From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:06:04 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: vfr swing arm?
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:14:14 -0500

|>>  WHY NOT ???
|>
|>Well lets see..... It will not work?
|>
|>The odds of this working at all are slim. The odds of it working well, or
|>safely, far less.
|>
|>There must be a reason to do something, and for this much work and cost it
|>better be a damn good one.
|>John.
|>PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

If memory serves me correctly, putting the vfr swing arm on the RR has
been done before and works.  I don't see why the single sided swing
arm would be too much different as far as mounting concerns.

  And I have to admit, a chromed  Single sided swing arm and wheels
would make a RR look a lot prettier than the standard chromed setup.

plus the bannana seat on the vfr is ugly to anyone who didn't grow up
watching the brady bunch!  <G>

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:06:22 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: vfr swing arm?
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:14:32 -0500

Thanks!

Danny

|>VFR Archives
|>
|>http://search.cs.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/htsearch
|>
|>http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~lists/archive/vfr/200105/msg01724.html
|>
|>
|>___________________________________________
|>
|>     Mike Troutman
|>         http://www.troutman.org
|>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:15:03 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:23:13 -0500

You neglected one safety aspect of filtering. If you filter to the
front, then once traffic is moving again, you have less cars in front
of you to jam on brakes, or be in their blind spot and hit a wrong
turn from the wrong lane in front of you.  If the city street is kind
of empty, you can also put distance on them. That's always good.

|>If it is safety you are worried about then don't
|>filter.  For filtering to be done for the sake of
|>safety, you would have to be the last vehicle in line


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:20:55 2002
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:20:53 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: bloody salesmen
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth of parts on
Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store when a lady
of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and asked,
"so how can I help you?"
"I'm interested in getting a bike."
"As you see we have a number, the selection would depend on a couple of
factors. Would this be your first one?"
"yes"
"Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class."
I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was
headed...
"Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter."
I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
"Have you attended a MSF class?"
"No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say."
(me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and
other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even
look seriously at buying anything."
(her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?"
I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info.
Turning around I point at the next bike in the row.
"Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a Suzuki GS500e.
They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very popular with
women and my students for their riding characteristics and low seat
height. I would put them at the top of your list."

The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these
people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to
their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane?
It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting
right there on the floor collecting dust...

<off soapbox>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:35:39 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Peter Hartzler <pete@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>,
   DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: highway curtesy - was City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:43:22 -0500

Speaking of driver attitudes and keeping left...

I dont know but recently, a lot of cars have been yeilding from the
fast lane for me.  I don't know if it's because they recognize
motorcycles are coming up and they want ot be curteous,
or they want to check out the bikes as they pass, or if it's because
of my red/yellow/blue  triangular headlight prism putting certain
reflective colors in my left headlight and they think i'm a cop.

Anyway what the hell.. I enjoy it.   When I pass I usually raise my
non throttle hand and give them a curteous "thank you" wave.

Speaking of prisms, I put a round green/yellow/bluish  prism in my
friends zx7 and that that bulb now appears bright and good, while the
other bulb seems dim.  Is it possible the prism changes the light wave
to make it "brighter".. or maybe the alignment of his other bulb is
off?

Danny
00 zx6r

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:46:12 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Steven C. Di Pietro" <stevied65@XXXXXX>,
   "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 01:54:22 -0500

|>I envision a day devoted to massive civil disobedience.  Get a bunch of
|>bikes together and aggressively obey the letter of the law, slowing down the
|>traffic by refusing to turn right on red (it is discretionary, statute says

We did that last year on 495.  I think it was every sunday for 4 weeks
in a row.  It didn't help any.

A couple of times in DC cars would pass me (on say NY ave), by taking
up half my lane.  A$$holes.  I'd be maybe near the center and along
comes a car in my lane close enough I could kick or spit on, or fall
into if i had to weave around a pot hole or something.

Should I just shrug it off? or start to strategize?  Or maybe I should
just catch them at the light, and start off by saying  "cool car! is
this a 2002 model?" (to get on their good side and show them i'm not
bitching) and then be like "yea you scared the shit outta me when you
passed me, good think i didn't have to weave around a pot hole" and
maybe they'd get the point?  It's usually some dumb ass in a shiny
type of car who thinks he's cool..

<snip>

|>red.  See below.  Now, be honest, show of hands, how many people *really* do
|>that?  Shortening the yellow increased the take from the red light cameras.

I hope they lengthened the time of red lights, and the time from red
to green switch then. I'd hate to see people hurt because the gov't
got greedy.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 01:53:09 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: re: 2 biggest threats
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:01:20 -0500

1. people who switch lanes without checking their blind spots.
2. people who dont' respect space cushions - all directions

I was riding on either 495 or route 50 and on this 3 lane highway what
was ahead of me?  3 morons riding side by side in a relatively open
traffic area?

What if the car in teh slow lane had something come out onto the
highway and had to weave to his left?  a left sweep domino effect of 3
morons.  If you're not passing, don't drive next to any other vehicle.
I swear. Morons.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 02:14:06 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "AA DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:22:17 -0500

"AA Dc cycles"  Todd? ROTFL.

The only time i've seen lane spltting actually slow cars down,
is when there are so many bikes they sometimes stop in between the
cars, and when the light turns, the cars wait for them all to clear.

But even still that is a rarity, and also the bikes up front should
move extra forward to allow their brotheren to get up front and clear
the cars.

Bikes are only usually a few cars away from the front anyway,  the
ones behind them aren't losing any time and actually get a car legths
distance forward.  Saves gas to creep up (in idle setting) to one car
length than it does to accellerate through it.

I find myself filtering in the MD subburbs more (and selectively) now.
It saves me a little time, affords me some safety by being able to
leave the group of blind lane changing cars, and it starts getting
them used to it happening more often. If they dont' like it, fuck
em,that's their personal problem to deal with.  Just cuz i do
something on my own doesn't mean it actually affects them merely
because they can't.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 02:22:03 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:30:13 -0500

|>braking room or possible escape routes.  Cover your controls and if it's
|>comfortable to you, two fingers on the brake lever and two on the throttle
|>on your right hand to cut reaction time.

I see the potential for a braking thread here.  I heavily recommend
that you do NOT cover the front brake while holding the throttle  One
time I did that and nearly wrecked. a needed quick stop popped up, and
the problem was I hit the front brake but didnt' let go of the
throttle.  Front brake stoppage + rear acclleration = BAD NEWS.
Good thing I let go of the front brake in time.

I actually cover my BACK BRAKE when filtering. because i'm going so
slow 1> it's effective enough   2> if you hit an oil or antifreeze
spot your front wheel won't slip from under you because of that front
brake usage.  You shouldn't be going too fast when filtering anyway.

Oh  yea and I tuck my mirror in when filtering. It really pisses
people off when your mirror slap their mirrors. heh heh.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 02:32:18 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: selling a bike with a lien
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:40:29 -0500

|>How does that work?  If I want to sell my bike, but I
|>need to pay it off first, how does that work????

Contact the lien holder and ask them. I'm sure they must engage in
the same scenario often enough.

If for some reason they were jerks,  one could suggest a legal binding
contract. You provide the buyer with a bill of sale, along with a
written contract promise to provide the title as soon as it becomes
available from the finance company,, and give them possession of the
bike, in exchange for full payment, If they want to do that.  The only
problem though is, find out how long it will take to get your title
from the finance company.   If your price is cheap enough, or the
buyer has the bike fever enough for your bike, they will accept those
terms.

Other than that, get a loan, pay off the bike, sell the bike, repay
the loan.

Good luck.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 02:43:15 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "LindaT." <linda.tanner3@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC-CYCLES" <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: jeep Question
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:51:26 -0500

|>I had a flat tire this morning on my Wrangler (which is for sale, BTW).  It
|>looks like a wood splinter punctured the tread in the sidewall.  Can this be
|>fixed?

I don't think so, so my answer isnt' helpful.  There are some patches
that go inside  Maybe that will work.

I just thought it was odd though, I had a dream the other day that I
owned a red jeep. I never owned one, or wanted to own one. so i
thought it was a funny coinkydink.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 02:47:59 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: interesting question
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:56:11 -0500

I'd sell them the bike.  The problem with our goven't now is that
other people want to protect them some people from themselves when
they dont' need protecting.  They've got their own wisdom, and their
own parents. People are responsible for their own kids and themelves,
and no one esle. You not selling them a bike isn't going to stop them
from doing what they want to do. Sell them the bike if you need it
sold.  Keep the bike if you want to keep it.  But dont' keep yourself
from selling the bike merely because she doesn't know how to ride yet.
People are capable of learning like that. The MSF course hasn't been
around forever.  I learned before the course, but did take teh course
when i could.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 03:01:26 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: interesting question
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:09:34 -0500

|><DJY>  NO.

You communist! :)
|>
|><DJY>  You would be enabling someone to harm themselves & others
|>around them needlessly.  No license, no ride, no sale.

Actually no you aren't. Anyone with hands or feet is already capable
of doing that. A man wiht no arms can kick a bus driver in the head.
So you're not enabling them. " No liscense, no test ride", but sale is
ok. This is america. She can buy it as a lawn ornament. It's her right
to do so.  There is nothing illegal nor immoral about owning anything
you cannot operate (yet).

Better yet dont' give them a test ride. Even liscensed riders fall.
Especially newly liscensed riders.  If they fall on your insurance you
get screwed.  If they want the bike, let them buy it, with 2 copies of
bill of sale,  then take it for a test ride. Come back, and sign the
title over to them. If they dont' want to buy it, refund the money if
it's returned in the same condition.  That way if someone gets hurt,
legally they were the new owners and their insurance covers it. You
get documents to support that.  Most insruance policies provide
coverage for newly purchased vehicles if they already have an insured
vehicle.

It's pretty darn negative and insulting to assume this lady is going
to be a law breaker. Whatever happened to innocent until proving
guilty and treating people fairly. She has every right to buy the
bike.

|> No certified
|>check & proof of insurance for said vehicle, no test drive.

Screw the insurance. It's not your job to certify any other citizen is
going to register their vehicle. They may not buy it for road use.
Certified payment and give over posession of the bike. It's their
right. Once you sell the bike, it's their obligation to be law
abiding. And it's not your civic duty to play nosey police officer.

|>It's a short easy class, and anything worth doing, is worth doing
|>right.

I'll agree with that. Tell them to call MSF back 30 days after their
registration period, because a seat will open when someone else is
dropped for non payment.

|>Dave

the communist! <g>

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 03:07:18 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: interesting question
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:15:30 -0500

Sell the bike with cash. liscense or no liscense.

They might have a pick up truck or trailer to get the bike home.
They might go and get plates (no liscense required) and have a
liscensed driver ride it home.

Why assume they are going to do anything illegal. Just strongly
suggest you don't mind selling the bike as long as they are going to
take it home in a legal manner.

Of course you can suggest they do everything legal and they are
financially responsible for thier bike and any damage it could cause.

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 03:22:17 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Dan Matz" <dmatz@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: interesting question
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:30:28 -0500

|>This guy must be tired of his girlfriend. I wouldn't have even considered
|>getting on a streetbike before MSF...  he's wacked..

LOL ask her if her gentleman friend recently put a life insurance
policy on her ROTFL.

|>In response to the question, hell no would I sell a bike to somebody who
|>couldn't ride..  but then I get skittish and overprotective when people look
|>at my bikes crosseyed...  :) (i'm sorry, they're my children, i care)
|>
|>Ben

I look at my bikes as financial investments..  I will find a ride home
if you want ot buy it right now and give me enough profit.  It's just
a replace-able performance machine.  It makes it a lot easier to
stomach on those misfortunate times when it goes down.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 03:43:15 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: flat tire
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:51:27 -0500

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:30:01 -0500, you wrote:
|>BTW, does 50$ per tire change sound reasonable to anyone? Are there any
|>shops who do it cheaper. I got mine changed at heysers.
|>

You should get a prize for being heysers 100,000th victim!

I think cycle accessories in gaithersburg is known for giving good
prices, and GRD in southern maryland.  I do my own tire changes.
I have used leon's secret of a bumper jack on my last tire change.
I also think maybe the dirt shop aka cylce accesssories in college
park might do it too.

Since it was my first time using that method it was a real PIA and
I scratched my rim, but it' ok, it was a learning experience and
I'll just polish the lips anyway.

So now my two questions now are:
1. has anyone perfected the bumper jack method and can list the exact
steps.
2. Has anyone perfected it so that I don't scratch wheels up?


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 03:49:15 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: SBave@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: flat tire
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:57:27 -0500

 I  plug it and go. I've been through curves on a flat rear tire on
ocassions and it can be wobbly but nothing that makes me think i'd
wreck. Just ride to the gas station and plug it. And be back on my
merry way.  Some times even a plug would come out, but it's the same
thng. no big deal. replug it and use glue this time.

Can I have your good tread one hole puncture tires?

btw I think most of the times you see the videos of guys doing burn
outs, they are using puncture fixed tires.

Danny

|>  My non-expert opinion is you only have 2 tires so why risk it? I know there
|>are plenty of people who have successfully plugged a tire but for a little
|>more that $100 you can have a new one. And that's much cheaper than plastic
|>and hospital bills. And lately I would know how expensive that is...   :)
|>
|>Steve Broadstreet
|>ZX-9


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 06:05:43 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 06:13:56 -0500

Can someone tell me the difference between the two helmets?

on the dc city streets  you'll see both dual sport riders and
sportbike riders (as well as the rest).

So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a
PLONK right?  what's the deal?

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 07:45:13 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:43:22 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet

I recall full face dirt bike helmets with cutouts (reliefs) below the
ears.  This was supposed to prevent a broken clavacle if one's head got
wonked to the side.  The lower part of the helmet would impact the
shoulder and el cracko.

Bill

daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> Can someone tell me the difference between the two helmets?
>
> on the dc city streets  you'll see both dual sport riders and
> sportbike riders (as well as the rest).
>
> So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a
> PLONK right?  what's the deal?


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 07:53:47 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:51:58 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen

Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you
or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray.

Salesmen/women aren't social service workers.  Their goal is to get the
money.   And on the flip side, having been on the sales end, far more
people won't listen to reason anyway.  They *want* a particular ride, and
no amount of cajoling will change their mind.

Example:  One of the patent examiners caught up to me on Friday.  HEY, I
got a bike!  Cool, sez me, what kind?  A Habasuyu!  *EEK*   But I've ridden
before, he sez - yeah, more'n a dacade before and his previous big bore was
400.  And the salemen did try to talk him down in size, but given the
choice of selling the bike or seeing the money walk, the bike got sold.

Bill

matthew patton wrote:

> I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth of parts on
> Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store when a lady
> of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and asked,
> "so how can I help you?"
> "I'm interested in getting a bike."
> "As you see we have a number, the selection would depend on a couple of
> factors. Would this be your first one?"
> "yes"
> "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class."
> I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was
> headed...
> "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter."
> I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
> "Have you attended a MSF class?"
> "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say."
> (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and
> other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even
> look seriously at buying anything."
> (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?"
> I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info.
> Turning around I point at the next bike in the row.
> "Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a Suzuki GS500e.
> They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very popular with
> women and my students for their riding characteristics and low seat
> height. I would put them at the top of your list."
>
> The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these
> people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to
> their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane?
> It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting
> right there on the floor collecting dust...
>
> <off soapbox>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 08:44:36 2002
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:41:57 -0500


Im in a forum group called www.r1-forum.com and there is this guy there who
just bought a brand new 2002 r1, as his first bike. The salespeople
recommended he get that one! :)

His first post to the group was "I just crashed my R1". He had it about 1
week before he decided to do a "monster wheelie". Apparently he wrecked the
bike. But the thing is, that it was recommended by the salespeople because
he had a bit of dirt bike experience.

Did they recommend the ex500 and gs500e? Or did you recommend those? If they
did recommend those bikes as beginner bikes, i can agree with that. I think
they were meant for people just starting out, right? They are real nice
bikes.

Ricardo
www.pileofgarbage.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 08:48:26 2002
From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject:
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:47:37 -0500

I just love riding on paint... especially greasy, wet paint.  The greasier
the paint is the easier you slide when you loose traction.  Less friction,
less wear and tear on self and parts. :0


>I seem to recall that in downtown Tokyo there is a painted area at
>intersections just for motorcycles to filter in to.  Whatever you may think
>about the Japanese, this to me seems like an excellent idea.  Cars know
that
>bikes WILL filter and are prepared for it.  Bikes will filter much more
>safely than if they were breaking the rules.




From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 08:55:26 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:55:19 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen

Rico relayed -

Im in a forum group called www.r1-forum.com and there is this guy
there who just bought a brand new 2002 r1, as his first bike. The
salespeople recommended he get that one! :)

His first post to the group was "I just crashed my R1". He had it
about 1 week before he decided to do a "monster wheelie".

  <DJY>  On one hand, I say, 'more power to 'im'  It's his money,
it's his driving record, insurance rates, life etc...  OTOH, I think
it's a bit irresponsible to reccomend someone buy a liter bike
without some kind of street bike experience...
That's a bit of a sticky wicket though...  One can successfully argue
that the Ford Explosion & Chebby Suburbanite are far more lethal, and
dangerous to the public in general ...
Ah well...  What are we going to do ?

Dave


--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 09:26:57 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500

If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her
endorsement-wise and vice versa.  I always make a point of stating that out
to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go
to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>

> "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter."
> I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
> "Have you attended a MSF class?"
> "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they say."
> (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in Fredericksburg and
> other places are not so busy. You should take the class before you even
> look seriously at buying anything."
> (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?"
> I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county sign-up info.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 09:30:08 2002
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:30:01 -0500
To: "pattonme@XXXXXX" <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

One word: COMMISSION.  He sells a more expensive bike and he makes more money.  That's his incentive, plain and simple.  Like a lot of salesman, all he really cares about is the sale and how much money he's going to make.  Probably doesn't have a clue about trying to make the customer a long-term, life-long customer.  And he's certainly not responsible for responsibility.

Caveat emptor.

Original Message: <SNIP>

The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these
people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to
their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane?
It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no less) sitting
right there on the floor collecting dust...

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 09:33:20 2002
Date: Mon,  1 Apr 2002 09:33:19 -0500
From: "Chris Norloff" <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
To: "List-dc cycles"  <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win

Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win

An attempt by Allstate to eliminate motorcyclists from medical payment coverage went down in defeat in the case of a young passenger on a bike.

http://www.virginiawind.com/news/02mar17.htm

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 09:54:57 2002
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 09:43:14 -0500

I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about if someone
is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to MD?
Does that endorsement transfer?  (asking for a friend)

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500

If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her
endorsement-wise and vice versa.  I always make a point of stating that out
to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go
to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 09:57:17 2002
From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'lgranato@XXXXXX'" <lgranato@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Did you sell your Bike?
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:56:25 -0500

Do you solemnly swear (or affirm) that the below statement is indeed fact.
Ever, Never Ever?  Never Ever Ever??  Never Ever Ever Ever???

As far as the loss of your first M/C...  and all the tender loving care you
poured into it.  I had that same feeling once, many moons ago.   I prepped
up a GS750...  all the old crappy OEM stuff was gone and replaced with high
grade component.  Well for some reason or another I decided to sell and I
did....  the goof (licensed I might add) I sold it to, hit some sand on a
left turn (early spring jaunt) pulled a slider, broke his wrist and ankle
and had the bike towed to a lot which I passed every day on the way to work!


Now I just hang on to them hence the 78 R80/7



>That's the problem, boy!!!! I'm not getting another
>one...I will no longer own a street bike, and I am not
>buying another one...



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:02:46 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:02:21 -0500

My motorcycle endorsement has traveled with me from state to state since
1984.

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Keiser [mailto:robkeiser@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:43 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
>
>
> I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about
> if someone
> is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then
> moves to MD?
> Does that endorsement transfer?  (asking for a friend)
>
> Rob
> '98 VFR800
>
>
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
> To: "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500
>
> If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her
> endorsement-wise and vice versa.  I always make a point of
> stating that out
> to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go
> to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>


#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################
#####
#####
#####
#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:03:55 2002
To: GBruhl@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Did you sell your Bike?
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 07:03:46 -0800 (PST)

"Bruhl, George LT" wrote

I sold it...the first guy that came to look at her was
standing in a pile of his own drool...we'll see if it
actually works out...he didn't tell his wife he was
buying the bike, but I haven't heard back from him, so
it must be ok.

He seemed like a decent guy, so hopefully he'll take
good care of her and have fun with her.  He's picking
her up next week, so I have another week before I have
to say goodbye.

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
http://www.peoplepc.com

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:09:33 2002
From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Rob Keiser'" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>,
   "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)"
	 <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:08:36 -0500


>what about if someone
>is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to MD?

>Does that endorsement transfer?

Rob,

As long as the person already has the "M" on their license it will transfer.
Not sure about nationally but around here you should get exactly what you
had in the other state, as long as nothing is suspended, expired or revoked.


As with any other MVA transaction be sure to triple-check everything before
leaving the counter. DC forgot to transfer my motorcycle endorsement when I
turned my MD license in for a DC one (on the next visit DC turned me into a
man, they are truly on the ball there!), and a friend had his ommitted when
moving from MD to VA.  If this is the case and you have not left the
premises yet you just go back and ask them to fix it.  If you have left,
you're possibly in trouble!

cheers,

patti

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:17:56 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:18:57 -0500

Endorsements should transfer between VA and MD without a problem.  Just make
sure the DMV clerk recognizes you have the endorsement and it shows up on
your new license.  Some states may have reciprocity issues.  The MSF website
has a chart showing reciprocity state by state.  www.msf-usa.org

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen


> I knew that this was the case for the MSF class, but what about if someone
> is already Motorcycle Endorsed on their license in VA and then moves to
MD?
> Does that endorsement transfer?  (asking for a friend)
>
> Rob
> '98 VFR800
>
>
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
> To: "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:27:57 -0500
>
> If she lives in Maryland, taking MSF in Virginia isn't going to help her
> endorsement-wise and vice versa.  I always make a point of stating that
out
> to out-of-state people so they don't have any rude awakenings when they go
> to their home state DMV expecting to bypass the riding test.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:26:43 2002
Subject: RE: RE: bloody salesmen
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:26:41 -0500
To: "jmstrang@XXXXXX" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Putting a little "M" sticker on your license yourself does not count as an endorsement! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:02:21 -0500
To: robkeiser@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen


My motorcycle endorsement has traveled with me from state to state since
1984.

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:39:14 2002
Subject: RE: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:39:13 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

I know Tom McGrath.  Good guy.  Avid motorcyclist.  And definitely a good lawyer to have if you're involved in a m/c accident (in VA anyway, don't know if he handles cases outside of the Commonwealth).

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chris Norloff cnorloff@XXXXXX
Date: Mon,  1 Apr 2002 09:33:19 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win


Allstate Loses - Motorcyclists Win

An attempt by Allstate to eliminate motorcyclists from medical payment coverage went down in defeat in the case of a young passenger on a bike.

http://www.virginiawind.com/news/02mar17.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 10:51:28 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 10:50:41 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies
To: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>, <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <stevied65@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Well....see now, that was the problem.  You did it on a Sunday when there's a lot less traffic.  You need to do it on a Monday for 4 weeks in a row and THEN maybe someone will get the point.  As to the people "sharing" your lane to pass, it's up to you.  Half the time they're too busy yakking on the phone to even realize you are there.  A good kick to the door will wake them up.  But, it might also cause them to swerve into your lane.  I usually lay on the horn, give the universal one fingered salute and then shake my head at the idiots.

Scooter
In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002  1:46:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

> |>I envision a day devoted to massive civil disobedience.  Get a bunch of
> |>bikes together and aggressively obey the letter of the law, slowing down the
> |>traffic by refusing to turn right on red (it is discretionary, statute says
>
> We did that last year on 495.  I think it was every sunday for 4 weeks
> in a row.  It didn't help any.
>
> A couple of times in DC cars would pass me (on say NY ave), by taking
> up half my lane.  A$$holes.  I'd be maybe near the center and along
> comes a car in my lane close enough I could kick or spit on, or fall
> into if i had to weave around a pot hole or something.
>
> Should I just shrug it off? or start to strategize?  Or maybe I should
> just catch them at the light, and start off by saying  "cool car! is
> this a 2002 model?" (to get on their good side and show them i'm not
> bitching) and then be like "yea you scared the shit outta me when you
> passed me, good think i didn't have to weave around a pot hole" and
> maybe they'd get the point?  It's usually some dumb ass in a shiny
> type of car who thinks he's cool..
>
> <snip>
>
> |>red.  See below.  Now, be honest, show of hands, how many people *really* do
> |>that?  Shortening the yellow increased the take from the red light cameras.
>
> I hope they lengthened the time of red lights, and the time from red
> to green switch then. I'd hate to see people hurt because the gov't
> got greedy.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:25:44 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:25:14 EST
Subject: Re: vfr swing arm?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 1:05:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

> If memory serves me correctly, putting the vfr swing arm on the RR has
>  been done before and works.

If so NEAT!

>  I don't see why the single sided swing
>  arm would be too much different as far as mounting concerns.

It often seems that NO parts from one year will fit the same model the next
year, so the idea of major parts from one model fitting another is stunning.
A swing arm is a complex piece of engineering and to go from double to single
sided with length, sprockets lining up, bolt and bearing sizes etc. being the
same would be amazing to me.
(but of course pistons from the first TM125 Suzuki would fit the first CR125
Honda with a little grinding on the skirt. So stranger things have happened.)


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:32:35 2002
From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Ducati 996
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:21:19 -0500

Hi all,

I have been away from the list for about two years now. Decided to come back
as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new 2001 Ducati 996.
Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea? I really wanted to get a used
996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be many good deals on one. The 2001s come
with two years of free service, which I am told is a pretty good deal. I am
making my trip to the dealer tomorrow.

Would like to hear from any current 996 or Ducati owners also. Oh I used to
own a Yamaha YZF 600.
Thanks
Sanath


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:35:33 2002
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:35:12 -0500
Subject: Chain tightening
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_000_01C1D99B.31E16D60

Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success
getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction.  I have tried on 3 occasions,
and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack
quickly.
Any advice would be great.
TIA,
Mike

fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:37:58 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
   "matthew patton" <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:29:37 -0500

A CBR 600?  Heck, they had a CBR1100XX on the floor the last time I was
there.  It could've been worse.  Better yet sell them a new Triumph and
collect the parts mark-up on the (almost inevitable) busted plastic.

I can see both sides of the coin though.

On the one hand dealerships are like restaurants.  They are in business to
satisfy the customer's immediate needs, with food that tastes good, or the
impulse buy of a motorcycle that is all too common.  They are not concerned
with the potential heart attack you're going to have down the road from a
steady diet of their food.  Nor are they in the business of hectoring the
customer about what's "good for them." Caveat emptor.

On the other hand, a more sophisticated approach is what we have experienced
from a software vendor.  I called about a CAD package and the salesman
actually steered me to a lower cost product, saying it was better for our
needs since we'd never use all the bells and whistles of more expensive
products due to the nature of our business.  Based on what I had read, I was
ready to pull the switch on more expensive software.  While he may have
earned less commission (it's hard to tell actually) he built a better
relationship with the customer because he instilled trust and actually took
the time to understand our needs.  I'm more likely to buy something from him
again.  Being counseled to a higher-priced product that really didn't fit
our needs may very well have soured our relationship.

In the motorcycle and auto sales business, though, there is rarely this sort
of long term commitment to the customer.  Maybe at some BMW places where the
marque's premium image is involved and there is a lot of repeat business and
high-priced OEM-label accessory sales.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>



> Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you
> or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray.
>
> Bill
>
> matthew patton wrote:
>
> > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class."
> > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was
> > headed...
> > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter."
> > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
..
> > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these
> > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to
> > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane?
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:38:12 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:37:33 EST
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 6:06:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

> So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a
>  PLONK right?  what's the deal?

LEGALITY
The dirt bike helmet will (likely) not have the required DOT sticker, and
will not have been tested for street use. Dirt bike helmets will not have a
flip shield, but will have a large opening for goggles. The chin bar (full
face) will be vented (much weaker) and farther from your face to provide air
to a rider that is working harder and going slower (I once ran an enduro with
a full face street style helmet and though I was going to suffocate weaving
in and out of trees.)
There are no doubt other differences.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:49:09 2002
X-EM-APIVersion: 2, 0, 0, 7
From: "Kirk Roy" <kirk@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:48:29 -0500

PenguinBiker@XXXXXX wrote:
> In a message dated 4/1/2002 6:06:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:
>
> > So I was just wondering.. both should protect your head against a
> >  PLONK right?  what's the deal?
>
> LEGALITY
> The dirt bike helmet will (likely) not have the required DOT sticker, and
> will not have been tested for street use.

What? My dirt helmet is DOT (and Snell, actually) tested with stickers and all that. I haven't seen a dirt helmet without a DOT sticker and I buy towards the cheaper end of the helmet aisle...

Kirk


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:56:15 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:56:08 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: re:  Ducati 996


I have been away from the list for about two years now. Decided to
come back as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new 2001
Ducati 996.


   <DJY>  Welcome back !


  Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea?


   <DJY>  Gimer, over to you....


 I really wanted to get a used 996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be
many good deals on one. The 2001s come with two years of free
service, which I am told is a pretty good deal.

  <DJY> Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty good deal' ?


Dave



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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 11:57:19 2002
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:57:17 -0500
To: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" <michael.brocchi@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Mike,

"Right to begin with" should be ~1.5" of slack (your owner's manual should have an exact spec).  A relatively easy adjustment with a center or swingarm stand (even for mechanical newbies).  And it's usually better to err on the side of having a little too much slack rather than not enough.

If it's developing slack after riding, then either the rear wheel isn't bolted in right (i.e., the right torque on the nuts) and it's somehow slipping and/or the adjusters that set the wheel in the swingarm aren't set to keep it in place (i.e, you moved the wheel but not the adjusters).  That's all I can think of.

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 11:35:12 -0500
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: Chain tightening


Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success
getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction.  I have tried on 3 occasions,
and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack
quickly.
Any advice would be great.
TIA,
Mike

fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:03:52 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:03:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Ducati 996
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

>  <DJY> Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty good deal' ?
>
>
> Dave


Dave must not have priced Ducati service lately.....



Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:05:16 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:04:50 -0500

There is a significant chance you are over-tightening the chain.  Since your
600 doesn't have the awe-inspiring, mind-boggling, pavement rippling,
ass-puckering torque of my mighty, mighty 1200...I don't think you're
stretching the chain "normally."  It is pretty easy to have a too tight
chain that getting tighter as the suspension goes through it's travel,
putting excessive stress on wheel and countershaft bearings.

On my Bandit, which should be nearly the same as your 600, if I adjust the
chain 'properly', it tightens up after I tighten up the axle.  I don't know
why, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, but it is very consistent.

So, I adjust the chain with the adjusters, but leave it a couple of "flats"
slack(I count flats on each adjuster nut...you know, how many flat surfaces
I turn by--6 is one complete revolution).  When I tighten the axle nut, it
ends up just right.

Also, if you look at the manual, it says something like, " 1" to 1 1/4" of
slack."  If you are pushing the chain hard at all to get check that spec,
you're probably too tight.

And remember, for m/c chains, too loose is better than too tight.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX [mailto:Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:35 AM
> To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
> Subject: Chain tightening
>
>
> Ever since I got new tires (about a month ago) I have had no real success
> getting my chain tightened to my satisfaction.  I have tried on 3
> occasions,
> and either it's not right to begin with, or it develops a lot of slack
> quickly.
> Any advice would be great.
> TIA,
> Mike
>
> fyi - 2000 suzuki bandit 600 is the bike
>


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:06:03 2002
From: biga@XXXXXX (Andrew Culpepper)
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:06:01 -0500

Also, a chain can develop really loose spots and in extreme cases can
be too tight in spots and too loose in others.  You have to check the
tension at several different points on the chain.

Andrew


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:08:06 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:08:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Ducati 996
To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been away from the list for about two years now.
> Decided to come back
> as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a brand new
> 2001 Ducati 996.
> Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea?

you'll love the bike if you don't mind the riding position

i have a 2000 biposto and would be happy to chat with you
about it....  only difference between the two models (i
believe) is that you'd have the ohlins rear...



> I really
> wanted to get a used
> 996 but there just donM-^Rt seem to be many good deals on
> one. The 2001s come
> with two years of free service, which I am told is a
> pretty good deal. I am
> making my trip to the dealer tomorrow.

you'll likely be very happy you have a 2 year unlimited
mileage warranty.  trust me.  my warranty work easily adds
up to $3k+.  i don't know about "free service".... verify
that they are providing you no-cost scheduled maintenance
for the first two years....



> Would like to hear from any current 996 or Ducati owners
> also. Oh I used to
> own a Yamaha YZF 600.

be prepared for pain in new places.... yzf is a couch
compared to the 996....


--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:12:21 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:12:20 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

> I see the potential for a braking thread here.  I heavily recommend
> that you do NOT cover the front brake while holding the throttle  One
> time I did that and nearly wrecked. a needed quick stop popped up,
> and
> the problem was I hit the front brake but didnt' let go of the
> throttle.  Front brake stoppage + rear acclleration = BAD NEWS.
> Good thing I let go of the front brake in time.

The act of pulling on the lever should have rolled off the throttle
even if you're covering the lever. Covering the lever means you've got
fingers sticking out there ready to pull on the lever, not necessarily
hooked over the lever itself. Since the right thing didn't happen I can
immediately tell that you're riding with your wrist high. The issue
isn't the act of squeezing the brake and keeping the throttle on (the
bike will stop and the gine will bog and stall), but since you're wrist
was high you were adding throttle while also squeezing the brake, hense
the spinning rear.

Correct technique is the key. Wrong technique was your problem.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:24:24 2002
Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:24:00 -0500
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Chuck offered:
If it's developing slack after riding, then either the rear wheel isn't
bolted in right (i.e., the right torque on the nuts) and it's somehow
slipping and/or the adjusters that set the wheel in the swingarm aren't set
to keep it in place (i.e, you moved the wheel but not the adjusters).

How do I assure myself that I am not doing this?  I loosen both the axle
bolt and the adjuster bolts, and have been pulling on the tire.  Is there a
way to make sure that I am actually moving the adjusters and not just the
tire?

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:28:24 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:28:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: re:  Ducati 996
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
>
> I have been away from the list for about two years now.
> Decided to
> come back as I am about plunk down some cash to buy a
> brand new 2001
> Ducati 996.
>
>
>    <DJY>  Welcome back !
>
>
>   Anyone think this is a particularly bad idea?
>
>
>    <DJY>  Gimer, over to you....

actually, as bad as my experience was, i'd still buy
another.  very wierd what these beautiful machines do to
one's thought processes....

just thought of something: are the rocker arms a problem on
the '01 model?  if so, he should be very careful to stay on
top of that issue....



>  I really wanted to get a used 996 but there just donM-^Rt
> seem to be
> many good deals on one. The 2001s come with two years of
> free
> service, which I am told is a pretty good deal.
>
>   <DJY> Curiously, who told you that it was a 'pretty
> good deal' ?

2 years of no-cost scheduled maintenance would have been a
$1000+ bonus for me.  i only secured my first two services
without cost.

sounds like a good deal if he's gonna be putting a lot of
mileage on the thing.....



--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:30:49 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX>, <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:30:23 -0500

You shouldn't have to pull on the tire at all.  After you loosen the lock
nuts several turns, you use the adjusters to force the wheel rear-wards,
tightening the chain.  Then you re-lock the adjusters with the locknuts, and
tighten (torque) the axle nut.

The wheel should stay against the adjusters the entire time.


> How do I assure myself that I am not doing this?  I loosen both the axle
> bolt and the adjuster bolts, and have been pulling on the tire.
> Is there a
> way to make sure that I am actually moving the adjusters and not just the
> tire?


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:33:46 2002
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:18 -0500

This thread has come up at an interesting time for me.  You see, I'm
contemplating getting back into the motorcycle business, and was wondering
what the list impression is of Criswell Power Sports in Gaithersburg.

I haven't seen much, if any, mention of them at all here.  Anyone care to
comment on their experience(s) there, or can say what they need to work on?
Personally, I've never done business with them, but I did do some parts
research there for a used bike my bro once looked at buying.

I say 'getting back into' because I did spend some time at Coleman 5 years
ago and absolutely hated it.  <feel free to flame away>  But in relation to
this thread, I did talk a young kid, hell bent on a sport bike as his first,
out of a 750 and onto a CBR600.  Small moral victory in my book.

Just curious what the general opinion is, that's all.  I haven't committed
to anything there yet, but they are ridiculously close to me and it's worth
checking out.

Thanks.

Rob
'98 VFR800



From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,   "matthew patton"
<pattonme@XXXXXX>
CC: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:29:37 -0500

A CBR 600?  Heck, they had a CBR1100XX on the floor the last time I was
there.  It could've been worse.  Better yet sell them a new Triumph and
collect the parts mark-up on the (almost inevitable) busted plastic.

I can see both sides of the coin though.

On the one hand dealerships are like restaurants.  They are in business to
satisfy the customer's immediate needs, with food that tastes good, or the
impulse buy of a motorcycle that is all too common.  They are not concerned
with the potential heart attack you're going to have down the road from a
steady diet of their food.  Nor are they in the business of hectoring the
customer about what's "good for them." Caveat emptor.

On the other hand, a more sophisticated approach is what we have experienced
from a software vendor.  I called about a CAD package and the salesman
actually steered me to a lower cost product, saying it was better for our
needs since we'd never use all the bells and whistles of more expensive
products due to the nature of our business.  Based on what I had read, I was
ready to pull the switch on more expensive software.  While he may have
earned less commission (it's hard to tell actually) he built a better
relationship with the customer because he instilled trust and actually took
the time to understand our needs.  I'm more likely to buy something from him
again.  Being counseled to a higher-priced product that really didn't fit
our needs may very well have soured our relationship.

In the motorcycle and auto sales business, though, there is rarely this sort
of long term commitment to the customer.  Maybe at some BMW places where the
marque's premium image is involved and there is a lot of repeat business and
high-priced OEM-label accessory sales.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>



 > Consider yourself fortunate that the saleman didn't sic a pit bull on you
 > or blast your interloping butt with pepper spray.
 >
 > Bill
 >
 > matthew patton wrote:
 >
 > > "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class."
 > > I watch him from several paces away curious as to where this was
 > > headed...
 > > "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good starter."
 > > I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
..
 > > The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong with these
 > > people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to own up to
 > > their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2 way sane?
 >



_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:36:10 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 09:36:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

two problems here:

1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
took food out of his kids' mouths.

2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
valid, blanket statements about machines...

in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
friendly bike on the market.



--- matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth
> of parts on
> Sat and was standing around the used/new end of the store
> when a lady
> of mid-30's came in. The sales droid trotted up and
> asked,
> "so how can I help you?"
> "I'm interested in getting a bike."
> "As you see we have a number, the selection would depend
> on a couple of
> factors. Would this be your first one?"
> "yes"
> "Then I guess something no bigger than the 600cc class."
> I watch him from several paces away curious as to where
> this was
> headed...
> "Here we have a 2001 CBR 600F4i, a nice bike, a good
> starter."
> I about go bonkers. I saunter over and pipe in.
> "Have you attended a MSF class?"
> "No, I've heard of it but the lines are really long they
> say."
> (me) "I can't speak to PG county but the classes in
> Fredericksburg and
> other places are not so busy. You should take the class
> before you even
> look seriously at buying anything."
> (her) "Ok, sounds good. Do you have more information?"
> I point to the salesdroid who affirms he has PG county
> sign-up info.
> Turning around I point at the next bike in the row.
> "Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a
> Suzuki GS500e.
> They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very
> popular with
> women and my students for their riding characteristics
> and low seat
> height. I would put them at the top of your list."
>
> The salesdroid is nearby wringing his hands. WTF is wrong
> with these
> people? A CBR?!?!? Why aren't they responsible enough to
> own up to
> their position of "authority" and recommend something 1/2
> way sane?
> It's not like he didn't have suitable machines (used no
> less) sitting
> right there on the floor collecting dust...
>
> <off soapbox>


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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 12:44:37 2002
From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:44:11 EST
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: t_gimer@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX


--part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary



> two problems here:
>
> 1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
> no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
> took food out of his kids' mouths.

Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a violent needless
death?  The kids can skip a meal.  Sorry Gimer...I agree with Patton.  Most
salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes and/or riding.  I've
worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions only.

> 2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
> can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
> respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
> valid, blanket statements about machines...

A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike.  I'm sorry...it just isn't so.

> in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
> friendly bike on the market.

Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when annoyed at that car
in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic.  Face it...in a
perfect world it would be great.  But most people don't pay that much
attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal combination...hp &
inattention.

--part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">two problems here:<BR>
<BR>
1.&nbsp; your mouth.&nbsp; if i was that salesman, i would have had<BR>
no qualms telling you to shut your trap.&nbsp; you probably just<BR>
took food out of his kids' mouths.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a violent needless death?&nbsp; The kids can skip a meal.&nbsp; Sorry Gimer...I agree with Patton.&nbsp; Most salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes and/or riding.&nbsp; I've worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions only.&nbsp; </FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">2.&nbsp; your theory.&nbsp; any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot<BR>
can easily kill him/her.&nbsp; the relevant factor here is the<BR>
respect given the machine by its owner.&nbsp; you cannot make<BR>
valid, blanket statements about machines...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike.&nbsp; I'm sorry...it just isn't so.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">in any event, its a cbr600.&nbsp; there ain't a more user<BR>
friendly bike on the market.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when annoyed at that car in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic.&nbsp; Face it...in a perfect world it would be great.&nbsp; But most people don't pay that much attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal combination...hp &amp; inattention.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_142.c2122d9.29d9f66b_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:21:38 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Boxer Bill
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:22:30 -0500

http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html

Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:24:48 2002
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Boxer Bill
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500

She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible for the safety of
customers" portion

--jon
4/1/02....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: dc-cycles list
> Subject: Boxer Bill
>
>
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:24:56 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:36 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen


>>> "Rob Keiser" wrote SNIP

>was wondering  what the list impression is of Criswell Power Sports in Gaithersburg.

I have been up there a few times, I thought they were supposed to move into a new location and have a multi-vendor dealership. From what I have seen at their current location, behind all the Criswell car dealerships, there are never any customers looking at or buying bikes when I have been there and they have virtually no accessories dept, and all the bikes are packed in a very small space.

I have heard that Criswell is a good organization, but since it is mainly a car dealership business I would wonder about the "car business" mentality.

Are you looking for a sales job there? if that's the case and they are staying in that location I wouldn't do it.

Besides you need to sell Honda's

George






From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:35:23 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:35:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: SKeener2@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- SKeener2@XXXXXX wrote:
>
>
> > two problems here:
> >
> > 1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have
> had
> > no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably
> just
> > took food out of his kids' mouths.
>
> Hmmm...food out of some kids mouth...or somebody dying a
> violent needless death?

if this is really about saving lives, then let's close the
motorcycle shops altogether....

i find it interesting the way you have phrased this as if
it were a news headline about a brutal stabbing on the
street.  this is a dangerous recreational activity and
everyone who walks into a shop knows that....



> The kids can skip a meal.  Sorry Gimer...I agree
> with Patton.  Most
> salesman at bike shops know very little about bikes
> and/or riding.  I've
> worked in one....the sales staff cared about commissions
> only.

apparently this salesman was trying to push the $8k bike,
not the $11k one....

salesmen are salesmen.  just because they're in the
motorcycle industry shouldn't subject them to higher moral
standards, imo.  in a perfect world, perhaps....



> > 2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an
> idiot
> > can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is
> the
> > respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot
> make
> > valid, blanket statements about machines...
>
> A 100hp bike is NOT a beginner bike.  I'm sorry...it just
> isn't so.

i 100hp bike is a better beginner bike than a 140hp bike.
let me be clear, though: i'm not recommending that everyone
go out and purchase a 100hp starter bike.... at the same
time i know plenty of people who could handle such a
machine as their first bike because they already know of
the respect due the machine from the rider which is
required for motorcycles in general.

i started on dirt bikes, then dual purpose, then small
sportbikes....  and that was definitely helpful to me.
however, not everybody has that opportunity, so they try to
find a first bike that they can handle, then grow into.
the cbr600 would seem (to me) to fit that bill.  the f3 was
such a bike, imo.  has the newest model become an
incredibly powerful beast?  i would guess only at or near
redline....



> > in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
> > friendly bike on the market.
>
> Yup...nice...friendly...until you snap the throttle when
> annoyed at that car
> in front of you...and you highside into oncoming traffic.
>  Face it...in a
> perfect world it would be great.  But most people don't
> pay that much
> attention even in a car....on a bike it's a lethal
> combination...hp &
> inattention.

MOTORCYCLES and inattention would seem to be just as lethal
a combination.... "snapping the throttle" in some sort of
rage (quite odd that you have chosen this as the
circumstance in which a newbie on a sportbike would find
himself in trouble) is going to get you in trouble on most
bikes.

motorcyles in general are dangerous in the hands of
newbies..... sportbikes even more so.  but there is no
shock factor for me in a newbie 600 purchase.



--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:36:35 2002
Subject: RE: RE: Chain tightening
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:36:34 -0500
To: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" <michael.brocchi@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

What Jon said.  If you're getting too much slack, use the adjusters to move the wheel back in the swingarm until you have the requisite static slack.  Don't pull the wheel back and then turn the adjusters.  And Jon is also right about losing some of the slack when you tighten up the axcle nuts.  So if the recommended slack is 1-1.25", 1.5" before you tighten the bolts will probably be about right.

One other (remote) possibility is that your chain is just a link or two too long for the sprocket combination you're running.  But I'm more inclined to think that you just don't have the axle adjusters set right and for some reason the wheel is moving forward just wee bit (even with the axle bolts tightened properly.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:30:23 -0500
To: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX, cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Chain tightening


You shouldn't have to pull on the tire at all.  After you loosen the lock
nuts several turns, you use the adjusters to force the wheel rear-wards,
tightening the chain.  Then you re-lock the adjusters with the locknuts, and
tighten (torque) the axle nut.

The wheel should stay against the adjusters the entire time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:39:04 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:36:46 -0600
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill

Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this?

George Cole


>>> "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX> 04/01/02 01:22PM >>>
http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html

Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:42:34 2002
Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:42:33 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

The MSF is advocating for this kind of legislation???  What a bunch of crap.  Just what we need ... more f---ing safety-crats.  I think the MSF does a great thing teaching people how to ride motorcycles.  But they ought to keep their noses out of legislation.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Boxer Bill


She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible for the safety of
customers" portion

--jon
4/1/02....

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM
> To: dc-cycles list
> Subject: Boxer Bill
>
>
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.
>
>

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:43:27 2002
From: "Bruce Norton" <bnorton@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:44:09 -0500

Note the date.


----- Original Message -----
From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>


> Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this?
>
> George Cole
>
>
> >>> "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX> 04/01/02 01:22PM >>>
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:45:31 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:45:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill
To: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

You almost had me. I was writing a long diatribe
against this hag when I realized that today is April
first. Close, but no cigar!!!

:^P

Chris Weaver


--- Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:46:04 2002
Subject: RE: Re: Boxer Bill
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:46:03 -0500
To: "george.cole@XXXXXX" <george.cole@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "pawilson@XXXXXX" <pawilson@XXXXXX>

My bad re my previous post.  This group is not the MSF that we all know and love (except for those of who rely almost exclusively on our front brakes!)  This is the Motorcycle SAFELY Foundation.  And is this for real or some sort of practical joke???

Original Message:
-----------------
From: George Cole George.Cole@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:36:46 -0600
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, pawilson@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill


Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this?

George Cole


>>> "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX> 04/01/02 01:22PM >>>
http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html

Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:46:30 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:46:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

you guys are gulible!


--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> The MSF is advocating for this kind of
> legislation???  What a bunch of crap.  Just what we
> need ... more f---ing safety-crats.  I think the MSF
> does a great thing teaching people how to ride
> motorcycles.  But they ought to keep their noses out
> of legislation.
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: Boxer Bill
>
>
> She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible
> for the safety of
> customers" portion
>
> --jon
> 4/1/02....
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM
> > To: dc-cycles list
> > Subject: Boxer Bill
> >
> >
> > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
> >
> > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled
> today.
> >
> >
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:48:43 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:48:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Peter Hartzler <pete@XXXXXX>
To: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
cc: "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" <michael.brocchi@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Chain tightening
X-Loop-Detect: 1

I've noticed that it matters what angle your wrench is when you torque
down axle bolts.  This because the wrench not only conveys torque, but
also lateral force corresponding to the direction you're pushing the
handle.  You may find that pushing up/down moves the axle fore/aft less
than pushing forward/backward, or that pushing the wrench handle so that
the axle is pushed against the adjuster stops gives you more control, as
opposed to pulling the axle away from the adjuster stop.

Gee, I sure hope that makes sense!

</$.02>

-ph



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:49:30 2002
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Content-return: allowed
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 13:49:10 -0500
Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

All I know is that it has to be an April Fool's joke...
Otherwise and un-motivated person like myself might actually send a letter
to my congressperson

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 13:52:25 2002
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Boxer Bill
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:52:24 -0500
To: "markkitchell@XXXXXX" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Sheepishly ...

OK, I admit to being had.  And just to make sure, I checked Senator Boxer's website and the aforementioned bill was not in the news.

What a tosser!

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 10:46:29 -0800 (PST)
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill


you guys are gulible!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 14:12:20 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 11:12:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Not again! I just read all the people screaming their
heads off over this on the SV650 list, until someone
pointed out that it is was published April 1st.

Keith
--- Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 14:33:04 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: RE: Boxer Bill
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:33:09 -0500

ROTFLMAO!!  Chuck, you ought to know better.  Check out the rest of the web
site.  It is very well done.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>



> you guys are gulible!
>
>
> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > The MSF is advocating for this kind of
> > legislation???  What a bunch of crap.  Just what we
> > need ... more f---ing safety-crats.  I think the MSF
> > does a great thing teaching people how to ride
> > motorcycles.  But they ought to keep their noses out
> > of legislation.
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
> > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: RE: Boxer Bill
> >
> >
> > She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible
> > for the safety of
> > customers" portion
> >
> > --jon
> > 4/1/02....
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM
> > > To: dc-cycles list
> > > Subject: Boxer Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
> > >
> > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled
> > today.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 14:56:47 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 14:56:28 EST
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 12:16:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:

> I felt claustrophic and short of breath just thinking about riding off road
>  in a full face street helmet.

At the time there were no dedicated off road helmets (That I am aware of) Few
of us rode with full face on or off road. I wore a full face helmet when
racing motocross on  an open class bike and it was no problem, motocross is
relatively fast, I got plenty of air. However when I tried enduro with its
much slower speeds I damn near passed out.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 15:10:39 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:10:25 EST
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 1:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

> What a bunch of crap.  Just what we need ... more f---ing safety-crats.

I aggree it is crap.... But I think you should check todays date.



John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 15:31:48 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:31:45 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

Tom Gimer opined:
> 1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
> no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
> took food out of his kids' mouths.

He wasn't married. Or at least wasn't wearing a ring to indicate such.

> 2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
> can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
> respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
> valid, blanket statements about machines...

No, but I damn well can provide some reasonable input when I happen to
be in the neighborhood. The customer was completely and utterly
clueless. All she had was a vague desire to "ride a motorcycle." For
who knows what reasons. She was way too short to deal with the F4
seat-height not to mention the "break your wrists" forward leaning
position. Gimmer, you're a way weird example. Nobody I know rides a Duc
like you do and the torture rack model no less. Sure I'm asking too
much of sales droids to actually give a rat's ass or be in any way NOT
an absolute bottom-line, separate them from their cash and to hell with
the consequences, sort of person. In car dealerships it's not very
common to confront a person who doesn't have the first damn clue about
the operation of a vehicle. You find that in bike shops all of the
time. And people walk into dealerships thinking that the sales dude is
a trustworthy, authoritative source on all things 2-wheeled. Hah!!

> in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
> friendly bike on the market.

Like hell! User friendly to you or anybody else who just so happens to
be used to riding a 100HP missile purhaps, and has considerable riding
experience under the belt. Maybe you were weaned on 60HP bikes when you
were five but really Tom, how much have you rubbed shoulders with
people not even taking their first steps in the area of motorized 2
wheeled transport? I do and by the dozens.

I probably wouldn't have gotten a stick up my ass had the guy really
not had anything suitable on the floor. He had more like 5, count 'em 5
beginner bikes. Used bikes are a drag on any dealerhip's floors and he
had a prime opportunity to sell one and wasn't even close to giving
them mention, let alone emphasis when even a blind, deaf, mute would
have known that the CBR was the worst possible solution available. I
could have really gotten in his craw by mentioning how rediculous his
pricing was and that sales from private parties and other resources
would yield better results. But I didn't because even I know that would
be leaping across the line of good manners.

As it is, the lady came away vastly better informed both on bikes and
training and can then help focus her future searches. And she just
might buy her GS or EX from them. The salesman had plenty of cred left,
I just "helped" him focus on what he should have been doing from the
get-go.

I am sympathetic to the Libertarian bent of "to hell with people, let
them make their own choices and reap the consequences and not allow
gov't to intrude on personal decisions..." Unfortunately the world
doesn't turn like that. The MC community is composed entirely too much
with fools and vagabonds of various stripes. "Responsible behavior" on
a motorcycle is about as accurate as "military intelligence." Whether
or not we like it, legistation and other action is contantly trying to
'fix' the perceived problem. If by intervening (and really, I wasn't
obnoxious about it) I can spare one more life, keep one more headline
from appearing, and give a person the opportunity to learn and ENJOY
the experience then IMO that was a good day's work.

We need more evangelists and fewer, rabid zealots screaming about
'rights.' It may not grab headlines like Jesse Jackson, but the 1:1
interaction and ground-swell is what lasts and returns greater
long-term dividends.

If anyone wants to dispute this further, let's do it off-line.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 15:43:19 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:42:37 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill
To: <George.Cole@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   <pawilson@XXXXXX>

Doubt it.  Check out the date.  4/1/02  :-)

Scooter (I ain't no fool...usually ;-) )

In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002  1:41:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX> writes:

> Is this for real? And does the Motorcycle safety foundation endorse this?
>
> George Cole
>
>
> >>> "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX> 04/01/02 01:22PM >>>
> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 15:45:05 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 15:44:36 EST
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE: Boxer Bill
To: <markkitchell@XXXXXX>, <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Aren't they.  I came prepared for the worst today at work.  So far...nothing.

Scooter (AFDA - April Fool's Day Aware)

In a message dated Mon, 1 Apr 2002  1:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> writes:

> you guys are gulible!
>
>
> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > The MSF is advocating for this kind of
> > legislation???  What a bunch of crap.  Just what we
> > need ... more f---ing safety-crats.  I think the MSF
> > does a great thing teaching people how to ride
> > motorcycles.  But they ought to keep their noses out
> > of legislation.
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: Jon Strang jmstrang@XXXXXX
> > Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:24:23 -0500
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: RE: Boxer Bill
> >
> >
> > She forgot to include the "Salespersons responsible
> > for the safety of
> > customers" portion
> >
> > --jon
> > 4/1/02....
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX]
> > > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 1:23 PM
> > > To: dc-cycles list
> > > Subject: Boxer Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
> > >
> > > Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled
> > today.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 15:51:42 2002
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:51:55 -0500


In England, i believe they need to attach L *learner* plates on the back and
wear bright orange vests when they are starting out. This is a good idea.

Doesnt this sort of thing make insurance rates go up for the rest of us? Why
is it that its much more expensive to insure a 20 year old male rider, than
a 40 year old female rider? Could it be because most of the accidents are
caused or involve 20 year old riders?

It certainly is HIS life on the line. But dont forget, that there are many
more people on road than just one guy riding recklessly. His inexperience on
the bike could cause someone else to crash, is this possible?


Personaly i started riding on bigger bikes, and i never had any problems. Go
figure.

Ricardo


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:07:54 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:07:48 -0500
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc:
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen


In England, i believe they need to attach L *learner* plates on the
back and wear bright orange vests when they are starting out. This is
a good idea.

  <DJY>  I have a relative that did surveillance for the FBI (not a
special agent, so no, I can't get you off of any federal raps), they
now instruct at Quantico.  At any rate, part of their duty was to
tail Soviet diplomats, whose plates all began with "FC", allegedly
for 'f%%king communist'.  Now, they live in DC, with license plates
on their car with letters "BG" on them - which I liken to 'Bad Guy'
;-)

Dave




--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:11:48 2002
From: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
To: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:12:05 -0500



I dont see that his comments are out of line. I see this post as a education
of a woman who wants to get into motorcycles. Im sure she is a bright woman,
capable of making up her own mind. Now she has more of a selection to make
an intelligent decision. Most salesmen tell you anything in order to sell
you a bike. If they see a 18 year old guy coming in to buy a Hayabusa as a
1st bike, they tell him what he WANTS to hear. Same thing with this woman.
You can bet a fellow motorcyclist has more useful information than that
blood suckin vampire(and i mean that in a good way) :)

Hey, do they still have any triumph tigers for sale in Clinton Cycles?

There should be lisences for every size of bike. 50cc, 250, 500, 600, 1000,
1200+. Gradually getting all the licenses to get to the heavy bikes.

Ricardo




two problems here:

1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
took food out of his kids' mouths.

2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
valid, blanket statements about machines...

in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
friendly bike on the market.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:25:09 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 16:23:11 -0500 (EST)
From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill


	Damn, you had me worried for a while then I remembered
it was St. Hugh's day. Everyone is encouraged to have some single
malt or beverage of choice in honor of my patron saint.

Hugh

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002, Paul Wilson wrote:

> http://www.motorcyclesafely.com/html/press_0.html
>
> Here's a new legislative initiative unveiled today.
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:41:43 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:50:01 -0500

Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer heat compramise?

not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor type of deal much

like a ball cap.  Sun in my eyes really sucks.

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:44:28 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:52:47 -0500

Keep in contact with him.  I'll buy it from him and the insurance
comapny after he wrecks it.

Danny

|>got a bike!  Cool, sez me, what kind?  A Habasuyu!  *EEK*   But I've ridden
|>before, he sez - yeah, more'n a dacade before and his previous big bore was
|>400.  And the salemen did try to talk him down in size, but given the
|>choice of selling the bike or seeing the money walk, the bike got sold.
|>
|>Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:44:41 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 13:44:40 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

A dirt bike helmet is designed for multiple tumbles
also, so the shells are usually plastic and the
cushioning is more cushioney but less hard-impact
resistant.  I have taken some hard hits to the head in
street bike helmets (which would explain some things),
I am very glad I wasn't wearing my dirt bike helmet at
the time.

I would stick with a street bike helmet for the
street.

--- daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer
> heat compramise?
>
> not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor
> type of deal much
>
> like a ball cap.  Sun in my eyes really sucks.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:46:56 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 16:55:15 -0500

Sounds like the time my friend told me about his lunch time
experience.  He goes to a bike shop, i think cycles usa?  and
some kid is getting an R1. I think even  his mother is helping him buy
it or  something, she's there.

He conveys to my freind it's his first sportbike or something. My
friend warns him to take it easy and that's a serios bike.  The kid
goes out on to the highway, pulls a stand up wheelie and of course
loses it faling off the back.

he was okay minus some non lethal hide skinning.. but.. there you have
it, another example of big head soft ass.


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 16:59:34 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Cc: "pattonme@XXXXXX" <pattonme@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:07:53 -0500

On  the other hand, there are a number of people who do buy the cbr as
their first bike and have the same type of boo-boo's that they would
have on an ex500.

There are some people who aren't calculated enough to concieve they
have slight accidents on their pretty new expensive bikes, and even
when you tell them, they dont' care.

