From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:06:04 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: vfr swing arm? Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:14:14 -0500 |>> WHY NOT ??? |> |>Well lets see..... It will not work? |> |>The odds of this working at all are slim. The odds of it working well, or |>safely, far less. |> |>There must be a reason to do something, and for this much work and cost it |>better be a damn good one. |>John. |>PenguinBiker@XXXXXX If memory serves me correctly, putting the vfr swing arm on the RR has been done before and works. I don't see why the single sided swing arm would be too much different as far as mounting concerns. And I have to admit, a chromed Single sided swing arm and wheels would make a RR look a lot prettier than the standard chromed setup. plus the bannana seat on the vfr is ugly to anyone who didn't grow up watching the brady bunch! From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:06:22 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Troutman Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: vfr swing arm? Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:14:32 -0500 Thanks! Danny |>VFR Archives |> |>http://search.cs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/htsearch |> |>http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/200105/msg01724.html |> |> |>___________________________________________ |> |> Mike Troutman |> http://www.troutman.org |> From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:15:03 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: stephen cutchins Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:23:13 -0500 You neglected one safety aspect of filtering. If you filter to the front, then once traffic is moving again, you have less cars in front of you to jam on brakes, or be in their blind spot and hit a wrong turn from the wrong lane in front of you. If the city street is kind of empty, you can also put distance on them. That's always good. |>If it is safety you are worried about then don't |>filter. For filtering to be done for the sake of |>safety, you would have to be the last vehicle in line From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:20:55 2002 Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:20:53 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: bloody salesmen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth of parts on Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store when a lady of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and asked, "so how can I help you?" "I'm interested in getting a bike." "As you see we have a number, the selection would depend on a couple of factors. Would this be your first one?" "yes" "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class." I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was headed... "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter." I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. "Have you attended a MSF class?" "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say." (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even look seriously at buying anything." (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?" I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info. Turning around I point at the next bike in the row. "Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a Suzuki GS500e. They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very popular with women and my students for their riding characteristics and low seat height. I would put them at the top of your list." The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane? It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting right there on the floor collecting dust... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:35:39 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Peter Hartzler Cc: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , DC Cycles Subject: Re: highway curtesy - was City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:43:22 -0500 Speaking of driver attitudes and keeping left... I dont know but recently, a lot of cars have been yeilding from the fast lane for me. I don't know if it's because they recognize motorcycles are coming up and they want ot be curteous, or they want to check out the bikes as they pass, or if it's because of my red/yellow/blue triangular headlight prism putting certain reflective colors in my left headlight and they think i'm a cop. Anyway what the hell.. I enjoy it. When I pass I usually raise my non throttle hand and give them a curteous "thank you" wave. Speaking of prisms, I put a round green/yellow/bluish prism in my friends zx7 and that that bulb now appears bright and good, while the other bulb seems dim. Is it possible the prism changes the light wave to make it "brighter".. or maybe the alignment of his other bulb is off? Danny 00 zx6r From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:46:12 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Paul Wilson" Cc: "Steven C. Di Pietro" , "DC Cycles" Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:54:22 -0500 |>I envision a day devoted to massive civil disobedience. Get a bunch of |>bikes together and aggressively obey the letter of the law, slowing down the |>traffic by refusing to turn right on red (it is discretionary, statute says We did that last year on 495. I think it was every sunday for 4 weeks in a row. It didn't help any. A couple of times in DC cars would pass me (on say NY ave), by taking up half my lane. A$$holes. I'd be maybe near the center and along comes a car in my lane close enough I could kick or spit on, or fall into if i had to weave around a pot hole or something. Should I just shrug it off? or start to strategize? Or maybe I should just catch them at the light, and start off by saying "cool car! is this a 2002 model?" (to get on their good side and show them i'm not bitching) and then be like "yea you scared the shit outta me when you passed me, good think i didn't have to weave around a pot hole" and maybe they'd get the point? It's usually some dumb ass in a shiny type of car who thinks he's cool.. |>red. See below. Now, be honest, show of hands, how many people *really* do |>that? Shortening the yellow increased the take from the red light cameras. I hope they lengthened the time of red lights, and the time from red to green switch then. I'd hate to see people hurt because the gov't got greedy. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 01:53:09 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: re: 2 biggest threats Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:01:20 -0500 1. people who switch lanes without checking their blind spots. 2. people who dont' respect space cushions - all directions I was riding on either 495 or route 50 and on this 3 lane highway what was ahead of me? 3 morons riding side by side in a relatively open traffic area? What if the car in teh slow lane had something come out onto the highway and had to weave to his left? a left sweep domino effect of 3 morons. If you're not passing, don't drive next to any other vehicle. I swear. Morons. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 02:14:06 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "AA DC Cycles" Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:22:17 -0500 "AA Dc cycles" Todd? ROTFL. The only time i've seen lane spltting actually slow cars down, is when there are so many bikes they sometimes stop in between the cars, and when the light turns, the cars wait for them all to clear. But even still that is a rarity, and also the bikes up front should move extra forward to allow their brotheren to get up front and clear the cars. Bikes are only usually a few cars away from the front anyway, the ones behind them aren't losing any time and actually get a car legths distance forward. Saves gas to creep up (in idle setting) to one car length than it does to accellerate through it. I find myself filtering in the MD subburbs more (and selectively) now. It saves me a little time, affords me some safety by being able to leave the group of blind lane changing cars, and it starts getting them used to it happening more often. If they dont' like it, fuck em,that's their personal problem to deal with. Just cuz i do something on my own doesn't mean it actually affects them merely because they can't. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 02:22:03 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Paul Wilson" Cc: Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:30:13 -0500 |>braking room or possible escape routes. Cover your controls and if it's |>comfortable to you, two fingers on the brake lever and two on the throttle |>on your right hand to cut reaction time. I see the potential for a braking thread here. I heavily recommend that you do NOT cover the front brake while holding the throttle One time I did that and nearly wrecked. a needed quick stop popped up, and the problem was I hit the front brake but didnt' let go of the throttle. Front brake stoppage + rear acclleration = BAD NEWS. Good thing I let go of the front brake in time. I actually cover my BACK BRAKE when filtering. because i'm going so slow 1> it's effective enough 2> if you hit an oil or antifreeze spot your front wheel won't slip from under you because of that front brake usage. You shouldn't be going too fast when filtering anyway. Oh yea and I tuck my mirror in when filtering. It really pisses people off when your mirror slap their mirrors. heh heh. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 02:32:18 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "LAURA GRANATO" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: selling a bike with a lien Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:40:29 -0500 |>How does that work? If I want to sell my bike, but I |>need to pay it off first, how does that work???? Contact the lien holder and ask them. I'm sure they must engage in the same scenario often enough. If for some reason they were jerks, one could suggest a legal binding contract. You provide the buyer with a bill of sale, along with a written contract promise to provide the title as soon as it becomes available from the finance company,, and give them possession of the bike, in exchange for full payment, If they want to do that. The only problem though is, find out how long it will take to get your title from the finance company. If your price is cheap enough, or the buyer has the bike fever enough for your bike, they will accept those terms. Other than that, get a loan, pay off the bike, sell the bike, repay the loan. Good luck. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 02:43:15 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "LindaT." Cc: "DC-CYCLES" Subject: Re: jeep Question Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:51:26 -0500 |>I had a flat tire this morning on my Wrangler (which is for sale, BTW). It |>looks like a wood splinter punctured the tread in the sidewall. Can this be |>fixed? I don't think so, so my answer isnt' helpful. There are some patches that go inside Maybe that will work. I just thought it was odd though, I had a dream the other day that I owned a red jeep. I never owned one, or wanted to own one. so i thought it was a funny coinkydink. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 02:47:59 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "LAURA GRANATO" Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: interesting question Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:56:11 -0500 I'd sell them the bike. The problem with our goven't now is that other people want to protect them some people from themselves when they dont' need protecting. They've got their own wisdom, and their own parents. People are responsible for their own kids and themelves, and no one esle. You not selling them a bike isn't going to stop them from doing what they want to do. Sell them the bike if you need it sold. Keep the bike if you want to keep it. But dont' keep yourself from selling the bike merely because she doesn't know how to ride yet. People are capable of learning like that. The MSF course hasn't been around forever. I learned before the course, but did take teh course when i could. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 03:01:26 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: interesting question Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:09:34 -0500 |> NO. You communist! :) |> |> You would be enabling someone to harm themselves & others |>around them needlessly. No license, no ride, no sale. Actually no you aren't. Anyone with hands or feet is already capable of doing that. A man wiht no arms can kick a bus driver in the head. So you're not enabling them. " No liscense, no test ride", but sale is ok. This is america. She can buy it as a lawn ornament. It's her right to do so. There is nothing illegal nor immoral about owning anything you cannot operate (yet). Better yet dont' give them a test ride. Even liscensed riders fall. Especially newly liscensed riders. If they fall on your insurance you get screwed. If they want the bike, let them buy it, with 2 copies of bill of sale, then take it for a test ride. Come back, and sign the title over to them. If they dont' want to buy it, refund the money if it's returned in the same condition. That way if someone gets hurt, legally they were the new owners and their insurance covers it. You get documents to support that. Most insruance policies provide coverage for newly purchased vehicles if they already have an insured vehicle. It's pretty darn negative and insulting to assume this lady is going to be a law breaker. Whatever happened to innocent until proving guilty and treating people fairly. She has every right to buy the bike. |> No certified |>check & proof of insurance for said vehicle, no test drive. Screw the insurance. It's not your job to certify any other citizen is going to register their vehicle. They may not buy it for road use. Certified payment and give over posession of the bike. It's their right. Once you sell the bike, it's their obligation to be law abiding. And it's not your civic duty to play nosey police officer. |>It's a short easy class, and anything worth doing, is worth doing |>right. I'll agree with that. Tell them to call MSF back 30 days after their registration period, because a seat will open when someone else is dropped for non payment. |>Dave the communist! From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 03:07:18 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: interesting question Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:15:30 -0500 Sell the bike with cash. liscense or no liscense. They might have a pick up truck or trailer to get the bike home. They might go and get plates (no liscense required) and have a liscensed driver ride it home. Why assume they are going to do anything illegal. Just strongly suggest you don't mind selling the bike as long as they are going to take it home in a legal manner. Of course you can suggest they do everything legal and they are financially responsible for thier bike and any damage it could cause. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 03:22:17 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Dan Matz" Cc: , "LAURA GRANATO" Subject: Re: interesting question Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:30:28 -0500 |>This guy must be tired of his girlfriend. I wouldn't have even considered |>getting on a streetbike before MSF... he's wacked.. LOL ask her if her gentleman friend recently put a life insurance policy on her ROTFL. |>In response to the question, hell no would I sell a bike to somebody who |>couldn't ride.. but then I get skittish and overprotective when people look |>at my bikes crosseyed... :) (i'm sorry, they're my children, i care) |> |>Ben I look at my bikes as financial investments.. I will find a ride home if you want ot buy it right now and give me enough profit. It's just a replace-able performance machine. It makes it a lot easier to stomach on those misfortunate times when it goes down. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 03:43:15 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Ricardo Pontes" Cc: "Dccycles" Subject: Re: flat tire Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:51:27 -0500 On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:30:01 -0500, you wrote: |>BTW, does 50$ per tire change sound reasonable to anyone? Are there any |>shops who do it cheaper. I got mine changed at heysers. |> You should get a prize for being heysers 100,000th victim! I think cycle accessories in gaithersburg is known for giving good prices, and GRD in southern maryland. I do my own tire changes. I have used leon's secret of a bumper jack on my last tire change. I also think maybe the dirt shop aka cylce accesssories in college park might do it too. Since it was my first time using that method it was a real PIA and I scratched my rim, but it' ok, it was a learning experience and I'll just polish the lips anyway. So now my two questions now are: 1. has anyone perfected the bumper jack method and can list the exact steps. 2. Has anyone perfected it so that I don't scratch wheels up? Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 03:49:15 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: SBave@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: flat tire Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:57:27 -0500 I plug it and go. I've been through curves on a flat rear tire on ocassions and it can be wobbly but nothing that makes me think i'd wreck. Just ride to the gas station and plug it. And be back on my merry way. Some times even a plug would come out, but it's the same thng. no big deal. replug it and use glue this time. Can I have your good tread one hole puncture tires? btw I think most of the times you see the videos of guys doing burn outs, they are using puncture fixed tires. Danny |> My non-expert opinion is you only have 2 tires so why risk it? I know there |>are plenty of people who have successfully plugged a tire but for a little |>more that $100 you can have a new one. And that's much cheaper than plastic |>and hospital bills. And lately I would know how expensive that is... :) |> |>Steve Broadstreet |>ZX-9 From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 06:05:43 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 06:13:56 -0500 Can someone tell me the difference between the two helmets? on the dc city streets you'll see both dual sport riders and sportbike riders (as well as the rest). So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a PLONK right? what's the deal? From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 07:45:13 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:43:22 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet I recall full face dirt bike helmets with cutouts (reliefs) below the ears. This was supposed to prevent a broken clavacle if one's head got wonked to the side. The lower part of the helmet would impact the shoulder and el cracko. Bill daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: > Can someone tell me the difference between the two helmets? > > on the dc city streets you'll see both dual sport riders and > sportbike riders (as well as the rest). > > So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a > PLONK right? what's the deal? From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 07:53:47 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:51:58 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: matthew patton CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray. Salesmen/women aren't social service workers. Their goal is to get the money. And on the flip side, having been on the sales end, far more people won't listen to reason anyway. They *want* a particular ride, and no amount of cajoling will change their mind. Example: One of the patent examiners caught up to me on Friday. HEY, I got a bike! Cool, sez me, what kind? A Habasuyu! *EEK* But I've ridden before, he sez - yeah, more'n a dacade before and his previous big bore was 400. And the salemen did try to talk him down in size, but given the choice of selling the bike or seeing the money walk, the bike got sold. Bill matthew patton wrote: > I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth of parts on > Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store when a lady > of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and asked, > "so how can I help you?" > "I'm interested in getting a bike." > "As you see we have a number, the selection would depend on a couple of > factors. Would this be your first one?" > "yes" > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class." > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was > headed... > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter." > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. > "Have you attended a MSF class?" > "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say." > (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and > other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even > look seriously at buying anything." > (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?" > I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info. > Turning around I point at the next bike in the row. > "Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a Suzuki GS500e. > They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very popular with > women and my students for their riding characteristics and low seat > height. I would put them at the top of your list." > > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane? > It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting > right there on the floor collecting dust... > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 08:44:36 2002 From: "Ricardo Pontes" To: "Dccycles" Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:41:57 -0500 Im in a forum group called www.r1-forum.com and there is this guy there who just bought a brand new 2002 r1, as his first bike. The salespeople recommended he get that one! :) His first post to the group was "I just crashed my R1". He had it about 1 week before he decided to do a "monster wheelie". Apparently he wrecked the bike. But the thing is, that it was recommended by the salespeople because he had a bit of dirt bike experience. Did they recommend the ex500 and gs500e? Or did you recommend those? If they did recommend those bikes as beginner bikes, i can agree with that. I think they were meant for people just starting out, right? They are real nice bikes. Ricardo www.pileofgarbage.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 08:48:26 2002 From: "Bruhl, George LT" To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:47:37 -0500 I just love riding on paint... especially greasy, wet paint. The greasier the paint is the easier you slide when you loose traction. Less friction, less wear and tear on self and parts. :0 >I seem to recall that in downtown Tokyo there is a painted area at >intersections just for motorcycles to filter in to. Whatever you may think >about the Japanese, this to me seems like an excellent idea. Cars know that >bikes WILL filter and are prepared for it. Bikes will filter much more >safely than if they were breaking the rules. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 08:55:26 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:55:19 -0500 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Rico relayed - Im in a forum group called www.r1-forum.com and there is this guy there who just bought a brand new 2002 r1, as his first bike. The salespeople recommended he get that one! :) His first post to the group was "I just crashed my R1". He had it about 1 week before he decided to do a "monster wheelie". On one hand, I say, 'more power to 'im' It's his money, it's his driving record, insurance rates, life etc... OTOH, I think it's a bit irresponsible to reccomend someone buy a liter bike without some kind of street bike experience... That's a bit of a sticky wicket though... One can successfully argue that the Ford Explosion & Chebby Suburbanite are far more lethal, and dangerous to the public in general ... Ah well... What are we going to do ? Dave -- Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts! Sign Up Now! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 09:26:57 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "matthew patton" , Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500 If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her endorsement-wise and vice versa. I always make a point of stating that out to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F ----- Original Message ----- From: "matthew patton" > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter." > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. > "Have you attended a MSF class?" > "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say." > (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and > other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even > look seriously at buying anything." > (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?" > I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 09:30:08 2002 Subject: RE: bloody salesmen From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:30:01 -0500 To: "pattonme@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" One word: COMMISSION. He sells a more expensive bike and he makes more money. That's his incentive, plain and simple. Like a lot of salesman, all he really cares about is the sale and how much money he's going to make. Probably doesn't have a clue about trying to make the customer a long-term, life-long customer. And he's certainly not responsible for responsibility. Caveat emptor. Original Message: The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane? It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting right there on the floor collecting dust... -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 09:33:20 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:33:19 -0500 From: "Chris Norloff" To: "List-dc cycles" Subject: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win An attempt by Allstate to eliminate motorcyclists from medical payment coverage went down in defeat in the case of a young passenger on a bike. http://www.virginiawind.com/news/02mar17.htm From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 09:54:57 2002 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 09:43:14 -0500 I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about if someone is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to MD? Does that endorsement transfer? (asking for a friend) Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "matthew patton" , Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500 If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her endorsement-wise and vice versa. I always make a point of stating that out to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 09:57:17 2002 From: "Bruhl, George LT" To: "'lgranato@XXXXXX'" , "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" Subject: Did you sell your Bike? Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:56:25 -0500 Do you solemnly swear (or affirm) that the below statement is indeed fact. Ever, Never Ever? Never Ever Ever?? Never Ever Ever Ever??? As far as the loss of your first M/C... and all the tender loving care you poured into it. I had that same feeling once, many moons ago. I prepped up a GS750... all the old crappy OEM stuff was gone and replaced with high grade component. Well for some reason or another I decided to sell and I did.... the goof (licensed I might add) I sold it to, hit some sand on a left turn (early spring jaunt) pulled a slider, broke his wrist and ankle and had the bike towed to a lot which I passed every day on the way to work! Now I just hang on to them hence the 78 R80/7 >That's the problem, boy!!!! I'm not getting another >one...I will no longer own a street bike, and I am not >buying another one... From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:02:46 2002 From: "Jon Strang" To: "Rob Keiser" , Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:02:21 -0500 My motorcycle endorsement has traveled with me from state to state since 1984. --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:43 AM > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: Re: bloody salesmen > > > I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about > if someone > is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then > moves to MD? > Does that endorsement transfer? (asking for a friend) > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > > > From: "Paul Wilson" > To: "matthew patton" , > Subject: Re: bloody salesmen > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500 > > If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her > endorsement-wise and vice versa. I always make a point of > stating that out > to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go > to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:03:55 2002 To: GBruhl@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: "LAURA GRANATO" Subject: Re: Did you sell your Bike? Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:03:46 -0800 (PST) "Bruhl, George LT" wrote I sold it...the first guy that came to look at her was standing in a pile of his own drool...we'll see if it actually works out...he didn't tell his wife he was buying the bike, but I haven't heard back from him, so it must be ok. He seemed like a decent guy, so hopefully he'll take good care of her and have fun with her. He's picking her up next week, so I have another week before I have to say goodbye. Laura ________________________________________________ PeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:09:33 2002 From: "Lantech (DCOP)" To: "'Rob Keiser'" , "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:08:36 -0500 >what about if someone >is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to MD? >Does that endorsement transfer? Rob, As long as the person already has the "M" on their license it will transfer. Not sure about nationally but around here you should get exactly what you had in the other state, as long as nothing is suspended, expired or revoked. As with any other MVA transaction be sure to triple-check everything before leaving the counter. DC forgot to transfer my motorcycle endorsement when I turned my MD license in for a DC one (on the next visit DC turned me into a man, they are truly on the ball there!), and a friend had his ommitted when moving from MD to VA. If this is the case and you have not left the premises yet you just go back and ask them to fix it. If you have left, you're possibly in trouble! cheers, patti From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:17:56 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Rob Keiser" , Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:18:57 -0500 Endorsements should transfer between VA and MD without a problem. Just make sure the DMV clerk recognizes you have the endorsement and it shows up on your new license. Some states may have reciprocity issues. The MSF website has a chart showing reciprocity state by state. www.msf-usa.org Paul in DC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Keiser" To: Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:43 AM Subject: Re: bloody salesmen > I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about if someone > is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to MD? > Does that endorsement transfer? (asking for a friend) > > Rob > '98 VFR800 > > > From: "Paul Wilson" > To: "matthew patton" , > Subject: Re: bloody salesmen > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500 > > If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her > endorsement-wise and vice versa. I always make a point of stating that out > to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go > to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test. > > Paul in DC > 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:26:43 2002 Subject: RE: RE: bloody salesmen From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:26:41 -0500 To: "jmstrang@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Putting a little "M" sticker on your license yourself does not count as an endorsement! %^) Original Message: ----------------- From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:02:21 -0500 To: robkeiser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: bloody salesmen My motorcycle endorsement has traveled with me from state to state since 1984. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:39:14 2002 Subject: RE: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:39:13 -0500 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" I know Tom McGrath. Good guy. Avid motorcyclist. And definitely a good lawyer to have if you're involved in a m/c accident (in VA anyway, don't know if he handles cases outside of the Commonwealth). Original Message: ----------------- From: Chris Norloff cnorloff@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:33:19 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win An attempt by Allstate to eliminate motorcyclists from medical payment coverage went down in defeat in the case of a young passenger on a bike. http://www.virginiawind.com/news/02mar17.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 10:51:28 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:50:41 EST From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies To: , Cc: , Well....see now, that was the problem. You did it on a Sunday when there's a lot less traffic. You need to do it on a Monday for 4 weeks in a row and THEN maybe someone will get the point. As to the people "sharing" your lane to pass, it's up to you. Half the time they're too busy yakking on the phone to even realize you are there. A good kick to the door will wake them up. But, it might also cause them to swerve into your lane. I usually lay on the horn, give the universal one fingered salute and then shake my head at the idiots. Scooter In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 1:46:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes: > |>I envision a day devoted to massive civil disobedience. Get a bunch of > |>bikes together and aggressively obey the letter of the law, slowing down the > |>traffic by refusing to turn right on red (it is discretionary, statute says > > We did that last year on 495. I think it was every sunday for 4 weeks > in a row. It didn't help any. > > A couple of times in DC cars would pass me (on say NY ave), by taking > up half my lane. A$$holes. I'd be maybe near the center and along > comes a car in my lane close enough I could kick or spit on, or fall > into if i had to weave around a pot hole or something. > > Should I just shrug it off? or start to strategize? Or maybe I should > just catch them at the light, and start off by saying "cool car! is > this a 2002 model?" (to get on their good side and show them i'm not > bitching) and then be like "yea you scared the shit outta me when you > passed me, good think i didn't have to weave around a pot hole" and > maybe they'd get the point? It's usually some dumb ass in a shiny > type of car who thinks he's cool.. > > > > |>red. See below. Now, be honest, show of hands, how many people *really* do > |>that? Shortening the yellow increased the take from the red light cameras. > > I hope they lengthened the time of red lights, and the time from red > to green switch then. I'd hate to see people hurt because the gov't > got greedy. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:25:44 2002 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:25:14 EST Subject: Re: vfr swing arm? To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 4/1/2002 1:05:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes: > If memory serves me correctly, putting the vfr swing arm on the RR has > been done before and works. If so NEAT! > I don't see why the single sided swing > arm would be too much different as far as mounting concerns. It often seems that NO parts from one year will fit the same model the next year, so the idea of major parts from one model fitting another is stunning. A swing arm is a complex piece of engineering and to go from double to single sided with length, sprockets lining up, bolt and bearing sizes etc. being the same would be amazing to me. (but of course pistons from the first TM125 Suzuki would fit the first CR125 Honda with a little grinding on the skirt. So stranger things have happened.) John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European is now necessary {and I still like it.}) BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:32:35 2002 From: "Sanath S" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Ducati 996 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:21:19 -0500 Hi all, I have been away from the list for about two years now. Decided to come back as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new 2001 Ducati 996. Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea? I really wanted to get a used 996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be many good deals on one. The 2001s come with two years of free service, which I am told is a pretty good deal. I am making my trip to the dealer tomorrow. Would like to hear from any current 996 or Ducati owners also. Oh I used to own a Yamaha YZF 600. Thanks Sanath _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:35:33 2002 From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:35:12 -0500 Subject: Chain tightening To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C1D99B.31E16D60 Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction. I have tried on 3 occasions, and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack quickly. Any advice would be great. TIA, Mike fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike ------_=_NextPart_000_01C1D99B.31E16D60 eJ8+Ig4QAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQWAAwAOAAAA0gcEAAEACwAjAAwAAQAZAQEggAMADgAAANIHBAAB AAsAIwAMAAEAGQEBCYABACEAAAA1NUE4Mjg0ODdBNDVENjExQkZBQzAwNTA4QkUzNEFCNgAmBwEE gAEAEQAAAENoYWluIHRpZ2h0ZW5pbmcANAYBDYAEAAIAAAACAAIAAQOQBgCYBgAALQAAAAMAA4AI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAB9bgEAHgAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEA AAAEAAAAOS4wAAsABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAAAwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAAeACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAsACIAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAAD AAmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMACoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiF AAAAAAAAAgEJEAEAAACTAQAAjwEAAMYBAABMWkZ1Gs6CXQMACgByY3BnMTI1FjIA+Atgbg4QMDMz TwH3AqQD4wIAY2gKwHOwZXQwIAcTAoB9CoGSdgiQd2sLgGQ0DGCOYwBQCwMLtSBFdgSQAiAAkG5j ZSBJIJRnbwVAbgfRdGkJcJ0EICgBoAhgBUBhIARg7QIwaBXgFKApFHEQ8BPg5RbRZBTQbyAJcAdA FBD3EsAUUAQRZxEwFSAPIBYAHHkgEOELgBURZ2h0nwnwCYAVEBeAGPFzYRUgnHNmANAVIAIgLiAW ts50CIEXUAIgIDMcMBgQZmEAkAIgcywV4BKAINxlaRZAE/EdkCcEIBdwjwVABRAZoRoSYmVnGVHf A/AWQB0gBbEdkCABABPgPQkAcAQgFfAJAAVAb2aDFBALYGNrIHF1DeAwa2x5LgqiCoBBbq8ZABdA EiAUUXcIYGwXUBcfEBSQF6F0IiVUSUHCLCI0TWlrZSI0IjTAZnlpIC0gAdAmoHkX4Xp1EmAfAB1B IAE2fyaxBAAVEB2wHwAlRxHhAAEpUAAeAHAAAQAAABEAAABDaGFpbiB0aWdodGVuaW5nAAAAAAIB cQABAAAAFgAAAAHB2Ztpk4AVy0YX9EQ1r4l+Ey7+ZX0AAAsAAgABAAAAAwAJWQMAAAADAN4/r28A AEAAOQBgbeExm9nBAQMA8T8JBAAAHgAxQAEAAAAJAAAAQlJPQ0NISU0AAAAAAwAaQAAAAAAeADBA AQAAAAkAAABCUk9DQ0hJTQAAAAADABlAAAAAAAMA/T/kBAAAAwAmAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAAMAgBD/ ////AgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1VUzthPSA7cD1VU1RSRUFTVVJZO2w9TVMwMS0wMjA0MDExNjM1MTJa LTEzMzYzNgAAAAIB+T8BAAAASgAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1VU1RS RUFTVVJZL09VPURPL0NOPVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049QlJPQ0NISU0AAAAeAPg/AQAAAB4AAABCcm9j Y2hpLCBNaWNoYWVsIChDb250cmFjdG9yKQAAAB4AOEABAAAACQAAAEJST0NDSElNAAAAAAIB+z8B AAAASgAAAAAAAADcp0DIwEIQGrS5CAArL+GCAQAAAAAAAAAvTz1VU1RSRUFTVVJZL09VPURPL0NO PVJFQ0lQSUVOVFMvQ049QlJPQ0NISU0AAAAeAPo/AQAAAB4AAABCcm9jY2hpLCBNaWNoYWVsIChD b250cmFjdG9yKQAAAB4AOUABAAAACQAAAEJST0NDSElNAAAAAEAABzD8EjXPmtnBAUAACDAOug4y m9nBAR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAB0OAQAAABEAAABDaGFpbiB0aWdodGVuaW5nAAAAAB4ANRAB AAAAPQAAADxGRjQwMkJFNTMyNzVENDExQkYyNzAwNTA4QkY5MDY3NzAzRTY4NUFEQG1zMDEuZG8u dHJlYXMuZ292PgAAAAALACkAAAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAGEF5CF2wDAAcQ8wAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAR EAAAAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABFVkVSU0lOQ0VJR09UTkVXVElSRVMoQUJPVVRBTU9OVEhBR08pSUhB VkVIQUROT1JFQUxTVUNDRVNTR0VUVElOR01ZQ0hBSU5USUdIVEVORURUT01ZU0FUSVNGQUNUSU9O SUhBAAAAAAIBfwABAAAAPQAAADxGRjQwMkJFNTMyNzVENDExQkYyNzAwNTA4QkY5MDY3NzAzRTY4 NUFEQG1zMDEuZG8udHJlYXMuZ292PgAAAAA6Vg== ------_=_NextPart_000_01C1D99B.31E16D60-- From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:37:58 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "William J. Huson" , "matthew patton" Cc: Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:29:37 -0500 A CBR 600? Heck, they had a CBR1100XX on the floor the last time I was there. It could've been worse. Better yet sell them a new Triumph and collect the parts mark-up on the (almost inevitable) busted plastic. I can see both sides of the coin though. On the one hand dealerships are like restaurants. They are in business to satisfy the customer's immediate needs, with food that tastes good, or the impulse buy of a motorcycle that is all too common. They are not concerned with the potential heart attack you're going to have down the road from a steady diet of their food. Nor are they in the business of hectoring the customer about what's "good for them." Caveat emptor. On the other hand, a more sophisticated approach is what we have experienced from a software vendor. I called about a CAD package and the salesman actually steered me to a lower cost product, saying it was better for our needs since we'd never use all the bells and whistles of more expensive products due to the nature of our business. Based on what I had read, I was ready to pull the switch on more expensive software. While he may have earned less commission (it's hard to tell actually) he built a better relationship with the customer because he instilled trust and actually took the time to understand our needs. I'm more likely to buy something from him again. Being counseled to a higher-priced product that really didn't fit our needs may very well have soured our relationship. In the motorcycle and auto sales business, though, there is rarely this sort of long term commitment to the customer. Maybe at some BMW places where the marque's premium image is involved and there is a lot of repeat business and high-priced OEM-label accessory sales. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" > Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you > or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray. > > Bill > > matthew patton wrote: > > > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class." > > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was > > headed... > > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter." > > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. .. > > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these > > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to > > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane? > From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:38:12 2002 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:37:33 EST Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 4/1/2002 6:06:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes: > So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a > PLONK right? what's the deal? LEGALITY The dirt bike helmet will (likely) not have the required DOT sticker, and will not have been tested for street use. Dirt bike helmets will not have a flip shield, but will have a large opening for goggles. The chin bar (full face) will be vented (much weaker) and farther from your face to provide air to a rider that is working harder and going slower (I once ran an enduro with a full face street style helmet and though I was going to suffocate weaving in and out of trees.) There are no doubt other differences. John Walters (Long John) PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Up near DC Honda ST1100X Pan European (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European is now necessary {and I still like it.}) BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles Honda 1976 CR250M Motowhat racer From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:49:09 2002 X-EM-APIVersion: 2, 0, 0, 7 From: "Kirk Roy" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:48:29 -0500 PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote: > In a message dated 4/1/2002 6:06:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, > daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes: > > > So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a > > PLONK right? what's the deal? > > LEGALITY > The dirt bike helmet will (likely) not have the required DOT sticker, and > will not have been tested for street use. What? My dirt helmet is DOT (and Snell, actually) tested with stickers and all that. I haven't seen a dirt helmet without a DOT sticker and I buy towards the cheaper end of the helmet aisle... Kirk From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:56:15 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:56:08 -0500 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Subject: re: Ducati 996 I have been away from the list for about two years now. Decided to come back as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new 2001 Ducati 996. Welcome back ! Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea? Gimer, over to you.... I really wanted to get a used 996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be many good deals on one. The 2001s come with two years of free service, which I am told is a pretty good deal. Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty good deal' ? Dave -- Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts! Sign Up Now! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 11:57:19 2002 Subject: RE: Chain tightening From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:57:17 -0500 To: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Mike, "Right to begin with" should be ~1.5" of slack (your owner's manual should have an exact spec). A relatively easy adjustment with a center or swingarm stand (even for mechanical newbies). And it's usually better to err on the side of having a little too much slack rather than not enough. If it's developing slack after riding, then either the rear wheel isn't bolted in right (i.e., the right torque on the nuts) and it's somehow slipping and/or the adjusters that set the wheel in the swingarm aren't set to keep it in place (i.e, you moved the wheel but not the adjusters). That's all I can think of. Chuck Original Message: ----------------- From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:35:12 -0500 To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX Subject: Chain tightening Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction. I have tried on 3 occasions, and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack quickly. Any advice would be great. TIA, Mike fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:03:52 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:03:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Ducati 996 From: Sean Jordan To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty good deal' ? > > > Dave Dave must not have priced Ducati service lately..... Sean Jordan Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:05:16 2002 From: "Jon Strang" To: "DC Cycles" , Subject: RE: Chain tightening Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:04:50 -0500 There is a significant chance you are over-tightening the chain. Since your 600 doesn't have the awe-inspiring, mind-boggling, pavement rippling, ass-puckering torque of my mighty, mighty 1200...I don't think you're stretching the chain "normally." It is pretty easy to have a too tight chain that getting tighter as the suspension goes through it's travel, putting excessive stress on wheel and countershaft bearings. On my Bandit, which should be nearly the same as your 600, if I adjust the chain 'properly', it tightens up after I tighten up the axle. I don't know why, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but it is very consistent. So, I adjust the chain with the adjusters, but leave it a couple of "flats" slack(I count flats on each adjuster nut...you know, how many flat surfaces I turn by--6 is one complete revolution). When I tighten the axle nut, it ends up just right. Also, if you look at the manual, it says something like, " 1" to 1 1/4" of slack." If you are pushing the chain hard at all to get check that spec, you're probably too tight. And remember, for m/c chains, too loose is better than too tight. --jon 01 Suz Bandit 1200 > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX [mailto:Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:35 AM > To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX > Subject: Chain tightening > > > Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success > getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction. I have tried on 3 > occasions, > and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack > quickly. > Any advice would be great. > TIA, > Mike > > fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike > ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:06:03 2002 From: biga@XXXXXX (Andrew Culpepper) Subject: Re: Chain tightening To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:06:01 -0500 Also, a chain can develop really loose spots and in extreme cases can be too tight in spots and too loose in others. You have to check the tension at several different points on the chain. Andrew From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:08:06 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:08:01 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: Ducati 996 To: Sanath S , dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- Sanath S wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been away from the list for about two years now. > Decided to come back > as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new > 2001 Ducati 996. > Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea? you'll love the bike if you don't mind the riding position i have a 2000 biposto and would be happy to chat with you about it.... only difference between the two models (i believe) is that you'd have the ohlins rear... > I really > wanted to get a used > 996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be many good deals on > one. The 2001s come > with two years of free service, which I am told is a > pretty good deal. I am > making my trip to the dealer tomorrow. you'll likely be very happy you have a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. trust me. my warranty work easily adds up to $3k+. i don't know about "free service".... verify that they are providing you no-cost scheduled maintenance for the first two years.... > Would like to hear from any current 996 or Ducati owners > also. Oh I used to > own a Yamaha YZF 600. be prepared for pain in new places.... yzf is a couch compared to the 996.... -- tg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:12:21 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:12:20 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > I see the potential for a braking thread here. I heavily recommend > that you do NOT cover the front brake while holding the throttle One > time I did that and nearly wrecked. a needed quick stop popped up, > and > the problem was I hit the front brake but didnt' let go of the > throttle. Front brake stoppage + rear acclleration = BAD NEWS. > Good thing I let go of the front brake in time. The act of pulling on the lever should have rolled off the throttle even if you're covering the lever. Covering the lever means you've got fingers sticking out there ready to pull on the lever, not necessarily hooked over the lever itself. Since the right thing didn't happen I can immediately tell that you're riding with your wrist high. The issue isn't the act of squeezing the brake and keeping the throttle on (the bike will stop and the gine will bog and stall), but since you're wrist was high you were adding throttle while also squeezing the brake, hense the spinning rear. Correct technique is the key. Wrong technique was your problem. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:24:24 2002 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:24:00 -0500 From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Chain tightening To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Chuck offered: If it's developing slack after riding, then either the rear wheel isn't bolted in right (i.e., the right torque on the nuts) and it's somehow slipping and/or the adjusters that set the wheel in the swingarm aren't set to keep it in place (i.e, you moved the wheel but not the adjusters). How do I assure myself that I am not doing this? I loosen both the axle bolt and the adjuster bolts, and have been pulling on the tire. Is there a way to make sure that I am actually moving the adjusters and not just the tire? From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:28:24 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:28:23 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: re: Ducati 996 To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- sdave@XXXXXX wrote: > > I have been away from the list for about two years now. > Decided to > come back as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a > brand new 2001 > Ducati 996. > > > Welcome back ! > > > Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea? > > > Gimer, over to you.... actually, as bad as my experience was, i'd still buy another. very wierd what these beautiful machines do to one's thought processes.... just thought of something: are the rocker arms a problem on the '01 model? if so, he should be very careful to stay on top of that issue.... > I really wanted to get a used 996 but there just donM-^Rt > seem to be > many good deals on one. The 2001s come with two years of > free > service, which I am told is a pretty good deal. > > Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty > good deal' ? 2 years of no-cost scheduled maintenance would have been a $1000+ bonus for me. i only secured my first two services without cost. sounds like a good deal if he's gonna be putting a lot of mileage on the thing..... -- tg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:30:49 2002 From: "Jon Strang" To: , , Subject: RE: Chain tightening Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:30:23 -0500 You shouldn't have to pull on the tire at all. After you loosen the lock nuts several turns, you use the adjusters to force the wheel rear-wards, tightening the chain. Then you re-lock the adjusters with the locknuts, and tighten (torque) the axle nut. The wheel should stay against the adjusters the entire time. > How do I assure myself that I am not doing this? I loosen both the axle > bolt and the adjuster bolts, and have been pulling on the tire. > Is there a > way to make sure that I am actually moving the adjusters and not just the > tire? ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:33:46 2002 From: "Rob Keiser" To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:18 -0500 This thread has come up at an interesting time for me. You see, I'm contemplating getting back into the motorcycle business, and was wondering what the list impression is of Criswell Power Sports in Gaithersburg. I haven't seen much, if any, mention of them at all here. Anyone care to comment on their experience(s) there, or can say what they need to work on? Personally, I've never done business with them, but I did do some parts research there for a used bike my bro once looked at buying. I say 'getting back into' because I did spend some time at Coleman 5 years ago and absolutely hated it. But in relation to this thread, I did talk a young kid, hell bent on a sport bike as his first, out of a 750 and onto a CBR600. Small moral victory in my book. Just curious what the general opinion is, that's all. I haven't committed to anything there yet, but they are ridiculously close to me and it's worth checking out. Thanks. Rob '98 VFR800 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "William J. Huson" , "matthew patton" CC: Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:29:37 -0500 A CBR 600? Heck, they had a CBR1100XX on the floor the last time I was there. It could've been worse. Better yet sell them a new Triumph and collect the parts mark-up on the (almost inevitable) busted plastic. I can see both sides of the coin though. On the one hand dealerships are like restaurants. They are in business to satisfy the customer's immediate needs, with food that tastes good, or the impulse buy of a motorcycle that is all too common. They are not concerned with the potential heart attack you're going to have down the road from a steady diet of their food. Nor are they in the business of hectoring the customer about what's "good for them." Caveat emptor. On the other hand, a more sophisticated approach is what we have experienced from a software vendor. I called about a CAD package and the salesman actually steered me to a lower cost product, saying it was better for our needs since we'd never use all the bells and whistles of more expensive products due to the nature of our business. Based on what I had read, I was ready to pull the switch on more expensive software. While he may have earned less commission (it's hard to tell actually) he built a better relationship with the customer because he instilled trust and actually took the time to understand our needs. I'm more likely to buy something from him again. Being counseled to a higher-priced product that really didn't fit our needs may very well have soured our relationship. In the motorcycle and auto sales business, though, there is rarely this sort of long term commitment to the customer. Maybe at some BMW places where the marque's premium image is involved and there is a lot of repeat business and high-priced OEM-label accessory sales. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F ----- Original Message ----- From: "William J. Huson" > Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you > or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray. > > Bill > > matthew patton wrote: > > > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class." > > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was > > headed... > > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter." > > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. .. > > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these > > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to > > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane? > _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:36:10 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:36:08 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: bloody salesmen To: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX two problems here: 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have had no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably just took food out of his kids' mouths. 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is the respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot make valid, blanket statements about machines... in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user friendly bike on the market. --- matthew patton wrote: > I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth > of parts on > Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store > when a lady > of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and > asked, > "so how can I help you?" > "I'm interested in getting a bike." > "As you see we have a number, the selection would depend > on a couple of > factors. Would this be your first one?" > "yes" > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class." > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where > this was > headed... > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good > starter." > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in. > "Have you attended a MSF class?" > "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they > say." > (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in > Fredericksburg and > other places are not so busy. You should take the class > before you even > look seriously at buying anything." > (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?" > I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county > sign-up info. > Turning around I point at the next bike in the row. > "Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a > Suzuki GS500e. > They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very > popular with > women and my students for their riding characteristics > and low seat > height. I would put them at the top of your list." > > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong > with these > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to > own up to > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 > way sane? > It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no > less) sitting > right there on the floor collecting dust... > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 12:44:37 2002 From: SKeener2@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:44:11 EST Subject: Re: bloody salesmen To: t_gimer@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary > two problems here: > > 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have had > no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably just > took food out of his kids' mouths. Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a violent needless death? The kids can skip a meal. Sorry Gimer...I agree with Patton. Most salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes and/or riding. I've worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions only. > 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot > can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is the > respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot make > valid, blanket statements about machines... A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike. I'm sorry...it just isn't so. > in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user > friendly bike on the market. Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when annoyed at that car in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic. Face it...in a perfect world it would be great. But most people don't pay that much attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal combination...hp & inattention. --part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary

two problems here:

1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
took food out of his kids' mouths.


Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a violent needless death?  The kids can skip a meal.  Sorry Gimer...I agree with Patton.  Most salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes and/or riding.  I've worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions only. 

2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
valid, blanket statements about machines...


A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike.  I'm sorry...it just isn't so.

in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
friendly bike on the market.


Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when annoyed at that car in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic.  Face it...in a perfect world it would be great.  But most people don't pay that much attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal combination...hp & inattention. --part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary-- From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:21:38 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Boxer Bill Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:22:30 -0500 http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:24:48 2002 From: "Jon Strang" To: "dc-cycles list" Subject: RE: Boxer Bill Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500 She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible for the safety of customers" portion --jon 4/1/02.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM > To: dc-cycles list > Subject: Boxer Bill > > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. > > From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:24:56 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:36 -0600 From: "George Cole" To: , Subject: Re: bloody salesmen >>> "Rob Keiser" wrote SNIP >was wondering what the list impression is of Criswell Power Sports in Gaithersburg. I have been up there a few times, I thought they were supposed to move into a new location and have a multi-vendor dealership. From what I have seen at their current location, behind all the Criswell car dealerships, there are never any customers looking at or buying bikes when I have been there and they have virtually no accessories dept, and all the bikes are packed in a very small space. I have heard that Criswell is a good organization, but since it is mainly a car dealership business I would wonder about the "car business" mentality. Are you looking for a sales job there? if that's the case and they are staying in that location I wouldn't do it. Besides you need to sell Honda's George From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:35:23 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:35:21 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Gimer Subject: Re: bloody salesmen To: SKeener2@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX --- SKeener2@XXXXXX wrote: > > > > two problems here: > > > > 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have > had > > no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably > just > > took food out of his kids' mouths. > > Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a > violent needless death? if this is really about saving lives, then let's close the motorcycle shops altogether.... i find it interesting the way you have phrased this as if it were a news headline about a brutal stabbing on the street. this is a dangerous recreational activity and everyone who walks into a shop knows that.... > The kids can skip a meal. Sorry Gimer...I agree > with Patton. Most > salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes > and/or riding. I've > worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions > only. apparently this salesman was trying to push the $8k bike, not the $11k one.... salesmen are salesmen. just because they're in the motorcycle industry shouldn't subject them to higher moral standards, imo. in a perfect world, perhaps.... > > 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an > idiot > > can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is > the > > respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot > make > > valid, blanket statements about machines... > > A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike. I'm sorry...it just > isn't so. i 100hp bike is a better beginner bike than a 140hp bike. let me be clear, though: i'm not recommending that everyone go out and purchase a 100hp starter bike.... at the same time i know plenty of people who could handle such a machine as their first bike because they already know of the respect due the machine from the rider which is required for motorcycles in general. i started on dirt bikes, then dual purpose, then small sportbikes.... and that was definitely helpful to me. however, not everybody has that opportunity, so they try to find a first bike that they can handle, then grow into. the cbr600 would seem (to me) to fit that bill. the f3 was such a bike, imo. has the newest model become an incredibly powerful beast? i would guess only at or near redline.... > > in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user > > friendly bike on the market. > > Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when > annoyed at that car > in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic. > Face it...in a > perfect world it would be great. But most people don't > pay that much > attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal > combination...hp & > inattention. MOTORCYCLES and inattention would seem to be just as lethal a combination.... "snapping the throttle" in some sort of rage (quite odd that you have chosen this as the circumstance in which a newbie on a sportbike would find himself in trouble) is going to get you in trouble on most bikes. motorcyles in general are dangerous in the hands of newbies..... sportbikes even more so. but there is no shock factor for me in a newbie 600 purchase. -- tg __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:36:35 2002 Subject: RE: RE: Chain tightening From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:36:34 -0500 To: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" What Jon said. If you're getting too much slack, use the adjusters to move the wheel back in the swingarm until you have the requisite static slack. Don't pull the wheel back and then turn the adjusters. And Jon is also right about losing some of the slack when you tighten up the axcle nuts. So if the recommended slack is 1-1.25", 1.5" before you tighten the bolts will probably be about right. One other (remote) possibility is that your chain is just a link or two too long for the sprocket combination you're running. But I'm more inclined to think that you just don't have the axle adjusters set right and for some reason the wheel is moving forward just wee bit (even with the axle bolts tightened properly. Original Message: ----------------- From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:30:23 -0500 To: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX, cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Chain tightening You shouldn't have to pull on the tire at all. After you loosen the lock nuts several turns, you use the adjusters to force the wheel rear-wards, tightening the chain. Then you re-lock the adjusters with the locknuts, and tighten (torque) the axle nut. The wheel should stay against the adjusters the entire time. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:39:04 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:36:46 -0600 From: "George Cole" To: , Subject: Re: Boxer Bill Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this? George Cole >>> "Paul Wilson" 04/01/02 01:22PM >>> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:42:34 2002 Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:42:33 -0500 To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" The MSF is advocating for this kind of legislation??? What a bunch of crap. Just what we need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I think the MSF does a great thing teaching people how to ride motorcycles. But they ought to keep their noses out of legislation. Original Message: ----------------- From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: Boxer Bill She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible for the safety of customers" portion --jon 4/1/02.... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM > To: dc-cycles list > Subject: Boxer Bill > > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:43:27 2002 From: "Bruce Norton" To: Subject: Re: Boxer Bill Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:44:09 -0500 Note the date. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Cole" > Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this? > > George Cole > > > >>> "Paul Wilson" 04/01/02 01:22PM >>> > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:45:31 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:45:30 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Weaver Subject: Re: Boxer Bill To: dc-cycles list You almost had me. I was writing a long diatribe against this hag when I realized that today is April first. Close, but no cigar!!! :^P Chris Weaver --- Paul Wilson wrote: > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:46:04 2002 Subject: RE: Re: Boxer Bill From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:46:03 -0500 To: "george.cole@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" , "pawilson@XXXXXX" My bad re my previous post. This group is not the MSF that we all know and love (except for those of who rely almost exclusively on our front brakes!) This is the Motorcycle SAFELY Foundation. And is this for real or some sort of practical joke??? Original Message: ----------------- From: George Cole George.Cole@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:36:46 -0600 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, pawilson@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Boxer Bill Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this? George Cole >>> "Paul Wilson" 04/01/02 01:22PM >>> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:46:30 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:46:29 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Kitchell Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" you guys are gulible! --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" wrote: > The MSF is advocating for this kind of > legislation??? What a bunch of crap. Just what we > need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I think the MSF > does a great thing teaching people how to ride > motorcycles. But they ought to keep their noses out > of legislation. > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500 > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > Subject: RE: Boxer Bill > > > She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible > for the safety of > customers" portion > > --jon > 4/1/02.... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM > > To: dc-cycles list > > Subject: Boxer Bill > > > > > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled > today. > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:48:43 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Hartzler To: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" cc: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: RE: RE: Chain tightening X-Loop-Detect: 1 I've noticed that it matters what angle your wrench is when you torque down axle bolts. This because the wrench not only conveys torque, but also lateral force corresponding to the direction you're pushing the handle. You may find that pushing up/down moves the axle fore/aft less than pushing forward/backward, or that pushing the wrench handle so that the axle is pushed against the adjuster stops gives you more control, as opposed to pulling the axle away from the adjuster stop. Gee, I sure hope that makes sense! -ph From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:49:30 2002 From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:49:10 -0500 Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX All I know is that it has to be an April Fool's joke... Otherwise and un-motivated person like myself might actually send a letter to my congressperson From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 13:52:25 2002 Subject: RE: RE: RE: Boxer Bill From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:52:24 -0500 To: "markkitchell@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Sheepishly ... OK, I admit to being had. And just to make sure, I checked Senator Boxer's website and the aforementioned bill was not in the news. What a tosser! Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:46:29 -0800 (PST) To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill you guys are gulible! -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 14:12:20 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:12:19 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Lamond Subject: Re: Boxer Bill To: Paul Wilson , dc-cycles list Not again! I just read all the people screaming their heads off over this on the SV650 list, until someone pointed out that it is was published April 1st. Keith --- Paul Wilson wrote: > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 14:33:04 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Mark Kitchell" , , Subject: Re: RE: Boxer Bill Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:33:09 -0500 ROTFLMAO!! Chuck, you ought to know better. Check out the rest of the web site. It is very well done. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Kitchell" To: ; > you guys are gulible! > > > --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" > wrote: > > The MSF is advocating for this kind of > > legislation??? What a bunch of crap. Just what we > > need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I think the MSF > > does a great thing teaching people how to ride > > motorcycles. But they ought to keep their noses out > > of legislation. > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX > > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500 > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: Boxer Bill > > > > > > She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible > > for the safety of > > customers" portion > > > > --jon > > 4/1/02.... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM > > > To: dc-cycles list > > > Subject: Boxer Bill > > > > > > > > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > > > > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled > > today. > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 14:56:47 2002 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:56:28 EST Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 4/1/2002 12:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes: > I felt claustrophic and short of breath just thinking about riding off road > in a full face street helmet. At the time there were no dedicated off road helmets (That I am aware of) Few of us rode with full face on or off road. I wore a full face helmet when racing motocross on an open class bike and it was no problem, motocross is relatively fast, I got plenty of air. However when I tried enduro with its much slower speeds I damn near passed out. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 15:10:39 2002 From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:10:25 EST Subject: Re: Boxer Bill To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX In a message dated 4/1/2002 1:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes: > What a bunch of crap. Just what we need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I aggree it is crap.... But I think you should check todays date. John. PenguinBiker@XXXXXX From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 15:31:48 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: matthew patton Subject: Re: bloody salesmen To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Tom Gimer opined: > 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have had > no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably just > took food out of his kids' mouths. He wasn't married. Or at least wasn't wearing a ring to indicate such. > 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot > can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is the > respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot make > valid, blanket statements about machines... No, but I damn well can provide some reasonable input when I happen to be in the neighborhood. The customer was completely and utterly clueless. All she had was a vague desire to "ride a motorcycle." For who knows what reasons. She was way too short to deal with the F4 seat-height not to mention the "break your wrists" forward leaning position. Gimmer, you're a way weird example. Nobody I know rides a Duc like you do and the torture rack model no less. Sure I'm asking too much of sales droids to actually give a rat's ass or be in any way NOT an absolute bottom-line, separate them from their cash and to hell with the consequences, sort of person. In car dealerships it's not very common to confront a person who doesn't have the first damn clue about the operation of a vehicle. You find that in bike shops all of the time. And people walk into dealerships thinking that the sales dude is a trustworthy, authoritative source on all things 2-wheeled. Hah!! > in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user > friendly bike on the market. Like hell! User friendly to you or anybody else who just so happens to be used to riding a 100HP missile purhaps, and has considerable riding experience under the belt. Maybe you were weaned on 60HP bikes when you were five but really Tom, how much have you rubbed shoulders with people not even taking their first steps in the area of motorized 2 wheeled transport? I do and by the dozens. I probably wouldn't have gotten a stick up my ass had the guy really not had anything suitable on the floor. He had more like 5, count 'em 5 beginner bikes. Used bikes are a drag on any dealerhip's floors and he had a prime opportunity to sell one and wasn't even close to giving them mention, let alone emphasis when even a blind, deaf, mute would have known that the CBR was the worst possible solution available. I could have really gotten in his craw by mentioning how rediculous his pricing was and that sales from private parties and other resources would yield better results. But I didn't because even I know that would be leaping across the line of good manners. As it is, the lady came away vastly better informed both on bikes and training and can then help focus her future searches. And she just might buy her GS or EX from them. The salesman had plenty of cred left, I just "helped" him focus on what he should have been doing from the get-go. I am sympathetic to the Libertarian bent of "to hell with people, let them make their own choices and reap the consequences and not allow gov't to intrude on personal decisions..." Unfortunately the world doesn't turn like that. The MC community is composed entirely too much with fools and vagabonds of various stripes. "Responsible behavior" on a motorcycle is about as accurate as "military intelligence." Whether or not we like it, legistation and other action is contantly trying to 'fix' the perceived problem. If by intervening (and really, I wasn't obnoxious about it) I can spare one more life, keep one more headline from appearing, and give a person the opportunity to learn and ENJOY the experience then IMO that was a good day's work. We need more evangelists and fewer, rabid zealots screaming about 'rights.' It may not grab headlines like Jesse Jackson, but the 1:1 interaction and ground-swell is what lasts and returns greater long-term dividends. If anyone wants to dispute this further, let's do it off-line. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 15:43:19 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:42:37 EST From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Boxer Bill To: , , Doubt it. Check out the date. 4/1/02 :-) Scooter (I ain't no fool...usually ;-) ) In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 1:41:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, "George Cole" writes: > Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this? > > George Cole > > > >>> "Paul Wilson" 04/01/02 01:22PM >>> > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 15:45:05 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:44:36 EST From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill To: , , Aren't they. I came prepared for the worst today at work. So far...nothing. Scooter (AFDA - April Fool's Day Aware) In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002 1:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mark Kitchell writes: > you guys are gulible! > > > --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" > wrote: > > The MSF is advocating for this kind of > > legislation??? What a bunch of crap. Just what we > > need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I think the MSF > > does a great thing teaching people how to ride > > motorcycles. But they ought to keep their noses out > > of legislation. > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX > > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500 > > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX > > Subject: RE: Boxer Bill > > > > > > She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible > > for the safety of > > customers" portion > > > > --jon > > 4/1/02.... > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] > > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM > > > To: dc-cycles list > > > Subject: Boxer Bill > > > > > > > > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > > > > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled > > today. > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover > http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 15:51:42 2002 From: "Ricardo Pontes" To: "Dccycles" Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:51:55 -0500 In England, i believe they need to attach L *learner* plates on the back and wear bright orange vests when they are starting out. This is a good idea. Doesnt this sort of thing make insurance rates go up for the rest of us? Why is it that its much more expensive to insure a 20 year old male rider, than a 40 year old female rider? Could it be because most of the accidents are caused or involve 20 year old riders? It certainly is HIS life on the line. But dont forget, that there are many more people on road than just one guy riding recklessly. His inexperience on the bike could cause someone else to crash, is this possible? Personaly i started riding on bigger bikes, and i never had any problems. Go figure. Ricardo From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:07:54 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:07:48 -0500 From: To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Cc: Subject: RE: bloody salesmen In England, i believe they need to attach L *learner* plates on the back and wear bright orange vests when they are starting out. This is a good idea. I have a relative that did surveillance for the FBI (not a special agent, so no, I can't get you off of any federal raps), they now instruct at Quantico. At any rate, part of their duty was to tail Soviet diplomats, whose plates all began with "FC", allegedly for 'f%%king communist'. Now, they live in DC, with license plates on their car with letters "BG" on them - which I liken to 'Bad Guy' ;-) Dave -- Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts! Sign Up Now! Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:11:48 2002 From: "Ricardo Pontes" To: "Dccycles" Subject: RE: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:12:05 -0500 I dont see that his comments are out of line. I see this post as a education of a woman who wants to get into motorcycles. Im sure she is a bright woman, capable of making up her own mind. Now she has more of a selection to make an intelligent decision. Most salesmen tell you anything in order to sell you a bike. If they see a 18 year old guy coming in to buy a Hayabusa as a 1st bike, they tell him what he WANTS to hear. Same thing with this woman. You can bet a fellow motorcyclist has more useful information than that blood suckin vampire(and i mean that in a good way) :) Hey, do they still have any triumph tigers for sale in Clinton Cycles? There should be lisences for every size of bike. 50cc, 250, 500, 600, 1000, 1200+. Gradually getting all the licenses to get to the heavy bikes. Ricardo two problems here: 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have had no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably just took food out of his kids' mouths. 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is the respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot make valid, blanket statements about machines... in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user friendly bike on the market. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:25:09 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:23:11 -0500 (EST) From: hcaldwell To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: Boxer Bill Damn, you had me worried for a while then I remembered it was St. Hugh's day. Everyone is encouraged to have some single malt or beverage of choice in honor of my patron saint. Hugh On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Paul Wilson wrote: > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today. > From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:41:43 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:50:01 -0500 Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer heat compramise? not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor type of deal much like a ball cap. Sun in my eyes really sucks. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:44:28 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "William J. Huson" Cc: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:52:47 -0500 Keep in contact with him. I'll buy it from him and the insurance comapny after he wrecks it. Danny |>got a bike! Cool, sez me, what kind? A Habasuyu! *EEK* But I've ridden |>before, he sez - yeah, more'n a dacade before and his previous big bore was |>400. And the salemen did try to talk him down in size, but given the |>choice of selling the bike or seeing the money walk, the bike got sold. |> |>Bill From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:44:41 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0800 (PST) From: stephen cutchins Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX A dirt bike helmet is designed for multiple tumbles also, so the shells are usually plastic and the cushioning is more cushioney but less hard-impact resistant. I have taken some hard hits to the head in street bike helmets (which would explain some things), I am very glad I wasn't wearing my dirt bike helmet at the time. I would stick with a street bike helmet for the street. --- daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: > Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer > heat compramise? > > not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor > type of deal much > > like a ball cap. Sun in my eyes really sucks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:46:56 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Ricardo Pontes" Cc: "Dccycles" Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:55:15 -0500 Sounds like the time my friend told me about his lunch time experience. He goes to a bike shop, i think cycles usa? and some kid is getting an R1. I think even his mother is helping him buy it or something, she's there. He conveys to my freind it's his first sportbike or something. My friend warns him to take it easy and that's a serios bike. The kid goes out on to the highway, pulls a stand up wheelie and of course loses it faling off the back. he was okay minus some non lethal hide skinning.. but.. there you have it, another example of big head soft ass. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 16:59:34 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX Cc: "pattonme@XXXXXX" , "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:07:53 -0500 On the other hand, there are a number of people who do buy the cbr as their first bike and have the same type of boo-boo's that they would have on an ex500. There are some people who aren't calculated enough to concieve they have slight accidents on their pretty new expensive bikes, and even when you tell them, they dont' care. So hey if they want the cbr 600... it's not exactly a death trap.. a lot of people learn to ride on them especially women. Of course everyone has their booboo's wether it be me on my first bike ex250 or them on their cbr 600's. the difference is the paid about 10 times more than I did to send a motorcycle down on the pavement. but hey that's their perrogative if they can afford it. and further up the arm on the othe hand, my 2nd and 3rd bikes still manage to see the pavement, so maybe they are just skipping step one. still their perrogative. does a ex500 provide more margin for error? yes. Is it a better (cheaper) learning bike? yes. can people learn the knowledge portion of riding before they get on a bike and then ride a cbr 600 carefully? yes. A lot of people want their first bike for poser value anyway. They'd drive the cbr just as slow as the ex500 an make it virtually the same thing. Just playing devils advocate I guess. I always tell people their first bike and the bike they love should never be the same thing. there is no perfect 1st bike that will be a persons one and only bike. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 17:11:08 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: vfr swing arm? Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:19:27 -0500 |>It often seems that NO parts from one year will fit the same model the next Times have changed. The suzuki gsxr's share a lot of parts from 96-99 and now 2001 on up. The honda f2, f3, share a lot of parts, and some minor parts even on the F4. The kaw zx6r, zx9r share some parts as well. Now i'm wondering if one could put the vfr swing arm on some other frames :) it would look very trick.. Given the general ease of swng arm dismounting and mounting.. if i had the opertunity I might give it a go... but i won't have the oppertunity. Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 17:25:43 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: matthew patton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:34:02 -0500 |>Correct technique is the key. Wrong technique was your problem. And the braking thread begins! I KNOW they don't teach you to cover the front brake while you're on the throttle in the MSF class. right? The problem with covering the front brake and being on the gas is just what happened to me, in an emergency your instinct is to just grab the front brake, because normally when one grabs the front brake they are already off the throttle. When you set your hand to grab the front brake your brain is already thinking it already let go fo the throttle. In an emergency your brain doesn't take time to do double checks of what your habbit already is. That's equivelent to telling new automobile drivers to cover the brake with their left foot and use the gas with thier rifght foot. What you find is 2 things: 1. a new driver doing burn outs running into objects. 2. people driving with their brake lights on. Oh and let's not forget the "stop or go" mentality and the lack of the "coasting" factor to maintain distances. God those accellerate or brake drivers suck. If you have to question wether you will need to use the front brake, you should slow down to a speed where you have time to let go of the accellerator and then use the front brake safely. You don't want to put yourself into a possition of possibly using the front brake and be on the gas at the same out of instinct to slow down because of a sitation arises. So all that "you're not doing it right" "cover the front brake and gas" is just hooey. Let's take a poll: Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake while your'e on the gas? Who here recommends that you cover the brake only after you are off the gas? Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:01:00 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:12:13 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Wayne Edelen Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread At 05:34 PM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote: >Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake >while your'e on the gas? I cover my brake when on the gas. I've also panic stopped in this situation and *MY INSTINCT* is to close the throttle and apply the brake. Work on it in a parking lot, you'll get it with some practice (it's almost as natural as using your rear brake!) ;-) -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:07:04 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX Cc: , , Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:15:23 -0500 scooter wrote: ------------------------------- maybe someone will get the point. As to the people "sharing" your lane to pass, it's up to you. Half the time they're too busy yakking on the phone to even realize you are there. A good kick to the door will wake them up. But, it might also cause them to swerve into your lane. I usually lay on the horn, give the universal one fingered salute and then shake my head at the idiots. ------------- Now see i would never kick a car from my moving bike. Too much chance to make me crash on my own and possibly be witnesses.. What I would do is [CENSORED] and then [CENSORED]! Danny From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:07:39 2002 Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:07:37 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Purdy Subject: RE: Whiskey To: jmstrang@XXXXXX, GBruhl@XXXXXX, pltrgyst@XXXXXX Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX >>Ummm... Bourbon IS Whiskey. >Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose >plural I was using; the cointext was scotch tastings. >Gets confusing when the plurals are the same, doesn't >it? That's why, when referring to whiskey, most trade >writers use the plural "whiskeys" to maintain the >distinction. Are you seriously trying to say that the two words mean something different? I suppose that "color" and "colour" are different too. According to the folks at Merriam-Webster the two words mean the same thing. (Also, according to those same folks the plural of "whiskey" is "whiskeys" and the plural of "whisky" is "whiskies"). Please tell me what source defines the difference. Did I miss that by not taking my local Yuppie indoctrination or was that in the popular "101 Ways to PROVE you are Better Than the Jonses" -- Jeremy Purdy '00 Yamaha V-Star Classic __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:08:04 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:06:09 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX CC: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: > Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer heat compramise? > > not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor type of deal much > > like a ball cap. Sun in my eyes really sucks. Wait until that cute sun visor catchs the breeze while your doing warp 3 and you may learn the true meaning of suckage. Bill From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:17:36 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:15:46 -0500 From: "William J. Huson" To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX CC: matthew patton , dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote: > So all that "you're not doing it right" "cover the front brake and > gas" is just hooey. Let's take a poll: > > Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake > while your'e on the gas? Not me. Use all four fingers. I recomend covering the clutch and brakes (front and rear) when approaching a dicey situation, such as an intersection. > Who here recommends that you cover the brake only after you are > off the gas? Covering brakes has nothing to do with gason/gasoff. One covers when a possible hazardous situation comes into view. Bill From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:22:40 2002 From: "Paul Wilson" To: "Wayne Edelen" Cc: "dc-cycles list" Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:22:32 -0500 As Wayne says cover, that is, not necessarily *around* the lever, but certainly *near* it as in on top of it to cut reaction time. As your fingers curl around the lever to squeeze, you will automatically roll off the throttle. Pridmore (and surely others) teaches this technique to promote smooth throttle/brake transitions. You can begin to brake as you simultaneously roll off the throttle. What you're doing is simultaneously braking with the engine and the front brake (and rear too if you like, but let's leave that alone for now!) Actually, that's another case for going easy on the rear brake. Your engine is already applying braking force and, therefore, making substantial withdrawals from your rear tire's account at the Bank of Traction. You don't need to wait until the throttle snaps shut before you apply the brake. You're wasting valuable time and lengthening your stopping distance if you do that in a maximum braking situation. When I say cover it, I certainly don't mean all the time, just in heavy traffic or in other potentially hairy situations. Paul in DC 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Edelen" To: Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 6:12 PM Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread > At 05:34 PM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote: > >Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake > >while your'e on the gas? > > I cover my brake when on the gas. I've also panic stopped in this > situation and *MY INSTINCT* is to close the throttle and apply the brake. > > Work on it in a parking lot, you'll get it with some practice (it's almost > as natural as using your rear brake!) ;-) > > -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/ > From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:37:24 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:40:52 -0500 From: Larry Meyer To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" Subject: Re: Boxer Bill You mean you wouldn't believe that of Barbara Boxer??? Kudos to the perpetrators for picking the right legislator. Mark Kitchell wrote: >you guys are gulible! > > >--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" >wrote: > >>The MSF is advocating for this kind of >>legislation??? What a bunch of crap. Just what we >>need ... more f---ing safety-crats. I think the MSF >>does a great thing teaching people how to ride >>motorcycles. But they ought to keep their noses out >>of legislation. >> From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:38:58 2002 From: "Dave Yates" Cc: "'dc-cycles list'" Subject: RE: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:11:33 -0500 Paul Posted As Wayne says cover, that is, not necessarily *around* the lever, but certainly *near* it as in on top of it to cut reaction time. As your fingers curl around the lever to squeeze, you will automatically roll off the throttle. Think of this as the opposite of a drag race. Whereas a drag race is often won/lost in the 60', likewise panic braking moves are often won or lost in the 1st few tenths of a second... If you've got a fist full of throttle, even if you're going slowly, you're losing precious fractions of a second transitioning from the grip to the lever. Lockups tend to occur under stress because the initial 'bite' on the lever overcomes available traction. A smooth, steady, quick & firm pull on the (brake) lever, applying gradually more pressure up to the threshold of traction is the key here, and as the object ahead looms larger & LARGER, your brain is saying "MUST S T O P N O O O O O W W W W W ! ! ! ! !" ... Pridmore (and surely others) teaches this technique to promote smooth throttle/brake transitions. You can begin to brake as you simultaneously roll off the throttle. What you're doing is simultaneously braking with the engine and the front brake (and rear too if you like, but let's leave that alone for now!) Actually, that's another case for going easy on the rear brake. Your engine is already applying braking force and, therefore, making substantial withdrawals from your rear tire's account at the Bank of Traction. You don't need to wait until the throttle snaps shut before you apply the brake. You're wasting valuable time and lengthening your stopping distance if you do that in a maximum braking situation. Good analogy. When I say cover it, I certainly don't mean all the time, just in heavy traffic or in other potentially hairy situations. Just remember this - when that strato-lounger comes bouncing off the pickup in front of you on the beltway, Just how prepared do you want to be - Posing with one hand on the clip ons, looking cool to all those you pass, or both hands on the clip ons, while covering the front brake ???? The need for covering the brake(s) is somewhere between all the time & when it's needed... Dave Yates '90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus' LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend' http://www.radix.net/~sdave/ From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 18:43:45 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:44:42 -0500 To: Jeremy Purdy , jmstrang@XXXXXX, GBruhl@XXXXXX From: Larry Larson Subject: RE: Whiskey Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX At 06:07 PM 4/1/2002, Jeremy Purdy wrote: > >Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose > >plural I was using; .... > >Are you seriously trying to say that the two words >mean something different? Yes, they are. "Whisky" is generally used in the trade and in publications to refer only to Scotch whisky, and some Canadian whisky. All others are referred to as "whiskey". -- Larry From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 19:42:43 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:45:02 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Bruce Brownlee Subject: Dichotomy bruce, casting out a line opines: am i the only one that is having trouble figuring out the opposing arguements between: lane filtering: f**k'em, they'll figure it out. i'm not hurting them any. they ought to by a bike (leave ME alone) and salesmen need big brother: people should not be allowed buy a bike they arent qualified for... (keep an eye on THEM) i think we have invented a 'big brother who is libertarian'..... but as usual, the riders are right, its everyone ELSE thats fubar.... From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 20:59:55 2002 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:58:43 -0500 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX From: Rob Winters Subject: RE: Whiskey Count on The Straight Dope to get yer whiskies and bourbons straight! ;-) /// Rob P.S. Left over from the Burns Supper: Glenmorangie 10, Glenmorangie Port Wood 12, MacAllan 12, MacAllan 1983 (mmmm...), Islay Dew, Speyburn 10, Glen Keith 10, and BlackAdder's Single Campbeltown 1991. I don't get out much. 8-) At 06:44 PM 4/1/2002, Larry Larson wrote: >At 06:07 PM 4/1/2002, Jeremy Purdy wrote: > >> >Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose >> >plural I was using; .... >> >>Are you seriously trying to say that the two words >>mean something different? > >Yes, they are. "Whisky" is generally used in the trade >and in publications to refer only to Scotch whisky, and >some Canadian whisky. All others are referred to as >"whiskey". > > >-- Larry From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 23:45:57 2002 From: "mobacc" To: "DC-Cycles" Subject: Quasimoto -- Bugs and hops Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:37:00 -0500 Hmmm. Taking a chance here, but what promises to be a first-time-DC fun event is on tap the next few days. Having been incurably bitten by a jitterbug at an immature age I find myself lindy-hopping at local venues where a few bikes pop up now and then. So, for any interested in East Coast Swing Dancing (big band '40s-'50s style) the schedule is at http://www.dclindyexchange.org/ . There are couple of daytime outdoor flings: Events are generally sans alcohol (but thirsts come on fast). Dress is slacks through zoots/suspenders. Because substantial out-of-town groups are expected early arrivals may benefit. Questions addressed offlist. Congratulations Terps! Bill S. / DC '99 VN750 --> Need different tires for Lindyhop Join the AMA. Help protect my riding fun. From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr 1 23:52:23 2002 From: "Rob Curtis" To: "'Bruce Brownlee'" , Subject: RE: Dichotomy Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:52:22 -0500 That is far too perverse an insight for me this late at night. But, I will add that if our Big Brother rides, would he be wearing a helmet? Robby C. -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Brownlee [mailto:brownlee_b@XXXXXX] Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 19:45 To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Dichotomy bruce, casting out a line opines: am i the only one that is having trouble figuring out the opposing arguements between: lane filtering: f**k'em, they'll figure it out. i'm not hurting them any. they ought to by a bike (leave ME alone) and salesmen need big brother: people should not be allowed buy a bike they arent qualified for... (keep an eye on THEM) i think we have invented a 'big brother who is libertarian'..... but as usual, the riders are right, its everyone ELSE thats fubar.... From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr 2 00:04:09 2002 From: "Anita L." To: Subject: Ride This Weekend? Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:15:06 -0500 Hmm.. am I allowed to post about riding on this list? :-) Anyhow, the weather hasn't been cooperating lately.. and I'm really itching to get out and ride. Any events going on this weekend? Or anyone interested in a very leisurely paced ride (still getting used to the new bike) around VA on either Saturday or Sunday? Drop me a line if you're interested and maybe we can put something together. Now back to your regular scheduled flame-fest... :-) Anita '02 BMW R1150R '96 GPZ1100 (for sale) '00 Blaster (for sale) From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr 2 01:55:44 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: "Ricardo Pontes" Cc: "Dccycles" Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:04:07 -0500 |>There should be lisences for every size of bike. 50cc, 250, 500, 600, 1000, |>1200+. Gradually getting all the licenses to get to the heavy bikes. every size? 50, 70, 80, 125, 250, 350, 450, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750, 800, 850? 900, 929, 950, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300. whever else i left out. How do you qualify the difference? (that someone is able to ride a 750 but not 900 for instance). A 600 CC rider can often enough out run a 1300 bike, if the rider has the skills. a 600's top speed is about 150 mph and a 1300 is about 190 mph. Regulating bikes for that difference of 40 mph top end is ridiculous. If you're capable of riding a bike that can go 150 mph, you might as well be considered capable of going just as fast on a bike twice the engine size. I've ridden a 600 mostly, a 750 a number of times, a 900 a few times and a 1300 once. It seems pretty much apparent to me that once you know how to ride a 600 in an intelligent manner, you can ride just about anything in an intelligent manner. I often see friends switching bikes, R6's to busa's, katana to R1, so their buddy's can get a feel for how the bike rides. They all come back safe and sound. I also know of an instance where a person was a custom bike mechanic and regularly raced hiyabusas, kill himself on an 80 cc dirtbike. (he had a heart attack while riding, loss control and hit a brick wall, without wearing proper safety gear) So even the smallest bike can kill people who are qualified to ride some of the fastest. Basicly, if you can safely operate a bike, you can safely operate a bike. If you unsafely operate a bike, you can kill yourself and harm others on any size bike. CC class liscensing would be just beauracracy. The good thing about motorcycles is that the riders that do stupid things are the ones who are subject to the consequences. No law needed, darwins law is in effect and can't be rescinded. Danny From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr 2 02:32:08 2002 From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX To: matthew patton Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX Subject: Re: bloody salesmen Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:40:31 -0500 On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:31:45 -0800 (PST), you wrote: |>Tom Gimer opined: |>> 1. your mouth. if i was that salesman, i would have had |>> no qualms telling you to shut your trap. you probably just |>> took food out of his kids' mouths. |> |>He wasn't married. Or at least wasn't wearing a ring to indicate such. Unfortunately marriage and parenthood are completely independant of each other. The statement was about food out of kids mouths, not a wifes. I wonder what perecent of parents are married. Unfortunately marriage is not a neccessity to bear children. I happen to think both sides are an exageration. The rider probably woudln't kill herself, and no kid would starve, if either of you were right. FWIW I agree with Tom in a less abrassive manner though heh heh. |>> 2. your theory. any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot |>> can easily kill him/her. the relevant factor here is the |>> respect given the machine by its owner. you cannot make |>> valid, blanket statements about machines... |> |>No, but I damn well can provide some reasonable input when I happen to |>be in the neighborhood. The customer was completely and utterly |>clueless. All she had was a vague desire to "ride a motorcycle." For |>who knows what reasons. She was way too short to deal with the F4 |>seat-height not to mention the "break your wrists" forward leaning So they don't make dogbones for F4's ? Short people don't ride F4's ? I know this young lady who is on a 929 or 954 honda. You better save her quick! Hey if that's the bike (cbr600) she wanted for slow riding poser value, that's her right. She could just as easily harm herself on the ex500. |>like you do and the torture rack model no less. Sure I'm asking too |>much of sales droids to actually give a rat's ass or be in any way NOT |>an absolute bottom-line, separate them from their cash and to hell with |>the consequences, sort of person. In car dealerships it's not very Well it seems like you didn't give the salesman too much of an oppertunity to get all his views out either. From yoru story it seems like you immediately cut in and took over. The salesman may happen to believe like a lot of people believe (and others demonstrate) that a new female rider can handle a cbr 600. I'm thinking if she's mid 30's she's probably mature enough not to go trying to wheelie on her first ride, and the cbr woudl be ok for her. |>common to confront a person who doesn't have the first damn clue about |>the operation of a vehicle. You find that in bike shops all of the |>time. And people walk into dealerships thinking that the sales dude is |>a trustworthy, authoritative source on all things 2-wheeled. Hah!! Some do, some don't. I know a new rider who works at freestate in parts, and I know a bike sales guy who races and does awsome stunts on his zx12. |>> in any event, its a cbr600. there ain't a more user |>> friendly bike on the market. |> |>Like hell! User friendly to you or anybody else who just so happens to |>be used to riding a 100HP missile purhaps, and has considerable riding |>experience under the belt. Maybe you were weaned on 60HP bikes when you |>were five but really Tom, how much have you rubbed shoulders with |>people not even taking their first steps in the area of motorized 2 |>wheeled transport? I do and by the dozens. I don't rub their sholders, I rub their backs as I often get hugs from them. I think most female riders inside DC and pg county start off in the 600 category, and in fact, the cbr 600. the one or two females that did get ex500's got 600's pretty soon. They make a good case for not needing the 500 and the "you'll want somethign more" theory. personally, my reasons for recommending a used bike for a new rider isnt' safety, it's for learning to care for your bike and making boo-boos. |>I probably wouldn't have gotten a stick up my ass had the guy really |>not had anything suitable on the floor. He had more like 5, count 'em 5 So the sales guy did deal with you! |>beginner bikes. Used bikes are a drag on any dealerhip's floors and he |>had a prime opportunity to sell one and wasn't even close to giving |>them mention, let alone emphasis when even a blind, deaf, mute would |>have known that the CBR was the worst possible solution available. On the other hand you have to consider.. some people want NEW bikes, they feel they can trust the reliability. And on top of that, new bikes are designed better, ride smoother, have better brakes, and lighter weights. it's not exactly evil to own a new bike as your first bike. If a person has the dough, hey go for it. Me personally, I refuse to take the financial hits. I'll wait till someone wrecks one, and rebuild it for at most half the cost. |>I could have really gotten in his craw by mentioning how rediculous his you're scaring me with these refences! |>pricing was and that sales from private parties and other resources |>would yield better results. But I didn't because even I know that would |>be leaping across the line of good manners. might as well leap across it, you're the one who drew the line. Of course some times it's a hasle to go used bike shopping. Especially if you know nothing about isnpecting bikes. Buying a new bike you're fairly certain everything is in new condition. |>As it is, the lady came away vastly better informed both on bikes and |>training and can then help focus her future searches. And she just really? Are you going ot help her shop for used bikes? |>might buy her GS or EX from them. The salesman had plenty of cred left, |>I just "helped" him focus on what he should have been doing from the |>get-go. Man what are we going to do with these guys who don't know what they should be doing and need to learn it from you. Maybe you should start a religion for bike dealership employees. preach them YOUR gospel. |>I am sympathetic to the Libertarian bent of "to hell with people, let |>them make their own choices and reap the consequences and not allow |>gov't to intrude on personal decisions..." Unfortunately the world |>doesn't turn like that. The MC community is composed entirely too much |>with fools and vagabonds of various stripes. "Responsible behavior" on |>a motorcycle is about as accurate as "military intelligence." Whether |>or not we like it, legistation and other action is conta