From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 07:55:51 2001 From: "Wood, Sally" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:54:30 -0400 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: |> "A friend of mine had an accident...He said he believed (he was going) no more than 70. I asked him the speed limit, he said might have been 35 or 40....he said he received like 4 tickets......He thinks the cop just wanted to give it to the 'out of town' bikers....So what do you guys think regarding this? truck at fault?" You've GOT to be kidding! "Get a lawyer" is good advice but what he really needs is some religion 'cause he's one lucky SoB for even surviving. I can see how this would happen but for him to be incredulous about it is absurd. Oh, and 'not too long ago' he dumped the bike complete w/ girlfriend on the back? Fuck that. You can defend him all you like but he's nothing but a menace. A lucky to be alive menace. Even worse than a cage! Has he, by any chance, considered taking the Motorcycle Safety Course? From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 08:36:55 2001 From: "Jay Block" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Legal help Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:36:48 -0400 Hey guys (and gals), screwing up is one thing. Getting slammed by a judge is another. Having a lawyer represent you in court, even if you are guilty of the underlying charge, will help when it comes to dispostion. "Let the punishment fit the crime." Have him contact a local lawyer. Jay _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 08:42:29 2001 From: "Todd Peer" To: "AA DC Cycles" Subject: Re: bike night Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:39:47 -0400 Hmmmm. This bike night sounds like something I wouldn't have missed...if it weren't for the fact that I was riding with three others out of PA for close to 200 miles of solid rain....Damnit! I hate rain and riding. Bad combination. Do it again Lisa. And this time make it clear that there won't be any rain. ;-) Todd (Springfield, VA) -----------original ------------------------- Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:45:39 -0500 From: "George Cole" Thanks Lisa, For putting a Bethesda bike night together. (even though I drove the cage in) Yes I am a rain wimp. Since I live only a few miles away, I vote to have all the Bike Nights at Uncle Jed's. Maybe at least a informal one occasionally during the week. George Cole 2K VFR >>> "lisa@XXXXXX" 07/31/01 08:37AM >>> Well, the rain really put a damper on bike night at Uncle Jed's in Bethesda this past Sunday night. We had a total of three bikes parked out front: my bike, Jay's ZX-11 and Niv's BMW. A few others showed up in cages, there's tons of free cage parking in the public garage across the street. We pulled together a few tables for that intimate bike night feeling, I've never sat with the entire bike night crowd at one table! I think George Cole might have some pics to share. Thanks to those who showed. Also, thanks to Rob K. for his pre-event publicity! Lisa Goddard '95 VFR From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 08:45:33 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 05:45:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Fwd: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --0-899341518-996669931=:42824 Wow... People on this site are merciless... first and foremost...YES I took the safety course... Second.. when I took the spill with my girlfriend on the back.. One it was raining, two I didn't grab a "handful" of brakes or shit on myself like some of you implied.. the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and simple... You guys act like I was out doing stunts or some shit asking for trouble or something and you guys basically brand me a fucking menace... And we are supposed to stand by each other??? A fucking truck jumps out in front of me, and when I try to go in the other lane to go by him, cause I didn't have enough room to stop and he proceeds to get in the middle of the street leaving me no place to go and I'm a menace??? To the guy who gave advice saying that no matter if I was going 10 MPH or 20+ over the limit, if the other driver doesn't give the right away is wrong, thank you for advising me to get a lawyer...I am.. To everyone else with their smart ass comments or who judged the way I ride without ever seeing, meeting or talking to me...you can kiss my ass...ask danny I don't stunt, run from cops nor do I be lane splitting like some of these crazy fools out here...but I'm a menace...what the fuck ever.... Robert... Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-899341518-996669931=:42824 X-Apparently-To: im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX via web14305.mail.yahoo.com; 01 Aug 2001 04:56:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 40 From: "Wood, Sally" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:54:30 -0400 Content-Length: 884 daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: |> "A friend of mine had an accident...He said he believed (he was going) no more than 70. I asked him the speed limit, he said might have been 35 or 40....he said he received like 4 tickets......He thinks the cop just wanted to give it to the 'out of town' bikers....So what do you guys think regarding this? truck at fault?" You've GOT to be kidding! "Get a lawyer" is good advice but what he really needs is some religion 'cause he's one lucky SoB for even surviving. I can see how this would happen but for him to be incredulous about it is absurd. Oh, and 'not too long ago' he dumped the bike complete w/ girlfriend on the back? Fuck that. You can defend him all you like but he's nothing but a menace. A lucky to be alive menace. Even worse than a cage! Has he, by any chance, considered taking the Motorcycle Safety Course? --0-899341518-996669931=:42824-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:13:42 2001 From: "Dave" To: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:17:50 -0400 > the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and > simple... Front wheels dont just tuck. Plain and simple. When you adopt that attitude you fail to learn from your mistakes. A good rider will look at what he or she could have done different and not blame it on some mystery force. >but I'm a > menace...what the fuck ever.... According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. Dave From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:22:11 2001 From: "Jon Strang" To: Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:21:30 -0400 X-SLUIDL: 865E4DEF-85E411D5-8E150060-08C770E5 > >but I'm a > > menace...what the fuck ever.... > > According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the > speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. > > Dave A quick show of hands: Who on this list has never been a menace by this definition? --jon A Public Menace. '01 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (black and nekkid) From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:24:18 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:27:28 -0400 From: Paul Wilson To: Dave CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... I'm not going to cast aspersions on the rider who started this whole thread, but Dave makes a good point. Everyone makes mistakes, but the thinking person is the one who learns from those mistakes. I don't hold crashing against anyone, it happens, but it does worry me when the person has no earthly idea why he or she crashed or blames mysterious problems with the bike or "invisible sand." Again, not saying it's the case here, but I've heard it before. Paul in DC Dave wrote: > > > the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and > > simple... > > Front wheels dont just tuck. Plain and simple. When you adopt that attitude > you fail to learn from your mistakes. A good rider will look at what he or > she could have done different and not blame it on some mystery force. > From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:30:29 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:30:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --0-1466744768-996672627=:32515 Bullshit about front wheels not tucking...You read any racers interview after a race where they crashed and you read it all the time... Shows how much you know... Yes I wasn't racing and no I wasn't on the track but that remark about front ends not tucking is a bunch of crap... Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-1466744768-996672627=:32515 X-Apparently-To: im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX via web14305.mail.yahoo.com; 01 Aug 2001 06:14:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 40 From: "Dave" To: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:17:50 -0400 Content-Length: 474 > the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and > simple... Front wheels dont just tuck. Plain and simple. When you adopt that attitude you fail to learn from your mistakes. A good rider will look at what he or she could have done different and not blame it on some mystery force. >but I'm a > menace...what the fuck ever.... According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. Dave --0-1466744768-996672627=:32515-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:37:37 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:38:24 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Jon Strang Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Jon, I'm sure most everyone on this list is guilty of such hooligan behavior. I know I am. But we also need to consider the situation. According to the original post by Danny (if I remember correctly ... I don't have it in front of me), he was doing ~35mph over in a 35mph zone. That's double the speed limit. In an area where there are apparently driveways and/or intersections (the truck pulled out onto the road). Only a 2-lane road, maybe with a single or double yellow line. I would submit that this is less than prudent riding. Certainly a whole lot different than 35mph over with a posted limit of 65mph on a multiple-lane road. Or even different than riding fast on "backroads" where there's limited traffic and places for people to pull onto the road. Have I done what this particular rider has done (in terms of riding "fast" on a road with a relatively "low" speed limit in an area where something like what happened to him happened? Yup! Early on in my riding learning curve. And I had my "almost accident" when a lady backed her car out of her driveway onto the road just as I was rounding a curve at a pretty good clip. Also learned my lesson. There's a time and place for certain types of riding. And if you choose to "push it" on roads where the risk is higher, then bad stuff can happen. Is this guy a "menace"? Let's just say that Danny's account of what happened was less than flattering of the rider's skills and judgement. Chuck Jon Strang wrote: > > > >but I'm a > > > menace...what the fuck ever.... > > > > According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the > > speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. > > > > Dave > > A quick show of hands: Who on this list has never been a menace by this > definition? -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:40:52 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 06:40:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX --0-395753187-996673250=:24250 I'm not blaming invisible sand or mysterious forces.. All I'm saying is that I don't know what caused my front wheel to just slide out...I didn't lock up my front brake and I have already taken responsibility for the accident..I know it was my fault cause I was the one operating the bike... I have no one to blame but myself.. but for people saying I'm a menace or for saying I'm at fault cause some fool pulls out