So hey if they want the cbr 600... it's not exactly a death trap.. a
lot of people learn to ride on them especially women. Of course
everyone has their booboo's wether it be me on my first bike ex250
or them on their cbr 600's.  the difference is the paid about 10 times
more than I did to send a motorcycle down on the pavement.  but hey
that's their perrogative if they can afford it.

and further up the arm on the othe hand, my 2nd and 3rd bikes still
manage to see the pavement, so maybe they are just skipping step one.
still their perrogative.

does a ex500 provide more margin for error? yes.

Is it a better (cheaper) learning bike? yes.

can people learn the knowledge portion of riding before they get on a
bike and then ride a cbr 600 carefully?  yes.

A lot of people want their first bike for poser value anyway. They'd
drive the cbr just as slow as the ex500 an make it virtually the same
thing.

Just playing devils advocate I guess.  I always tell people their
first bike and the bike they love  should never be the same thing.
there is no perfect 1st bike that will be a persons one and only bike.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 17:11:08 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: vfr swing arm?
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:19:27 -0500

|>It often seems that NO parts from one year will fit the same model the next

Times have changed.  The suzuki gsxr's share a lot of parts from 96-99
and now 2001 on up.

The honda f2, f3, share a lot of parts, and some minor parts even on
the F4.

The kaw zx6r, zx9r  share some parts as well.

Now i'm wondering if one could put the vfr swing arm on some other
frames :)  it would look very trick..  Given the general ease of swng
arm dismounting and mounting..  if i had the opertunity I might give
it a go... but i won't have the oppertunity.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 17:25:43 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 17:34:02 -0500

|>Correct technique is the key. Wrong technique was your problem.

And the braking thread begins!   I KNOW they don't teach you to cover
the front brake while you're on the throttle in the MSF class. right?

The problem with covering the front brake and being on the gas is just
what happened to me, in an emergency your instinct is to just grab the
front brake, because normally when one grabs the front brake they
are already off the throttle. When you set your hand to grab the front
brake your brain is already thinking it already let go fo the
throttle. In an emergency your brain doesn't take time to do double
checks of what your habbit already is.

That's equivelent to telling new automobile drivers  to cover the
brake with their left foot and use the gas with thier rifght foot.
What you find is 2 things:  1. a new driver doing burn outs running
into objects.
2. people driving with their brake lights on.   Oh  and let's not
forget the "stop or go" mentality and the lack of the "coasting"
factor to maintain distances.

God those accellerate or brake drivers suck.

If you have to question wether you will need to use the front brake,
you should slow down to a speed where you have time to let go
of the accellerator and then use the front brake safely. You don't
want to put yourself into  a possition of possibly using the front
brake and be on the gas at the same out of instinct to slow down
because of a sitation arises.


So all that "you're not doing it right" "cover the front brake and
gas" is just hooey.  Let's take a poll:


Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake
while your'e on the gas?

Who here recommends that you cover the brake only after you are
off the gas?


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:01:00 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:12:13 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread

At 05:34 PM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake
>while your'e on the gas?

I cover my brake when on the gas.  I've also panic stopped in this
situation and *MY INSTINCT* is to close the throttle and apply the brake.

Work on it in a parking lot, you'll get it with some practice (it's almost
as natural as using your rear brake!)  ;-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:07:04 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Cc: <pawilson@XXXXXX>, <stevied65@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: City Riding Strategies
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:15:23 -0500


scooter wrote: -------------------------------
maybe someone will get the point.  As to the people "sharing" your
lane to pass, it's up to you.  Half the time they're too busy yakking
on the phone to even realize you are there.  A good kick to the door
will wake them up.  But, it might also cause them to swerve into your
lane.  I usually lay on the horn, give the universal one fingered
salute and then shake my head at the idiots.
-------------

Now see i would never kick a car from my moving bike. Too much chance
to make me crash on my own and possibly be witnesses..  What I would
do is [CENSORED] and then [CENSORED]!

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:07:39 2002
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 15:07:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeremy Purdy <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Whiskey
To: jmstrang@XXXXXX, GBruhl@XXXXXX, pltrgyst@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


>>Ummm... Bourbon IS Whiskey.

>Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose
>plural I was using; the cointext was scotch tastings.
>Gets confusing when the plurals are the same, doesn't
>it? That's why, when referring to whiskey, most trade
>writers use the plural "whiskeys" to maintain the
>distinction.

Are you seriously trying to say that the two words
mean something different? I suppose that "color" and
"colour" are different too.

According to the folks at Merriam-Webster the two
words mean the same thing.  (Also, according to those
same folks the plural of "whiskey" is "whiskeys" and
the plural of "whisky" is "whiskies").

Please tell me what source defines the difference. Did
I miss that by not taking my local Yuppie
indoctrination or was that in the popular "101 Ways to
PROVE you are Better Than the Jonses"

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star Classic

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:08:04 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:06:09 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
CC: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet



daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer heat compramise?
>
> not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor type of deal much
>
> like a ball cap.  Sun in my eyes really sucks.

Wait until that cute sun visor catchs the breeze while your doing warp 3
and you may learn the true meaning of suckage.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:17:36 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:15:46 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
CC: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread



daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> So all that "you're not doing it right" "cover the front brake and
> gas" is just hooey.  Let's take a poll:
>
> Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake
> while your'e on the gas?

Not me.  Use all four fingers.  I recomend covering the clutch and brakes
(front and rear) when approaching a dicey situation, such as an
intersection.


> Who here recommends that you cover the brake only after you are
> off the gas?

Covering brakes has nothing to do with gason/gasoff.  One covers when a
possible hazardous situation comes into view.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:22:40 2002
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Wayne Edelen" <wayne@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:22:32 -0500

As Wayne says cover, that is, not necessarily *around* the lever, but
certainly *near* it as in on top of it to cut reaction time.  As your
fingers curl around the lever to squeeze, you will automatically roll off
the throttle.  Pridmore (and surely others) teaches this technique to
promote smooth throttle/brake transitions.  You can begin to brake as you
simultaneously roll off the throttle.  What you're doing is simultaneously
braking with the engine and the front brake (and rear too if you like, but
let's leave that alone for now!)  Actually, that's another case for going
easy on the rear brake.  Your engine is already applying braking force and,
therefore, making substantial withdrawals from your rear tire's account at
the Bank of Traction.  You don't need to wait until the throttle snaps shut
before you apply the brake.  You're wasting valuable time and lengthening
your stopping distance if you do that in a maximum braking situation.

When I say cover it, I certainly don't mean all the time, just in heavy
traffic or in other potentially hairy situations.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Edelen" <wayne@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies - braking thread


> At 05:34 PM 4/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the front brake
> >while your'e on the gas?
>
> I cover my brake when on the gas.  I've also panic stopped in this
> situation and *MY INSTINCT* is to close the throttle and apply the brake.
>
> Work on it in a parking lot, you'll get it with some practice (it's almost
> as natural as using your rear brake!)  ;-)
>
> -- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:37:24 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:40:52 -0500
From: Larry Meyer <lmeyer@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Boxer Bill

You mean you wouldn't believe that of Barbara Boxer???  Kudos to the
perpetrators for picking the right legislator.

Mark Kitchell wrote:

>you guys are gulible!
>
>
>--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
>wrote:
>
>>The MSF is advocating for this kind of
>>legislation???  What a bunch of crap.  Just what we
>>need ... more f---ing safety-crats.  I think the MSF
>>does a great thing teaching people how to ride
>>motorcycles.  But they ought to keep their noses out
>>of legislation.
>>



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:38:58 2002
From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles list'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 18:11:33 -0500

Paul Posted

As Wayne says cover, that is, not necessarily *around* the lever, but
certainly *near* it as in on top of it to cut reaction time.  As your
fingers curl around the lever to squeeze, you will automatically roll
off
the throttle.


	<DJY>  Think of this as the opposite of a drag race.  Whereas a drag
race is often won/lost in the 60', likewise panic braking moves are
often won or lost in the 1st few tenths of a second...  If you've got a
fist full of throttle, even if you're going slowly, you're losing
precious fractions of a second transitioning from the grip to the lever.
Lockups tend to occur under stress because the initial 'bite' on the
lever overcomes available traction.  A smooth, steady, quick & firm pull
on the (brake) lever, applying gradually more pressure up to the
threshold of traction is the key here, and as the object ahead looms
larger & LARGER, your brain is saying "MUST S T O P  N O O O O O W W W W
W ! ! ! ! !"

...
Pridmore (and surely others) teaches this technique to
promote smooth throttle/brake transitions.  You can begin to brake as
you
simultaneously roll off the throttle.  What you're doing is
simultaneously
braking with the engine and the front brake (and rear too if you like,
but
let's leave that alone for now!)  Actually, that's another case for
going
easy on the rear brake.  Your engine is already applying braking force
and,
therefore, making substantial withdrawals from your rear tire's account
at
the Bank of Traction.  You don't need to wait until the throttle snaps
shut
before you apply the brake.  You're wasting valuable time and
lengthening
your stopping distance if you do that in a maximum braking situation.


	<DJY>  Good analogy.


When I say cover it, I certainly don't mean all the time, just in heavy
traffic or in other potentially hairy situations.


	<DJY>  Just remember this - when that strato-lounger comes bouncing off
the pickup in front of you on the beltway, Just how prepared do you want
to be - Posing with one hand on the clip ons, looking cool to all those
you pass, or both hands on the clip ons, while covering the front brake
????  The need for covering the brake(s) is somewhere between all the
time & when it's needed...



Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 18:43:45 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 18:44:42 -0500
To: Jeremy Purdy <purdyjeremy@XXXXXX>, jmstrang@XXXXXX,
   GBruhl@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Whiskey
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

At 06:07 PM 4/1/2002, Jeremy Purdy wrote:

> >Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose
> >plural I was using; ....
>
>Are you seriously trying to say that the two words
>mean something different?

Yes, they are. "Whisky" is generally used in the trade
and in publications to refer only to Scotch whisky, and
some Canadian whisky. All others are referred to as
"whiskey".


-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 19:42:43 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 19:45:02 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Bruce Brownlee <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>
Subject: Dichotomy

bruce, casting out a line opines:

am i the only one that is having trouble figuring out the opposing
arguements between:

lane filtering:  f**k'em, they'll figure it out.  i'm not hurting them any.
they ought to by a bike (leave ME alone)

and

salesmen need big brother:  people should not be allowed buy a bike
they arent qualified for... (keep an eye on THEM)

i think we have invented a 'big brother who is libertarian'.....  but as
usual, the riders are right, its everyone ELSE thats fubar....


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 20:59:55 2002
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:58:43 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Rob Winters <rob@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Whiskey

<http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbourbon.html>

Count on The Straight Dope to get yer whiskies and bourbons straight!
;-)

  /// Rob

P.S. Left over from the Burns Supper: Glenmorangie 10, Glenmorangie Port
Wood 12, MacAllan 12, MacAllan 1983 (mmmm...), Islay Dew, Speyburn 10, Glen
Keith 10, and BlackAdder's Single Campbeltown 1991.

I don't get out much.  8-)

At 06:44 PM 4/1/2002, Larry Larson wrote:
>At 06:07 PM 4/1/2002, Jeremy Purdy wrote:
>
>> >Yes, but it's not whisky, which is the word whose
>> >plural I was using; ....
>>
>>Are you seriously trying to say that the two words
>>mean something different?
>
>Yes, they are. "Whisky" is generally used in the trade
>and in publications to refer only to Scotch whisky, and
>some Canadian whisky. All others are referred to as
>"whiskey".
>
>
>-- Larry


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 23:45:57 2002
From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Quasimoto -- Bugs and hops
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:37:00 -0500

Hmmm.  Taking a chance here, but what promises to be a first-time-DC fun
event is on tap the next few days.  Having been incurably bitten by a
jitterbug at an immature age I find myself lindy-hopping at local venues
where a few bikes pop up now and then.

So, for any interested in East Coast Swing Dancing (big band '40s-'50s
style) the schedule is at http://www.dclindyexchange.org/ .  There are
couple of daytime outdoor flings:  Events are generally sans alcohol (but
thirsts come on fast).  Dress is slacks through zoots/suspenders.  Because
substantial out-of-town groups are expected early arrivals may benefit.
Questions addressed offlist.

Congratulations Terps!

Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 -->  Need different tires for Lindyhop
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  1 23:52:23 2002
From: "Rob Curtis" <rm.curtis@XXXXXX>
To: "'Bruce Brownlee'" <brownlee_b@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Dichotomy
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 23:52:22 -0500

That is far too perverse an insight for me this late at night. But, I
will add that if our Big Brother rides, would he be wearing a helmet?
Robby C.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Brownlee [mailto:brownlee_b@XXXXXX]
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 19:45
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Dichotomy

bruce, casting out a line opines:

am i the only one that is having trouble figuring out the opposing
arguements between:

lane filtering:  f**k'em, they'll figure it out.  i'm not hurting them
any.
they ought to by a bike (leave ME alone)

and

salesmen need big brother:  people should not be allowed buy a bike
they arent qualified for... (keep an eye on THEM)

i think we have invented a 'big brother who is libertarian'.....  but as
usual, the riders are right, its everyone ELSE thats fubar....



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 00:04:09 2002
From: "Anita L." <alauro@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ride This Weekend?
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 00:15:06 -0500

Hmm.. am I allowed to post about riding on this list? :-)

Anyhow, the weather hasn't been cooperating lately.. and I'm really itching
to get out and ride. Any events going on this weekend? Or anyone interested
in a very leisurely paced ride (still getting used to the new bike) around
VA on either Saturday or Sunday?  Drop me a line if you're interested and
maybe we can put something together.

Now back to your regular scheduled flame-fest... :-)

Anita
'02 BMW R1150R
'96 GPZ1100 (for sale)
'00 Blaster (for sale)


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 01:55:44 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Ricardo Pontes" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Dccycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:04:07 -0500

|>There should be lisences for every size of bike. 50cc, 250, 500, 600, 1000,
|>1200+. Gradually getting all the licenses to get to the heavy bikes.

every size? 50, 70,  80, 125, 250, 350, 450, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750,
800, 850? 900, 929, 950, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300. whever else i left
out.

How do you qualify the difference?  (that someone is able to ride a
750 but not 900 for instance).  A 600 CC rider can often enough out
run a 1300 bike, if the rider has the skills. a 600's top speed is
about 150 mph and a 1300 is about 190 mph.  Regulating bikes for that
difference of 40 mph top end is ridiculous. If you're capable of
riding a bike that can go 150 mph, you might as well be considered
capable of going just as fast on a bike twice the engine size.

  I've ridden a 600 mostly,  a 750 a number of times, a 900 a few
times and a 1300 once. It seems pretty much apparent to me that once
you know how to ride a 600 in an intelligent manner, you can ride just
about anything in an intelligent manner. I often see friends switching
bikes, R6's to busa's, katana to R1, so their buddy's can get a feel
for how the bike rides. They all come back safe and sound.

  I also know of an instance where a person was a custom bike mechanic
and regularly raced hiyabusas,  kill himself on an 80 cc dirtbike. (he
had a heart attack while riding, loss control and hit a brick wall,
without wearing proper safety gear)  So even the smallest bike can
kill people who are qualified to ride some of the fastest.

Basicly, if you can safely operate a bike, you can safely operate a
bike.  If you unsafely operate a bike, you can kill yourself and harm
others on any size bike.

 CC class liscensing would be just beauracracy.

The good thing about motorcycles is that the riders that do stupid
things are the ones who are subject to  the consequences. No law
needed, darwins law is in effect and can't be rescinded.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 02:32:08 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:40:31 -0500

On Mon, 1 Apr 2002 12:31:45 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

|>Tom Gimer opined:
|>> 1.  your mouth.  if i was that salesman, i would have had
|>> no qualms telling you to shut your trap.  you probably just
|>> took food out of his kids' mouths.
|>
|>He wasn't married. Or at least wasn't wearing a ring to indicate such.

Unfortunately marriage and parenthood are completely independant of
each other.  The statement was about food out of kids mouths, not a
wifes. I wonder what perecent of parents are married.  Unfortunately
marriage is not a neccessity to bear children.

I happen to think both sides are an exageration. The rider probably
woudln't kill herself, and no kid would starve, if either of you were
right. FWIW I agree with Tom in a less abrassive manner though heh
heh.

|>> 2.  your theory.  any motorcycle in the hands of an idiot
|>> can easily kill him/her.  the relevant factor here is the
|>> respect given the machine by its owner.  you cannot make
|>> valid, blanket statements about machines...
|>
|>No, but I damn well can provide some reasonable input when I happen to
|>be in the neighborhood. The customer was completely and utterly
|>clueless. All she had was a vague desire to "ride a motorcycle." For
|>who knows what reasons. She was way too short to deal with the F4
|>seat-height not to mention the "break your wrists" forward leaning

So they don't make dogbones for F4's ? Short people don't ride F4's ?
I know this young lady who is on a 929 or 954 honda. You better save
her quick!

Hey if that's the bike (cbr600) she wanted for slow riding poser
value, that's her right. She could just as easily harm herself on the
ex500.

|>like you do and the torture rack model no less. Sure I'm asking too
|>much of sales droids to actually give a rat's ass or be in any way NOT
|>an absolute bottom-line, separate them from their cash and to hell with
|>the consequences, sort of person. In car dealerships it's not very

Well it seems like you didn't give the salesman too much of an
oppertunity to get all his views out either.  From yoru story it seems
like you immediately cut in and took over. The salesman may happen to
believe like a lot of people believe (and others demonstrate) that a
new female rider can handle a cbr 600.

 I'm thinking if she's mid 30's she's probably mature enough not to go
trying to wheelie on her first ride, and the cbr woudl be ok for her.

|>common to confront a person who doesn't have the first damn clue about
|>the operation of a vehicle. You find that in bike shops all of the
|>time. And people walk into dealerships thinking that the sales dude is
|>a trustworthy, authoritative source on all things 2-wheeled. Hah!!

Some do, some don't. I know a new rider who works at freestate in
parts, and I know a bike sales guy who races and does awsome stunts on
his zx12.

|>> in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
|>> friendly bike on the market.
|>
|>Like hell! User friendly to you or anybody else who just so happens to
|>be used to riding a 100HP missile purhaps, and has considerable riding
|>experience under the belt. Maybe you were weaned on 60HP bikes when you
|>were five but really Tom, how much have you rubbed shoulders with
|>people not even taking their first steps in the area of motorized 2
|>wheeled transport? I do and by the dozens.

I don't rub their sholders, I rub their backs as I often get hugs from
them.  I think most female riders inside DC and pg county start off in
the 600 category, and in fact, the cbr 600.  the one or two females
that did get ex500's  got 600's pretty soon.  They make a good case
for not needing the 500 and the "you'll want somethign more" theory.

personally, my reasons for recommending a used bike for a new rider
isnt' safety, it's for learning to care for your bike and making
boo-boos.

|>I probably wouldn't have gotten a stick up my ass had the guy really
|>not had anything suitable on the floor. He had more like 5, count 'em 5

So the sales guy did deal with you! <g>

|>beginner bikes. Used bikes are a drag on any dealerhip's floors and he
|>had a prime opportunity to sell one and wasn't even close to giving
|>them mention, let alone emphasis when even a blind, deaf, mute would
|>have known that the CBR was the worst possible solution available.

On the other hand you have to consider.. some people want NEW bikes,
they feel they can trust the reliability.  And on top of that, new
bikes are designed better,  ride smoother, have better brakes, and
lighter weights.  it's not exactly evil to own a new bike as your
first bike. If a person has the dough, hey go for it.   Me personally,
I refuse to take the financial hits. I'll wait till someone wrecks
one, and rebuild it for at most half the cost.

|>I could have really gotten in his craw by mentioning how rediculous his

you're scaring me with these refences! <g>

|>pricing was and that sales from private parties and other resources
|>would yield better results. But I didn't because even I know that would
|>be leaping across the line of good manners.

might as well leap across it, you're the one who drew the line.  Of
course some times it's a hasle to go used bike shopping. Especially if
you know nothing about isnpecting bikes. Buying a new bike you're
fairly certain everything is in new condition.

|>As it is, the lady came away vastly better informed both on bikes and
|>training and can then help focus her future searches. And she just

really?  Are you going ot help her shop for used bikes?

|>might buy her GS or EX from them. The salesman had plenty of cred left,
|>I just "helped" him focus on what he should have been doing from the
|>get-go.

Man what are we going to do with these guys who don't know what they
should be doing and need to learn it from you.  Maybe you should start
a religion for bike dealership employees. preach them YOUR gospel.

|>I am sympathetic to the Libertarian bent of "to hell with people, let
|>them make their own choices and reap the consequences and not allow
|>gov't to intrude on personal decisions..." Unfortunately the world
|>doesn't turn like that. The MC community is composed entirely too much
|>with fools and vagabonds of various stripes. "Responsible behavior" on
|>a motorcycle is about as accurate as "military intelligence." Whether
|>or not we like it, legistation and other action is contantly trying to
|>'fix' the perceived problem. If by intervening (and really, I wasn't
|>obnoxious about it) I can spare one more life, keep one more headline
|>from appearing, and give a person the opportunity to learn and ENJOY
|>the experience then IMO that was a good day's work.

yea you saved another  mid 30's female from making the paper.  Such an
epidemic now! how many mid 30's female cbr riders have killed
themselves that you know of?  I know a lot of females who started off
with that bike, and dammit none of them died. Well chit there goes
that statistic.

But yea, pat yourself on the back.. I'm sure that mid 35 year old
woman was just another throttle crazed lunatic about to happen had she
gotten that CBR.  Did she strike you more as a fool or vagabond? Thank
goodness you saved her!   Those mid 30 female sportbike riders are
giving us male riders bad names!

|>
|>We need more evangelists and fewer, rabid zealots screaming about
|>'rights.' It may not grab headlines like Jesse Jackson, but the 1:1
|>interaction and ground-swell is what lasts and returns greater
|>long-term dividends.

You like evangalists?  ah well it doesn't surprise me. Frankly I find
it too time consuming to distinguish the money grubbers, pedophiles,
and those who truly believe and preach. I'll skip the middle man and
enjoy my own personal relationship with God.

And yea, we don't need any people to be zealous about rights.  We
woudlnt' be in this whole "freedom" problem if those zealots
washington, jefferson, adams, franklin, hancock and their ilk had just
kept thier traps shut!   Damn them! All this freedom, what are we
gonna do!

|>If anyone wants to dispute this further, let's do it off-line.

OOPS! you put this at the end! Ack!    I'd rather not dispute it off
line.  That's pointless. No ones mind will change, however in a public
forum we can present ideas that others can consider, learn from, and
decide for themselves.  Arguing is pointless without an audience.


Danny


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 02:35:42 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Peter Hartzler <pete@XXXXXX>
Cc: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   "michael.brocchi@XXXXXX" <michael.brocchi@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:44:02 -0500

I hate that when you set the chain right, and tighten the axle and
lose slack.

Anyway his bike is a 00 model.  I have a 00 model.  Mine has 2100
miles on it and I just changed my chain.  (wish someone woudla told me
they can be expected to last till 30k, oh well atleast i got
confidence in my new chain).

So anyway, maybe his chain is stretched.   How many miles do you have
on it?

What's probably most likely is that, and apparent, is that he's not
using the proper tightening technique.  I'd go into detail but it's
already covered I see.


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 02:39:48 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 02:48:12 -0500

|>Wait until that cute sun visor catchs the breeze while your doing warp 3
|>and you may learn the true meaning of suckage.

Or I could tuck below my screen, but i digress and think you're right.

What i was thinking about was, though, those doubly hot days when I
might also wear a mesh jacket.  Probalby only ride in the city, and
probably not exceded 30 mph.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 02:53:45 2002
From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles list'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 03:02:09 -0500

|>	<DJY>  Just remember this - when that strato-lounger comes bouncing off
|>the pickup in front of you on the beltway, Just how prepared do you want
|>to be - Posing with one hand on the clip ons, looking cool to all those
|>you pass, or both hands on the clip ons, while covering the front brake
|>????  The need for covering the brake(s) is somewhere between all the
|>time & when it's needed...

personally I prefer to dodge than brake, and also tend to use one hand
when going through curves, because it helps me not put weight on the
handlebars.  One handed braking isn't exactly a scary thought to me
either.  Of course i'm also always attentive to the possiblity  of any
type of cargo vehicle losing it's cargo, or multi axle vehicles losing
their tire tread.  Fortunately God has blessed me with a paranoid,
calculating, and thorough mind.

I find good  perception of possible obstacles is  much better in
giving me ample reaction time,  enoug so that I don't need to squeeze
out a fraction of a second at the risk of accellerating out the front
brakes available traction.

If i see something i slow down by rolling off the throttle. IF I need
to brake, then I brake. If it's all clear, then all i need is throttle
and no need to cover the brake.

I do try to cover the clutch though.  Paranoia about mechanical
failure, and also ease in removing rear wheel skid from engine braking
while emergency front brake stopping.


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 07:06:32 2002
From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: t_gimer@XXXXXX, sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: re: Ducati 996
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:05:26 -0500

Hi Tom,


>
>actually, as bad as my experience was, i'd still buy
>another.  very wierd what these beautiful machines do to
>one's thought processes....
>
>just thought of something: are the rocker arms a problem on
>the '01 model?  if so, he should be very careful to stay on
>top of that issue....
>

What sort of bad experience did you have? Where they also expensive
experiences? I am well aware that Ducatis are not the easiest bikes to live
with, so I am prepared for some pain. Please tell me more about the rocker
arms. Is there something in particular I should look for?

I am going over to the dealer in about 8 hours, cant wait :-)

Sanath

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 07:23:18 2002
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 07:20:58 -0500
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: alauro@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Ride This Weekend?

Would love too however, if all goes well today, I will be dropping my bike off to get its annual service & inspection done and throw on a new set of tires.  Probably won't be back by the weekend as I usually tell them to take their time and do it right.  Also have two sisters requesting my presence this weekend.  :-)  Have fun though.

Scooter

In a message dated Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:04:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, alauro@XXXXXX writes:

>
>
> Hmm.. am I allowed to post about riding on this list? :-)
>
> Anyhow, the weather hasn't been cooperating lately.. and I'm really itching
> to get out and ride. Any events going on this weekend? Or anyone interested
> in a very leisurely paced ride (still getting used to the new bike) around
> VA on either Saturday or Sunday?  Drop me a line if you're
> interested and
> maybe we can put something together.
>
> Now back to your regular scheduled flame-fest... :-)
>
> Anita
> '02 BMW R1150R
> '96 GPZ1100 (for sale)
> '00 Blaster (for sale)



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 07:32:24 2002
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 04:32:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Mason Dixon 20-20 deadline coming up...
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Folks, since there was some discussion about the rally before, I wanted to
remind you all that the deadline for signing up for the 2002 Mason Dixon 20-20
Rally is April 15th, 2002.

There was a little bit of chest thumping before, the direct quote is "any time
poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged bike, but at least i
RAN the MD2020!"  (DC-Cycles, 13 Mar 02)  Yet I don't see the challenger's name
in the list of registered riders; the challenged one has been registered for a
while.

To answer some private questions that were sent to me (in case others may be
interested):  You can use the MD2020 to get the basic Saddle Sore 1000 (1000
miles in 24 hrs), or the BunBurner (1500 miles in 36 hrs).  We have preset
routes that I've heard were supposed to be nice.

For those competing in the main rally itself, while I can't give away the DOA
theme for this year, I can tell you that it will be a LOT of fun.  This year
we've had many volunteers scouting out bonuses all across the eastern United
States, and even into Canada.  Dale Horstman kept volunteering to find a few
high value bonuses for us, but we thought he might just be trying to get a head
start on the competition.  (nice try Dale)

Also, there will be no checkpoints this year.

We also got our new "Wish List" from the Johns Hopkins Children's Center.  This
is where all of the toys and other trinkets that are used for some of the bonus
points are sent to.

We also have some nice prizes lined up for the winners this year.  And even if
you don't win, there are still plenty of nice things that are being planned for
all of the riders.

The Mason Dixon 20-20 will be based in York, PA on Memorial Day weekend.  For
more information, including how to register, go to:
http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

If you have any additional questions, feel free to e-mail me, on or off list.

Louis Caplan


=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 08:12:53 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:12:33 EST
Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 4:41:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

> Hmm.. so a dirt bike helmet might be a nice summer heat compromise?

Maybe but... see below.

>  not to mention the dirtbike helmet has a sun visor type of deal much
>  like a ball cap.

Problem is that visor tends to lift at highway speeds, I would try to find
one and take a test ride before purchasing one. How much it lifts will depend
on your bike (windshield height etc.) and speed. The chin bar is usually not
as strong as the bar on a street lid due to its being full of holes. Also the
bar being further out would have more leverage against the neck in a face
plant crash, a potential problem.

Worth a try though, and since I have one (DOT? I will have to check) I may
try myself.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 08:19:31 2002
From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Timeline
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:18:39 -0500

peeeshaa!   Back in 64' we had banana seats and ape hangers on our
bicycles... If your pedal rubber wore out you replaced it with rubber hose
or fuel line... plus we used to take steel roller skates (they came apart
for a front and rear section) nailed the half's to a 2x4 and you had a
skateboard.  Dern...  I remember watching Flipper (in COLOR) on the
neighbors television...  why?  They had the only color T.V. on the street!

All of this pre-dates the Brady Bunch by a solid 8 years.


>plus the bannana seat on the vfr is ugly to anyone who didn't grow up
>watching the brady bunch!  <G>




From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 08:21:11 2002
From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 08:21:01 EST
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

In a message dated 4/1/2002 6:41:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, sdave@XXXXXX
writes:

> <DJY>  Just remember this - when that strato-lounger comes bouncing off
>  the pickup in front of you on the beltway,

You only think you are kidding, I have come up on one in the middle of a
freeway. In this case I swerved, which should NEVER be combined with braking.
Hee Hee.

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 09:10:36 2002
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:08:48 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
To: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
CC: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Timeline

`64?  You're a young `un!  Back in my day 3-speed English bikes were the
razz.  My thang was boats. They were made of wood, fiberglass was too new and
the integrity suspect.  I was 11 when I made my first solo voyage.  In modern
times my parents would been arrested for child endangerment!   By the time I
was 14 I was on my second boat and fourth outboard, a modified Mercury that
enabled me to gleefully outrun the water police.

My folks didn't own a TV until I was a senior in high school.  Every Wednesday
night I hiked through the swampy woods to watch Disney with at a nieghbor
girl's house.  I learned to hate commercials `cause she wanted to wrestle and
practice ... um, kissing.  Hey, I was like12, girls were still kinda icky.
Thank goodness I grew out of that :-)

Bill
older than dirt

Bruhl, George LT wrote:

> peeeshaa!   Back in 64' we had banana seats and ape hangers on our
> bicycles... If your pedal rubber wore out you replaced it with rubber hose
> or fuel line... plus we used to take steel roller skates (they came apart
> for a front and rear section) nailed the half's to a 2x4 and you had a
> skateboard.  Dern...  I remember watching Flipper (in COLOR) on the
> neighbors television...  why?  They had the only color T.V. on the street!
>
> All of this pre-dates the Brady Bunch by a solid 8 years.
>
> >plus the bannana seat on the vfr is ugly to anyone who didn't grow up
> >watching the brady bunch!  <G>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 09:31:56 2002
From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: George.Cole@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Criswell Opinions...?
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:31:47 -0500

Thanks, George, for the Only response.  I guess people were turned off by
the last subject heading, so I changed it this time.

Yes, I'm looking at sales for now, but eventually would like to get into all
aspects of the business.

A new location, and picking up Honda are in the works, but won't be until a
little later in the season, from what they've told me so far.  I'll go into
more later if I take the position and learn anything new.

So, for the rest of the list....any opinions on Criswell Power Sports?
Anything, anyone...

  "Anyone....anyone...Bueller...Bueller???"

Thanks.

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:36 -0600


 >>> "Rob Keiser" wrote SNIP

 >was wondering  what the list impression is of Criswell Power Sports in
Gaithersburg.

I have been up there a few times, I thought they were supposed to move into
a new location and have a multi-vendor dealership. From what I have seen at
their current location, behind all the Criswell car dealerships, there are
never any customers looking at or buying bikes when I have been there and
they have virtually no accessories dept, and all the bikes are packed in a
very small space.

I have heard that Criswell is a good organization, but since it is mainly a
car dealership business I would wonder about the "car business" mentality.

Are you looking for a sales job there? if that's the case and they are
staying in that location I wouldn't do it.

Besides you need to sell Honda's

George







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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 09:34:29 2002
Subject: Bike Night reminder
From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:34:27 -0500
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>

Just a reminder that we're doing an informal, early season Bike Night at Uncle Jed's in Bethesda, MD this Sunday, April 7th, 6pm to whenever.  As with all the other Bike Nights at Uncle Jed's, Lisa Goddard gets all the credit for organizing.  No parking lot and no special reserved m/c parking.  But there should be plenty of on-street parking right out in front of Uncle Jed's.  If not, there are parking lots just a block or two away.  Whatever you do, don't park in any of the parking lots belonging to other businesses/offices -- THEY WILL TOW!

Details and info at http://www.geocities.com/bikenight

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 09:52:06 2002
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Content-return: allowed
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 09:51:42 -0500
Subject: RE: Ride This Weekend?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX

A ride this weekend should be a treat, please let me know if something gets
organized...

As for before then, I'm going to take a lunch time ride today and enjoy what
seems to be the best riding day of the season (so far).  Any suggestions for
good hour to hour and a half rides originating in downtown DC?  Didn't see
anything posted on the DCC site.

Thanks and enjoy the weather,
Mike

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 09:53:06 2002
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 06:46:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: re: Ducati 996
To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX

--- Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
>
> >
> >actually, as bad as my experience was, i'd still buy
> >another.  very wierd what these beautiful machines do to
> >one's thought processes....
> >
> >just thought of something: are the rocker arms a problem
> on
> >the '01 model?  if so, he should be very careful to stay
> on
> >top of that issue....
> >
>
> What sort of bad experience did you have? Where they also
> expensive
> experiences? I am well aware that Ducatis are not the
> easiest bikes to live
> with, so I am prepared for some pain. Please tell me more
> about the rocker
> arms. Is there something in particular I should look for?

i've gone through 3 sets of front rotors, 2 rear brake
pumps (master cyls.), a rear caliper, an ECU, and rocker
arms and cams (see below)....  i thought the rear braking
problem had been fixed with a new caliper, but it's failing
again.  according to the records at battleys, braking
problems on these bikes are relatively rare.  of course i
end up with the bad apple....

you should do a search on the web for "ducati 996" and
"rocker arms".  or pick up the issue of motorcycle consumer
news that discusses the problem.  AHEM!  mr. patton!...
without getting into too much detail (because i'm no
mechanic), the chrome coating of the rocker arms is far too
weak/thin, and in many instances (including mine) it
eventually flakes off one or all of them, destroying the
cams in the process.

ducati had/has been replacing damaged rocker arms with
IDENTICAL parts, meaning the problem hasn't been solved,
but merely postponed.



> I am going over to the dealer in about 8 hours, cant wait
> :-)
>
> Sanath

i'm jealous (my 2000 isn't quite "new" anymore).  tip: i
think you should aim at least $500 below what you think is
a low offer.  the 996 won't move off that floor very
quickly with 998s sitting nearby, so you've got some
leverage....  good luck



--
tg


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:06:34 2002
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:06:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Ride This Weekend?
From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX


On Tuesday, April 2, 2002, at 12:15 , Anita L. wrote:

> Hmm.. am I allowed to post about riding on this list? :-)

What the hell is wrong with you!?!? Nobody on this list rides! Geeze. 
What were you thinking?

:P


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:09:46 2002
Return-Path: <dc-cycles-request>
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:09:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020401203145.91940.qmail@web20104.mail.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

--- matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Tom Gimer opined:
> > in any event, its a cbr600.  there ain't a more user
> > friendly bike on the market.
> 
> Like hell! User friendly to you or anybody else who just
> so happens to
> be used to riding a 100HP missile purhaps, and has
> considerable riding
> experience under the belt. Maybe you were weaned on 60HP
> bikes when you
> were five but really Tom, how much have you rubbed
> shoulders with
> people not even taking their first steps in the area of
> motorized 2
> wheeled transport? I do and by the dozens.

i've helped a number of entry-level riders learn to ride
over the past 15 years.  the latest was an absolute newbie
who purchased a '98 cbr900rr as his FIRST bike in 2000. 
12k miles later, he's still respecting the bike and still
upright because of it.  a 16 year old kid is one thing, a
30+ year old woman is another.  my money is on the older
woman having the maturity to properly learn to ride and
respect the machine.

i just figured out why you felt the need to intervene! 
you're a part-time motorcycle instructor, hangin around the
dealership looking to educate the foolish masses.  can't
believe i forgot at that angle....



--
tg

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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 10:15:11 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mason Dixon 20-20 deadline coming up...
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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"Louis F. Caplan" wrote:

> There was a little bit of chest thumping before, the direct quote is "any time
> poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged bike, but at least i
> RAN the MD2020!"  (DC-Cycles, 13 Mar 02)  Yet I don't see the challenger's name
> in the list of registered riders; the challenged one has been registered for a
> while.

:)  Hmm, maybe we've identified Racer X?  :)

> Dale Horstman kept volunteering to find a few high value bonuses for us, 
> but we thought he might just be trying to get a head start on the competition.  

Who, me?  <blush>

> Also, there will be no checkpoints this year.

Interesting.  That really opens up the routing options.

> The Mason Dixon 20-20 will be based in York, PA on Memorial Day weekend.  For
> more information, including how to register, go to:
> http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

I highly, highly recommend this rally for anyone considering endurance
riding.  It can be as challenging or as simple as you want it to be, and
the RallyBubbas put on a first class event their first time out last year.

I can't wait for the end of May.  This is gonna be fun.

Hork
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:36:20 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:36:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: re City Riding Strategies   - braking thread
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> Who here recommends that you put two fingers over the
> front brake
> while your'e on the gas?
> 
> Who here recommends that you cover the brake only after
> you are
> off the gas?

i'm pretty sure i have 1-2 fingers covering the front brake
at almost all times.  can't think of when i don't....

i involuntarily cover teh clutch about 75 percent of the
time.  still trying to train my brain to get past this....



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:50:12 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:50:11 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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> The good thing about motorcycles is that the riders
> that do stupid
> things are the ones who are subject to  the
> consequences. No law
> needed, darwins law is in effect and can't be
> rescinded.

But the bad thing is that, for every teenager who
totals his R1 on the first day of ownership, my
insurance is affected.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:54:32 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 10:54:03 -0500
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I think the dirt-bike trained are very guilty of this.  You can't ride a
125cc (or even a 250) 2-stroke fast without clutch coverage (and constant
clutch work).

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200

> -----Tom Gimer wrote:
>
> i involuntarily cover teh clutch about 75 percent of the
> time.  still trying to train my brain to get past this....
>
>
>
> --
> tg


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:54:47 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:54:46 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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I sent the guy a private email about why chains
tighten when you tighten the axle nut, but I will tell
the group since it doesn't seem to be common
knowledge.

Manufacturers, particulary Suzuki, tend to make the
swingarms a little wider than necessary so you can
slide the rear wheel in easily.  When you tighten the
axle nut, you bend the swingarm in, which pushed the
axle, tire, and thus chain, farther back.

--- daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> I hate that when you set the chain right, and
> tighten the axle and
> lose slack.
> 
> Anyway his bike is a 00 model.  I have a 00 model. 
> Mine has 2100
> miles on it and I just changed my chain.  (wish
> someone woudla told me
> they can be expected to last till 30k, oh well
> atleast i got
> confidence in my new chain).
> 
> So anyway, maybe his chain is stretched.   How many
> miles do you have
> on it?  
> 
> What's probably most likely is that, and apparent,
> is that he's not
> using the proper tightening technique.  I'd go into
> detail but it's
> already covered I see.
> 
> 
> Danny


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 10:59:25 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 07:59:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
To: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > The good thing about motorcycles is that the riders
> > that do stupid
> > things are the ones who are subject to  the
> > consequences. No law
> > needed, darwins law is in effect and can't be
> > rescinded.
> 
> But the bad thing is that, for every teenager who
> totals his R1 on the first day of ownership, my
> insurance is affected.

i didn't know you were a teenaged r1 owner.....

for every teenager who totals his r1 on the first day of
ownership, i bet my rates decrease (by a negligible amount
the following year).  paging mr. harris....mr. stephen
harris


--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 11:06:01 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Chain tightening
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Ah, yet more proof of the superiority of the single-sided swingarm...

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "stephen cutchins" <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
> 
> Manufacturers, particulary Suzuki, tend to make the
> swingarms a little wider than necessary so you can
> slide the rear wheel in easily.  When you tighten the
> axle nut, you bend the swingarm in, which pushed the
> axle, tire, and thus chain, farther back.



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 11:17:09 2002
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One of my co-workers rode by what looked like the wreck of a big yellow 
sportbike on the 14th Street Bridge this morning. People standing around, 
but no evidence of a rider still there. Lots of little bits of plastic all 
over the place.

Anyone know any more about this?

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 11:35:48 2002
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I missed the beginning of this thread, but I cover the clutch (and brake) ~100% of the time when I am near vertical and/or cruising around in traffic.  The only time that I knowlingly don't have either or both covered is when I'm leaned hard over in a turn.

Are Gimer and I actually agreeing on something???  The end of the world is near!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 11:47:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 11:46:29 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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 <029201c1da60$7054b640$bb82fea9@palladio1>

Paul Wilson wrote:
> 
> Ah, yet more proof of the superiority of the single-sided swingarm...

Yep, I have to admit that the single sided swingarm
the Beemers use is pretty cool.  NASCAR-style rear
tire changes, baby!  And no chains or sprockets to
fart around with.  :)

Hork

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:09:38 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:09:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> I missed the beginning of this thread, but I cover the
> clutch (and brake) ~100% of the time when I am near
> vertical and/or cruising around in traffic.  The only
> time that I knowlingly don't have either or both covered
> is when I'm leaned hard over in a turn.
> 
> Are Gimer and I actually agreeing on something???  The
> end of the world is near!!!

no.  my answer is the same whether i'm leaned over or not.


--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:12:54 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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References: <20020402155446.71097.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com><029201c1da60$7054b640$bb82fea9@palladio1> <3CA9E065.EBF3606E@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:13:52 -0500
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Rear tire changes are so easy on the VFR, un-do five bolts (OK, you do have
to take off the exhaust can if it's a low mount) and the tire is free.  No
axle bolt, spacers and other nonsense to fool with, and no alignment issues.
Tire and wheel balancing is a bit harder, unless you have the correct
adaptor.


Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <horkster@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: Chain tightening


> Paul Wilson wrote:
> >
> > Ah, yet more proof of the superiority of the single-sided swingarm...
>
> Yep, I have to admit that the single sided swingarm
> the Beemers use is pretty cool.  NASCAR-style rear
> tire changes, baby!  And no chains or sprockets to
> fart around with.  :)
>
> Hork
>
> --
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
>
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth
>
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:21:14 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Cc: 
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread  

Chuck dared to speak the words of HERESY - 
 
> Are Gimer and I actually agreeing on something???  The
> end of the world is near!!!


   <DJY>  A sure sign of the Apocolypse  ...  ;-)   

Fortunately, Gimer corrected -

no.  my answer is the same whether i'm leaned over or not.

  <DJY>  that was close... ;-)


Dave 





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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:27:30 2002
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For the record, I probably (unconsciously) cover the clutch/brake when I'm leaned over moderately.  Certainly when I'm "street riding."  And even when I'm out in "real world" twisties.  But if I'm hanging off and trying to lay down a sparkie trail, I'm guessing I've got all four fingers wrapped around the grips (but can't confirm since I've never bothered to look!)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Tom Gimer t_gimer@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:09:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread


--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> I missed the beginning of this thread, but I cover the
> clutch (and brake) ~100% of the time when I am near
> vertical and/or cruising around in traffic.  The only
> time that I knowlingly don't have either or both covered
> is when I'm leaned hard over in a turn.
> 
> Are Gimer and I actually agreeing on something???  The
> end of the world is near!!!

no.  my answer is the same whether i'm leaned over or not.


--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:30:03 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 12:27:16 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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 <037201c1da69$c5647180$bb82fea9@palladio1>

Paul Wilson wrote:
> 
> Rear tire changes are so easy on the VFR, un-do five bolts (OK, you do have
> to take off the exhaust can if it's a low mount) and the tire is free.  

I'd love to see a similar set-up on the front, as well.  Hasn't
someone come up with a work-able single-sided front control arm
yet?  It's about time someone did.  10 bolts, 2 wheels free, no
brake disks getting in the way, oh baby.

> Tire and wheel balancing is a bit harder, unless you have the correct
> adaptor.

What is this "balancing" of which you speak?  Line up the dot on
the tire with the valve stem, and it's close enough for everyone
this side of club racing.  :)

Horkster

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:48:21 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:48:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)
To: dccycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Yeah, I think the GTS1000 had that, didn't it? I would
think the only logistical problem is if you want
better braking, you have difficulty mounting a second
brake disk. I suspect that's why the Honda concept
bike "NAS" aka "Xaxis" has a rim-mounted brake disk.

Chris Weaver


--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I'd love to see a similar set-up on the front, as
> well.  Hasn't
> someone come up with a work-able single-sided front
> control arm
> yet?  It's about time someone did.  10 bolts, 2
> wheels free, no
> brake disks getting in the way, oh baby.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:55:53 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Chain tightening
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 12:44:58 -0500
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SS Front Fork:  Was it not tried by Yamaha and rejected by the "motorcycling
public," whoever those people are.  I've yet to meet them.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Horstman" <horkster@XXXXXX>

> Paul Wilson wrote:
> >
> > Rear tire changes are so easy on the VFR, un-do five bolts (OK, you do
have
> > to take off the exhaust can if it's a low mount) and the tire is free.
>
> I'd love to see a similar set-up on the front, as well.  Hasn't
> someone come up with a work-able single-sided front control arm
> yet?  It's about time someone did.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 12:57:50 2002
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From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: sort of o/t: photographer help wanted
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My favorite and most loyal photographer has gone...Niv!
 And here I am, a photo addict, with racing season
about to begin, and I have no photographer.

Here's what I'm looking for.  Someone to borrow my
camera and shoot pictures at summit, or VIR, or where
ever you may be.  I provide the film and the
camera...you take the shots.  

If anyone will be at summit or VIR and wishes to help
out, I'll pay your entry fee to the track.

Laura


________________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 13:08:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:08:04 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Paul Wilson wrote:
> 
> SS Front Fork:  Was it not tried by Yamaha and rejected by the "motorcycling
> public," whoever those people are.  I've yet to meet them.

Nah, it was rejected because it was a serious sport-touring bike
that was handicapped by having a chain and sprockets.  Damned shame,
as it was quite an interesting bike otherwise.  :)

Horkster
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 13:20:47 2002
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Subject: RE: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)
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I also seem to recall reading about (in Brit m/c mags, I think) about center hub or hub steering (or something like that) motorcycles that essentially had swingarms at both ends.  Funky, but in a cool way.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chris Weaver chris_vtr@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:48:20 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)


Yeah, I think the GTS1000 had that, didn't it? I would
think the only logistical problem is if you want
better braking, you have difficulty mounting a second
brake disk. I suspect that's why the Honda concept
bike "NAS" aka "Xaxis" has a rim-mounted brake disk.

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 13:39:22 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)
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There was a Bimota a few years ago that used a "swingarm/shock" setup for
front.

I believe the idea was to separate front suspension from steering.

I have not seen that bike on the street, my guess is because it was WAY too
expensive.  So I don't know how well it performed.

I think there are some concept/limited production bikes out there that still
use that.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)


I also seem to recall reading about (in Brit m/c mags, I think) about center
hub or hub steering (or something like that) motorcycles that essentially
had swingarms at both ends.  Funky, but in a cool way.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chris Weaver chris_vtr@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:48:20 -0800 (PST)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)


Yeah, I think the GTS1000 had that, didn't it? I would
think the only logistical problem is if you want
better braking, you have difficulty mounting a second
brake disk. I suspect that's why the Honda concept
bike "NAS" aka "Xaxis" has a rim-mounted brake disk.

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 14:07:56 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:07:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)
To: dccycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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That was the Bimota Tesi, of which there were
apparently a couple of versions. There's the ES on
this page:
http://www.burningart.com/meico/motoproto/tesi.html
and I recall a 1D model I think. 

Chris Weaver

--- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> There was a Bimota a few years ago that used a
> "swingarm/shock" setup for
> front.
> 
> I believe the idea was to separate front suspension
> from steering.
> 
> I have not seen that bike on the street, my guess is
> because it was WAY too
> expensive.  So I don't know how well it performed.
> 
> I think there are some concept/limited production
> bikes out there that still
> use that.
> 
> 
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
> Genna Melamed
> Please note that my email is changing to
> genna@XXXXXX
>
----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 1:20 PM
> Subject: RE: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain
> tightening)
> 
> 
> I also seem to recall reading about (in Brit m/c
> mags, I think) about center
> hub or hub steering (or something like that)
> motorcycles that essentially
> had swingarms at both ends.  Funky, but in a cool
> way.
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Chris Weaver chris_vtr@XXXXXX
> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 09:48:20 -0800 (PST)
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Single Sided Fork (was: Chain tightening)
> 
> 
> Yeah, I think the GTS1000 had that, didn't it? I
> would
> think the only logistical problem is if you want
> better braking, you have difficulty mounting a
> second
> brake disk. I suspect that's why the Honda concept
> bike "NAS" aka "Xaxis" has a rim-mounted brake disk.
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 14:34:28 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:34:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Criswell Opinions...?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Well, you asked for "anything" so here goes:

While spending a summer working at Coleman/Powerride,
I knew a mechanic who left Powerride after a series of
overtime pay disputes.  He subsequently went to work
at Criswell.  Two or three weeks later he was back at
Powerride.  Unfortunately, I don't know the exact
reason for why he returned.  Still, it's very
interesting that a mechanic would want to leave
Criswell and return to Coleman/Powerride after such a
short stay.  

Adam Reinhardt
89 CBR
92 GS 500 (until g/f finishes MSF)

> 
> From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
> <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: bloody salesmen
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:22:36 -0600
> 
> 
>  >>> "Rob Keiser" wrote SNIP
> 
>  >was wondering  what the list impression is of
> Criswell Power Sports in 
> Gaithersburg.
> 
> I have been up there a few times, I thought they
> were supposed to move into 
> a new location and have a multi-vendor dealership.
> From what I have seen at 
> their current location, behind all the Criswell car
> dealerships, there are 
> never any customers looking at or buying bikes when
> I have been there and 
> they have virtually no accessories dept, and all the
> bikes are packed in a 
> very small space.
> 
> I have heard that Criswell is a good organization,
> but since it is mainly a 
> car dealership business I would wonder about the
> "car business" mentality.
> 
> Are you looking for a sales job there? if that's the
> case and they are 
> staying in that location I wouldn't do it.
> 
> Besides you need to sell Honda's
> 
> George
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
_________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print
> your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
> 


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 14:48:04 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:48:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> For the record, I probably (unconsciously) cover the
> clutch/brake when I'm leaned over moderately.  Certainly
> when I'm "street riding."  And even when I'm out in "real
> world" twisties.  But if I'm hanging off and trying to
> lay down a sparkie trail, I'm guessing I've got all four
> fingers wrapped around the grips (but can't confirm since
> I've never bothered to look!)

if your goal is to lay down a "sparkie trail," consider
resisting the urge to hang off



--
tg (no sparkie trails from 996 unless bike sliding on
pavement)


> --- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
> wrote:
> > I missed the beginning of this thread, but I cover the
> > clutch (and brake) ~100% of the time when I am near
> > vertical and/or cruising around in traffic.  The only
> > time that I knowlingly don't have either or both
> covered
> > is when I'm leaned hard over in a turn.
> >
> > Are Gimer and I actually agreeing on something???  The
> > end of the world is near!!!
> 
> no.  my answer is the same whether i'm leaned over or
> not.


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 14:58:08 2002
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Ah, TG ... You mistakenly assume that I wish to send up a shower of sparkies using the hard parts of my m/c ... NOT!  Sparkie sliders, dude ... wahoo!

Original Message:

if your goal is to lay down a "sparkie trail," consider
resisting the urge to hang off

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 15:03:01 2002
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Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 15:02:31 -0500
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tg has been riding with a Bandito...he's used to seeing sparks from the hard
metal parts on my bike.

--jon
01 Suz Bandit 1200

> -----Original Message-----
> From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX [mailto:cvkgpena@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:58 PM
> To: t_gimer@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
>
>
> Ah, TG ... You mistakenly assume that I wish to send up a shower
> of sparkies using the hard parts of my m/c ... NOT!  Sparkie
> sliders, dude ... wahoo!
>
> Original Message:
>
> if your goal is to lay down a "sparkie trail," consider
> resisting the urge to hang off
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 15:24:07 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 15:23:08 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: clutch - braking thread
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Cc: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Tom Gimer wrote:

> if your goal is to lay down a "sparkie trail," consider
> resisting the urge to hang off

I can lay down a "sparkie trail" just by pushing down
the centerstand tang with my foot while moving.  It's pretty 
effective at scaring off tailgaters at night.  :)

Horkster
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 15:31:22 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
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--- Jon Strang <jmstrang@XXXXXX> wrote:
> tg has been riding with a Bandito...he's used to seeing
> sparks from the hard
> metal parts on my bike.

correct.  i don't ride with folks who drag their knees on
the pavement simply for visual effects.


--
tg


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
> [mailto:cvkgpena@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 2:58 PM
> > To: t_gimer@XXXXXX; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE:clutch - braking thread
> >
> >
> > Ah, TG ... You mistakenly assume that I wish to send up
> a shower
> > of sparkies using the hard parts of my m/c ... NOT! 
> Sparkie
> > sliders, dude ... wahoo!
> >
> > Original Message:
> >
> > if your goal is to lay down a "sparkie trail," consider
> > resisting the urge to hang off


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 16:10:16 2002
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You are no fun! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------

correct.  i don't ride with folks who drag their knees on
the pavement simply for visual effects.

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 16:20:07 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 13:20:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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You must be one of those "elite" bikers! I really wish
I could meet you and shake your hand!

Your strict moral code* is awe-inspring. You don't
clutter up your life with trite, overused emotions
such as good humor or joie de vivre. You live the
somber, devoted, self-flaggelating existence of the
ultimate hardcore sportbiker.

Your overwhelming humility is also admirable to the
masses. I wish I could be you.

Chris Weaver

*I almost kept a straight face as I typed that phrase.


--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> correct.  i don't ride with folks who drag their
> knees on
> the pavement simply for visual effects.
> --
> tg


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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 16:20:45 2002
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Subject: Lucky
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Forgot to mention my lucky morning.  Came around backroad Clifton corner 
(Newman Rd. for those that know) to face Mr. Officer and his radar 
gun.  49/35.  Slow down and have a nice day.  Gotta love bike cops ;-)


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 17:03:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 14:03:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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<scene: chuck's knight in shining armor, perched high atop
his steed, suddenly appears from the left, entering the
fray to protect his little bitch>


--- Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> You must be one of those "elite" bikers! I really wish
> I could meet you and shake your hand!

i'm in bethesda, and happily give out handshakes during my
lunch break (~1pm-115pm)



> Your strict moral code* is awe-inspring. You don't
> clutter up your life with trite, overused emotions
> such as good humor or joie de vivre. You live the
> somber, devoted, self-flaggelating existence of the
> ultimate hardcore sportbiker.

sorry.  you've got me mixed up with someone who DOESN'T
spend 60+ hours per week in the office....

email certainly has a way of masking the true
identity/character of the writer....  i would suggest to
you that i'm nothing like you've described.  in fact, i
think you know better--> that most of these exchanges are
in the spirit of humor....


> Your overwhelming humility is also admirable to the
> masses. I wish I could be you.

again, sorry.  you're stuck with what you've got....and
last i heard it was head-over-heels love!  some people are
never satisfied.....


--
tg

> Chris Weaver
> 
> *I almost kept a straight face as I typed that phrase.
> 
> 
> --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > correct.  i don't ride with folks who drag their
> > knees on
> > the pavement simply for visual effects.


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 17:20:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:21:18 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
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At 04:20 PM 4/2/2002, Chris Weaver wrote:
>.... You live the somber, devoted, self-flaggelating existence ....

Injecting self-flaggelation into dc-cycles? What's next -- booze?

Chris, you're supposed to have put all those concepts
behind you. 'Tis the high road from now on, bucko.

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 17:20:24 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:19:40 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Lucky
To: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
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Troutman wrote:
> 
> Forgot to mention my lucky morning.  Came around backroad Clifton corner
> (Newman Rd. for those that know) to face Mr. Officer and his radar
> gun.  49/35.  Slow down and have a nice day.  Gotta love bike cops ;-)

Wow.  I've occasionally seen cops standing at the stopsign intersection
in Clifton checking county stickers and such, but I've never seen one
running radar.  It's cool that he let you go.

Gonna head that way shortly.  Ahh, the commute beckons!  :)

Horkster
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 17:21:24 2002
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Lucky/City Riding
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 17:21:23 -0500 
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Last night I was going down 15th St towards Constitution and it's pretty
much a parking lot with a lot of room on the right.  The turn lane to E St
doesn't really exist any more and after that there's vendors parked in the
right hand lane right against the curb, leaving a decent amount of room
behind them.  I usually ride there.   I turned off G onto 15th and promptly
got behind a bicycle policeman riding down the right hand side.  He seemed
to have no problem with me tailing him.  He stopped at E St to talk to his
fellow officers.  I continue down.  I get to the end where the right turn
lane starts.  At this point I usually go inbetween it and the 2nd to right
hand lane and make a right on red.  When I get there the car to my left
doesn't want me getting in front of him, I can tell this by the way he's
inching up.  So I look at him.  He's starring at me from his white
Lumina/Corisca he then proceeds to flip down his passengers sun visor to
show me the RED & BLUE lights hidden underneath.  He pointed for me to get
in front of him/in line.  He was wearing a tie.  I don't think he was a
police officer, I think he was one of the dozens of organizations that gets
lights for there cars in the city, I didn't get a look at his plates.  The
light turned green and I waited to see if he wanted to go first he waved me
on, so I proceeded.  So I guess the authorities don't like lane filtering
but don't consider it worth there time to punish.

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 17:39:48 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 17:51:10 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Criswell Opinions...?
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At 09:31 AM 4/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Thanks, George, for the Only response.  I guess people were turned off by 
>the last subject heading, so I changed it this time.
>
>Yes, I'm looking at sales for now, but eventually would like to get into all 
>aspects of the business.
>
>A new location, and picking up Honda are in the works, but won't be until a 
>little later in the season, from what they've told me so far.  I'll go into 
>more later if I take the position and learn anything new.
>
>So, for the rest of the list....any opinions on Criswell Power Sports?
>Anything, anyone...
>
>  "Anyone....anyone...Bueller...Bueller???"

I stopped in there once.  They were nice guys and reasonably helpful (not
as helpful as the cute girl at Cycles USA, but I digress ;-)  Anyway, I
think it would be tough to sell any bikes there, due to the very small area
where you'll be forced to work.

When I talked to the mgr, he said something about 3-4 months (this was Feb)
until they move to their big location in Germantown.

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 19:20:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:20:51 -0500
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: re:  bloody salesmen
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:20:53 -0800 (PST)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: bloody salesmen

I was in Clinton Cycles to pick up a couple dollars worth of parts on
Sat
(snip)
"Now here is a Kawi EX500, and a couple on down is a Suzuki GS500e.
They are far better bikes on which to learn and are very popular with
women and my students for their riding characteristics and low seat
height. I would put them at the top of your list."

