when there are always people there who are going faster than I am. I don't weave in and out of traffic...that just attracts attention. There's also a little bit of luck involved. I have been pulled over three other times since then, but didn't get tickets or didn't have to pay a fine. First one I got cautioned to take it slower (8 am on a Saturday morning, Rt. 3 going south towards the Virginia border doing 64 in a 55 zone, no other traffic to speak of...pull over promptly and safely, keep hands on wheel and wait for instructions, be polite to officer, don't lie about it, just get cautioned...and warned of a state police speed trap up the road). Second one was for making a U-turn at an intersection that had a no LEFT turn sign, but not a no U-turn sign. This was in the District (just barely), where apparently there are only a dozen or so intersections that allow U-turns, and those aren't posted...you just have to know where they are and that, unlike everywhere else in the area, U-turns aren't allowed at intersections. That one was a warning ticket...no other offenses in the next 3 years or something and it evaporates. Third one was also in the District. Entered an intersection with a yellow light (stopping would have gotten me rear-ended by the guy accelerating up on my bumper). It was still yellow as I passed the lights, which were on posts on the far side of the intersection. Pair of very rude black cops pulled me over a couple of blocks later and wrote up a ticket for running a red light...said I could just mail in the fine. I went to court instead. The cops were signed into the building, but couldn't be located at hearing time. This irked the administrative law judge, so she started without them and asked how I pled. I verified that the charge was that I entered an intersection on a red light, and that if the light was yellow, that was different...so I pled not guilty. She asked about injuries, and I said there was no accident, so she dismissed the charge and that was the end of it. I doubt that my sitting in the waiting area reading my Black's Law Dictionary and a copy of the Constitution had much to do with it... :^) Between luck and being careful about where and how much I bend the rules, it's been working ok for the last few decades. >It's about time you paid your fair share of taxes, Mike. Oh, I pay far more than that! I get about 15-20 mpg in my Jeep, so I pay lots of gas taxes, and I make more than the average person, so my income taxes are several times average too...in fact, back when I was married to a working wife with a good income, our combined income taxes were more than the average person makes in a year...that "marriage penalty" is very real! Even now the withholding on my paychecks is more than I made at my first job after graduation. They also just re-appraised my house, so my property taxes just went up another $600/year, the Montgomery County Council jumped the tax on electricity by 9%....etc., etc.. It's *almost* enough to make me turn to laziness and get an easier job that pays a lot less...but I think I'll get the Harley first! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:35:49 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 11:35:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: "William J. Huson" , "Daniel H. Brown" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX fyi: you may have already figured this out from prior posts, but there ain't a $250k limit in md.... --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a > lost life? > > > > > Most people would go > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > > -- > > Dan Brown > > brown@XXXXXX > > True. Methinks my liability cap is 300K, so I'm well > over the limit for > Maryland. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:38:05 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Rotary engines Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:37:54 -0400 > > From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > Date: 2003/08/21 Thu AM 09:24:59 EDT > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Rotary engines > > In a message dated 8/20/2003 3:31:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > charlieozark@XXXXXX writes: > > > so, lets hear it, what are the problems? and who wants to be the first to > > shoe-horn one into a stripped down goldwing? > > As stated there have been at least 3 rotary motorcycles, BSA, Hercules, and > Suzuki, all failed. > > As for problems the primary one is rotor tip wear, those tips have to remain > in contact with the walls of the combustion chamber at all times. Mazda would be surprised to hear that this problem hasn't been solved, as many RX-7 owners have happily gone well over 100K miles without knowing their rotor seals have failed. Bob Meyer '92 Standard STOC # 1157 If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:55:55 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:35:19 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag At 01:09 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >MikeB asks: >>even if that means we make them a percentage of what the >>perpetrator has, rather than a fixed dollar amount, or >>period of time in jail. > >[Dave] So, if a Bum with no assets kills a member of your >(in general, not specifically) family, he should get off for, >what? $0.05 ? Depends on what we all jointly decide is the proper percentage for murder, and what he has to his name. If we decide that it should be all of his worldly goods except the clothes on his back, and that amounts to a nickel, then yes. Society would pay whatever other amounts are considered due...from tax revenue. This would have several benefits: 1) it would make sure the victims are compensated no matter what resources the perpetrator has. 2) it would avoid the entirely unjust "deep pockets" idea where a 1% responsibility could see you paying 100% of the penalty. 3) it would give society a real reason to make sure that there aren't any members who have nothing to their name to risk losing. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:55:55 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:36:59 -0400 To: "Daniel H. Brown" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag At 01:05 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: >> >> And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > >Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? Sure...you can create another one a lot cheaper than that... Or, by another standard, life is priceless, so no amount will compensate for taking one. Any amount you pick is going to be pretty arbitrary. >> Most people would go >> bankrupt first so what does it matter? > >Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? In which case all of us would be paying. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 14:59:04 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:59:13 -0400 To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." , , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag At 01:36 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Roy D. Turner, Esq. wrote: >The final recovery the Plaintiff received was no where close to that amount. The point is that she shouldn't have received anything. If she wasn't aware that coffee is served hot, she had no business ordering it, or should have asked first...and she could have read the warning printed into the lid that says something along the lines of, "Caution: Coffee is hot!". That was there back in '73 when I was working for McD's, and I don't expect they've removed it (don't drink coffee, so I haven't looked recently). >I understand that in the McDonald's case the jury awarded punitive damages >based on McDonald's egregious conduct. I understand that the Plaintiff >suffered 3rd degree burns on her private parts. I understand that >McDonald's was aware that the temperature of its coffee caused several >persons to be burned prior to that incident. I also recall being told that >McDonald's sold the coffee at a very high temperature to discourage >customers from returning for free refills, as it took a long time for the >coffee cool down to a drinkable temperature. Just like the Ford Pinto case >years ago, I guess McDonald's believed the cost of jury awards/settlements >would be less than amount of dollars saved by their negligent conduct. How were they negligent? How was their conduct "egregious"?? They sell hot coffee. If they sell it too cool, people go elsewhere. People often come in and get coffee for co-workers and take it back to a work site, so cooling will happen in transit...starting it off hotter compensates for this. If you want it cooler, ask for some ice. The lady in question got it at the drive-up window, where most folks taking food elsewhere buy it. They have a warning on the cup that the contents are hot, and I don't recall any claim that the injured party was illiterate. Coffee is generally known to be made with very hot water...well above the temperature that will cause scalds and burns, so even children over the age of 6 or 7 are aware of the danger of mishandling it (I was anyway...used to get it for my parents at that age, and I knew what steam meant). Only an idiot would stick a cup of that stuff in their crotch and then claim surprise when they get burned, and it isn't reasonable to expect anyone else to predict such stupid behavior or to have to take steps to prevent it being done unless the potential victim is under their guardianship as an incompetent or something similar. This was a prime example of what's wrong with our civil court system. It's bad enough that it's having a big effect on our economy as companies either get out of, or never enter, certain businesses entirely, or raise their prices to cover moronic claims like this one and the associated liability insurance premiums, as well as the extra cost of pointless warning manuals, and "safety modifications" that often make the item more awkward to use. Society as a whole loses out due to the idiocy of certain members abusing the idea of "negligence" for fun and profit. Used to be that people would be too embarrassed to stand up in public and admit to such levels of stupidity, but in our current "victim worship" climate, they don't see a problem with it anymore, especially if they can win enough to retire on by doing so. >I do agree that frivolous law suits are filed. However, judges have the >authority to sanction attorneys who file such claims. Again, the problem >could be resolved if the judiciary were more active. Yep. Many frivolous cases are thrown out of court, but many aren't, and even the ones that are tie up the system while they are being processed to the point of dismissal. They should never have been filed in the first place. If the legal profession can't convince its members to avoid such things at a nearly 100% rate out of ethical considerations, perhaps it's time to provide some incentive? The "loser pays" system would do that with the right structure. There may be other ways to handle it too. >By the way, don't believe everything you read in the paper or hear on TV. That's certainly good advice! If the subject is gun control don't believe ANYTHING you read in the paper or hear on TV without checking it through other sources yourself. The bias levels in the popular media are huge, and they often lie, or make enormous mistakes out of ignorance and lack of care. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:00:36 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:59:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:05 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > >> > >> And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > > >Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a lost life? > > Sure...you can create another one a lot cheaper than that... The creation isn't (usually) the expensive part... it is everything that happens afterwards. :-) especially if there are motorcycles involved. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:16:49 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:16:38 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>[Dave] So, if a Bum with no assets kills a member of your >>(in general, not specifically) family, he should get off for, >>what? $0.05 ? > >Depends on what we all jointly decide is the proper >percentage for murder, and what he has to his name. If we >decide that it should be all of his worldly goods except the >clothes on his back, and that amounts to a nickel, >then yes. > >Society would pay whatever other amounts are considered >due...from tax revenue. This would have several benefits: [Dave] Essentially, you're saying that society as a whole should pay for the misdeeds of the poor. You're assertion here substitutes one set of bottomless pockets (taxpayers) for deep pockets (any other entity). I think the primary benefit from this plan would be ... bringing back the Communist party... Let's face it, the commies were good for our economy... >1) it would make sure the >victims are compensated no matter what resources the >perpetrator has. [Dave] All on the dole of the taxpayers... >2)it would avoid the entirely unjust "deep pockets" idea >where a 1% responsibility could see you paying 100% of the >penalty. [Dave] Also, it would assign blame to ... taxpayers, even if they're less than 1% responsible, they're still paying, and still to blame. >3) it would give society a real reason to make sure that >there aren't any members who have nothing to their name to >risk losing. [Dave] Nothing like negative reinforcement... Anyway, Congressman referenced in the original email hasn't been convicted just yet. Nor held liable. Regardless of what he should or shouldn't "Get" if convicted, the victim was a biker, and could easily have been one of us... Let's pray it's not ever. Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:17:20 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: "Tom Gimer" , "William J. Huson" , "Daniel H. Brown" Cc: Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:12:52 -0400 Tom: Is there a $ cap for State of Maryland Tort Claims actions similar to the Virginia Tort Claims Act (VTCA) or the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA) caps? Perhaps the case referred to was a Maryland Tort Claims action, or perhaps the author was confused and there simply was only a total of $250K of liability/UIM insurance coverage available. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gimer" To: "William J. Huson" ; "Daniel H. Brown" Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > fyi: > you may have already figured this out from prior posts, but > there ain't a $250k limit in md.... > > > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 21 Aug 2003, Jim McGonigle wrote: > > > > > > > > And yes, $250k is plenty for something like this. > > > > > > Really? $250K, minus legal fees is enough to pay for a > > lost life? > > > > > > > Most people would go > > > > bankrupt first so what does it matter? > > > > > > Actually insurance would pay, wouldn't it? > > > > > > -- > > > Dan Brown > > > brown@XXXXXX > > > > True. Methinks my liability cap is 300K, so I'm well > > over the limit for > > Maryland. > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:31:02 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: , , "Mike Bartman" Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:30:01 -0400 Just to let you know, if the McDonald's case had been tried in Virginia, the plaintiff probably would have lost if the only theory put to the jury was simple negligence. Virginia applies the theory of contributory negligence. Thus, if a plaintiff's is negligent, (no matter how much or how little), and his/her negligence is a proximate cause of the injury, the plaintiff cannot recover. The vast majority of states use the theory of comparative negligence. In those states, the plaintiff usually can prevail if his/her negligence is less than 50%. The award is usually reduced by the percentage the jury finds the plaintiff was negligent. I bet CA (the land of the fruits and nuts) is a comparative negligence jurisdiction. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bartman" To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > At 01:36 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Roy D. Turner, Esq. wrote: > >The final recovery the Plaintiff received was no where close to that amount. > > The point is that she shouldn't have received anything. If she wasn't > aware that coffee is served hot, she had no business ordering it, or should > have asked first...and she could have read the warning printed into the lid > that says something along the lines of, "Caution: Coffee is hot!". That > was there back in '73 when I was working for McD's, and I don't expect > they've removed it (don't drink coffee, so I haven't looked recently). > > >I understand that in the McDonald's case the jury awarded punitive damages > >based on McDonald's egregious conduct. I understand that the Plaintiff > >suffered 3rd degree burns on her private parts. I understand that > >McDonald's was aware that the temperature of its coffee caused several > >persons to be burned prior to that incident. I also recall being told that > >McDonald's sold the coffee at a very high temperature to discourage > >customers from returning for free refills, as it took a long time for the > >coffee cool down to a drinkable temperature. Just like the Ford Pinto case > >years ago, I guess McDonald's believed the cost of jury awards/settlements > >would be less than amount of dollars saved by their negligent conduct. > > How were they negligent? How was their conduct "egregious"?? They sell > hot coffee. If they sell it too cool, people go elsewhere. People often > come in and get coffee for co-workers and take it back to a work site, so > cooling will happen in transit...starting it off hotter compensates for > this. If you want it cooler, ask for some ice. The lady in question got > it at the drive-up window, where most folks taking food elsewhere buy it. > They have a warning on the cup that the contents are hot, and I don't > recall any claim that the injured party was illiterate. Coffee is > generally known to be made with very hot water...well above the temperature > that will cause scalds and burns, so even children over the age of 6 or 7 > are aware of the danger of mishandling it (I was anyway...used to get it > for my parents at that age, and I knew what steam meant). Only an idiot > would stick a cup of that stuff in their crotch and then claim surprise > when they get burned, and it isn't reasonable to expect anyone else to > predict such stupid behavior or to have to take steps to prevent it being > done unless the potential victim is under their guardianship as an > incompetent or something similar. > > This was a prime example of what's wrong with our civil court system. It's > bad enough that it's having a big effect on our economy as companies either > get out of, or never enter, certain businesses entirely, or raise their > prices to cover moronic claims like this one and the associated liability > insurance premiums, as well as the extra cost of pointless warning manuals, > and "safety modifications" that often make the item more awkward to use. > > Society as a whole loses out due to the idiocy of certain members abusing > the idea of "negligence" for fun and profit. Used to be that people would > be too embarrassed to stand up in public and admit to such levels of > stupidity, but in our current "victim worship" climate, they don't see a > problem with it anymore, especially if they can win enough to retire on by > doing so. > > >I do agree that frivolous law suits are filed. However, judges have the > >authority to sanction attorneys who file such claims. Again, the problem > >could be resolved if the judiciary were more active. > > Yep. Many frivolous cases are thrown out of court, but many aren't, and > even the ones that are tie up the system while they are being processed to > the point of dismissal. They should never have been filed in the first > place. If the legal profession can't convince its members to avoid such > things at a nearly 100% rate out of ethical considerations, perhaps it's > time to provide some incentive? The "loser pays" system would do that with > the right structure. There may be other ways to handle it too. > > >By the way, don't believe everything you read in the paper or hear on TV. > > That's certainly good advice! If the subject is gun control don't believe > ANYTHING you read in the paper or hear on TV without checking it through > other sources yourself. The bias levels in the popular media are huge, and > they often lie, or make enormous mistakes out of ignorance and lack of care. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * > **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:32:29 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:32:39 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag At 03:16 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: >>Society would pay whatever other amounts are considered >>due...from tax revenue. This would have several benefits: > >[Dave] Essentially, you're saying that society as a whole >should pay for the misdeeds of the poor. No, the poor would pay as much as anyone else...that's your incentive not to cause a problem in the first place. It does somewhat remove the ability for the rich to hurt people just because they can afford to though. Society as a whole will take care of those members that need taking care of, while at the same time trying to make sure that the need to do so is minimized. What do you see wrong with that? >You're assertion >here substitutes one set of bottomless pockets (taxpayers) >for deep pockets (any other entity). You are confusing punishment with compensation. The two sometimes overlap, but the intentions are very different. If we are going to have those who aren't really responsible paying for an injury, doesn't it make sense to spread the pain as far as possible, rather than to semi-arbitrarily single out some poor shmoe to pay the whole freight? Would you feel different if the deep pockets were yours? >>1) it would make sure the >>victims are compensated no matter what resources the >>perpetrator has. > >[Dave] All on the dole of the taxpayers... As opposed to on the dole of a single taxpayer who wasn't really at fault either? Yep! Sounds good to me! The alternative is no compensation at all in some cases. Also, remember that in cases where the perpetrator has sufficient resources, there will be no need for taxpayers to pick up anything. They are only filling in the gaps between what the perpetrator can pay and what the actual damages are. >>2)it would avoid the entirely unjust "deep pockets" idea >>where a 1% responsibility could see you paying 100% of the >>penalty. > >[Dave] Also, it would assign blame to ... taxpayers, even if >they're less than 1% responsible, they're still paying, and >still to blame. Not at all. "Blame" and "payment" are two separate ideas here. We are talking about compensation, not punishment, when we are talking about the "gap fill" money. >>3) it would give society a real reason to make sure that >>there aren't any members who have nothing to their name to >>risk losing. > >[Dave] Nothing like negative reinforcement... How so? You'd live in abject poverty just so you could hurt people and not have to pay them anything? You could still sit in jail for punishment... >From a social standpoint it is positive reinforcement, unless you consider everyone living better a Bad Thing (tm) or something? >Anyway, Congressman referenced in the original email hasn't >been convicted just yet. Nor held liable. Regardless of >what he should or shouldn't "Get" if convicted, the victim >was a biker, and could easily have been one of us... Let's >pray it's not ever. We are in full agreement about each of these points. I think we should give the bastard a fair trial, then hang him! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 15:57:12 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:56:05 -0400 To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: RE: SD Congressman real scumbag At 03:32 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote: >At 03:16 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Dave Yates wrote: > >>>Society would pay whatever other amounts are considered >>>due...from tax revenue. This would have several benefits: >> >>[Dave] Essentially, you're saying that society as a whole >>should pay for the misdeeds of the poor. > >No, the poor would pay as much as anyone else...that's your incentive not >to cause a problem in the first place. It does somewhat remove the ability >for the rich to hurt people just because they can afford to though. Oh, one other aspect of this idea: since we will be assessing fines as a percentage of net worth and/or income, there will be "extra" funds left when a rich person does something that doesn't require so much compensation money to the victim. This will leave a pool of funds that can be used to cover, or at least partially cover, the lack of penalty money in cases where a poor person is at fault. The taxpayers would only come into it when this pool was insufficient. Given that there are more poor people at the moment than rich ones, this is likely to be the case, but is a good reason for society to try to help more people go from poor to rich... Of course my whole plan does rely on people as a whole acting rationally, so perhaps it's doomed from the outset... -- Mike Bartman **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 16:05:20 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On the coffee subject, I read an ariticle about this case. It was a bit more complicated than people remember. The coffee at McDonald's was actually significantly hotter than normal restaurant coffee. Why? Well, McD did not use 100% coffee. Rather, there was some filler (much like erzatz coffee from WWII). The coffee was extremely hot so we the consumer could not tell the difference. One result of the lawsuit was that they now use 100% coffee. PS: Mike, how do you have the time to write 10 paragraph responses to each question? I want your job. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:36 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Roy D. Turner, Esq. > wrote: > >The final recovery the Plaintiff received was no > where close to that amount. > > The point is that she shouldn't have received > anything. If she wasn't > aware that coffee is served hot, she had no business > ordering it, or should > have asked first...and she could have read the > warning printed into the lid > that says something along the lines of, "Caution: > Coffee is hot!". That > was there back in '73 when I was working for McD's, > and I don't expect > they've removed it (don't drink coffee, so I haven't > looked recently). > > >I understand that in the McDonald's case the jury > awarded punitive damages > >based on McDonald's egregious conduct. I > understand that the Plaintiff > >suffered 3rd degree burns on her private parts. I > understand that > >McDonald's was aware that the temperature of its > coffee caused several > >persons to be burned prior to that incident. I > also recall being told that > >McDonald's sold the coffee at a very high > temperature to discourage > >customers from returning for free refills, as it > took a long time for the > >coffee cool down to a drinkable temperature. Just > like the Ford Pinto case > >years ago, I guess McDonald's believed the cost of > jury awards/settlements > >would be less than amount of dollars saved by their > negligent conduct. > > How were they negligent? How was their conduct > "egregious"?? They sell > hot coffee. If they sell it too cool, people go > elsewhere. People often > come in and get coffee for co-workers and take it > back to a work site, so > cooling will happen in transit...starting it off > hotter compensates for > this. If you want it cooler, ask for some ice. The > lady in question got > it at the drive-up window, where most folks taking > food elsewhere buy it. > They have a warning on the cup that the contents are > hot, and I don't > recall any claim that the injured party was > illiterate. Coffee is > generally known to be made with very hot > water...well above the temperature > that will cause scalds and burns, so even children > over the age of 6 or 7 > are aware of the danger of mishandling it (I was > anyway...used to get it > for my parents at that age, and I knew what steam > meant). Only an idiot > would stick a cup of that stuff in their crotch and > then claim surprise > when they get burned, and it isn't reasonable to > expect anyone else to > predict such stupid behavior or to have to take > steps to prevent it being > done unless the potential victim is under their > guardianship as an > incompetent or something similar. > > This was a prime example of what's wrong with our > civil court system. It's > bad enough that it's having a big effect on our > economy as companies either > get out of, or never enter, certain businesses > entirely, or raise their > prices to cover moronic claims like this one and the > associated liability > insurance premiums, as well as the extra cost of > pointless warning manuals, > and "safety modifications" that often make the item > more awkward to use. > > Society as a whole loses out due to the idiocy of > certain members abusing > the idea of "negligence" for fun and profit. Used > to be that people would > be too embarrassed to stand up in public and admit > to such levels of > stupidity, but in our current "victim worship" > climate, they don't see a > problem with it anymore, especially if they can win > enough to retire on by > doing so. > > >I do agree that frivolous law suits are filed. > However, judges have the > >authority to sanction attorneys who file such > claims. Again, the problem > >could be resolved if the judiciary were more > active. > > Yep. Many frivolous cases are thrown out of court, > but many aren't, and > even the ones that are tie up the system while they > are being processed to > the point of dismissal. They should never have been > filed in the first > place. If the legal profession can't convince its > members to avoid such > things at a nearly 100% rate out of ethical > considerations, perhaps it's > time to provide some incentive? The "loser pays" > system would do that with > the right structure. There may be other ways to > handle it too. > > >By the way, don't believe everything you read in > the paper or hear on TV. > > That's certainly good advice! If the subject is gun > control don't believe > ANYTHING you read in the paper or hear on TV without > checking it through > other sources yourself. The bias levels in the > popular media are huge, and > they often lie, or make enormous mistakes out of > ignorance and lack of care. > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 16:09:59 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:09:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Description of the car and motorcycle in SD accident To: DC Cycles Scary... Janklow going 70-75 mph at time of crash By CARSON WALKER, Associated Press Writer SIOUX FALLS - Earlier Wednesday, the South Dakota Highway Patrol took the unusual step of allowing reporters to view and photograph Janklow)B’s car and Scott’s motorcycle. Based on the damage, it)B’s likely Janklow would have suffered far more serious injuries had the bike hit the driver)B’s side door instead of the back left passenger door. The off-white Cadillac DeVille looks like someone stripped away much of the back half of the left side of the car and the trunk. The outside panel of the back door is gone, though the upper frame hangs free. The inside frame of the door panel is pushed into the passenger cabin at least 1 foot and perhaps as much as 2 feet where the motorcycle hit. The back quarter panel is dented and scraped. An exterior cell phone antenna dangles from outside the shattered back window. The left tire and wheel are torn off and it appears the force of the impact pushed the axle so the right wheel is bent in. Even the tail pipe and muffler are bowed inward. The front half and the passenger side of the car appear largely untouched, except for a smashed windshield and a scrape across the left front of the hood, likely from when the car ran over a county road sign before ending up in a soybean field about 300 feet from the impact site. Both front air bags deployed and a Taco John)B’s cup still sits on the front seat. Scott)B’s Harley-Davidson is twisted and bent from front to back. The front fork, all the foot pedals and the handle bar are crooked. The front fender is pinched in between the bars that once held the wheel, which lays next to the back of the bike. The dark green gas tanks emblazoned with )B“Harley-Davidson USA” are depressed on both sides. Even the back wheel is twisted and rests on the left exhaust pipe. The left side of the engine remains intact, but the right side shows part of the electrical system and some of the gears. A weed wrapped itself around the front of the right exhaust. The black leather seat is mostly brown with dirt and the headlight and gauges are gone. ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 16:20:40 2003 Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." To: Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:19:42 -0400 Here is a site that provides more details about the McDonald's coffee case: http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm It was astutely pointed out to me that the case was actually heard in New Mexico. Roy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag > On the coffee subject, I read an ariticle about this > case. It was a bit more complicated than people > remember. The coffee at McDonald's was actually > significantly hotter than normal restaurant coffee. > Why? Well, McD did not use 100% coffee. Rather, > there was some filler (much like erzatz coffee from > WWII). The coffee was extremely hot so we the > consumer could not tell the difference. One result of > the lawsuit was that they now use 100% coffee. > > PS: Mike, how do you have the time to write 10 > paragraph responses to each question? I want your > job. > > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 01:36 PM 8/21/03 -0400, Roy D. Turner, Esq. > > wrote: > > >The final recovery the Plaintiff received was no > > where close to that amount. > > > > The point is that she shouldn't have received > > anything. If she wasn't > > aware that coffee is served hot, she had no business > > ordering it, or should > > have asked first...and she could have read the > > warning printed into the lid > > that says something along the lines of, "Caution: > > Coffee is hot!". That > > was there back in '73 when I was working for McD's, > > and I don't expect > > they've removed it (don't drink coffee, so I haven't > > looked recently). > > > > >I understand that in the McDonald's case the jury > > awarded punitive damages > > >based on McDonald's egregious conduct. I > > understand that the Plaintiff > > >suffered 3rd degree burns on her private parts. I > > understand that > > >McDonald's was aware that the temperature of its > > coffee caused several > > >persons to be burned prior to that incident. I > > also recall being told that > > >McDonald's sold the coffee at a very high > > temperature to discourage > > >customers from returning for free refills, as it > > took a long time for the > > >coffee cool down to a drinkable temperature. Just > > like the Ford Pinto case > > >years ago, I guess McDonald's believed the cost of > > jury awards/settlements > > >would be less than amount of dollars saved by their > > negligent conduct. > > > > How were they negligent? How was their conduct > > "egregious"?? They sell > > hot coffee. If they sell it too cool, people go > > elsewhere. People often > > come in and get coffee for co-workers and take it > > back to a work site, so > > cooling will happen in transit...starting it off > > hotter compensates for > > this. If you want it cooler, ask for some ice. The > > lady in question got > > it at the drive-up window, where most folks taking > > food elsewhere buy it. > > They have a warning on the cup that the contents are > > hot, and I don't > > recall any claim that the injured party was > > illiterate. Coffee is > > generally known to be made with very hot > > water...well above the temperature > > that will cause scalds and burns, so even children > > over the age of 6 or 7 > > are aware of the danger of mishandling it (I was > > anyway...used to get it > > for my parents at that age, and I knew what steam > > meant). Only an idiot > > would stick a cup of that stuff in their crotch and > > then claim surprise > > when they get burned, and it isn't reasonable to > > expect anyone else to > > predict such stupid behavior or to have to take > > steps to prevent it being > > done unless the potential victim is under their > > guardianship as an > > incompetent or something similar. > > > > This was a prime example of what's wrong with our > > civil court system. It's > > bad enough that it's having a big effect on our > > economy as companies either > > get out of, or never enter, certain businesses > > entirely, or raise their > > prices to cover moronic claims like this one and the > > associated liability > > insurance premiums, as well as the extra cost of > > pointless warning manuals, > > and "safety modifications" that often make the item > > more awkward to use. > > > > Society as a whole loses out due to the idiocy of > > certain members abusing > > the idea of "negligence" for fun and profit. Used > > to be that people would > > be too embarrassed to stand up in public and admit > > to such levels of > > stupidity, but in our current "victim worship" > > climate, they don't see a > > problem with it anymore, especially if they can win > > enough to retire on by > > doing so. > > > > >I do agree that frivolous law suits are filed. > > However, judges have the > > >authority to sanction attorneys who file such > > claims. Again, the problem > > >could be resolved if the judiciary were more > > active. > > > > Yep. Many frivolous cases are thrown out of court, > > but many aren't, and > > even the ones that are tie up the system while they > > are being processed to > > the point of dismissal. They should never have been > > filed in the first > > place. If the legal profession can't convince its > > members to avoid such > > things at a nearly 100% rate out of ethical > > considerations, perhaps it's > > time to provide some incentive? The "loser pays" > > system would do that with > > the right structure. There may be other ways to > > handle it too. > > > > >By the way, don't believe everything you read in > > the paper or hear on TV. > > > > That's certainly good advice! If the subject is gun > > control don't believe > > ANYTHING you read in the paper or hear on TV without > > checking it through > > other sources yourself. The bias levels in the > > popular media are huge, and > > they often lie, or make enormous mistakes out of > > ignorance and lack of care. > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > > Obfuscation Obliterated * > > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > > Opinions Offered * > > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > > Smiles Stimulated * > > > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > > price too high! * > > > **************************************************************************** > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 16:31:35 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 15:33:14 -0500 On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:05:06 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > PS: Mike, how do you have the time to write 10 > paragraph responses to each question? I want your > job. I work from home/road as a consultant and I probaly have a high level of free time and I can't even keep up reading the emails. -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/ISSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 17:20:21 2003 From: "stephen" To: Subject: Off-Topic: MD cage emissions inspection tale Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:20:19 -0400 No M/C content whatsoever, but for the MDers on the list, this sort of thing should be known: This story is about my '94 Chev Caprice emissions inspection at the PG county inspection station near 50 & Ardwick/Ardmore. Last week, I replaced the AIR check valves and the AIR pump, as well as the oil and filter Just to be sure! I'd replaced the failed left O2 sensor about a month ago. Boy, did it run better after that. Anyway, on to the inspection. Stopped in to get the car inspected on Tuesday. The day was pretty hot (~90)B°), and my AC is not working (hey, it's an ex-police car). I ran to BWI and back on the highway to drop the SO off and thought it would be a good time to get it done. Needless to say, the engine was hot from the highway and then I was sitting for ten minutes waiting for the booth to be ready, the engine ran up to the top of the "normal" range (stock 195)B° thermostat). Which is pretty normal idling on a hot day. I roll the car in. The woman checks the gas cap and has the supervisor come over (eventually got an "advisory fail" whatever that means). Next it should've been on to the dyno, but the woman called me back from the waiting booth. She thought the car was too hot. I said it's normal and the supervisor came back over and told me the car is too hot to run. He said he was not going to argue about it and to take the car around to the front, get my $14 back and go find out what to do from the man. The car wasn't running in the red, but at this point, I sure was!!! I turned the heat on anyway for a little extra cooling to attempt to placate the morons. Around the front and first thing, I have to wait and wait as there's nobody on the desk. Everyone at there desk is looking "extra-busy". Then I get to telling the guy about them deciding not to run the test. He said the supervisor makes the decision and what did he say. I said that the woman thought the cab was too hot. She also mentioned that the temperature gauge was too high, but I didn't start on about that. Gotta have a strategy. The guy said that it wasn't his decision and that it was the manager's decision. I said that his decision was completely arbitrary and not based on any sort of measurement and that the car was running normally. I offered to show the desk guy the car and ranted some more. "The law requires me to come here and with no testing whatsoever, your capricious manager decides he's going to turn me away and waste my time ... " bla bla bla He told me to lower my voice (I guess I was getting a tad loud -- outside voice?) and that he would look at the gauge. I said "great" and shut up! He then went out the back door. I waited for him, not knowing where he had gone, and then he came back to the front door and asked me if I was coming! Communication was a little strained. We went to look at the car. The gauge was high, but still just below the top of the 'normal' range. He brought the manager back out and they looked at it together. I ranted a bit more about the stock 195)B° thermostat. Somehow they managed to agree to test the car. I took it around to the same woman. That was a mistake. She was apparently steamed that her observation that the car is running "too hot to test" was overruled. I surmised this later. She ran the gas cap check again and the manager dude okayed it I guess (that advisory fail thing). She got on with the check. I could tell that she was hammering the gas because I was five feet away from the beastie when she was doing it and I could hear the motor roaring, and never mind the way the car is jerking back and forth on the dyno. None of the other cars did that. She's got a speed ramp to follow. There's obviously a range of speeds that are acceptable as she coasted down to between just a bit slow (flashing yellow) through the test speed, and into too high (flashing yellow and the odd red). She ran this saw tooth approach through the whole test. Even during the steady speed sections she let the speed drop, and then hammered the throttle. I was sure the car was going to fail inspection the way she was putting her foot into it. Anyway, to make this long story slightly shorter, she finished the test and rolled the car off the dyno grabbed the printout, called me over, handed me the printout and uttered a slightly dejected "There you go" before ambling off. "Pass" Inspection it read. I was frankly astonished. I reviewed it and compared it to my last year's inspection. It squeaked by the Hydrocarbons: 0.9978GPM vs 1.0000 GPM state acceptable level. Here's a comparison between this inspection and my last. Last inspection (150,000 miles) HC CO NOx CO2 State 1.2 20 2.5 Me .07 .2 0 22.6 This inspection (165,000 miles) HC CO NOx CO2 State 1.0 20 2.2 Me .998 9.24 1.78 492.52 Total mileage difference between the two readings: ~15,000 miles But the beastie passed despite her best efforts! Operator 7739 .. slightly overweight black woman in the leftmost lane (#1) wearing oh-too-cool shades. To be avoided, and should probably be prosecuted with attempted fraud for deliberately attempting to fail the car. I decided to take two days to cool down before writing this or it might've come off a little more .. err .. hostile? Stephen From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 17:34:29 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:29:20 -0400 To: Mark Kitchell , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag At 01:05 PM 8/21/03 -0700, Mark Kitchell wrote: >On the coffee subject, I read an ariticle about this >case. It was a bit more complicated than people >remember. The coffee at McDonald's was actually >significantly hotter than normal restaurant coffee. Does that mean that there would have been no injury had it been the same temperature as "normal restaurant coffee"? I doubt it. If the lady commonly dumped "normal restaurant coffee" into her lap without injury, then I might be willing to agree that there was something different about McD's coffee that changed the situation, but I don't think that's the case. Any hot coffee is going to injure you if you stuff a cup of it into your crotch and squeeze until it spills. McD's warning about the coffee being hot should also be taken into account. It's not like they sold it to a child or something...she was an adult and should have known better. >PS: Mike, how do you have the time to write 10 >paragraph responses to each question? Two factors: 1) I type really fast (almost as fast as I talk), 2) some days my job consists of building software, then testing it, then fixing it, then building it again. That cycle can repeat a lot of times, and while the build is running, there's not a lot to do once I've handled any work-related mail. On the other hand, some days don't end until 2am. You want it, you can have it! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 19:58:31 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:13 -0400 Subject: Best info on SD Congressman From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles As I mentioned in my previous post I know this pond scum from way back. If he is convicted of something serious as a result of this incident it will not be near enough for his previous transgressions. Go to www.argusleader.com - the local newspaper and note the number of times he has used the excuse of another car in his lane. You will see the kind of guy he is. I think the Sturgis Rally is currently underway. I wish there were some way to give everyone his home address where he "is resting", so that those folks could pay him a visit on their way home. My motorcycle brand National Rally is supposed to be in South Dakota next year. If this pos isn't sent jail, I will do everything I can to get the site changed. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 20:15:01 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:14:40 EDT Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/21/2003 1:56:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > How true. People consider me a careful driver, but I average a tickee > about every eight years. As far as I am concerned the only valid safety criteria is miles/accidents. Speeding tickets are really irrelevant as a measure of safe driving/riding. Our Congressman had something like 10 accidents in as many years if I remember right, there is no excuse for his still having a license to drive with a record like that. He was going to kill someone sooner or later. If he had hit the motorcyclist as described at 50mph. the rider would still have died. Speed does not seem to have caused the accident, running a stop sign did. Throw the bum in jail, do not let him out until the rider comes back to life. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 20:24:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:24:08 EDT Subject: Re: Rotary engines To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/21/2003 2:38:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmeyer9@XXXXXX writes: > Mazda would be surprised to hear that this problem hasn't been solved, Did I say that? I said the three bikes failed. They did not sell worth a damn. Rotor tips are a weak link in a Wankel, just like rings are a weak link in a piston engine. Every machine has a weak link, hell every _thing_ has a weak link. (MS for instance #:-( > ) Obviously Mazda has done a good job with rotor tips or there would be no Mazda rotaries on the road today. Hell I _like_ rotaries and want one. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 20:33:49 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:33:42 EDT Subject: Re: Best info on SD Congressman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/21/2003 7:58:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bmckeithen@XXXXXX writes: > My motorcycle brand National Rally is supposed to be in South Dakota next > year. Tell us the brand in case we can help move it. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 20:38:45 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:38:26 EDT Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/21/2003 3:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > .and she could have read the warning printed into the lid > that says something along the lines of, "Caution: Coffee is hot!". Mc Dees had been warned numerous times and had ignored the warnings. I never ordered their coffee because it was so damn hot. And as far as reading the warning on the lid _There_was_no_warning_! The warning on all lids/cups today was put there in response to this lawsuit. Now the woman who successfully sued (overturned later) because she lost her psychic powers due to an accident...... Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 21:42:31 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:42:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Best info on SD Congressman John wrote: > Tell us the brand in case we can help move it. IIRC, Bob rides a Moto Guzzi... so far as I know, he's the only one on the list who does. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 21 22:43:44 2003 Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:38:32 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: Janklow X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out005.verizon.net from [141.157.40.190] at Thu, 21 Aug 2003 21:43:32 -0500 Here's what I posted to the SD Argus Leader........................................................ Editor, Janklow killed a motorcyclist. Janklow's driving and accident record shows he has a complete disregard for those he shares the road with. To me, that rates a second degree murder charge, but I'm not familiar with South Dakota laws. My question is, what would your courts say if the victim would have been a 6 year old little girl, crossing the street? Does Mr. Scott's use of a motorcycle as transportation mean any less? Steven C. Di Pietro National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 01:23:09 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 01:21:39 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: SD Congressman real scumbag At 08:38 PM 8/21/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >In a message dated 8/21/2003 3:03:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >omni@XXXXXX writes: > >> .and she could have read the warning printed into the lid >> that says something along the lines of, "Caution: Coffee is hot!". > >Mc Dees had been warned numerous times and had ignored the warnings. No warnings...they had something like 700 prior burn situations. That's very different. That's like telling Stihl that since people cut themselves on their chainsaw blades, they should sell duller blades, and when they keep selling sharp ones, claiming that they "ignored the warnings". Some things are inherently dangerous if they are to do the job. >And as far as reading the >warning on the lid _There_was_no_warning_! The warning on all lids/cups today was put there in response to this lawsuit. Really? I seem to remember seeing warnings a long time ago, but maybe I'm remembering the apple pies (now sold luke warm rather than hot). I figured the name "Hot Apple Pie" should have been enough, but there was an additional "Caution: filling is hot" anyway. I don't drink coffee, so I'm not all that familiar with the situation and my working at a McD's was about 1973. Still, what adult isn't aware that coffee is "burn you" hot? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 10:11:59 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:11:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Isaac Blanck Subject: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX So sayeth the WP. They say there's talk that he won't serve out his term and that there'd be a special election for his seat. Let's hope it actually happens. Also of note in today's Post is that it reports that the accident was such that the motorcyclist would've died even had he been wearing a helmet. Finally, they say that Janklow, contrary to their earlier reports, did not hire a private investigoator. It turns out that the PI who said he'd been hired by Janklow just "made up" the story. Here are links to the WP and the NYTimes articles. The WP has more detail generally, altho the NYT articles has more on the PI angle. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28848-2003Aug21.html http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Janklow-Accident.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 10:21:12 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:21:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End To: Isaac Blanck , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Since most of the neocons on this list (joking, calm down) don't read the Times, here is the article (you need to register to read the nyt online) Man Says S.D.'s Janklow Didn't Hire Him By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 10:11 p.m. ET SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) -- A man who claimed he was hired by Rep. Bill Janklow to gather information from a deadly traffic accident said Thursday that he made up the story. The Washington Post reported that Jim Wainscoat, who called himself a former District of Columbia police officer, said he had been hired by the former South Dakota governor's family to compile information about the accident and the motorcyclist who died. Reached by telephone Thursday, Wainscoat confirmed that he in fact was not hired. He said he just wanted to use his skills and scour the accident scene for evidence because he thought news reports about the accident have been slanted against Janklow. ``There's more to the story than is coming across in the media,'' said Wainscoat, 62, of Viborg. Janklow strongly denied the report. ``This guy's just a liar and he's invented this,'' Janklow said in a brief telephone interview with The Associated Press. ``It isn't just a matter of denying it. It never happened. ... I don't even know who he is.'' Investigators say Janklow was driving about 20 mph over the speed limit when he ran a stop sign Saturday at a rural intersection in eastern South Dakota and collided with a Harley-Davidson driven by Randolph Scott, who died at the scene. Authorities said Janklow was doing an estimated 70 mph to 75 mph before the crash; the speed limit is 55. Moody County prosecutor William Ellingson is reviewing an investigative report into the crash and deciding whether to charge Janklow, who was elected to South Dakota's lone House seat last year. The Republican previously served four years as state attorney general in the 1970s and 16 years as governor. Possible charges include second-degree manslaughter, a felony, and reckless driving, a misdemeanor. The family has notified law officers to have Wainscoat questioned, said Russ Janklow, the congressman's son. ``I can't imagine in America that (someone) can just walk around and just start representing to people he's been hired and newspapers print this,'' Russ Janklow said. He said Wainscoat stopped at Janklow's home in Brandon on Thursday and tried to talk with the congressman's wife, Mary Dean Janklow, ``telling her he's a retired D.C. police officer and he loves my dad and he's out here trying to do an investigation and thinks the Highway Patrol missed a bunch of stuff.'' Wainscoat confirmed that he stopped at Janklow's home and that Russ Janklow ``was a little disturbed'' that he was there. --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > So sayeth the WP. They say there's talk that he > won't > serve out his term and that there'd be a special > election for his seat. Let's hope it actually > happens. Also of note in today's Post is that it > reports that the accident was such that the > motorcyclist would've died even had he been wearing > a > helmet. Finally, they say that Janklow, contrary to > their earlier reports, did not hire a private > investigoator. It turns out that the PI who said > he'd > been hired by Janklow just "made up" the story. > Here > are links to the WP and the NYTimes articles. The > WP > has more detail generally, altho the NYT articles > has > more on the PI angle. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28848-2003Aug21.html > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Janklow-Accident.html > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 10:34:01 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:35:41 -0500 Us neocons like our reporting with a certain level of truth and proof behind it. We all know the times goes hand in hand with the PI, they like to make things up! Rob On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:21:10 -0700 (PDT), Mark Kitchell wrote > Since most of the neocons on this list (joking, calm > down) don't read the Times, here is the article (you > need to register to read the nyt online) > > Man Says S.D.'s Janklow Didn't Hire Him > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > > > Filed at 10:11 p.m. ET > > SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) -- A man who claimed he was > hired by Rep. Bill Janklow to gather information from > a deadly traffic accident said Thursday that he made > up the story. > > The Washington Post reported that Jim Wainscoat, who > called himself a former District of Columbia police > officer, said he had been hired by the former South > Dakota governor's family to compile information about > the accident and the motorcyclist who died. > > Reached by telephone Thursday, Wainscoat confirmed > that he in fact was not hired. He said he just wanted > to use his skills and scour the accident scene for > evidence because he thought news reports about the > accident have been slanted against Janklow. > > ``There's more to the story than is coming across in > the media,'' said Wainscoat, 62, of Viborg. > > Janklow strongly denied the report. > > ``This guy's just a liar and he's invented this,'' > Janklow said in a brief telephone interview with The > Associated Press. > > ``It isn't just a matter of denying it. It never > happened. ... I don't even know who he is.'' > > Investigators say Janklow was driving about 20 mph > over the speed limit when he ran a stop sign Saturday > at a rural intersection in eastern South Dakota and > collided with a Harley-Davidson driven by Randolph > Scott, who died at the scene. > > Authorities said Janklow was doing an estimated 70 mph > to 75 mph before the crash; the speed limit is 55. > > Moody County prosecutor William Ellingson is reviewing > an investigative report into the crash and deciding > whether to charge Janklow, who was elected to South > Dakota's lone House seat last year. The Republican > previously served four years as state attorney general > in the 1970s and 16 years as governor. > > Possible charges include second-degree manslaughter, a > felony, and reckless driving, a misdemeanor. > > The family has notified law officers to have Wainscoat > questioned, said Russ Janklow, the congressman's son. > > ``I can't imagine in America that (someone) can just > walk around and just start representing to people he's > been hired and newspapers print this,'' Russ Janklow > said. > > He said Wainscoat stopped at Janklow's home in Brandon > on Thursday and tried to talk with the congressman's > wife, Mary Dean Janklow, ``telling her he's a retired > D.C. police officer and he loves my dad and he's out > here trying to do an investigation and thinks the > Highway Patrol missed a bunch of stuff.'' > > Wainscoat confirmed that he stopped at Janklow's home > and that Russ Janklow ``was a little disturbed'' that > he was there. > > --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > > So sayeth the WP. They say there's talk that he > > won't > > serve out his term and that there'd be a special > > election for his seat. Let's hope it actually > > happens. Also of note in today's Post is that it > > reports that the accident was such that the > > motorcyclist would've died even had he been wearing > > a > > helmet. Finally, they say that Janklow, contrary to > > their earlier reports, did not hire a private > > investigoator. It turns out that the PI who said > > he'd > > been hired by Janklow just "made up" the story. > > Here > > are links to the WP and the NYTimes articles. The > > WP > > has more detail generally, altho the NYT articles > > has > > more on the PI angle. > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28848-2003Aug21.html > > > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Janklow-Accident.html > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > ===== > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 10:46:58 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End To: Rob Sharp , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sort of like the Bush administration then, making stuff up? --- Rob Sharp wrote: > Us neocons like our reporting with a certain level > of truth and proof behind > it. We all know the times goes hand in hand with > the PI, they like to make > things up! > > Rob > > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 07:21:10 -0700 (PDT), Mark > Kitchell wrote > > Since most of the neocons on this list (joking, > calm > > down) don't read the Times, here is the article > (you > > need to register to read the nyt online) > > > > Man Says S.D.'s Janklow Didn't Hire Him > > By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > > > > > > Filed at 10:11 p.m. ET > > > > SIOUX FALLS, S.D. (AP) -- A man who claimed he was > > hired by Rep. Bill Janklow to gather