in front of me is ridiculous. And as for me speeding.. or going so fast...how many times have you been on the beltway and looked down and noticed you were doing over 80??? And when I initially asked danny to post a message asking for advice I told him the fastest I might have been doing WAS 70....I didn't know for a fact how fast I was going cause I didn't look at my speedomotor before dumbass pulled out..I told him I was chilling and that the fastest I could've been going was 70... which I don't think I was going THAT fast cause I looked at the pictures from the accident...There is no damage to the truck where I hit it at...just some scratches... Robert Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ --0-395753187-996673250=:24250 X-Apparently-To: im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX via web14306.mail.yahoo.com; 01 Aug 2001 06:24:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Track: 1: 40 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:27:28 -0400 From: Paul Wilson To: Dave CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Content-Length: 786 I'm not going to cast aspersions on the rider who started this whole thread, but Dave makes a good point. Everyone makes mistakes, but the thinking person is the one who learns from those mistakes. I don't hold crashing against anyone, it happens, but it does worry me when the person has no earthly idea why he or she crashed or blames mysterious problems with the bike or "invisible sand." Again, not saying it's the case here, but I've heard it before. Paul in DC Dave wrote: > > > the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and > > simple... > > Front wheels dont just tuck. Plain and simple. When you adopt that attitude > you fail to learn from your mistakes. A good rider will look at what he or > she could have done different and not blame it on some mystery force. > --0-395753187-996673250=:24250-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:41:24 2001 From: Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:39:41 -0400 Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... To: jmstrang@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 08/01/2001 09:39:47 AM OK ... ME. I can honestly say that I have NEVER gone 30-35 over in a 35 mph zone. Now in a 55 or 65 mph zone, that's another story ... :-) --chris Jon Strang on 08/01/2001 09:21:30 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX cc: Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... > >but I'm a > > menace...what the fuck ever.... > > According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the > speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. > > Dave A quick show of hands: Who on this list has never been a menace by this definition? --jon A Public Menace. '01 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (black and nekkid) ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:42:05 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:43:02 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Robert Prather Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Front wheels tuck under very hard cornering forces. I know because I've done it on the track. They don't "just tuck", particularly if the bike is relatively straight up-and-down. You have to have some pretty serious lean angle and force pushing the front wheel to get it to tuck. Given the original description of the event (which may or may not be accurate), I have a hard time imagining that the rider in question had the bike in a position to tuck the front (i.e., extreme lean angle approaching dragging knee while trying to avoid the truck that pulled out in front of him). Anything is possible, but it's difficult for me to figure out how the front wheel would tuck in this particular scenario. Robert Prather wrote: > > Bullshit about front wheels not tucking...You read any > racers interview after a race where they crashed and > you read it all the time... Shows how much you know... > Yes I wasn't racing and no I wasn't on the track but > that remark about front ends not tucking is a bunch of > crap... -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:44:56 2001 From: Gaske David G DLVA To: "Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:44:40 -0400 Give us all a break. Tires tuck in racing because they were pushing the limit. They don't tuck because they were riding along and, oh my, my front tire "tucked". Since it obviously wasn't your fault that it tucked, then whey did it? Tire pressure? Road Debris? Brakes grabbing to hard Please enlighten us all as to what super natural forces caused your tire to tuck. I'll be first in line to have a ouji board session to ride your bike and all bikes of their paranormal entities!!! David '00 Sprint RS (yellow) Fredericksburg, Va. USA -----Original Message----- From: Robert Prather [mailto:im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 9:30 AM To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Bullshit about front wheels not tucking...You read any racers interview after a race where they crashed and you read it all the time... Shows how much you know... Yes I wasn't racing and no I wasn't on the track but that remark about front ends not tucking is a bunch of crap... Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 09:57:58 2001 From: "Jon Strang" To: , Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:57:26 -0400 X-SLUIDL: 865E4E32-85E411D5-8E150060-08C770E5 Chuck, I agree with everything you said; based on the "front wheels not tucking..shows you what you know" comment he just made, I think his the extent of his skill and judgment, and more importantly, the ability to take responsibility for his actions and to learn from them, have been made apparent. I did object to the summary crucifixion of the guy before we even had a first hand account. Danny's apparently rapidly-typed post didn't put the guy in the best light, so I figured he deserved a chance to redeem or condemn himself. He's had/has the chance. --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Pena [mailto:cvkgpena@XXXXXX] > > Jon, > > I'm sure most everyone on this list is guilty of such hooligan > behavior. I know I am. But we also need to consider the situation. > According to the original post by Danny (if I remember correctly ... I > don't have it in front of me), he was doing ~35mph over in a 35mph > zone. That's double the speed limit. In an area where there are > apparently driveways and/or intersections (the truck pulled out onto the > road). Only a 2-lane road, maybe with a single or double yellow line. > I would submit that this is less than prudent riding. Certainly a whole > lot different than 35mph over with a posted limit of 65mph on a > multiple-lane road. Or even different than riding fast on "backroads" > where there's limited traffic and places for people to pull onto the > road. Have I done what this particular rider has done (in terms of > riding "fast" on a road with a relatively "low" speed limit in an area > where something like what happened to him happened? Yup! Early on in > my riding learning curve. And I had my "almost accident" when a lady > backed her car out of her driveway onto the road just as I was rounding > a curve at a pretty good clip. Also learned my lesson. There's a time > and place for certain types of riding. And if you choose to "push it" > on roads where the risk is higher, then bad stuff can happen. Is this > guy a "menace"? Let's just say that Danny's account of what happened > was less than flattering of the rider's skills and judgement. > > Chuck > > Jon Strang wrote: > > > > > >but I'm a > > > > menace...what the fuck ever.... > > > > > > According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 > mph over the > > > speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. > > > > > > Dave > > > > A quick show of hands: Who on this list has never been a menace by this > > definition? > > -- > "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." > -- Buckaroo Banzai > visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:02:10 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:03:08 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Jon Strang Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Let the stoning begin! %^) Jon Strang wrote : > > I did object to the summary crucifixion of the guy before we even had a > first hand account. -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:06:09 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:02:13 -0400 From: Nichols.Nick@XXXXXX Subject: Re: [SOCMd] [Fwd: [SOC-USA] Suzuki Owners Club - USA "Rally in the Valley" details (inNY State)] To: SOCMd@XXXXXX Cc: balt-cycles@XXXXXX, cwbalt@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, katanalist@XXXXXX, SOCMd@XXXXXX X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on EPAHUB11/USEPA/US(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 08/01/2001 10:02:59 AM --0__=85256A9B0048DDE78f9e8a93df938690918c85256A9B0048DDE7 Warning I bought the 2001 SUZ Volusia from Brooklyn Cycle World and dropped it in my driveway only a few months later...bummer! I ordered the parts a long time ago from Rosedale CW (they are supposed to be faster with everything especially service). They messed that up and I think it was at least a week later that they put the order in to the factory. I put my deposit down on the parts way back in June, made my insurance claim and waited for all to come together to get my bike looking great again. Well... first thing CW service- Steve gives the insurance appraiser a bunch of shit for looking up part numbers and labor estimates for the repairs and even wanted to charge the company for the information they gave me for free! The problem was that Suz did not even give its dealers all the info they needed to even do service on the bikes let alone parts numbers...this should have all been in place BEFORE a single bike was sold ! We got that worked out by talking to Eric the parts manger instead. Here it is August 1st and my parts are still not in. Eric says Suzuki says they are on back order which is a way of saying that Suzuki America/Japan does not give a shit about making sure that spare parts are available to its loyal customers before they sell you a bike. If they are making the bikes they have the parts!!!! Ive got a turn signal falling off, a badly dented tank and bent handle bars and no one at CW nor Suz seems to care at all about making things right by Christmas. Eric says I may get my turn signal in sooner than the tank and other parts. Great.... Im gonna have to make numerous trips and be without my bike to get everything fixed. Is it unreasonable to think Suzuki should have this new bike thing down before they sell one bike?! I dont think so....you drop a Harley and you can find parts in freaking China the same day. This whole experience has tainted my view of what I thought were top notch companies...unfortunalty the system and service behind the product is pathetic ! I had the VX 800 before this and I couldnt even find the right tire size for it ! Hell, Ron and others in this Club couldn't even get Suz to officially recognize and support our Club! I tried to contact Suz out in California and all I get for my long distance calls is HOLD PLEASE! for 20 F *&^% ing minutes. Any suggestions????? Still waiting to cruise in style. Nick "Steven C. Di Pietro" To: Balt-Cycles-l , "D.C.Cycles-L" y.jhu.edu> , "katanalist@XXXXXX" 07/30/01 09:07 , Lynn Rhiel AM , "SOCMd@XXXXXX" Please respond to SOCMd cc: Subject: [SOCMd] [Fwd: [SOC-USA] Suzuki Owners Club - USA "Rally in the Valley" details (inNY State)] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [SOC-USA] Suzuki Owners Club - USA "Rally in the Valley" details (inNY State) Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 20:11:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Lemans750@XXXXXX