Yes,  the EX500 is a good and popular bike for women but I tend to warn
other women away from it.  I had and EX500 and found that it was a little
too top-heavy.  I moved on to a ZX-6 after the EX and had a much easier time
with it.  Seat height on the ZX is much lower and thus it is an easier bike
to manuever.  On more than one occasion I had a parking lot gravity related
issue with the EX but never had any problems with the ZX.  I am 5.5 feet
tall and would suggest the ZX-6 for anyone with comparable height.


Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR750



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 21:14:53 2002
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Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 21:11:26 -0500
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Thomas Jordan <thomasajordan@XXXXXX>
Subject: Allsports GP coupons.. Someone may be interested...
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I was approached by some sales weenies today while I was at work.. 
They were selling coupons for Allsports GP.. $39.99 gets you three 
free "arrive and drive" sessions, and 8 "but 1 get 1" coupons. I was 
told that the buy1get1 coupons could be used for arrive&drive, 
sprint, whatever... If any of you are interested, call 571-245-9507 
and leave a message for Tony...
-- 

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 21:17:11 2002
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Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 21:02:50 -0500
From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
CC: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: clutch - braking thread
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TG,

We all know you are the epitomy of the ultimate real world sportbiker. 
We are in awe of your superior abilities.  Your place in the hall of 
fame is assured.  We are ever so grateful that you deign to grace this 
list with your wit and wisdom.

... NOT!

Lighten up, dude.  Get a life.  You are so tight assed, I don't know how 
you manage to always stick your head so far up it.  Hopefully, you'll 
decide to pull your head out and come up for air to join us for Bike 
Night in Bethesda on Sunday.  Maybe you can even give out handshakes.

And yes, we all know who you are ... a cretin of the first order.

Feel the love, man! %^)

CP

Tom Gimer wrote: <SNIP>


> email certainly has a way of masking the true
> identity/character of the writer....  i would suggest to
> you that i'm nothing like you've described.  in fact, i
> think you know better--> that most of these exchanges are
> in the spirit of humor....




From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 21:36:35 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
To: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Air Hose Revenge / Battley's compliment
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 20:39:44 -0500
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Some may recall my groaning about the growing plethora of "straight in" air
hoses at service stations -- their inability to fit my bike's valves because
of limited clearance between the valves and brake rotor/drum without a
potentially damaging bending of the valve.


Last weekend I made an annual spring wandering to Battley's and, easing by
Parts, happened to inquire about a cure (short of permanently angled stems):
Probably an angle fitting for use only at pressure-taking or filling.


After a false start (wrong part recommended and ordered by someone else),
today Alex in parts took some time in the catalogs and buttonholed an
associate who eventually said "why not try a tire dealer" and mentioned
Bruce Tire (in the indus park with the video store at the light before
Battleys).


Done.  After many tire-filling headaches, I now have a little bent extender
that temporarily screws on and does the job (it has an internal "centerpoint
depresser").  Informally called a "Dually truck valve extension" at $7.30.
Chances are any tire dealer or possibly Trak.


So.  Kudos to me, Alex who took the problem to heart, and fie on straight
hoses.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 --> Happy.  That hurts when my stems get bent.
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 22:03:18 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: pawilson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 22:03:11 -0500
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hehehe  :)  YES!

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:06:16 -0500

Ah, yet more proof of the superiority of the single-sided swingarm...

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephen cutchins" <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
 >
 > Manufacturers, particulary Suzuki, tend to make the
 > swingarms a little wider than necessary so you can
 > slide the rear wheel in easily.  When you tighten the
 > axle nut, you bend the swingarm in, which pushed the
 > axle, tire, and thus chain, farther back.




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 22:06:20 2002
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Fwd: Re: clutch - braking thread
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>At 09:02 PM 4/2/2002, Chuck wrote:
>
>>We all know you are the epitomy ...
>
>Clearly you haven't spent enough time watching the "Ernest Goes to 
>College" ilk of movies, or you'd know it's the "epitome of excellence." Sniff.
>
>-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  2 22:22:50 2002
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From: "Clifford Zigmond" <cliffzig@XXXXXX>
To: <RichH@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <B44AFA05313BD411B64E00508B8B4BD50130EDFC@SERVER1>
Subject: Re: Lucky/City Riding
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 22:10:54 -0500
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I'm with you all the way.  15th Street has become a complete and total
cluster-f&%k since Friday.  What gives, all of a sudden traffic is 2x as bad
as it was before.  And someone flashed their red/blues at me today too.  I
didn't give it a second thought and kept filtering.  If they want me let
them come get me.  Good luck to them in that traffic.  All I can say is, I
do it because I CAN.

Cliff

----- Original Message -----
From: <RichH@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Lucky/City Riding


> Last night I was going down 15th St towards Constitution and it's pretty
> much a parking lot with a lot of room on the right.  The turn lane to E St
> doesn't really exist any more and after that there's vendors parked in the
> right hand lane right against the curb, leaving a decent amount of room
> behind them.  I usually ride there.   I turned off G onto 15th and
promptly
> got behind a bicycle policeman riding down the right hand side.  He seemed
> to have no problem with me tailing him.  He stopped at E St to talk to his
> fellow officers.  I continue down.  I get to the end where the right turn
> lane starts.  At this point I usually go inbetween it and the 2nd to right
> hand lane and make a right on red.  When I get there the car to my left
> doesn't want me getting in front of him, I can tell this by the way he's
> inching up.  So I look at him.  He's starring at me from his white
> Lumina/Corisca he then proceeds to flip down his passengers sun visor to
> show me the RED & BLUE lights hidden underneath.  He pointed for me to get
> in front of him/in line.  He was wearing a tie.  I don't think he was a
> police officer, I think he was one of the dozens of organizations that
gets
> lights for there cars in the city, I didn't get a look at his plates.  The
> light turned green and I waited to see if he wanted to go first he waved
me
> on, so I proceeded.  So I guess the authorities don't like lane filtering
> but don't consider it worth there time to punish.
>

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 01:25:30 2002
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Subject: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
From: Mwalker3@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 01:05:01 -0500
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I will be out of the office starting  04/01/2002 and will not return until
04/11/2002.

I will respond to your message following my return to the office.  If the matter
is urgent, please contact either Richard Mance (tel: (1)(202) 458-1525), or
Judith Ramsay-Williams (tel: (1)(202) 458-5979), who will be able to assist you.

Thank you.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 08:17:04 2002
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From: "Todd Peer" <combat_tourer@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: MD20-20
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 08:05:25 -0500
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From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>

"Louis F. Caplan" wrote:

>There was a little bit of chest thumping before, the direct quote is "any 
>time
>poserboy, you and me! i may have been nursing a damaged bike, but at least 
>i
>RAN the MD2020!"  (DC-Cycles, 13 Mar 02)  Yet I don't see the challenger's
name
>in the list of registered riders; the challenged one has been registered 
>for a
>while.

:)  Hmm, maybe we've identified Racer X?  :)

-------------------------------------------------------
Yeah Racer X, get'cher ass on the list!

>Also, there will be no checkpoints this year.

Interesting.  That really opens up the routing options.

>The Mason Dixon 20-20 will be based in York, PA on Memorial Day weekend.  
>For
>more information, including how to register, go to:
>http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

I highly, highly recommend this rally for anyone considering endurance
riding.  It can be as challenging or as simple as you want it to be, and
the RallyBubbas put on a first class event their first time out last year.

I can't wait for the end of May.  This is gonna be fun.

Hork
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed Dale,

  However, the ST1100 stays home this year.  The Three Amigos will be 
performing a power shoot-out of Suz-Hond-Kawa 650 bangers for 1000 miles 
instead.

  I can't honestly say that "that" will be fun, but it'll give us some 
serious shake-out time together and with our world travelling steeds before 
the BIG event.

  Hope more DC-Cycles types can make this rally.  Believe me, you will 
hate/love and everything in between, and you will be back for more!

Todd (Springfield, VA)

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:03:32 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:03:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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That's not quite it. I simply find you to be an
arrogant prick. The fact that this time you were an
arrogant prick to Chuck doesn't really make any
difference, although I can see how you might have
thought so. Chuck can take care of himself.

Perhaps you really are friendlier in person. All I
have to go on is your comments on this mailing list
and they don't paint a pretty picture.

Chris Weaver


--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> <scene: chuck's knight in shining armor, perched
> high atop
> his steed, suddenly appears from the left, entering
> the
> fray to protect his little bitch>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:09:13 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Clifford Zigmond" <cliffzig@XXXXXX>, <RichH@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Lucky/City Riding
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:09:06 -0500
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The cherry blossoms might have something to do with it.  A total mess down
that way with all the blossom-addled cagers in town.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clifford Zigmond" <cliffzig@XXXXXX>

> I'm with you all the way.  15th Street has become a complete and total
> cluster-f&%k since Friday.  What gives, all of a sudden traffic is 2x as
bad
> as it was before.  And someone flashed their red/blues at me today too.  I
> didn't give it a second thought and kept filtering.  If they want me let
> them come get me.  Good luck to them in that traffic.  All I can say is, I
> do it because I CAN.
>
> Cliff
>



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:11:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:11:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MD20-20
To: Todd Peer <combat_tourer@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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>   However, the ST1100 stays home this year.  The Three Amigos will be 
> performing a power shoot-out of Suz-Hond-Kawa 650 bangers for 1000 miles 
> instead.

Todd, only 1000?  Ya got 36 hrs to play with, how about a BunBurner?  Put the
bike (and your buns) to the test!  

And for the comment about Racer X, (made by you and Dale), Racer X is already
registered.  (see http://www.masondixon20-20.org/riders02.htm)  Let's call the
challenger, oh, I don't know, how about Racer B?  

Louis

=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:37:20 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:37:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread
To: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020403140330.33958.qmail@web11102.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> That's not quite it. I simply find you to be an
> arrogant prick. The fact that this time you were an
> arrogant prick to Chuck doesn't really make any
> difference, although I can see how you might have
> thought so. Chuck can take care of himself.

point out to me where i was an arrogant prick, and if
you're convincing, i'll happily apologize and slither off
until another day.  i think what you'll find, upon
searching the last few weeks'/months' worth of posting, is
that chuck has taken every opportunity to take a cheap shot
at me; and i have been fair in my responses.

note: if pointing out that i don't ride with folks who drag
their knees on the street for kicks qualifies as "arrogant"
in your book, then we'll be hopelessly be locked in debate.



> Perhaps you really are friendlier in person. All I
> have to go on is your comments on this mailing list
> and they don't paint a pretty picture.

to you, apparently.  it may be that you are one of the few
who is taking everything i say to heart.




> --- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > <scene: chuck's knight in shining armor, perched
> > high atop
> > his steed, suddenly appears from the left, entering
> > the
> > fray to protect his little bitch>


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:39:33 2002
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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
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References: <OFA0D140DA.29E7D395-ON85256B90.00216B35@worldbank.org>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
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Here we go again!!!



----- Original Message -----
From: <Mwalker3@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 1:05 AM
Subject: Mark Walker is Out of the Office


> I will be out of the office starting  04/01/2002 and will not return until
> 04/11/2002.
>
> I will respond to your message following my return to the office.  If the
matter
> is urgent, please contact either Richard Mance (tel: (1)(202) 458-1525),
or
> Judith Ramsay-Williams (tel: (1)(202) 458-5979), who will be able to
assist you.
>
> Thank you.
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:41:46 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 06:41:41 -0800 (PST)
From: rdrdr <rydin@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: rydin@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: photographer
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Hey Laura, thanks for the compliments. I'm in Australia and my little sister had me acting as official photographer at her wedding here. 13 rolls of film, mostly black and white, mostly 36 exposures each - nice, but nothing was moving fast at all. 

MC content: Think I'm gonna rent me something for a day trip this weekend...

Niv



---------------------------------
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<P>Hey Laura, thanks for the compliments. I'm in Australia and my little sister had me acting as official photographer at her wedding here. 13 rolls of film, mostly black and white, mostly 36 exposures each - nice, but nothing was moving fast at all. </P>
<P>MC content: Think I'm gonna rent me something for a day trip this weekend...</P>
<P>Niv</P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="$rd_url/welcome/?http://taxes.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Tax Center</a> - online filing with TurboTax
--0-904239853-1017844901=:58313--

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:55:00 2002
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'alauro@XXXXXX'" <alauro@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Weekend
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 09:53:43 -0500 
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Weather permitting (and I haven't really checked beyond Thursday) I'm
thinking about a run out 211 to Sperryville turn around and hit 688 to 17,
Rt 50 to the ridge up over Weather Mountain, Rt 7 to Snickersville trnpk to
15 @ Gilberts Corners...  it's about 110 miles and it's as a leisurely 78
BMW R80/7 can be.

Sometimes I go to Madison or up 522 to Front Royal, hit 55 for a spell then
688 to Orlean and back 211 thru Warrenton and over to 28 which puts me close
to my garage (Manassas Area). 

I tend to stick to the Virginia Byway roads.  They're not fast, the traffic
is moderate, the edges tend to be rotten but the views are good.

I do have to change out my petcock and float bowl gaskets.

If anyone is interested we could meet at the restaurant on the corner of 29
business and 211 in Warrenton.  

Geo





From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 09:58:30 2002
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rdrdr wrote

> 
> <P>Hey Laura, thanks for the compliments. 

We miss you, Niv!!!!!

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:01:09 2002
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From: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
To: "'Ricardo Pontes'" <ricardopontes@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Graduated Licensing
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:00:10 -0500 
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Japan does it...  along with hefty taxes on the larger displacement models.
Hence a bunch of people are running Honda 50cc scoots around... with the
milk basket bungeed to the little rack on the back.  You have to take a
riding course of instruction, a written exam and a road test for each level.
It does get pricey as you are paying your way up the ladder, not just in
courses but in hardware (i.e. the different displacements you are
replacing).  Sort of like advancing thru martial arts training.  

We could start a scooter club web site?

NOT.

>There should be lisences for every size of bike. 50cc, 250, 500, 600, 1000,
|>1200+. Gradually getting all the licenses to get to the heavy bikes.

every size? 50, 70,  80, 125, 250, 350, 450, 550, 600, 650, 700, 750,
800, 850? 900, 929, 950, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300. whever else i left
out.




From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:06:11 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread  

Chris Commented -

--- Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> That's not quite it. I simply find you to be an
> arrogant prick. 

To which, Gimer replied -

point out to me where i was an arrogant prick, and if
you're convincing, i'll happily apologize and slither off
until another day.

  <DJY>  'Slither' is kind of derogatory ; that is the form of 
locomotion of snakes, and reptiles which serve a useful purpose in 
the biosphere.  Snakes will leave you alone, if you leave them alone 
(unless you're a prey animal), and snakes eliminate & eat rodents & 
vermin...  OTOH, lawyers...  well, it goes without saying... ;-) 
 

  i think what you'll find, upon
searching the last few weeks'/months' worth of posting, is
that chuck has taken every opportunity to take a cheap shot
at me; and i have been fair in my responses.


   <DJY>  I believe most of Chuck's jabs have been suffixed with some 
form of emoticon, indicating he wasn't serious.  OR, it was just an 
elaborate ruse to fool everyone... who knows..  

I rather enjoy when Chuck takes a cheap shot at me ;-) Which is 
pretty much every mail he writes in response to anything I say ;-) 

Ah well...  back to slaving over a hot keyboard...

Dave




--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:09:33 2002
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At 09:53 AM 4/3/2002, Bruhl, George LT wrote:

>Weather permitting (and I haven't really checked beyond Thursday) I'm
>thinking about a run out 211 to Sperryville turn around and hit 688 to 17,
>Rt 50 to the ridge up over Weather Mountain, Rt 7 to Snickersville trnpk to
>15 @ Gilberts Corners...  it's about 110 miles and it's as a leisurely 78
>BMW R80/7 can be.

I'm in...made that run last Thursday and the roads are in good shape all 
around.



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:30:10 2002
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From: "motocox200" <ecox@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
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You think the VFR is easy?  Try taking the wheel off of a Hawk GT.  
2 bolts, and one is the can.  EASY!

Eben
95 VFR
88 Hawk GT
dirt bikes...


--- In dc-cycles@y..., "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@h...> wrote:
> hehehe  :)  YES!
> 
> Rob
> '98 VFR800
> 
> 
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@s...>
> To: <dc-cycles@d...>
> Subject: Re: Chain tightening
> Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2002 11:06:16 -0500
> 
> Ah, yet more proof of the superiority of the single-sided 
swingarm...
> 
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "stephen cutchins" <stephen_cutchins@y...>
>  >
>  > Manufacturers, particulary Suzuki, tend to make the
>  > swingarms a little wider than necessary so you can
>  > slide the rear wheel in easily.  When you tighten the
>  > axle nut, you bend the swingarm in, which pushed the
>  > axle, tire, and thus chain, farther back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: 
http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:32:16 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread  
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
> Chris Commented -
> 
> --- Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > That's not quite it. I simply find you to be an
> > arrogant prick. 
> 
> To which, Gimer replied -
> 
> point out to me where i was an arrogant prick, and if
> you're convincing, i'll happily apologize and slither off
> until another day.
> 
>   <DJY>  'Slither' is kind of derogatory ; that is the
> form of 
> locomotion of snakes, and reptiles which serve a useful
> purpose in 
> the biosphere.  Snakes will leave you alone, if you leave
> them alone 
> (unless you're a prey animal), and snakes eliminate & eat
> rodents & 
> vermin...  OTOH, lawyers...  well, it goes without
> saying... ;-) 

i was being self-flagellating for mr. weaver....



>   i think what you'll find, upon
> searching the last few weeks'/months' worth of posting,
> is
> that chuck has taken every opportunity to take a cheap
> shot
> at me; and i have been fair in my responses.
> 
> 
>    <DJY>  I believe most of Chuck's jabs have been
> suffixed with some 
> form of emoticon, indicating he wasn't serious.  OR, it
> was just an 
> elaborate ruse to fool everyone... who knows..  

yes, correct....that silly goddamn %^) he uses

and i respond each time with only a slightly biting
remark....  if i took what chuck was saying personally
(please go re-read his last 10 posts to me), i'd be in
anger management class.  sheesh



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:33:06 2002
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From: "motocox200" <ecox@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Weekend
Message-ID: <a8f6rk+gjvh@eGroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020403100837.0221d750@mail.troutman.org>
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I've done that loop several times and it is a great afternoon ride.  
If I don't go to Richmond to ride in the dirt, count me in.

Eben 
95 VFR
88 Hawk
Manassas, VA


--- In dc-cycles@y..., Troutman <mike@t...> wrote:
> At 09:53 AM 4/3/2002, Bruhl, George LT wrote:
> 
> >Weather permitting (and I haven't really checked beyond Thursday) 
I'm
> >thinking about a run out 211 to Sperryville turn around and hit 
688 to 17,
> >Rt 50 to the ridge up over Weather Mountain, Rt 7 to Snickersville 
trnpk to
> >15 @ Gilberts Corners...  it's about 110 miles and it's as a 
leisurely 78
> >BMW R80/7 can be.
> 
> I'm in...made that run last Thursday and the roads are in good 
shape all 
> around.
> 
> 
> 
> ___________________________________________
>      Mike Troutman
>           http://www.troutman.org/vfr
> 
>          1997 Honda VFR 750
>          AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:35:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:35:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Weekend
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Can someone post a more detailed route for this? 
Thanks


--- motocox200 <ecox@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I've done that loop several times and it is a great
> afternoon ride.  
> If I don't go to Richmond to ride in the dirt, count
> me in.
> 
> Eben 
> 95 VFR
> 88 Hawk
> Manassas, VA
> 
> 
> --- In dc-cycles@y..., Troutman <mike@t...> wrote:
> > At 09:53 AM 4/3/2002, Bruhl, George LT wrote:
> > 
> > >Weather permitting (and I haven't really checked
> beyond Thursday) 
> I'm
> > >thinking about a run out 211 to Sperryville turn
> around and hit 
> 688 to 17,
> > >Rt 50 to the ridge up over Weather Mountain, Rt 7
> to Snickersville 
> trnpk to
> > >15 @ Gilberts Corners...  it's about 110 miles
> and it's as a 
> leisurely 78
> > >BMW R80/7 can be.
> > 
> > I'm in...made that run last Thursday and the roads
> are in good 
> shape all 
> > around.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___________________________________________
> >      Mike Troutman
> >           http://www.troutman.org/vfr
> > 
> >          1997 Honda VFR 750
> >          AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:36:24 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: registration in va
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:24:57 +0100
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i am going to register my bike in VA.  Do they ask for proof of residence? i 
read the website, and they didn't mention anything about residence.  Or do I 
have to get VA driving licence before being able to register the bike there? 
what kind of proof of residence do they ask for? do i have to have credit 
card bank bills sent over to my va location?
thanks,
pierfrancesco


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldM-^Rs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:47:47 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 07:47:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Erik Seibold <the_bolt_99@XXXXXX>
Subject: Good Scenic Rides ??
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
know any nice routes. 

Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??


Thanks,
   Erik

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:54:51 2002
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www.dccycles.com

At 10:47 AM 4/3/2002, you wrote:
>Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
>wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
>ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
>or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
>know any nice routes.
>
>Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??

___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 10:58:14 2002
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From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
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Go to the area riding link on the DCcycles.com web site.

There are some good ride sheets and maps there.

George

>>> Erik Seibold <the_bolt_99@XXXXXX> 04/03/02 10:47AM >>>
Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
know any nice routes. 

Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??


Thanks,
   Erik

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 11:18:15 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020403105417.02353710@mail.troutman.org>
Subject: Re: Good Scenic Rides ??
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I have 4 routes on my web site www.wilsonline.org/vfr/trips.htm

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Troutman" <mike@XXXXXX>

> www.dccycles.com
> 
> At 10:47 AM 4/3/2002, you wrote:
> >Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
> >wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
> >ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
> >or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
> >know any nice routes.
> >
> >Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
>      Mike Troutman
>          http://www.troutman.org
> 
> 


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 11:32:45 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <F197xegIqunLOyDc41W000024c1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: registration in va
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:32:39 -0500
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It was a joke proving I was a VA resident in 1991.  Basically, I turned in
my Illinois license and they took my word for it.  I imagine things have
gotten a little tougher since 9/11/01 since several of the hijackers had
fraudulently obtained VA DLs.  My experience was downstate, too, where
things tend to be a little more lax.

DC is obnoxious with the proof, two forms of proof, such as utility bills,
and they want to see iron-clad proof of your SSN, such as a Soc. Security
card.  Your out-of-state license won't do.  Why anyone would want to fake
living in DC is a bit of a stretch.  To send their kids to our fine public
schools while living in the 'burbs?  Maybe to get a parking sticker for free
parking or to double-dip on food stamps or something.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: registration in va


> i am going to register my bike in VA.  Do they ask for proof of residence?
i
> read the website, and they didn't mention anything about residence.  Or do
I
> have to get VA driving licence before being able to register the bike
there?
> what kind of proof of residence do they ask for? do i have to have credit
> card bank bills sent over to my va location?
> thanks,
> pierfrancesco
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 11:41:28 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 11:39:01 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Weekend
To: motocox200 <ecox@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Rats, made other plans for Saturday.

Anyone interested in a scenic ride from the Woodbridge Area
over to the Gun Show in Bealton?  $5 to get in, cheap entertainment.  :)

I'll be shopping for a G26, a small fannypack, maybe some ammo.

Horkster

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 11:43:16 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: registration in va
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 11:42:42 -0500
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In-Reply-To: <F197xegIqunLOyDc41W000024c1@hotmail.com>

Pierre,

I brought proof of residence (a phone bill, lease, utility bill, etc.).  I
*believe* they asked for it.  You can do all at the same time (title,
registration, license)....

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pierre C [mailto:piffiffi@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 10:25 AM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: registration in va
>
>
> i am going to register my bike in VA.  Do they ask for proof of
> residence? i
> read the website, and they didn't mention anything about
> residence.  Or do I
> have to get VA driving licence before being able to register the
> bike there?
> what kind of proof of residence do they ask for? do i have to have credit
> card bank bills sent over to my va location?
> thanks,
> pierfrancesco
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the worldM-^Rs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 12:12:29 2002
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Hey all!  Just thought with a beautiful day like this,
I'd remind everyone that racing season is about to make
its way to your neighborhood. So grab your bikes, your
friends, and take a great ride to any of these events
to cheer your local DC Cycles racers on:

April 13-14   CCS at VIR
April 21-22   WERA at summit
May 11-12     CCS Summit
May 23-26     WERA Cycle Jam-VIR
June 8-9      WERA Summit
June 29-30    CCS VIR
July 13-14    CCS Summit
July 27-28    CCS VIR

That's enough to get your calendar started...I hope to
see some of you out at the track!!!!

Laura


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 12:47:52 2002
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OK, everyone.  Let's all take a deep breath and count to 10 and review...

1.  Yes, I take cheap shots at Gimer (DJY too).  But Gimer deserves them more.
2.  Yes, this is all good fun and not meant as a personal assault ... even though Gimer really is a horse's ass (or arrogant prick, take your choice).

Sorry, but I just can't help myself (maybe I should seek counseling).  Baiting and annoying Gimer is just too much fun.  And his responses just crack me up.

Original Message (from Gimer):

> and i respond each time with only a slightly biting
remark....  if i took what chuck was saying personally
(please go re-read his last 10 posts to me), i'd be in
anger management class.  sheesh



--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 12:57:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:56:44 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MD20-20
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: Todd Peer <combat_tourer@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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"Louis F. Caplan" wrote:
> 
> >   However, the ST1100 stays home this year.  The Three Amigos will be
> > performing a power shoot-out of Suz-Hond-Kawa 650 bangers for 1000 miles
> > instead.
> 
> Todd, only 1000?  Ya got 36 hrs to play with, how about a BunBurner?  Put the
> bike (and your buns) to the test!

Is there any special requirement for this?  I mean if I
just show up at the finish with 1500+ miles and get back
in under 36 hours, will the BunBurner be an automatic
thing?  I ask because the BBG last year involved one
specific bonus stop in Georgia.
> 
> And for the comment about Racer X, (made by you and Dale), Racer X is already
> registered.  (see http://www.masondixon20-20.org/riders02.htm)  Let's call the
> challenger, oh, I don't know, how about Racer B?
> 
> Louis
> 
> =====
> "Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
> Fairfax, VA
> Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/
> 
> Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 13:39:42 2002
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: It's the little things in life...
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:38:34 -0500 
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Maybe some of you will get a kick out of this...

My office parking garage is pretty small, and there's really only one
designated M/C space.  Mine.  Unfortunately a lot of the rich old farts in
the same building like to park right next to that spot, each one hanging a
"little" over their space into mine.  Security guard won't do anything about
it and sometimes it's a nightmare getting in and out of the spot because
Four "little over's" means I am surrounded by the Wall Of Car.

Anyway, I had to go to a different office for the end of the day and of
course my poor bike is all trapped behind the Rich Old Fartmobiles;
literally one on each side plus front and back.  I knew I was going to have
tons of fun getting out, and I was annoyed because I have asked them to
knock it off... anyway, I took my anger out on the throttle and the Gods of
Acoustics were smiling on me, because I managed to detonate ALL FOUR of the
car alarms! A new personal record!!!

(then removed bike from said parking space with can opener and regretted
missing seeing them all come down to turn off their alarms)


cheers---

Patti the Easily Amused Lantech

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 13:51:23 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: RE:clutch - braking thread   

Chuck tried desperately to stamp out the smoldering embers -

OK, everyone.  Let's all take a deep breath and count to 10 and 
review...

1.  Yes, I take cheap shots at Gimer (DJY too).  But Gimer deserves 
them more.

   <DJY>  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???  I worked damn hard to get on your 
cheap shots list, Chuck, and THIS is the reward I get?  Bride's maid 
to GIMER?  That's it.  You'd better hope we're not next to each other 
at a light or I'm hittin' your kill switch !  <g>


2.  Yes, this is all good fun and not meant as a personal assault ...
even though Gimer really is a horse's ass (or arrogant prick, take
your choice).

   <DJY>  What woulld (Y)Anker think ?


Sorry, but I just can't help myself (maybe I should seek counseling).
Baiting and annoying Gimer is just too much fun.  And his responses
just crack me up.

  <DJY>  Well, yeah...  
  still, you're using Gimer as -
  http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame65.html

  Better double up on the zoloft, Chuck !

Dave





--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:11:09 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:10:11 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MD20-20
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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"Louis F. Caplan" wrote:

> And for the comment about Racer X, (made by you and Dale), Racer X is already
> registered.  (see http://www.masondixon20-20.org/riders02.htm)  Let's call the
> challenger, oh, I don't know, how about Racer B?

Oh, I don't know, he rides a Harley.  How about Racer Wanna B?  :)

Grinning, ducking and running...  :)

Horkster
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:12:18 2002
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From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: the_bolt_99@XXXXXX
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Subject: Re: Good Scenic Rides ??
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In case no one has suggested it, check out the dc-cycles.org home page.  There's a sections with ride sheets on it.  I know it's not all of them but, it's a good start.

Scooter

In a message dated Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:50:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_bolt_99@XXXXXX writes:

> 
> 
> Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
> wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
> ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
> or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
> know any nice routes. 
> 
> Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??
> 
> 
> Thanks,
>   Erik
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/ 



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:14:35 2002
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Oops...my bad.  Dc-cycles.org puts you on the mailing list home page.  dccycles.com puts you on the group home page.  That's got the list.  Sorry.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Wed, 3 Apr 2002 10:50:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_bolt_99@XXXXXX writes:

> 
> 
> Now that some great riding weather is coming I was
> wondering if people could post some detailed routes to
> ride. I just moved to VA not to long ago. Went on one
> or two rides out here and what to do more. But I don't
> know any nice routes. 
> 
> Is there a website for nice rides in VA somewhere ??
> 
> 
> Thanks,
>   Erik
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/ 



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:17:33 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: RE:clutch - braking thread   
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:15:26 -0500
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Mr. Gimer does have the enviable distinction of being the only person on the
list who's been turned into a verb.  Gimered, yes.  Penaed or Yatesed, it
just doesn't have the same ring to it.  :)  Ankered, now there's a
possibility.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>



> Chuck tried desperately to stamp out the smoldering embers -
>
> OK, everyone.  Let's all take a deep breath and count to 10 and
> review...
>
> 1.  Yes, I take cheap shots at Gimer (DJY too).  But Gimer deserves
> them more.
>
>    <DJY>  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???  I worked damn hard to get on your
> cheap shots list, Chuck, and THIS is the reward I get?  Bride's maid
> to GIMER?  That's it.  You'd better hope we're not next to each other
> at a light or I'm hittin' your kill switch !  <g>
>
>
> 2.  Yes, this is all good fun and not meant as a personal assault ...
> even though Gimer really is a horse's ass (or arrogant prick, take
> your choice).
>
>    <DJY>  What woulld (Y)Anker think ?
>
>
> Sorry, but I just can't help myself (maybe I should seek counseling).
> Baiting and annoying Gimer is just too much fun.  And his responses
> just crack me up.
>
>   <DJY>  Well, yeah...
>   still, you're using Gimer as -
>   http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame65.html
>
>   Better double up on the zoloft, Chuck !
>
> Dave


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:19:56 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:18:07 -0500
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Woe is me, I'm thinking, I have to visit the DMV.  The trailer tag for
our boat race club rescue boat had expired - like 2 years ago.  Yep,
we've been towing it to races on a dead tag.  Methinks the big red
letters RESCUE on the boat sides kept the LEOs at bay.  But I was given
the task of getting new tags of the permenent kind.  So I left work
early in anticipation of the typical wait at DMV.

I'm not lying, I was in and out in less than ten minutes!   Got my
number ticket and barely had the chair warm when my number came up.
Lady takes my form and money, taps the keyboard, slaps the tag and
registration on the counter and sez "Happy motoring"

Whoa, speedy service and a smile!!!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:29:43 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:27:54 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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Does one of our female listers have a rather interesting occupation?

Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.  Hmm... appears to be a
female rider from the curve of her posterior and almost down-to-the-ass
hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but wait!  Minutes later
I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and I spy the bike again.
Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's backing and filling to
turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the *hottie* range.  And
I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there yesterday!

Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the CCR = Crystal City
Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals allows a number of
females to demonstrate their dancing skills while attired in a G-string
and pasties.

So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:39:44 2002
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Bill,

A more than worthy suggestion, except:

1.  I am a gun owner
2.  My wife knows where all the guns are
3.  I taught my wife how to shoot them all

Nope, gonna have to leave this "must do" project up to my pal Kitchell.

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: William J. Huson bhuson@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:27:54 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Okay, fess up!


Does one of our female listers have a rather interesting occupation?

Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.  Hmm... appears to be a
female rider from the curve of her posterior and almost down-to-the-ass
hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but wait!  Minutes later
I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and I spy the bike again.
Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's backing and filling to
turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the *hottie* range.  And
I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there yesterday!

Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the CCR = Crystal City
Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals allows a number of
females to demonstrate their dancing skills while attired in a G-string
and pasties.

So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!

Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:42:36 2002
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CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: registration in va
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Oh yeah, since 9/11 one needs a videotape off thier home complete with VA state
trooper holding up a sign with your official VA addy, at least five official
documents, mortgage papers, utility bills and the like.  And they verify your
age by having you assume the buns up kneeling position and counting the rings in
your asshole!  But it's not that bad, unless the A-ring counter is a recently
hired defrocked priest.

Just kidding... I think...

Bill

Pierre C wrote:

> i am going to register my bike in VA.  Do they ask for proof of residence? i
> read the website, and they didn't mention anything about residence.  Or do I
> have to get VA driving licence before being able to register the bike there?
> what kind of proof of residence do they ask for? do i have to have credit
> card bank bills sent over to my va location?
> thanks,
> pierfrancesco
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the worldM-^Rs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:46:33 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:44:43 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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Yes, I have a similer problem:

1.  No guns.
2.  My wife doesn't need one
3.  She can kick my ass without even breaking  sweat.

Okay, Mark, over to you :-)

Bill

cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:

> Bill,
>
> A more than worthy suggestion, except:
>
> 1.  I am a gun owner
> 2.  My wife knows where all the guns are
> 3.  I taught my wife how to shoot them all
>
> Nope, gonna have to leave this "must do" project up to my pal Kitchell.
>
> Chuck
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: William J. Huson bhuson@XXXXXX
> Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:27:54 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Okay, fess up!
>
> Does one of our female listers have a rather interesting occupation?
>
> Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.  Hmm... appears to be a
> female rider from the curve of her posterior and almost down-to-the-ass
> hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but wait!  Minutes later
> I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and I spy the bike again.
> Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's backing and filling to
> turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
> breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the *hottie* range.  And
> I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there yesterday!
>
> Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the CCR = Crystal City
> Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals allows a number of
> females to demonstrate their dancing skills while attired in a G-string
> and pasties.
>
> So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
> on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
> Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!
>
> Bill
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:52:23 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:51:29 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: clutch - braking thread
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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 <006c01c1db44$52006060$bb82fea9@palladio1>

Paul Wilson wrote:
> 
> Mr. Gimer does have the enviable distinction of being the only person on the
> list who's been turned into a verb.  Gimered, yes.  Penaed or Yatesed, it
> just doesn't have the same ring to it.  :)  Ankered, now there's a
> possibility.

Through no small effort on the part of Yours Truly, it is
now possible to "Pull a Horkster" in endurance riding events.  :)

Horkster
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:52:58 2002
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Subject: Good Scenic DC Lunchtime Rides
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Someone asked about rides from downtown DC the other day.  It might not be
the greatest but I like to take the GW parkway towards McLean, get off on
123 towards the Chain Bridge, take a right after the bridge onto Canal St
which dumps you out into Georgetown.  It takes about 1/2 hour to complete.

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 14:58:59 2002
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On Wed, 03 April 2002, "William J. Huson" wrote

> 
> Does one of our female listers have a rather
interesting occupation?
> 
> Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM. 
Hmm... appears to be a
> female rider from the curve of her 

me owns a yellow suzuki sportbike...


>Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
> breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the
*hottie* range.  

Umm, not me...

> 
> females to demonstrate their dancing skills while
attired in a G-string
> and pasties.

I've thought about it, but Roach didn't like the idea
too much
> 
> So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not,
Chuck, Mark, get
> on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince
her to attend Bike
> Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!

Bill: why don't you print up a dc cycles flyer and
stick it on her bike???

LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 15:03:53 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: clutch - braking thread  

Hork bragged -
 
Through no small effort on the part of Yours Truly, it is
now possible to "Pull a Horkster" in endurance riding events.  :)

  <DJY>  So, the victim or one most affected would have 
been 'Horked', right ?  ;-)

Dave 




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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 15:05:10 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: looking for that '93 nighthawk
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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unfortunately Yahoo mail's reaper RM'd my email before I could go dig
back thru my trash. I met a guy today who's been out of MC's for 2
years and is very keen on getting back in. He really likes the NH. If
anyone has a line on a 'tame' 600cc class bike, he'd consider that too.
Others on the list are ZR-7 and similar.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 15:24:02 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Life's little victories

Patti relayed -
Maybe some of you will get a kick out of this...

...a lot of the rich old farts in the same building like to park 
right next to that spot, each one hanging a "little" over their space 
into mine.  ... I am surrounded by the Wall Of Car.
... my poor bike is all trapped behind the Rich Old Fartmobiles;
literally one on each side plus front and back.  I knew I was going 
to have tons of fun getting out, and I was annoyed because I have 
asked them to knock it off... anyway, I took my anger out on the 
throttle and the Gods of Acoustics were smiling on me, because I 
managed to detonate ALL FOUR of the
car alarms! A new personal record!!!

  <DJY> Indeed, that IS impressive.  Even with my old big block 
Cougar, with token mufflers, the most I set off at one time was 2, 
but it was a pretty regular event...  Particularly when I entered a 
shopping center parking lot...  
We can only hope they had the fancy shmancy pager alarms :-) 

Dave 


(then removed bike from said parking space with can opener and 
regretted
missing seeing them all come down to turn off their alarms)




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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 15:36:21 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Parking downtown if you work for the State department
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I don't know if anyone here works for State (I just started as a
contractor 3 or so weeks ago) but at SA-1 which is 1 block from main
State, all you need to do is flash your state badge and you can park
under what they call the 'high-rise' in the garage. About a dozen spots
for MC's.


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:02:51 2002
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Subject: RE: Good Scenic DC Lunchtime Rides
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Good scenic DC lunchtime rides:

- Archibald's
- Joanna's
- Camelot

The full Monty! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------

Someone asked about rides from downtown DC the other day.  It might not be
the greatest but I like to take the GW parkway towards McLean, get off on
123 towards the Chain Bridge, take a right after the bridge onto Canal St
which dumps you out into Georgetown.  It takes about 1/2 hour to complete.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:08:18 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:08:16 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: MD20-20
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Todd, only 1000?  Ya got 36 hrs to play with, how about a BunBurner?  Put
> > the bike (and your buns) to the test!
> 
> Is there any special requirement for this?  I mean if I
> just show up at the finish with 1500+ miles and get back
> in under 36 hours, will the BunBurner be an automatic
> thing?  I ask because the BBG last year involved one
> specific bonus stop in Georgia.

Rick Miller is the one who set up the course for the SS1000, and BB, but my
guess is that there will be a one or a few "bonus" stops to prove you went the
route.  It gives the rider some of the fun (especially with our theme, so they
can get some of it).  Especially those who never rode in a real rally before. 
That is for the people who ONLY want the BB/SS1000.  For those who HAPPEN to
get a BB while doing the rally, they will also get the certification. 
(additional reason to get back within the 36 hr time window!)

Louis

=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:31:10 2002
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From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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Oh yeah!  Setting off alarms in the underground garage I park in  use to be easy
when I had the old non-muflers on the Hawg.  With my semi-quiet pipes I have to
twist in a few Rs.  I dearly luv hearing all the yuppie alarms go off.

One A-hole use to use two spaces to prevent door dings on his precious piece of
jap crap Porsche wannebe-mobile. Leaving a nastygram on his car didn't convince
him to park properly.  While leaving said nastygrams we discovered it had one of
those "Step back, you're too close" voice thingers, and a pager alarm!  Our
lunchtime fun was honk up a big loogie on his windshield, kick bumper to set off
alarm, retire to a dark corner and giggle while he raced down to his true love
and turned the alarm off.  Then we'd wait five or ten and repeat the process.
Took the dumbass more'n  a week of notes, snot covered windshield, and false
alarms before he got the message - use ONE space.

Bill

Lantech (DCOP) wrote:

> Maybe some of you will get a kick out of this...
>
> My office parking garage is pretty small, and there's really only one
> designated M/C space.  Mine.  Unfortunately a lot of the rich old farts in
> the same building like to park right next to that spot, each one hanging a
> "little" over their space into mine.  Security guard won't do anything about
> it and sometimes it's a nightmare getting in and out of the spot because
> Four "little over's" means I am surrounded by the Wall Of Car.
>
> Anyway, I had to go to a different office for the end of the day and of
> course my poor bike is all trapped behind the Rich Old Fartmobiles;
> literally one on each side plus front and back.  I knew I was going to have
> tons of fun getting out, and I was annoyed because I have asked them to
> knock it off... anyway, I took my anger out on the throttle and the Gods of
> Acoustics were smiling on me, because I managed to detonate ALL FOUR of the
> car alarms! A new personal record!!!
>
> (then removed bike from said parking space with can opener and regretted
> missing seeing them all come down to turn off their alarms)
>
> cheers---
>
> Patti the Easily Amused Lantech


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:35:48 2002
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LAURA GRANATO wrote:

> On Wed, 03 April 2002, "William J. Huson" wrote
>
> >
> > Does one of our female listers have a rather
> interesting occupation?
> >
> > Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.
> Hmm... appears to be a
> > female rider from the curve of her
>
> me owns a yellow suzuki sportbike...

I know your bike, this was a bigun, maybe a Hiyabusa.


> >Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
> > breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the
> *hottie* range.
>
> Umm, not me..

My babe-temp meter says differnent :-)

> > females to demonstrate their dancing skills while
> attired in a G-string
> > and pasties.
>
> I've thought about it, but Roach didn't like the idea
> too much

Hey, it's good exercise!

> > So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not,
> Chuck, Mark, get
> > on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince
> her to attend Bike
> > Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!
>
> Bill: why don't you print up a dc cycles flyer and
> stick it on her bike???

HAH!  Just touching the seat she sat on might cause a cardiac incident
in my ol' ticker.

>
> LAG
>
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:42:05 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: Okay, fess up!
Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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Bill, Bill, Bill...

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  That plus the whole risk-reward thing.  Go for it, you old geezer! %^)

Original Message:<SNIP>

HAH!  Just touching the seat she sat on might cause a cardiac incident
in my ol' ticker.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:45:25 2002
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On Wed, 03 April 2002, "William J. Huson" wrote
> 
> I know your bike, this was a bigun, maybe a Hiyabusa.
> 

You never mentioned it was a bigun, now, did you? ;)

> 
> My babe-temp meter says differnent :-)

awww, what a good guy!!!!
> 
> 
> Hey, it's good exercise!

That's what I told Roach, but the rationale never
worked...
> 
> HAH!  Just touching the seat she sat on might cause a
cardiac incident
> in my ol' ticker.
> 
So how are you actually gonna meet this girl then,
Bill?  We don't want any ambulance incidents at bike
nights!

LAG


________________________________________________
PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
http://www.peoplepc.com 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:51:09 2002
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To: "'William J. Huson'" <bhuson@XXXXXX>,
   "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)"
	 <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: It's the little things in life...
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:50:01 -0500 
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 >>I dearly luv hearing all the yuppie alarms go off.

One of these weenies actually has an alarm that will e-mail him when it is
going off, just in case the key-chain batteries die at that very instance.
And the alarm goes off a lot; the acuostics in the garage are weird and you
can set off his alarm with a backfire or less. I have been known to make
fake emails from the alarm just to watch him run.  Mercedes SUV, does it get
worse than that???  

-patti 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 16:58:17 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 13:58:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Non moto: SUV song
To: dccyles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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My band has a song I wrote about SUVs on our website.

http://www.chaotika.com/

I was inspired to write this after riding behind a
very slow SUV on a nice twisty back road.  I know some
of you on the list feel the same about big SUVs as I
do, so you may get a laugh out of it.

Keith

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 17:01:45 2002
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Well well well, I want to thank everyone for their suggestions for DC
lunchtime rides, but this discussion has won me over.  I think my lunchtime
rides will heading down to Crystal City for some exploration of the South
Arlington area.  Interested parties are more than welcome to join me, Bill I
will keep you posted of my findings.

-Mike

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 17:17:54 2002
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Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 14:17:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>, cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I am up to the task.  How about a Bike Night at CCR? 
Camelot?  

--- "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Yes, I have a similer problem:
> 
> 1.  No guns.
> 2.  My wife doesn't need one
> 3.  She can kick my ass without even breaking 
> sweat.
> 
> Okay, Mark, over to you :-)
> 
> Bill
> 
> cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > Bill,
> >
> > A more than worthy suggestion, except:
> >
> > 1.  I am a gun owner
> > 2.  My wife knows where all the guns are
> > 3.  I taught my wife how to shoot them all
> >
> > Nope, gonna have to leave this "must do" project
> up to my pal Kitchell.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > Original Message:
> > -----------------
> > From: William J. Huson bhuson@XXXXXX
> > Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 14:27:54 -0500
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Okay, fess up!
> >
> > Does one of our female listers have a rather
> interesting occupation?
> >
> > Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM. 
> Hmm... appears to be a
> > female rider from the curve of her posterior and
> almost down-to-the-ass
> > hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but
> wait!  Minutes later
> > I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and
> I spy the bike again.
> > Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's
> backing and filling to
> > turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any
> female warm and
> > breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in
> the *hottie* range.  And
> > I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there
> yesterday!
> >
> > Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the
> CCR = Crystal City
> > Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals
> allows a number of
> > females to demonstrate their dancing skills while
> attired in a G-string
> > and pasties.
> >
> > So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if
> not, Chuck, Mark, get
> > on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince
> her to attend Bike
> > Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the
> roof!
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> > http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 19:16:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 19:16:20 -0500
From: James Reazor <JReazor@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Parking downtown if you work for the State department
In-reply-to: <20020403203620.88528.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>
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Yep, I take some perverse pleasure in listening to my office mates gripe
about the outrageous rates at the PMI lot across from SA-1.

-James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 3:36 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Parking downtown if you work for the State department
>
>
> I don't know if anyone here works for State (I just started as a
> contractor 3 or so weeks ago) but at SA-1 which is 1 block from main
> State, all you need to do is flash your state badge and you can park
> under what they call the 'high-rise' in the garage. About a dozen spots
> for MC's.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 20:04:32 2002
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 bhuson@XXXXXX writes:

> Yes, I have a similer problem:
> 
> 1.  No guns.
> 2.  My wife doesn't need one
> 3.  She can kick my ass without even breaking  sweat.
> 
   Pussy!  LOL  Tag...you're it!  :)

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> bhuson@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yes, I have a similer problem:<BR>
<BR>
1.&nbsp; No guns.<BR>
2.&nbsp; My wife doesn't need one<BR>
3.&nbsp; She can kick my ass without even breaking&nbsp; sweat.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; Pussy!&nbsp; LOL&nbsp; Tag...you're it!&nbsp; :)<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_de.24e417c0.29dd0092_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 20:08:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:19:52 -0500
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: It's the little things in life...
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At 04:50 PM 4/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >>I dearly luv hearing all the yuppie alarms go off.
>
>One of these weenies actually has an alarm that will e-mail him when it is
>going off, just in case the key-chain batteries die at that very instance.
>And the alarm goes off a lot; the acuostics in the garage are weird and you
>can set off his alarm with a backfire or less. I have been known to make
>fake emails from the alarm just to watch him run.  Mercedes SUV, does it get
>worse than that???  
>
>-patti 

I park in an underground garage at work.  My 'fun' cage has a very healthy
motor with a single 4" exhaust on it.  When started on the lower level of
the parking garage, any car with an alarm within ~100 ft of my car will be
beeping  :-)

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr  3 21:03:45 2002
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Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 21:01:55 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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To: SBave@XXXXXX
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
References: <de.24e417c0.29dd0092@aol.com>
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--------------A07B314B5E57E08DF79DD3E0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



SBave@XXXXXX wrote:

>  bhuson@XXXXXX writes:
>
>
>> Yes, I have a similer problem:
>>
>> 1.  No guns.
>> 2.  My wife doesn't need one
>> 3.  She can kick my ass without even breaking  sweat.
>
>
>    Pussy!  LOL  Tag...you're it!  :)
>
> Steve Broadstreet
> ZX-9

No, Mr. Broadstreet, the correct  term is Pussy Whipped.  :->

Bill

--------------A07B314B5E57E08DF79DD3E0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
&nbsp;
<P>SBave@XXXXXX wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;bhuson@XXXXXX
writes:</FONT></FONT>
<BR>&nbsp;
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>Yes,
I have a similer problem:</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>1.&nbsp; No guns.</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>2.&nbsp; My wife doesn't
need one</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>3.&nbsp; She can kick my
ass without even breaking&nbsp; sweat.</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>

<P><BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>&nbsp;&nbsp; Pussy!&nbsp;
LOL&nbsp; Tag...you're it!&nbsp; :)</FONT></FONT>
<P><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>Steve Broadstreet</FONT></FONT>
<BR><FONT FACE="arial,helvetica"><FONT SIZE=-1>ZX-9</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, Mr. Broadstreet, the correct&nbsp; term is Pussy Whipped.&nbsp; :->
<P>Bill</HTML>

--------------A07B314B5E57E08DF79DD3E0--


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 01:43:49 2002
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 dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 01:43:43 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 01:49:47 -0500
From: Shigeru Honda <shonda3@XXXXXX>
Subject: Wow - Chuck was on MSNBC!
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I was browsing through the channels and saw someone familiar...
Wow, Chuck's on MSNBC!

-- 
 __/__/__/__/__/__/__/
     Shigeru Honda
     shonda3@XXXXXX
      __/__/__/__/__/__/__/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:16:02 2002
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:17:19 -0500
To: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: It's the little things in life...
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At 08:19 PM 4/3/2002, Wayne Edelen wrote:

>I park in an underground garage at work.  My 'fun' cage has a very healthy
>motor with a single 4" exhaust on it.  When started on the lower level of
>the parking garage, any car with an alarm within ~100 ft of my car will be
>beeping  :-)


Yep, same with my Aprilia in Crystal City -- and I have to ride the length
of three buildings to get to the exit. I thoroughly enjoy it every time.  8;)

OTOH, the 919 doesn't do a thing. You'd think *some* of those cars
would have sewing machine detectors...

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:18:51 2002
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 dc-cycles@XXXXXX; Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:18:45 -0500 (EST)
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:16:40 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: vtr shield deal
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Anyone here interested?  Contact Howard below.

Horkster

> Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:51:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Howard Roth <cyclemed@XXXXXX>
> To: cog@XXXXXX
> Subject: Non COG - VTR1000 Shield
> Message-ID: <20020401015153.69164.qmail@XXXXXX>
> 
> Coggers:
> 
> Do any of you know anyone with a Honda VTR1000
> SuperHawk in RED.  I have a shield for that bike that
> was special ordered then never paid for.  Therefore, I
> would just assume cut a really good deal rather than
> pay to ship back to the UK.
> 
> It is a Pyramid Plasitcs red screen with flip and 4
> inches taller than stock. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> Howard Roth
> Harleysville, PA
> http://dandyindustries.hypermart.net
> COG # 3605         AMA # 469638           IBA # 8524
> 99 Concours        91 Sportster           77 CB400F
> "Shpatzir"         "The Creamsicle"       "Needs Work"

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:30:39 2002
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:21:56 -0500
To: Shigeru Honda <shonda3@XXXXXX>, DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Wow - Chuck was on MSNBC!
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At 01:49 AM 4/4/2002, Shigeru Honda wrote:
>I was browsing through the channels and saw someone familiar...
>Wow, Chuck's on MSNBC!

Ho-hum. Chuck on tv is like ChickenMan -- "He's everywhere, he's everywhere!"

Only his wife and dc-cycles know what he's *really* like.

Makes me wonder if Saint Joe Lieberman's out there tooling around on a new 
Silver Wing...

-- Larry






From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:40:55 2002
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From: "Todd Peer" <combat_tourer@XXXXXX>
To: horkster@XXXXXX, nighthawk700@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: MD20-20
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 08:29:16 -0500
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Good question.

I imagine the answer applies to both the 1000 and 1500.  If we could get 
some dirt riding in too that'd be great!

T

>From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
>To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
>CC: Todd Peer <combat_tourer@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: MD20-20
>Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 12:56:44 -0500
>
>"Louis F. Caplan" wrote:
> >
> > >   However, the ST1100 stays home this year.  The Three Amigos will be
> > > performing a power shoot-out of Suz-Hond-Kawa 650 bangers for 1000 
>miles
> > > instead.
> >
> > Todd, only 1000?  Ya got 36 hrs to play with, how about a BunBurner?  
>Put the
> > bike (and your buns) to the test!
>
>Is there any special requirement for this?  I mean if I
>just show up at the finish with 1500+ miles and get back
>in under 36 hours, will the BunBurner be an automatic
>thing?  I ask because the BBG last year involved one
>specific bonus stop in Georgia.
> >
> > And for the comment about Racer X, (made by you and Dale), Racer X is 
>already
> > registered.  (see http://www.masondixon20-20.org/riders02.htm)  Let's 
>call the
> > challenger, oh, I don't know, how about Racer B?
> >
> > Louis



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:47:04 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 05:47:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: vtr shield deal
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
In-Reply-To: <3CAC5238.FCBBAA3E@comcast.net>
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I'm not interested (sounds a little gaudy) but I'll
send this to the VTR mailing list. I'm sure he'll get
a taker.

Chris Weaver


--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Anyone here interested?  Contact Howard below.
> 
> Horkster
> 
> > Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:51:53 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Howard Roth <cyclemed@XXXXXX>
> > To: cog@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Non COG - VTR1000 Shield
> > Message-ID:
> <20020401015153.69164.qmail@XXXXXX>
> > 
> > Coggers:
> > 
> > Do any of you know anyone with a Honda VTR1000
> > SuperHawk in RED.  I have a shield for that bike
> that
> > was special ordered then never paid for. 
> Therefore, I
> > would just assume cut a really good deal rather
> than
> > pay to ship back to the UK.
> > 
> > It is a Pyramid Plasitcs red screen with flip and
> 4
> > inches taller than stock. 
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > Howard Roth
> > Harleysville, PA
> > http://dandyindustries.hypermart.net
> > COG # 3605         AMA # 469638           IBA #
> 8524
> > 99 Concours        91 Sportster           77
> CB400F
> > "Shpatzir"         "The Creamsicle"       "Needs
> Work"
> 
> -- 
> Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)
> 
> Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
> Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 
> 
> '98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
> '99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
> '82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 08:49:52 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Wow - Chuck was on MSNBC!


I was browsing through the channels and saw someone familiar...
Wow, Chuck's on MSNBC!

   <DJY>  I'll be he had his head up his ass again ! ;-) 

   Actually, when I heard him on Fox a few days back, Chuck did DCC 
proud - no muttering, stammering, stumbling, and a good answer for 
everything the talking head threw at him.  



Dave 





--
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 10:59:24 2002
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: dealers and credit scores
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:58:16 -0500 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	charset="iso-8859-1"

I have a friend who is gonna explode if he doesn't get a new bike (or so he
claims).  He's been to several local dealers (Clinton Cycles, Coleman, not
sure where else) and keeps getting denied financing because of his credit.
I advised him to either buy something in the price range of the cash he has
now ($3K), or keep the bike he has now and save up and buy later when he has
more cash, but that did not fly too well. (You know how those young'uns can
be)

I've never financed a bike, never financed a car, even when I buy new. I
hate credit and loans and the like so this world is completely foreign to
me.  Can anyone recommend a dealer that is a little more willing to work
with someone with damaged credit?  He doesn't mind taking a lengthy road
trip.  Any other suggestions will be passed along.

Thanks!!!

Patti the Lantech
'95 Virago 750


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 11:13:48 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:13:47 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dealers and credit scores
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <2344588A203AD311B795009027626986360333@CWDEXCH0>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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If he has a checking (and hopefully savings) account
then he should try his bank, they might be more
inclined to give him a loan since he is already a
customer.

And then he should buy my 2001 CBR600F4i.

--- "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I have a friend who is gonna explode if he doesn't
> get a new bike (or so he
> claims).  He's been to several local dealers
> (Clinton Cycles, Coleman, not
> sure where else) and keeps getting denied financing
> because of his credit.
> I advised him to either buy something in the price
> range of the cash he has
> now ($3K), or keep the bike he has now and save up
> and buy later when he has
> more cash, but that did not fly too well. (You know
> how those young'uns can
> be)
> 
> I've never financed a bike, never financed a car,
> even when I buy new. I
> hate credit and loans and the like so this world is
> completely foreign to
> me.  Can anyone recommend a dealer that is a little
> more willing to work
> with someone with damaged credit?  He doesn't mind
> taking a lengthy road
> trip.  Any other suggestions will be passed along.
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> Patti the Lantech
> '95 Virago 750
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 11:23:12 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:23:06 -0500
Message-Id: <200204041623.g34GN6q02402@atlanta.pop3now.com>
From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: re:  dealers and credit scores  

Patti the Lantech asks -

I have a friend who is gonna explode if he doesn't get a new bike (or 
so he claims).  He's been to several local dealers (Clinton Cycles, 
Coleman, not sure where else) and keeps getting denied financing 
because of his credit.


   <DJY>  Unfortunate.  I don't know of any lending institution that 
considers motorcycle loans as anything but a 'discretionary' loan - 
like a personal loan.  In fact, at a lot of banks, you can get better 
rates on a personal loan, than one for a motorcycle !  You didn't say 
what specifically about his credit 
- poor payment history
- too much revolving debt
- not enough credit history
- combination of the above, resulting poor credit scores

Since you're not asking about how to clear wrong info on a credit 
report, chances are they soon to be exploded one knows about it, and 
simply can't obtain financing on his own.  That being the case, his 
options are limited.
  Probably the two paths of least resistance are 
- a cosigner
- a collateral loan (he uses his $$$ as security)
- as an alternative, (s)he can get a loan against their 401k if they 
have one, and the interest is paid to themselves.  I don't think this 
kind of loan can be counted against a credit score.

I advised him to either buy something in the price range of the cash 
he has now ($3K), or keep the bike he has now and save up and buy 
later when he has more cash, but that did not fly too well. (You know 
how those young'uns can be)


   <DJY> Your advice was more sound than ALL of the suggestions I 
made above.  Try again, using this example.
In '93, having been riding for about a year, I inherited some 
money...  and, had been lusting after the ZX11.  I had enough for 
most of a bike, but nowhere NEAR enough for insurance, the cheapest 
quote of which was $2800.00 / year...  Geico wanted $4000.00 / 
year...  THAT killed it for me.  But then I decided, after seeking 
help here on DCC :-) A 90-93 C model was every bit as powerful, and 
cost 35% as much to insure.  I ended up with the bike I have now, a 
VERY nice '90 ZX11, took all that money I would've spent in insurance 
& payments & bought gear, so I could at least look like a non poseur, 
etc...  As recent as a year ago, someone asked me if my ZX11 was 
new...      

I've never financed a bike, never financed a car, even when I buy 
new. I hate credit and loans and the like so this world is completely 
foreign to me.  Can anyone recommend a dealer that is a little more 
willing to work with someone with damaged credit?  He doesn't mind 
taking a lengthy road trip.  Any other suggestions will be passed 
along.


  <DJY> If his/her bank won't loan the money, and the 401k option 
won't work, then they need a used bike, period.  That's a better 
option anyway.  $3k will get a decent used bike, no problem.  $4k a 
really nice one.  Impress the financial wisdom of this decision upon 
them...

HTH
Dave



--
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 11:24:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 08:24:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Keith Lamond <keithlva@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dealers and credit scores
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Does your friend have access to a credit union? 
Better rates than the dealer will give and probably
more lenient.