information > from > > a deadly traffic accident said Thursday that he > made > > up the story. > > > > The Washington Post reported that Jim Wainscoat, > who > > called himself a former District of Columbia > police > > officer, said he had been hired by the former > South > > Dakota governor's family to compile information > about > > the accident and the motorcyclist who died. > > > > Reached by telephone Thursday, Wainscoat confirmed > > that he in fact was not hired. He said he just > wanted > > to use his skills and scour the accident scene for > > evidence because he thought news reports about the > > accident have been slanted against Janklow. > > > > ``There's more to the story than is coming across > in > > the media,'' said Wainscoat, 62, of Viborg. > > > > Janklow strongly denied the report. > > > > ``This guy's just a liar and he's invented this,'' > > Janklow said in a brief telephone interview with > The > > Associated Press. > > > > ``It isn't just a matter of denying it. It never > > happened. ... I don't even know who he is.'' > > > > Investigators say Janklow was driving about 20 mph > > over the speed limit when he ran a stop sign > Saturday > > at a rural intersection in eastern South Dakota > and > > collided with a Harley-Davidson driven by Randolph > > Scott, who died at the scene. > > > > Authorities said Janklow was doing an estimated 70 > mph > > to 75 mph before the crash; the speed limit is 55. > > > > Moody County prosecutor William Ellingson is > reviewing > > an investigative report into the crash and > deciding > > whether to charge Janklow, who was elected to > South > > Dakota's lone House seat last year. The Republican > > previously served four years as state attorney > general > > in the 1970s and 16 years as governor. > > > > Possible charges include second-degree > manslaughter, a > > felony, and reckless driving, a misdemeanor. > > > > The family has notified law officers to have > Wainscoat > > questioned, said Russ Janklow, the congressman's > son. > > > > ``I can't imagine in America that (someone) can > just > > walk around and just start representing to people > he's > > been hired and newspapers print this,'' Russ > Janklow > > said. > > > > He said Wainscoat stopped at Janklow's home in > Brandon > > on Thursday and tried to talk with the > congressman's > > wife, Mary Dean Janklow, ``telling her he's a > retired > > D.C. police officer and he loves my dad and he's > out > > here trying to do an investigation and thinks the > > Highway Patrol missed a bunch of stuff.'' > > > > Wainscoat confirmed that he stopped at Janklow's > home > > and that Russ Janklow ``was a little disturbed'' > that > > he was there. > > > > --- Isaac Blanck wrote: > > > So sayeth the WP. They say there's talk that he > > > won't > > > serve out his term and that there'd be a special > > > election for his seat. Let's hope it actually > > > happens. Also of note in today's Post is that > it > > > reports that the accident was such that the > > > motorcyclist would've died even had he been > wearing > > > a > > > helmet. Finally, they say that Janklow, > contrary to > > > their earlier reports, did not hire a private > > > investigoator. It turns out that the PI who > said > > > he'd > > > been hired by Janklow just "made up" the story. > > > Here > > > are links to the WP and the NYTimes articles. > The > > > WP > > > has more detail generally, altho the NYT > articles > > > has > > > more on the PI angle. > > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28848-2003Aug21.html > > > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Janklow-Accident.html > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > ===== > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > -- > Rob Sharp > SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 > Network Security Engineer > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:27:28 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:41:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Sort of like the Bush administration then, making > stuff up? NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Why does every fucking thread have to evolve into the same 3-4 idiots people arguing about their personal political beliefs? Can't we stick to the fact that regardless of the politics, there is a fellow cyclist that is dead due to the carelessness of a cage driver who has a history of breaking the law? Let's hope that justice prevails in this case and the person responsible for the death of the biker is sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:35:26 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:35:27 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End At 01:41 PM 8/22/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Can't we stick to >the fact that regardless of the politics, there is a fellow cyclist that >is dead due to the carelessness of a cage driver who has a history of >breaking the law? Sounds like a plan to me. I'm just glad that he didn't get *both* of the bikers...sounds like the lead one just barely made it through before Jankoff got there. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:45:16 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 12:47:00 -0500 Ok, Wayne when you getting a turbo on the Hayabusa? Rob On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:41:28 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Sort of like the Bush administration then, making > > stuff up? > > NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! > > Why does every fucking thread have to evolve into the same 3-4 idiots > people arguing about their personal political beliefs? Can't we > stick to the fact that regardless of the politics, there is a fellow > cyclist that is dead due to the carelessness of a cage driver who > has a history of breaking the law? > > Let's hope that justice prevails in this case and the person responsible > for the death of the biker is sentenced to the fullest extent of the > law. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:53:03 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Ok, Wayne when you getting a turbo on the Hayabusa? I think my next mods will be cams and a shot of dope :-) I truly do not need any more HP on the street, so nitrous is the best way to go for a good increase in HP at the track. Also, I can still ride the twisties with an NA bike without having to worrying about 350hp kicking in if I feed in a little too much right hand ;-) Some of the 'Busa guys are out in Bonneville this week. 2 of them are racing their tagged streetbikes. One is making 470rwhp and the other one is making 545rwhp. Insanity :-) They are having a lot of traction problems. They say the salt is like riding on packed snow and they're getting wheelspin their entire runs, into the 240+ mph range. I'll dig up the pictures, it's insane... salt gets in everything. I can't imagine the cleanup after the event. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:55:37 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:55:40 -0400 To: "Rob Sharp" , Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End At 12:47 PM 8/22/03 -0500, Rob Sharp wrote: >Ok, Wayne when you getting a turbo on the Hayabusa? > >Rob You mean a turbine like this one: http://www.dogbomb.co.uk/board/arc/topic/9673.html -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 13:59:01 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: wayne@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:47:32 -0400 Amen....plus I've exceeded my budget for replacing broken delete keys! ;-) Rob From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:41:28 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > Sort of like the Bush administration then, making > stuff up? NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Why does every fucking thread have to evolve into the same 3-4 idiots people arguing about their personal political beliefs? Can't we stick to the fact that regardless of the politics, there is a fellow cyclist that is dead due to the carelessness of a cage driver who has a history of breaking the law? Let's hope that justice prevails in this case and the person responsible for the death of the biker is sentenced to the fullest extent of the law. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:00:57 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:02:42 -0500 Sweet. I think I am selling the hawk this weekend and if not then, I will toss it up on Ebay. Probaly gonna get a VFR, but someone got my turned onto the CBR1100XX. BlackBird is pretty sick power too, I think 154 HP stock. Rob On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > Ok, Wayne when you getting a turbo on the Hayabusa? > > I think my next mods will be cams and a shot of dope :-) I truly > do not need any more HP on the street, so nitrous is the best way to > go for a good increase in HP at the track. Also, I can still ride > the twisties with an NA bike without having to worrying about 350hp > kicking in if I feed in a little too much right hand ;-) > > Some of the 'Busa guys are out in Bonneville this week. 2 of them > are racing their tagged streetbikes. One is making 470rwhp and the > other one is making 545rwhp. Insanity :-) They are having a lot > of traction problems. They say the salt is like riding on packed > snow and they're getting wheelspin their entire runs, into the 240+ > mph range. > > I'll dig up the pictures, it's insane... salt gets in everything. I > can't imagine the cleanup after the event. > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:03:31 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:03:34 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) At 02:07 PM 8/22/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >Some of the 'Busa guys are out in Bonneville this week. 2 of them are >racing their tagged streetbikes. One is making 470rwhp and the other one >is making 545rwhp. Insanity :-) They are having a lot of traction >problems. I can imagine...tell them to have a few extra burgers at each meal... :^) The picture I got when I read your post was from an old Popular Mechanics. It was a cartoon with two guys standing over a tiny little hydroplane on a trailer, with an engine several times bigger than the boat itself. The caption read: "It's fast as hell, but it won't float!" >I'll dig up the pictures, it's insane... salt gets in everything. I can't >imagine the cleanup after the event. Well, salt dissolves easily with the right solvent. Water is recommended. :^) -- Mike "at least it's not the Bonneville Tar Flats" Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:06:25 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:20:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > Sweet. I think I am selling the hawk this weekend and if not then, I will > toss it up on Ebay. What are you asking for it? I have a friend who's looking at bikes right now. > > Probaly gonna get a VFR, but someone got my turned onto the CBR1100XX. > BlackBird is pretty sick power too, I think 154 HP stock. > > Rob IMO, the XX is a killer bike. Honda quality and reliability and almost the same hp as the hyperbikes ('12/'Busa). Unless you're racing, you'd never know the difference. What swayed me to the 'Busa was the looks (believe it or not!) and the extra hp/tq. If you ever get a chance, ride a 'Busa. You will not believe the power down low, it's great! -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:19:56 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:21:34 -0500 $2,250, clean and lean free title. Pictures here: http://www.sharpie.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album26 27k miles. Supertrapp, Corbin Seat, Stage II jet kit, SS brake lines front and rear. (rear SS is through the rear swing arm ) I just flushed the coolant and all the brakes. I did all the work on it myself, I am the 3rd owner. Runs strong. Avon Azaro II tires got lots of life left. It's been down once while I had it, hence the nice blue paint job. It's in great shape now and you wouldn't know I had crashed it unless i told you. No dents or dings in the tank. Rob On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:20:23 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > Sweet. I think I am selling the hawk this weekend and if not then, I will > > toss it up on Ebay. > > What are you asking for it? I have a friend who's looking at bikes right > now. > > > > > Probaly gonna get a VFR, but someone got my turned onto the CBR1100XX. > > BlackBird is pretty sick power too, I think 154 HP stock. > > > > Rob > > IMO, the XX is a killer bike. Honda quality and reliability and almost > the same hp as the hyperbikes ('12/'Busa). Unless you're racing, you'd > never know the difference. > > What swayed me to the 'Busa was the looks (believe it or not!) and > the extra hp/tq. If you ever get a chance, ride a 'Busa. You will not > believe the power down low, it's great! > > -- Wayne -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:22:55 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:37:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > $2,250, clean and lean free title. > Pictures here: http://www.sharpie.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album26 > > 27k miles. Supertrapp, Corbin Seat, Stage II jet kit, SS brake lines front > and rear. (rear SS is through the rear swing arm ) I just flushed the coolant > and all the brakes. I did all the work on it myself, I am the 3rd owner. > Runs strong. Avon Azaro II tires got lots of life left. > > It's been down once while I had it, hence the nice blue paint job. It's in > great shape now and you wouldn't know I had crashed it unless i told you. No > dents or dings in the tank. > > Rob What do you think of it for a short, newbie rider? My buddy is a weightlifter, but very short... 5'4" and around 190lbs. Seems like it would be a good bike for him to ride now and for a few years. -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:31:28 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:31:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End To: Wayne Edelen , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Wayne Edelen wrote: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > Sort of like the Bush administration then, making > > stuff up? > > NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! > > Why does every fucking thread have to evolve into the > same 3-4 idiots > people arguing about their personal political beliefs? Personally, I blame it all on the synthetic oil in the congressman's car... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:33:59 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > $2,250, clean and lean free title. What good is a bike with a lean-free title? Maybe for Wayne at the strip... -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 14:37:27 2003 From: "Rob Sharp" To: Wayne Edelen , Subject: Re: More HP! (was Re: Parties Expect Care... blah) Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:39:08 -0500 On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:37:05 -0400 (EDT), Wayne Edelen wrote > On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Rob Sharp wrote: > > > $2,250, clean and lean free title. > > Pictures here: http://www.sharpie.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album26 > > > > 27k miles. Supertrapp, Corbin Seat, Stage II jet kit, SS brake lines front > > and rear. (rear SS is through the rear swing arm ) I just flushed the coolant > > and all the brakes. I did all the work on it myself, I am the 3rd owner. > > Runs strong. Avon Azaro II tires got lots of life left. > > > > It's been down once while I had it, hence the nice blue paint job. It's in > > great shape now and you wouldn't know I had crashed it unless i told you. No > > dents or dings in the tank. > > > > Rob > > What do you think of it for a short, newbie rider? My buddy is a > weightlifter, but very short... 5'4" and around 190lbs. Seems like > it would be a good bike for him to ride now and for a few years. > > -- Wayne Well I am 5'10 and 260 and it was fine for me to learn on. I can get both feet flat on the ground with a little bend in my knee. I got this bike to learn on. It's awesome to learn figure 8's on, got a great turning radius and handling. It's got good low end power so slow speed turn's ect are pretty easy to accomplish without stalling. The best part is it's weight, 395lbs dry. I am not 5'4 but if he is interest I could definetly let him sit on it. At 5'4 I think your gonna have a hard time finding something to work. There are plenty of people who are very experienced riders and still ride the hawk to this day. So it's not like Rebel/Ninja 250 you will be ready to ditch in a year. Plus they hold there value. Rob -- Rob Sharp SSCP/CCSP/CCNA 2.0/CCSA CP2000 Network Security Engineer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 17:38:35 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 14:38:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Leon finishes. Reports from Missoula are that Leon's finished the IBR on his EX250. So much for the Hopeless Class. Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 18:17:45 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Leon finishes. Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 18:17:32 -0400 > Reports from Missoula are that Leon's finished the IBR on his EX250. Not that there was any doubt - finished fantastically well too (assuming that he kept the same basic standing that he had in Maine) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 20:34:23 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Welcome, Aggressive Driver Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 20:32:44 -0400 The scene -- the Garden State Parkway. Me not 35c toll prepared, so, as usual, pulled up to the little island between booth lanes and stopped to fish change as cars moved by. Glove off, hand in pocket when I (barely--plugs) hear "Hey, I got it for you." Look right, and this smiling bearded face is leaning out of an suv. I yell "thanks, I've got it" and wave him off. Reason for generousity not apparent (stickers, etc.). But rare gesture warmly fuzzy for miles. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Full tolls, ugh. 1/2 toll for two wheels? 1/6th for 1/6th wgt (500/3000)? Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Fri Aug 22 22:13:45 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 19:13:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Fish Flowers To: DC-Cycles Subject: Re: Leon finishes. On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Michael Jordan wrote: > > Reports from Missoula are that Leon's finished the IBR on his EX250. > > Not that there was any doubt - finished fantastically well too (assuming > that he kept the same basic standing that he had in Maine) Reports from LDRider are that he finished in 12th place. Way to go Leon! Fish. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 23 06:16:28 2003 Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 13:35:25 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Parties Expect Career of SD Congressman to End To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Sort of like the Bush administration then, making >stuff up? No, sort of like slick willie making stuff up in front of the press conference podium, or while under oath. Or, like Al Gore, when discussing fund raising.... OR !!! Ted Kennedy when discussing Chappaquiddick... That kind of making stuff up. Kudos to Marion Barry though... That God Damned bitch did set him up... Dave >> Us neocons like our reporting with a certain level >> of truth and proof behind >> it. We all know the times goes hand in hand with >> the PI, they like to make >> things up! >> >> Rob >> From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 23 08:11:00 2003 Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:09:41 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: FS: Black 1992 Honda VFR. I haven't come up with a good price yet, but figured I'd let you all know early on here, in case someone was interested. The new bike has kinda captured my attention, so, the old bike needs to go. With that: 1992 Honda VFR - Black. 44K miles Corbin Gunfighter/Lady saddle Givi wing rack and bags Works Performance rear shock rebuilt ~1000 miles ago. SS Brake lines Battery new this season. Speedo link replaced last season, and I have a spare. Shop Manual Dowco Cover Needs tires and probably chain/sprockets, Just passed inspection in June. Right side upper, under the right handle bar needs work due to a brake fluid leak onto the ABS plastic. That happened when the SS lines were put on... the master cylinder has since been replaced -- no more leaking. Replacement fairing parts can be ordered from Honda, and occasionally show up on eBay. The owner previous to me did lay the bike down. It was a fairly low speed low side on an on-ramp. The damage amounted to foot pegs and body work. All the damage was repaired long before I had the bike. I'll try to get some pictures posted later today. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 23 08:41:36 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Leon finishes. Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 08:41:26 -0400 > Reports from LDRider are that he finished in 12th place. Way to go Leon! If he had read (and understood) the instructions, he would have been 4th - oh well - there's always 2005 ;-) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 23 12:33:20 2003 Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:32:44 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Leon finishes. Michael J. wrote: >If he had read (and understood) the instructions, he would have been 4th - >oh well - there's always 2005 ;-) Eh? Explain. -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sat Aug 23 12:41:18 2003 Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:40:37 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: FS: Black 1992 Honda VFR. At 08:09 AM 8/23/2003 -0400, Dan Brown wrote: >I'll try to get some pictures posted later today. Pictures are here: http://www.brauhausdc.org/~brown/images/vfr/index.html Note, the connection is sorta slow. Be gentle. -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 16:19:58 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Fatality on 211 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:19:48 -0400 Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality (not sure which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a deputy on the scene. Anyone on the list know any more? Keep it safe out there folks... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 16:37:09 2003 Subject: RE: Fatality on 211 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:36:59 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Michael Jordan" , Saturday afternoon, around 6pm, I went to ride 211. As I was approaching Cooter's, I saw a police camaro, regular police vic, police SUV and an ambulance followed by a rider all coming towards me. The ambulance and some of the other cars had their lights on. I don't know what happened or how seriously the rider was injured, but apparently the injuries stopped him from walking away :( As I made a few runs up and down 211, I didn't see any tell tale crash signs. I also thought that after everyone went to follow the ambulance, there would be no enforcement on 211, but it turned out to be the opposite. There were a lot of police cars driving up and down the whole time I was riding it up and down. The accident, as you describe it below, really hits home. Last week was the first time I've ever been to 211 when many other riders were riding it along with me. (Beautyful Saturday, early afternoon) As I would ride it, I would see _groups_ of sportbikes dragging their knees coming from the other direction. WOW. On one of those turns, I was in the middle of a downhill right hander, and 5-6 sportbikes came from the other direction - only few feet apart - all dragging their knees. Talk about having to resist target fixation. Witold > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Jordan [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 4:20 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Fatality on 211 > > > Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand > bend apparently > went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality > (not sure > which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a > deputy on the > scene. > > Anyone on the list know any more? > > Keep it safe out there folks... > > Michael J. > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 17:55:16 2003 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 17:44:46 -0400 To: From: Dan Brown Subject: RE: Fatality on 211 I was up in that area between noon and 1pm this afternoon. Made it up as far as Cooters and then turned around -- was with some friends who were in a car, and we were headed elsewhere. We had lunch at the little crunchy granola store (mountainside deli??) between Sperryville and Cooters. We saw a woman drop her bike in the gravel turning into the same place -- many folks ran out to help her up, and there didn't seem to be much damage, other than pride. The clerk told us that there had been 2 people helicoptered off on Saturday, 2 more today, and then the fatality. He didn't have any more information than that though. Also saw a couple of squid boys -- t-shirts, shorts, tennis shoes, fancy helmets and shiny bikes... racing and reving on the way out of the parking lot across from Cooters. At 04:36 PM 8/24/2003 -0400, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: >Saturday afternoon, around 6pm, I went to ride 211. As I was approaching >Cooter's, I saw a police camaro, regular police vic, police SUV and an >ambulance followed by a rider all coming towards me. The ambulance and >some of the other cars had their lights on. I don't know what happened or >how seriously the rider was injured, but apparently the injuries stopped >him from walking away :( As I made a few runs up and down 211, I didn't >see any tell tale crash signs. I also thought that after everyone went to >follow the ambulance, there would be no enforcement on 211, but it turned >out to be the opposite. There were a lot of police cars driving up and >down the whole time I was riding it up and down. > >The accident, as you describe it below, really hits home. Last week was >the first time I've ever been to 211 when many other riders were riding it >along with me. (Beautyful Saturday, early afternoon) As I would ride it, >I would see _groups_ of sportbikes dragging their knees coming from the >other direction. WOW. On one of those turns, I was in the middle of a >downhill right hander, and 5-6 sportbikes came from the other direction - >only few feet apart - all dragging their knees. Talk about having to >resist target fixation. > >Witold > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Jordan [mailto:mjordan812@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 4:20 PM > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: Fatality on 211 > > > > > > Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand > > bend apparently > > went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality > > (not sure > > which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a > > deputy on the > > scene. > > > > Anyone on the list know any more? > > > > Keep it safe out there folks... > > > > Michael J. > > > > > > > > -- Resist or Serve From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 18:08:41 2003 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 18:08:33 -0400 From: Jim Shoemaker To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 Ugh. Hate to hear that. I'm afraid 211 will become unrideable if these kind of things keep happening. I was there today at about 0900. No real traffic, no LEOs that early. By noon I was in Elkins, WV, having lunch. Today was one of the best days we've had in a while for riding. GPS said I did 468.2 miles in 10 hours 17 min. (including stops). Average rolling speed 55.8 mph. Max speed 100.9 -) Long day, but worth it to get to US33, 219 & 50. --Jim --2003 R1100S (Boxer Cup Prep) Michael Jordan wrote: >Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently >went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality (not sure >which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a deputy on the >scene. > >Anyone on the list know any more? > >Keep it safe out there folks... > >Michael J. > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 22:05:09 2003 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:51:37 -0400 To: From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 At 04:19 PM 8/24/03 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently >went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality (not sure >which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a deputy on the >scene. I left there coming home a bit before noon, but I've seen near misses similar to what you describe on more than one occasion. In fact, the last time I was out there, someone on a BMW (K75, I think) coming up the hill crossed over the line and got a lot closer to me (going downhill) than I'd like. Bob Meyer '92 Candy Glory Red ST1100, STOC # 1157 '02 Black 919 "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning. " From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 23:07:14 2003 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:07:27 -0400 To: "Michael Jordan" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 At 04:19 PM 8/24/03 -0400, Michael Jordan wrote: >Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently >went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. You know biking is getting popular when... Any accident sucks, but that one sounds really preventable from your description. I hope the body count doesn't rise later from it. On a brighter note: Does it seem to anyone else that motorcycling is getting more popular all the time? There are suddenly a *lot* of bike shows on TV. SpeedVision has "Two Wheeled Tuesday", "Corbin's Ride On", "American Thunder", they were showing "Bike Week" until it went away and they have lots of bike racing. The Learning Channel has "American Choppers", and has had several specials about bikes ("Motorcycle Mayhem, with Jesse James for instance). The Travel Channel ran a show about Sturgis Bike Week this evening...and it doing a whole week of Motorcycle stuff starting Tuesday (I think that's what they said, but I wasn't listening closely at the time...might have been for next weekend). Seems like every channel on my satellite dish is trying to come up with some sort of Motorcycle show to put on...and it isn't all the "bad biker" stuff. Very little of it is in fact. They are really stressing the friendly nature of riders, and the wide range of "types"...from Jay Leno to Jesse James to the girl next door. None of it is in the least bit "Xtreme". Is this the next big fad being pumped up? Or are people really getting interested and the media folks are just meeting a need? -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Sun Aug 24 23:26:07 2003 Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:26:20 -0400 To: Bob Meyer , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 At 09:51 PM 8/24/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > In fact, the last >time I was out there, someone on a BMW (K75, I think) coming up the hill >crossed over the line and got a lot closer to me (going downhill) than I'd >like. What is it with people these days? When I learned to drive, crossing the center divider was one of the biggest NO-NOs you could name. You NEVER did that! If you did it going around a curve it was a clear sign that you didn't know what the hell you were doing, and you should be ashamed of yourself and go back to pedal cars until you learned to drive. You might as well drool and wet your bed...it wouldn't hurt anyone's opinion of you more than that level of incompetence behind the wheel. Today I see it all the time. Every day some jackass numbskull idiot who must have bribed someone to get a license takes a turn faster than he's competent to handle, and crosses into my lane as if he (or she) had a right to be there! I've given up honking at them...they are probably too stupid to figure out what they did wrong anyway, and how likely it is to kill them or someone they've never met someday (depending on who's driving what at the time...I only pray that the "other guy" is in a loaded cement mixer or something when it happens...apparently the gene pool could use a little chlorine). What's even worse, when I'm following one of these incompetent morons it's clear that it really is their driving ability, not lack of performance in their car combined with a slight error in judging entry speed. I've followed some of them around the same curve at the same speed, and had no real trouble staying well away from the center divider...despite the fact that they were in a sports car of some sort, and I'm driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The worst part is that they think this sort of thing is OK...after watching them use a couple of feet of the other lane to get their slack-jawed faces around a curve, do they slow a bit more for the next one to avoid repeating the error? Or use a little more of their available traction to make the turn at speed? Nope! They just swing wide again...and again...and again... I just shake my head and back off a bit so I'll be able to stop before I get to the wreckage in case that cement mixer gets unlucky on the next blind curve... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 06:42:34 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 06:42:31 -0400 From: Jim Shoemaker To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 Mike Bartman wrote: >At 09:51 PM 8/24/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >>In fact, the last >>time I was out there, someone on a BMW (K75, I think) coming up the hill >>crossed over the line and got a lot closer to me (going downhill) than I'd >>like. >> >> > >What is it with people these days? When I learned to drive, crossing the >center divider was one of the biggest NO-NOs you could name. You NEVER did >that! If you did it going around a curve it was a clear sign that you >didn't know what the hell you were doing, and you should be ashamed of >yourself and go back to pedal cars until you learned to drive. [snip] > >Today I see it all the time. > Yep. Happened to me yesterday, too. An 18-wheeler coming up one of the passes on US33 in WV as I was coming down. He decided that he wanted his half of the road in the middle. I was all I could do not to target fixate on this big-ass trailer halfway into my lane. Fortunately, I was able to alter my line and get through unscathed. --Jim From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 08:01:44 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:01:41 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >What is it with people these days? When I learned to drive, >crossing the center divider was one of the biggest NO-NOs >you could name. You NEVER did that! >apparently the gene pool could use a little chlorine). [Dave] We hand out driver's licenses like they were Halloween candy. Unfortunately, only the horrific crashes get the deserved attention ( at least around here ). There's a channel having some contest to "have your dream job"... Yeah, I'd like to be the Pool Sanitation Engineer for the Gene Pool.... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 08:24:32 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:23:09 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Dave Yates CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 Dave Yates wrote: > >What is it with people these days? When I learned to drive, > >crossing the center divider was one of the biggest NO-NOs > >you could name. You NEVER did that! > > > > >apparently the gene pool could use a little chlorine). > > [Dave] We hand out driver's licenses like they were > Halloween candy. Unfortunately, only the horrific crashes > get the deserved attention ( at least around here ). Yes indeed. Yesterday I wuz on my way to Home Depot, driving my pickemup on Braddock road. A dude sweeps the corner out of Montgomery Street with no attempt to slow for the stop sign! SHEEIITT!!! I lit up the brakes, skid endding a few feet from his japmobile. He gives me one of the *sorry* waves, I give him the International Salute. Dumb prick. The sudden stop has affected my anchient trruck. Now I have two dashboard warning lights "brake" and "anti-lock". Crappers. Of well, inspection is due in September, time to drop it off at my fav mechanic and tell im to make it well. Glad I wasn't on the scoot, and fortunately I wuz in Honey-do fetch mode and putzing along at 5 below the speed limit ewhen dumb-ass cruised the stop sign. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 08:50:24 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 08:49:15 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Scooters... Methinks there's a scooter in my future. The perfect beach transportation. Visualize old fart on scooter going to fetch groceries with a milk crate bungeed to the tail of the beast. No, not the 49cc scooters, but one that can buzz down the road at a good clip. The Honda mega-scooter is off my list, so huge it defies the image of a scooter. But I'm thinking a four-stroke engine. Pardon my bow to the EPA. Any recommendations? Bill - old fart who went thru puberty about the time the earth cooled... From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 08:56:00 2003 From: "Keiser, Rudy" To: "'William J. Huson'" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Fatality on 211 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:04:35 -0400 I had those lights show up on my Honda Accord after a real hard stop. Topping off the fluid in the brake and anti-lock reservoirs shut off the lights. -----Original Message----- From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 8:23 AM To: Dave Yates Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 Dave Yates wrote: > >What is it with people these days? When I learned to drive, > >crossing the center divider was one of the biggest NO-NOs > >you could name. You NEVER did that! > > > > >apparently the gene pool could use a little chlorine). > > [Dave] We hand out driver's licenses like they were > Halloween candy. Unfortunately, only the horrific crashes > get the deserved attention ( at least around here ). Yes indeed. Yesterday I wuz on my way to Home Depot, driving my pickemup on Braddock road. A dude sweeps the corner out of Montgomery Street with no attempt to slow for the stop sign! SHEEIITT!!! I lit up the brakes, skid endding a few feet from his japmobile. He gives me one of the *sorry* waves, I give him the International Salute. Dumb prick. The sudden stop has affected my anchient trruck. Now I have two dashboard warning lights "brake" and "anti-lock". Crappers. Of well, inspection is due in September, time to drop it off at my fav mechanic and tell im to make it well. Glad I wasn't on the scoot, and fortunately I wuz in Honey-do fetch mode and putzing along at 5 below the speed limit ewhen dumb-ass cruised the stop sign. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:06:11 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Dave Yates , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Fatality on 211 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 9:06:01 -0400 > >apparently the gene pool could use a little chlorine). > AMEN! Did you hear about the woman who got her head smashed in her car door at McDonalds? Dropped her change out the window, opened her car door and bent over to pick it up, and was too stupid to put the car in park, or to put on the parking brake. Her foot apparently slipped off the brake, the car rolled forward, the door hit a pole and closed on her head! I guess I'm sorry for her injuries, but some people just shouldn't live long enough to reproduce. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:11:55 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 06:11:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Scooters... To: "William J. Huson" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" People Movers are nice and they make a sweet 150. So does Vespa ($$$). --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > Methinks there's a scooter in my future. The > perfect beach > transportation. Visualize old fart on scooter going > to fetch groceries > with a milk crate bungeed to the tail of the beast. > No, not the 49cc > scooters, but one that can buzz down the road at a > good clip. The Honda > mega-scooter is off my list, so huge it defies the > image of a scooter. > But I'm thinking a four-stroke engine. Pardon my > bow to the EPA. > > Any recommendations? > > Bill - old fart who went thru puberty about the time > the earth > cooled... > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:23:32 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:22:43 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Banding in Clifton FYI - the new asphalt banding VDOT put down in Clifton (primarily near Henderson and Davis Ford) is almost an inch high and very rough when sweeping curves. I don't know why they put it on so thick this time. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:36:38 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 06:36:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: 211 fatality To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Brother of a friend. Please keep him and his family in your thoughts -- ===forwarded message=== From: Peter Kosztolnik [pkosztolnik@XXXXXX] Yesterday my brother and I were riding motorcycles on skyline drive. We were riding up the mountain when a motorcycle crossed the double yellow and impacted my brother head on. I was about three bike lengths back when this happened. He died in my arms on the mountain. He died what he loved doing and I was with him. I will update further about arrangements. I appreciate your support and understanding in the next couple of weeks. Peter Kosztolnik Email: pkosztolnik@XXXXXX __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:39:32 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: morning commute Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:39:31 GMT I pulled up next to a Harley at the last light before I get on 270. I motioned to the rider that his helmet chin strap was not attached. He commented back that they can make him actually wear the helmet but fastening it on is a whole different story..... He had PA tags, I don't know what the helmet rule in that state is. Needless to say I was happy to see a big black BMW on 66 this morning with the rider wearing full gear. Lisa '95 VFR --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:40:25 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 09:41:38 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: , Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 Not sure if it is the same accident, but a guy in the office sent someone an e-mail indicating that they were on "Skyline Drive" going up the mountain when a motorcycle crossed the centerline and hit his brother head on. His brother died in his arms. His comment in the e-mail was his brother died doing what he loved, and I [his brother] was with him. That all I know about the accident right now. Judy >>> "Michael Jordan" 08/24/03 04:19PM >>> Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality (not sure which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a deputy on the scene. Anyone on the list know any more? Keep it safe out there folks... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 09:58:35 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 06:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Re: Fatality on 211 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX AND she was driving a mommyvan... need I say more? Glenn --- Bob Meyer wrote: > > > >apparently the gene pool could use a little > chlorine). > > > > AMEN! Did you hear about the woman who got her > head smashed in her car door at McDonalds? Dropped > her change out the window, opened her car door and > bent over to pick it up, and was too stupid to put > the car in park, or to put on the parking brake. > > Her foot apparently slipped off the brake, the car > rolled forward, the door hit a pole and closed on > her head! > > I guess I'm sorry for her injuries, but some people > just shouldn't live long enough to reproduce. > > Bob > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:02:16 2003 Subject: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 09:58:04 -0400 I'm back. 6,810.6 miles. I passed some wacky Honda scooter thing in HOV on the way in. What are "Chicken Stripes" (or "strips")? My understanding is it's the width of the wear pattern on your tires and shows how aggressive you take turns. I'm transcribing my ride notes into a ride report which will be available on my site in a few days. Later, 407 e-mails just in the dc-cycles list. Evil Overlord Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:06:05 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 07:06:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Morning To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Chicken Stripes are the edges of the tires when someone has not leaned far enough over to wear off that slppiery coating that a tire has when new. Glenn --- Carl Schelin wrote: > What are "Chicken Stripes" (or "strips")? My > understanding is it's the > width of the wear pattern on your tires and shows > how aggressive you > take turns. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:12:34 2003 Subject: Re: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 10:08:22 -0400 Ah, so it's what's left, not the width of the wear. Got it. What's considered the edge of the tire? The tread pattern or farther? The reason I ask is that the wear pattern on my tires are past the edge of the tread pattern by about a quarter inch. Thanks, Carl On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 10:06, Glenn Dysart wrote: > Chicken Stripes are the edges of the tires when > someone has not leaned far enough over to wear off > that slppiery coating that a tire has when new. > > Glenn > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > What are "Chicken Stripes" (or "strips")? My > > understanding is it's the > > width of the wear pattern on your tires and shows > > how aggressive you > > take turns. > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:16:29 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 07:16:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Morning To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In the case of Chicken Stripes its the area you can actually ride on. Meaning, until the rubber "ends" where it makes a turn to the rim. Glenn --- Carl Schelin wrote: > Ah, so it's what's left, not the width of the wear. > Got it. > > What's considered the edge of the tire? The tread > pattern or farther? > > The reason I ask is that the wear pattern on my > tires are past the edge > of the tread pattern by about a quarter inch. > > Thanks, > > Carl > > On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 10:06, Glenn Dysart wrote: > > Chicken Stripes are the edges of the tires when > > someone has not leaned far enough over to wear off > > that slppiery coating that a tire has when new. > > > > Glenn > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > What are "Chicken Stripes" (or "strips")? My > > > understanding is it's the > > > width of the wear pattern on your tires and > shows > > > how aggressive you > > > take turns. > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:23:43 2003 Subject: Re: Morning From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 10:19:32 -0400 Cool. Thanks for the info. Carl On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 10:16, Glenn Dysart wrote: > In the case of Chicken Stripes its the area you can > actually ride on. Meaning, until the rubber "ends" > where it makes a turn to the rim. > > Glenn > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > Ah, so it's what's left, not the width of the wear. > > Got it. > > > > What's considered the edge of the tire? The tread > > pattern or farther? > > > > The reason I ask is that the wear pattern on my > > tires are past the edge > > of the tread pattern by about a quarter inch. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Carl > > > > On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 10:06, Glenn Dysart wrote: > > > Chicken Stripes are the edges of the tires when > > > someone has not leaned far enough over to wear off > > > that slppiery coating that a tire has when new. > > > > > > Glenn > > > > > > > > > --- Carl Schelin wrote: > > > > What are "Chicken Stripes" (or "strips")? My > > > > understanding is it's the > > > > width of the wear pattern on your tires and > > shows > > > > how aggressive you > > > > take turns. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > > design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 10:31:18 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Morning Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 10:30:37 -0400 Well, it's the area *you* can ride on, Glenn. For a chicken, it's the area that the chicken can't ride on. --jon ----- Glenn Dysart" wrote: > In the case of Chicken Stripes its the area you can > actually ride on. Meaning, until the rubber "ends" > where it makes a turn to the rim. > > Glenn From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 11:31:16 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:31:11 -0400 To: "Jon Strang" , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Morning At 10:30 AM 8/25/03 -0400, Jon Strang wrote: >Well, it's the area *you* can ride on, Glenn. For a chicken, it's the area >that the chicken can't ride on. Won't bike design have something to do with that? A cruiser is likely to start dragging pipes, stand, or pegs long before the lean is over far enough to wear away the tire that far. Bikes designed for racing will obviously have much more of a "skirts up" build, and not have that problem. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 11:51:45 2003 Subject: Re: headlight modulators From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 11:47:33 -0400 On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 13:36, Bob Meyer wrote: > > I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Headlight Modulator!!! > While on my trip two bikers passed me. The rearmost one had a LED type taillight which was brighter than the other. As they continued on (they were doing 125 kp/h and I was doing 110 kp/h) I was able to clearly see the LED for much longer than I could see the other taillight. I've been considering changing mine out for LEDs both taillight and signals. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 11:58:07 2003 Subject: Re: headlight modulators From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 11:53:56 -0400 On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:08, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 01:36 PM 8/14/03 -0400, Bob Meyer wrote: > > >If you don't have a modulator, at least ride with the high beam on. But I > wouldn't dream of coming into town anymore without my modulator running. > It just flat out works > > Never heard of these...can you describe? Does it just make the headlight > brightness change? How fast and how much? > > Anything that increases visibility is a good thing. Human senses are > limited in lots of ways. > Wasn't there a MC death where someone who may have had a modulator was tailgating someone else who slammed on his brakes killing the biker? As I recall the guy said the biker was flashing his headlights at him which pissed him off. It didn't say there was a modulator but I think we speculated that he may have had one which might explain the flashing headlight. I saw one while on the trip and it was very clear. One of the problems with everyone running with their lights on during the daylight is that there is no contrast between us and them anymore. High beams worked for a couple of weeks for me but I was also getting odder behavior from the drivers ahead of me. > -- Mike Bartman > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 12:15:21 2003 Reply-To: From: To: Subject: Radiator Shop in NoVA? Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:15:19 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out004.verizon.net from [141.156.176.210] at Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:15:11 -0500 Anyone suggest a place to bring an SV650 radiator with a few pinholes in it for repair? Thanks- Rob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 12:40:19 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:40:09 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: headlight modulators At 11:53 AM 8/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Wasn't there a MC death where someone who may have had a modulator was >tailgating someone else who slammed on his brakes killing the biker? As >I recall the guy said the biker was flashing his headlights at him which >pissed him off. Two thoughts from this: 1) why was the bike following too closely? If you can't stop without hitting the vehicle ahead if they slam on their brakes, you are too close. 2) The guy actually confessed to second degree murder over a minor annoyance?? >One of the problems with everyone running with their lights on during >the daylight is that there is no contrast between us and them anymore. >High beams worked for a couple of weeks for me but I was also getting >odder behavior from the drivers ahead of me. Seems to me that you should hook up the modulator to the high beam, and switch to low beam when you are following someone for long periods. Save the modulator for when you are in the lead, or alone, and don't have a cage blocking for you. That way you get the benefits, but not the potential downsides. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:21:38 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: headlight modulators Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:21:23 -0400 > > From: Carl Schelin > Wasn't there a MC death where someone who may have had a modulator was > tailgating someone else who slammed on his brakes killing the biker? As > I recall the guy said the biker was flashing his headlights at him which > pissed him off. Well, if the rider hadn't been tailgating, the end result would likely have been quite different. And he may well have been flashing his lights to get the cage driver to pull over. I don't think the modulator is quite as annoying as that would be. Even so, when I'm stopped behind a car in traffic, or following closely behind a car in a situation where there's not much chance of someone pulling out in front of me, I'll turn mine off. But as soon as I'm in open traffice again, it gets turned right back on. > > I saw one while on the trip and it was very clear. > > One of the problems with everyone running with their lights on during > the daylight is that there is no contrast between us and them anymore. Exactly. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:30:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:30:07 EDT Subject: Re: headlight modulators To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/25/2003 12:00:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > One of the problems with everyone running with their lights on during > the daylight is that there is no contrast between us and them anymore. GOOD! Currently drivers look for cars in the daytime and headlights at night. That is why I have always felt safer riding at night, you see I _have_ a headlight, that is what they are looking for, that is what they see. When they start to look for headlights in the daytime.... Well we have headlights. I used to say (During the heyday of Star Trek TNG) that what I wanted on my bike was a hologram projector to project the image of a _huge_ truck in front of me to scare the hell out of them. Bottom line is that it is in no way important that they see a _bike_ I do not care what they see as long as they see SOMETHING, the more threatening the better, if they stop because they think they see a cars headlight, COOL. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:33:14 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:33:02 EDT Subject: Re: Scooters... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/25/2003 8:50:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bhuson@XXXXXX writes: > But I'm thinking a four-stroke engine. Pardon my bow to the EPA. Anything over 50cc should be a four cycle. Many if not most scooters have a lot of storage space under the seat, so you may not need the milk crate#:-) > John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:36:49 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:36:41 EDT Subject: Re: Radiator Shop in NoVA? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/25/2003 12:18:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmcurtis@XXXXXX writes: > Anyone suggest a place to bring an SV650 radiator with a few pinholes in it > for repair? Thanks- Where did they come from and where are they located? Kawasaki had a problem with that for a while, the question is do you have the same problem. If it is the same problem you are screwed on this one, but recurrence can be prevented _if_ you know what the problem is. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:41:41 2003 From: Bob Meyer Reply-To: rmeyer9@XXXXXX To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: headlight modulators Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:41:32 -0400 > > From: Carl Schelin > While on my trip two bikers passed me. The rearmost one had a LED type > taillight which was brighter than the other. As they continued on (they > were doing 125 kp/h and I was doing 110 kp/h) I was able to clearly see > the LED for much longer than I could see the other taillight. > > I've been considering changing mine out for LEDs both taillight and > signals. A couple of cautions here. First, not all LEDs are created equal. I know some people who bought 1157 LED replacements and found them to be much worse than the stock bulbs. And replacing the stock bulbs with brighter ones can be confusing. I had halogen 1157s on my bike for a while, and people thought my brakes were stuck on. I've compromised by adding a Signal Dynamics LED bar below my stock light. It works as a running and brake light, and I think it's quite noticeable, especially when the brakes are lit. And I've also added a pair of hyperlights, which blink rapidly when the brakes are on. Very attention getting. Note that there is a competitor to hyperlights called (I think) "lifebrites." I've seen both, and the lifebrites are not nearly as bright. Here are a few interesting links: http://www.hyperlites.com/ http://www.signaldynamics.com/products/LightBars/ulb.asp http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/Brake-lights.htm http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/led/led.htm http://webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-technical-articles/triumph/brake-lights/light-bulbs.htm Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:44:22 2003 From: "Rob Curtis" To: , Subject: RE: Radiator Shop in NoVA? Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:44:17 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at out002.verizon.net from [141.156.176.210] at Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:09 -0500 My horn rubbed the front and created some pinholes. No mystery. Just green goo all over the place... Rob -----Original Message----- From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX [mailto:PenguinBiker@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 13:37 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Radiator Shop in NoVA? In a message dated 8/25/2003 12:18:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rmcurtis@XXXXXX writes: > Anyone suggest a place to bring an SV650 radiator with a few pinholes in it > for repair? Thanks- Where did they come from and where are they located? Kawasaki had a problem with that for a while, the question is do you have the same problem. If it is the same problem you are screwed on this one, but recurrence can be prevented _if_ you know what the problem is. Loud pipes quell cells. 20-20 hindsight shows the future if you are not careful. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 13:46:27 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 13:46:23 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Radiator Shop in NoVA? At 01:36 PM 8/25/2003, you wrote: >Where did they come from and where are they located? >Kawasaki had a problem with that for a while, the question is do you have the >same problem. If it is the same problem you are screwed on this one, but >recurrence can be prevented _if_ you know what the problem is. One in Manassas Park on 28 next to Kline Freeze. No idea what the name is, but you can't miss it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they would never expect it -- Jack Handey 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:00:28 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:00:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Scratch Subject: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? To: DCC Can anyone provide directions to Crossroads Cycle? Coming from the West on Rt. 7. Thanks, Rich __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:06:27 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? To: Scratch , DCC Just stay on Rt 7 east through tysons corner, city of Falls Church, and 7 Corners. Once you get to Baileys Crossroads (the intersection of Columbia Pike and Route 7) just cross over Columbia Pike and its right on the right hand side. Just go down another couple hundred feet and turn right onto the service road to get to it. Glenn --- Scratch wrote: > Can anyone provide directions to Crossroads Cycle? > Coming from the West on Rt. 7. > > Thanks, > > Rich > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:19:22 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Cc: Subject: Re: Radiator Shop in NoVA? Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:19:00 -0400 There's a radiator shop in b/w Bailey's Crossroads and 7 corners on the north/east side of 7, IIRC. It's a automotive place, but does m/c stuff, too. I've heard lots of good things. In my own experiecne, I took in a leaking oil cooler off El Bandito Grande. In a few seconds, they guy pressurized it, found location of leak, and said he couldn't get to it good enough to fix. Zero charge. If you want to go there, email me off-line & I'll figure out the name and address of the place. --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:15 PM Subject: Radiator Shop in NoVA? > Anyone suggest a place to bring an SV650 radiator with a few pinholes in it > for repair? Thanks- > > Rob > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:27:56 2003 Subject: Re: headlight modulators From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 14:23:43 -0400 On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:53, William J. Huson wrote: > Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute > winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes > do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) > I had four left turn signals go out. The right turn signal cover melted and when I replaced the cover the bulb went out. They seemed to be affected by the colder weather since the first ones went out before South Dakota and the other three went, one each day, after I entered Ontario. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:44:45 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:44:07 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DCC Subject: Re: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Scratch wrote: > Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 11:00:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: Scratch > To: DCC > Subject: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? > > Can anyone provide directions to Crossroads Cycle? > Coming from the West on Rt. 7. Rt. 7 through the hell that is 7 corners, to the hell that is Bailey's Crossroads. Under Columbia Pike and right at Carlin Springs road, there's a McDonalds there. Right at the next light, which should be Seminary. Take Seminary to the end of the block, around the hairpin turn and the shop is on your right. Look for the gaggle of motorcycles out front. -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 14:47:13 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 14:46:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: DCC Subject: Re: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Daniel H. Brown wrote: > > Rt. 7 through the hell that is 7 corners, to the hell that > is Bailey's Crossroads. Under Columbia Pike and right at Carlin ^^^^^ whups. Col Pk goes under rt 7, -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:11:01 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:09:54 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Carl Schelin CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: headlight modulators Carl Schelin wrote: > On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:53, William J. Huson wrote: > > > Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute > > winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes > > do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) > > > > I had four left turn signals go out. The right turn signal cover melted > and when I replaced the cover the bulb went out. > > They seemed to be affected by the colder weather since the first ones > went out before South Dakota and the other three went, one each day, > after I entered Ontario. Dang - got me beat. Since 1998 I've had two bulbs fail out of seven turn/stop/running lamps. Ride hot & cold, more'n 37K which has included many miles on gravel roads. I like exploring :-) Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:23:31 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:23:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Directions to Crossroads Cycle? To: DCC --- "Daniel H. Brown" wrote: > On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Scratch wrote: >.... Under Columbia Pike Over, as you corrected. > and right at Carlin > Springs road, there's a McDonalds there. Right at the > next light, > which should be Seminary. Take Seminary to the end of the > block, > around the hairpin turn and the shop is on your right. > Look > for the gaggle of motorcycles out front. ... and none of this is necessary. As another poster suggested, when you cross over Columbia Pike and are coming down off the bridge toward the furst light, make the first right (essentially a very tight 180 deg. turn) onto the frontage road, and Crossroads is about 200m on your left. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:26:16 2003 Subject: Re: headlight modulators From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 15:22:04 -0400 On Mon, 2003-08-25 at 15:09, William J. Huson wrote: > Carl Schelin wrote: > > > On Thu, 2003-08-14 at 14:53, William J. Huson wrote: > > > > > Very popular among BMW and Gold Wing riders. Headlights and those cute > > > winky faster stop lamps. I don't use any of that on my Harley. The vibes > > > do it for me, modulate all the lamps until the filimens go tits up :-) > > > > > > > I had four left turn signals go out. The right turn signal cover melted > > and when I replaced the cover the bulb went out. > > > > They seemed to be affected by the colder weather since the first ones > > went out before South Dakota and the other three went, one each day, > > after I entered Ontario. > > Dang - got me beat. Since 1998 I've had two bulbs fail out of seven > turn/stop/running lamps. Ride hot & cold, more'n 37K which has included many > miles on gravel roads. I like exploring :-) > When I went to Deal's Gap I lost both front running lights and the left front and rear turn signal. I'm at 23.7k now. > Bill > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:38:03 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:35:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Fatality on 211 Sounds like it Michael J. > Not sure if it is the same accident, but a guy in the office sent someone an e-mail indicating that they were on "Skyline Drive" going up the mountain when a motorcycle crossed the centerline and hit his brother head on. His brother died in his arms. His comment in the e-mail was his brother died doing what he loved, and I [his brother] was with him. That all I know about the accident right now. Judy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:45:23 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Lurking Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 15:55:02 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:54:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. To: Lurking , dc-cycles@XXXXXX You sound like a perfect candidate for a new VFR with ABS. No half fairing but everything else! Mark --- Lurking wrote: > Hello again, > Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. > It sure was a beautiful weekend to > ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, > and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure > was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a > while. > The main question of this e-mail has to do with > my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). > I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have > logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently > have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of > some mechanical attention. I think a > tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve > timing, etc. I'm going to have this > done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward > my next motorcycle purchase (possibly > sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I > have been drooling over (since before I > even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. > It's a sport touring bike, which seems to > be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like > hitting the curves fairly hard > sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at > the speed limit. I don't like interstate > riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type > of riding). > So, I'm still very much considering the > Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes > you all might recommend I check out before deciding > on one for certain. It doesn't have to > be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more > toward comfort might work. Even a > really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding > factors will be (in order of > importance): > > 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max > of 500 miles in a day, max of two or > three days on the road) > 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction > to the Futura, although I hear the > feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your > breath away) > 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) > 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque > makes up for it) > 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could > make me change my mind if two models > are close on the above criteria) > > You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm > looking for a bike that is under $13,000. > If the bike you think I should see is more, don't > worry. I'm considering getting a used > bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may > know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so > it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so > beautiful in my eyes. > > One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has > a half fairing. I think that's the > right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike > the Futura, which has a full fairing, > I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a > somewhat sport bike like upper fairing > (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I > haven't seen many bikes out there like > this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to > mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are > pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it > very comfortable). > > For reference I am: > 6'3" > 32" inseam > 220 lbs. > 24 years old > more mature than most my age > > Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle > topic ;) > > ===== > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and > child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic > security and protect > our homeland." -Adolf Hitler > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:00:32 2003 From: "Dan Thompson" To: "Dc-Cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:59:31 -0400 You might want to look onto an FZ1. I enjoy mine and it sounds like we have similar likes, etc. and similar size (though not age.... :( ) Danny '78 FJ40 '02 FZ1 '02 XR250R CSBA #150 TLCA #13436 -----Original Message----- From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:45 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:11:27 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: lurking444@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:59:45 -0400 Hmmmmmmm, VFR. (and sell the lower fairings on ebay) ;-) Rob '98 VFR800 From: Lurking To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:18:57 2003 Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:18:00 -0500 From: To: An FZ1 is a pretty good choice for a 1/2 fairing bike, a new one can be bought for something like 8K. It will suit a larger rider, has good ergos and decent wind protection. It has a tremendous amount of power however (not ideal for a newbie) , a fair bit more than a Radian, and is a bit top heavy IMO. On a cool day I could spin the rear tire and hoist the front simultaneously ;o) Too bad the Fazer 600 (now with R6 engine) is not coming to the US yet..or ever. What about the Aprila Falco?, that has a 1/2 fairing, a awesome v-twin engine. The riding position may be a bit more on the sport side. George 02 VFR >>> Dan Thompson 08/25/03 03:59PM >>> >You might want to look onto an FZ1. I enjoy mine and it sounds like we have >similar likes, etc. and similar size (though not age.... :( ) >I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike >like upper fairing From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:19:24 2003 Subject: Gear for trade... Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:19:13 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: I've decided to try and trade "right" for my riding gear. What I have: The FirstGear Kilimanjaro jacket, black with red shoulders, in an XL, and the matching pants (all black) in a 34 Tall. Bought earlier this year, worn all of about five times... (Moving and house selling really cuts into riding time!) What I need: The same stuff in a Large jacket, and the pants in a 32 Regular. Basically, I love the gear (it's my second set of the same outfit) but I've lost quite a bit of weight, and the pants were always too long (bought them because the waist was right, thought I could work with the length!). Now the jacket balloons around my torso when I ride, especially with the liner out, the pants are too loose around the waist and the knee armor sags below the knees unless I wear suspenders and cinch them up. I am also open to trading for a one-piece, or trading towards a used 'Stich - as I really don't like a two-piece that doesn't zip together. I've considered leather outfits, but haven't found much that works as well as the First Gear stuff for riding comfort and over-the-clothes ease of use. Waterproof performance is also an issue, and the Kilimanjaro stuff does very well for cold-weather rides. I will also try the Leather Exchange (?), if it's still in business, but I wanted to see if any local listers could use a similar trade. Robert PS: As an added benefit, the outfit doubles as ski wear for down-hill skiing! Crashing on snow is a lot of fun with impact armor in the suit... ;-) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:23:40 2003 Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 25 Aug 2003 16:19:28 -0400 On Sun, 2003-08-24 at 16:19, Michael Jordan wrote: > Shortly after noon - eastbound bike on a downhill right hand bend apparently > went over the centerline and hit an uphill bike. One fatality (not sure > which bike) and at least one other injured rider. Info from a deputy on the > scene. > I don't know the details but I do have an observation. One of the things I pay attention to when running the left hand curves is to stay farther right. Had I not done that, well I was riding one of the nicer roads in the Black Hills when a van came down the road riding just on his side of the double yellow. Had I been in the left hand side of the lane leaning left he definately would have rung my bell. > Anyone on the list know any more? > > Keep it safe out there folks... > And pay attention. > Michael J. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:48:09 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: "Lurking" Cc: Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:47:44 -0400 Althought the Aprillia is a work of art (as are most Italian m/c-s), the insurance and maint costs will kill most 24 y.o's disposable incomes. No flames, please, I intend to own multiple Ducs and/or Aprillias before I die. I think you should rule out all things cruiser if you like cornering, so just get that "Even a really sporty cruiser could work" out of your head before you spend way too much money on a set of metric wrenches and a HD V-Rod. Overall, I don't think you can beat the Yamaha FJR 1300 for sport touring. It has over 70HP, too. Not Italian, and not a twin, though. You don't like SVs, so I won't mention them (oops, just did). And Honda VFRs are pretty able at that game, too, and have a loyal following for a reason (something about MC of the year for many of the last 19 years). The Kaw ZZR looks like a nice sport/touring bike, too. The Kaw ZX-9 is regularly "praised" as the most street-comfort oriented of the open sport bikes, at the sacrafice of all things racey, so it might work for you. The ZRX-1200 has a great motor, but you have to like the styling. But with just 2,000 miles under your belt, you prolly still have a pretty high DF (Doh! Factor), and bodywork is expensive; that rules out most of the above. That said, I love my Suzuki Bandit. I have the nekkid one, but the faired one might meet your needs: Adv: -Dirt Cheap ($7299 msrp, $6500 typical for new; leftovers cheaper, and used even cheaper) -Huge Aftermarket support (make it fast, make it comfortable, or both at the same time) -Large owner community (easy to find lists/websites full of active members w/ tons of advice) -Adaptable (drag race, hooligan, track day, sport tour, Iron Butt, whatever. Someone sells the parts to do it.) -Cheap insurance (about 1/2 to 1/3 as same displacement sport bikes when I shopped around). -More HP than a really sporty cruiser (and nice big torque, too: Stock: 101HP, 72 ft-lb; w/ jet kit & exh: 119HP, 83 ft-lb at rear wheel). Disadv: -Outdated. There's two 1200 Bandits: 2000 and earlier, and 2001 and later. Both based on 1986-88 GSXR 1100 motor stuffed into UJM frame. -Buzzy motor (1986 GSXR1100 technology vibrates!) -No panache. None at all. (can fix somewhat using Huge Aftermarket support noted above). --jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lurking" To: Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:44 PM Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. > Hello again, > > ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 16:49:37 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:49:19 -0400 another good bike. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Thompson" > You might want to look onto an FZ1. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 17:23:46 2003 From: "Rob Curtis" To: "'Lurking'" , Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:23:43 -0400 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.156.176.210] at Mon, 25 Aug 2003 16:23:35 -0500 VFR might be good, IL4, but it's a full-fairing ride. You could also check out the new SV1000. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 15:45 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 19:35:57 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: rmcurtis@XXXXXX, lurking444@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 19:35:40 -0400 IL4??? Um, no. Rob '98 V-4-R ;-) From: "Rob Curtis" To: "'Lurking'" , Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:23:43 -0400 VFR might be good, IL4, but it's a full-fairing ride. You could also check out the new SV1000. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 15:45 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 20:06:10 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:02:39 -0400 Subject: scooters From: Bob McKeithen To: on 8/25/03 7:00 PM, The dc-cycles list administrator at Bill, You and I must be near the same age and have similar Karma. I too have been looking at scooters lately. Had a chance to ride a students new 250 Honda a couple weeks ago --very nice--fast enough to keep up with traffic, but still small enough to be handy. I love my Guzzi but it might be nice to have a spare single track. And I think the SO might ride once and a while. Bob (whelped in '43) From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 20:33:57 2003 From: Michael Lynch To: "'Rob Keiser '" , "'rmcurtis@XXXXXX '" , "'lurking444@XXXXXX '" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX '" Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:35:48 -0400 Yeah, it was funny after the accident, I found out my insurance company had my bike listed as a V5R. HA! I wish! :-) Mike 96 VFR 88 Hawk 76 CB400F -----Original Message----- From: Rob Keiser To: rmcurtis@XXXXXX; lurking444@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX Sent: 8/25/03 7:35 PM Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. IL4??? Um, no. Rob '98 V-4-R ;-) From: "Rob Curtis" To: "'Lurking'" , Subject: RE: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:23:43 -0400 VFR might be good, IL4, but it's a full-fairing ride. You could also check out the new SV1000. Rob -----Original Message----- From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 15:45 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Hello again, Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so far). I currently have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. I think a tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going to have this done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle purchase (possibly sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over (since before I even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, which seems to be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves fairly hard sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't like interstate riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know what other bikes you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It doesn't have to be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might work. Even a really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in order of importance): 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, max of two or three days on the road) 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I hear the feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind if two models are close on the above criteria) You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is under $13,000. If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering getting a used bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is $12,999 so it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think that's the right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a full fairing, I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike like upper fairing (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes out there like this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think the 2003 SV's are pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). For reference I am: 6'3" 32" inseam 220 lbs. 24 years old more mature than most my age Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) ===== "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland." -Adolf Hitler __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 20:45:07 2003 From: "Michael Jordan" To: Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:45:02 -0400 Check out the VStrom - if you can get past the silly name, it's one hell of a motorcycle. As an added bonus, it doesn't get upset when the road turns to gravel. If you want to tour, hard bags are available from Suzuki (made by Givi), Givi (different from OEM) and Jesse. Throttlemeister and Corbin support the scooter. It doesn't have the visceral punch of my GSX 1100G, but it does gather velocity with amazing rapidity (or so I hear) Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 22:09:02 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 22:07:41 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: Bob McKeithen CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: scooters Bob McKeithen wrote: > on 8/25/03 7:00 PM, The dc-cycles list administrator at > > Bill, > > You and I must be near the same age and have similar Karma. I too have been > looking at scooters lately. > > Had a chance to ride a students new 250 Honda a couple weeks ago --very > nice--fast enough to keep up with traffic, but still small enough to be > handy. > > I love my Guzzi but it might be nice to have a spare single track. And I > think the SO might ride once and a while. > > Bob > (whelped in '43) Yep, me born in the year of the steel penny also. We're on the same drift - methinks Mlady would hop on a scooter. Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 23:12:11 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 23:09:51 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bob Meyer Subject: Re: Fatality on 211 At 04:19 PM 8/25/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >I don't know the details but I do have an observation. > >One of the things I pay attention to when running the left hand curves >is to stay farther right. Absolutely. Too many people are forgetting the difference between the track and street. On the track it's (relatively) safe to use every last inch of pavement, and ride at 10/10ths. On the road, you'd better leave yourself a significant margin for error. The track doesn't have reflectors, sand and gravel (usually), oncoming traffic, cages, cops, etc., all of which can jump up and bite your ass on the street. If anyone can't get enough fun running at about 7/10ths on the street, then get your butt to the track. Even if you're running in last place you can still get your rocks off riding to the absolute limits of your ability without near the same risk of dying. Bob From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Mon Aug 25 23:23:20 2003 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 20:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. To: Lurking Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Jon Strang wrote: > Althought the Aprillia is a work of art (as are most > Italian m/c-s), the > insurance and maint costs will kill most 24 y.o's > disposable incomes. No > flames, please, I intend to own multiple Ducs and/or > Aprillias before I die. Aprilias tend to be extremely reliable. My Falco has cost no more than my Honda for routine maintenance. Come to think of it, the insurance is the same too, but I'm a *lot* older than 24. Or two times 24. 8;) I've ridden several Futuras, and I consider them more toward full touring ergonomics than sport touring; my Falco seems to have the ergos that pass for sport touring these days (very close to the Superhawk and VFR). On bikes others have suggested: The V-Strom and FZ1 are great bikes, but they are more upright and top-heavy than most standard types, closer to the BMW 1150 GS and 650 GS in balance. You may like that feeling, and you may not. I'm your height and weight, and they suit me well. The VFR is weighted considerably toward the sport side of the spectrum. Especially at our size, I'm amazed when people tell me they can ride that bike all day. It's just too much weight forward toward the wrists for my body geometry. If those ergos suit you, then check out the Falco too -- it's the same basic engine as the Futura, but with a *lot* more guts, much better sound, and better electronic display to boot, plus a quarter fairing as you prefer. The Futura is sedate and silent and feels underpowered by comparison. (And if you decide you like the Falco, I might be selling mine, the best looking and sounding one around -- my old knees can't handle it these days. 8;) ) The new SV 1000 has considerably tighter leg position than the new SV 650. Dunno exactly what you didn't like about the 1000, but most mags think the non-S 1000 has missed the mark badly, and that the non-S 650 is a superior bike. One you didn't mention that I'm partial to -- since I have one -- is the Honda 919. It doesn't have any fairing, but windscreens are available from Honda and others. This bike doesn't fall easily into other bike classes -- it's much more balanced and nimble than either the V-Strom or the FZ1, with which it's mostly compared. Worth a look. Then too, for Aprilia bucks, the Duc Multistrada should be a candidate. Happy shopping -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 05:45:31 2003 Reply-To: "Brian Ray" From: "Brian Ray" To: Subject: Head Shop Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 05:45:34 -0400 Anyone have any recommendations for a good machine shop? A friend of mine is looking for a place to redo the heads for his '75 gl1000 goldwing. He lives in Manassas & works in the Merrifield area, so anyplace in that general area would be easy, but I'm sure he'd travel a bit for a good shop. Thanks, Brian Ray '80 kz440ltd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 06:42:08 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:56:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Head Shop On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Brian Ray wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for a good machine shop? A friend of mine > is looking for a place to redo the heads for his '75 gl1000 goldwing. He > lives in Manassas & works in the Merrifield area, so anyplace in that > general area would be easy, but I'm sure he'd travel a bit for a good shop. I have a friend that owns a machine shop here in MD. He assembled the bottom end on my Firebird and also ported/assembled the heads/intake. Advanced Valve Service 10087 Tyler Pl Ijamsville, MD 21754-8747 Phone: (301) 831-1047 It's a single-man operation and his name is Dave :-) There are probably shops closer to him, though. I'm just not familiar with any (since I live in MD). -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 06:56:29 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 06:56:02 -0400 From: Tom To: Lurking Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Lurking wrote: >Hello again, > Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful weekend to >ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday morning. Sure >was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. > The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware (i.e. motorcycle). > >For reference I am: >6'3" >32" inseam >220 lbs. >24 years old >more mature than most my age > > > Gotta put my vote in... Honda SuperHawk VTR. You can usually find year old new ones for $1k-2k under list. Used VTR's go for $4-5k. The VTR is close to the VFR in comfort but has 996cc - its not italian but a little cheaper. Besides the forks (fixable with $100), the only down side to the VTR is the range, 4.2 gallons - ugh... Other bikes: (I'd like too) Aprilla Tuno Aprilla Falco VFR Buel XBR12 FJ1300 V-strom FZ1 and I bet the SV1000S ergos could be fixed up... Good luck - so many great bike out there, Tom de '98 VTR - oh, it's a twin. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 07:35:25 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:35:22 -0400 From: Skip Smith To: Rob Curtis CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. I mentioned this directly to lurker, but though I'd mention it to the list... The ZRX1200. naked looks, with an upgraded seat I'm told they are day-long comfortable, and they're pretty reasonable in price -- $6k new, $4-5 a year old. it was going to be my next bike... but guy offered me a payment plan on a V65 Sabre, also a good option if you don't mind having a 20 year old bike. Rob Curtis wrote: > > VFR might be good, IL4, but it's a full-fairing ride. You could also check > out the new SV1000. > > Rob > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lurking [mailto:lurking444@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 15:45 > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. > > Hello again, > Lurkers are coming out of the woodwork lately. It sure was a beautiful > weekend to > ride. I got lost in between Haymarket, Middleburg, and the Plains on Sunday > morning. Sure > was the most fun I've had being lost in quite a while. > The main question of this e-mail has to do with my future hardware > (i.e. motorcycle). > I'm still a newbie (been riding since May, I have logged 2,000 miles so > far). I currently > have a 1986 Yamaha Radian that is in sore need of some mechanical attention. > I think a > tune up is in order, cleaning carbs, checking valve timing, etc. I'm going > to have this > done in a week or two, but I'm also looking toward my next motorcycle > purchase (possibly > sometime this winter at the earliest). The bike I have been drooling over > (since before I > even had my license) is the Aprilia Futura 1000. It's a sport touring bike, > which seems to > be the type of riding I'm most attracted to. I like hitting the curves > fairly hard > sometimes, but most of the time I like to ride at the speed limit. I don't > like interstate > riding all that much (but it's hard to hate any type of riding). > So, I'm still very much considering the Aprilia, but I wanted to know > what other bikes > you all might recommend I check out before deciding on one for certain. It > doesn't have to > be a sport-tourer. I sport bike that is biased more toward comfort might > work. Even a > really sporty cruiser could work. My main deciding factors will be (in > order of > importance): > > 1. comfort for short to medium length rides (say max of 500 miles in a day, > max of two or > three days on the road) > 2. aesthetics! (my main reason for the attraction to the Futura, although I > hear the > feeling and sound of the 115hp V-twin will take your breath away) > 3. handling (must stay under 600 lbs.) > 4. power (like to stay above 70hp, unless the torque makes up for it) > 5. fuel economy (not really a huge factor, but could make me change my mind > if two models > are close on the above criteria) > > You may be surprised I didn't mention price. I'm looking for a bike that is > under $13,000. > If the bike you think I should see is more, don't worry. I'm considering > getting a used > bike if the deal/bike is good enough. As you may know, the Futura's MSRP is > $12,999 so > it's really pushing my financial limits, but it's so beautiful in my eyes. > > One other thing I should mention, my ideal bike has a half fairing. I think > that's the > right term to describe what I'm looking for. Unlike the Futura, which has a > full fairing, > I think I'd prefer a bike with a naked engine, but a somewhat sport bike > like upper fairing > (headlight mounting, windscreen, mirrors, etc.) I haven't seen many bikes > out there like > this (the SV650S is the one that comes directly to mind, although I think > the 2003 SV's are > pretty ugly, and I sat on one and didn't find it very comfortable). > > For reference I am: > 6'3" > 32" inseam > 220 lbs. > 24 years old > more mature than most my age > > Thanks for any input. (finally a pure motorcycle topic ;) > > ===== > "An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great > nation...We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect > our homeland." -Adolf Hitler > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 07:48:36 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 04:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Fatality on 211 >The track doesn't have ... sand and gravel (usually) Interesting side note - over two weeks in the Alps in June, I only noticed gravel in one turn (and there were LOTS of turns). Now that I'm back, it seems that the American National Sport is really scattering gravel - not Baseball (or Football). Not sure if Europeans clean the roads or just know how to stay on the pavement... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 07:54:51 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 04:54:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Aaron Subject: Bike recommendation To: lurking444@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Take a look at some of the "dual-sport" type bikes . . . especially with your inseam. Your knees will thank you. The bid dualies are very versatile -- touring, "sport"-touring, exploring, commuting, etc. -- and hold a ton of stuff if you want. Also, they lack the plastic you complain of (and have lots of engine bars available). Suggestions: Suzuki V-Strom (stong DL 1000 V-twin engine) BMW GS (probably used to get in your price range, but great aftermarket support) Triumph Tiger (probably a great choice for you with its killer engine, good handling. Just make sure that someone can service it -- I think that Clinton Cycles is dropping the line??). __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 10:20:28 2003 From: "rich hall" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:08:54 -0400 What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown during rush hour? ow long should I expect it to take? Thanks, Rich '02 SVS _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 10:24:47 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:24:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel H. Brown" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, rich hall wrote: > > What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown during rush hour? Helicopter? -- Dan Brown brown@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 10:32:04 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: DC to Germantown To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX a) by bike? if so: k street to whitehurst. canal road to parkway. parkway to end, left on macarthur. right on falls. left on river. right on esworthy. right on seneca. left on 28. right on 107. b) too damn long --- rich hall wrote: > What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown > during rush hour? > ow long should I expect it to take? > > Thanks, > Rich > '02 SVS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:06:43 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:06:34 -0400 If you're on the bike, take the parkway to the outer loop, then once at the spur (about 1 mile) you can take the HOV lane all the way up 270. Rob '98 VFR800 From: Tom Gimer To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) a) by bike? if so: k street to whitehurst. canal road to parkway. parkway to end, left on macarthur. right on falls. left on river. right on esworthy. right on seneca. left on 28. right on 107. b) too damn long --- rich hall wrote: > What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown > during rush hour? > ow long should I expect it to take? > > Thanks, > Rich > '02 SVS __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:28:56 2003 From: "rich hall" To: robkeiser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:28:48 -0400 Yes I'm on the bike. Parkway, GW or Rock Creek? >From: "Rob Keiser" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: DC to Germantown >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:06:34 -0400 > >If you're on the bike, take the parkway to the outer loop, then once at the >spur (about 1 mile) you can take the HOV lane all the way up 270. > >Rob >'98 VFR800 > > >From: Tom Gimer >To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: DC to Germantown >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) > >a) by bike? if so: > >k street to whitehurst. canal road to parkway. parkway to >end, left on macarthur. right on falls. left on river. >right on esworthy. right on seneca. left on 28. right on >107. > >b) too damn long > > > >--- rich hall wrote: > > What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown > > during rush hour? > > ow long should I expect it to take? > > > > Thanks, > > Rich > > '02 SVS > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental > _________________________________________________________________ Enter for your chance to IM with Bon Jovi, Seal, Bow Wow, or Mary J Blige using MSN Messenger http://entertainment.msn.com/imastar From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:30:10 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:29:40 -0400 To: "rich hall" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: DC to Germantown At 10:08 AM 8/26/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: >What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown during rush hour? >ow long should I expect it to take? Helicopter from the White house Lawn. About 30 minutes if you walk fast to the Whitehouse and they have the bird warmed up when you get there... -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:36:04 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:35:54 -0400 K st, Whitehurst, Canal Road, Cabin John Parkway, to 495 outer loop, then 270 N at the spur. I think that is the name of it all. One of those routes that I just recognize by driving/riding, not the names. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "rich hall" To: robkeiser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:28:48 -0400 Yes I'm on the bike. Parkway, GW or Rock Creek? >From: "Rob Keiser" >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: DC to Germantown >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:06:34 -0400 > >If you're on the bike, take the parkway to the outer loop, then once at the >spur (about 1 mile) you can take the HOV lane all the way up 270. > >Rob >'98 VFR800 > > >From: Tom Gimer >To: rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: DC to Germantown >Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) > >a) by bike? if so: > >k street to whitehurst. canal road to parkway. parkway to >end, left on macarthur. right on falls. left on river. >right on esworthy. right on seneca. left on 28. right on >107. > >b) too damn long > > > >--- rich hall wrote: > > What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to Germantown > > during rush hour? > > ow long should I expect it to take? > > > > Thanks, > > Rich > > '02 SVS > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:45:33 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:45:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: DC to Germantown To: Mike Bartman , rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yeah but 30 years in a Federal Facility. --- Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:08 AM 8/26/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: > >What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to > Germantown during rush hour? > >ow long should I expect it to take? > > Helicopter from the White house Lawn. About 30 > minutes if you walk fast to > the Whitehouse and they have the bird warmed up when > you get there... > > -- Mike B. > > **************************************************************************** > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > Obfuscation Obliterated * > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > Opinions Offered * > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > Smiles Stimulated * > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > price too high! * > **************************************************************************** > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:49:05 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:49:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX http://www.weather.com/weather/local/20171?lswe=20171&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndeclared __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:52:31 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:52:15 -0400 It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride home. -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:49 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... http://www.weather.com/weather/local/20171?lswe=20171&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndec lared __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 11:54:24 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: RE: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... To: "Silver, Arthur \(NIH/NIGMS\)" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Of course its changed now but it said "Thunder and Wintry mix". Glenn --- "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride > home. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:49 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to > Chantilly in this... > > http://www.weather.com/weather/local/20171?lswe=20171&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndec > lared > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:02:08 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'Glenn Dysart'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:01:57 -0400 I was hoping it would be a while before I'd hear those words "wintry mix". -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:54 AM To: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS); dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to Chantilly in this... Of course its changed now but it said "Thunder and Wintry mix". Glenn --- "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" wrote: > It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride > home. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Dysart [mailto:glenn_dysart@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 11:49 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Geez, I hope nobody is riding out to > Chantilly in this... > > http://www.weather.com/weather/local/20171?lswe=20171&lwsa=WeatherLocalUndec > lared > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site > design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:13:58 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:13:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Brake Pad Question To: DC Cycles Qucik question or two: What do you think about EBC Sintered pads for a VFR? Should I worry too much about my rotors? Also, any good sourced for above mentioned pads? Thanks ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:33:07 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:33:59 -0400 From: "Judy La Follette" To: Subject: Commercial on 94.7 FM (Classic Rock--the Arrow)--safety for motorcycles Early this morning (around 1:30 a.m. and then probably again at 2:30 p.m.) I heard a commercial regarding looking over your shoulder for motorcycles. It is a lady speaking about her husband and then later her brother who both ride motorcycles. She talks about her (brother?) being a firefighter, and saving people's lives, and does not want to get hit on his motorcycle from someone not paying attention. It even mentions one of them not liking soccer vans or the such. I have not actually caught the entire advertisement. I believe it is sponsored by the Maryland Department of Transportation and Safety or so. Anyone else hear it? At least it is a start. Now if they could play it during the daytime as well, and also run it on TV. Judy From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:33:38 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:33:09 -0400 From: Tom To: Mark Kitchell Cc: DC Cycles Subject: Re: Brake Pad Question Mark Kitchell wrote: >Qucik question or two: > >What do you think about EBC Sintered pads for a VFR? >Should I worry too much about my rotors? > Got 'em on my VTR, better braking... a little buzz when applied. Long term reports from the VTR list say no rotor problems. > >Also, any good sourced for above mentioned pads? Thanks > Got mine at chaparral-racing.com, pretty prices. Call tho, make sure you have the right part number. Hope it helps, Tom de '98 VTR > >===== > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:38:39 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 09:38:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Brake Pad Question To: Mark Kitchell , DC Cycles unless your stock setup is insufficient to properly slow the bike, i wouldn't bother. sintered pads increase rotor wear. not only increased wear, but in one instance i warped -- within a month of install -- a pair of ebc rotors with sintered HH pads. --- Mark Kitchell wrote: > Qucik question or two: > > What do you think about EBC Sintered pads for a VFR? > Should I worry too much about my rotors? > > Also, any good sourced for above mentioned pads? Thanks > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:41:59 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: bike suggestions Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:30:46 -0400 deleted recent bike suggestion posts for upright half-faired sport tourer, but would like to suggest my two favorites: aprllia tuono and/or "R" upcoming 2004 ktm duke 2 http://www.motorcycledaily.com/28march03ktmduke950.htm _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 12:59:30 2003 Subject: Please give me some ROAD advice Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 12:59:22 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me salivating over which roads I should check out. I'm looking for the twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. So far, I only know two: 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. Disqualified: Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too much PO presence. Not too mention the flood of tourists on Labor Day. What else should I put on my map? I'm most interested in sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a plus. Absense of armco immediately next to the road also a plus. Witold www.witold.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 13:05:43 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:05:14 -0400 From: Skip To: Mark Kitchell CC: Mike Bartman , rich hall , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: DC to Germantown 3 hots and a cot ain't so bad. Don't ask. Mark Kitchell wrote: > > Yeah but 30 years in a Federal Facility. > > --- Mike Bartman wrote: > > At 10:08 AM 8/26/03 -0400, rich hall wrote: > > >What the best way from Midtown (17th & L) to > > Germantown during rush hour? > > >ow long should I expect it to take? > > > > Helicopter from the White house Lawn. About 30 > > minutes if you walk fast to > > the Whitehouse and they have the bird warmed up when > > you get there... > > > > -- Mike B. > > > > > **************************************************************************** > > * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered > > Obfuscation Obliterated * > > * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled > > Opinions Offered * > > * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined > > Smiles Stimulated * > > > *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* > > * "We do it all! No job too small! No > > price too high! * > > > **************************************************************************** > > > > ===== > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 13:16:40 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:16:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , dc-cycles@XXXXXX witold: i've got plenty of suggestions for you. give me until this evening to put something together. --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me salivating > over which roads I should check out. I'm looking for the > twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. So far, I only know > two: > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > > Disqualified: > Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too much > PO presence. Not too mention the flood of tourists on > Labor Day. > > What else should I put on my map? I'm most interested in > sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a plus. Absense of > armco immediately next to the road also a plus. > > Witold > www.witold.org > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 13:21:25 2003 Subject: RE: Please give me some ROAD advice Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:21:18 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Tom Gimer" , Excellent! To clarify, the roads can be anywhere within reason. I will make this a 3 day riding weekend, and stay at some motels along the way. Maybe I'll leave on Friday, and make it a 4 day weekend :) Witold www.witold.org > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Gimer [mailto:t_gimer@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:17 PM > To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services; > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice > > > witold: > i've got plenty of suggestions for you. give me until this > evening to put something together. > > --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services > wrote: > > > > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me salivating > > over which roads I should check out. I'm looking for the > > twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. So far, I only know > > two: > > > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > > > > Disqualified: > > Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too much > > PO presence. Not too mention the flood of tourists on > > Labor Day. > > > > What else should I put on my map? I'm most interested in > > sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a plus. Absense of > > armco immediately next to the road also a plus. > > > > Witold > > www.witold.org > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 13:45:14 2003 Subject: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Aug 2003 13:40:59 -0400 Deal's Gap Scraped my pegs a couple of times :-) Carl On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 12:59, Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me salivating over which roads I should check out. I'm looking for the twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. So far, I only know two: > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > > Disqualified: > Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too much PO presence. Not too mention the flood of tourists on Labor Day. > > What else should I put on my map? I'm most interested in sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a plus. Absense of armco immediately next to the road also a plus. > > Witold > www.witold.org > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 13:55:28 2003 Reply-To: wayne@XXXXXX From: "wayne@XXXXXX" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:55:20 -0400 Just as I was pulling out of the parking garage here at work to head to the gym (Bethesda), the skies opened up. A couple of obvious things - - 166hp+102tq+675lbs(bike,gear,me)+rain=you gotta be smooth ;-) - holy shit, the onramp at Old Georgetown is slick... almost spilled there, but feathered the clutch to keep power to the wheel and limit wheelspin while leaned over - riding in the downpour was funny, as 270 was mostly empty for me... all the cagers had their hazards on, sitting on the shoulder - CLOSE THE VENTS ON THE FSCKING JACKET!!! :-) - JR Ballistic jacket/pants are mostly waterproof, even in downpour... only my pant cuffs were wet (well and my arms, see above ;-)) It was weird, but I didn't see any other motorcyclists in the downpour ;-) ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) Silvera@XXXXXX It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride home. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 14:05:29 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 11:05:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Glenn Dysart Subject: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , dc-cycles@XXXXXX I'll give you some great roads to ride on and then you can map your way to them. Virginia and WV State Route 39 from Lexington, VA, WAY into WV US250 west of Staunton to Elkins, WV US33, the part you were refering to and on into Elkins, WV VA route 42 is good through most of the state except the area right around Harrisonburg. VA 56 east from Steeles Tavern (I-81 exit 205) to VA 151. From there VA 151 north to VA 6 west back to US 250. US60 from Buena Vista east to Forks of Buffalo The Blue Ridge Parkway... pretty much the whole road Moving further south... VA/WV 16 from Marion, VA west to Welch, WV. One of the best roads in the east IMO. VA route 80 from exit 24 of I-81 west into Kentucky. Esp the section between I-81 and US19 VA route 311 from Salem, VA west to WV route 3 VA 130 from Natural Bridge to Lynchburg WV 20 and US 219 in WV are both great north/south roads through the state just about anywhere on them. Need more? Hit me up off list and I can give you more. Glenn --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services wrote: > > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me > salivating over which roads I should check out. I'm > looking for the twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. > So far, I only know two: > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > > Disqualified: > Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too > much PO presence. Not too mention the flood of > tourists on Labor Day. > > What else should I put on my map? I'm most > interested in sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a > plus. Absense of armco immediately next to the road > also a plus. > > Witold > www.witold.org > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 14:06:50 2003 Reply-To: "Jon Strang" From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: Fw: Please give me some ROAD advice Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:06:36 -0400 Just go to WV and get really f-ing lost. The I-66 to 647 to 211 to I-81 to 33 route just gets you into the state. I'd prolly head south then west then north then back east again over the course of the weekend if I were you. You can't go wrong. Just remember that along the SW to NE roads run parallel to ridges (sweepers) and the E-W roads go up and down them (switchbacks). When you're out of the ridges and into the mountains, they all squiggle nicely. Buy a good map and have a good time. --jon > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" > > > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me salivating over which roads I > should check out. I'm looking for the twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. So > far, I only know two: > > > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 14:12:31 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: "'wayne@XXXXXX'" , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:12:17 -0400 I was about to go to the gym also but I have only jeans and phoenix jacket so I'll skip it today. -----Original Message----- From: wayne@XXXXXX [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:55 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) Just as I was pulling out of the parking garage here at work to head to the gym (Bethesda), the skies opened up. A couple of obvious things - - 166hp+102tq+675lbs(bike,gear,me)+rain=you gotta be smooth ;-) - holy shit, the onramp at Old Georgetown is slick... almost spilled there, but feathered the clutch to keep power to the wheel and limit wheelspin while leaned over - riding in the downpour was funny, as 270 was mostly empty for me... all the cagers had their hazards on, sitting on the shoulder - CLOSE THE VENTS ON THE FSCKING JACKET!!! :-) - JR Ballistic jacket/pants are mostly waterproof, even in downpour... only my pant cuffs were wet (well and my arms, see above ;-)) It was weird, but I didn't see any other motorcyclists in the downpour ;-) ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ Original Message: ----------------- From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) Silvera@XXXXXX It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride home. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 15:27:08 2003 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:26:57 -0400 excellent info. My bro in law is coming down from Columbus on his (newly replaced VTX1800), on Friday and I had mentioned an AMA article about a scenic ride along the western part of Maryland through the national forests. Anyone know the roads along there/directions or have ridden it? tks, -aki > > From: Glenn Dysart > Date: 2003/08/26 Tue PM 02:05:26 EDT > To: Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services , > dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: Please give me some ROAD advice > > I'll give you some great roads to ride on and then you > can map your way to them. > > Virginia and WV State Route 39 from Lexington, VA, WAY > into WV > > US250 west of Staunton to Elkins, WV > > US33, the part you were refering to and on into > Elkins, WV > > VA route 42 is good through most of the state except > the area right around Harrisonburg. > > VA 56 east from Steeles Tavern (I-81 exit 205) to VA > 151. From there VA 151 north to VA 6 west back to US > 250. > > US60 from Buena Vista east to Forks of Buffalo > > The Blue Ridge Parkway... pretty much the whole road > > Moving further south... > > VA/WV 16 from Marion, VA west to Welch, WV. One of > the best roads in the east IMO. > > VA route 80 from exit 24 of I-81 west into Kentucky. > Esp the section between I-81 and US19 > > VA route 311 from Salem, VA west to WV route 3 > > VA 130 from Natural Bridge to Lynchburg > > WV 20 and US 219 in WV are both great north/south > roads through the state just about anywhere on them. > > Need more? Hit me up off list and I can give you > more. > > Glenn > > > > > --- Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services > wrote: > > > > The thought of a 3 day riding weekend has me > > salivating over which roads I should check out. I'm > > looking for the twistiest roads in the Wa/WV area. > > So far, I only know two: > > > > 211 - 10 mile stretch that crosses Skyline Dr. > > 33 - 10 mile stretch that traverses Wa-WV border. > > > > Disqualified: > > Skyline Dr - Awesome road, but too many deer and too > > much PO presence. Not too mention the flood of > > tourists on Labor Day. > > > > What else should I put on my map? I'm most > > interested in sharp, frequent corners :) 2 lanes a > > plus. Absense of armco immediately next to the road > > also a plus. > > > > Witold > > www.witold.org > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 15:29:34 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:29:07 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: morning commute X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Actually, PA. just went helmetless for adult riders. Scooter In a message dated 8/25/2003 9:39:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lisagoddard@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > I pulled up next to a Harley at the last light before I get on 270. I motioned > to the rider that his helmet chin strap was not attached. He commented back > that they can make him actually wear the helmet but fastening it on is a whole > different story..... > > He had PA tags, I don't know what the helmet rule in that state is. > > Needless to say I was happy to see a big black BMW on 66 > this morning with the > rider wearing full gear. > > Lisa > '95 VFR > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. > http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 16:56:03 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 13:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Coming DOWN in DC right now To: DC Cycles WOW How am I gonna get home?? ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:04:00 2003 From: "Shigeru Honda" To: "dc-cycles" Subject: Re: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:59:33 -0400 Darn, it started to rain hard in DC and the sky is super dark.... it better stop by 6pm... --------------------- Shigeru Honda 98 SuperHawk (Street) 99 750 SS (Track) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 2:12 PM Subject: RE: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) > I was about to go to the gym also but I have only jeans and phoenix jacket > so I'll skip it today. > > -----Original Message----- > From: wayne@XXXXXX [mailto:wayne@XXXXXX] > Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 1:55 PM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Wet in Bethesda (was Geez, I hope nobody is riding out...) > > Just as I was pulling out of the parking garage here at work to head to the > gym (Bethesda), the skies opened up. > > A couple of obvious things - > > - 166hp+102tq+675lbs(bike,gear,me)+rain=you gotta be smooth ;-) > - holy shit, the onramp at Old Georgetown is slick... almost spilled > there, but feathered the clutch to keep power to the wheel and limit > wheelspin while leaned over > - riding in the downpour was funny, as 270 was mostly empty for me... all > the cagers had their hazards on, sitting on the shoulder > - CLOSE THE VENTS ON THE FSCKING JACKET!!! :-) > - JR Ballistic jacket/pants are mostly waterproof, even in downpour... > only my pant cuffs were wet (well and my arms, see above ;-)) > > It was weird, but I didn't see any other motorcyclists in the downpour ;-) > ;-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS) Silvera@XXXXXX > > It's raining hard in Bethesda. Gonna be a wet ride home. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:07:34 2003 Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Aug 2003 17:03:23 -0400 Just do what I do. Wrap up the valuables in a plastic bag and use a towel when you get home. You do have waterproof/extra boots at home don't you? :-) Carl On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 16:55, Mark Kitchell wrote: > WOW > > How am I gonna get home?? > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:11:35 2003 Subject: RE: Coming DOWN in DC right now Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:11:23 -0400 From: "Verde, Robert" To: "Mark Kitchell" , "DC Cycles" It's slammin' here in Reston, too... Just saw a weather alert for severe thunderstorms, plus a flash flood watch in effect until 8:00 PM. Drive safe out there... Robert -----Original Message----- From: Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:56 PM To: DC Cycles Subject: Coming DOWN in DC right now WOW How am I gonna get home?? ===== From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:17:03 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 14:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: bike suggestions To: Charlie Ozark , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Charlie Ozark wrote: > aprllia tuono and/or "R" Tuono is a *great* bike, but pricey -- and the styling/color seems more controversial than most Aprilias. > upcoming 2004 ktm duke 2 Do you mean the not-here-yet Duke Twin, rather than the 640 cc single Duke II, which has been out for several years (and which will shake your guts out in much less than a year 8;) )? -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:19:15 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:19 -0400 From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX To: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now X-AOL-IP: 12.36.128.140 Outriggers? :-) Seriously, how am I gonna get home? I walk and I forgot my umbrella this morning. =8-0 Scooter In a message dated 8/26/2003 4:55:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > WOW > > How am I gonna get home?? > > ===== > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:20:17 2003 From: "Charlie Ozark" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:20:09 -0400 check the live weather radar on weather.com. when you zoom in the hundred mile map and "play" it. it time stamps each of the frames on the bottom - gives you a good idea where and how fast the storm is moving. >From: Carl Schelin >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now >Date: 26 Aug 2003 17:03:23 -0400 > >Just do what I do. Wrap up the valuables in a plastic bag and use a >towel when you get home. You do have waterproof/extra boots at home >don't you? :-) > >Carl > >On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 16:55, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > WOW > > > > How am I gonna get home?? > > > > ===== > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:28:26 2003 Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 26 Aug 2003 17:24:13 -0400 That appears to be an IE function it doesn't work on Mozilla/Galeon on my Linux system or Netscape on my Solaris one. However stepping up into the lobby gives me a pretty good view. (Yea I know, I can look at it on my W2000 system; whatever.) Carl On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 17:20, Charlie Ozark wrote: > check the live weather radar on weather.com. when you zoom in the hundred > mile map and "play" it. it time stamps each of the frames on the bottom - > gives you a good idea where and how fast the storm is moving. > > > >From: Carl Schelin > >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > >Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now > >Date: 26 Aug 2003 17:03:23 -0400 > > > >Just do what I do. Wrap up the valuables in a plastic bag and use a > >towel when you get home. You do have waterproof/extra boots at home > >don't you? :-) > > > >Carl > > > >On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 16:55, Mark Kitchell wrote: > > > WOW > > > > > > How am I gonna get home?? > > > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:39:11 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:53:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Outriggers? :-) Seriously, how am I gonna get home? I walk and I forgot my umbrella this morning. =8-0 > > Scooter I rode home from Bethesda to Ijamsville. Awesome :-) It started around 5 minutes into my commute and abso-fucking-lutely poured all the way. Lightning, high winds, standing water. I thought I was a goner when I saw Noah and his ark, but I made it out alright. 8-) I saw about 10 other bikers. 2 VFRs still riding, one CBR(?) 2 up with jeans/t-shirts and the other bikers I passed as they sat under overpasses. FWIW, my lower 1/2 stayed dry, but my JR Ballistic jacket ended up soaked through. My Tourmaster gear kept my stuff reasonably dry, even without using my raincovers. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 17:53:40 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:50:09 -0400 Subject: from another list--wear your gear From: Bob McKeithen To: DC Cycles > hey y'all > > ever do something so stupid that you can't believe you did it? i just did > and it's taken me a while to get over my terminal embarrassment so i could > 'fess up. > > i got my license to ride in 1957. i've never had a scratch or a citation > for riding. i have attended the msf every other year since 1993 because i > ride two-up with my wife and i want to make sure that i'm as safe a rider > as i can be. > > a month ago, on a saturday morning, i rode the 16 miles, on my little > laverda, to the factory to fiddle around with the lsr bikes. i often do > this because we have a machine shop, hoist and lotsa room here. this is a > straight shot down the interstate and the ride is about as exciting as > white bread with mayonaise. it was a very hot morning so i left my joe > rocket, draggin' jeans, leather boots and kevlar-backed gloves neatly > hanging in the closet. in their place, i wore a light cotton jacket, light > jeans, street shoes and light cotton gloves. .......do you spell jackass > with one j or two? > > on the way home, the traffic was heavy but fairly fast. i clearly remember > brake lights coming on in a bunch of cars ahead of me. i braked and that's > all i remember until the helicopter came to airlift me to the trauma unit > in a charlotte hospital. the official reports said that i was struck from > behind, slammed into the steel guard rail and cartwheeled down the median > for over 100 yards. the phoned-in report to the highway patrol was that > there was a fatality......i was lying really still because everything hurt. > > i'll spare you all of the gruesome details of my time in the icu and 'the > ward from hell' and what my recovery as been like..... that's not the point > of this. the point is that i have a lot of external injuries and would not > have suffered any of them had i been properly dressed. fortunately, i was > wearing an arrow, flip-up full face helmet. from the abrasion marks on it, > it is clear that had i been wearing an open face helmet, i would have no > place on which to hang my glasses...and probably no eyes with which to use > them anyway. > > from time to time, we are subjected to the endless circular arguments about > helmet laws, constitutional rights and all of that stuff. you do have a > right to be a jackass as did i........what you do not have a right to do is > to cause grief and suffering to all of those friends and family who have to > watch morphine dripping into your body intravenously. i have to live with > the recovery of my broken and cracked bones.....my wife and family has to > endure a huge burden which was not of their making. > > i'm in a small body brace right now so i can only type with one hand but > hopefully all of the cracked bones are healing quickly. i'll be riding my > ev and the lsr bikes as soon as i have full use of my upper body. i will > dress properly for riding and will continue to shudder ever time i see > someone on a bike wearing a t-shirt, flip-flops and a pudding bowl helmet.. > > sidney in nc > > ps. i've been charged with riding at a speed in excess of that which is > safe for road conditions > > ======)> NEW: Moto Guzzi Leather Goods <(====== > from Gabbiano Leathers - must see. Special gifts from your list web: > http://www.inet-rendezvous.com/MGNOC > > > > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 19:33:17 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:32:00 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX CC: markkitchell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now I rode. Hard to see at times it was coming down so hard, but the lightening flashes helped light the way. Was so soggy I stripped butt-neked in the garage and drip-dried before going in the house. Hey, at least my Harley got washed! Bill ScooterFZR@XXXXXX wrote: > Outriggers? :-) Seriously, how am I gonna get home? I walk and I forgot my umbrella this morning. =8-0 > > Scooter > > In a message dated 8/26/2003 4:55:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, markkitchell@XXXXXX writes: > > > > > > > WOW > > > > How am I gonna get home?? > > > > ===== > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > > software > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 20:49:18 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:49:15 -0700 (PDT) From: dc Subject: re: vintage unobtanium To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX 20 year old bikes rock...they are sexier than you he-males think. d __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 21:00:57 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > I rode. Hard to see at times it was coming down so hard, > but the lightening flashes helped light the way. > Was so soggy I stripped butt-neked in the garage and > drip-dried before going in the house. Hey, at least my > Harley got washed! I rode home at 7pm, and it was dry. The sun even peeped out as I reached Alexandria. 8;) Not rubbing it in for others -- I got soaked on the way in this morning. On the Parkway, and no place to hide. 8;( -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 21:02:50 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:02:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Larry Larson Subject: Re: from another list--wear your gear To: Bob McKeithen , DC Cycles Gotta love the NC cops: guy gets hit from behind, and they cite him for driving too fast for conditions. -- Larry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Tue Aug 26 23:45:41 2003 Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 23:52:56 -0400 From: Shigeru Honda To: DC-Cycles Subject: YSR with DR350 engine... Wicked YSR 50 with DR350 thumper engine on Ebay. Someone on the list? 1989 YSR 50 W/ ELEC START 350 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&category=6718&item=2429766950 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 01:54:31 2003 Subject: Re: Brake Pad Question From: Brian Roach To: DC Cycles Date: 27 Aug 2003 01:54:22 -0400 EBC sells a LOT of rotors, mainly to people who use EBC HH pads. If you like shockingly brutal initial bite, and don't mind replacing your rotors after a while, get some double-H pads. There are a lot of other high-performance brake pads out there (sintered, carbon-kevlar, etc) from other companies that don't eat rotors. I ran Ferodo pads for 2 years, then switched to performance friction last year. Both are awesome, and I've yet to have to replace a rotor on any of my race bikes. We've had lots of customers with HH induced warped rotors. - Roach On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 12:38, Tom Gimer wrote: > unless your stock setup is insufficient to properly slow > the bike, i wouldn't bother. sintered pads increase rotor > wear. not only increased wear, but in one instance i > warped -- within a month of install -- a pair of ebc rotors > with sintered HH pads. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 07:44:25 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 04:44:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: hmmm To: DC Cycles http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6026&item=2429616594 looks like somebody's getting married ;) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 07:48:45 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 08:03:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: DC Cycles Subject: Re: hmmm On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Tom Gimer wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6026&item=2429616594 > > looks like somebody's getting married ;) Or divorced :-) -- Wayne From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 10:07:32 2003 From: "Mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Re: Request for ideas of which bikes to check out. Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:05:04 -0400 Just arrived in mail -- October "Motorcyclist" America's 50 best used bikes. Prices, rundowns, weak points, buytips. S/b on stands soon. Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 > Maybe on list next year. Underrated, overworked. Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 10:25:36 2003 Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now From: Carl Schelin To: Larry Larson Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 27 Aug 2003 10:21:21 -0400 On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 21:00, Larry Larson wrote: > --- "William J. Huson" wrote: > > I rode. Hard to see at times it was coming down so hard, > > but the lightening flashes helped light the way. > > Was so soggy I stripped butt-neked in the garage and > > drip-dried before going in the house. Hey, at least my > > Harley got washed! > > I rode home at 7pm, and it was dry. The sun even peeped out > as I reached Alexandria. 8;) > As did I. The bike was a little damp but I didn't see any sun on the way home. The roads were a little wetter the closer I got to Woodbridge. > Not rubbing it in for others -- I got soaked on the way in > this morning. On the Parkway, and no place to hide. 8;( > > -- Larry > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 10:41:41 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Wayne Edelen wrote: > I rode home from Bethesda to Ijamsville. Awesome :-) It started around > 5 minutes into my commute and abso-fucking-lutely poured all the way. > Lightning, high winds, standing water. I thought I was a goner when I saw > Noah and his ark, but I made it out alright. 8-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ I rode home from Reston to Leesburg right around 4pm. The writing was in the sky when I left. Man was it dark. Made it through 3/4 of the way, might have made it home if the cagers weren't going 10 under because it was getting dark. The last 5 minutes it started to dump gallons upon gallons. Couple of Hardley's under the over passes. The wind...sheesh... I was in full lean going straight at times. Then I went out riding later that evening after drying off, headed up 9, no gas at the Texaco cause the power was out... no sweat, I'll get gas at Harpers Ferry. No power either. Ended up making it to Charles town with .188 gallons left. By the time that was over with, it was dark and I got to ride home with my dark face shield. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 11:13:47 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Wayne Edelen To: Subject: Wind speed (was Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now) On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, dan wrote: > I rode home from Reston to Leesburg right around 4pm. The writing was in > the sky when I left. Man was it dark. Made it through 3/4 of the way, > might have made it home if the cagers weren't going 10 under because it > was getting dark. The last 5 minutes it started to dump gallons upon > gallons. Couple of Hardley's under the over passes. The wind...sheesh... > I was in full lean going straight at times. I was lucky enough to be traveling most north, while the winds seemed to be coming at me from the NW. I was blown around pretty seriously in my lane, bad enough at low speeds (10-15mph) that I was concerned about being blown over by some gusts. Does anyone know the wind speeds that a biker should park it behind shelter, to avoid being blown over? Also, are we more vulnerable to lightning? I thought about that as the strikes were going off all around me last night :-) It was the first time I'd ridden in a storm where the lightning strikes were so close to me. -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 12:16:26 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:15:48 -0400 From: Dave Yates Subject: Re: Wind speed (was Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now) To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Wayne admitted: > I was blown around pretty seriously in my lane, bad enough >at low speeds (10-15mph) that I was concerned about being >blown over by some gusts. Does anyone know the wind speeds >that a biker should park it behind shelter, to avoid being >blown over? [Dave] Depends on the bike. I know of what you speak, in 2k, I was caught on the Beltway several times by PM storms. 1 of them was particularly impressive. I think it was a little more severe than yesterday's, but that's just my opinion... I got caught about Central Ave, and I remember seeing the "sheets" of horizontal rain coming at me, being stung by the rain impact on my Stich and it was hitting me with a nasty head wind. Anyway, the crosswinds start causing me serious trouble about 40mph. By serious trouble, I mean sudden corrections in the rain could put me on the pavement. Of course, bikes like ours are heavy sails in those kinds of winds... If me & the bike are being blown.. < uh...huh...huhuh...he said blown...> across most of the width of the lane, I'm thinking - where's my cover... >Also, are we more vulnerable to lightning? I thought about >that as the strikes were going off all around me last >night :-) [Dave] Yes. No cage around you to serve as the "Path of least resistance" to ground. Therefore, if struck, you will be Mother Nature's next guest on "You've become the ground!" Yesterday's commute home, I was actually glad to be caged... Dave Yates From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 12:44:54 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 12:45:02 -0400 To: Wayne Edelen , From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Wind speed (was Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now) At 11:28 AM 8/27/03 -0400, Wayne Edelen wrote: >I was blown around pretty seriously in my >lane, bad enough at low speeds (10-15mph) that I was concerned about being >blown over by some gusts. Does anyone know the wind speeds that a biker >should park it behind shelter, to avoid being blown over? Those ones? :^) The reports last night were that gusts were hitting 80 mph at times. That's 20 mph past hurricane force, and in the vicinity of a strength you can't *walk* in without being blown over. Riding in that isn't smart if you ask me. >Also, are we more vulnerable to lightning? I thought about that as the >strikes were going off all around me last night :-) Yes, you are. Cars aren't protected by their tires...the lightning crossed an open air gap of several thousand feet to get to the ground...it's not likely to have a problem with a foot or so more to bypass the tires. What protects the cagers is the Faraday cage they are riding in. The metal shell of the car is a much better conductor than the passengers, so the lighting goes that way for the most part. On a bike, you are the highest point, and you are in contact with the metal of the bike, so you are more likely to be part of the conducting path. Getting under an overpass, or into a parking garage, or a ditch, or even lying flat on some level ground, seems like a decent idea if the strikes are heavy and close. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 13:04:18 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:07:59 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Wind speed (was Re: Coming DOWN in DC right now) > The reports last night were that gusts were hitting 80 mph at times. > That's 20 mph past hurricane force, and in the vicinity of a strength you > can't *walk* in without being blown over. Riding in that isn't smart if > you ask me. Can't walk in 80mph wind?? Bah, Maybe if you are a weakling I've walked around in a Hurricane or two, kinda fun (and dangerous). > likely to be part of the conducting path. Getting under an overpass, or > into a parking garage, or a ditch, or even lying flat on some level ground, > seems like a decent idea if the strikes are heavy and close. > Ditches are dangerous.... you might have drowned yesterday! From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 14:33:38 2003 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX Subject: regarding June 25 motorcycle fatality in Potomac Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:33:34 GMT http://www.gazette.net/200335/potomac/news/174747-1.html Lisa '95 VFR --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 15:41:57 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:41:53 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Lightning strike in Colorado Today's Denver Post carried this; 'Colorado Springs-- A Florida motorcyclist died near Lake George in Colorado's sixth lightning-related fatality this year. Robert McCormack, 59, was struck in the neck by lightning as he drove east on U.S. 24 on Sunday, the Colorado State Patrol said. McCormack, who was wearing a helmet and traveling about 50 mph, crashed after being struck. An autopsy Monday revealed the St. Augustine man died from the lightning strike, not the crash. Colorado has averaged three lightning deaths annually since 1959. The last time lightning killed a motorcyclist was in August 1984 near Cripple Creek.' From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 16:49:44 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:49:58 -0400 To: lisagoddard@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: regarding June 25 motorcycle fatality in Potomac At 06:33 PM 8/27/03 GMT, lisagoddard@XXXXXX wrote: > >http://www.gazette.net/200335/potomac/news/174747-1.html "A 2002 Ford Escape driven by Katherine Gorman, 17, of Chevy Chase was traveling north on Seven Locks Road when it crossed the centerline for unknown reasons and struck Braswell head-on, despite his efforts to swerve onto the southbound shoulder in an attempt to avoid the collision." That sounds a little like an accident that happened in front of my house a year or so ago. 16 year old driver in Mommy's minivan left the road over the right curb, plowed through a mailbox in one yard, and two saplings recently planted along the street as well as a stone mailbox pillar before stopping in the next. It was a clear, dry day, with no other traffic, and a residential street (i.e. 25 mph limit). The girl said she "lost control", but my suspicion is that she was fiddling with the radio or fumbling in her purse for something, and wasn't experienced enough at driving to divide her attention like that without having an accident. I was just glad she only took out a couple of mailboxes and two small trees...and the mini van's front end...rather than some kid or other innocent victim. I suspect the Potomac killing is of a similar nature. Perhaps it hasn't been wise of the entertainment media to fill kid's heads with the idea that they know best and all the older folks, particularly their fathers, are idiots? It tends to lead to even more unsupported and inappropriate confidence than kids are naturally prone to anyway. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 17:31:33 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:30:50 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: GSXR-1000 to lose its crown? http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2004/Kawasaki/ZX10/ZX10_Page1.htm Also, looks like Kawi is getting into the "power" cruiser market. http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2004/Kawasaki/VN2000/VN2000_Page1.htm -Sean Jordan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 18:41:58 2003 Subject: Leathers Repair From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:37:47 -0400 Hey, I have a pair of leather chaps that worked ok when I first got them but after this past winter the zipper started separating. On the trip, a leather shop out in Boise explained that the mechanism was to blame and that it needed to be tuned. She explained that the feed and splitter were loose and she tightened them up by taking a pair of pliers, an anvil and a hammer and pinching them. They failed after she tuned it so she replaced the zipper heads. They worked ok for a day or so but on my way to Fernie in BC they split out again. I used a couple of small bungees and ultimately used electrical tape the rest of the way home. I wasn't able to get my head around "tightening the zipper mech causes the zipper itself to be tighter and not fail". The zipper is so loose that I can pull it back up after it's split. It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. Thanks, Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 19:14:28 2003 From: "Rob Keiser" To: cschelin@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers Repair Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:02:48 -0400 The only place I can think of is Bedo's in Falls Church. http://www.leatherrepair.com/ Rob '98 VFR800 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Leathers Repair Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:37:47 -0400 Hey, I have a pair of leather chaps that worked ok when I first got them but after this past winter the zipper started separating. On the trip, a leather shop out in Boise explained that the mechanism was to blame and that it needed to be tuned. She explained that the feed and splitter were loose and she tightened them up by taking a pair of pliers, an anvil and a hammer and pinching them. They failed after she tuned it so she replaced the zipper heads. They worked ok for a day or so but on my way to Fernie in BC they split out again. I used a couple of small bungees and ultimately used electrical tape the rest of the way home. I wasn't able to get my head around "tightening the zipper mech causes the zipper itself to be tighter and not fail". The zipper is so loose that I can pull it back up after it's split. It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. Thanks, Carl _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 19:50:36 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:47:05 -0400 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 08/27/03 From: Bob McKeithen To: l> > I have a pair of leather chaps that worked ok when I first got them > but after this past winter the zipper started separating. > > On the trip, a leather shop out in Boise explained that the mechanism > was to blame and that it needed to be tuned. She explained that the feed > and splitter were loose and she tightened them up by taking a pair of > pliers, an anvil and a hammer and pinching them. They failed after she > tuned it so she replaced the zipper heads. They worked ok for a day or > so but on my way to Fernie in BC they split out again. > > I used a couple of small bungees and ultimately used electrical tape > the rest of the way home. > > I wasn't able to get my head around "tightening the zipper mech > causes the zipper itself to be tighter and not fail". The zipper is so > loose that I can pull it back up after it's split. > > It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. > > Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. > > Thanks, > > Carl > > > Or you could ditch the chaps and get a decent pair of riding pants. Chaps are for the costume riders. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 20:06:27 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:05:48 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Leathers Repair At 06:37 PM 8/27/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. I'm with you. The zipper head might need tightening if it isn't zipping properly, but if it's meshing the teeth together, it's working properly. If the teeth themselves come apart later on, somewhere other than at the zipper head, then either the teeth are worm (inspect), the zipper was crap to start with and the mounting fabric is too flexible and lets the teeth twist, the zipper wasn't installed properly to start with and was damaged, or...you need a larger size in your chaps these days! :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 21:15:25 2003 Reply-To: "Brian Ray" From: "Brian Ray" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: OT: Employment Attorneys? Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:11:50 -0400 Anyone have any recommendations for attorneys knowledgeable in employment issues, particularly in VA? Thanks, Brian Ray '80 kz440ltd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Wed Aug 27 22:13:01 2003 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 19:12:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: OT: Employment Attorneys? To: Brian Ray , DC-Cycles give me just a few more details and i'll give you a couple names. --- Brian Ray wrote: > Anyone have any recommendations for attorneys > knowledgeable in employment > issues, particularly in VA? > > Thanks, > > Brian Ray > '80 kz440ltd > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 00:12:13 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:06:42 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers Repair X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop017.verizon.net from [141.157.68.159] at Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:11:58 -0500 Carl Schelin wrote: >Hey, > > I have a pair of leather chaps that worked ok when I first got them >but after this past winter the zipper started separating. > > Snip > Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. > > Thanks, > >Carl > Carl, Most Laundry shops that advertise Tailoring can do that repair. They might not have the correct length of zipper in stock and may have to order one in. I've had my gear repaired at 3 different shops and none of the repairs have failed. Keeps my 5 year old, Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket, on the road. Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 00:48:55 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:43:29 -0400 From: "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: DCCycles Subject: GPS question X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH at pop016.verizon.net from [141.157.68.159] at Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:48:44 -0500 Hi all, For a while now I've been planning on getting a GPS unit for finding my way home after purposely getting myself lost while out on the motorcycle. With my new job as a Private Process Server, I could write it off if I could us a GPS while I'm working. I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. My area covers Balt. City, Balt. County , Anne Arundle County, and Howard County. Can a GPS unit be used in that way? Steven C. Di Pietro Interim National Director The Suzuki Owners Club -USA 16 W. Jeffrey Street Baltimore Md. 21225-1713 http://www.soc-usa.org 1996 Suzuki Katana 600 2001 Suzuki Marauder 800 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 05:37:38 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:36:22 -0400 From: "William J. Huson" To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" CC: DCCycles Subject: Re: GPS question "Steven C. Di Pietro" wrote: > Hi all, > For a while now I've been planning on getting a GPS unit > for finding my way home after purposely getting myself lost while out on > the motorcycle. With my new job as a Private Process Server, I could > write it off if I could us a GPS while I'm working. > I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm > looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve > summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. My area > covers Balt. City, Balt. County , Anne Arundle County, and Howard > County. Can a GPS unit be used in that way? > Well, if you're self employed and filing Schedule C you could depreciate the GPS unit, and an upscale model with one of them LCD screens and a "you are here" icon would be able to plant you right on target. I've seen them programmed to leave a "crumb trail" so you can reverse the trip. The GPS could also provide exact milage for Schedule C deductions. Don't know makes and models - use a map meself... Bill From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 07:10:55 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:10:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: GPS question >I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm >looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve >summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. Steven, The Garmin Street Pilot III (or better) will do exactly what you want to do - turn by turn routing to a street address. Downsides: It's large (intended for an automobile dashboard - but it can be mounted on a bike with RAM Mounts (www.cyclegadgets.com) It's somewhat expensive - around $1K Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 07:27:48 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:27:45 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: Michael Jordan Reply-To: Michael Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: GSXR-1000 to lose its crown? >Also, looks like Kawi is getting into the "power" cruiser market. As is Triumph with a 2.3 liter inline triple. Torque to me... Michael J. From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 08:45:13 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 05:45:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Faas Subject: Re: GPS Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Yes. The Garmin Streetpilot 2610 (next model up from the Street Pilot III) will do that. I'm about to order mine; a friend has the Street Pilot III and I'm very impressed. The 2610 is nice because it will use CompactFlash memory to store the maps (whereas the Street Pilot III used a proprietary memory card). You'll need a PC to upload maps into the GPS unit. As someone else pointed out, you'll also need to work up a shelf to mount it on. Here's the product page: http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2610_2650/ Check out http://www.tvnav.com -> They have this unit for $780. Brad '99 SV650 '00 SV650 '04 FJR 1300 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 09:00:17 2003 From: "Wesleyan Hsu" To: "'Brad Faas'" , Subject: RE: GPS Question Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:00:01 -0400 TVNAV's price on the 2610 is going up within the next 2-3 days, so if you're serious about the 2610, order it now! For a smaller auto-routing unit, go with a Garmin GPS V. It's cheaper and smaller than the SP3 or 2610. But, it has a limited fixed amount of built-in memory, so I'm not sure if you would be able to get all the street level maps and routing information you'd need in it. Personally, I find the larger screen of the SP series to be better on a bike, but others find the smaller screen of the GPS V/III+ to be sufficient. One thing to consider about the 2610 and bike use...I haven't heard of anyone trying out the touch screen with gloves on. I even have trouble hitting the buttons on my StreetPilot in a lightweight summer glove. I use a Garmin StreetPilot (yeah, kinda old) on the bike and an eTrex Vista for when I'm out and about. Although auto-routing would be nice, I find it easy enough to just pre-plan my route the night before and download them into the GPS unit. I'm not sure if this would be sufficient for your needs, but it could enhance whatever method you currently use (especially in the "I'm lost and I don't know where I am" situations). I also highly recommend that you check out TVNAV.com. They have decent prices and are very helpful. Standard disclaimer applies...I'm just a very satisfied customer. Oh, and although I haven't tried out other brands, Garmin's technical support is second to none. You'll hear this over and over and they've done me right twice which is why I keep giving them my business. Wes Hsu > -----Original Message----- > From: Brad Faas [mailto:mcracer980@XXXXXX] > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 8:45 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: GPS Question > > > Yes. The Garmin Streetpilot 2610 (next model up from > the Street Pilot III) will do that. I'm about to order > mine; a friend has the Street Pilot III and I'm very > impressed. The 2610 is nice because it will use > CompactFlash memory to store the maps (whereas the > Street Pilot III used a proprietary memory card). > > You'll need a PC to upload maps into the GPS unit. > > As someone else pointed out, you'll also need to work > up a shelf to mount it on. > > Here's the product page: http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2610_2650/ > > Check out http://www.tvnav.com -> They have this unit > for $780. > > Brad > '99 SV650 > '00 SV650 > '04 FJR 1300 > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design > software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 10:06:26 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:06:46 -0400 To: "William J. Huson" , "Steven C. Di Pietro" From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GPS question Cc: DCCycles At 05:36 AM 8/28/03 -0400, William J. Huson wrote: >Well, if you're self employed and filing Schedule C you could depreciate >the GPS unit, and an upscale model with one of them LCD screens and a "you >are here" icon would be able to plant you right on target. I've seen them >programmed to leave a "crumb trail" so you can reverse the trip. The GPS >could also provide exact milage for Schedule C deductions. You don't have to go "upscale" to get LCD screens, "you are here" markers or track and odometer functions. My Magellan Meridian does all that (and more), and came complete with street maps for the USA, a car mount and cigarette lighter power connector and extra memory for about $210 at Costco two years ago. The main missing requirement for Steven is the ability to input an address and get a waypoint from it. You can set a waypoint anywhere you like and get told bearing and distance, etc., as well as having a line appear on the map from where you are to where you are going, but you have to do it by moving the cursor to the location...you can't input "1234 Main Street". Once you've been there and have the track you took recorded you can have it automatically generate a route (series of waypoints...i.e. turns) and save it for use again. You can also run a route backwards. The resetable trip odometer is nice at times, as is the speedometer (found out my Jeep's was off...until I got larger tires, now it's right on +/- .4 mph). It also shows ETA, total elapsed time, and other displays, but they are more useful in planes and boats where you can go direct, rather than wandering all over the landscape following the highway system...it predicts ETA based on current speed and distance to the waypoint, and on the roads that's almost always wrong. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 10:06:26 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:59:23 -0400 To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: GPS question At 12:43 AM 8/28/03 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm >looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve >summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. My area >covers Balt. City, Balt. County , Anne Arundle County, and Howard >County. Can a GPS unit be used in that way? The average GPS? Nope. They can tell you where you are, and even draw street maps for you, but they work in lat/long, not street address terms. The size of the area isn't a problem though...my Meridian unit has enough memory to hold all of Maryland, Pennsylvania north to Pilladelphia, Virginia south to Richmond and a chunk of West Virginia out past Paw Paw, all at once. It's also waterproof. There's one GPS that *might* do what you want...it's called a "Street Pilot". It's not cheap (about $600), but it has a color screen and does things like giving turn-by turn directions to a given destination as you travel. It's intended for use in cars, so I don't know if its waterproof or not, and it's larger than the average unit...about the size of a small paperback book. Brookstone used to carry them, but I don't know if they still do. A Google search should turn up more info and vendors. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 10:30:58 2003 From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: cschelin@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 08/27/03 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:30:44 +0000 X-Authenticated-Sender: cHVyZHlqZXJlbXlAYXR0Lm5ldA== Bedo's Leatherworks in downtown Falls Church. They do a lot of custom motorcycle leather work. I have had zippers replaced on chaps there before (that's what I got for buying cheap chaps). It cost about $40. They do excellent work and have been around for a long time. Zipper replacement takes about a week. -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star >Subject: Leathers Repair >From: Carl Schelin >To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Date: 27 Aug 2003 18:37:47 -0400 > >Hey, > > I have a pair of leather chaps that worked ok when I first got them >but after this past winter the zipper started separating. > > On the trip, a leather shop out in Boise explained that the mechanism >was to blame and that it needed to be tuned. She explained that the feed >and splitter were loose and she tightened them up by taking a pair of >pliers, an anvil and a hammer and pinching them. They failed after she > >tuned it so she replaced the zipper heads. They worked ok for a day or >so but on my way to Fernie in BC they split out again. > > I used a couple of small bungees and ultimately used electrical tape >the rest of the way home. > > I wasn't able to get my head around "tightening the zipper mech >causes the zipper itself to be tighter and not fail". The zipper is so >loose that I can pull it back up after it's split. > > It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. > > Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. > > Thanks, > >Carl -- Jeremy Purdy purdyjeremy@XXXXXX "Keep a green tree in your heart and perhaps a songbird will come." - Chinese Proverb From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 10:45:18 2003 Subject: Re: dc-cycles digest for 08/27/03 From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 10:41:03 -0400 On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 19:47, Bob McKeithen wrote: > > > > > > Or you could ditch the chaps and get a decent pair of riding pants. Chaps are > for the costume riders. > But I ride a Harley. Doesn't that automatically make me a poser? Chaps are my only choice in that case :-) Thanks for the tip though. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 10:50:09 2003 Subject: Re: Leathers Repair From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 10:45:58 -0400 On Wed, 2003-08-27 at 20:05, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 06:37 PM 8/27/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > > It sounds like I need the aluminum zippers itself replaced. > > I'm with you. The zipper head might need tightening if it isn't zipping > properly, but if it's meshing the teeth together, it's working properly. And that's why I couldn't get my head around it. I couldn't figure out how a tighter head would make any difference in the teeth. > If the teeth themselves come apart later on, somewhere other than at the > zipper head, then either the teeth are worm (inspect), Originally it was hard to get the teeth back together. It got easier with each split though. Now, when it splits I can just zip it back together. > the zipper was crap > to start with Probably crap. At the time I was looking for cheap chaps since someone here at work had a POC for replacement zippers. Unfortunately the POC isn't available any more. > and the mounting fabric is too flexible and lets the teeth > twist, the zipper wasn't installed properly to start with and was damaged, > or...you need a larger size in your chaps these days! :^) > Or smaller ones. The left side flaps in the wind a lot where the right side doesn't. But thanks for looking on the positive side ;-) The thing is that it usually splits when I'm getting off or on the bike. When I initially zip it and get on it's fine. When I get off for a break and get back on is when I notice it's split. > -- Mike B. > Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:08:01 2003 Subject: Yellow Jacket From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 11:03:48 -0400 In Canada while coming out of a litter stop I picked up a hitchhiker in the crook of my right arm. After the second or third sting I investigated and flung the little bugger out but my arm swelled up nicely. On the way in this morning by Washington Blvd I picked up another one of the buggers, this time under the leathers and my shirt in the collarbone hollow. Three lovely stings before I pitched the little shit out. Now I'm sporting an ice bag on the neck. Fortunately I'm not allergic. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:12:31 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom De Subject: Re: GPS Question To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Brad Faas wrote: I'm about to order mine; > Check out http://www.tvnav.com -> They have this > unit for $780. > '99 SV650 > '00 SV650 > '04 FJR 1300 Brad also has a BMW Z3... Ah, to be young, working and single...and no kids!! :-D Tom de '98 VTR From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:13:49 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:13:29 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Norfolk shots FYI - I'm on a yacht in Norfolk doing satellite work (business) and set up my webcam for some live water action. http://www.troutman.org/workcam.shtml No rain here, but I have been enjoying the rain and wind stories this week. Glad I wasn't riding in it. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr 1997 Honda VFR 750 AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ NMA http://www.motorists.org 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:29:56 2003 Subject: Re: Norfolk shots From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 11:25:46 -0400 I rode home in last nights ... well downpour doesn't do it justice. Gully washer might be a better description. The rain was horizontal coming from the right and in the air vent in my rain jacket. The splashing from the vehicles in the left lane were splashing up into the left vent. I was keeping track of the lightning. There was lots of flashing but just the occasional crack of thunder. I hit the first wind and washer while going over the 14th street bridge. It let up as I passed Washington Blvd. As I approached Springfield the rain was so thick that I couldn't see any of the construction. Traffic was running between 55 and higher. Other than some bonehead with no head lights, I made it home with no incidents. Nice warm rain though. The bike's still not clean though. Carl On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:13, Troutman wrote: > FYI - I'm on a yacht in Norfolk doing satellite work (business) and set up > my webcam for some live water action. > > http://www.troutman.org/workcam.shtml > > No rain here, but I have been enjoying the rain and wind stories this > week. Glad I wasn't riding in it. > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > 1997 Honda VFR 750 > AMA http://www.ama-cycle.org/ > NMA http://www.motorists.org > > 2000 Durango SLT 4x4 4.7 44k miles For sale $16k > http://classifieds.autos.yahoo.com/class/detail.html?cid=automobiles-1061168440-6238393 > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:34:31 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:34:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Brad Faas Subject: Re: GPS Question To: Tom De , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Tom De wrote: > Brad also has a BMW Z3... > > Ah, to be young, working and single...and no kids!! Yeah, if I could ditch that whole "working" thing, I'd be set. Maybe have time to play with the toys then. :-) Brad '99 SV650 '00 SV650 '04 FJR1300 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:36:01 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:36:22 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Leathers Repair At 10:45 AM 8/28/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >Or smaller ones. The left side flaps in the wind a lot where the right >side doesn't. But thanks for looking on the positive side ;-) > >The thing is that it usually splits when I'm getting off or on the bike. >When I initially zip it and get on it's fine. When I get off for a break >and get back on is when I notice it's split. Does it split most on the left side? If so, it may be the flapping, combined with a cheap zipper, that's the cause. If the teeth can rotate even a little around their longitudinal axis, and something rotates them, they can disengage from each other. If a few go, the nearby ones will follow with only a little urging. Replacing with a good quality zipper, properly installed, should fix it I'd think. Or you could just get leather pants and quit feeding the poser idea. I'm about to get a Harley I think, and I don't like that concept much. Hate to have to drive a few sport bikers into the ground like tent pegs to make the point. :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:40:39 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:41:03 -0400 To: Carl Schelin , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Norfolk shots At 11:25 AM 8/28/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: >I rode home in last nights ... well downpour doesn't do it justice. >Gully washer might be a better description. Down in Virginia Beach we used to get them all the time. I called them "frog drowners"...the sort of rain where if you jump out of cover, then jump back in, you might as well have been swimming as far as how wet you are. -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:40:39 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:40:27 -0400 From: Skip CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers Repair Carl Schelin wrote: [snip] > > Does anyone have a better idea or a local biker type leather shop. > > Thanks, > > Carl I mentioned this to Carl directly, but it occurred to me that there might be others who could use the info. Tricks of the Trade in Great Falls. reasonable prices and quality work. I've never been disappointed by them. --skip From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:43:20 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:43:06 EDT Subject: Re: Yellow Jacket To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/28/2003 11:12:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > After the second or third sting OW! Reminds me I need to replace my little "sting away" thingie that I keep in the bike. It is about the size of a pen and does help relieve the sting. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:47:58 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:47:46 EDT Subject: Re: Norfolk shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/28/2003 11:30:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > I was keeping track of the lightning. BTW the greatest number of lightning strikes is on the leading and trailing edge of the storm so just because the rain has not quite started yet does not infer safety. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:52:23 2003 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:52:09 EDT Subject: Re: Norfolk shots To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/28/2003 11:40:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omni@XXXXXX writes: > the sort of rain where if you jump out of cover, then > jump back in, you might as well have been swimming as far as how wet you are. > The kind where you put your rainsuit on before you go even go out and as a result remain dryer then the cage drivers who need to run or from their cars? Gotta love those. I keep an umbrella in the bike. What does that say about me? John. Fanatic.... PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 11:52:34 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:57:21 -0400 (EDT) From: dan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Leathers Repair On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Mike Bartman wrote: > Or you could just get leather pants and quit feeding the poser idea. I'm > about to get a Harley I think, and I don't like that concept much. Hate to > have to drive a few sport bikers into the ground like tent pegs to make the > point. :^) > I haven't seem many leather pants that are comfy enough for long trips that offer any kind of protection. I wear textile, comfy, waterproof and breatable. Easy on and off. I guess I look out of place when on the Hog, but who cares. Maybe I should get a skull and cross bones on the back of my JR Balistic jacket? A do-rag over the top of my full-face? Dan From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:04:37 2003 Subject: Re: Leathers Repair From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:00:25 -0400 On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:36, Mike Bartman wrote: > At 10:45 AM 8/28/03 -0400, Carl Schelin wrote: > > >Or smaller ones. The left side flaps in the wind a lot where the right > >side doesn't. But thanks for looking on the positive side ;-) > > > >The thing is that it usually splits when I'm getting off or on the bike. > >When I initially zip it and get on it's fine. When I get off for a break > >and get back on is when I notice it's split. > > Does it split most on the left side? Only on the left side. The right side is rock solid. > If so, it may be the flapping, > combined with a cheap zipper, that's the cause. The flapping is fairly new. I've lost a little weight and lost a few pounds on the trip (no time for snacking while riding :-) > If the teeth can rotate > even a little around their longitudinal axis, and something rotates them, > they can disengage from each other. If a few go, the nearby ones will > follow with only a little urging. > Yea, that's what I was figuring. > Replacing with a good quality zipper, properly installed, should fix it I'd > think. > > Or you could just get leather pants and quit feeding the poser idea. I'm > about to get a Harley I think, and I don't like that concept much. Hate to > have to drive a few sport bikers into the ground like tent pegs to make the > point. :^) > I dunno. Just like stereotypes, there's usually some reason for doing things. The problem with leather pants are my thighs. I have tree-trunk sized thighs. My chaps are 5x. The belt sits in the middle of my belly rather than around my waist. I had to cut off the bottom two inches of the chaps so they didn't drag. It's probably why the lower half of the left chap flaps. My shape/weight changes because I like going to the gym but work hours conflict at times (this week I'm working until 7pm and working half days all weekend to support the Columbia Accident Response folks). So without getting custom leathers I have to use what works. What I'd rather find would be flexible pants that have velcro straps around the thighs and calfs. Then when I have long-johns and two pair of pants on in the winter, the pants will be able to expand a little. As it is, the chaps just ride a little lower (or higher) and I roll up the cuffs a little. As far as posers, most of the time I don't care much what people think. I don't have a bunch of chrome on my bike but I have made it more comfortable. I've certainly ridden my bike more than most posers (I was looking at a 98 Softail with 1500 miles on it. It had all the chrome he could find though :-) And since I pretty much ride alone and don't drink (no bar hopping), I'm not associating with sport bikers so making them into tent pegs never comes up :-) > -- Mike B. Carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:11:03 2003 Subject: Re: Norfolk shots From: Carl Schelin To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Date: 28 Aug 2003 12:06:50 -0400 On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 11:47, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/28/2003 11:30:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > cschelin@XXXXXX writes: > > > I was keeping track of the lightning. > > BTW the greatest number of lightning strikes is on the leading and trailing > edge of the storm so just because the rain has not quite started yet does not > infer safety. > Actually I was just checking for distance. If the times between flash and crash shortened I was prepared to find an overpass. > > John. > PenguinBiker@XXXXXX > carl From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:17:49 2003 Subject: RE: GPS Question Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:17:42 -0400 From: "Witold Chrabaszcz - Network & Online Services" To: "Brad Faas" , "Tom De" , 2 weeks ago, I purchased a Garmin Streetpilot 3 unit from ecost.com. Since I have 2 left hands, I'm still researching the exact steps I need to take to safely tap my bikes battery to power the unit. Till then, the GPS is spending quality time in my backpack :) The unit is pretty bulky. On my R6, this is how I plan to eventually mount it. http://witold.org/photos/motorcycle/garmin/GPStop.jpg The reason why I didn't get the new unit, 2610, is because I decided that the touchscreen and the remote are drawbacks not worth the CF compatibitity and supposedly faster processor. Witold www.witold.org From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:22:00 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:21:56 -0400 (EDT) From: jdonovan@XXXXXX To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" cc: DCCycles Subject: Re: GPS question On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm > looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve > summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. My area > covers Balt. City, Balt. County , Anne Arundle County, and Howard > County. Can a GPS unit be used in that way? Absolutely. if you are looking for a single hand-held unit, then your choices are really 2 units (that are currently available New): Garmin Street Pilot 3, and GPS V. The are about $700, and $350 respectively. The SP3 has a much larger color screen, removable (proprietary memory) For your use in the service job, the GPS V would work very well. I looked into the V when I bought a GPS and decided that the built in 19MB of memory was not enough for the areas I usually travel, and hence I needed more memory than the 5 could deliver. At the time the SP3, was over $1000 and was way more than I wanted to spend. I got the GPS176 which doesn't autoroute, but does have a very large screen, and is available in a color version. I'm happy with my GPS, I'd like auto route, and when the 2610 comes out I'll be giving that a VERY serious look... but I'd have to be able to work it with gloves on. The 176 I have I can do basic functions zoom in/out, change map pages with gloves on, but anything more 'advanced' requires a stop, and glove removal, and IMO more attention than I should give it while riding. I'd suggest you try out some of the tools before you buy if possible. As an aside if you have/use a laptop you can get a dedicated GPS and software for the PC for < $150 that will do what you want... and have a screen that is much larger than any hand held, and tons more processing power =) -jd From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:22:22 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:22:45 -0400 To: dan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Leathers Repair At 11:57 AM 8/28/03 -0400, dan wrote: >I guess I look out of place when on the Hog, >but who cares. Maybe I should get a skull and cross bones on the back of >my JR Balistic jacket? A do-rag over the top of my full-face? Everyone should have a personal style. The idea is to do your own thing, right? :^) -- Mike "I like the megawatt laser on the front fender idea myself...for people who won't dim..." Bartman -- **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 12:23:19 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:23:38 -0400 To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Mike Bartman Subject: Re: Norfolk shots At 11:52 AM 8/28/03 EDT, PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: >I keep an umbrella in the bike. What does that say about me? You don't trust your brakes much? :^) -- Mike B. **************************************************************************** * Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * * Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * * omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * *--------------------------------------------------------------------------* * "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * **************************************************************************** From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 14:33:49 2003 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:33:44 -0400 From: "Chris Norloff" Reply-To: To: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DCCycles Subject: Re: GPS question Sounds like what you really need is good routing software, and a GPS unit to load the route into. I don't know much about this, but it's a common discussion item on some lists. Search the IBMWR archives for routing software http://www.ibmwr.org/ I've heard ExpertGPS software recommended http://www.expertgps.com/ best, Chris Norloff ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Mike Bartman Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:59:23 -0400 >At 12:43 AM 8/28/03 -0400, Steven C. Di Pietro wrote: > >> I don't know if a GPS would be able to help me or not. What I'm >>looking for, is a way to input the addresses where I have to serve >>summonses, and use the GPS to guide me from place to place. My area >>covers Balt. City, Balt. County , Anne Arundle County, and Howard >>County. Can a GPS unit be used in that way? > >The average GPS? Nope. They can tell you where you are, and even draw >street maps for you, but they work in lat/long, not street address terms. >The size of the area isn't a problem though...my Meridian unit has enough >memory to hold all of Maryland, Pennsylvania north to Pilladelphia, >Virginia south to Richmond and a chunk of West Virginia out past Paw Paw, >all at once. It's also waterproof. > >There's one GPS that *might* do what you want...it's called a "Street >Pilot". It's not cheap (about $600), but it has a color screen and does >things like giving turn-by turn directions to a given destination as you >travel. It's intended for use in cars, so I don't know if its waterproof >or not, and it's larger than the average unit...about the size of a small >paperback book. Brookstone used to carry them, but I don't know if they >still do. A Google search should turn up more info and vendors. > >-- Mike B. > >**************************************************************************** >* Mike Bartman * Puzzles Pondered Obfuscation Obliterated * >* Omniphiles International * Confusion Canceled Opinions Offered * >* omni@XXXXXX * Options Outlined Smiles Stimulated * >*--------------------------------------------------------------------------* >* "We do it all! No job too small! No price too high! * >**************************************************************************** > > From dc-cycles-request@XXXXXX Thu Aug 28 16:29:08 2003 From: "Silver, Arthur (NIH/NIGMS)" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: regarding June 25 motorcycle fatality in Potomac Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:28:49 -0400 Anyone going up to Starbucks in Rockville tonight. I'll be there around 8:30. 00 yellow GSXR If it don't rain but the radar looks good. -----Original Message----- From: lisagoddard@XXXXXX [mailto:lisagoddard@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:34 PM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: regarding June 25 motorcycle fatality in Potomac http://www.gazette.net/200335/potomac/news/174747-1.html Lisa '95 VFR --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From d