Here's the info I promised on the upcoming event. If you are not interested in attending the SOC-USA Fall Rally, please read no further (and sorry for any inconvenience). It is open to all Suzuki owners, and if you are not already a member of SOC-USA, we will make membership registration available to attendees AT THE EVENT (if you're reading this, you have e-mail, so it's only a Dollar per year for a basic membership). You must, however be a member (or join upon arrival) to attend. Ok, that's "the pitch" (and the only "catch"). Here's the poop: Friday,. September 7 through Sunday the 9th we will be gathering for a weekend of riding (and race watching!). The planned highlight of the weekend will be the AMA Flattrack Races at Vernon Downs [ http://www.vernondowns.com/ ] on Saturday night. We plan on arrivals beginning around Noon on Friday. The Campground is TA-GA-SOKE Campgrounds in Sylvan Beach, NY (northeast of Syracuse). Kenn Gibbs (our National Cruiser and Touring Coordinator) and I rode up today to check the place out, and it's really quite nice! It's minutes from Turning Stone Casino, about 30 minutes from the race track (this is important, because the races last until around 11 - Midnight, and who wants a two hour drive back to the campsite at that hour?). The facility has a great selection of amenities, so feel free to plan on bringing your family too! Even if they won't be riding with us, there's lots to do in and around the park. The campground has a beach, deli and store, an on site restaurant (very reasonably priced), a Rec Room (with pool table, video games), miniature golf, basketball, boat rentals (with access to Oneida Lake), laundromat, showers, and we were assured (by a female camper that Kenn asked) of clean restrooms with proper flush toilets and hot/ cold running water. Sunday morning we won't even have to leave to get breakfast, as there is a $4.95 Breakfast Buffet (with tons of high cholesterol items available!). Kenn and I each reserved two cabins for Friday and Saturday, and there are a few left adjacent to our sites. There are also tent site available in the same area. The cabin rates are based on two adults and three children. The cabins look only a year or so old. They will comfortably sleep four adults (but "extra adults" are $5.00 per night). They also have lights and electric. In other words, it works out to only $25.00 for the weekend for 4 adults sharing a cabin! Is this a deal or what? The Campground website has a site map on it. [ http://www.ta-ga-soke.com ] We currently have C71 through C74 reserved, and I urge anyone planning on attending to reserve your tent site or cabin now, as they will NOT last long. I would not try to contact them by email, I would instead call to reserve, as they don't seem to grasp the full "e-commerce" concept yet - LOL. The toll free number is: 1.800.831.1744. You may reserve a site with a credit card (and may cancel without penalty with no less than 24 hours notice, prior to the arrival date). If you'd like more information, check out the SOC-USA "Events" page on the website [ http://www.soc-usa.org ], or contact either me or Kenn Gibbs (there are email links to us from the site). If you don't mind sending an "RSVP" to either Kenn or Myself (once you've reserved), it'd be great so we can keep a "running head count" to better plan the events. We might also be able to qualify for group discount rates on the race tickets if we can get enough folks involved! Hope to see you there! Bill Hawley SOC-USA NY State Coordinator 1975 GT750 Water Buffalo Visit the Suzuki Owners Club - USA website: http://www.soc-usa.org/ NY State area members subscribe to the NY area e-mailing list by sending an email to: SOCNY-subscribe@XXXXXX Yahoo! 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Yuvuxmjivu/W/q7H2q/6vuyijuQBOCtK1q9JXqnR4ajXEuoCW+zTjmnU9mifOjDenu/LJrBLaq/Y sqUH426/yuqMPh1mFmnnlrDP9imY9uur06FrCm/woqpm9VquxJrwnrruzAZw0YKpS8Zww+5nxrYw roKmulbwkE6vBeMwo85tkf7wSnbwUBqAAigoAhywTU6xtM6kFccuT3IxYaKmjsKkFWtxWkYxGKNx GqvxGatxG7uxXbLxG8vxHINlHNPxHePxVIrnnvBxH/vxHwNyIAvyIBNyIRvyISNyIivyIjNyIzvy I0OyIidAHlNyJVvyJWNyJmvyJnOyUQYBADs= --0__=85256A9B0048DDE78f9e8a93df938690918c85256A9B0048DDE7 R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAP///wAAACH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw== --0__=85256A9B0048DDE78f9e8a93df938690918c85256A9B0048DDE7-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:10:30 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:10:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I did take responsibility for my accident... I never said it wasn't my fault... I'm just saying I don't know what caused my front wheel to tuck.. and thats what happened...the light turned red, I went to brake, NOT HARD mind you...and the front wheel went...next thing I know I'm on the ground..but I knew it was my fault..always did.. like I said in my previous post, I was the one operating the bike, I have no one else to blame. I'm just upset that people calling me a menace cause some guy jumped out in front of me.. Now had I been in a car and this same guy jumped out in front of me, would I still be considered a menace??? Robert --- Jon Strang wrote: > Chuck, > > I agree with everything you said; based on the > "front wheels not > tucking..shows you what you know" comment he just > made, I think his the > extent of his skill and judgment, and more > importantly, the ability to take > responsibility for his actions and to learn from > them, have been made > apparent. > > I did object to the summary crucifixion of the guy > before we even had a > first hand account. Danny's apparently > rapidly-typed post didn't put the > guy in the best light, so I figured he deserved a > chance to redeem or > condemn himself. > > He's had/has the chance. > > --jon > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Chuck Pena [mailto:cvkgpena@XXXXXX] > > > > Jon, > > > > I'm sure most everyone on this list is guilty of > such hooligan > > behavior. I know I am. But we also need to > consider the situation. > > According to the original post by Danny (if I > remember correctly ... I > > don't have it in front of me), he was doing ~35mph > over in a 35mph > > zone. That's double the speed limit. In an area > where there are > > apparently driveways and/or intersections (the > truck pulled out onto the > > road). Only a 2-lane road, maybe with a single or > double yellow line. > > I would submit that this is less than prudent > riding. Certainly a whole > > lot different than 35mph over with a posted limit > of 65mph on a > > multiple-lane road. Or even different than riding > fast on "backroads" > > where there's limited traffic and places for > people to pull onto the > > road. Have I done what this particular rider has > done (in terms of > > riding "fast" on a road with a relatively "low" > speed limit in an area > > where something like what happened to him > happened? Yup! Early on in > > my riding learning curve. And I had my "almost > accident" when a lady > > backed her car out of her driveway onto the road > just as I was rounding > > a curve at a pretty good clip. Also learned my > lesson. There's a time > > and place for certain types of riding. And if you > choose to "push it" > > on roads where the risk is higher, then bad stuff > can happen. Is this > > guy a "menace"? Let's just say that Danny's > account of what happened > > was less than flattering of the rider's skills and > judgement. > > > > Chuck > > > > Jon Strang wrote: > > > > > > > >but I'm a > > > > > menace...what the fuck ever.... > > > > > > > > According to Danny you told him that you were > going 30 to 35 > > mph over the > > > > speed limit. On public roads I would consider > that a menace. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > A quick show of hands: Who on this list has > never been a menace by this > > > definition? > > > > -- > > "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is > exactly what it is." > > -- Buckaroo Banzai > > visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:12:02 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:11:50 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Troutman Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... At 09:40 AM 8/1/01, you wrote: >...And when I initially asked danny to post a message >asking for advice I told him the fastest I might have >been doing WAS 70....I didn't know for a fact how fast >I was going cause I didn't look at my speedomotor >before dumbass pulled out..I told him I was chilling >and that the fastest I could've been going was 70... >which I don't think I was going THAT fast cause I >looked at the pictures from the accident... Not knowing anything about the situation besides what I have read - I have to ask ... if you had been going 35 - do you think the truck would have seen you? When people pull out on to the road marked 35, they aren't looking for someone going 65 or 70. Sounds like the cops took this into account when they didn't ticket the truck for failure to yield. And yes - doubling the speed limit does make you a menace. Especially in a 35 zone. Doing so in a 55 zone is quite a bit different (i.e. the Beltway). I have been a menace at times - especially on roads like Skyline that are marked well below their comfortable speeds ... but I realize that by doing so, some tourist could be pulling out of an overlook around any corner. As for not knowing your exact speed - you should always have a pretty good idea how fast you are going. We went through a long thread here on knowing your speed through listening to your RPMs. It isn't very hard to learn. Picking apart accident situations is a popular sport on the list. It helps us learn what not to do - and remind us that occasionally there is a stalled tractor in the road around the next corner. Good luck with your case. Try and go in with a positive attitude. Try to come out with your license. ___________________________________________ Mike Troutman http://www.troutman.org/vfr '97 Honda VFR 750 Member : AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:18:55 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:18:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: Troutman , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Thanks..I appreciate the kinds advice and support. But I honestly don't think I was going 70... and to tell you the truth it all happened so fast I couldn't tell you how fast I was going by listening to my RPM's we were coming around a blind bend so I know we were going that fast...Danny asked me how fast I thought I was going..I told him..I was in chill mode and the fastest I COULDA been doing was 70...That was like maximum speed in the scenario... Like I said, if I showed you the pictures from the accident, the truck's back door to the pick-ups bed, has no damages, just some scratches... Robert --- Troutman wrote: > At 09:40 AM 8/1/01, you wrote: > >...And when I initially asked danny to post a > message > >asking for advice I told him the fastest I might > have > >been doing WAS 70....I didn't know for a fact how > fast > >I was going cause I didn't look at my speedomotor > >before dumbass pulled out..I told him I was > chilling > >and that the fastest I could've been going was > 70... > >which I don't think I was going THAT fast cause I > >looked at the pictures from the accident... > > Not knowing anything about the situation besides > what I have read - I have > to ask ... if you had been going 35 - do you think > the truck would have > seen you? When people pull out on to the road > marked 35, they aren't > looking for someone going 65 or 70. Sounds like the > cops took this into > account when they didn't ticket the truck for > failure to yield. And yes - > doubling the speed limit does make you a menace. > Especially in a 35 > zone. Doing so in a 55 zone is quite a bit > different (i.e. the > Beltway). I have been a menace at times - > especially on roads like Skyline > that are marked well below their comfortable speeds > ... but I realize that > by doing so, some tourist could be pulling out of an > overlook around any > corner. > > As for not knowing your exact speed - you should > always have a pretty good > idea how fast you are going. We went through a long > thread here on knowing > your speed through listening to your RPMs. It isn't > very hard to learn. > > Picking apart accident situations is a popular sport > on the list. It helps > us learn what not to do - and remind us that > occasionally there is a > stalled tractor in the road around the next corner. > > Good luck with your case. Try and go in with a > positive attitude. Try to > come out with your license. > > > > ___________________________________________ > Mike Troutman > http://www.troutman.org/vfr > > '97 Honda VFR 750 > Member : AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:21:56 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:22:53 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... OK. Let's try to be a little constructive here. You braked (not hard) while the bike was still pretty much straight up-and-down and the front wheel went out from under you. Were there any slick spots on the road? What kind of condition is the front tire in? The front suspension? Were you attempting to swerve as braked? Oh yeah, what kind of bike are we talking about here? Do you have "grabby" brakes? Were you countersteering or actually trying to turn the handlebars? Honestly, you/we will probably never really know what happened and what caused it. I'm sure it all happened in the blink of an eye (been there, done that). If no one else was riding with you, you don't have a "witness" who could at least provide their interpretation/observation of what they say happen and what you did. And I am guessing you don't have on-board telemetry or those neat on-board cameras found on WSB and GP bikes. %^) But unless there was something on the road that caused your front wheel to lose traction, the odds are overwhelming that what caused your front wheel to go out from under you was due to some sort of rider error. This is not the same thing as saying you are a menace (BTW, just get over it; getting all defensive about it in this forum is not going to help you make a better case for your unfortunate incident and certainly won't help you learn anything from what happened). Just that you made some sort of mistake (as all of us have done at one time or another while riding). You need to reconstruct everything as clearly as possible to try and figure out what the mistake was and why you did it. Robert Prather wrote : > > I did take responsibility for my accident... I never > said it wasn't my fault... I'm just saying I don't > know what caused my front wheel to tuck.. and thats > what happened...the light turned red, I went to brake, > NOT HARD mind you...and the front wheel went...next > thing I know I'm on the ground..but I knew it was my -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:27:10 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:27:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Brian Roach To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... This is a fun thread :) About front end tucking: Yep, we tuck the front on the race track all the time. I did it 2 weeks ago at Summit Point in T5, and at Road A last year in T10a. It never "just tucks". It does so because the amount of lateral force being applied to the front tire exceeds the amout of grip available. This is either because: A) Trailing the brakes (or still using the brakes) while initiating the turn. If you're using the brakes, weight is transferred to the front suspension. Simple matter of weight + lateral force overcoming available traction. The last two times I tucked the front... this is why it happened. B) Too agressive of turn-in. At the moment of turn in, when the bike snaps over, adhesion loses to weight and momentum. Have never had this happen but I've seen the factory guys do it on TV. C) Carrying more cornerspeed than the front tire can handle. See above. Never been able to corner faster than my bike can. D) Dragging the engine cases causes front end to be levered of the ground. Ditto... never happened to me, and usually this is only a problem on older bikes with less ground clearance than new ones have. E) Surface condition... oil, sand, etc. Avoiding these is key. As for speeding... 70mph in a 35 zone is the same as 110mph in a 55 percentage wise. Of course, in a 35 there's usually driveways, blind corners, people walking their dogs, etc, etc. Not really a great idea to be going that fast. Without seeing the situation myself I'm not going to pass any judgement on anyone, but if you were in the neighborhood of 20+ over the limit approaching someone's driveway... I'd have a hard time finding fault in the other driver... that's a pretty bad situation. - Roach From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:28:33 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:28:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: the_penas@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Robert Prather um I'll answer the questions you asked...as far as I know there weren't any oil slicks, my front tire was in good condition at the time, the front suspension also was fine, I wasn't attempting to swerve, no. I have a R6 and my brakes don't feel grabby...I wasn't countersteering or turning the handle bars I was just trying to stop the bike. as for getting defensive I apologize...its just the first time I've had people attack me or say the accident with the truck driver was my fault... everyone else I spoke to except the cop and the truck driver's insurance adjuster says it was his fault.... The cop gave me tickets without even getting a statement from me OR my side of the story... Does that sound legit??? --- Chuck Pena wrote: > OK. Let's try to be a little constructive here. > You braked (not hard) > while the bike was still pretty much straight > up-and-down and the front > wheel went out from under you. Were there any slick > spots on the road? > What kind of condition is the front tire in? The > front suspension? > Were you attempting to swerve as braked? Oh yeah, > what kind of bike are > we talking about here? Do you have "grabby" brakes? > Were you > countersteering or actually trying to turn the > handlebars? Honestly, > you/we will probably never really know what happened > and what caused > it. I'm sure it all happened in the blink of an eye > (been there, done > that). If no one else was riding with you, you > don't have a "witness" > who could at least provide their > interpretation/observation of what they > say happen and what you did. And I am guessing you > don't have on-board > telemetry or those neat on-board cameras found on > WSB and GP bikes. %^) > But unless there was something on the road that > caused your front wheel > to lose traction, the odds are overwhelming that > what caused your front > wheel to go out from under you was due to some sort > of rider error. > This is not the same thing as saying you are a > menace (BTW, just get > over it; getting all defensive about it in this > forum is not going to > help you make a better case for your unfortunate > incident and certainly > won't help you learn anything from what happened). > Just that you made > some sort of mistake (as all of us have done at one > time or another > while riding). You need to reconstruct everything > as clearly as > possible to try and figure out what the mistake was > and why you did it. > > Robert Prather wrote : > > > > I did take responsibility for my accident... I > never > > said it wasn't my fault... I'm just saying I don't > > know what caused my front wheel to tuck.. and > thats > > what happened...the light turned red, I went to > brake, > > NOT HARD mind you...and the front wheel > went...next > > thing I know I'm on the ground..but I knew it was > my > > -- > "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is > exactly what it is." > -- Buckaroo Banzai > visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:32:21 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:31:28 -0400 To: Robert Prather From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Fwd: A friend of mine had an accident... Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >One it was raining, two I didn't grab a "handful" of >brakes or shit on myself like some of you implied.. >the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and >simple... Ok, it was raining and the front end "just tucked"....If you to lost the front end, it's YOUR FAULT. You didn't say there was any oil slicks or gravel or anything, so I'm going to assume it was just wet. Either your tires were bald, or you were riding to fast for conditions. Front ends don't "just tuck". When the front end gives out, that means you have exceeded the front tire's available traction. This is caused by cornering too aggressively for a given set of conditions, or getting off the gas and/or braking while cornering and (over)loading up the front end. This is plain motorcycle physics. If you fail to understand or recognize this, then you should not be on a motorcycle. (With or without a passenger!) Plain and simple. -- "For man, maximum excitement is the confrontation of death and the skillful defiance of it." -Ernest Becker (1924-1974) Sean Jordan Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing '93 Honda CBR1000F (Street) '90 Yamaha FZR400 (Race) WERA #779 / CCS #778 / MARRC member #3038 http://www.angelfire.com/mac/eternity23/jordanracing.html From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:32:43 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:32:55 -0400 From: Dale Horstman To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Robert Prather wrote: > > Bullshit about front wheels not tucking...You read any > racers interview after a race where they crashed and > you read it all the time... Shows how much you know... I think I'm beginning to see the problem here. Horkster -- Mandatory second line (CM tm) Dale Horstman - the.horkster@XXXXXX AWSHIDT #322 - 40 of 99 done. Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:36:20 2001 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:34:48 EDT Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX, the_penas@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --part1_26.190e7765.28996d88_boundary In a message dated 8/1/01 10:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX writes: > um I'll answer the questions you asked...as far as I > know there weren't any oil slicks, my front tire was > in good condition at the time, the front suspension > also was fine, I wasn't attempting to swerve, no. I > have a R6 and my brakes don't feel grabby...I wasn't > countersteering or turning the handle bars I was just > trying to stop the bike. as for getting defensive I > apologize...its just the first time I've had people > attack me or say the accident with the truck driver > was my fault... everyone else I spoke to except the > cop and the truck driver's insurance adjuster says it > was his fault.... The cop gave me tickets without even > getting a statement from me OR my side of the story... > Does that sound legit??? > No it doesn't. Obviously it's totally one sided. If it was wet out...then he won't have skid marks. If the officer doesn't have those...and there aren't any real corroborrating witnesses...then I'd say it was the truck driver's fault. (The guy's insurance adjuster is always going to say it's your fault...so you won't sue.) Get a lawyer, threaten to sue, get the tickets thrown out. Simple huh? :) --part1_26.190e7765.28996d88_boundary In a message dated 8/1/01 10:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX writes:


um I'll answer the questions you asked...as far as I
know there weren't any oil slicks, my front tire was
in good condition at the time, the front suspension
also was fine, I wasn't attempting to swerve, no.  I
have a R6 and my brakes don't feel grabby...I wasn't
countersteering or turning the handle bars I was just
trying to stop the bike. as for getting defensive I
apologize...its just the first time I've had people
attack me or say the accident with the truck driver
was my fault... everyone else I spoke to except the
cop and the truck driver's insurance adjuster says it
was his fault.... The cop gave me tickets without even
getting a statement from me OR my side of the story...
Does that sound legit???


No it doesn't.  Obviously it's totally one sided.  If it was wet out...then
he won't have skid marks.  If the officer doesn't have those...and there
aren't any real corroborrating witnesses...then I'd say it was the truck
driver's fault.  (The guy's insurance adjuster is always going to say it's
your fault...so you won't sue.)  Get a lawyer, threaten to sue, get the
tickets thrown out.  Simple huh?  :) --part1_26.190e7765.28996d88_boundary-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:37:35 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:37:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was on a country road, not in a suburb and we were not flying by people's driveways. I'm not that crazy nor disrespectful... --- Brian Roach wrote: > > This is a fun thread :) > > About front end tucking: > > Yep, we tuck the front on the race track all the > time. I did it 2 weeks > ago at Summit Point in T5, and at Road A last year > in T10a. It never "just > tucks". It does so because the amount of lateral > force being applied to > the front tire exceeds the amout of grip available. > This is either > because: > > A) Trailing the brakes (or still using the brakes) > while initiating the > turn. If you're using the brakes, weight is > transferred to the front > suspension. Simple matter of weight + lateral force > overcoming > available traction. The last two times I tucked the > front... this is why > it happened. > > B) Too agressive of turn-in. At the moment of turn > in, when the bike snaps > over, adhesion loses to weight and momentum. Have > never had this happen > but I've seen the factory guys do it on TV. > > C) Carrying more cornerspeed than the front tire can > handle. See > above. Never been able to corner faster than my bike > can. > > D) Dragging the engine cases causes front end to be > levered of the > ground. Ditto... never happened to me, and usually > this is only a problem > on older bikes with less ground clearance than new > ones have. > > E) Surface condition... oil, sand, etc. Avoiding > these is key. > > As for speeding... 70mph in a 35 zone is the same as > 110mph in a 55 > percentage wise. Of course, in a 35 there's usually > driveways, blind > corners, people walking their dogs, etc, etc. Not > really a great idea to > be going that fast. Without seeing the situation > myself I'm not going to > pass any judgement on anyone, but if you were in the > neighborhood of 20+ > over the limit approaching someone's driveway... I'd > have a hard time > finding fault in the other driver... that's a pretty > bad situation. > > - Roach > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:41:54 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:36:14 -0400 To: Robert Prather From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Fwd: A friend of mine had an accident... Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >Ok, it was raining and the front end "just tucked"....I Eh, sorry kids....I didn't read ahead and see that 5 people said the same thing I did. -sj- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:44:26 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:44:24 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Erick Singley Subject: Helmet visor moves Greetings all, I was going to write a brief history for people to snigger at the new guy, but I'll keep it short ;) Having passed my MSF course, and gotten the CB-750 K4 to stop leaking oil, major maintenance, etc, I've managed to ride it about 200 miles and have just now gotten onto a highway this week to really take it up to speed [ie 65 mph on rt 70] My only comment is "what an amazing amount of wind there is at that speed compared to 40mph on local streets!" I now see the reason behind some people's complaints that the basic course doesn't prepare people enough for highway usage at high speeds. It was a little intimidating, but it's just a matter of practice from here, I'm sure. My question - at that speed, if I do a head check [ie to change lanes] - my visor flips up [full face HJC-5]. I assume that the wind is coming up under my chin and flipping the it up. How do I stop this from happening? Get some sort of cover for the chin area? Adjust my head-turning motion as to not allow wind to get in? Is something 'wrong' with my helmet that is isn't capable of keeping shut? Before I start commuting daily, I'd like to not have to worry about ripping my head off when I look over my shoulder ;) Erick From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:47:11 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:48:05 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Rather than assign "fault", I think it's fair to say that your accident falls into the "avoidable" category. You've admitted you don't know how fast you were going. And if you don't know, you certainly could've been going "too fast". So there's one contributing factor right there. Had you been traveling at a "reasonable speed" for the conditions, (a) maybe the truck might have seen you and not pulled out (someone else has already pointed this out) and/or (b) you would've seen the truck in plenty of time and had plenty of room to safely brake. Not being a cop or a lawyer, I can't honestly tell you who is at "fault" in your particular situation. Certainly, it would be a little more clear-cut if we were talking about an intersection where you had a green light and he had a red or where you didn't have a stop sign and he did. But as I recall, he was pulling out of a driveway onto the road, right? For sure, he ought to be looking for and yielding to traffic on the road before pulling out. But if he's already pulled out onto the road and you come up on him because you might be travelling above the speed limit, well I don't what the story is in that situation. I suppose you could argue that he's expected to look for and yield to traffic that's travelling at the speed limit and that it's not his fault if someone is travelling in excess of the speed limit (especially if it's possible that you might have been going twice the limit). And probably the determining factor will be whether the truck was already out on the road and you just came up on it too fast and weren't paying attention (and maybe this is what the truck driver told the cops) or whether you were just riding along and the truck pulled out in front of you. Both scenarios could yield the same result. Cops can give tickets for whatever they want. Should they have gotten your side of the story? Probably. Would that have changed anything? Maybe. Maybe not ... especially if they have a "hard on" for motorcycles and if there has been a previous history of similar accidents on that road or in the general area. What matters now is that you have to be able to prove in a court of law that the accident wasn't your fault and that you couldn't have reasonably been expected to avoid it (i.e., you had right of way, were driving in a safe manner, and the truck pulled out so that there's no way you could've stopped or swerved in time). Get yourself a lawyer. Find witnesses. Go back to the accident scene and take pictures. Robert Prather wrote : > > apologize...its just the first time I've had people > attack me or say the accident with the truck driver > was my fault... everyone else I spoke to except the > cop and the truck driver's insurance adjuster says it > was his fault.... The cop gave me tickets without even > getting a statement from me OR my side of the story... > Does that sound legit??? -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:52:28 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:47:27 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Hey, guys....I think the "front-end-tucking-in-the-wet" story is a different one from when he hit the truck....I think the "wet" crash was the one with his girlfriend on the back. (!) -sj- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:55:36 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:55:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: SKeener2@XXXXXX, im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX, the_penas@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- SKeener2@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/01 10:30:44 AM Eastern Daylight > Time, > im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX writes: > > > > um I'll answer the questions you asked...as far as I > > know there weren't any oil slicks, my front tire was > > in good condition at the time, the front suspension > > also was fine, I wasn't attempting to swerve, no. I > > have a R6 and my brakes don't feel grabby...I wasn't > > countersteering or turning the handle bars I was just > > trying to stop the bike. as for getting defensive I > > apologize...its just the first time I've had people > > attack me or say the accident with the truck driver > > was my fault... everyone else I spoke to except the > > cop and the truck driver's insurance adjuster says it > > was his fault.... The cop gave me tickets without even > > getting a statement from me OR my side of the story... > > Does that sound legit??? > > > > No it doesn't. Obviously it's totally one sided. If it > was wet out...then he won't have skid marks. If the > officer doesn't have those...and there aren't any real > corroborrating witnesses...then I'd say it was the truck > driver's fault. (The guy's insurance adjuster is always > going to say it's your fault...so you won't sue.) Get a > lawyer, threaten to sue, get the tickets thrown out. > Simple huh? :) he better beat the tickets in court or his chances of winning the insurance battle are shot. get a frederick county attorney. come to court with witnesses, if any, who saw the truck fail to yield. dress appropriately and, if your lawyer allows you to open your mouth, speak like a respectable individual. has the rider in question made a statement to the police? the substance of any statement made will likely be determinative of the outcome. ===== tg For quality legal services at reasonable rates, check out http://www.murphygimer.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 10:56:45 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:57:43 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX CC: Erick Singley Subject: Re: Helmet visor moves Erick, Assuming your helmet visor is completely closed, it should NOT flip up when you turn your head ... regardless of what speed you're going. Now if your visor is slightly cracked open, this can definitely happen. %^) But it sounds like the ratcheting mechanism that locks the visor in place isn't working problem. Could be the helmet itself. Could be the visor. Could be that the visor isn't attached properly to the helmet. If it's a new helmet, take it back to where you bought it (hopefully not the infamous PowerRide) and have them look at it and replace if necessary. You can always send it back to the manufacturer, but that would leave you helmet-less. Since it's an HJC, it's not the most expensive kit so in the worst case scenario you can just go buy yourself another one. Chuck Erick Singley wrote : > > My question - at that speed, if I do a head check [ie to change > lanes] - my visor flips up [full face HJC-5]. I assume that the > wind is coming up under my chin and flipping the it up. How do I > stop this from happening? Get some sort of cover for the chin area? > Adjust my head-turning motion as to not allow wind to get in? Is > something 'wrong' with my helmet that is isn't capable of keeping > shut? Before I start commuting daily, I'd like to not have to worry > about ripping my head off when I look over my shoulder ;) -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:30:10 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: friend had an accident Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:29:13 -0700 On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:33:47 -0400, you wrote: |>>Ah yes.. the typical psychopathic (look up the clinical definition |>>billy) |> |>I knew the definition of "psychopathic", but I thought I'd double |>check in case it meant something other than what I thought it did. It Did you look up the definition or CLINICAL defintion? where did you check? |>didn't. That being said, I don't remember the inestimable Mr. Huson |>saying anything "psychopathic". Psychopathy is typically |>characterized by aggressive, anti-social behavior. I've only met Bill he POSTED (not said) some b.s. and misrepresented events, as well as tried to insult both the skills and intelligence of the person being discussed. I'm sure bill has had "oops my fault accidents". I'm sure bill has challenged his buddies to races. I'm sure my friend could ride circles around bill. |>once, but judging by his behavior then and on this list, he does not |>in any way come close to the clinical definition of being Thank you for that evaulation dr. I said his post was psychopathic, not that I diagnosed him as one. I still dont' think you looked up the clinical definition either. |>"psychopathic". On to the rest of your drivel. |>*snip* (a lot) |>Blah, blah blah. I was really impressed by your ability to make the |>same basic points, using competely different language, 5 times in a |>row! Jeeze. Oh you caught that.. what was my point again? You being impressed was just the icing on the cake, because i'm pretty apathetic when it comes to "impressing" people. |>Otherwise, someone pass me a spoon in case he posts again....so I can |>gag myself before hand. Can you wait until I get a camcorder? I wouldn't mind video taping that! Danny touchee From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:35:29 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Wood, Sally" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:34:37 -0700 |>You've GOT to be kidding! "Get a lawyer" is good advice but what he really |>needs is some religion 'cause he's one lucky SoB for even surviving. I can |>see how this would happen but for him to be incredulous about it is absurd. |>Oh, and 'not too long ago' he dumped the bike complete w/ girlfriend on the |>back? Fuck that. You can defend him all you like but he's nothing but a |>menace. A lucky to be alive menace. Even worse than a cage! |> |>Has he, by any chance, considered taking the Motorcycle Safety Course? I guess you've never caused an accident? never have done anything dumb? Never sped when you shouldn't have? Never have sinned? Yet She who is without sin cast the first stone! There is your religion. Maybe you should find some, instead of stones : ) Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:36:52 2001 From: Phil Simerly To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Let me introduce