> 
> --- "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > I have a friend who is gonna explode if he doesn't
> > get a new bike (or so he
> > claims).  He's been to several local dealers
> > (Clinton Cycles, Coleman, not
> > sure where else) and keeps getting denied
> financing
> > because of his credit.
> > I advised him to either buy something in the price
> > range of the cash he has
> > now ($3K), or keep the bike he has now and save up
> > and buy later when he has
> > more cash, but that did not fly too well. (You
> know
> > how those young'uns can
> > be)
> > 
> > I've never financed a bike, never financed a car,
> > even when I buy new. I
> > hate credit and loans and the like so this world
> is
> > completely foreign to
> > me.  Can anyone recommend a dealer that is a
> little
> > more willing to work
> > with someone with damaged credit?  He doesn't mind
> > taking a lengthy road
> > trip.  Any other suggestions will be passed along.
> > 
> > Thanks!!!
> > 
> > Patti the Lantech
> > '95 Virago 750
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 11:58:32 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Thanks for the info on Criswell...
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 11:47:14 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Thanks George, Wayne, and Howard for your comments on Criswell.

I've spent some there this week and now I need to decide if that is what's 
best for me right now.

Just wanted to say I appreciate your replies.

Rob
'98 VFR800

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 13:06:04 2002
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Just what BDC's need: a TV on their cellphones!

http://electronicproducts.com/ShowPage.asp?SECTION=3700&PRIMID=&FileName
=APROL5.apr2002





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Mike,

The scenery is more ... uh, revealing ... at the places I suggested in DC -- Archibald's, Joanna's, and Camelot -- than at the venerable Crystal City Restaurant.

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 17:01:25 -0500
To: DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!


Well well well, I want to thank everyone for their suggestions for DC
lunchtime rides, but this discussion has won me over.  I think my lunchtime
rides will heading down to Crystal City for some exploration of the South
Arlington area.  Interested parties are more than welcome to join me, Bill I
will keep you posted of my findings.

-Mike

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 14:03:43 2002
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From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!
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"cvkgpena@XXXXXX" wrote

> 
> Mike,
> 
> The scenery is more ... uh, revealing ... at the
places I suggested in DC -- Archibald's, Joanna's, and
Camelot -- than at the venerable Crystal City
Restaurant.
> 
I had a lot of fun at Archibald's...per Chuck's
recommendation...so I second that!

LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 14:21:47 2002
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From: "Jeannette Zell" <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
To: lgranato@XXXXXX, cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Cc: michael.brocchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!
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Good Guys is even better. ;-)

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081


>From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> >
>I had a lot of fun at Archibald's...per Chuck's
>recommendation...so I second that!
>
>LAG
>
>
>________________________________________________
>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
>http://www.peoplepc.com


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Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I would have to respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But certainly Good Guys should be included on any scenic DC ride list.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Jeannette Zell gingerdc9@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 14:10:11 -0500
To: lgranato@XXXXXX, cvkgpena@XXXXXX, michael.brocchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!


Good Guys is even better. ;-)

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081


>From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> >
>I had a lot of fun at Archibald's...per Chuck's
>recommendation...so I second that!
>
>LAG
>
>
>________________________________________________
>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
>http://www.peoplepc.com


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 14:34:24 2002
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In a message dated 4/4/02 2:32:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I would have to 
respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But certainly Good Guys 
should be included on any scenic DC ride list.

So why don't you organize one of the bike nights at these places?  Heck...I'd 
probably force myself to make it.  :-))

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 14:44:03 2002
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> In a message dated 4/4/02 2:32:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:
>
> Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I would have to
> respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But certainly Good Guys
> should be included on any scenic DC ride list.

Never really liked Good Guys. Camelot was always my first choice.


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 14:44:18 2002
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>>The scenery is more ... uh, revealing ... at the places I suggested in DC
-- Archibald's, Joanna's, and Camelot 

One afternoon I stopped by Joanna's to pick one of the DJ's up for a trip to
the Orioles game.  I should have asked him to meet me outside because,
unbeknownst to me, a friend who was working there (putting herself through
law school, no less) was on shift that day.  As fate would have it, it was
her turn to dance just when I walked in, and I learned a *little* more about
her than I EVER wanted to know!  Talk about Too Much Information...

-patti

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Scott ... er, Steve ... no, Scott ... I mean, Steve ...

Perhaps you did not see my previous email about guns and my wife.  I could probably get away with organizing a bachelor party or some other traditional all-guy event to go to such places (not that I have any personal desire to look at naked women, mind you!), but I serioudly doubt I could pass muster organizing a Bike Night there.  OTOH, if someone else (you perhaps?) took it upon themselves to do the organizing...

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:33:52 EST
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!


In a message dated 4/4/02 2:32:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I would have to 
respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But certainly Good Guys 
should be included on any scenic DC ride list.

So why don't you organize one of the bike nights at these places?  Heck...I'd 
probably force myself to make it.  :-))

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 15:00:06 2002
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Cc: 
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!  

Chuck, still on time out from the last time he went to Bike Night 
when there were WOMEN present, mournfully moaned -
 

Scott ... er, Steve ... no, Scott ... I mean, Steve ...

Perhaps you did not see my previous email about guns and my wife.  I
could probably get away with organizing a bachelor party or some other
traditional all-guy event to go to such places (not that I have any
personal desire to look at naked women, mind you!), but I serioudly
doubt I could pass muster organizing a Bike Night there.


   <DJY>  Good thing you work where they don't mind guys wearin' 
skirts, Chuck, 'cause your wife clearly wears the pants... <g>  !  

here's how you do it-
'honey, we're having bike night at the XXX club tonight, of course 
you're welcome to come with me'.
'yes, of course, honey, there will be other women there from DCC'
'what's that?  you're not going?  ok, but we're going to talk about 
you anyway.  See you when I get back'

Oh, and Chuck, TOWMBO said to tell you that the make up foundation 
you use is not a good match for your skin tone...  you don't want to 
have a shiny face for the cameras now <g> 


Dave   


--
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 15:08:02 2002
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From: "Jeannette Zell" <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
To: eternity23@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 14:56:26 -0500
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Never been there. Isn't that place all fake boobs and fake blondes?
That's what I've heard anyway.

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081


>From: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
>Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:43:47 -0500
>Never really liked Good Guys. Camelot was always my first choice.
>
>
>Sean Jordan
>Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 15:25:00 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:24:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Wow - Chuck was on MSNBC!
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <200204041349.g34DnkH04612@atlanta.pop3now.com>
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>    Actually, when I heard him on Fox a few days back, Chuck did DCC 
> proud - no muttering, stammering, stumbling, and a good answer for 
> everything the talking head threw at him.  

Fortunately he can't say %^) verbally.    ;-)  <-- Kidding Chuck!!

Louis

=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 15:44:22 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 12:44:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <480CA25A-4804-11D6-9962-003065B452D2@mac.com>
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--- Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > In a message dated 4/4/02 2:32:09 PM Eastern Standard
> Time,
> > cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:
> >
> > Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I
> would have to
> > respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But
> certainly Good Guys
> > should be included on any scenic DC ride list.
> 
> Never really liked Good Guys. Camelot was always my first
> choice.

says sean "classy" jordan....



--
tg

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 15:54:11 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: Okay, fess up!
Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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And your point is???

Original Message:
-----------------

Never been there. Isn't that place all fake boobs and fake blondes?
That's what I've heard anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 16:00:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:00:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
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On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 03:44 , Tom Gimer wrote:
> says sean "classy" jordan....

Not making any pretense of being classy or not; merely stating my 
preference for Camelot.

Nexus Gold Club (a block or two off of Capitol Hill) is the place for 
bling-blingers. That's where I ended up having a few unexpected drinks 
with Dr. Dre one very bizarre evening. Big place, usually not a lot of 
people. Not as much fun; has that "empty" feel to it, and the dancers 
are always hitting everyone up for table dances.

Good Guys has the whole "x drinks per y hours thing", and they hustle 
everyone in and out. Not my bag.

Camelot is (relatively) quiet, dark, and the dancers are generally 
friendly. Much better atmosphere for having a few drinks, relaxing with 
friends, and getting rid of all those pesky $1 bills that have been 
piling up in your wallet.


Sean Jordan
Jordan Racing / DC-Cycles Racing


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 16:22:34 2002
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From: "Jeannette Zell" <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Re: Okay, fess up!
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 16:22:27 -0500
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Fake = not good
Real = good

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081


>From: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
>Reply-To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
>To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: Re: Okay, fess up!
>Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 15:54:09 -0500
>
>And your point is???
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>
>Never been there. Isn't that place all fake boobs and fake blondes?
>That's what I've heard anyway.
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>mail2web - Check your email from the web at
>http://mail2web.com/ .
>


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 17:53:10 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:53:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
To: Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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--- Sean Jordan <eternity23@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, April 4, 2002, at 03:44 , Tom Gimer wrote:
> > says sean "classy" jordan....
> 
> Not making any pretense of being classy or not; merely
> stating my 
> preference for Camelot.

i was under the impression that, historically, camelot was
considered a "classy" strip joint....and good guys a
"dirty" one




--
tg (fan of the dirty)

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 18:23:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 18:24:20 -0500
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: Okay, fess up!
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Well, there is that nudie bar poker run coming up in a week or two. A few 
of us from Crystal City rode it last year (of course we were the only 
non-Harleys), beginning in Springfield, and it was a pretty good tour, 
including the Crystal City Restaurant. Chris L is the resident expert who 
can provide details. Chris?

-- Larry


At 02:46 PM 4/4/2002, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
>Scott ... er, Steve ... no, Scott ... I mean, Steve ...
>
>Perhaps you did not see my previous email about guns and my wife.  I could 
>probably get away with organizing a bachelor party or some other 
>traditional all-guy event to go to such places (not that I have any 
>personal desire to look at naked women, mind you!), but I serioudly doubt 
>I could pass muster organizing a Bike Night there.  OTOH, if someone else 
>(you perhaps?) took it upon themselves to do the organizing...
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From:  SKeener2@XXXXXX
>Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 14:33:52 EST
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
>
>
>In a message dated 4/4/02 2:32:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:
>
>Not that I don't appreciate naked young women, but I would have to
>respectfully disagree with Jeannette's opinion.  But certainly Good Guys
>should be included on any scenic DC ride list.
>
>So why don't you organize one of the bike nights at these places?  Heck...I'd
>probably force myself to make it.  :-))
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://mail2web.com/ .






From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 19:27:50 2002
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Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 16:27:48 -0800 (PST)
From: stephen cutchins <stephen_cutchins@XXXXXX>
Subject: Pics of 2001 CBR600F4i
To: CBR List <cbr@XXXXXX>, DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

A couple people asked for pictures of the 2001
CBR600F4i I am selling, so here they are.  Go to:

http://www.geocities.com/stephen_cutchins/

The files start with "CBR", there are ones of each
side, the dash, a closeup of the stainless front
lines, and one of the tank protector.

The only picture I don't like is of the tank
protector, the flash made it look a lot brighter than
it really is.  It is carbon, so it looks black.  BTW I
got it from Lockhart Phillips, it looks VERY good on
the CBR, those of you with one might check it out.

You can check out the other pictures also, I have a
bunch of me with people at Road Atlanta a few years
ago, a couple of my dearly departed Aprilia RSV Mille
- one is a very good action shot from a race at Summit
Point Raceway.

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 19:53:08 2002
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From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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To: Jeannette Zell <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
CC: lgranato@XXXXXX, cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   michael.brocchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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NOOOO!  I've been banned for life from Good Guys!  Those bouncers have
ZERO sense of humor...

Bill

Jeannette Zell wrote:

> Good Guys is even better. ;-)
>
> - Jeannette
>   '86 VFR 700F2
>   http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081
>
> >From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> > >
> >I had a lot of fun at Archibald's...per Chuck's
> >recommendation...so I second that!
> >
> >LAG
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________
> >PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> >http://www.peoplepc.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 19:53:53 2002
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 alauro@XXXXXX writes:

> Or anyone interested
> in a very leisurely paced ride (still getting used to the new bike) around
> VA on either Saturday or Sunday?

  I vote for Saturday...

Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9R

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> alauro@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Or anyone interested<BR>
in a very leisurely paced ride (still getting used to the new bike) around<BR>
VA on either Saturday or Sunday?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
&nbsp; I vote for Saturday...<BR>
<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9R</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 20:00:02 2002
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Cc: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 19:59:37 -0500
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Bill laments -

NOOOO!  I've been banned for life from Good Guys!  Those bouncers have
ZERO sense of humor...

Bill

	<DJY> Details... ???  Please ???  ;-) 

Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 20:12:07 2002
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From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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And your point is??? %^)

Jeannette Zell wrote:

> Fake = not good
> Real = good




From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 20:32:14 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:31:27 -0500
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Chuck reiterates -

And your point is??? %^)


	<DJY> The fake ones don't have the same 'Charmin squeeze' ala Mr.
Whipple, feel to them, Chuck.  Any TRUE connoisseur of fine adult
entertainment would know that...


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/



Jeannette Zell wrote:

> Fake = not good
> Real = good




From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 20:40:19 2002
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At 08:31 PM 4/4/2002, Dave Yates wrote:

>         <DJY> The fake ones don't have the same 'Charmin squeeze' ala Mr.
>Whipple, feel to them, Chuck.

The damn things can put your eye out! Wasn't there a court case that 
demonstrated just that a few years ago?

-- Larry








From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 22:17:00 2002
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Dave Yates wrote:

> Bill laments -
>
> NOOOO!  I've been banned for life from Good Guys!  Those bouncers have
> ZERO sense of humor...
>
> Bill
>
>         <DJY> Details... ???  Please ???  ;-)

While stumbling out of the Good Guys I paused to give the dancer a tip
which I suffed in her garter belt.  She thanked me by turning around and
wiggling her cute ass right in my face!  Now I ask you, what's a seriously
imebriated good ol' `Murican male gonna do with an invite like that?  So
I... er ... um... *blush*

The roid enhanced neaderthal bouncer grabbed me outside the door and
screamed "You're banned for life" and accused me of biting her on the
ass!  Nonono, roid-boy, I KISSED her on the ass - no biting.

That's my story an' I'm sticking to it.

BTW - she was a natural strawberry blonde.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 22:20:15 2002
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Larry Larson wrote:

> At 08:31 PM 4/4/2002, Dave Yates wrote:
>
> >         <DJY> The fake ones don't have the same 'Charmin squeeze' ala Mr.
> >Whipple, feel to them, Chuck.
>
> The damn things can put your eye out! Wasn't there a court case that
> demonstrated just that a few years ago?
>
> -- Larry

Dang!  I thought it was squeezing the *other* thang that made you go blind.

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr  4 22:20:54 2002
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On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Larry Larson wrote:

> The damn things can put your eye out! Wasn't there a court case that 
> demonstrated just that a few years ago?
> 
 Or smother you to death.
http://entertainment.yahoo.com/entnews/wwn/20020116/101119320009.html

Hugh


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 05:05:09 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
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Subject: Re: dirt bike helmet vs street helmet
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 05:14:02 -0500
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I was thinking.. if you angle the visor right, it may push down
instead of catching wind.. or it may keep your head straight. I don't
know.. dual sporters run it though.

Let me know your results.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 08:49:43 2002
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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:49:22 -0500
From: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Thanks everyone for the advice on tightening the chain, it is the perfect
tension now, BUT... (of course you should expect the but)
I think my chain has been stretching... I'm now getting some grinding from
the engine side of the chain, almost as if it's not in the right grooves.
Can anyone prescribe a remedy for this issue?  And if the eventual solution
is a new chain, what chain? and where to buy and have it installed?
Bike Info:
	2000 Bandit 600cc
	10,000 miles

TIA,
Mike

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 08:56:31 2002
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Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the advice on tightening the chain, it is the perfect
> tension now, BUT... (of course you should expect the but)
> I think my chain has been stretching... I'm now getting some grinding from
> the engine side of the chain, almost as if it's not in the right grooves.
> Can anyone prescribe a remedy for this issue?  And if the eventual solution
> is a new chain, what chain? and where to buy and have it installed?
> Bike Info:
>         2000 Bandit 600cc
>         10,000 miles
>
> TIA,
> Mike

Hmm... Might be time to check the condition of the sprockets.  Excessive
sprocket wear causes premature chain destruction, and sloppy chain adjustment
can cause the sprockets to go south.  This can occur in a few thousand miles.

Bill
Luv my belt drive...


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 08:58:46 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:58:05 -0500
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She works there.  A co-worker of mine (not a lister) who has a cbr900rr eats
lunch at CCR regularly and strikes out with her regularly.

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:28 PM
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: Okay, fess up!
>
>
> Does one of our female listers have a rather interesting occupation?
>
> Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.  Hmm... appears to be a
> female rider from the curve of her posterior and almost down-to-the-ass
> hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but wait!  Minutes later
> I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and I spy the bike again.
> Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's backing and filling to
> turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
> breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the *hottie* range.  And
> I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there yesterday!
>
> Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the CCR = Crystal City
> Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals allows a number of
> females to demonstrate their dancing skills while attired in a G-string
> and pasties.
>
> So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
> on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
> Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!
>
> Bill
>


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:18:09 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
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Subject: mechanic in the area
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:06:08 +0100
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Hello,
my honda vfr 98 is giving me electrical problems.  IS there anyone who could 
suggest a good honda mechanic?
thank you,
pierfrancesco consalvo


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:24:39 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
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On Friday 05 April 2002 08:49, Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the advice on tightening the chain, it is the perfect
> tension now, BUT... (of course you should expect the but)
> I think my chain has been stretching... I'm now getting some grinding from
> the engine side of the chain, almost as if it's not in the right grooves.
> Can anyone prescribe a remedy for this issue?  And if the eventual solution
> is a new chain, what chain? and where to buy and have it installed?
> Bike Info:
> 	2000 Bandit 600cc
> 	10,000 miles

Mike,

I'm assuming by your questions that in 10k miles this is the first attention 
you've paid to the chain - if that is the case, it's probably done and needs 
to be replaced. A EK O-Ring chain will set you back $100, and someone on the 
list can probably help you out with putting it on (all you need is a chain 
tool to break the old one, then size and press together the new one). You 
also need to take a good look at your sprockets. A mis-adjusted or kinked 
chain can chew them up pretty easily. If the teeth are badly worn on either 
side, or are oddly shaped (very thin and pointy, rounded on top, etc) you'll 
want to replace them as well. With the new chain, give it a good clean with 
WD-40 and a brush every once and a while (O-Ring chains are internally 
lubricated and only need to be cleaned and protected from corrosion).

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:26:37 2002
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I like Manassas Honda - but not for electrical problems.  After two trips I 
had to explain the problem to _them_ and make them fix it.

What sort of electrical problems are you having?  (one track mind, but they 
all seem to be RR/Stator/Battery related)

At 09:06 AM 4/5/2002, you wrote:
>my honda vfr 98 is giving me electrical problems.  IS there anyone who 
>could suggest a good honda mechanic?


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:37:07 2002
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	Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:36:46 +0000
From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: re:  dealers and credit scores
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 14:36:46 +0000
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I am not sure about banks, since I get my loans through 
my credit union, but my credit union allows loans for 
NEW motorcycles (must be first owner from a dealer) at 
the same rate as a NEW car.  The only stipulation is 
that they will only finance 80% of the value. They feel 
that requiring 20% ownership of the motorcycle will 
inspire the owner to be more careful with their 
investment.

I had a similar problem with purchasing my present bike, 
not from poor credit but from a high debt to income 
ratio, so I was unable to get financing directly from 
the dealer.  Of course, the "financing" available from 
most motorcycle dealers is crappy anyways, and I was 
going to transfer the loan later on anyways, so I don't 
know whay I even tried to get financing from the 
dealer...

My credit union approved the loan right away though.

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star Classic

   <DJY>  Unfortunate.  I don't know of any lending 
institution that
considers motorcycle loans as anything but 
a 'discretionary' loan -
like a personal loan.  In fact, at a lot of banks, you 
can get better
rates on a personal loan, than one for a motorcycle !  
You didn't say
what specifically about his credit
- poor payment history
- too much revolving debt
- not enough credit history
- combination of the above, resulting poor credit scores

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:50:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 09:48:18 -0500
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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I thought so.  Didn't see the yellow scoot yesterday and I don't expect to see
it today.  It is a bit *nipplely* out.  She'd probably have to use a hair dryer
to warm them ~down~ so she could glue the pasties on.

Which prompts a physiological question ???

While riding one's scoot [moto-content], why does a chill breeze cause a
female's headlights to go on high-beam, so to speak, whereas the same chill wind
causes certain male body parts to run for cover?  ponder ponder ponder....

Bill

Jon Strang wrote:

> She works there.  A co-worker of mine (not a lister) who has a cbr900rr eats
> lunch at CCR regularly and strikes out with her regularly.
>
> --jon
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:28 PM
> > To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> > Subject: Okay, fess up!
> >
> >
> > Does one of our female listers have a rather interesting occupation?
> >
> > Spied a bright yellow Suzuki sportbike this AM.  Hmm... appears to be a
> > female rider from the curve of her posterior and almost down-to-the-ass
> > hair braid.  I catch a light and she's gone, but wait!  Minutes later
> > I'm chugging down 23rd street in Crystal City and I spy the bike again.
> > Apparently she overshot a parking space and she's backing and filling to
> > turn the bike around.  Now I'm not very picky, any female warm and
> > breathing is okay with me, but this one  was in the *hottie* range.  And
> > I recall seeing that yellow bike parked there yesterday!
> >
> > Where is "there"?  In very close proximity to the CCR = Crystal City
> > Restaurant, which in addition to serving up meals allows a number of
> > females to demonstrate their dancing skills while attired in a G-string
> > and pasties.
> >
> > So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
> > on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
> > Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!
> >
> > Bill
> >
>
> #################################################################
> #################################################################
> #################################################################
> #####
> #####
> #####
> #################################################################
> #################################################################
> #################################################################


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 09:53:17 2002
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 09:53:43 -0500 (EST)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: mechanic in the area
In-Reply-To: <F208RF58tP9DLf4bg5X000009b5@hotmail.com>
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I've had good luck with the folks at Crossroad's cycle. 



On Fri, 5 Apr 2002, Pierre C wrote:

> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:06:08 +0100
> From: Pierre C <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: mechanic in the area
> 
> Hello,
> my honda vfr 98 is giving me electrical problems.  IS there anyone who could 
> suggest a good honda mechanic?
> thank you,
> pierfrancesco consalvo
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
> 
> 

--
Dan Brown 
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:07:14 2002
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Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!
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And I will again reiterate ... Your point is???  i.e., You would turn down a chance to squeeze either???

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Dave Yates sdave@XXXXXX
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:31:27 -0500
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!


Chuck reiterates -

And your point is??? %^)


	<DJY> The fake ones don't have the same 'Charmin squeeze' ala Mr.
Whipple, feel to them, Chuck.  Any TRUE connoisseur of fine adult
entertainment would know that...


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/



Jeannette Zell wrote:

> Fake = not good
> Real = good



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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:12:31 2002
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:12:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, "sdave@XXXXXX" <sdave@XXXXXX>,
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Anyone who squeezes anything at a DC strip club will
find themselves on the street with a broken nose, so
beware.

I feel like I am on a list with teenage boys with all
this talk about strip clubs (-:

--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> And I will again reiterate ... Your point is??? 
> i.e., You would turn down a chance to squeeze
> either???
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Dave Yates sdave@XXXXXX
> Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 20:31:27 -0500
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!
> 
> 
> Chuck reiterates -
> 
> And your point is??? %^)
> 
> 
> 	<DJY> The fake ones don't have the same 'Charmin
> squeeze' ala Mr.
> Whipple, feel to them, Chuck.  Any TRUE connoisseur
> of fine adult
> entertainment would know that...
> 
> 
> Dave Yates
> '90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
> LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
> http://www.radix.net/~sdave/
> 
> 
> 
> Jeannette Zell wrote:
> 
> > Fake = not good
> > Real = good
> 
> 
> 
>
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=====


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:19:17 2002
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I can testify that this is not necessarily 100% true.  At my bachelor party (at Joanna's many, many years ago), some squeezing definitely occurred (you'll have to ask one of the attendees for the exact details as I was ... uh, inebriated -- that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)  Let's just say that our tab was in the four figures and that we were tipping the entertainment very well.  And the owner essentially said that the help would have to tolerate our behavior to a certain degree.  Contrary to getting thrown out and our noses bloodied, we were invited back anytime.  But that was then and this is now, so YMMV.

Also, I have the distinct honor of probably being one of the few people to ever talk the ownership of such an establishment to bestow a round of drinks on the house.

P.S.  Per Bill's posts, I doubt very seriously that you could ever get away with any of the above at Good Guys.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Mark Kitchell markkitchell@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 07:12:28 -0800 (PST)
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: RE: Okay, fess up!


Anyone who squeezes anything at a DC strip club will
find themselves on the street with a broken nose, so
beware.

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:22:52 2002
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I'd suspect so, Bill.  I know so, even with my manly nips.  Back in my dirt
bike days, I'd sweat/get hot/get wet and muddy in the really slow sections,
then freeze a bit on a fast fireroad.

I'd end up with sanded off nipple tips (bloody spots on the inside of my
jersey).

ouchy.

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: William J. Huson
> Which prompts a physiological question ???
>
> While riding one's scoot [moto-content], why does a chill breeze cause a
> female's headlights to go on high-beam, so to speak, whereas the
> same chill wind
> causes certain male body parts to run for cover?  ponder ponder ponder....
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:27:25 2002
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In a message dated 4/5/02 10:24:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:


> I'd end up with sanded off nipple tips (bloody spots on the inside of my
> jersey).
> 

Entirely too much information.  I think I'm gonna go toss cookies now.

--part1_63.96bc1a0.29df1c46_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 4/5/02 10:24:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I'd end up with sanded off nipple tips (bloody spots on the inside of my<BR>
jersey).<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Entirely too much information.&nbsp; I think I'm gonna go toss cookies now.</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 10:38:30 2002
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I was just going to say the same thing.  TMI!  And one word: Vaseline.

Original Message:
-----------------
From:  SKeener2@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 10:27:02 EST
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!


In a message dated 4/5/02 10:24:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:


> I'd end up with sanded off nipple tips (bloody spots on the inside of my
> jersey).
> 

Entirely too much information.  I think I'm gonna go toss cookies now.

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:02:00 2002
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 08:01:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Chain tightening
To: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <FF402BE53275D411BF2700508BF9067703E685D3@ms01.do.treas.gov>
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fastlane cycles in chantilly seems to always have a good
selection of chains and sprockets.

give some thought to asking them also for a little advice
on maintenance and adjustment....



--- Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the advice on tightening the chain,
> it is the perfect
> tension now, BUT... (of course you should expect the but)
> I think my chain has been stretching... I'm now getting
> some grinding from
> the engine side of the chain, almost as if it's not in
> the right grooves.
> Can anyone prescribe a remedy for this issue?  And if the
> eventual solution
> is a new chain, what chain? and where to buy and have it
> installed?
> Bike Info:
> 	2000 Bandit 600cc
> 	10,000 miles
> 
> TIA,
> Mike


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:26:05 2002
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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 11:25:13 -0500
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
To: roach@XXXXXX
Cc: Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Brian Roach wrote:
> 
> Mike,
> 
> I'm assuming by your questions that in 10k miles this is the first attention
> you've paid to the chain - if that is the case, it's probably done and needs
> to be replaced. A EK O-Ring chain will set you back $100, and someone on the
> list can probably help you out with putting it on (all you need is a chain
> tool to break the old one, then size and press together the new one). You
> also need to take a good look at your sprockets. A mis-adjusted or kinked
> chain can chew them up pretty easily. If the teeth are badly worn on either
> side, or are oddly shaped (very thin and pointy, rounded on top, etc) you'll
> want to replace them as well. With the new chain, give it a good clean with
> WD-40 and a brush every once and a while (O-Ring chains are internally
> lubricated and only need to be cleaned and protected from corrosion).
> 
> - Roach

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm suddenly feeling the
overwhelming urge to go out to the bike and kiss my shaft drive.  :)

Horkster

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:42:31 2002
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:42:18 EST
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In a message dated 4/5/2002 10:24:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
jmstrang@XXXXXX writes:

> I'd sweat/get hot/get wet and muddy in the really slow sections,
>  then freeze a bit on a fast fireroad.
>  
>  I'd end up with sanded off nipple tips (bloody spots on the inside of my
>  jersey).
>  

Ow, Ow, Ow..... I had forgotten about that, "thanks" for the memory.
 There are things I would rather not remember.

  Now dating a girl who worked in a strip club, that memory I like.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:45:35 2002
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In a message dated 4/5/2002 10:41:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

> one word: Vaseline.

Vaseline + sand = waterproof grinding compound.
 Use pasties.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:52:24 2002
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:52:10 EST
Subject: Re: Chain tightening
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In a message dated 4/5/2002 8:50:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
Michael.Brocchi@XXXXXX writes:

> I'm now getting some grinding from
>  the engine side of the chain, 

Hoist the rear wheel off the ground, spin the wheel slowly while checking 
chain tension every few inches. It sounds to me like you have a tight spot 
and that could put one hell of a load on your bearings and chain.

You need to take it to someone (on this list?) who _knows_ chains and have 
them go over it with you, this can get really expensive if you do it wrong.


John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 11:52:50 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Chain tightening  

Hork came out -

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm suddenly feeling the
overwhelming urge to go out to the bike and kiss my shaft drive.  :)

  <DJY>  Please...  This is a family list !  

  Besides...  If you could kiss your own shaft drive, there wouldn't 
be much room in your life for a good woman !!! ;-) 

Dave



--
Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 16:08:27 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Weekend rides??
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 16:08:51 -0500
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I hate to interrupt the pasties and G-string discussion for a motorcycle
topic, but there was talk of riding this weekend. Is it still on?  I'm not
sure if I can participate, but if there's a consensus on day/place/time I'll
see what I can do.  I hope to make it to Uncle Jed's on Sunday, at least.

Thanks,

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F



From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 16:13:06 2002
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I'll be meeting another lister at the Mobil station on Liberia Rd at Signal 
Hill Rd in Manassas at 10am Sunday.  This is for the VA Byway / 211 
leisurely run.  Join us.

Don't forget to reset your clocks Saturday.

At 04:08 PM 4/5/2002, Paul Wilson wrote:
>I hate to interrupt the pasties and G-string discussion for a motorcycle
>topic, but there was talk of riding this weekend. Is it still on?  I'm not
>sure if I can participate, but if there's a consensus on day/place/time I'll
>see what I can do.  I hope to make it to Uncle Jed's on Sunday, at least.


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 18:05:06 2002
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From: "Danny Thompson" <dthompso1@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Saturday ride or Sunday after church
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 18:05:11 -0500
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Anyone decide to ride Saturday? If so, I would be interested in joining in
the fun. Or Sunday afternoon, maybe 1:00 or so. Let me know.
Danny
'98 VTR (For Sale)
'01 Shadow Tourer (For Sale)
'99 SV  (race bike)
'02 XR250R.
www.onewayracing.org

Sponsored by:
Shen Valley Trailers: www.shenvalleywarrenton.com, toll free @ 888-743-6825
Blalock Cycle: www.blalockcycle.com, 540-347-4591


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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr  5 19:30:02 2002
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Reply-To: "Kevin Bechtel" <boatdr@XXXXXX>
From: "Kevin Bechtel" <boatdr@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: babe on yellow Suzuki
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 19:40:25 -0500
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So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?   And if not, Chuck, Mark, get
> on it!   Just think, recruit this one and convince her to attend Bike
> Nights and the attendance would rocket thru the roof!


There is a Babe that works out at the same gym as I do that rides a =
yellow and black 600GSXR, and happens to have a long blonde braid. I can =
ask !    Oh..... her man rides a Hyabusa.

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<DIV>So is babe on the yellow bike a lister?&nbsp;&nbsp; And if not, =
Chuck,=20
Mark, get<BR>&gt; on it!&nbsp;&nbsp; Just think, recruit this one and =
convince=20
her to attend Bike<BR>&gt; Nights and the attendance would rocket thru =
the=20
roof!</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>There is a Babe that works out at the =
same gym as I=20
do that rides a yellow and black 600GSXR, and happens to have a long =
blonde=20
braid. I can ask !&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Oh..... her man rides a=20
Hyabusa.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:32:10 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Clifford Zigmond" <cliffzig@XXXXXX>
Cc: <RichH@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Lucky/City Riding
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:41:24 -0500
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|>as it was before.  And someone flashed their red/blues at me today too.  I
|>didn't give it a second thought and kept filtering.  If they want me let
|>them come get me.  Good luck to them in that traffic.  All I can say is, I
|>do it because I CAN.

Reminds me of the time I was filtering through stopped traffic for the
laurel B/W parkway exit.. I passed an unmarked cruiser, and he hit
whatever to make the "err err" noise.  Well I knew traffic was too
backed up for him to come get me, so I  just "beep beep" ed right
back at him and filtered to the front as I chuckled en route.

I do it because I can, and it's helpful to everyone. (i.e. more
efficient).



Danny
00 zx6r

From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:34:05 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Air Hose Revenge / Battley's compliment
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:43:25 -0500
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Hmm I'll have to get one of those and tape it inside my trunk
somewhere. 

Gosh it sucks to get the long nozzle air hoses.



Danny

From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:34:51 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
Cc: <Mwalker3@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mark Walker is Out of the Office
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:44:10 -0500
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On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 08:48:17 -0500, you wrote:

|>Here we go again!!!
|>

must.... kill.... mark.... walker...

From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:40:42 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: registration in va
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:50:00 -0500
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If lanham MD is close to your commute or along  your travels,
there is a place called "maryland tags and title".. which tend to take
care of the "stand in line and register" type of work for you.  I
believe they do all 3 local jurisdictions.  I think they charge a
small fee like $20 or $30 for their service.

They didnt' require any proof of residence... but of course they may
be tougher now.


Danny

On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 16:24:57 +0100, you wrote:

|>i am going to register my bike in VA.  Do they ask for proof of residence? i 
|>read the website, and they didn't mention anything about residence.  Or do I 
|>have to get VA driving licence before being able to register the bike there? 
|>what kind of proof of residence do they ask for? do i have to have credit 
|>card bank bills sent over to my va location?
|>thanks,
|>pierfrancesco
|>
|>
|>_________________________________________________________________
|>Join the worldM-bM-^@M-^Ys largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
|>http://www.hotmail.com
|>


From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:46:41 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: It's the little things in life...
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:56:00 -0500
Message-ID: <burtauo54fglhm7tcpgr1u7ev7nsrj19lk@4ax.com>
References: <2344588A203AD311B795009027626986360326@CWDEXCH0> <3CAB7431.B0530704@patriot.net>
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yea, if your'e going to use up 2 spaces, and your car is sooo freakin
precious, park on the other side of the parking lot, away from the
rest of the cars.  Consider the walk as exercise, it wont' kill you.


I'm still trying to figure out how there are 4 assigned parking spaces
around 1 square motorcycle parking space. 


danny

From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 07:48:30 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: A new VA DMV record?
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 07:57:50 -0500
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Amazing isnt' it. It's almost annoying when you have to go there and
fill out forms and the forms are longer than the wait time..  but then
I think about how it used to be so... uhm i'm not so annoyed <G>

From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 08:00:45 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: dealers and credit scores
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 08:10:04 -0500
Message-ID: <prstau4p6a93kmupdi1q6to91nnsva48rf@4ax.com>
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how about sell the bike he has now + the 3k and buy something newer
but used.  What kind of bike does he have now? maybe i can find him
soemthing.

Danny

On Thu, 4 Apr 2002 10:58:16 -0500 , you wrote:

|>I have a friend who is gonna explode if he doesn't get a new bike (or so he
|>claims).  He's been to several local dealers (Clinton Cycles, Coleman, not
|>sure where else) and keeps getting denied financing because of his credit.
|>I advised him to either buy something in the price range of the cash he has
|>now ($3K), or keep the bike he has now and save up and buy later when he has
|>more cash, but that did not fly too well. (You know how those young'uns can
|>be)
|>
|>I've never financed a bike, never financed a car, even when I buy new. I
|>hate credit and loans and the like so this world is completely foreign to
|>me.  Can anyone recommend a dealer that is a little more willing to work
|>with someone with damaged credit?  He doesn't mind taking a lengthy road
|>trip.  Any other suggestions will be passed along.
|>
|>Thanks!!!
|>
|>Patti the Lantech
|>'95 Virago 750
|>


From dc-cycles-request Sat Apr  6 15:25:03 2002
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Subject: Re: Okay, fess up!
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "hcaldwell" <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 10:18 PM
Subject: RE: Okay, fess up!


> 
> On Thu, 4 Apr 2002, Larry Larson wrote:
> 
> > The damn things can put your eye out! Wasn't there a court case that 
> > demonstrated just that a few years ago?
> > 
>  Or smother you to death.
> http://entertainment.yahoo.com/entnews/wwn/20020116/101119320009.html
> 
> Hugh
> 
But what a way to go!

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 09:08:24 2002
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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 09:08:01 -0400
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From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
Subject: Ride at 10am cancelled
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For those planning to meet in Manassas at 10am, 2 of us won't be 
there.  Hope this catches you before you leave home.


_____________________________________
   Mike Troutman
        mike@XXXXXX
        http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         '97 Honda VFR 750
         N38.84810 W77.44614



From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 10:22:19 2002
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Subject: Snow Valley MS 150 
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Anyone doing this push-bike ride in mid-May? Runs from Manassas to
Fredericksburgh (I can guess at the route).

PS. if you'd like to pledge please contact me off-list.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 10:25:37 2002
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Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:37:10 -0400
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From: Wayne Edelen <wayne@XXXXXX>
Subject: Off Topic - Cage for sale
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I've seen some off-topic posts here (ha!), so hopefully you won't mind the
shameless advertising  :-)

I'm selling my NBM 2001 WS6.  It has 20k miles on it, the only mods are
!CAGS, Borla catback and a Whisper airbox lid.  I have a set of Kenny Brown
DD SFCs that are powdercoated blue ready to go on the car that I will
include in the deal.  The car is in very good shape, except for 3 things...

1. there is a scratch on the pass side mirror
2. there is a scratch on the driver's side door
3. there is a small area of curb rash on one wheel

You can see current pictures of the car (along with the mirror
scratch/wheel ding) at http://www.ws6.org/forsale/

No solid price on it, KBB/Edmunds say it's worth ~19k on trade in, so make
me a reasonable offer above that.  I can be reached at wayne@XXXXXX
or 301.639.2481 (just leave me a message).  I want to move the car within
the next week, so if you know anyone looking, send them my way.  The car is
located near Frederick, MD.

Pics and specs on the car at http://www.ws6.org/  If anyone 'net savvy buys
the car, I'll also transfer the ws6.org domain to them (for whatever fee
I'm charged).

Thanks!

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 11:06:13 2002
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:06:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: 'Tale of 2 Nighthawks' ride
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The title curtesy of my riding partner: Jeff Conlin.

He on a '91 with nifty (and effective) Targa bodywork and me on my '95
went for just over 300 miles on Sat. From Springfield, VA we went down
to Lorton and then over to Minneville road to west of Quantico via
Joplin Rd. and a couple of less-traveled backroads. Wending our way
over to US-17 I pointed us toward I-95 because of a time crunch, and
taking the north-west route to find a bridge over the river was likely
to take too long.

Lunch was a road-side picnic offered by some friends checking out their
new homestead. Ham and cheese tastes mighty fine. Getting ready to go I
unfortunately left my helmet on the seat and a gust blew it off and
broke the shield retainer. Trying to use a pen-knife led to my slicing
my finger so it was off to CVS for some bandaids, glue, duct tape and a
quick visit over to Morton's across the street. I was amazed, the red
Triumph Speed3 was *STILL* there from last year. A quick sit confirmed
the balance and ergonomics on the 905 was much better then the 509
which is what I have.

>From there we just felt like exploring, so GPS on full-screen mode we
headed west and north. We looked at a couple of dirt roads and thought
better of it (for now). From US522/US15/US29 freshly refuelled we tried
to make a bee-line for the mountains only to run into a couple of roads
that got close and then just dead-ended. We considered taking a SW
route to pick up US-33 and then into the Blue-ridge but we only had
about 2 hours worth of daylight left. So down US-15 a little bit to
route 609 which looked promising. Indeed it was fabulous!! The views of
perfect blue sky and clouds, and valley views was amazing. A few
pictures were snapped for posterity sake. The "Blue Ridge Turnpike" led
us past the trailhead for White Oak (??) trail. The road kept going so
we continued but again we were left with no place to go just shy of the
hills.

Turning around, Jeff to the navigation over (I'd been fired. *smile*)
hung a left at 634 and we found the curviest and most challenging road
yet of the day. Wow! A left turn at the T and up just a short ways
yielded a Right that took us to US-522 eventually. This one was dirt,
about 4 miles long I guess. I'm out of practice riding in dirt and it
showed. Still it was plenty fun making large dust clouds. Jeff can sure
smell out those roads. Well actually, his GPS map was better than mine
and I didn't have the same level detail loaded.

>From US-522N I thought 618 looked mighty good but 1/2 up the mountain
it turned into dirt again. Dirt is ok and all but I didn't really want
to have to ride in increasingly technical terrain on a 500lb bike on
street tires at dusk. This whole section south of 211 and east of 522
is probably incredibly fun on a dual-sport. The maze of roads is
extensive. Hmm, can I fit suitable tires to my GS?

So I punched out and we proceeded back up 522. Lateness of the hour
precluded running 211 up and back so we headed to 645 and worked
ourselves back to route 55. I must say i've never run 645 west to east
and it felt and looked very different. With the light failing we picked
up I-66 at US-15 and blazed back to Manassas for some much needed grub
and warmth.

I had been using my Widder electrics all day and had been doing fine
till sundown approached. I wasn't shaking but I definately felt
chilled. Jeff had to have been freezing. Early afternoon it hit 50's I
guess but most of the time it was a lot colder than that.

Dinner was supposed to be a large slab of pig or cow but the wait and
general crowds of the restaurant off of RT-28 was just too much. Note
to self: don't go there on Sat evening. We walked across the street to
the "International Restaurant" which was actually just a mexican place.
I think it's safe to say we were the first Gringo's to visit in quite
some time. The only other "misfit" there was a African fellow who by
behavior (wasn't ordering food, just sitting) and size was probably an
off-duty cop there for security purposes.

The food was really quite good even if the DJ/singer in the corner
actually believed the tiny restaurant needed all 100W that his stereo
was capable of producing. I can't say I've ever eaten my dinner with
earplugs in before, but it was right decent that way. I pity the
young'un in the next table though. The mom had to spend the time
covering her child's ears. Requests to turn the noise down fell on deaf
ears. (big surprise)

We made tracks for home. It was surely a long but fun day. I lost my
GPS due to batteries running out some place on 645 but hopefully my
bread-crumb route is still down-loadable. If anyone wants a MapSource
track we should be able to provide on.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 11:21:55 2002
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Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 08:21:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: BIKE NIGHT TONIGHT
To: DC Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Uncle Jed's, Bethesda

http://www.geocities.com/bikenight/

=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 12:47:10 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: BIKE NIGHT TONIGHT
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geez, no GPS coordinates? *grin*

I think this should get you close enough: (if mapquest can be believed)
N38.98490 W77.09471

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 12:49:55 2002
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From: "Danny Thompson" <dthompso1@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020407090711.029d6460@mail.troutman.org>
Subject: Re: Ride at 10am cancelled
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Since the 10:00 ride didn't happen, does anyone want to meet to ride
sometime this afternoon? Anyone? Let me know.
Danny
'98 VTR (For Sale)
'01 Shadow Tourer (For Sale)
'99 SV  (race bike)
'02 XR250R.
www.onewayracing.org

Sponsored by:
Shen Valley Trailers: www.shenvalleywarrenton.com, toll free @ 888-743-6825
Blalock Cycle: www.blalockcycle.com, 540-347-4591
----- Original Message -----
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:08 AM
Subject: Ride at 10am cancelled


> For those planning to meet in Manassas at 10am, 2 of us won't be
> there.  Hope this catches you before you leave home.
>
>
> _____________________________________
>    Mike Troutman
>         mike@XXXXXX
>         http://www.troutman.org/vfr
>
>          '97 Honda VFR 750
>          N38.84810 W77.44614
>
>
>


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From dc-cycles-request Sun Apr  7 19:52:06 2002
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From: motopsycho_danny@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: html MC links
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:01:39 -0400
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http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-products-and-accessories/motorcycle-products.htm

here is a list of links I found, with some explanation of the links.

Probably helpful to keep around.


danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 03:37:53 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Adam Reinhardt <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>
Subject: DP Safety school
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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  Is anyone on the list familiar with DP Safety
School?  How does it compare to California Superbike
or CLASS?  I'm looking to take an introductory level
track school.
It seems that DP is a more economical alternative, as
the program fees are slightly less and they don't
require brand new tires.

Thanks

Adam Reinhardt
89 CBR

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 04:07:38 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: trailers wheel chocks or what...
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 04:07:09 -0400
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ok I managed to wrangle up myself a trailer...
6x9 rear gate, steel beams wooding front & side railing...

So now.. do I just use the front trailer wall as a stop,
or should I get myself some break away wheel chocks?

6 feet wide, will i be able to put 3 modern sportbikes there side by
side, or will the middle one have to be loaded backwards?


Thanks 

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 07:50:33 2002
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Get motorcycle wheel chocks.  2 - 3 bikes all the way forward might make
the tongue to heavy to lift.  You don't want the load to far back
either.  The bikes should be positioned so that at least 10% of the
total trailer/cargo wieght is on the tongue.  Tongue to heavy = hernia,
tongue to light = major trailer sway.

Methinks 3 bikes in 6 feet will be a squeeze.

Bill

daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> ok I managed to wrangle up myself a trailer...
> 6x9 rear gate, steel beams wooding front & side railing...
>
> So now.. do I just use the front trailer wall as a stop,
> or should I get myself some break away wheel chocks?
>
> 6 feet wide, will i be able to put 3 modern sportbikes there side by
> side, or will the middle one have to be loaded backwards?
>
> Thanks
>
> Danny


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 09:02:01 2002
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Subject: o/t: what kind of lawyer do I need?
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OK, the renters strike again.  they are trying to say
that their security deposit is their last month's rent.
I explained to them according to their lease that is
not the case.  

She said she would drop the rent off on saturday...it
still isn't here. according to my lease I can now give
them five days to pay their rent and then evict them.

What kind of lawyer do I need to help me with all of
this and does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks.


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 09:13:41 2002
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CAR PHONE SAFETY: SCREAM "AAHH!" BEFORE IMPACT 

New York, N.Y. M-^W Under pressure to do something about car accidents 
involving cell phones, the industry-backed Cell Phone Safety Council today launched a public service campaign urging users to "scream like hell" before impact, thereby alerting callers on the other end that there is some kind of trouble. 

http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml 


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 10:09:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: o/t: what kind of lawyer do I need?
To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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you need a lawyer who practices in the landlord/tenant area
and in your county.  search at http://www.lawyers.com

[not legal advice]  i don't like your odds of getting them
out before the end of the month through the court system. 
you will find virginia's summary eviction provisions (if
that's the remedy your lease provides you) in the code; and
some listers have been rather good about searching va's
code and providing the proper links.

i thought they caused damage to your unit?  are they
assuming the security deposit was for some other purpose? 
if so, they're mistaken.  good luck.


--- LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> OK, the renters strike again.  they are trying to say
> that their security deposit is their last month's rent.
> I explained to them according to their lease that is
> not the case.  
> 
> She said she would drop the rent off on saturday...it
> still isn't here. according to my lease I can now give
> them five days to pay their rent and then evict them.
> 
> What kind of lawyer do I need to help me with all of
> this and does anyone have any recommendations?
> 
> Thanks.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 10:20:04 2002
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Subject: RE: DP Safety school
Sender: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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Adam,

I've taken Keith Code's California Superbike School, but not attended dP Safety.  IMHO, Code's school is top notch.  FYI, a good friend of mine (Gary Jaehne) is an instructor for dP Safety and even though I've never taken one of their schools, I would also recommend dP based on knowing Gary.  They are both good track schools (and there are others too ... STAR, Freddie Spencer, etc.) so I don't think you can go too far wrong with either one.  CSS is probably more structured.

Chuck

P.S.  dP only teaches at CA trackes, whereas CSS teaches at tracks around the country.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Adam Reinhardt ajreinhardt@XXXXXX
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: DP Safety school


  Is anyone on the list familiar with DP Safety
School?  How does it compare to California Superbike
or CLASS?  I'm looking to take an introductory level
track school.
It seems that DP is a more economical alternative, as
the program fees are slightly less and they don't
require brand new tires.

Thanks

Adam Reinhardt
89 CBR

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 10:30:09 2002
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From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: DP Safety school
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, "ajreinhardt@XXXXXX" <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>,
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> P.S.  dP only teaches at CA trackes, whereas CSS
> teaches at tracks around the country.

Hm, you would probably go through a set of tires
riding out to California (-;

--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> Adam,
> 
> I've taken Keith Code's California Superbike School,
> but not attended dP Safety.  IMHO, Code's school is
> top notch.  FYI, a good friend of mine (Gary Jaehne)
> is an instructor for dP Safety and even though I've
> never taken one of their schools, I would also
> recommend dP based on knowing Gary.  They are both
> good track schools (and there are others too ...
> STAR, Freddie Spencer, etc.) so I don't think you
> can go too far wrong with either one.  CSS is
> probably more structured.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> P.S.  dP only teaches at CA trackes, whereas CSS
> teaches at tracks around the country.
> 
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Adam Reinhardt ajreinhardt@XXXXXX
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 00:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
> To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
> Subject: DP Safety school
> 
> 
>   Is anyone on the list familiar with DP Safety
> School?  How does it compare to California Superbike
> or CLASS?  I'm looking to take an introductory level
> track school.
> It seems that DP is a more economical alternative,
> as
> the program fees are slightly less and they don't
> require brand new tires.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Adam Reinhardt
> 89 CBR
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 
>
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 10:38:20 2002
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In a message dated 4/8/02 10:25:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:


> I've taken Keith Code's California Superbike School, but not attended dP 
> Safety.  IMHO, Code's school is top notch.  FYI, a good friend of mine 
> (Gary Jaehne) is an instructor for dP Safety and even though I've never 
> taken one of their schools, I would also recommend dP based on knowing 
> Gary.  They are both good track schools (and there are others too ... STAR, 
> Freddie Spencer, etc.) so I don't think you can go too far wrong with 
> either one.  CSS is probably more structured.
> 

My review from last year.....

Keener
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------

My experience with the California Superbike School
Level One
May 16th, 2001

By Steve Keener


Some background about me first.  I am an expert club roadracer.  I've been 
racing for 5 years now.  I do fairly well in most events.  But I know that I 
can do better.  I believe in taking classes and taking constructive criticism 
to try and fix problems in my riding style.  I try to take at least one class 
per year if not more.  This year I was convinced that I would gain a lot by 
shelling out the big bucks and attending Keith Code's California Superbike 
School.  I've got his Twist of the Wrist books and consider them excellent.  
My normal racing buddy Pete Friedman claimed that I would gain a lot from the 
class.  Hesitant about spending $800 for 2 days I opted to try the Level 1 
single day for about $400.  I figured that if I liked it...I could always try 
to get added to the level 2 for the next day.  Why would they turn away 
another $400?  

So I take a day off from work in the middle of the week.  (Wed 5/16/01)  I 
drive the 5 hours to Danville, VA on Tuesday after work.  No problem, I 
really like the VIR facilities and enjoy the technical track quite a bit.  
The only downside was the weather.  Instead of the forecast partly 
cloudy....it's mostly rainy.  Still, I like riding in the wet....so it's 
still no issue for me.  I'm riding my YZF-R6.  This is the first time since I 
got seriously hurt on it last season.  I figure that it's better to ride a 
stock bike than my SV700 superbike.  It should expose my flaws quicker...and 
also let me get back on the critter.  (Plus it's not going to give me a hard 
time on the track by not starting like some other bikes in the class.  And 
worst case is that my SV is a nice backup bike in case I do have problems.)

The day starts wet and dreary.  I get to the track and it's a bit 
disorganized.  Nothing new to a racer.  I unload my bike and give it the once 
over looking for any problems I've missed when checking it out the previous 
two days at home. Nothing wrong.  I meander over to the tractor trailer where 
they are doing registration and breakfast and get in line.  Seems a bit 
slow...but nothing horrible.  I'm not overly anxious about a mildly late 
start.  After registration they start herding the riders into their 
respective groups.  (Kinda like the 'herding cats' commercial.)  I'm in the 
green group for the level one class.  We go inside and do our first briefing. 
 It's given by the man himself - Keith Code.  This is the basics briefing for 
everybody.  Flags, etiquette, passing rules, etc.  Then we go into the actual 
meat of the session.  The first briefing was about proper corner entry speed. 
 I had heard different things about Keith's lecturing.  I was surprised by 
his animated speaking style.  He is far better than many professional 
speakers I've seen in the past.  Things were looking up in my opinion.  He 
discusses entry speed, throttle control, traction, and the line through a 
corner.  It's not a new set of topics for me...I read his book several times 
a year picking up new things each time.  At the end they give us our 
instructions for the first track session.  No brakes and stay in 4th gear.  
OK, I like no brakes drills...they are an excellent teaching tool.  We suit 
up and....wait....for about 20 minutes.  Hmpf.

The track is wet, I'm on a zippy R6 on Michelin Pilots.  The grip 
is...tenuous at best.  I'm as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of 
rocking chairs.  I'm a bit hesitant a couple of times on the throttle.  My 
delivery isn't as smooth as normal.  After the session I hunt up the CSS 
mechanic and ask about a possible tire change.  He tells me he doesn't have 
time because he's repairing a dumped bike...but that they have the machine 
and I'm welcome to do it myself.  

I do my second briefing.  It's given by Coby Fair.  He's not as good a 
speaker as Keith.  Evidently they are running on the north and south courses 
today.  So Keith & Coby are alternating.  OK by me.  It's still the same 
course material.  This one is about turning points.  Still a good topic.  The 
only drawback was that the lecture (they call them briefings) seemed a bit 
rushed....and short.  This was going to turn out to be the theme for the day. 


I go to Brian Roach (Another racer & student today)  He offers to change the 
tire for me....and I offer my spare set of Michelin rains for him to use.  
Nice.  I didn't see an instructor on the track or afterwards from the first 
session.  Oh well.  We begin to frantically work on the two bikes.  I already 
have a rear mounted.  I just need the front changed.  He does the mounting, 
and I pull the rims off the bikes.  I get mine ready and his only needs to 
have them mounted at this point.  I've missed my second track session.  But 
to get the stability of the rain tires...it's entirely worth it in my 
opinion.

Briefing number 3, given by Keith.  This is about turning.  It's the basics 
of fast versus lazy turning.  Good stuff, but still well covered in his 
books.  I think we were in there for about 20 minutes.  The instructions for 
the track session are 2 gears and very light braking, or you can still choose 
1 gear and no braking.  I go for 2 gears.  

Just before going out I get my first bit of feedback for the day.  All 15 
seconds of it.  Stoney Landers tells me that I was a bit hesitant on the 
throttle roll on in the first practice.  I explain the tire issue and that I 
will be much smoother this session.  (I was...I was monitoring myself just 
because of that comment.  It was fair and valid.)  We got out for MAYBE 20 
minutes of on track time.  Because I'm now on rain tires and able to brake 
lightly..I start rolling around the track much faster than most of the 
students.  I expected this coming into the class, especially given the number 
of street riders in it.  Unfortunately the rule of 8 feet of space between 
you and the rider you pass is in the forefront of my mind.  A fellow racer 
was threatened to be thrown out because he came to close to another rider.  
The rider basically came over into his path as he was beginning to drive by.  
He shut down his drive, didn't pass, and got yelled at anyway.  Soooo, I'm 
being very very cautious when passing.  With the number of riders on the 
track it's difficult for me to reach a speed where I can actually feel like 
I'm accomplishing something.  In this session I saw not a single instructor 
near me the entire time.  Obviously I got no feedback from this session.  Just
 what I was paying for.  

We sit and wait to be called in for our briefing.  Brian Roach and his 
girlfriend Laura Granatto are basically yelling at their instructor that they 
haven't gotten much attention at all.  I chime in and basically tear the poor 
guy and asshole that I've had about zero and am NOT happy about it.  He says 
he will talk to the instructor about it.  I figure I've spoken up for myself 
at this point.

Briefing four.  Given by Coby.  This is about rider input to the bike.  
Basically it distills down to 'relax on the bike'.  I understand this because 
I was already doing the arm flapping thing earlier in the day to relax.  (The 
R6 still gets to me sometimes.)  It's a very good exercise to give to riders. 
 You can see where it helps you immediately when you do a single endurance 
race. I did one the previous weekend on a strange bike.  I spent several laps 
flapping.   The pace of the lecture was yet again hurried.  The total time in 
the briefing was 15 minutes.  Five minutes discussing the previous track 
ride, and 10 discussing the benefits of relaxing.  We go out to wait yet 
again for 25 minutes before our track session.  During this briefing Coby 
asks if we have gotten enough attention from our instructors.  I speak up and 
say I've basically gotten zero.  I also remind him that the last time I was 
here racing....he approached me out of the blue about being an instructor for 
the school.  He remembers me and tells me that he'll have the instructors 
make a point of getting with me.  After 'speaking' with an instructor (I have 
no clue who mine actually is) and with Coby about the lack of attention I 
figure it should be a solved problem.

Track Session 4.  The drill is to relax.  We can use 3 gears and light 
braking.  The track is unfortunately dry at this point, and I'm still on 
rains.  No big deal to me.  We haven't been going fast enough to really do 
anything.  I go out and can't get a clean set of turns most anywhere.  At 
this point I can either piss people off by passing closely or tour around the 
track.  I'm touring.  I get red flagged and called in.  OK....now I'm pissed 
off.  I've done absolutely nothing wrong to my knowledge.  What was the 
problem?  I wasn't paying enough attention to the track.  I was looking at 
the cornerworkers.  (OK...so I waved at a couple...so shoot me.)  After being 
yelled at I then decide to go and run a couple of faster laps, damn the 
consequences of being yelled at.  In other words, so far today I've waited 
30+ minutes between sessions....roaming around learning nothing...and been 
yelled at.  I can basically get in 3-4 laps before the end.  I FINALLY 
started to damage the full rain tires in the dry.  Only one rear slide.  At 
the end of the session I got my second bit of instruction....relax.  
Yeah....so I was uptight when I was touring the track for the previous part 
of the day?  Of yeah...that tripled the amount of instructor attention...from 
15 seconds all the way to 45 seconds....total.

Wait 30 minutes.  Now briefing #5 given by Coby.  This one is about vision.  
Looking where you want to go.  It lasts all of 10 minutes.  How do I know 
this?  I timed briefings 4 & 5 on my watch's timer.  The instructions for the 
next drill: all gears, do the 2 steps for a turn.  

Wait 25 minutes.  Now go out in the last session.  It's still dry.  I 
contemplate dragging out my SV....and just turning a few hot laps.  Nah.  Not 
worth the effort at this late point.  I'm pretty well resigned....the day is 
a total loss for me.

Last session on track.  I go out and it's spitting rain...very very light.  
I'm unable to pass well without scaring the street riders.  And some of them 
are on large bikes...running very unstable lines around the track.  I pity 
Robert Lee on his EX500 trying to get around the rolling chicanes out there.  
And to be fair....the street riders just don't know any better.  All of the 
racers were that bad at one time.  I do NOT blame them for anything.  They 
are riding to the best of their abilities.