myself Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:30:25 -0400 Let me introduce myself here. Phil S. (HillJack) I have been riding motorcycles since I was 18 years old (1972 that make me old). I have owned 4 motorcycles in that time. 1972 Yamaha RD250 (Paid $599 New long gone) 1980 Yamaha XS400 (Basket In the barn) 1982 Yamaha XJ650 (For Sale) 1992 Kawasaki ZR750 (Sold) 2001 Harley-Davidson FLHTC (The Couch) Don't want to distract anyone from the all important "A friend of mine..." thread but, does anyone here ride a bagger or a touring bike. (I don't care if its not a Harley that don't mean shit to me) I would like to find some locals to go ride with in the N.VA area. Not that I don't like the sports bikes just that I have been there done that and have the t-shirt. Now anyone here mind me listing in on this group? HillJack EATW #1 ICQ #2014076 HillJack From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:38:25 2001 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:38:10 EDT Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/1/01 10:39:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, im_gone_41_r6@XXXXXX writes: > I was on a country road, not in a suburb and we were > not flying by people's driveways. I'm not that crazy > nor disrespectful... OK...so give me a blow by blow description of the setting for the accident. I'd like to know the following...lighting conditions, weather conditions (light, medium, or heavy rain), road conditions (type of pavement), what was on the side of the road, how wide was the road, type of vehicle you hit (Color, condition, etc). Was it on a curve? How far ahead could you see? Keener From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:39:46 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:39:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: Re: Let me introduce myself To: Phil Simerly , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Welcome aboard! Plenty of cruisers on here. Come to BikeNight and say hello..... --- Phil Simerly wrote: > > Let me introduce myself here. > Phil S. (HillJack) I have been riding motorcycles > since I was 18 years old > (1972 that make me old). > I have owned 4 motorcycles in that time. > 1972 Yamaha RD250 (Paid $599 New long gone) > 1980 Yamaha XS400 (Basket In the barn) > 1982 Yamaha XJ650 (For Sale) > 1992 Kawasaki ZR750 (Sold) > 2001 Harley-Davidson FLHTC (The Couch) > > Don't want to distract anyone from the all important > "A friend of mine..." > thread but, > does anyone here ride a bagger or a touring bike. (I > don't care if its not a > Harley that don't mean shit to me) > I would like to find some locals to go ride with in > the N.VA area. > Not that I don't like the sports bikes just that I > have been there done that > and have the t-shirt. > Now anyone here mind me listing in on this group? > > HillJack > EATW #1 ICQ #2014076 > HillJack > ===== http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:45:25 2001 Subject: RE: Helmet visor moves From: "sdave@XXXXXX" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:43:38 -0400 To: "singley@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Greetings all, Greetings, Erick I was going to write a brief history for people to snigger at the new guy, but I'll keep it short ;) Having passed my MSF course, and gotten the CB-750 K4 to stop leaking oil, major maintenance, etc, I've managed to ride it about 200 miles and have just now gotten onto a highway this week to really take it up to speed [ie 65 mph on rt 70] My only comment is "what an amazing amount of wind there is at that speed compared to 40mph on local streets!" No fairing protection. you'll grow accustomed to it. You may want to consider ear plugs. They cut down on the wind noise, but you can still hear significant noise. I now see the reason behind some people's complaints that the basic course doesn't prepare people enough for highway usage at high speeds. It was a little intimidating, but it's just a matter of practice from here, I'm sure. and sound judgement. My question - at that speed, if I do a head check [ie to change lanes] - my visor flips up [full face HJC-5]. I've never heard of that happening... Usually, when I get up to a certain speed, my visor will close by itself - but not open... sounds like a problem with the latch mechanism. You could try keeping your head down a little as you make your head check.. HTH Dave Yates -------------------------------------------------------------------- Mail2Web - Check your email from the web at http://www.mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 11:47:54 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:46:09 -0400 From: "Randy Moran" To: Cc: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... I'd just like to chime in here, 'cause chiming in is my Thang. First, as to the incident with the truck: It sounds like that one is on you, Robert. From everything you've said, you were going well above the speed limit and approached the driveway in question from around a blind turn. That is just plain dumb and you are lucky you aren't dead. I'm not going to say that I haven't done the same thing over the course of my motorcycling career, but apparently I'm luckier than you are. Those are the breaks. Blaming the guy in the truck is the worst kind of attitude to take. My advice, since your buddy asked: realize what you did wrong, don't do it again. On to my next brilliant point: In one of your first messages to the list, you complained that we on the list were attacking you and asked rhetorically, "(are we) supposed to stand by each other???" Well, yes and no. I figure a motorcyclist should defend a fellow motorcyclist if his/her position is defensible. Yours ain't. In that case, then, a motorcyclist's duty is confront his/her fellow motorcyclist with the facts. So I will. You were going too fast. You almost got killed. You could have killed someone else. Slow that rocket down, cowboy! You are not doing anyone here a favor by driving around like an idiot on fire, t-boning trucks and then blaming the driver for pulling out in front of you. All everyone else (i.e., the car people) sees is a reckless, belligerent biker and "wouldn't it just be better if we just banned those damn motorbikes to begin with?" Now, about the crashing in the wet (a separate incident, which I think some on the list may have confused with the truck thingy). Your description makes this sound like a classic case of getting on powerful brakes too quickly. Even when the bike is straight up and down, slowing/stopping in the wet is a tricky thing. Here are some hints; when you can, use engine braking prior to getting on the binders. This allows weight to transfer to the front, which in turn allows you to get on the brakes with more force (smoothly, of course). Also, the addition of the passenger's weight can both help and hinder your stopping. It can help in that it will allow you to use the back brake with less fear of locking (what causes the back to lock up is the absence of weight necessary to keep the back wheel rolling against the braking force). It can hinder in that now you have more weight to stop. Now, if you weren't on the brakes at all when you crashed with your girlfriend on the back while riding around in the rain, then it's possible that got into a turn a little to quickly for your own comfort, let off the throttle (even slightly will do it, depending on the lean angle), thereby loading up the front end beyond its traction limit for the conditions. It's easy to do, I've done it, and I've seen people (on this list even) do it. The difference is that they figured out what they did wrong and took steps (i.e., practice and education) to ensure that they won't do it again. As a final blab, I would also like to discourage your bringing up what racers do as a sort of justification for your own riding incidents/difficulties. For the most part, the racers whose interviews you read are highly paid professionals riding perfectly prepared machines at their limit on closed circuits. What they do has nothing to do with what you do. Many of them do not ride on the street at all because they consider it too dangerous. That should tell you something. Ride safe, use your head. Randy Moran From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:02:17 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Dave" Cc: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:01:24 -0700 I have to agree with dave. First let me say, about the menacing part.. dude you did 70 mph where a driveway was present. That is dangerous. Not that i'm saying i'm not dangerous, but you know I do my speeding on the highway, without intersections or driveways, parked cars, kids, etc. yet I won't argue if someone calls me a menace.. there is always the chance that something weird would happen, (pothole, animal, tree falling, whatever), that will take me off the bike, and sending it speeding uncontrolably in any direction at tripple digits.. that is menacing.. call us guilty. no contest. Now more importantly... agreeing with him as 1. You should learn from your mistakes/accidents. 2. any accident that coudl have been avoided, is a persons own fault. (from a motorcyclist safety point of view). - like when that cager cut me off and hit me, had I been riding a little more extra paranoid, I could have avoided her "menacing accident" by not being so close to her. Basicly my philosophy to safe motorcycling is, you have to not only ride taking in your own decisions and choices for safety, but those for all the vehicles around you too. Typical example is the vehicle that looks lke it's about to pull out.. you ride not expecting him to stay, but expecting him to pull out.. you slow down.. it's your fault if you assume they wont' violate the law and cream you. or a week ago i went around a bend and hit a pot hole.. I wasn't going too fast.. I just didnt' see it.. however.. I should have been riding in a manner/attention where I did see it. I wasn't speeding.. I guess I just wasn't scanning the road good enough. (it was at night and it looked smaller).. |>> the fucking front wheel just tucked... Plain and |>> simple... |> |>Front wheels dont just tuck. Plain and simple. When you adopt that attitude |>you fail to learn from your mistakes. A good rider will look at what he or |>she could have done different and not blame it on some mystery force. he's right.. I've had a front wheel tuck.. had the front wheel just grabbed and not tucked Iwould have been fine.. however I applied too much force for the given road. The front wheel just didn't tuck, it was my fault. (gravel) That is partly the situation when I got cut off/hit.. now I do pretty good endos.. but I was going to be damned if I were to tuck my front end for that lady then act like it was m fault.. I applied maximum braking, but I wasn't about to try an endo where I couldn't preview the road... so I did as much braking as I could without tucking the front end or endo'ing... |>>but I'm a |>> menace...what the fuck ever.... |> |>According to Danny you told him that you were going 30 to 35 mph over the |>speed limit. On public roads I would consider that a menace. I won't do that in residential areas... but if you find me a straight away road going through a field or something... with a long enough stretch.. yea.. I'll do 120 in a 35. Sometimes the speed limit is too low. However in this particular case.. obviously it is not too low, so ignore this :) Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:11:06 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Jon Strang" Cc: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:10:14 -0700 thank you. I think all those who replied condescendingly have been guilty of their own accusations.. so they should save the condescending attutide, and smart remarks, and just offer the positive ideas of what they really meant to say. |>A quick show of hands: Who on this list has never been a menace by this |>definition? |> |>--jon |>A Public Menace. |>'01 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (black and nekkid) From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:18:29 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Brian Roach Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:17:33 -0700 |>This is a fun thread :) yep! it also gets the prudes vs non prudes going at each other.. that's always fun.. wether it be the helmet or gun threads but anyway I've been riding 2 years. My friend has been riding a year or two.. of course he's got things to learn. We all do. Even the almighty condescenders.. and i don't care how many years they've been riding... and I know darn well they were making mistakes and had things to learn a year or two into thier riding. I don't object to a stern talking to.. and especially dont' object to education.. I do object to the insults though. No one person is above any other. My appreiciation and thanks goes out to those who responded in an adult manner! :) Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:23:01 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: the_penas@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:22:08 -0700 I woudln't be surprised if there were vehicular chemicals mixed in the rainwater.. That is the #1 spot for a vehicle to leak, at a stop light. when it comes to rain, i will engine brake waaaay ahead of the light, (in the same gear) so that when i get to the light, I can be at a speed where i can use my rear brake, without the rear wheel fish tailing.. Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:31:36 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: the_penas@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, Robert Prather Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:30:44 -0700 OH yea, I forgot to write.. the driver of the truck was an older gentleman... Robert says the guy seemed like.. the not so focusing type.. if you catch my drift.. Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:33:57 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:33:05 -0700 On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:39:41 -0400, you wrote: |> |>OK ... ME. I can honestly say that I have NEVER gone 30-35 over in a 35 |>mph zone. Now in a 55 or 65 mph zone, that's another story ... :-) Oh come on. Isn't it POSSIBLE you've gone down some back country roads where you knew there were no houses around..and could have been doing 70 mph... without knowing what the speed limit is? 70 mph is not really that fast if you're on a straight country road... Isn't it possible? Danny the defense rests From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:37:14 2001 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:36:59 EDT Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, jmstrang@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/1/01 12:11:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes: > thank you. I think all those who replied condescendingly have been > guilty of their own accusations.. so they should save the > condescending attutide, and smart remarks, and just offer the positive > ideas of what they really meant to say. OK...let's lay ot all out. The guy wrecked. Was it preventable....maybe....maybe not. Without us having seen it....there isn't any way to know for sure. I've e-mailed with the gentleman privately. He wasn't pissed off and ranting at folks who were yelling at him. He seemed lucid, had a good bit of detail about the scene. My read on it...he might have avoided it...maybe. I don't know if the turn was a blind turn. But given that according to his first hand description of the accident...he ended up tagging the trunk in the middle...while his bike was sitting on the center line. His entire lane was blocked by the truck and he was trying to avoid it. Hmmm....that smacks of somebody pulling out without looking. But it could also be excessive speed. It might also have been target fixation. In this case....I wasn't there. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Obvously the cop didn't. (And didn't speak to him either.) Bad cop...no donut. :) Keener From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:37:24 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Gaske David G DLVA , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:36:31 -0700 That was a different accident, when it was raining dude. water will cut down on your availible traction... it seemed like it 'just tucked' for no reason.. however the answer is... more braking force was applied than was available traction... wether it be just water, oils, gravel or whatever, there was atleast water there, and maybe more stuff. However being the only entity with a thinking mind, one has to take that possibility into account and slow down way before you put yourself into that circumstance. On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:44:40 -0400 , you wrote: |>Give us all a break. Tires tuck in racing because they were pushing the |>limit. They don't tuck because they were riding along and, oh my, my front |>tire "tucked". Since it obviously wasn't your fault that it tucked, then |>whey did it? Tire pressure? Road Debris? Brakes grabbing to hard Please |>enlighten us all as to what super natural forces caused your tire to tuck. |>I'll be first in line to have a ouji board session to ride your bike and all |>bikes of their paranormal entities!!! |> |>David |>'00 Sprint RS (yellow) |>Fredericksburg, Va. USA From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:40:54 2001 From: "Wood, Sally" To: "'daniel_ex250@XXXXXX'" Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: RE: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:36:23 -0400 Daniel -- Not implying that I've never done anything wrong or stupid or haven't sinned. It's just that when I do something wrong/stupid/sinful (which is probably more often than not ;) ), I'm the first one to say "Damn, that was wrong/stupid and/or sinful!!" That's what I find incredible about this story. Not so much that it happened the way it did, but that you guys are so defensive about it. I would be interested to hear the outcome. Do keep us informed. Sally -----Original Message----- From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX [mailto:daniel_ex250@XXXXXX] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:35 PM To: Wood, Sally Cc: 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX' Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... |>You've GOT to be kidding! "Get a lawyer" is good advice but what he really |>needs is some religion 'cause he's one lucky SoB for even surviving. I can |>see how this would happen but for him to be incredulous about it is absurd. |>Oh, and 'not too long ago' he dumped the bike complete w/ girlfriend on the |>back? Fuck that. You can defend him all you like but he's nothing but a |>menace. A lucky to be alive menace. Even worse than a cage! |> |>Has he, by any chance, considered taking the Motorcycle Safety Course? I guess you've never caused an accident? never have done anything dumb? Never sped when you shouldn't have? Never have sinned? Yet She who is without sin cast the first stone! There is your religion. Maybe you should find some, instead of stones : ) Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:42:50 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Dead Horse To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! ===== Chris Weaver VTR1000 YSR50 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:43:52 2001 From: Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:41:18 -0400 Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on US-AMSMTA005/US/INTL(Release 5.0.6 |December 14, 2000) at 08/01/2001 12:41:27 PM Danny, I am not trying to come off as being in your "do-gooder" category, I have certainly had my share of youthful indescretions and close calls. BUT, let's be realistic here ... we are talking about DOUBLE the speed limit in a 35 zone. That is just plain outta bounds, and regardless of the hypotheticals you want to enter in the mix, it is significantly unsafe not only to yourself, but to others. Yes, I am sure there are 35 mph zones on the planet that would fit the criteria you are describing, but c'mon. --chris daniel_ex250@XXXXXX on 08/01/2001 03:33:05 PM To: Christopher Meier/US/ABAS/PwC@Americas-US dc-cycles@XXXXXX cc: Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... On Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:39:41 -0400, you wrote: |> |>OK ... ME. I can honestly say that I have NEVER gone 30-35 over in a 35 |>mph zone. Now in a 55 or 65 mph zone, that's another story ... :-) Oh come on. Isn't it POSSIBLE you've gone down some back country roads where you knew there were no houses around..and could have been doing 70 mph... without knowing what the speed limit is? 70 mph is not really that fast if you're on a straight country road... Isn't it possible? Danny the defense rests ---------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:44:12 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:40:53 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Dude, do you think you can wait 10 minutes and write one email instead of responding to every email one at a time?!??! Jesus-H-Christ on a pogo stick! Folks, forget about the spoon. The auto-gag reflex is working fine all by itself. -sj From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:45:06 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeannette Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: SKeener2@XXXXXX, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, jmstrang@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Hmmmmmmm...someone pulling out without looking??? Around HERE!?? NEVER. I never ever see that. Ever. HUGE sarcasm implied. :-) - Jeannette '86 VFR 700 F2 http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081 --- SKeener2@XXXXXX wrote: Hmmm....that smacks of > somebody pulling out > without looking. > Keener __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:46:41 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:46:25 EDT From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dead Horse To: Cc: ROTFLMAO. Oh my God. That one actually made me fall outta my chair. Half the office just checked to make sure I was alright. LOL Scooter In a message dated Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:43:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Chris Weaver writes: > > > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! > > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump > > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! > > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! > > > > ===== > > Chris Weaver > > VTR1000 YSR50 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:48:29 2001 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:47:58 EDT Subject: Re: Dead Horse To: chris_vtr@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Ya done missed a spot on that thar dead horse. Wanna try agin? From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:51:02 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:50:39 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Dead Horse >WHACK!......WHACK! Ah, that was a true gem! > >===== >Chris Weaver >VTR1000 YSR50 I don't recall ever having seen a VTR1000 YSR50.....but it sounds like a HELLUVA lot of fun!!!! -sj From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:51:16 2001 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:50:41 EDT Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: gingerdc9@XXXXXX, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, jmstrang@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 8/1/01 12:45:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gingerdc9@XXXXXX writes: > Hmmmmmmm...someone pulling out without looking??? 1. Weaver's last post 2. Now this. Help...I've fallen and can't get up!! (I'm laughing too damn hard!!!!) Keener From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 12:51:32 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Erick Singley Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Helmet visor moves Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:50:39 -0700 I have HJC's and they are notorious for that. I just got an AGV and i'm not used to it not flipping up yet. I do believe it is due to the large chin area and weak visor design. You could try stuffing a hankerchief or bandana in the chin area.. becareful to have it secured, because it could fly out from under the helmet one day... Or you could look back like the racers due.. Kind of like looking downard under your under arm (except on the outside fo your arm) and then look back up.. that is what i woudl do pretty often.. or when I would turn my head to look back for my slow friends, I would place my finger on the visor and ride with one hand until i turned my head back. I suggest you take it back and tell them to give you an HJC that doesn't do that or give you another helmet without taking the restocking fee. or you could buy that chin cover thing for like $30.. i always wanted one of those.. hjc has too much helmet noise too, due to that. plus i get debri in my eye from the stuff the win brings in.. plus it has helmet noise.. i'm starting not to like hjc.. of course my agv is even worse on windflow but.. it's comfy and the visor stays down. HJC should have closed that chin opening and just let people use anti fog stuff on the visor. hope this helps.. Danny From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:00:23 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Jeannette Cc: SKeener2@XXXXXX, jmstrang@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:59:31 -0700 |>Hmmmmmmm...someone pulling out without looking??? |>Around HERE!?? NEVER. |>I never ever see that. Ever. |> |>HUGE sarcasm implied. :-) LOL yea and they never try to make right hand turns from the middle lane either! My bike just decided it wanted to hug the right side of that car and get naked from all it's fairings... because the car looked so cute.. yea that's it... yea.. we really pulled one over on the drivers insurance adjuster cuz they are sending me a check anyway! lucky me! :) Danny more sarcasm :) From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:09:22 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Sean Jordan , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:08:30 -0700 |>Dude, do you think you can wait 10 minutes and write one email no. I didn't read that in the 'list rules'. sorry. |>instead of responding to every email one at a time?!??! why not respond to one at a time? you got a problem with attention to detail? when did you become the 'post nazi'? I didn't sign up with digest mode and I dind't want to. |>Jesus-H-Christ on a pogo stick! Jumpin Jesus? you got a wierd religion. |>Folks, forget about the spoon. The auto-gag reflex is working fine |>all by itself. well I take comfort in the thought in knowing if anyone is gagging, it is you ! Danny there is always the ignore/killfile option From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:10:40 2001 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Chris Weaver Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dead Horse Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:09:48 -0700 I'm selling whips for $3 !!! As you can see mine works just fine! On Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:42:48 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: |>WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:12:21 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:12:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Trey Herb Subject: Re: Dead Horse To: DC-Cycles I used to be into beastiality, S&M, and Necrophelia but it go to be like beating a dead horse. <:-P~~~~ > --- Chris Weaver wrote: > > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! > WHACK! > > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack > thump > > WHACK! Whack whack whack whack whack! THUMP! > WHACK! > > crunch thump whack thump WHACK! Whack whack whack > > whack whack! THUMP! WHACK! crunch thump whack > thump > > WHACK! > > > > ===== > > Chris Weaver > > VTR1000 YSR50 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > > with Yahoo! Messenger > > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute > with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:32:13 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:31:36 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... --============_-1215435398==_ma============ >|>Dude, do you think you can wait 10 minutes and write one email > >no. I didn't read that in the 'list rules'. sorry. You must not be looking at the same list as me.....Section 5, article IX states....."Danny may not respond to every email individually. He must reply to them all at one time." > >instead of responding to every email one at a time?!??! > >why not respond to one at a time? Because it's dumb. If Microsoft operating systems can preemptively multitask, than you should be able to. > you got a problem with attention to >detail? Uh.....do you have a problem with Thousand Island Dressing? Who said anything about attention to detail? Who said anything about Thousand Island Dressing? NOBODY. Why bring it up? You're just trying to confuse the issue. Weak. Very weak. >when did you become the 'post nazi'? I think associating people who disagree with you as being a "Nazi" is in very poor taste indeed. If anything, it's fascism. But that sort of "attention to detail" is beyond you....especially since you're probably responding to the 20 posts before this. >I didn't sign up with >digest mode and I dind't want to. You obviously didn't want to use spell check either. Hey, technology is your friend. >|>Jesus-H-Christ on a pogo stick! > >Jumpin Jesus? you got a wierd religion. That's not religion. You didn't look up the "clinical" definition of "religion", did you. Also, try looking up the definition of "clinical' whilst you're at it. >|>Folks, forget about the spoon. The auto-gag reflex is working fine >|>all by itself. > >well I take comfort in the thought in knowing if anyone is gagging, it >is you ! You take pleasure in other people's pain? Wouldn't that make you a bit of a sadist? (Clinically speaking, of course.) >Danny >there is always the ignore/killfile option Sean there is always the ridicule/moronfile option tongue-in-cheek adj. Meant or expressed ironically or facetiously. -- Sincerely, Sean Jordan Macintosh Systems Analyst (703)-886-7661 UUNET Technologies A WORLDCOM Company --============_-1215435398==_ma============ Re: A friend of mine had an accident...
|>Dude, do you think you can wait 10 minutes and write one email
no.  I didn't read that in the 'list rules'. sorry.