After 2 laps (I heard them say that we would only get 18 minutes) I get 
pulled of the course by an instructor.  He basically says that I can pass the 
people...it's obvious that I'm not learning anything at that pace.  Gee, ya 
think?  You miss the white expert number plates on my bike?  What about the 
top 10 regional club number?  OK, at this point I am seriously annoyed, 
pissed about a wasted day, and have maybe 10 minutes of track time left.  So 
I go out and decide to run a relatively decent pace.  It starts to rain.  But 
luckily I have rain tires.  So I still speed up.  I'm pretty much whipping 
through traffic where I can pass safely.  (Closer than before...but still be 
a WIDE margin.)  Session ends, I drive straight to my trailer where I begin 
to rack my bike inside.  An instructor comes over and says that my body was 
slightly crossed up in some of the turns.  Ahhhh....just what I was waiting 
for....decent feedback so I can fix it and get feedback when I do it 
correctly.  Hey, wait a minute.  No more track time.  My instructor feedback 
doubled this time.  Up to 1 minutes and 30 seconds total.  Was it a valid 
comment.  Yes.  I had been working on that very thing during the endurance 
race the previous weekend.  Did I know about being 'crossed up'.  No.  I'll 
have to study some video of the races to try and figure out exactly what he 
meant.  And yes...I let this instructor (Not Stoney this time.) have yet 
another ass ripping.

So let me sum up my day.  Breakfast danish, wait, short lecture, wait, slow 
track time, wait, pathetically little feedback, wait, leave disgusted.  
That's about it in a nutshell.
The system is designed around a street rider.  It is NOT for a roadracer with 
experience.  Obviously they needed to adjust the curricula for an experience 
roadracer.  There were several in attendance.  Even the person with just 1 
roadracing weekend under her belt was disgusted.  Could they have corrected 
riding flaws I have....yes...if I had gotten any attention.  I'm wondering if 
diving in front of the instructors was what it took to get their attention.

Needless to say I had some choice comments to the course review.  I filled it 
out, accounted for the 1 missed track session.  (Which I do NOT fault them 
for in any way....nor would I fault them for the weather either.)  I then 
took it and the transponder up to Keith Code.  I made sure that he read it, 
had my feedback, and my general feeling of disgust for the wasted day.  He 
was not happy....of course.  So yes...I handed out...you guessed it...another 
ass ripping.  Seems to be my stock in trade for the day.  

If you are a racer looking to improve your skills.  Buy the Twist of the 
Wrist 2 book.  Write down the basic theme for each chapter.  Go to a track 
day.  Focus on 1 chapter for each session on the track.  You will get better 
effect than I did trying to apply those lessons in the street crowd on the 
track.  I do believe that the no-brakes drill is one of the most effective 
out there.  I'll probably be taking a class on it (for the 3rd time) this 
summer at Roebling from Frank Kinsey.  

If you are a street rider.  I'd say that you could learn some valuable 
information in the class.  But I think that you spend too little time doing 
anything constructive.  The total amount of track time was relatively small.  
And the amount of lecture was even smaller.  Pick up the books.  Read them.  
Go to a different class where they put a premium on track time.

If this review angers you...fine.  The poor experience angered me.  It's my 
opinion, I'm entitled to it.  (And I wasn't in the minority that day.)  I'm 
sure others have had decent experiences.  I didn't.  This is my review.  

Steve Keener
Championship Cup Series, Mid Atlantic #3; South East #4
AMA #444
FUSA #144



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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 4/8/02 10:25:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I've taken Keith Code's California Superbike School, but not attended dP Safety.&nbsp; IMHO, Code's school is top notch.&nbsp; FYI, a good friend of mine (Gary Jaehne) is an instructor for dP Safety and even though I've never taken one of their schools, I would also recommend dP based on knowing Gary.&nbsp; They are both good track schools (and there are others too ... STAR, Freddie Spencer, etc.) so I don't think you can go too far wrong with either one.&nbsp; CSS is probably more structured.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
My review from last year.....<BR>
<BR>
Keener<BR>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
My experience with the California Superbike School<BR>
Level One<BR>
May 16th, 2001<BR>
<BR>
By Steve Keener<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Some background about me first.&nbsp; I am an expert club roadracer.&nbsp; I've been racing for 5 years now.&nbsp; I do fairly well in most events.&nbsp; But I know that I can do better.&nbsp; I believe in taking classes and taking constructive criticism to try and fix problems in my riding style.&nbsp; I try to take at least one class per year if not more.&nbsp; This year I was convinced that I would gain a lot by shelling out the big bucks and attending Keith Code's California Superbike School.&nbsp; I've got his Twist of the Wrist books and consider them excellent.&nbsp; My normal racing buddy Pete Friedman claimed that I would gain a lot from the class.&nbsp; Hesitant about spending $800 for 2 days I opted to try the Level 1 single day for about $400.&nbsp; I figured that if I liked it...I could always try to get added to the level 2 for the next day.&nbsp; Why would they turn away another $400?&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
So I take a day off from work in the middle of the week.&nbsp; (Wed 5/16/01)&nbsp; I drive the 5 hours to Danville, VA on Tuesday after work.&nbsp; No problem, I really like the VIR facilities and enjoy the technical track quite a bit.&nbsp; The only downside was the weather.&nbsp; Instead of the forecast partly cloudy....it's mostly rainy.&nbsp; Still, I like riding in the wet....so it's still no issue for me.&nbsp; I'm riding my YZF-R6.&nbsp; This is the first time since I got seriously hurt on it last season.&nbsp; I figure that it's better to ride a stock bike than my SV700 superbike.&nbsp; It should expose my flaws quicker...and also let me get back on the critter.&nbsp; (Plus it's not going to give me a hard time on the track by not starting like some other bikes in the class.&nbsp; And worst case is that my SV is a nice backup bike in case I do have problems.)<BR>
<BR>
The day starts wet and dreary.&nbsp; I get to the track and it's a bit disorganized.&nbsp; Nothing new to a racer.&nbsp; I unload my bike and give it the once over looking for any problems I've missed when checking it out the previous two days at home. Nothing wrong.&nbsp; I meander over to the tractor trailer where they are doing registration and breakfast and get in line.&nbsp; Seems a bit slow...but nothing horrible.&nbsp; I'm not overly anxious about a mildly late start.&nbsp; After registration they start herding the riders into their respective groups.&nbsp; (Kinda like the 'herding cats' commercial.)&nbsp; I'm in the green group for the level one class.&nbsp; We go inside and do our first briefing.&nbsp; It's given by the man himself - Keith Code.&nbsp; This is the basics briefing for everybody.&nbsp; Flags, etiquette, passing rules, etc.&nbsp; Then we go into the actual meat of the session.&nbsp; The first briefing was about proper corner entry speed.&nbsp; I had heard different things about Keith's lecturing.&nbsp; I was surprised by his animated speaking style.&nbsp; He is far better than many professional speakers I've seen in the past.&nbsp; Things were looking up in my opinion.&nbsp; He discusses entry speed, throttle control, traction, and the line through a corner.&nbsp; It's not a new set of topics for me...I read his book several times a year picking up new things each time.&nbsp; At the end they give us our instructions for the first track session.&nbsp; No brakes and stay in 4th gear.&nbsp; OK, I like no brakes drills...they are an excellent teaching tool.&nbsp; We suit up and....wait....for about 20 minutes.&nbsp; Hmpf.<BR>
<BR>
The track is wet, I'm on a zippy R6 on Michelin Pilots.&nbsp; The grip is...tenuous at best.&nbsp; I'm as nervous as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.&nbsp; I'm a bit hesitant a couple of times on the throttle.&nbsp; My delivery isn't as smooth as normal.&nbsp; After the session I hunt up the CSS mechanic and ask about a possible tire change.&nbsp; He tells me he doesn't have time because he's repairing a dumped bike...but that they have the machine and I'm welcome to do it myself.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
I do my second briefing.&nbsp; It's given by Coby Fair.&nbsp; He's not as good a speaker as Keith.&nbsp; Evidently they are running on the north and south courses today.&nbsp; So Keith &amp; Coby are alternating.&nbsp; OK by me.&nbsp; It's still the same course material.&nbsp; This one is about turning points.&nbsp; Still a good topic.&nbsp; The only drawback was that the lecture (they call them briefings) seemed a bit rushed....and short.&nbsp; This was going to turn out to be the theme for the day. <BR>
<BR>
I go to Brian Roach (Another racer &amp; student today)&nbsp; He offers to change the tire for me....and I offer my spare set of Michelin rains for him to use.&nbsp; Nice.&nbsp; I didn't see an instructor on the track or afterwards from the first session.&nbsp; Oh well.&nbsp; We begin to frantically work on the two bikes.&nbsp; I already have a rear mounted.&nbsp; I just need the front changed.&nbsp; He does the mounting, and I pull the rims off the bikes.&nbsp; I get mine ready and his only needs to have them mounted at this point.&nbsp; I've missed my second track session.&nbsp; But to get the stability of the rain tires...it's entirely worth it in my opinion.<BR>
<BR>
Briefing number 3, given by Keith.&nbsp; This is about turning.&nbsp; It's the basics of fast versus lazy turning.&nbsp; Good stuff, but still well covered in his books.&nbsp; I think we were in there for about 20 minutes.&nbsp; The instructions for the track session are 2 gears and very light braking, or you can still choose 1 gear and no braking.&nbsp; I go for 2 gears.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Just before going out I get my first bit of feedback for the day.&nbsp; All 15 seconds of it.&nbsp; Stoney Landers tells me that I was a bit hesitant on the throttle roll on in the first practice.&nbsp; I explain the tire issue and that I will be much smoother this session.&nbsp; (I was...I was monitoring myself just because of that comment.&nbsp; It was fair and valid.)&nbsp; We got out for MAYBE 20 minutes of on track time.&nbsp; Because I'm now on rain tires and able to brake lightly..I start rolling around the track much faster than most of the students.&nbsp; I expected this coming into the class, especially given the number of street riders in it.&nbsp; Unfortunately the rule of 8 feet of space between you and the rider you pass is in the forefront of my mind.&nbsp; A fellow racer was threatened to be thrown out because he came to close to another rider.&nbsp; The rider basically came over into his path as he was beginning to drive by.&nbsp; He shut down his drive, didn't pass, and got yelled at anyway.&nbsp; Soooo, I'm being very very cautious when passing.&nbsp; With the number of riders on the track it's difficult for me to reach a speed where I can actually feel like I'm accomplishing something.&nbsp; In this session I saw not a single instructor near me the entire time.&nbsp; Obviously I got no feedback from this session.&nbsp; Just what I was paying for.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
We sit and wait to be called in for our briefing.&nbsp; Brian Roach and his girlfriend Laura Granatto are basically yelling at their instructor that they haven't gotten much attention at all.&nbsp; I chime in and basically tear the poor guy and asshole that I've had about zero and am NOT happy about it.&nbsp; He says he will talk to the instructor about it.&nbsp; I figure I've spoken up for myself at this point.<BR>
<BR>
Briefing four.&nbsp; Given by Coby.&nbsp; This is about rider input to the bike.&nbsp; Basically it distills down to 'relax on the bike'.&nbsp; I understand this because I was already doing the arm flapping thing earlier in the day to relax.&nbsp; (The R6 still gets to me sometimes.)&nbsp; It's a very good exercise to give to riders.&nbsp; You can see where it helps you immediately when you do a single endurance race. I did one the previous weekend on a strange bike.&nbsp; I spent several laps flapping.&nbsp;&nbsp; The pace of the lecture was yet again hurried.&nbsp; The total time in the briefing was 15 minutes.&nbsp; Five minutes discussing the previous track ride, and 10 discussing the benefits of relaxing.&nbsp; We go out to wait yet again for 25 minutes before our track session.&nbsp; During this briefing Coby asks if we have gotten enough attention from our instructors.&nbsp; I speak up and say I've basically gotten zero.&nbsp; I also remind him that the last time I was here racing....he approached me out of the blue about being an instructor for the school.&nbsp; He remembers me and tells me that he'll have the instructors make a point of getting with me.&nbsp; After 'speaking' with an instructor (I have no clue who mine actually is) and with Coby about the lack of attention I figure it should be a solved problem.<BR>
<BR>
Track Session 4.&nbsp; The drill is to relax.&nbsp; We can use 3 gears and light braking.&nbsp; The track is unfortunately dry at this point, and I'm still on rains.&nbsp; No big deal to me.&nbsp; We haven't been going fast enough to really do anything.&nbsp; I go out and can't get a clean set of turns most anywhere.&nbsp; At this point I can either piss people off by passing closely or tour around the track.&nbsp; I'm touring.&nbsp; I get red flagged and called in.&nbsp; OK....now I'm pissed off.&nbsp; I've done absolutely nothing wrong to my knowledge.&nbsp; What was the problem?&nbsp; I wasn't paying enough attention to the track.&nbsp; I was looking at the cornerworkers.&nbsp; (OK...so I waved at a couple...so shoot me.)&nbsp; After being yelled at I then decide to go and run a couple of faster laps, damn the consequences of being yelled at.&nbsp; In other words, so far today I've waited 30+ minutes between sessions....roaming around learning nothing...and been yelled at.&nbsp; I can basically get in 3-4 laps before the end.&nbsp; I FINALLY started to damage the full rain tires in the dry.&nbsp; Only one rear slide.&nbsp; At the end of the session I got my second bit of instruction....relax.&nbsp; Yeah....so I was uptight when I was touring the track for the previous part of the day?&nbsp; Of yeah...that tripled the amount of instructor attention...from 15 seconds all the way to 45 seconds....total.<BR>
<BR>
Wait 30 minutes.&nbsp; Now briefing #5 given by Coby.&nbsp; This one is about vision.&nbsp; Looking where you want to go.&nbsp; It lasts all of 10 minutes.&nbsp; How do I know this?&nbsp; I timed briefings 4 &amp; 5 on my watch's timer.&nbsp; The instructions for the next drill: all gears, do the 2 steps for a turn.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Wait 25 minutes.&nbsp; Now go out in the last session.&nbsp; It's still dry.&nbsp; I contemplate dragging out my SV....and just turning a few hot laps.&nbsp; Nah.&nbsp; Not worth the effort at this late point.&nbsp; I'm pretty well resigned....the day is a total loss for me.<BR>
<BR>
Last session on track.&nbsp; I go out and it's spitting rain...very very light.&nbsp; I'm unable to pass well without scaring the street riders.&nbsp; And some of them are on large bikes...running very unstable lines around the track.&nbsp; I pity Robert Lee on his EX500 trying to get around the rolling chicanes out there.&nbsp; And to be fair....the street riders just don't know any better.&nbsp; All of the racers were that bad at one time.&nbsp; I do NOT blame them for anything.&nbsp; They are riding to the best of their abilities.<BR>
<BR>
After 2 laps (I heard them say that we would only get 18 minutes) I get pulled of the course by an instructor.&nbsp; He basically says that I can pass the people...it's obvious that I'm not learning anything at that pace.&nbsp; Gee, ya think?&nbsp; You miss the white expert number plates on my bike?&nbsp; What about the top 10 regional club number?&nbsp; OK, at this point I am seriously annoyed, pissed about a wasted day, and have maybe 10 minutes of track time left.&nbsp; So I go out and decide to run a relatively decent pace.&nbsp; It starts to rain.&nbsp; But luckily I have rain tires.&nbsp; So I still speed up.&nbsp; I'm pretty much whipping through traffic where I can pass safely.&nbsp; (Closer than before...but still be a WIDE margin.)&nbsp; Session ends, I drive straight to my trailer where I begin to rack my bike inside.&nbsp; An instructor comes over and says that my body was slightly crossed up in some of the turns.&nbsp; Ahhhh....just what I was waiting for....decent feedback so I can fix it and get feedback when I do it correctly.&nbsp; Hey, wait a minute.&nbsp; No more track time.&nbsp; My instructor feedback doubled this time.&nbsp; Up to 1 minutes and 30 seconds total.&nbsp; Was it a valid comment.&nbsp; Yes.&nbsp; I had been working on that very thing during the endurance race the previous weekend.&nbsp; Did I know about being 'crossed up'.&nbsp; No.&nbsp; I'll have to study some video of the races to try and figure out exactly what he meant.&nbsp; And yes...I let this instructor (Not Stoney this time.) have yet another ass ripping.<BR>
<BR>
So let me sum up my day.&nbsp; Breakfast danish, wait, short lecture, wait, slow track time, wait, pathetically little feedback, wait, leave disgusted.&nbsp; That's about it in a nutshell.<BR>
The system is designed around a street rider.&nbsp; It is NOT for a roadracer with experience.&nbsp; Obviously they needed to adjust the curricula for an experience roadracer.&nbsp; There were several in attendance.&nbsp; Even the person with just 1 roadracing weekend under her belt was disgusted.&nbsp; Could they have corrected riding flaws I have....yes...if I had gotten any attention.&nbsp; I'm wondering if diving in front of the instructors was what it took to get their attention.<BR>
<BR>
Needless to say I had some choice comments to the course review.&nbsp; I filled it out, accounted for the 1 missed track session.&nbsp; (Which I do NOT fault them for in any way....nor would I fault them for the weather either.)&nbsp; I then took it and the transponder up to Keith Code.&nbsp; I made sure that he read it, had my feedback, and my general feeling of disgust for the wasted day.&nbsp; He was not happy....of course.&nbsp; So yes...I handed out...you guessed it...another ass ripping.&nbsp; Seems to be my stock in trade for the day.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
If you are a racer looking to improve your skills.&nbsp; Buy the Twist of the Wrist 2 book.&nbsp; Write down the basic theme for each chapter.&nbsp; Go to a track day.&nbsp; Focus on 1 chapter for each session on the track.&nbsp; You will get better effect than I did trying to apply those lessons in the street crowd on the track.&nbsp; I do believe that the no-brakes drill is one of the most effective out there.&nbsp; I'll probably be taking a class on it (for the 3rd time) this summer at Roebling from Frank Kinsey.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
If you are a street rider.&nbsp; I'd say that you could learn some valuable information in the class.&nbsp; But I think that you spend too little time doing anything constructive.&nbsp; The total amount of track time was relatively small.&nbsp; And the amount of lecture was even smaller.&nbsp; Pick up the books.&nbsp; Read them.&nbsp; Go to a different class where they put a premium on track time.<BR>
<BR>
If this review angers you...fine.&nbsp; The poor experience angered me.&nbsp; It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it.&nbsp; (And I wasn't in the minority that day.)&nbsp; I'm sure others have had decent experiences.&nbsp; I didn't.&nbsp; This is my review.&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
Steve Keener<BR>
Championship Cup Series, Mid Atlantic #3; South East #4<BR>
AMA #444<BR>
FUSA #144<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 11:15:10 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: pawilson@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vfr@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: bike night and r/r stuff
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 16:14:04 +0100
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Hey Paul,
is there a way i could wire mine to the battery ground too? perhaps we can 
do the job together saturday?

I have some more food for thought for you, i am going to CC: the board on 
this so perhaps someone has some ideas.

My R/R seems down, charging reads low in the 12.8  volts range and stuff.  
last night i plugged in the battery tender.  the battery charged, and today 
i probed it with the battery tender still on: 13.7 volts.  then i unplug the 
battery tender, probe it: 13.5 volts.  I keep the probe on and i notice that 
the voltage is dropping: 13.59, 13.58, 13.57 and so on.  i am very short of 
pacience, and didn't wait to see what was going to be the bottom of that 
trend.  I start up the bike, voltage drops to like 11.80 then it reads the 
usual: idles at 13.4, revved up goes to 12.80 or so.  I turn it off, and the 
battery now reads 12.8 volts or so.

Do i have a poltergheist in my battery? i doubt it.  It's just my ignorance.

Pierfrancesco


>From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
>To: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: bike night and r/r stuff
>Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 10:15:48 -0400
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
>
> > Hey Paul,
> > I apologyze i wasn't able to come, as much as I really wanted to.  I got
> > cought with staying on with a girl,
>
>You wild thing, you.  :)
>
>and anyway i was in rockville, it would
> > have been hard for me to get there.  I hope you had fun, as a matter of
> > facts, i am so curious about these bike nights: what are they? how many
> > people were there? anyone interesting? any awesome bikes?
>
>It's basically a DC-Cycles group that gets together every month or so at a
>local bar/eatery.  I had chili last night and Diet Coke.  I'm feeling the
>effects of said chili this morning.  :)  Well, as far as bikes go, let's
>see, there was the usual collection of red VFRs (three vintages, yours, 
>mine
>and
>a 90-93), RC-30 (Honda's hand-built race version of VFR, drool) Chuck's
>FZR400, couple Harleys, Jeff's Nighthawk 750, VTR Superhawk, Seca II,
>FZ1,etc.  As far as people, Chuck
>Pena, Lisa and Jay Goddard, Mark Kitchell, Chris Weaver and Sally Wood, 
>Rich
>(DC Architect who rides the Seca), Rob Keiser, Jeff Conlin (Matt's friend)
>and a couple of other people I didn't know.  A nice group of friendly
>people.
> >
> > On another note, Tony Matarazzi (whose description and judgement about 
>the
> > vfr also was one of the reasons i bought the bike) shipped me his used
>r/r.
> > It's got 30K miles on it.  He says i can keep it.  He also told me it 
>puts
> > out 13.5 volts, which is under specs, but he says his new one puts out
> > exactly the same.  I think using his r/r could be good at least for a
>final
> > diagnosis on my bike.  Perhaps i could even keep it on and keep an eye 
>on
> > the bike.
> >
> > I have read your posting on the vfr list and i understand that you want 
>to
> > put your r/r somewhere else on your bike.  I don't know if that's
>necessary
> > since it works perfectly: would you move around the fundaments of a
>building
> > when it holds up just fine? :) just teasing you.
>
>Well, it works fine, for now.  That's what worries me, having it crap out
>400 miles from DC.  I'm not going to move it, but I am considering
>direct-wiring it to the battery and replacing it with the newer fin-style
>unit and keeping the old one as a spare.
>
>But you should give it
> > another thought i think because i did hear about the rule if it ain't
>broken
> > don't fix it.  I understand that prevention has its importance though.
> >
> > Since my r/r definitely has had problems, i would like very much to 
>place
>it
> > elsewhere on the bike, or ground it differently, as you mentioned,
>directly
> > to the battery, but i wouldn't be able to do that alone.  I don't know
>what
> > kind of wires i should buy, where to get a metal plate to attach it 
>under
> > the horn, and so on.
> >
> > Is there a chance you could meet me when i get the r/r shipped? i 
>tracked
> > the pack and it's already in dulles, so chances are that perhaps i 
>should
> > get it by wednesday.
>
>Yes, definitely.   I should be working on the bike this weekend.  I need to
>replace the chain before my trip to Ohio (COTU).
> >
> > Let me know,
> > Thanks,
> > Pierfrancesco
>
>
>





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Scott, er Steve's experience just goes to show that YMMV.  I can certainly see that his level of riding experience/ability (being an expert club racer) could make for a different outcome than mine (me just being a street punk!)  Still, there's no (good) reason he should've had the (poor) experience he had.  I think part of the "problem" with CSS is that it is a "cookie cutter" approach that doesn't seem to adapt well based on riding skill (and everyone who goes for the first time is in the Level One class regardless of skill/ability).  And I think Steve is right about that they can be better about feedback.  I was persistent in asking questions, so I got good feedback (but don't know that I wouldn've gotten it had I not asked).  I have a feeling that CSS may be getting "too big" and just not able to offer the kind of personal attention that perhaps they were able to provide in the past.

Original Message: <SNIP>

My experience with the California Superbike School
Level One
May 16th, 2001

By Steve Keener

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 11:40:20 2002
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From: SKeener2@XXXXXX
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:39:51 EDT
Subject: Re: DP Safety school
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In a message dated 4/8/02 11:27:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:


> Scott, er Steve's experience just goes to show that YMMV.  I can certainly 
> see that his level of riding experience/ability (being an expert club 
> racer) could make for a different outcome than mine (me just being a street 
> punk!)  

Oh that almost hurts.  :P

And only street punks have RS250 tailsections on their streetbikes.  
Hehehe...ya squid!!!

Keener

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 4/8/02 11:27:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Scott, er Steve's experience just goes to show that YMMV.&nbsp; I can certainly see that his level of riding experience/ability (being an expert club racer) could make for a different outcome than mine (me just being a street punk!)&nbsp; </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Oh that almost hurts.&nbsp; :P<BR>
<BR>
And only street punks have RS250 tailsections on their streetbikes.&nbsp; Hehehe...ya squid!!!<BR>
<BR>
Keener<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 11:53:08 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020408073752.10140.qmail@web9601.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DP Safety school
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Reinhardt" <ajreinhardt@XXXXXX>



>   Is anyone on the list familiar with DP Safety
> School?  How does it compare to California Superbike
> or CLASS?  I'm looking to take an introductory level
> track school.
> It seems that DP is a more economical alternative, as
> the program fees are slightly less and they don't
> require brand new tires.
>
> Thanks
>
> Adam Reinhardt
> 89 CBR


As a YMMV comparison, here's a write-up of my experience at CLASS last
summer.  I was (and still am) a newbie when it comes to track riding.

--------------------------

I attended Reg Pridmore's CLASS Motorcycle School at Virginia International
Raceway near Danville, VA on July 16 and recommend it very highly.  My
friend Tom liked it so much he stuck around for another day. :)

For the most part the classroom sessions were good, although the quality did
wane toward the end of the day while Reg was doing his two-up rides. I
didn't partake in the two-up rides, but I was passed, as if I were standing
still, by Reg riding two-up on his VFR800. Reg himself is very personable
and he is clearly an enthusiast in the best sense of the word. He personally
greeted everyone in line to register. "First time, Paul?" he asked in his
lilting accent. How'd he know that? I guess the brand new leathers and
nervous demeanor were the tip-off. :)

He stressed throughout the day how what he teaches applies to street riding.
He does place great emphasis on "body steering" as opposed to
countersteering via inputs to the grips. While this technique obviously
works for him, he's not dogmatic about it. He says "give it a try and see if
it works for you." That is his approach to the entire day: expose you to
techniques of throttle control, braking, lines through corners and steering
that may be new to you and give you a chance to practice and get
comfortable.

As a newbie to track riding (for that reason I elected to ride with the "B"
Group) I found following behind the instructors to be most beneficial at
first, in particular observing their lines and their smoothness and control.
One instructor gave me the "follow me" sign to improve my lines. After a
while I was able to get my speeds up in some of the corners that were giving
me problems earlier. Having a "plan" in advance and sticking to it works
wonders with respect to entry speed, line, lean angle and where to get on
the gas. If you're thinking about it mid-corner it's way too late. Things
happen really fast at speed. It's a good mental habit to use on the street
too. In general the coaching is pretty minimal unless an instructor pulls
you off the track to work on a specific problem. I was never pulled out.
Otherwise, if you need feedback, you really need to ask for it.

I'll have to say that I never rode more than 8/10ths out on the track and
didn't wick up the speed too much on the straights. I preferred to
concentrate my mental energy on the corners and used the straights as
recovery time. I did rev the snot out of the bike just about the entire time
and the VFR handled all that without complaint. I also used all my tire
surfaces and figured out just how far the VFR can lean before the peg
feelers hit pavement. One of Reg's mantras is "trust your tires" and it's
absolutely true. And, wow, even those D205s get gooey and feathered on the
track. Other than a "chirp" due to a hamfisted downshift, the Dunlops stuck
like glue all day.

Being on the track allowed me to address some bad habits I've gotten into on
the VFR. One of them is my tendency to lean the bike more than my body.
Compared to my old Nighthawk the VFR is much more flickable and I've gotten
lazy and I've been using a lot less body lean and shifting of body weight on
the seat. You can't get away with that on the track since you run out of
ground clearance in a hurry at speed on many of those turns unless you shift
your body weight well to the inside. The second is to trust the bike and the
tires to perform for you when asked. At first I found myself puckering on
the sharp right hander that drops off downhill where you can't see the exit.
After convincing myself to get on gas, instead of slowing down, and leaning
the bike I was able to conquer my fear of that turn. The third is that
smoothness is paramount. Clumsy handling of the controls upsets the bike and
presents a major distraction. One thing the class really helped me with was
in the seamless brake, downshift, accelerate transition just before a turn.

Overall, a great day and some valuable lessons learned. Highly recommended.
There were a couple of run offs during the day and I gather that one rider
went down on the very last "A Group" track session. VIR is a superb track
(we were on the North course) with immaculate pavement and lots of elevation
change. Other than a couple of "moments of concern," as one instructor put
it, I never really came close to a mishap. I also had two very enjoyable
days of riding to and from the track. Southside and Central Virginia has
loads of smooth, twisty and traffic-free roads.


Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
www.wilsonline.org
Join the VFR750 list >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfr750



From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 12:08:48 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:08:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Conlin <jconli1@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Tale of Two Nighthawks
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(Two very different ones, too)

Some pix are up at http://jeff.desi-9.com/temp/2nh

Anyway... it was a great little shakedown ride, as I've been out of
commission for a few months. Two best moments for me were paralleling a
freight train for about 3 miles, both doing exactly 61mph. I glance over
at the engineer in awe of his machinery, and catch him gawking at us on
the bikes, probably wishing he had our machinery. Then the last-minute
route switch that paid off with a great little collection of twisties
following a stream, the climbing up through two small ridgelines.

Seems like VA and PA are both filled with incredible little roads that
take a lot of effort and a bit of a sixth sense to find, but if you've got
the patience to endure some clunkers while exploring, the payoff is
definitely worth it.

It was also nice spending quality time with the CB750. After riding some
SV's, a GPz, and my girlfriend's GS500E, I've been yearning for either a
more powerful or at least more flickable ride all winter, but once I got
the CB back together and spent about 500 miles on it this weekend, I
remembered why I just can't let it go, despite not being exactly enamoured
with it. It just does everything I ask it to, with no complaints, and
pretty well, too! How can I find fault with that?

The '98 Speed Triple at Morton's got me hot, but the idea of no debt makes
me more excited.

Rolled out to the bike night at Uncle Jed's last night. Met a few new
folks and reconnected with some old friends, but think I missed the big
crowd. Oh well. Next time.

Think I've stopped being a lurker here.
-- 
Jeff Conlin
Beltsville, MD
http://jeff.desi-9.com


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 12:16:36 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: o/t: what kind of lawyer do I need?
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:16:12 -0400
Message-ID: <8vf3bugqrromn2jnp2sq733qfrceun450n@4ax.com>
References: <20020408060154.29426.c002-h006.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net>
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I think you  need a big guy named guido to help. :)

I hope you can sue them for legal fees as well.  My guess is their
nature is not to seek legal counsel themselves, and you can use some
kind of scare tactic to get them out.  Maybe give them some kind of 
written notice saying "the rent is late, you now have 5 days left to
pay and after 5 days you will be required to leave the premisis if no
payment is recieved..  Staying on the premesis assumes a new rent of
(some ungodly amount $2000?) per month payable up front.  Should that
money not be paid in cash,  I will have my qualified and experienced
lawyer initiate a civil monetary suit in which case liens will be
placed against vehicles, and listed luxury property, future earned
wage withholdings, and any tax refunds, Please contact me to make
payment TODAY"

The idea is not that you intend to do that, but that you want them to
think "oh shyt! shes going to take my car or my bike, let's hurry up
and get out of here before she can sick her dogs on us".

if they're not paid up within 5 days, contact a lawyer.

or i have a friend named guido <g>


Danny


On Mon, 08 Apr 2002 06:01:53 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

|>OK, the renters strike again.  they are trying to say
|>that their security deposit is their last month's rent.
|>I explained to them according to their lease that is
|>not the case.  
|>
|>She said she would drop the rent off on saturday...it
|>still isn't here. according to my lease I can now give
|>them five days to pay their rent and then evict them.
|>
|>What kind of lawyer do I need to help me with all of
|>this and does anyone have any recommendations?
|>
|>Thanks.
|>
|>
|>________________________________________________
|>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
|>http://www.peoplepc.com 


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 12:21:31 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: <cnorloff@XXXXXX>
Cc: "List-dc cycles"  <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: SCREAM "AAHH!" BEFORE IMPACT 
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 12:21:06 -0400
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ROTFL!   what better way to hear your loved one "go out" than to hear
them scream in sheer terror. As a side note, they said users should
not scream "fu__ me!" before impact as the person on the other end
may mistake that for "dirty talk" and initiate the other person into
phone sex.



On Mon,  8 Apr 2002 09:13:39 -0400, you wrote:
|>CAR PHONE SAFETY: SCREAM "AAHH!" BEFORE IMPACT 
|>
|>New York, N.Y. M-bM-^@M-^T Under pressure to do something about car accidents 
|>involving cell phones, the industry-backed Cell Phone Safety Council today launched a public service campaign urging users to "scream like hell" before impact, thereby alerting callers on the other end that there is some kind of trouble. 
|>
|>http://www.satirewire.com/news/0007/satire-cellsafety.shtml 
|>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 12:27:10 2002
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In a message dated 4/6/2002 4:26:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cliffzig@XXXXXX writes:

> > > The damn things can put your eye out! Wasn't there a court case that 
>  > > demonstrated just that a few years ago?
>  > > 
>  >  Or smother you to death.

Believe it or not it was a whiplash case. The guy got hit by em during a lap 
dance. 

I hate that I remember that.

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 13:56:27 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Is Rouch-Creek for real this year?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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I rechecked the CCS website and Rouch Creek has 2 dates. Are they for
real or wishful thinking again?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:20:20 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:20:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: newbie training
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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would any of the moto-trainers on this list be willing to
speak with a neighbor of mine about the various options for
newbie training (i.e., how to get a motorcycle permit).

he's in maryland and finding it difficult to determine his
options for private training and eventual certification.

i'd love to forward him the email address of someone with
knowledge on these issues.....



--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:20:48 2002
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From: "Dexter Medley" <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
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Subject: "Exotiic Dancer Ride" info
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For those of you who still haven't stabilized your Viagra dosage, see: =
http://209.119.26.37/image/exotic.gif

-- Larry


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>For those of you who still haven't stabilized your =
Viagra=20
dosage, see: <A=20
href=3D"http://209.119.26.37/image/exotic.gif">http://209.119.26.37/image=
/exotic.gif</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-- Larry</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C1DF07.08CE7DC0--

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:25:25 2002
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matthew patton wrote

> 
> I rechecked the CCS website and Rouch Creek has 2
dates. Are they for
> real or wishful thinking again?
> 

there wll be no rausch creek this season...:(

LAG


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:30:46 2002
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Moi?  Calamari?  N'est pas!  OK, well maybe I have an inner squid lurking inside me.

And for the record, it's an Airtech TZ/Attack tailpiece.  Although I guess it does look a lot like an RX250 to those who don't know any better! %^)

Original Message: <SNIP>
-----------------

And only street punks have RS250 tailsections on their streetbikes.  
Hehehe...ya squid!!!

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:37:12 2002
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From: "Pelletier, Nina" <Nina.Pelletier@XXXXXX>
Subject: Licensing requirements in DC
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Hi everyone,

I'm new to the list and relatively new to motorcycling.  I just successfully completed the MSF course in Virginia.  Does anyone know whether the DC DMV accepts the MSF course certification card in lieu of the road test?  If not, could someone please tell me specifically what the road test entails? If you also have any contact numbers or e-mail addresses for the persons who administer the road tests, that would be greatly appreciated.  There is very little information on the DC DMV website concerning motorcycle licensing, and it seems impossible to get a live person with enough knowledge to answer my questions....How long does it take, in general?  Is the written test  specifically directed towards motorcycles, or is it the same as the driver's license test?  Do they allow you to practice on the road test course before you take the test?

Any and all help w/this would be great.  Thanks!

Nina

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:38:45 2002
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> Moi?  Calamari?  N'est pas!  OK, well maybe I have an inner squid lurking 
> inside me.

Uh huh.  I bet right now your mother's eyebrow is rasing up in sympathetic 
disbelief.

> And for the record, it's an Airtech TZ/Attack tailpiece.  Although I guess 
> it does look a lot like an RX250 to those who don't know any better! %^)

It's frigging chainsaw....why would I know.  Use it as a speedbump or a berm 
(by my'tractor') and keep on going.  Hehehehe  

--part1_1a9.5fb8e2.29e33da6_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Moi?&nbsp; Calamari?&nbsp; N'est pas!&nbsp; OK, well maybe I have an inner squid lurking inside me.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Uh huh.&nbsp; I bet right now your mother's eyebrow is rasing up in sympathetic disbelief.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">And for the record, it's an Airtech TZ/Attack tailpiece.&nbsp; Although I guess it does look a lot like an RX250 to those who don't know any better! %^)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
It's frigging chainsaw....why would I know.&nbsp; Use it as a speedbump or a berm (by my'tractor') and keep on going.&nbsp; Hehehehe&nbsp; </FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:44:35 2002
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Nope, no riding fer me.  SWMBO assigned my Harry Homeowner tasks and
kept busy overseeing my progress.  *grumble*

So while slaving away on the roof I hear the mighty call of a Harley.  A
nearby neighbor is going for a ride.  Grrrr...  He chugs around the
corner with his latest squeeze on the pillion, a trim blonde.  Oooo, now
I'm really cranked!  "Are you done yet?" SWMBO yells.  *&^$$%*   Harley
is ruining ratty, probably left the enricher on too long, and he stops
in front of my house.  *SAVE ME* I mentally plea, but the engine clears
and he roars off.

A couple minutes later I hear the Harley coming back.  Hmmm... engine
sounds fine but the throttle is going up and down, up and down.   So I
look up from my indentured servitude and - YIKES!  Blondie is in the
pilot seat and big dude is on the pillion!  From the rapid motion of his
lips and hand signals I deduce he's given her instructions.  She goes
about 140# I'd guess, bike is 800#, and BIG dude on the pillion is maybe
250/280!  Good Gawd, man, what were you thinking!

The scene:

Blondie:  "But Bubba, I wanna drive."  (pouty lip)
Bubba:  "I don't think so, darlin'."
Blondie:  "Aw, please, pretty please."  Big smile and a deep breath to
inflate her already ample chest profile.)
Bubba:  (thinks - Yo mama, check the rack!) "Weeelll, okay."

Yeppers, so maybe Bubba was thinking with the little head, but I'll give
him points for having giant cajones.  Just watching her weave down the
road made my boys shrivel. No second lap around the  block, but I didn't
hear the call of the ambulance.  Who knows, maybe Blondie will show up
next week on her own brand new kick-ass Sportster!

Bill


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 14:49:54 2002
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Far as I know, niether DC nor MD accept the VA MSF completion card, and vice versa.  The only DC rule I know is you can't run the riding test on a bike (scooter) with an automatic transmission.  Methoinsk Paul Wilson and few other listers will have up to date info on the DC DMV debacle.

Bill

Pelletier, Nina wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new to the list and relatively new to motorcycling.  I just successfully completed the MSF course in Virginia.  Does anyone know whether the DC DMV accepts the MSF course certification card in lieu of the road test?  If not, could someone please tell me specifically what the road test entails? If you also have any contact numbers or e-mail addresses for the persons who administer the road tests, that would be greatly appreciated.  There is very little information on the DC DMV website concerning motorcycle licensing, and it seems impossible to get a live person with enough knowledge to answer my questions....How long does it take, in general?  Is the written test  specifically directed towards motorcycles, or is it the same as the driver's license test?  Do they allow you to practice on the road test course before you take the test?
>
> Any and all help w/this would be great.  Thanks!
>
> Nina


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 15:01:14 2002
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Subject: Chain and sprocket
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Always change out your sprockets when changing out your chain.  By only
changing out the chain or the sprockets you are going to cause premature
wear on the opposing component.  

Hard riding accelerates chain and sprocket wear. 

G

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 15:05:52 2002
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Subject: Re: Licensing requirements in DC
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Pelletier, Nina" <Nina.Pelletier@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: Licensing requirements in DC


> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm new to the list and relatively new to motorcycling.  I just
successfully completed the MSF course in Virginia.  Does anyone know whether
the DC DMV accepts the MSF course certification card in lieu of the road
test?

Paul:

Welcome to the list.  MSF bypass in DC?  In a word, no.  In DC you must take
the riding test.  A good thing to take MSF anyway though.  I teach MSF in
VA.  Congrats on passing.

Nina:

If not, could someone please tell me specifically what the road test
entails? If you also have any contact numbers or e-mail addresses for the
persons who administer the road tests, that would be greatly appreciated.

Paul:

They will give you the "road test" number to call when you receive your
learner's permit.  When I took it you had to do a quick stop, a figure-eight
and some slow turns, including turning from a stop.  It's all in the parking
lot, not the "road."  The manuevers should be familiar to you from the MSF
BRC.  It's easier than the MSF skills test.

Nina:

There is very little information on the DC DMV website concerning motorcycle
licensing, and it seems impossible to get a live person with enough
knowledge to answer my questions....How long does it take, in general?

Paul:

Yes, the web site stinks and in general the people on the phone are clueless
about anything moto-related.  It takes longer for the DMV test administrator
(the guy who gave me mine had probably never sat on a bike, much less ridden
one) to fill out the forms.  Figure on spending an hour there and DON'T be
late for your appointment.  Make sure they put the correct endorsement on
your new license, since they give you the new one on the spot.  Also, if you
go by the letter of the law, you need "supervision" to ride on a learner's
permit.  That said, I rode my bike to the road test place, solo and no one
hassled me.

Nina:

Is the written test  specifically directed towards motorcycles, or is it the
same as the driver's license test?

Paul:

No, a different test and you take it when you get your permit.  You must
have a valid permit when you take the riding test.  Actually some of the
questions are lifted from the "regular" test (DC traffic laws mostly, like
the speed limit in an alley, 15 mph, BTW) with some MC-specific stuff thrown
in.  Peruse the study guide first and answer them accordingly to what's in
the book.  Hint:  the "correct" answers may not align with what you learned
at MSF!

Nina:

Do they allow you to practice on the road test course before you take the
test?

Paul:

No.
>
> Any and all help w/this would be great.  Thanks!
>
> Nina

Hope that helps,

Paul in DC
95 VFR - 86 VF500F
>


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 15:12:09 2002
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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 15:11:21 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain and sprocket
To: "Bruhl, George LT" <GBruhl@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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"Bruhl, George LT" wrote:
> 
> Always change out your sprockets when changing out your chain.  By only
> changing out the chain or the sprockets you are going to cause premature
> wear on the opposing component.

Define "premature wear" on items that only last 20,000 to 30,000 miles
when you clean, adjust, burp, and feed them religiously.    :)

Hork
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 15:31:00 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 12:30:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Chain and sprocket
To: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Define "premature wear" on items that only last
> 20,000 to 30,000 miles
> when you clean, adjust, burp, and feed them
> religiously.    :)

That would be the JCWhitney $20 chain that wore out in
a weekend.  Of course it did have to put up with the
stump pulling torque of the John Deere Ninja 250.

It's just a normal maintenance item, like the tires
and engine.  I've even seen shaft drive splines wear
out after a while (and those are more expensive than
chain/sprocket sets.)

Leon.




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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From: "Lantech (DCOP)" <lantech.cwd@XXXXXX>
To: "'Dc-Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'Nina.Pelletier@XXXXXX'" <Nina.Pelletier@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Licensing requirements in DC
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:05:53 -0400 
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>>Do they allow you to practice on the road test course before you take the
test?

If you go to one of the MD MVA's during their closed-hours you can walk (or
ride) the course.  Even if you are taking the test in DC, the MD test is
supposed to be one of the toughest in the country.  So if you are
comfortable on the MD course you will be fine for the DC test. The pavement
is marked for the course, which is: low-speed maneuver (ride a really long
straight line in a box a couple of feet wide, as slow as you can),
turnabout, couple of stop signs, and a panic stop from 2nd gear.

Some of the MVA's lock their gates at night/weekends so there's no access to
the parking lot but I had no problem (many years ago) getting on the parking
lot in Glen Burnie.

Good luck,

Patti

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 17:57:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:57:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Harley for Sale (Not Mine)
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: dcuster42@XXXXXX
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Please respond to Dave, as this is not mine.  

1996 Harley Davidson Sportster 1200

1996 1200 Sportster, 17K miles, HIGHLY customized.
2-tone Silver/Black, lace wheels, shield, saddlebags,
custom: pipes, air cleaner, battery cover, primary
case cover, belt cover, tail light cover, back rest,
grips, pegs, mirrors, more. 

Asking: $8,500 

Location: Northern Virginia 

Photos and full customization list available via email
upon request to dcuster42@XXXXXX


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 18:45:19 2002
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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 18:45:48 -0700
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Stephen Harris <harris@XXXXXX>
Subject: Team Charm in Bayou-La-Batry
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A former DC Cycles lister Collin Fagan sighting.

Read about it at;
http://www.his.com/~harris/news.htm

Next event is:
http://www.his.com/~harris/sched.htm

Enjoy!

Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?
Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm

From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 21:21:34 2002
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Reply-To: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
From: "Michael Jordan" <mjordan812@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <3.0.32.20020408184546.015b662c@his.com>
Subject: Re: Team Charm in Bayou-La-Batry
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:21:29 -0400
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Bayou la  Batre

Made my first parachute jump there in '73

Talk about the middle of nowhere...

Michael J


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Harris" <harris@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 21:45
Subject: Team Charm in Bayou-La-Batry


> 
> A former DC Cycles lister Collin Fagan sighting.
> 
> Read about it at;
> http://www.his.com/~harris/news.htm
> 
> Next event is:
> http://www.his.com/~harris/sched.htm
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?
> Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 22:28:19 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: newbie training
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 22:27:55 -0400
Message-ID: <s3k4bu04ndt4venc2ggnav9tk7vra0ruvv@4ax.com>
References: <20020408175626.33846.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com> <20020408182018.52203.qmail@web14610.mail.yahoo.com>
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Find the next day that opens up to new class registration.. set a
phone on autodial to get through.. then register by phone. If that day
isn't successful, count 29 days, 30 days, and 31 days from that point
and try to re-register by phone. The point of waiting those days is
some of the students will have failed to pay and a seat will open up.

Oh yea what is the amount of days to pay? 10 ?  maybe call back in 10
days instead of 30.

Danny


On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:20:18 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

|>would any of the moto-trainers on this list be willing to
|>speak with a neighbor of mine about the various options for
|>newbie training (i.e., how to get a motorcycle permit).
|>
|>he's in maryland and finding it difficult to determine his
|>options for private training and eventual certification.
|>
|>i'd love to forward him the email address of someone with
|>knowledge on these issues.....


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 22:28:44 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: newbie training
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 22:28:26 -0400
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Oh yea and if he hasnt' ridden a bike in a while, he should ride one
to get refamiliarized with his balance.

On Mon, 8 Apr 2002 11:20:18 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

|>would any of the moto-trainers on this list be willing to
|>speak with a neighbor of mine about the various options for
|>newbie training (i.e., how to get a motorcycle permit).
|>
|>he's in maryland and finding it difficult to determine his
|>options for private training and eventual certification.
|>
|>i'd love to forward him the email address of someone with
|>knowledge on these issues.....


From dc-cycles-request Mon Apr  8 23:50:12 2002
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Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 23:40:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Licensing requirements in DC
To: pawilson@XXXXXX
Cc: nina.pelletier@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
References: <"CIVEX10-020408183549Z-20377*/PRMD=USDOJ/ADMD=>
 </C=US/"@MHS>
 <006f01c1df30$7df7ca60$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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A couple of additional comments:
>
>
>Nina:
>
>If not, could someone please tell me specifically what the road test
>entails? If you also have any contact numbers or e-mail addresses for the
>persons who administer the road tests, that would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Paul:
>
>They will give you the "road test" number to call when you receive your
>learner's permit.  When I took it you had to do a quick stop, a
>figure-eight
>and some slow turns, including turning from a stop.  It's all in the
>parking
>lot, not the "road."  The manuevers should be familiar to you from the MSF
>BRC.  It's easier than the MSF skills test.



This was the deal at the Brentwood test site.  However they either have
moved, or will shortly move, to southeast dc.  There, part or all of the
test will be on the road, due to lack of space and/or foresight.


Back to Brentwood (and the earlier downtown site): They had a little
trick.  At one point on the course there is a stop sign followed, a few
feet later, by an intersection. You might think that the stop sign refers
to the intersection, but no. You have to stop AT the stop sign AND again
at the intersection. Otherwise you fail, unless the examiner is in a good
mood.

These are the same examiners who would find any possible excuse to
disqualify your vehicle and then direct you toward their pals nearby who
would be happy to rent you an approved car---for a small fee---for the
test.  There was an expose of this in the Post 2 or 3 years ago, so they
may have moved on to other shakedowns.

>
>
>Nina:
>
>There is very little information on the DC DMV website concerning
>motorcycle
>licensing, and it seems impossible to get a live person with enough
>knowledge to answer my questions....How long does it take, in general?
>
>Paul:
>
>Yes, the web site stinks and in general the people on the phone are
>clueless
[snip]
> Also, if you
>go by the letter of the law, you need "supervision" to ride on a learner's
>permit.  That said, I rode my bike to the road test place, solo and no one
>hassled me.


I wouldn't count on it. When I took someone to Brentwood they did check
that he had not ridden in by himself. Combining malevolence, greed,
incompetence, and petty bureaucratic power-tripping leads to unpredictable
results.



--garcia

"We're lost, but we're making good time."
>
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 07:32:17 2002
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Message-ID: <3CB2D0FA.42351B7@boo.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 07:31:06 -0400
From: Jay Goddard <redbelly@XXXXXX>
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I am posting this for a friend.

ZX11c 1990 same owner 13 years only 2385 miles(not a typo!) This bike
has
been garage kept and never seen rain. Must see to really appreciate the
superb condition this machine is in.  There are a couple of very minor
scratches on the left side where it slowly dropped on its side at zero
mph.
This SUPERBIKE is ready to ride anywhere you want to.  A chance to own a

large chunk of motorcycle history. 1990 Cycle mag with ZX11 roadtest and
the
factory shop manual is included. $5200 obo. Email me for pictures.
cbxturbo@XXXXXX John, Wash DC 202-966-0889

Thanks!!
Jay



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 08:22:26 2002
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From: "Todd Peer" <toddbpeer@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <200204082300.g38N06G18174@dirty.meretrix.com>
Subject: Chain and sprocket
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 22:43:19 -0400
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From: "Bruhl, George LT"

Always change out your sprockets when changing out your chain.  By only
changing out the chain or the sprockets you are going to cause premature
wear on the opposing component.

Hard riding accelerates chain and sprocket wear.

G
----------------------------------------------------------------

At the risk of the Horkster giving me the shaft.... ;-)

Changing all components at the same time is the generally accepted norm for
the reason you offer.

However, I have a drive and driven sprocket I replaced on my '98 VTR that
would go a long way, substantially, to making both of your positions die a
very fast death.  Ask anyone who rides with me regularly (a big fat dude on
a torque-monster) and take a look at my used (23,000 miles) sprockets.  Held
next to the brand new ones, there is very little indication that they are
worn.

I was pissed that I blew the $$'s once I had everything off and inspected.
Of course this lack of wear isn't typical.  I submit that careful chain
maintenance (cleaning regularly and keeping it oily) is key.  The adjuster
indicators said that the chain was still in the good range but I knew it was
stretched in a few areas and definitely (slightly) kinked at one link, thus
the reason for the purchase at all.  As always, YMMV.

Todd (Springfield, VA)


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 09:14:59 2002
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From: LakeSueE@XXXXXX
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Subject: Licensing in DC
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When is the latest that someone has actually taken the DC Moto test?  I took it in July 2001 and it was on the road next to the DMV testing site and I had to do 2 stops (the guy yelled at me because I thought they were quick stops and he said I was "too jerky when I came to a stop") and 2 figure eights (the guy again yelled at me because I was "too shaky") but I passed and then got yelled at by the lady taking photos because I blinked.  Anyone take it after July 2001?

sue

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 09:22:52 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:21:58 -0400
To: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
From: Troutman <mike@XXXXXX>
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At 07:31 AM 4/9/2002, Jay Goddard wrote:
>same owner 13 years only 2385 miles(not a typo!) This bike
>has
>been garage kept and never seen rain. Must see to really appreciate the
>superb condition this machine is in.

Such as the thick layer of lacquer in the carbs and dry rotting tires ;-)

So sad to see a bike that old with only break-in miles on it.  Why sell it now?



___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 09:38:58 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <LakeSueE@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <31214C72.18BB6274.007800B3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Licensing in DC
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:39:39 -0400
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I took it in Dec. 1999 at the late Brentwood "facility", actually a couple
of trailers next to a parking lot, now the site of a soon to be Home Depot
and K-Mart.  My examiner was pretty laid back.

Sue, I see the customer is still king at the DC DMV.  :)

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: <LakeSueE@XXXXXX>

> When is the latest that someone has actually taken the DC Moto test?  I
took it in July 2001 and it was on the road next to the DMV testing site and
I had to do 2 stops (the guy yelled at me because I thought they were quick
stops and he said I was "too jerky when I came to a stop") and 2 figure
eights (the guy again yelled at me because I was "too shaky") but I passed
and then got yelled at by the lady taking photos because I blinked.  Anyone
take it after July 2001?
>
> sue
>


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 09:44:54 2002
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From: "Ledford, Calvin" <cledford@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
Subject: Lower chain guard removal question...
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:44:47 -0400 
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				Anyone have any suggestions on removing the
lower chain guard from a 2000 VFR?  I want to install the aluminum upper,
and do away with the crappy looking black plastic lower - but the lower
looks to be hard to remove.  It appears to have a single recessed hex head
bolt holding it on to the swing arm, built the screw is right in line with
the chain.  I'm not even sure if loosening the chain all of the way if it
will allow enough slack to work a socket end extension in to get at the
bolt.

				Thanks for any suggestions.  On favor to ask
please - if you reply please CC me at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest
member.

				-Calvin Ledford
				'00VFR800

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 09:55:44 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Special bike for sale  

Mike points out -

>same owner 13 years only 2385 miles(not a typo!) 

So sad to see a bike that old with only break-in miles on it.  Why 
sell it now?

  <DJY>  I agree.  That poor bike has probably been cooped up in a 
lonely garage, stuffed full of house knick knacks, and only let out a 
couple of times per year.  We should do something for this poor, 
mistreated steed...

I'll be happy to take it off his hands to prevent further abuse !
;-)

Dave Yates
President & CEO 
ZX11 Rescue League




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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 10:13:09 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 10:12:16 -0400
From: Robert Verde <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Subject: Non-Moto: Car sale advice
To: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Reply-to: c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX
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I would like to tap the list wisdom for tips on selling a car in the NoVa area.

We picked up a new Dakota last evening (with trailer tow package so we can haul
the bikes, obligatory moto content!) and we were not very happy with the
trade-in allowance that the dealer offered, so now we have a truck, a car, and
two bikes; way too many vehicles.

The car is a 2000 Plymouth Neon LX with 45K miles, and bald tires.  Otherwise in
good shape, could use some new front floor mats perhaps.  We still owe a bit
over 7K on the loan, the dealer offered 4K.  So, we kept the car.  I had checked
some sources and even deducting a grand for a new set of tires, the car should
be conservatively worth 5.5-6K.

So, I'll put new tires on the car, maybe spring for the 17" rim-and-tire combo
we had priced earlier (the car has 16" on it now) and put it up for sale.  In
addition to the usual places to advertise, like the Washington Post, the Car
Trader (?), and maybe the local papers; are there any other options I should
consider?  One co-worker suggested Carmax, but I don't know anything about them.

Any replies appreciated, and please reply directly, as I read the list in digest
mode.

Thanks!

Robert Verde



Robert Verde
WorldCom Advisory Engineer
DID:703-449-3544
E-mail: c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 10:25:14 2002
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> We picked up a new Dakota last evening (with trailer tow package so we can 
> haul
> the bikes, obligatory moto content!) and we were not very happy with the
> trade-in allowance that the dealer offered, so now we have a truck, a car, 
> and
> two bikes; way too many vehicles.


Take it down to Carmax.  They will go over it and probably offer about 5% 
below blue book.  But that seems to be better than most car dealerships are 
offering right now.  They don't want used cars given the incentives to sell 
new ones right now.  (Makes sellign used ones more difficult.)

Keener

--part1_96.24adb4aa.29e453ab_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">We picked up a new Dakota last evening (with trailer tow package so we can haul<BR>
the bikes, obligatory moto content!) and we were not very happy with the<BR>
trade-in allowance that the dealer offered, so now we have a truck, a car, and<BR>
two bikes; way too many vehicles.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Take it down to Carmax.&nbsp; They will go over it and probably offer about 5% below blue book.&nbsp; But that seems to be better than most car dealerships are offering right now.&nbsp; They don't want used cars given the incentives to sell new ones right now.&nbsp; (Makes sellign used ones more difficult.)<BR>
<BR>
Keener</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 10:25:49 2002
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From: "JONATHAN DAVIS" <JONATHAN.DAVIS@XXXXXX>
To: <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>, <cledford@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Lower chain guard removal question...
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I can't remember how my '98's lower c-g was attached to the swingarm,
but I am 100% certain that I did not have to loosen the chain to remove
it.   If it was as tight a fit as you describe, I probably used a 1/4"
drive socket.  

j.davis

>>> "Ledford, Calvin" <cledford@XXXXXX> 04/09/02 08:44AM >>>
Anyone have any suggestions on removing the lower chain guard from a
2000 VFR?  I want to install the aluminum upper, and do away with the
crappy looking black plastic lower - but the lower looks to be hard to
remove.  It appears to have a single recessed hex head bolt holding it
on to the swing arm, built the screw is right in line with the chain. 
I'm not even sure if loosening the chain all of the way if it will allow
enough slack to work a socket end extension in to get at the bolt.

Thanks for any suggestions.  On favor to ask please - if you reply
please CC me at cledford@XXXXXX as I am a digest member.

-Calvin Ledford
'00VFR800
------------------------------------------------------------------
The VF/VFR mailing list--see http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr-list/ 
for subscribe/unsubscribe, policy and archive information.

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 10:35:10 2002
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From: "Keiser, Rudy" <HARRY.R.KEISER.II@XXXXXX>
To: "'c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX'" <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Non-Moto: Car sale advice
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We used CarMax to sell my wife's '89 Prelude a while back and would
recommend you check them out.

Go there at some off-time (not on Saturday!) and tell them you are
interested in selling the car.  They will look it over for 10 minutes and
then give you a written offer which is good for 7 days.  To make the offer
look better they show a number and in the footnotes say that there is a $149
processing fee.  Even so, it was more than what the new car dealer was
offering in trade ($2250 vs. $1300).

There is no obligation or cost to have them look at it.

Good luck.


Rudy Keiser 
 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Robert Verde [mailto:c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:12 AM
To:	DC Cycles (E-mail)
Subject:	Non-Moto: Car sale advice

I would like to tap the list wisdom for tips on selling a car in the NoVa
area.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 12:14:35 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:13:48 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Special bike for sale
To: Jay Goddard <redbelly@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Jay Goddard wrote:
> 
> I am posting this for a friend.
> 
> ZX11c 1990 same owner 13 years only 2385 miles(not a typo!) This bike
> has been garage kept and never seen rain.

Never seen much daylight, either, from the sounds of it.  :)

Horkster

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 15:17:33 2002
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From: "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
Subject: Perforated Jackets
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 12:15:35 -0700 
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I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe
Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis Kirk
catalog.  I appears to be similar to the Phoenix in using "poly steel mesh",
but adds leather perforated reinforcements.  I've seen the Phoenix jacket
and don't really like the way it just seems to "hang" on you.  It seems
really loose and baggy.  Just from the picture in the catalog, can't really
tell how the Reactor jacket might be different from the Phoenix.  Any one
seen one of these Reactor jackets anywhere?  If so, what's your opinion?  

Steve
97 VFR
Warrenton, VA


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 15:35:48 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "Meredith, Steve \(Contr\)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Perforated Jackets
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:34:50 -0400
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I can only speak for the Phoenix fit on myself...it is anything but baggy.
I don't think the Armor will move around much the way that the jacket straps
down on your arms and cinches around the waist.  I'll send you a pic
off-list, but it fits comfortably tight through the chest and midsection (an
oddity for me).  The Reactor looks identical with the exception of the perf
leather on the shoulders/arms/back, and I expect it has and identical fit.