You must not be looking at the same list as me.....Section 5, article IX states....."Danny may not respond to every email individually. He must reply to them all at one time."

>instead of responding to every email one at a time?!??!

why not respond to one at a time?

Because it's dumb. If Microsoft operating systems can preemptively multitask, than you should be able to.

 you got a problem with attention to
detail?

Uh.....do you have a problem with Thousand Island Dressing? Who said anything about attention to detail? Who said anything about Thousand Island Dressing? NOBODY. Why bring it up? You're just trying to confuse the issue. Weak. Very weak.

when did you become the 'post nazi'? 

I think associating people who disagree with you as being a "Nazi" is in very poor taste indeed. If anything, it's fascism. But that sort of "attention to detail" is beyond you....especially since you're probably responding to the 20 posts before this.

I didn't sign up with
digest mode and I dind't want to.

You obviously didn't want to use spell check either. Hey, technology is your friend.

|>Jesus-H-Christ on a pogo stick!

Jumpin Jesus? you got a wierd religion.


That's not religion. You didn't look up the "clinical" definition of "religion", did you. Also, try looking up the definition of "clinical' whilst you're at it.

|>Folks, forget about the spoon. The auto-gag reflex is working fine
|>all by itself.

well I take comfort in the thought in knowing if anyone is gagging, it
is you ! <G>

You take pleasure in other people's pain? Wouldn't that make you a bit of a sadist? (Clinically speaking, of course.)

Danny
there is always the ignore/killfile option

Sean
there is always the ridicule/moronfile option

tongue-in-cheek adj.
Meant or expressed ironically or facetiously.


--
Sincerely,

Sean Jordan
Macintosh Systems Analyst
(703)-886-7661
UUNET Technologies
A WORLDCOM Company
--============_-1215435398==_ma============-- From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:37:22 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:38:20 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: Sean Jordan CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Dead Horse Chris' winter project is to stuff the engine from his VTR into the little YSR! %^) Sean Jordan wrote : > > I don't recall ever having seen a VTR1000 YSR50.....but it sounds > like a HELLUVA lot of fun!!!! -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:40:03 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:39:54 -0400 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Sean Jordan Subject: Re: Dead Horse >Chris' winter project is to stuff the engine from his VTR into the >little YSR! %^) Can we stuff that emoticon into the little YSR? :P -sj From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:42:06 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:42:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Dead Horse To: the_penas@XXXXXX, Sean Jordan Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Man, can you imagine the wheelies?!! --- Chuck Pena wrote: > Chris' winter project is to stuff the engine from > his VTR into the > little YSR! %^) ===== Chris Weaver VTR1000 YSR50 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 13:59:28 2001 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Burrow Subject: Re: A friend of mine had an accident... To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Let's all get realistic here. Most of us like going fast. It's one of the main things that draws us towards bikes. I mean come on, What's the first question a lot of people ask us? "How fast have you had it up to?" And a big grin comes across your face as you tell them the answer. Now there are limits too. Don't get me wrong. Rob said he was going 70 max, but if there are no skid marks, could he have really been going that fast around a blind corner? The important thing is everyone was okay. I think we all need to remember that we are invisible to those people in there cages and that when we are in cages to look extra long and hard for bikers. Steve '01 YZF600 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 14:01:40 2001 From: "Fisk, Euan" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Wanted: Honda Scooter Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 14:00:41 -0400 A friend wants to get a motor scooter. She's looking for something reliable over 50cc, which basically means a Honda Elite 80, 125, 150 or 250. Fixer-uppers are fine too since I'm a sucker for punishment, [or maybe just a sucker.] Anyway, thanks in advance for any leads. _____________________ Euan Fisk efisk@XXXXXX 202-329-5812 From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 16:14:30 2001 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:15:30 -0400 From: Chuck Pena To: DC Cycles Subject: Java Shack tonight A few of us (so far, me, George Cole, Gerald Hubbard, and Rich Pelletier) are planning to ride our m/c's to The Java Shack (in Arlington, 2507 N. Franklin St.) tonight and hang out for a bit. We'll be there around 7:30 or so if anyone else is interested in joining us. Chuck http://www.javashack.com -- "Nothing is ever what it seems, but everything is exactly what it is." -- Buckaroo Banzai visit us at http://www.geocities.com/the_penas From dc-cycles-request Wed Aug 1 16:37:33 2001 From: "Lake, Susan" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: trip to NC Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:37:14 -0400 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --------------InterScan_NT_MIME_Boundary ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11AC9.BF489C00 I know this is planning really far in advance but I am looking for someone to ride down with to Greensboro NC, September 27th and traveling back to the DC area on September 30th. Anyone game? Sue ------_=_NextPart_001_01C11AC9.BF489C00
I know this is planning really far in advance but I am looking for someone to ride down with to Greensboro NC, September 27th and traveling back to the DC area on September 30th.