That said, and FWIW, I don't expect the Phoenix jacket to last beyond one
crash...I'm just counting on it to work once.

Also, I prolly woulda bought a Reactor instead if I knew about them/if they
existed last summer.

--jon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meredith, Steve wrote:
> I've seen the Phoenix jacket
> and don't really like the way it just seems to "hang" on you.  It seems
> really loose and baggy.  Just from the picture in the catalog,
> can't really
> tell how the Reactor jacket might be different from the Phoenix.  Any one
> seen one of these Reactor jackets anywhere?  If so, what's your opinion?
>
> Steve
> 97 VFR
> Warrenton, VA
>


#################################################################
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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 15:51:43 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:51:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
From: Tab <cbr929rdr@XXXXXX>
To: "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'" <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
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**The local deal has both types in stock when I stopped by last week.  They
do look like they would be a bit baggy, but my main concern is safety.  Just
looking at them I wonder if they would actually work in a crash.  The
material just feels like it would rip right apart in a wreck.  I'm still
partial to leather.  I have a joe rocket leather jacket that has padding and
the entire jacket is perforated.  I'd rather be a degree or two warmer in
the leather than "try out" the other type of jacket.

Tab
'01 Ducati 996
'01 CBR929
'02 Fat Boy
San Diego


On 4/9/02 12:15, "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
wrote:

> I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe
> Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis Kirk
> catalog.
> Steve
> 97 VFR
> Warrenton, VA


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:03:31 2002
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Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: Tab <cbr929rdr@XXXXXX>,
   "Meredith, Steve \(Contr\)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
In-Reply-To: <B8D89448.DB93%cbr929rdr@cox.net>
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JR claims that the jacket is as robust as Cordura 500 grade material. I
too wonder about all those seams and stiches holding up but they (JR)
have a dozen examples of crashed garments (Phoenix type) and they've
held up great. According to them at least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:07:34 2002
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From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
To: <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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Steve,

If you want a High quality perforated jacket, check out BMW's air flow suit.

It's expensive but very well made and offers real protection, great cooling too.

George Cole
01 FZ1



>>> "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX> 04/09/02 03:15PM >>>
I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe
Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis Kirk
catalog.  I appears to be similar to the Phoenix in using "poly steel mesh",
but adds leather perforated reinforcements.  I've seen the Phoenix jacket
and don't really like the way it just seems to "hang" on you.  It seems
really loose and baggy.  Just from the picture in the catalog, can't really
tell how the Reactor jacket might be different from the Phoenix.  Any one
seen one of these Reactor jackets anywhere?  If so, what's your opinion?  

Steve
97 VFR
Warrenton, VA



From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:12:56 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 15:12:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: Fish Flowers <fish@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
In-Reply-To: <20020409200328.9029.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>
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While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
mostly at the unperforated stuff?

Or will I simply boil come summer?

Fish.


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:15:36 2002
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Reply-To: <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
From: "Jon Strang" <jmstrang@XXXXXX>
To: "DC Cycles" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Perforated Jackets
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:14:39 -0400
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http://www.motorcyclegearreview.com/reviews.php?prodID=404

mixed results; some guys did fine, a few others wore through the jacket.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: matthew patton [mailto:pattonme@XXXXXX]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 4:03 PM
> To: Tab; Meredith, Steve (Contr); 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'
> Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
> 
> 
> JR claims that the jacket is as robust as Cordura 500 grade material. I
> too wonder about all those seams and stiches holding up but they (JR)
> have a dozen examples of crashed garments (Phoenix type) and they've
> held up great. According to them at least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> 

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:24:42 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 16:24:14 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: Tab <cbr929rdr@XXXXXX>,
   "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>,
   "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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matthew patton wrote:
> 
> JR claims that the jacket is as robust as Cordura 500 grade material. I
> too wonder about all those seams and stiches holding up but they (JR)
> have a dozen examples of crashed garments (Phoenix type) and they've
> held up great. According to them at least.

Also remember that there's shoulder, back, and elbow armor
in the Phoenix jackets.  It might not hold up to a long slide,
(which are comparitively rare on the street, I think "short-slide,
whack" is more likely) but for $89-$139 per jacket, it seems to be 
a reasonable price for decent "one-crash" protection.

Even Aerostich's have to get sent back to the factory on 
occasion for repair after a get-off.  Think of the Phoenix
as more disposable.

Ever hear reports of riders suffering road rash even when
wearing leathers?  The leather is still intact, but the 
friction on the inside of the garment on impact is enough to 
abrade away skin.  At least you don't end up with gravel in
the wound...  :)

Hork
-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:24:46 2002
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From: "Chris Pitts" <S2CPitts@XXXXXX>
To: "'Tab'" <cbr929rdr@XXXXXX>,
   "'Meredith, Steve \(Contr\)'" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
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Ive tried one in a crash...  They work great!!!
Chris
01 Erion 929


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vfr@XXXXXX [mailto:owner-vfr@XXXXXX] On Behalf Of
Tab
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:51 PM
To: Meredith, Steve (Contr); 'dc-cycles@XXXXXX';
'vfr-digest@XXXXXX'
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets


**The local deal has both types in stock when I stopped by last week.
They do look like they would be a bit baggy, but my main concern is
safety.  Just looking at them I wonder if they would actually work in a
crash.  The material just feels like it would rip right apart in a
wreck.  I'm still partial to leather.  I have a joe rocket leather
jacket that has padding and the entire jacket is perforated.  I'd rather
be a degree or two warmer in the leather than "try out" the other type
of jacket.

Tab
'01 Ducati 996
'01 CBR929
'02 Fat Boy
San Diego


On 4/9/02 12:15, "Meredith, Steve (Contr)"
<SMeredith@XXXXXX>
wrote:

> I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe

> Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis

> Kirk catalog. Steve
> 97 VFR
> Warrenton, VA


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:31:16 2002
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Perfed leather is just fine.  As long as it's a quality suit from a reputable manufacturer or custom suit maker.  At a standstill (especially in traffic), you'll still boil.  But it's definitely cooler when moving.

Original Message:
-----------------

While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
mostly at the unperforated stuff?

Or will I simply boil come summer?

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:39:07 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 16:39:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0204091509590.18746-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
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On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:

> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
> 
> Or will I simply boil come summer?
> 

Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front.  Might not be
race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
be a solid jacket. 

--
Dan Brown 
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:41:04 2002
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What kind of crash?  And define worked "great."

I think Jon Strang's assessment that the Phoenix is a "one get-off" piece of equipment is probably right.  And certainly with the armor in it, is better than a t-shirt.  For a relatively low-speed, minimal slide get-off I would imagine that it would do OK.  But certainly the risk of road rash/abrasion by direct contact with the pavement is much higher than if wearing leathers.  But that's the tradeoff that you have to make in seeking greater airflow/cooling.

I'm actually considering getting a Phoenix jacket just to have something to wear to go to/from Java Shack and Bike Night and similar short trips.  Don't know how comfortable I'd feel about it's protective capabilities for "regular" riding.  Personally, I wouldn't use it for "real" riding on backroads twisties.

I doubt very seriously that it would've held up in my Deerhunter crash or even my lowside at the track.  But the Phoenix isn't a jacket you buy for the protection.  It's a jacket you buy for it's hot/warm weather riding attributes and it provides a modicum of protection.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Chris Pitts S2CPitts@XXXXXX
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 14:54:30 -0500
To: cbr929rdr@XXXXXX, SMeredith@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vfr-digest@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Perforated Jackets


Ive tried one in a crash...  They work great!!!

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From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:53:39 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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--- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Ever hear reports of riders suffering road rash even when
> wearing leathers?  The leather is still intact, but the 
> friction on the inside of the garment on impact is enough to 
> abrade away skin.  At least you don't end up with gravel in
> the wound...  :)

I have an 8 inch scar, surgery bills and the like to prove this. And
this was with a non-leather jacket to boot. The jacket sleeve was
completely and utterly intact (no holes) but highly abbraided but my
fore-arm was missing a lot of flesh, sinew and muscle.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 16:54:21 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>,
   DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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agreed.  the "avenger" is a model with this feature....


--- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the
> front.  Might not be
> race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you
> KNOW its going to
> be a solid jacket. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 17:07:36 2002
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Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 17:08:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:

> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
> To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>,
>     DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
> 
> agreed.  the "avenger" is a model with this feature....


First, Are you really Tom Gimer?  Isn't the real TG supposed to be more
arguementative? 

And, I've got one of the Night Avengers, actually, and /really/ like it. 
Not only does it have the vents, but also has 3M reflective stuff on the
back. 

> --- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the
> > front.  Might not be
> > race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you
> > KNOW its going to
> > be a solid jacket. 



--
Dan Brown 
brown@XXXXXX


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 17:21:23 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:20:51 -0400
From: Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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matthew patton wrote:
> 
> --- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Ever hear reports of riders suffering road rash even when
> > wearing leathers?  The leather is still intact, but the
> > friction on the inside of the garment on impact is enough to
> > abrade away skin.  At least you don't end up with gravel in
> > the wound...  :)
> 
> I have an 8 inch scar, surgery bills and the like to prove this. And
> this was with a non-leather jacket to boot. The jacket sleeve was
> completely and utterly intact (no holes) but highly abbraided but my
> fore-arm was missing a lot of flesh, sinew and muscle.

Crashing sucks, doesn't it?  Oh well, it sounds like you got a
cool scar out of the deal.  :)

Hork

-- 
Mandatory Second Line (Chatty Moron Trademark)

Dale Horstman - horkster@XXXXXX
Dale City, Virginia, USA, Earth 

'98 Kawasaki Concours - BugSlayer  
'99 Kawasaki Concours - Grape Nehi 
'82 Suzuki GS850G - work in progress

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 17:27:02 2002
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matthew patton wrote:

> --- Dale Horstman <horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > Ever hear reports of riders suffering road rash even when
> > wearing leathers?  The leather is still intact, but the
> > friction on the inside of the garment on impact is enough to
> > abrade away skin.  At least you don't end up with gravel in
> > the wound...  :)
>
> I have an 8 inch scar, surgery bills and the like to prove this. And
> this was with a non-leather jacket to boot. The jacket sleeve was
> completely and utterly intact (no holes) but highly abbraided but my
> fore-arm was missing a lot of flesh, sinew and muscle.
>

True - called impact abrasion.  My body's been scuffed under left intact
jeans and left intact leather.  I suspect layered clothes might reduce
the effect, but I'll be damned If I'm jumping off a moving bike to test
my theory.

Bill

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
&nbsp;
<P>matthew patton wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>--- Dale Horstman &lt;horkster@XXXXXX> wrote:
<BR>> Ever hear reports of riders suffering road rash even when
<BR>> wearing leathers?&nbsp; The leather is still intact, but the
<BR>> friction on the inside of the garment on impact is enough to
<BR>> abrade away skin.&nbsp; At least you don't end up with gravel in
<BR>> the wound...&nbsp; :)
<P>I have an 8 inch scar, surgery bills and the like to prove this. And
<BR>this was with a non-leather jacket to boot. The jacket sleeve was
<BR>completely and utterly intact (no holes) but highly abbraided but my
<BR>fore-arm was missing a lot of flesh, sinew and muscle.
<BR>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE>
<TT>True - called impact abrasion.&nbsp; My body's been scuffed under left
intact jeans and left intact leather.&nbsp; I suspect layered clothes might
reduce the effect, but I'll be damned If I'm jumping off a moving bike
to test my theory.</TT><TT></TT>
<P><TT>Bill</TT></HTML>

--------------4A571BB901BB97727C300CA2--


From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 17:31:08 2002
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Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:30:43 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: brown@XXXXXX ("Daniel H. Brown"),
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX (DC-Cycles)
Subject: Re: Re: Perforated Jackets
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I've got a w/r/b perfed AGV jacket that I love for summer riding.  Because it's mainly white, it's cooler to start of with.  The perfs just add to it.  It's also seen the pavement a couple times and has held up great.  I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon.  Just my .02.

Scooter

In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 M- 4:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> writes:

>On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
>
>> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
>> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
>> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
>> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
>> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
>> 
>> Or will I simply boil come summer?
>> 
>
>Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front. M- Might not be
>race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
>be a solid jacket. 
>
>--
>Dan Brown 
>brown@XXXXXX
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 17:50:29 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>,
   DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
> > From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
> > To: "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX>,
> >     DC-Cycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> > Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
> > 
> > agreed.  the "avenger" is a model with this feature....
> 
> 
> First, Are you really Tom Gimer?  Isn't the real TG
> supposed to be more arguementative? 

only when the other party to the discussion is WRONG




> And, I've got one of the Night Avengers, actually, and
> /really/ like it. 
> Not only does it have the vents, but also has 3M
> reflective stuff on the
> back. 

i absolutely love my avenger....  only thing i would change
is perhaps a snap for the collar (rather than velcro, which
is getting weak).

i washed mine recently for the first time in 3+ years. 
i've been told it looks good, but i feel rather naked
without the bugs.






> > --- "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the
> > > front.  Might not be
> > > race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson,
> you
> > > KNOW its going to
> > > be a solid jacket. 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 19:37:49 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
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Subject: Re: Chain and sprocket
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 19:37:42 -0400
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I'd like to say the chain is the single most item I worry about due to
failure, because it malfuntioning can (in my book) have the most
disasterous effects.  Any other likely failure can give you time to 
pull over and check things out. 

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 19:43:43 2002
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Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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 fish@XXXXXX writes:

>  I'm thinking about replacing my current
> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
> 

 I have the Vanson Cobra jacket. It has perforated vents but it also has an 
inside flap on each side you can close when the extra air isn't needed. The 
venting didn't make much difference behind the full windshield on my Concours 
but works very well on my ZX-9. And I've crashed twice in it (I gotta quit 
that) and it has held up very well.
 HTH,
Steve Broadstreet
ZX-9

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2> fish@XXXXXX writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> I'm thinking about replacing my current<BR>
faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at<BR>
Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look<BR>
mostly at the unperforated stuff?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
 I have the Vanson Cobra jacket. It has perforated vents but it also has an inside flap on each side you can close when the extra air isn't needed. The venting didn't make much difference behind the full windshield on my Concours but works very well on my ZX-9. And I've crashed twice in it (I gotta quit that) and it has held up very well.<BR>
 HTH,<BR>
Steve Broadstreet<BR>
ZX-9</FONT></HTML>

--part1_17.265abe34.29e4d69e_boundary--

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 21:36:37 2002
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Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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On Tuesday 09 April 2002 19:43, SBave@XXXXXX wrote:

Everyone I know races in perforated leathers... I personally don't think I 
could deal with the heat otherwise.

As for perf not being crash worthy... never had a problem and I've had some 
pretty high speed get-offs (80-100mph).

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Tue Apr  9 23:22:17 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 23:22:11 -0400
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I have that same color AGV jacket, and it is wonderful.   I want to
get some attatching perforated leather pants as well. 

I don't think the color plays much a role. I think i'd be just as
happy with a black fieldsheer jacket. Maybe even happier since the
white can look awful when dirty. (but designs do look better than
solids)

 I am interested in getting some mesh riding gear just for the doubley
hot days where i'm not riding "hard", and just going  to  get to a
destination and stop riding.

However I dont' trush joe rocket stitching.. I'll go with the
fieldsheer mesh version.  I also feel naked without some knee and shin
padding and protection.   I want to look into gettting some martial
arts under the garment padding... for my shins, knees, and hips, and
possibly  combine that with some jeans.  Having a sore hip sucks..
having a broken pelvis, well I don't want to know. 


Danny

On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:30:43 -0400, you wrote:

|>I've got a w/r/b perfed AGV jacket that I love for summer riding.  Because it's mainly white, it's cooler to start of with.  The perfs just add to it.  It's also seen the pavement a couple times and has held up great.  I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon.  Just my .02.
|>
|>Scooter
|>
|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 M-BM- 4:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> writes:
|>
|>>On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
|>>
|>>> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
|>>> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
|>>> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
|>>> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
|>>> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
|>>> 
|>>> Or will I simply boil come summer?
|>>> 
|>>
|>>Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front. M-BM- Might not be
|>>race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
|>>be a solid jacket. 
|>>
|>>--
|>>Dan Brown 
|>>brown@XXXXXX
|>>
|>>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 07:24:20 2002
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Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 07:14:32 -0400
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I've engaged in this sort of thinking before, too. "It's only a short ride."
"I won't be riding more than 35 mph."  "I won't be riding hard."  All
rationalizations for wearing less substantial gear.  And I do alter what I
wear for "around town" trips, so I'm not preaching here.  On the other hand,
if I'm blessed with the sort of clairvoyance so that I know exactly where
and how I'm going to crash, I should quit my day job, play the stock market
and make some real money.  Impact forces and abrasions can be quite severe
even from a "low-speed" crash and every crash is different.  It all depends.
Just take a look at the gear reviews on www.motorcyclegearreview.com.  All
sorts of results and outcome from the same gear.  I'm not sure what this all
adds up to.  I guess it's all about your own personal comfort level with
risk.  The important thing is accepting risk, and to do so you can't be in a
state of ignorance about the potential outcomes.

Paul in DC

----- Original Message -----
From: <daniel_ex250@XXXXXX>



 I am interested in getting some mesh riding gear just for the doubley
hot days where i'm not riding "hard", and just going  to  get to a
destination and stop riding.

....

Danny



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 08:26:18 2002
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From: "Dave Moquin" <davfrman@XXXXXX>
To: SMeredith@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX, vfr@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 08:25:12 -0400
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Steve,
I put my hands on a Reactor jacket last sunday at a swap meet, and I was not 
impressed. The leather is so thin it reminds me of the fashion leather 
available at stores like Wilson's in the mall.
Personally I have more confidence in the Phoenix. Given it's track record 
both with listers and others, I would chose the Phoenix if I were to buy one 
of these light weight jackets.
Personally, I'm saving for a Vanson pro-perf to use when the CSRX is too 
hot.

Dave Moquin
99 VFR 800


>I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe
>Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis >Any 
>one seen one of these Reactor jackets anywhere?  If so, what's >your 
>opinion?
>
>Steve
>97 VFR
>Warrenton, VA


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 08:32:55 2002
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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: "Meredith, Steve \(Contr\)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <99407664A0A7D511AD9900508BB0FB03437D35@XCGVA030>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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I have a Joe Rocket Sonic, and I love it!

Gary


----- Original Message -----
From: "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; <vfr-digest@XXXXXX>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: Perforated Jackets


> I'm in the market for a perforated riding jacket for this summer.  Joe
> Rocket has a new jacket called the Reactor I saw in the current Dennis
Kirk
> catalog.  I appears to be similar to the Phoenix in using "poly steel
mesh",
> but adds leather perforated reinforcements.  I've seen the Phoenix jacket
> and don't really like the way it just seems to "hang" on you.  It seems
> really loose and baggy.  Just from the picture in the catalog, can't
really
> tell how the Reactor jacket might be different from the Phoenix.  Any one
> seen one of these Reactor jackets anywhere?  If so, what's your opinion?
>
> Steve
> 97 VFR
> Warrenton, VA
>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 08:56:26 2002
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From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: When is a stop really a stop?
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I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute. 
Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
means that your foot or feet must touch the ground? 
Thanks

Mark

=====


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:17:41 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Re:  When is a stop really a stop?  

Kitchell Questions -

I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute. 
Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
means that your foot or feet must touch the ground? 

<DJY>  That is a very GFQ...  I only found 3 relevant statutes in VA, 
the most significant did not address what constituted a 'stop' as 
such.  
<sigh>  
  I email corresponded with another biker that was given $hit by NIH 
campus cops for a stop, in which he did not put his feet down, but 
rather paused motionless, balancing the bike, & slowly applying 
throttle.  My musings with campus cops at the time indicated that 'if 
forward motion of the vehicle ceases, that's a stop'...  of course, 
that opinion is only good for that particular cop...  

  You mention that they are 4 way stops.  Without getting into a 
political discussion about traffic enraging, typically, 4 ways are 
put in as a secondary speed control device.  This is a violation of 
the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Device standard, as an 
engineering study does not support the placement of the traffic 
control device in that instance (the stop sign(s) of the non primary 
street).  With a good lawyer, a ticket for failure to stop could be 
beaten.  
  If it's in VA, you can find the number to the FFX co.  department 
that handles lights, signs etc... on WTOP's website (or the post)...  
They're great if you report a non functional light, or one that's mis 
timed, but if you question placement, they will send goons in black 
sedans out to intimidate you :-)  
  Since the slow ride is a tactic that all of us local to DC need to 
learn to survive in traffic around here, I'd be willing to bet that 
most of us subscribed could effect a 'balanced, ceased motion' 
response to a stop sign with no feet down that would pass muster of 
most traffic cops...  

  FWIW, I routinely do 'no feet down' stops at 4 way stop signs, 
especially if there is a line of cars each way.  If you aren't ready 
to go through the intersection when your turn comes, somebody else 
will take it :-|  

HTH
Dave                 




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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:18:11 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 06:18:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020410125621.74803.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute. 
> Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
> means that your foot or feet must touch the ground? 
> Thanks
> 
> Mark

Is this all in DC?  (I remember you moved recently)  The reason I ask is that
some states (Districts) have different definitions.  I heard one story (Urban
Legend?  True?  Who knows) of people getting a warning in MD for not putting
both feet down at a stop.  

Louis

=====
"Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
Fairfax, VA
Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/

Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:19:48 2002
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If you don't know, you shouldn't have a driver's license or be driving.  What a moron.  You are a total menace to society! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------

I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute. 
Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
means that your foot or feet must touch the ground?

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:23:20 2002
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From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Its DC.  If I see a popo, the feet go down of course.


--- "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my
> commute. 
> > Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a
> stop
> > means that your foot or feet must touch the
> ground? 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Mark
> 
> Is this all in DC?  (I remember you moved recently) 
> The reason I ask is that
> some states (Districts) have different definitions. 
> I heard one story (Urban
> Legend?  True?  Who knows) of people getting a
> warning in MD for not putting
> both feet down at a stop.  
> 
> Louis
> 
> =====
> "Admiral" Louis Caplan   1998 Kawasaki Concours
> Fairfax, VA
> Co-Planner, MD20-20 http://www.masondixon20-20.org/
> 
> Home Page:
> http://www.geocities.com/nighthawk700/cycle.htm
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


=====


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:30:42 2002
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Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
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Mark, it sounds like your question is "if I perform a 'rolling stop' and
there's no cop to see it, is it still illegal"?  :)  Complete (if short)
stops are possible with your feet on the pegs.  The most important thing
about 4-way stops is not getting T-boned by cross traffic.  I don't know
what DC's traffic laws say on the subject.  They're not on-line.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>

> I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute.
> Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
> means that your foot or feet must touch the ground?
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:32:48 2002
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From: "Razz Man" <razzsounds@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:32:41 -0400
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If I recall correctly, stoping without taking your feet off the pegs if a 
requirement of the Va. skills test.

Razz


>
>Kitchell Questions -
>
>I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute.
>Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
>means that your foot or feet must touch the ground?
>
><DJY>  That is a very GFQ...  I only found 3 relevant statutes in VA,
>the most significant did not address what constituted a 'stop' as
>such.
><sigh>
>   I email corresponded with another biker that was given $hit by NIH
>campus cops for a stop, in which he did not put his feet down, but
>rather paused motionless, balancing the bike, & slowly applying
>throttle.  My musings with campus cops at the time indicated that 'if
>forward motion of the vehicle ceases, that's a stop'...  of course,
>that opinion is only good for that particular cop...
>
>   You mention that they are 4 way stops.  Without getting into a
>political discussion about traffic enraging, typically, 4 ways are
>put in as a secondary speed control device.  This is a violation of
>the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Device standard, as an
>engineering study does not support the placement of the traffic
>control device in that instance (the stop sign(s) of the non primary
>street).  With a good lawyer, a ticket for failure to stop could be
>beaten.
>   If it's in VA, you can find the number to the FFX co.  department
>that handles lights, signs etc... on WTOP's website (or the post)...
>They're great if you report a non functional light, or one that's mis
>timed, but if you question placement, they will send goons in black
>sedans out to intimidate you :-)
>   Since the slow ride is a tactic that all of us local to DC need to
>learn to survive in traffic around here, I'd be willing to bet that
>most of us subscribed could effect a 'balanced, ceased motion'
>response to a stop sign with no feet down that would pass muster of
>most traffic cops...
>
>   FWIW, I routinely do 'no feet down' stops at 4 way stop signs,
>especially if there is a line of cars each way.  If you aren't ready
>to go through the intersection when your turn comes, somebody else
>will take it :-|
>
>HTH
>Dave
>
>
>
>
>--
>Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your email accounts!
>Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal
>


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From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
To: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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No, that is not what I am saying at all.  I can make a
complete stop (even hold it for a second) without
putting my feet down.  I am not talking about a
rolling stop, those are clearly illegal.


--- Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Mark, it sounds like your question is "if I perform
> a 'rolling stop' and
> there's no cop to see it, is it still illegal"?  :) 
> Complete (if short)
> stops are possible with your feet on the pegs.  The
> most important thing
> about 4-way stops is not getting T-boned by cross
> traffic.  I don't know
> what DC's traffic laws say on the subject.  They're
> not on-line.
> 
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
> 
> > I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my
> commute.
> > Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a
> stop
> > means that your foot or feet must touch the
> ground?
> > Thanks
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > =====
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
> 
> 


=====


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:37:14 2002
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   "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
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OK, I understand.  As long as it's a complete stop you should be in the
clear, although there are mis-informed people out there who think you can't
completely stop a motorcycle without putting your feet down.  Not putting a
foot down is not evidence that you failed to come to a complete stop.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>

> No, that is not what I am saying at all.  I can make a
> complete stop (even hold it for a second) without
> putting my feet down.  I am not talking about a
> rolling stop, those are clearly illegal.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 09:46:16 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: Perforated Jackets
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That's exactly the point.  The whole point behind the design of the Phoenix jacket is ventilation and comfort in hot weather riding.  While not an afterthought, protection is secondary to comfort.  OTOH, a quality perfed leather jacket is designed primarily with protection in mind and then making it as comfortable as possible.  Those are the two ends of the spectrum.  And every rider needs to assess the risk (and their tolerance level), make a choice, and then live with the potential consequences.

There does seem to be a common theme in the experiences of those who report crashing wearing a Phoenix.  The armor seems to do what armor is supposed to do, i.e., protect against impact.  But the jacket is "iffy" (at best) in protecting against abrasion in a slide.  And more times than not the jacket is a goner.

Original Message: <SNIP>
-----------------

sorts of results and outcome from the same gear.  I'm not sure what this all
adds up to.  I guess it's all about your own personal comfort level with
risk.  The important thing is accepting risk, and to do so you can't be in a
state of ignorance about the potential outcomes.

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From: "Gary Foreman" <fj1100@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020410125621.74803.qmail@web13802.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
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Good question.  I do it all the time on my TLR (I can completely stop the
wheel rotation then continue).  Not so easy on my Shadow Sabre with that
massive rake on the front-end.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Kitchell" <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 8:56 AM
Subject: When is a stop really a stop?


> I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute.
> Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
> means that your foot or feet must touch the ground?
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 10:12:06 2002
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From: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Overpass Rock Throwers
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Heads up from Ch4 news -- A number of reports of rocks being thrown from the
E Street overpass (near Kennedy Center).  Hmmm.  Baseball season stirring up
idle hands.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 -- Potholes below, rocks above.  Back to hibernation?
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 10:20:41 2002
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From: Peter Hartzler <pete@XXXXXX>
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And of course it's completely possible to put your foot down and NOT 
stop...


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 10:23:21 2002
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From: DamonJ@XXXXXX
To: mobacc@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Overpass Rock Throwers
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Great!  Now not only do I have to watch out for crazy cages, taxi cabs,
couriers, and pedestrians, but also rocks flying from above.  You gotta love
driving into DC.  Thanks for the heads up!

-----Original Message-----
From: mobacc [mailto:mobacc@XXXXXX] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:32 AM
To: DC-Cycles
Subject: Overpass Rock Throwers

Heads up from Ch4 news -- A number of reports of rocks being thrown from the
E Street overpass (near Kennedy Center).  Hmmm.  Baseball season stirring up
idle hands.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 -- Potholes below, rocks above.  Back to hibernation?
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 12:47:28 2002
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From: "Rob Keiser" <robkeiser@XXXXXX>
To: DC-Cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Overpass Rock Throwers
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:36:09 -0400
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Don't forget the red light, speeding cameras and potholes!

Rob
'98 VFR800


From: DamonJ@XXXXXX
To: mobacc@XXXXXX, DC-Cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Overpass Rock Throwers
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 10:23:24 -0400

Great!  Now not only do I have to watch out for crazy cages, taxi cabs,
couriers, and pedestrians, but also rocks flying from above.  You gotta love
driving into DC.  Thanks for the heads up!

-----Original Message-----
From: mobacc [mailto:mobacc@XXXXXX]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 9:32 AM
To: DC-Cycles
Subject: Overpass Rock Throwers

Heads up from Ch4 news -- A number of reports of rocks being thrown from the
E Street overpass (near Kennedy Center).  Hmmm.  Baseball season stirring up
idle hands.


Bill S. / DC
'99 VN750 -- Potholes below, rocks above.  Back to hibernation?
Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 12:49:53 2002
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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'cvkgpena@XXXXXX'" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   "'fish@XXXXXX'" <fish@XXXXXX>
Subject: cooler when moving
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:53:34 -0400
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On Perforated Jackets, PeM-qa posted: 
"Perfed leather is just fine.  <snip>  At a standstill (especially in
traffic), you'll still boil.  But it's definitely cooler when moving." 

 . . . cooler when moving . . . arr, thar's the rub eh mahy-tee. 

Project n+1 is hooking up a $4 Wally Mart air mattress pump for those slow
humid treks home in the summer. 
I'll plug it in the grip heater outlet (switch is handily mounted on the
left mirror post) 
Bilge tubing from Homey D slides into my 'Stich sleeves with ease. 
Issue is whether or how to cool the air.  

Carl in Bethesda

Will a "Big Gulp" absorb more heat than a Grape "Frostee"? 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:15:40 2002
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In a message dated 4/10/2002 9:11:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
markkitchell@XXXXXX writes:

> if the legal definition of a stop
>  means that your foot or feet must touch the ground? 

Hell I know guys that can stop a bike for hours without putting a foot down. 
I can (on a dirt bike) bump into something, back up, go forward, that is two 
stops with no foot down at all.
and no I do not know the legal definition... Would it apply to cages? That 
would be fun.

John.
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:21:59 2002
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From: Peter Hartzler <pete@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: cooler when moving
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Carl --

Consider using water as your heat exchange fluid -- it's MUCH better than
air at carrying heat.  Also, look into "Peltier junctions"  
(thermoelectric heat pumps) as a way to move heat out of the water.  The
other workable option, evaporative heat transfer, requires recharging the
water supply...

You wouldn't need to cover the whole body with the heat exchange surface,
just a spot or two where the blood supply is near the surface, e.g. around
the neck.

I suppose you could even strap the peltier junctions directly to you,
perhaps with a pad of water to avoid frostbite (no joke).

Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
implied!):

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2

Unfortunately it looks rather like an "Obedience Collar" such as were once
worn on Triskelion...

http://www.treasure-troves.com/startrek/TheGamestersOfTriskelion.html

-ph

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Custer, Carl wrote:

> Project n+1 is hooking up a $4 Wally Mart air mattress pump for those
> slow humid treks home in the summer.  I'll plug it in the grip heater
> outlet (switch is handily mounted on the left mirror post)  Bilge tubing
> from Homey D slides into my 'Stich sleeves with ease.  Issue is whether
> or how to cool the air.
> 
> Carl in Bethesda
> 
> Will a "Big Gulp" absorb more heat than a Grape "Frostee"? 
> 


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:32:30 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:31:45 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Perforated Jackets
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Actually, color plays a BIG part in how hot or cold you are.  Black absorbs heat and light.  White reflects both.  A solid black jacket will become hotter than a solid white jacket.  I've got the w/r/b perfed jacket and a set of w/r/b Teknic pants that match really well.  They're not perfed but, they work great anyway.  Had to have the zipper reversed so they could zip together.

In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:23:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

>I have that same color AGV jacket, and it is wonderful. M-  I want to
>get some attatching perforated leather pants as well.
>
>I don't think the color plays much a role. I think i'd be just as
>happy with a black fieldsheer jacket. Maybe even happier since the
>white can look awful when dirty. (but designs do look better than
>solids)
>
> I am interested in getting some mesh riding gear just for the doubley
>hot days where i'm not riding "hard", and just going M- to M- get to a
>destination and stop riding.
>
>However I dont' trush joe rocket stitching.. I'll go with the
>fieldsheer mesh version. M- I also feel naked without some knee and shin
>padding and protection. M-  I want to look into gettting some martial
>arts under the garment padding... for my shins, knees, and hips, and
>possibly M- combine that with some jeans. M- Having a sore hip sucks..
>having a broken pelvis, well I don't want to know.
>
>
>Danny
>
>On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:30:43 -0400, you wrote:
>
>|>I've got a w/r/b perfed AGV jacket that I love for summer riding. M- Because it's mainly white, it's cooler to start of with. M- The perfs just add to it. M- It's also seen the pavement a couple times and has held up great. M- I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon. M- Just my .02.
>|>
>|>Scooter
>|>
>|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 M- 4:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> writes:
>|>
>|>>On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
>|>>
>|>>> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
>|>>> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
>|>>> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
>|>>> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
>|>>> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
>|>>>
>|>>> Or will I simply boil come summer?
>|>>>
>|>>
>|>>Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front. M- Might not be
>|>>race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
>|>>be a solid jacket.
>|>>
>|>>--
>|>>Dan Brown
>|>>brown@XXXXXX
>|>>
>|>>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:32:53 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Peter Hartzler" <pete@XXXXXX>,
   "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0204101303440.27484-100000@zing.hartzler.home>
Subject: Re: cooler when moving
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:32:46 -0400
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Hmm, maybe I should try this...

the question is:  How comfortable is this with helmet?


----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hartzler" <pete@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: cooler when moving


> Carl --
>
> Consider using water as your heat exchange fluid -- it's MUCH better than
> air at carrying heat.  Also, look into "Peltier junctions"
> (thermoelectric heat pumps) as a way to move heat out of the water.  The
> other workable option, evaporative heat transfer, requires recharging the
> water supply...
>
> You wouldn't need to cover the whole body with the heat exchange surface,
> just a spot or two where the blood supply is near the surface, e.g. around
> the neck.
>
> I suppose you could even strap the peltier junctions directly to you,
> perhaps with a pad of water to avoid frostbite (no joke).
>
> Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
> course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
> implied!):
>
> http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2
>
> Unfortunately it looks rather like an "Obedience Collar" such as were once
> worn on Triskelion...
>
> http://www.treasure-troves.com/startrek/TheGamestersOfTriskelion.html
>
> -ph
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Custer, Carl wrote:
>
> > Project n+1 is hooking up a $4 Wally Mart air mattress pump for those
> > slow humid treks home in the summer.  I'll plug it in the grip heater
> > outlet (switch is handily mounted on the left mirror post)  Bilge tubing
> > from Homey D slides into my 'Stich sleeves with ease.  Issue is whether
> > or how to cool the air.
> >
> > Carl in Bethesda
> >
> > Will a "Big Gulp" absorb more heat than a Grape "Frostee"?
> >
>
>



#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################
#####
#####
#####
#################################################################
#################################################################
#################################################################

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:49:29 2002
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To: "'Peter Hartzler'" <pete@XXXXXX>,
   "'DCCycles'"
	 <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: cooler when moving
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	Peter proposed: 
	"Consider using water as your heat exchange fluid -- it's MUCH
better than
> air at carrying heat.  Also, look into "Peltier junctions"  
> (thermoelectric heat pumps) as a way to move heat out of the water.  The
> other workable option, evaporative heat transfer, requires recharging the
> water supply...
> You wouldn't need to cover the whole body with the heat exchange surface,
> just a spot or two where the blood supply is near the surface, e.g. around
> the neck." 
	[Custer, Carl]  
	I can personally testify about the effectiveness of a wet bandana on
the neck, the effectiveness of ambient air moving over the inside wrists,
and the "thrill" of donning a wet tee shirt in an air conditioned stop.  So
yes, I agree, a good cooling spot is where blood flows near the skin.  Also,
yes, you need to "recharge" the wet things every 60-100 miles.  I've also
heard of folks filling their 'Stich pockets with ice.   

> Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
> course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
> implied!):
> http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2
	[Custer, Carl]  
	Thanks, it looks kewl -- but -- being a cheep bar-steward, and
having already invested $4 in the air mattress pump and another $3 in the
bilge tubing I'll pursue my homage to Rube Goldberg. 
	The following URL shows the front of the bilge tubing (A piece of
screen blocks bugs.)  The other ends are loosely zip-tied to the grips for
easy insertion into the 'Stich sleeves.  Works great >30MPH but not stopped
-- ergo the mattress pump.  
	http://members.tripod.com/~v65_magna/sos_99/sat_lunch2.jpg 



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 13:55:03 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:55:10 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: genna@XXXXXX ("Genna Melamed"), pete@XXXXXX ("Peter Hartzler"),
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX ("'DCCycles'")
Cc: Carl.Custer@XXXXXX ("Custer, Carl")
Subject: Re: Re: cooler when moving
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One way to find out.  Ride bike to Sharper Image, ask to test out device, put on device, put on helmet.  Simple.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Wed, 10 Apr 2002 M- 1:33:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX> writes:

>Hmm, maybe I should try this...
>
>the question is: M- How comfortable is this with helmet?
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Genna Melamed
>Please note that my email is changing to
>genna@XXXXXX
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Hartzler" <pete@XXXXXX>
>To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Cc: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 1:21 PM
>Subject: Re: cooler when moving
>
>
>> Carl --
>>
>> Consider using water as your heat exchange fluid -- it's MUCH better than
>> air at carrying heat. M- Also, look into "Peltier junctions"
>> (thermoelectric heat pumps) as a way to move heat out of the water. M- The
>> other workable option, evaporative heat transfer, requires recharging the
>> water supply...
>>
>> You wouldn't need to cover the whole body with the heat exchange surface,
>> just a spot or two where the blood supply is near the surface, e.g. around
>> the neck.
>>
>> I suppose you could even strap the peltier junctions directly to you,
>> perhaps with a pad of water to avoid frostbite (no joke).
>>
>> Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
>> course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
>> implied!):
>>
>> http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2
>>
>> Unfortunately it looks rather like an "Obedience Collar" such as were once
>> worn on Triskelion...
>>
>> http://www.treasure-troves.com/startrek/TheGamestersOfTriskelion.html
>>
>> -ph
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Custer, Carl wrote:
>>
>> > Project n+1 is hooking up a $4 Wally Mart air mattress pump for those
>> > slow humid treks home in the summer. M- I'll plug it in the grip heater
>> > outlet (switch is handily mounted on the left mirror post) M- Bilge tubing
>> > from Homey D slides into my 'Stich sleeves with ease. M- Issue is whether
>> > or how to cool the air.
>> >
>> > Carl in Bethesda
>> >
>> > Will a "Big Gulp" absorb more heat than a Grape "Frostee"?
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>#################################################################
>#################################################################
>#################################################################
>#####
>#####
>#####
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>

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:08:19 2002
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From: "Diep, Tuan (Washington)" <Tuan.Diep@XXXXXX>
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Subject: starter problem
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:05 -0400
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My '95 CBRF3 has trouble starting.  I have to hit the starter several times
for a few minutes before it fires up.  Adjusting the choke doesn't seem to
make a difference and I haven't checked the battery yet.  Any
ideas/solutions?
Thanks
Tuan

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:12:13 2002
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On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Custer, Carl wrote:

> (A piece of screen blocks bugs.)

Wimp.  ;-)

Have you played around with different placements for the intake?  The spot 
depicted looks like it might suffer from the votex shadow of the air 
horns...</$0.02>


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:16:41 2002
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> Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
implied!):

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2

I've seen pics of people wearing this in the Sharper Image catalog.  Does not look like you could wear one with a helmet on.  And if you could, it would probably prevent you from being able to tilt your head back.  And likely to be a hazard to you in the event of a get-off.

> Unfortunately it looks rather like an "Obedience Collar" such as were once
worn on Triskelion...

http://www.treasure-troves.com/startrek/TheGamestersOfTriskelion.html

Yes, it is a total geek piece.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:19:55 2002
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Tuan,

If it eventually starts, it's more than likely the battery.  Does it only happen when you first start it up and is otherwise OK if you turn it off and re-start it after riding?  If so, sounds like your battery is no longer holding a charge and just needs to be replaced.  If not, it's possible that you have a problem with your re-charging system.  Also, can you bump start your bike?

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Diep, Tuan (Washington) Tuan.Diep@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:05 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: starter problem


My '95 CBRF3 has trouble starting.  I have to hit the starter several times
for a few minutes before it fires up.  Adjusting the choke doesn't seem to
make a difference and I haven't checked the battery yet.  Any
ideas/solutions?
Thanks
Tuan

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:28:36 2002
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   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <RELAY353Mtt8j5VH9ex00004ca5@relay3.softcomca.com>
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Hmm, I think he means that the starter cranks but the engine won't "fire."
I suspect you have worn or fouled spark plugs or that you need a carb
cleaning.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>

Tuan,

If it eventually starts, it's more than likely the battery.  Does it only
happen when you first start it up and is otherwise OK if you turn it off and
re-start it after riding?  If so, sounds like your battery is no longer
holding a charge and just needs to be replaced.  If not, it's possible that
you have a problem with your re-charging system.  Also, can you bump start
your bike?

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Diep, Tuan (Washington) Tuan.Diep@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:08:05 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: starter problem


My '95 CBRF3 has trouble starting.  I have to hit the starter several times
for a few minutes before it fires up.  Adjusting the choke doesn't seem to
make a difference and I haven't checked the battery yet.  Any
ideas/solutions?
Thanks
Tuan

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:41:42 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
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Subject: Re: Re: cooler when moving
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:41:40 -0400
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Actually there is another product from sharper image

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?pid=26726800&pca
tid=3&catid=307

looks a little smaller(and cheaper).  This is a water cooler.



----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:16 PM
Subject: RE: Re: cooler when moving


> Sure wish I'd searched the web *before* I typed all that, because of
course Sharper Image already has such a thing for $US 70 (no endorsement
implied!):

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?sku=SI731LG2

I've seen pics of people wearing this in the Sharper Image catalog.  Does
not look like you could wear one with a helmet on.  And if you could, it
would probably prevent you from being able to tilt your head back.  And
likely to be a hazard to you in the event of a get-off.

> Unfortunately it looks rather like an "Obedience Collar" such as were once
worn on Triskelion...

http://www.treasure-troves.com/startrek/TheGamestersOfTriskelion.html

Yes, it is a total geek piece.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:41:53 2002
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I agree that if that's the case, the culprit could be a fouled plug(s) and/or dirty carbs.  I was experiencing a similar problem and the shop (Crossroads) told me I had a dirty plug.  They cleaned it up, so the problem is at least (temporarily) cured.  But I still need to replace the plugs anyway (next weekend).  Never cleaned carbs.  I don't know if it makes any difference, but I usually pour a bottle of carb cleaner into my gas tank at the beginning of the season to help clean them out after sitting around for most of the winter (although I do try to start the bike up and let it run a while at least every other week during the winter months).

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Paul Wilson pawilson@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:29:35 -0400
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, tuan.diep@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: starter problem


Hmm, I think he means that the starter cranks but the engine won't "fire."
I suspect you have worn or fouled spark plugs or that you need a carb
cleaning.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:45:56 2002
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I still think you're going to run into the problem of this thing preventing your neck from tilting back while wearing a helmet.  But Scooter's suggestion of going to the Shaper Image and trying one one with your helmet is the only way to know  And I'd be worried about having something wrapped around my neck in the event of a crash.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Genna Melamed genna@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:41:40 -0400
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: cooler when moving


Actually there is another product from sharper image

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?pid=26726800&pca
tid=3&catid=307

looks a little smaller(and cheaper).  This is a water cooler.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 14:52:51 2002
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From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX
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Wow, impact abrasion.  This is the first I've ever heard 
of it.  I guess that basically you hit the road and the 
jacket, etc. stays in place while your arm, etc. keeps 
moving inside of the jacket.  The road pushes the jacket 
into your arm with great force causing the abrasion.

What could limit this effect? Tighter leather? (no room 
to move inside of the jacket)  Possibly a liner with a 
lower friction coefficient...  Has anybody ever studied 
this?

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star Classic

>True - called impact abrasion.  My body's been scuffed 
>under left intact
>jeans and left intact leather.  I suspect layered 
>clothes might reduce
>the effect, but I'll be damned If I'm jumping off a 
>moving bike to test
>my theory.
>
>Bill


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From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>
To: "'Peter Hartzler'" <pete@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: cooler when moving
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:59:05 -0400
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> > (A piece of screen blocks bugs.)
	Hartzler harangues: 
> Wimp.  ;-)
	[Custer, Carl]  
	Ah jest didn' want to challenge the testimony of others who claimed
a wasp up the sleeve was disquieting. 8^D

> Have you played around with different placements for the intake?  
	[Custer, Carl]  
	Nope, that was a handy place to tie them, looked like a high
pressure spot, and the air flow over my wrists felt go-ood. In addition to
being cheep, ah'm lazy. 
	  
> The spot depicted looks like it might suffer from the votex shadow of the
> air horns...</$0.02>
	[Custer, Carl]  
	It'sor-ite I can take the heat when honkin' the tooters. 

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 15:11:59 2002
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Subject: RE: Re: Perforated Jackets
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I don't know about "studying" so-called impact abrasion, but probably the best way to minimize it is to wear something under your suit/jacket that won't bind to put a layer between your skin and the inside liner.  Something lycra-like comes to mind.  I usually wear a Coolmax t-shirt, but with short sleeves it's not gonna help protect my elbows and forearm against potential abrasion.  I know there is at least one company (can't remember who) that makes what amounts to a "body suit" to be worn inside race leathers that is designed both to help keep you cooler and minimize abrasion in the event of a crash.  This stuff might also do the trick:

http://www.helmetharbor.com/estore/products.cfm?seriesid=CoolStuff+Mens+Cool+Shirt+and+Pants

Another benefit of wearing something like this under a suit is that it makes it a whole lot easier to slip in and out of it.

Original Message:
-----------------

Wow, impact abrasion.  This is the first I've ever heard 
of it.  I guess that basically you hit the road and the 
jacket, etc. stays in place while your arm, etc. keeps 
moving inside of the jacket.  The road pushes the jacket 
into your arm with great force causing the abrasion.

What could limit this effect? Tighter leather? (no room 
to move inside of the jacket)  Possibly a liner with a 
lower friction coefficient...  Has anybody ever studied 
this?

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 15:20:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 12:20:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: cooler when moving
To: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX>,
   "'Peter Hartzler'" <pete@XXXXXX>
Cc: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Hmm, if you had one of those mattress pumps in the
tubing, the wasps might not survive the trip from the
intake to the sleeve.  Of course, if it did survive
the trip it probably wouldn't be very happy on
arrival.

Leon.
it's nice to see another bike with eccentric cheap
farkles.

--- "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > (A piece of screen blocks bugs.)
> 	Hartzler harangues: 
> > Wimp.  ;-)
> 	[Custer, Carl]  
> 	Ah jest didn' want to challenge the testimony of
> others who claimed
> a wasp up the sleeve was disquieting. 8^D


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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 16:14:31 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <RELAY1NfPs4zoF5TvMp00004cff@relay1.softcomca.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Re: cooler when moving
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:14:26 -0400
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Hey, maybe it will act as a neck brace :)




----------------------------------------------------------------
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Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
To: <genna@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:45 PM
Subject: RE: Re: Re: cooler when moving


I still think you're going to run into the problem of this thing preventing
your neck from tilting back while wearing a helmet.  But Scooter's
suggestion of going to the Shaper Image and trying one one with your helmet
is the only way to know  And I'd be worried about having something wrapped
around my neck in the event of a crash.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Genna Melamed genna@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:41:40 -0400
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: cooler when moving


Actually there is another product from sharper image

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview.jhtml?pid=26726800&pca
tid=3&catid=307

looks a little smaller(and cheaper).  This is a water cooler.

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 16:19:03 2002
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Either that or rip your throat out! %^)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Genna Melamed genna@XXXXXX
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:14:26 -0400
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Re: cooler when moving


Hey, maybe it will act as a neck brace :)

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 17:13:25 2002
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	 <pete@XXXXXX>
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Deere driver deigned, "Hmm, if you had one of those mattress pumps in the
tubing, the wasps might not survive the trip from the intake to the sleeve.
Of course, if it did survive the trip it probably wouldn't be very happy on
arrival."

Dizzy busy bees
Spinning stingers scary
Screens survive

"it's nice to see another bike with eccentric cheap farkles."
Ah'm from the gummimint and here to entertain yah. 


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 17:15:19 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:12:39 -0400
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Forwarded without comment from the LDRider list:

"I have seen one
person go down while wearing a Phoenix jacket.  This
accident happened at about 45 to 55 mph while riding in
the hills.  They were wearing jeans for pants.  It was
a low side crash.  They didn't get the benefit of a
"slide to a stop" to see how well the jacket performed
as they eventually slid off the side of road and down
into a gully, but I'd say they slid at least 50 to 60
feet before departing the road.  Subject's knees,legs
and butt were hamburger.  Upper body was in pretty good
shape.  No broken bones, and the jacket held up better
than I thought.  Elbow pads were worn down to almost
nothing, but did not wear through.  I don't know how
the pads stayed in the jacket as there wasn't much left
to hold them in.  Back was severely abraded (he still
had back pad in) and the rest of the arms were pretty
torn up.  I saw NO evidence of melting fabric, though
it was pretty torn up to be able to tell.  Guy had road
rash on his wrists (he was wearing some light weight
gloves) and his palms.  He had a little bit of rash on
his lower back where it looked like the jacket came up
a bit during the slide.  He did not have the jacket on
very tight, nor did he have it zipped to his pants.
All in all - I'd say the jacket did its job, though it
wasn't a "worst case" scenario.  Had he slid further on
the pavement, I'm sure the pads would have worn
through, though the back pads could have taken more
abuse.  I will also say that this rider did some
tumbling instead of getting flat on the ground.  The
tumbling probably helped by not subjecting the jacket
to extreme sliding conditions.
Jeans looked like ....
a bloody mess.  I think he did break a leg and a rib."

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
www.wilsonline.org
Join the VFR750 list >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfr750



From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 17:25:36 2002
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From: LORI <wilsonl@XXXXXX>
To: "'DCCycles'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: SPAM: Bike for sale
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 17:27:41 -0700
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Bike for sale:
1995 750 Yamaha Virago Red/White
41,000 miles. Corbin Seat w/sissy bar, chrome extras (sidecovers, frame cover), antivibration foam grips, and DOWCO cover.
Pipes scratched, small scratch in tank from low speed drop in rain.
$3200.00
Email me (Lori):  motorcyclegrl@XXXXXX or call (w) 301-846-5809

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 17:30:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
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And the vast majority of people ride around in jeans... They deserve
whatever they get, IMO. I'm toying with getting a Raptor but I too
didn't like the feel of the leather even though JR claims 1.4mm. Sure
didn't feel like it. MOre like fashion leather to me.

The thing is: "just going round town" can easily lead to doing 60+mph
on say the beltway or US-50/29/GW Parkway. So that argument to me
doesn't hold water.


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 18:45:57 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 18:45:50 -0400
From: James Reazor <JReazor@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Perforated Jackets
In-reply-to: <F113eqdGSyMp69YDqSk00001f57@hotmail.com>
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> Steve,
> I put my hands on a Reactor jacket last sunday at a swap meet,
> and I was not
> impressed. The leather is so thin it reminds me of the fashion leather
> available at stores like Wilson's in the mall.
> Personally I have more confidence in the Phoenix. Given it's track record
> both with listers and others, I would chose the Phoenix if I were
> to buy one
> of these light weight jackets.
> Personally, I'm saving for a Vanson pro-perf to use when the CSRX is too
> hot.
>
> Dave Moquin
> 99 VFR 800

	I have to agree with Dave's assessment. I saw a Reactor at Cycle Sport in
Alexandria last week. I think I'd go with the Phoenix and save the extra
cash. I doubt that the Reactor offers any more protection from the looks of
it. I could be wrong. I have a perfed First Gear Pilot that works really
well for me. I haven't crashed in it but it is comfortable and it has these
cool little zippered pockets on the forearms that are extremely convenient
for toll money (you have to appreciate the little things in life).

WARNING: If you want a response to this message to go to the VFR list you'll
have to add the address. I removed the VFR list from this reply because I
don't know anyone there that isn't here and am not a big fan of cross
posting.

-James
'00 SV650


From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 19:11:24 2002
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Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:11:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020410213018.7835.qmail@web20105.mail.yahoo.com>
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Good point.  I am guilty of wearing jeans in town.  Is
there an alternative to jeans like the Phoenx jacket?


--- matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX> wrote:
> And the vast majority of people ride around in
> jeans... They deserve
> whatever they get, IMO. I'm toying with getting a
> Raptor but I too
> didn't like the feel of the leather even though JR
> claims 1.4mm. Sure
> didn't feel like it. MOre like fashion leather to
> me.
> 
> The thing is: "just going round town" can easily
> lead to doing 60+mph
> on say the beltway or US-50/29/GW Parkway. So that
> argument to me
> doesn't hold water.
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


=====


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 19:14:42 2002
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From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Phoenix overpants and Ballistic overpants. I have had the latter since
day one. great stuff and will protect vastly better than jeans alone.
Now granted I still wear jeans under them. I would definately not
recommend shorts no matter what the overpant.

Motorcycling is a long-sleeve/long-pant sport. "Deal with it."  %^)

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From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 20:24:15 2002
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From: Chuck and Karen Pena <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
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To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
CC: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
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No.  Motorcycling is a "you make your choices and take your chances" 
sport.  People who just "ride around" in jeans (and I have been "guilty" 
of such) do indeed get what they deserve.  But when I do it, I recognize 
the risks of my actions and am willing to accept the consequences.  And 
at least in my case, "tootling around town" is pretty much just what I 
do when I make the decision to ride in jeans and my "fashion leather" 
bomber jacket.  It's just a trip to Java Shack or CarPool and not more 
than 2-3 miles.  No beltway, no parkway.  Just city streets.  And being 
the responsible and law-abiding rider that I am, I am never in excess of 
the posted speed limits. %^)

matthew patton wrote:

> 
> Motorcycling is a long-sleeve/long-pant sport. "Deal with it."  %^)




From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 21:28:50 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:28:45 -0400
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On Wednesday 10 April 2002 15:11, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
> I know there is at least one company (can't
> remember who) that makes what amounts to a "body suit" to be worn inside
> race eathers that is designed both to help keep you cooler and minimize
> abrasion in the event of a crash.  

Survey says.... BUUUUZZZZZZZ.

Definatly keeps you cooler... hasn't done a thing to keep the skin on my arms 
and shoulders. This is during high-speed impacts though... YMMV at lower 
speeds.  I've heard putting baby powder under your leathers helps, but I 
haven't tried it... I would also think that any amount of sweat would negate 
it.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 21:52:47 2002
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At 10:37 AM 4/7/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Pics and specs on the car at http://www.ws6.org/  If anyone 'net savvy buys
>the car, I'll also transfer the ws6.org domain to them (for whatever fee
>I'm charged).
>
>Thanks!
>
>-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

Thanks to all for the interest, the car is sold.

-- Wayne

From dc-cycles-request Wed Apr 10 23:05:02 2002
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From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Motorcycle towing company
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:53:43 -0400
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Anyone know of company around Herndon, Chantilly (Fairfax county) that will 
tow a motorcycle? My auto club could not find me one in time. My bike 
decided to not start. I need the bike towed from Chantilly to Woodbridge.

Thanks in advance
Sanath

_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 00:30:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:30:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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> decided to not start. I need the bike towed from Chantilly to Woodbridge.


I hope you are not talking about the new Ducati you were thinking about
getting?

Any idea why it won't start? Is it electircal/battery? If so I assume you
tried to bump start it.

Dave



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 05:37:05 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX
Cc: "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:37:16 -0400
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So the phoenix jacket crash victims get road rash is the common theme?



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 05:48:00 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:48:11 -0400
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I've seen the matching pants on ebay... but.. I  have a bad feelign
about white pants getting really dirty. They are usually smaller in
size.. like 32-34.. if you're that small you might want to keep an eye
open.

You assert the white/black are different as far as keeping you cool,
in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you have any data to
support your statement?  I'm not saying you're wrong nor lying,  I
just like to be scientific and know the basis of the facts I accept. 

I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things matter as far as
temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept it makes a
difference for everything.  I suspect it may not make a difference
in perforated leather jackets since air isnt' exactly contained.
I'd just like to see the evidence to support the theories.

Anyone got two identical thermometers?  of course the bad part about
conducting such a test is that if it's warm enough to conduct the
test, it's better to be riding with them on ; )

Danny

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:31:45 -0400, you wrote:

|>Actually, color plays a BIG part in how hot or cold you are.  Black absorbs heat and light.  White reflects both.  A solid black jacket will become hotter than a solid white jacket.  I've got the w/r/b perfed jacket and a set of w/r/b Teknic pants that match really well.  They're not perfed but, they work great anyway.  Had to have the zipper reversed so they could zip together.
|>
|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:23:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:
|>
|>>I have that same color AGV jacket, and it is wonderful. M-BM-  I want to
|>>get some attatching perforated leather pants as well.
|>>
|>>I don't think the color plays much a role. I think i'd be just as
|>>happy with a black fieldsheer jacket. Maybe even happier since the
|>>white can look awful when dirty. (but designs do look better than
|>>solids)
|>>
|>> I am interested in getting some mesh riding gear just for the doubley
|>>hot days where i'm not riding "hard", and just going M-BM- to M-BM- get to a
|>>destination and stop riding.
|>>
|>>However I dont' trush joe rocket stitching.. I'll go with the
|>>fieldsheer mesh version. M-BM- I also feel naked without some knee and shin
|>>padding and protection. M-BM-  I want to look into gettting some martial
|>>arts under the garment padding... for my shins, knees, and hips, and
|>>possibly M-BM- combine that with some jeans. M-BM- Having a sore hip sucks..
|>>having a broken pelvis, well I don't want to know.
|>>
|>>
|>>Danny
|>>
|>>On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:30:43 -0400, you wrote:
|>>
|>>|>I've got a w/r/b perfed AGV jacket that I love for summer riding. M-BM- Because it's mainly white, it's cooler to start of with. M-BM- The perfs just add to it. M-BM- It's also seen the pavement a couple times and has held up great. M-BM- I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon. M-BM- Just my .02.
|>>|>
|>>|>Scooter
|>>|>
|>>|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 M-BM- 4:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> writes:
|>>|>
|>>|>>On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
|>>|>>
|>>|>>> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
|>>|>>> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
|>>|>>> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
|>>|>>> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
|>>|>>> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
|>>|>>>
|>>|>>> Or will I simply boil come summer?
|>>|>>>
|>>|>>
|>>|>>Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front. M-BM- Might not be
|>>|>>race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
|>>|>>be a solid jacket.
|>>|>>
|>>|>>--
|>>|>>Dan Brown
|>>|>>brown@XXXXXX
|>>|>>
|>>|>>
|>>
|>>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 05:54:24 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX
Cc: bhuson@XXXXXX, pattonme@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:54:35 -0400
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Actually from what I heard, the impact abraision comes from materials
you wear and the looseness of your leathers.   From what I hear,
tighter leathers are better. I think the less your body travels inside
the leather the better, as that is the travel of abraision.

Also I kind of trust the inside mesh layer of my leathers to help
avoid that... verses say cotton clothing which has been known to be
embeded into some people's skin if worn under leathers.

I think that cool layer suit would help keep you cooler by creating
space between a persons skin and leathers.. space for air flow.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 05:56:15 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 05:56:27 -0400
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my high school driving instruction a decade ago said "when your
vehicle's weight settle's back" (that's without the use of
accellerationof course).

I can come to a complete stop without putting my foot down.


Danny.

On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 05:56:21 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

|>I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute. 
|>Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
|>means that your foot or feet must touch the ground? 
|>Thanks
|>
|>Mark
|>
|>=====
|>
|>
|>__________________________________________________
|>Do You Yahoo!?
|>Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
|>http://taxes.yahoo.com/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:00:15 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Louis F. Caplan" <nighthawk700@XXXXXX>
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:00:27 -0400
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I woudln't mind demonstrating to a cop that I could come to a complete
stop without putting my foot down....

by pulling a high endo, letting the back land, and then pulling off.
heh heh..

I mean with his permission to demonstrate suchof course...

"always obey the officer"   


Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:03:36 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX>
Cc: Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:03:48 -0400
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One thing for sure is...

if you come to a complete stop without putting your foot down, then
accellerate and a cop pulls you over, that is one dic#head assinine
cop who musta finished hs last donught 2 minutes ago and got bored.

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:05:55 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "mobacc" <mobacc@XXXXXX>
Cc: "DC-Cycles" <DC-Cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Overpass Rock Throwers
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:06:07 -0400
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I remember something like that happening some years back in our
area...  some people were getting badly hurt. I think one person may
have died?

some people don't deserve to have hands.




On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 09:31:34 -0400, you wrote:

|>Heads up from Ch4 news -- A number of reports of rocks being thrown from the
|>E Street overpass (near Kennedy Center).  Hmmm.  Baseball season stirring up
|>idle hands.
|>
|>
|>Bill S. / DC
|>'99 VN750 -- Potholes below, rocks above.  Back to hibernation?
|>Join the AMA.  Help protect my riding fun.
|>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:06:28 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
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|>Don't forget the red light, speeding cameras and potholes!

and road chemicals.. anti freeze and oil

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:09:48 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
Cc: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:10:00 -0400
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thanks for forwarding that.  ALl i can say is ouch.

I think if i had oen, i might add some fabric to form a drop down
belt loop with a button fly type of attatchment.

So you swing it down, through your belt, back up, then button the
button.

I always like wearing my belt when i ride. i figure that thick layer
over my spin is better.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 06:13:53 2002
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From: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
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Subject: Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:14:05 -0400
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In the summer I usually where my leathers with shorts underneath and
remove the leathers when i get to my destination. 

There are only usually a couple of hot days per year where i'll not
wear the leather pants and wear just jeans and that's when i believe i
won't do a lot of highway milage.

Today I did wear just jeans tho becasue i only expected to go less
than 5 miles and back, and of course I did a lot more riding than that
and leaned my bike a little and did a few stunts.

usually i feel naked with just jeans, but i only felt that way in the
curves. the stunts (wheelie and endo)  I didnt' seem to notice any
difference.

but tomorrow like every other riding day.. it's full leathers.

Danny

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 08:33:53 2002
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From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
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Henry's towed mine once.  They used a "stinger", the hook that extends back.
Probably wouldn't work on a bike with plastic.  Mine is a Harley and the driver
ran a couple straps, hoisted the bike up, secured the wheels to the snatch
blocks and hauled Hawg!

Or you could rent a trailer from U-haul, about $20, and tow it.  If you need a
two vehicle I've loaned my pickemup truck to listers before but I won't be this
weekend.  Check me on my cell (703) 624-9648 if you want to hook up, so to
speak.

Bill

Sanath S wrote:

> Anyone know of company around Herndon, Chantilly (Fairfax county) that will
> tow a motorcycle? My auto club could not find me one in time. My bike
> decided to not start. I need the bike towed from Chantilly to Woodbridge.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Sanath
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:07:33 2002
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From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: dave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
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Yep, its my brand new Ducati, imagine that. I was out riding yesterday 
afternoon and everything was running perfectly, came back to the office and 
parked it. A couple of hours later about to go home, I turn the key to "ON" 
and the usual hum that I hear of the fuel pump is not there, when I push the 
start botton nothing. I have no idea what happened, I dont think I left the 
battery on. Tried to bump start it, no luck. I am guessing the battery is 
dead. Called the dealer, he told me do some basic stuff all which I had 
already tried.

My only option now is to find a tow company that will tow a motorcycle to 
the dealer in woodbridge. Like I said earlier my auto club was not about to 
locate anyone who could handle motorcycles.

Sanath


>From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
>To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:30:04 -0400
>
> > decided to not start. I need the bike towed from Chantilly to 
>Woodbridge.
>
>
>I hope you are not talking about the new Ducati you were thinking about
>getting?
>
>Any idea why it won't start? Is it electircal/battery? If so I assume you
>tried to bump start it.
>
>Dave
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:17:39 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
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independent motorcycle transport
301 946-5412

you sure you didn't just forget to raise the kickstand?


--- Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Anyone know of company around Herndon, Chantilly (Fairfax
> county) that will 
> tow a motorcycle? My auto club could not find me one in
> time. My bike 
> decided to not start. I need the bike towed from
> Chantilly to Woodbridge.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Sanath


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:18:29 2002
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Roach,

The lining I've seen in most leathers is mesh-like (presumably for air flow and I guess also so help air them out after wearing them so they don't get all stinky) and is sorta "rough."  In direct contact with skin, it's going to cause some sort of abrasion.  So anything you put inbetween your skin and the lining that isn't "rough" is at least going to help (some) in preventing any potential rash.  Cotton is probably no-good.  But lyca-like stuff would probably fit the bill.  But crashing is crashing and there's probably nothing that can be done to absolutely, positively eliminate the possibility of rash from a crash, even when wearing full protective leathers.  I think the best you can do is take reasonable steps to reduce or minimize it.  The rash you want to avoid at all costs is skin in direct contact with pavement.  Rash from the inside of a suit is likely to be insignificant by comparison.

BTW, who makes the bodysuit thing and how much does it cost?

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------

Definatly keeps you cooler... hasn't done a thing to keep the skin on my arms 
and shoulders. This is during high-speed impacts though... YMMV at lower 
speeds.  I've heard putting baby powder under your leathers helps, but I 
haven't tried it... I would also think that any amount of sweat would negate 
it.

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:19:07 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
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did you check the starter relay?



--- Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Yep, its my brand new Ducati, imagine that. I was out
> riding yesterday 
> afternoon and everything was running perfectly, came back
> to the office and 
> parked it. A couple of hours later about to go home, I
> turn the key to "ON" 
> and the usual hum that I hear of the fuel pump is not
> there, when I push the 
> start botton nothing. I have no idea what happened, I
> dont think I left the 
> battery on. Tried to bump start it, no luck. I am
> guessing the battery is 
> dead. Called the dealer, he told me do some basic stuff
> all which I had 
> already tried.
> 
> My only option now is to find a tow company that will tow
> a motorcycle to 
> the dealer in woodbridge. Like I said earlier my auto
> club was not about to 
> locate anyone who could handle motorcycles.


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:19:21 2002
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Roach,

The lining I've seen in most leathers is mesh-like (presumably for air flow and I guess also so help air them out after wearing them so they don't get all stinky) and is sorta "rough."  In direct contact with skin, it's going to cause some sort of abrasion.  So anything you put inbetween your skin and the lining that isn't "rough" is at least going to help (some) in preventing any potential rash.  Cotton is probably no-good.  But lyca-like stuff would probably fit the bill.  But crashing is crashing and there's probably nothing that can be done to absolutely, positively eliminate the possibility of rash from a crash, even when wearing full protective leathers.  I think the best you can do is take reasonable steps to reduce or minimize it.  The rash you want to avoid at all costs is skin in direct contact with pavement.  Rash from the inside of a suit is likely to be insignificant by comparison.

BTW, who makes the bodysuit thing and how much does it cost?

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------

Definatly keeps you cooler... hasn't done a thing to keep the skin on my arms 
and shoulders. This is during high-speed impacts though... YMMV at lower 
speeds.  I've heard putting baby powder under your leathers helps, but I 
haven't tried it... I would also think that any amount of sweat would negate 
it.

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:21:26 2002
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Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
I thought I could only bring here.  

My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
diplomat from Turkey and is now living here. 
Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
wants to buy a bike. 

A friend of his was going to purchase the bike, and
Anton wants to be the primary rider on it, so he's been
trying to get insurance.  Nobody will insure him for
this situation.  Each insurance company has given him a
different reason why this won't work.

I'm not sure there is any option for him on this one,
but was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts,
insight into this one...

Thanks!
Laura


________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:26:37 2002
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I hate it when that happens! %^)  On more than one occassion I've tried to start my m/c up, cursed when it wouldn't fire up, and then realized I had the kickstand down and the bike in gear.  But shouldn't make any difference if the transmission was in neutral.  And I think Sanath said he tried to bump start it, so I assume he would've had the kickstand up.  But geez.  He just spent beaucoup bucks on a brand spankin' new Duc.  It won't start.  He checks everything the dealer tells him to check and it still won't start.  And the dealer won't come get it???  Seems like you ought to get better service if your going to lay out that kind of moola.  So much for the joys of owning an expensive, exotic, Italian sportbike (yes, I'm jealous).

Chuck

Original Message:
-----------------

you sure you didn't just forget to raise the kickstand?

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:32:08 2002
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, LAURA GRANATO wrote:

> Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
> I thought I could only bring here.
>
> My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
> diplomat from Turkey and is now living here.
> Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
> one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
> something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
> wants to buy a bike.
>

he could allways lease a bike, or if they dont lease the model he wants,
lease the car, and own the bike.

-jd


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:32:50 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:32:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re: Motorcycle towing company
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX,
   "dc-cycles@XXXXXX" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--- "cvkgpena@XXXXXX" <cvkgpena@XXXXXX>
wrote:
> I hate it when that happens! %^)  On more than one
> occassion I've tried to start my m/c up, cursed when it
> wouldn't fire up, and then realized I had the kickstand
> down and the bike in gear.  But shouldn't make any
> difference if the transmission was in neutral.  And I
> think Sanath said he tried to bump start it, so I assume
> he would've had the kickstand up.

i didn't see his second post until after i pressed "send." 
my bad.



> But geez.  He just
> spent beaucoup bucks on a brand spankin' new Duc.  It
> won't start.  He checks everything the dealer tells him
> to check and it still won't start.  And the dealer won't
> come get it???  Seems like you ought to get better
> service if your going to lay out that kind of moola.  So
> much for the joys of owning an expensive, exotic, Italian
> sportbike (yes, I'm jealous).

dealer will pick up the towing tab.  RIGHT SANATH!?!?!  you
will be forcing them to, i'm certain.

i tell you what, though (and this i forgot to warn him
before--sorry), coleman powersport set that machine up. 
coleman set mine up too (and them sent it to battley where
i purchased it (i found this out by inspecting the
records))....and the job was done really half-assed.  i was
re-torquing shit all over the place, they incorrectly
installed the windscreen, etc.  it would be worth it to at
least attempt to force them to give the bike a thorough
going-over, to set your mind at ease. 



--
tg



> Original Message:
> -----------------
> 
> you sure you didn't just forget to raise the kickstand?
> 
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
> 


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:35:19 2002
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From: biga@XXXXXX (Andrew Culpepper)
Subject: Re: diplomat wants bike
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
 "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
.....
> I'm not sure there is any option for him on this one,
> but was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts,
> insight into this one...

Sell the car.

Andrew
'90 EX500
'01 ZR-7S

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:40:19 2002
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From: "George Cole" <George.Cole@XXXXXX>
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Ahh, nothing like that Italian character.... poke poke

:o)

George Cole
01 FZ1 

>>> "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX> 04/11/02 09:07AM >>>
Yep, its my brand new Ducati, imagine that



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:41:05 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:41:38 -0700
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From: Stephen Harris <harris@XXXXXX>
Subject: named operators
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	If the persons who "owns" the bike resides in the same house as your friend he can be rightly listed on the policy as a regular operator.  If they live in different households no insurance company will list him as a operator, weather it is a car or motorcycle.  

	The owner of the bike can give "permissive use" to anyone he wants, but if your friend is the primary user of the machine, or is actually paying for it in a back door sort of way, no insurance company will touch that either.  Even if they could get a policy by misrepresentation, in the event of a claim coverage would likely be denied as the policy would be rescinded to its incept date & the premium returned.  

	The good news is the diplomate can get into a wreck & go back to his country protected by immunity...:-)  

	It would be the same if it was a car, this isn't a biker bust.  

	S



At 06:21 AM 4/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
>I thought I could only bring here.  
>
>My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
>diplomat from Turkey and is now living here. 
>Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
>one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
>something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
>wants to buy a bike. 
>
>A friend of his was going to purchase the bike, and
>Anton wants to be the primary rider on it, so he's been
>trying to get insurance.  Nobody will insure him for
>this situation.  Each insurance company has given him a
>different reason why this won't work.
>
>I'm not sure there is any option for him on this one,
>but was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts,
>insight into this one...
>
>Thanks!
>Laura
>
>
>________________________________________________
>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart. 
>http://www.peoplepc.com 
>
>

Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?
Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:49:06 2002
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	Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:48:53 -0400
From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:48:52 -0400
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On Thursday 11 April 2002 05:48, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:

> You assert the white/black are different as far as keeping you cool,
> in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you have any data to
> support your statement?  I'm not saying you're wrong nor lying,  I
> just like to be scientific and know the basis of the facts I accept.
>
> I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things matter as far as
> temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept it makes a
> difference for everything.  I suspect it may not make a difference
> in perforated leather jackets since air isnt' exactly contained.
> I'd just like to see the evidence to support the theories.

Daniel... um, no offense but... it's basic physics.  Black things absorb the 
full spectrum of light waves, white things reflect them. Air doesn't figure 
into the equation - the material (leather) is hot, and it's in close 
proximity to your body.  Sort of like taking a shirt out of the dryer and 
putting it on, vs. one from your dresser.  

A white jacket is going to be cooler... I just don't particularly like white 
leather :)

- Roach




From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:53:39 2002
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Mesh jacket - crash scene report
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:53:41 -0400
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I have Draggin Jeans, jeans with Kevlar in the knee and rear area.  They
aren't as protective, but I know I'll where them more.  If you're an AMA
member I think you can get them for $80, otherwise it's closer to $100.  The
only bad part is they are pretty tight to keep the Kevlar where it needs to
be and to help in the sliding, like we've been talking about, but otherwise
I wouldn't normally wear jeans that tight.  About a month after I got them
they came out with a baggier cargo pocket pair for like $20 more.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Mark Kitchell [mailto:markkitchell@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:11 PM
To:	matthew patton; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: Mesh jacket - crash scene report

Good point.  I am guilty of wearing jeans in town.  Is
there an alternative to jeans like the Phoenx jacket?



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 09:55:09 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:55:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: roach@XXXXXX, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Motorcycle Consumer News did a test of white vs. black
helmets a year or so ago.  The results as I remember
them was if you leave the helmet sitting still with no
breeze, then the black helmet was marginally warmer. 
They were not able to detect any difference in
temperature when the helmets were being worn.  Yes the
black absorbs a more heat, but it's not enough to be
detectable under normal operating conditions.

Leon.
--- Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thursday 11 April 2002 05:48,
> daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > You assert the white/black are different as far as
> keeping you cool,
> > in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you
> have any data to
> > support your statement?  I'm not saying you're
> wrong nor lying,  I
> > just like to be scientific and know the basis of
> the facts I accept.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things
> matter as far as
> > temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept
> it makes a
> > difference for everything.  I suspect it may not
> make a difference
> > in perforated leather jackets since air isnt'
> exactly contained.
> > I'd just like to see the evidence to support the
> theories.
> 
> Daniel... um, no offense but... it's basic physics. 
> Black things absorb the 
> full spectrum of light waves, white things reflect
> them. Air doesn't figure 
> into the equation - the material (leather) is hot,
> and it's in close 
> proximity to your body.  Sort of like taking a shirt
> out of the dryer and 
> putting it on, vs. one from your dresser.  
> 
> A white jacket is going to be cooler... I just don't
> particularly like white 
> leather :)
> 
> - Roach
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:01:59 2002
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From: Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX>
Reply-To: roach@XXXXXX
To: Leon Begeman <mriderleon@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:01:49 -0400
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On Thursday 11 April 2002 09:55, you wrote:
> Motorcycle Consumer News did a test of white vs. black
> helmets a year or so ago.  The results as I remember
> them was if you leave the helmet sitting still with no
> breeze, then the black helmet was marginally warmer.
> They were not able to detect any difference in
> temperature when the helmets were being worn.  Yes the
> black absorbs a more heat, but it's not enough to be
> detectable under normal operating conditions.

But... a helmet isn't made of a 1.4mm thick piece of porous material. It 
would take substantially more enerygy to increase the temp of the actual 
shell of a helmet, especially to the point where it would feel hotter to your 
head through the pads and lining.

- Roach

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:05:38 2002
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Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
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Helmets - black vs white :
http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8h.6.html

...but there was a test in MO a couple of years ago comparing white and 
black solid leathers.  I recall no significant difference in temperatures 
inside the leathers, while the surface did have quite a difference.  In the 
end, the internals are what matters.  Wish I could find that article, but 
google is failing me.  So is the MO search page.

http://www.motorcycle.com/search.motml

At 09:48 AM 4/11/2002, you wrote:
>Daniel... um, no offense but... it's basic physics.  Black things absorb the
>full spectrum of light waves, white things reflect them. Air doesn't figure
>into the equation - the material (leather) is hot, and it's in close
>proximity to your body.  Sort of like taking a shirt out of the dryer and
>putting it on, vs. one from your dresser.
>
>A white jacket is going to be cooler... I just don't particularly like white
>leather :)


___________________________________________
     Mike Troutman
          http://www.troutman.org/vfr

         1997 Honda VFR 750
         AMA ~=~ NMA ~=~ NRA



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:08:02 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 07:08:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: roach@XXXXXX, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX, ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
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Someone on my VTR mailing list last year (I think
that's when/where I heard it) did a temperature
comparison between a white helmet and a black helmet.
His assumption was that white was going to be cooler
than black (as it tends to be with normal clothing).
As it turned out, there was absolutely no difference
between the two in inside temperature. (I think he put
them both outside in the sun for a certain amount of
time, measuring the inside temp with a thermometer)
This wasn't too scientific, but does prove that the
"lighter is cooler" theory isn't always true. Also,
leather and a polycarbonate helmet shell are probably
very different.

Chris Weaver


--- Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thursday 11 April 2002 05:48,
> daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
> 
> > You assert the white/black are different as far as
> keeping you cool,
> > in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you
> have any data to
> > support your statement?  I'm not saying you're
> wrong nor lying,  I
> > just like to be scientific and know the basis of
> the facts I accept.
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things
> matter as far as
> > temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept
> it makes a
> > difference for everything.  I suspect it may not
> make a difference
> > in perforated leather jackets since air isnt'
> exactly contained.
> > I'd just like to see the evidence to support the
> theories.
> 
> Daniel... um, no offense but... it's basic physics. 
> Black things absorb the 
> full spectrum of light waves, white things reflect
> them. Air doesn't figure 
> into the equation - the material (leather) is hot,
> and it's in close 
> proximity to your body.  Sort of like taking a shirt
> out of the dryer and 
> putting it on, vs. one from your dresser.  
> 
> A white jacket is going to be cooler... I just don't
> particularly like white 
> leather :)
> 
> - Roach
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:13:43 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:13:43 -0400
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First of all, your friend Anton is a guest in this country and the last thing we need is foreigners driving on our roads.  We have enough problems with U.S. citizens. %^)

Second, he's a diplomat so what does he care about obeying our laws?  He's immune.

But if the law says he can only own one vehicle, then it sounds like he's going to have to make a choice between owning a car and owning a m/c.  Can another embassy staffer (who doesn't already own a vehicle) buy it and get him insured?  Maybe he can get the embassy to buy it as an "official vehicle" and list him as the driver.  I think someone is going to have to get very creative to make this work for your pal.

Original Message: <SNIP>
-----------------

My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
diplomat from Turkey and is now living here. 
Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
wants to buy a bike. 

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:14:55 2002
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From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
To: lgranato@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: ertangulec@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: 
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:14:48 -0400
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Laura,

I work for an Embassy and called our protocol guy.  In our Embassy you can 
have as many vehicles as you want, or can afford to have.

He did mention that every Embassy is different.  It all boils down to this:

If the Turkish Government allows US diplomats working at the US Embassy in 
Turkey to have only one vehicle, then the State Department would  allow 
Turkish diplomats working at the Turkish Embassy in the USA to have only one 
vehicle.

Kind of tit for tat.

Hope this helps.

Natasha


>From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>CC: ertangulec@XXXXXX
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 06:21:17 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
>I thought I could only bring here.
>
>My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
>diplomat from Turkey and is now living here.
>Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
>one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
>something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
>wants to buy a bike.
>
>A friend of his was going to purchase the bike, and
>Anton wants to be the primary rider on it, so he's been
>trying to get insurance.  Nobody will insure him for
>this situation.  Each insurance company has given him a
>different reason why this won't work.
>
>I'm not sure there is any option for him on this one,
>but was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts,
>insight into this one...
>
>Thanks!
>Laura
>
>
>________________________________________________
>PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
>http://www.peoplepc.com


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:17:36 2002
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From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
To: jdonovan@XXXXXX, lgranato@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX, ertangulec@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:17:29 -0400
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One problem with leasing is that in most cases, diplomats aren't allowed to 
lease vehicles as they can be sent back to their countries or origin without 
warning or notice and most companies won't let you break a lease without 
paying for the remainder of the contract, i.e. Volkswagen.

I tried to get out of my previous lease with VW and was told that I'd have 
to pay the full amount owed for the whole 4-year period of my lease.

Natasha


>From: JD <jdonovan@XXXXXX>
>To: LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>CC: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: your mail
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:19:00 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>
>On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, LAURA GRANATO wrote:
>
> > Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
> > I thought I could only bring here.
> >
> > My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
> > diplomat from Turkey and is now living here.
> > Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
> > one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
> > something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
> > wants to buy a bike.
> >
>
>he could allways lease a bike, or if they dont lease the model he wants,
>lease the car, and own the bike.
>
>-jd
>


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:36:26 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411135508.94275.qmail@web14008.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:37:44 -0400
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leon Begeman" <mriderleon@XXXXXX>



> Motorcycle Consumer News did a test of white vs. black
> helmets a year or so ago.  Yes the
> black absorbs a more heat, but it's not enough to be
> detectable under normal operating conditions.
> 
> Leon.

Yep, no surprise there.  All that thick foam is an excellent insulator.

Paul in DC




From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 10:42:14 2002
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Message-ID: <01e101c1e167$0f994ab0$7d687b3f@ducman>
From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, <dave@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <LAW2-F138rOJhKPc99i000010ca@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:42:09 -0400
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Did you check all the fuses?

It sounded like your fuel pump was not running(the bike will not start
without it)  There might be a problem with start relay/switch or other
possibility is:

On 916 fuel pump is on the same fuse as regulator(I'm not sure how 996(8) is
setup).  if there is a problem with that fuse, then you would get a same
effect.


----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: <dave@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company


> Yep, its my brand new Ducati, imagine that. I was out riding yesterday
> afternoon and everything was running perfectly, came back to the office
and
> parked it. A couple of hours later about to go home, I turn the key to
"ON"
> and the usual hum that I hear of the fuel pump is not there, when I push
the
> start botton nothing. I have no idea what happened, I dont think I left
the
> battery on. Tried to bump start it, no luck. I am guessing the battery is
> dead. Called the dealer, he told me do some basic stuff all which I had
> already tried.
>
> My only option now is to find a tow company that will tow a motorcycle to
> the dealer in woodbridge. Like I said earlier my auto club was not about
to
> locate anyone who could handle motorcycles.
>
> Sanath
>
>
> >From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
> >To: Sanath S <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> >Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company
> >Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 00:30:04 -0400
> >
> > > decided to not start. I need the bike towed from Chantilly to
> >Woodbridge.
> >
> >
> >I hope you are not talking about the new Ducati you were thinking about
> >getting?
> >
> >Any idea why it won't start? Is it electircal/battery? If so I assume you
> >tried to bump start it.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>



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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 11:34:46 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:34:25 EDT
Subject: Re: cooler when moving
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In a message dated 4/10/2002 1:51:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Carl.Custer@XXXXXX writes:

>  Also,
>  yes, you need to "recharge" the wet things every 60-100 miles. 

Depends on the humidity. In the Mohave (Las Vegas) where humidity hovers 
around none evaporation is very quick/efficient, the first time I tried a wet 
tee shirt (shut up) it was over 100deg. and I was shivering within two 
blocks. Within four blocks the shirt was crispy dry.  I wound up using a 
heavy sweat shirt that held more water and slowed air flow, it would last 
_most_ of the 10 mile ride home.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 11:47:37 2002
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From: PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:47:16 EDT
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In a message dated 4/10/2002 2:43:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
cvkgpena@XXXXXX writes:

> I usually pour a bottle of carb cleaner into my gas tank at the beginning 
of 
> the season to help clean them out after sitting around for most of the 
winter

Some _not all_ of these can do real harm to the rubber stuff in your carbs. 
_Any_ good premium fuel is chock full of cleaners because there was a problem 
with injectors when they first became common in cages. Anyhow, there should 
be more then enough cleaners in your fuel _IF_ the fuel is passing through at 
all, and if it is not, adding cleaners to your fuel will do nothing anyhow.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 12:09:58 2002
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As long as I'm not doing anything "bad" by adding carb cleaner, even if it doesn't improve anything it just makes me feel better. %^)

Original Message:<SNIP>

Some _not all_ of these can do real harm to the rubber stuff in your carbs.

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 12:52:14 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 09:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Eric Silberg <ersilberg@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jackets
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <20020411140801.83880.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com>
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--- Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Someone on my VTR mailing list last year (I think
> that's when/where I heard it) did a temperature
> comparison between a white helmet and a black
> helmet....

There are a couple key differences between a helmet
and a jacket heat wise.  First of all, a black helmet
is (generally) glossy, so even though the black color
will absorb more heat, the finish actually reflects a
lot of the incident light.  Leather on the other hand
has a relatively flat finish, very little reflection. 
While I don't know the numbers, the leather will have
a much higher coefficient of radiant heat transfer
than the helmet shell.  Also, all that EPS that's in
the helmet to protect your head is a great insulator,
so even if the shell heated up, it would take a long
time for that heat to get through to the interior of
the helmet.  The jacket on the other hand - especially
a summer one - is designed specifically not to
insulate.

Truthfully though, as long as you have decent airflow
over the jacket it's not going to get too hot unless
the air itself is very hot (convective heat transfer
is generally more efficient that radiant heat
transfer).  If you have to sit in traffic...the black
jacket can burn you...  If the point of the jacket is
to keep you cool though, you might as well not degrade
it's performance at all.  And the Kush Hammamatsu
looks better in grey anyway :)

__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 13:19:46 2002
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From: "Fisk, Euan" <efisk@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: When is a stop really a stop?
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I specifically asked my MSF instructor [a Montgomery County MD motorcycle
cop] this question about 5 years ago. He said, "absolutely not - as long as
you stop, that's fine."  I ride mostly in DC and do everything I can not
to put a foot down [just feels easier that way], and have never been yelled
at by the police.  

-Euan


>--- Mark Kitchell <markkitchell@XXXXXX> wrote:
>> I am dealing with lots of 4 way stops on my commute.
>> Can anyone tell me if the legal definition of a stop
>> means that your foot or feet must touch the ground?
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mark

>
>Is this all in DC?  (I remember you moved recently)  The reason I ask is
that
>some states (Districts) have different definitions.  I heard one story
(Urban
>Legend?  True?  Who knows) of people getting a warning in MD for not
putting
>both feet down at a stop.
>
>Louis


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 14:00:51 2002
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Message-ID: <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman>
From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>, "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net>
Subject: Re: 
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:00:24 -0400
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That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.

Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable
as long as there is permission of use.


My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal to make a "straw"
vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is anyone business....

Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a friend can be primary
owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more expensive option as
you may be required to insure both drivers

The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.  just tell them that
you have a bike and want to insure it....

----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:21 AM


> Morning all:  Ok, here's an interesting situation that
> I thought I could only bring here.
>
> My friend Anton is in a bit of a predicament.  He is a
> diplomat from Turkey and is now living here.
> Apparently, as a diplomat you are only allowed to own
> one vehicle in the wonderful U-S-of-A.  (I learn
> something new every day).  What's the problem?  He
> wants to buy a bike.
>
> A friend of his was going to purchase the bike, and
> Anton wants to be the primary rider on it, so he's been
> trying to get insurance.  Nobody will insure him for
> this situation.  Each insurance company has given him a
> different reason why this won't work.
>
> I'm not sure there is any option for him on this one,
> but was wondering if anyone had any advice, thoughts,
> insight into this one...
>
> Thanks!
> Laura
>
>
> ________________________________________________
> PeoplePC:  It's for people. And it's just smart.
> http://www.peoplepc.com
>



#################################################################
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#####
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 14:53:30 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:54:13 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Perforated Jackets
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I don't personally have any scientific evidence but, I'm sure there is something out there about black absorbing light and therefore heat.  Certainly seems to be the case when I wear my black jacket instead of my white one.  Just my .02.  YMMV.

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 11 Apr 2002 M- 5:48:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:

>I've seen the matching pants on ebay... but.. I M- have a bad feelign
>about white pants getting really dirty. They are usually smaller in
>size.. like 32-34.. if you're that small you might want to keep an eye
>open.
>
>You assert the white/black are different as far as keeping you cool,
>in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you have any data to
>support your statement? M- I'm not saying you're wrong nor lying, M- I
>just like to be scientific and know the basis of the facts I accept.
>
>I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things matter as far as
>temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept it makes a
>difference for everything. M- I suspect it may not make a difference
>in perforated leather jackets since air isnt' exactly contained.
>I'd just like to see the evidence to support the theories.
>
>Anyone got two identical thermometers? M- of course the bad part about
>conducting such a test is that if it's warm enough to conduct the
>test, it's better to be riding with them on ; )
>
>Danny
>
>On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 13:31:45 -0400, you wrote:
>
>|>Actually, color plays a BIG part in how hot or cold you are. M- Black absorbs heat and light. M- White reflects both. M- A solid black jacket will become hotter than a solid white jacket. M- I've got the w/r/b perfed jacket and a set of w/r/b Teknic pants that match really well. M- They're not perfed but, they work great anyway. M- Had to have the zipper reversed so they could zip together.
>|>
>|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 11:23:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX writes:
>|>
>|>>I have that same color AGV jacket, and it is wonderful. M-  I want to
>|>>get some attatching perforated leather pants as well.
>|>>
>|>>I don't think the color plays much a role. I think i'd be just as
>|>>happy with a black fieldsheer jacket. Maybe even happier since the
>|>>white can look awful when dirty. (but designs do look better than
>|>>solids)
>|>>
>|>> I am interested in getting some mesh riding gear just for the doubley
>|>>hot days where i'm not riding "hard", and just going M- to M- get to a
>|>>destination and stop riding.
>|>>
>|>>However I dont' trush joe rocket stitching.. I'll go with the
>|>>fieldsheer mesh version. M- I also feel naked without some knee and shin
>|>>padding and protection. M-  I want to look into gettting some martial
>|>>arts under the garment padding... for my shins, knees, and hips, and
>|>>possibly M- combine that with some jeans. M- Having a sore hip sucks..
>|>>having a broken pelvis, well I don't want to know.
>|>>
>|>>
>|>>Danny
>|>>
>|>>On Tue, 09 Apr 2002 17:30:43 -0400, you wrote:
>|>>
>|>>|>I've got a w/r/b perfed AGV jacket that I love for summer riding. M- Because it's mainly white, it's cooler to start of with. M- The perfs just add to it. M- It's also seen the pavement a couple times and has held up great. M- I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon. M- Just my .02.
>|>>|>
>|>>|>Scooter
>|>>|>
>|>>|>In a message dated Tue, 9 Apr 2002 M- 4:39:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Daniel H. Brown" <brown@XXXXXX> writes:
>|>>|>
>|>>|>>On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Fish Flowers wrote:
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>>> While we're on the topic, does perforated leather offer any less
>|>>|>>> protection than full leathers? I'm thinking about replacing my current
>|>>|>>> faux-biker jacket (from The Alley in Chicago), and have been looking at
>|>>|>>> Fieldsheer and Vanson stuff. Should I be leery of perf leather, and look
>|>>|>>> mostly at the unperforated stuff?
>|>>|>>>
>|>>|>>> Or will I simply boil come summer?
>|>>|>>>
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>>Vanson has some nice options that have vents in the front. M- Might not be
>|>>|>>race legal, and will be pricey, but, if its a Vanson, you KNOW its going to
>|>>|>>be a solid jacket.
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>>--
>|>>|>>Dan Brown
>|>>|>>brown@XXXXXX
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>>
>|>>
>|>>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:01:34 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:01:19 -0400
From: ScooterFZR@XXXXXX
To: roach@XXXXXX, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re: Perforated Jackets
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Thanks Roach.  I couldn't have said it better myself.  :-)

Scooter

In a message dated Thu, 11 Apr 2002 M- 9:51:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Brian Roach <roach@XXXXXX> writes:

>On Thursday 11 April 2002 05:48, daniel_ex250@XXXXXX wrote:
>
>> You assert the white/black are different as far as keeping you cool,
>> in the relationship to perforated leathers. Do you have any data to
>> support your statement? M- I'm not saying you're wrong nor lying, M- I
>> just like to be scientific and know the basis of the facts I accept.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the color scheme of some things matter as far as
>> temperatures but i'm not willing to blindly accept it makes a
>> difference for everything. M- I suspect it may not make a difference
>> in perforated leather jackets since air isnt' exactly contained.
>> I'd just like to see the evidence to support the theories.
>
>Daniel... um, no offense but... it's basic physics. M- Black things absorb the 
>full spectrum of light waves, white things reflect them. Air doesn't figure 
>into the equation - the material (leather) is hot, and it's in close 
>proximity to your body. M- Sort of like taking a shirt out of the dryer and 
>putting it on, vs. one from your dresser. M- 
>
>A white jacket is going to be cooler... I just don't particularly like white 
>leather :)
>
>- Roach
>
>
>
>

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:14:05 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net> <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman>
Subject: Re: 
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I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident and
has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and the
policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional users.
To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is grounds
to deny a claim.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: Re:


> That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
>
> Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable
> as long as there is permission of use.
>
>



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:25:58 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>,
   "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net> <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman> <01f201c1e18d$35c18d80$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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      Uninsured Motorist Coverage

     Protects you, your resident relatives, and occupants of a covered
vehicle if any of these insured sustain bodily injury, including any
resulting death, in an accident in which the owner or operator of a motor
vehicle who is legally liable does not have insurance.

      Common Exclusions: No coverage for bodily injury/death sustained by
any person while using or occupying a (1) covered vehicle while being used
to carry persons or property for compensation or a fee; (2) a covered
vehicle without the permission of you or a relative; or (3) a non-owned
vehicle without the permission of the owner.

      Return to top



This is from
http://www.progressive.com/shopinfo/definitions.asp#UninsuredMotoristCoverag
e

Progressive web site
----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: Re:


> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident
and
> has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and
the
> policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional users.
> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
> as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is
grounds
> to deny a claim.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is
liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> >
>
>
>



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:37:44 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:43:41 -0400
From: "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX>
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References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net> <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman> <01f201c1e18d$35c18d80$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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However, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the DMV a fee and operate
a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the `60s & `70s the DMV
fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance.  What a great idea!  Allow the folks with
such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go without insurance for a
small fee!!!

Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in VA.

Bill

Paul Wilson wrote:

> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident and
> has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and the
> policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional users.
> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
> as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is grounds
> to deny a claim.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> >


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:37:51 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
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   "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net> <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman> <01f201c1e18d$35c18d80$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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I wanted to add to my quote.

It's not very clear if you are covered by YOUR uninsured motorist
coverage(UMC) or THEIR uninsured policy.  In any case, I think it covers ALL
uninsured parties.

However, one of them will cover you/or them.  Since this policy is required
in MD and I believe in DC and VA as well, then it should be no problem.

If people drive without insurance, they are still covered in MD by MAIF.  I
know that because I was rear-ended by uninsured person once, and MAIF paid
for my car/injury.

It may be smart to have higher limits on UMC if you intend to drive like
that.

Also, consider this:
If you have medical insurance, then for you(at least) it should make very
little difference if you have personal coverage.  And I would submit that
medical insurance is a MUST if you ride a bike.  20,000 minimal that are
required in MD(and usually that is what people get) is not going to amount
for much if you get into an accident on the bike.  The other party(usually
car) is very unlikely to sustain a lot of injuries even if this is your
fault. The property damage is covered by vehicle insurance no matter who is
driving it(obviously legally).

So, as long as bike is covered and legal, then there is no real issues to
talk about :)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:14 PM
Subject: Re:


> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident
and
> has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and
the
> policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional users.
> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
> as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is
grounds
> to deny a claim.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is
liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> >
>
>
>



From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:39:15 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net> <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman> <01f201c1e18d$35c18d80$bb82fea9@palladio1> <02bb01c1e18e$b2418ad0$7d687b3f@ducman>
Subject: Re: 
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No, I'm sorry, you're still mis-reading it.  It's usually lumped in with
"under-insured" motorist coverage.  The uninsured, under-insured does not
refer to the operator of *your* vehicle, it refers to another "at fault"
party out there in the world.  Uninsured coverage is high in this area
because of all the *uninsured scofflaw bozos* running around.

Read the first sentence carefully:

"Protects you, your resident relatives, and occupants of a covered
> vehicle if any of these **insured** sustain bodily injury, including any
> resulting death, in an accident in which the owner or operator of a motor
> vehicle who is legally liable does not have insurance.

Notice who it says the "insured" are.


Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
www.wilsonline.org
Join the VFR750 list >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vfr750
----- Original Message -----
From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>; "dc-cycles list"
<dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:25 PM
Subject: Re:


>       Uninsured Motorist Coverage
>
>      Protects you, your resident relatives, and occupants of a covered
> vehicle if any of these insured sustain bodily injury, including any
> resulting death, in an accident in which the owner or operator of a motor
> vehicle who is legally liable does not have insurance.
>
>       Common Exclusions: No coverage for bodily injury/death sustained by
> any person while using or occupying a (1) covered vehicle while being used
> to carry persons or property for compensation or a fee; (2) a covered
> vehicle without the permission of you or a relative; or (3) a non-owned
> vehicle without the permission of the owner.
>
>       Return to top
>
>
>
> This is from
>
http://www.progressive.com/shopinfo/definitions.asp#UninsuredMotoristCoverag
> e
>
> Progressive web site
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Genna Melamed
> Please note that my email is changing to
> genna@XXXXXX
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
> To: "dc-cycles list" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
>
> > I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
> > uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident
> and
> > has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and
> the
> > policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional
users.
> > To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another
acting
> > as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is
> grounds
> > to deny a claim.
> >
> > Paul in DC
> > 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
> > To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> > Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> > Subject: Re:
> >
> >
> > > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> > >
> > > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is
> liable
> > > as long as there is permission of use.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:41:03 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
To: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX,
   LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: ertangulec@XXXXXX
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--- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get
> insurance.
> 
> Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured
> motorist is liable
> as long as there is permission of use.
> 
> My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal to
> make a "straw"
> vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is anyone
> business....

it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
insurance policy ab initio




> Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a
> friend can be primary
> owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more
> expensive option as
> you may be required to insure both drivers
> 
> The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance. 
> just tell them that
> you have a bike and want to insure it....

i find it interesting that you consider this to be a valid
way of obtaining insurance.  your statements indicate that
you would support hiding something from teh insurer.  as
stephen harris already pointed out, this method could find
the rider WITHOUT ANY COVERAGE AT ALL, even having paid for
it.


--
tg

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:43:12 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:43:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
To: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>, Paul Wilson <pawilson@XXXXXX>,
   dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
In-Reply-To: <02bf01c1e190$5cc4b4e0$7d687b3f@ducman>
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--- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> So, as long as bike is covered and legal, then there is
> no real issues to
> talk about :)

keep my number handy.  you sound as though you'll need
assistance down the line....  ;)


--
tg

http://www.murphygimer.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:48:40 2002
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Uninsured Fee
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:48:43 -0400
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Last time I checked that fee was only $400 for a year.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	William J. Huson [mailto:bhuson@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:44 PM
To:	Paul Wilson
Cc:	dc-cycles list
Subject:	Re: 

However, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the DMV a fee and
operate
a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the `60s & `70s the
DMV
fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance.  What a great idea!  Allow the folks
with
such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go without insurance for
a
small fee!!!

Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in VA.

Bill

Paul Wilson wrote:

> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means.  The
> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident
and
> has no insurance.  The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and
the
> policy based on his driver stats.  Policies differ about occasional users.
> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
> as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is
grounds
> to deny a claim.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
> To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
> Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is
liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> >

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:49:34 2002
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From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
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unless you claim insurance very often, there is no reason for them to find
out.

I didn't say that this is very "legal" way of obtaining insurance.  I simply
stated that this IS one way of doing it.  And it is pretty safe.  When I was
much younger and with not so good driving record I used a bike that was not
titled to me and had my friend's insurance.  This was liability only though.
My point is that it CAN be done in a way where you are covered reasonably
and everything is legal from DOT point of view.




----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
To: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA
GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re:


> --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get
> > insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured
> > motorist is liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> > My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal to
> > make a "straw"
> > vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is anyone
> > business....
>
> it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> insurance policy ab initio
>
>
>
>
> > Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a
> > friend can be primary
> > owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more
> > expensive option as
> > you may be required to insure both drivers
> >
> > The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.
> > just tell them that
> > you have a bike and want to insure it....
>
> i find it interesting that you consider this to be a valid
> way of obtaining insurance.  your statements indicate that
> you would support hiding something from teh insurer.  as
> stephen harris already pointed out, this method could find
> the rider WITHOUT ANY COVERAGE AT ALL, even having paid for
> it.
>
>
> --
> tg
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>



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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:52:45 2002
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	Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:52:39 +0000
From: purdyjeremy@XXXXXX
To: Tuan.Diep@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: starter problem
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:52:39 +0000
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I had a problem like that starting the Suzuki GZ that I 
owned.  I finally figured out that for some reason with 
that bike, if I twisted the throttle at all while I was 
hitting the ignition, the bike would crank and crank and 
crank but never fire.

Without twisting the throttle, (choke on of course) the 
bike would start on the coldest of days instantly.

My Yamaha V-Star is pretty much the exact opposite of 
course...

--
Jeremy Purdy
'00 Yamaha V-Star

>My '95 CBRF3 has trouble starting.  I have to hit the 
>starter several times
>for a few minutes before it fires up.  Adjusting the 
>choke doesn't seem to
>make a difference and I haven't checked the battery 
>yet.  Any
>ideas/solutions?
>Thanks
>Tuan

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 15:53:03 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
To: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX,
   LAURA GRANATO <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: ertangulec@XXXXXX
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oh i hear you.  but as for a "solution" to the problem, i
wouldn't recommend one that could conceivably end up
ruining someone financially.



--- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> unless you claim insurance very often, there is no reason
> for them to find
> out.
> 
> I didn't say that this is very "legal" way of obtaining
> insurance.  I simply
> stated that this IS one way of doing it.  And it is
> pretty safe.  When I was
> much younger and with not so good driving record I used a
> bike that was not
> titled to me and had my friend's insurance.  This was
> liability only though.
> My point is that it CAN be done in a way where you are
> covered reasonably
> and everything is legal from DOT point of view.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> > --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply
> get
> > > insurance.
> > >
> > > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist
> Coverage.
> > > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if
> uninsured
> > > motorist is liable
> > > as long as there is permission of use.
> > >
> > > My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal
> to
> > > make a "straw"
> > > vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is
> anyone
> > > business....
> >
> > it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> > insurance policy ab initio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a
> > > friend can be primary
> > > owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more
> > > expensive option as
> > > you may be required to insure both drivers
> > >
> > > The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.
> > > just tell them that
> > > you have a bike and want to insure it....
> >
> > i find it interesting that you consider this to be a
> valid
> > way of obtaining insurance.  your statements indicate
> that
> > you would support hiding something from teh insurer. 
> as
> > stephen harris already pointed out, this method could
> find
> > the rider WITHOUT ANY COVERAGE AT ALL, even having paid
> for
> > it.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 16:01:21 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:01:54 -0700
To: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>,
   "LAURA GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
From: Stephen Harris <harris@XXXXXX>
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Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
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At 02:00 PM 4/11/02 -0400, Genna Melamed wrote:
>Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
>And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable
>as long as there is permission of use.

	You've got some of this confused.  UM, UMPD & UMBI is only coverage from a uninsured motorist that is found responsible for causing damage or injury to you, your vehicle, or your passenger.  Doesn't help you for theft or single vehicle accidents.  Also, UM coverage this is not automatic.  There are a series of rather boring investigative issues that need to be resolved, the scope of which goes beyond my threshold of pain in e-mail, but suffice to say that there are plenty of ways your carrier can deny coverage under UM when a responsible tortfessor is uninsured.  A BIG example is a material misrepresentation on the original application for insurance, although I seem to recall that MD has statues making the scope of mis-rep narrower for UM than for normal first party coverage, which is a slam dunk in this case.  

>My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal to make a "straw"
>vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is anyone business....

	I kinda feel the same way about "straw" purchase of firearms, and no I am not being sarcastic.  There is the world the way it is, and the way we would like it.

>The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.  just tell them that
>you have a bike and want to insure it....


	I have so little time for e-mail these days.  Honestly, I only read about 1-2% of the volume on this list, normally I just text search for the issues that I, as a good citizen of the net, have a duty to help people with on this list.  

	Typically I only chime in on issues involving the MARRC school, local racing, obscure mechanical issues, or insurance as it related to motorcyclist on this list.  I have joyfully squandered most of my adult life in dealing in these areas as both hobby and profession.  

	Most of this experience can be boiled down to simple axioms; buy the cheapest racebike your ego will allow, check you brake lever feel before charging down to turn one, don't trust stock chain alignment markers, use new gaskets upon rebuild, and don't lie to the insurance man.  

	Insurance companies don't check to see if you are lying when you take out the policy.  They check when you have a claim that you would like paid.  Their ability to find lies are not like the INS, DMV or IRS or some other bloated bureaucracy.  There are HUGE profits to be made by finding those lies, and when money is to be made, efficiency is found.  They will likely find that lie, and you will be left with a policy that is void.

	Save yourself a lot of grief, don't try to out brake the insurance men.

	S

Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?
Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm

From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 16:13:03 2002
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Message-ID: <030e01c1e195$47b86c90$7d687b3f@ducman>
From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
To: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
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Hey, owning a motorcycle can "ruining someone financially."

Remember, he's a diplomat...

it's a some level of risk...  If there is a way with less risk, then sure,
by all means use it.  otherwise it's a choice between not getting a bike and
have no risk, or buying a bike and risk insurance fraud.

anyway, this was my .02

----------------------------------------------------------------
Genna Melamed
Please note that my email is changing to
genna@XXXXXX
----------------------------------------------------------------



----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
To: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA
GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:53 PM
Subject: Re:


> oh i hear you.  but as for a "solution" to the problem, i
> wouldn't recommend one that could conceivably end up
> ruining someone financially.
>
>
>
> --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > unless you claim insurance very often, there is no reason
> > for them to find
> > out.
> >
> > I didn't say that this is very "legal" way of obtaining
> > insurance.  I simply
> > stated that this IS one way of doing it.  And it is
> > pretty safe.  When I was
> > much younger and with not so good driving record I used a
> > bike that was not
> > titled to me and had my friend's insurance.  This was
> > liability only though.
> > My point is that it CAN be done in a way where you are
> > covered reasonably
> > and everything is legal from DOT point of view.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply
> > get
> > > > insurance.
> > > >
> > > > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist
> > Coverage.
> > > > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if
> > uninsured
> > > > motorist is liable
> > > > as long as there is permission of use.
> > > >
> > > > My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal
> > to
> > > > make a "straw"
> > > > vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is
> > anyone
> > > > business....
> > >
> > > it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> > > insurance policy ab initio
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a
> > > > friend can be primary
> > > > owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more
> > > > expensive option as
> > > > you may be required to insure both drivers
> > > >
> > > > The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.
> > > > just tell them that
> > > > you have a bike and want to insure it....
> > >
> > > i find it interesting that you consider this to be a
> > valid
> > > way of obtaining insurance.  your statements indicate
> > that
> > > you would support hiding something from teh insurer.
> > as
> > > stephen harris already pointed out, this method could
> > find
> > > the rider WITHOUT ANY COVERAGE AT ALL, even having paid
> > for
> > > it.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>



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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 16:16:45 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
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--- Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX> wrote:
> --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply
> get
> > insurance.
> > 
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist
> Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured
> > motorist is liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> > 
> > My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal to
> > make a "straw"
> > vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is anyone
> > business....
> 
> it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> insurance policy ab initio

sorry.  pursuant to list rules i have slapped myself for
using latin....




--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 16:20:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
To: Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: ertangulec@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <030e01c1e195$47b86c90$7d687b3f@ducman>
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--- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> Hey, owning a motorcycle can "ruining someone
> financially."

not with the PROPER insurance coverage



> Remember, he's a diplomat...

did diplomats recently become judgment-proof?  i don't
think so....


 
> it's a some level of risk...  If there is a way with less
> risk, then sure,
> by all means use it.  otherwise it's a choice between not
> getting a bike and
> have no risk, or buying a bike and risk insurance fraud.

or selling the car, buying a bike and obtaining insurance
legally



> anyway, this was my .02

and here is your change.....  ;)



--
tg

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 17:09:37 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:09:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Milan Talreja <milan_talreja@XXXXXX>
Subject: Unsuscribe Please
To: milan_talreja@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles list <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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--0-628293205-1018559376=:66709
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  "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote: However, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the DMV a fee and operate
a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the `60s & `70s the DMV
fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance. What a great idea! Allow the folks with
such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go without insurance for a
small fee!!!

Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in VA.

Bill

Paul Wilson wrote:

> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means. The
> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident and
> has no insurance. The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and the
> policy based on his driver stats. Policies differ about occasional users.
> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting
> as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is grounds
> to deny a claim.
>
> Paul in DC
> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Genna Melamed" 
> To: ; "LAURA GRANATO" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re:
>
> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
> >
> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable
> > as long as there is permission of use.
> >
> >



Regards,

Milan Talreja

313-717-5658



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
--0-628293205-1018559376=:66709
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P>
<P>&nbsp; <B><I>"William J. Huson" &lt;bhuson@XXXXXX&gt;</I></B> wrote: 
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">However, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the DMV a fee and operate<BR>a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the `60s &amp; `70s the DMV<BR>fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance. What a great idea! Allow the folks with<BR>such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go without insurance for a<BR>small fee!!!<BR><BR>Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in VA.<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>Paul Wilson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means. The<BR>&gt; uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident and<BR>&gt; has no insurance. The primary user of the bike needs to be insured and the<BR>&gt; policy based on his driver stats. Policies differ about occasional users.<BR>&gt; To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another acting<BR>&gt; as the *real* primary user is insurance fraud, it seems to me and is grounds<BR>&gt; to deny a claim.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Paul in DC<BR>&gt; 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Genna Melamed" <GENNA@XXXXXX><BR>&gt; To: <DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO" <LGRANATO@XXXXXX><BR>&gt; Cc: <ERTANGULEC@XXXXXX><BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.<BR>&gt; &gt; And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist is liable<BR>&gt; &gt; as long as there is permission of use.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><P>Regards,</P>
<P>Milan Talreja</P>
<P>313-717-5658</P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="$rd_url/welcome/?http://taxes.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Tax Center</a> - online filing with TurboTax
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 17:11:15 2002
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From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
To: genna@XXXXXX, t_gimer@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: ertangulec@XXXXXX
Subject: Re:
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:59:24 -0400
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>Remember, he's a diplomat...
>

Diplomat or no diplomat, he still has to abide by all the laws in his guest 
country.  Yeah he has diplomatc immunity, so what, it can only save him in 
certain cases, he still has to pay fines and tickets.  If he doesn't the 
State Department gets on the Embassy to hold the person financially 
responsible.  If he refuses to pay, he loses his license, just like any of 
us who aren't diplomats.

I have been on both sides of this, been a diplomat and am now a local at the 
Embassy, but they don't get the breaks they used to.

And the State Department requires you to provide proof of insurance when you 
register a vehicle to get your diplomatic tags.

Natasha


>From: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>
>To: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>CC: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re:
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:12:56 -0400
>
>Hey, owning a motorcycle can "ruining someone financially."
>
>Remember, he's a diplomat...
>
>it's a some level of risk...  If there is a way with less risk, then sure,
>by all means use it.  otherwise it's a choice between not getting a bike 
>and
>have no risk, or buying a bike and risk insurance fraud.
>
>anyway, this was my .02
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Genna Melamed
>Please note that my email is changing to
>genna@XXXXXX
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Gimer" <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
>To: "Genna Melamed" <genna@XXXXXX>; <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>; "LAURA
>GRANATO" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>Cc: <ertangulec@XXXXXX>
>Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:53 PM
>Subject: Re:
>
>
> > oh i hear you.  but as for a "solution" to the problem, i
> > wouldn't recommend one that could conceivably end up
> > ruining someone financially.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > unless you claim insurance very often, there is no reason
> > > for them to find
> > > out.
> > >
> > > I didn't say that this is very "legal" way of obtaining
> > > insurance.  I simply
> > > stated that this IS one way of doing it.  And it is
> > > pretty safe.  When I was
> > > much younger and with not so good driving record I used a
> > > bike that was not
> > > titled to me and had my friend's insurance.  This was
> > > liability only though.
> > > My point is that it CAN be done in a way where you are
> > > covered reasonably
> > > and everything is legal from DOT point of view.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >
> > > > --- Genna Melamed <genna@XXXXXX> wrote:
> > > > > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply
> > > get
> > > > > insurance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist
> > > Coverage.
> > > > > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if
> > > uninsured
> > > > > motorist is liable
> > > > > as long as there is permission of use.
> > > > >
> > > > > My friend dealer actually told me that it's illegal
> > > to
> > > > > make a "straw"
> > > > > vehicle purchase.  Though I don't see how it is
> > > anyone
> > > > > business....
> > > >
> > > > it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> > > > insurance policy ab initio
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Another option is to have CO-OWNERS.  That is fine, a
> > > > > friend can be primary
> > > > > owner, but Anton, primary insured.(this may be a more
> > > > > expensive option as
> > > > > you may be required to insure both drivers
> > > > >
> > > > > The trick is to NOT EXPLAIN all of this to insurance.
> > > > > just tell them that
> > > > > you have a bike and want to insure it....
> > > >
> > > > i find it interesting that you consider this to be a
> > > valid
> > > > way of obtaining insurance.  your statements indicate
> > > that
> > > > you would support hiding something from teh insurer.
> > > as
> > > > stephen harris already pointed out, this method could
> > > find
> > > > the rider WITHOUT ANY COVERAGE AT ALL, even having paid
> > > for
> > > > it.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >
>
>
>
>#################################################################
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 17:19:00 2002
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And since I just so happen to have access to the Name Check database
upon which ALL visa's and passports are checked I can ah, like flag him
as an undesirable. It would be so easy to do. clickety, clackety... Or
maybe he just needs a good larting.

--- Natasha Louis <tashalouis@XXXXXX> wrote:
> >Remember, he's a diplomat...
> >
> 
> Diplomat or no diplomat, he still has to abide by all the laws in his
> guest country.
...
> I have been on both sides of this, been a diplomat and am now a local
> at the 
> Embassy, but they don't get the breaks they used to.


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:00:37 2002
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--------------B47D8ED6277E66A5D529E343
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oh my, what a mysterious post.  Does Milan wish to unsuscribe?  Or is
Milan attempting to act as a moderator?  I'm so confused :-)

Bill

Milan Talreja wrote:

>
>
>   "William J. Huson" <bhuson@XXXXXX> wrote:
>
>      However, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the
>      DMV a fee and operate
>      a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the
>      `60s & `70s the DMV
>      fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance. What a great idea!
>      Allow the folks with
>      such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go
>      without insurance for a
>      small fee!!!
>
>      Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in
>      VA.
>
>      Bill
>
>      Paul Wilson wrote:
>
>      > I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage
>      means. The
>      > uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist
>      causes an accident and
>      > has no insurance. The primary user of the bike needs to be
>      insured and the
>      > policy based on his driver stats. Policies differ about
>      occasional users.
>      > To have one person listed and rated as the primary user
>      and another acting
>      > as the *real* primary user i! s insurance fraud, it seems
>      to me and is grounds
>      > to deny a claim.
>      >
>      > Paul in DC
>      > 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>      >
>      > ----- Original Message -----
>      > From: "Genna Melamed"
>      > To: ; "LAURA GRANATO"
>      > Cc:
>      > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
>      > Subject: Re:
>      >
>      > > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get
>      insurance.
>      > >
>      > > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist
>      Coverage.
>      > > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured
>      motorist is liable
>      > > as long as there is permission of use.
>      > >
>      > >
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Milan Talreja
>
> 313-717-5658
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
Oh my, what a mysterious post.&nbsp; Does Milan wish to unsuscribe?&nbsp;
Or is Milan attempting to act as a moderator?&nbsp; I'm so confused :-)
<P>Bill
<P>Milan Talreja wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
<P>&nbsp; <B><I>"William J. Huson" &lt;bhuson@XXXXXX></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">However,
in the Commonwealth of Virginia, one can pay the DMV a fee and operate
<BR>a motor vehicle bareback, as in NO insurance. Back in the `60s &amp;
`70s the DMV
<BR>fee was cheaper than SR-22 insurance. What a great idea! Allow the
folks with
<BR>such shitty driving records that they need SR-22 to go without insurance
for a
<BR>small fee!!!
<P>Thus the definate need for "Uninsured Motorist" coverage in VA.
<P>Bill
<P>Paul Wilson wrote:
<P>> I don't think that's what "uninsured motorist" coverage means. The
<BR>> uninsured coverage covers *you* when another motorist causes an accident
and
<BR>> has no insurance. The primary user of the bike needs to be insured
and the
<BR>> policy based on his driver stats. Policies differ about occasional
users.
<BR>> To have one person listed and rated as the primary user and another
acting
<BR>> as the *real* primary user i! s insurance fraud, it seems to me and
is grounds
<BR>> to deny a claim.
<BR>>
<BR>> Paul in DC
<BR>> 95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
<BR>>
<BR>> ----- Original Message -----
<BR>> From: "Genna Melamed"&nbsp;<GENNA@XXXXXX>
<BR>> To:&nbsp;<DC-CYCLES@XXXXXX>; "LAURA GRANATO"&nbsp;<LGRANATO@XXXXXX>
<BR>> Cc:&nbsp;<ERTANGULEC@XXXXXX>
<BR>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:00 PM
<BR>> Subject: Re:
<BR>>
<BR>> > That friend that is buying a bike for him can simply get insurance.
<BR>> >
<BR>> > Anton would be covered under Uninsured Motorist Coverage.
<BR>> > And yes, I checked, this WILL cover anyone if uninsured motorist
is liable
<BR>> > as long as there is permission of use.
<BR>> >
<BR>> ></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BR>&nbsp;
<P>Regards,
<P>Milan Talreja
<P>313-717-5658
<BR>&nbsp;
<P>
<HR size=1><B>Do You Yahoo!?</B>
<BR><A HREF="$rd_url/welcome/?http://taxes.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Tax Center</A>
- online filing with TurboTax</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>

--------------B47D8ED6277E66A5D529E343--


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:13:21 2002
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From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
In-Reply-To: <02bf01c1e190$5cc4b4e0$7d687b3f@ducman>
References: <20020411062118.24749.c002-h015.c002.wm@mail.peoplepc.com.criticalpath.net>
 <029501c1e182$c7f3b440$7d687b3f@ducman>
 <01f201c1e18d$35c18d80$bb82fea9@palladio1>
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At 03:37 PM 4/11/2002, Genna Melamed wrote:
>I wanted to add to my quote.
>
>It's not very clear if you are covered by YOUR uninsured motorist
>coverage(UMC) or THEIR uninsured policy.  In any case, I think it covers ALL
>uninsured parties.
>
>However, one of them will cover you/or them.  Since this policy is required
>in MD and I believe in DC and VA as well, then it should be no problem.

Sorry, but no. Paul described it precisely and correctly.UMC covers the 
insured and his passengers or his authorized drivers of the insured vehicle 
in the event of an accident for which the other vehicle's driver, who does 
not have appropriate coverage, is at fault. Depending on the policy and the 
locale, it may or may not cover operators of your vehicle who do not appear 
on the policy.

If you have lied to your insurance company about the primary operator or 
other parameters of operation, they can void your coverage. And guess who 
probably has greater resources of it goes to litigation?

-- Larry






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Message-ID: <011b01c1e1a6$aacf0800$bb82fea9@palladio1>
From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <LAW2-F144C9vBGtWva700001c61@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re:
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:16:07 -0400
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There was that case in Fairfax where a Saudi diplomat tried to stiff a
building contractor citing that the Circuit Court didn't have any
jurisdiction over him.  I'm not sure how it was resolved.

I'm not sure to "have to abide" by the laws. If "have to" you mean that they
can be found persona non grata and be booted out, yes, but they are not
under the same jeopardy of loss of life, liberty and property for
law-breaking as ordinary joes.  The drunk who ran over a teenage girl at
Dupont Circle and killed her served time, but only because the Embassy of
Georgia waived immunity.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>

> >Remember, he's a diplomat...
> >
>
> Diplomat or no diplomat, he still has to abide by all the laws in his
guest
> country.  Yeah he has diplomatc immunity, so what, it can only save him in
> certain cases, he still has to pay fines and tickets.  If he doesn't the
> State Department gets on the Embassy to hold the person financially
> responsible.  If he refuses to pay, he loses his license, just like any of
> us who aren't diplomats.
>
> I have been on both sides of this, been a diplomat and am now a local at
the
> Embassy, but they don't get the breaks they used to.
>
> And the State Department requires you to provide proof of insurance when
you
> register a vehicle to get your diplomatic tags.
>
> Natasha


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:27:35 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: woops forgot to add that
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:27:28 +0100
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I am not a cage owner.


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:30:20 2002
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Subject: Re: 
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At 04:12 PM 4/11/2002, Genna Melamed wrote:
>Hey, owning a motorcycle can "ruining someone financially."
>
>Remember, he's a diplomat...

This seems like a really good deal for the diplomat: gets to ride, gets 
covered by someone else, doesn't need to care about U.S. "credit rating", 
can try to claim immunity, can try to flee the country, etc.

Also seems like a really risky deal for the "friend of diplomat" should it 
all go bad: possible trouble with the DMV, possible long-term trouble with 
insurers, possible liability problems leading to possible bankruptcy, 
possible criminal charges, etc.

In short, stuck holding the bag in that "200 to 1" event that some tourist 
steps in front of a moving motorcycle, for example.

What's the "up" side, again?

My take is:

  - hard-core rider?
  - only allowed one vehicle?
  - LOSE THE CAR!!!

  /// Rob


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:35:38 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: another try: insurance PLEASE, really!
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:24:22 +0100
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Markel (merkel, whatever) is the only affordable insurance I could find as a 
DC resident with my previous bike insurance records in another country they 
charge me above a grand.  Is there anyone who has good tips? i have tried 
geico, progressive, state farm, other stuff, no one would insure me.  One 
asked 2 grands: how nice of them.


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:40:13 2002
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From: <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Cc: 
Subject: Need help - O/T

Apologies in advance, for the minimal moto content

I need help moving some bulky stuff

Wife & I are moving about 5 minutes from Mt. Vernon, scheduled for 
April 27th.  It's only about 10 minutes from my current house, and I 
don't need help moving house to house, just with some of the bulky 
stuff that we have.  Since we're close, we should have the satellite 
(complete with all channels I can get), TV & Stereo hooked up for 
entertainment purposes, and we'll gladly provide food & beverages.  
       
If you have absolutely no interest in helping, but wouldn't mind the 
food & beverages you're welcome as long as you bring something...

Firearms will be secured for the move, so the only condition is that 
you not be bothered by our 2 Golden Retrievers...

Anyone that may be able to help please let me know off list

Thanks !
Dave   


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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:47:30 2002
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At 07:01 PM 4/11/2002, Stephen Harris wrote:

>....when a responsible tortfessor is uninsured.

Perhaps such a tortfessor should be larted with knobkerries.

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 18:47:32 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:22:02 -0400
To: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: 
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At 04:16 PM 4/11/2002, Tom Gimer wrote:
> > it's called misrepresentation.... and it can void an
> > insurance policy ab initio
>
>sorry.  pursuant to list rules i have slapped myself for
>using latin....


Omnus gallus Gimeri in partes tres divisa est.

-- Larry







From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 20:25:33 2002
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From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:25:26 +0100
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My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew insurance.  I currently 
have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a cage, i am 36, and my 
US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since 2001.  I tried all the 
major companies: allstate, state farm, geico, progressive...  all of them.  
No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in this list that has 
insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this high?
tia
pierfrancesco
vfr 98

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 20:29:34 2002
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laura,
\
i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him.  then 
he will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes.  i guess you have 
already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate was a bust.  

why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on this 
site as per usual.

give it a rest and make it legal in all ways then we won't have to hear about 
all your problems!!!!!!!!!  

and waste the site

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>laura,
<BR>\
<BR>i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him. &nbsp;then he will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes. &nbsp;i guess you have already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate was a bust. &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on this site as per usual.
<BR>
<BR>give it a rest and make it legal in all ways then we won't have to hear about all your problems!!!!!!!!! &nbsp;
<BR>
<BR>and waste the site</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 20:36:18 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:37:44 -0400
To: RMccre5861@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: re:  laura ingratio's dilemma
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<html>
At 08:29 PM 4/11/2002, RMccre5861@XXXXXX wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite><font face="arial" size=2>laura, <br>
\ <br>
i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry
him.&nbsp; then he will be able to have as many vehicles as he
wishes.&nbsp; i guess you have already moved on to your new man anton
since your last soul mate was a bust.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
<br>
why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on
this site as per usual. </font></blockquote><br>
Jealous, are we?<br>
<br>
You know, if you go back to WebTV, they'll let you use the shift key and
tell you what a site is. Who knows, they might even let you sign your
trolls.<br>
<br>
-- Larry<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</html>


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 20:56:16 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: laura ingratio's dilemma
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:52:22 -0400
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  laura,
  \
  i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him.
then he will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes.  i guess you
have already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate
was a bust.



      <DJY>  I've dished and taken some pretty serious abuse, and we've
had some good flame fests here at DCC, but c'mon - that was an uncalled
for cheap shot.


  why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on
this site as per usual.


      <DJY>  She may not know $hit about braking <g>, but she's at least
on topic (more so than me most of the time), and trying to help a
potential biker...
  What have you brought to the list lately ?




  Dave Yates
  '90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
  LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
  http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">


<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2>laura, <BR>\ <BR>i mean really =
just take=20
  the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him. &nbsp;then he will be =
able to=20
  have as many vehicles as he wishes. &nbsp;i guess you have already =
moved on to=20
  your new man anton since your last soul mate was a=20
  bust.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<SPAN class=3D260374600-12042002><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;DJY&gt;&nbsp; I've =
dished and=20
  taken some pretty serious abuse, and we've had some good flame fests =
here at=20
  DCC, but c'mon - that was an uncalled for cheap shot.&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;</SPAN><BR><BR>why else would you be =
making=20
  everyone get into such a stupid matter on this site as per=20
  usual.&nbsp;<BR><SPAN class=3D260374600-12042002><FONT=20
  color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;DJY&gt;&nbsp; She =
may=20
  not&nbsp;know $hit about braking&nbsp;&lt;g&gt;, but she's at least on =
topic=20
  (more so than me most of the time), and trying to help a potential=20
  biker...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D260374600-12042002>What have=20
  you brought to the list lately =
?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D260374600-12042002>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Dave Yates<BR>'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'<BR>LTT =
customized=20
  M96G EII 'Little Friend'<BR><A target=3D_blank=20
  href=3D"http://www.radix.net/~sdave/">http://www.radix.net/~sdave/</A> =

  </FONT></P></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:02:05 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: "'Pierre C'" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:59:59 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <F225AjfUKWTa9tfmKsX00000c1c@hotmail.com>

Frankie pleaded -

My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew insurance.  I
currently
have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a cage, i am 36, and
my
US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since 2001.  I tried all
the
major companies: allstate, state farm, geico, progressive...  all of
them.
No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in this list that
has
insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this high?


	<DJY> Sadly, that's the way it works here...  *Generally speaking* a
short driving history relegates you to 'risk' insurance carriers.
You're complicating the matter by being foreign (not meant as a slap at
you, merely an observation that the companies are obviously using
against you), own a bike and are in a high vandalism & theft city.

A couple of things you can do

register as a commercial vehicle maybe ?
raise your (at least collision) deductible
move to a lower crime suburb
ride liability only
get a cheaper bike to insure
buckle down & pay it...

I feel your pain, I got priced out of all state & State Farm was the
cheapest at about twice what I was paying last year...

If you've gone through the phone book & called at least 2 agents from
all the major companies, I'd say you've already gotten your answer...

Good luck & let us know how it turns out.


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:02:18 2002
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From: "Jeannette Zell" <gingerdc9@XXXXXX>
To: RMccre5861@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: re: laura ingratio's dilemma
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:50:55 -0400
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Wow, that was really rude.  :-(
And you didn't even get her name right!

- Jeannette
  '86 VFR 700 F2
  http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/speedway/3081


>From: RMccre5861@XXXXXX
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: re:  laura ingratio's dilemma
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 20:29:01 EDT
>
>laura,
>\
>i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him.  then
>he will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes.  i guess you have
>already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate was a 
>bust.
>
>why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on this
>site as per usual.
>
>give it a rest and make it legal in all ways then we won't have to hear 
>about
>all your problems!!!!!!!!!
>
>and waste the site




_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldM-^Rs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:03:56 2002
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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: <RMccre5861@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <18e.648e136.29e7844d@aol.com>
Subject: Re: laura ingratio's dilemma
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MOTHER FUCKING WHAT THE FUCK?????????????????????????????
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: RMccre5861@XXXXXX=20
  To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX=20
  Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:29 PM
  Subject: re: laura ingratio's dilemma


  laura,=20
  \=20
  i mean really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him.  =
then he will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes.  i guess you =
have already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate =
was a bust.  =20

  why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter on =
this site as per usual.=20

  give it a rest and make it legal in all ways then we won't have to =
hear about all your problems!!!!!!!!!  =20

  and waste the site=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>MOTHER FUCKING WHAT THE=20
FUCK?????????????????????????????</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DRMccre5861@XXXXXX=20
  href=3D"mailto:RMccre5861@XXXXXX">RMccre5861@XXXXXX</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddc-cycles@XXXXXX=20
  href=3D"mailto:dc-cycles@XXXXXX">dc-cycles@XXXXXX</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 11, 2002 =
8:29=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> re: laura ingratio's=20
  dilemma</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>laura, =
<BR>\ <BR>i mean=20
  really just take the guy out of him big dilemma and marry him. =
&nbsp;then he=20
  will be able to have as many vehicles as he wishes. &nbsp;i guess you =
have=20
  already moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate was a =
bust.=20
  &nbsp; <BR><BR>why else would you be making everyone get into such a =
stupid=20
  matter on this site as per usual. <BR><BR>give it a rest and make it =
legal in=20
  all ways then we won't have to hear about all your problems!!!!!!!!! =
&nbsp;=20
  <BR><BR>and waste the site</FONT> </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:05:31 2002
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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <000201c1e1bc$7e108e40$b781c0cf@nih.gov>
Subject: Re: laura ingratio's dilemma
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        <DJY>  I've dished and taken some pretty serious abuse, and =
we've had some good flame fests here at DCC, but c'mon - that was an =
uncalled for cheap shot.   =20

    I swear to god if I find out who the fuck posted that, they will rue =
the day that made that post. =20


    why else would you be making everyone get into such a stupid matter =
on this site as per usual.=20
    =20

        <DJY>  She may not know $hit about braking <g>, but she's at =
least on topic (more so than me most of the time), and trying to help a =
potential biker...
    What have you brought to the list lately=20

    Yea, and they are so brave they posted their name, too, huh Dave?  =
Thanks for being in my corner for once! LOL <g>

    LAG

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <BLOCKQUOTE>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;DJY&gt;&nbsp; I've =
dished=20
    and taken some pretty serious abuse, and we've had some good flame =
fests=20
    here at DCC, but c'mon - that was an uncalled for cheap=20
    shot.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D260374600-12042002>I swear to=20
    god if I find out who the fuck posted that, they will rue the day =
that made=20
    that post.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN><BR><BR>why else would you be =
making=20
    everyone get into such a stupid matter on this site as per=20
    usual.&nbsp;<BR><SPAN class=3D260374600-12042002><FONT=20
    color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;DJY&gt;&nbsp; She =
may=20
    not&nbsp;know $hit about braking&nbsp;&lt;g&gt;, but she's at least =
on topic=20
    (more so than me most of the time), and trying to help a potential=20
    biker...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D260374600-12042002>What have=20
    you brought to the list lately </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D260374600-12042002>Yea, and=20
    they are so brave they posted their name, too, huh Dave?&nbsp; =
Thanks for=20
    being in my corner for once! LOL =
&lt;g&gt;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D260374600-12042002></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
    =
class=3D260374600-12042002>LAG</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></B=
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:07:09 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <F225AjfUKWTa9tfmKsX00000c1c@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
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Well there's always insurance fraud, today's topic du jour.  :)  Have you
tried working with an agent?  Taking the MSF ERC will usually earn you at
least a 10% discount depending on the company.  Every little bit helps.   I
have Markel.  You could try increasing your deductible.  I have mine set
pretty high.  What can I say.  Basically bike insurance in DC is a tough nut
if you have a newer bike and fragile bodywork.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP


> My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew insurance.  I currently
> have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a cage, i am 36, and my
> US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since 2001.  I tried all
the
> major companies: allstate, state farm, geico, progressive...  all of them.
> No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in this list that has
> insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this high?
> tia
> pierfrancesco
> vfr 98
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>



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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: <RMccre5861@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <18e.648e136.29e7844d@aol.com>
Subject: Re: laura ingratio's dilemma
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>>i guess you have already moved on to your new man anton since your =
last soul mate was a bust.  =20

no, actually, anton is a friend of a guy that I work with.  Can't say =
I've ever met the guy. But I am always willing to help out someone =
trying to ride.

And hmmmm, my soul mate was a bust? You seem to know so much about me, =
huh?  How exactly was it a bust?  Please, inquiring minds want to know.  =
Today is not the day you want to mess with me you little fuck.

LAG




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<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>&gt;&gt;i guess you =
have already=20
moved on to your new man anton since your last soul mate was a =
bust.&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>no, actually, anton is =
a friend of=20
a guy that I work with.&nbsp; Can't say I've ever met the guy. But I am =
always=20
willing to help out someone trying to ride.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>And hmmmm, my soul mate =
was a bust?=20
You seem to know so much about me, huh?&nbsp; How exactly was it a =
bust?&nbsp;=20
Please, inquiring minds want to know.&nbsp; Today is not the day you =
want to=20
mess with me you little fuck.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>LAG</DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:16:29 2002
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On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:

> sorry.  pursuant to list rules i have slapped myself for
> using latin....
> 
Tu es stultior quam asinus!
Oops my bad. 

smack,
Hugh


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:27:54 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:27:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Glenn Dysart <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: laura ingratio's dilemma
To: Laura Granato <lgranato@XXXXXX>, RMccre5861@XXXXXX,
   dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Someone hit your hot button it seems... I've never
seen you this way Laura.

Glenn

--- Laura Granato <lgranato@XXXXXX> wrote:
> And hmmmm, my soul mate was a bust? You seem to know
> so much about me, huh?  How exactly was it a bust? 
> Please, inquiring minds want to know.  Today is not
> the day you want to mess with me you little fuck.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:30:06 2002
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Reply-To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <rdtesq@XXXXXX>
From: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <rdtesq@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Petty Disputes
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:29:49 -0400
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I used to advise fellow Virginia motorcyclists to join this list to keep =
up with the local MC community and perhaps learn about planned group =
rides (do you remember those?) and events such as Bike Night.  I am now =
hesitant to do so.  Why don't some of you consider resolving your =
disputes privately with each other.  If I am interested in hearing about =
someone's love life I would rather read about it in the National =
Enquirer.  I thought topics on this list were to pertain to our common =
love for motorcycles.  It seems that flame wars have taken over.  As =
Rodney King once said:  Can't we all just get along?  I guess the answer =
is "no".  Not a sermon, just a thought.

Roy D. Turner, Esq.
www.cfolaw.com

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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I used to advise fellow Virginia =
motorcyclists to=20
join this list to keep up with the local MC community and perhaps learn =
about=20
planned group rides (do you remember those?) and events such as Bike=20
Night.&nbsp; I am now hesitant to do so.&nbsp; Why don't some of you=20
consider&nbsp;resolving your disputes privately with each other.&nbsp; =
If I am=20
interested in hearing about someone's love life I would rather read =
about it in=20
the National Enquirer.&nbsp; I thought topics on this list were to =
pertain to=20
our common love for motorcycles.&nbsp; It seems that flame wars have =
taken=20
over.&nbsp; As Rodney King once said:&nbsp; Can't we all just get =
along?&nbsp; I=20
guess the answer is "no".&nbsp; Not a sermon, just a =
thought.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roy D. Turner, Esq.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.cfolaw.com">www.cfolaw.com</A></FONT></DIV></BODY></HT=
ML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:37:21 2002
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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: "Glenn Dysart" <glenn_dysart@XXXXXX>, <RMccre5861@XXXXXX>,
   <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <20020412012747.28927.qmail@web11504.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: laura ingratio's dilemma
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> Someone hit your hot button it seems... I've never
> seen you this way Laura.
>
You're right, Glenn.  This is very out of character for me, but I'll tell
you, whoever did this has picked the wrong day to mess with me.  I have
enough going on in my life that I don't need to deal with someone taking
cheap shots at my personal life.

Laura


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:39:33 2002
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References: <000a01c1e1c1$8a0b0400$b33d4144@frbgva.adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
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  I used to advise fellow Virginia motorcyclists to join this list to =
keep up with the local MC community and perhaps learn about planned =
group rides (do you remember those?) and events such as Bike Night.  I =
am now hesitant to do so.  Why don't some of you consider resolving your =
disputes privately with each other.  If I am interested in hearing about =
someone's love life I would rather read about it in the National =
Enquirer.  I thought topics on this list were to pertain to our common =
love for motorcycles.  It seems that flame wars have taken over.  As =
Rodney King once said:  Can't we all just get along?  I guess the answer =
is "no".  Not a sermon, just a thought.

  Roy: Please do not let this taint your view of the list.  I have no =
idea who made that comment and why it was broadcast over the entire =
list.  My personal life if private, but apparently someone wants to make =
light of a situation that they shouldn't be involved in.

  Laura

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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4616.200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I used to advise fellow Virginia =
motorcyclists to=20
  join this list to keep up with the local MC community and perhaps =
learn about=20
  planned group rides (do you remember those?) and events such as Bike=20
  Night.&nbsp; I am now hesitant to do so.&nbsp; Why don't some of you=20
  consider&nbsp;resolving your disputes privately with each other.&nbsp; =
If I am=20
  interested in hearing about someone's love life I would rather read =
about it=20
  in the National Enquirer.&nbsp; I thought topics on this list were to =
pertain=20
  to our common love for motorcycles.&nbsp; It seems that flame wars =
have taken=20
  over.&nbsp; As Rodney King once said:&nbsp; Can't we all just get =
along?&nbsp;=20
  I guess the answer is "no".&nbsp; Not a sermon, just a =
thought.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Roy: Please do not let this taint =
your view of=20
  the list.&nbsp; I have no idea who made that comment and why it was =
broadcast=20
  over the entire list.&nbsp; My personal life if private, but =
apparently=20
  someone wants to make light of a situation that they shouldn't be =
involved=20
  in.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>Laura</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:46:30 2002
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From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
To: pawilson@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Re:
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:45:23 -0400
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With the Croatian diplomat, if he didn't serve time in the US, he would have 
been sent home to serve time there.

I know that in DUI/DWI cases, if a diplomat is caught, usually they are sent 
home immediately by their Embassy and their respective government deals with 
them upon their return back to their country of origin.

Natasha


>From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
>To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: Re:
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:16:07 -0400
>
>There was that case in Fairfax where a Saudi diplomat tried to stiff a
>building contractor citing that the Circuit Court didn't have any
>jurisdiction over him.  I'm not sure how it was resolved.
>
>I'm not sure to "have to abide" by the laws. If "have to" you mean that 
>they
>can be found persona non grata and be booted out, yes, but they are not
>under the same jeopardy of loss of life, liberty and property for
>law-breaking as ordinary joes.  The drunk who ran over a teenage girl at
>Dupont Circle and killed her served time, but only because the Embassy of
>Georgia waived immunity.
>
>Paul in DC
>95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
>
> > >Remember, he's a diplomat...
> > >
> >
> > Diplomat or no diplomat, he still has to abide by all the laws in his
>guest
> > country.  Yeah he has diplomatc immunity, so what, it can only save him 
>in
> > certain cases, he still has to pay fines and tickets.  If he doesn't the
> > State Department gets on the Embassy to hold the person financially
> > responsible.  If he refuses to pay, he loses his license, just like any 
>of
> > us who aren't diplomats.
> >
> > I have been on both sides of this, been a diplomat and am now a local at
>the
> > Embassy, but they don't get the breaks they used to.
> >
> > And the State Department requires you to provide proof of insurance when
>you
> > register a vehicle to get your diplomatic tags.
> >
> > Natasha
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 21:51:41 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: RE: Re:
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:49:49 -0400
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With the Croatian diplomat, if he didn't serve time in the US, he would
have
been sent home to serve time there.

	<DJY>  He was ukranian, not Croatian.  And, he was just recently
paroled in the Fatherland...


Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:05:19 2002
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From: "dannie davis" <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
To: lgranato@XXXXXX, rdtesq@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 01:54:10 
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and on that note........     anyone want to do a friday night ride??  putt 
around DC??         just a thought since it's supposed to rain all 
weekend????????


again just a thought
dan
crystal city


>From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
>To: "Roy D. Turner, Esq." <rdtesq@XXXXXX>, 
><dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:50:11 -0400
>
>
>
>   I used to advise fellow Virginia motorcyclists to join this list to keep 
>up with the local MC community and perhaps learn about planned group rides 
>(do you remember those?) and events such as Bike Night.  I am now hesitant 
>to do so.  Why don't some of you consider resolving your disputes privately 
>with each other.  If I am interested in hearing about someone's love life I 
>would rather read about it in the National Enquirer.  I thought topics on 
>this list were to pertain to our common love for motorcycles.  It seems 
>that flame wars have taken over.  As Rodney King once said:  Can't we all 
>just get along?  I guess the answer is "no".  Not a sermon, just a thought.
>
>   Roy: Please do not let this taint your view of the list.  I have no idea 
>who made that comment and why it was broadcast over the entire list.  My 
>personal life if private, but apparently someone wants to make light of a 
>situation that they shouldn't be involved in.
>
>   Laura


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:13:13 2002
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In a message dated 4/11/2002 10:08:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
danniedavis@XXXXXX writes:


> and on that note........     anyone want to do a friday night ride??  putt 
> around DC??         just a thought since it's supposed to rain all 
> weekend????????
> 
> 
> again just a thought
> dan
> 

Possibly.  Keep us posted if you get a group together.

Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 4/11/2002 10:08:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, danniedavis@XXXXXX writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">and on that note........ &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;anyone want to do a friday night ride?? &nbsp;putt 
<BR>around DC?? &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;just a thought since it's supposed to rain all 
<BR>weekend????????
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>again just a thought
<BR>dan
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>Possibly. &nbsp;Keep us posted if you get a group together.
<BR>
<BR>Scooter (2000 r/w/b YZF R6)</FONT></HTML>

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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:19:02 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 22:20:09 -0400
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At 09:16 PM 4/10/2002, hcaldwell wrote:

>Tu es stultior quam asinus!
>Oops my bad.

Now you've done it: "Iesu Domine, dona eis requiem -- whap!"
wouldn't be so bad with a helmet on.

-- Larry (whose favorite eighth grade insult was "Inflate mortuum elephantum.")







From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:36:34 2002
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	Will there be any titty bars involved? Just a thought
not a sermon.

Hugh

On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, dannie davis wrote:

> and on that note........     anyone want to do a friday night ride??  putt 
> around DC??         just a thought since it's supposed to rain all 
> weekend????????
> 
> 
> again just a thought
> dan
> crystal city
> 


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:49:58 2002
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Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:49:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
To: Pierre C <piffiffi@XXXXXX>, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <F225AjfUKWTa9tfmKsX00000c1c@hotmail.com>
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if i remember correctly, dc rates are so high because
comprehensive coverage is so costly.... very high theft
rates.

increase your comp. deductible, pull out all stops on
security, and insure with a company that discounts for
alarms, garages, etc.

or....move!  a mile or so, and i bet you're in a state.



--- Pierre C <piffiffi@XXXXXX> wrote:
> My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew
> insurance.  I currently 
> have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a
> cage, i am 36, and my 
> US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since
> 2001.  I tried all the 
> major companies: allstate, state farm, geico,
> progressive...  all of them.  
> No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in
> this list that has 
> insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this
> high?
> tia
> pierfrancesco
> vfr 98


__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:54:24 2002
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From: Tom Gimer <t_gimer@XXXXXX>
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i've tried the latin-->english translation sites for the
last couple posts.... no luck

end the suspense!!


--- hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:
> 
> > sorry.  pursuant to list rules i have slapped myself
> for
> > using latin....
> > 
> Tu es stultior quam asinus!
> Oops my bad. 
> 
> smack,
> Hugh



__________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 22:55:30 2002
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From: "Laura Granato" <lgranato@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: a public apology
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:05:56 -0400
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This apology goes out to the list for the manner I handled that annoying
thread tonight.   After an extremely rough day, it was not what I needed to
come home to.  I hope Mr. AOL would be polite enough to take his comments
off-list and directly to me as to avoid any misenterpretations of any posts
made here.  This type of stuff does not belong on the list...period.  I
posted a motorcycle-related topic and someone chose to make it completely
unrelated.

I should have just left it at that, but as Dysart said "my hot button was
hit."  In no way would I ever literally do harm to mister AOL, as stupid as
he or she may be.

LAG


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 23:02:02 2002
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From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
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To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: 
In-Reply-To: <20020412025423.29229.qmail@web14606.mail.yahoo.com>
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Tu es stultior quam asinus 
                        - you are dumber than an ass

No I don't speak latin but I do Google. Do a search on
latin insults for many more or just go here for a quick
primer
http://www.insults.net/html/swear/latin.html

Hugh

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Tom Gimer wrote:

> i've tried the latin-->english translation sites for the
> last couple posts.... no luck
> 
> end the suspense!!
> 
> 


From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 23:19:40 2002
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From: "dannie davis" <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
To: hcaldwell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 03:19:33 
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lol  well again  i don't care what we do  we can putt around  we can meet up 
somewhere    i don't care  but i'm not sure if others will enjoy the same 
whacky ways as others            LOL


but i'll check back tommorow around 3ish or 4ish and then wait around for 
replies              but it sounds like a plan to me


dan


>From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:36:14 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>	Will there be any titty bars involved? Just a thought
>not a sermon.
>
>Hugh
>
>On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, dannie davis wrote:
>
> > and on that note........     anyone want to do a friday night ride??  
>putt
> > around DC??         just a thought since it's supposed to rain all
> > weekend????????
> >
> >
> > again just a thought
> > dan
> > crystal city
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Thu Apr 11 23:57:00 2002
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From: "dannie davis" <danniedavis@XXXXXX>
To: hcaldwell@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
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LOL         uhhhhhhh  sure       why not       i don't mind


lol

dan


>From: hcaldwell <hcaldwell@XXXXXX>
>To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
>Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
>Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 22:36:14 -0400 (EDT)
>
>
>	Will there be any titty bars involved? Just a thought
>not a sermon.
>
>Hugh
>
>On Fri, 12 Apr 2002, dannie davis wrote:
>
> > and on that note........     anyone want to do a friday night ride??  
>putt
> > around DC??         just a thought since it's supposed to rain all
> > weekend????????
> >
> >
> > again just a thought
> > dan
> > crystal city
> >
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 00:02:52 2002
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From: "Razz Man" <razzsounds@XXXXXX>
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Petty Disputes
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:50:59 -0400
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I must admit that I've been hitting the delete key about 85% of the time. I 
agree with Roy. Maybe with the warmer weather the posts will turn to more MC 
related posts (for you fair weather riders). And PLEASE, let's not make this 
another flame war.

Razz

www.conflictedinterest.com
....my tag line...sorry Roy ;-)


>
>I used to advise fellow Virginia motorcyclists to join this list to keep up 
>with the local MC community and perhaps learn about planned group rides (do 
>you remember those?) and events such as Bike Night.  I am now hesitant to 
>do so.  Why don't some of you consider resolving your disputes privately 
>with each other.  If I am interested in hearing about someone's love life I 
>would rather read about it in the National Enquirer.  I thought topics on 
>this list were to pertain to our common love for motorcycles.  It seems 
>that flame wars have taken over.  As Rodney King once said:  Can't we all 
>just get along?  I guess the answer is "no".  Not a sermon, just a thought.
>
>Roy D. Turner, Esq.
>www.cfolaw.com


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 08:40:19 2002
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From: RichH@XXXXXX
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
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Joining the AMA will also get you a discount with most insurance companies.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:01 PM
To:	Pierre C; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP

Well there's always insurance fraud, today's topic du jour.  :)  Have you
tried working with an agent?  Taking the MSF ERC will usually earn you at
least a 10% discount depending on the company.  Every little bit helps.   I
have Markel.  You could try increasing your deductible.  I have mine set
pretty high.  What can I say.  Basically bike insurance in DC is a tough nut
if you have a newer bike and fragile bodywork.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP


> My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew insurance.  I currently
> have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a cage, i am 36, and my
> US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since 2001.  I tried all
the
> major companies: allstate, state farm, geico, progressive...  all of them.
> No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in this list that has
> insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this high?
> tia
> pierfrancesco
> vfr 98


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 08:47:02 2002
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From: "Meredith, Steve (Contr)" <SMeredith@XXXXXX>
To: "'dc-cycles@XXXXXX'" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Subject: Perforated Jacket, Part II
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Thanks for the many replies in response to my perf'ed jacket post.  Your
responses prompted me to include full-leather perf jackets in my research.
Thought I just let everyone know what I ended up buying.  After some web
searching, I found the Fieldsheer Air Speed all-leather perf jacket at New
Enough Leather on sale for $209 (list $239).   Other all-leather perf
jackets within my price target were more expensive (JR Sonic, $299; JR
Blaster Perf, $299, AVG Ion $265).  Vanson and First Gear, as nice as they
are, were way out of my price range.  Initially I was interested in the
combo mesh/leather JR Reactor jacket ($199), but since the Fieldsheer
all-leather jacket was comparably priced, I went with the all-leather.  Now
I'm ready to ride - more comfortably - in the infamous DC summer heat and
humidity.  Thanks again for everyone's input.

Steve
97 VFR
Warrenton, VA


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 08:51:29 2002
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Subject: RE: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
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Another thing you can do is go to Progressive's web page and play with all
the variables there and get an idea of what will lower your cost.  Be sure
to tell them you have an alarm and it's chained to something, they won't
check.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Rich Hall  
Sent:	Friday, April 12, 2002 8:40 AM
To:	dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	RE: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP

Joining the AMA will also get you a discount with most insurance companies.

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Paul Wilson [mailto:pawilson@XXXXXX] 
Sent:	Thursday, April 11, 2002 9:01 PM
To:	Pierre C; dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject:	Re: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP

Well there's always insurance fraud, today's topic du jour.  :)  Have you
tried working with an agent?  Taking the MSF ERC will usually earn you at
least a 10% discount depending on the company.  Every little bit helps.   I
have Markel.  You could try increasing your deductible.  I have mine set
pretty high.  What can I say.  Basically bike insurance in DC is a tough nut
if you have a newer bike and fragile bodywork.

Paul in DC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pierre C" <piffiffi@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 8:25 PM
Subject: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP


> My last posting didn't go through.  I am to renew insurance.  I currently
> have Markel.  They want over a grand.  I don't own a cage, i am 36, and my
> US driving record shows that i drive motorcycle since 2001.  I tried all
the
> major companies: allstate, state farm, geico, progressive...  all of them.
> No one was able to give me a quote.  Is there anyone in this list that has
> insurance in washington dc for a premium that's not this high?
> tia
> pierfrancesco
> vfr 98

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 09:19:54 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: <RichH@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <B44AFA05313BD411B64E00508B8B4BD5013DA0A2@SERVER1>
Subject: Re: INSURANCE IN DC? PLEASE HELP
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:19:59 -0400
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Except AMA's affinity program is with Progressive, which doesn't write
policies in DC and five other states, including so big ones, like NC and NJ,
if I recall.  Ditto with Honda Rider's Club.


Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: <RichH@XXXXXX>

> Joining the AMA will also get you a discount with most insurance
companies.
>



From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 09:37:13 2002
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From: "Natasha Louis" <tashalouis@XXXXXX>
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Re:
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 09:37:07 -0400
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Sorry, my mistake.  I should have looked it up.

Natasha


>From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
>To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
>Subject: RE: Re:
>Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:49:49 -0400
>
>
>With the Croatian diplomat, if he didn't serve time in the US, he would
>have
>been sent home to serve time there.
>
>	<DJY>  He was ukranian, not Croatian.  And, he was just recently
>paroled in the Fatherland...
>
>
>Dave Yates
>'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
>LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
>http://www.radix.net/~sdave/
>


_________________________________________________________________
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 10:22:42 2002
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From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>
To: cvkgpena@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Re: Motorcycle towing company (conclusion)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:22:36 -0400
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Thanks for all the help and advice offered. Finally found someone to tow my 
bike to the dealer. The tow was covered by my auto club so I didnM-^Rt ask the 
dealer (Coleman) to cover it. The first guy I talked to at the Service 
department told me they would be able to look at till Monday, I almost 
flipped out, but then the sales person who had originally sold me the bike 
came over and talked to another mechanic who is apparently the "Ducati Guy" 
and the mechanic promised to look at it and give me a call in a few hours.

As promised he did call me in a few hours and told me that the battery was 
dead. Turns out while parking the bike at work I had turned the key all the 
way to the left which I though locks the handle bars but what I had failed 
to notice was that doing this turns on the back light and leaves them on 
DOH!!  In all the bikes I have ever owned turning the key all the way to the 
left ALWAYS locked the handle bars, guess I should have paid closer 
attention. So it was human error as opposed to something actually being 
wrong with the bike, go figure.

Anyway I have my bike back now and it runs like a champ. Rides anyone?

Sanath


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 10:38:26 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: What is 'proper' rear rider sag?
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
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Moto-Content?? Perish the thought!

Ok, so I'm setting up the suspension on all three of my bikes: the
cb750, the race GS500e and the Triumph Trident/Speed3. On the Nighthawk
I've set rear sag to 15mm and by all accounts (and many miles logged)
this value is spot on.

The Race GS I think worked out to a rear sag of 20mm when I took
delivery and it seemed to do OK but I'll probably be mucking with it.

The Triumph stock shock had a sag of 44mm since the spring was totally
sacked. So I got a Hagon replacement. with 3mm of preload so far I'm at
35mm of sag and the rear-end is an improvement over what I had but it
still majorly sucks. So probably another 3 more mm of preload is in
order.

The confusion lies in what is the value I should be targeting? Ohlins
claims a 10mm-15mm of rear rider sag is correct. Other published
sources tend to agree with that but move the range to 15-20mm.
RaceTech's site for the T509 series Speed Triple says 32mm (but stroke
is only 60mm which makes me wonder).

So, can anyone help me understand what the right value is supposed to
be?

And another question.
The front of the Triumph has an unwelcome tendency to stand up hard in
bumpy turns. Is there a list of items I should check/adjust to address
this issue? I'm still tring to adjust to the Triumph since my NH
behaves so much more differently. Part of that is learning to give this
beast a forceful shove on the bars to get it off vertical and to keep a
heavy hand on it.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 10:45:05 2002
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From: "Paul Wilson" <pawilson@XXXXXX>
To: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>, <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
References: <LAW2-F50s4KWiGtXsL100001a8a@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Motorcycle towing company (conclusion)
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 10:45:50 -0400
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Glad it worked out for you in the end.  Ah, the infamous "park" position.
One of the dumber features on a bike, in my opinion.  My Interceptor has the
same thing.  I have to make sure the key is turned to "lock" and not "park."
You can take the key out in either position.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sanath S" <kewlgt@XXXXXX>

> Thanks for all the help and advice offered. Finally found someone to tow
my
> bike to the dealer. The tow was covered by my auto club ..
>
> As promised he did call me in a few hours and told me that the battery was
> dead. Turns out while parking the bike at work I had turned the key all
the
> way to the left which I though locks the handle bars but what I had failed
> to notice was that doing this turns on the back light and leaves them on
> DOH!!


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 10:59:35 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:00:52 -0400
To: SMeredith@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: Larry Larson <pltrgyst@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Perforated Jacket, Part II
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At 08:46 AM 4/12/2002, Steve wrote:
>....  After some web
>searching, I found the Fieldsheer Air Speed all-leather perf jacket at New
>Enough Leather on sale for $209 (list $239).

I bought that Fieldsheer for $220 new at Cycle Accessory Discounters in 
Gaithersburg about three weeks ago. It's a nice, solid jacket, and the 
perforations work really well. especially on the sleeves. I wore it on a 68 
deg day two weeks ago and was flat-out *cold*.

-- Larry








From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 11:08:35 2002
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Subject: RE: Perforated Jacket, Part II
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Steve,

I'm sure you'll be happy with your Fieldsheer Air Speed.  They make good stuff at a reasonable price.  Admittedly, not a Vanson but it will do the job.  I currently use a Fieldsheer 1-piece racing suit (can't remember the model) that I also got from New Enough on sale/closeout.  Very good value for the money.  And Paul and Holly are good people.

Chuck

Original Message: <SNIP>
-----------------

Thanks for the many replies in response to my perf'ed jacket post.  Your
responses prompted me to include full-leather perf jackets in my research.
Thought I just let everyone know what I ended up buying.  After some web
searching, I found the Fieldsheer Air Speed all-leather perf jacket at New
Enough Leather on sale for $209 (list $239).

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 11:19:50 2002
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Subject: RE: What is 'proper' rear rider sag?
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Matthew,

As a general rule, I always shoot for ~30mm rear sage (with the rider aboard) and ~35mm front sag (which is my current setup on my FZR).  These are "nominal" values and are usually "right" for suspensions on modern spportbikes.  I think most of what's been written about suspension usually cite sag figures that are pretty close to these.  My choice is based on all the different suspension stuff I've read plus input from my friend Gary Jaehne who's a racer and dP Safety track school instructor and someone who has conducted numerous suspension clinics and helped people set up their suspensions in Northern CA (many as part of Doc Wong's street riding clinics http://www.docwong.com/st-clinc/index.htm).

Chuck

Original Message: <SNIP>

The confusion lies in what is the value I should be targeting? Ohlins
claims a 10mm-15mm of rear rider sag is correct. Other published
sources tend to agree with that but move the range to 15-20mm.
RaceTech's site for the T509 series Speed Triple says 32mm (but stroke
is only 60mm which makes me wonder).

So, can anyone help me understand what the right value is supposed to
be?

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 11:49:33 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:49:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Weaver <chris_vtr@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: What is 'proper' rear rider sag?
To: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>, dccycles <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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Thank God! An actual motorcycle thread!

Try checking out
http://home.att.net/~gnemish/suspension.html

He says: "The correct sag for sportbikes on the street
should be 30-35 mm for the front and 25-30 mm on the
rear."

Also, you can probably address the Triumph's "standing
up" problem by looking at the troubleshooting guide at
the bottom of that page.

Chris Weaver


--- matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX> wrote:
> And another question.
> The front of the Triumph has an unwelcome tendency
> to stand up hard in
> bumpy turns. Is there a list of items I should
> check/adjust to address
> this issue? I'm still tring to adjust to the Triumph
> since my NH
> behaves so much more differently. Part of that is
> learning to give this
> beast a forceful shove on the bars to get it off
> vertical and to keep a
> heavy hand on it.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 12:15:23 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 12:15:00 EDT
Subject: Re: Motorcycle towing company (conclusion)
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In a message dated 4/12/2002 10:24:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
kewlgt@XXXXXX writes:

> In all the bikes I have ever owned turning the key all the way to the 
>  left ALWAYS locked the handle bars, 

You are hardly the first to have that problem. You should have seen all the 
fun I used to have before they standardized fuel petcocks. Honda and Yamaha 
petcocks were backwards to each other, reserve on one was off on the other,  
when I saw a new bike on the side of the road (common in that era) It was 
most often someone who had just switched brands. Embarrassed the hell out of 
them, entertained the hell out of me.


John Walters (Long John)
PenguinBiker@XXXXXX
Up near DC

Honda ST1100X Pan European
    (With all of the STs all of a sudden the Pan European 
      is now necessary {and I still like it.})
BMW R80RT 200,000+ miles
Honda 1976 CR250M  Motowhat racer

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 13:41:14 2002
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Subject: New Enough dot com (was RE: Perforated Jacket, Part II)
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At 11:08 AM 4/12/02 -0400, cvkgpena@XXXXXX wrote:
>Steve,
>
>I'm sure you'll be happy with your Fieldsheer Air Speed.  They make good
stuff at a reasonable price.  Admittedly, not a Vanson but it will do the
job.  I currently use a Fieldsheer 1-piece racing suit (can't remember the
model) that I also got from New Enough on sale/closeout.  Very good value
for the money.  And Paul and Holly are good people.
>
>Chuck

I have also been impressed with the service from Paul/Holly at
http://www.newenough.com/  They are great to work with and they have great
prices.  I've had to return 2 items to them and it was handled promptly
with quick refunds to my Amex.

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 13:54:07 2002
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Subject: Re: What is 'proper' rear rider sag?
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On the front - preload should be set such that the first 20% of the total front axle travel is used with bike & rider mass together.

On the rear - preload should be set such that the first 20%-25% of total rear axle travel is used with the bike & rider mass together.

Note, this is not to be confused with "static" sag, or bike ~without~ rider sag.

Also note, if you are using a excessively rising rate spring system (air springs for example are very progressive) you may have to increase your sag.  If you are using straight rate springs & do not have a high enough spring rate, you may need to decrease sag to avoid bottoming.

Oddly, these numbers are about the same for the dirt bike racers I'm told.

S  

Need a motorcycle related phone number or address?
Try http://www.his.com/harris/shops.htm

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 14:07:06 2002
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Subject: RE: New Enough dot com (was RE: Perforated Jacket, Part II)
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They will also send you 2 different sizes of the same item if you're unsure which is the proper size.  They'll initially charge you for both.  You try them on and keep the one that fits.  Send the other one back.  They credit back the second item.  Saves the time and hassle of having to return/exchange items that aren't the right size if you're inbetween the sizing.  But generally Paul is pretty good about being able to tell you what the right size is for a particular product based on your height, weight, and body type.

Original Message:
-----------------

I have also been impressed with the service from Paul/Holly at
http://www.newenough.com/  They are great to work with and they have great
prices.  I've had to return 2 items to them and it was handled promptly
with quick refunds to my Amex.

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From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 14:10:11 2002
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I used to have a bunch of different suspension pages bookmarked, but now that I more or less know what I'm doing with suspension don't.  The one Chris provided has pretty much the same info as you'll find anywhere else.  I know I have at home a really good insert from an old Performance Bikes that is all about how suspension works and set-up.

Original Message:
-----------------

Thank God! An actual motorcycle thread!

Try checking out
http://home.att.net/~gnemish/suspension.html

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Anybody been to one of the auctions Coleman's is going to hold tomorrow?
Will it be worth the time?  They're supposed to be having a huge sale too.
Guess that might bring their prices down to others.  

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 14:51:12 2002
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At 02:41 PM 4/12/2002, RichH@XXXXXX wrote:
>Anybody been to one of the auctions Coleman's is going to hold tomorrow?
>Will it be worth the time?  They're supposed to be having a huge sale too.
>Guess that might bring their prices down to others.

Went to one last summer.  Total waste of time.  Ton of bikes in varius 
states of disrepair.  Not a single one looked road worthy.


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 15:17:52 2002
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I just happened to be there last year (I think to pick up something from the parts department), i.e., didn't know there was an aution going on.  I would second Mike's assessment.  If you're looking for a ready-to-ride street steed at some unbelievably low price, fugghedabudit.  If you're looking for a project bike or something to turn into a track bike, you might be able to find something.  Seems more like a way to lure people inside to try to sweet talk them into buying a new m/c or overpaying for accessories (although you might find something on sale at a decent price in the latter department).  Free food I think.  But with rain forecasted for tomorrow, I doubt that there will be a huge crowd on 2 wheels in attendance.  Although on another m/c list that I eavesdrop on, it seems to have generated a lot of excitement.  Either they don't know anything about Coleman or just have cabin fever and need a good excuse to socialize with other riders.

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Troutman mike@XXXXXX
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:47:16 -0400
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
Subject: Re: Colemans Auction


At 02:41 PM 4/12/2002, RichH@XXXXXX wrote:
>Anybody been to one of the auctions Coleman's is going to hold tomorrow?
>Will it be worth the time?  They're supposed to be having a huge sale too.
>Guess that might bring their prices down to others.

Went to one last summer.  Total waste of time.  Ton of bikes in varius 
states of disrepair.  Not a single one looked road worthy.


___________________________________________

     Mike Troutman
         http://www.troutman.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 15:53:05 2002
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I went to the Coleman's Falls Church auction last year.  Very little in
ready-to-ride condition.  A friend of mine successfully bid on a Seca II for
not very much money.  A couple of sad looking VFRs, one of which had had a
run-in with Bambi.  Deer fur embedded in the fairings and between the front
tire and rim.  Some of the bikes were beyond fixing.  Strictly of the "parts
bike" category.  Accessories pricing was nothing special.  Free hot dogs and
drinks.

I went because a VFR that I had looked at in a private sale was up for
auction.  I was considering bidding on it, but the bids went too high.  It
needed about $800-1000 in new bodywork.

Paul in DC
95 VFR750F - 86 VF500F

----- Original Message -----
From: <RichH@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: Colemans Auction


> Anybody been to one of the auctions Coleman's is going to hold tomorrow?
> Will it be worth the time?  They're supposed to be having a huge sale too.
> Guess that might bring their prices down to others.
>


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 16:24:56 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 16:25:19 -0400
From: Lisa Goddard <lisagoddard@XXXXXX>
Subject: Aprilia Mille
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OK, whose Aprilia RSV Mille was parked at the door at the Tyson's Sport and
Health Club today?

Lisa Goddard
'95 VFR



From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 16:38:40 2002
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At 04:25 PM 4/12/02 -0400, you wrote:

>OK, whose Aprilia RSV Mille was parked at the door at the Tyson's Sport and
>Health Club today?
>
>Lisa Goddard
>'95 VFR

I was on my Busa today and saw one in MD, just north of the 270 spur.  I
was heading N, it was heading S.

-- Wayne - http://www.blueblackbusa.org/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 17:37:01 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:36:23 -0400
From: Robert Verde <c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX>
Subject: Idling question
To: "DC Cycles (E-mail)" <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
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I've had an odd situation crop up with my '83 Honda Interceptor, I suspect it
may be carb-related, but I thought I'd ask the listers.

Since the weather has warmed up, after running for a while, the idle rate rises.
Normally, over the winter, it idled around 900-1000 rpm; now, once it gets warm
or after a bit of highway driving, the idle at a standstill remains high, around
2k, for some minutes.  Sometimes it drops to what I consider "normal," other
times it continues while I'm riding (the engine doesn't throttle back easily).
The warm idle rate doesn't go any higher, or seem to fluctuate (except verrry
slowly).

Before I take off the tank/air cleaner and look to see if the carb floats are
sticking, are there other things I should be looking for?  I've cleaned the
carbs before, and it is a PITA on the V4, especially getting the carbs back in
the opposing boots, but I guess I can devote a weekend to it if that is the root
problem.

I have never had what I would call crisp throttle response on the bike, which
I'd written off to age and the early 80's technology, but now I'm wondering if I
should be looking for another set of carbs.

Thanks for all replies,

Robert Verde


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 17:51:10 2002
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From: "Dave Yates" <sdave@XXXXXX>
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Subject: RE: Idling question
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:49:21 -0400
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I've had an odd situation crop up with my '83 Honda Interceptor, I
suspect it
may be carb-related, but I thought I'd ask the listers.


Before I take off the tank/air cleaner and look to see if the carb
floats are
sticking, are there other things I should be looking for?  I've cleaned
the
carbs before, and it is a PITA on the V4, especially getting the carbs
back in
the opposing boots, but I guess I can devote a weekend to it if that is
the root
problem.


	<DJY>  You need a good car cleaning / soaking.  Possibly an overhaul.
I had similar woes on my old v45, and after an overhaul, it ran the
neighbor's cat that you use for paintball practice ;-)  You're right, it
sucks having to do carbs on a v4, but it would suck worse to be
relegated to a cage...

Good luck

Dave Yates
'90 ZX11 'Acceleratus Maximus'
LTT customized M96G EII 'Little Friend'
http://www.radix.net/~sdave/


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 17:55:46 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:52:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Idling question
To: c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX
Cc: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
From: "garcia oliver" <garicao@XXXXXX>
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First, check for air leaks.  If none, spray carb cleaner into carbs or
into airbox.  Pull carbs only as a last resort.

--garcia

c-Robert.Verde@XXXXXX writes:
>I've had an odd situation crop up with my '83 Honda Interceptor, I
>suspect it
>may be carb-related, but I thought I'd ask the listers.
>
>Since the weather has warmed up, after running for a while, the idle rate
>rises.
>Normally, over the winter, it idled around 900-1000 rpm; now, once it
>gets warm
>or after a bit of highway driving, the idle at a standstill remains high,
>around
>2k, for some minutes.


From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 20:14:33 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 17:14:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Todd Withrow <mtwithrow@XXXXXX>
Subject: Re: Need help - O/T
To: sdave@XXXXXX, dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <200204112240.g3BMe6Z20617@atlanta.pop3now.com>
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Sorry butI am working that weekend. If you need a
trailer, I have a 6.5 x 16 landscape trailer. You are
welcome to borrow it.

Todd W.

--- sdave@XXXXXX wrote:
> Apologies in advance, for the minimal moto content
> 
> I need help moving some bulky stuff
> 
> Wife & I are moving about 5 minutes from Mt. Vernon,
> scheduled for 
> April 27th.  It's only about 10 minutes from my
> current house, and I 
> don't need help moving house to house, just with
> some of the bulky 
> stuff that we have.  Since we're close, we should
> have the satellite 
> (complete with all channels I can get), TV & Stereo
> hooked up for 
> entertainment purposes, and we'll gladly provide
> food & beverages.  
>        
> If you have absolutely no interest in helping, but
> wouldn't mind the 
> food & beverages you're welcome as long as you bring
> something...
> 
> Firearms will be secured for the move, so the only
> condition is that 
> you not be bothered by our 2 Golden Retrievers...
> 
> Anyone that may be able to help please let me know
> off list
> 
> Thanks !
> Dave   
> 
> 
> --
> Pop3Now Personal, Get quick remote access to your
> email accounts!
> Sign Up Now!  Visit http://www.pop3now.com/personal
> 


=====
AIM: Inf DS

http://www.geocities.com/mtwithrow

-----------------------------------------------------------
Used to be that we "worldproofed" our children. Now society wants to childproof the world.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 21:01:30 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 18:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: bike handling and wrist pain
To: dc-cycles@XXXXXX
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.20020412135434.015bbc40@his.com>
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Thanks to various listers my Triumph is much better now but it's going
to take some getting used to the sinking feeling when I sit in the
saddle. Right now I can feel the shock topping out under bumpy braking
and I'll be fine tuning the rebound/compression adjustment as best I
can. The bike now actually turns without undue "it's not turning!!!"
sort of fear welling up inside like before.

I believe I've identified the cause and solution for the front bouncing
back in bumpy corners. Not enough rebound damping. The compression
stroke part seems fine but as soon as the force let's up a bit, wham,
the springs recover. I have 10w oil in there per RAceTech's suggestion
but I guess 15w or heavier may be needed. (it's possible my spring-rate
is too much but I'll try the oil first)

This is my first "big power sports bike" as it were and more so now
that it's in the Speed3 configuration of clip-on's and raised pegs.
I've read a lot about how riders experience pain and knumbness in hands
after even short rides and how elevated speeds did much to assuade
painful wrists. I was out for about 90 minutes in and around Burke,
Springfield, and Clifton and I was definately noticing some discomfort
in the right hand.

Reading the likes of Keith Code et. al. however, is it not the case
that proper riding technique calls for a feather light touch on the
bars except for the brief moments when applying pressure to initiate a
turn or when braking? To take the pressure of the wrists however,
necessitates a not insignificant amount of leg and lower back muscle to
support the upper body it seems. Do most riders simply not use these
muscles and instead just let their arms and wrists do the work? Is that
why stiff arms and stiff upper bodies are so prevalent and why being
relaxed on the bike is so hard to perfect? How come we don't hear about
elevated speeds and it's accompanying wind blast easing BACK pain. Is
that why so many ride so few miles in a year?

After all the completely and utterly off topic stuff of late I thought
I'd change the pace a bit. I wish I was going to VIR but my race bike
is still in too many pieces...

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 23:10:58 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 23:10:35 -0400
Subject: Help make racing/track days safer at Summit Point
From: David Cross <dave@XXXXXX>
To: <dc-cycles@XXXXXX>
Message-ID: <B8DD19EB.44C8%dave@davecross.com>
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Having crashed in Turn 4 myself this definitely is a good cause. I am
sending in my check.

Dave


-----------------------

Racers to 'Move the Mountain Safety Project' at Summit Point Raceway and we
need you!

Things are changing at Summit Point Raceway in wild and wonderful West
Virginia. Over the winter, some extra concrete walls were erected in front
of embankments to keep out-of-control cars contained within the racetrack
and not vaulting through or over spectator fences. Stacks of tires bolted
together are placed in front of these walls. These walls and tirestacks have
a negative effect on any vehicle or human that runs into them at speed.
Racing motorcycles have been broken in half on impact with these immovable
barriers. Kart racers have the same problem. For motorcycle racers to hit
these objects, it is a certain trip to the hospital or even worse. SCCA
racers hate to hit anything, too. So, what is the solution?

The 'Move the Mountain Safety Project' at Summit Point Raceway,
www.mtm.nbinteractive.com ,has been established by racers for racers in
co-operation with Summit Point Raceway management and all users of the
track.

The big problem area is 'the chute' between turns 4 and 5 on racers' left.
Racers fly down the chute at over 100 mph and have to turn right in the
off-camber turn 4 and then jump on the brakes to set up for left hand turn
5. On the racers' left is an earthen and rock embankment just 30 feet from
the track. With the concrete wall and tire stacks in front of the
embankment, there is not enough room to save it if you leave the racetrack
at 100 mph. Racing technology and speed increases every year and we need to
come up with safety solutions to keep our sport healthy and in good hands.
As racers, we need to be pro-active for our own safety. Roger Lyle, former
motorcycle racer, former President of the Mid-Atlantic Roadracing Club
(MARRC) for 18 years, and also current National Safety Director for Formula
USA Motorcycle Roadracing, arranged a meeting with Mr. Bill Scott, owner of
SPR, and national motorcycle champions David Yaakov of CAD Racing and Greg
Harrison of WGH Excavation Inc., and team owner of Loudoun Motorsports
Racing, and laid out the options available.

The ideal solution would be to have ample run-off room, move the embankment
back as far as possible, install a pea gravel trap to slow off-track
vehicles, and put the wall and tire stacks 80 to 100 feet back up against
the remaining embankment. There still may be a need to purchase some foam
safety barriers to put in front of the tire stacks to keep cycles and karts
from impacting the hard stacked tires. These foam barriers can be used by
karts and cycles on their weekends. Area to be excavated is roughly 300 feet
long by 100 feet wide. Depending on the amount of rock to be removed or
blasted these dimensions could be smaller.

The 'Move the Mountain Safety Project' has been presented to the board of
directors for MARRC, WKC, and SCCA. Each group's suggestions and needs are
being considered and incorporated in the master plan to benefit all users of
Summit Point Raceway. WERA, CCS, F-USA, NESBA, and Team Pro-Motion have been
contacted too.

So, how do you get involved? The 'Move the Mountain Safety Project' needs
money. We hope to raise $50,000 to cover the excavation costs and purchase
some foam safety barriers for the cycles and karts. Mr. Bill Scott has
pledged that he will match us dollar for dollar. Any leftover money will be
put into other safety improvements for Summit Point Raceway that will
benefit everybody who visits Summit Point. All contributors will be listed
on the MOVE the MOUNTAIN website at www.mtm.nbinteractive.com. Check out
this site for excavation updates and notes from the enthusiasts who support
this project. Thanks to Ryan Chapin of Nuts and Bolts Interactive at
www.nbracesites.com for providing this website for Move the Mountain Safety
Project. Thanks to everybody who has gotten involved already.

Make checks payable to Move the Mountain.
Donations to the fund can be sent to:
Move the Mountain
4413 Sigsbee Road
Wheaton, MD 20906

For more information, call Roger Lyle at 301-933-2599 or
www.mtm.nbinteractive.com.  Your contribution will definitely make racing at
Summit Point safer and more fun for all. With your support, we can ensure
the future of great road racing at Summit Point Raceway. After all, "Summit
Point is Road Racing!"









From dc-cycles-request Fri Apr 12 23:57:10 2002
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Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 20:57:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: matthew patton <pattonme@XXXXXX>
Subject: Of suspension setup and wrist pain
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This didn't seem to go thru the first time so I'm trying again.

Thanks to various listers my Triumph is much better now but it's going
to take some getting used to the sinking feeling when I sit in the
saddle. Right now I can feel the shock topping out under bumpy braking
and I'll be fine tuning the rebound/compression adjustment as best I
can. The bike now actually turns without undue "it's not turning!!!"
sort of fear welling up inside like before.

I believe I've identified the cause and solution for the front bouncing
back in bumpy corners. Not enough rebound damping. The compression
stroke part seems fine but as soon as the force let's up a bit, wham,
the springs recover. I have 10w oil in there per RAceTech's suggestion
but I guess 15w or heavier may be needed. (it's possible my spring-rate
is too much but I'll try the oil first)

This is my first "big power sports bike" as it were and more so now
that it's in the Speed3 configuration of clip-on's and raised pegs.
I've read a lot about how riders experience pain and knumbness in hands
after even short rides and how elevated